WISHMASTER 4: THE PROPHECY FULFILLED

Mike, Ari and Devaughn find their last wish is granted with a shockingly solid entry to close out the Wishmaster franchise. With solid performances all around and frank discussions on sex and romance, the mental wear and tear of caretaking for a disabled loved one, and a Djinn that finally says, "Maybe I shouldn't be such a dick if I want to actually get my plan to come to fruition" all three of us enjoyed this one. No existential crisis this week dear listener.

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Episode Transcript

(00:35):
None. Hello, everyone, and welcome to
the pod and the pendulum. We are the horror movie podcast
that covers all the franchises one movie in one episode at a
time. And today we are here to rub
that lamp one more time. We've got you know, we've made
some wishes, not all of them have come true in the way we've
wanted, but we think 4th time isa charm.

(00:57):
Charm. We are here this week to talk
wish Master the prophecy fulfilled.
I am here with my two lovely Co hosts.
Up first she is the author of Millennial Nasties out now an
audio book. Miss Ariel Hellraiser Ari, How
are we? I'm so good.
Thanks for for we we're putting another franchise to bed today.

(01:21):
It's always. You really are tucking it in,
singing it a little lullaby, a little good night, putting a
little kiss on the forehead and nighty night.
But also with us, it's the birthday boy himself, the reason
we're here. The man who who makes wishes
come true. He is the Co host of the Specter
Cinema Club and tinked in love. Mr. Devon Taylor.

(01:42):
Devon, what's up? Hello hello, I am back because
just like a homie in two, I madea wish to get tore up from the
floor up which resulted in me being on the floor of my
bathroom puking. So that's the reason I missed
the Wishmaster 3 episode. Devout listeners of the pod know

(02:03):
that I typically do. I'm usually various degrees of
hungover when we record because I'm a bartender.
I work Friday nights, we record Saturday mornings.
It's just inevitable. But like this was, I was in very
rough shape after a weekend of birthday shenanigans.
And you even planned for this? You're like, hey, can we not
record Saturday like Saturday? And we did, yeah.

(02:25):
I'm like, yeah, we plan for. Things I'm like that actually
works better it. Still wasn't enough.
And I'm like, let's even move itlike 2 hours later in the day.
And poor Devon was like, guys, I'm really sorry I'm on the
bathroom floor. It's like dude, rest up like we
got you, don't worry. And.
This was the one I wanted. I wanted to because now I have
to wait until you guys put the episode out to hear about your

(02:48):
suffering through Wishmaster 3. I would say we didn't suffer
through. It we didn't.
Mind it. Yeah, it was OK.
It was a movie. Like honestly, like our thoughts
on it was like it was a movie. It had a beginning, middle and
end, which is not. That's more than some movies we
cover on this pad. It wasn't like the wrong 2 wrong
turn movies that I despised thatlike morally offended me and

(03:11):
shook me to my core like I was offended to sit through.
I will say the Angel came out offucking nowhere and I was very
confused. I wish for the Angel, Michael.
Like, what's going on? Like, come on, girl, what are
you doing? Yeah.
This is a bit weird so, but listeners can go back and hear
our full thoughts on Wishmaster 3 as well as a bunch of other I

(03:35):
did have an existential crisis midway through the episode that
probably you had to talk me down.
Part of the episode is just Mikespiraling.
Yes, like that is the and I don't think that's necessarily
due to Wishmaster, no. And you're leaving that in,
You're choosing to leave that inthe episode.
Of course we are. That's the fun bit.
Like that is the like, like Ari,you said something in the

(03:57):
Nosferatu episode where you're like, well, like, I won't go
into this. It's like a personal stuff and
that stuff is boring. I always find when I listen to
podcasts like depending on the host, like if I really like the
host, I like the personal stuff because like you feel like you
get to know them. So I guess maybe it depends.
I would like to think that our listeners like me and they like

(04:21):
these bits of me, but maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe we'll. Find out Release the spiral cut.
Release the Spiraling Cut. So Devon, we are granting one of
your wishes today because there are no notes in this episode.
Once again, we're like just kindof going free form here on the
Wishmaster movie and seeing how we do.
So let's that's how we learned. We were today days old when we

(04:43):
learned that Sean Connery's kid was the Jinn.
We learned in real time. Anyway, Devon, what were your
initial thoughts on Wishmaster 4?
Yeah, Wishmaster 4 kind of similar, actually very similar
to with the Wrong Turn series where I hit my low after five,
you know, and then 6 was like this like weird surprise and it

(05:05):
was also a psychosexual drama. Yeah.
And then similar here three, I hit my low.
I was just like, Oh my God, 3 isawful.
Like listeners, I did still watch and take notes because we
were supposed to actually recordthat like another another time.
So I I did still do my diligenceand actually take notes on
three, but I was just like, Oh my goodness, it put me just in

(05:27):
the ground. So like for this one to be
another just like fun bounce back that like kind of catches
you off guard. And I don't know if it's because
the movie is actually good itself or if it's just following
something that was I just like, 'cause I give, I give three O 1
star. Like I was like, that was like,
I, I could not stand that one. But then this one, I was like,

(05:48):
OK, I was like, you know, they, they took some notes and then
we're like, all right, like let's try to ingrain some of the
stuff from the previous two or the 1st 2 films and bring that
in. I feel like them casting Michael
Truco was them trying to find a division off type guy.
Yeah. And he's actually really good.

(06:10):
Yeah, yeah. He's a working actor type guy.
He pops up in a bunch of stuff, a lot of TV.
I remember him from How I Met Your Mother, but.
Which one is he and How I Met your mother?
Like what's different? Is he in that?
He's like super. I think he's like, he's like
early on in like seasons like one through 3 and he's like one
of Robin's boyfriends. Because he doesn't stick around

(06:32):
for a super long time. No, yeah, he's, he's one of
Robin's like kind of on and off boyfriends in there, but like
one of the like few, like kind of somewhat serious.
He had like a little, he had like a little run in there, but.
Battlestar Galactica, where he plays like Starbucks husband,
like he's like a like a rugby player that like it's stranded

(06:54):
on a planet and then is rescued and then joins like the
Battlestar fleet and he's reallygood on that show.
I recognized him from Midnight Mass, so he's all over the
place. Yeah, he plays like the mayor
character, like the all shucks guy with a mustache in Midnight
Mass. Interesting.

(07:15):
Oh, that's that is true. That is also true.
What was it about 3 that you hated so much?
Because you were thinking like 3was going to break me and I'm
like, that's fine. What is it about 3 that you
really hated? I mean, three, it's like we
introduced kind of this random sleaziness that like wasn't in
the previous ones. It also it it even feels even

(07:38):
more like a Hellraiser RIP off than the previous ones.
Like it kind of is really leaning into that.
And I mean, it's just like it, it's structured very weird.
Like the gin doesn't pop up until like 33 minutes into the
movie. And it's like, so it's like we
have so much of that stuff then beginning and like, and it
really comes down to like, again, it's not even John Novak

(07:58):
who does the gin. It's the it's Sean Connery's
fucking son. And that one, he's awful as like
the human form of the gin and the final girl also isn't good
either. So just like every everything
about that and it just, I don't know, it, it just it's
structured just super wonky. And then just like, yeah, all
the extra, I mean, we kind of gointo more fancy stuff in this

(08:21):
one too, but I feel like it works better than it does.
And in three, I feel like because 3 came out a year after
Dracula 2000, where in that filmthey make Dracula spoiler guys,
Dracula's Judas in that film. So I feel like that's where they
kind of came up with the Angel Michael stuff.

(08:41):
Maybe who, who? Who knows?
And they also try to make like they give like the Jin some
action scenes too. That's also awkward and weird.
So yeah, I don't know. 3 is justa failure on all aspects, but
it's just like it has no energy.It has like, no, there's just
like there's no purpose to it. They're just like just like,
what are we? It's just a.

(09:02):
It's just there and I. Think we describe it as like
they're running around, like it feels like an empty campus for a
lot of it. It almost feels like they were
sneaking around and if you told us they didn't have permits for
a lot of the shoot, like, we wouldn't be shocked.
And it's I don't know. 'Cause like AJ Cook who plays
like the lead in Part 3, like whenever we're like, I'm like,

(09:26):
yeah, she's never been anything else.
Oh wait, she's the lead in like Final Destination 2, AKA the one
that everybody loves the most. And she's done like a lot of
she's been in like Acbs, like CSI show for like 300 episodes.
Like she's gone on to have a pretty successful career in

(09:48):
she's like tapioca pudding in that Wishmaster movie.
Like, she's so boring. But yeah, I could see see that.
So so when when it comes to herewith four, I mean four, dare I
say, has the most cohesive plot and like with actual like themes
and like like emotional arcs in it.

