January 3, 2025 • 30 mins
Jennifer, a designer and entrepreneur, is passionate about creating personalized, functional, and beautiful designs that inspire others to reclaim their spaces. Courtney, a therapist and coach, has spent nearly two decades helping individuals and families grow personally and professionally.
In this episode...
With over 20 years of combined experience in design and mental health, Jennifer Harris and Courtney Huckabay offer a unique approach to understanding the relationship between people and their spaces.
Together, they explore how mindset and psychology influence our connection to material possessions, offering practical strategies to transform spaces into reflections of balance and purpose.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the Powerof Authority Spotlight.
I'm your host, Michelle Prince, founderand CEO of Performance Publishing Group,
making a difference one story at a time.
We'll be shining the light on successfulfounders, entrepreneurs, business
owners and leaders that are gettingresults and making a difference.
We'll talk about how they builttheir businesses, are creating
(00:26):
movements and leveraging the powerof authority in their own lives.
Be sure to stick around to theend of the show and we'll reveal
how you can be our next guest.
Let's get started.
Hey everybody and welcome to thePower of Authority Spotlight where
we shine the light on entrepreneurs,business owners, leaders, and people
(00:47):
that are doing extraordinary things.
They're they're following theirpassion, they're living with purpose,
and they're making a difference.
And I cannot wait tointroduce you to two guests.
Today, but first this episode is broughtto you by performance publishing.
If you've ever thought aboutwriting a book, you can do it.
It is not as hard as you think.
You just got to get that, all ofthat out of your head onto paper and
we can help go get a free strategycall at performance publishing group.
(01:12):
com.
That's performance publishing group.
com.
Well, let me introduce youto my two guests today.
First is Jennifer Harris.
Jennifer is a mom, designer, entrepreneur,and recovering maximalist with over
20 years of experience designinginteriors, products, and graphics.
Her passion for problem solving andorganization drives her to create
(01:33):
personalized solutions that blendfunctionality with aesthetic appeal.
She hopes her story and ideas willinspire others to reclaim the functional
design of their personal real estate.
And then we also have Courtney Huckabee,who is a mom, therapist, trainer,
supervisor, coach, and entrepreneur.
She founded and led her professionalmental health group practice and has been
(01:55):
a therapist for over 18 years, workingwith families, children, and parents.
Her passion in life is helping peoplegrow personally and professionally,
though her first love remains her family.
Jennifer Courtney, welcome to the show.
Hello.
for having us.
I'm so excited to have you both on becauseI've had the privilege of getting to
(02:17):
see you bring this baby to life, whichis your new book, which just came out.
Just launched here recently calledreframe and reclaim, but tell
everyone a little bit more aboutthe book and how it came to be.
Yeah.
So the origin story of reframe and reclaimreally started about three years ago in
(02:38):
the fall of 2021, when I started noticingpatterns within my own family and how
we, our relationship with our belongings.
And I noticed thesepatterns were generational.
So from my grandparents to my mom, and.
For my family.
So my history is I have alot of sentimentality when
it comes to belongings.
(02:59):
So both my grandfathers passedaway when I was nine years old.
My father passed away when I was, was 15.
And so for me, this book really started asevaluating my sentimentality around these
items and how I put so much emphasis.
on these sentimental items aroundmy loved ones who had passed away.
So that started me thinking and Ireached out to Courtney, who's a mental
(03:23):
health professional, and we just startedhaving conversations about why do I
do these things or people in general,why they do these things and why they
have You know, have the self identityand this emphasis on their belongings.
And so we had these conversationsand it kind of morphed into,
Hey, you want to write a book?
Like, I think this could bereally helpful for people.
(03:44):
So the way the book is formattedis it starts out with me sharing
my personal journey and my storiesabout how I've used certain excuses
or how I have not let go of.
So I really don't need any more.
They're not serving a purpose in my home.
Some are even not, someare even negative feelings.
(04:04):
You know, I keep the item, but it hasa real negative connotation to it.
So why am I keeping these items?
So this book is really the story of myjourney and journey of other clients.
We have helped and how we're able tolet go of items that aren't serving
us in our current life chapter.
I think this is huge because so manypeople, and I can relate, I won't,
(04:26):
I'll tell you more of my storiesbecause, but I totally get it, and you
don't want to throw away something,especially if somebody's passed away,
but what is the psychology behind that?
You know, Courtney, why do we do this?
Why do we hold on?
Well, there, there's so much behind this.
And so, you know, it's not a simple,Oh, this is why, you know, and so
(04:46):
really we learn a lot about how we dolife and about our, our identities,
how we connect with others throughwhat we see other people doing.
And so, one of the things thatJennifer and I really found is it's.
Really generational for her.
There was a lot of, well, my mom keptthings and my grandfather kept things.
And so I just know that you keepthings, but we actually go through many
(05:11):
different excuses or justificationsof why we hold on to things or why we
acquire things in the book and it'slaid out like that in the chapters.
And so there's differentjustifications and each justification
is highlighted by each chapter.
Yeah, you mentioned the word generationsand I'm curious if there's any connection
(05:34):
to my grandmother was and, you know,came in the World War Two kind of the or
actually she was in the Great Depression.
And I know I remember as a little girl shewould even save and reuse paper towels.
Long after she had, theyhad plenty of money, right?
But there was, so is that maybe whatsome of this generational, like they,
(05:57):
they, they didn't have anything.
So they kept everything.
And then the next generation islike, well, if my mom kept it,
maybe we should care, kept keep it.
And then the green, itjust goes on and on and on.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's definitely a part of that.
And I think what's so hardis, you know, we also create
habits in our life, you know?
So maybe my habit is I collect thesethings or, you know, I try to find
(06:18):
Things that are valuable or keepthings that could be worth value.
And I keep that habit until itdoesn't serve me anymore, or I realize
it's not really helpful for me.
So we really do try to explore andunpack lots of different psychologies
around our identities and our habitsand our connections with our things.
(06:38):
One of the things I really loveabout the book is you have a
collection of case studies.
And you know, to really paintthe picture of what, what,
what this really looks like.
Do you mind sharing a coupleof those or some, give us some
ideas of what's really going on.
So like Jen said, a lot of itstarts with her own Like history
(07:01):
and, and sharing her story.
