WISHMASTER 2: EVIL NEVER DIES

This week Mike and Devaughn are joined by guest Matt Konopka (Killer Horror Critic) for a boys night on the town. Along with our fun-loving, wish-granting Djinn, we're hitting our two favorite hotspots the casino, and jail! Join us for a spirited discussion on how this straight to video sequel might be responsible for the downfall of American democracy, why the Djinn should just follow every good grandma's plan of "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar," and how Mike discovered that goth/punk art thieves that are deadly with a pistol are the kind of lady that leave him weak in the knees.

Episode Transcript

(00:31):
None. Hey there everyone, and welcome
to the pod and the pendulum. We are the show that covers all
of the franchises one movie and one episode at a time.
As always, I'm your host, Mike Snoonian, and I am here to make
even more wishes this week with Witch Master 2.

(00:54):
Evil never dies. What would happen if you took
this movie and Halloween Kills and they just had to go head to
head? Like, would evil not die or
would evil die tonight? Maybe we'll ask that later on.
Anyway, this is the 1999 direct to television sequel to the 1997
film Wishmaster. I kind of put this little

(01:17):
anecdote down here before we introduce the Co hosts and our
guests that when I was at high school, I went to this dance and
I remember getting super excitedto get like another girl's phone
number and getting in my like best friend at the time's car to
go home. And I was like, I met a girl.
I was super happy. I'm like 1314 years old and my

(01:39):
friend's dad is like, did you rub a lamp or something?
And I don't know. That's the kind of energy I want
to bring to this week's episode to skip Bowen.
Let's crush some hope and dreamstype of energy with this like
really fun direct to video movie.
So I am not alone, like I said before we have sitting in the Co

(02:00):
host chair from the Spectre Cinema Club and Tainted Love
podcast, Mr. Devon Taylor. Devon, how are we?
I claim which is that I am owed A5 star review on Apple
Podcasts. Not the show, just Devon Rev
Rate Devon Taylor. My impression?

(02:22):
Marginally better. Sorry Mike, that was awful.
But I love you still. Devon, did you have a friend
who's like parents were Dicks toyou growing up Like I did?
Like the kind of parents that are like, you know, we know
you're young and impressionable,but we're going to be Dicks
anyway. Like you have any friends,
parents like that? And now even better, I'm from

(02:43):
Missouri so I just had parents that were low key racist
instead. Fair enough.
So yes, they did hate. So yes, they did hate me
actually. Yeah, good.
Points You got to love Missouri.Well, we have someone sitting in
the special guest chair today joining us for the first time.
He is the founder of the site Killer Horror Critic.

(03:03):
He has By Lines and Arrow Video,Dread, Central Mandre, Vellum
and many more. Let's welcome for the first time
special guest Matt Konopka. Matt, how are we?
Hey guys, I'm good. Thank you for granting my wish.
We're going to be doing also a terrible impression.
I want to point well, point out something.

(03:24):
We are not a video podcast, but Matt, you look like you would
win like second place in the like Dave Batista look alike.
Oh really? Stay.
Fair. Like I'm like, it's our first
celebrity Batista. And then I get excited and I'm
like, God, just. It's not.
Yeah. No, I just censored that last
week. No, it's very hot here because I

(03:47):
have to turn off the air conditionings for these.
So yeah, I just didn't want to sweat during this.
That's all right. I just sweat, naturally.
It's totally fine. Yeah.
Matt, I'll pose the same question I posed at Yvonne.
Did you have any friends whose parents are, like, the worst?
Just absolute. I mean, I don't want to say the

(04:10):
worst, but my, my best friend's parents growing up, his dad was
not like super fond of me because you wouldn't, you
wouldn't know it to talk to me now, but I had a very like high
pitched voice when I was a kid and, and I and so and I would
like scream and make a ton of noise.
And there, there was one, there was one night where I was

(04:32):
sleeping over and my friend's dad just like got really mad at
how much noise I was making and told me that I had to go home.
And, you know, he meant that I had to go home as soon as I got
up in the morning. But I took it as like, I had to
go home then. So I ended up walking home at
like 3 in the morning. Jesus.

(04:55):
That's fantastic. And and when he woke up the next
day, my parents were getting calls of like did Bat, did Mac
come home? Like we don't know where he is.
Oh man, that's great. Like we lost your child at our
sleepover, which is not what we're looking.
For Yeah, but no, he he was a good guy.
He could just like like a typical Midwest dad could be
kind of like intimidating when he got upset.

(05:17):
So got it. Well what we are looking for
Matt, are your initial thoughts as our special guest on Witch
Master 2. Like overall, are you a fan of
the series? Like when did you first watch
this entry? Because this is the one we put
out the open call. You're like, can I hop into Wish
Master 2? So what is it about this movie?

(05:38):
Well, so I I do really like the first wish master.
I just think it's a great showcase of like KMB special
effects, you know, and it's kindof it kind of came at this time
where it was like The Expendables for horror in a
sense, because you just you packed in so many genre
celebrities of the time like Robert Anglin, Kane Hotter, Tony

(05:59):
Todd, Rest in Peace, you know, just so many.
And so I'm a big fan of the original.
And then the second, well, well,I would say it's quite a big
step down from the first. It's still fun and entertaining.
You know, you still have some pretty good effects and Andrew
Duvall just seems like he's having the time of his life

(06:21):
playing this character. You know, like, I love his kind
of just like shit eating grin the entire time that he has.
And I was also listening to the commentary today and just being
reminded of the fact that he just does not blink once in the
entire movie. So I thought it was interesting.
And even at times where he's on camera for like 2 to 3 minutes,

(06:41):
that's. Funny, I didn't even notice
that, but you're totally right. Yeah.
Frozen grin, which we'll discuss.
Which which is so funny too, when you consider the fact that,
like, his portrayal there is kind of like the Jinn's sort of
view of like that, that is the Jinn trying to impersonate a
human being. You know, like he's trying.

(07:03):
Like that's him trying to fit inis to be this like shitting in
grin, never blinking fucking weirdo.
So I just kind of love that about it.
And you know, and we'll get intothe things that I don't like as
much, namely Morgana's arc. And and it's some of that stuff,
but I just think it's a really fun movie.
I think I think setting it in the prison in Vegas is basically

(07:26):
perfect for Witch master. And so I guess to answer your
question, I really, I, I really enjoy these first two, 3 and 4
not so much. That's what I've heard.
I heard I'm in for a real treat.Oh, you're, you're having a
first time coming up, huh? These are all first timers for
me. Yeah, let me, let me just

(07:47):
prepare you. You're going to miss Devoff
quite a bit in this role becausehe is not in three and four and
you feel it. We've had a string of movies
this year where I'm like, this is the worst movie we've ever
covered. And you just, when you think
you've descended, you've descended into that like deepest
circle of hell, you get like a wrong turn 5.

(08:08):
And it's just like my. Like just because I love what,
because I love watching Mike squirm.
I'm like rooting for this one tolike take the cake for three to
be the new worst movie we've ever covered on the podcast.
I'm really hoping I'm I'm excited to see your reaction
because but. Where do they hurt you in a past

(08:32):
life or that's what you want from, you know, I don't
understand. Hey, you got to find pockets of
joy where you can, and that's why.
Hurting me brings you a pocket of joy.
Why have? Why do you think I've been on
here for like 3 years now? Yes, that's exactly why Mike.
Last week you're like, you know,you kind of remind me of the
homeless dude. And no, I said, you reminded me

(08:54):
of the actor, not the homeless man you said that you're saying
like. Almost exclusive homeless
people. And I'm like, what the fuck?
So what is going on Devon? What about yourself?
Like what is it you've mentioned?
Like you're here for the Jinn with the series.
So what are your initial thoughts on this on the sequel

(09:15):
here? Yeah, similar to Matt, like I
love the jinn that he is, you know, this otherworldly being
and his just interpretation, like fascination with humans,
like the way that he interacts. I love just like how his brain
works. He goes, OK, where am I going to
find the greediest people? Let me get myself thrown in
prison. OK.

(09:35):
I was like, all right, I see you, Jen.
Like he's he's making economicalmoves because it makes sense.
Like there's a lot of greedy people in prison that would sell
their soul away, You know, for awish.
I was like, that's great. I was like big brain sequel
thinking. I was like, love that.
So many smokes in prison. Like so exactly.
And so many cigarettes for him. He he was in heaven.

