October 1, 2025 • 61 mins
The Cardinals had struggles offensively in Week 4 and lost 23-20 to the Seahawks on Thursday night on a last-second field goal. Jess and Seth talk about it.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Zz No.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Lors on a Cardinals fans, and welcome to the latest
edition of the Rise Up Scared podcast as star Cardinals
Talk on the Web. I'm your host Jess Root from
cardswire dot com, the USA today NFL wiresite that covers
Arizona Cardinals after a short layoff because the Cardinals have
not played since Thursday. In his episode seven hundred and
four with my co host Seth Cox from Revenge of
the Birds dot com, espianations, Arizona Cardinals side is, we've
(00:55):
we've had a few days to mull over what we
saw on Thursday nights. A disappointing twenty three to twenty
loss on a second week in a row, last second
field goal by a division opponent. What did you like?
What did you take away from that game?
Speaker 4 (01:16):
First and foremost, I think the first thing you look
at is that you know the division within itself is
relatively close and competitive, and so that's you know, that's important.
The problem became something that we've talked about, is that
they just can't be conservative, Like you can't expect to
(01:41):
be good teams like the Seahawks, like the forty nine ers,
those teams playing the way you did against teams like
New Orleans and Carolina, because when you do that, you're
just setting yourself up for failure. And so that's kind
of what I took away from it is that there's
not like a goal like there had been previously between
(02:03):
the Cardinals and their rivals, but there is maybe a
more concerning golf between the coaches.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's an interesting thing as we note,
because yeah, the division has three teams. The forty nine ers,
after losing on Sunday to the Jaguars, forty Nineers continue
to have injury concerns, as Rock Pridy might be missing
another game this week. The Rams look good, but are beatable,
(02:36):
Like if you look at what they what they did
against the Coltal, you know, they played a very tough
Colts team. The Seahawks look good, They've got three three
and one teams, and the Cardinals now in last place
at two and two and unfortunately behind the eight ball
in terms of the division, because they are zero in
two in their first two divisional games with four left
(02:56):
later on in the season. And I guess kind of
the narrative it was a twenty three to twenty I
the story was off obviously, was about the offense. That
was the talking point of the entire broadcast. It's been
the talking points since then. It was Kyler Murray, it
(03:19):
was Drew Petsing, it was Marvin Harrison. Before we dive
into to many of the things. What what did we
see that was good from the offense? Unfortunately it was
the fourth consecutive week they have failed to reach three
hundred yards overall. They didn't they they fell down. They
(03:45):
fell behind twenty to six, so they had only had
for the first three quarters two field goals. Was there
anything positive that you took away from what they did,
whether to the beginning or totality of the performance.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
I think you look at the ending of the game
in the last you know, several drives, and you look
at it and you go, why is this not how
they play early? Why is this not how aggressive they
are early in the game. And I saw some comments
out there that were like, oh, well, you know, Seadam
was playing soft ball.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
They weren't.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I mean we saw that they were still bringing the heat,
they were still bringing pressure, they were still trying to
stay disruptive against the Cardinals. The Cardinals just you know,
relied more on on their quarterback to make big plays
and you know, their their offense to make plays.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
That that could work out.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
And you know, it's that old chestnut that you and
I talk about all the time of it just seems
like there's no complimentary football with this group. The defense
does a fairly nice job. I mean, we talked a
little bit about it in our group chat. During the game,
(05:06):
they especially in the first half, it was very feast
or famine, right, Like, you saw some different things from
the defense, whereas the offense was just all putrid. In
the first half, right, you had the the interception that
ended up they caused a fumble and recovered it, and
(05:27):
then but then you had the other interception when it
seemed like they were finally getting things going right, like
it's like, oh, here we go, here we go. But
in the second half, I mean, you look at it,
just four possessions, you know, they they punted their first possession,
then they they got a field goal, and then it
(05:51):
was just kind of sturgical things that we've been wanting
to see that we saw. So where is that urgency
early in the game, especially against good teams, especially coming
off a game where we saw the same thing. I think,
I mean, we're going to get to that, but I
think that's the biggest concern, right is, like we saw
(06:14):
that when they want to spread it out and throw
the ball around, they're not bad at it. The problem
became like, why are they not willing to do that consistently,
especially early in the game. Why are they so hell
bent on establishing the run?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Like?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
That's that's what's so interesting, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I think in part it was trying to take advantage
of their strengths, which was especially early on, like before
last season and early last season. I mean, when your
best two players on offense are James Connor and Tree McBride,
it makes sense to kind of build an offense like that.
(06:59):
And we've wondered about Drew Petsing's wide receiver use, but
I can understand why you would want to do that,
why you would want to kind of establish run because
you know, Kyler does better when there is a balance
like his performances are much more dominant. When there is
(07:19):
a balanced performance, you've got it running back in James Connor.
It allows you to play heavy with twelve personnel thirteen
personnel because of the type of tight end that Trey
McBride is. But now with Connor out for the rest
of the year, things have to change a little bit.
(07:41):
And I guess the first thing that we saw was
almost completely abandoning twelve and thirteen personnel, which made from
one week to the next they became they became a
much more traditional looking offense. They ran. I think I
saw the numbers were out of fifty four of sixty
(08:02):
seven plays or snaps that there were, fifty four of
them were with three receivers on the field, which is
something we have not seen much of. But when you
take James Connor out of the equation, it might make
more sense to open things up, especially with the type
(08:23):
of runner stylistically that Tray Benson is compared to Connor.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Right, Benson's almost that big play runner. Right, he's not.
He's not the grinder, he's not the grinded out. He's
not the guy that's gonna go you know, to to to.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Eight eight nine, twelve fourteen.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
You know, like what we've seen from Connor, what what
he's gonna do is he's gonna hit some He's gonna
pop some big runs early, right, He'll go to to
thirty one, one, twenty five, Like that's his style. Whereas
whereas Connor's like he's averaging, you know, two point eight,
two point eight yards per carry for two and a
(09:03):
half quarters and then and then that third and fourth quarter,
It's like, how does he have one hundred and twenty
yards rushing and average number five yards of car?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, and I will say this, the running, the running attack,
the rush attack was more efficient. It wasn't productive. They
only ended up with with eighty nine eighty nine rushing
yards the entire game, but it was a much more
efficient rushing attack. It wasn't great and I and I
(09:34):
wondered if I think part of it was the philosophical change,
the kind of the scheme change or the formation change.
But also you're putting you're putting Benson into a role
that he probably is more accustomed to in his football
life than that is being the guy he's the number one,
and then you put him Marty Marcado back into that
(09:58):
that third down rule where he is quite where he's
quite productive, he's quite efficient. The rushing numbers, it wasn't.
So they had the one twenty nine yard run from
from Murray and after the after the twenty nine yard run,
So you take you take the sixty carries, I mean
(10:20):
the sixty yards that they had outside of that play,
you ended up with sixty yards on sixty on sixteen carries,
which still wasn't great. It was it was three point
eight yards, but that's better than it was the previous
several games were if you took away the explosive runs
(10:44):
like the one or two big runs, they were averaging
under three a carry. And so I think that one
thing that we're going to see and I hope to
continue to see it, is that the run game, while
it was not run heavy by any means, the running
game was far a little bit more efficient. And I
(11:05):
think that was in part because Benson, honestly, because you know,
Benson was in a role that probably suits him more.
They gave him the third down role with with that
was de Mercado's role, because they wanted to increase his touches,
his impact on the offense. But they did that without
(11:29):
reducing James connors as and as a result, Benson, who
in the amount of times I paid attention, has done
a He has done a fine job in past protection,
but it's a role that is different than what he's done.
And I'll say this again, I don't recall seeing it
in the I don't recall seeing it in practice or
the preseason either. So this is I think this is
(11:50):
something that is fairly fairly new in terms of number
of reps for him, and so I think that got
a little extra settled down. I think we have to
talk about the past game. I mean, we look at
Kyler Murray's two interceptions and we're once again we're looking
at a situation whereas we're in a situation where if
Kyler has to the Cardinals really are only able to
(12:14):
succeed if he's near perfect, and you know, if he
turns the ball over it all, whether it's his fault
or not, the Cardinals don't end up with much of
a chance. He I think he did overall a pretty
good job in the passing game, But the entire broadcast
was almost dedicated to the performance of Marvin Harrison Junior,
and how that talking point continues to be what carries
(12:39):
what It's been the biggest storyline this year for the Cardinals.
It's what's wrong with Marvin Harrison? And do you think
that it is as much a mental thing as anything else,
that he's putting pressure on himself to produce and as
a result, isn't playing full speed football.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Yeah, I think that's some of it.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
I think the other part of it is that you've
got a guy that's used to success and he's having
adversity for the first time and now it's you know,
difficult almost.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's almost like he had a little bit of the yips.
If you look at some of the some of the drops,
you're like, why are you dropping those? And and it's
made worse because he's not getting lots of other easy
opportunities to kind of get in rhythm like many other
receivers do. Like if we watched the Monday night game
and you saw I know he's not their number one,
(13:34):
but you saw bo Nick's you know, at line of
really quick line of scrimmage throw to to Troy Franklin
and things like that, Like they don't do that for Mark.
They don't design anything to get him touches early and
sort of in a rhythm to feel. You know, you
get a couple of catches, you pick up a first
down to get the juices going, and the next thing,
(13:56):
you know, like the only throws that he gets towards
him are the the tougher throws. And I think they
would do it. They they are not doing themselves any
favors in terms of how Harrison produces by not doing
that well.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
And some of it just comes down to We've talked
about it quite a bit there all of a sudden,
very conservative early in games, right, and so it's it's, oh,
it's it's going to be a play action or it's
going to be you know, if it's third and long,
they're going to throw the ball, and you know, it
(14:34):
becomes really obvious when they're going to throw the ball.
