Cardinals free agency grades, additions, reactions, remaning needs

The Arizona Cardinals have made some moves in free agency, both adding new player and re-signing others. Jess and Seth break down the moves, give grades and talk about what is still needed to do (although Jess flies solo for the final part of the show as the power went out at Seth's home and disconnected). 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast, all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
And Seth Cox. Was Cardinals fans and welcome to the
latest edition of the Rise Up Secret Podcast best of
Cardinals Talk on the Web. I'm your host Jess Root
from Cardswire dot com, the USA Today NFL Wire say
the covers your Arizona Cardinals in episode sixty seven. This
is our first show since the start of free agency

(00:48):
recording with my co host Seth Cox from Revenge of
the Birds dot com. Its be Nation's Arizona Cardinals Tite
and this is our free agent reaction show. So we
My goodness, Seth. The ross looks different right now. But
there was there were a couple of days, you know,
starting Monday. Wait, there were a couple of days where
Cardinals fans were a little big We're going a little

(01:09):
bit out of their minds, weren't they.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, I mean it was interesting and we always say,
you know, kind of be patient and let the chips
fall and then attack it that way, and you know,
I thought, I thought that the Cardinals did a nice
job of getting that splash signing early and that they

(01:34):
were you know, kind of in the right spot. And
then you know, people and I get it. I mean,
people really wanted to see this team go all in,
so to speak, and it's like that doesn't really happen
like that. Like, you know, even last year, the team

(01:55):
that won the Super Bowl, right, they hit a couple
home runs and free agency, but it's not like they
overspit for Saquon Barkley or Zach Bond. In fact, they
had to up them because they played so well in
the system that now they're like, okay, now we have
to pay you in accordance. And then that's kind of
how free agency is supposed to work, right, Like, you

(02:16):
don't you don't want to go get the guys. I mean,
think about last year, who who was the guy everybody
wanted the Cardinals to get. Christian Wilkins, Right, Yes, didn't
pan out for Las Vegas. Now doesn't mean he won't
pan out this year and doesn't mean he won't be
a fantastic asset for the Raiders, but uh, definitely wasn't

(02:37):
worth the contract and and everything that he signed thus far.
And so that's kind of what free agency is, right,
It's a lot of wish casting. It's a lot of
I want to see my team do something big and
then when it when reality hits or when it doesn't occur,
you know, we get a lot of hand hand ringing.

(02:58):
We get a lot of they're just sitting on their hands.
They're not even trying this this. You know, the owners
in competent, the GM's in competent. You know, this and
that and the other. And it's like, well, no, we
just got to kind of let everything play out. And
you know, on day two or I guess technically technically
the first day of actual free agency, they kind of

(03:20):
hit it out of the park, right.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Hey, they did, And that that's the thing is like,
wasn't it a case and we'll run through, we'll run
through the moves that they've made so far. But didn't
it feel like that going into free agency they kind
of needed to make two big moves And now that
those two big moves have happened, everyone sort of this, Okay,

(03:47):
we're not doing nothing. It's not a disappointment. It is
that what it was that they they got the one
big signing but missed out on a couple of others,
but then landing this this other guy, defensive tackle, Dablin Tumas,
and by adding him that sort of put everyone back
into Okay, we are doing something.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, I think so, and I mean, we talked about
it last week. They we knew, I mean, and and
you know, again pulling back to curtains to touch here,
we knew from people we trusted they had their eyes
set on three big fish. They they were in heavy

(04:31):
on Josh Wett obviously, who is their their you know,
prize of the free agent class. They were all in
on Milton Williams, and they were very very heavily in
on Will Freese, the the guard from the Indianapolis Colts.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
And go ahead. What I was going to say is
that the Milton Williams and Will Freese got ridiculous money.
When we were projecting you and you were talking twenty
million years that I thought was crazy for millions. For
him to get twenty six million per year as a

(05:12):
guy that, let's be honest, hasn't accomplished a lot in
his career was wild. I thought twenty million dollars a
year was wild. I am beginning to wrap my head
around the new value of contracts in free agency as
the cap has gone up. You know, twenty million is

(05:36):
I guess thirty million is now the new twenty million,
right right? And so but him getting twenty six million
a year, it had the Cargos given him that contract
in probably about six months flat, fans would be griping
about it because that is a contract that is one

(05:59):
hundred percent built up to disappoint. Uh.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
I mean we're talking this guy now has to be
an all pro Like, there's no there's.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
No nearly getting paid as much as Chris Jones, who
is the best pass rushing interior defensive player in the league.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Right. And that's the hard part, right, that's the hard
power part about all of this is that you look
at how it goes and what happens. And this is
this is the wild thing. Man. Think about this, Jess.
We're both in on Milton Williams. Like we we were
hopeful to a chist, right I said twenty one you

(06:42):
you were like eighteen, Like that was kind of where
we wanted to be. He got he got twenty six
a year, as you said. But think about this right
right now, Jess, Right now, his contract is the biggest
number given out this free agency period, the biggest number,

(07:08):
meaning his one hundred and four million dollars eclipsed what
the Seattle Seahawks gave Sam Donald a quarterback. Like now
Sam Donald is getting more per year, but that one
oh four is the highest number in all of football

(07:31):
this for free agencies year, which crazy, just wild to say.
He got the biggest guaranteed, the biggest guaranteed sixty three
million dollars. Uh.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
And then on top of that, and then we go
to will freeze. Then the five years eighty eight million
or was it five to ninety three, I don't remember,
but it was something absurd, and I know this, there
were like five teams involved, and that ultimately it was
Minnesota willing to go five years. Seattle offered him three

(08:06):
and fifty. I bet the Cardinals were in the ballpark
there as well, three or four years. But if you're
gonna throw that and Minnesota is in the Minnesota is
in the loading the roster face because they basically have
a rookie quarterback and they're going all in with the rookie,
and so you've got to you have to put all