(09:58):
I mean, I know we'll get to a little bit later to how there is
kind of there could have been 2 movies here like Gin could Gin
in prison could have been one movie.
Gin in Vegas could have been another movie.
But. But yeah, it's, it's still very
fun. Yeah.
Divov is very fun here. Like he's getting, he's a little
bit looser. He gets to be a little bit more

(10:19):
of a Rascal on this one. He's a little extra cheeky,
quite literally, but and and andwhich is funny because like, he
doesn't need to be Andrew Divov.That's what I love about the
Jin. He he just likes Andrew Divov's
face. Like essentially for him to be
Divov in the second movie, there's no narrative reason for

(10:42):
him to be Demoris, but he he just likes that face.
And I'm like, yeah, that's a good face.
That's a good one for you, Jin. So yeah, but you know, I think
they are still even though I think the I think the decrease
the step down comes in mainly the the primary protagonist

(11:02):
characters and their acting and things like that.
But this movie still gives you really great effects works in
certain scenes. It still gives you the, again,
the the kind of mischievous humor that the first film
brought. Like there's still a lot of
things like I, I'd, I'd say likethe, the, the spirit is still

(11:24):
there between this and the first, just not quite as
polished as the first movie is. But but yeah, so it's, it's
still a really fun ride. And again, I think it's just a
nice logical step in where the the Gin would go.
And I love that this movie cements that the Gin gave
himself the title of Wishmaster as his prison nickname.

(11:46):
That's canonical for this series.
And again, I love the Gin for that.
Like he's such a, he's just sucha he's so random, this guy so
random. He's he's a character, yeah.
He's a bit mischievous. I agree with both of you.
Like this is definitely in termsof the overall quality of the
first movie, Like it is a step down.

(12:06):
Like you, that first movie, likeyou had mentioned, Matt, it's
kind of a who's who of horror between like Wes Craven
executive producing, Bob Kurtzman, like stepping into the
director's chair, K&B doing likegreat special effects.
And then you have Robert Anglin,Kane Hotter, Tony Todd, Reggie

(12:27):
Bannister, Ted Ramey, Angus Scrim doing voice over.
Like all of these who's who of, you know, horror movies at
different levels, all of them like making cameo or, you know,
supporting appearances. So you get like a real like wow,

(12:48):
like a pretty like for AB movie,something that's a little bit
better than most. And this one is you feel like
it's straining with the direct video.
Like the settings are a lot of fun, but they're a bit skimpy.
Like there's just not a lot you can do there.
The gin is in human form way more than monster form, which I
think is actually a plus in thismovie.

(13:11):
Despite like the budget being, you know, obviously lower and
being able to really tell, it's still a lot of fun.
It fun because it's just it's soridiculous.
It's like such a movie where like we have like an art heist
and then a prison sequence and then let's end things in a
casino and let's seduce priests.And it's just so like, what are

(13:34):
we doing here? Like that kind of energy where
you almost feel like Jack's shoulder was just like, people
were suggesting things to him and he's like, sure, why not?
I'll write that in. Like, who gives a shit?
And. Well, he definitely seems to
take like sort of a who gives a shit kind of attitude towards
it, which is what I like about it.

(13:55):
Because, you know, it's really funny to listen to him talk
about Wishmaster 2 because he was approached for the first one
to direct and he turned it down because he said he thought the
script was terrible. Which I just think is like, you
know, fun irony compared to whathe ended up what he ended up
writing for Part 2. I mean he is like as as I as I

(14:18):
had seen you say in your notes like he is a notorious shit
talker. Oh my God, yeah, he is.
And and so, yeah. And so it just feels like for
this entire film, you know, I almost got the sense of he
didn't even really want to do this one, even after they said
that he could write the script. But, you know, he mentions like,
oh, it was a slow time for me. So it just sort of feels like he

(14:40):
just did it. Because one of the last things I
think he does one other feature film he does like Inaccurate in
2001. He does a couple more like
television episodes that he directs.
And that was like 2004. But he's 60 by then.
I mean, he's still alive. He's 80 years old as of this

(15:01):
year in June. So he's kind of slowing down
anyway. But it's just, yeah, it's just
ironic. Like we'll talk a little bit
about him in a moment. It is funny that they didn't
ask. Like I think about Wrong Turn to
when I think about this movie inthat this movie just missed out
on the DVD boom by a few years. Like it's 99.

(15:26):
So DVDs are out. Like I own, I know I own like a
player by this point because I worked in electronics, but it
wasn't like everybody, everybodywas rushing out to get discs.
Like it was still a pretty big novelty.
And so it's like comes out on television as opposed to like

(15:47):
video cassette or DVD first. But like Wrong Turn to it's like
mid 2000s. They know there's a huge market
for like DVDs and they're like great.
We'll give it a little bit of money, not as much as the first.
We'll get a young and upcoming director.
We'll have a lot of fun with it.And you know, if you listen to
our rankings episode spoiler, like we rated wrong Turn 2 as

(16:09):
the best of the whole series. And this one, it's like almost
like, well, I, I guess we'll make one like we'll make a few
bucks on it. Like you feel that here.
Well. This one feels like because
again, like the first movie is like so much of this, like big
roll out for horrors, next big icon, the gin and and then it

(16:30):
didn't quite happen. So the second movie is like, all
right, let's just Dick around onthis one.
Like who's got ideas? You know, like, and people just
started being like prison Vegas and he's like, yes, yes, you
know, you know, like let's do it.
So like that's kind of the attitude with this one where the
first one they are really tryingto trying really hard to like
prop up the the gin and everything and still like kind

(16:52):
of make him like, oh, he's sinister, he's devious and like,
and this they're just like, Nah,this guy's here for shits and
gigs and like we're we're going to fuck around.
And like that's kind of more theagain, this one feels just feels
a little bit more loose the energy.
Kind of feel like he should havebeen thrown in prison.
It should have been a carryover from the first film where it's

(17:13):
like, hey, there's that middle-aged dude who hangs
around like girls basketball games way too much and he
doesn't have a kid and no one's on his team.
Like that should have been why he was sent to prison for like
being a weird perv that's not allowed near schools.
Like that would have been that would have been amazing if they
did that. Matt, you just mentioned like

(17:33):
shoulder getting offered to direct the first one and turning
it down. Like both Kurtzman and Peter
Aikens, the writer of the first film.
Like they're they're surprised to not be act asked back, but
they're not like you figure likePeter Aikens is like look, I
have 4 unused Hellraiser scripts.
I can just, you know, control F for find replace Pinhead with

(17:56):
gin and I will have you like a new script by Tuesday at 9:00
AM. Like I got your back.
But they did not call on him. Shoulder comes on board and he's
like, well, I didn't think the first one was any good.
Which is also what he said aboutA Nightmare on Elm Street.
Which is crazy, yeah. Yeah, so the second time he's

(18:17):
coming in after Wes Craven, who executive produces the first
film and is pretty hands on, like with the scripting process.
He's like, yeah, what a be Wes Craven.
Like what a piece of shit. Let me show you how it's done.
Step aside, Wes. This is Jack Shoulder time.
Yeah. Why didn't Hellraiser go to
prison? Right, that would be perfect. 10

(18:41):
point that like that would that would make so much sense.
I mean, there's been like 12 fucking movies and they couldn't
go to prison once. So it's.
So yeah, this is definitely justa.
Watching those movies feels likea jail sentence.
So you figure why? Why wouldn't they do it?

(19:01):
So shoulders like, I want to saylike breakout film, it's 1980
twos alone in the dark, which I kind of want to say is a
prestige slasher in that like compared to what you get at the
time, like Jack Palace is in like future Oscar winner Jack
Palace. Donald Pleasance is on board.
It's a little bit more highbrow.It it it's a pretty fun movie.

(19:24):
It involves like a bunch of killers breaking out of a a
mental asylum and then wreaking havoc.
And what's ironic is it's comes out in 82 and there's a mass
killer and a goalie mask for part of it.
In a year later, you get Friday the 13th with Jason in a hockey
mask and you're like, well, that's a coincidence.

