Jess and Seth give you one more show about the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL draft. They discuss the possibility of a first-round trade. They go over their preferred first-round pick possibilities for the Cardinals and then try to build the ideal scenarios for the Cardinals throughout the draft, especially with how things play out in Rounds 1-3.
It's a great show and the next one will be their yearly mock draft of the first round.
It's a great show and the next one will be their yearly mock draft of the first round.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Z Z.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up s Red podcast, all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello, areas on the Cardinals fans, and welcome to the
latest edition of the Rise Up Secret podcast. If s
are Cardinals Talk on the Web, I'm your host Jess
Root from Cardswire dot com, the You Say Today NFL
wire site. The course covers yours in the Cardinals Episode
six hundred and fifty six recording with my co host
Seth Cox from Revenge of the Birds dot com es
me Nations Arizona Cardinals site. As we are one week
(00:55):
from the NFL Draft, we are one week and one
hour in terms of recording. Now. Granted, the episode probably
won't go live until Friday, so we're, you know, six
days away from the draft at that point when it
goes live. Set, but we've done We've done the heavy
hitting here. We've talked about the Cardinals' needs, we've looked
(01:16):
at all the positions and now it's just a few
more final projections. And we were just talking about this.
We have hit draft fatigue point. This happens to me
every year. It's about a week week and a half
before the draft, and I'm just like, oh can I
I can I write one more pre draft article. I
(01:37):
don't know, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna for another week, so.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Right exactly, and you have to just kind of power through. Right,
That's kind of where we're at right now. And you know,
it's all the as Ron Wolfley used to say, the
subterfuge of it all and adventure. And you know, the
reality is this time of year is a lot of fun.
Dress I mean, it's it's so much fun, but it's
(02:00):
also so monotonous at the end because there's not new
information coming out right.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
There isn't There isn't. It's weird, crazy thoughts. Now. I
will say this, if it were just a fan, like
we're doing this justice fans, I think it would be
far more fun still. But because we do so much
free draft content, so many mock drafts, so many project projections,
(02:29):
so many scenarios, so many rumors and meetings and and everything,
we're like, Okay, I think it's more draft fatigue for us.
I know, one traffic says that there is a little
bit of a lull in the final week leading up
to the draft and before all the content hits all
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, and that's kind of where we're at right now.
And it's not a bad thing. I mean, at the
end of the day, you can only discuss the same
information so much. And that's why, you know, for me,
I always try to space out, for instance, where I'm
or more accurately space out you know, the top thirty,
(03:09):
who are who's coming in and then and then discuss
those guys and kind of go from that direction of things.
But also, like you said, we can tell that it
doesn't drive the content struck quite as much as it
as as it should because at the end of the day,
you know, as much as people are into it, they're
(03:31):
not into it. Like they don't care about a Day
three guy that the Cardinals head in for a top
thirty visit, like that's that's just not exactly what they're
looking for. Like, you know, right now, the big thing is,
you know, who are they going to draft on day
one maybe day two? But outside of that, it's very
(03:52):
you know, it's it's very cut and dry, and it's
it's kind of like, all right, let's get through this
so we can get to complaining or or saying we
were right, we knew all along type stuff. That's where
that's where the next session comes in.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right sin what we're doing in this episode, So we've
done our positional previews. We got a couple of topics
we're going to cover. We're going to talk about the
possibility of trading in round one. We're not going to
talk about trades on day two or d three because
my goodness that that's way, way, way too hard to do.
And then what I want to do is rank the players.
(04:27):
The each of us are going to rank the players
that we want, the the likely available players that the
Cardinals could take in round one, and then we're going
to kind of go through what we would like the
Cardinals to do positionally player wise, what would be the
ideal scenarios for the seven rounds. So let's start with trades.
(04:51):
We know we know that Mati Austin Fort is a
trade guy. He's made what half a dozen Draft Day
trades over the last two years, including two first round
trades two years ago. That said, how likely is it
that you think that the Cardinals will make a trade
(05:15):
up or back in Round one.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
You know, I think there's a couple scenarios where they could.
You and I were discussing off there. There's one team
that's kind of a bugaboo right now, not necessarily for
the Cardinals, but for other teams, and that's the Cincinnati Bengals.
The Bengals are in an odd position obviously with Trey
Hendrickson still being disgruntled, and then you know, what are
(05:39):
they going to do off of that? And so one
of the scenarios that's coming about right now is would
a team jump the Bengals to get a player that has,
you know, potentially fallen. And fallen is a loose term
that we use who used to try to, you know,
(06:02):
gain some insight into things. But you know, from the
consensus board, you know, a player that has fallen. And
the hard part is something that you and I've talked
about is like, these are guys that probably the Cardinals
would draft, right So Jalen Walker, Michael Williams, the Shamar Stewart,
(06:24):
you know, maybe even a Mike Green, maybe a Jahad Campbell.
Like if one of those guys is available at sixteen,
would the Cardinals trade back even if they had them
high on their board, so to speak. So that's that's
the one team that we've heard could that other teams
(06:47):
could be actively trying to get ahead of to find,
you know, an answer for those for that edge rusher position,
you know, and then from there it just becomes how
does it all kind of work out? I think, you know,
there there is a question of Shaudur Sanders. If Shadur
Sanders is available at sixteen, does that prompt a team
(07:09):
like the Steelers, like the Browns who theoretically haven't drafted
somebody at this point?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Would one of those teams want to come up? And
then the other team that I've heard could be interested
in moving up. But you know, it's always interesting if
you're willing to help a team like this, And that's
that's the Kansas City Chiefs, right Like would Kansas City
Let's say, you know, Josh Simmons is available at sixteen,
(07:39):
and they go, well, we really need that tackle. Would
you be willing to move down to thirty one? Get
thirty one? Sixty three? And I think would have to
be probably sixty six as well for Josh Simmons. And
I don't know how fans would feel about that, right, Like,
so that's why the trades right now are quiet. The
(08:01):
other thing, and you mentioned it before, there's just really
no player at this juncture that that teams are like,
I got to get up and get this guy.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So the you know, again using the trade value chart,
and we can whether it's the rich Hill model or
the older school one, to go up to the Arizona
Cardinals from like the Chiefs, it would take the Chiefs,
you know, thirty one sixty three and then probably they're
(08:33):
their ninety five pick, because that would that would get
you to a right around three hundred and two points
or right over three hundred two points. The Cardinals pick
worth about three h five. So you know, that's how
you'd have to look at it, like, what is that
something that you would be willing to do? I don't
I mean, do you really want to trade down to
(08:53):
thirty one? That's the first question you have to answer, right.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, that's my But even if they did, they might
be willing to jump back up, as we saw them
do in twenty twenty three when they traded back down
to twelve and then back up to number six. So
if they were to fall that far back, I would
(09:19):
almost expect them to move back up, although that does
get a little dicey in that sense, But that is
an interesting notion that you bring up with someone wanting
to jump Cincinnati. When the truth is, when picks fifteen, sixteen,
and seventeen Falcons, Cardinals, Bengals, all three of those teams
(09:42):
are like, those are all edge teams right now, Like
if you're leaning towards a position, that they're going to
be looking at all three of those teams. So it
might even be a case if there's a team that
they they're going to have to move up to fourteen.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Right And that's the hard part. It is like not
only are those all those teams looking at kind of
similar players, but they all you know, have needs along
the same lines, and and you know they've they've had
similar failures as of late, and and so those are
(10:18):
all interesting dynamics to play with it throughout this thing.
You know, I think the only way a trade up
happens into this area. And again this is just me
spitballing here and I haven't even really done the math
would be if a team really likes Shadoor and he
falls down enough to the and and then you're like,
(10:39):
I have to get or we have to get in
front of Pittsburgh, right, and so that's that's the one.
But who what team would that be? Like what team
picking below Arizona would that be? And the only ones
that makes sense would be Cleveland and New York. So
then are you willing to move out around one potentially
(11:00):
and then come back up as you mentioned, or like
how would that go about? So you know those are
all those are all.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
One one possible scenario the Rams. But would you would
you trade with the Rams if they're looking to get
their next quarterback? That would be kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Right, it's not I don't think and I'm with you.
I just don't think that's something that you can think
about doing if you're if you're a Cardinals team, right, Like,
you can't you can't be like, oh yeah, we'll give you.
And again, I guess if you've graded out Shrador and
you're like not worried about it, and maybe right, But
(11:40):
for the most part, it seems like that would be
a fool's errand on your end or on.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
The cargo scene, you know, I could see Pittsburgh coming
up and that would be a reasonable.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Drop to the problem Josh or Jess. Sorry, here's a problem.