And then we try to find people whowould be willing to let us try some
of our ideas with our reclaim process.
We have a seven step process thatwe've identified, we formulated, and
we thought this would be really good.
And so we asked for volunteers toopen up their homes and let us come
(07:23):
in and step in and being a counselor,you know, a little bit about.
My theory of working with people is notto say, this is how you got to do it.
Let me show you.
I'm the expert, but really havingit client led and what's different
about this book and some other booksthat might be out there is we don't
come in and do for the person weactually have them tell us what to do.
(07:45):
What they need.
And so we go through the seven, sevensteps and we ask them the questions
along the way and trying to findout what they hope their function
of their design of their space.
What has, what is one of the challengesthat they're facing when it comes to
their space, and we actually let themmake the decisions as we decide one
(08:09):
thing versus another is this a keep,or is this a donate, or is this a give
Give to somebody else who might be, um,wanting this or conserve them as well.
I would love for you totake us through those seven.
And so people can write them down too.
So, and I know you've touched on it,but just step, what is number one?
Number one is reflect.
(08:31):
Okay.
We want to make sure that the reflectingon how the space is currently used,
what is in their space, how their spacefeels when they're in their space.
We also wanted them to ask, like,what they want their space to be.
Okay.
As well.
So maybe one way and what is, what isthe hope that they want at the end?
(08:53):
Okay.
So reflect, stop, you know, reallyevaluate basically what you want.
What's number two?
Well, that leads us intoE, which is evaluate.
So, okay.
Or I, I'm sorry.
So you, I said seven step,but it is the acronym.
It is reclaim.
Yes.
Right.
So R is reflect E is evaluate, evaluate.
(09:17):
And so the evaluate step really is gettingto the root of why you were holding on
to this item and what it's giving you.
And so.
For so how it's like Courtney was sayinghow it's broken up in the book is by
the different excuses we tell ourselves.
And so someone who keeps somethingbecause of sentimental versus someone
(09:38):
who's keeping an item because it's, youknow, might be worth something someday.
Or, you know, I might use it one daybecause The whole great depression
mentality is going to, we're goingto ask different questions based on
those excuses so that we can reallyget to the root of the problem.
Love that.
So ease, evaluate and what's next.
(09:58):
So after we do that, we'regoing to make sure that we
clean and clear out the space.
So it's really hard to see how the spacecan be without how everything already is.
And that's really just like takingeverything out, clearing out the space
and seeing it for what it could be andreally letting your mind get creative and
(10:19):
evaluating what you would like it to be.
I like that.
Okay.
Clean.
And also thinking about how you feelwhen it's clean and empty, because
you may look at it and be like, Oh,I didn't know it could feel this way.
I really don't want to put allthis stuff back into it because
I feel good seeing empty.
This is so fascinating to me.
I really, it is.
(10:40):
It's just the connection between the two.
So anyway, we'll keep goingbecause I know everyone wants
to continue to what they are.
What is L?
L is layout.
And so this is as you, before youput the room back together, really
thinking about the things that youreflected on in the evaluate process,
or evaluate step, I should say.
(11:00):
Is what you want to put back in and howthis room needs to function for yourself.
So whether it's sketching out likethis is where I want furniture to go,
or in my pantry, you know I snacksare what I always go to so I need that
at eye level so I can grab it quicklyand put the heavier items down low.
So, you know, thinking about how you thefunctionality of it for your everyday
use laying out to that specification.
(11:25):
And then.
Will you go into the next ? Right.
And then we go into, next, wego into a, which is so as, yeah.
So as we create like a blueprint,you know, it might be a sketch, it
might be like, you know, measuringoff and putting some, some things
to show where things would go.
We actually start to assembleand we say what is priority?
(11:46):
What is something that, if this is tofunction and feel as you had imagined.
What has to go back in and we startthere and we start to assemble
and see, okay, how does this feel?
Now you see this in the space.
Now that you have this in thespace, do we need to adjust anything
in the, as we're putting it backinto the actual physical space?
(12:08):
So good.
So good.
All right.
And then our reason to I, sothe I in reclaim is inspect,
and this is really, important.
It's a step that I don't think a lotof people take into consideration
and really give it enough value.
You want to take a step back, lookat the space and say, is this really
going to function how I want it to?
(12:29):
And it's okay if it doesn't.
So if you take a step back and you'relike, you know, I really need this item.
More eye level, or this itemreally should go in another room.
So I can fit the things Ineed in this space here.
That's where you do that in this step andjust take that final gut check to make
sure it's going to function how you want.
Okay.
So smart.
Yes.
(12:51):
And then the final what's M so M.
Is the hardest and thelongest step of the process.
And this is maintained.
So, um, a lot of times we see, we takea few hours, a couple of days, and
we create a space and then we livein the space and we use the space.
(13:11):
And this is where a lot of times, um,the space no longer is functioning
the way we started or intended.
So this is really looking atwhat steps do I need to take?
Who do I need to also bring into this?
And create expectations for this spaceso that it does continue to function
and feel the way it does right now.
(13:33):
Wow.
How did you two come up with this?
I know you talked in the book and I,and I had a little bit of a, you know,
insider view on this, but really how did,how did you come up with that framework?
It's really very interesting.
It's not just clever, butit's very functional and it
makes a ton of sense to me.
Yes.
Well, it was, it was really lookingat, I feel like people, whenever they,
(13:56):
this is going to be a generalization,but when people look at design shows
or organizational shows, or when theywant to go and organize something,
they think it's one and done.
It's like, I'm going to buy these bins.
I'm going to put it in here.
It's going to be beautiful.
And I never have to touch it again.
But like, so.
Not like that, right?
Our life changes.
I mean, if I say like, if I could knowwhich snack my kid is going to have
(14:16):
as their favorite, you know, from weekto week, that would be a huge help.
But if they want somethingthat's two inches wide compared
to one inch wide, that's goingto vary my space in my pantry.
Right.
And so being able to be flexible.
And understand that you will haveto come back to it and make it work
for you is a really important step.
And I think, you know, about 70 to80 percent of a system will continue
(14:40):
to work, but we need to have theabout 20 percent that stays flexible
for just changing lifestyles.
Very good.
So yeah, go ahead.
