WISHMASTER

Episode Transcript
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(00:35):
None in 321 hit record. Hello everyone and welcome to
the pod and The Pendulum. We are the show that covers all
the horror franchises one movie and one episode at a time.

(00:56):
As always, I'm your host Mike Sloonian and I have 3 genies
standing by to make all of my dreams come true for today's
episode. First up from the Spectre Cinema
Club. We'll try that again.
First up from the Spectre CinemaClub and the new podcast Tainted
Love, Mr. Devon Taylor. Devon, how are we?

(01:18):
You want all the knowledge of all the horror podcasts?
Is that what you wish? Is that what you wish?
I'm so excited. I'm here for my boy.
A lot of that. A lot of oh, yes, we're just
getting warmed up again. If I was able to smoke a
cigarette while recording this episode, then because that's the

(01:39):
key to the gin voice, DeVos saidhimself.
He just smoked more cigarettes. So that is the key.
So I'm a yeah, we're going to get a lot of mileage out of that
voice and I feel like we are making your wish come true today
'cause this was your pick for the wheel, like this was your
franchise pick. So yeah, here we go.

(02:00):
Yeah, it's my wish has come trueand it and in perfect timing as
well, 'cause it's my birthday month, so at the end of the
month will be my birthday. So this is everything that
everything lined up perfectly. It's all coming up, Milhouse
also joining us today from Bloody Disgusting Manor, Vellum
and the soon to be released podcast Holy Terrors, none other

(02:24):
than Mr. Brian Kuiper. I am here to grant all of your
wishes, I guess. I don't know.
You're not gonna. Yeah, that's about the best.
That's all I've got. I I'm.
I can't do anything beyond that.You got a.
Two star review based on my voice just talking naturally.
Oh, but if I start to, like, tryto do funny voices, it'll be

(02:46):
like -6 stars like you go to hell.
One thing I'm very excited aboutwith the Holy Terrors podcast is
I learned while recording our Patreon episode on Hertzog's
Nosferatu that my Co host that Brennan does a killer Herzog
impression. So that's gonna be, that's gonna
be pulled out a lot, I'm sure. So you need to do a Patreon

(03:08):
level where he just does does episodes in the Herzog voice.
Oh yeah, you need to do. I, I, I'd pay for that and I
it's my show. That's how it works sometimes.
Well, joining us as well, we have a first time guest from the
podcast Half Price Horror, Mr. John Seavey.

(03:29):
John, how are we? And am I saying that correct?
You are saying that correct And I'm doing pretty good.
You know, bound by that which binds me, contained by that
which contains me. It's that kind of day.
It is. It's just that's is that keyword
does that like Midwest speak forit's a dreary, rainy Saturday
because that's what it is kind of here as we record it it.

(03:51):
Could be. I mean, it's pretty nice out.
I thought it sounded like some sort of, you know,
gastrointestinal health thing when he said it.
Well, dear. Contained by all that contains
me as such a Midwest idiom that makes no sense.
Well, before we jump into this movie here, let's do a quick bit
of housekeeping. If you are new to the show and

(04:13):
you have not reviewed us yet, please make sure that you leave
us a five star rating as well asa few kind words on Apple.
That goes a super long way to not only like stroking our
massive egos. Like let's be fair, when we read
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(04:35):
You can also leave us a rating of five stars on Spotify and you
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So please go ahead and do that. If you really love the show,
then why wouldn't you go ahead become a patron where you get a
ton of bonus content? You go to patreon.com pod and

(04:56):
the Pendulum and you get tons ofone off episodes of not only
like horror movies we wouldn't typically cover, but also like
different genres. Like we've dipped into film,
sorry, film noir. We've dipped into like gangster
movies of the 70s. Like we get to talk about some
really fun things that we don't normally get to do here.

(05:16):
All of us are very excited for the upcoming criteria on release
of Sorcerer. We are determined to make this
our whole personality and cover that Brian is whipping through
all of the Nosferatu films. As a matter of fact, by the time
this goes up, his episode on Shadow of the Vampire will be up

(05:37):
as well, and he'll be recording on Robert Edgar's movie later
this month, which is going to bea lot of fun.
It will be. Differing opinions there.
All of Arielle's episodes and I spit on your graver up there.
So tons of stuff for just a couple bucks. patreon.com/pod of
the Pendulum. And that is the housekeeping.

(05:58):
Let's dive into the movie. John, you are our guest.
As our guest, why don't you takea few minutes and maybe tell us
like why you wanted a guest on this particular film and maybe
what your history with the movieis?
Well, I saw this one actually back in the theater in 1997.
Yeah. I was a college student back

(06:20):
then, you know, didn't really have a partner yet, didn't
really know what I was doing with my life yet.
So I saw a lot of movies in the theater, and this one said Wes
Craven presents on it. So that sounded fun.
And I had a few hours free, so Iwent in and saw it and I had a
blast. I mean, this is just a very fond

(06:42):
memory for me. It every minute of it just was
giving me a big smile. It's a movie that is not trying
too hard to fool you or surpriseyou.
You know, the plot probably within the 1st 2 minutes
beginning to end. But it's so inventive in how it
does everything that I just, I was thrilled to be able to talk

(07:04):
about it. Like when you said, Oh yeah, I'm
doing Wishmaster. I'm like, oh man, I better get
in on that before other people try to crowd me out.
That is not a phrase I thought Iwould ever hurt here in my life.
Like I need to be like box people out to make sure I'm in
on West Wishmaster. Like that is mind blowing to me.
But all right, I love that you. I think you and I are like a

(07:26):
very similar age. So I'm wondering like, were you
definitely like an 80s horror kid growing up and into like
classic monster movies and classic effects by this time?
Well, in the 80s, I was actuallynot really allowed to watch a
lot of this stuff. You know, my parents, they
didn't believe in cable, like philosophically.

(07:48):
They were opposed to it. So I missed a lot of stuff.
We didn't, you know, I couldn't rent my own movies.
So it was whatever I caught on broadcast TV back then.
Interesting. OK.
Well, moving on to Vaughn, this is your pick for the wheel,
right? It is, It is what made you want
to pick the Wishmaster. So I stumbled upon, well, not

(08:11):
stumble upon for Hooptober, one of the requirements was to watch
all of a series with at least 4 entries in it.
And I was just going through franchises that I hadn't seen
yet. And obviously it had to have
been something that we didn't cover here at the time.
So so I watched all of these back in September, October and

(08:32):
and I fell in love with the not the movies because I spoiler
alert, the franchise peaks quiteearly.
But what I did fall in love withis the Gin.
I love this character. I think he is so entertaining
and catty and and just like the the convoluted lore behind him,

(08:53):
he's super Opie. Yet he also is has the easiest
ways to beat him. Also like there's so many very
interesting quirks that we'll learn about the Gin and Gin lore
over the next 4 films. But just like his response to
humanity is is very fascinating.So it's like I I instantly was

(09:15):
just charmed by the gin as a character.
He's like kind of this like weird, like amalgamation of like
Freddy the Leprechaun and Pinhead like kind of all like
mixed together. And that's kind of this movie
and franchise too. Like, this franchise came out at
an odd time where a lot of, like, big franchises were on

(09:37):
pause. And so I was like, all right,
who's gonna be the next big horror icon?
And it was supposed to be the gin.
And for whatever reason, he didn't quite catch on like some
other horror characters did. But he did still get 4 films,
you know, so I'm very excited just to just to, to hang out

(09:59):
with the gin like that. Like that's what I come to these
movies for. They like, 'cause they're
obviously not like scary or anything, but they're just fun.
It's a fun time to watch and it's a fun character to spend
time with. So I'm I'm very excited when you
say that like they peak early, like it's Andrew Devoff is the
lead in the first two films, correct?

(10:22):
Yes, he snaps aside for part three.
Yes. So yeah, in the in the first two
films, he, he is obviously like the human form, but he also does
do the, the voice and the makeupas well.
So my question would be like, ifyou saw the films out of order,
meaning like if you started withPart 3 or 4, would you feel like

(10:43):
that Jin was as good of a character?
Or is it like DeVos performance is a good part of like why it
works? I mean, I think, I think devolve
is a big plus for the 1st 2 movies for sure.
He's easy on the eyes. He's got a great voice, you
know, and he just has the perfect kind of charm and
swagger for the character. However, the the person that

(11:07):
takes over in three and four is is is also still entertaining.
Like like the third and 4th films are still interesting
because they those films go heavy gin lore.
Like that's when they really arelike trying to flesh out like
kind of this back story in history and these different, you

(11:28):
know, what's the I can't think of the word I'm thinking of, but
like that that. So the gin is still very
entertaining and enough to carryyour entertainment in those
films. It is a dip for sure, and not
having division off, but it's not a you worry about Part 3

(11:50):
already part three. Oh man, it's so horrible.
It's great. But but yeah, it it's not a big
drop off when you lose division off.
It's only a drop off in the human portion because like when
the gin starts portraying other human forms in three and four,
since they don't have Divov, that's when it's like, 'cause it

