2023 Arizona Cardinals training camp preview

Training camp has begun for the Arizona Cardinals. Jess and Seth talk about recent roster moves, what they can't wait to see, what position battles will be heating up and the players who could surprise.

Episode Transcript

(00:13):
This is the Rise Up Sea Redpodcast, all about the Arizona Cardinals and
the NFL, featuring insider and outsiderperspectives. Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals
talk on the web. Now Hereare your hosts, Jess Root and Seth
Cox. Hello Arizona Cardinals fans,and welcome to the latest edition of the

(00:35):
Rise Up Secret Podcast. I'm yourhost Jess Root from cardswire dot com the
USA. Today in the NFL Wiresite cover the Arizona Cardinals and back after
after a little bit of a break. It's a regular show with me,
It's Revenge of the Birds. SethCox m Espionations Arizona Cardinals site Espionations Reverns
of the Birds. Also one ofthe hosts of the Original Breakdown Original Draft

(00:58):
Breakdown podcast. Set How has itbeen getting the time off, getting out
of town for a little bit andthen getting the kiddos back in school.
Ah, you know, it's beenbusy. I wish it was not,
but you know, five kids thatall do athletics and things like that,
it's been even busier. So it'syou know, it's been Tuesday nights were

(01:22):
nice, but at the same timewe still had practices, so just and
I came home and eight dinner ateight o'clock instead of coming home, eating
dinner eight o'clock then jumping on apodcast. Well, we were back in
podcast season and everything just got busyfor us for the next several months because
the year isn't The Cardinals reported fortraining camp on Tuesday. This episode four

(01:47):
hundred and forty seven. This isour training camp preview. So if you
if you haven't over the last twoweeks, I had fourteen opponent preview shows
in fourteen days. Those are allavailable um and you know, hopefully you've
subscribed so they're already on your device. But starting with the NFC West teams,

(02:07):
then the last placed teams on theirschedule, then the AFC North teams,
and then the NFC East teams.I talked to fourteen USA USA Day
NFL Wire managing editors and or writersand talked about the Cardinals, kind of
previewed those Cardinals opponents for the comingseason. So catch those shows. They

(02:28):
were, you know, fewer,fewer, a little bit bored. They've
got so much content. But setthis back, it's time talk training camp.
Well and just for those if youdo miss them on Justice site somehow
somewhere. I'm about three days behind, so they end up on my site
as well, so you'll definitely haveopportunities to see them if for some reason

(02:50):
you missed them on Justice site,and if you haven't subscribed to the show
yet, somewhere on Spotify, Applepodcast, Come on, what are you
doing? We We are literally atthe ten year mark of this show then,
and I believe Yeah, I thinkI can't remember the date, but
it was like some it was likethis week in twenty thirteen when I did

(03:13):
the premier show. I think Idid a soul I can't. I think
I did a solo show, andthen I did a like I ranked to
the quarterbacks back in the day,and then I had a little interview with
Larry Fitzgerald through one of his endorsements, and then we kind of started everything.
So yeah, but talking you know, training camp, they reported they
did their media day. I'm prettysure they did their their physicals, although

(03:37):
that might be tomorrow because they didn'tmake any pup moves or anything like that.
They did a couple of minor rostermoves, but but there were some
roster moves they made. We'll talkabout those and then we'll basically preview kind
of our expectations for training camp.But we're what we're most looking forward to,
not talking about position battles, whowhere we think the most interesting position

(04:00):
in roster battles are, and tryto pick out a few players who might
surprise over the course of training campand the preseason. So let's go ahead
and get started. The Cardinals announcedfive player editions and two deductions from the
roster. They went into this weekwith three roster vacancies. They had eighty

(04:25):
eight players on the roster. Theyhave they having ninety one man off season
roster because of the roster exemption forinternational tide end Bernhard Psychovits, and so
they added that. So they madesome moves. Let's run down those moves
really quickly, and then, well, what words the impact of that.
They signed a new long snapper,Jack Coco, who is the Green Bay

(04:46):
Packers a long snapper a season agoas a rookie, and making to make
room for him, they put undraftedrookie out of Oklahoma State Matt Hembro on
injured reserve, so he's done.They a signed center Pat elf Line,
former Minnesota Vikings. They signed veteranJet veteran tight end Jeff Swain and then

(05:08):
released Chris Pierce, was an undraftedrookie a year ago. And then they
added a pair of receivers davey OnDavis who played for the He was on
the Texans practice squad last year,but was coming off of season where he
played for the USFL Birmingham Stallions,the two time defending USFL champs, and

(05:29):
also added Cayden Davis, who wason Denver's practice squad last year. Of
those editions, for you set whichis or which are the most significant moves?
I think it's got to be kindof the quote unquote obvious ones of
Pat elf Line and Jeff Swain,Right, it probably signifies that with elf

(05:54):
Line they weren't exactly happy with orcomfortable. I guess comfortable is probably the
better word. With um fro Holtat center, you know, because I
think they're kind of depth chart waswhat fro hold hold and then literally four

(06:15):
NFL starts at center, and thosewere the only four well and those are
the only four NFL games for anyplayer on the roster at center. Uh,
they don't really have a depth chart, so I did, I didn't
see and what couldn't even if Isaw it, I couldn't really talk about
what the depth chart looked like.But we know who's in the mix at
center, the center, the guyswho players. There's Lucida Smith, who

(06:38):
would who learned the center last year? Uh, they drafted John Gaines,
he got a fewston I know,he got some reps at center early in
the off season. And and thenHayden Howarton, a guy that was with
I think the Titans and the Patriots. He played center in college. But
you know, yeah, so itjust feels like obviously pat you know,

(06:59):
comes and he maybe maybe if roHolt or Smith or Gains, you know,
one of those guys doesn't take holdof the situation. It's it's easy
to pivot to elf line who startedgames last year, right, So it's
it's a pretty simple thing. Andthen Swim's just a I mean, he's
like, he's a solid, ifunspectacular tight end. I mean, there's