Well, and I was going to mentionwith that too, is the maintaining
is not that this space has tocontinue to function this way.
And that's the coming back to reflectingagain, if you know, the kids are in
(15:00):
diapers and now the kids aren't in diapersor the kids like this snack and don't
like this snack, or I have an office.
Now I don't need a home office,or I have this hobby and
now I don't have that hobby.
We can really come back to you.
Coming back to this again, the nextyear or three years from now, and it's
something that is always evolving anda living process is what it really is.
(15:24):
So the people that you, who volunteered,you went into their homes, give me an
example of what happened as you tookthem through this seven step process.
Let me take that Jen, ordo you want to take that?
So we, we all, as we werewriting this book, some of our
friends and family knew about it.
And we talked to some other peoplewho might be interested and we just
(15:47):
asked, Hey, we're writing a book.
Would you be comfortable for us comingin one of our clients out of necessity?
She's like, I'm moving.
I have this.
and I've got to figure outwhat to do with all this stuff.
I haven't seen this stuff in years.
I don't want to do this, but I knowif you're offering help, I need help.
And so we actually started the dayand did some you know pre interview,
(16:09):
which is in, in the book as well.
And how are you feeling, you know,what are your hopes for this time you
know what's kept you kept you from notstarting this process before whether
it's for you and really just gettingto know the client where they're at.
And reassuring that we're nothere to force you to get rid of
(16:29):
things or to throw things away.
Really, we just want to helpyou find better function.
And this client was telling us she hadavoided this space for over six years
because she just knew it was going totake too much time and too much effort.
And by the end of the day, wefinished everything in one day.
She had donated more thana car full of things.
(16:51):
She, Was so thankful thatwe went through this.
She was excited about hermove because she was moving.
She felt like she had found things thatshe didn't know she had lost or misplaced.
And she found things that she realized,I don't know why I was keeping this.
Like, what was I thinking?
So there is a lot of changein six years for this client.
(17:12):
And our hope for this bookis not to become minimalist.
It's just really finding whatfunctions and what feels good for you.
I love that because it's notjust about functionality.
It is also about the feeling part of it.
And if it really meanssomething to you, right.
It brings you joy and, you know,and not, you know, then, then
(17:33):
keep it and find a place for it.
But let me give you a scenarioand you tell me if, how you would,
how you would approach this.
So let's just use themoving example again, right?
So somebody is moving and they've pulledout all the things, like, let's just say
the attic or the storage shed or whatever.
And they realize that they have,have all of the pictures and all the
(17:58):
memorabilia of somebody who has passedmom, dad, grandma, whoever it is.
What do you do with that stuff?
It's from this generation.
They can't use it.
But there's this guilt tiedto, but I can't throw it away.
It was mom.
So I, I have become an expert in thisarea because this is a lot, right?
(18:21):
So for me, I had to reallylook at what do I value?
And it wasn't like, you know,I had to look at it as, as
like very almost existential.
Like if my house burned down and Ilost everything, what do I truly value?
What do I want?
And what would I be heartbroken if I lost?
And so it was really the family photos.
(18:44):
And I thought about it though.
And I was like, well, all my family photosare stored in boxes and albums, like at
the bottom of my entertainment center.
And if there was a fire,could I easily go grab those?
Could I save those?
You know, is it in a place?
Where if I truly value it, I can get it.
And so for me, I took a step back and Idigitized all my really important photos.
(19:06):
It did, it was a process andtook some time, but I was
able to digitize the photos.
Any objects that were reallysentimental to me, I took photos
of, I bought a light box, Courtneywas there, we have it on video.
We had a weekend of it.
Yes.
And you know, I just talked throughthe items and why this is important
and why I wanted to keep it.
(19:27):
So I was able to take photos of itand then I could easily let it go.
And you know, if I'm honest withmyself, Am I going to go back and
look at some of these sentimentalitems like my childhood toys?
Maybe not.
Probably not.
But for me, it stored on anexternal hard drive that I keep in
my fireproof and waterproof safe.
(19:48):
So I know it's safe and I can goaccess that whenever I want to.
And whenever I want to, youknow, revisit those memories.
Wow.
That is awesome advice.
And I have to tell you, selfishly, I askedthe question because we are getting ready
to move and we cleaned out a storage shedand it has, and my husband's mother has
(20:10):
passed his grandmother, his grandfather,and a great uncle that we took care
of, you know, up until their last days.
And so to have all of this importantstuff, That was so important in their
lives and yet it's nothing that we accessor do anything but that that feeling
the guilt that there is a psychological.
Right.
(20:30):
Well, we can't get rid of it.
Right.
And so I feel like you just, firstof all, kind of released me from this
like there is, there is an answer.
And in all the yearswe've lived in this house.
They were in a storage unit.
Like never once did we go through them.
So that is actually great,great, great advice.
Digitize the pictures.
(20:51):
Take pictures of something.
Yes.
And I, you know, something else that Idealt with is I have a three car garage.
So I have lots of storage space,but if I'm storing something out
in, you know, Texas, summers.
And if it's 110, 120 degrees,is it going to be preserved?
Am I really valuing this item?
If I'm storing it in thisheated garage, right?
(21:13):
Like it's, so it's just, yes.
Yes.
Right.
Right.
And I think it's so important.
Like there's not.
A one answer.
And so if you come across, you know,a grandparent's something special or,
or, you know, an item that belonged tothem, it's okay to say, I'm not ready
(21:34):
to let this go now, but are there otherthings that I feel comfortable with?
And so this isn't a one stop.
Sometimes it is.
I need time, or I need to talk to otherfamily members, or I heard a lot of people
say, I just don't want it to be wasted.
it.
I don't want it to be forgotten.
And so finding like an organization thatcan use those things or an organization
(21:58):
that can repurpose it or finding afamily member that would have a space
inside their home to display or touse one of those family heirlooms.
I think that has been a key is like notwanting people and their, and their legacy
to be forgotten, but yeah, that's it.
We're not really honoring them by keepingall of their things in a storage unit, but
(22:19):
that's what we feel like we need to do.
But what is going to bemore honoring to them?
Oh, go ahead, please, Jennifer.
I'm just going to say another example,one of our client case studies, it was,
you know, there was a curio cabinetwhere she kept all of these things
that were passed down to her fromher parents and from her loved ones.