(19:45):
And then in 87 he directs the Hidden, which is like an entity
that jumps from body to body as a killer.
And then in 1993 you get Jason Goes to Hell, which involves
Jason as an entity jumping from body to body and continuing so.
It's almost like if Jack Shoulder has any beef, it
shouldn't be with Wes Craven, but with like, Sean Right and

(20:09):
Franklin Cuso Junior. Giving him some ammo now.
I I never thought of that, but you were absolutely right.
Jack Shoulder, if you're listening, this is your.
This is your time. But this is your moment.
Actually, Wes is gone. It doesn't really matter at that
point. But I mean, very interesting.
I mean, I think Nightmare on ElmStreet too definitely deserves

(20:32):
more credit than it's obvious. I think it's really fantastic.
So I mean, if we're gonna go with the more superior sequels
that he's done, I really like what he did with Elm Street too,
because I think I think that is Freddie at his scariest, if I'm
gonna say anything about the franchise in in that one.
No, yeah, I'm, I'm part of the group that thinks Nightmare 2 is

(20:53):
actually pretty scary like that.That was the last scary version
of that franchise. Well, except for seven.
I think 7 has some good stuff init but but no, he's terrifying
in that. It was the first one I watched.
I remember seeing it like it wason cable and my friends and I
were watching it and hiding behind the couch for parts of it
and like peeking around the corner because like I found it

(21:16):
so scary at points and it still works.
And it's weird because I would say like this one, there's a lot
of queer things and this as well, but Shoulder kind of
imbues them with a lot of like also homophobia.
So it's very odd how he and it'sfascinating when you go back and
watch any of the like documentaries on Elm Street 2 or

(21:37):
anyone, like so many of them arelike, we had no idea we were
making something this gay, like absolutely.
And and others are like, come on, how did you not like how did
you you saw what we were doing here.
Look at the props we were using in the dance.
But it's odd that like, there's like these two sides of Jack's
shoulder that seem to be at war with one another in like, these

(21:59):
two movies, so. He's just just.
Figuring it out, you know he. He also has the name of a like
of a like mob enforcer. You'll want me to send Jack
Shoulder over to you. That's.
It yeah, whoopsie, whoopsie. So it's this one.
We're moving on. Like, Tam, was it Tammy Lauren

(22:22):
who played Alex in the first movie?
I figure I think that's it. Yeah, we'll fix it in post.
But it's funny. She's not ass back.
And we talked about this in the first episode where when you
watch, like all the interviews with like, Divov, he's like
talks about the whole process and how he gets into character.

(22:44):
And Miss Laurent is like, it wasa movie I did.
I'm actually not a huge fan of horror.
And when I do these conventions,I just hope there are no
weirdos, which I thought was like, I love that energy.
I kind of love that. She's like, it was a paycheck.
What do you want? So Holly Fields comes on as
Morgana, and I would say like, you don't see a lot of her on

(23:06):
screen in other roles, but she'sa very talented voice actor.
Like she's done, she's. The video game version of Fiona
for Shrek for the Shrek series. The Shrek video game series.
She is Fiona. And she's also in a lot of the
Star Wars video games like the Knights of the Old Republic
video games, which are excellent, like one of the best

(23:28):
role-playing games ever. So she's had like a very long
career and thriving career whereshe's done this.
But I would say maybe the personof most note Tony Tiny Liston.
Yeah, tiny. You know it's.
Barred. As much as I love Divov, like I

(23:49):
would have taken like the second-half of the movie Tiny
playing the gin. Like the gin inside of Tony.
Yeah, yeah, I. Think that would have been
really fun for, like, the second-half of the movie.
But, I mean, you know, still, still love to have off.
But like that, like, because we get one scene of, of Tiny being
the gin when he does his little prison escape.

(24:10):
And it was really fun. And like, I think that could
have been a whole fun thing, yeah.
That would have been great. He just loves DeVos face too
much I guess. Agreed.
And it's a much different vibe when you have like tiny listing
in your face, like with those 20inch pythons going like make

(24:30):
your wish. It's like, yes, Sir, there's
something a bit more intimidating at that point.
It's so. I will make a wish, I will wish
whatever you want. Yeah, you tell me what you want
me to wish, Sir. Just write it down.
How do you want me to say it? And I just please don't hurt me
or my family is all I ask. So where do you want to start

(24:53):
with this? Where do you guys want to start
with our talk? Matt, what is your first?
What is your, what do you want to talk?
I think we all have the same note on on Holly fields in this.
Should we start there? Sure, Yeah, we can start there.
I so I, I like her character in this for the most part, you

(25:14):
know, like I, I like what we're what we start with this kind of,
you know, like goth, punk bank robber.
You know, she's got all that going on for her And, and I like
her performance for the most part.
You know, I think it fits the film.
And then it just does this very like puritanical kind of

(25:38):
bullshit where it's like, you know, that that to me just felt
so late 90s in the sense where she goes on this redemption arc
of which I, I don't mind the redemption arc.
You know, I, I think, I think like having a character kind of
going through this difficulty ofhaving killed someone and, you
know, feeling the guilt over that.

(25:58):
Like all of that's great. And it adds a good depth to her.
But I think that the concept of well, she's redeemed because she
took out her piercings and is wearing white instead of black
now like that, that like she gets Ally sheeted basically from
the Paris Club and like that kind of stuff always just pisses

(26:19):
me off. It's really.
Bad like because she is really cool to kind of start off with
and like has like a fun energy to her.
And then, yeah, like, I love howall it takes to purify herself
is, oh, you cut your pinky off and then you go confess your
sins and then, Nope, you're goodnow.
Which is, yeah, it's all really weird.

(26:40):
And then even and then, like thereligious stuff, then they take
even further, putting the pastorguy on the cross later.
Like, I mean, it's it's really weird.
But like, yeah, unfortunately, Morgana, I mean like she won
crazy at the beginning. Like an art heist should not
result in the death of like 5 people.

(27:00):
Like imagine shooting, imagine shooting a cop over a painting
and then like getting death sentenced apparently.
Like what are you doing here? So one terrible art thieves,
this group here. I mean she like they cut the
painting out of the you ruined it.
What are you doing? Right, it's not worth anything

(27:21):
now. So she's a terrible art thief
and they. Just smash the glass.
Like if you've seen any movie where there's an art heist, like
even the great Muppet caper I believe like when Charles Grodin
goes to rob the huge gem, it's like if you break the glass the
alarms will go off. Like, have you never seen a
movie? Right.

(27:41):
Like what's that Pierce Brosnan movie where he's an art thief?
Like how did you not watch that and know?
This Thomas Crown affair is that.
Yes, yes, that's what I think. I just pulled that one right out
of my ass to be quite honest, just don't know how.
That was perfect. Well, just fun.
Quick note. I thought during the commentary,

(28:02):
I thought it was kind of funny because they make a note of
like, we're all saying she's such a terrible art thief.
But they point out like, well, she must be doing pretty OK
because she's got this loft in Los Angeles, which, you know, if
anyone knows, it's like, not that cheap.
You know what? It's a nice looking place.
Yeah, to be fair, it's the 90s and I've said this before, the

(28:22):
90s or a time when like you could have a super low paying
job and like it's a you could just like I'm just going to wash
dishes 20 hours a week and stillmaybe live with like one other
roommate in a decent place and like just pursue your hobbies,
whether that's art, thieving or obviously like she likes to go

(28:43):
to the gun club because she's pretty good with her aim, even
under pressure. Like I sent the note to Devon
and the rest of the Co hosts. Like when I'm watching this, I'm
like didn't know this, but goth women that are deadly with a
pistol and are art thieves Totally my bag.
Like so into it. Just let me call you mommy and I

(29:06):
am, I am there like. I mean, hey, you, you even even
the gin was down, down battle a little bit from Morgano, but
that one line is like he's like,oh, yeah.
I I, I wanting that sweet little, that cute little last
myself. I was just like, okay, I was
like, she's got everybody. She's got the pastor questioning

(29:28):
his faith. She's got the gin all randied
up. Like I mean more guys got going
on until she is then put in the worst dress and terrible shoes
and even makes a her. Her haircut was already bad to
start off with but she was making it work and then she made
it work. No and then she made it work.
She was working it to begin withand then when she purified

(29:49):
herself, made it worse. I mean, I'm, I'm all for the
hair originally. It's it's not great, but it's
not terrible. But but no, but like, even the
film gets it, you know, I mean, she's constantly like, not this
is necessarily a good thing, butit's like she's constantly
objectified by the camera. You know, we have all these
scenes of of her in like her, her underwear, sleeping in bed
and everything, which was not a thing in the original, if I

(30:12):
remember correctly. So it's like, you know, the film
gets it, and then it's just like, but what if we made her?
Boring. Yeah.
Well, see, that's, well, that's Jack Shoulder being like and
Jack Shoulder's like. They're not going to question
this being the gay one this time.
Look at this hot lady. Let me show you this hot lady
that I love. Don't question me.