It almost seems like, right, like there's rarely any variety
or or things like that in terms of what they're
trying to do. And you know, you look at little things, right,
you look at things like average average depth of target
(15:01):
on third and less than three. They're they're rarely throwing
the ball beyond the sticks. It's usually a swing pass
something of that nature.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
And that goes.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Almost at every level until you get to fourth down.
And it's a weird thing because on fourth down they
throw beyond the sticks. But and there's only been two plays,
so it's not like we have a huge sample size.
But on these other plays, it's always always always short
(15:42):
of the stick.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
And you wonder why.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
There's a lot of interesting things. First downs, you know,
he's only attempted forty passes this year. Second and ten pluses,
he's he's attempted sixteen passes this year, and so that's
a crazy stat to me, right, And so you look
(16:10):
at that and it's like, but here, just think about
this third and ten passes. He's only attempted thirteen this year,
and almost all of them are are attempted short of
the stick. So third and ten plus their average depth
of targets six and a half yards, which means obviously
there are probably three or four in that in that
(16:34):
thirteen that are a little beyond, but most of them
are you know, short checkdowns, things of that nature. And
it's and it's because when you're in obvious passing situations,
nobody respects you because you don't have a variety of things.
It's it's okay, it's going to tray if not look
(16:54):
at Marv. If Marv isn't running hard because he's not
the first option, it's okay, it's gonna be a checkdown
to try Benson or a Mario de Mercato or James Kong, Right, Like,
that's kind of how it's been, And so the question becomes,
how do you how do you change those things for
this franchise or this team? Just like, to me, it's
(17:18):
wild that on his throes when they need between four
and six yards, his average depth of targets longer than
when it's ten plus yards. And I know it's it's
an obvious situation, but it just kind of tells the
story of what's wrong with his offense is it's it's
lived to fight another day, which isn't a bad thing,
(17:39):
but when you're going against good teams, you have to
you have to have a little pressure in what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
That said, Marv came alive late and you could tell
it was a huge weight off his shoulder when he
caught the touchdown pass. And you know, I think that
means that we can expect to see a little bit
more consistency. But like there was less variety in formations
(18:08):
they had six players who caught passes as opposed to
eight or nine the previous games. They they brought an
Xavier Weaver for a player to They had no Jay
Jones and so it was more Greg Dertsch in the
passing game. And we've seen how that maybe affects things
a little bit. But you know the talk of this,
(18:31):
do you think, like everyone's talking, Drew passing needs to go,
Drew pets needs to go, Like whether or not you
do that, here's the thing. Firing the offensive coordinator at
this point of the year, when you have a team
and a and a scheme that is based on that,
what's going to change? Like what is Firing Petsing doing?
(18:51):
And I think one of the I think one of
the more positive things that we have seen was that
there was a personnel's change last week, that there were adjustments.
And ultimately, I don't think this is necessarily a Petscene
thing as so much it is as a cannon thing
(19:15):
in terms of philosophy, like people want to bring in
Kurt Warner, people like the Gannon brought Petsing in for
a reason. Petsing's offensive scheme is put together his his
play calling decisions, they're all under the blanket of what
Caanon wants to see. Now, have we should seen Gannon
be willing to change things up a little bit? Yes,
(19:38):
But ultimately, as we talked about on this show before,
is Gannon is showing that he really is like a
lot of defensive minded head coaches. It is hey, he
talks about explosive plays. He talks about this in that
but ultimately it's a the ball is the like it
is control the ball.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
And yeah, and and you know it's interesting because you
go to the opposite side of that, right, and it's
it's Mike McDaniel or Mike McDonald uh from from last game, right,
And and the Seahawks are aggressive, but they're aggressive within reason.
(20:25):
Like think think about this, Jess. They're they're passing offense.
It wasn't like it was astoundingly better than the Cardinals
in that game. It was just timed better.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, And I think I think part of that is
the person out of the quarterback is is kind of
like Tyler really tried. I believe he tries to because
we saw him under Cliff Kingsbury like he wants big plays.
I think he really is trying to play within the
(21:03):
system that he's given, Like he buys into what they're doing,
and so if they want him to be careful with
the football, he's going to be careful with the football
unless it's a dire situation. Now, I get a couple
of those things, like both the throws got picked off
and you can't really like one there was a miscommunication
between him and Harris and the other one Carrison just
(21:24):
basically gave it to Urnas Jones after bobbling it. But
Sam Darnald also loves to rip the football like he
just he loves and he has to be rained in.
So what you have with Donald and Clinton with versus
Mike McDonald Clinton Kubiak, is that you have a quarterback
(21:44):
who's even more aggressive in personality and has to be
rained in. While Kyler is one hundred percent willing, at
least under this coaching staff to follow what his coaches
are asking him to do, as opposed to in Cliff Kingsburg,
like he wanted to make more happen than what was.
(22:05):
And I think that was part of the problem in
twenty twenty two is that some of the criticism that
you took is that he wanted like he was changing
a lot because he wanted to do more. And when
Colt McCoy took over, it's like, okay, get rid of
the ball, get rid of the ball. He was just
following exactly what the game plan was, and Kyler was
trying to make things happen well.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
And you look at it right, like, and I get
that the Seahawks had a little bit of a lead
in the game and so it lent itself to running
the ball slightly more. But you know, you look at
the game and the way the game went. You know,
Darnald only threw the ball twenty six times, Kyler forty
(22:48):
one times. The Seahawks had two guys with more rushing
attempts than the Cardinals leading guy in attempt And we
talked about Kenneth Walker, right, his game wasn't overly efficient.
Uh nineteen carries for eighty one yards. I mean, that's
(23:10):
barely over four yards per carry.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Twenty one of that came in one big play.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Right Cardinals. Yeah, the Cardinals. I mean, but you look
at the like, just look at the game script. It's
it's wild to look at this, and I get it,
you know, it was it was seventeen to three at
one point seventeen to six and blah blah blah. But
but look at the game script. You had thirty five
(23:38):
rushing attempts for one hundred and fifty five yards, and
it looks like, oh, one hundred and fifty five yards
giving up on the ground.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
That's a lot. And then like thirty five attempts.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
That's not good like that, that's that's not great by
any stretch of the imagination. You know, there were six
of thirteen on third down, they were zerover one on
fourth down, eighteen for twenty six for two hundred and
forty two. Like all of their numbers are very nondescript.
(24:09):
But they put up three hundred and eighty four yards
of total offense and they score twenty three points, and
that makes you go, Okay, they look like, you know,
a good to a very good offense. And it's like, no,
they're just methodical, Like they don't ever panic, they don't
ever look you know, frenzied. And and you know, even
(24:32):
in that game, we talked about it, like, the thing
that gets me about about the way people react to
the to the Cardinals is that there's no like nuance too, right,
So we talked about it the Cardinals get the ball,
five plays eighteen yards. The Seahawks get the ball, they
(24:54):
go six plays thirty eight yards and turn the ball
over on downs h obviously the interception, but then they
get the ball back, they go six plays for thirty
three yards in a field goals, so they have a
you know, three to zero lead then and then that's
that complimentary football we talk about a little bit, right,
The Seahawks immediately get the ball back, they go seventy
(25:17):
seven yards and seven plays and score a touchdown and
they're immediately leading the game. Now again, I'm not gonna
act like that the Cardinals defense can never give up points.
That's That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is,
isn't it kind of ironic that like the team that
then the next two series you see ten plays for
(25:41):
thirteen yards from the opponent and two punts, and we
don't discuss the fact that, you know, sandwich, those are
sandwiched in between two scoring drives that totaled one hundred
and sixty seven yards. Like That's the stuff that gets
(26:04):
me is that we just and don't get me wrong,
both sides need to play complimentary football better. But you
kick a field goal, you go up three nothing, and
immediately the Seahawks get the lead back and then it's
just kind of that jostling from there for the next
four series on each side of the ball, and then
(26:28):
the Seahawks right before the half get the ball back,
you know, take up two minutes and forty five seconds
and go ninety yards for a touchdown. And and it
was it was like, okay, like you had those those
two excellent, excellent defensive series in a row, right that,
(26:51):
Like I said, ten plays thirteen yards, that's phenomenal, But
that was in between a thirty eight yard drive that
you own got off the field on fourth down because
they ran an interesting play. I'm not gonna say it
was a good play, right, Like, it was an interesting play.
And then you have a seventy seventy yard drive in
a ninety yard drive.
Speaker 5 (27:11):
It's like it's like this.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Defense is really really playing feast or famine and and
it matches the energy of the offense unfortunately, right like
the car.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Let's actually let's let's dive into the defensive side of
the ball to go this point. Coming next on the Reses,
hear about the podcast Best R Cardinals talking about Let's
look at the defensive performance that Seth just started mentioning
it's coming next on Receups. You read We're back on
the ruses here podcast Best Our Cardinals talking about talking defense. Uh.
In the game, Seth already started talking about that is
that it was really feast, you're famine. And you know,
(27:49):
as good as the defense was, they also were their bugaboo.
That their bugaboo was the big play. They gave up
a thirty six yard pass If you look up, if
you look at like there was a thirty six yard
pass play, twenty nine yard pass play, thirty two yard
pass play. And if I pull up the game book,
(28:11):
we can see just how many plays that the Cardinals
gave up were because they kept them contained until they
didn't is kind of what it was. And and ultimately,
like that last drive, it was the very the game
winning drive that they had. Ultimately, it came down to
the fact that that they had they had that monster played.