(12:13):
once the gin is in gin makeup inthree and four, then it's like,
oh, we're cruising. We're we're back and it's all
good. Like so you don't feel like
you're missing anything as far as like the gin when they're in
monster form. It's just the human form of the
gin is what you lose out on whenyou don't have Divov.
Brian, how about yourself? OK, well, back in 2020, I took

(12:34):
it upon myself to keep myself occupied watching everything
that Wes Craven directed. So and that sparked some
realization about sort of the through lines and themes of his
movies. So I wrote.
A couple years later I wrote a series for Manor Vellum about

(12:57):
religion and his films and one of the things that I wanted to
check out was the movies that heproduced, executive produced as
well. So not just the ones that he
that he wrote and directed just to see what it would be like.
Obviously Wishmaster was the first of those.
And when I watched it, I thought, wow, there is a lot

(13:21):
more of this in this movie than I expected.
I, I didn't expect something that he didn't write and direct
that he's listed on as executiveproducer.
Not even producer would just be like, oh, his name's above the
title to get tickets sold. But there's actually a lot of
what Craven is interested in that finds its way into this

(13:44):
movie. And I thought that was an
interesting little element. So I saw this for the first time
just, you know, 3-4 years ago. And yeah, it's, it's a lot of
fun. I kind of like the Wes Craven
presents movies even, you know, Dracula 2000 has its moments,

(14:05):
but you know, not everything's good, but it's, it's fun and
it's sort of, it's sort of that post Scream anything goes era.
So that's kind of fun. Yeah, yeah, this was new for me.
I I had not watched this film I don't think I'd.
I think I was familiar with the cover art and for some reason I

(14:29):
would get this in which board mixed up in my brain even though
they're completely different movies like filmed decade apart.
So I'm not sure why that is the case.
I wound up like watching this like 3 times over the past
couple days. Like I usually watch things
twice just to get like a good fee, especially if it's new to

(14:51):
me. And I threw it on like
back-to-back last night, mostly to listen to the commentaries
because there's two commentary tracks on the Blu-ray and
they're both really fun. Like they're both like pretty
easy. And I think like you had said,
John, like, you know what's going on like 2 minutes into
this movie. So I didn't feel like I needed
like the dialogue of this movie to kind of follow the action.

(15:15):
It's not one of those movies I always like to think about
horror movies, the context of like their place in history in
terms like when they're released.
I kind of bang the drum about like Wrong Turn being that movie
that kind of bridges like the slasher error and torture porn
when we talked about that series.
And this is fascinating to me because this comes out in 97 a

(15:40):
year after Scream. I know what you did last Summers
on its heels. So we're now entering that kind
of like, I would say second waveof slasher boom, that boy,
they're a little bit glossier. They're a little less bloody.
You have like a higher caliber performer in those films.
And in the middle of that you have this kind of classic 80s

(16:01):
monster movie, which in it in ofitself is more of a homage to
like 30s and 40s Universal Pictures.
And it's almost like, if you told me this movie came out in
99, I would have been less surprised because they're like,
oh, of course, it's kind of likea back a backlash to the glut of

(16:23):
slashers. Like everyone's zigging, we're
going to zag. But this would have been kind of
maybe worked on as that new waveof slashers are coming out.
So I did find that fascinating. I thought it looked great, like
seeing it shot on film, you know, for what it is like a low
budget film, like it looks greaton the Blu-ray and I just like
appreciated the B moviness of itall.

(16:46):
Like it just seems like a lot offun and there's a there's a lot
of effort behind it, you know, like you can like you can
totally see like how much work is put into this and how much
again, like, you know, how much reverence there is for 80s
horror, particularly in, you know, so whether it be the

(17:07):
effects that you're getting, whether it be all the the
various stars horror icons that you have in this making
appearances, like always things like it's, you know, very much
this like, you know, like, you know, like, like you said, like
whenever a scream comes out and now everybody's kind of cynical
about this kind of style of horror and this, you know, being

(17:29):
unabashedly being like, no, we're still a fantasy horror.
We're still got these practical effects.
We still got these things. And it's crazy because this
again, typically wouldn't be my style movie.
Like 80s horror is not really myjam in I know we keep saying 80s
horror and this came out in 97, but like, it does feel like such
a 90s interpretation, like looking back and holding the 80s

(17:51):
in this kind of high regard. It's typically not my aesthetic,
but again, something about the, the, the, you know, the the
confidence this film has of being like, all right, this is a
completely this is a character, you know, like obviously based
off of like some old like old myths and legends and stuff, but
like, you know, they're not adapting anything here.
This was just off the top of theDome from Atkins and just like

(18:14):
kind of rolling with this, you know, very original thing and
having the confidence to be like, all right, right, this is
going to be the next person. Like everybody knows the gin,
the wishmaster, you know, and it's just like, no,
unfortunately not it, you know, did not get kind of the the
legacy that you'd think again, because I think that it's odd
time that it that it came out where a lot of franchises were

(18:37):
almost like kind of or like, youknow, it's kind of seemed like
serious or scared to like start new franchises because they
didn't want to be a victim of the next Scream movie, you know.
So the the the timing of this coming out in because the the
spread we have is 9799, 2001, 2002.
So a very interesting little five year period here.

(19:02):
I also think you were talking about the confidence involved,
and I think you can really see that with Kurtzman in the sense
that you know when you look at directors, every director
showcases where they came from in movies.
You know when you watch a Soderbergh movie, you know the
camera work is always going to be Immaculate.

(19:24):
When you watch a James Cameron movie, you always know the
production design is going to betop notch.
And here Kurtzman is coming. I mean, you know, from being one
of the big dogs of special effects in the industry.
This is a guy who he has more credits than you know.
Most people have eaten hot dinners and the effects work in

(19:47):
this is fantastic. Not just the technical aspects,
but the inventiveness and the imagination of it.
He made a movie specifically so that he could throw in any kind
of weird effect he wanted, and he went for all of them,
sometimes at once. It's it's a murderer's row of I

(20:11):
I iconic horror performers both in front of and behind the
scenes as well. Like, that is what really stands
out of this movie. And it's like, we'll dive into
the background now. Might as well because I think
we're kind of there, you know, it, It does spring from this
idea of like, let's create like a throwback type of film.

(20:32):
Like Peter Atkins, the writer ofthis movie says like, he loved
the classic, like 30s and 40s Universal horror movies.
He loved all the stuff from likeCorman featuring an API
featuring like Vincent Price. He loved the Hammer stuff.
And he would say, like, look, a lot of those movies aren't good

(20:53):
movies. Like they're not necessarily.
Great when you. Get into you can go into our
Frankenstein series and the Cliff.
That every single one of those is an absolute top notch
masterpiece. Mike, come on.
Five stars, no notes. Yeah, exactly.
House of Dracula. Bride House of Dracula

(21:14):
notwithstanding. Yeah, yeah, I'm joking, of
course. Ghost of Frankenstein is I, I
think my feelings are clear on that, but.
It's, you know, not the best films, but at the center of it,
like those movies, like we're always watchable because at the
center of it, you would have like Boris Karloff, who never

(21:34):
gave a bad performance. If it didn't matter the movie he
was in, he was going to give youa great performance.
You would have Vincent Price, who is there to have a good time
and like wink and nod at the camera in the audience.
Like aren't we all having a bit of good silly fun here?
You would have like Christopher Lee who was and Peter Cushing

(21:55):
who were both just magnetic to watch.
No matter, they always rose above the material.
And like that was the idea behind like a movie like
Wishmaster. So Peter Aikens, who writes this
movie, he had worked on and would continue to work on a
number of the Hellraiser movies like starting with the second

(22:18):
one. Do with that information what
you will, gentlemen, in terms ofthe quality of.
Hellraiser 2 is really freaking good though.
It is Hellraiser 6, right? Right.
You know, diminishing returns after Hellraiser 2, let's say,

(22:39):
Yeah. You can totally you can totally
see the the like Hellraiser, like imprinting in Confluence
for sure, like again, and like as far as like the the lore goes
for for the Gin and the the rules, which there are many of
which we'll get into. But you can totally feel the the

(23:00):
Hellraiser influence. I mean, at least Atkins was
involved for two through 4 of Hellraiser, which is, you know,
the the good, well, quote UN quote good sequels.
Am I the only person in the in the crew that's seen them all
for whatever we're gonna do for Patreon?
Definitely seen them all. Of course.
I mean, it is her namesake. So yeah, she's definitely seen
them all. Yeah, I think she's I think she

(23:20):
has seen them all. I yeah, that's gonna be a
journey that is gonna be that's gonna be something else, folks.
It took me like 3 months. I had to like there were periods
where I had to like space it outwhere I was like there were
times that series was beating medown and I was like, I was like,
I can't give up. I willpower through.

(23:42):
But there there's some wrong wars.
Hellraiser, Hellraiser. Yeah, I thought you were talking
about about this one. Wishmaster.
You know, I've seen, I've seen all the Hellraiser movies except
for the ones that Doug Bradley'snot in.
I wasn't able to track him down at the time.
So I've seen all of them. Otherwise, I did see them and
the new Hulu one as well. So I've seen most of them.

