Arizona Cardinals midseason report card

With the Cardinals on a bye, Jess and Seth give their position-by-position grades for the team. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Z ESU.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up SA RED podcast all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
And Seth Cox.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Heller'sa the Cardinals fans, and welcome to the latest edition
of the Rise Ups Here at podcast divest of Cardinals
Talk on the Web. I'm your host Jess Root Fromcardswire
dot com, USA Today's NFL wire site, and with me
as my co host, Seth Cox from Revenge of the
Birds dot Com, it's be Nations areas on the Cardinals side.
This we have episode seven hundred and thirteen, and well,
we're not previewing a game. It's our bye week for

(00:53):
the Cardinals and therefore we're going to do some mid
season grades and with a two and five team Seth,
I'm guessing you don't have great grades for the different
parts of the team, because I mean I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
No, I mean, it's definitely been mostly disappointing from that aspect,
and so yeah, I mean you just kind of look
at it and you be you know, realistic with how
the season is gone.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Yes, so two and five and I can't quite figure out.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
And I think it was Locked On Cardinals co host
Alex Clancy or the guy that does the Locked On podcast,
Alex Clancy.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
He asked the question.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
So he's posted on Twitter and he said, I can't
figure out if the Cardinals are the worst good team
or the best bad team. And I guess it comes
down to this. They are the same mid squad that
they were a year ago. And I guess that's kind
of it, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, And I you know, there's a couple uh people
that are outside of Cardinal's fandom. They had similar thoughts
and and you know, you look at it from that perspective,
and you know, I can understand why people would be like, oh,
it's not that bad, right, you know, and you just
look at all that and you go, no, no, it
is that bad. And that's and that's what the issue becomes, right,

(02:23):
is is that you want to see more from this
organization in general, and and therefore, when when you're seeing
similar or or in this case, you know, potentially worse
results from previous seasons, you just you can't be happy

(02:44):
about that, Like it's it's a failure. Of a season
thus far, and and anybody that tells you differently, you know,
they're they're just won't flat out wrong.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Right, Yeah, it's it's just been it's been a struggle,
to say the least.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
So let's what what we're gonna do in this show.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
We're gonna give grades to every position and the coaches,
and so let's start with with quarterback position. We've got
Kyler Murray who's two and three, the six touchdown passes,
three interceptions, been sacked sixteen times on pace for more
sacks than he's had in quite some time. Jacoby Brissette,
who started the last two games, four touchdown passes, one interception,

(03:28):
eight sacked eight eight times and two games, will also
hit twenty four times. You know, you know, they're both
completing a pretty decent you know, Kyler's at over sixty
eight percent, Verseetts at sixty four point two percent. The
touchdown percentage is a little higher for Brissett, uh, the
intercept per interception percent centers fizz a little bit lower

(03:50):
Perset match, but honestly, the one point nine percent and
one point two percent for Perset really kind of matches
their career marks. So they i you know, I think
we're caught in the moment of how how the passing
game has looked the last two weeks and are forgetting

(04:13):
what Kyler has done in different stretches. But honestly, I
can't give the quarterback play higher than a CE.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Right, Yeah, I think that's accurate. It's it's been a
c and and the reality of the situation is is
it hasn't been good enough to win games at times,
and then it hasn't been bad enough that it's lost
any games. And that's for both guys, right, I know,
I know people want to look at it and you know,

(04:42):
spin things and go, well, you know, it's it's this
guy's fault that they they lost, or it's this guy's
you know, or the defense that this It's like no, no,
Like they're not good enough to win games, but they're
not bad enough to lose games. You know.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
It's the problem.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Like Kyler, we wanted to see more, so his level
of play is disappointing, while Brissette he's slightly exceeding expectations,
which is why we're like everyone's like I've seen more
from Jacoby present, Like you guys are forgetting that We've
also got more than a year and a half of

(05:20):
Kyler in this offense, and for whatever reason, this year
just hasn't been the same.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
It's just it's felt harder, is basically it.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Correct, And that's you know, that's what the issue has become,
is that it just doesn't feel like it's a successful
or success based offense. And for that reason, you know,
it's become this this problem every game and there's no
easy answers. And that's you know, something that we've talked

(05:53):
about at nauseum about about just the pets and offense
in general. You know, where what they're doing and how
they're doing it that makes it really difficult to be
successful continuously. You know, So we'll see how that changes
as the as the season progresses. But yeah, through through

(06:16):
seven games, I don't think you can give it anything
higher than that, right.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
No, definitely not going to the running back position, which
has been a revolving door. James Connor starting the year
getting hurt and not honestly, he wasn't particularly productive into
three games that he played. Then Trey Benson, who's been
then he's uninjured reserve. He could be coming back here
in the next couple of weeks. But what he has

(06:43):
offered has been big play flashes. He's got one hundred
and sixty yards rushing, He's got a fifty two yarder
and a twenty nine yarder and so basically eighty of
his yards half of his yards have come in two plays.
And then it's it's not been particularly It's been explosive,
but it hasn't been efficient. And then Michael Carter in

(07:07):
two point eight yards retempt Bam Knight has shown a
little something. But I you know what this running back
room has supposed to It has was expected to be
a strength of this team, and it has not been
anything to anything at all. And right now I think
you can barely give give it a D. But yeah,