They only have a third round pick, so so you
I mean, yeah too, you know, sixteen to twenty one,
it's probably only worth that third round pick. But they're
like basically going all in. If they do that, they're
(12:12):
basically saying like, oh, yeah, should door is our guy,
that's the missing piece for us, you know. Now, now
let's say that trade. Now, let's say it's it's twenty
one and TJ. Watt would you you know, and I
know people would be like, well, that's not you know,
they would give up TJ. Watt. But but maybe they're
willing to give up Wat to somebody else for three,
(12:34):
so they have two threes, right, Like, those are all
the things we would have to explore about it. But
it's a tough one, man, because it's not as simple
as just straight up being like, oh, yeah, we'll make
this move, right Like, there's there's not a one player
(12:55):
situation where you're like, oh, yeah, this is the guy
that we're gonna move up for and go.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Get Yeah, that makes sense. And so ultimately I don't
think that the Cardinals will end up making a deal
in round one because they I think they have some
players that they'd like, and I think the players that
if you're willing to trade back, like Pittsburgh, that range
(13:23):
works because then you can still nail down one of
the players that you like because you're just it's number.
It's pick twenty one, so you're dropping down five spots.
Maybe maybe do the Maybe if Colston Loveland is falling
and the Chargers get a little antsy, you could see
them moving up. I would only be comfortable with the
(13:45):
Cardinals moving into the early to mid twenties, right and
from there, like you start going, well, now you're missing out.
Though we've talked about this. We've talked about this in
the sense that well, maybe it doesn't really matter because
(14:05):
the way they've got their prospects graded, like after pick fifteen,
from sixteen to forty five, it's all the same.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Right, well, and so like what if to your point
about Nancy, what if you know? And again these are
all what if scenarios, But what if Houston's on the
or what if Arizona's on the board and Houston says, hey,
twenty five fifty eight because Houston has two third round picks,
twenty five fifty eight. Uh, we'll get for sixteen. And
(14:39):
you sit there and you go, all right, I mean
they can go get whether it's it's Simmons or Banks
or if it's Team McMillan's falling down, right, like, we
can go get one of those guys. They can go
get one of those guys. And like you said, you're
sitting at twenty five and you're going, okay, at that
(14:59):
point point, I'm comfortable that Kenneth Grant, Derek Harmon, Walter
Nolan will all be on the board. And you know,
while they're they're different players, I'm comfortable with any of
those those options. Then yeah, you one thousand percent do that,
but you also have to understand that there's a chance
that if you do that, you're putting yourself in a
(15:20):
position where you know, are you know is your best option?
Great sable Tyler Booker at that point, right. So, so,
like you said, it's a it's an interesting conundrum because
it's not it's not cut and dry by any means.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Oh no, it's it's a very interesting scenario round like
day two, Day three picks, those are going to happen
because that then you are trying, like the teams are
really like one, it doesn't cost as much to move up,
especially after especially after round two, doesn't cost that much
to move up in round three. And the Cardinals traded
(16:02):
back last year in round two, they traded back again
in round three. They they've been collecting picks and this
year it will be interesting to see if they do that.
It says, but I just think it's a little unlikely.
But and trades are fun if if they go the
route of trade, and and they don't have an edge
(16:23):
that they're like, yes, I want like say it's Michael
Williams and he's off the board already, but someone else
really loves Schamar Stewart and they're like, that's not my
cup of tea, and they kind of have their eyes.
You could go drop back in the early twenties. Maybe
it's kind of makes if you drop back to like
to twenty five. Maybe you feel comfortable with the Donovan Jackson.
I think Jonavan Jackson, I'm seeing even a couple of
(16:44):
mocks that have him go in round one. Maybe maybe
you're comfortable with that pick then and going a different
route with your position with your edge guy, because because
you like the guys that are going to be available
at forty five and if you want interior guys, you
can get that at seventy eight or even with the
other pick that you that you pick up if it's
(17:07):
another second round or you can you can nail. You
can do it that way. And so yeah, coming next
to the rest of your podcast, The bestar Curtis Talk
of the Bed. Now, let's talk about first round picks.
Who are the picks? Let's rank the players that we
want the Cardinals to take. That's coming next and recips
you ready, We're back on the right of year podcast
The Best Are Cardinals talk on the web. The Cardinals
(17:28):
sit at the number sixteen pick. Who are the players?
Like it? We won't talk trade back scenarios, but if
the Cardinals in the first round, who are say you're
the top four players you would like to see them take?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You know, for me, it's it's really interesting because I've
been trying to think about this and like how I
would rank the players, and so I think for me,
I wouldn't rank them like necessarily one through four, but
I would just rout these four for me together. First
(18:05):
one be Derek Harmon. I think he's going to be
a very very good player, gonna have a very successful
long career with upside to be you know, kind of
pro Bowl, all pro level.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Mikel ris Oh sorry, Jeff Risden ranks Derek Harmon number
five on his entire draft board.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, and I think I think that makes sense. I mean,
if you watch him play, he really fits what Arizona
wants to do. And he's long, he's he's athletic, he's
he can work in the past game, working against the
run like, he gives you a really really solid talented player.
Mikel Williams would be next for me. I know, I
(18:49):
know some people are lower on him, but I just
think his work in the run game is so so good,
like so talented that I have a heart. He's one
of those guys I have a hard time seeing him fail,
if that makes sense. Like, you know, he may never
end up being the top player, but he also could
(19:11):
be a guy that you know is a is a
a ten year player where he's averaging you know, six
sacks a year and and just gives you relentless effort,
you know, on the interior and allows you to be
multiple in different ways. And the thing we got to
(19:32):
remember about Williams more than anything, obviously the ankle injury
bugged him all year. He's twenty years old. Man. Like,
it's a young dude that had a lot of success
in a short amount of time at Georgia. It's not
like we're talking about you know, and I don't mean
to throw things out, but like, it's not like we're
talking about Boston College or or Marshall, like like with
(19:54):
Mike Green or Donovan Azeruku, who I love. But I mean,
this was at Georgia again, you know, playing in the
in the playoffs, in the college football playoffs consistently from there.
The hardest one to judge, but the guy that I
think would have been the top offensive lineman's Josh Simmons.
(20:17):
I think what he did before the potella injury was
bordering on elite.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
He's worked heavily at both tackle positions, so he's got
flexibility coming out. Like there's not a question of if, oh,
will he struggle if you have to move him to
the right side. No, No, he's already been very successful
on the right side in the college level. And then
he you know, one of the big things that we
always talk about is these guys that do transfer as
(20:46):
long as they're going up and continuing to dominate. So
to go from San Diego State to to Ohio State
and be that good, you know, that means a lot
to me. And then my final one. You know, I
go back and forth on a lot of these guys.
I like a lot of these players. I think there's
a lot of guys Jiha Campbell, you know, Jalen Walker,
(21:09):
all these guys that I that I think very highly of.
But the guy that I would say would be four
and so he would just belong in that group before
with with high expectations is Walter Nolan. You know, you
and I were talking about the other night with regards
(21:32):
to like success and run and past stop. There there's
a lot of guys that you know are good at
one or the other, right, but Walter Nolan offers this
insane he's really good at both, which is very very
(21:53):
different to say. And then on top of that, he's
a guy that has had success. He's you know, a
big athlete. I you know, I do always worry about
the want to and things of that nature. That's always
a concern when a guy has that reputation or has
(22:15):
had that reputation. But you know, we have to go
off the information we have right and what we see
on the field. And there are other guys I like.
I mean, I mentioned it, Campbell Walker, Kenneth Grant's one
that I didn't mention that I really like. You mentioned
Donovan Jackson. I love Donovan Jackson. I don't know if
(22:36):
I take him at sixteen necessarily, but I do love
Donovan Jackson, so.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
So yeah, I mean, I think Donovan Jackson is the
perific scenario for round two. That's my ideal pick. But
if you get him later on, we're talking to trape.
But but at sixteen, so my my wishful thinking is Jalen Walker. Okay,
Jalen Walker is my wishful thinking pick, though I think
(23:02):
he's unlikely, and so my preferred picks if I'm kind
of raking them. I am falling into comfort with one.
Michael Williams, and all for the reason that you mentioned.
He He's characters unquestioned, He's got like no Kiper, he
(23:22):
looks the part, he's got great physical traits, he takes
coaching well, he does exactly what he's asking and and
the fact is only twenty years old, so there's a
lot of upside And would you talk about with his
work in the run game, Like if you get a
Jadavian Clowney type player, would that be terrible? That would
(23:45):
actually be fantastic with that sort of with with that
sort of way. So I'm kind of leaning towards well,
I'm leaning towards I think that that's the direction that
they want to go. Like, if they had a pick,
Jalen walckwould be a Dale. But if of the likely picks,
I'm saying Michael Williams one, I'm going to say Derek
(24:08):
Harmon too. And I think part of that is because
I believe that Williams will be able to do more.