(24:05):
I haven't even seen two. I've seen the first one and I've
seen the last one for Hulu and that's it.
Yeah, yeah. I don't even.
I mean, I think the first one isvery solid, but I am probably
much lower on it than most people.
I'm like, man, we're spending a lot of time in an attic in this
movie. Like, we're sure.
That's all they had, the money A.

(24:26):
Lot of time in an attic, you know?
Yeah, it's kind of like we couldbe doing a little bit more here
with this movie. I think, you know.
Oh, don't get me started right now, Mike.
So, oh, we'll we'll get you there eventually.
We'll get you there. So to your point, Brian, the
studios do want like a marquee horror name above the title,
like a presented by as that hookto draw audiences in.

(24:49):
And they did approach like a number of directors to act as an
executive producer, including John Carpenter, who does turn it
down and eventually, like Wes Craven, Wes Craven does agree to
it and sign on. Which honestly, it was if by
this point, like a bigger get than John Carpenter, like you
probably wouldn't have said thatbefore Scream came out.

(25:12):
But by the time this rolls around, Scream and hit in
December in 96 and goes on to make like over 100 million.
And, you know, for the third time in three decades, like,
Carpenter has like a pretty heavy hand in to finding exactly
where the genre is going to go for a number of years.

(25:32):
Carpenter, you could argue, hadn't had a commercial hit
since they live in 1988. Like, we're going on a decade.
Like, not all those movies flopped, but I don't think they
were necessarily like massive hits either.
I mean, I'd go further. Looking at his career, I don't
think he had a hit hit since Halloween.

(25:55):
All of his movies became cult classics, but almost none of
them hit in theaters. Oh, Escape from New York was a
hit. The Fog was a hit.
He was, he was. He was too busy smoking weed and
writing Ghosts of Mars to be bothered.
Also, the PlayStation had been released in 1995, so he was very

(26:15):
busy around this time to to be bothered to put his name above
the Wishmaster movies. I, I think some of it depends on
how you define hit, too. Like Escape from New York and
The Fog both did good business. But, you know, people wanted him
to go out and hit swing for the fences like with Halloween
Again. And, you know, he just wasn't

(26:35):
that kind of a guy. He was the kind of guy who made
stuff that everyone 20 years later would be saying was
brilliant. Yeah.
Right. And it seems to me somehow that
the Craven name seems to fit better with this movie somehow.
Totally. Maybe because you have that
central iconic style character. You know who's I suppose a

(27:01):
descendant in some way? Of Freddy Krueger or of Horace
Pinker, if you will. But it's not.
Or if you won't. Or if you won't.
But it's, I don't see that kind of thing being so much a
Carpenter thing somehow. So I guess for me, the some of

(27:26):
the stuff that Craven was makingin the 80s especially kind of
fits with this movie, you know, not necessarily one that he
would direct, but his name fits with it somehow for me.
I would the best thing you'll say about Shocker and Horace
Pinker is like Horace Pinker wasthe name of a very good pop punk

(27:47):
band in the early 90s. Well, there you go.
Yeah. So I think that's the legacy,
the lasting legacy, I would say.And it clearly, clearly led to
Jason goes to hell. So there you go.
True. OK.
Well, and when you look at that era.
I know you're a fan, man. Horror in the 90s was making
that turn to its serial killer and, you know, monster movie

(28:12):
Golden Age. It was, you know, Silence of the
Lambs in Jurassic Park kind of defined the decade.
And anybody who was steering away from that, they weren't
going to have a hit. I'm picturing who said serial
killer in Jurassic Park in the same sentence and I'm trying to
picture like a 1990s style detective thriller centered

(28:35):
around like a dinosaur serial killer and this movie I'm
picturing in my head seems pretty amazing like.
We or a serial killer that uses a dinosaur as his weapon.
That could work too. There you go.
Someone is taking their love of dinosaurs too, too.
Far, yeah, There you go. Definitely someone needs to make

(28:58):
this happen. All right, I am now completely
lost here in my notes. Here we go.
Oh, Robert Kurtzman from K&B Effect Studio.
He's tapped to direct and he they originally approached him
to do special effects and he hadturned it down because he wanted
to direct the movie. He's like, actually, he says he

(29:20):
was a little bit insulted because he's like, give me a
chance to actually direct. And they did come back to him
and say sure. I think originally like a Jack
Shoulder who directed Nightmare on Elm Street 2 and would do
Wishmaster 2. He.
Yeah, the hidden. Which which in all fairness,

(29:40):
also led to Jason Goes to Hell and probably shocker so.
Dustin everything, everything leads to Jason Goes to Hell.
It's just one of the top three Friday the 13th movies.
So much. That movie just gets better with
every viewing. Like I ironically absolutely
adore that movie. You can go back and hear my full

(30:03):
throated defense of that movie in the archives.
Indeed. And it's a movie that KNB made
good, like the unrated version has one of the best body melt
sequences ever in a horror movie.
Yeah. I I feel like Kurtzman by this
point, he was still salty after seeing he's like, well, Stan

(30:26):
Winston, he got to direct a movie, he got to do Pumpkinhead,
where's my directing gig? And he finally gets it out,
which I just noticed we have notcovered here on the franchise.
So pumpy, he might be making a appearance on the wheel next
season. Who knows?
But but yeah, so interesting, Kurtzman, you know, this being

(30:49):
the one. But again, like you can totally
see in this that is, you know, like again, like, yes, it is,
you know, like, you know, is this movie like got like, you
know, a style and aesthetic to it?
Maybe not really, but it is, youknow, heavy on the effects and
the the attention that he gives them.
So I, I think I think Curseman does a a a fairly good job as

(31:12):
far as not being a director. Typically, where do K&B studios
like rank for you guys in terms of like the special effects
mavens of the 80s and 90s, like The Real?
And just to give you like a quick rundown of like some of
the films they've done, like they worked on Evil Dead 2, An

(31:33):
Army of Darkness. They worked on Day of the Dead
with Romero. They worked on Halloween 5 and
Tales from the Dark Side again with Romero.
They would do more mainstream movies like Misery, they with
Rob Reiner, they did the effectsfor Pulp Fiction with Tarantino

(31:55):
they have. Dances with Wolves, Yeah.
They have a ton they did that. They worked with Craven on the
Scream movies, A New Nightmare, also Vampire in Brooklyn with
Eddie Murphy. So like to me, they and they
also worked on like I think Goldmember, the Austin Powers
film. They kind of transcend like

(32:16):
horror in some ways. But I I have them like above
like a Savini overall in terms of like the capabilities, other
effects and maybe like a step below Rick Baker and Rob
Boutine, but like not far below like their stuff tends to be a
bit more cartoonish. I would say like they kind of

(32:40):
like lean into the EC comics monster kid in terms of like how
their effects come out. Oh, then years later, like Nick
Guitaro, you know, would go on to like do the groundbreaking
effects of like The Walking DeadTV series as well.
Like back in the 2000 tens as well.
Like they were responsible for the look of the zombies there.

(33:02):
But where do you guys rank? Like K&B, I mean, they're, I
mean, obviously they're up there.
And The thing is, I mean, I guess like compared to some of
the other names that you mentioned, you know, maybe don't
have as many like, you know, like specifically like iconic or
like creative inspired somethinglike a like, you know, like it's

(33:23):
like, you know, everyone knows Savini is known for his like
head explosions and things like that.
Like, you know, like it can be the their thing is they are
reliable and consistent. Like you always kind of know
that you're going to get really kind of solid work, not like
crazy over the top work or anything like the you know, K
and BS never been known as like,oh, they're like the crazy
splatter guys or anything like that.

(33:43):
Like, you know, they are, you know, but they they turn in
like, you know, very consistently, like great designs
that are not like overly lavish,but but are really good.
Like, I mean, obviously, like, you know, they're they're the
variety that they've done is really good.
I think. I'm pretty sure.

(34:04):
Didn't they do the effects on Splice?
I just saw that in theaters not too long ago and getting to see
that on film. The effects look so good in that
movie. Very underappreciated film.
Yeah. I mean, I think you have sort of
like a pantheon, I suppose. Like, I don't know, like
industrial light and magic. Would they count even?

(34:27):
I don't know. I put them in their own.
They're they're kind of their own.
Like on Mount Olympus. Yeah, this whole thing.
Yeah, or you know, like the Wetaworkshop or something like that.
But then, you know, it's that's something different.
I mean, they do make up effects as well as the thing.
So that's that's some of the things I'm thinking about.

(34:49):
But yeah, I mean, when it comes to there, yeah, I probably would
put like Rick Baker, Dick Smith at the top.
I mean, Dick Smith is a little earlier, more 70s, but still.
Dick Smith is sort of like the guy who paved the way for all of
these people and did it as well or even better with less

(35:15):
materials than some of them. So like when we talk about in
sports sometimes like the coaching tree where like sure,
head coach and then the coaches like splinter off and they're
coaching. So Dick Smith is like the trunk
of that tree, basically. Basically, yeah.
You know, Dick Smith leads directly to Rick Baker, who
leads directly to Rob Boutine and and then you have Tom Savini

(35:39):
who kind of leads directly to the K&B group.
So I, I think that K&B has surpassed Savini personally in
as far as their where they place.
I'd probably do Rick Baker, StanWinston, K&B.
That's probably my top group. For my part, I, I mean, I put

(36:04):
them right up near the very top,you know, pound for pound.
I think they, they've just got the longevity.
You know, Savini, he had that great flowering in late 70s,
early 80s, but then he was kind of out of it after Day of the
Dead. Rob Boutine, you know, I mean,
obviously everyone loves the thing.