(07:26):
not really much more you can sayabout it in terms of that. He's
just a he's a very good mpro. I mean, I guess that's
probably the best way to put it. He's a guy that has been very
successful in the NFL. And hasplayed for a long time, but he's

(07:49):
never been a standout, right,and so you know Swim or sorry going
back to elf line real quick.He played six games at guard last year,
but before that he played nine gamesat center for UM Carolina and then
he's kind of bounced around since heleft the Minnesota Vikings. You know,
Swim is a guy that it makessense. I mean, you're talking about

(08:11):
a guy that will come in uhGia monte Asinport knows what he gets out
of him. I don't think there'sbeen any crossover with UH with pet sing
or or those guys. But youknow, he's been with Tennessee the last
three seasons. UM. You know, it's is basically a guy that plays

(08:33):
about fifty percent of the snaps everyevery season since in Tennessee. UM,
and it probably signifies that. Eventhough when do they have to designate pup?
I think tomorrow, yeah, ortomorrow is when they will make the
moves because practice begins on Thursday.Don't they did their condition test today?

(09:01):
I know the media will get tosee a closed practice tomorrow, so maybe
they did their conditioning tests today already, or they'll do the conditioning test and
have a I don't know what that'sgoing to do, but I know before
they actually start practice that has tohappen because that's how because yeah, pup
has to happen then, because ifyou're not on it, then you can't
ever be put on it. Yeah, and so you look at it,

(09:24):
you know, and it'll be outbefore this releases. Likely we shouldn't say
definitely, but likely that we'll knowthat probably zach Ertz is either on the
pup or not ready to go.However, you know it'll be a couple

(09:46):
weeks into the season. So bringingin a Jeff Swain right, a guy
that's a veteran tight end, becausethat was something we talked about what a
couple of weeks ago, right,We were like, well, they got
Trey McBride and then it's a lotof guys, but you don't want to
When I was doing my roster previews, I've been going through player by player,
and I was like, what aretheir chances of making the roster?

(10:09):
You've got ERTs, You've got Mcbridey'remaking the roster after that, Literally everyone
is young and improvement. There's noAUTOSII, who's got a handful of games
and he knows Jonathan Gannon. Butthe rest of it is like they got
a couple of priority free agent signeesin the undrafted group. They like Blake

(10:31):
Whiteheart out of wake fours. Theyguarantee two hundred thousand dollars of a salary,
so it kind of feels like he'sgonna be in the mix. But
adding Swimming there, it then takesall of those young guys and it feels
like they're probably now battling for perhapsa spot on the roster slash practice squad
places, although I imagine Ertz willbe ready. But it gives you three

(10:56):
legitimate guys. Swain doesn't catch theball a lot, but if you're if
you're talking about the type of offensethat they you know that they want to
run. That he was doing apower run blocking type things while he was
with Tennessee, and so that's kindof what you want to see. Elf
Line's interesting because what are the twopositions on the offensive line that are really

(11:16):
feel uncertain center and left guard,and those are the positions that elf Line
has played. Now. I don'tknow if you want to come in and
say that we're going to count onalf Linn to do anything the dudes played
in twenty two games over the lastthree seasons combined. He's never made it
through an entire season playing every game. He was at fourteen fourteen, fifteen,
Now, I mean that's good enoughfor offensive line, but then seven

(11:37):
nine and six. You know,he was a guy that early in the
offseason I kind of pegged as apotential guy because he does have ties with
Petsing because he was there in Minnesotawhen Petsing was there from twenty seventeen to
and beyond so and that's when heplayed center mostly then was with men Soda.

(12:01):
But I mean, I think whatit does is just a stat it
creates a little more competition because wealways felt, honestly, did we really
think when they were trying to kocreate a steady, veteran offensive liner,
talented UF and sign kind of upgradethat they were gonna leave that pivot position
to a guy that's played four NFLgames at the position. I never I

(12:22):
never thought that, unless that unlessthey were a gam that's one of those
gambles, like hey, scouting,we think he's gonna be good. But
it just felt like, you know, Roltz is what he is, Like,
he's a guy that you if theyadded him for depth, sweet,
You're like, he's gonna be thestarter. I'm a little worried about that.
So off Line's a guy who youknow can do it, but you

(12:46):
don't know how long he's gonna beable to because that list of centers that
was available old and broken. He'stwenty nine years old, so but he
falls into the broken category that basicallythe centers that were left on them were
old and broken. Rodney Hudson,who's retired, Ben Jones, guys like
that. We kind of thought thatthat would be the direction. But elf

(13:09):
Line makes sense. It'll be interesting. I feel like that'll be a competition
between him and froll Holtz or orsomething like that, or because I don't
think elf Line is necessarily going tobe in the mix and left guard because
they've got two guys, two veteranguys I think that they trust for the
left guard position, and Elijah Wilkinsonand Dennis daily sway makes sense. I

(13:31):
have my eye just kind of myeye just in a little bit a little
bit, and that's on the longsnapper Jack Coco, because he has played
a full NFL season, snapped everygame for the Packers, last season,
they had an undrafted guy and thenresigned Aaron Brewer late in the off season,
supposedly he was healthy. So byadding Coco, I'm wondering if it's

(13:56):
which one of these it is.If it is, I'm merrily competition.
Were they brought back brew because theyknow what he is, but they're trump
maybe trying to move on, ortwo because brew was injured. If it
is, the intention is to slowroll him back, is to you know,
recondition and have a plan for himto slowly get those reps up.