We've talked about the depth and the defensive line room. Now,
if you draft a DT in round one, it might
be really easy to say, Okay, now now they're going
to trade Dante Stills or maybe there's an injury that
(24:30):
happens that opens things up. But I think doesn't take.
Like if they draft a DT in round one or
round two, I'm former looking at Dante Stills and look
at him and like you're going to be traded, aren't you?
Because he is a guy that's got some juice. He
would have some value as opposed to you know L J.
(24:50):
Collier who's got the one year deal, and they could
cut him, but it would eat you have to eat
some money because of the guarantees. So Michael Williams number one,
Eric Harmon number two. You know, if I have to
go like three four five, I do love the idea
of Josh Simmons, and then I'm taugh. I'm torn between
(25:14):
Pierce out of Tennessee and Nolan, and then I go
Calvin Banks because I think I think tackle is going
to be like you can put Brillon Simmons, and I
think the plan for year one for either Simmons or
Banks would be right guard just for a year, assuming
(25:34):
Jonah Williams is healthy, and kind of go from there
and just kick him out there in year two. And
know Calvin Banks would have to adjust because he's only
played left tackle in college. But nonetheless that's kind of
my ground one. Michael Williams, Derek Harmon, I'm a toss
up between Pearson, Nolan and then Simmons, Pierce, Nolan and Banks.
(26:01):
I'm leary of Shamar Stewart. I mean, I want another
team to take that bet. Not my team is how
have you Shamar student? I want another team to bet
on that because I'm afraid of the of the potential bust.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
And if it was on day two, I think both
of us would be like, yeah, yeah, do it, Like
that's fine, but you know at sixteen where you still
need talent along your your defensive line, Yeah, you're not
wanting to take that bet quite yet.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, And Jehad Campbell, I think is a real possibility,
but it's not my preference. It's not my preference. Especially
it's a position they could and it would be nice,
But like what you were who was at the end
of the group chat, is kind of like, you know,
maybe the best way to address the linebacker position is
(27:00):
get someone who is just raw and athletic and plays
for a few years and then you just get him
on the cheap, but now he's ready to be a starter,
and then you just play him for two or three
years and then you do it Rinson repeat, kind of
like what they did with Raisier White, what they did
with Josh Woods, what they did with Mac Wilson, and
(27:21):
now they're bringing in a Keem Davis, Gaither and Michael Walker,
guys that you know they've started some but you know
now they're going to have their opportunity in year five,
six seven to kind of do that.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, and that's you know, I'm not ever big on
I'm getting inside linebackers early. I think I think people
oversell it. And and you know the guys that have
flourished lately, Fred Warner, Zach Bond, you know those types,
those were day two picks. That's why I've said all along,
(27:57):
like we'll talk about it shortly, but I'll I'll say again,
why who my guy is?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah? Well, and think about that, is that you can
even the Cardinals like their best off ball guys that
they've had. If we think of the last decade and
a half fifteen years, Cardinals stands being Daryl Washington, right,
and they were not first round picks. They were Day
two picks. And so yeah, let's talk about the kind
(28:27):
of the setup then. So coming up next to the
resids here at Podcast Best or Cardinals talk with our
last segment before we before we wait for the mock
draft next week, let's play out ideal player slash position scenarios.
That's kind of next en resups. He read. We're back
on the resids here Podcast Best Our Cardinals talk on
the web looking at potential ideal scenarios, And I'll be honest,
(28:54):
I'm gonna look, I kind of kind of want to
play out days one and two rather than day three,
because Day three I'm more of D three like that
kind of whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
But I mean, we could talk about what could potentially
be on but like guessing, guessing day three is literally
it's easier just to throw darts at a board and
be more accurate.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Right, I'd be more like talking Day three would be
more like what positions would I like to see them get?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
So what would be kind of your if we're looking
rounds one through three, what would be your ideal scenarios
for players in those three rounds or positions at least?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Well, let me ask you this first. So do you
think in this draft where interior d line and we
can throw edge in there and then interior offensive line
or like those Day two offensive linemen are so plentiful,
(30:01):
do you think it's key that they come away with
one in the first two days at each position?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You know, for the interior I think they need to. Honestly,
I would I think prefer if there was one on
days one and two and then another one early on
(30:29):
Day three ideally, but well, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Okay, I'm not sure. Yeah, I mean it's tough and
it really is. So let's start. Let's start and say,
you know, in round one, we'll go with uh. I mean,
we won't say Jalen Walker falls because I feel like
that's just too far. But probably let's say they go
(30:58):
Michael Williams at sixteen. All right, so that's that's, you know,
kind of edge defensive line type guy. So Michael Williams
at sixteen, where where do you go at forty seven?
Then like, what is your next move?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
So ideal scenario if edge is day one. So if
it is Michael Williams in round one, then for me,
perfect scenario is don Atan Jackson because he kind of
answered that would be my perfect right.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Because he kind of answers two questions, right, Like he
has vast experience at guard, but also he was elite
when he had to fill in at tackle to win
a national championship, So like there's not a question of
if he can do it, because I mean we we
all literally watched him help Ohio State win a national
(31:56):
championship playing at the tackle position. So I mean you're
getting a guy and Donovan Jackson who you kind of
just plug in, right and you say, okay, he if
if he needs to play you know, guard, he that's
where he's best at. But he can play tackle, uh
if if that's where we need him. Yeah, I mean
(32:19):
I think Donovan Jackson is like I said, like he's
a he's a sneaky trade back, first round guy for
this for this team. So ideally at forty seven, Yeah,
I would tend to agree with you there like that.
That seems ideal. Now if they if they go Mikel
Williams again, you now look at it and you go, okay,
(32:40):
so he's more of an edge type, right, I mean
you look at you look at his size, you look
at what he is right now again so so young,
so you know what he is or how he plays
can all change. But with Mikel Williams off the board, first,
(33:03):
you know you kind of go to, what would you
take the next kind of interior defensive lineman or do
you think Williams you know, could continue to grow, get
big enough blah blah blah if you took a defensive lineman. Obviously,
I think we're in agreement. Donovan Jackson's kind of the
(33:23):
guy right there. If so, But if you took a
defensive lineman, I want to give you four names and
who would you pick? So you have in this like
little area. Just again we're using the consensus board. Doesn't
mean nothing, but just gives us an exercise. If you
have a choice between Tyleek Williams, the Ohio State interior
(33:44):
defensive lineman, Darius Alexander, the the Toledo defensive lineman, TJ.
Sanders the South Carolina, and then Alfred Collins from Texas,
is there a guy that you'd be like, yes, forty seven,
I'm taking him. I'm not even thinking twice about it.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I would lean Williams slightly over Alexander, but I would
be one hundred percent on board with doing one of
those two there. But I also have then I have
in round three, I have a player in in mind
for round three that I want them to go if
that's the case.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
So so the reason I say that, and again it's
it's really difficult because you know, once you get out
of the first round, it's all kind of a toss up, right,
But the idea of I think I think we would agree.
Mikel Williams. Donovan or Mikel Williams to Donovan Jackson would
be ideal.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I mean it.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
You know, you're getting a guy in Mikel Williams who
doesn't have to start right away, but has the upside
to be one of the premiere you know, players from
this from this class, and then and then Donovan Jackson.
You know, I don't think we can say enough positive
things about him. He's a guy that immediately improves this
(35:05):
this offensive line and really, you know, at either position too.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Much sense, he makes too much sense. He's really good
at two positions. He fills an immediate need so he
can step in and start and be good. And the
connection with him and Justin and Fry, I'm convinced. I'm
convinced that the Cardinals will take Simmons, Donovan Jackson or
(35:30):
Seth McLaughlin in this draft. And if they don't, like,
why did you get Justin Fry?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Right? Okay, So let's say, you know, ideal scenario, you
get Williams, then you get Donovan Jackson. So who do
you go with at seventy eight? Which is you know
that that third round pick are you are you dipping
back into the defensive line, you know, and getting a
true interior guy or are you are you looking at
(36:00):
one of these you know, as we discussed these linebackers
and we really haven't even brought up, you know, corner
or wide receiver at this point.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Either. I think I'm leaning towards a wide receiver personally.
Now do I want that to be like I've seen
mocks like ty Felton, No, I want tick. If I
have to pick, I felt and I want that round
four That's what I would ideally like. But in round three,
(36:31):
if I'm looking at receiver U, that's the tricky part.
Who's the guy that I want in that range? Someone
that so perfect scenario would be one of the Iowa
State guys would be perfect. If it's one of the
(36:52):
Iowa state guys, whether it's Noel or Higgins, would be perfect.