(36:25):
You know, Rick Baker has a few really spectacular roles.
But these guys, they just kept going and going and going.
I mean, they do effects on movies you didn't even think had
effects like Dances with Wolves and City Slickers.
You know, they were doing big prestige movies like The Green
Mile. You know, they are.

(36:47):
They just, they kept going and and kept hitting these really
nice effects work in so many movies.
I, I, I mean, they're right up there with Stan Winston for me
as just like top of the heap. Yeah, and I think they continue
to work now like even in the genre, like they Nick Otero was

(37:10):
doing a lot of the work for the Shutter Creepshow series, which
to me is like one of my favoritethings on that whole network.
Like the second season of Creepshow on Shutter is perfect,
like from start to finish. And you get like the best 30
minute sequel to like Raimi's Evil Dead movies in that with

(37:31):
like one of the really fun half hours of like television.
But the other thing this movie is like probably most noted for,
it's the murderer's row of horror icons and character
actors that have like kind of made their bones in different in
different franchises coming across the screen.

(37:51):
Like does anybody want to run through just a couple of the
persons that make an appearance in here?
I mean, it's as we mentioned prerecording, Wishmaster is for the
boys. All the guys are here.
We got we got Robert England, wegot Kane hot or we got Tony
Todd, Angus Grimm. So I mean, as far as like again,

(38:13):
iconic characters. So it's interesting that again,
like they were like almost bringing in all these legends to
to again try to usher in be likethe gin wishmaster.
He's the next big thing. But look, he's he knows all the
homies, all, all the, we got everybody in this film.
So it's like an interesting tactic to to like again, like

(38:34):
really try to boost the, the, the kind of the, the clout for,
for this film. But yeah, I mean, so many, so
many people in here and it's really dope.
Again, just I think it's cool that the gin has taken out
Freddy Krueger, Jason and Candyman.
That's pretty neat. I loved the Pazuzu nod.

(38:58):
Yep. When I I caught that, I was
like, oh, there we go. Yeah, that was that was nicely
done. I am always there for for a Ted
Ramey and he's yelling at Joe Pilato of Choke on Him fame, you
know? You get, yeah, you get Joe
Pilato causing the whole thing, just like Day of the Dead, like

(39:18):
causing the shit to hit the fan.Joe, if you need someone to come
and fuck things up for everybodylike Joe Pilato, he is your guy.
Joe Pilato is definitely the guythat would be drinking while
operating a crane. Like it makes so much sense.
My only question. Is Joe Pilato like this?
Is I hate This is a hate fest from Devon and I on these Ford

(39:41):
Joe. My only question is how did
Bruce Campbell avoid being in this movie?
I seriously thought they would have shot him with a
tranquilizer dart and dragged him to the set.
Well, there's the like Reggie Bannister shows up for and I
kind of want like shut up Reggiebeen off with Reggie and George
Buck flowers with like the best scene of the movie with this

(40:05):
these two. There's a Cthulhu reference at
one point in the phrase that is used to capture the gin.
I made a note on one of these character actors on George Buck
Flowers. He's made He plays the like
drunk in this movie that like wishes Reggie Banister's
pharmacist to get cancer. And I'm like, I recognize this

(40:26):
guy and I feel like I've seen. Him I felt the same way.
This. Role before.
So I looked at his IMDb and he has about 160 credits all
together. He made a career of playing
these down and out characters that flip in and out of a movie.
This was only one of 19 roles that I could count where he

(40:47):
plays a character that's listed as either like a bum, a hobo, A
wino, a drunk, a vagrant. Like over 10% of his filmography
was basically play like a bum. Like so I don't know, like how
you get typecast is that most notably he was called Red the

(41:10):
Bum. Like that is his characters name
Red the bum in Back to the future, parts 1 and 2.
So well, and now nobody does that anymore because nobody does
that anymore because everyone's too hot in Hollywood now, you
know, like people used to have aa particular look and then be
like, all right, like, you know,we don't have anybody.

(41:32):
There's no hot bums in in the ingetting typecasted right now,
you know, So yeah, shout out to George Flower.
I thought he kind of looked likeyou a little bit like especially
in the scene where he's like cussing out.
No, I'm not saying that in like a I'm saying that as a neutral
statement, like it does like I could see you, you look like

(41:52):
this homeless vagrant. No, I'm saying I could see you.
I no, I'm saying I could see youcussing out Reggie Bannister
outside of his drug store, like in that role.
Like I'm saying as a neutral statement, if you're taking that
a bad way, that's on you. But I'm I'm saying as a neutral
statement like. I was going to say how?
Neutral it could be to be like you look like that homeless

(42:15):
Baker. I'm saying you look like the
guy's like a dirty piss. I was going to say the reason
about all these parts is he could take out his teeth.
You know, like once he takes outhis teeth, he has completed the
transformation before you even get him into hair and makeup.

(42:35):
He was, and I guess a lot of that was unscripted.
They just basically let him RIP and he would just come up with
like take after take of the mostprofane.
They just kept going because everything was gold.
Like I absolutely want a spin off with just him and Reggie
Bannister. I hope you die and float down a

(42:58):
gutter so I can piss on you justlike that is I wish I you know,
I wish I was in high school and had seen this movie because I
think that would have been my yearbook quote.
I think I would have tried to like slip that one past the
goalie. That was great.
In addition, like Vern Troyer appears in a pre Austin Powers

(43:19):
role. He plays the gin when he emerges
from the jewel, which looks amazing.
It does. It does look pretty nifty.
Jack Lemmon's son, Chris Lemon plays the curio shop owner like,
and I'm like, so I'm looking at this guy and I'm like, he looks
super familiar and like, oh, he looks like his dad, Jack Lemmon.

(43:40):
And this is a reminder that everybody should just drop what
they're doing and go watch The Apartment and The Odd Couple and
Glengarry Glen Ross and Grassy Old Men and all of these cause
Jack Lemmon was fucking amazing.When you say Chris Lemon, I
always think of that Mystery Science Theater 3000 sketch

(44:02):
where everyone's designing theirown playing cards and they make
the aid of Chris Lemon. I did not seen that.
It is just the most random choice of celebrity for that
ever, and it's the only thing he's really known for in my
head. Chris Lemon, A celebrity like
that seems like a a low level ofcelebrity.

(44:24):
I don't even know who you're talking about right now.
He did. ATV show with Hulk Hogan if I
remember rightly. Wasn't it Thunder in Paradise or
something like that? Oh God, I haven't, you know.
And I will admit, back in the 80s and early 90s I was a Hulk,
a maniac. Unfortunately, I'd never watched

(44:44):
Thunder in Paradise even like 15year old me.
I'm like, no, I'm out. Like this is to bridge too far.
Well, I mean when we're talking about the 90s being the golden
age of slashers and the 90s being the golden ages, the 90s
were the golden age of first runsyndicated TV shows.
Too true. Yeah, I thought you were going

(45:06):
to say the golden age of cocaine, but because it.
Was that would be 80. That was 80.
But no, like when I watched the CGI in this movie, I am
immediately transported to watching Xeno Warrior Princess
in my friend's apartment playingMagic the Gathering, you know?
Excellent. Yeah, this we'll talk about the
90s this 90s, this movie in a minute here.

(45:30):
Kurtzman talked about Deena Meyer being up for the role of
Alex and that would just would have been right around the time
that Starship Troopers and couldn't get her.
And now I want to see that. I love Deena Meyer.
This movie movie would be perfect if we had Deena Meyer.
Like, no, no shade to Tammy Lauren.
I mean, she's all right. But like, but but man, if we had

(45:51):
Deena Meyer, man, what a bummer.And you get a score from like,
Harry Manfred Edie, like who, you know, obviously the composer
of the iconic Friday the 13th score.
But he has like worked on hundreds of projects, continues
to work. So you have like this amazing
murderer's row of talent that isthere.

(46:14):
One to add, Jacques Hakkan is the cinematographer.
He did Nightmare on Elm Street. That's right.
Yeah. So like just killing it and Wes
Craven, even though, you know, it was supposed to be like a,
you know, presents by and then you would just collect a check
and he was on set. Like he actually worked with

(46:36):
Peter Aikens and a lot of the rewrites.
Peter Aikens, he cracked me up. And like in an interview he
gives her this movie where he's like, you know, people ask about
the lore of the gin and what youjust like.
I didn't do any research. I didn't really put a lot of
thought into it. He's just like, no bull.
I just wrote a bunch of bullshit, but it just happened

(46:57):
to be like really fun bullshit. Like, I kind of love that.
I kind of love that. He's like, yeah, I just kind of
made it up as I went along. Who gives a fuck?
Like, it's AB movie. We're not out here for
historical, you know, accuracy like his, you know, that might
inform some of the later Hellraiser movies that kind of
like who gives a shit, but I think it kind of works here.