(08:30):
the talent everywhere else.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Well, not just that, Jess, but we also see what
happens right. There hasn't been a team that's been more
competitive and better than the San Francisco forty nine ers
the last three years. And that doesn't mean that it's over.
And I don't want it to come off this way,
but that's over, right, like.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
That that window, like they have to they have to
build a new door, build a new house, like if
you haven't Petitan attention. Like they're left with Brock Purty,
uh acl Torn Brandon, Aiyuk, George Kittle, and then DeMarcus Robinson,
you know, Ebo, Samuel Out, Kyle Yust check out, Aaron

(09:13):
Banks out, Jalen Moore out, Javon hargreat Out, dra Green Lawn,
Tarvarious war Taaloa Hufanga. So much of that team go.
They have to reload. They have to.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, and and they still haven't even paid party yet,
and it sounds like those negotiations aren't going well, which
is another situation.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Just are for the course for the forty nine ers
and there then there, guys, this will be gross until
training camp. That's how it was with Bosa, It's how
it was with Ayuk. It's how it was with Deebo.
The only one who wasn't like contankerous I think was
George Kittle, but it took a while.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
But even Trent Williams was a hold in. Remember even
and Brent Williams was at that point arguably the best
football player in the NFL. And they're they're like, still,
so yeah, I mean, I mean, it's it's that's how
it goes. And so that's the thing that you have
to remember, have to look at. You know, the Vikings

(10:18):
are in a situation right now where they're saying like,
we basically want this to be the best team possible,
regardless of who the quarterback is, and we're just gonna
hope and hope, like hell that JJ McCarthy's the answer.
But it's wild to think that, yeah will freeze and

(10:40):
they don't have his guarantees in yet. And I'm really
interested to see what that looks like, you know, what
that ends up looking like, because eighty eight million is absurd.
And again, I don't want to off as like anything

(11:03):
or Jess and I are never ever ever about going
in players pockets get paid.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
We don't care, Yes, are glad these players are getting paid.
All the money but do we want our teams to
pay that much for those players. That's a different story
because you have to manage the cap and the roster.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Well, But Jess, think about this, like, think about some
of these numbers that we're seeing. Man, Like, you know,
you go, you go to the offensive line, right and
Will Frees, I mean, he's getting paid. He's getting paid
like Clinton Nelson and Chris Linstrom. And again I'm not like,

(11:46):
I like Will Frees. I thought he was a nice player.
I thought he would have been a great addition. Like you,
you can't justify in any way, shape or form, paying
a guy that's coming off an injury that only played
five games last year being one of the highest I mean,

(12:07):
he's literally just below Robert Hunt now in terms of
of OUs per year. That's that's insane to me. Like
it's just absurd to me, you know, And and that's
all you know, that's just offensive line, right, Like, but

(12:28):
to see, you know, to see him as a the
sixth highest paid offensive offensive garden in the NFL. You
you just look at it and you go, what what
like he.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Will like, he better be he better be healthy all
year and he better be great. He better be great,
because otherwise and.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
Then you look at Milton to your point, like you
you look at Milton Williams, man, Milton Williams is the
fourth highest paid defensive lineman in the NFL, the fourth
and the you know aav average, you know average per year.
Like again, we're big fans of Milton Williams. We wanted

(13:10):
that to work out, but we had you know, and
this isn't this isn't hindsight. You can go back and
listen to Jess and I's conversations, like we both we
both had questions. We straight up had questions. But the
fact that you're going to pay him the same thing
as you're paying you know, you're paying him more than
Dexter Lawrence, Like you're paying like that, And I get

(13:33):
salaries escalate and I understand all that, but I mean,
we're talking about a guy that literally has never played
more than fifty percent of steps in his in his
career and now he is the fourth highest paid defensive
lineman in the NFL. Like that that's where and I

(13:54):
get it, you nailed it, the acceleration of the money,
the cap, But I mean Dexter Lawrence is a year older,
he's he's a three time Pro bowler, he's a two
time All Pro. He finished top ten and Defensive Player
of the Year voting. He's coming off a nine sacks
season like and and Dexter Lawrence, who's much much larger

(14:19):
than Milton Williams, by the way, has never played less
than sixty percent of the snaps in the league ever,
and last year he played seventy three percent of the snaps.
He was available to play, Like, that's that's what you're
paying for, right, Like, that's that's the expectation now. And

(14:41):
we would have had this exact same conversation, and we
would have had this exact same dialogue if it was
the Cardinals, because it would be like, look, he's got
to play more than sixty percent of snaps. He has to,
like a you have to be an impact player on

(15:03):
more than fifty percent of the snaps to really be
considered one of those guys. And I just that's where
I'm at with this thing, you know. And so that
was obviously the Melton Williams, the wil Freese, who they
didn't get they were in on three. They got Josh Wett.
We're excited about Josh. What I think that's.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Let's let's talk about specifically the four guys that they
have added, all on defense, the new additions. Let's let's
break each one of those deal, those deals down grade
and what's our thought. Let's start with Josh Sweat four years,
seventy six point four millions, was getting nineteen point one
million per year, you know, that was and he said

(15:47):
it at his introductory press conference this afternoon on a
on a Thursday. He said it was a no brainer.
Everyone matched him to the Cardinals, both nationally and locally,
and it was the that made sense. What was you?
What is your take on the Josh Sweat deal?