(10:09):
Like like comparatively to the rest of the films.
This also the gin as far as racking up his horror icon cred,
the only horror icon to be in his own porn parody, because
this movie is horny as hell. But but again, it's like all a
part of it and it again, it likesexual desire wishes.

(10:32):
I was like, OK, And I'm like, I just find it.
I just found this one very hilarious.
So it's like, OK, is the prophecy gonna be fulfilled?
And then you're like 40 minutes in, it's like, oh, it is gonna
get fulfilled. And it's like, wait, he has to
fall in love if it. And I was like, OK, we're really
doing this. And I found all of that.

(10:52):
I found all of it really fascinating.
I was like, because they set it up really well with the lawyer
and and Sam and Lisa, they set it all up really nicely.
This like already like kind of sexual tension and like kind of
questionable things. It's like I was like found
myself thinking I'm like, is Lisa already cheat on?
Who knows, there might be like back story we don't even know

(11:14):
about. And then the gin just like kind
of falls into this situation because in three, it's three.
It's funny. He accidentally like picks a a
professor and it's like, oh, this professor is like a creep
that sleeps with all of his students.
So like nobody likes him. So it's like he has no leverage
with that professor versus here he falls into a interesting
situation where he does have leverage and gets the wishes

(11:36):
super fast. But then he's like, oh, but now
I actually have to fall in love and like actually seduce her.
And I was like, we're doing it. And I was like, why not?
I was like again. 4th, 4th entries of series are always the
most fascinating to me. Well, it's kind of like the B
monster movie version of Hitch. And that like in this one, like

(11:57):
the gin catches feelings like the gin is gone for millennia.
Just trying to like, you know, not seduce people into making
wishes so that he can free his brethren.
But now for the first time, likethe Jinn has been seduced in
terms of like he's like caught feelings for Lisa and now he
doesn't quite know what to do. So when you think about it like,

(12:19):
you know, it's really like a, a,a Will Smith jam of some sorts,
but. Our master 4 Bros before hoes,
yeah. There you go, Ari, what are your
initial thoughts on Wishmaster 4Bros before hoes?
I I loved this movie. I thought this was so fun.
It's my favorite of the series. You could just watch this one

(12:43):
honestly and be fine. Maybe watch the first one as
well 'cause that's fun too. But like, this is your entry
point. They're doing philosophy of love
and sex in this movie. They're diving into like some
pretty heavy philosophical topics about like, what does sex
mean in a loving relationship? And I would actually love to get

(13:06):
Nicole's thoughts on this movie because I think in her day job
she works with, yeah, 'cause I think she works with caregivers.
And I know that she works for with people with disabilities.
And so there's like caregiver burnout in this movie and like,
you know, so much resentment in the relationship, but she's

(13:27):
still trying to make it work andhe's pushing her away.
I was like, you could frame thisdifferently and have it be a
drama, but it's also really funny because the Jinn is funny.
And I I thought this jinn did great.
Michael Truko. I I loved him as the Jinn.
It reminded me of beauty and thebeast as well where like the
beast has to be loved in his beastly form for the magic to

(13:52):
work. And M1 of the things you and I
talked about when we recorded the third episode was OK.
If the jinn needs someone to make 3 wishes, why doesn't he
just grant them and? Not being like not scaring
someone off after the first wish.
'Cause then they'll make 3 wishes really quick.

(14:12):
Slick here. Yeah, he's so slick.
He takes our advice and he triesjust granting wishes.
I thought the same thing. I thought like, she's like, I
really wish they would settle the case.
He's like got your back. And he does it in a way like he
doesn't call like the other lawyer in and then freak her
out. Like because I feel like

(14:32):
Givoff's chin would have had that lawyer like appear out of
nowhere. And then it's like we saw that
like with the ass fucking scene in Part 2 where like the
prisoner had to like literally watch his lawyer like, you know,
like fuck himself in the ass. And then he was completely
freaked out. And this gin.
So my thought is like the third gin is definitely a different

(14:56):
gin. Like it's definitely a baby gin.
It's not the same. It's I know it's like not just
like it because it looks different from give off, but
also like when he grants wishes,they don't have that same kind
of like playful ironic tone to it.
It's more, oh, they're going to fall in love with you and then
eat you. It's like, OK, there's no real
irony there. You just created beautiful

(15:18):
zombies here. This could possibly be Divov's
gin, but it's gotten maybe a little bit wiser.
It's like I got to take a new tactic.
Like, you know, like what I'm doing isn't working.
So maybe it's not them, it's me.So he's like, I'm going to try
something a little bit slicker. I was, I was looking up many

(15:38):
threads of what people thought about, you know, if each gin is
a different 1 and I'm, I'm coming down on, I think all four
of them are different gins. And here's why.
Because because even between 1:00 and 2:00, the design of the
gin form is different, sure. And the gin form in two still
looks like the gin form in threeand four.

(15:59):
But they are like different colorings though, because the
one in this one is like, has like a bluish green to his like
tentacles and like shoulders versus the earlier ones have
like have like a more red. And then and, but also think
about though they're, they're this race of gin and they, and
when one is summoned, it's like,OK, you have to get this done

(16:20):
for all of us. Do you really think they would
keep sending somebody if they kept failing at it?
You know, so it's like, so I think of it and it's like, OK,
in gin world, they have like a, a ranking list or something.
They're like, all right, if thisperson fails, who's the next
person to go try to fulfill the?Privacy and they.
Send somebody else. This is kind of like the horror

(16:42):
version of It's a Wonderful Lifewhere Clarence needs to get his
wings, like he needs to come back to Earth in order to help
Jimmy Stewart at the beginning of the movie.
So like, yeah, the jinn are justlike the demonic version of the
angels. Like, in order to get no, not
get your wings, but unleash hellon Earth.
It's like you're right. Like next one up like go.

(17:02):
There were me and somebody failed and they were like, all
right, give me another run. I'd be like fuck off.
No, you had your run like you couldn't get it done.
So like, but send somebody else.So like so I I I'm of the
opinion I think they're all different.
Yeah, I like that. Yeah, so I really enjoyed this.
Like, I'm with you, Ari, in that.
And and Devon, I thought this one was a lot of fun.

(17:24):
And you would kind of like warn me.
Well, not warn me. You'd said ahead of time like
you're going to really like thisone.
This one's a pretty good time. So I popped it in like last
night for the first time and like, definitely having Michael
Trucco in like, it's someone wholike, you know, like recognized
from a couple of things. I'm like, oh, I like this
performer. Like already ahead of the game
at that point. And then the opening scene is so

(17:45):
goofy and ridiculous that I'm like, all right, I'm already
charmed by this a bit. And then Trucco is the jinn, you
know, is very close to being like on par with Divafi.
And he doesn't try to mimic whatDivaf does.
Like it's a much different performance.
Like he's not going to mimicry and he's going for something

(18:08):
like a little bit slicker, almost like a little more tech
bro is like what I would describe him as like that's kind
of the energy that he gives off here.
And I found that really enjoyable.
And I found that, like Tara Spencer as Lisa was like a
fairly interesting protagonist as well.
Like I think we're going to talka bit more about her.

(18:29):
And definitely, you know, I found like Sam like a very big
wet blanket. And there's a complaint I had.
I'm like, I don't believe he really like earns that kind of
like hero's arc that he gets at the end of the movie because
he's like just kind of the worstthroughout the whole thing.

(18:49):
There was one thing I found really clever.
It's an edit in the movie where at one point he 'cause he's in a
wheelchair, he's like, well, youknow, if you need to be alone,
you can just go upstairs. And the next cut is like,
Michael Truko, like walking up the stairs.
And I'm like, that's pretty clever.
I really think that that made melaugh.
But yeah, like, exactly what we said, Ari, you know, like, if

(19:13):
you want to get those gin on Earth, like, grant those wishes
pretty damn fast. Like, what are we doing here?
And he does it in a way where hestill does his thing, where he,
like, really fucks with people. Like, when he grants the wishes,
it still causes a lot of mayhem.But Lisa doesn't see it.
And I think that is, like, the trick.