(28:33):
So they the Seahawks had one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven plays of twenty yards or more. The Cardinals had
one and four.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
That was a Kyler Murray scramble.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It was a it was a Kyler scramble. Yeah, and
so they gave up seven plays that were twenty yards
or more. That's that's like just right there. And if
we add up now, if we do a little quick
math on the on those plays through six plus three
two plus twenty nine plus twenty four plus twenty two
(29:09):
plus twenty one plus twenty one hundred and eighty four
of the three hundred and eighty four total, so seven
plays accounted for nearly half of their yards.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Well, and that's the thing, you know we talked about
is you know, there's there's this idea of complimentary football,
and you know, again this the Cardinals offense is middling
at best, uh and anemic at worst, but they show
(29:49):
flashes of where you're like, Okay, why is this not
more consistently what the offense looks like? Right Like, why
do they not go that aggressive more consistently? The defense
is just kind of befuddling at times. You mentioned it, right, like,
so so you get that three to nothing lead and
(30:13):
then you come out and it's you know, it's it's
twelve yards. So Elijah Arroyo, it's not like, listen to
these plays. Just twelve nine twenty one eight incomplete eleven sixteen,
an eight and a nine yard play where the I
mean other than an incomplete pass.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Those were literally like.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
The it's almost like the sleep walk through drives. And
we talked about this in the previous game or sorry,
the Carolina game. The thing that gets me is that
they rarely ever get it when they have their bad drives.
(30:57):
They rarely ever get in third down situations. And that
that was the case in this one first down, first down,
second and one first down, second and two incomplete past
third and two first down touchdown, like they had one
third down. It was a third and two and the
Seahawks were already in phillal range. So the Seahawks were like,
(31:17):
we can do a lot of different things in that case.
And I know it's kind of easy to say, right like,
oh yeah, just get get them in in third and
long situations.
Speaker 5 (31:29):
It makes it easy.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
But but that is kind of a reality to it, right, Like,
if you're not forcing third downs, you can't get off
the field.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
And you look at that you have to win first
and second down to get to third down and win,
And doesn't that.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Well, and doesn't that just seem like a broader issue
of the team, right, Like you have, for instance, the Cardinals.
So the Cardinals get the ball back with five point
forty left in the.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Game, they get to they get it to third and two, and.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Michael Carter gets his first carry of the season, and
I think all of us were kind of like, huh, like,
we're we're fine with Michael Carter being back. We're you know,
we're excited. But third and two and you run him
on a on a simple duo out of shotgun, Like,
(32:35):
what are we doing? And then that touchdown drive. Okay,
so you know, we go back to the Seahawks touchdown
drive third and two was the only third down. Then
their second touchdown drive first down, burst down, first down,
first down, second down, burst down, second down, third down,
(32:57):
and one from the Arizona one for touchdown, like again,
one third down. The entire series, it's just such a
befuddling like lack of ability to to make plays. And
again you go back to it, right, Elijah Arroyo thirty
(33:20):
two yard reception, Sam Darnold twenty four yard scramble, Zack
Sharbone fifteen yard run, Zach Sharbona two yard run. So
that was the first like stop on the drive four
plays in before they got anything less than a first down. Again,
(33:41):
it's it's hard to criticize the defense that's playing hard
and that at times is playing at an insanely elite level.
But at the same time, it's like, what is happening? Like,
how how are you so inconsistent from drive to drive?
(34:01):
And I and people all the time are like, well,
you know, they're just on the field so much.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Okay, I don't I don't.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
Agree on the field because of their own fault, right,
I don't disagree with.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
That giving up first downs before third.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Down, right, and so.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I you know, but we're not talking about late in
the game when when they're gassed, right, Like we're talking
about a team that has been out for one series,
literally just one series. Your your offense scores after a
nearly five minute of game time drive and you immediately
(34:38):
come out and give up seventy yards for a touchdown
and and you get one third down, And so it's
just stuff like that, Like, you know, I'm not even
like overly upset the the the past to Jackson Smith
(34:59):
and Jake late in the game that set things up.
I would actually lay up the feet personally. More of
the DC, you know, their best player. You know that
they've got to get you know, about twenty five yards
total to be in a good spot.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Why are you.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
Soloing maybe the best receiver in the NFL currently against
the guy that's good in Max Melton.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
But you know, and as you as you noted during
the game in our group text, I think it was
you that that was they paid attention. Is that because
Melton that that move that yeah, JSN made, Max had
bit on a previous throw and so they knew they
(35:51):
could beat him because they've done it before. You know,
he they go to the double move and Max bites
on the first move and then with and jigomes open,
Sam darnoal make a heck of the throw. The receiver
made a fantask to catch. But you know, like it
was one of those cases again, like it because for
the second game in a row, defensively, because in the
(36:12):
first two weeks, the Cardinals came away with wins because
they had their best defensive players make big plays in
the final minute. And they didn't get that the last
two weeks. They didn't get that in the last two weeks.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
And that's again what the issue becomes. And just in general, right,
like you.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
Need this, you need a consistency to really create.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
Something. And we're talking on both sides of the ball.
And you know, those of you that followed me on
x Twitter or whatever you want to call it, like
you'll see that. My biggest takeaway from this group, this
team is that they're boring their average at everything, like
(36:59):
they literally are I think it was a Football Insights
dot com and then and then if you look at
Ben Baldwin literally just now, so thanks Ben for having
that up there, they're literally like in the cross sections
of offensive EPA per play and defensive EPA pro play,
(37:21):
they're literally almost at the zero zero mark on both
sides of the ball. Like they don't do anything overly
great on offense and they don't do anything overly great
on defense. They're just boring. And you know that's what
the hard thing is, is that you've got a very
(37:45):
you gotta you have a team that you feel like
should be better, that's playing an incredibly boring brand of
football that just makes you not even like just the
biggest complaint I truly truly have about this, I don't
(38:09):
even want to watch the games because they're just boring,
Like there's nothing, there's no entertainment value in these games.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
On the bright side, we are getting some plays made
by players who need to make plays. Kalais Campbell has
has another sack. Josh Sweat has a sack in a
third game in a row, so three game, four games,
three sacks. Darius Robinson had his first sack of the season.
That was good to see.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
But by the way, real quick on the Josh Sweat thing,
isn't it also interesting that and I think you would
kind of agree with me on this, that the Cardinals
don't seem to convert those opportunities like other teams do
(38:59):
against them. We we can, we can lament the interceptions whatever,
you know. The the first one, we'll just pin it
on Kyler. I have some thoughts on it, but uh,
you know, again as a as as a guy that
understands how hard it is to play with a mobile quarterback,
(39:23):
like if you're not if you're not sure what he's doing,
like you're not going to run that route, right, You're
not going to finish that crosser. The second one is
is what it is? You know, Marvin, like you said,
yips whatever whatever verbiage you want to use. He just
he just as the kids say, sold on that one.
(39:47):
But then you have the Josh Sweat sack fumble and
there's three Cardinals in the area and one Seahawks lineman
you know, pounces on the ball. And I get it
that that's a tough play. But that's that's kind of
the overarching theme of this theme this year, more than
(40:08):
anything else, is that there are plays to be made
in big moments and there and they happen and then
it just but the other team somehow survives it, whereas
like for the Cardinals, it's it's almost the opposite, right,
(40:28):
like some the other team finds a way to make
a big play and and really change the look of
the game overall. Because think about this, Jess, the Cardinals
recover that there's no field goal that takes the Seahawks
(40:51):
up to seventeen to three. That I mean, the Seahawks
scored on that drive.
Speaker 5 (40:58):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
That's a mass of play that just kind of gets
overlooked because it was a great play by Sweat. You know,
it shows up great on the stat sheet as we're
talking about right now, right like another sack for Josh Sweat.
Hell yeah, Like we're all excited as we should be,
but it's like, ah, man, can we just get one
play like that where it's like not just the sack,
(41:22):
but you get the fumble. You create this big opportunity
for your team because I mean, I think so far
this season and absolutely correct me if I'm wrong, but like,
the biggest play in that in that type of situation
is probably whoever forced the fumble after the interception, Like
(41:44):
that was the biggest play in like, oh, crap, the
Cardinals through an interception, Okay, never mind, it doesn't matter
because they punched it out like that.
Speaker 5 (41:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
Yeah, So like that's kind of been the biggest you know,
whatever you want to call it, luck skill, whatever, whatever
verbiage you want to use, that's been like that's that's
the one play that they've had. So I don't know, man,
it's just it's always interesting to me. I don't I
don't know if it's luck. I really don't, like, I
don't know how to describe it, but it's definitely something
(42:18):
that like it just feels like as Cardinals fans were
always like, oh, great play, Josh, and then kind of
I don't want to say, ignore the fact that there
was an even bigger play to be made there, you know,
because again it was a great I mean huge sack,
like huge sack in that situation that really didn't matter
(42:43):
because they still drove down the field and scored.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Yeah, coming next and the rest of her podcast, Best
are Cardinal's Stock in the Web. Let's move on and
talk about one final bit and that would be do
we need to be changes? That's coming next? And rece
ups He read back on the rises here podcast Best
Are Cardinals talk on the Web? Changes to be made?
Why what do we gotta do? We already saw that
(43:08):
there was a shift away from the big personnel offensively,
and I'm wondering if that's going to be especially with
James Connor injured for the rest of the season, if
we're going to see more three wide sets and so
we're going to see less Tip Ryman, We're going to
see less Elijah Higgins unless they build a leade and
(43:29):
then they can they can focus on running the ball
with Trey Benson. Also a concern Trey Benson's hurt, which
I think was why Michael Carter was in the game
late in the game. How severe it is, don't know.
He didn't practice Monday, and since there was no injury report,
Jonathan Gammon simply said, we had a bunch of guys
out there, you know, out who for one reason or another,
(43:50):
the injury report come on Wednesday, blah blah blah blah blah.
So thing to watch. Michael Carter got signed to the
active roster. So maybe maybe that means that that Tray's
going to be a little bit down for this week
against Tennessee. But I already already brought up the notion
about firing Drew Petsing. What does Drew Petsing fire? What
(44:11):
does firing Petsing do this year? Would it do anything?