(07:30):
I'm gonna give it like somewhere C minus, I'm gonna
D plus just because this has just been so far
below expectations as a group.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
And part of it is simply the injuries.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Oh, injuries definitely play into it, right, But but before
the injuries you mentioned it, there was no effectiveness or
explosiveness in the game. I mean, there was a couple
of long runs for Trey Benson, but other than that,
it's just been it bad to terrible, you know, which

(08:06):
makes it really difficult to give it anything higher than
than what it is right now. And so, uh, you know,
this has been a trying season and and and that's
what the question has become. And you know, there's a
lot of people that are like, oh, Clayton Adams, Clayton Adams. Look,

(08:27):
I think extremely, extremely highly of Clayton Adams. But and
I and I don't mean this to come off as
harsh as it's going to, but dude, you cannot tell
me that an offensive line coach matters that much like
you just like you're never gonna convince me that, Like, look,

(08:50):
I can get I can get behind it if we're
talking about like new players development, you know, Oh, Isaiah Adams,
that's on that's on the NU game. Okay, I get
behind that. But you're telling me that losing Clayton Adams,
they don't even remember how to block, right.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
That's the thing that's weird.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
And and here's the thing, because we everyone's also pointing
to the success offensively of the Dallas Cowboys. Let's not
give that six. Clayton Adams has an important part on
that on that staff. But let's be honest about this.
Clayton Adams is the equivalent of Harold Goodwin. That offense

(09:36):
is Brian Schottenheimer. Harold Goodwin was an offensive line coach
with an offensive coordinator title because Bruce Arians was the
play caller. It was Bruce arians scheme, and it's no
different in Dallas. Now, I'm not saying that Clayton Adams
isn't a good chock like he was. Everyone here spoke

(09:59):
very highly of him, and it had he been able
to stick around for another year, depending on what the
decision is with because Drew Petskin's contract will be up
after this season. We've seen the Jonathan Gannon isn't afraid
to change guys on his staff. It'd be interesting to

(10:20):
see how he does that with like his coordinators, those guys,
but they're I mean, perhaps he would have been an
offensive quarter next year, but that would also be a
rookie type thing. Clayton Adams is an OC who is
an offensive line coach.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
And Dallas is doing well.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Their offense is very explosive, but they've had They've had
success with their offensive line for years. They have a
greatly talented offense, and Brian Schottenheimer, my goodness, you know
he's doing better than people thought he would do that offense,
But he's a lifer when it comes to offense, like
he's he's a legacy guy when it comes to offense

(11:02):
because Artie Schottenheimer's can it's It's honestly not really any
different than the Shanahan's Mike sant Uh the Kyle Shanahan
situation is like they've been around offense off successful office
in skiings all their life. So there's a lot of
questions I have about the like the the offensive line play,

(11:23):
which we haven't gotten to yet, the running game. But
I you know, an offensive line coach and bringing in
an offensive line coach who is very well respected by
half of the offensive line room already because he coached
Paris Johnson, he coached Justin Fryer, I'm sorry, Josh Fryer,

(11:46):
and he coached John Gaines at UCLA. So I have
a hard time with that. That said, running back room,
the I mean injuries like I hope for the sake
of Kyler Murray and the offense that they mean that
they don't that Drew Petsing does not go back to

(12:10):
what the play calling was with Kyler, at least the strategy. Yeah,
you need to run the ball. You have to run
the ball, but you can't make that. That can't be
their identity anymore. And if they're gonna, if they're gonna
let Jacoby Brissett rip it, let's let Kyler rip it
to and see if he.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Can do that. And and maybe maybe that will we
will find.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Out that Kyler has fallen off the cliff as a passer.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
I don't believe that's the case.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
But maybe, like you put the onus on Kyler with
the passing game, like they've done with the Brissett, and
you let them like we're at the point like let
him succeed or let him fail. And if that's the case,
all right, maybe maybe maybe his best games are behind him.
That would that would really suck. But wide receivers who

(13:04):
this is also highly disappointing because Harrison hasn't you know,
Harrison hasn't produced on a great level.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
Like let me let me crunch the numbers.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
So three ninety six, Oh it's good, three ninety seven,
I'm seventeen. He is almost on pace for a thousand
yard season. So it's not horrifically bad, but it isn't
as impactful. And Michael Wilson and Zay Jones and Greg

(13:42):
Dortch are basically who they've been as day. Jones already
has more catches than he did all last season, and
that's good. Michael Wilson's like not Michael Wilson's not even
on pace, but the passing game with the past with
the wide receivers A at best, C minus at best,

(14:03):
And that's a generous grade, I.