(47:22):
What else did I have? Oh, the last thing I had was
just the watching the like interviews 20 years later with
like Andrew Dave off who plays the gin, who I still like.
I where do I know this guy from?It's another like that guy.
He played Mikhail on lost. He plays like the guy with the

(47:42):
eye patch. Yeah, on lost.
And when he gives this interview, like he had not aged,
like literally he had not aged in about 20 plus years.
He had a little more silver in his hair.
But hearing like his experience and Tammy Lauren, Tammy Lauren
discuss it, like how different they approach it.

(48:03):
Like Devoff is talking all about, you know, the approach
and the idea that, like, when we're under this mask, we don't
have to be our true selves. And we get into the art of
things. And like, who is this creature
in the whole like, art of acting?
Like he's really getting into it.
And Tammy Loren's like, well, I like the Exorcist, but horror,
like, I don't fucking care. Like, it's really not my thing.

(48:25):
And like, I'm going to these conventions now.
And I had no idea what to expect.
Like, were they all going to be a bunch of weirdos?
Luckily, they're lovely people, but she could not, like, give a
shit. Like, this was just a job.
Like the one thing that came across from like Tammy Lauren
when you're watching these interviews, like she really
wanted to fuck Robert Englund was the take away that I got.

(48:47):
Because like when you hear all the commentaries and in the
interviews, like she brings him up so much.
Oh, he was so lovely. Oh, the greatest guy just would
come and talk like, oh, and he'sso handsome.
And so like, like literally likelady.
And then she at one point she's like, yeah, I had just gotten
married and he was like, really interested to know where we were

(49:08):
going for our honeymoon. And I'm like, why?
Like, was he going to cut your spin on the honeymoon?
Like she hey, and and you know what?
Real real, because Robert Inglomlooks great in this movie.
So like like he looks great. He's, I mean, of course, Haiti
and he looks amazing. Yeah.

(49:28):
No, I mean, Deval, he's one of those guys.
He's like, you know, he, he still does like the conventions
today, you know, and it's like II really, we, you know, it'll be
interesting when we kind of get to, you know, why he didn't do 3
and 4. But but, you know, he, he
definitely still takes pride in,in the, in the character in the
role. And he should.

(49:50):
Yeah. He's fun here.
He's a lot of fun. This should really have led to
more work for him. I mean, I know he works
regularly. He's still working to this day.
He's still getting parts. But watching that evil smile he
has, He should have been taunting Bruce Willis in a Die
Hard sequel. He should have been facing off
against James Bond. He should have been a list

(50:13):
villain after this like Rickman in Die Hard, you know?
He, he looks like what I imagineSeth MacFarlane is going to look
like in 20 years when everythingcatches up to him. 20 years from
now, we're going to be watching like a behind the scenes
documentary on the making of Ted.

(50:33):
And you're going to have like a really weathered looking Seth
MacFarlane saying like, you know, Mark Wahlberg had in his
rider that everyday I had to busin kindergarten, it's for him to
beat up. And I thought he was kidding,
but he really wasn't kidding. I've seen some shit, man.
I've really seen shit. Like if that's what Devoff looks

(50:54):
like to me is like a scared, tired and humble Seth
MacFarlane. I don't know if anyone else sees
that or if that's just me, but that's who he looks like to me.
He also is a the star of the Call of Duty Black Ops series,
apparently playing Seth MacFarlane.

(51:14):
No, Andrew, No I'll. Tell you what he looks like to
me. Have you ever seen Sean Levy,
the producer of Stranger Things?No.
He has a smile exactly like SeanLevy, because Sean Levy, before
he was a producer and director, he was an actor who did Zombie

(51:34):
Nightmare, and he was the punk kid who drives the car who kills
the guy who becomes the zombie. And he spends the whole movie
with just this evil shit eating grin and you can't wait to see
him die. And it's the exact same smile
Divov has as the gin in his human form.

(51:55):
He is like the very definition of a working actor, like just he
has hundreds of credits and they're all like small little
roles. And you're right, I think John,
this should have led to some bigger and better things for him
because he's a lot of fun. I would say like more fun out of
the makeup than in. But we'll get into that when we
talk about the movie here, whichwe're going to do right now.

(52:19):
And I'll start with you, Devon 'cause you kind of have in your
notes how the Jinn is your homie.
So maybe that's a great place tostart.
Like why that is again, like I like the Jinns approach of like,
you know, he is this like immortal, you know, this moral
creature like I, you know, we get introduced again, like lore

(52:39):
straight out the gate. They're like, alright, let's hit
him with a page of text right out the gate of like how the
Jinns were born out of fire. And there are these creatures
that are in between the the spaces and their whole thing is
they send one gin out into the world and they're like, all
right, go out and get somebody to make 3 wishes so that way you
can free all of us. And that's like their whole

(53:00):
thing. So it's like, I like, you know,
that he only comes around every like few 100 years, you know, So
it's like he every time he like comes back around, he's like
updated on like what humanity islike, you know?
So like we see him in what they claimed to be 1125 or something
in the opening 1127. Yeah, the opening apparently

(53:22):
takes place 1127 according to towhat we see.
Again, it's like they're like trying to like build in like so
much like already to be like, OK, like the gin's gonna be
again. He's the next big thing, you
know? So like, let's come up with all
these different things. And like, you know, we weren't
really getting a lot of fantasy horror kind of in the 90s as

(53:43):
well, again, with all these kindof things.
So like, I'll run down the the the main rules and what the
Jinns trying to do here. So he gets put back in the
stone. So he's summoned by this Opal
and he can he can kill somebody by taking their and assume their
identity by taking their face, But so he can grant one wish and

(54:04):
for anyone in exchange for theirsoul.
And then of course he, you know,misinterprets it and puts them
in a deadly situation because hecan't kill but he can put people
in situations where they're going to die.
But his main thing is he needs someone to make 3 consecutive
which is the one that summons him.
So that way the Jinn can be summoned and take over the world

(54:26):
is basically his whole deal, which they couldn't allow to
happen because in the budget of this movie would have multiplied
astronomically. And they're like, we got to keep
this under 5 million. We can't be having multiple gin
roaming free at this point. Like not not good for the
budget. That's why it takes until the

(54:47):
4th film. Does the prophecy get actually
fulfilled? You'll have to wait and see.
I'll have to find out. I kind of feel like the Jin is
the original reply guy like that.
The thing about his thing about the way the Jin works is like
you make this wish and it's pretty innocuous.

(55:07):
It's things like, sure, I think I could use a change in career.
And the next thing you know, Tony Todd is like having to try
to escape from a Houdini esque trap without any sort of like
formal training. Like has it been to school for
this? No internship, like just really
thrown in the deep end. And I feel like the Jinn would

(55:29):
be the kind of guy that like yougo onto Twitter or blue ski and
he's like, well, actually. And he's arguing.
Like it's like you can see somebody's tweet above it, but
they'll try to argue and be like, no, no, like I know you
see it, but what I said was it'slike, no, like I love how his
very, very loose interpretation of what a wish is.

(55:51):
It's like people just say stuff like, yeah, I would like that.
And he goes, that's a wish. It's like, wait, no, like, like,
you know, I would like a ice iced coffee right now, but I am
not wishing for it. It's not like what I would waste
would waste A wish on. And I guess I'll turn to all of

(56:11):
you guys because I was thinking like, what would be you're
confronted with this, right? This magic genies in front of
you and he's like, make a wish and it'll make it come true.
What would be the wish you wouldmake and how would it come back
to bite you in the ass? Like what would actually go?
I think of like Homer Simpson inthat episode where he's like

(56:33):
gets that wish and he's like, what's the Turkey that's going
on the soundboard? He's like.
Turkey's a little dry. Turkey's a little.
Dry like that's going on the soundboard soon.
But John, what would be the wishyou would make?
That would seem pretty innocuouson the surface, but you're like,

(56:54):
oh, I've made a terrible mistake.
Well, I always think Terry Pratchett, he had a book called
Eric where the character wished to live forever and he got
transported back to the beginning of the universe.
Because living forever means living from the beginning of
time to the end. No skipping bits.
That would be me. I'd be like, Oh yeah, it'd be

(57:15):
great to live forever. And I'd find myself back at The
Big Bang going great. I got 4 billion years.
Oh, that sounds awful. That's my nightmare, that just
no books. Yeah, before the printing press
and. Printing press.
They wouldn't even be sick of the life forms.
The first thing OK, this is before the 1st this is I'm not

(57:39):
wrong. I'd be like, you know, this is
going to be tricky if I get imprisoned in the earth as it
coalesces into into a solid mass.
We are proliteracy around here, Mike, is that I love how that's
your number one priority of going back to the beginning of
the good book. You know, I feel like if I had a

(58:00):
really good book, it would help pass those 4 billion years, you
know, I mean. War and peace, you know?
Yeah. Really really good book.
You know Infinite Jest, it takesabout that long.
I said. A good book.
Yeah. Brian I.
I was thinking a lot about this and the one that I think is

(58:22):
probably most innocuous that actually I do think of from time
to time. I wish that I didn't have to
work. I could just stay home and watch
movies all day. Well, that would end up being,
you know, like Alex in A Clockwork Orange strapped to a
chair, lid locks on your eyes or, you know, either that or

(58:42):
like losing all of your faculties, arms and legs,
etcetera. Basically just being a brain
with eyes but no ability to process anything.
I was thinking, that's how we watching this.
Somebody made that wish. What's that?
I was thinking that's how COVID started.