And do you think it would change anything? Offensively?
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Well, the question becomes and you you posed it perfectly,
and it's something that we've talked about, you know, ad
nauseum in our in our group chat. Uh is this
really a Petsing issue? I mean, if it is, then
you know, then yeah, a change needs to be made.
But this, this feels like Petsing is running the offense
(44:39):
that his head coach, the defense, the defensive guru wants
to see and that it's conservative. Don't make mistakes, don't
you know, don't turn the ball over don't give the
other team short field. Let us win the game for you.
And that's just it's worked out twice, and it hasn't
worked out twice, right, And I don't want to put
(45:02):
it on the defense. You know, Chad Ryland holds some
some blame for missing the kick that again, I you know,
I was talking to somebody that's kind of a special
team's guru, and he's like, oh, that's on the coach, Like,
you haven't kicked that knuckleball kick all game and now
you ask a kicker to do it with you know,
twenty whatever seconds left in it.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Well, and Pat McAfee said it, he's like, you squid
a kick, you don't know what it's going to.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
Do, right, and that's going to do.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
And that's the thing is like, so you know, again
you you make a call, and.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Again they were kicking it short of the goalinge all again,
it would have, honestly, it would have made sense just
to do what they'd been doing all game.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
Right, a high lofting kick that takes them seven seconds
to return the ball to the twenty two.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
But you know that's neither here nor there.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
But again, like if that was a call from the coach, like,
was the execution piss poor? Absolutely, there's no doubt about it.
Nobody's going to argue that. But why are to your point, like,
why are you making that call with that in that situation?
Like what is the point in that situation to make
(46:19):
that call when you've not done it all game? And
I get it, you know, I was reading it's funny
enough before the game. I was reading that on those
squib kicks, it takes an average of twelve or thirteen
seconds to for the return. So they're thinking to themselves, Okay,
this will twenty eight seconds left or however many it was,
(46:41):
this will take it under twenty. I mean, that's the
easiest math we can do under twenty seconds. Okay, that's
I mean, that's that's big. So then they have very
little room to work with, you know, in that in
that time, they basically have three plays and anything in bounds,
you know, they've got to take their final time out.
(47:02):
Game is oh blah blah blah. So yeah, I mean,
I get it, I guess from that aspect of things.
But you know, when you're asking you your players to
do something and then they don't execute, whose fault is that?
(47:25):
And again I'm not trying to absolve the player. I'm
not trying to absolve the coaches. I'm just genuinely asking like, hey,
this is what we want to do, but it's not
working or we don't do it well. You know, you
talked about the offensive focus, especially twelve thirteen, running gap scheme,
(47:45):
running plays, you know, doing these different things. It's not working.
You know, we can we can debate on why, but
it's just not working. So do you just continue to
do it because that's what you do?
Speaker 5 (48:05):
Or do do good coaches? Do good teams.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
Adapt and and change how they do it because you
know it's not working. And I think that would be
where I would fire somebody. Does that make sense, like,
hey Drew, this isn't working, well, this is what we do. Okay,
then you're an idiot and we need to move on.
Like but but if it's like, hey, this isn't working. Okay,
(48:32):
you know we're four games in, this hasn't worked. We're
two and two, so it's not like you know, it's yeah,
we we missed a win or two. They're a good
chance we could before. No, but you know, it is
what it is, and and let's be honest. The the
injury to James was kind of the nail in the
coffin of what they wanted to do. But as you
(48:56):
so adequately pointed out, like, Okay, that's a short week.
We're not going to just make changes on a short week, right,
Like we're not just going to be like, all right,
we don't run twelve and thirteen personnel at all. We're
not going to run these run schemes anymore. Like now
it's like, okay, you know, we'll start to change things.
(49:17):
You know, we'll go heavier ten to eleven personnel than
we have all season, but we can't just you know,
change everything at once.
Speaker 5 (49:25):
You'll see more of a change this week.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
You'll see you know, as the week's unfold, especially you
know now that you have some time.
Speaker 5 (49:32):
So if Drew was basically like.
Speaker 4 (49:37):
Nope, not changing, then I think you make you have
to write because that's just arrogance at that point. This
is what we do, this is who we are, well
who you are boring as hell and not working. So
let's you know, let's try something different. But if it,
I mean, you know, I think your point, my point,
(50:00):
our point has kind of been like is it really
the offensive coach? Like and that's not to absolve Petsaing
from everything. That's just a question that has to be asked, right,
like is it really the offensive coach or is this
what the defensive head coach wants? And he's just doing
(50:24):
what he's told and.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Well and and agen and a Gannon's really good about that,
Like he falls on the sword. Is like, I'm never
gonna have problem with the offensive plane calling because I
know what plays are being called. Like he's saying, he's
saying that he's building the game plan offensively. This isn't.
This isn't like when Cliff Kingsbury basically let Vance Joseph
(50:50):
on his own right exactly, you're you're the defensive head coach,
like Cliff was the head coach, but Fance was the
defensive head coach. And while there was some communication that
basically Sliff didn't mess with Vance at all, let him
do his thing. Gan doesn't new that like Nick and
(51:10):
Drew both work closely with him in terms of their
goals offensively defensively, So Drew's doing that. The one thing
one change I want to I want to see is
within their scheme, within what they do, find ways to
get Marv the ball more easily early in the game.
(51:31):
It's it is an old adage, and he's the problem
is he's not mouthy like other receivers. But he has
the same type of body language on the field, doesn't
he like? He does the same type of like. He
doesn't sell out every play and itoks like he's engaged.
(51:51):
He he does white, he does number one wide receiver
things where when he's not targeted early on, his body
language changes on the field. He loafes through some routes.
He's he's not one hundred percent all the time. You
know what fixes that? Getting guys getting getting guys like
Marv the ball early and often giving him opportunities. You know,
(52:12):
give him in a quick wide receiver screen in one.
They used to do that with fits all the time.
But you do that with your with your playmakers early,
they're gonna feel warmed up and it opens things up
immensely during the game. So you throw them a little
seven round out, uh seven yard out. You throw them
a quick slant you quote, you do you do for
(52:33):
him one of those wide receiver screens that are designed
for someone else. Just give him the ball a couple
of times, let him do things and then then then
you start through and going after him. You start targeting
him in those more in the tricky routes that things
down the field, which help not only you need you
need mar selling out those routes early on, even down
the field to open things underneath. It's not just getting
(52:55):
him his catches, but he needs to be engaged so
that his routes are true to options for the opposing defense.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
Yeah, and you need him to be a big play guy,
and that's something that we've seen capable obviously. The sixteen
yard touchdown, massive play and game, huge moment for the team,
something that I think everybody kind of involved needed, right,
Like everybody was like, oh god, that was that was nice.
(53:24):
We need all needed to see that. That's what we've
been waiting for. But I mean, overall, like you said, man,
it just it just comes down to having a better
balance and a better approach of like, yeah, we're running
or we want to be a run first team, but
we've invested heavily, heavily and improving this this passing game.
(53:52):
So let's do that. Let's let's show that a little
bit and and you know, hopefully that does happen. Quite frankly,
I'd like to get the ball, and I know people
are gonna be like this, they get the ball to
him a lot. I'd like to get the ball to
Trey McBride in space a little more like let him.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
It's like you get on those tight end screens once
he gets rolling. Oh my gosh, like in traffic too,
because those screenplays they're messy. They're they're messy down the
field because you've got the other guys around and Tray's
a guy. Oh my goodness. Now, granted you get him
in space in the red zone, he gets tackled. That's
(54:34):
just how it goes.
Speaker 5 (54:36):
I don't know. I still don't understand that.
Speaker 3 (54:39):
He's hurtling guys. He's side stepping guys. But but inside
the ten it's like shoe stream tackle. But no, those
the wide receiver screens he's really good at because he
moves really well. Yes, and I think there's one thing
I maybe you agree at this point, we just got
to we got to make this change. It's time for
Will Hernandez. It's time for and that sucks because like
(55:06):
he looks so good all off seat and then but
during the game he's the case in point. What was
the game that the first sack that they gave up
to Seattle, uh in wo Sue got the sack and
it was Trey Benson and Isaiah Adams. They had two
guys to block one guy and in Nuosu just sidestepped
them both untouched and got to Kyler. I don't know
(55:28):
how that happens, but that's not supposed to happen, and
it's time we need Will back and hopefully he's Hopefully
he's a semblance of the Will Hernandez that he's then
he's been because it's not been good. Now as for
moving off of Evan Brown, some people's I've seen peoples
they put Beach and like Beach's ever played guard.
Speaker 4 (55:48):
And by the way, each has been terrible in his
very limited but terrible in his playing time.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
In fairness, he's an old left tackle, no he and.
Speaker 4 (56:01):
That's the thing he very much is. And he had
to play against uh Nick Bosa for part of a
game and then Mikeil Williams for a little bit. And
so those are good, you know, like you said, those
are good pass rushers. But yeah, I mean he looked
he did not look great in that game. Yeah, So
I mean those are those are changes that need to
(56:24):
be made. Let me ask you this, Jessin obviously with
the with the benefit of hindsight, we can make this statement.
But do you think with how they wanted to do things,
the way the running back room was built, and the
(56:46):
fact that neither guy played seventeen games, which is not
uncommon for running backs by the way, but neither guy
was available for seventeen games, that it was not smart
to just completely ignore the running.
Speaker 5 (57:00):
Back position this offseason.
Speaker 4 (57:01):
And we could talk about the entire offense, but I'm
specifically asking about the running back based on and obviously
nobody expects James Connor you know, career potentially to end.
But I mean Benson in a part time role, only
stayed healthy for thirteen games last year. I think James
(57:24):
was thirteen or fourteen, I don't remember off the top
of my head. Like, doesn't a day three running back
at that point make sense?