(30:33):
And I love when, like, she seduces her best friend, the
priest, and he's like, I don't think this is how you get into
heaven. And she's like, don't be so
sure. And I'm like, damn, that's a
hotline. Like.
Hell yeah. SO11 Really funny thing about
her and that seduction scene too, is she's got the classic
late 90s well. Would carry over into the early

(30:56):
2000s. The thong above the jeans, like
coming out, that's back now people that that recently people
are doing that again. So it was kind of funny to see
that. Way to the East Coast, yet it is
not made out. It's it's happening out here.
That's not the the thongs are out again.
And but yeah, I love like his reaction because like they're

(31:19):
like talking about like, Oh yeah, I can just I'll defeat the
gym by doing this ritual. And homie pastor guy goes, he's
like, well, that only works if you're pure.
And like gives her just like thelike just the slut shamiest look
I've ever seen in my life. I was like fuck you man.
Yeah, like what a Dick and. Then he sleeps with her and then

(31:39):
he's like, but you know, he's like doing the math in his head.
He's like, all right, as a priest, how many rosaries and
our fathers and confession do I have to do if I do the nasty?
And he's like, is it worth it? And I would say he airs in the
right side. He's like he's.
Like Morgana, God gave us bonersfor a reason.

(32:00):
I must. I must.
So it's great. But I like Morgana.
I like that. Like she's a bit more.
She's like a little bit more clever than I think you're
initially meant to lead on. Like when she at the end of the
film, when she has to confront the gin, she's much better at

(32:22):
like how she's like, wording herwishes.
So she's trying like a lot of different fake outs and things.
Like she's very careful in what she says in order to not let the
mayhem spread. And she's clearly done her
homework. And obviously the gin has as
well. Like the gin has gone back and
like rewritten some of the code.He's like, Oh no, you're not

(32:44):
getting away with this. I wish you weren't here.
Go back in your thing. He's like, Nope, Nope, Nope.
Like can't go against can't. She said, she said I wish this
movie, but she goes I wish all the evil in the world was gone.
He's like, no, you can't do that.
The world needs evil. It's gotta be balanced.
Is a funny one. I'll say in this one, they
actually he is more strict on itbeing people saying that they

(33:10):
have to wish. In this one, he isn't able to
like really like kind of sneak it on people because there's a
few times that other people willjust straight up deny him.
There's like he's like, is that what you?
He's like, is that a wish? Is that a request?
And they're like, no, I'm telling you it's a command.
And I was like. OK.
Well, that's fair. He just cheat a little bit
though, because I think there's.That not as much as the first

(33:30):
movie, though. The first movie?
He's cheating left and right in the first movie, yeah.
Not as much as the first movie, but there's that.
The moment in the beginning where I'm pretty sure, unless I
got this wrong, a cop just points a gun at him and goes
freeze and he goes as you wish. And then he just turns.
Yeah, it's like but. He didn't even wish anything.
He didn't say I wish to be frozen myself.
Yeah, that's the. Other thing, he's a little bit

(33:51):
of freeze. Yeah.
So that is definitely like we. Said last.
Time the gin is definitely the original reply guy on the
Internet. He's definitely, you know,
arguing semantics. I yeah, I made that same note.
I'm like, A, that's not a wish and B, he's not the one asking

(34:12):
to be frozen. Like, he's not like saying, man,
like it's so hot out here. I wish like, you know, I wish I
had like an ice cold snow cone. And he's like, great.
And then he like, traps him in agiant igloo, like it's not doing
anything. But I love the detective who
arrests him and like, absolutely, it's like, I'm the
one that asks the questions here, not you.

(34:33):
And he absolutely won't buy intoany of like the gin's bullshit.
And then when the gin like leaves, he's like, oh, man, that
guy gives me the creep. Like he's the he's the one guy
in any of these movies that's like, Nope, I am not going to
fall for this. And he doesn't even know because
he's just like an angry, pissed off detective with way too much

(34:55):
on its plate. I kind of love that.
Yeah. Well, and it is something that
that's a little bit different this time around because there's
him, but then there's you get the sense that like the Jin's
having a little more trouble than usual in this one trying to
get people to go along with these wishes.
Because, I mean, you know, the the prison maybe should have

(35:18):
gone a little bit differently after a guy walks through the
bars and, you know, ends up a meat sack.
But you would you would think that the other prisoners would
maybe not make any wishes after that.
But but there are quite a few characters, I feel like who are
kind of like, no, I'm not, I'm not going to get involved in
this. Like you go make wishes with

(35:38):
these guys and you know, it just, I don't know.
I like the despite being in the prison setting, he's still kind
of having to like really work toget these characters.
Amazing. I've only got 200.
I need 800 more that he's putting in the time.
Like he's definitely putting in the time here.
Oh, yeah, I mean, well, yeah, 'cause there's, there's like

(36:00):
stuff we didn't see. Because at one point when Tiny
is like, he's like, he's like, there's been more fights.
He's like, there's been an increase in contraband.
So like he's been stimulating the prison economy with his
wish, with his wish granting is is very fun.
A funny concept and like whenever like and like how he's
like stepping on other people's terms and it's like and and when

(36:24):
every time grant somebody wish he always goes.
I didn't tell your friends like a like, creepy salesman or
something, but like, yeah, so itincreases Rep while in prison.
So like, I'd like to see like, Imean, we only see, you know, so
much. But like, because he has
multiple stints in the hole, so he spends at least a month or so
in in prison. Like he didn't just like do like

(36:44):
a like quick like in and out. He was like, all right, I'm
gonna let you know, see how longI can ride this out.
I love his. I love his reaction to time.
He's like, he's like, he's like,I'm gonna put you in the hole
for a week and he just like starts.
He just goes, ha, he's like I'vedone, He's like, I've been in a
hole for 3000 years ago. That'll be a breeze.
Yeah, not not to mention The Breakfast Club again, but it's

(37:06):
like that, you know, where he keeps adding on detentions.
Oh my God, just the back and forth of it.
But you have to wonder like, howis this prison not just noticed,
you know, like 100 plus prisoners probably just not
there anymore because because you have to think most of them
are wishing like get me the fuckout of here, right?

(37:27):
Well, here's the other problem with the gin is that like his
whole thing is to get people to like want to make wishes.
And like you said, Matt, when you turn a guy into Hamburger
Helper and then like press him through the prison bars, like
you're immediately, if you witnessed that, you're going to
be like. I'm But that was at the holding

(37:48):
cell. That wasn't there.
That wasn't there. He wasn't in yet.
No, but there are six or seven other holding cell people in
there, right? So that should have been an easy
7 wishes granted. So there's the whole adage like
you get more flies with honey than you do.
Vinegar. So if the and he gets the soul

(38:10):
either way. Like The thing is, he can
collect these souls at any time.Yeah, yeah, that, that is the
interesting thing when he chooses to.
Kill someone randomly? Yeah.
Yeah, and he's. Just being a Dick, like he's
just a bully. Cause most of the time he saves
it for later. He's like, oh, he's like, I'll
get your soul later. And he like does his like mass
collection at the end of the movie.
But like, yeah, sometimes he's just like, you know what,

(38:31):
actually, let me go ahead. Like but it it made sense when
he killed butts. Like cause butts is like kind of
fucking shit up. If he got those like 1000, he
got like that one guy, I just want to walk out of here.
It's like great door opens, guy walks out.
You look at the other six guys like, what can I do for you
guys? Right?
He's not, he's working harder, not smarter.

(38:52):
Like he's like, because like it takes a fair amount of creative
ingenuity to think about, OK, this guy wants to walk out of
the walk through the prison bars.
How am I going to do this in a way that, like, tickles my
tickles my artistic bone like hereally has to?
That's really what it is at the end of the day.

(39:14):
He, he's, he's entertaining himself, you know, again, he's
been, he's spent, you know, manymillennia locked inside.
I mean, you, you, when we go back to the gin's place, we see
what it's like there. You know, it's not he even he, I
love him. He goes.
It's not exactly happy. It's really funny, but like
also, so he's out in the human world.
So he's like, he's like, I'm gonna get my souls.

(39:36):
He's like, but I don't need to get it right away.
Let me enjoy this for a minute. Let me have.
Fun. He's not though.
He's so mad. He's like, you know, if he was
like, this is like a holiday forme being out.
You know, I'm in Vegas, you know, I'm going to the clubs I'm
going to meet. You know, Siegfried and Roy are
on tap. Like I've, you know, I think by
that point, like, I don't know, Sinatra live in 99, I don't

(40:00):
remember. But Don Rickles would have been
in residency in Vegas. I'm going to catch a couple
shows like there's no hurry. Like there's but he's like, no
man, I got to we got to get thismoving along.
And the other part of it is his whole thing is he wants to get
his gin buddies out. So he needs 3 wishes.
So if you're Morgana and you seewhat this guy is doing where

(40:22):
you're like, well, you know, my criminal boyfriend is dead.
I'm having these horrific nightmares.
The only good option in front ofme is like a priest with like a
Major League Baseball players goatee and bad hair.
Like you know, like if you went to Morgana, I was like look at
all these great things I've doneand they only get one wish you
get 3. What would you like?