Speaker 3 (16:08):
I mean, it makes sense, and like you said, what
it is, number end up coming in as I'm.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Sorry, nineteen point one per year for four years, so
that point four.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
So that puts him at fifteenth in the NFL. And
that doesn't include guys that have been signed this year.
I don't know how many defensive ends or edge guys
have been, you know, signed above him. You know, it
puts him right above a guy that I know a
lot of fans wanted to see the Cardinals trade forward,
and that's Trey Hendrickson. You know, so I thought when

(16:44):
you look at it. Is he a top fifteen pass
rusher in the NFL? Probably not? Right, Like, you know,
we we can always be honest about how these things
work out. I thought last year eight sacks, you know,
fifteen quarterback hits, nine tackles for loss, like it was,

(17:05):
it was a little bit of a down year in
terms of production for sweat. But he did that and
then really really turned up the juice in the playoffs,
and that's you know, we can look at that and
see how well he played in the playoffs and in
that playoff run. Right this year, you're talking about a

(17:26):
guy that played in outside of the Washington game where
they were just you know, blitzing or not blitzing, but
literally but you know, blitzing the Commanders the whole game
and it wasn't really competitive. He played over seventy seven
percent of the snaps in the playoffs, so it went
he went from a sixty two percent snap player to

(17:49):
over seventy seven percent of the snaps in the In
the Super Bowl, where he was maybe the best defensive
player on the field, you know, he played eighty two
percent of the snaps. He looked fantastic, could look fresh,
you know, obviously the two and a half sacks, the
two tackles for lost, two or three quarterback hits on
top of that. Now, obviously that's not the expectation. We're

(18:11):
not expecting thirty five sacks. I mean that would be wonderful, right,
but uh, you know, even twelve sacks would would do.
But it's the it's a consistent presence that we're hoping
he provides that you're paying for. And and you know,
you and I were kind of talking about it off

(18:33):
the air, and then obviously we talked a little bit
about here. You know, that thirty million a year or
that twenty million a year now is a thirty million
dollar a year contract. So looking at him at you know,
nineteen plus million a year, it's not crazy. I mean
you're talking a couple of years ago, you're talking about
a fifteen million dollar a year contract, right, So it's

(18:56):
not anything crazy, it's it's a good number. I feel
like he's in the right position, the right spot, and
he gives the Cardinals a chance to be you know,
a really competitive pass rush this year, along with some

(19:18):
of their other moves that they were able to make.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, what would you grade the move again? You have
to give the letter grade. I'll give you minew second,
but I want to hear what what's your take on that? Overall?

Speaker 3 (19:30):
I thought it was A. I think it's a B
like I. You know, an A is a guy that
is that is one. Let's be honest, that doesn't hit
the market, right. A guys are the ones that don't
hit the market. But I thought I think the money's
inn A. I think the players probably a very solid

(19:52):
B level player. We know he's not an elite pass rusher,
We're not paying that toll, but he was. He is
a very good pass rusher, a very consistent pass rusher,
and gives them a presence that they've lacked and it fills,
you know what, they're one of their top two needs

(20:14):
that they had going into it. They didn't overpay, they
didn't over extend themselves in any way, and they got
they got an excellent, excellent football player. I can't give
it anything less than a BEE.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
I personally gave this, and it's because I'm being slightly
more cautious, and also I still I'm worried. I'm thinking
about the fan perspective because I don't think everyone has
quite made the money shift. That twenty million, like thirty
million is now what twenty million was like two and
a half years ago. But I gave this great, this

(20:50):
movie a C because this has a high possibility for disappointment,
not bust, but disappointment at night. Team million dollars a year,
Blake fans are gonna want to see ten to eleven sacks,
and if he has seven or eight, which is probably
what that contract now is worth in terms of today's

(21:13):
NFL market, I think it's gonna feel disappointing. But yeah,
and so it he believes he wants to take the
next level. I think he wants to be a double
digit sack guy. He's had it once. But I'm a
little more cautious about it because now he's also on

(21:37):
a defense where he doesn't have nearly the elite talent
on the interior or even on the outside. Because last year,
you know Nolan.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
What's his name, Nolan Nolan Smith.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yet Smith, Nolan Smith a murder. Before that, you had
Hassan Reddick, You've always had Brandon Graham. So he's never
had to be like he's always been a consistent performer,
like he's been on the field a lot, but he's
never had to be the guy, and now he's being
paid like the guy if he can, I think if

(22:16):
he has eight plus every year, but if it goes
lower than I think it's going to be, this has
the potential to be an eight contract. It does, especially
if we see how we see the contracts go in
the years to come. But I'm just slyly more cautious
about it. But I cannot deny that. And we'll get
to and when we move to the segment we talk

(22:37):
about returning players, just how much better that outside linebacker
room looks as opposed to the beginning of last season.
Let's move on to deal number two, the big one
before we moved on the two smaller ones, and that
was this was the one that was the surprise, you know,
after the Cardinals swung and missed for Milton Williams, and

(22:58):
you know, then defensive tap here, defensive tackle hair getting
signed up, you know, Dravon Hargrave, lines elsewhere, all these
other names get swooped up elsewhere. The news came Wednesday
night that the Cardinals agreed to a two year, twenty
nine million dollars deal with Dalvin Tomlinson, who got cut

(23:20):
by the Browns. And he's older, thirty one years old.
But guess what this for me is a This one
is an a deal because he immediately is the best,
most consistent defensive lineman in the room. And while he's
thirty one years old, you're getting in at under fifteen

(23:43):
million dollars a year, and it really completes what your
main rotation is going to look like right now. He
is very good against the run. He's massive at six
three three twenty five and not only does he play
well against the run, he gets consistent push. In the

(24:06):
past rush he's had between two and a half and
three and a half sacks. I think, what is it
like six straight years. He's had ten plus tackle quarterback
hits in four of the last five years. He is
just a consistent disruptor at a position that isn't a

(24:27):
you know, he plays mainly a nose tackle type position.
It's probably where he'll start. And that's really good, solid
production at a position that doesn't typically produce high volume numbers.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
No it doesn't. And so you know you've you've hit
it on the head with well Dalvin. You know he
is if he he's it's an a. But he's also
a guy that if this was five years ago, we're
you know, kind of jumping, jumping up and down, right like,
we're like, holy crap. If they got him at twenty

(25:07):
seven when he signed with Minnesota, we're going, holy crap,
what a what a shift in culture and things like that,
because we haven't seen that. We haven't seen that. And
you know, you look at his numbers just and that's
the most important thing to him or to us about him.
He's a guy that plays, you know, sixteen games in

(25:33):
seven of his eight seasons. One season he only played
thirteen games in those seasons. He has one season in
the last five and that was in twenty twenty one
where he was under sixty percent of the snaps played.
This is a guy that is as much of an