(14:20):
I'm not sure which one of thoseit is. Although at Brewer's age and
the fact that he's had a coupleof injuries, it wouldn't be bad to
have a guy in the building thatyou can trust. And since Coco played
a full season in the NFL,I feel much more comfortable with a guy
like him. Yeah, and thatmakes sense. And you know, my
only speculation is that they just wantsomebody and just in case something goes wrong,

(14:45):
right, or just a limited snaps, because that's that's what I mean
for Brewer. Yeah, like eitherhe's not fully healthy or in case they
are worried about a recurrence or thingslike that. You know they have somebody
already on because that is one ofthe things we've talked about before. Right,
long snappers get snapped up, nopun intended, and then like literally

(15:07):
aren't available for like eight to tenyears. Right Totally. The two receivers
I would consider those are mostly kindof you know, they're just trying.
They's just churning the roster type thing. They add a couple of receivers to
the room, they don't have alot of They don't have a lot of
spots available for the for the receiverroom. You know, Marquis is gonna

(15:28):
Hollywood's gonna be there. You know, Roddalmore is gonna be there. You
know, Zach Pascal's gonna be there, Michael Wilson's gonna be there. You
presume Greg Dortsch is gonna be there. I don't think it's a lock this
year because it's a new coaching staff. But if they're gonna keep six receivers,
you have four maybe five that arelocks. And then after that it's
a battle of who who's gonna competefor that, and I think both guys

(15:54):
the kid out of Birmingham for USFL, Davian Davis, and then Kayden Davis.
I think both Davises are the Davisis. I think the both Davises
are simply there. Can't bodies weretrying to prove themselves. So they're there

(16:14):
guys to kay, Hey, let'ssee what they have, right, And
that's kind of what we're looking atnow and seeing what they can what they
can figure out with all of this. And that's the key with with these
things is obviously there's so much unknownmoving in so we just kind of have

(16:37):
to um be patient and see howthis plays out. But these feel and
and I you know, we hatesaying this. It's not like we want
this to be true or anything likethat, but it just feels like they're
can't bodies. Yeah Yeah. Comingup next on the Rise of your at
podcasts, Cardios talking the web.Let's move on and talk about what we're

(16:57):
looking forward to most in this trainingcamp that's coming to next rise ups.
You read we're back on the Riseof Sred podcast But Stef Cardinal's talk on
the web of seth Cox and Italking about the ears in a Cardinal's training
camp. It is the training camppreview. Want to talk about what are
we looking for? Not the positionbattles. We're gonna talk about that next.

(17:17):
But what is it that we arelooking for? What are we're most
looking forward to? Training? Campis is an interesting time. But for
me, I'm going to say this, you know, while there are low
expectations, I am, you know, part fan, but part just for
my part of the job what wedo. I'm super intrigued about camp because

(17:37):
this will be the first time weget to see how they're lining up,
what types of you know, whattypes of work are they doing, what
types of plays are they running andpracticing, how does the defense line up.
And that's not it's not gonna necessarilypredict things, but you can see
personnel groups, some of the playsthat they kind of draw up, how

(18:00):
the rotation looks so far that Igeek out about that side of type of
stuff. I like paying attention tothat because it kind of, you know,
lends us to believe what the progressionis on the roster moving forward.
So Number one is I'm excited tosee some of the actual football and how

(18:23):
that's gonna look because we spent thelast four seasons with Cliff Kings where we
got used to that and you know, we've seen how rosters will put together
before this is all new. I'mexcited for that. Yeah, that's one
of the big things that I'm lookingforward to. And you know, I
break it down into a couple things. Obviously we're not talking about battles,

(18:45):
but I'm looking forward to you know, for me, like the football nerd,
I want to see the deployment offormations and things like that, but
I know that's gonna be more mostlylimited, especially in the open practices and
things like that. Secondly, I'mreally interested to see the rotations in general,

(19:12):
you know, not even the likehead to heads, but like,
how are these how are these rotationsgoing to look along the defensive line,
at the at the linebacker position especially, uh. And then and then there's
individual like players that I'm interested inobviously, I mean we can go with

(19:33):
the you know, the easy oneslike Isaiah Simon and Zavian Collins. Right
we all offseason they were working atdifferent positions. They continue to do that
or right or was it like thatthe coaches kind of suggested, is they're
creating versatility for Zavin Collins, butlike he's in a new defense. If
he's not getting any reps inside backer, you can't really think he's gonna

(19:53):
get reps it inside backer. Butwe'll see Simmons what like, They yeah,
he's a safety, and he saidhe's a safety. And even the
team on their on their graphics whenhe interviewed has him as a safety.
They just haven't changed him on theteam site roster. But yeah, I
want to see I do want tosee the those guys and how they look,

(20:15):
honestly, and and I'll tell youthis too, I'm really excited.
There's a couple of guys I'm reallyexcited about. First one Papoa Um I
think you know obviously the another easyone's Paris Johnson. But uh, Papoa
he just screams a Jonathan gannon linebacker? Does he not like that? Just

(20:38):
athletic, semi undersized, kind offreaky talent um, you know, kind
of similar to Kaisier White. Butand again, you know, only he
played linebacker because Kaisier White was.But it also it also won't mean that
he'll be like or be as goodas Kaisier White. But man, Papo

(21:02):
is one of the freakiest athletes we'veever seen at the linebacker position. I
mean, he's just a freak welland you know what, which kind of
interesting because who is who is thatlinebacker last year? But he came out
of Auburn too, he was hewas the exact opposite. He looked really
good but was unathletic, well yeah, relatively unathletic, but he was an

(21:22):
Auburn linebacker. So you get getPapo who's coming out out of Auburn but
freaky athletic, and you if hecan come out with some of the same
technique and skills, You're like,there's some real potential there. Who is
that guy last I can't remember hisname, Chandler Wooten, Yes, Chandler
Wooten. Everyone, everyone like certainguys on your side, like he got
a lock for Oh no, there'sno no, he's not gonna make that.