Speaker 5 (57:33):
Because you're like.
Speaker 4 (57:35):
You you've you know, expounded on this a number of times,
but you know what you have in de Marcado and
Michael Carter Bam Knight was a bit of a revelation,
but it's not like he's doing anything in the game, right,
So you know what you have in de Marcado and
in Michael Carter.
Speaker 3 (57:53):
Maybe that's that's why, because they knew they had a
guy like Michael Carter as number four five.
Speaker 5 (58:01):
So so.
Speaker 4 (58:03):
With so then you're thinking, like, oh, if if anything
happens to Connor long term, we know we're gonna have
to change the offensive, the run, the running scheme a
little bit. And now we have Benson and Carter in
those roles as opposed to you know, I mean, that's
just kind of my thought process is one, you know,
(58:23):
the more we get into the Benson era, he's not
he's not necessarily a compliment to James Connor as much
as he is kind of like a counterpoint to Connor,
right like, oh, you've got the rugged, uh you know,
wear them down type, and then you've got the explosive
(58:46):
Like get him outside. Yes he's big and physical, but
let him get get vertical and make plays.
Speaker 5 (58:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (58:54):
I just I was thinking about that the other day
because I'm just like, I'm like, man, obviously it's hindsight,
but if you wanted to run the ball a lot,
you definitely didn't like make it seem like that this
offseason by basically just running everything back and saying like,
(59:14):
we'll see if Isaiah Adams is good enough and kind
of going with that philosophy, and now you're talking about it.
You know, obviously Adams is one of the bigger issues.
He might be the worst guard in the NFL right now.
And that's not hyperbole, that's just the reality. He's not
playing well what he was supposed to be great at.
He's really really struggling at, which is run blocking. So
(59:40):
like you said, hopefully Will Hernandez is eighty percent of
what he was last year when he was, you know,
wrecking people and playing at a high level. Man they
need it.
Speaker 3 (59:51):
Do they do? And with that, we'll wrap this edition
of the Rises here at podcast Bestar Cardinals Talcle. We've
got two more shows coming this week. I will have
Mike Mark Mahalco from from Titan's Wire. Is he Well?
I'll record that next and then later in the week
seth then I will do our previous show and then
this feels like we'll talk more about that on Friday.
This should be a get well gained for the Cardinals
(01:00:14):
three set and then to kind of reevaluate before they
hit a tougher part of the schedule. But until then,
that's seth Cox, I'm just rude. Thanks for listening. As always,
we'll be back against soone.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitch Your Radio, Audio Boom,
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Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
We'll be back.
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Soon for the best hour of cardinals talk on the web,
Rise up Red, c b Red Sea Red, and of
course Rise Up Sea.
Speaker 6 (01:00:52):
Red Lives, It.
Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Lives, It Lives, It Lives It
Zz No.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Lors on a Cardinals fans, and welcome to the latest
edition of the Rise Up Scared podcast as star Cardinals
Talk on the Web. I'm your host Jess Root from
cardswire dot com, the USA today NFL wiresite that covers
Arizona Cardinals after a short layoff because the Cardinals have
not played since Thursday. In his episode seven hundred and
four with my co host Seth Cox from Revenge of
the Birds dot com, espianations, Arizona Cardinals side is, we've
(00:55):
we've had a few days to mull over what we
saw on Thursday nights. A disappointing twenty three to twenty
loss on a second week in a row, last second
field goal by a division opponent. What did you like?
What did you take away from that game?
Speaker 4 (01:16):
First and foremost, I think the first thing you look
at is that you know the division within itself is
relatively close and competitive, and so that's you know, that's important.
The problem became something that we've talked about, is that
they just can't be conservative, Like you can't expect to
(01:41):
be good teams like the Seahawks, like the forty nine ers,
those teams playing the way you did against teams like
New Orleans and Carolina, because when you do that, you're
just setting yourself up for failure. And so that's kind
of what I took away from it is that there's
not like a goal like there had been previously between
(02:03):
the Cardinals and their rivals, but there is maybe a
more concerning golf between the coaches.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's an interesting thing as we note,
because yeah, the division has three teams. The forty nine ers,
after losing on Sunday to the Jaguars, forty Nineers continue
to have injury concerns, as Rock Pridy might be missing
another game this week. The Rams look good, but are beatable,
(02:36):
Like if you look at what they what they did
against the Coltal, you know, they played a very tough
Colts team. The Seahawks look good, They've got three three
and one teams, and the Cardinals now in last place
at two and two and unfortunately behind the eight ball
in terms of the division, because they are zero in
two in their first two divisional games with four left
(02:56):
later on in the season. And I guess kind of
the narrative it was a twenty three to twenty I
the story was off obviously, was about the offense. That
was the talking point of the entire broadcast. It's been
the talking points since then. It was Kyler Murray, it
(03:19):
was Drew Petsing, it was Marvin Harrison. Before we dive
into to many of the things. What what did we
see that was good from the offense? Unfortunately it was
the fourth consecutive week they have failed to reach three
hundred yards overall. They didn't they they fell down. They
(03:45):
fell behind twenty to six, so they had only had
for the first three quarters two field goals. Was there
anything positive that you took away from what they did,
whether to the beginning or totality of the performance.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
I think you look at the ending of the game
in the last you know, several drives, and you look
at it and you go, why is this not how
they play early? Why is this not how aggressive they
are early in the game. And I saw some comments
out there that were like, oh, well, you know, Seadam
was playing soft ball.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
They weren't.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I mean we saw that they were still bringing the heat,
they were still bringing pressure, they were still trying to
stay disruptive against the Cardinals. The Cardinals just you know,
relied more on on their quarterback to make big plays
and you know, their their offense to make plays.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
That that could work out.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
And you know, it's that old chestnut that you and
I talk about all the time of it just seems
like there's no complimentary football with this group. The defense
does a fairly nice job. I mean, we talked a
little bit about it in our group chat. During the game,
(05:06):
they especially in the first half, it was very feast
or famine, right, Like, you saw some different things from
the defense, whereas the offense was just all putrid. In
the first half, right, you had the the interception that
ended up they caused a fumble and recovered it, and
(05:27):
then but then you had the other interception when it
seemed like they were finally getting things going right, like
it's like, oh, here we go, here we go. But
in the second half, I mean, you look at it,
just four possessions, you know, they they punted their first possession,
then they they got a field goal, and then it
(05:51):
was just kind of sturgical things that we've been wanting
to see that we saw. So where is that urgency
early in the game, especially against good teams, especially coming
off a game where we saw the same thing. I think,
I mean, we're going to get to that, but I
think that's the biggest concern, right is, like we saw
(06:14):
that when they want to spread it out and throw
the ball around, they're not bad at it. The problem
became like, why are they not willing to do that consistently,
especially early in the game. Why are they so hell
bent on establishing the run?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Like?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
That's that's what's so interesting, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I think in part it was trying to take advantage
of their strengths, which was especially early on, like before
last season and early last season. I mean, when your
best two players on offense are James Connor and Tree McBride,
it makes sense to kind of build an offense like that.
(06:59):
And we've wondered about Drew Petsing's wide receiver use, but
I can understand why you would want to do that,
why you would want to kind of establish run because
you know, Kyler does better when there is a balance
like his performances are much more dominant. When there is
(07:19):
a balanced performance, you've got it running back in James Connor.
It allows you to play heavy with twelve personnel thirteen
personnel because of the type of tight end that Trey
McBride is. But now with Connor out for the rest
of the year, things have to change a little bit.
(07:41):
And I guess the first thing that we saw was
almost completely abandoning twelve and thirteen personnel, which made from
one week to the next they became they became a
much more traditional looking offense. They ran. I think I
saw the numbers were out of fifty four of sixty
(08:02):
seven plays or snaps that there were, fifty four of
them were with three receivers on the field, which is
something we have not seen much of. But when you
take James Connor out of the equation, it might make
more sense to open things up, especially with the type
(08:23):
of runner stylistically that Tray Benson is compared to Connor.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Right, Benson's almost that big play runner. Right, he's not.
He's not the grinder, he's not the grinded out. He's
not the guy that's gonna go you know, to to to.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Eight eight nine, twelve fourteen.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
You know, like what we've seen from Connor, what what
he's gonna do is he's gonna hit some He's gonna
pop some big runs early, right, He'll go to to
thirty one, one, twenty five, Like that's his style. Whereas
whereas Connor's like he's averaging, you know, two point eight,
two point eight yards per carry for two and a
(09:03):
half quarters and then and then that third and fourth quarter,
It's like, how does he have one hundred and twenty
yards rushing and average number five yards of car?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, and I will say this, the running, the running attack,
the rush attack was more efficient. It wasn't productive. They
only ended up with with eighty nine eighty nine rushing
yards the entire game, but it was a much more
efficient rushing attack. It wasn't great and I and I
(09:34):
wondered if I think part of it was the philosophical change,
the kind of the scheme change or the formation change.
But also you're putting you're putting Benson into a role
that he probably is more accustomed to in his football
life than that is being the guy he's the number one,
and then you put him Marty Marcado back into that
(09:58):
that third down rule where he is quite where he's
quite productive, he's quite efficient. The rushing numbers, it wasn't.
So they had the one twenty nine yard run from
from Murray and after the after the twenty nine yard run,
So you take you take the sixty carries, I mean
(10:20):
the sixty yards that they had outside of that play,
you ended up with sixty yards on sixty on sixteen carries,
which still wasn't great. It was it was three point
eight yards, but that's better than it was the previous
several games were if you took away the explosive runs
(10:44):
like the one or two big runs, they were averaging
under three a carry. And so I think that one
thing that we're going to see and I hope to
continue to see it, is that the run game, while
it was not run heavy by any means, the running
game was far a little bit more efficient. And I
(11:05):
think that was in part because Benson, honestly, because you know,
Benson was in a role that probably suits him more.