(25:54):
every down interior defensive lineman as you'll see in the
NFL today outside of the elite handful right outside of
the Christian Wilkins, outside of the outside of the guys
that are so good. And that was kind of what
our conversation going back to Milton Williams was about, right, like,

(26:14):
that's those are the guys that you pay that twenty
five plus million two guys that are playing and let's
be honest, like even sixty percent that snaps. And like
you said, the reason this is an a signing is
because the contract matches the expectations, right, Like you said,
it's hard with the sweat signing to wrap your head

(26:35):
around he's almost getting twenty million a year when he's
an eight sack a year guy. But that's kind of
where the where the you know, inflation has come in at.
But for Dalvin, he's getting paid what he should because
those sixty to seventy percent snap guys, those are those

(26:56):
are the guys that are not the sexy signings. They're
the guys that do the dirty work, that are in consistently,
you know. And then if you do get past Rush,
if you end up with three sacks and eighteen quarterback
hits right career high in quarterback hits by the way
last year, if you get that from him, then it's

(27:18):
just a bonus. But he is an anchor in the
middle of the defense. He is exactly what this team
is needed. And then the other thing, Jess and you know,
we'll talk about this more in the next couple of
weeks once we start really diving into the draft, But
what is the one thing that you and I have
kind of intimated over the last several years about drafting,

(27:41):
especially interior defensive linemen. They don't play a lot early
and it takes them two to three seasons to get
used to the NFL. The Cardinals have now in a
brilliant way, got themselves in a position where they don't
have to worry about it because they had Tomlinson so well.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
And on top of that, by the way, I know
you fans are upset about this. The Cardinals one hundred
percent want and are comfortable with Justin Jones and the
law Nichols on this defensive line. They're not down on them.
They just got hurt. And now you've got three twenty

(28:30):
seven year old plus established, consistent, veteran productive defensive lineman
and Nichols, Justin Jones and Dalvin Tomlinson. That is a
very good core. Adding to it Darius Robinson, adding the
potential of Dante Stills, and then adding as we're going

(28:52):
to talk about the return of L. J.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Collier, Well, but think about this, just just to that point,
you you can roll out next year Justin Jones, Dalvin Tomlinson,
and Darius Robinson, and then your backups can be Dante
Still's Blald Nichols and LJ. Collier, or you know, you

(29:18):
can move on from a guy. We don't know exactly
what Colliers numbers are going to look like, but you know,
if they're able to draft a guy in round one
or two and they go, okay, we don't we don't
necessarily need LJ. Now right again, We'll have to look
at what his guarantees are and stuff like that, but
then they can make that move too. And so what

(29:40):
they've done is they've allowed themselves if they do get
a guy that they love at sixteen or forty seven
or eighty whatever it is, they can go, okay, we
can take this guy. They don't have to go okay,
how do we how do we make sure we end
up with Derek Harmon or Kenneth Grant or whoever the
name that you want to want uses, right, They they've

(30:02):
put themselves in a position that it's I don't want
to say easy, because it's never easy, obviously, but it's
easy to go about your business and be like, Okay,
we don't have to worry about any of these positions
because we've got we've got veterans, we've got young guys
we've got, I mean, we haven't seen this in a

(30:22):
couple of years, and you know, you look at their
depth chart right now, and the fact that outside of
outside of Justin Jones, it's you know, guys that that
we weren't depending on coming into last year. I mean,
you and I were high on Darius Robinson, but we're like,

(30:42):
you know, it'll take a little bit of time for
him to get his feet wet. And no, no, Now
you look at it and you go, Okay, you know
Justin Jones, Dalvin Thomlinson, and Darius Robinson, if they're your
three starters and your three backups are the guys that
were starters at the end of last year, Holy cow.
Like that's that's the improvement we talked about. And it
doesn't mean that you're going to be a top ten

(31:03):
defense now by any means, Like we're not saying that.
But at the same time, it's nice that you're like, oh,
this is this is a group that's insanely improved and
they didn't overspend right, like exactly, you don't feel like
twenty six million, this guy better, this guy better show

(31:25):
up and bring it right.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yes, that's why I love that deal. Now, the other
two moves that they made on defense are not exciting additions,
but one of them tracks for the last three years.
So they added two off ball linebackers, one being a
Keen Davis Gathers, who spent the last seven seasons with
the Cincinnati Bengals. He comes in at a two years,

(31:52):
about eleven million. He was a captain last season, a
special teams guy mostly, but he filled in ably down
the stretch for Logan Wilson. The last seven starts of
the year he played, he was a starter. He's been
basically kind of a rotational guy, but he tracks to

(32:15):
be the Cardinals starter to replace Kaizier Wider at least
to be in the mix. And then they added Mike
Michel or Michael Walker, formerly of the Falcons, formerly of
the Steelers, formerly of the Commanders last year, who was
almost exclusively special teams. One year deal coming in less
than two million. That's that's just a normal deal, you know.

(32:37):
He The thing about Walker I like, and it's a
little and so it make it looks makes it look
like Heiser White and Chris Barnes are done. And so
now you've got mac Wilson, You've got Ady g You've
got Walker, You've got Owen, Papo, and then you've got
a couple of guys behind them by Jones, my Loeifler

(32:58):
think guys like those and you look and you this
is what they've done the last two years. They've taken
a rotational slash special teams guy that they signed to
not a lot of money and turned him into his starter.
They did that with Josh Woods. We thought they we
wondered who was going to be the starter next to

(33:20):
Kaiser Wide and it's being Woods. Then he hurts his
knees done for the he he hasn't I don't think
he ended winning when last year then last year Mac Wilson,
who is their high upside signing, where he had been
a starter once before but had basically been a rotational
special teams guy, they turned him into a key starter.