(19:35):
Like, that is the she's not evenaware that a wish has been
granted. It's completely kept from her.
So I kind of dug that, Yeah. Yeah, I don't know this again
like in the fact that they actually like this one has a
tone to it. Like it has the again, it like
is they really lean into this like sexiness throughout and

(19:56):
it's like, you know, like the setup is kind of funny.
Like it's like, oh, let's yeah, let's have some break the bed
missionary to open the movie. But at the same time low, they
keep it though it's not. And again, like it doesn't feel
just like random sleaziness likeit did in three.
They integrate it in. And like again, like even though
like Sam is like, yeah, he's very annoying.

(20:17):
Like it's like, I get it. Like, because again, like you
want to feel like the sympathy and like, you know, for somebody
that like has a disability and how that affects their sexual
confidence and stuff, like you want to empathize with him.
But like man, like it's like, oh, this is how he's been for
three years. And just like pushing everyone
away. They're just making assumptions,
just like trying to stir the pot.

(20:37):
Nothing for himself and. Like it just, yeah, like, I
mean, he really like goes hard. So it's like, but I mean, again,
I mean, like, I mean, as far as like earning a hero's arc, I
mean, he dies. So I mean, he throws himself out
there. So I mean, I guess like man,
like, you know, it's not like helike got to save the day and
then him and Lisa are gonna livehappily ever after.
So at least they kind of go thatroute.

(20:58):
But like this like this, you know, this sexualness is like
very interesting. Like the the scene where it's
where he like grants the second wish, where it's like there at
dinner, the gin and Lisa, they're at dinner while Sam's at
home and he's learning to walk again.
But then they're having this like sexy dinner and there's the
sexy dance going on. And there there's a recurring

(21:20):
thing throughout the movie when the gin gets horny, he lights a
fire randomly somewhere, which is super funny.
Like off to his eye. It happens like 3 or 4 times.
Like whenever they have sex, it happens whenever this happens.
But like and then he grants one of the waitresses wishes where
she's just like, I wish somebodykissed me like that.
And then she just gets like mobbed with kisses from the

(21:42):
restaurant and like she doesn't die like she just gets a bunch
of kisses. So like he just like is like in
that scene. Story of Morgana the Kissing
Bandit. So it's kind of awesome the
opening scene, like you come to fight, you think it's just OK,
like be movie sleaze like you said at the beginning, like, oh,

(22:02):
we're just like throwing some TNA right at the beginning.
And Sam is like really going forit.
Like you don't typically see this level of exertion in a sex
scene in a horror movie. Like he's like really trying to
bring the Thunder in this scene.And then you're like, well, why
is that? And then you find out like a
couple scenes later, Oh, why that is like the the physicality

(22:26):
of that makes sense because likethis is a person that like takes
a lot of pride, obviously. And like his appearance, his
stamina, like in being like veryable to perform.
Like it's very important to him to be able to like please Lisa
sexually, not just so he can getoff, but like he wants to be
able to get her off as well. And you can kind of see that the

(22:48):
one thought I had was like, thisis like, they just bought the
house, right? Like.
Well, that's that's not. Their furniture?
Like what? That was the thought I had.
There were sheets and covers on that bed that had been there,
dusty, crusty for who knows how long.
I'm like, I don't want to me, you know, like they're just like

(23:08):
I'm like. No, I don't.
I don't mess with. Pound in someone else's bed and
that's that's not good. I don't yeah, I don't fuck with
pre furnished homes or anything.That's just inviting a curse.
And yeah, the MPAA, if this would have went tried to go to
theaters, they would have cut that scene to shreds.
That's way that's way more than three butt thrusts that we see
from our boy Sam. But that's also like, yeah, it's

(23:31):
like it's all, it's very interesting cuz like Sam like
cuz it is an interesting conversation when you talk about
like the sexuality with disabledpeople, cuz like there's other
ways you can have sex, obviously.
And he just hasn't been able to accept that part.
And like, again, like you said, like move on from like the like
he's like, no, it's about like the, the, the big passion for me

(23:52):
versus. But it also highlights like kind
of how selfish it is because like it's actually a lot easier
to make a gal orgasm with your hands and it is with your Dick.
But he doesn't know that. And the gin also doesn't know
that, which is hilarious becausethey fuck and then he goes,
okay, so Lisa is in love with menow, right?
And it's like, no, Gin, that's not how it works is so funny.

(24:14):
So they kind of have these parallel of journeys through,
you know, what their idea of sexand love means.
That's why my top line note for this movie was dump both of them
like Lisa, just go be by yourself for a while.
No, Lisa's going to go work on herself.
I think she should. Sam definitely struck me as a

(24:37):
big the Clint is a myth type of guy.
Like that is definitely. Especially in the early 2000s.
Oh God. Boy howdy.
Yeah, that's just definitely theenergy that he gave off.
Part of it was just like the openly looking at like other
women on the Internet in order to get.

(25:00):
Himself. That cut was so weird.
Like when? I wasn't sure what he was
looking at because it didn't seem like it was like a it
wasn't like a pornographic website so much as it looked.
It was like a it said like a voyeur.
It said it said like voyeur's site.
So I'm assuming it was like probably like a webcam thing
where like someone's performed to a webcam and he just like

(25:22):
watches. Sure is what I'm assuming that
kind of was. But then I love how also won't
be like big like climax scenes of this film is in a strip club.
But again, for actual plot reasons and has implications.
It's not just because they wanted to shoot in a strip.
Like it actually has this whole thing of Sam, after he learns to

(25:42):
walk again, he goes to a strip club and that's when him and the
gin have their confrontation. And the gin, it just like
finally is like, all right, I'm dropping the shit.
Like I'm going to get rid of this guy.
So she falls in love with me. And it's like, this is going on
at the strip club. I love this.
Ari, my question for you is, is there any better way for you to

(26:03):
like lose a guy than for him to like constantly push you into
the arms of another one by like being a Dick?
Yeah, I don't know, like I was like, girl, he wants you to
leave, just leave his ass. But obviously she feels bad too,
because, yeah, it's super complicated having a loving and

(26:27):
sexual relationship with someonethat you're also caring for
medically. I mean, there's tons of support
groups in literature about that.And so I think, you know, Sam
makes some comment at some pointthat like, she had to bathe him
and like wipe his ass and stuff and like she still wants to have
sex with him after that, but like he doesn't feel right about

(26:48):
it so. And then the whole settlement
thing too. Yes, they're waiting on the
settlement from his accident. They bought and renovated a
house together. When the house is falling apart
at the end, a little piece of mysoul fell apart because I was
like, Oh my God, all that renovation work and it's all
gone to. Like the scene in Mother
whenever the the sink brace finally breaks and then the

(27:11):
whole house falls apart. That is so fucking stressful.
Yeah, so Sam is a big old wet blanket and and Lisa should dump
him. Yeah, it's it's, I understand
the self pity to an extent because like again, we talked
about like he takes a lot of pride in his masculinity and his

(27:33):
like being strong, being able toprovide for Lisa in a lot of
different ways. And then that is taken from him
in this accident. It's not just that he's had
three years to cope because who is it for me to say how long it
would take to cope for somethinglike that?
Like it's not for me to say that, but it's more the people
that are doing things for him. Like the non ginned version of

(27:56):
Steven is not the gin version ofSteven.
Like you get the impression thathe's kind of a kind of like very
passive and he's like doing thisout of the kindness of obviously
he's in love with Lisa, but he'slike, well, she's not going to
be with me. I'm not going to do anything
about it. He says like I would like a

(28:18):
chance. Like if he's going to keep
pushing you away, I would like to be an option.
And that's about as far as it's really going to go.
Like that's him trying to make his move.
But he's also like going up whatseems to be like a very hard ass
lawyer. We're in charge basically.
Like he's like, I'm not taking anything from this for this

(28:38):
settlement. And like Lisa is there every
day, like showing up for him time and time again, cooking,
cleaning, providing for him, trying to provide emotional
support. And he's not even turning up for
any of these meetings that are meant to be for his benefit.
Meaning like, hey, we're trying to get your settlement, OK, you

(29:00):
should be there. He can't even be half assed
about it. And then when Verdell shows up,
he's like, I'm just going to sithere and insult you.
Like, yeah, you're my lawyer that I hired.
I am going to be like belligerent and rude to your
face because that's who I am. I'm hot.
I'm just going to be hostile. When it's the, it's the one
where he goes, it's the one where he goes, oh, well, I can

(29:23):
sign still. It's the one thing I can do.
And it's like, oh, you mean you can't have conversations with
people? It would be crazy talking about
a guy. If we tried to sign and his pen
broke and he's like can't even do that and then that would be
amazing. But then.
Men will literally wait for their legs to be healed by a
supernatural being instead of going to therapy.