(40:44):
And he just, you'd get do 2 nicethings and then she's like, you
know what, hell yeah, like what do I want for #3 And then, you
know, it's like a gin party at that point.
But he just has to be that guy. He's like you want.
To release him, wait. Wait till you meet his gin
buddies because that's coming, Mike, right, you do get to you

(41:07):
do get to meet some gin buddies here soon.
Don't be worried. I just love how Mike is like,
listen, Gin, you're doing it allwrong.
Let me show you how this is done.
OK, But, but I mean, you're absolutely right.
Like, you know, I mean, here's this guy who's just walking
around again with that grin, notblinking and and turning people

(41:28):
in, as you said, Hamburger Helper.
And it's like, that's not reallythe guy that I think I trust,
you know, like that's not approachable person.
He's The thing is he's cocky because once again, why does he
want to be Andrew Divov? This kind of short ish guy that
has a pedo smile. He could easily go get a model's

(41:49):
face. He could.
I mean, he's still a hands on the guy, but I mean, come on.
He looks like he hangs out at playgrounds, but like he could
easily go get a model's face or something.
Make this yeah, super easy. But he's cocky so.
It's interesting cuz I listened to the whole commentary for this
one hoping to get an answer to why does he do the performance

(42:12):
this way in Part 2? Why does he always have that
smile? Because because I, I just
watched the first one again thismorning.
And like, he doesn't do that. He's a little more, he's a
little more suave in the first one, you know, like he's he's,
he's a little more manipulative in it.
And and I just I just really want an answer of like was this

(42:34):
a note from? Jack.
Like, did you like did like, didJack look at the first one and
he's like, no, that's stupid. Robert Kurtzman was stupid for
having to do that. I'm I'm genius like.
He he's just walking around. He's just walking around set and
he's like, hey, Andrew, do the face.
And Andrew like makes the smile and he laughs to himself and
he's like, yeah, yeah, keep that.

(42:54):
Or it's like the energy of like when a kid does 1 funny thing at
a family gathering and then justlike can't stop doing it.
That's him with the face in thismovie.
Do you think he's like, if you don't do the face, I will put
you in the makeup chair and you have to wear this whole bodysuit
and it's like 4 hours to get in,two hours to get out and do

(43:14):
office. Like I will do whatever you
want. Just please, please don't make
me like be the gin the whole movie because he is not the gin
for a lot of it. Like you almost feel like he
could do all of that work in a couple days of shooting, which I
prefer. Like I actually kind of prefer
it in human form. It's just it's just because in

(43:35):
partly is because of the facial tics.
Like I said last time, he looks like Seth MacFarlane, who's like
seeing a lot of shit go down like that is what he.
I say that's accurate. Well, and and see, and that's
the thing again, like that's that's really what Divov adds.
It's not like because again, like in the next movie, like
Novak, I think he's fine as the gin, but you never see Novak in

(43:58):
his human form. It's always the gin played by
different actors, which I think was always meant to be the case
for the fact that they give the gin this ability to take faces
and assume I days. So they just, they just struck
gold with Divov to where they were like, we got to get him to
be in the human form again, eventhough he again doesn't need to.
Be as much as like. I don't want to spoil what I'm

(44:21):
sure is the masterpiece that is Wish Master 3.
Is it meant to be like a different Gin?
I that's a good question that that is, I had a theory because
I watched the series originally.I did like a whole watch thread
on Twitter. So like you can go back and if
you want to see my like initial reactions.

(44:42):
But I did have the theory that I'm like, because at first they
make it seem like it's the same gin, but then there are clues
that it could be a different gin.
So it is, you know, kind of Spidey there.
But again, it's like devolve adds so much like cuz he does do
the he is also the one in the makeup for this, but he adds so
much more in that human form that again, like they kind of,

(45:03):
you know, skirt around their ownthing that they set up or he's
like, you know, to be this body hopper.
But again, he's just like, you know, the gin's just like, I
like this guy's face. I like them baby blue eyes.
And I love how he keeps his thing of wearing suits.
As soon as he gets out of prisonhe goes and gets himself a good
suit before they go to the club.Yeah, and I mean it, it makes

(45:24):
sense for Divov just as an actorbecause I mean, you know, at
this point, like you've come a long way from your your little
bit role-playing a monster in Neon Maniacs.
You know, like now you're now you're the star.
Like you are the the horror franchise icon.
Like, why wouldn't you want to be, you know, out of the make up
and getting to just perform the whole time?

(45:46):
But again, I just really want toknow what inspires this
particular performance. Frozen.
Smile is definitely it's UN because it's not even it's just
like it pulls you out of it. Do you know what I?
Mean it's the it's the the scenethat got me with it is whenever,
whenever. Fuck, what Pastor Gregory, when

(46:09):
he goes to see the gin in prisonbecause she's like, you got to
see his, like, you just got to see him like you, you know, when
you see it, you know, And then he's just like, oh, this guy is
not of this world. And he's just like, he just sits
down across from the gym with this horrified look.
And it's just Andrew DeVos smiling.
And it's a really funny exchangethat they have.

(46:31):
It was and like it. Takes you out of it, but it's
fun. It's really funny.
I like because, again, one of his cheekier remarks.
When Gregory's like, he's like, he's like, oh, what are you, the
devil? And he's like, you got the wrong
guy. Yeah.
Well, so Speaking of that, I have to mention this is like
this was another thing that I felt like made its way in the

(46:53):
horror a lot, especially in 1999.
I mean, you had so many religious horror films that year
from like Stigmata and Resurrection and End of Days,
like. Yeah, that was like
Schwarzenegger as well, right? Yeah, so it was like a big
theme. Though I mean, turn of the
century, new millennia, right? And that was the year of Y2K and

(47:14):
thinking like when the clock strikes midnight, everybody is
like the clocks, the computer clocks are going to roll over
and not handle it and planes aregoing to fall from the sky like,
and none of that. Obviously, and none of it
happened, thank God, but we we all thought it did at the time.
But but, but you know, so you had a lot of that working into
horror at the time. And I just, I just found it so

(47:37):
funny how you have this priest character who is referring to
the wishmaster as the devil. And the witchmaster is flat out
like, no, that's not, that's notme.
And he just insists like, no, you're the devil.
Like my religion owns everything.
He holds up a. Crucifix at one point like the
Jinnah's entire and it's like, bro, come on, what do we?

(48:00):
It's like wrong religion man. Like, come on, what are we?
Doing and again he he like fakesthe like and then just reveals
that smile again like he really was milking that smile like it's
so funny. Speaking of funny, let's talk
about Hastika a little bit then,because like played by Vito

(48:22):
Ruginus, and I'm probably mispronouncing that, but Hostic
is fascinating a because he's hilarious.
Like, who doesn't need like a little Russian sidekick in all
of these movies? Like fucking phenomenal.
You know? I feel like David Harbour is
taking notes before he goes to play his character in

(48:44):
Thunderbolts. Like taking notes from Haastika
here and how to play. Wait, who are?
You what? The Russians.
Saying Krutchkov, you mean? Am I saying the wrong?
Who are you even? Saying the wrong character I I
To be fair, I. Didn't you literally just
made-up a Russian name? His name is Krutchkov.
I think it's I'm looking at. I am.
OB Krutchkov. Really.

(49:05):
Is it? Oh well.
I I think it might list them as Hostica on IMDb though.
List them as Hostica. Oh, in the movie he's crutch
call. Why is there a different name on
IMDb? I have no idea.
I was like why? Who are you talking?
Just making up Russian names I. Thought I was having a stroke

(49:26):
for a thing. I was like, what are you should
say? And I'm sitting over here like,
yeah, that's probably it sounds Russian enough.
The fact that you remembered hisname is amazing though, because
like I, I'm bad at remembering character.
Well, I was finishing the movie like we're literally right
before we start recording. OK, got it.
But, you know, a, we all want like a little Russian sidekick,

(49:48):
but like, for whatever reason, like the gin is like, you know,
everyone who makes a wish, I'm going to like fuck with them
right away. But he takes this guy under his
wing and even gives him like a kind of gives him a second wish
in some ways too. He's like, you know, you're my
little buddy, like I'm going to look out for you.