(33:40):
And I think that's what they're doing with with David
Gather is that they see someone with upside and and
you know, you have mentioned a lot over the last
couple of years about kind of the philosophy that Jonathan
Gannon has with off ball linebackers, and that is well

(34:02):
and hughe b act to the Philadelphia Eagles Philadelphia Eagles
haven't drafted in the first round and off the ball
linebacker since was I think nineteen ninety four I heard,
I think I heard on a podcast, and that's why
they haven't drafted off the ball linebacker in the first
round and in thirty years. And that kind of tracks
like unless you're and they just paid Zach bon a
gazillion months of dollars, but they view that position unless

(34:24):
you have an elite guy, you can get adequate to
good production from adequate guys, And isn't that kind of
what they did. So but both those me like I'd
say the Michael Walker edition is a solid bee because
he gives you like special teams, he's cheap and adyg

(34:46):
Davis Gaither. I'm gonna give a C plus B minus
assuming that he's going to be a starter and that
he will be reasonably productive.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Yeah, and it's it'll be interesting to see how he
fits in, because you know he's gonna be you would
assume he'll and I know Mac did by the end
of the year, but like he'll he'll go to the
Mac role. Mack will go to the kaizer role, which
is what Mac had ended up playing by the end
of last year, right what Kaizer was hurt and and

(35:22):
a keen Davis Gaither will be kind of that that
weeks ide, you know, roving run and chase linebackers. So
it'll be interesting to see how he's used. We do
know this for certain, Gaither, Davis Gaither and Wilson are
going to have a much easier time with Dalvin Tomlinson

(35:44):
in front of him. So I don't I don't. I
don't think people realize how important that is too, right,
Like guys, guys are able to play it off faster
and and a little more free rate when you're talking
about just running and chasing, you know, having having those
guys in front of them. So it'll be interesting to

(36:06):
see how all that works. But you know it'll be
We'll see where where this ends up. I mean, you
had a decent ish year last year. If I if
I go back and look, and I think I saw it,
and I'm gonna double check myself right now, but I
think Devin Bush Junior, who was the linebacker for the

(36:28):
the Brown so obviously playing behind Tomlinson, I think Devin
Bush was like had the highest run stop rate in
the NFL. And and you know, again Is that because
Devin Bush, who was a failed first round pick for

(36:49):
the Steelers all, you know, all of a sudden got
better or was it because yeah, so Bush hosted an
eighty six point four run defense grade and he twelve
best run defensive linebacker in the NFL last year. That's

(37:09):
well and and don't get me wrong, Devin Bush hell
of a player. Uh did a nice job. It's that
is a Dalvin Tomlinson statistic, and so that's good. My
point being on that is Mac Wilson. We already saw
the you know how how well he played last year.

(37:31):
Now you get a Keeam Davis Gaither who you know,
people will tell you like his he wasn't great against
the run. I guess what, it's a lot easier to
do when you have Dalvin Thomlinson in front of you.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
It just is that's true. I forgot, like I've been saying,
four guys, there was a there was a fifth contract
edition that was obvious that that I completely overlock storieson.
But it was not on defense. The other one Jakobe
Prissett back a quarterback two years twelve and a half million, wow,
because you know they really invested in the backup spot

(38:07):
this year and we were staying off the air. You
know what I think this They tried to with Desmond
Ridder last year, but they were trying to get someone
reasonably inexpensive, and that's why they traded for Ridder rather
than spending the ten million dollars that it would cost
to get a backup quarterback. And in fairness, Jaquavi Rissette
has been on the Cardinals radar for each of the

(38:29):
last two years, but he was still looking for starting opportunities.
Is after twenty twenty two, he wanted to start, and
so he goes to Washington and then he goes to
New England as well. But you know, and now he
I think he's reached the point in this courage, like, oh,

(38:49):
I'm a backup and but they invested money in the
backup position, and I think that what they This says
a lot about what the Cardinals are expecting this season
to be. Last year, they expected to be better, but
they didn't expect to be really really good because they

(39:12):
knew they had to know. Kyler gets hurt and you're
playing with Clayton tune. Yeah, this year they're not. And
this is what it also tells me what to think
about Tune. They don't think that Tune is the guy, right,
He's not the guy that you can count on, And
so they're investing more money in that backup spot that
if someone is needed when Kyler Murray misses a game

(39:34):
or two, you've got a guy who's reliable. Colton McCoy
ish in that sense where you who's done it a lot.
He's got over fifty starts for his career. He don't
have a very good record, what nineteen and thirty four
and his fifty three career starts, but he can get
you through a game or a week or two and
you don't feel like the season's going to fall apart.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Right, And that's the goal of the backup quarterback, And
you know it's it's the best investment that you never
want to have to see us, right, Like you're very
hopeful that this group never we just never see him play.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
And I think this is the most they've ever spent
on a backup quarterback ever, the Cardinals literally ever. Yeah right,
all right, coming on next on the Risi of Secret podcast,
Best Ever Cards talking the boat that's now come back
to talk about the at the comebacks, the re signings,
the players that are on their way back that's coming next.

(40:36):
Rise Up. Read back on the Rise of Sacred podcast
Best Are Cardinals Talk on the web. We can now
look at the players that they started to bring back.
They re signed to several players we've referred to some
of them. I think none more important, but I think
there were two most important bringbacks, and they're both offensive linemen.

(40:59):
They re signed Evan Brown or a Greek to terms.
I don't think he's officially signed his contract yet, but
they they're re signing Evan Brown, who had a fine
season at left guard, two years eleven point something million.
And then they brought back Kelvin Beacham on a one
year deal worth between three and a half and four
and a half million. And we knew that they needed

(41:23):
to do something about the backup tackle position because were
you going to go in the next season with Christian Jones.
That's risky business, even if he's gonna be good. And
the fact that you've got Jonah Williams coming off knee injury,
and then you have two starting jobs at guard really
up for grabs where they're empty, and you bring back
Brown and you know, as great as Will Freese is

(41:46):
I absolutely love the two year re signing of Evan Brown,
much like I loved when we both loved when they
brought back Will Hernandez two years go on a similar
type deal, you're getting low, Like, let's be honest, five

(42:06):
six million a year for a quality guard is basement
bargain type deal. And like to be honest, like, based
on what we saw from Evan Brown last year, how
much of an upgrade is an expensive guard over the

(42:26):
play that they got from Brown last year?