(29:45):
Yeah. And I'll, I'll take issue with
that. I have a lot of men in therapy.
Like most of my clients are men,they put in the work, They work
really hard. We're in 2025.
This is 20 what, 2002? In this one, he definitely is
going to do everything else. He'd again, as we see, he'd
rather go to the strip club thango to therapy, which, hey, that

(30:07):
can be therapy in a way. So also I'm not.
I'm also not knocking. That listeners, They're good
listeners. And shout out to that dancer,
holy shit her performance was incredible.
And the line of the entire moviefor me is the gin talking to the
bartender in this conversation. It's actually a funny

(30:27):
conversation because it's like in the context of desire in the
club. But then the gin is like kind of
like getting like modern day philosophy on just like desire
in general and like what that means now, because again, like
I'm always fascinated that the gin is like you.
You can tell all the general like, even though they like
spite the humans because they are in this like void or
whatever, they're also fascinated with like the state

(30:50):
of the world and like the way that they interact with each
other. So like I like him getting, you
know, that's very real. You know, you want to get the
lowdown of of the scene. You talk to the bartender.
So I like how the gin is doing that.
But then homie, whenever he's like, I'd sell my soul to be a
pimple on her ass and I was likedamn right.
And then and then that's excited.
The gin gets as soon as he says it.

(31:11):
He's so pleased with himself. And he says something like enjoy
the view or something like that.It's.
Really. Do we?
Did I miss it? Like we never see him as the
pimp? No.
Do we? No, we don't.
I thought that was very odd. Yeah, but I guess it's just for
us to imagine. That's just like what I bet he's

(31:32):
like. What is he?
He had pimple on the inside of her ass or something.
Watching the view of the I don'tknow.
Who knows? I thought that was it's still
just very funny. That's that's my feelings about
Lisa because she be she got thatcake.
I will hand it to Lisa. I understand why the gin is down
bad and why Sam is upset. He can't, you know, do his thing

(31:54):
proper. So that's how I feel about Lisa,
is what the bartender said there.
I do enjoy that, you know, especially like there's so many
discussions now about is sex even required in a movie like
this? Why does this movie even need to
have sex in it? And you know, Devon, you do a
whole podcast about sex and sexuality and horniness in

(32:17):
movies and like why they're so essential because like, to deny
that in cinema is like to deny an essential part of ourselves.
Like, even if you're asexual, like you're choosing to be, you
know, like saying like, I'm, youknow, sex is not that important
to me, but that is still a choice regarding sexuality.
I like sex is such an important facet of our lives and it's

(32:40):
important part of our character and how we express that.
And I, I do appreciate the fact that like these are adults
having adult conversations aboutit, not just within the context
of like romantic love, which is what we see with like Lisa and
Sam in particular. Like Sam very much equates like
being able to be like a romanticpartner with being able to also

(33:03):
be a sexual partner, which is maybe lessen.
And although Lisa says it's lessimportant, I feel like maybe
she's more worn down by Sam's pushing her away than the lack
of sex. But I think that also weighs
into it as well. But then you have her friend
Tracy, who was like, if you really want this girl, what you

(33:24):
really need to do is give her great sex.
And she's like, I haven't had great sex myself in the longest
time. Like, everyone's really boring.
I would give anything right now for really killer sex and it
it's such a frank, open, honest conversation that I think would
like blow the minds of a lot of people today that adults are

(33:48):
talking about that in such a frank and open, honest way.
I mean, it goes, it goes both ways because yeah, I'm totally
going to make Zoe watch this onebecause it definitely would be a
candidate to be on the show. But it's because, yeah, like the
IT can go both ways. And the fact that it's like
here, OK, like we actually do have like reason because again,

(34:11):
it is like I'm baked into the like narrative and like the
emotional arts in this. Or you can just have sex because
it's just there because humans fuck.
And that's what like we do. It's like I I it's the same
thing as like, you know, if somebody says like, are sex
scenes necessary? I'm like, OK, are eating scenes
necessary? And then it's like, yeah,
because people eat. So of course.
So it's like, I mean, it's you know, you can, it can be with a

(34:34):
point to it or it cannot becauseit's just also like, I don't
know, it's just like, what are the people in movies?
They're not human. So it's just like, I don't know.
But like here, this is a great example of again, a movie that
is a AB movie straight to DVD, you know, type of film that
doesn't need to explain itself for the sleazy sex scenes,

(34:55):
because as we kind of talked about the wrong term movies,
they're just going to be there anyways, because that's just
kind of what comes with the territory and who's watching
these films. But at the same time, this film
does go the extra mile to actually have some very
interesting conversations about sex.
So so it it again, this movie goes harder that needed to
literally and figuratively. Hey, O.

(35:19):
Yeah, I, you know, and I'm a fanof unnecessary sex on screen,
unnecessary violence on screen. But it's also great when it
serves the plot. And it's really interesting to
see, you know, what feels like avery 90s horror movie with a
very 90s villain, tackle the topic of sex and love.

(35:40):
It's fascinating. Yeah, I would agree with that.
Would you say 90s as well, Ari, do you think that we talked
about with Part 3, this does have a very big like syndicated
television feel to it as well, like the way it's shot, the way
it looks, the I think the special effects for some of the

(36:02):
practical or a step up, but doesit kind of have that kind of
made for cable TV look and feel to it as well?
Especially when you introduce the hunter.
So we haven't talked about it all yet.
Oh yeah, he's here. He makes slightly more sense
than Michael the Archangel. Slightly.

(36:24):
So He's sort of like an extra bonus villain and hero villain
that gets unlocked when the third wish is made and he's here
to try to stop the third wish from being granted.
And he's just a generic MPC looking guy with a sword.
Magic swords are what you need for a gin.
He's he's handsome for sure, buthe's just sort of like.

(36:45):
And a very deep voice. Yes.
So he shows up while they're trying to figure out how to
grant the third wish, which Lisacan only grant herself because
it's falling in love with the gin as he is, which is
ridiculous and I love it. And so then we get some action
scenes between the hunter and the gin, which amounts to not

(37:06):
very much because the ginger kills the hunter.
And I'm kind of like, did we need this at all?
Like it didn't really feel very high stakes, but I guess maybe
in the universe there would be sort of a counterbalance in
magic. I don't know.
It felt like the movie is 80 minutes.
We need to get it to 90 if we'regoing to show it on like Sci-fi

(37:27):
at 2:00 PM on a rainy Saturday to fill a 2 hour block with
commercials. So I have some an additional
theory because so so Witchmaster3 and four were filmed
back-to-back and back-to-back same guy.
And so I have in my mind that this is the movie he was
interested in doing, but he had this two movie thing and the

(37:49):
cause the third is like where weget more, you know, introducing
into the fantasy elements. So like, I guess like that is
like, I guess what else that Criss Angel is into, not the
magician, but the director of this movie.
And so I don't know. So I guess maybe it was some
leftover ideas from three that he like, like maybe like Mike

(38:11):
said, just kind of pat the runtime a little bit.
But at the same time, it does make sense that we haven't seen
this because we haven't seen anybody get to the third wish
before. So it's like, Oh, well, yeah,
that does make sense in a way. It's interesting that he's
trying to kill Lisa. Yes, which then and then that's
when the gin feels more protective of Lisa and that's

(38:34):
when the other gin homies are like, hey, we see you catching
feelings, man, and he's just like, no, what are you talking
about? I just have to protect the Waker
and I will kill the hunter because and like you hear them
like talking shit. So like apparently this gin and
the hunter have met before and they have some beef, you know.
So I think it's also like funny and this like kind of weird

(38:55):
machismo like type of thing thatthe gin is grappling with where
he's got his gin Bros in the back clamor and, you know,
calling him out and stuff. He's got, you know, Alpha Chad
hunter in his face now and he's like, and everybody's just like,
why can't you just get the wish of the the prophecy fulfilled?
And he's just like, I don't knowwhat love is.