(50:08):
Why do we think the Jinn does that?
Like what does he see in this guy that he's like, I could use
a pal. So, so look here, OSAP, he's
been out in the world. He's been, you know, apparently
he like killed some folk he's inwith, You know, he's like kind
of like a like kind of like Lieutenant level in the mob.
Like he's not like a big guy, but he's like, he's a little up

(50:30):
there. But I like his, like his
frankness whenever he's like kind of asking the jinn about
his philosophy and, and like, and OSAP's like, look, I've seen
the fucking, you know, the reality and humanity and like,
you know the thing, the, the evil that people do, the greed
that people have. He's like, I get it.
And he's like, he's like, if there's an exchange of goods and

(50:51):
services, like whatever he's like, so he's like, I don't care
what you want to do, man. He's like, I'm like, he's like,
it sounds like it is more realistic to him in a way in
like kind of his thinking. So like, I don't know, I, I
think the Jin's like, oh, this guy kind of kind of gets it.
And he's like, he's like, he kind of gets it.
He's helping me out. Like, and he's, you know, and I

(51:14):
think it all worked out for him.So like, yeah, I think he did
like just kind of take a liking to him just being like, you
know, like this guy, like he maybe a, he may be a killer, he may
be a, you know, a felon. He may be all of these things,
but like, he's a realist and like he's like fuck it,
whatever. Right.
I'd like that he also has like the which seems like a pretty

(51:35):
smart idea. Like oh if Morgana is the only
person that can like grant the three who can make the 3 wishes
to. Which is the one wish thing a
thing in the first film? I don't remember.
Yeah so everyone can get one wish for one soul, but to
unleash the jinn it has to be the the person that released

(51:57):
from the Opal has to make their 3 wishes I.
Don't think they have like I need 1000 souls.
That was not a part of the firstone.
Yeah, yeah, that was new. Just wants.
To up his game, it's kind of. I mean, hey, Vegas numbers,
whatever. But yeah, I mean like damn,
that's a big jump from like I just need 3 wishes from this one

(52:17):
person to like OK, 1000 wishes before that.
Jinns, that's a lot of work. This would have been the time
when like arcades are still around.
Like do you think the Jinns havelike a soul collecting thing
like Frogger and he's looking atthe high score and he's like, I
just want to put my high score count in and type in AS.

(52:38):
S He's got like the Hall of Famething.
Well, actually, again, to kind of tease these later entries, he
does start getting fed up with the Jinn bureaucracy and is the
whole like this whole, yeah, he's like all these
stipulations, he starts getting fed up with it later.
So like so, this does develop a little bit actually.

(53:01):
He's like Michael Douglas and Falling Down.
That's amazing. How long ago did you watch 3:00
and 4:00? So I got to be honest, like I
just remember hating. Them back in September October,
cuz I was doing it for Hooptober.
Gotcha. It was in spooky season.
So yeah still still fairly recent.
He does start getting fed up with the gin bureaucracy have
been like hey, there's all theseamendments to the prophecy.

(53:24):
You know that he he gets annoyedwith.
Gotcha. This was the first step.
Khrushchev or Hasika or whateverhis name is.
He does have the smart idea about Morgana.
Like well, if she's not alive tomake these wishes then you know
the prophecy won't come true. So what if I just put two in her

(53:45):
chest right now? Which unfortunately doesn't
really help because for some reason she's protected.
Like I don't understand how thatworks either.
Except it's a movie. And.
It's definitely a rule change from the first one because I was
again, I was just watching that this morning.
And with with the protagonist inthat one, he has the whole thing

(54:08):
towards the end where he's like,I don't need to, I don't need
for you to be dead to make your wishes.
Sir. I don't remember how he phrases
it, but he's like but he but he basically implies like I can
make you wish you were dead. Yes.
By, like, inflicting pain on herand everything, which is a
terrifying concept because it's like, of course you're going to
wish it would end. So yeah, you kind of wonder why

(54:28):
he didn't just go that route again.
Well, and that's a Jack Shoulderthing.
Like not to harp on him saying him talking about him way more
than I thought we would, but like in in A Nightmare on Elm
Street 2, like he takes the rules of the first movie and
just throws them out the window.He's like, no, like Freddie's
not going to haunt your dreams. He's like going to do this

(54:49):
better. Yeah, he's like Wes Craven
Schmaven. Who cares?
He's like, what if like instead Freddie just manipulates.
You know that cool thing that Freddy is known for, For
attacking people in dreams? What if he didn't do that?
What if he was just a real guy again?
Like Jack Shoulder is totally like the kid in kindergarten who
drew like a shitty picture of anapple and was like, this is a

(55:12):
fucking masterpiece. Like like no kid is ever going
to do better than this. Mom put every piece of artwork
he ever, so the fridge is covered with pictures of his
apples and they're all brilliantand she's never taken them down.
Like no one's ever told Jack Shoulder no.
So it's just I do what I want. Right.

(55:33):
And and I will say like, you know, well, I may not love him
as much as a person. To his credit as a director
doing sequels, I do appreciate that he kind of throws out the
rules a little bit and kind of does his own thing because, you
know, to me, I think that's whatmakes sequels more interesting
is kind of when they're their own sort of film.

(55:53):
But it just, you know, in this case, it's like you are throwing
out a lot that worked really well.
Yeah, the first time around. So.
Well, what also, oh, we have, you know, before we leave the
prison, can we just talk about Double Dragon like so?
So how would I refer to the twin?
Like what is happening? It was awesome.

(56:14):
So. Random, so much fun.
Just like what if we had these, the double mint twins and
they're going to all of a suddenlike it's Larusso and it's like
the Cobra Kai for like 2 minutes.
Here, well, you can't say twin dragon, that'd be copyright.
So they are listed as James and Simon Tiger, the Tiger twins
instead. So you can't go twin dragon.

(56:38):
But yeah, it's I'm OK, I'm OK. So random, so funny.
I love OK. This is where the gin I think he
sold himself short on this moment where the Tiger Twins
gang up on Butts, played by Rhino Michaels.

(56:59):
Lol what a name. Where did they find these
people? This is amazing.
But he goes, he's like I would. He's like, I want to be fucked
up. He's like, I want to be tore up
from the floor up. It put me into the ground.
I was like, all right, you have all these options.
What are you going to do, Jen? Are you going to make him flat
and, like, onto the ground? Are you gonna, you know, RIP his

(57:23):
skin from his ankles at like, what?
What are you gonna do? And it's instead get beat up by
the, the the twins? I was like that.
Come on, Gin, What are you doinghere?
Yeah, it's like funny, but it's underwhelming, right?
Like. Yeah, it's funny, but it's like
you had a lot of options here Gin on how you can twist all
those things, he said. Cuz the gin is just like smiling

(57:45):
at all the ridiculous things he's saying.
He's like, yeah. And I was like, all right, fuck
them up, Jen. And it doesn't quite do it.
It's one of the it's one of the like unfortunate things about
this sequel in the later ones isthat to me, like, you know,
certain horror franchises just call for a decent budget, right?
And Witch Master is one of thoselike, you know, this isn't this

(58:08):
isn't Halloween where you can just stab a bunch of people with
a butcher knife and you're good.Like you just, you want to see
these elaborate wishes play out and, and it's so it just, it's
always kind of shocking to me that like they took this and
they're like, OK, we're going togive you half the budget for
this. And then for three and four,
we're like, OK, we're going to give you a fourth of the budget
of 2. And, and plus, I was reading the

(58:32):
other day that Jason Jenkins book Phantom Limbs raised
interviews with like unmade scripts and everything Devoff
and Russell Gagnon originally wanted to do Wishmaster 3, the
third Millennium. And it was going to be like this
huge film involving like a WorldWar and all this kind of stuff
that required like a massive budget.
And of course, the studio was just flat out like hell no.

(58:55):
To be fair, to be fair, like thefirst one's a minor hit.
Like it's not like the first oneis like tearing it up and the
second one debuts on television.So like, it's not like the
studio was like, let's open up the checkbook like no questions
asked. Like this isn't Marty Scorsese
going to Apple going like I need240 million to make Killers of

(59:19):
the Flower moon. And Tim Cook is like, you know
what, Uncle Marty, here you go, brother.
You do what you need to do. You're going to get shut out by
Oppenheimer. An award season, but we don't
care because it's the. Growing and and and see, this is
unfortunate too, that I think this is, you know, it's
obviously not only behind as faras like just a little bit behind

(59:42):
DVD and stuff, but a little bit too early for like something
like a crowdfund or something. Because like, if you know, Div
off and people are like, all right, we're gonna make
Wishmaster 3 this big epic. Here's how you can contribute
on, you know, crowd, you know, on Kickstarter, you know, like
could totally, you know, happen.But yeah, for them to after this
movie to be like, OK, we want tomake the biggest 1 yet.