Speaker 3 (42:29):
I mean that's the question, right, Like how much of
an upgrade will would Will Freeze have been. I don't
think enough to.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Not that Freeze would have replaced Brown, But because if
you're gonna have to get two guards anyway, but if
you don't bring down back Brown because you're signing Will Freeze,
like how much better is he going to be? And
Brown big? He's really strong, he played really well to
guard and can be a starting level center as well,

(42:59):
so he gives position versatility should anything happen to yield
to forro Hoold even that gotcha on Gaines and stuff
like that, you have someone who's been a but then
a multi year starter at now three different positions on
the offensive line.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Yeah, and you know, it's fun to watch him and
see how this team goes about things. The other question is,
you know, how many how many changes do you want
to make every year? And now I don't mean to

(43:35):
get into the discussion of offensive line and things of that.
I don't want to go too deep into this rabbit hole.
But we all know or understand that the Houston Texans
offensive line was pretty terrible last year, right, and they decided,

(44:01):
and we'll see if this was the right move or not,
but they decided to unload their best offensive lineman without question.
For I mean, what would you would you say that
was a good haul? A fair haul for Laramie Tunsel.
I mean, he's older, so it's not it's not like

(44:22):
he's a spring chicken. He'll be thirty one this year,
you know, so, But I mean a Pro Bowl, a
five time Pro Bowl left tackle. And and they did
it under the guys of continuity. They did it under
the guys of not everybody was bought into what was
being done. So that's a long winded way of saying,

(44:46):
I don't think you'd replace guys just to replace guys, right,
like you don't you don't just bring guys in and
spend money, because the offensive line is different on at
than any other positional group. And so for them to
do that, I just that is saying to me that

(45:08):
they didn't want or weren't necessarily looking to replace too
many guys. They didn't want to do too much if
they could, if they could get what they thought was
a difference maker and will freeze. And again he might
have been the right guard, right, We don't.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Know, probably because they had aren't. Honestly, they had already right,
they'd already got back Evan Brown, so so that that
would have been for right guard, and that what he
played in Indianapolis anyway.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah, I think he played a little bit of everything,
but yeah, I think that was mostly where his snaps occurred,
because I know he played tackle as well there. But yeah,
I mean so you look at it and you go, Okay,
this is you know, this is a guy that they value,
and they value his familiarity with Paris Johnson and Yell

(45:57):
the Froholt, who are the anchors of that line. And
so that's my whole situation with it is, you know,
I don't think they wanted to go wild and overhauling
the offensive line to the extent where they're like completely
completely over it or whatever, you know, or or changing

(46:19):
things just to change things. You know, you look at
did the offensive line have some struggles? It did, but
a lot of those were just due to injury, right,
and all of a sudden, that continuity, that that comfortableness
with one another was gone, right, because at some point
you had Evan Brown, will Hernandez obviously the John of

(46:39):
Williams Covin Beacham situation, and PJJ all out Like outside
of Yelda, it was pretty much guys rotating at that
especially at the end of the year, where the offensive
line started to really struggle.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yes, and then the receiver position, they they're rolling it back,
they're rolling it back. So after an eight catch season,
Zay Jones doubles, he won, He doubled his salary. Last year,
he signed with the Cardinals a one year, two and
a quarter million dollars. Now after it was disappointing, It

(47:16):
was a diff disappointing season. I don't think it was
anything like what the Cardinals wanted or what he wanted,
because you know, he works out all off season. They
really like him, and then he gets suspended for five
games and then he's kind of lost in the rotation
and he picks up he gets more playing time late
in the year. Eight Cats for eighty four yards, I mean,
and to do that and come back for a four

(47:36):
and a half million dollars one year deal. I do
like the fit, especially since he still is now outside
of Marvin Harrison, he's still the guy that's had the
most accomplished career because he did have a couple of
years ago. Did they have that eight hundred and twenty
yard of season with Jacksonville? So it's in there, and

(48:00):
they tendered Greg Dortsch on that on that right of
first refusal, which will cost them three point three million
essentially to bring him back. Although I will say this,
that isn't a guaranteed number, so there's no guarantee that
he will make the roster. It just they can and
might still do something at receiver in this offseason. But

(48:22):
you know, I liked the Zay Jones. That's a quiet move.
I don't think that's enough. And Greg Dortsch I was
kind of indifferent to. But he's got familiarity, he's he's
close with Kyler, but I think we know that he's
more of a playmaker than a receiver at this point,
but at least at the very minimum, you've maintained your

(48:43):
punt returner.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
Right, and you know, I think they didn't want to
do again do too much. I think they just want
to see the growth over year and continue that.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
And then on the defensive side of the ball, they
brought back LJ. Collier for another one year deal. I
believe I saw that the deal was about four million dollars.
I can't remember off the top of my head, but
I believe it's a four four and a half million
dollar deal, which is a pretty good deal coming off
of basically two minimum contracts that he had the last

(49:19):
two seasons. He's coming off his best NFL season three
and a half sacks, plays in every game, which is
the first time since he didn't miss a game since
twenty twenty. That's been the knock on the former first
rounder is that he just hasn't been able to stay healthy.
And I think he's really found a place playing from
that interior. As opposed to when he came into the league,

(49:41):
people expected him to be kind of a big four
or three edge, you know, coming in at two hundred
and ninety pounds. He's better rushing from the interior. He
was disruptive, he wasn't consistent, but he had a really
good stretch in the middle part of the season where
he where he was quite disruptive, and I think that

(50:03):
was really good to see. He becomes a good rotational
guy that is a really solid ad.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Yeah, and you know, when you look at the depth,
that's what we've been talking about, right, Like they by
the end of the season, Let's be honest, they had
street free agents playing. But you know when you're talking
about guys that had to start last year and Dante
Stills and l J. Collier now being the lead backups

(50:29):
and they're still going to play probably the same amount
of snaps too, right, Like, they're probably still going to
get that thirty to but but now they're doing it
as like in Callier to spend about fifty four percent
last year, so you know his role will probably be