(39:16):
It's it's all very, it's funny. Like, I love it.
And when Lisa's driving away, I have to say she does.
She's in a Ford Bronco, too, andthat Bronco takes a jump like a
champ. The suspension on that thing
absorbed that shock, man. I was like, holy shit, look at

(39:37):
that little cargo. I was going to say like the most
exciting chase in a Ford Bronco since OJ absolutely iconic, you
know, and then you get shades ofPart 3 where you have like
another like SUV like just tipping over, you know a.
Crash Crashing a car. On one just loves his like car,

(39:59):
cars flipping over and like for the hunters kind of like
catching up with the Bronco, like all she needs to do is like
drive straight really. Fast.
He's good and he's like able to catch up because she just can't
seem to figure that out. He's got that like Captain
America speed, you know, he's probably like got that super
soldier like, ah, that what? He needs to like I was so

(40:22):
disappointed in Michael. Literally the Angel getting in a
car in the third movie. I was like, why don't you just
Angel your ass over there? Again, better than a bus.
Like still better for the subway.
It's. The hunter needing to do
practical things like can't he just teleport himself?
I don't know the. Rules.

(40:43):
I like when he's, like, walking around the little shop, kind of
like checking out, yeah. Just fucking up that Woman's Day
and. She's like, how can I help you?
I also wonder though that maybe because I have a theory, because
in this one the gin is not in the gin form nearly as much as
he is in three. So that means John.

(41:04):
Truco, you need to kind of get that.
Well exactly. So that means John Novak was
probably very bored during Wishmaster 4.
So he asked for the hunter plot line specifically so he could do
a sword fight is my theory because he cuz he's really not
in gin form a ton in this one comparatively to three.
So he's like, well, if I'm goingto sit in this makeup, give me a

(41:26):
sword fight, damn it. And then Criss Angel's like Nah,
sure, why not Like that's again theory.
Also my also another theory I want to throw out is with this
gin struggle to get Lisa to fallin love in these things.
I love the scene where she does like make the the third wish or
whatever whenever I wish I couldlove you for who you really are.

(41:50):
And he gets hit with this like trauma like this, like camera
like spins, and he goes the third wish and his like face.
Do you think he was getting trauma flashbacks to like a a
gin that broke his heart in gin world?
And then he's like, Oh my God, anything but this, because I
love the way he describes it. He goes human love, miss be

(42:10):
given freely. It's a trap.
Only a wish can grant it. So what?
It's a trap. Thank you at a Burl Akbar.
God damn it. And so I feel like he has some
some past love trauma as well that makes this extra difficult
for him. Cheers my Ari.

(42:33):
Has this ever happened? Where?
Like has has a has a Jin ever tried to make me fall in love
with him? Has that ever happened?
Not to my knowledge. I have a couple crappy exes but
they didn't grant any wishes. So totally changing the topic
here from myself. Something I noticed is that

(42:54):
Tracy the her shop owner friend,she mentions Mercury retrograde
and that comes up so much culturally right?
So many movies. It's all over TikTok.
People are like Mercury's in themicrowave again.
Do we as a culture owe that to the Texas Chainsaw Massacre?

(43:16):
Like, is that the first time culturally that phrase was
uttered? I wonder?
Like I know Mercury retrograde is a real thing but like.
In like a movie. I wonder.
It's definitely one of the earliest I can think of and like
it in actually like having like kind of like a big significance
to it, yeah, you know. There there was a really dealing
with like hippies. I mean, when was Easy Rider like

(43:39):
1969? I don't know.
You know, you weren't really, you were dealing more with like
motorcycle riders. I mean, it's funny seeing this
in 2002 because I mean, currently I know at least 6
Tracy's in my life. I could go call them up right
now and get readings from all ofthem.
You know, she, she's a very relatable character.
Actually. She's really funny.

(44:00):
And again, and I think that kindof plays on because we saw them
do that in some of the earlier movies where it's like they hint
at certain things that like havestemmed like from mythology and
it's like, oh, well, it actuallycame from the jinn.
So like, you know, there could be something about that, Like
is, does Mercury actually go into retrograde?
Or does that mean a jinn's out and about trying to grant

(44:22):
wishes? That's when you had Canon.
Every time. What does Mercury's in
retrograde even mean? Oh, I don't know.
OK, it's a it's a, it's a astrology thing.
It's like when I get stars line up into a certain area.
OK, so but like it's like peoplelike kind of it's like kind of
now become like with people kindof getting more into it, it's

(44:43):
become like the explain away as to like, oh, when Mercury and
retrograde, everything's weird and things, things happen.
And that's like kind of like my yeah, explanation for stuffing.
And like, that's just kind of how astrology works.
Yeah. Pam explains in The Texas

(45:03):
Chainsaw Massacre that Mercury is sort of a malevolent force,
and it being in retrograde magnifies that.
So like extra bad? I don't know.
See how that movie played out for people Tell us.
I would say that, yeah, yeah, Mercury.
Mercury was in fact in retrograde for that fivesome

(45:25):
that day. So it's it's referring to the
the planet Mercury and certain times of the year, just because
of the various sizes of revolutions, it appears to move
backwards across the sky becausewe move at a different like
rotation than Mercury does. So every like 3 years it looks

(45:47):
as if Mercury is going backwards.
And during these times is when is traditionally associated with
confusion, delay and frustration.
Yeah, according to this website to the Almanac.
So getting back to strip clubs, yes, I wanted to ask about the
confrontation that Sam and Steven have because I think

(46:11):
that's fascinating because I think, you know, I've mentioned
before where Sam, but I this is where you start to see Sam have
a little bit more of a backbone where like Steven like Sam is
like going there because like you feel like he says, I can go
there and not feel like I'm a patient, which is not the best
coping mechanism. Don't endorse it.

(46:31):
And it's really hurtful to say that to your partner who after
three years of like waiting on you and helping you out with no,
not really thinking this was even going to be a possibility.
Just doing this with the idea like there's no end insight,
then to immediately push them away, like not a good look, but

(46:53):
for him, like for Steven to say,like, basically, I'm going to
tempt this person by putting like one of the most beautiful
women in the city in front of him and say like, she's yours if
you want, just say the word. And then him saying like
anything you want to offer me, I'm not going to accept that
it's coming from you. Except for that $10 million

(47:15):
settlement that I'll take, Sir. I don't want anything you have
to give me. I love how we work. $10 million.
I love how he words it in a way as if he somehow knows that this
is a jinn because he is like doing a real good job of not
wishing right. Like like like, like Sam is
really speaking to a way in the jinn.

(47:35):
You see the jinn's like his eyesand he's just like, come on, say
it, say it. And he's like, fuck, he's like,
I can't get I don't got an in. And it's like as if it's as if
Sam knows on some level, becausethat was some real really good
auntie wish talking. They do like Sam.
Here. Sam, he has no reason to talk to
Steven the way he does. Really.

(47:57):
Like it's kind of messed up withSteven to be like, hey, you
should cheat on your girlfriend so I can have her.
Like that's weird, but. Like say that gives him a reason
to. But that's not where Sam is
coming from. You know, like, we know that
Stevens the gin, but Sam doesn'tknow that yet.
And so instead of being like, hey, like, stop trying to steal

(48:22):
my girl, he's like, I'll take you down on my own terms.
I don't know. Sam's motivations are totally
fucked in this home. Don't know so.
Weird knows if he still wants tobe with Lisa at this point,
right? I think he wants to take down
Steven, but that doesn't necessarily mean he if he knows
he still wants to be with Lisa. Like those two things can be at

(48:45):
odds with one another, if that makes sense.
Well, we see that because like once the settlement goes
through, he's just like, OK, like I'm going to give you half.
We don't need to be together anymore.
And it's like very silly becauselike instead of being like, OK,
hey, like let's figure out like,you know, like how we can use
this money to like make our situation better and enjoy each
other. So it's like, and then when as
soon as he gets legs, his or notgets legs, his legs start

(49:08):
working again instead of being like, instead of like.
Don't laugh at me, Mike. But I love the way you put that.
That's just. But then once that happens,
instead of like, OK, here's my opportunity to like try to
seduce Lisa. He's like, Nah, I'm going to
this, I'm going to the club and getting a real lap dance.