Speaker 5 (14:04):
Think, yeah, and I'd give it a C. I don't
think it's you know, I don't think it's great, but
it's it's not terrible. It's very average, and they've played
in that in that way, and so that makes it
really difficult to give anything higher.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
I mean, but you're correct, it's disappointing, but I try
not to let the disappointment of of it dictate how
I grade it. So like if I'm just grading it
on how it's actually going from a efficiency, you know,

(14:47):
all of that nonsense. Standpoint, Yeah, it's a it's a C.
If I if we're going off what we had hoped
it would become, it's probably a a D or an F, right, right, right,
So I think your great is fair, by the way,
like I don't think it's unfair I'm just going to

(15:07):
try to take the more this is the analytical route
of things of like, oh, yeah, it's not good, but
also look at it as like, hey, it's it's pretty bad,
but at the same time, like it's bad in the

(15:28):
sense of what our expectations were, not in the expect
or not in the sense of the overall you know,
outcome of what we've seen.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
If we look at the tight end, try McBride is
pacing yard like catch wise, he's right on pace where
he was last year. He's on pace for one hundred
and fourteen catches. He's a little bit lower on the yardage.
We haven't seen quite as much down the field, but
he's on pace for over a thousand yards. And I

(16:01):
always say this thousand yards season for tight ends are tough,
especially when you have a wide receiver like Marvin Harrison
who's supposed to emerge.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
That's hard to maintain.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
So but but he scored four touchdowns, which you know
we've gotten off off that fantasy problem that he's that
he's not a he's not a problem on fantasy. Tip
Ryman done for the season, Drafts vocalickt done for the season.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
Elijah Higgins is just fine.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
He gives you a little like if you're talking about
a number two tight end, he gives you a little
more upside as a as a pass catcher. But he's
not quite the block He's an able blocker, and he's
a willing blocker, but he's definitely not tip Ryman. It's
a bummer that they've lost, is that they've had so
much attrition as they have. But I still this this
group is worth a bee to me right now.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
If you're going based on just Trey, I think you
would give it an A. But I think yeah, like
the room obviously, again you got to take some take
some of the like, oh these were the expectations, blah
blah blah out of it. We also have to be like, okay,
well a lot of them can't you know, I can't

(17:15):
even play, And is that their fault? No, Like, we
don't want to blame the injuries on the players, especially
you know, some of the freakness of those injuries.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
But we can blame Jacoby pt for killing tip Ryman,
right yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
But at the same time, you know, we talked about
this all the time, like you're you're graded by your
availability and their availability right now is zero, and that's
made the room you know, overall, probably a C plus,
maybe a B minus because you have, you know, a

(17:52):
top three tight end in the NFL, and then you
have you and me and we're you know, were working hard.
We're not we're not terrible by any means, but we're
just you know, we're limited in what we can do.
You know, we're a little older, a little slower than
than what we would hope. Uh So, yeah, I mean

(18:14):
you look at it from that perspective, it's definitely you
definitely see the problems and you realize that there's really
just I mean, realistically, there's just no solution, right.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
No, it really it's it's a struggle.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Oh I was just gonna say, And it goes in
with the running backs and eventually the you know, the
well even the offensive line that we'll talk about. Then
the defense, like investment doesn't guarantee success. And I think,
and I think especially for our fan base, they look
at it and go, I just don't like, you drafted

(18:53):
a guy in the third round. Why why isn't the
position better? And it's like, well, that guy's dead, so
that's why the overall position is not better, you know,
And you look at it from that perspective. Yes.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Coming up next on the Rest of Here podcast Best
Our Cardinals Talk on the Web, We've got more grades.
We're gonna go to the big guys. We're gonna go
offensive line, defensive line, and the edge. That's coming on
next to Rise Ups. He read, We're back on the
Rest of Here podcast, Best Our Cardinals Talk on the Web.
It is the It is our mid season Grades show,

(19:31):
episode seven and thirteen with the Cardinals on there bye week.
Now we've got to look at the offensive line where
you've got the starters, and I will say this, who
knew like.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
Paris great.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Jonah Williams at right tackle has been less than desirable.
Evan Brown at left guard worse than last year, but
not abysmal.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
Y defro Holtz seems to be playing at.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
More of an average clip than a slightly above average
clip that he was doing a couple of seasons ago.
And Isaiah Adams was bad, and while the individual play
of will Hernandez, I guess if you look at grades,
he's grading out really poorly. But for some reason, the
addition to will Hernandez to the offensive line unlocks something

(20:30):
for the offense. Now you can look at like if
you're looking at the two main metrics of the offensive line,
you look at the run game, which is bad, and
you look at pass protection, also not great. So they've
given up twenty four sacks in seven games. That's more
than three a game. Add to that the total of

(20:53):
quarterback hits that Brissett has taken in each of the
last two weeks.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
And.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Even with the promise of Paris Johnson, and even with
the improved overall play, with the addition of Hernandez. I
guess the O line for me is C minus and
you're probably gonna notice kind of a trend that with
my grades it's going to be very mid to bad

(21:25):
because that's kind of what the Cardinals have been playing.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Well, I was gonna say they're an average team, so
average grades for average teams would make a whole lot
of sense. You know, I look at it, and you
know there are a couple things to look at. Obviously,
One again, expectation wise, not even within the realm of
what we expected. Are at hope for right and again

(21:48):
that you know, whether or not it's fair, that was
the reality coming into this season. We had expectations and
maybe that's on us, right, Like maybe as fans we
should go, well, there's still one constant.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
And that's what that's what we get for hoping.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, that's the that's the owner, and so were we
deserve what we're getting, right, Like they're still not good.
But you know, again, I I this is never ever,
ever shade at Clayton Adams, Like I want people to
understand this, but like I genuinely cannot for the life