But it's kind of that old saying, youknow, if you value everything you know you
(22:41):
don't value anything and so all of the,the really important pieces were hiding
behind other items that were also given.
But they just didn't hold the same value.
So by being able to edit out thoseitems that had a lower value, we
were able to really highlight andaccentuate those really joy filled
sentimental items that she will seeevery time she walks in her home.
(23:03):
And I heard you say earlier.
So once you've determined that,okay, you know, maybe I'm not
keeping her, maybe, but that you saidthere's three really like buckets,
if you will, is it the donate?
Yeah, there's a giveaway.
What was that?
What was it?
Well, we have, there'salways trash, unfortunately.
Okay.
There's trash, you know,there's donate, there's keep.
(23:24):
And then sometimes we have a maybe pilewhere it's like, I'm not quite sure.
And again, going back to theassemble inspect process.
It's like, Oh, I do havespace for one more item.
I could put this in or Oh, Ineed to take this other item out.
So, Yeah.
Right.
And I think that, you know, I'mactually one of the case studies.
I, we all, I, again, this is not justa Jennifer storytelling, you know,
(23:48):
we all, you know, I think you too,Michelle have found like a place of how
this might help or fit in their lives.
But for me, um, I had these dollsthat were passed down to me by my
grandmother who has also passedand a very important person to me.
One of my closestrelationships I've had in life.
But I was told not to play with thesedolls because they were too valuable.
(24:11):
So for 30 plus years, they werestored inside my home, not in the
Texas heat in my closet, in a box.
And they just sat there.
So what I did instead is Icontacted family and I said,
these were grandmothers.
Does anybody want these?
I want her to be remembered.
They were important for her, but I'm not.
(24:32):
Appreciating and how she wanted me to.
And I, you know, I want somebodyto display them, use them.
And I was able to gift them to two of myfamily members so that they could keep
those things that were hers and honorher and me feel comfortable with that.
I feel like this book is goingto release a lot of that guilt.
(24:53):
And also a little shame maybe oflike, well, why is my house fluttered?
And, you know, because like for youboth to have gone through and deal with
this and me too, you know, I think it'sso many people struggle with this, but
it's, it's just one of those things.
You don't talk about it.
It's just like, well, it just goesto the next house and then to the
(25:13):
next house and to the next house.
So I think you're releasingpeople from a lot of that.
And I think what you're doing is, and nopun intended, but you're really, Helping
them to reclaim, you know, their space andwhat matters to them and what brings them
joy and fulfillment and all those things.
and it starts with the reframing ofhow does, how do I value this and is it
(25:35):
important to me and do I value it forwhat reasons and claiming the space,
reclaiming the space and the function.
Cause sometimes I'm like, I have to keepthis because it was, you know, so and sos
I, you know, it was gifted to me, I'vegot a display and it doesn't really fit
the function or the aesthetic you want.
So working on that mental and emotionalpiece is really important in our book.
(25:59):
Yes.
So I know people listening are going towant to, for first of all, they're going
to want to get the book and they're alsogoing to want to get in touch with you.
So what is some of the bestways that they can do both?
Well, they can follow us onInstagram at reframe underscore
reclaim, where we show a lot of whatwe're doing and tips and tricks.
We also have our Facebook pageat reframe amber sand reclaim.
(26:23):
And then our website is reframe dashreclaim, where they can go and pick up
our book and there's links to Amazon and.
Barnes and Noble and otherbooksellers that they can get to.
Yeah.
And I highly recommend those listening.
Definitely go get it.
It's, it's, it's a great book.
It's an easy read.
And I think it's somethingthat can make a huge impact in
people's lives and homes and yes.
(26:45):
And, but he said, I hope ladies,
so, so much for being on the show.
I just adore both of you andI'm so excited for this journey
and this is just the beginning.
For what you're goingto do to help people.
Well, we want to thank youand performance publishing.
It has really been a joy and a reliefto work with somebody who would guide us
(27:07):
through all of the publishing process,because it does feel overwhelming when
you haven't written a book before.
So I just want to say thankyou to all of your team.
It's been a really,really wonderful pleasure.
Oh, yes.
Thanks for helping us tell our story.
You are so welcome.
All right.
Well, I'm going to wrap this up.
And so I just want to make sure forthose of you who are listening, and
if you didn't have a pen earlier, I'mgoing to have it and you have it now.
(27:30):
What are those steps?
So again, it's all about, you got toreclaim or reframe and then reclaim, but
what are those seven steps that Jenniferand Courtney shared is number one is
the R in reclaim is reflect, right?
Really taking in What,what do I really want?
How, how, what do I envision?
All of that has to happen beforeyou can do anything else because
then you go to E, which is evaluate.
(27:51):
Get to the root of why areyou holding on to some things?
Why, why, why is it in your home?
Is it important to youor does it an obligation?
Then we go to C, which is you gotto clean and clear out, right?
I love that because until you,you can't just move things around.
You really have to get rid of it alland then determine what you want back
in, which is where the L comes in.
(28:12):
How do you want it laid out?
How is it going to be functional for you?
And that's super, super important tothink through in this whole process.
Then we move into a, which standsfor assemble and really thinking
back, you know, what is the priority?
What, what has to go back in?
What, what doesn't need to go back in?
That's all part of the assemble stage.
Then we go into inspect, whichis, does it function for me?
(28:34):
Does it really work the way Iwant it to in my everyday life?
And then finally, the M in reclaim ismaintain because And, and, and part of
that also goes back to the beginning ofreflect because something may work today
that may not work six months from now.
So you have to maintain it, butthen go back, reflect just to make
sure, does it still work for you?
So I highly recommend again, you,you get this book and go to their
(28:56):
website at reframe dash reclaim.
com.
And I just want to thank you all forlistening and we'll see you next time
on the power of authority podcast.
Bye now.
Bye.
Thanks so much for listening tothe Power of Authority Spotlight.
If you are a successful founder,entrepreneur, business owner, or
(29:20):
leader that's getting results andmaking a difference, and you'd
like to be on this program, pleasevisit performancepublishinggroup.
com forward slash podcast to apply.
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(29:42):
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(30:03):
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Thanks so much for listening,and we'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Powerof Authority Spotlight.