(49:30):
Instead. It's like, bro, like these are
you have your moments, like these are your ends.
So it's like it's very hard to come down on Sam that again,
like the only thing that he's able to do at the end is just be
like, I got to sacrifice myself now.
Because like he has multiple times of redemption even after,
like, you know, even before he realizes like how bad things

(49:50):
have gotten. So again, like on that level,
that's not even Sam versus the Jinn or like Sam trying to
protect Lisa. That's just Sam versus fucking
Steven the lawyer. Yeah, you know, there's, there's
I don't even think Sam knows what he even wants because he's
like picking on Lisa about how they don't have sex and then she

(50:13):
puts on sexy underwear for him. And he seems sort of interested
in that. But as soon as Steven interrupts
that, he's totally off it. But so then I thought the moment
his legs work again, he's going to jump Lisa's bones like
they're going to go up to that bed and break it again.
But he goes to the most look, not touch place on the planet,
the strip club instead. And I'm just like, he needs to

(50:37):
work out what exactly it is thathe wants.
I wonder how much fear there is there.
I wonder how much like even if his, even if he's able to
perform again, how much fear or anxiety there might be like
performance anxiety there might be around like what it would be
like. Like will he, I hate to say,

(50:59):
will he still know what to do? But I think you kind of get
where I'm coming from there. How will he react to like
physical sensations again? Like will he have like some sort
of emotional breakdown because like he is like not been able to
express himself this way or feelthat connection with someone in

(51:19):
so long and he's going to leave himself in like such a
vulnerable condition that he's not comfortable putting himself
in Again, I think I am asking a much deeper question than anyone
in Wishmaster 4 was thinking when they wrote this.
But the movie raises these. Questions.
Yeah. I think it does.

(51:39):
I think it's smart to do so, yeah.
The section also gives me an interesting because I were
recording this, you know, and during Pride month.
So if I'm gonna make my, if I'm gonna make my queer stretch
theory in this one, it also comes in this.
But it's the scene afterwards where so Sam, like, you know,
denies him, doesn't make a wish and he leaves.

(52:01):
And then so the gin, his next thing is to go, OK, well, I'm
gonna piss this bouncer off and get him to beat me up.
He has this, like, weird masochistic kink here.
But then I also like the, the exchanges between them because
like, hey, like when you think of gins, I guess, like, you
know, they are a little zesty just in general of like, again,
there's like this power play andwish fulfillment and things like

(52:23):
that. And it's like, you know, the
gins are what we'd call service tops in the, in the, in the sex
kink community. And there's, so I think there's,
I don't know, there's something to that because, hey, he, even
though the gin does tend to takemale forms, as far as we know,
gins are just kind of, they're their own creatures.
They're their own genderless form because they can take a

(52:45):
female form if they wanted to. So I don't.
Know for those who aren't familiar with the server terms
of service top, if you wouldn't mind explaining to our
listeners, because my understanding is it's like a, it
is like the dominant, but they're not dominant in that
they are choosing what they they're not really getting like.
Basically you are going to a topand saying these are the things

(53:10):
I would like you to do to me to infect pain for my pleasure.
Where is a typical top is more. I am going to get to choose what
I do to. You well, it's not always about.
It's not always about pain or dominance either.
It's it's it's really about. But that general idea is that
you're providing a service rather then like they are going

(53:30):
to you and saying do this is what I would like for you to.
No, I mean kinda it's it's very much a lot of listening yes.
It's like basically I want to get you to get to your peak
pleasure by whatever you want, but it's me providing that.
So it's not always about just like a like a dominance or even
like a even in like pain play. It's just like it's really just

(53:53):
like like saying, hey, I want togive you as many orgasms as
possible. You tell me what I need to do to
make that happen. And that's kind of a little bit
more what it leans into. So, so the gin at some point
again with this, this kind of wish fulfillment kind of leans
into that. But then I just found the like
dialogue between him and this bouncer like super funny.

(54:14):
One of those bouncers just like,wait, what?
What do you mean? What is my wish?
Like, what the fuck are you asking me, guy?
And then the gin's just like, Ohyeah, I do want to grant your
wish. And the bouncers just like icked
out by him. I thought it was really funny.
Really wanted the bouncer to getit out of there unscathed.
I was so disappointed when the bouncer was like, I wish you'd

(54:37):
put up a better fight. And I'm like, you were so close.
You were so close. And then, you know, you get the
true gin form. It's like that was a bummer
because like the gin gets a good.
And to your point, what you weresaying before, Devon, like the
gin is kind of learning about like human interactions and what
makes them tick. And that's why I found like the

(54:58):
conversation between like Stevenand and Gin form and Tracy very
fascinating because he was kind of learning like, what would it
take if like I want Lisa to loveme?
I don't know what to do. What do you think I should do?
And she gives him like, what seems like really good advice.

(55:20):
And then he kills her. It's like, oh you asshole.
He can't help himself. He just.
Yeah, well, himself well again, he he tried the one tactic.
His first tactic was like, oh, I'm going seduction, I'm gonna
fuck her into loving me. And he goes, OK, that doesn't
work. And then so then he goes to
again the next like male, toxic male, like ideas to be like,

(55:41):
well, I'm gonna be the ultimate provider then.
So then he's like, OK, I'll do. That for just a minute, I'm
talking more about the conversation with him and Tracy,
just like him going to her for advice and her being able to
like, because he's still learning.
How do we interact with this? Speech.
Oh, Tracy, not Lisa. Yeah, sorry.
I do also like how all the othergin are half melted popsicles

(56:04):
like that was. Just heckling him.
They're like the freaking came out gallery.
They're like bro, what's up? Like they're they're all and
they cannot help. I got nothing.
I'm done. I'm.
Tired. I'm sorry.
I feel like I'm like jumping toomuch.
So no, no. Don't worry, but let's jump to

(56:28):
the end. Let's because you know you were
the end of this movie. It's the Beauty and the Beast
part of it where he's like, thisis who I am.
And again, if the Jin is guilty of anything, he's guilty of
saying I love you too quick. Like poor Lisa is like just get

(56:49):
it over, relate a long term relationship.
She needed an outlet. She got that outlet and he's
like, I love you. Let's move in together.
And she's like, what? That's crazy and tries to like
get some space. That's how I kind of read how
this movie ends, or the start ofthe ending of this movie.
Well, I, I get I'm confused on the Jinn prophecy Lord, because

(57:12):
like, OK, if he already killed the the hunter, then like what's
the rush? Like obviously, yeah, y'all have
been waiting for like thousands of years.
But like, like what would be wrong with like if like they got
together and he's like, OK guys,no, listen to me.
If you give me at least a year, we can probably fall in love and
then move into just give me one more year.

(57:32):
It's been, it's, I know it's been like thousands upon
thousands, but just give me one year, you know?
But no, he's just like straight after sex.
He's like, do you love me? Do you love me?
Because he doesn't know any better.
Right. It's like he said in the second
movie when they put him in the hole, he's like, I've done worst
time or whatever, he says. Like I've done thousands of
years or whatever, like so. Yeah, that gin would have

(57:55):
waited. Yeah, like just take your time
because yeah, the good point, Yvonne.
Like after the Hunter's dead, there's no external clock that
they're up against. I think the other gin forces
hand though because they start breaking down like you said they
start which is very. Short sighted of them.
Yeah. Everybody calm down.
Seem like the most forward thinking race this gin.

(58:18):
Wishmaster 4 Everybody calm down.
Yeah, Bros before hos. Everyone calm down.
The gins are They're a little. Booty be poppin.
Wishmaster 4 Booty be poppin. It reminds me a bit of in the
Labyrinth, King Jareth, the Goblin King, where he's at the

(58:39):
end, he's like, Sarah, you can stay with me.
We can love each other. I'll give you everything your
heart desires. Like all you have to do is love
me. And similarly, you defeat the
Goblin King with specific words,and you can defeat the jinn with
sort of nonspecific words. But I was like, this is very

(58:59):
Labyrinth right now. When he's trying, he's like in
his real form and he's trying totalk her into loving him.
I hear what you're saying too about the toxic masculinity part
of it that like I will provide for you forever because that
comes with a condition. Like it's not unconditional
love. Like I will provide for you

(59:19):
forever as long as you agree to stay with me no matter what, as
long as you agree to put up withmy bullshit no matter what.
And I think like, as we know, it's a drop.
Like you have to like be able toset boundaries and you have to
be able to like, say, I'm not going to put up with your
bullshit in order to love you. Like, you can't just do that.

(59:41):
It seems like on the surface, like a really good deal, like I
was. Trying to do the oh, you'll be
my queen and you'll get everything and you'll never die
and all these things you'll never get sick and like, but you
got to do it with me though. And just like wedding vows.
Yeah, and you get rid of that wet blanket, Sam.