But doesn't that few like and and if if that's
the case, maybe maybe maybe it's Isaac Tesla, right, Maybe
that's the route that would be better to do is
take get Isaac Tesla in round three?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, And so I think Tesla would be available in
round four personally, So yeah, yeah, So in this scenario,
I would come back onto the defensive line you know,
I think in this, in this exercise, obviously it's tough,
but based on just what they've gone through everything, I
(37:35):
would lean towards Omar Norman lot.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Okay, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
The Tennessee defensive tackle. I think he's you know, I
think he's the closest thing to like obviously insane comp
but like closest thing to like a Aaron Donald in
terms of size and things of that nature. And he's
(38:05):
very athletic, he's very explosive. I think you could get,
you know, something really good out of him the way
I would unfold this. And I know a lot of
people are probably not going to agree with me, and
that's okay, I don't really care. Is is my ideal
And I said this the other day. My ideal would
(38:27):
be mikel Williams.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
First, I would take Carson Sweeshinger, the linebacker out of
UCLA in the second round. You know, I know they
brought in a Keen Davis Gathers. I know they have
Matt Wilson. So you know, if Swesssinger beats one of
them out, it's fantastic, right like, if not, like, he
has a year to develop continue to build on his
(38:52):
size and things of that nature. The hard part would
be the third round because the guy that I've really
liked is now like all the way up into the
sixties on the on the consensus board, and that's Tate Rattledge,
So I don't know if he's going to be available
in the third round.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, would be that that That's what I was going
to go. If if they go edge d line, Ratledge
is for me the pick at seventy eight, that would
be ideal. So you go Williams, and I forgot Kenneth Grant,
So if Kenneth I would rank the DTS, I'd pick
it at forty seven, Kenneth Grant, Tyler Williams, Darius Alexander.
(39:32):
And then if you go that, I'm hoping for Tate
Rattledge for the guard spot what like you were saying.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, the one name that I've heard really positive things
on and and you know, I'm gonna have to dive
more into him over the next week or so while
we still have time on this. But is uh Marcus Mbo,
I don't I don't even know the he's out.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Of ut a part of Perdue right.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Right, Like I've heard really really positive things about him,
and he that's where he's being, you know, kind of
mocked at this that sixty five to eighty range. Uh
So that would you know, fall into that. So so
to your point, if you end up with you know,
edge defensive line in rounds one and two or or
(40:24):
defensive line and and you know maybe maybe you you know,
take Derek Harmon at seventeen and then and then you
come back at at forty seven and you grab a
guy like a Nick S. Gordon, who I've talked about
on this this podcast, or or like a J. T.
Tuamalo Wow, you know one of those guys, or the
(40:46):
guy that everybody's got moving up the boards, and we
talked about him, right Fameela Dejo out of UCLA sweesterners
running mate. Like if you come back and then it's
you know again rat Ledge would be ideal, that would
be But if he's not there, and now you're looking
the MBO is who I've heard really positive things about.
(41:09):
So I'm gonna have to dive into him a little
bit more because it makes sense, you know, kind of
addressing that now if they go wide receivers, you talked
about the one that I've kind of landed on personally,
and again I wouldn't take one until eighty or seventy eight.
(41:29):
You know, I'm not gonna get upset if they they
take a different one. I don't, you know, I don't care,
Not that I don't care, but like what am I
gonna do get mad because they took a player I
didn't are, you know, sooner than I would? But be
out of TCU makes a lot of sense, right, Oh yes,
A good route runner.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Betch at seventy eight would be fantastic.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Right, you know, very very good route runner, good enough speed,
and then he he has the things that they been
looking for, right, which is the size elik I am.
I am an oars and another one another big guy
six two two ten, a good blocker. You know, those
are the guys that you kind of are looking at.
(42:14):
But the guy I've landed on, I think I talked
about him the last time, so I won't go too
far into it. But Kyle Williams, man, I really really
like Kyle Williams. And he's kind of flying up boards
right now into that you know, late day two stage.
So by the time the draft gets around here, he
might be the guy that we talk enough about you know,
(42:36):
and that he goes even before seventy eight. Uh, you know,
he's a guy with his with his size, speed, his
work out of different spots, and I just you know,
I see a lot of fit and a guy that
(42:56):
that's got a lot of a lot of passes, you know.
And you know, I'm not gonna say he could be
like Lad McConkie. Mconkie was a little faster. I think
I think Williams was a four to four guy. McConkie
was a four to three nine, But you know, similar
style and route running and things of that nature. That's
(43:18):
who I've kind of ladded on. So those would be
the three wide receivers I wouldn't hate at seventy eight.
But yeah, I mean I think ideally, like we talked about,
for me, it's it's something along the front set or
the front four however you want to call it, or
(43:38):
on the offensive line in day one and then coming
back and addressing one of those spots with that second
round pick. Although, like I said, I would take Spestionnger
in a heartbeat because I I really do think he's
going to be kind of the next great inside linebacker.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I like another scenario. If they go, say Harmon or
Nolan at sixteen, then I would say rim Olau. I
really like the combination of size and production that Timolau
(44:20):
offers from Ohio State. Then around three would be rattledge
slash and INMBO that would work as well. I would
be one hundred percent on board because then you then
you hit then you still hit one o sec because
they got the guard, linebacker, and receiver spots that you
know they have holes, they kind of have holes. You
(44:41):
still hit one of those three positions in the first
three rounds if I had to pick. Yeah, So yeah,
that's how I'd like that. So if you go MIKEL.
Williams round one, Donovan Jackson round two, around three, I
could I could go with the deep tackle there that
you go betch at receiver, or you could go, you
know CJ. West Ra Albert Collins if he's fallen a
(45:02):
bit on the defensive line, and then round four I
would be cool with the receiver. And I don't honestly,
I don't care what they do in rounds five or seven.
I don't. I don't as long as there was upside.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, and it's it's interesting, what is I mean, I
know this wasn't a topic, but like, is that your
kind of nightmare? And again, Jess and I have gotten
to the point where we're not overly concerned about what
happens on draft night because it's so far out of
our control. You know that you can't you know, you
can latch onto people and want a prospect and everything,
(45:41):
but it's you know, unlikely to happen most of the time.
But like, is your nightmare scenario similar to mine? Like
they go Matthew Golden and then come back and like
grab a Trey Amos and I love Amos, so you
know it wouldn't be a bad pick. But isn't that
kind of like the night that they take and you're like, Okay,
(46:05):
we're gonna run this.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I'd love Matthew Golden. But then you're like, but the
edge and the defense f line, Yeah, that would be
that would be wild. So I have definitely my favorites.
Like I'm leaning towards like I was. I told you
on the show before, and I've said I I had
a sneaky feeling that they're gonna go offensive line. I'm
pulling away from that. I'm pulling away from that based
(46:30):
on all these visits that they did that they're gonna
go brunt seven, probably Edge. I'm I'm leaning towards if
i'm if I'm gonna pick like and I think that's
gonna be my pick in the mob next week for
the Cardinals will be MIKEL Williams and with the offensive
lineman as a trade back like some and Slash Banks
(46:51):
will be an option if they trade back. I think
that's going to be the case. But they'll look at
EDGE or DT. And then so the third I would
be one hundred percent thrilled with about three or four
scenarios where like I said, if they get Williams, then
they get Jackson and then they get a solid DT
in round three or or a receiver, And if they
(47:13):
did DT, then EDGE then receiver slash guard in round
three and any of those, I'd be happy about. So
and then, like I said, I don't care about rounds
four through seven, there's all sorts of guys. I think
they they should get a receiver, but whatever, if they
get an athletic safety for down the line it's a
(47:34):
tight end or running back, I don't care. I don't
care rounds pay three of the draft. I'm not gonna
get my unless there's a particular player. When we get
to that day there's some particular players on the board,
I'm not gonna go oh, got to get that. I
think there'll be players I think they target. I would
one hundred percent believe that Seth McLaughlin could be their
(47:56):
fifth or seventh round pick, just to just to have
a guy in place because he was really good, really
really good, and you got yelled at for two more years.
Why not have a guy waiting with That will end
this edition of the Rise of Secret podcast. The Best
are Cardinals talk on the Webit's episode six fifty six.