(22:29):
of me. Again, it's different in in high school and college, right,
because say you say you have your guys and then
they graduate or go to the NFL or go to
college or whatever, and they and they're gone, and now
you're bringing in freshmen or sophomores whatever, and the aligne

(22:51):
coach leaves that. I get that, like that's a that's
a teaching position. You're teaching these kids how to play.
These are professionals. And and outside of Isaiah Adams, there's
not a single like newbie to the group that's never

(23:12):
started NFL game. So so I have a really really
difficult time being like, oh, they just suck because Clayton
Adams has gone Like that just doesn't jive for me.
And you know, we you and I and and our

(23:33):
our buddies Blake and Johnny, we're we're having a chat
in our in our group chat. And and the pressure
numbers and those things are really interesting because I think
a lot of people have put and Kyler puts it
on himself. A lot of times put the sack numbers

(23:55):
or the pressure numbers on Kyler right, like, oh, you know,
he's skittish in the poll this or that. But then
you get Jacobrian in there, who is literally the complete
one eighty of that, and you look at it and
you go, oh, this offensive line is buns and and

(24:19):
those numbers all kind of that the the struggles that
we saw that that people are willing to push off
on the Kyler of like, oh, well, you know, he's
just not good in the pocket, like he's skittish, this,
that and the other. It's like or or they're bad.

(24:40):
And he was doing enough to like take some of
the pressure away from that. Because the Cardinals, if you
if you you know, subscribe to these rankings, the Cardinals'
overall offensive line rankings have gone from twelve with Kyler

(25:00):
in hand pass protection Lise twelve to eighteen. That's two weeks, Jess.
It's not like we're talking about, you know, going from
twelve to eighteen after game you know five to game twelve, right, no,
two games the offensive pass protection has gone from twelve

(25:23):
to eighteen, there's only well Will Hernandez. But I think
everybody's like, oh, Will's doing a great job.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
So he's certainly not worse than Isaiah Adams is what
we've seen.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
So the only change outside of the play calling, which
we went over in the last in the last episode,
is the quarterback. And again I'm not you know, naive
enough or I'm not one of those guys it's like, oh, yeah,
it's the quarterback, you know. But there is something to

(25:59):
the fact that you go from a guy that can
extend plays and create with his legs to somebody that
you know, can't really move and now your line is
being exposed kind of being ironic that people want wanted

(26:20):
to put the blame right like, oh this, you know,
the line would be better with a quarterback that stands
in the pocket, and blah blah blah blah. Two games in.
The answer is so I would give him. I mean,
see seems a little strong. CE minus seems probably close,

(26:45):
But again, you have if you take out the expectations
and you just say that they're average. Yeah, ce minus,
I think is.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Fairkay defensive line, which they threw so much. They've thrown
so much on this defensive line the last two years.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
I think I don't think there's a bigger overall disappointment
than that, right because.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, like last year, first round pick and Darius Robinson,
big money to Justin Jones and Bilal Nichols. Then this offseason,
big bigger money to Dalvin Tomlinson, a first round pick
in Walter Nolan, decent, a good contract to Kalais Campbell.
And in fairness, Kalais has not been a disappointment and

(27:39):
Dalvin Tomlinson has not been a disappointment. They in their
roles have been solid. Kalayas has come down a little
bit since, but we're getting close to the middle of
the season. He's thirty nine years old, so we can
expect that he's not going to maintain the same pace
of playmaking. But outside of Koleis and Dalvin, it has

(28:04):
been very disappointing. It just in the fact of availability.
You know, Blall, I'm shocked that he's back, but he's
already like he he's a good guy to have on
the line. The problem is is that they signed him
to be because he's he For his whole career, he's
been a starting level, like a decent starting veteran defensive lineman,

(28:28):
and now he's just kind of a rotational guy. Darius
Ramisen missed time, Walter Nolan still hasn't played, and I
wouldn't expect him back until Seattle. Like technically he could,
he could come off this next week, but he's not
practicing at all this week, so I expect them to
wait till after the Dallas came to activate him. We

(28:49):
won't see him til Seattle. Justin Jones hasn't played this year,
Eligent Collier's done for the year, and oh I think
for the year. Well, we don't know how long he's
gonna be out. And PG Mustifer, I mean in the
role that he has, like the back of the defensive
line room. He's been fine, but when you were expecting

(29:16):
far more bodies and far more impact. Now in fairness,
their run defense has been palatable, but they're not getting
any any sort of impact. In the past. Rush I mean,
Darius Robinson technically has a sack. I don't remember when
that happened Kalay Scott three sacks. But what do you

(29:40):
give this scroup? Because I guess the play hasn't been terrible,
but it certainly hasn't been good.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
No man, And it's been disappointing at best and bad
at worst. And that's the problem, right, because you're talking
about you're talking about out going into the season with
this idea of like, hey, this is going to be
the strength of your roster, and I understand again injuries,
so like we take into account injuries and we go, okay,

(30:10):
we gotta we got away the injuries. The injuries are
have been big this year. So what would our grade be?
And and the real the reality, yes, is that this
group is at best at best average and that's genuinely

(30:36):
at best.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, I'd say that I'd give them about a see
because but yeah, it's it just feels disappointing because they're
supposed to be better, but they haven't been an abject failure.
It's just there's some like the run defense isn't terrible,
although not when it counts. The pass rush hasn't been there,
but you are getting good play from Koleis in DT,