(01:00:03):
Yeah, I don't know. See, if it was a more
progressive gin, he'd be like, hey, like, you know, I'll be
your, I'll be your primary. You can still be Polly.
You can be open. Go do your own thing.
But he doesn't quite think that far ahead.
You know, again, he. Still learned like so much work.
But that was in the 2000s again.So it's like in if it was a

(01:00:23):
modern gin, modern gin would have figured that out because
now he'd be like, oh, like, you know, this is how things work
around here. But it was too early to get that
personally. Against polyamory, however, if
my wife's not around to do something, the video games won't
play themselves. You know, like the idea of like
getting ready for another date and planning that and then going

(01:00:45):
out and doing stuff like that's so much work.
And you got a date with your controller, I get it.
I got to play with my joystick. Devon is pretty much what I'm
saying. I love how the gin Bros were
also like super horny and they saw the gin getting it on with
Lisa and then they put their like gin hands behind him while

(01:01:08):
they're like fucking shit and they were like come on, we won
in on this too man. When when Sam wished like I want
to know how I want the thing that will kill you and the jinn
was like granted and he gets thesword.
I really wanted like the next thing to be like, ah shit, and

(01:01:28):
then he killed him like that would have been hilarious like
but it did not go that way. Sam The.
Sword's too heavy. He skipped leg day for three
years and didn't have any core strength to swing the sword.
Yeah, that actually makes sense.I was kind of like, could the
Jen refuse A wish? Like, could he say, no, I'm not

(01:01:52):
going to give you the thing thatkills me?
He did it in Part 2. Well, that that was.
Saying no, you can't. Well, Sivan, you can.
Speak well, because there there are, I mean, it's kind of the
same thing in this one where it's like, OK, he gets into the
corner where she makes a wish that only she can ramp.
But then in two there was like 1, she's like, oh, I wish all

(01:02:13):
the evil in the world to go away.
And he's like, well, no, I can'tdo that because then the world
wouldn't exist. Like there has to be a balance
of good and evil. So like he doesn't have like he
doesn't quite have like reality.So if it has like a reality
warping like kind of intention to it, he can't.
But then again, he did rewind time.
So I yeah, you know, his, the gin's power scaling is kind of

(01:02:37):
all over the place. I spell bullshit in the whole
there has to be 50% good, 50% doesn't.
I don't, I don't know, he that seems like the, well, actually
kind of guy and I'm not buying it.
He is the gin. He is that guy.
He's definitely that guy. Lisa wins this movie because at
the end he beats the gin, she beats and she gets rid of Sam

(01:03:01):
like she. She doesn't have to stick with
any web blanket dude like at theend of three.
And. More time didn't have to get
rewound or anything. So she got that settlement
right, She. Gets $10 million, yeah.
She can fix that house up again or buy a different one and leave
those memories behind. Yeah, and $10 million will buy
you a lot of toys to take care. Of me, maybe the biggest win of

(01:03:24):
anybody in this franchise. Oh my God.
Big time, I think. She came out big time at the
top. I'm trying to remember the I
think it's Holly in Part 2 and I'm probably wrong but like get
together with the goth punk art thief.
Morgana. Morgana, thank you.
Get together with Morgana, stealart.

(01:03:44):
Learn how to shoot a pistol. No, she doesn't need to be with
a criminal. Just let her be.
Let her be free. Lisa needs to be free.
I really like Morgana step up onthe effects of this one.
The getting back to better practical ones.
I we talked a little bit. It'll just maybe end with this.
Like I like that the gin is a bit more playful here.

(01:04:07):
Like the there's not a ton of special effects scenes here but
the lawyer call scene I thought was so much fun.
Yeah. It's really fun.
I feel like this is, it's very interesting that this one, like
horror is like the maybe the 5thsubgenre down the list, you
know, like this is so much more fantasy.
It's so much more kind of this romantic drama.

(01:04:30):
It's so much more like it's all these things.
And then it's like, Oh yeah. And then we got to throw a
couple like, you know, horrific,like effects in there here and
there. But like, yeah, I thought that
phone call, I thought that was really fun.
It was very creative played on on Truco's strengths, you know,
like that's like how the first like real, like, you know, like,
you know, performance we get of the gin in this format, Like,

(01:04:53):
OK, this is what we're cooking with, all right.
Like we're going to be we're in good hands.
So I feel like that was also worked that way.
But yeah, yeah, I thought the gore on that looked pretty good.
Yeah. Bummer there's no reanimation
scene though, because that doesn't happen in this one or
three. They can't afford like to have
the gin born into a small and then reanimate themselves.

(01:05:15):
One thing I really like, just like she gets the little present
from him, that little like jewelry box, it opens and she
like rubs up against the jewel It gives her that kind of like
omen and she's like, Nope. And then just like I don't want
this like clears. They like Nope, I don't like
good for her. Like Lisa is really, really

(01:05:37):
smart. You don't have to accept weird
gifts from dudes who want to sleep with you.
Just just putting that out there.
You know what would have been a cool scene is if because
whenever she gives him the drills, like no, I don't want
it. And he's like, OK, yeah, I'll go
take it to get appraised. And then what if we would have
looped back around to the gal from the first movie and she

(01:05:59):
does the appraisal? Again.
And it's like Final Destination Five, Yeah.
That would have been crazy. And then Devin saw was getting
dragged out. Like, you don't understand
there's a gin. That would be amazing.
The crossover we need, It's the crossover we deserve.
It really is. Well, anything else.
Are we good? I wanted to, I want to ask cuz

(01:06:21):
in the, in the, when we did the Wishmaster 2, I remember we were
talking about like, you know, ifwe, if Wishmaster came back as a
series like like kind of anthology series or, or, or if
they did do a reboot film or something like that.
Do either of you have a dreamcasting for the gin?
Obviously it can be somebody obviously to play their human

(01:06:43):
form, but like it can be somebody that plays the human
form and the gin form as Devov did as well.
Do you guys have any ideas? So possibly because I just spoke
about Nosferatu recently, I'm feeling a scars guard would be
great in both like out of makeupand in makeup.
I also thought of Dan Stevens, but I'm always thinking of Dan

(01:07:06):
Stevens and it would be interesting to see a woman do
it. And so I was trying to think of
like women I would want to see play the gin.
They are tricksters. I so I, I was, I was chatting
with somebody on blue sky earlier and a couple of mine
were not just cuz he's very hot right now, but because I think

(01:07:28):
he would be like actually reallygood because somebody goes who
would be cunty enough to be the gin.
And I was like, oh, Walton Goggins.
Of course, you know, we know he's cool with makeup cuz he
does the Fallout series that he could do the human and in the in
the makeup form. I think that'd be really
interesting, yes. And Ari, you said it'd be cool

(01:07:49):
to see a woman cuz yeah, literally anybody can play the
gin. I thought either Janelle Monáe
or Lupita Nyong'o would be interesting choices.
Good choices. Yeah, cuz they kind of have like
a little bit more theatricality to them, a little bit more, you
know, in that I think that couldbe interesting.
You need a little bit of campiness in there, yeah.

(01:08:11):
Give me a musical number with the gin.
The gin deserves a musical number.
I'm going Parks and Rec and I'm going to say I wouldn't mind
like an Amy Poehler who would bring like a lot of humor to it
and a quirkiness and a real likecomic sensibility to it.
And I think you could have a lotof fun in that role.
I think you would probably have to change some of the lore.

(01:08:36):
Or maybe the Jinn don't want to come and unleash hell on earth.
Maybe heck on earth. You making this Aya frame?
I could see like a like I could see them Amy Poehler do like a
take where it's like the jinn again, like kind of play on
that. Like they almost like behave
like Martians learning how to behumans again.
I feel like Amy Poehler could like pull that angle off.

(01:08:58):
Yeah. Just smiling real big all the
time. Yeah, just like Nick Offerman
and just being like, just make the damn wish, son.
Just that would be or Stone ColdSteve Austin but playing it as
himself, like Stone Cold Steve Austin as the gin, as Stone Cold
Steve Austin, like if you want to.

(01:09:18):
Make a wish. Give me a hell yeah that would
be He's banging Steve Wisers around, and if you don't make a
wish, he gives you a stunner. Speaking of wrestlers, as
actors, we may have to get used to hearing nominated for Best
Male Actor in a Lead PerformanceDwayne The Rock Johnson, because

(01:09:41):
I saw the trailer for The Smashing Machine.
Holy shit. It.
Looks incredible. He's playing like AUFC fighter.
Did you just that? Looks, I mean, it looks fine.
It looks like a it looks like a biopic.
Thank you so much. It looks like a it.
Looks in this episode it. Looks like a sports biopic.
Devon where can. Wow, Mike.