(21:45):
Yeah, he's not gonna make it. So you know, I'm excited
to see some of these guys becauseI think they're gonna be fun players,
and I'm excited to see, likeyou said, how they're deployed, how
they're use I'm I'm excited to seehow I mean, I don't know what
we're gonna calm, but we cantry to, you know, coin a
phrase, but like, how arethe Munchkins, Like, how do the
munchkins look like? Between Marky's Brown, Rondel Moore, Greg Dortch, Like,

(22:10):
how do they look in this offense? Um? And are they able
to stay on the field or isit going to force guys like Zach Pascal
and Michael Wilson to get reps right? Like all of these things to me
are really intriguing, um because it'snot necessarily position battles, but I want
to see how they're like, howthey're playing, and how they're used and

(22:30):
things like that, because I mean, I know you and I've talked about
it already, but like these positionbattles, Like, I don't feel like
you and I have a strong opinionon who we want to win the position
battles. We're just we're just kindof like, let's see how this works
out. But it's going to beinteresting to see, you know, even

(22:52):
who's playing in them. Yeah,totally. And of course, what might
be the biggest intrigue is at whatpoint does Kyler start practicing if in fact,
he has a week one goal.I don't think that's going to be
realistic, but does he start offtraining camp on pup? Does he like
and if he isn't that sign thatcould signal perhaps that he's gonna get some

(23:18):
work in training camp and they'll stillroll him. But how much work does
Kyler get? Um? How muchwork does zach Ertz get? And and
on the smaller side is who arethe guys that are injured that we didn't
know about? Who are who arecoming to cannon are nursing injuries that no
one knew about? Yeah, that'salways a question, isn't it? Like

(23:42):
who comes in and you're like,Oh, this guy's not ready or this
guy's hurting. Let's let's be honest. There are certain guys while while you've
kind of hit the nail on thehead about like it's it's a new system.
Everybody needs to be active and outthere, there's certain guys we just
don't worry too much about, right, James Connor, Buddha Baker Um,

(24:07):
you know DJ Humphrey, even thoughhis health is always you know, kind
of a question. He's been aroundenough, you know so. But then
but then there's everybody else and it'slike a guy like, for instance,
Will Hernandez right who's coming off ofa injury kind of like season and is

(24:33):
fighting for now a long term contract. You know, he's back on a
short term contract. Is he ableto make it through a full season and
you know, stay healthy. ObviouslyBrown and More are question marks all the
time, right like those guys.I mean we talked about it with Brown

(24:57):
last year when they traded for himand then and obviously More's been this way
since college, Like are they ableto stay on the field and compete consistently
the defensive side, I mean,knock on wood. Right now, there's
not as many guys that have Imean, obviously Antonio Hamilton had the freak
accident last year, which which wasdevastating, but um, you know there's

(25:21):
not there's not as many guys.But you know, between between Brown and
More, like I said, Humphriesis a wild card. I mean,
you like to see him healthy becausehe's you know, he's an important piece,
but he's also a veteran, solike it's not like he needs all

(25:41):
the time in the world. Butalso if he's healthy, it's an improvement
over the fact that, like yousaid, he's not always healthy. So
it's just it's just an interesting dynamicbecause I feel like offensively, there's a
lot more questions about that than defensively, I'm not anxin resips here at podcasts
Cardinals Talk on the Web. Let'smove on and talk about now specifically the

(26:04):
position battles that mostly intrigue. Guessthat's coming to next and resips you read
you're back on the resips here atpodcasts Cardinals Talk on the Web. The
other part next part that will clearlybe of intrigue is and especially when you
get to the pro when the preseasongames, the position battles who's getting more
reps again ahead of whom, who'slooking better against guys that is always tough

(26:26):
because they mix and match who they'redoing reps against. And you know,
Cardinals on Cardinals stuff. Is it? You know, remember, for example,
Brandon Williams, that third that thirdround pick who is fairly new to
the position quarterback, just how greathe looked in draining camp against Michael Floyd
and then immediately looked like hot garbageand coverage on the field. Hey,

(26:51):
was it? Was it any coincidencethat Floyd didn't play well after that either?
YEA, yeah, you might havesomething there, But I mean,
especially like you get used to yourteammates and how they do things in the
play calls and things like that,so you can start anticipating type things.

(27:12):
But that said, I think,and I wrote about this like the most
notable position battle, and I thinkit's we're gonna be staring at right tackle
because you bring back Kelvin Beecham,who's who started a gazillion games in his
career, was the Cardinal starting backtackle for the last three seasons, and
then resign him to a two yeardeal. His money is completely guaranteed this

(27:36):
year, and then you go anddraft Paris Johnson and he should be the
now in the future. But Idon't think Kelly. I don't think Beacham's
gonna go down quietly. He's notgonna make it easy for it. So
I'm gonna be really interested to seehow that works out and and if at
all, where else does Beacham getwork, because I think there's a potential

(28:00):
as well, especially if Josh Jonesthat that that group of Paris Johnson,
Kelvin Beachham, and Josh Jones superintriguing to me because I don't think that
all three that there's room for allthree on the roster. Personally, when
you're building the offensive line, Ijust don't think you have enough spots to
have your left tackle, have aright tackle, and have two true other

(28:23):
tackles to do that, and sowe will beach him end up getting traded
because he's the type of guy,you know, veteran who could help a
playoff type team or a young teamwho's kind of building an end or is
trying to take the next step andthey have an injury. While Jones probably

(28:45):
has the higher you know, valuevalue because he's young, But is that
the type of guy you want tojust trade away when potentially you could bring
him back and he's one of yourstarting tackles depending on what they decided to
do with DJ Humphreys because you couldmove on from his contract this next year.