(30:57):
so at least there's that.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah. And that's the thing is, like you're getting good
play from guys that you expected good play from in
a very limited role like maybe thirty thirty five, and
they're playing that still that's all they're playing. Maybe a
little more, but not. I mean, they're not even playing
fifty percent of snaps. We went over that the other
day and they're the only again this is strong to

(31:24):
say it this way, but they're the only ones having
major impact. Like that's the problem, right, Like, that's that's
what the issue is, is that you need more from
all of these guys not named Kalaeis and Dalvin or else.
This is just going to be a complete cluster, you

(31:45):
know what. Overseason.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Then we go to the edge.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
We go to the edge where you've got Josh Sweat
with five sacks, you've got Baron Browning with two, say
and Collins with one.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Last week it had one really nice good.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
R Hell yeah, we're on the board.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
But you know Josh Sweat and and his five sacks scheme.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Early he's he's been impactful, but ultimately I know it's
just boring. But this has been a very I'll give him. Mmm,
you're not getting too much production. I think sweats sack numbers,
which helps the like you get, you get him up
to if he gets to double digits, which he's on

(32:29):
pace to do you get today, if he can somehow
get to double digits which he's pacing for, you feel
really good about that contract, you know you do?

Speaker 1 (32:38):
You feel great about that and and that's again that's
this is the hard part, man, Like the hard part
becomes it's not terrible, right, Like, it's not terrible, but
we're tired of not terrible, right right?

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Well then, I mean, g bg old Jeli.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
I don't even know if he's really a huge alive
or if he's star dude.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
That was just all the matrix that didn't even happen.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
This like did did did the Cardinals actually draft a
bj Ojalai two years ago? Because I'm not one hundred
percent convinced at this point, and you know that that
is the that him. That's one of the puzzling things
of this year because the Cardinals will not well and

(33:25):
in fact, my our our favorite person, Mark Dalton I
think it was Tao Mackie started asking if asked if
BJ suffered a setback in his recovery, only to have
Mark Dalton interrupt the question, say this is the last one,
completely derailed it to where that wasn't even the topic
of conversation because we expected BJ back by training camp.

(33:50):
And then we looked at the moves they made off
season and it was one hundred percent. They one hundred
percent treated this offseason at the edge like it wasn't
a human being in this room, because they go gut,
they go get sweat. They signed, they resigned Baron Browning,
They draft Jordan Birch, and you're like, oh, I forgot

(34:11):
about Jordan Birch, who who hasn't been terrible?

Speaker 4 (34:12):
But I mean, overall grade, is it enough to push
it in the B for me? It's not. I'm gonna
give them a C plus.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, I mean they don't. They're one of the worst.
I shouldn't say it that way. That's backtrack. They are decent,
slightly above average at getting getting pressures right. So, like

(34:47):
their pressure rate I think is nineteen. I'm double checking
my numbers here, Sorry, the pressure rate's twenty one, so
not good. Their past rush win rate is twelve. That's
where the number came. But so their pressure rates twenty one,
which is not good. They're pressure to sack rate, he's

(35:10):
really bad Jass twenty nine, twenty ninth. Overall, it's fifteen percent.
By twenty ninth overall, their sack rate is four point
two twenty eight. So they are not bad at winning
on pass rushes, but they don't create pressures or get
sacks out of them.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
So it's a great it's a great trait, right, So.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
But in fairness, they do like Zavian is a perfect
example where like you said it really well on on
social media, he's he's kind of he was a guy
that you know, probably wasn't worth a first round pick,
but was definitely worth the second contract. He is like
if you look at him as a player, if you

(36:00):
nor the lack of pass rush production, you'd say he's
a pretty he's a solid, starting caliber player because there's
so much he does really well. He's a very good tackler,
he's so strong, he's great against the run. He really
has found himself since moving to the edge in terms

(36:22):
of coverage ability and effectiveness, and there's definitely the want to,
but he just doesn't have the pass rushing juice. And
that's kind of if that ends up being almost like
the most important metric you get from the edge, like
especially from fans, but he does so much else really well.

(36:42):
But it's kind of it's kind of a dicative of
that entire room. Baron Browning, I guess you could say this,
they are getting their money's worth out of Josh Sweat.
They're getting their money's worth out of Baron Browning because
he's like if you look like, if you looked at
what he was for a couple of years at Denver,
you had the potential to be a five plus sack guys,
he got two sacks almost mid season, you're pacing for

(37:05):
about five six sacks and so but yeah, still not
non ideal. This defke the moves that they made. They
were supposed to have an upgraded defensive line and edge.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Room, and it is the here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
It is, but then attrition has really taken its toll.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
But it is in the sense that it's upgraded, but
it's like gone from like thirtieth to twenty ninth or
like you know, thirty first to twenty eighth or or
twenty third to twenty first. Like so it's it's factually better,
but it's not good and notaly not good enough, right,