(48:16):
We have one show next week and that will be
our mock draft. I think it's the tenth year in
a row we've done it, our first round mock draft,
and after that we will We won't do another show
until we can grade the draft the following week. Butt
and tell me that said Cox, I'm just rute. This
is the Rise of Here podcast. Thanks for listening. As always,
thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
(48:37):
Up See Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes, and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, stitch your radio audio boom,
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We'll be back soon for the best hour of Cardinals
(48:57):
talk on the web, Rise Up red c b Red
Sea Red, and of course Rise Up s red z
(49:28):
z
Z Z.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up s Red podcast, all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello, areas on the Cardinals fans, and welcome to the
latest edition of the Rise Up Secret podcast. If s
are Cardinals Talk on the Web, I'm your host Jess
Root from Cardswire dot com, the You Say Today NFL
wire site. The course covers yours in the Cardinals Episode
six hundred and fifty six recording with my co host
Seth Cox from Revenge of the Birds dot com es
me Nations Arizona Cardinals site. As we are one week
(00:55):
from the NFL Draft, we are one week and one
hour in terms of recording. Now. Granted, the episode probably
won't go live until Friday, so we're, you know, six
days away from the draft at that point when it
goes live. Set, but we've done We've done the heavy
hitting here. We've talked about the Cardinals' needs, we've looked
(01:16):
at all the positions and now it's just a few
more final projections. And we were just talking about this.
We have hit draft fatigue point. This happens to me
every year. It's about a week week and a half
before the draft, and I'm just like, oh can I
I can I write one more pre draft article. I
(01:37):
don't know, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna for another week, so.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Right exactly, and you have to just kind of power through. Right,
That's kind of where we're at right now. And you know,
it's all the as Ron Wolfley used to say, the
subterfuge of it all and adventure. And you know, the
reality is this time of year is a lot of fun.
Dress I mean, it's it's so much fun, but it's
(02:00):
also so monotonous at the end because there's not new
information coming out right.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
There isn't There isn't. It's weird, crazy thoughts. Now. I
will say this, if it were just a fan, like
we're doing this justice fans, I think it would be
far more fun still. But because we do so much
free draft content, so many mock drafts, so many project projections,
(02:29):
so many scenarios, so many rumors and meetings and and everything,
we're like, Okay, I think it's more draft fatigue for us.
I know, one traffic says that there is a little
bit of a lull in the final week leading up
to the draft and before all the content hits all
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, and that's kind of where we're at right now.
And it's not a bad thing. I mean, at the
end of the day, you can only discuss the same
information so much. And that's why, you know, for me,
I always try to space out, for instance, where I'm
or more accurately space out you know, the top thirty,
(03:09):
who are who's coming in and then and then discuss
those guys and kind of go from that direction of things.
But also, like you said, we can tell that it
doesn't drive the content struck quite as much as it
as as it should because at the end of the day,
you know, as much as people are into it, they're
(03:31):
not into it. Like they don't care about a Day
three guy that the Cardinals head in for a top
thirty visit, like that's that's just not exactly what they're
looking for. Like, you know, right now, the big thing is,
you know, who are they going to draft on day
one maybe day two? But outside of that, it's very
(03:52):
you know, it's it's very cut and dry, and it's
it's kind of like, all right, let's get through this
so we can get to complaining or or saying we
were right, we knew all along type stuff. That's where
that's where the next session comes in.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right sin what we're doing in this episode, So we've
done our positional previews. We got a couple of topics
we're going to cover. We're going to talk about the
possibility of trading in round one. We're not going to
talk about trades on day two or d three because
my goodness that that's way, way, way too hard to do.
And then what I want to do is rank the players.
(04:27):
The each of us are going to rank the players
that we want, the the likely available players that the
Cardinals could take in round one, and then we're going
to kind of go through what we would like the
Cardinals to do positionally player wise, what would be the
ideal scenarios for the seven rounds. So let's start with trades.
(04:51):
We know we know that Mati Austin Fort is a
trade guy. He's made what half a dozen Draft Day
trades over the last two years, including two first round
trades two years ago. That said, how likely is it
that you think that the Cardinals will make a trade
(05:15):
up or back in Round one.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
You know, I think there's a couple scenarios where they could.
You and I were discussing off there. There's one team
that's kind of a bugaboo right now, not necessarily for
the Cardinals, but for other teams, and that's the Cincinnati Bengals.
The Bengals are in an odd position obviously with Trey
Hendrickson still being disgruntled, and then you know, what are
(05:39):
they going to do off of that? And so one
of the scenarios that's coming about right now is would
a team jump the Bengals to get a player that has,
you know, potentially fallen. And fallen is a loose term
that we use who used to try to, you know,
(06:02):
gain some insight into things. But you know, from the
consensus board, you know, a player that has fallen. And
the hard part is something that you and I've talked
about is like, these are guys that probably the Cardinals
would draft, right So Jalen Walker, Michael Williams, the Shamar Stewart,
(06:24):
you know, maybe even a Mike Green, maybe a Jahad Campbell.
Like if one of those guys is available at sixteen,
would the Cardinals trade back even if they had them
high on their board, so to speak. So that's that's
the one team that we've heard could that other teams
(06:47):
could be actively trying to get ahead of to find,
you know, an answer for those for that edge rusher position,
you know, and then from there it just becomes how
does it all kind of work out? I think, you know,
there there is a question of Shaudur Sanders. If Shadur
Sanders is available at sixteen, does that prompt a team
(07:09):
like the Steelers, like the Browns who theoretically haven't drafted
somebody at this point?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Would one of those teams want to come up? And
then the other team that I've heard could be interested
in moving up. But you know, it's always interesting if
you're willing to help a team like this, And that's
that's the Kansas City Chiefs, right Like would Kansas City
Let's say, you know, Josh Simmons is available at sixteen,
(07:39):
and they go, well, we really need that tackle. Would
you be willing to move down to thirty one? Get
thirty one? Sixty three? And I think would have to
be probably sixty six as well for Josh Simmons. And
I don't know how fans would feel about that, right, Like,
so that's why the trades right now are quiet. The
(08:01):
other thing, and you mentioned it before, there's just really
no player at this juncture that that teams are like,
I got to get up and get this guy.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So the you know, again using the trade value chart,
and we can whether it's the rich Hill model or
the older school one, to go up to the Arizona
Cardinals from like the Chiefs, it would take the Chiefs,
you know, thirty one sixty three and then probably they're
(08:33):
their ninety five pick, because that would that would get
you to a right around three hundred and two points
or right over three hundred two points. The Cardinals pick
worth about three h five. So you know, that's how
you'd have to look at it, like, what is that
something that you would be willing to do? I don't
I mean, do you really want to trade down to
(08:53):
thirty one? That's the first question you have to answer, right.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, that's my But even if they did, they might
be willing to jump back up, as we saw them
do in twenty twenty three when they traded back down
to twelve and then back up to number six. So
if they were to fall that far back, I would
(09:19):
almost expect them to move back up, although that does
get a little dicey in that sense, But that is
an interesting notion that you bring up with someone wanting
to jump Cincinnati. When the truth is, when picks fifteen, sixteen,
and seventeen Falcons, Cardinals, Bengals, all three of those teams
(09:42):
are like, those are all edge teams right now, Like
if you're leaning towards a position, that they're going to
be looking at all three of those teams. So it
might even be a case if there's a team that
they they're going to have to move up to fourteen.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Right And that's the hard part. It is like not
only are those all those teams looking at kind of
similar players, but they all you know, have needs along
the same lines, and and you know they've they've had
similar failures as of late, and and so those are
(10:18):
all interesting dynamics to play with it throughout this thing.
You know, I think the only way a trade up
happens into this area. And again this is just me
spitballing here and I haven't even really done the math
would be if a team really likes Shadoor and he
falls down enough to the and and then you're like,
(10:39):
I have to get or we have to get in
front of Pittsburgh, right, and so that's that's the one.
But who what team would that be? Like what team
picking below Arizona would that be? And the only ones
that makes sense would be Cleveland and New York. So
then are you willing to move out around one potentially
(11:00):
and then come back up as you mentioned, or like
how would that go about? So you know those are
all those are all.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
One one possible scenario the Rams. But would you would
you trade with the Rams if they're looking to get
their next quarterback? That would be kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Right, it's not I don't think and I'm with you.
I just don't think that's something that you can think
about doing if you're if you're a Cardinals team, right, Like,
you can't you can't be like, oh yeah, we'll give you.
And again, I guess if you've graded out Shrador and
you're like not worried about it, and maybe right, But
(11:40):
for the most part, it seems like that would be
a fool's errand on your end or on.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
The cargo scene, you know, I could see Pittsburgh coming
up and that would be a reasonable.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Drop to the problem Josh or Jess. Sorry, here's a problem.