(50:51):
slightly reduced. But I mean, if that leads to the
same type of production where you're talking about a guy
with you know, three to four sacks, you know, four
to five titles for Loston and six to eight quarterback hits,
you're like, sign me up, Like if that's your if
that's if he produces the same way. But now he's
the rotational guy as opposed to isn't that what we've

(51:14):
been kind of clamoring for the whole time.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Yes, that's one hundred percent now and we can look
at let's look at how this defensive line room has
emerged over the last three off seasons and it's taken
time you and I talked about on this show two
years ago. In twenty twenty three, when they were building
that defensive line like you had Lecky FO two, they

(51:39):
signed Carlos Watkins. You brought an LJ. Collier who had
been largely a bust and the only one with any
consistent production his entire career was Carlos Watkins and the
key was there. He was their most talented one in
the room by far.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Jess. Just think about this real quick in twenty three
as you're as you're stating the end of the twenty
three season, their starters where Jonathan ledbetter Roy Lopez, which,
by the way, we need to say congrats Roy. Awesome.
So cool to see you get a big contract for
the first time in your career, like we you know,
sad to see him go, but I genuinely could not

(52:22):
be happier for the guy. Right, But Roy Lopez and
Kevin Strong, those those were their starters. Just and again
I'm not I don't mean to sound.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Really rude, but like last year Strong like they're out
of the league, Like that's that's who were the starters
in December football games.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
Right, And then last year you look at it and
you go, okay, you know, again, we liked, we liked
these guys. They they work their butts off, their great teammates.
Like it's never it's never personal when we talk about this,
But the reality is when you're looking at stuff and
you see that you have you have guys like uh,

(53:11):
you know, Dante Stills who we like, you know, but
he's clearly a rotational guy like this is that's a
rotational lignement. That's not a guy that you want as
your starter. That that's what we've been talking about. And
it's finally finally come to fruition and you're just like, oh, okay,
finally like they're they're getting it and and it's hard

(53:33):
because this this roster was so torn down and they
wanted to do it the right way instead of.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Well we're gonna have to pause for a little bit.
The power went out at Seth's house. Uh so, yeah,
going on to that point, So you go from what
it was last year with guys who were basically a nothing.
They were you know, you started off better last year
with with Justin Jones and Belall Nichols and they got hurt.
She had a Darius Robinson, LG. Collier play. Consistence is

(54:03):
consistently and then you know you're playing with Ben Stilley,
you're playing with Nate Kwon, Jones and Dante Stills who
had who had decent seasons, Roy Lopez. But now they've
they've bolstered that and and so yes, that's of one
hundred percent what we are that they've built it up.

(54:24):
They they've improved it, which is what we're gonna go with.
And well I'm gonna go on without Seth for a
little bit. Coming up next to other rise of serial
podcast Mistar of Cardinals talk on the Web. Let's discuss
the guys who have left. That's kinda next one rise up.
He read, We're back on the rise of the serie

(54:46):
of podcast Bystar Cardinals. Talk of it against just me
for right now is as Seth's power went out. But
let's discuss the players who have left. So far, it
has been the only as of when I'm recording this,
there have only been three Cardinals that have landed deals elsewhere,
and that was all three. Our defensive lineman Kiris Tonga

(55:07):
signed with the Patriots, Roy Lopez with the Lions, and
then just coming in this afternoon as well was nik
One Jones who signs with the Charters. And with that
we go on and there's still players that appear to
be on their way out. These are guys that we
don't expect the Cardinals to bring back. Now, Will Hernandez

(55:29):
and Dennis Gardak, those guys are coming off knee injuries.
They could come back, they won't be added till later.
Eisier White, Chris Barnes or all guys are going to
get probably picked up somewhere. Outside of that, It's going
to be interesting to see how things go because they didn't.
Jesse Leketta could come back, but he was non tendered.

(55:52):
So was safety Andre Sachuray. But he's a guy that
probably won't get picked up until training camp somewhere. He
was brought back after he was cut. They had brought
back the practice squad and things like that, and you know,
those of the guys are lapped. The guys that remain unsigned.

(56:13):
It's gonna like Will her nanasy like to bring back
if he's healthy. But I don't see Tristan Cologne returning.
I think they're gonna lean on Isaiah Adams to at
least be their depth guy. And the fact that they've
got John Gaines who can play center. You've got Evan
Brown who can play centered, and honestly, you've got a

(56:33):
few guys the young guys since here Haynesworth who can
play center, Nick Leverett who play center, and a few
guys who they McLendon, Curtis, Matt Jones, guys. I think
that that are gonna be interesting additions who could end
up being depth on the roster. But I don't think
they're done. I don't think they're done with that. And
looking at the depth chart. Now, looking at the depth chart,

(56:56):
the car the quarterback room is set. We already felt
that the running back room was set. At receiver, they
could still add a receiver or two, whether that's drafted,
whether that's a veteran. There's some names out there you
go with like a Keenan Allen Cooper Cup would be
a fantastic gad as well. You feel that there's still

(57:17):
work to be done at receiver tight end. We didn't
feel that there was an issue at all. They could
add a guard, whether it's a springe starter like a
guy who has starting experience who could be a backup
to where if he ends up starting good, if it's
Isaiah Adams starting good, or if they draft a guy
who could play guard, that's good as well. I think

(57:39):
the defensive line is basically set. You might you could
see them adding adding a low end, minimum veteran type guy,
kind of like what they did with Kiris Tonga last year.
That sort of quality of signing on the defensive line
at the edge, I think they're all. I failed to

(58:02):
mention the re signing of Baron Browning, a deal that
I am also very high on, especially at the price
there was. It was a deal that we always felt
they were gonna do. Baron Browning, who has some upside
he gets basically the Zavon Collins deal two years fifteen million.
Zavon guy, I think two years fourteen million, and that

(58:25):
can go up to eighteen I believe, or up to
seventeen based on sack incentives, that outside linebacker room looks
significantly better than what it did at the start of
the season. And not to disrespect Dennis Gardick, Dennis Gardick
should have been a third or fourth or a fifth
guy playing mostly on special teams. But they're four right now.