(29:08):
Yeah, and it's tough because you'vegot you know, this is what
happens when new regimes come in,right Like this is one of the things
is guys that were potentially intriguing youngguys now don't necessarily have a place on

(29:37):
the roster. And you know,you can, you can question it or
disagree with it all you want,but the reality is there's a legitimate chance
that this team looks at Elijah Wilkinsonand or Dennis Daily is a more valuable

(30:00):
asset than Josh Jones. That's notto say it's right or wrong. It
just might be for Monty, forpet saying, for for a Gannon for
those guys. They might view thoseguys as more valuable assets. Um well,
because both both are true like guardtackle swing guys. Because Elijah Wilkinson

(30:23):
can play guard, he can playtackle. Dennis Daily didn't play well at
tackle, but he started an entireseason at left tackle and can play guard.
And so in terms of versatility,Josh Jones can play tackle at guard.
But I bet that both the otherguys, Wilkinson and Daily are better

(30:45):
guards than Jones. Yeah, andso that's you know, that's just what
it comes down too. And it'sjust it's just situations like that that I
think are hard for fans to grasp. Wouldn't you agree, because yeah,
I mean and and nobody was abigger Jones fan than me, but you
you never fully and he earned alot of you know, bonuses for playing

(31:11):
time, stamps play and things likethat, but he never fully grabs a
position as a starter. And thenobviously they go out and draft a guy
and Paris Johnson who's going to likelyplay over him immediately. You know,
Beacham's a guy. I don't knowif I expect Beacham to be on a
move because I wonder if he's aguy that they want well because you know,

(31:33):
you know, he can play bothtackles, tackle and he can he
could slide in a guard. Ithink he's done that as guy. But
he's he like he could legitimately,he's he started most of his career left
tackle and now he started the lastthree at right tackle. So you know
he's a he's definitely reliable for sure. Um. Yeah, that that's that's

(31:56):
just super intriguing because like the waythey're building the roster, you would think
that maybe you would rather have Joneson the roster than beat him. If
if Paris Johnson years a startup,but maybe he's the guy that you want
to have. And he's signed fortwo years. His contract basically is hey,
he's gonna play this year and thenwe can figure things out next year.

(32:21):
But yeah, that's that's the numberone position. But now, but
honestly, there's two other Like there'sthe there's the highlight, that's there's the
premier battle at right tackle, butyou have a low key battle at left
guard because we don't know who's thereother than what I've been told that it
looks like probably Elijah Wilkinslin slash DennisAli. And now we have the center

(32:45):
one with Alflyne and Frohold. Sothree spots on the offensive line appeared to
have legitimate position battles. Yeah,and it's not surprising. I mean,
you're again a new regime. They'regoing to bring in the guys that they
want. Um and obviously Justin Pughleft, Rodney Hudson left or retired,

(33:12):
you know, And so those arethe those are the things that you look
at and kind of try to figureout. I'm also intrigued, you know,
we talked about it. Obviously Art'shealth matters, but if it's if
Ertz is unavailable, are the toptwo tight ends just going to be trade
mcbrider, Jeff's in dress swam ordo one of these younger guys potentially have

(33:37):
a chance, you know, aswim maybe brought in for the same thing
we discussed about with Elfine earlier oflike, hey, a veteran, we
know what we're gonna get out ofthis guy. Um can can one of
these guys beat him out? Typeof thing. Yeah, I guess that's

(34:00):
I guess that's totally true because yeah, because like it shows now some of
the guys, like they released ChrisPierce Snow, big deal, he was
an undrafted guy a year ago.I don't know where Zykovitz. Zykovitz is
in his development. It really feelslike that's just a continuous thing that they

(34:20):
used to have an extra guy onthe roster well, and and it's kind
of it's kind of like a commitmentthat they do when they when they got
that at it, like why wouldn'tyou it's an an international player, you
have the exemption, why wouldn't youkeep him on? But it does make
it a little bit different because it'scompletely new coaching staff, but they brought
in like TOJII kind of made senseas as kind of one of those guys

(34:42):
that's a glue guy on the roster, can play some special teams, but
it has only a handful of gamesin his career. But then when they
go out and the kid Blake Whitehearttwo hundred thousand dollars of guaranteed salary in
twenty twenty three, that sort ofsuggests they that he's gonna be here,

(35:05):
you know, that you know,if you remember, like if we go
back to Chris Traveler, they guaranteedthat much, and you know that they
made sure that he was on theroster um that you could you could do
the practice squad. And that's alittle bit more that I think, what
like the two hundred thousand a littlebit more than what a practice squad makes
all season. But like when youwhen you pay a guy that much,

(35:27):
it's kind of like drafting him.And then the other the Michigan tied and
Joe Honiford, who was a formeroffensive lineman. You know, the guy
as a guy as a blocking tightend. That's that's a specific little niche
that you can have on your roster. So yeah, I guess unless I
don't know if Swain was coming offof an injury at all. I see

(35:49):
he played every game last season.I was gonna say he played it.
But that's the thing is these guysare always banged up, especially this far
into their career. I mean,the reality is that they're not healthy ever
at this point. So you know, I am going through his injury list
stuff. He's a lot of it'sjust been um concussion related. He had

(36:15):
an ankle back in twenty twenty,so nothing since then. He's had a
ton of concussion only doubt. Soyeah, you know, we know McBride
and Hurts are going to be there, and it's just a matter of when

(36:36):
with her. So yeah, that'sjust because of like week one seems reasonable
because it's ten months out and soas I like to see that. But
I you'd think that the Swain move, if it were earlier in the off
season, would feel like he's alock for the roster days it Right now,
I'm probably gonna do a kind ofa pre training camp now that they

(36:57):
made some roster moves, a rosteryou know prediction. Maybe I'll wait till
the weekend to do that and Swimwill probably be on there. So we'll
probably be on here, I would, I would imagine, But that and
even that, that's kind of thelow key one. The next you know,
I don't know if it's like ait's not a high key like a
notable roster position battle. But whatin the world is the defensive line rotation

(37:22):
gonna look like? You can kindof like there's two guys where you think
would be the lead to it wouldbe LG. Collier and Carlos Watkins.
Watkins who's a fine NFL player,and Collier who has the you know,
the talent, former first round picknow kind of being pushed more in on

(37:43):
the interior than that he's played before. You'd figure those two. But how
is that defensive line rotation going tolook, because let's be honest, that
rotation is is light on proven talent. Yeah, and it's tough. I
mean you talked about it. It'sit's it feels like call your walkins.