I'm your host, Michelle Prince, founderand CEO of Performance Publishing Group,
making a difference one story at a time.
We'll be shining the light on successfulfounders, entrepreneurs, business
owners and leaders that are gettingresults and making a difference.
We'll talk about how they builttheir businesses, are creating
(00:26):
movements and leveraging the powerof authority in their own lives.
Be sure to stick around to theend of the show and we'll reveal
how you can be our next guest.
Let's get started.
Hey everybody and welcome to thePower of Authority Spotlight where
we shine the light on entrepreneurs,business owners, leaders, and people
(00:47):
that are doing extraordinary things.
They're they're following theirpassion, they're living with purpose,
and they're making a difference.
And I cannot wait tointroduce you to two guests.
Today, but first this episode is broughtto you by performance publishing.
If you've ever thought aboutwriting a book, you can do it.
It is not as hard as you think.
You just got to get that, all ofthat out of your head onto paper and
we can help go get a free strategycall at performance publishing group.
(01:12):
com.
That's performance publishing group.
com.
Well, let me introduce youto my two guests today.
First is Jennifer Harris.
Jennifer is a mom, designer, entrepreneur,and recovering maximalist with over
20 years of experience designinginteriors, products, and graphics.
Her passion for problem solving andorganization drives her to create
(01:33):
personalized solutions that blendfunctionality with aesthetic appeal.
She hopes her story and ideas willinspire others to reclaim the functional
design of their personal real estate.
And then we also have Courtney Huckabee,who is a mom, therapist, trainer,
supervisor, coach, and entrepreneur.
She founded and led her professionalmental health group practice and has been
(01:55):
a therapist for over 18 years, workingwith families, children, and parents.
Her passion in life is helping peoplegrow personally and professionally,
though her first love remains her family.
Jennifer Courtney, welcome to the show.
Hello.
for having us.
I'm so excited to have you both on becauseI've had the privilege of getting to
(02:17):
see you bring this baby to life, whichis your new book, which just came out.
Just launched here recently calledreframe and reclaim, but tell
everyone a little bit more aboutthe book and how it came to be.
Yeah.
So the origin story of reframe and reclaimreally started about three years ago in
(02:38):
the fall of 2021, when I started noticingpatterns within my own family and how
we, our relationship with our belongings.
And I noticed thesepatterns were generational.
So from my grandparents to my mom, and.
For my family.
So my history is I have alot of sentimentality when
it comes to belongings.
(02:59):
So both my grandfathers passedaway when I was nine years old.
My father passed away when I was, was 15.
And so for me, this book really started asevaluating my sentimentality around these
items and how I put so much emphasis.
on these sentimental items aroundmy loved ones who had passed away.
So that started me thinking and Ireached out to Courtney, who's a mental
(03:23):
health professional, and we just startedhaving conversations about why do I
do these things or people in general,why they do these things and why they
have You know, have the self identityand this emphasis on their belongings.
And so we had these conversationsand it kind of morphed into,
Hey, you want to write a book?
Like, I think this could bereally helpful for people.
(03:44):
So the way the book is formattedis it starts out with me sharing
my personal journey and my storiesabout how I've used certain excuses
or how I have not let go of.
So I really don't need any more.
They're not serving a purpose in my home.
Some are even not, someare even negative feelings.
(04:04):
You know, I keep the item, but it hasa real negative connotation to it.
So why am I keeping these items?
So this book is really the story of myjourney and journey of other clients.
We have helped and how we're able tolet go of items that aren't serving
us in our current life chapter.
I think this is huge because so manypeople, and I can relate, I won't,
(04:26):
I'll tell you more of my storiesbecause, but I totally get it, and you
don't want to throw away something,especially if somebody's passed away,
but what is the psychology behind that?
You know, Courtney, why do we do this?
Why do we hold on?
Well, there, there's so much behind this.
And so, you know, it's not a simple,Oh, this is why, you know, and so
(04:46):
really we learn a lot about how we dolife and about our, our identities,
how we connect with others throughwhat we see other people doing.
And so, one of the things thatJennifer and I really found is it's.
Really generational for her.
There was a lot of, well, my mom keptthings and my grandfather kept things.
And so I just know that you keepthings, but we actually go through many
(05:11):
different excuses or justificationsof why we hold on to things or why we
acquire things in the book and it'slaid out like that in the chapters.
And so there's differentjustifications and each justification
is highlighted by each chapter.
Yeah, you mentioned the word generationsand I'm curious if there's any connection
(05:34):
to my grandmother was and, you know,came in the World War Two kind of the or
actually she was in the Great Depression.
And I know I remember as a little girl shewould even save and reuse paper towels.
Long after she had, theyhad plenty of money, right?
But there was, so is that maybe whatsome of this generational, like they,
(05:57):
they, they didn't have anything.
So they kept everything.
And then the next generation islike, well, if my mom kept it,
maybe we should care, kept keep it.
And then the green, itjust goes on and on and on.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's definitely a part of that.
And I think what's so hardis, you know, we also create
habits in our life, you know?
So maybe my habit is I collect thesethings or, you know, I try to find
(06:18):
Things that are valuable or keepthings that could be worth value.
And I keep that habit until itdoesn't serve me anymore, or I realize
it's not really helpful for me.
So we really do try to explore andunpack lots of different psychologies
around our identities and our habitsand our connections with our things.
(06:38):
One of the things I really loveabout the book is you have a
collection of case studies.
And you know, to really paintthe picture of what, what,
what this really looks like.
Do you mind sharing a coupleof those or some, give us some
ideas of what's really going on.
So like Jen said, a lot of itstarts with her own Like history
(07:01):
and, and sharing her story.
And then we try to find people whowould be willing to let us try some
of our ideas with our reclaim process.
We have a seven step process thatwe've identified, we formulated, and
we thought this would be really good.
And so we asked for volunteers toopen up their homes and let us come
(07:23):
in and step in and being a counselor,you know, a little bit about.
My theory of working with people is notto say, this is how you got to do it.
Let me show you.
I'm the expert, but really havingit client led and what's different
about this book and some other booksthat might be out there is we don't
come in and do for the person weactually have them tell us what to do.
(07:45):
What they need.
And so we go through the seven, sevensteps and we ask them the questions
along the way and trying to findout what they hope their function
of their design of their space.