(37:51):
And that's what the problem is is it's it's not good.
So we're looking at it and going, yes, it is better,
technically it's better, but it's not good. And that's what
the that's what the issue becomes.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Coming on next on the resi of Hereite podcast The
Best of Cardinals Talk on the Web, we're gonna go
back to the we got one more section. We're gonna
talk about the linebackers. We're going to talk about the
defensive backs, and we're gonna talk about the coaches.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
That's coming next to the receps.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
He read, We're back on the rise of Hereite podcast,
The Best are Cardinals Talk on the Web. We moved
to the linebacker room where no Kaisier White entered, Mac
Wilson enter as the mic a Keem Davis Gaither, Cody Simon.
We got one really good game from Mac against the

(38:38):
forty nine ers where he was he played with his
hair on fire and was fantastic against Christian McCaffrey, although
McCaffrey for some reason had a bad case of the
drops that game. But that the linebacker room hasn't been good.
Davis Gaither's not been great, Mac Wilson has. That's and

(38:59):
what's top is that Kaiser, who was really good in
twenty twenty three before he got hurt last year was
passable at best, and and Mac is not an improvement
over that. So I this is what I think it
might give my harshest grant at D plus for this
for the through the linebacker room right now.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Oh, you're being way too kind, man. I'll go dee,
just because I'm trying not to be overly critical. But yeah,
this has been bad armed and frustrating because it goes
to the line the edges, like it goes to everything

(39:41):
else being just okay, that they aren't even getting effective
play from their their backers, Like that's just that's super frustrating, right.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yeah, Well, and it, guys, it goes hand in hand.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
They upgraded the edge, the upgrade of the defensive line,
and we believe that those upgrades would make it so
that Mac and Davis gaither would be more than enough.
And you've talked about it a number of times on
this show. Is how Jonathan Gann and how manians and
for how they value that position. And it's really kind

(40:19):
of you know, put the put people in front of
them and you get guys who can just who can
just be fine and that's good enough from that group.
But they haven't even been that this year. But you
can also point to the fact that they have not
been dominant upfront. I think that's what they were banking on,

(40:40):
being near dominant upfront. And then where you've got a
couple of athletic, clean linebackers who can just clean up afterwards.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, and they're just not getting that. And and you know,
again we're talking like nine levels above anything I'm involved with.
So I don't mean this to come off as flippant, right,
but you know, when when we when we're going through
E grading and talking with our with our linebackers a lot, right,

(41:14):
one of the things that we we see so often
is that they're they're bad on their reads. And what
I mean by that is there was a there was
a great example of Josh Jacob's touchdown where Jacobs or

(41:36):
where the d line forced the bounce and you're like,
this is ideal, Like Dalvin Tomlinson. I mean, the the
the A plus play on the play would have been
Dalvin Thomlinson getting through the line and making the tackle
for three yard loss. That's the A plus play. But
Dalvin Tomlinson had like an A B plus level play

(41:58):
because he got through so quickly and forced Josh Jacobs
off his off his his landing spot or his aiming spot,
excuse me as a runner, and forced him to bounce
and move it. And so theoretically, right, like as a coach,
you go, okay, well, your linebacker should be scraping and

(42:21):
filling to the same landing spot. So then he would
have been able just to go and bounce into the
the route that Jacobs took and get a tackle at
the line of scrimmage, maybe a one yard game right,
very minimal gain on a second down play, and the

(42:45):
result of the play was a King Davis Gaither never
got downhill. He went lateral the entire time, and he
went so lateral that he overran the initial spot, over
ran the new spot, and allowed such a big cutback

(43:08):
lane that mac Wilson, who took a decent angle, couldn't
get there fast enough because it was so wide, and
it created such a cutback lane that even the backside backer,
I mean we're talking like you have to be Fred

(43:29):
Warner in his prime level to get there. And so
you know that's the thing that you look at you
and you gain from that overall? Is that man, that's
just that's just bad linebacker play. Like like you said,
like run, pill, clean up, that's what you should be doing,

(43:53):
and instead you're just getting You're getting guys that are
making a lot of tackle sure, because they're making tackles
seven plus yards downfield. This is, uh, who's the guy
that Jordan Jordan Hicks right, Like is Jordan Hicks two
point zero where you're like, yeah, Jordan Hicks leads the

(44:13):
team in tackles, but his average depth of tackles six yards.
Like if if your linebackers making it tackle that deep,
it's it's a bad day. So all that say, yeah,
D plus is really I'll give it a D plus
as well because I'm trying to be nice, but yeah,
that's a very uh, it's a very kind grade of you.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Just uh, going to the defensive backs. I haven't hated
the play of the defensive backs this year.

Speaker 4 (44:40):
Buddha.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Buddha has kind of been neutralized in many ways.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Right, frustrating to see him not playing at a high level.
And you wonder if it's if it's just that I'm
he talks about.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
This, is that they're avoiding him, like offenses are actively
avoiding him.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
And well, what they're doing is they're actively avoiding him
in the run game, and they're and they're going after
him in the passing game, which is something we haven't
seen previously. But there must have been something that came
up on the film that that teams are like, oh,
he's he's a step slow right now, Yeah, and so

(45:33):
and so that's just that's just disappointing. But you and
I talked about that before the seasoning. That started right
when we when we had the discussion about guys like
him and Tyra Matthew, right like, at the end of
the day, literally you can take absolutely zero away from
these guys. They are warriors. They're all pros. They're borderline