(38:05):
And then we like Lawrence in Foetoo, but they're gonna have some questions
to answer. Kevin Strong seems likea lock to make the roster, but
he's kind of a been a twentytwenty five percent snap guy his whole career.
Like I think if he's playing morethan that, you're probably in a
in a pickle. Uh, youknow, just kind of probably not ideal.

(38:31):
Um, you know, from there, you look at it. They
brought in obviously Dante Stills. He'san intriguing guy, but he's still a
late day three. Never bank onthem. Although his skill set, his
skill set is it's a lot offun. Yeah, it's a lot of

(38:52):
fun. And so you know,so you just look at it and you
go, yikes, me, Idon't. I don't know how to put
it, like, it's not ideal. Um, after after Callier and Walkins,
I just don't know what to expect. I think the goal I think

(39:13):
the goal starting lineup, if Ihad to predict, would be Callier,
Walkins and Lawrence. But you wantto talk about a guy that's always hurt,
I mean, yeah, that's that'sthat's for sure. So so we'll
see how it works out. Ithink that's their goal. Um, but

(39:35):
you know those are those are alwaysif he The second inside backer spot for
me is intriguing because so intrigue becauseI mean, like especially from the time
Jonathan Gannon was hired and that theybrought in Kaisier wide, We're like,
Okay, they're set at linebacker wherethey're gonna be a four three defense.

(39:57):
It's gonna be call it's gonna beSements, it's gonna be white. Yeah,
And now it's basically for three fourish and the only thing we know
is white because Collins is the edge, Simmons is a safety. Like,
who's that other guy gonna be?Like? Right now, I would lean
Chris Barnes, but Josh Woods couldbe that guy. It could be an

(40:20):
instant they're going young. It couldbe Papo or even Kyle Soley, the
undrafted kid out of Arizona State.He's a smart enough kid to this is.
This is legitimately one of those situationswhere you just look at it and
you go, all right, let'ssee how this unfolds, because there's definitely
a position battle. I mean,if if the linebackers go, um,

(40:47):
if the linebackers just go Collins andWhite inside with Thomas and Sanders outside,
it's pretty chalky, wouldn't you say, like that, that's kind of what
we're expecting. Um, But thequestion becomes is that what Jonathan Gannon and

(41:12):
and um Nick Rawlis are thinking?Or is that? And I think what's
kind of the lineback Like the edgerotation. I think you're gonna see like
and Cam Thomas big, He's he'sgonna be counted on this year, And
I think Collins will be because theylike that. Like you look at the
edge guys that they had in Philly. They both kind of fit that size.

(41:36):
And then Ojulari slash Sanders, myj Sanders will be the rotational guys.
However they however they are you know, deployed. Yeah, and that's
what's going to be interesting because Ithink it's the same you know, when
you look at whether it's it's thatinside backer position or the or the two

(42:00):
outside of lot of mega positions,Like I think those are kind of open,
open battles. Um. You know, your point being completely completely accurate.
But again, Sanders, Thomas andfor that matter, Collins are all

(42:22):
guys that they're not they're not againand they're not rallist guys you know,
like and not to say that necessarilyBarns or Woods are, but they may
favor what they bring and what theysee and what they know more um than

(42:43):
what than what these other guys do. So it'll be interesting just to kind
of see how it all unfolds becausethe defense, I mean, the offense
is interesting, but it's like yousaid, it's a lot of like the
the alignment, and we we thinkwe think we know what we're gonna see

(43:05):
in a lot of instances, um, But the defense is I don't want
to say, a complete unknown,but it feels nearly like a complete because
quarterback cornerback is like, they didn'tdo hardly anything in quarterback. What's that
going to look like, is it, is it gonna be the Is it
gonna be the Vance Joseph group ofMarco Wilson and Antonio Hamilton's Is that really

(43:30):
gonna be? That? Is someoneelse gonna like Keetroll Clark? Is he
gonna step up? When can GarrettWilliams play? Those are all? Those
are all? And then the otherguys that are rostered, you know,
Chris Boyd is basically a special teamsguy, and then everyone else seems to
be just guys. Well, andI mean, even going back to it,

(43:54):
what is the defense gonna be runout of? I mean, we
talked about it. We thought theywe're gonna come in go for three.
Now it kind of feels like it'sgoing to be a three four, but
but it really probably might be afour two five, four two five truly,
So giving it, you know,for making it basically a four to

(44:17):
three because you can use Simmons ina versatile well, and honestly, either
Baker Buddha or Isaiah Simmons can beused closer to the line of scrimmage,
kind of like a coverage type linebackeror a linebacker type safety. So in

(44:39):
the essence, it's kind of likea four three, but you're playing big
nickel out of base, right,and that's what it feels like, is
what they're looking at. And that'sthe thing is, you know, they'll
use Simmons as that big nickel,and so then who comes off the field

(45:00):
right, Like, how does thatwork? Is it? Is it Lawrence?
And then it's call your Waltkins insideand and Sanders and Thomas outside and
and you know, so there's justso much actually fun intriguing pieces coming to
this. It genuinely is got aquestion for you because this is something that

(45:22):
surprised me, and I brought itup when I was on the Pitch and
X podcast the other day, butas we haven't talked about it since.
In my opponent preview with with GlennRby over at the Eagles Wire, he
talked about Jonathan Gannon and said heand Nick Rawlis and I did not know
this, so I don't know ifit's accurate or not, but I trust
him because he's all things equals thatboth Rallis and Gannon are and we know

(45:46):
Mike Zimmer, but are they arethey Vic Fangio disciples? Because Irby said
that, and if that's true,that would sort of suggest the some of
the alignment because that when he toldme that, I was like, wait,
what I mean it wouldn't surprise me. What what's his history? Uh

(46:14):
So, if you're doing what theindie the Indie defense at least did,
is there any sort of of Fangioinfluence? So so he is a zimmer
Disciple for sure. But and Ithink, I mean they may have crossed

(46:40):
paths somewhere, but I don't seeit. And like you said, they
know more than we do about that. But you know, it's just I
don't see it doesn't mean it's noton right. Well, so here's where
it might be. So I meanit's you know, it's that six degrees

(47:01):
of separation type of stuff. Letme double check make sure I've got my
wires crossed here, don't have mywires crossed. So well, that wasn't
the same time because Fangio was inHouston when Ken Flagioli was in Carolina.