(58:48):
They're four right now. Is Zavon Collins, Josh Sweat, b
jo Jalauri cross fingers that he's coming back from that
ACL and Baron Browning. Now you would love to see
in terms of production, if Sweat gets eight to ten sacks,
if Zavin could hit his five again, if Baron Browning

(59:09):
can get five to seven, and if o Jaalari can
be a six to eight sack guy in his first
full season, there you'd have a wildly productive outside linebacker room.
And then on top of that, you get Exavier Thomas back,
the fifth round rookie last year who showed a little
bit of promise, but we'll have to wait and see.
See he's a guy you could easily replace. I think

(59:30):
they're done it inside linebacker as well. They've got depth guys,
they've got to win PAPO. And then they added the
two veterans in a king Davis Gathers and Michael Walker.
It'll be interesting to see, as Seth was talking about,
whether they're going to plan on Davis Gathers playing the
mic or if he's going to play the role that
Mac did, Mac Wilson, who could play the mic that's

(59:52):
what he started in the league as, or if he'll
play that that rotation, the guy that could play multiple
spots where he can rush the edge, things like that.
It'd be interesting to see how they go with that.
Cornerback's an interesting thing. I just ran across the tweet
that said that they're hosting a Sante Samuel. It's a
position where Seth and I have felt that they don't
have to do anything at but they it would never

(01:00:14):
hurt to add someone because you know, you've got Sean
Murphy Bunting, he's gonna be here. You've got Garrett Williams,
he's great, and you've got Max Melton and Star Thomas
where you feel good about one of those and Max
should be able to should push into a starting role
or a much more significant role than he had last year.
If you have someone who can replace Star Thomas be

(01:00:37):
better than him. Where you're pushing Max Melton for playing time,
fantastic or if it pushes Thomas into the key Trell
Clark mold where he's playing more special teams also nothing
wrong with that, but it would be an interesting addition
to see them add someone at cornerback like a Sante
Samuel or Jay ran Alexand this say, it depends on
what the money will be. Obviously they're already said it

(01:00:59):
safety their say on at on the specialists, and so
that's that's totally all right in terms of what can
we expect then and before the draft, I think keep
your eye out for a receiver, maybe a cornerback, definitely
a guard. That's what you're gonna expect. And then you know,

(01:01:23):
as much as as people complained about this, you really
have kind of if they add a guard, if they
add a receiver, or even if they don't add a receiver,
they really kind of because you know, if they do
believe in Zay Jones, a three receiver rotation Marvin Harrison Junior,

(01:01:46):
Michael Wilson and Zay Jones, that's not terrible. And then
you've got Greg Dortch and Isaiah Weaver and Tejon Palm
the guys to battle for that fourth, fifth, and sixth spot,
when you already know that you're tied end Trey McBride's
probably gonna be your number one, so you're gonna have
two number one receivers in McBride and Harrison. What you

(01:02:06):
kind of want to see is two guys or a
yo like having both of those guys hit a thousand yards,
have someone else hit at least eight hundred, or have
two guys over like in between the six to eight
hundred range, and then you've got a really really productive

(01:02:26):
passing game. So but the way things are set up
now with what they've done in free agency out of
guard maybe a receiver, maybe a corner that they've really
kind of what they need to so you're not when
it comes to the draft, they're not pegged at any
one position. Like in round one, you could see them

(01:02:47):
go with an offensive line, but you can see with
Goma defensive line. You could see him going with a receiver.
You could see going to them with an edge guy.
You could see them going with an off the ball
back or probably round two, you don't like, it's hard
to telegraph what they're going to do now, and that's
exactly what you want to do. With free agency, is
you want to have you want to I think it

(01:03:10):
was many Austin for that said, you want to have
a roster that you could field a team, And I
think right now, as things stand, you could field a
starting lineup and feel okay, not necessarily like as much
cap space as they have, and they're they're burning through
quite quite a chunk of it, not at the rate
that I know that some people want. You have to

(01:03:31):
understand that what they saw from this team last year
is that they're close. They don't need an overhaul. So
they were a team that were that were they were
in twenty twenty three. They were a competitive bad last year.
They were a disappointing mediocre, but they won the games
larger than they should have won, and they lost games

(01:03:53):
to teams that were better than them, and they had
a chance to as well when the division they had
the division lead. And so they take a look at
this roster, they're like, as is, we could win it.
We felt we just fell short. And so they've made
some additions. They've upgraded the defensive line, they upgraded the

(01:04:13):
pass rush, and they feel they're probably even at inside linebacker.
And if you look at how the defense is the
defense made strides. They are an improved defense. And while
the offense seems stagnant, if the offense is what it
was last year and the defense is better, that's a

(01:04:34):
team that can make the playoffs. And you can feel
that roster and compete immediately. And they haven't gotten the
draft yet. And so that's what's coming up next. Over
you know, that will wrap up this edition the Rise
of Secret podcast of bestar Cardinals talking about an apologies
from Seth who the power went off in his neighborhood
and you know, when you don't have power, it's hard

(01:04:55):
to be connected the internet, et cetera, et cetera. So
we will Seth and I will be back next week.
We'll probably do a pair of shows as we as
we will look at some other roster moves that happened
between now and then, in addition to starting to prep
for what we're looking for at the NFL Draft. On
behalf of the Rise Up Secret Podcast, the Best Out
of Cardinals Talk of the Web, Seth Cox was here.

(01:05:17):
I'm Jess Rue. Thanks for listening. As always, we'll be
back again soon.

Speaker 5 (01:05:21):
Thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up Sea Red Podcast. Listen to previous episodes and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitch your Radio, Audio Boom,
or many other podcast platforms so shows are delivered directly
to your mobile device. Please give the show a five
star rating and always support the sponsors who support the show.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
We'll be back.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
Soon for the best hour of cardinals talk on the web,
Rise up Red cea b red Sea Red, and of
course Rise up Sea Red.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Lives It Lives, It.

Speaker 5 (01:06:14):
Lives, It

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Lives It