They gave him the third down role with with that
was de Mercado's role, because they wanted to increase his touches,
his impact on the offense. But they did that without
(11:29):
reducing James connors as and as a result, Benson, who
in the amount of times I paid attention, has done
a He has done a fine job in past protection,
but it's a role that is different than what he's done.
And I'll say this again, I don't recall seeing it
in the I don't recall seeing it in practice or
the preseason either. So this is I think this is
(11:50):
something that is fairly fairly new in terms of number
of reps for him, and so I think that got
a little extra settled down. I think we have to
talk about the past game. I mean, we look at
Kyler Murray's two interceptions and we're once again we're looking
at a situation whereas we're in a situation where if
Kyler has to the Cardinals really are only able to
(12:14):
succeed if he's near perfect, and you know, if he
turns the ball over it all, whether it's his fault
or not, the Cardinals don't end up with much of
a chance. He I think he did overall a pretty
good job in the passing game, But the entire broadcast
was almost dedicated to the performance of Marvin Harrison Junior,
and how that talking point continues to be what carries
(12:39):
what It's been the biggest storyline this year for the Cardinals.
It's what's wrong with Marvin Harrison? And do you think
that it is as much a mental thing as anything else,
that he's putting pressure on himself to produce and as
a result, isn't playing full speed football.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Yeah, I think that's some of it.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
I think the other part of it is that you've
got a guy that's used to success and he's having
adversity for the first time and now it's you know,
difficult almost.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's almost like he had a little bit of the yips.
If you look at some of the some of the drops,
you're like, why are you dropping those? And and it's
made worse because he's not getting lots of other easy
opportunities to kind of get in rhythm like many other
receivers do. Like if we watched the Monday night game
and you saw I know he's not their number one,
(13:34):
but you saw bo Nick's you know, at line of
really quick line of scrimmage throw to to Troy Franklin
and things like that, Like they don't do that for Mark.
They don't design anything to get him touches early and
sort of in a rhythm to feel. You know, you
get a couple of catches, you pick up a first
down to get the juices going, and the next thing,
(13:56):
you know, like the only throws that he gets towards
him are the the tougher throws. And I think they
would do it. They they are not doing themselves any
favors in terms of how Harrison produces by not doing
that well.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
And some of it just comes down to We've talked
about it quite a bit there all of a sudden,
very conservative early in games, right, and so it's it's, oh,
it's it's going to be a play action or it's
going to be you know, if it's third and long,
they're going to throw the ball, and you know, it
(14:34):
becomes really obvious when they're going to throw the ball.
It almost seems like, right, like there's rarely any variety
or or things like that in terms of what they're
trying to do. And you know, you look at little things, right,
you look at things like average average depth of target
(15:01):
on third and less than three. They're they're rarely throwing
the ball beyond the sticks. It's usually a swing pass
something of that nature.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
And that goes.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Almost at every level until you get to fourth down.
And it's a weird thing because on fourth down they
throw beyond the sticks. But and there's only been two plays,
so it's not like we have a huge sample size.
But on these other plays, it's always always always short
(15:42):
of the stick.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
And you wonder why.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
There's a lot of interesting things. First downs, you know,
he's only attempted forty passes this year. Second and ten pluses,
he's he's attempted sixteen passes this year, and so that's
a crazy stat to me, right, And so you look
(16:10):
at that and it's like, but here, just think about
this third and ten passes. He's only attempted thirteen this year,
and almost all of them are are attempted short of
the stick. So third and ten plus their average depth
of targets six and a half yards, which means obviously
there are probably three or four in that in that
(16:34):
thirteen that are a little beyond, but most of them
are you know, short checkdowns, things of that nature. And
it's and it's because when you're in obvious passing situations,
nobody respects you because you don't have a variety of things.
It's it's okay, it's going to tray if not look
(16:54):
at Marv. If Marv isn't running hard because he's not
the first option, it's okay, it's gonna be a checkdown
to try Benson or a Mario de Mercato or James Kong, Right, Like,
that's kind of how it's been, And so the question becomes,
how do you how do you change those things for
this franchise or this team? Just like, to me, it's
(17:18):
wild that on his throes when they need between four
and six yards, his average depth of targets longer than
when it's ten plus yards. And I know it's it's
an obvious situation, but it just kind of tells the
story of what's wrong with his offense is it's it's
lived to fight another day, which isn't a bad thing,
(17:39):
but when you're going against good teams, you have to
you have to have a little pressure in what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
That said, Marv came alive late and you could tell
it was a huge weight off his shoulder when he
caught the touchdown pass. And you know, I think that
means that we can expect to see a little bit
more consistency. But like there was less variety in formations
(18:08):
they had six players who caught passes as opposed to
eight or nine the previous games. They they brought an
Xavier Weaver for a player to They had no Jay
Jones and so it was more Greg Dertsch in the
passing game. And we've seen how that maybe affects things
a little bit. But you know the talk of this,
(18:31):
do you think, like everyone's talking, Drew passing needs to go,
Drew pets needs to go, Like whether or not you
do that, here's the thing. Firing the offensive coordinator at
this point of the year, when you have a team
and a and a scheme that is based on that,
what's going to change? Like what is Firing Petsing doing?
(18:51):
And I think one of the I think one of
the more positive things that we have seen was that
there was a personnel's change last week, that there were adjustments.
And ultimately, I don't think this is necessarily a Petscene
thing as so much it is as a cannon thing
(19:15):
in terms of philosophy, like people want to bring in
Kurt Warner, people like the Gannon brought Petsing in for
a reason. Petsing's offensive scheme is put together his his
play calling decisions, they're all under the blanket of what
Caanon wants to see. Now, have we should seen Gannon
be willing to change things up a little bit? Yes,
(19:38):
But ultimately, as we talked about on this show before,
is Gannon is showing that he really is like a
lot of defensive minded head coaches. It is hey, he
talks about explosive plays. He talks about this in that
but ultimately it's a the ball is the like it
is control the ball.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
And yeah, and and you know it's interesting because you
go to the opposite side of that, right, and it's
it's Mike McDaniel or Mike McDonald uh from from last game, right,
And and the Seahawks are aggressive, but they're aggressive within reason.
(20:25):
Like think think about this, Jess. They're they're passing offense.
It wasn't like it was astoundingly better than the Cardinals
in that game. It was just timed better.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, And I think I think part of that is
the person out of the quarterback is is kind of
like Tyler really tried. I believe he tries to because
we saw him under Cliff Kingsbury like he wants big plays.
I think he really is trying to play within the
(21:03):
system that he's given, Like he buys into what they're doing,
and so if they want him to be careful with
the football, he's going to be careful with the football
unless it's a dire situation. Now, I get a couple
of those things, like both the throws got picked off
and you can't really like one there was a miscommunication
between him and Harris and the other one Carrison just
(21:24):
basically gave it to Urnas Jones after bobbling it. But
Sam Darnald also loves to rip the football like he
just he loves and he has to be rained in.
So what you have with Donald and Clinton with versus
Mike McDonald Clinton Kubiak, is that you have a quarterback
(21:44):
who's even more aggressive in personality and has to be
rained in. While Kyler is one hundred percent willing, at
least under this coaching staff to follow what his coaches
are asking him to do, as opposed to in Cliff Kingsburg,
like he wanted to make more happen than what was.
(22:05):
And I think that was part of the problem in
twenty twenty two is that some of the criticism that
you took is that he wanted like he was changing
a lot because he wanted to do more. And when
Colt McCoy took over, it's like, okay, get rid of
the ball, get rid of the ball. He was just
following exactly what the game plan was, and Kyler was
trying to make things happen well.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
And you look at it right, like, and I get
that the Seahawks had a little bit of a lead
in the game and so it lent itself to running
the ball slightly more. But you know, you look at
the game and the way the game went. You know,
Darnald only threw the ball twenty six times, Kyler forty
(22:48):
one times. The Seahawks had two guys with more rushing
attempts than the Cardinals leading guy in attempt And we
talked about Kenneth Walker, right, his game wasn't overly efficient.
Uh nineteen carries for eighty one yards. I mean, that's
(23:10):
barely over four yards per carry.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Twenty one of that came in one big play.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Right Cardinals. Yeah, the Cardinals. I mean, but you look
at the like, just look at the game script. It's
it's wild to look at this, and I get it,
you know, it was it was seventeen to three at
one point seventeen to six and blah blah blah. But
but look at the game script. You had thirty five
(23:38):
rushing attempts for one hundred and fifty five yards, and
it looks like, oh, one hundred and fifty five yards
giving up on the ground.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
That's a lot. And then like thirty five attempts.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
That's not good like that, that's that's not great by
any stretch of the imagination. You know, there were six
of thirteen on third down, they were zerover one on
fourth down, eighteen for twenty six for two hundred and
forty two. Like all of their numbers are very nondescript.
(24:09):
But they put up three hundred and eighty four yards
of total offense and they score twenty three points, and
that makes you go, Okay, they look like, you know,
a good to a very good offense. And it's like, no,
they're just methodical, Like they don't ever panic, they don't
ever look you know, frenzied. And and you know, even
(24:32):
in that game, we talked about it, like, the thing
that gets me about about the way people react to
the to the Cardinals is that there's no like nuance too, right,
So we talked about it the Cardinals get the ball,
five plays eighteen yards. The Seahawks get the ball, they
(24:54):
go six plays thirty eight yards and turn the ball
over on downs h obviously the interception, but then they
get the ball back, they go six plays for thirty
three yards in a field goals, so they have a
you know, three to zero lead then and then that's
that complimentary football we talk about a little bit, right,
The Seahawks immediately get the ball back, they go seventy
(25:17):
seven yards and seven plays and score a touchdown and
they're immediately leading the game. Now again, I'm not gonna
act like that the Cardinals defense can never give up points.