(01:10:02):
Mike said I don't have time for your shenanigan.
You know, I know you have a heart out at 9:00 and we only
have 45 minutes. So it looks unlike anything he
has ever done. Like that's the kind of
performance. I would.
It's what I'm hoping he does. Yeah, yeah.
It looks, yeah, and. I I'll have to check that out.
I'm not alone in thinking that. Keep him away from the gin is

(01:10:25):
all I'm saying. I hope.
I hope he does more ambitious stuff like this.
Just keep him away from the gin.I'm not a big like the Rock as
an actor, like I honestly like not I'm not a huge I rate him
like third out of that trifecta of like Batista, John Cena in
the Rock as actors. Like I think Batista is a.

(01:10:45):
Batista is a legit actor. John Cena is like legit
hilarious when he wants to be. So yeah, OK, but the rocks
cousin, Roman Reigns. Roman Reigns I actually would
like as the Jinn because he's sort of like self serious.
Yeah, I feel like it would work.What about Seth Rollins in all

(01:11:09):
the outfits? No, Seth Rollins needs to settle
down. You heard it here first.
That's Rollins settled down. He did settle down with Becky
Lynch. That's true.
You have a. Child, I'm not watching a lot of
WWE right now. I feel like they're doing a lot
of things wrong, not just in thering, but outside of it that's

(01:11:31):
either here nor there. So, all right, Devon, it's been
a spirit discussion. We did it.
We've once again, not only do you disagree with my movie
takes, you disagree with my takes on trailers.
Like that's the depth. That's just like.
Yeah, that happens. Unreal.
The prophecy has been fulfilled.Yeah, at least for us it has.

(01:11:54):
What do you have coming up? Over on Spectra Cinema Club for
Pride Month, we are going through the Psycho movies.
So obviously I start with the Hitchcock classic, but I have
not seen any of the sequels, while I've seen two.
We just recorded that one. So we'll be going through all
those over there. And then over on Tainted Love,

(01:12:16):
we have an episode on Tucker andDale versus Evil, and then we'll
have a episode later on in PrideMonth for Ravenous.
So you can hear me on at SpectreCinema, on social media, at
Tintedlovepod, at Under Score, Daddydisco, on Blue Sky
Letterbox and Instagram. Excellent, thank you so much.

(01:12:38):
Always a pleasure. I joke about you like hating my
tastes and trying to drive me crazy, but I say it because I
say hopefully with affection. Hopefully.
I I mean, everybody I know, yeah, people, I hope you guys
don't think this this feud between me and just like
wrestling guys, this is this is a show.
This is for entertainment, Todd the pendulum.

(01:12:59):
Has its own kayfabe we. Do, yes, yeah, definitely.
When we were recording Wishmaster, Goodness gracious,
when we were recording the thirdepisode in this series, Devon
Mike asked me if you and I were in cahoots to, like, ruin his
life. And I mean, we were
unsuccessful. I was whenever I saw, whenever I

(01:13:20):
saw Mike go like, oh, it wasn't that bad.
I was like damn. I.
Thought I had. I thought I had them.
Listeners that the proof is in the recording of Part 2, when
Devon is like, I just really wanted to hurt Mike with like
this choice. And I'm like, why?
Like, what did I do? I feel like I'm so nice to

(01:13:42):
everybody on the crew, like, andit's like, what can we do to
hurt Mike? Like I don't.
Understand. No, if I if I truly want to hurt
Mike, I would have like put likeChildren of the Corn on the
wheel. Like if I truly want to put him
through pain, won't do. That coming in 2027, children.
I hope not. I do love that like I sent like

(01:14:05):
the Wes Anderson Criterion box set is coming out and I'm like
guys, 2026 patron, what do you think?
Like 10 movies in the box set. The 11th movie comes out this
week. 12th move a month will be rankings one a month.
What do you think? And Ari's like no.
And then Stevens, like, yeah, I don't like and Steven.

(01:14:25):
I thought Steven would like Wes Anderson movies.
I kind of thought you were a lotto have.
Him at least done. I think you and Devon have
recruited Steven against me. I've seen pastel colored pencils
lay still on a desk I don't needto see.
A Wes Anderson I just looked at the slack in the Charlie Brown
sad music just started playing in my head.

(01:14:47):
I felt I did. Feel bad to shoot your idea down
but I was like I will shove nails under my fingernails
before I watch a Watson Andersonmovie.
That's cool. Yeah.
Wrong turn 3. Wrong turn 5.
Anyway, Ari, what's coming up for you?
You. Know not much, I'm just hanging
out. You can find me on all the
socials at Ari under score Hellraiser.

(01:15:08):
I'll post all my writing and podcasting there.
Where can folks find your book Millennial Nasties and what
formats is it out on? Oh man, you can choose your own
adventure. On encycleapocalypse.com you can
get hardcover, A paperback or anebook.
And on Amazon you can get an audiobook.
How did you get basketball legend Larry Bird to read the

(01:15:29):
audiobook? OK you joke but I legit love
Larry Bird so much. For a sports hero.
I I have a crush. On Holy Shit, Let's talk it's.
Something I love Larry Bird. I love basketball.
Jesus. I love Larry Bird.
He's my favorite athlete of all time.
He's great, was my first sports hero.
I legit will sometimes just watch Larry Bird clips and weep

(01:15:51):
like. Still cry.
Larry Bird and Scottie Pippen. Yeah, those are my boys.
Yep. I watched all of like Celtics
Pride, the nine part or eight part Celtics documentary that
was just out. I legit think they should show
the first two episodes on schoolbecause they're all about like
the civil rights movement and Bill Russell and like they

(01:16:12):
should be shown in school. Now this current hellscape we
live in, they never will be. But there were like 3 episodes
and Larry Bird and the last one is basically on him breaking
down at the end of his career and.
Because he he poured a driveway for his Mama, Yeah.
I legit. And that made me fall in love
with. Him, yeah.
And all the younger Celtics werelike, Oh yeah, he took us under

(01:16:34):
his wing. He wanted us to be better
players. Like, he legit tried to make us
better. He knew he was going to retire
and was getting. This is not a Larry Bird
podcast, but Ari, that makes me so happy.
Larry Bird is amazing, folks. Yeah, you know that.
We both love Larry. We're gonna patron series.
We're gonna just do, like, the best Larry Bird games, Watch

(01:16:56):
them and. Oh.
My God, we'll. Do that anyway.
People will be like, what is this podcast?
Like the one where he for no reason decided to only play with
his left hand just like still like got like a crazy triple
double. Just just got bored.
God love him. You can find it is coming next

(01:17:17):
though. What's coming next?
So next episode, Final Destination Bloodlines, we're
going to be talking about the smash sensation. 200 million
worldwide so far. Like going bananas.
It is absolutely wild. The kids want their Final
Destination. Kids need it, stick it in their
veins. We're here to talk about it.

(01:17:37):
The good, the bad, not much bad,what we loved about it.
And then after that, we're goingto rank shit.
We're going to rank all the Final Destination movies and
we're going to rank all of the opening kills.
Like what are our favorite opening kill sequences?
And they're not going to rank every kill in.
Those movies, I like that. That would be a lot of fun.
After that, it is the summer of George.

(01:18:00):
We are doing all the George Romero Living Dead films.
Hope you've liked this episode. Listeners, please rate, review,
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(01:18:22):
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(01:18:45):
2024 Nosferatu with Brian, Ari and Steven.
No hint of me whatsoever and it's just one of the best
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Like Ari says something on that episode that is hilarious when

(01:19:06):
she says it would get me thrown in prison which I find really
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(01:19:30):
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(01:19:52):
is on there and it helps keep the lights on.
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We just recently cracked like the top 30 for film history
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Doing too much good shit for free.

(01:20:13):
I know. So patrons like, let's give us a
couple bucks, folks. That would be great.
Give us your money, you cheap sons of bitches.
See, that's the part that Jen would always cut out in
psychoanalysis. Yeah, this is where we lose
them. Cutting it out like calling them
cheap sons of bitches so. But no, we love and support all
of you listeners. We really appreciate you so

(01:20:34):
much. Happy Pride Month to all of
those celebrate and we will be back next week with Final
Destination. Devon Ari.
It is always a pleasure speakingwith you both.
I love to both of you guys. Have a great week.
We'll see you guys really soon. Your wish has been granted to.

(01:20:57):
Watch Dresh and Scott. That was Sam as soon as he got
those tingling feelings back in the lights.
For goodness sake.