(59:03):
Somebody made that wish. Oh man, it'd be great if I
didn't have to work and I could just stay at home all day
watching movies. Yeah, yeah.
Wish granted. Yeah.
Devon, what about yourself? No, I was actually going pretty
much like the exact same thing as Brian.
I was going to be like, oh, probably.
I'd probably say something like,oh, I wish I didn't have to work
and just all my like, limbs would just shut down at once and

(59:25):
I'd kind of have to. I'd have to scoot myself along
with just my chin with the rest of my body dragging behind me.
And that's the rest of my existence, I suppose.
Yeah, again, the funny ways thathe twists things.
I love the cane. Hotter one where he's like,

(59:46):
you're gonna have to go through me.
And that's something I would love to see.
And then the gin turned around. I was like, is that a wish?
That's a wish. And it's like, no, it's not.
That's not a yeah, that's the closest to a wish that any of
them make. And even that one, that's a bit
that's a bit, it's a iffy. That's a big stretch.

(01:00:06):
I would be in. Mine would be like, I would like
to eat whenever I want and not gain any weight.
And the next thing you know, I would be like the dude from
Thinner. Thinner like.
No matter what I ate, I would just waste away to absolute.
Nothing like that would be what would happen to me.
You're just eating. I I I just imagine you're just,
like, eating inanimate objects at that point.

(01:00:27):
Like, you're just like, oh, yeah, I can eat anything I want
and part of it. And then you're.
Yeah. Eating the first book coming off
the printing press. You know, now I've had it.
And I kill literacy forever. Like someone like when it comes
to like, yeah, the semantics of it all.
It's just what really, it's whatreally gets to me.

(01:00:48):
And the other thing that threw me off is like, dudes been
trapped in like a gemstone for millennia.
How does he know it only took Houdini 2 1/2 minutes to escape?
Like, does he get, you know, like Johnny obviously wasn't
related to your parents because he must have had cable in there
to find this out because how would he know this?

(01:01:10):
It probably just absorbs it. We didn't get a scene of Lilu
learning everything in speed in front of a computer, but I
imagine something like that. He catches up on things over
time. He just acted dumb in front of
somebody until they said I wish you knew what the hell I was

(01:01:31):
talking about and then bam he knew everything.
Thank you. I I was waiting for that.
Did it feel like shockingly easyto defeat him too?
Like I felt like exactly that's the that's the crazy thing.
He is so overpowered, yet it is so easy.
I mean, I I, I mean, I'll give it to to Alexis that like she

(01:01:54):
comes up with a very specific, you know, wish to, to defeat
him. Like, you know, she didn't go
too far back in time to like mess things up, but just enough
to just enough to fix things, but also still not like destroy
him forever to where he gets to come back for a sequel.
Like I like this moment when Kane hotter's like, you need to
leave and he has to like slowly walk away and he looks so angry.

(01:02:16):
He's like, God damn it like this.
It's literally a remic in sinners when he's like, all
right, we're going to walk away real slow now, in case you
change your mind that that's what the Jin did in that scene.
He was just like, walk away. Like, come on.
I, I, I just hope somebody makesa wish.
No. It it didn't bother me because
like I say, this is a movie you can see coming from the first

(01:02:38):
two minutes. Like, I knew from the jump that
it was going to end with her wishing that she had never freed
him and the movie just unhappening.
And so it was just like, oh, yeah, you know, that's what
we're coming down to. And it's just the ride he used
to get there. But she she goes, I wish Joe

(01:02:59):
Pilato didn't have a drinking problem and then undid the Joe
Pilato, the character in this. He was the catalyst for for it
all. It's kind of funny that he's not
the one that is charged with being the one.
I love how she's the one that islike the the one that
technically summons him but she doesn't.

(01:03:22):
Her friend does but then it's because she thought about him in
her mind and he's like no you are.
You're the one not not, not thisguy.
No, it's because how? It's because she rubs the gem on
her. Right.
Yeah, it's it's the classic way of freeing a genie is you rub
the the vessel that they're in. Oh my God, I didn't even think

(01:03:44):
about that. That's so funny 'cause I was
waiting for somebody to like make that joke in the movie
somewhere and been like, like, oh, like there's no mention.
No, no lamp joke in this movie. You know, I know that's a low
hanging fruit, but like, come on, Nobody made a joke about a
lamp in this movie. That seems like that would be
beneath Peter Aikens. Like I exactly, that's what I'm
saying. Like where, where's the lamp?

(01:04:05):
The humor? Like I will write a lot of
garbage, but making a lamp joke in a genie movie?
Like too far too. Far.
Far like, how dare you, Sir, I how dare you.
I wanted to point out to like Robert Anglin's reaction shot
when Ted Ramey gets crushed by the statue is so amazing.

(01:04:28):
He's so nonplussed by it. Like just completely like
there's no horror. It's almost like, Yep, we all
knew how Ted was going to go outcrushed by an ancient statue
containing a genie. Just like we predicted, this day
has sadly arrived. That that's one of the best,
that's one of the best jokes in the whole movie where she's

(01:04:50):
like, you know, I'm so sorry. And he says, yes, it was
irreplaceable, one-of-a-kind. And she's like, we are talking
about your assistant, right? And he just pauses for half a
second, goes yes, of course, of course.
Sure, you bet. You absolutely bet.
So while meanwhile Alex is just lusting over Beaumont, just
absolutely last thing that was would have been her wish, like

(01:05:15):
me, Doctor Beaumont, Alex just on a desert island somewhere.
That would have been Tammy Loren's wish if she could have
had her way. So we mentioned Hellraiser.
We've kind of danced around it like you can tell like if you
wouldn't. I know a lot of Hellraiser
movies like started as somethingelse and they're like what if

(01:05:35):
this movie, but we put Pinhead in it and give Doug Bradley
something to do for 7 minutes just to keep him occupied.
Like we if if Doug Bradley's notplaying Pinhead, bad things
happen when you need to keep himbusy less someone gets hurt.
I feel like the opposite might have happened here where it's
like this what is was like a Hellraiser script and like Peter

(01:05:59):
Atkins is like just forgot that he was supposed to write
something for this and he completely forgot.
He's like, oh shit, I got to turn something in by tomorrow.
So he just like erased Pinhead and wrote gin in every single
vine. Like find and replace.
Like if you told me that was thecase, I would believe it.

(01:06:20):
I mean, it's this is Hellraiser just minus the sex.
Really. If Hellraiser is Spencer's, this
is like journeys, I guess if I'mgoing to compare it to a mall
store, it's it's you know, something like that.
Like, yeah, it's similar, similar vibes, similar fun.
But like, OK, we're going to take all the all the the nasty.
Like you can, you can show your grandma A wish master.

(01:06:42):
You can't really show your grandma a Hellraiser.
You know, it kind of it kind of vibe.
But yeah, again, it's like depends on your grandma.
And in the series we'll do again, like the the third movie
that is terrible. It goes super lore heavy and
introduces all of these extra things.
But there's a there's a recurring bit that we'll see

(01:07:04):
throughout the series is how somebody gets the jewel into
their possession. It comes in many various funny
ways. But this one, I like that it was
like in the statue of the sorcerer that like casted them
away at the beginning. I thought that was like a cool
little thing, but then it increasingly convoluted ways of

(01:07:27):
people gaining possession of this jewel and then being the
the the Summoner here. But yeah, Alexandra just she
pulled a bad deal because she's the she's the top appraisal
person. I love how she's like talked
about like she's like a like celebrity hotshot is like, I
gotta get the the best of the best appraisal on here.

(01:07:47):
And she's just too good at her job, and unfortunately it gets a
gin problem because of it. Yeah.
So Speaking of Tammy Lauren, didanybody else feel like she was
cast? Not to to denigrate her
performance or anything, but shewas cast because she looks like
Linda Hamilton, right? Yes.
She does. She absolutely.