(01:00:05):
It's like. Yeah, it was, it was never, it
was never going to happen. And and I totally understand why
the budget was cutting half for this.
Again, though, it's just that unfortunate thing of like what
these movies could be if they had a little more money, you
know? Especially anything that's like
in the fantasy realm, like anything like you, like you
said, it's not like Halloween, just a guy with a butcher knife

(01:00:27):
or even a Friday the 13th or it's like, well, he's a zombie
killer, but it's still pretty basic stuff.
It's like more like an Elm Street where it goes into the
fantastical. And you do like in the first
movie with K&B, you get like allof these wonderful effects, like
the ray, you get the like the tribute to all the stop motion

(01:00:50):
horror with like the skeleton bursting out of its skin.
And here you get that once as opposed to a half dozen times.
And it's not like the effects are poor in this movie, but
they're. Just well, they just don't get
to do him. They just don't get to do it as
often because like in this one, you at least I'll say they like
saved it for like the right. There's some of the right
moments because like you can see, obviously they put a good

(01:01:13):
chunk of money into his reanimation like whenever the
whole thing him coming out of the wall and that public.
Crawling towards him. I love his face in the wall when
he's just like, incredible. Incredible So it's like I like
so they, you know, put money into that part they put a little
bit into some like, you know they they sprinkle them in.

(01:01:35):
It's unfortunate though, becauselike at the end when it's, you
know, it's supposed to be like the, you know, all hell breaks
loose in the casino. This is supposed to be like the
big showcase, you know, and you compared to like the opening of
the first, you know, Wishmaster movie.
You know, there's not quite as many like individual moments in
that that that one just has a lot of like random stuff

(01:01:57):
happening. Don't get me wrong, there's a
few really good stuff in that like kind of chaos sequence, but
again, it's not on the level of having like these like really
specific individual and the chaos like.
Popping through the wall, like the face popping out of the wall
is like very similar again, likeElm Street 2, like Freddie
popping out of Freddie, popping out of Jesse's chest like that

(01:02:20):
kind of splitting open like it'shim going back to what works and
it is pretty cool. Let's talk the casino because
that is a really fun set piece. Like, oh, that's a great idea.
Like let's set this chaos here in both films and with like a
bit wishmaster one and two end with these larger set pieces.
But I feel like, you know, you can't make it look like The MGM

(01:02:43):
or Caesar's, but it's still likea pretty fun little sequence
here with like all of the especially they're all old
people that are just playing craps on a Tuesday.
Also shout out Bokeem Woodbine. Love seeing my boy pop up in
here. I totally forgot about him and I
was. Like oh shit, my God I could
not. Oh, he's, you know, he's been a

(01:03:04):
character actor in a lot of stuff.
I mean, he was, he plays a fathead in Ray.
He's really great in that. But he's in other stuff like
Jason's Lyric. He was in like 1 of the Spider
Man movies, like whatever. But he's a he's been a steady
working actor for a long time and it's nice seeing him pop up

(01:03:25):
in this. Yeah, well, it's for the Vegas
scene, you know, Speaking of thegrin again, I just love the
moment. Where the Wishmaster first gets
there and he's kind of like taking in the place, and then he
sees some guy playing craps and like, come on, you know, show me
the money or whatever the hell, he says.
And he just gets like, the grin gets even bigger where he's just
like catching. Catching.

(01:03:47):
So here is my question on. I have two questions.
And #1 can the pit boss, like, speak for the house?
Meaning he's like, yeah, the house wants people to win.
And it's like, well, the house is not like a person.
The house is like the building. It's the casino itself.
So does the pit master have the authority to speak for the whole

(01:04:11):
house? And then two, the House is
making if, let's say we take that to the Supreme Court, we
exhaust our appeals and the Supreme Court rules that, yes,
the pitmaster can speak for the House.
The House is like it's, you know, the precursor to Citizens
United, Like. Mike, are you really questioning
the legality of a casino that isobviously dirty just?

(01:04:36):
Let me draw back on my gangster years and I'll.
I am almost there. It's a precursor to Citizens
United, where Mitt Romney famously once said corporations
are people too. So you're saying the House is a
person too? The House makes a wish that we
want people to win. So that's it.
Comes down 63 ruling on the sideof the conservatives, OK.

(01:04:57):
However the people that are playing did not out loud speak
their wish. They might have internalized
that wish, but they have not spoken aloud.
I want to win. So does he have?
I would argue that the Jin does not have the authority to take
their souls. I, I, I get where you're going

(01:05:19):
with this, but again, this is just kind of like throw the
fucking rules out the window sequence.
You know, it's back. It's back to the guard who says
freeze again, right Where it's just like.
I'm a little concerned that you don't want to consider the legal
implications. So I'm thinking because what I'm
thinking is statistically, statistically speaking, what are
some of the phrases you say whenyou're gambling?

(01:05:40):
You say like you are pleading for luck, you are wishing for
money and luck. So, so the on.
So even if they didn't explicitly agree it to it, the
Jin's face, I think if he makes this set this presence for this,
yeah, mass wish, people are gonna inadvertently be like,

(01:06:02):
yeah, show me the money. That's a wish like, you know.
He's like a wish. I get the sense.
Territory here though, I feel like these are now thought
crimes and you're now losing your soul over just, I don't
know, I'm not sure. Well, I get, you know, I mean
the wishmaster is certainly like, he's certainly like a
narcissist, right? So you got to feel like every

(01:06:23):
person around him being like, Oh, I, you know, I, I want this
or that. Like he's just like, oh, they're
talking to me. Like, of course they're wishing
me. So I don't know if that answers
the legality of of said case, but.
Again, if if he if the gym is going to go anywhere to bend the

(01:06:43):
rules, you know, I do like the choice of this being a thing.
Again, this could also be its own movie.
Like if he really got in with like the crooked casino business
and stuff, that could be a wholeWishmaster movie.
When they show him sitting up inthe office in the chair with
like the big horns and everything, it's all red lit.
I'm like, this is totally its own film.
Like this could be its own thing.

(01:07:05):
This could be its own televisionshow.
You have like evil Genie that islike granting wishes at a
casino. Like I don't know if either of
you ever watched like the Fridaythe 13th TV series, which I
loved growing up and it had nothing to do with the movies.
It was like the haunted like antique store where they all the

(01:07:26):
objects were cursed. Like you could totally do
something like that on the Sci-fi Channel or USA.
I would love A wish Master series yeah Wish of the week
casino and. Then after the casino exhaust
itself, then maybe like, I don'tknow, he becomes like a
traveling preacher for a season and he's like doing.

(01:07:48):
I mean, he can, he can totally be like a priest in a church
and. Traveling Preacher Gin would go
so hard. Oh man.
Totally make this work. You know we could talk miracles,
wishes, right? Oh.
Man, you're cooking my. Hated my ideas so much now Devon
is all I'm saying is like oh. You're cooking.
I'm. That's in money.
I'm. In right here this is the.

(01:08:08):
Money. You're making all these great
ideas and they're just going to be so disappointed with 3:00 and
4:00. Go Speaking of money shots, we
have to talk about the most insane scene of this movie.
I'm surprised we made it. I'm surprised we made it this
far without talking about. I wish my lawyer would go fuck
himself well. Thank God, how did I forget?

(01:08:32):
You know, take. It I would.
I mean, I remember watching it for the first time again, if you
go to my original watch thread, I was screaming during a scene
because this is just absolutely insane.
Again, this is like a classic oflike when you're writing a
script and you're going, OK, I got the gin.
He grants wishes. He twists people's words.

(01:08:54):
What are some things I can twistto, you know, make for an
interesting And he goes with this.
It's just so crazy the whole like the the the actor, I don't
know who the lawyer is, but he is selling the shit out of this.
Like bless him for selling this scene.
Like imagine going on set and they go, all right, so this is

(01:09:18):
what this is what we're doing today.
Let's go ahead and get a body cast of your legs real quick,
because you're going to fuck yourself in the ass to death.
What is? What do we think?
Insane. What do we think he's feeling at
first when like before he yeah, he's like, he's the fucking
himself. So.
It's him getting like a murderous boner is what's

(01:09:38):
happening and it and is like I, I imagine his like.
And it's like really like his Dick is like stretching.
And yeah, stretching backwards, OK.
And then you see his legs go back and his feet turn the other
way. See.
But I I have a very important question is did he fuck himself
to death? Yeah.
'Cause we we never, but we neverreally get an answer.