What has, what is one of the challengesthat they're facing when it comes to
their space, and we actually let themmake the decisions as we decide one
(08:09):
thing versus another is this a keep,or is this a donate, or is this a give
Give to somebody else who might be, um,wanting this or conserve them as well.
I would love for you totake us through those seven.
And so people can write them down too.
So, and I know you've touched on it,but just step, what is number one?
Number one is reflect.
(08:31):
Okay.
We want to make sure that the reflectingon how the space is currently used,
what is in their space, how their spacefeels when they're in their space.
We also wanted them to ask, like,what they want their space to be.
Okay.
As well.
So maybe one way and what is, what isthe hope that they want at the end?
(08:53):
Okay.
So reflect, stop, you know, reallyevaluate basically what you want.
What's number two?
Well, that leads us intoE, which is evaluate.
So, okay.
Or I, I'm sorry.
So you, I said seven step,but it is the acronym.
It is reclaim.
Yes.
Right.
So R is reflect E is evaluate, evaluate.
(09:17):
And so the evaluate step really is gettingto the root of why you were holding on
to this item and what it's giving you.
And so.
For so how it's like Courtney was sayinghow it's broken up in the book is by
the different excuses we tell ourselves.
And so someone who keeps somethingbecause of sentimental versus someone
(09:38):
who's keeping an item because it's, youknow, might be worth something someday.
Or, you know, I might use it one daybecause The whole great depression
mentality is going to, we're goingto ask different questions based on
those excuses so that we can reallyget to the root of the problem.
Love that.
So ease, evaluate and what's next.
(09:58):
So after we do that, we'regoing to make sure that we
clean and clear out the space.
So it's really hard to see how the spacecan be without how everything already is.
And that's really just like takingeverything out, clearing out the space
and seeing it for what it could be andreally letting your mind get creative and
(10:19):
evaluating what you would like it to be.
I like that.
Okay.
Clean.
And also thinking about how you feelwhen it's clean and empty, because
you may look at it and be like, Oh,I didn't know it could feel this way.
I really don't want to put allthis stuff back into it because
I feel good seeing empty.
This is so fascinating to me.
I really, it is.
(10:40):
It's just the connection between the two.
So anyway, we'll keep goingbecause I know everyone wants
to continue to what they are.
What is L?
L is layout.
And so this is as you, before youput the room back together, really
thinking about the things that youreflected on in the evaluate process,
or evaluate step, I should say.
(11:00):
Is what you want to put back in and howthis room needs to function for yourself.
So whether it's sketching out likethis is where I want furniture to go,
or in my pantry, you know I snacksare what I always go to so I need that
at eye level so I can grab it quicklyand put the heavier items down low.
So, you know, thinking about how you thefunctionality of it for your everyday
use laying out to that specification.
(11:25):
And then.
Will you go into the next ? Right.
And then we go into, next, wego into a, which is so as, yeah.
So as we create like a blueprint,you know, it might be a sketch, it
might be like, you know, measuringoff and putting some, some things
to show where things would go.
We actually start to assembleand we say what is priority?
(11:46):
What is something that, if this is tofunction and feel as you had imagined.
What has to go back in and we startthere and we start to assemble
and see, okay, how does this feel?
Now you see this in the space.
Now that you have this in thespace, do we need to adjust anything
in the, as we're putting it backinto the actual physical space?
(12:08):
So good.
So good.
All right.
And then our reason to I, sothe I in reclaim is inspect,
and this is really, important.
It's a step that I don't think a lotof people take into consideration
and really give it enough value.
You want to take a step back, lookat the space and say, is this really
going to function how I want it to?
(12:29):
And it's okay if it doesn't.
So if you take a step back and you'relike, you know, I really need this item.
More eye level, or this itemreally should go in another room.
So I can fit the things Ineed in this space here.
That's where you do that in this step andjust take that final gut check to make
sure it's going to function how you want.
Okay.
So smart.
Yes.
(12:51):
And then the final what's M so M.
Is the hardest and thelongest step of the process.
And this is maintained.
So, um, a lot of times we see, we takea few hours, a couple of days, and
we create a space and then we livein the space and we use the space.
(13:11):
And this is where a lot of times, um,the space no longer is functioning
the way we started or intended.
So this is really looking atwhat steps do I need to take?
Who do I need to also bring into this?
And create expectations for this spaceso that it does continue to function
and feel the way it does right now.
(13:33):
Wow.
How did you two come up with this?
I know you talked in the book and I,and I had a little bit of a, you know,
insider view on this, but really how did,how did you come up with that framework?
It's really very interesting.
It's not just clever, butit's very functional and it
makes a ton of sense to me.
Yes.
Well, it was, it was really lookingat, I feel like people, whenever they,
(13:56):
this is going to be a generalization,but when people look at design shows
or organizational shows, or when theywant to go and organize something,
they think it's one and done.
It's like, I'm going to buy these bins.
I'm going to put it in here.
It's going to be beautiful.
And I never have to touch it again.
But like, so.
Not like that, right?
Our life changes.
I mean, if I say like, if I could knowwhich snack my kid is going to have
(14:16):
as their favorite, you know, from weekto week, that would be a huge help.
But if they want somethingthat's two inches wide compared
to one inch wide, that's goingto vary my space in my pantry.
Right.
And so being able to be flexible.
And understand that you will haveto come back to it and make it work
for you is a really important step.
And I think, you know, about 70 to80 percent of a system will continue
(14:40):
to work, but we need to have theabout 20 percent that stays flexible
for just changing lifestyles.
Very good.
So yeah, go ahead.
Well, and I was going to mentionwith that too, is the maintaining
is not that this space has tocontinue to function this way.
And that's the coming back to reflectingagain, if you know, the kids are in
(15:00):
diapers and now the kids aren't in diapersor the kids like this snack and don't
like this snack, or I have an office.
Now I don't need a home office,or I have this hobby and
now I don't have that hobby.
We can really come back to you.
Coming back to this again, the nextyear or three years from now, and it's
something that is always evolving anda living process is what it really is.
(15:24):
So the people that you, who volunteered,you went into their homes, give me an
example of what happened as you tookthem through this seven step process.
Let me take that Jen, ordo you want to take that?