They only have a third round pick, so so you
I mean, yeah too, you know, sixteen to twenty one,
it's probably only worth that third round pick. But they're
like basically going all in. If they do that, they're
(12:12):
basically saying like, oh, yeah, should door is our guy,
that's the missing piece for us, you know. Now, now
let's say that trade. Now, let's say it's it's twenty
one and TJ. Watt would you you know, and I
know people would be like, well, that's not you know,
they would give up TJ. Watt. But but maybe they're
willing to give up Wat to somebody else for three,
(12:34):
so they have two threes, right, Like, those are all
the things we would have to explore about it. But
it's a tough one, man, because it's not as simple
as just straight up being like, oh, yeah, we'll make
this move, right Like, there's there's not a one player
(12:55):
situation where you're like, oh, yeah, this is the guy
that we're gonna move up for and go.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Get Yeah, that makes sense. And so ultimately I don't
think that the Cardinals will end up making a deal
in round one because they I think they have some
players that they'd like, and I think the players that
if you're willing to trade back, like Pittsburgh, that range
(13:23):
works because then you can still nail down one of
the players that you like because you're just it's number.
It's pick twenty one, so you're dropping down five spots.
Maybe maybe do the Maybe if Colston Loveland is falling
and the Chargers get a little antsy, you could see
them moving up. I would only be comfortable with the
(13:45):
Cardinals moving into the early to mid twenties, right and
from there, like you start going, well, now you're missing out.
Though we've talked about this. We've talked about this in
the sense that well, maybe it doesn't really matter because
(14:05):
the way they've got their prospects graded, like after pick fifteen,
from sixteen to forty five, it's all the same.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Right, well, and so like what if to your point
about Nancy, what if you know? And again these are
all what if scenarios, But what if Houston's on the
or what if Arizona's on the board and Houston says, hey,
twenty five fifty eight because Houston has two third round picks,
twenty five fifty eight. Uh, we'll get for sixteen. And
(14:39):
you sit there and you go, all right, I mean
they can go get whether it's it's Simmons or Banks
or if it's Team McMillan's falling down, right, like, we
can go get one of those guys. They can go
get one of those guys. And like you said, you're
sitting at twenty five and you're going, okay, at that
(14:59):
point point, I'm comfortable that Kenneth Grant, Derek Harmon, Walter
Nolan will all be on the board. And you know,
while they're they're different players, I'm comfortable with any of
those those options. Then yeah, you one thousand percent do that,
but you also have to understand that there's a chance
that if you do that, you're putting yourself in a
(15:20):
position where you know, are you know is your best option?
Great sable Tyler Booker at that point, right. So, so,
like you said, it's a it's an interesting conundrum because
it's not it's not cut and dry by any means.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Oh no, it's it's a very interesting scenario round like
day two, Day three picks, those are going to happen
because that then you are trying, like the teams are
really like one, it doesn't cost as much to move up,
especially after especially after round two, doesn't cost that much
to move up in round three. And the Cardinals traded
(16:02):
back last year in round two, they traded back again
in round three. They they've been collecting picks and this
year it will be interesting to see if they do that.
It says, but I just think it's a little unlikely.
But and trades are fun if if they go the
route of trade, and and they don't have an edge
(16:23):
that they're like, yes, I want like say it's Michael
Williams and he's off the board already, but someone else
really loves Schamar Stewart and they're like, that's not my
cup of tea, and they kind of have their eyes.
You could go drop back in the early twenties. Maybe
it's kind of makes if you drop back to like
to twenty five. Maybe you feel comfortable with the Donovan Jackson.
I think Jonavan Jackson, I'm seeing even a couple of
(16:44):
mocks that have him go in round one. Maybe maybe
you're comfortable with that pick then and going a different
route with your position with your edge guy, because because
you like the guys that are going to be available
at forty five and if you want interior guys, you
can get that at seventy eight or even with the
other pick that you that you pick up if it's
(17:07):
another second round or you can you can nail. You
can do it that way. And so yeah, coming next
to the rest of your podcast, The bestar Curtis Talk
of the Bed. Now, let's talk about first round picks.
Who are the picks? Let's rank the players that we
want the Cardinals to take. That's coming next and recips
you ready, We're back on the right of year podcast
The Best Are Cardinals talk on the web. The Cardinals
(17:28):
sit at the number sixteen pick. Who are the players?
Like it? We won't talk trade back scenarios, but if
the Cardinals in the first round, who are say you're
the top four players you would like to see them take?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You know, for me, it's it's really interesting because I've
been trying to think about this and like how I
would rank the players, and so I think for me,
I wouldn't rank them like necessarily one through four, but
I would just rout these four for me together. First
(18:05):
one be Derek Harmon. I think he's going to be
a very very good player, gonna have a very successful
long career with upside to be you know, kind of
pro Bowl, all pro level.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Mikel ris Oh sorry, Jeff Risden ranks Derek Harmon number
five on his entire draft board.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, and I think I think that makes sense. I mean,
if you watch him play, he really fits what Arizona
wants to do. And he's long, he's he's athletic, he's
he can work in the past game, working against the
run like, he gives you a really really solid talented player.
Mikel Williams would be next for me. I know, I
(18:49):
know some people are lower on him, but I just
think his work in the run game is so so good,
like so talented that I have a heart. He's one
of those guys I have a hard time seeing him fail,
if that makes sense. Like, you know, he may never
end up being the top player, but he also could
(19:11):
be a guy that you know is a is a
a ten year player where he's averaging you know, six
sacks a year and and just gives you relentless effort,
you know, on the interior and allows you to be
multiple in different ways. And the thing we got to
(19:32):
remember about Williams more than anything, obviously the ankle injury
bugged him all year. He's twenty years old. Man. Like,
it's a young dude that had a lot of success
in a short amount of time at Georgia. It's not
like we're talking about you know, and I don't mean
to throw things out, but like, it's not like we're
talking about Boston College or or Marshall, like like with
(19:54):
Mike Green or Donovan Azeruku, who I love. But I mean,
this was at Georgia again, you know, playing in the
in the playoffs, in the college football playoffs consistently from there.
The hardest one to judge, but the guy that I
think would have been the top offensive lineman's Josh Simmons.
(20:17):
I think what he did before the potella injury was
bordering on elite.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
He's worked heavily at both tackle positions, so he's got
flexibility coming out. Like there's not a question of if, oh,
will he struggle if you have to move him to
the right side. No, No, he's already been very successful
on the right side in the college level. And then
he you know, one of the big things that we
always talk about is these guys that do transfer as
(20:46):
long as they're going up and continuing to dominate. So
to go from San Diego State to to Ohio State
and be that good, you know, that means a lot
to me. And then my final one. You know, I
go back and forth on a lot of these guys.
I like a lot of these players. I think there's
a lot of guys Jiha Campbell, you know, Jalen Walker,
(21:09):
all these guys that I that I think very highly of.
But the guy that I would say would be four
and so he would just belong in that group before
with with high expectations is Walter Nolan. You know, you
and I were talking about the other night with regards
(21:32):
to like success and run and past stop. There there's
a lot of guys that you know are good at
one or the other, right, but Walter Nolan offers this
insane he's really good at both, which is very very
(21:53):
different to say. And then on top of that, he's
a guy that has had success. He's you know, a
big athlete. I you know, I do always worry about
the want to and things of that nature. That's always
a concern when a guy has that reputation or has
(22:15):
had that reputation. But you know, we have to go
off the information we have right and what we see
on the field. And there are other guys I like.
I mean, I mentioned it, Campbell Walker, Kenneth Grant's one
that I didn't mention that I really like. You mentioned
Donovan Jackson. I love Donovan Jackson. I don't know if
(22:36):
I take him at sixteen necessarily, but I do love
Donovan Jackson, so.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
So yeah, I mean, I think Donovan Jackson is the
perific scenario for round two. That's my ideal pick. But
if you get him later on, we're talking to trape.
But but at sixteen, so my my wishful thinking is Jalen Walker. Okay,
Jalen Walker is my wishful thinking pick, though I think
(23:02):
he's unlikely, and so my preferred picks if I'm kind
of raking them. I am falling into comfort with one.
Michael Williams, and all for the reason that you mentioned.
He He's characters unquestioned, He's got like no Kiper, he
(23:22):
looks the part, he's got great physical traits, he takes
coaching well, he does exactly what he's asking and and
the fact is only twenty years old, so there's a
lot of upside And would you talk about with his
work in the run game, Like if you get a
Jadavian Clowney type player, would that be terrible? That would
(23:45):
actually be fantastic with that sort of with with that
sort of way. So I'm kind of leaning towards well,
I'm leaning towards I think that that's the direction that
they want to go. Like, if they had a pick,
Jalen walckwould be a Dale. But if of the likely picks,
I'm saying Michael Williams one, I'm going to say Derek
(24:08):
Harmon too. And I think part of that is because
I believe that Williams will be able to do more.