(01:10:00):
Did he die? I, I he's gonna wish that he
well, he's gonna die in the soulcollection.
Maybe I don't. Know what?
Does he just revert dead? Does he just revert back to how
he was and was like well. No, you, you never go back to
that. Yeah, you never go back after
that. Like you're he is a new person
after that. I mean, if you could just go

(01:10:20):
back to your original form, I would never leave the house.
Like, like this is the dream right here.
So. It's insanity.
Like whoever came up with this scene is insanity.
Great. I also love what's his face the
prisoner who's just like what about my case like a man is.

(01:10:42):
Fucking himself. And then there's the other and
then there's the other officer that is just watching stone face
and not doing anything, like notsaying anything.
Everyone's reactions are, it's just.
It's just a normal day for him, you know, See it all the time.
I don't, I don't think we're gonna top that.
I really. So any final thoughts?

(01:11:05):
I think we're good on Witch Master 2.
Nah, I mean, this was again, this is silly.
This is silly Goose time for sure.
Many, many just very funny things about this movie.
And yeah, it's a it's a, you know, it's it's the classic case
of a sequel where they want to go a little crazier, don't quite

(01:11:27):
have the means to do it. So then they're like, well,
let's just be weirder then is kind of what this one does.
So it's a little shabbier. And the third act is Oh my God.
So I rolly like the whole crucifixion stuff.
So now you're pure because you save the OR whatever.
Like the the third, the finale sucks, unfortunately so, but

(01:11:50):
like at the end of the day. At the end of the day, though,
this is still like just like stupid entertainment, like this
is a fun stupid time and and I appreciate it.
I mean, yeah, I'm not mad at it.I can't help but enjoy it.
Yeah, it's, you know, it's a film that, for better and worse,
knows what it is, right. Like, I mean, you have the whole

(01:12:11):
moment where the Wishmaster saysevil never dies.
The the tagline of the film, like, you know, it's like it, it
knows what it is. Jack Shoulder approaches it with
a just like give no shits. I'm just going to have a fun
time kind of attitude, which I think is the right approach for
a sequel like this. That's half the budget where
you're just the sillier that you.

(01:12:33):
And it's a silly concept in and of itself.
And I think just the more you play it up, the better for it it
is. But yeah, just, you know, just
unfortunate that it didn't quitehave the money to maybe amp up
that finale a little bit. Go ahead.
Yeah, yeah. It makes the most of what it has
and like I said, like at the outset, like Holly Fields is

(01:12:56):
Morgana like until they make herthe church girl like just really
fun final girl performance for the 1st 2/3 of it.
Not what you typically see in a final girl in terms of that that
really like kind of like goth punk look, you know, which I
don't know. I thought you look great to hear

(01:13:18):
the the deep red makeup, like the all the shit kicker combat
boots with all black. Like I'm into it.
Like give me a road movie with her and like Sally from wrong
turn 6 and the, you know, just I'm all over it like I would.
Yeah. I think, I think that's what's
disappointing about her arc, right?
Is that like she is so kind of unique for a final girl in a

(01:13:41):
film like this. Up until the 3rd actor, it's
like, ah damn it. Like we were so close.
And it's a fun throwback monstermovie.
So, well, that's it on Wish Master too.
So why don't we take a couple minutes to plug where you can
find all of us and we're out, Matt, where can folks find you?

(01:14:01):
And like, what sites and other artistic stuff do you want to
tell everyone about? Yes, you can find me on Blue Sky
at where Matt? Not on Twitter and anymore
because fuck them. And let's see.
You can find a lot of my reviewsthat I do on
killerheartbreak.com. I also occasionally write for

(01:14:22):
Dread Central. I have a or a column at Manor
Vellum and I do occasionally work with Aero Video and
Umbrella Entertainment. I just had a couple sets of Thai
Horror Collection and a new release of Shutter that Umbrella
just put out that I worked on. So you know, I'll plug those.
Go check that those out if you can.

(01:14:43):
And that's it. Very cool, would love to have
you back on man. Take a look at the list and see
what looks good. Yeah, I know.
It's been a blast. Thanks for having me, guys.
Oh. Free.
Will see if we have any classierfilms though next time.
Devonne, how about yourself? What's coming up with both your
shows? Yeah, you can find me at all the

(01:15:03):
usual places at Under Score, Daddy Disco on Blue Sky,
Instagram, Letterbox, Over on Spectra Cinema Club, we are
celebrating my birth month. I mean, we're doing that here
too 'cause this was also my choice.
But we are doing films focusing on their scores, soundtracks and
sound designs. We just did a really great
recording with Mr. Brian Kuiper talking the changeling and so we

(01:15:28):
have a really great conversationon that coming up.
And then over on Tainted Love, we just dropped an episode on on
Bones and all, and coming up we have a very extra horny episode
on Crash. So that's gonna be a really fun
conversation as well. So you can find Spectre Cinema
Club new episodes every Tuesday,Tainted Love every other

(01:15:50):
Wednesday at Tainted Love pod onsocial media at Spectre Cinema.
Excellent, folks. You can find me at Mike Snooney
and over on Blue Sky. Again, not on Twitter at all
because fuck those guys. You can find me at Instagram at
the same and letterbox at Mikechumpchange, which is really
where I'd like people to follow me.

(01:16:11):
I'm not a huge social media person.
Follow the show at Pod and Pendulum on Blue Sky.
Same over on Instagram. Make sure you visit
[e-mail] and for a little bit of
housekeeping, which we usually do at the top now but I forgot
today, make sure if you are enjoying our show, please rate,

(01:16:33):
review and subscribe to us. Give us a five star rating on
Apple Podcasts as well as a review and that goes a long way
to new listeners discovering us.You can rate US five stars on
Spotify as well, and you can leave individual comments on our
episodes on Spotify. Tell me where you would come

(01:16:55):
down on the great case of casinos versus the gin.
I feel like I'm in the right here.
And also send us your gin present day recastings because
unfortunately we have to say farewell to Divv off for the
next. 10 I thought anybody passed away No OK, just.

(01:17:18):
Just a little. Sorry, did mean to give you a
heart attack there. My bad.
But so send those to us because we're going to talk about that
in the next one. But also, what if you really
love us? Become a patron.
Go to patreon.com/pod and the Pendulum and become a patron
today. Thanks to Lizzie who just signed

(01:17:39):
up. I think as of this morning we
have tiers starting as low as 2 bucks and we have so much great
stuff on there. Brian is recording I think early
next week, Our last episode on the Nosferatu films.
Robert Eggers 2024 Nosferatu. All the other Nosferatto films

(01:17:59):
including Shadow of the Vampire are up now on our patron page.
Ari has her whole series on I Spit on Your Grave, where she
covered each of those films and did a whole episode just as an
overview in the rape revenge subgenera.
This summer. It's going to we're going back
to the future for the 40th anniversary of one of the

(01:18:21):
greatest sci-fi fantasy series of all time to celebrate its
40th anniversary. We'll be doing our like typical
deep dive that we do with like the foundational horror movies,
but doing it in something we normally wouldn't cover here.
And we have so many like over almost like 75 to 80 hours of
content that's already up there,a lot of one off episodes.

(01:18:44):
So again, patreon.com pod of thependulum as a way to support the
show. Here's what we have coming up
here. Next two weeks.
We've got two more Wishmaster films to get through Wishmaster
3 and 4. After that, we're taking a
little detour because Final Destinations Bloodlines is out
now in theaters and it looks like it's going to be the

(01:19:06):
biggest opening of any of the Final Destination movies.
It is a blast. It is one of the most fun
experiences I've had in a long time in a theater.
It is pure comedy gold. And since we've already covered
the rest of the series, we'll bedoing 1 episode on Bloodlines.

(01:19:26):
We're going to follow that up with a rankings episode.
We'll probably do each of the movies, probably do each of the
opening, like ranking the opening set piece kill sequences
as well. Like we'll probably go through
that. And then it is the summer of
George. We'll be doing all of the George
Romero Dead films, all six of those.

(01:19:47):
And for good measure, we'll alsobe covering Zack Snyder's 2004
Dawn of the Dead reboots and the1990 Tom Savini reimagining of
Night of the Living Dead. So we're really excited for
that. It's that should be kicking in
around July on the main feed. So that's why we're calling it
the Summer of George. And that is it, folks.

(01:20:10):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode.
It has been a lot of fun. Like it is light and breezy and
like what you know? We hope you've enjoyed it, we
enjoy putting it together. Have a great week everybody.