(01:08:09):
We, we, I want Linda Hamilton. We have Linda Hamilton at home
and it's Tammy Lauren and she's blonde, but but this one's
blonde, you know? It's still Linda Hamilton.
I promise. And and the same is true with
the folklore Professor and Shirley MacLaine and the Cop and
Denzel Washington. They were all like the store
brand I. Thought Kim Cattrall, like, I
thought she looked a bit like a.I'm like, man, Kim Cattrall,

(01:08:31):
like, she's aged gracefully. But you're right, like Shirley
MacLaine for sure. Yeah.
And she she she kind of has a little bit of not not she
doesn't look like Ashley Lawrence, but she's feels like
her like her steal a little bit just in like kind of the way
she's like her attitude and likeshe's, you know, very, you know,

(01:08:54):
kind of spunky. But I love how also just half of
her performance is her like appearing to have a migraine is
a good portion of just like the gin off doing something and her
just being like she gets to do aa good deal of that.
But she's not playing tennis, ofcourse.
What I like about this movie andlike, Arielle brought it up in

(01:09:15):
our slack and she's right. Like she's like, man, we had it
good in the 90s. Like we didn't know how good we
actually had it. Like everything was just like a
little bit looser, a little bit easier.
It like, I mean, we could do a whole show about like how the
90s was like the last really good, fun, safe decade we've had

(01:09:36):
and everything has gone to shit since the turn of the century.
But we won't do that. But one of the things with,
like, Alex's characters, you find out at the start of the
movie is her parents have died in this, like, house fire or
whatnot. And I feel like if this movie
came out in, like, 2017, that would have been her whole

(01:09:57):
personality. Like, that would have made-up
the whole movie. And like, fire would have played
much more heavily into it. Like, she's obviously like a
damaged character, but it doesn't completely define her.
Like, she's still out. Like, yeah, damn, my parents
died in a fire. But I got a tennis game at 2:00
and then I got like to coach a basketball girls at 4:00.

(01:10:20):
And then I got to go work for a couple hours, like, and then I
got to like fend off my best friends.
Like this girl is busy. Like this girl is on the clock.
Alex is just like, I love how she does all those activities
before going to work. That's the crazy part.
Like I'm just like, geez Louise,I'm like, aren't you tired?
Like you've had a full day already?

(01:10:40):
But I think that's also funny though, because the way that
that is her back story is introduced because it's like
after her the the guy dies, she she's blaming herself because,
oh, he was checking out the stone for me.
I blame myself. It's just like the time that I
couldn't save our parents and that fire.
And it's just like, wow, it's very soap opera, that scene, you

(01:11:02):
know, the the talk between her and her sister.
But but yeah. Phoebe Cates, let me tell you a
story about why I don't like Christmas.
And I'll tell you what the 2017 version of this movie would have
been. It would have been an extra hour
and a half and it would have been people questioning whether
or not the gin was just her untreated mental illness.

(01:11:26):
Oh my God, because we get that. Line about oh, don't let this
happen again, you know, you needto go to therapy before it
happens again. And I'm like, are we getting
psychological horror here? And no, no, we're not well.
We're just going to drop it in for a minute.
The other thing that dates this movie, like I got a smoker's

(01:11:46):
cough and I've never touched a cigarette in my life, but all of
a sudden like I can't breathe. I'm hacking up this black shit
out of my lung. Like what's going on?
It's like, oh I've just watched Wishmaster 3 times in like 24
hours. Like what was that?
Did you just wish that you want to puke up your lung?

(01:12:07):
Was that a wish? Like there was no catering
budget on this movie? Like the catering budget was
like Marlboro Lights and Camel Unfiltered.
Like that was our our two. Our joke for our work holiday
party is on the snack table. We'll have like all like the
different snacks and and stuff. And then we have a bowl just of

(01:12:30):
cigarettes for everybody becauseeverybody's getting drunk at the
holiday party. Everybody's having their drunk
cigarettes. I'm pro cigarettes, the the the
America's was ran on cigarettes.Yeah, we wouldn't be here
without cigarettes, damn it. So I love yeah that this movie
is just yeah, dedication to everyone smoking all the time.

(01:12:51):
But again, the I love the gin. I just love the gin like he's
like this is before he like takes a human form yet and he's
like still, you know, getting claiming some souls to get his
power back and picks up the cigarette from the the homeless
homie. And he's just like, oh, what is
this? I like these.
And this is a thing because the gin goes to prison in the next

(01:13:15):
movie and you know, cigarettes are currency in prison.
So he's having a great old grandold time.
He loves smoking. It's great.
What say you, Brian? Well I'm definitely going to
watch Wishmaster 2 now. I got to see what happens with

(01:13:36):
this so double feature with the Shawshank Redemption I guess.
Truly, it's nothing is better. The old SNL sketch with like
John Belushi, like the as the Olympic athlete.
And he's like, what gets me through like little powered
doughnuts. And he's got like a little

(01:13:57):
doughnut in his hand and he's like got a butt in the other
hand. Like nothing says like, what's
better after a long day on the tennis court and then running up
and down playing some hoop with some high school girls, then
like, you know, ripping back some lung darts.
Like really what? You know, I, I literally do that

(01:14:17):
every Tuesday. I after my volleyball game.
I'm like the first day after thevolleyball game, I'm like, this
is what the athletes in the 1940s were doing.
They finished their football game.
They they're having cigarettes on the sidewalk.
Night at 65. Exactly.
Hey, the vapes are gonna do it even worse.
That's my thing. It's not that I'm pro
cigarettes. I'm just cigarettes are smoking
as bad for you people? But they're not as bad as the

(01:14:40):
vapes and those are like a plague upon society right now
and they're not as fun when people are vaping in movies
versus smoking a real stressful cigarette.
It does look cool. I will say this exactly.
It does look cooler than like puffing on Ausb.
It's like that. I love the one where she's like

(01:15:00):
the scene where she's just sitting with it and her sister's
like, hey, enjoy it, what are you doing?
You're not enjoying it. And she's like, fuck, I'm not.
I remember Roger Ebert saying the reason why the 40s is the
greatest decade for American movies is because people had the
2 greatest props, hats and cigarettes.

(01:15:23):
I knew. We'd say hats.
Hats and cigarettes the and that's and it's true.
I mean just that you watch Casablanca.
I mean, I'm sorry, it's just notas good if if you don't have
Peter Laurie and Humphrey Bogartand every single one of those
people lighting up their. Apples instead if they're.
Just right, Right. They're always surrounded by

(01:15:44):
this haze and the floating smoke.
Yeah, I. Mean apparently this movie got
dinged in reviews for how much smoking there was like even for
the 90s or like that's somethingthey talk about in the
commentary in the interviews. They're like they couldn't
believe like people were like you shouldn't let your kids

(01:16:04):
watch this movie because of how much smoking there is like not
the violence like they said theydidn't really get any notes
because it's fantasy violence atthe end of the day.
But like the smoking in the movie, they're like that again,
a bridge too far. And I think they said Andy
Devoff, I don't think was a smoker.

(01:16:26):
They I think he says in the commentary he was using cloves
because he couldn't adjust to like the and you can kind of see
that when he smokes, like just the way he holds it, he doesn't
look like a natural smoker. But apparently what he would do
to like get like the because histhroat would be coated with all
of this like coke, the clove anda chemical.
He'd be like Downing Jelly beanson set and full like gin make up

(01:16:49):
like handfuls of Jelly beans. So basically like lung cancer
and diabetes is gonna be the I need it.
If some if somebody has a can track down a really good behind
the scenes shot of him in full gin makeup eating Jelly beans,
please send it to me. I want that framed because that
sounds amazing. I'm just picturing some, you

(01:17:11):
know, like PRC parent watching aguy's head get torn off by piano
wire while the gin smokes and laughs going excuse me, kids
should not be seen smoking like that.
Got to take that cigarette out of here.
Brian, if you have to do the DARE program, you need to make a
sign where it's like the gin with a a slash through his face

(01:17:36):
and be like smoking's bad. It's just a slash through Andy
Devon's face. Kids are like, who is it?
It's like he's the gin guys. John, you just mentioned like
heads getting ripped off. And I think like a good way to
maybe conclude is like the highlight of this film would be
like the special effects, like they really are the true star.

(01:17:59):
And it's like bookended by two scenes, like 2, like set pieces
of real pure chaos and an absolute fun.
And like, it's very violent. It's very bloody.
Things are getting ripped open, but you can't help but like sit
back and like smile. It doesn't like you said, Devon,

(01:18:19):
like it's not scary. You know, it's not like watching
the thing when you're like, thisis awful.
I would not want this to happen to me.
No siree Bob, like this is just like sitting back and watching
the masters at work. I find what the effects here are
just really great. Oh, I mean, it opens right up
with that guy's skeleton climbing out of his body.

(01:18:42):
And you're just like, oh, I'm, I'm in.
I'm here for the whole ride. Imagine going to a party and Oh
no, I got turned into a wood person and like what was going
on with that? Like person that's going by the
the the there's like a alligatorperson on the ground.
Like I mean this insane like thethis sequence.

(01:19:05):
I know where the CGI comes in. You'd he he'd know they didn't
have the budget for CGI, clearly.
Kane hotter death is Oh my God, so hilarious.
It looks so bad. It's actually not too bad
because it's like a that's like a fantasy death, so I I can
forgive that. Sure.
It's when he shoots the top of his head off like that's when

(01:19:26):
it's really bad like that is. Well, some of the things you you
got to remember. I mean, this is post Jurassic
Park. This is the same year as A Lost
World. So we've seen and frankly, in my
opinion, I don't know if CGI ever really got better than
Jurassic Park in a lot of ways. You've watched that movie and

(01:19:47):
the CGI still holds up. And that was 93.
And this sort of looks like the special effects, the CGI that
was used for like the adventuresof young Sherlock Holmes, you
know, or something like that, you know, so in the in the 80s.
So there's the very beginnings of that stuff, so.