We've talked about the depth and the defensive line room. Now,
if you draft a DT in round one, it might
be really easy to say, Okay, now now they're going
to trade Dante Stills or maybe there's an injury that
(24:30):
happens that opens things up. But I think doesn't take.
Like if they draft a DT in round one or
round two, I'm former looking at Dante Stills and look
at him and like you're going to be traded, aren't you?
Because he is a guy that's got some juice. He
would have some value as opposed to you know L J.
(24:50):
Collier who's got the one year deal, and they could
cut him, but it would eat you have to eat
some money because of the guarantees. So Michael Williams number one,
Eric Harmon number two. You know, if I have to
go like three four five, I do love the idea
of Josh Simmons, and then I'm taugh. I'm torn between
(25:14):
Pierce out of Tennessee and Nolan, and then I go
Calvin Banks because I think I think tackle is going
to be like you can put Brillon Simmons, and I
think the plan for year one for either Simmons or
Banks would be right guard just for a year, assuming
(25:34):
Jonah Williams is healthy, and kind of go from there
and just kick him out there in year two. And
know Calvin Banks would have to adjust because he's only
played left tackle in college. But nonetheless that's kind of
my ground one. Michael Williams, Derek Harmon, I'm a toss
up between Pearson, Nolan and then Simmons, Pierce, Nolan and Banks.
(26:01):
I'm leary of Shamar Stewart. I mean, I want another
team to take that bet. Not my team is how
have you Shamar student? I want another team to bet
on that because I'm afraid of the of the potential bust.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
And if it was on day two, I think both
of us would be like, yeah, yeah, do it, Like
that's fine, but you know at sixteen where you still
need talent along your your defensive line, Yeah, you're not
wanting to take that bet quite yet.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, And Jehad Campbell, I think is a real possibility,
but it's not my preference. It's not my preference. Especially
it's a position they could and it would be nice,
But like what you were who was at the end
of the group chat, is kind of like, you know,
maybe the best way to address the linebacker position is
(27:00):
get someone who is just raw and athletic and plays
for a few years and then you just get him
on the cheap, but now he's ready to be a starter,
and then you just play him for two or three
years and then you do it Rinson repeat, kind of
like what they did with Raisier White, what they did
with Josh Woods, what they did with Mac Wilson, and
(27:21):
now they're bringing in a Keem Davis, Gaither and Michael Walker,
guys that you know they've started some but you know
now they're going to have their opportunity in year five,
six seven to kind of do that.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, and that's you know, I'm not ever big on
I'm getting inside linebackers early. I think I think people
oversell it. And and you know the guys that have
flourished lately, Fred Warner, Zach Bond, you know those types,
those were day two picks. That's why I've said all along,
(27:57):
like we'll talk about it shortly, but I'll I'll say again,
why who my guy is?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah? Well, and think about that, is that you can
even the Cardinals like their best off ball guys that
they've had. If we think of the last decade and
a half fifteen years, Cardinals stands being Daryl Washington, right,
and they were not first round picks. They were Day
two picks. And so yeah, let's talk about the kind
(28:27):
of the setup then. So coming up next to the
resids here at Podcast Best or Cardinals talk with our
last segment before we before we wait for the mock
draft next week, let's play out ideal player slash position scenarios.
That's kind of next en resups. He read. We're back
on the resids here Podcast Best Our Cardinals talk on
the web looking at potential ideal scenarios, And I'll be honest,
(28:54):
I'm gonna look, I kind of kind of want to
play out days one and two rather than day three,
because Day three I'm more of D three like that
kind of whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
But I mean, we could talk about what could potentially
be on but like guessing, guessing day three is literally
it's easier just to throw darts at a board and
be more accurate.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Right, I'd be more like talking Day three would be
more like what positions would I like to see them get?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
So what would be kind of your if we're looking
rounds one through three, what would be your ideal scenarios
for players in those three rounds or positions at least?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Well, let me ask you this first. So do you
think in this draft where interior d line and we
can throw edge in there and then interior offensive line
or like those Day two offensive linemen are so plentiful,
(30:01):
do you think it's key that they come away with
one in the first two days at each position?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You know, for the interior I think they need to. Honestly,
I would I think prefer if there was one on
days one and two and then another one early on
(30:29):
Day three ideally, but well, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Okay, I'm not sure. Yeah, I mean it's tough and
it really is. So let's start. Let's start and say,
you know, in round one, we'll go with uh. I mean,
we won't say Jalen Walker falls because I feel like
that's just too far. But probably let's say they go
(30:58):
Michael Williams at sixteen. All right, so that's that's, you know,
kind of edge defensive line type guy. So Michael Williams
at sixteen, where where do you go at forty seven?
Then like, what is your next move?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
So ideal scenario if edge is day one. So if
it is Michael Williams in round one, then for me,
perfect scenario is don Atan Jackson because he kind of
answered that would be my perfect right.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Because he kind of answers two questions, right, Like he
has vast experience at guard, but also he was elite
when he had to fill in at tackle to win
a national championship, So like there's not a question of
if he can do it, because I mean we we
all literally watched him help Ohio State win a national
(31:56):
championship playing at the tackle position. So I mean you're
getting a guy and Donovan Jackson who you kind of
just plug in, right and you say, okay, he if
if he needs to play you know, guard, he that's
where he's best at. But he can play tackle, uh
if if that's where we need him. Yeah, I mean
(32:19):
I think Donovan Jackson is like I said, like he's
a he's a sneaky trade back, first round guy for
this for this team. So ideally at forty seven, Yeah,
I would tend to agree with you there like that.
That seems ideal. Now if they if they go Mikel
Williams again, you now look at it and you go, okay,
(32:40):
so he's more of an edge type, right, I mean
you look at you look at his size, you look
at what he is right now again so so young,
so you know what he is or how he plays
can all change. But with Mikel Williams off the board, first,
(33:03):
you know you kind of go to, what would you
take the next kind of interior defensive lineman or do
you think Williams you know, could continue to grow, get
big enough blah blah blah if you took a defensive lineman. Obviously,
I think we're in agreement. Donovan Jackson's kind of the
(33:23):
guy right there. If so, But if you took a
defensive lineman, I want to give you four names and
who would you pick? So you have in this like
little area. Just again we're using the consensus board. Doesn't
mean nothing, but just gives us an exercise. If you
have a choice between Tyleek Williams, the Ohio State interior
(33:44):
defensive lineman, Darius Alexander, the the Toledo defensive lineman, TJ.
Sanders the South Carolina, and then Alfred Collins from Texas,
is there a guy that you'd be like, yes, forty seven,
I'm taking him. I'm not even thinking twice about it.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I would lean Williams slightly over Alexander, but I would
be one hundred percent on board with doing one of
those two there. But I also have then I have
in round three, I have a player in in mind
for round three that I want them to go if
that's the case.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
So so the reason I say that, and again it's
it's really difficult because you know, once you get out
of the first round, it's all kind of a toss up, right,
But the idea of I think I think we would agree.
Mikel Williams. Donovan or Mikel Williams to Donovan Jackson would
be ideal.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I mean it.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
You know, you're getting a guy in Mikel Williams who
doesn't have to start right away, but has the upside
to be one of the premiere you know, players from
this from this class, and then and then Donovan Jackson.
You know, I don't think we can say enough positive
things about him. He's a guy that immediately improves this
(35:05):
this offensive line and really, you know, at either position too.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Much sense, he makes too much sense. He's really good
at two positions. He fills an immediate need so he
can step in and start and be good. And the
connection with him and Justin and Fry, I'm convinced. I'm
convinced that the Cardinals will take Simmons, Donovan Jackson or
(35:30):
Seth McLaughlin in this draft. And if they don't, like,
why did you get Justin Fry?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Right? Okay, So let's say, you know, ideal scenario, you
get Williams, then you get Donovan Jackson. So who do
you go with at seventy eight? Which is you know
that that third round pick are you are you dipping
back into the defensive line, you know, and getting a
true interior guy or are you are you looking at
(36:00):
one of these you know, as we discussed these linebackers
and we really haven't even brought up, you know, corner
or wide receiver at this point.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Either. I think I'm leaning towards a wide receiver personally.
Now do I want that to be like I've seen
mocks like ty Felton, No, I want tick. If I
have to pick, I felt and I want that round
four That's what I would ideally like. But in round three,
(36:31):
if I'm looking at receiver U, that's the tricky part.
Who's the guy that I want in that range? Someone
that so perfect scenario would be one of the Iowa
State guys would be perfect. If it's one of the
(36:52):
Iowa state guys, whether it's Noel or Higgins, would be perfect.