So we, we all, as we werewriting this book, some of our
friends and family knew about it.
And we talked to some other peoplewho might be interested and we just
(15:47):
asked, Hey, we're writing a book.
Would you be comfortable for us comingin one of our clients out of necessity?
She's like, I'm moving.
I have this.
and I've got to figure outwhat to do with all this stuff.
I haven't seen this stuff in years.
I don't want to do this, but I knowif you're offering help, I need help.
And so we actually started the dayand did some you know pre interview,
(16:09):
which is in, in the book as well.
And how are you feeling, you know,what are your hopes for this time you
know what's kept you kept you from notstarting this process before whether
it's for you and really just gettingto know the client where they're at.
And reassuring that we're nothere to force you to get rid of
(16:29):
things or to throw things away.
Really, we just want to helpyou find better function.
And this client was telling us she hadavoided this space for over six years
because she just knew it was going totake too much time and too much effort.
And by the end of the day, wefinished everything in one day.
She had donated more thana car full of things.
(16:51):
She, Was so thankful thatwe went through this.
She was excited about hermove because she was moving.
She felt like she had found things thatshe didn't know she had lost or misplaced.
And she found things that she realized,I don't know why I was keeping this.
Like, what was I thinking?
So there is a lot of changein six years for this client.
(17:12):
And our hope for this bookis not to become minimalist.
It's just really finding whatfunctions and what feels good for you.
I love that because it's notjust about functionality.
It is also about the feeling part of it.
And if it really meanssomething to you, right.
It brings you joy and, you know,and not, you know, then, then
(17:33):
keep it and find a place for it.
But let me give you a scenarioand you tell me if, how you would,
how you would approach this.
So let's just use themoving example again, right?
So somebody is moving and they've pulledout all the things, like, let's just say
the attic or the storage shed or whatever.
And they realize that they have,have all of the pictures and all the
(17:58):
memorabilia of somebody who has passedmom, dad, grandma, whoever it is.
What do you do with that stuff?
It's from this generation.
They can't use it.
But there's this guilt tiedto, but I can't throw it away.
It was mom.
So I, I have become an expert in thisarea because this is a lot, right?
(18:21):
So for me, I had to reallylook at what do I value?
And it wasn't like, you know,I had to look at it as, as
like very almost existential.
Like if my house burned down and Ilost everything, what do I truly value?
What do I want?
And what would I be heartbroken if I lost?
And so it was really the family photos.
(18:44):
And I thought about it though.
And I was like, well, all my family photosare stored in boxes and albums, like at
the bottom of my entertainment center.
And if there was a fire,could I easily go grab those?
Could I save those?
You know, is it in a place?
Where if I truly value it, I can get it.
And so for me, I took a step back and Idigitized all my really important photos.
(19:06):
It did, it was a process andtook some time, but I was
able to digitize the photos.
Any objects that were reallysentimental to me, I took photos
of, I bought a light box, Courtneywas there, we have it on video.
We had a weekend of it.
Yes.
And you know, I just talked throughthe items and why this is important
and why I wanted to keep it.
(19:27):
So I was able to take photos of itand then I could easily let it go.
And you know, if I'm honest withmyself, Am I going to go back and
look at some of these sentimentalitems like my childhood toys?
Maybe not.
Probably not.
But for me, it stored on anexternal hard drive that I keep in
my fireproof and waterproof safe.
(19:48):
So I know it's safe and I can goaccess that whenever I want to.
And whenever I want to, youknow, revisit those memories.
Wow.
That is awesome advice.
And I have to tell you, selfishly, I askedthe question because we are getting ready
to move and we cleaned out a storage shedand it has, and my husband's mother has
(20:10):
passed his grandmother, his grandfather,and a great uncle that we took care
of, you know, up until their last days.
And so to have all of this importantstuff, That was so important in their
lives and yet it's nothing that we accessor do anything but that that feeling
the guilt that there is a psychological.
Right.
(20:30):
Well, we can't get rid of it.
Right.
And so I feel like you just, firstof all, kind of released me from this
like there is, there is an answer.
And in all the yearswe've lived in this house.
They were in a storage unit.
Like never once did we go through them.
So that is actually great,great, great advice.
Digitize the pictures.
(20:51):
Take pictures of something.
Yes.
And I, you know, something else that Idealt with is I have a three car garage.
So I have lots of storage space,but if I'm storing something out
in, you know, Texas, summers.
And if it's 110, 120 degrees,is it going to be preserved?
Am I really valuing this item?
If I'm storing it in thisheated garage, right?
(21:13):
Like it's, so it's just, yes.
Yes.
Right.
Right.
And I think it's so important.
Like there's not.
A one answer.
And so if you come across, you know,a grandparent's something special or,
or, you know, an item that belonged tothem, it's okay to say, I'm not ready
(21:34):
to let this go now, but are there otherthings that I feel comfortable with?
And so this isn't a one stop.
Sometimes it is.
I need time, or I need to talk to otherfamily members, or I heard a lot of people
say, I just don't want it to be wasted.
it.
I don't want it to be forgotten.
And so finding like an organization thatcan use those things or an organization
(21:58):
that can repurpose it or finding afamily member that would have a space
inside their home to display or touse one of those family heirlooms.
I think that has been a key is like notwanting people and their, and their legacy
to be forgotten, but yeah, that's it.
We're not really honoring them by keepingall of their things in a storage unit, but
(22:19):
that's what we feel like we need to do.
But what is going to bemore honoring to them?
Oh, go ahead, please, Jennifer.
I'm just going to say another example,one of our client case studies, it was,
you know, there was a curio cabinetwhere she kept all of these things
that were passed down to her fromher parents and from her loved ones.
But it's kind of that old saying, youknow, if you value everything you know you
(22:41):
don't value anything and so all of the,the really important pieces were hiding
behind other items that were also given.
But they just didn't hold the same value.
So by being able to edit out thoseitems that had a lower value, we
were able to really highlight andaccentuate those really joy filled
sentimental items that she will seeevery time she walks in her home.
(23:03):
And I heard you say earlier.
So once you've determined that,okay, you know, maybe I'm not
keeping her, maybe, but that you saidthere's three really like buckets,
if you will, is it the donate?
Yeah, there's a giveaway.
What was that?