(45:55):
Pro Bowl level play or Hall of Fame level player.
Excuse me, but when you're that undersized in a game
of giants, in a game of just dudes that are
all huge, it's a matter of time when you play

(46:19):
the style they do.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yeah, and Jalen Thompson has been fine, fine rabbit. Taylor
Demerson has been a nice playmaker in the limited role
that he's had. Like he's he's got the few interceptions,
he's got five pass breakups and that that's what he
did at Texas Tech. Now has he been perfect, No,
he's definitely not. Like he's not at the same level

(46:44):
as JT or Buddha. And if we look at the
cornerbacks as well, cornerback play hasn't been bad. Will Johnson
has been very good. Got picked on with the flags
a little bit last game. Max Melton's been fine, Garrett
Wilson was really it was playing well before he got hurt,
and and when they had to play Denzel Burke and

(47:05):
ke Trell Clark, they had moments. And so if I'm
looking at that whole defensive back room, despite the the
woes they have in the passing game overall statistically and
especially late in the game, I say, the defensive back
room gets a gets a solid B minus.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah. I think we're we're understandably giving them a slight
bump because of how young they are, and we're going, hey,
it's a lot better than we expected. Right when when
Sean Murphy Bunting and then Charlie Thomas both you know,
went on IR or whatever Murphy Bunting's on to start

(47:48):
the season or before the season started technically, right, we
went like like, don't get us wrong, we like Max Meltain,
we love Will Johnson and Garrett Williams, but it's still
it's still when you're talking about probably the hardest non

(48:10):
quarterback position to play in the NFL, right corner specifically,
and so to see them playing at this high level,
and it's interesting that you know, Will Johnson was the
best rated rookie corner unfortunately until this last game, and

(48:32):
he definitely he definitely had a bad game. It was
what it was. I mean, these things happen, right, but overall,
I think that you have to be pleasantly surprised with
what you've gotten so far.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Yeah, And like we can look at the defensive failures
they've had have either come due to the lack of
of dominant well lock of above average play up front,
and also the the injuries for a couple of weeks
when they didn't have Max or Garrett Williams or Will Johnson.

(49:15):
I guess Max ended up not missing any time, but
they didn't have Will, they didn't have Garrett and Garrett,
and so then you're you're leaning on Kee Trell Clark
and Denzel Burke Clark who made a couple of plays,
but He also was the one that gave up the
that monster pass too. He was only got picked on
front by for yeah, set Calvin Ridley too, oh it

(49:39):
and and the Calvin Ridley oh oh my gosh. He
he made some game saving plays against Carolina and then
whoop after that. Uh, finally we'll do specials and coaches like, honestly,
special teams has been solid.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
I'll give the special teams a solid B plus. So far.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
We had the one botch kickoff, but Ryland's been good.
The combination of Blake Gillickan and Pad O'Donnell have been fine.
They've made some plays in the return game.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
I wanted to ask you real quick about the Ryland things.
We didn't address this and I completely spaced it. That's
on me after last game. Do you put the end
of the half situation on Ryland or Jeff Rodgers.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
Coaches? Because you do they?

Speaker 1 (50:30):
I mean, are they the ones? And I'm genuinely asking,
because I don't know, are they the ones dictating where
he needs to kick the ball?

Speaker 3 (50:38):
I would I would have to say so, like when
you've got a young kicker like you gouts your that's
and JG said as much. That was his call, like
whether he's covering for someone else, but his call was okay,
boot it out the back.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
Of the end zone.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
So I have a hard time believing that Chad Ryan
islands making all making kick kick kickoff calls, that he's
just doing what he's asked to do. And in the
case of the the of the one kickoff that that
fell short of the landing zone which ended up lost,
that was called, you know, because they tried to do

(51:16):
a squib, and squibs are highly unpredictable.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
You don't know what they Well.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, the squib one, I'll never get upset about because
unless it's something that you've done three or four times
already in the game, it's asking a lot, right, Like,
it's asking a lot. But the other ones, Yeah, like
like that one specifically, I was kind of curious what
your take on it was because it just was such

(51:44):
a it was just such a bad, bad look right to.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
It was so Cardinals, Like, it was such such a
fourth quarter Cardinals play when they needed this, and it's
just a botched they just botched something else. So they've
botched defense, they've botched offense, and oh wait, now we
botched on special teams.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
As well.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
But I've been the special teams have not been the problem,
and so for that, I'll give them a solid B because.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yeah, the special teams have not cost them a game,
though maybe maybe maybe Seattle. But that's again that's a
that's a very I don't you know. Again, I don't
ever like to do that to kickers and things like that, because,

(52:42):
like you said, are they the ones making that call?