(47:23):
So yeah, I don't see it. But again, it doesn't mean that's
not something, but that's just somethingrandom. But yeah, so I want
to ask you that it's gay.Let's let's let's move on from that,
going to the next section coming updown the rise ups Here at podcast The
Best Our Cardinals Talking the Web.Let's move on to talk about who were
the players that we put potential tosurprise? We know who the counters are

(47:45):
counting on, but who might bea surprise that's coming to next one?
Risips you read We're back on therights this here at podcast The Best Our
Cardinals Talk on the web. SethCox and I talking about the Cardinals training
camps or training camp preview. Wewant to kind of talk about now the
every year there are players who kindof stand and I'm not talking about those
back into the ed roster guys.We're not talking about the the undrafted rookie

(48:07):
quarterback that we think should be thebackup like the guys we've run across and
or the or the undrafted receiver whostands out that never does anything in their
career. That's fine, Well,those storylines will play out. They always
do legitimately. Who are who arethe guys who we think are under the

(48:28):
radar surprising guys? And if I'mkind of looking at this one, I
kind of want to look at youknow, I don't know if it's crazy,
like someone I think is going tostand out that we don't expect to

(48:50):
at that linebacker position, whether it'sJosh Woods, Chris Barnes, he's kind
of a known commodity. But whenwhen when they signed Barnes, like we
we like to the move, butI don't think anyone would have expected that
he would be in the running forthe starting job now. And I'm I'm
gonna tell you I already talked abouthim, but um, you know,

(49:12):
Owen Papo is the guy I'm Ithink can I think can play. I
know he's a fifth rounder and thingslike that, but I just I really
think that, you know, justlooking and maybe I'm just projecting too much,
and it's it's completely plausible, butjust looking at Gannon and his defenses

(49:35):
and then what he's coached in histime, right, So you go,
you know, obviously with the Eaglesthe last two years, and we talked
about I believe it was what MikeEdwards and then Kaiser White, right,
and then you go to the Colts, right and obviously Sirianni's or sorry,
eber Flus is the is, theis the DC and everything there, but

(49:59):
you he's Gannon was the linebackers coachat the time or cornerbacks coach, you
know. But and so you evengo then, um and look at those
linebackers. And obviously Shaq Leonard's afreaky guy. Uh, he was drafted
early, so um, you knowhe's not necessarily the guy. But you
look at these other guys, right, you look at like the the Anthony

(50:22):
Walker and the Bobby uh Okarecki's Uh, these guys that are fifth rounders and
and and late third rounders that arecoming out and ending up putting up just
massive numbers and becoming really good NFLplayers. It's kind of ingrained in their
DNA. And that's the other thingthat you look at. And the Gannon

(50:49):
kind of coaching disciple things, youknow, And I get it he was
the he was just a you know, an assistant coach and defensive quality control
coach and things like that. Butyou know, you go back even back
when he was in Tennessee, um, and you see kind of the the

(51:15):
profile there, right. You seethese guys that are not necessarily high high
draft picks that are coming out andplaying really well and leading strong defenses.

(51:37):
And that's you know, like yousaid, that's where guys kind of kind
of develop their um how they decideto to uh kind of dispose or or
you know, go after things.And he's got history and he comes from

(52:01):
lineages of where guys that are dayyou know, mid to late day two
and day three picks are high levelcontributors to their defenses. Um. I
think that's you know, why Ilike And like I said, maybe I'm
reading way too much into it,but that's why I like him. Um,

(52:21):
I'm really interested to see Key TrellClark another. I know it's a
late Day three guy, but Ithink he's a guy that loves to compete.
Yeah, he seems to be oneof those guys that will flash in
in camp and even little preseason againstsome of the lower end receivers that he's
gonna play against in the preseason,but just be a touch short right to

(52:45):
crack the rotation. Probably, Yeah, and that's what you wonder about um.
And then offensively, I'm really it'skind of a cheap one, but
I'm really really intrigued about Tray McBride'ssecond year. Right, But that for
me, that wouldn't be a surprise. That's a guy that I know,

(53:08):
Like, there's a handful of guysthat you know, they we the Cardinals
are counting on them take another step. Tray McBride's one. They need him
to be better Cam Thomas, They'recounting on him to be a starting Came
caliber player. For me, thosewouldn't be surprises their expectations for me.
I would just be surprised because we'dnever have good tight end. The suit

(53:29):
true the facts that like actually happened. Zach Ertz, in his eleven games
in twenty twenty one, tied thefranchises single season records for receptions in a
season for a tight end with fiftyseven in eleven games, and he was
pacing for between seventy and eighty lastyear. He'd a blown that record away,

(53:52):
blown that record away. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous that that number that's
there. But I think, yeah, I think that one of the running
backs that I don't know what,the guy I think has a chance to
surprise is actually Tyson Williams. Thatcould be that that sneaky guy to do

(54:15):
more than what's expected. Like peopleare looking at Kiante Ingram, I don't
I don't know what to expect fromhim, and even I'm already Mercado,
the undrafted rookie kid. But Ithink if I'm pointing, like, if
there's a guy who I think quietlycould be much better than anyone thinks,
I think Tyson Williams would be thatguy. Well, it's always hard to
project, you know, again lateround picks from other organizations or not other

(54:40):
organizations, but other regimes. Right, Like we liked Keyante Ingram. We
thought he was an intriguing guy,but like you know, and so then
you have a Tyson Williams who wasbounced around quite a bit, played a
game last year obviously for the Cardinals, but he's showing some flashes and in

(55:00):
his chances average like in recent years, those those those by running backs have
been sneaky, kind of productive,and I just think it's one of those.
I think it's just one of thosepositions because it's so obvious about James
Connor that there's somebody's got to grabthat wheel right as the main backup.