What was it?
Well, we have, there'salways trash, unfortunately.
Okay.
There's trash, you know,there's donate, there's keep.
(23:24):
And then sometimes we have a maybe pilewhere it's like, I'm not quite sure.
And again, going back to theassemble inspect process.
It's like, Oh, I do havespace for one more item.
I could put this in or Oh, Ineed to take this other item out.
So, Yeah.
Right.
And I think that, you know, I'mactually one of the case studies.
I, we all, I, again, this is not justa Jennifer storytelling, you know,
(23:48):
we all, you know, I think you too,Michelle have found like a place of how
this might help or fit in their lives.
But for me, um, I had these dollsthat were passed down to me by my
grandmother who has also passedand a very important person to me.
One of my closestrelationships I've had in life.
But I was told not to play with thesedolls because they were too valuable.
(24:11):
So for 30 plus years, they werestored inside my home, not in the
Texas heat in my closet, in a box.
And they just sat there.
So what I did instead is Icontacted family and I said,
these were grandmothers.
Does anybody want these?
I want her to be remembered.
They were important for her, but I'm not.
(24:32):
Appreciating and how she wanted me to.
And I, you know, I want somebodyto display them, use them.
And I was able to gift them to two of myfamily members so that they could keep
those things that were hers and honorher and me feel comfortable with that.
I feel like this book is goingto release a lot of that guilt.
(24:53):
And also a little shame maybe oflike, well, why is my house fluttered?
And, you know, because like for youboth to have gone through and deal with
this and me too, you know, I think it'sso many people struggle with this, but
it's, it's just one of those things.
You don't talk about it.
It's just like, well, it just goesto the next house and then to the
(25:13):
next house and to the next house.
So I think you're releasingpeople from a lot of that.
And I think what you're doing is, and nopun intended, but you're really, Helping
them to reclaim, you know, their space andwhat matters to them and what brings them
joy and fulfillment and all those things.
and it starts with the reframing ofhow does, how do I value this and is it
(25:35):
important to me and do I value it forwhat reasons and claiming the space,
reclaiming the space and the function.
Cause sometimes I'm like, I have to keepthis because it was, you know, so and sos
I, you know, it was gifted to me, I'vegot a display and it doesn't really fit
the function or the aesthetic you want.
So working on that mental and emotionalpiece is really important in our book.
(25:59):
Yes.
So I know people listening are going towant to, for first of all, they're going
to want to get the book and they're alsogoing to want to get in touch with you.
So what is some of the bestways that they can do both?
Well, they can follow us onInstagram at reframe underscore
reclaim, where we show a lot of whatwe're doing and tips and tricks.
We also have our Facebook pageat reframe amber sand reclaim.
(26:23):
And then our website is reframe dashreclaim, where they can go and pick up
our book and there's links to Amazon and.
Barnes and Noble and otherbooksellers that they can get to.
Yeah.
And I highly recommend those listening.
Definitely go get it.
It's, it's, it's a great book.
It's an easy read.
And I think it's somethingthat can make a huge impact in
people's lives and homes and yes.
(26:45):
And, but he said, I hope ladies,
so, so much for being on the show.
I just adore both of you andI'm so excited for this journey
and this is just the beginning.
For what you're goingto do to help people.
Well, we want to thank youand performance publishing.
It has really been a joy and a reliefto work with somebody who would guide us
(27:07):
through all of the publishing process,because it does feel overwhelming when
you haven't written a book before.
So I just want to say thankyou to all of your team.
It's been a really,really wonderful pleasure.
Oh, yes.
Thanks for helping us tell our story.
You are so welcome.
All right.
Well, I'm going to wrap this up.
And so I just want to make sure forthose of you who are listening, and
if you didn't have a pen earlier, I'mgoing to have it and you have it now.
(27:30):
What are those steps?
So again, it's all about, you got toreclaim or reframe and then reclaim, but
what are those seven steps that Jenniferand Courtney shared is number one is
the R in reclaim is reflect, right?
Really taking in What,what do I really want?
How, how, what do I envision?
All of that has to happen beforeyou can do anything else because
then you go to E, which is evaluate.
(27:51):
Get to the root of why areyou holding on to some things?
Why, why, why is it in your home?
Is it important to youor does it an obligation?
Then we go to C, which is you gotto clean and clear out, right?
I love that because until you,you can't just move things around.
You really have to get rid of it alland then determine what you want back
in, which is where the L comes in.
(28:12):
How do you want it laid out?
How is it going to be functional for you?
And that's super, super important tothink through in this whole process.
Then we move into a, which standsfor assemble and really thinking
back, you know, what is the priority?
What, what has to go back in?
What, what doesn't need to go back in?
That's all part of the assemble stage.
Then we go into inspect, whichis, does it function for me?
(28:34):
Does it really work the way Iwant it to in my everyday life?
And then finally, the M in reclaim ismaintain because And, and, and part of
that also goes back to the beginning ofreflect because something may work today
that may not work six months from now.
So you have to maintain it, butthen go back, reflect just to make
sure, does it still work for you?
So I highly recommend again, you,you get this book and go to their
(28:56):
website at reframe dash reclaim.
com.
And I just want to thank you all forlistening and we'll see you next time
on the power of authority podcast.
Bye now.
Bye.
Thanks so much for listening tothe Power of Authority Spotlight.
If you are a successful founder,entrepreneur, business owner, or
(29:20):
leader that's getting results andmaking a difference, and you'd
like to be on this program, pleasevisit performancepublishinggroup.
com forward slash podcast to apply.
That's performancepublishinggroup.
com forward slash podcast.
Also, if you got somethingout of this video, interview,
please share this episode.
Just do a quick screenshot withyour phone and text it to a
(29:42):
friend or post it on the socials.
If you know someone that would be a greatguest, tag them on social media to let
them know about the show and include thehashtag, the power of authority spotlight.
I love seeing your postsand guest suggestions.
We are regularly putting out newepisodes and content, so make sure you
don't miss any episodes by subscribing.
(30:03):
Your thumbs up ratings and reviews goa long way to help promote the show
and mean a lot to me and my team.
Wanna know more?
Go to our websites performancepublishing group.com or michelle
prince.com and follow me onLinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
Thanks so much for listening,and we'll see you next time.
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