Speaker 3 (52:46):
So yeah, and then now we go to the coaches,
which I'm I don't give them an F because I mean,
look at some of the teams around the league, like
the Cardinals are two and five, and record wise that
puts on par with the Giants and the Saints and
bad teams like that. But their losses are by a
total of thirteen points. And so you don't you know

(53:08):
that the two and five is a it's it's a
deceptive two and five. They're a better team than two
and five, but the record is what they are, and
we've talked about it is when you consistently lose close games,
that's that's a coaching thing. When it's over and over

(53:31):
and over, that's a coaching thing. And so you know,
Aaron Glenn and the coaching staff over there with the
Jets that they get an F and and I see
Aaron Glenn and anytime they make a higher like that,
I'm like, I'm gonna have to remember that. You know,
he reminds me of a mix of both Steve Wilkes
and Mike Singletary too highly respected assistance and and yes

(54:00):
and who their hirings were lauded universally, only to fail spectacularly.
It's a it's really disappointed to see. But Aaron Glenn
fits like that. He's Steve Wilkes and Mike's he's a

(54:20):
little bit swilkes on, a little bit Singletary because of
the stuff that he says.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
But so that's a that's a failed job out there.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Obviously, I'm not gonna say that the coaching staff gets
a failing grade, but it's somewhere right there at D
and D minus because and Jonathan Gannon is not immune
to this. Everyone's talking about that, and and the reason
why people don't blame Gannon more for it is because

(54:53):
he has strategically avoided being the play caller. So he's
not the defensive play call or he's not the offensive
the league like a lot of you know, coaches are
head coaches are in the NFL, and so you're looking
at the play calling of Raless, you're looking at the
play calling or the scheme of Petsy, when one percent
the reason they are like the schemes and play calls

(55:17):
are influenced by Gannon's philosophy. We we've talked enough about
Drew Petsy on this show. I felt I felt coming
into this year that Nick Ralis should have more pressure
on him than he because he is a darling around

(55:38):
the NFL because of his creativity whatnot and his mentality
as a defensive coordinator. But the fact of the matter
is is that in twenty twenty three and twenty twenty
four he had a bad defense and he had a
badly manned defense talent wise, and this year they added
the pressure of putting a lot of money and capital
into it.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
Only two not be clutch like.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
So they're good until they need to be and and
so like the coaches overall, I mean, it's between D
and D minus. I'm not going to give them feeling great,
but they're definitely not that they are definitely perhaps the the.

Speaker 4 (56:20):
Main catalyst for this over and over lost thing.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
That's that's what I kind of think is they're they're
kind of main contributors to plumb. Obviously, the players make
the plays on the field, but I don't think the
coaches are doing the players any verse.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
No, And I look at it, and you know, I
look at this as as you know you can break
it down. And even further, I would give I would
give Rales a D because of all the new toys
he was he was offered. I was going to give
pet Saying a C until the last two weeks, and

(56:59):
I know people are gonna like, well, you know, you're
just making excuses.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
No.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Again, when you break down the numbers, the way that
he's called games differently for the two quarterbacks tells me
that he is not utilizing his assets in the best way.
And so again, unless unless somebody can like give me
proof that Tyler is in the meeting and be like

(57:25):
I don't want to I don't want to run that play.
I'd rather throw another screen more, right, Like I I
want to see that, you know. And so that's how
I look at that. So I'll give I'll give Petsing
a D as well, but I would genuinely give uh

(57:47):
Jonathan Gannon an F and and here's why. So yeah,
so here's why you're in charge of everything. You're the guy,
and the buck stops with you. And so if your
OC is telling you, well, my offense doesn't work with

(58:11):
our highly paid quarterback, then your offense is the problem. Okay,
that's just the reality if your offense. If you're saying like, oh,
well this guy runs it better, Okay, well, then what
what in the offense can you adjust to make it

(58:34):
function at a higher level? And then defensively, like you said,
why are we in seven consecutive weeks? Why are we
failing in the fourth quarter for seven straight weeks?

Speaker 4 (58:55):
Like, and it's without fail. They're they're without fail failing.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
And the only reason they didn't lose to Carolina and
New Orleans is because one New Orleans is bad and
Carolina they just built a big enough lead that they
almost couldn't lose it, right exactly, and they tried to
lose it.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
So yeah, so that's the thing is like, you know,
the coordinators are doing their thing, and maybe, like you said,
at the behest of Jonathan Gannon and so then at
that point, like the failure of the season two and five, Yeah,
even though it is by thirteen points is because of

(59:40):
the coaching. And here's the thing, you know, I'd rarely
have ever wade into the comments section at the site
because I just I don't think it does anything. But
there have been multiple comments that I've I've bit my finger,

(01:00:00):
I guess so to speak, and not typed out like, well,
the players have to make plays. Well, if after seven
weeks the players are not making plays, then either change
the players or change the scheme, Like you can't. You
can't just keep running it back and being like, well
the players just start making play, Well, then it's not working.

(01:00:22):
So what do you do? Like, what is your response
and how do you fix it? And to me, that's
the biggest failure of this franchise right now.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
And that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
And with that we will wrap up this edition of
the Rise of Serio podcast Best Our of Cardinals Talk
on the Web. That wraps up our two shows this week.
We don't have a game to review, so what we
will shoot for our two late week shows where we
preview the Cardinals Cowboys, and then I will try and
get Katie Drummond from Cowboys Wire or another Cowboys analyst

(01:00:58):
to preview that game. Seth Cox I'm jes Ruthe. Thanks
for listening. As always is We'll be geck again soon.
Thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher Radio, Audio Boom,
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(01:01:18):
to your mobile device. Please give the show a five
star ready and always support the sponsors who support the show.

Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
We'll be back soon for the best hour of cardinals
talk on.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
The web, Rise Up Red, c B Red Sea Red,
and of course Rise Up Sea Red.

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
There is It