(55:24):
Yeah, it's got to be andsomebody has to step up because and when
they brought in Damian Williams, likeI felt forever that they're going to bring
in the veteran running back at somepoint. They brought in the veteran center
that we all expected to happen atsome point during this season, but they
still haven't done it with the runningback position, and and maybe you know,

(55:45):
maybe they just like to see theywant to give these young guys as
much because Corey Clement, he's hada little bit of production, like he's
he's rushed for you know, acouple of hundred yards a couple of seasons,
um, But the other guys arecompletely unproven in the league. You've
got one rookie and and it's gota game and then well, I guess

(56:06):
Tyson Williams played played a few moregames for Baltimore but didn't really do much.
And then you've got Kiante and hehas intrigued talent, but again he
was he was scouted, drafted,and coached by a completely different group.
And so that you never know whatyou know, the fact that that they've

(56:28):
taken that this coaching staff has takenisaism, has moved into safety, has
taken to David Collins and moved intothe edge, which we suggested maybe some
teams had um and we're thinking wouldbe his place because of his his size,
And they're doing that, So youwonder about what does Kiante Ingram fit.
Now, there are some people whosuggest that that he's a really good

(56:50):
fit for their offense, but youknow, we didn't see much from him
last year, and anybody else thatyou think could be a a surprise,
you know, a guy that standsout, a surprising standout in camp in
the preseason. It's gonna be interestingbecause the only other guy that is kind

(57:16):
of interesting is a guy we mentionedearlier in Dante Stills. Because I mean,
it's not that like Lek Whu orFoe two and Lawrence are bad or
strong or lead better, but wekind of know what they are even when

(57:37):
healthy. Right like Walkins, weknow what he is. He's going to
be a fantastic, you know,sixty percent snap guy for this this defense
callier. Obviously, like you said, the expectations are pretty high for him
or in terms of what they needfrom him. But because there's such an

(58:00):
opening for snaps along the defensive line, doesn't it feel like a guy like
Stills who has you know, maybenot quite the dynamic and um edge that
Darneld docket, but has a similarskill set to Darneld docket um. Isn't

(58:27):
it doesn't that just feel like it'sright to to kind of yeah, and
it would just having that happen,like if you get Papo and you get
Dantee Seals and Key Troup, itgives you some real excitement about this draft
class, something that you know youhaven't Yeah, we haven't had because it's

(58:49):
it's just been so hard for becausethe way they build a roster with with
veterans and stuff, it's been hardfor for rookies to crack the rotation and
then and they're just trying to build. You if there's one player I think
who has the potential to be farbetter than last year, I'm intrigued and
I wonder if Marco Wilson can takea big step forward. The fact that

(59:13):
they didn't go out and make anyreal moves at cornerback, I think that
suggests that they believe in the typeof ceiling that Marco Wilson has and with
putting him in a new defensive schemewith a guy like Jonathan Gannon. And
then you see what he was ableto do with those cornerbacks in Philly because
as a remember, Darius Slay lookedwashed up for a year and James Bradberry

(59:38):
was declining, and they're both liketwo of the best cornerbacks in the NFL.
Marco Wilson's athletic profile, he haslike top cornerback in the league type
potential, especially with the athleticism andthe skill set. I'm super intrigued to
see. I think he at leitecould be a very surprising player this year.

(01:00:05):
Yeah, and that's I mean,like you said, it's it's gonna
be interesting to see how this allworks out because there's so many there's so
many chances for for guys to makean impact this year, right that that
we haven't seen in the past orhaven't expected in the past. So it'll

(01:00:28):
be intriguing to see how how allof these guys, but you know,
especially the ones that were kind ofhighlighting and and it's kind of wish casting
from us at the same time,because this is you know, the first
step in a in a in thisrebuild, retool, whatever you want to
call it. So so we realizethat there's gonna be you know, it's
it's gonna be times where it's alittle bit disappointing or not as much fun,

(01:00:52):
but like that's part of the funnestto see if these guys are gonna
if they're gonna take that step oror guys like like Jess said, like
if you end up getting contributions fromone of Papa Stills or Clark, that's
huge. What can you imagine gettingtwo, two of them, three of

(01:01:14):
them? Well yeah, and andyou see a step up that way.
But and that doesn't mean that whatwe're saying guys that surprised in camp in
the preseason doesn't mean that they're gonnabe stars of the regular season. Like
we're cognizantly aware of how this defenseon paper looks kind of awful and there
will especially to begin this season.I will bet that this defense will have

(01:01:38):
some awful struggles, um, butthat as they gel within the scheme and
the unit that's this will become aa competitively okay defense by mid season.
By the second half of this season, they won't be they will they won't
be great, but they won't beterrible. They'll be competitively all right,

(01:02:00):
right, And that's the big thing. We will end this edition. That
wraps up this edition to rise uphere at podcast bestur of Cardinals talking about
our training camp preview. Think we'lltry and do a second show this week
and then kind of go on fromthere, kind of our regular show sequences
over the next several weeks. Weknow we still haven't done our divisional rankings

(01:02:22):
show, so maybe we can throwthat in this week. But now we're
back in podcast season, there's football. We'll be talking about training camp news,
preseason games, roster cuts and allthat. Those are coming up over
the next several weeks. That's sethCox. I'm Jess Route. Thanks for
listening. As always, Thanks forlistening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up See Red podcast. Listen toprevious episodes and subscribe to the show on

(01:02:45):
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(01:03:25):
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