But doesn't that few like and and if if that's
the case, maybe maybe maybe it's Isaac Tesla, right, Maybe
that's the route that would be better to do is
take get Isaac Tesla in round three?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, And so I think Tesla would be available in
round four personally, So yeah, yeah, So in this scenario,
I would come back onto the defensive line you know,
I think in this, in this exercise, obviously it's tough,
but based on just what they've gone through everything, I
(37:35):
would lean towards Omar Norman lot.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Okay, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
The Tennessee defensive tackle. I think he's you know, I
think he's the closest thing to like obviously insane comp
but like closest thing to like a Aaron Donald in
terms of size and things of that nature. And he's
(38:05):
very athletic, he's very explosive. I think you could get,
you know, something really good out of him the way
I would unfold this. And I know a lot of
people are probably not going to agree with me, and
that's okay, I don't really care. Is is my ideal
And I said this the other day. My ideal would
(38:27):
be mikel Williams.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
First, I would take Carson Sweeshinger, the linebacker out of
UCLA in the second round. You know, I know they
brought in a Keen Davis Gathers. I know they have
Matt Wilson. So you know, if Swesssinger beats one of
them out, it's fantastic, right like, if not, like, he
has a year to develop continue to build on his
(38:52):
size and things of that nature. The hard part would
be the third round because the guy that I've really
liked is now like all the way up into the
sixties on the on the consensus board, and that's Tate Rattledge,
So I don't know if he's going to be available
in the third round.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, would be that that That's what I was going
to go. If if they go edge d line, Ratledge
is for me the pick at seventy eight, that would
be ideal. So you go Williams, and I forgot Kenneth Grant,
So if Kenneth I would rank the DTS, I'd pick
it at forty seven, Kenneth Grant, Tyler Williams, Darius Alexander.
(39:32):
And then if you go that, I'm hoping for Tate
Rattledge for the guard spot what like you were saying.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, the one name that I've heard really positive things
on and and you know, I'm gonna have to dive
more into him over the next week or so while
we still have time on this. But is uh Marcus Mbo,
I don't I don't even know the he's out.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Of ut a part of Perdue right.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Right, Like I've heard really really positive things about him,
and he that's where he's being, you know, kind of
mocked at this that sixty five to eighty range. Uh
So that would you know, fall into that. So so
to your point, if you end up with you know,
edge defensive line in rounds one and two or or
(40:24):
defensive line and and you know maybe maybe you you know,
take Derek Harmon at seventeen and then and then you
come back at at forty seven and you grab a
guy like a Nick S. Gordon, who I've talked about
on this this podcast, or or like a J. T.
Tuamalo Wow, you know one of those guys, or the
(40:46):
guy that everybody's got moving up the boards, and we
talked about him, right Fameela Dejo out of UCLA sweesterners
running mate. Like if you come back and then it's
you know again rat Ledge would be ideal, that would
be But if he's not there, and now you're looking
the MBO is who I've heard really positive things about.
(41:09):
So I'm gonna have to dive into him a little
bit more because it makes sense, you know, kind of
addressing that now if they go wide receivers, you talked
about the one that I've kind of landed on personally,
and again I wouldn't take one until eighty or seventy eight.
(41:29):
You know, I'm not gonna get upset if they they
take a different one. I don't, you know, I don't care,
Not that I don't care, but like what am I
gonna do get mad because they took a player I
didn't are, you know, sooner than I would? But be
out of TCU makes a lot of sense, right, Oh yes,
A good route runner.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Betch at seventy eight would be fantastic.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Right, you know, very very good route runner, good enough speed,
and then he he has the things that they been
looking for, right, which is the size elik I am.
I am an oars and another one another big guy
six two two ten, a good blocker. You know, those
are the guys that you kind of are looking at.
(42:14):
But the guy I've landed on, I think I talked
about him the last time, so I won't go too
far into it. But Kyle Williams, man, I really really
like Kyle Williams. And he's kind of flying up boards
right now into that you know, late day two stage.
So by the time the draft gets around here, he
might be the guy that we talk enough about you know,
(42:36):
and that he goes even before seventy eight. Uh, you know,
he's a guy with his with his size, speed, his
work out of different spots, and I just you know,
I see a lot of fit and a guy that
(42:56):
that's got a lot of a lot of passes, you know.
And you know, I'm not gonna say he could be
like Lad McConkie. Mconkie was a little faster. I think
I think Williams was a four to four guy. McConkie
was a four to three nine, But you know, similar
style and route running and things of that nature. That's
(43:18):
who I've kind of ladded on. So those would be
the three wide receivers I wouldn't hate at seventy eight.
But yeah, I mean I think ideally, like we talked about,
for me, it's it's something along the front set or
the front four however you want to call it, or
(43:38):
on the offensive line in day one and then coming
back and addressing one of those spots with that second
round pick. Although, like I said, I would take Spestionnger
in a heartbeat because I I really do think he's
going to be kind of the next great inside linebacker.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I like another scenario. If they go, say Harmon or
Nolan at sixteen, then I would say rim Olau. I
really like the combination of size and production that Timolau
(44:20):
offers from Ohio State. Then around three would be rattledge
slash and INMBO that would work as well. I would
be one hundred percent on board because then you then
you hit then you still hit one o sec because
they got the guard, linebacker, and receiver spots that you
know they have holes, they kind of have holes. You
(44:41):
still hit one of those three positions in the first
three rounds if I had to pick. Yeah, So yeah,
that's how I'd like that. So if you go MIKEL.
Williams round one, Donovan Jackson round two, around three, I
could I could go with the deep tackle there that
you go betch at receiver, or you could go, you
know CJ. West Ra Albert Collins if he's fallen a
(45:02):
bit on the defensive line, and then round four I
would be cool with the receiver. And I don't honestly,
I don't care what they do in rounds five or seven.
I don't. I don't as long as there was upside.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, and it's it's interesting, what is I mean, I
know this wasn't a topic, but like, is that your
kind of nightmare? And again, Jess and I have gotten
to the point where we're not overly concerned about what
happens on draft night because it's so far out of
our control. You know that you can't you know, you
can latch onto people and want a prospect and everything,
(45:41):
but it's you know, unlikely to happen most of the time.
But like, is your nightmare scenario similar to mine? Like
they go Matthew Golden and then come back and like
grab a Trey Amos and I love Amos, so you
know it wouldn't be a bad pick. But isn't that
kind of like the night that they take and you're like, Okay,
(46:05):
we're gonna run this.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I'd love Matthew Golden. But then you're like, but the
edge and the defense f line, Yeah, that would be
that would be wild. So I have definitely my favorites.
Like I'm leaning towards like I was. I told you
on the show before, and I've said I I had
a sneaky feeling that they're gonna go offensive line. I'm
pulling away from that. I'm pulling away from that based
(46:30):
on all these visits that they did that they're gonna
go brunt seven, probably Edge. I'm I'm leaning towards if
i'm if I'm gonna pick like and I think that's
gonna be my pick in the mob next week for
the Cardinals will be MIKEL Williams and with the offensive
lineman as a trade back like some and Slash Banks
(46:51):
will be an option if they trade back. I think
that's going to be the case. But they'll look at
EDGE or DT. And then so the third I would
be one hundred percent thrilled with about three or four
scenarios where like I said, if they get Williams, then
they get Jackson and then they get a solid DT
in round three or or a receiver, And if they
(47:13):
did DT, then EDGE then receiver slash guard in round
three and any of those, I'd be happy about. So
and then, like I said, I don't care about rounds
four through seven, there's all sorts of guys. I think
they they should get a receiver, but whatever, if they
get an athletic safety for down the line it's a
(47:34):
tight end or running back, I don't care. I don't
care rounds pay three of the draft. I'm not gonna
get my unless there's a particular player. When we get
to that day there's some particular players on the board,
I'm not gonna go oh, got to get that. I
think there'll be players I think they target. I would
one hundred percent believe that Seth McLaughlin could be their
(47:56):
fifth or seventh round pick, just to just to have
a guy in place because he was really good, really
really good, and you got yelled at for two more years.
Why not have a guy waiting with That will end
this edition of the Rise of Secret podcast. The Best
are Cardinals talk on the Webit's episode six fifty six.
(48:16):
We have one show next week and that will be
our mock draft. I think it's the tenth year in
a row we've done it, our first round mock draft,
and after that we will We won't do another show
until we can grade the draft the following week. Butt
and tell me that said Cox, I'm just rute. This
is the Rise of Here podcast. Thanks for listening. As always,
thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
(48:37):
Up See Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes, and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, stitch your radio audio boom,
or many other podcast platforms, so shows are delivered directly
to your mobile device. Please give the show a five
star ready and always support the sponsors who support the show.
We'll be back soon for the best hour of Cardinals
(48:57):
talk on the web, Rise Up red c b Red
Sea Red, and of course Rise Up s red z
(49:28):
z
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