That's That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is,
isn't it kind of ironic that like the team that
then the next two series you see ten plays for
(25:41):
thirteen yards from the opponent and two punts, and we
don't discuss the fact that, you know, sandwich, those are
sandwiched in between two scoring drives that totaled one hundred
and sixty seven yards. Like That's the stuff that gets
(26:04):
me is that we just and don't get me wrong,
both sides need to play complimentary football better. But you
kick a field goal, you go up three nothing, and
immediately the Seahawks get the lead back and then it's
just kind of that jostling from there for the next
four series on each side of the ball, and then
(26:28):
the Seahawks right before the half get the ball back,
you know, take up two minutes and forty five seconds
and go ninety yards for a touchdown. And and it
was it was like, okay, like you had those those
two excellent, excellent defensive series in a row, right that,
(26:51):
Like I said, ten plays thirteen yards, that's phenomenal, But
that was in between a thirty eight yard drive that
you own got off the field on fourth down because
they ran an interesting play. I'm not gonna say it
was a good play, right, Like, it was an interesting play.
And then you have a seventy seventy yard drive in
a ninety yard drive.
Speaker 5 (27:11):
It's like it's like this.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Defense is really really playing feast or famine and and
it matches the energy of the offense unfortunately, right like
the car.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Let's actually let's let's dive into the defensive side of
the ball to go this point. Coming next on the Reses,
hear about the podcast Best R Cardinals talking about Let's
look at the defensive performance that Seth just started mentioning
it's coming next on Receups. You read We're back on
the ruses here podcast Best Our Cardinals talking about talking defense. Uh.
In the game, Seth already started talking about that is
that it was really feast, you're famine. And you know,
(27:49):
as good as the defense was, they also were their bugaboo.
That their bugaboo was the big play. They gave up
a thirty six yard pass If you look up, if
you look at like there was a thirty six yard
pass play, twenty nine yard pass play, thirty two yard
pass play. And if I pull up the game book,
(28:11):
we can see just how many plays that the Cardinals
gave up were because they kept them contained until they
didn't is kind of what it was. And and ultimately,
like that last drive, it was the very the game
winning drive that they had. Ultimately, it came down to
the fact that that they had they had that monster played.
(28:33):
So they the Seahawks had one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven plays of twenty yards or more. The Cardinals had
one and four.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
That was a Kyler Murray scramble.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It was a it was a Kyler scramble. Yeah, and
so they gave up seven plays that were twenty yards
or more. That's that's like just right there. And if
we add up now, if we do a little quick
math on the on those plays through six plus three
two plus twenty nine plus twenty four plus twenty two
(29:09):
plus twenty one plus twenty one hundred and eighty four
of the three hundred and eighty four total, so seven
plays accounted for nearly half of their yards.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Well, and that's the thing, you know we talked about
is you know, there's there's this idea of complimentary football,
and you know, again this the Cardinals offense is middling
at best, uh and anemic at worst, but they show
(29:49):
flashes of where you're like, Okay, why is this not
more consistently what the offense looks like? Right Like, why
do they not go that aggressive more consistently? The defense
is just kind of befuddling at times. You mentioned it, right, like,
so so you get that three to nothing lead and
(30:13):
then you come out and it's you know, it's it's
twelve yards. So Elijah Arroyo, it's not like, listen to
these plays. Just twelve nine twenty one eight incomplete eleven sixteen,
an eight and a nine yard play where the I
mean other than an incomplete pass.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Those were literally like.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
The it's almost like the sleep walk through drives. And
we talked about this in the previous game or sorry,
the Carolina game. The thing that gets me is that
they rarely ever get it when they have their bad drives.
(30:57):
They rarely ever get in third down situations. And that
that was the case in this one first down, first down,
second and one first down, second and two incomplete past
third and two first down touchdown, like they had one
third down. It was a third and two and the
Seahawks were already in phillal range. So the Seahawks were like,
(31:17):
we can do a lot of different things in that case.
And I know it's kind of easy to say, right like,
oh yeah, just get get them in in third and
long situations.
Speaker 5 (31:29):
It makes it easy.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
But but that is kind of a reality to it, right, Like,
if you're not forcing third downs, you can't get off
the field.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
And you look at that you have to win first
and second down to get to third down and win,
And doesn't that.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Well, and doesn't that just seem like a broader issue
of the team, right, Like you have, for instance, the Cardinals.
So the Cardinals get the ball back with five point
forty left in the.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Game, they get to they get it to third and two, and.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Michael Carter gets his first carry of the season, and
I think all of us were kind of like, huh, like,
we're we're fine with Michael Carter being back. We're you know,
we're excited. But third and two and you run him
on a on a simple duo out of shotgun, Like,
(32:35):
what are we doing? And then that touchdown drive. Okay,
so you know, we go back to the Seahawks touchdown
drive third and two was the only third down. Then
their second touchdown drive first down, burst down, first down,
first down, second down, burst down, second down, third down,
(32:57):
and one from the Arizona one for touchdown, like again,
one third down. The entire series, it's just such a
befuddling like lack of ability to to make plays. And
again you go back to it, right, Elijah Arroyo thirty
(33:20):
two yard reception, Sam Darnold twenty four yard scramble, Zack
Sharbone fifteen yard run, Zach Sharbona two yard run. So
that was the first like stop on the drive four
plays in before they got anything less than a first down. Again,
(33:41):
it's it's hard to criticize the defense that's playing hard
and that at times is playing at an insanely elite level.
But at the same time, it's like, what is happening? Like,
how how are you so inconsistent from drive to drive?
(34:01):
And I and people all the time are like, well,
you know, they're just on the field so much.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Okay, I don't I don't.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
Agree on the field because of their own fault, right,
I don't disagree with.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
That giving up first downs before third.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Down, right, and so.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I you know, but we're not talking about late in
the game when when they're gassed, right, Like we're talking
about a team that has been out for one series,
literally just one series. Your your offense scores after a
nearly five minute of game time drive and you immediately
(34:38):
come out and give up seventy yards for a touchdown
and and you get one third down, And so it's
just stuff like that, Like, you know, I'm not even
like overly upset the the the past to Jackson Smith
(34:59):
and Jake late in the game that set things up.
I would actually lay up the feet personally. More of
the DC, you know, their best player. You know that
they've got to get you know, about twenty five yards
total to be in a good spot.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Why are you.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
Soloing maybe the best receiver in the NFL currently against
the guy that's good in Max Melton.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
But you know, and as you as you noted during
the game in our group text, I think it was
you that that was they paid attention. Is that because
Melton that that move that yeah, JSN made, Max had
bit on a previous throw and so they knew they
(35:51):
could beat him because they've done it before. You know,
he they go to the double move and Max bites
on the first move and then with and jigomes open,
Sam darnoal make a heck of the throw. The receiver
made a fantask to catch. But you know, like it
was one of those cases again, like it because for
the second game in a row, defensively, because in the
(36:12):
first two weeks, the Cardinals came away with wins because
they had their best defensive players make big plays in
the final minute. And they didn't get that the last
two weeks. They didn't get that in the last two weeks.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
And that's again what the issue becomes. And just in general, right,
like you.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
Need this, you need a consistency to really create.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
Something. And we're talking on both sides of the ball.
And you know, those of you that followed me on
x Twitter or whatever you want to call it, like
you'll see that. My biggest takeaway from this group, this
team is that they're boring their average at everything, like
(36:59):
they literally are I think it was a Football Insights
dot com and then and then if you look at
Ben Baldwin literally just now, so thanks Ben for having
that up there, they're literally like in the cross sections
of offensive EPA per play and defensive EPA pro play,
(37:21):
they're literally almost at the zero zero mark on both
sides of the ball. Like they don't do anything overly
great on offense and they don't do anything overly great
on defense. They're just boring. And you know that's what
the hard thing is, is that you've got a very
(37:45):
you gotta you have a team that you feel like
should be better, that's playing an incredibly boring brand of
football that just makes you not even like just the
biggest complaint I truly truly have about this, I don't
(38:09):
even want to watch the games because they're just boring,
Like there's nothing, there's no entertainment value in these games.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
On the bright side, we are getting some plays made
by players who need to make plays. Kalais Campbell has
has another sack. Josh Sweat has a sack in a
third game in a row, so three game, four games,
three sacks. Darius Robinson had his first sack of the season.
That was good to see.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
But by the way, real quick on the Josh Sweat thing,
isn't it also interesting that and I think you would
kind of agree with me on this, that the Cardinals
don't seem to convert those opportunities like other teams do
(38:59):
against them. We we can, we can lament the interceptions whatever,
you know. The the first one, we'll just pin it
on Kyler. I have some thoughts on it, but uh,
you know, again as a as as a guy that
understands how hard it is to play with a mobile quarterback,
(39:23):
like if you're not if you're not sure what he's doing,
like you're not going to run that route, right, You're
not going to finish that crosser. The second one is
is what it is? You know, Marvin, like you said,
yips whatever whatever verbiage you want to use. He just
he just as the kids say, sold on that one.
(39:47):
But then you have the Josh Sweat sack fumble and
there's three Cardinals in the area and one Seahawks lineman
you know, pounces on the ball. And I get it
that that's a tough play. But that's that's kind of
the overarching theme of this theme this year, more than
(40:08):
anything else, is that there are plays to be made
in big moments and there and they happen and then
it just but the other team somehow survives it, whereas
like for the Cardinals, it's it's almost the opposite, right,
(40:28):
like some the other team finds a way to make
a big play and and really change the look of
the game overall. Because think about this, Jess, the Cardinals
recover that there's no field goal that takes the Seahawks
(40:51):
up to seventeen to three. That I mean, the Seahawks
scored on that drive.