(01:20:08):
You know, it's, it's fine. I mean, it is what it is, but
the it's the practical effects that really do shine though.
That's like 90 plus percent of the movie.
So I don't, I'm not going to digit.
Exactly. It's it's so it's so rare that
there's even that. I do like the Kane hotter Death,
you know, when he walks through him, just the morphing that

(01:20:31):
happens is kind of hilarious. So yeah.
Now what do you guys think aboutthe Jin's look with his like
little like weird tentacle things that he has drooping.
He has these like kind of weird like teeth and claws and stuff.
And his his animation sequence when he like goes from the small

(01:20:52):
to the big version is really dope.
Yeah, I like that he's sort of vaguely devil looking, but then
the horns are kind of like against his head, but they move
and they're more like tentacles.Is is a really cool variation on
that idea. I like that a lot.

(01:21:12):
I think, you know, the contact lenses are very Sith looking.
He looks like he's about to turnto the dark side, which, you
know, I love that. And yeah, the teeth are nice.
The teeth are really nice. They're not just pointed.
They're like filed. Yeah.
Yeah, it's really cool. I kind of like, I kind of wish

(01:21:36):
he wasn't in makeup for more of the movie.
Like, I kind of like him more when he's in human form, to be
quite honest. Like there's just something
about and I think a lot of that is just because I think that
Andy Devoff has a very unique look on his own and he's able to
like give a really good mischievous look like, and I

(01:21:57):
kind of like dig that, like thatplayfulness.
I do like the scene where he's like hooded and he's kind of
like walking through the university campus and everybody
like he's trying to hide himselfand everybody is like stopping
to look they're like so he can'treally hide what he looks like.
I thought that was pretty good. What I really like the one scene

(01:22:18):
I I wanted to mention like and it's kind of is part of his
character is like when he is disguised as the professor.
Yes, right. And she keeps like, do you want
some tea? Do you want something to eat?
Like and I she like touches her hand and, and and it's like, oh,

(01:22:39):
are you, are you, are you cold? Do you want me to turn the heat
on the heat? Like, part of the Jinn's nature
is like he has to be the perfecthost, you know, because the
whole idea is to do, you know, and I don't know, like, did that
turn? Like, was that trying to get her
to wish? Like, yes, I am cold.
I wish you would turn up the heat a little.

(01:23:00):
I mean, yeah. It was so funny.
I love Alexandra's reaction. She goes, why are you being so
courteous to me? Is like, fucking hilarious.
But but that's the whole thing is like, you know, obviously
you're saying like you want to see the gin out of makeup or out
of the makeup more. But that's, you know, they just,
they lucked out on casting Divov, you know, because they

(01:23:23):
they baked in this, you know, power, power that they have that
they can swap faces and interpretate or impersonate
people. So it's like the the gin wasn't
meant to have a one human form. So it's like it doesn't even
really make sense that when he comes back in the second one,
it's just like the gin just liked that form.
And that's the only reason we have Andrew Divov even in the

(01:23:45):
second one, because that's not really supposed to be.
Yeah. Well, I was going to say you,
you say it. They lucked out with Divov, but
I really liked Jenny O'Hara whenshe was the Jinn.
I love the way that there's thatjust little pause where she's
like, why do you keep asking me if I want?
And she just stops and realizes,oh shit, I'm in the room with

(01:24:07):
the gin. And then you get that great
speech about, Oh yeah, no, there's no way to stop him.
You are completely without hope.Didn't you realize that?
And she's. Tiny 20th century brain.
Yeah, she's like pretending to be offering advice, but she is
really telling her you are so fucked.
And you know, Alex in turn is going oh shit, oh shit, oh shit,

(01:24:30):
I got to play this cool. I got to play this cool.
Yeah, I thought last thing I have is that I thought Tony
Todd's character was going to get away because that scene goes
on for so long. And Tony Todd Todd is just, he's
just cool, you know? So you think he's going to be
like, dude, go # sand. And like that would have been
the one of the iconic villains, like the guys that play a

(01:24:55):
villain that like survived. But sure enough, like he should
have rushed into the party like soaking wet and been the one
that saves the day. He just shoots the Opal.
That's what you get for fucking with Johnny Valentine.
He still. He still has one of the best
lines of the movie. The name's Johnny Valentine, You
tell him in the hospital when they ask you how you lost your

(01:25:17):
eye. So I'm going to introduce myself
to everybody from now on. You should do.
You should do. Do we have any other thoughts on
this movie before we wrap it up?I, I, I love me again, like
because I like how with all thisbeing like lore heavy and the

(01:25:38):
fantasy and everything that like, I'm a sucker for when the
climax isn't about like the, thelike big action one.
I like the, the matching, the, the out trying to outwit each
other kind of nature. Because she like does like end
up making a wish. But then she's like, well, OK,
I'm going to do this on purpose,knowing that if I fuck this up,
that, you know, the fucking world's gonna end.

(01:26:00):
So Alexandra has a lot of faith in her verbiage abilities to to
just risk humanity on her being able to out out with this
asshole. But it's really funny.
My sorry, my favorite gin line reading is during this like back

(01:26:24):
and forth showdown whenever the gin is like kind of giving up on
like trying to like, you know, manipulate her and goes all
right, you know what, fuck it ifyou can't beat burn them, baby,
all right. Yeah, I don't have much else to
add. You guys have covered it quite

(01:26:45):
well I'd. Say fuck it.
I think fuck, it is where we're going to end things.
Sounds good. For today.
So let's wrap up with some plugs.
John, thank you for joining us. And if you want to let listeners
know where they can find you in your show, now is the time.
Sure. My podcast is called Half Price
Horror. It is horror review rating.

(01:27:08):
Well, let me start over. My podcast is Half Price horror.
It's horror analysis, recap, allthat kind of stuff.
The trick is that everything I Icover I have to have found in a
half price bookstore. So I only cover physical media
and it's all potluck right now I'm going through Colcheck, The

(01:27:29):
Night Stalker, the 70s TV show, and you can find me on Blue Sky
as Half price horror, Tumblr as Half Price horror, pretty much
anywhere you find social media or podcasts except for Twitter
because good Lord is that a dumpster fire now?
Yes. It is Brian.
How about yourself? Well, continuing to work on my

(01:27:53):
Frankenstein series, the first half of the parodies piece, or
actually it's going to be third I guess because I'm doing a
stand alone piece on Young Frankenstein that'll be coming
up eventually. So that just dropped on Manor
Vellum couple weeks ago. Then stuff on Bloody Disgusting

(01:28:13):
as well from time to time, But working on recording episodes
for a new podcast with Pat Brennan called Holy Terrors.
Like we mentioned at the top of the show, it looks at horror
through the lens of faith, religion and spirituality.
And yeah, it's shaping up to be an interesting show.

(01:28:35):
And yeah, we're going to start seeing if we can get attached to
a network and get it out there real soon.
And you can find me are pretty much any social media place at
Brian Waves 42 and I'll post updates about that as well if
you're interested. Excellent, Devon, how about

(01:28:57):
yourself? You can find me at all places at
Under Score Daddy Disco on Blue Sky Letterbox Instagram.
You can hear my new podcast Smoker's Cough analyzing all the
best cigarette smokers in cinema.
But you can hear my main podcastSpectre Semi Club.
Every Tuesday we are covering films focusing on score,

(01:29:19):
soundtrack and sound design. Brian will be on to talk the
Changeling here pretty soon. Yeah, we have some really a good
lineup over there. And you can hear me on Tinted
Love every other Wednesday. We just dropped an episode on
Bones and all with an episode onDavid Cronenberg's Crash coming
up, and that is at Tainted Love Pod at Spectre Cinema.

(01:29:41):
And yeah, excited for the rest of this series.
Excellent. Well, folks, you can find us at
pod on the pendulum.com where all of our back episodes are
listed. You can also subscribe from
there to any of your favorite pod catchers.
We are on Blue Ski Pod and Pendulum, and we are over on

(01:30:03):
Instagram at the same as well. I think like this team here
knows I'm not a big social mediaperson.
Like I basically got scolded by a couple past guests for not
like actively promoting their appearance enough.
And that's more less to do with them and more to do with like I

(01:30:24):
just don't really enjoy a lot ofsocial media.
But you can find us there because we have to be on it.
And I'm over on Blue ski at Mike's Union and on Letterbox.
They do update all the time at Mike Jump change and that is it.
Again, make sure you're subscribing to
usbecomeapatron@patreon.com/POC Pendulum.

(01:30:48):
We will be back next week with Wishmaster 2, which I'm looking
forward to diving into. But until then, light them up if
you got them and just be carefulwhat you wish for I guess.
Take care, everybody. I wish for a Turkey sandwich on

(01:31:21):
rye bread with lettuce and mustard and and I don't want any
zombie turkeys. I don't want to turn into a
Turkey myself and I don't want any other weird surprises.
You got it. Hey, not bad.
Nice much much good bread turkeys a little dry.

(01:31:44):
The turkeys a little dry was David from the depth of How
Created me.

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