Speaker 5 (40:58):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
That's a mass of play that just kind of gets
overlooked because it was a great play by Sweat. You know,
it shows up great on the stat sheet as we're
talking about right now, right like another sack for Josh Sweat.
Hell yeah, Like we're all excited as we should be,
but it's like, ah, man, can we just get one
play like that where it's like not just the sack,
(41:22):
but you get the fumble. You create this big opportunity
for your team because I mean, I think so far
this season and absolutely correct me if I'm wrong, but like,
the biggest play in that in that type of situation
is probably whoever forced the fumble after the interception, Like
(41:44):
that was the biggest play in like, oh, crap, the
Cardinals through an interception, Okay, never mind, it doesn't matter
because they punched it out like that.
Speaker 5 (41:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
Yeah, So like that's kind of been the biggest you know,
whatever you want to call it, luck skill, whatever, whatever
verbiage you want to use, that's been like that's that's
the one play that they've had. So I don't know, man,
it's just it's always interesting to me. I don't I
don't know if it's luck. I really don't, like, I
don't know how to describe it, but it's definitely something
(42:18):
that like it just feels like as Cardinals fans were
always like, oh, great play, Josh, and then kind of
I don't want to say, ignore the fact that there
was an even bigger play to be made there, you know,
because again it was a great I mean huge sack,
like huge sack in that situation that really didn't matter
(42:43):
because they still drove down the field and scored.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Yeah, coming next and the rest of her podcast, Best
are Cardinal's Stock in the Web. Let's move on and
talk about one final bit and that would be do
we need to be changes? That's coming next? And rece
ups He read back on the rises here podcast Best
Are Cardinals talk on the Web? Changes to be made?
Why what do we gotta do? We already saw that
(43:08):
there was a shift away from the big personnel offensively,
and I'm wondering if that's going to be especially with
James Connor injured for the rest of the season, if
we're going to see more three wide sets and so
we're going to see less Tip Ryman, We're going to
see less Elijah Higgins unless they build a leade and
(43:29):
then they can they can focus on running the ball
with Trey Benson. Also a concern Trey Benson's hurt, which
I think was why Michael Carter was in the game
late in the game. How severe it is, don't know.
He didn't practice Monday, and since there was no injury report,
Jonathan Gammon simply said, we had a bunch of guys
out there, you know, out who for one reason or another,
(43:50):
the injury report come on Wednesday, blah blah blah blah blah.
So thing to watch. Michael Carter got signed to the
active roster. So maybe maybe that means that that Tray's
going to be a little bit down for this week
against Tennessee. But I already already brought up the notion
about firing Drew Petsing. What does Drew Petsing fire? What
(44:11):
does firing Petsing do this year? Would it do anything?
And do you think it would change anything? Offensively?
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Well, the question becomes and you you posed it perfectly,
and it's something that we've talked about, you know, ad
nauseum in our in our group chat. Uh is this
really a Petsing issue? I mean, if it is, then
you know, then yeah, a change needs to be made.
But this, this feels like Petsing is running the offense
(44:39):
that his head coach, the defense, the defensive guru wants
to see and that it's conservative. Don't make mistakes, don't
you know, don't turn the ball over don't give the
other team short field. Let us win the game for you.
And that's just it's worked out twice, and it hasn't
worked out twice, right, And I don't want to put
(45:02):
it on the defense. You know, Chad Ryland holds some
some blame for missing the kick that again, I you know,
I was talking to somebody that's kind of a special
team's guru, and he's like, oh, that's on the coach, Like,
you haven't kicked that knuckleball kick all game and now
you ask a kicker to do it with you know,
twenty whatever seconds left in it.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Well, and Pat McAfee said it, he's like, you squid
a kick, you don't know what it's going to.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
Do, right, and that's going to do.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
And that's the thing is like, so you know, again
you you make a call, and.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Again they were kicking it short of the goalinge all again,
it would have, honestly, it would have made sense just
to do what they'd been doing all game.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
Right, a high lofting kick that takes them seven seconds
to return the ball to the twenty two.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
But you know that's neither here nor there.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
But again, like if that was a call from the coach, like,
was the execution piss poor? Absolutely, there's no doubt about it.
Nobody's going to argue that. But why are to your point, like,
why are you making that call with that in that situation?
Like what is the point in that situation to make
(46:19):
that call when you've not done it all game? And
I get it, you know, I was reading it's funny
enough before the game. I was reading that on those
squib kicks, it takes an average of twelve or thirteen
seconds to for the return. So they're thinking to themselves, Okay,
this will twenty eight seconds left or however many it was,
(46:41):
this will take it under twenty. I mean, that's the
easiest math we can do under twenty seconds. Okay, that's
I mean, that's that's big. So then they have very
little room to work with, you know, in that in
that time, they basically have three plays and anything in bounds,
you know, they've got to take their final time out.
(47:02):
Game is oh blah blah blah. So yeah, I mean,
I get it, I guess from that aspect of things.
But you know, when you're asking you your players to
do something and then they don't execute, whose fault is that?
(47:25):
And again I'm not trying to absolve the player. I'm
not trying to absolve the coaches. I'm just genuinely asking like, hey,
this is what we want to do, but it's not
working or we don't do it well. You know, you
talked about the offensive focus, especially twelve thirteen, running gap scheme,
(47:45):
running plays, you know, doing these different things. It's not working.
You know, we can we can debate on why, but
it's just not working. So do you just continue to
do it because that's what you do?
Speaker 5 (48:05):
Or do do good coaches? Do good teams.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
Adapt and and change how they do it because you
know it's not working. And I think that would be
where I would fire somebody. Does that make sense, like,
hey Drew, this isn't working, well, this is what we do. Okay,
then you're an idiot and we need to move on.
Like but but if it's like, hey, this isn't working. Okay,
(48:32):
you know we're four games in, this hasn't worked. We're
two and two, so it's not like you know, it's yeah,
we we missed a win or two. They're a good
chance we could before. No, but you know, it is
what it is, and and let's be honest. The the
injury to James was kind of the nail in the
coffin of what they wanted to do. But as you
(48:56):
so adequately pointed out, like, Okay, that's a short week.
We're not going to just make changes on a short week, right,
Like we're not just going to be like, all right,
we don't run twelve and thirteen personnel at all. We're
not going to run these run schemes anymore. Like now
it's like, okay, you know, we'll start to change things.
(49:17):
You know, we'll go heavier ten to eleven personnel than
we have all season, but we can't just you know,
change everything at once.
Speaker 5 (49:25):
You'll see more of a change this week.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
You'll see you know, as the week's unfold, especially you
know now that you have some time.
Speaker 5 (49:32):
So if Drew was basically like.
Speaker 4 (49:37):
Nope, not changing, then I think you make you have
to write because that's just arrogance at that point. This
is what we do, this is who we are, well
who you are boring as hell and not working. So
let's you know, let's try something different. But if it,
I mean, you know, I think your point, my point,
(50:00):
our point has kind of been like is it really
the offensive coach? Like and that's not to absolve Petsaing
from everything. That's just a question that has to be asked, right,
like is it really the offensive coach or is this
what the defensive head coach wants? And he's just doing
(50:24):
what he's told and.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Well and and agen and a Gannon's really good about that,
Like he falls on the sword. Is like, I'm never
gonna have problem with the offensive plane calling because I
know what plays are being called. Like he's saying, he's
saying that he's building the game plan offensively. This isn't.
This isn't like when Cliff Kingsbury basically let Vance Joseph
(50:50):
on his own right exactly, you're you're the defensive head coach,
like Cliff was the head coach, but Fance was the
defensive head coach. And while there was some communication that
basically Sliff didn't mess with Vance at all, let him
do his thing. Gan doesn't new that like Nick and
(51:10):
Drew both work closely with him in terms of their
goals offensively defensively, So Drew's doing that. The one thing
one change I want to I want to see is
within their scheme, within what they do, find ways to
get Marv the ball more easily early in the game.
(51:31):
It's it is an old adage, and he's the problem
is he's not mouthy like other receivers. But he has
the same type of body language on the field, doesn't
he like? He does the same type of like. He
doesn't sell out every play and itoks like he's engaged.
(51:51):
He he does white, he does number one wide receiver
things where when he's not targeted early on, his body
language changes on the field. He loafes through some routes.
He's he's not one hundred percent all the time. You
know what fixes that? Getting guys getting getting guys like
Marv the ball early and often giving him opportunities. You know,
(52:12):
give him in a quick wide receiver screen in one.
They used to do that with fits all the time.
But you do that with your with your playmakers early,
they're gonna feel warmed up and it opens things up
immensely during the game. So you throw them a little
seven round out, uh seven yard out. You throw them
a quick slant you quote, you do you do for
(52:33):
him one of those wide receiver screens that are designed
for someone else. Just give him the ball a couple
of times, let him do things and then then then
you start through and going after him. You start targeting
him in those more in the tricky routes that things
down the field, which help not only you need you
need mar selling out those routes early on, even down
the field to open things underneath. It's not just getting
(52:55):
him his catches, but he needs to be engaged so
that his routes are true to options for the opposing defense.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
Yeah, and you need him to be a big play guy,
and that's something that we've seen capable obviously. The sixteen
yard touchdown, massive play and game, huge moment for the team,
something that I think everybody kind of involved needed, right,
Like everybody was like, oh god, that was that was nice.
(53:24):
We need all needed to see that. That's what we've
been waiting for. But I mean, overall, like you said, man,
it just it just comes down to having a better
balance and a better approach of like, yeah, we're running
or we want to be a run first team, but
we've invested heavily, heavily and improving this this passing game.
(53:52):
So let's do that. Let's let's show that a little
bit and and you know, hopefully that does happen. Quite frankly,
I'd like to get the ball, and I know people
are gonna be like this, they get the ball to
him a lot. I'd like to get the ball to
Trey McBride in space a little more like let him.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
It's like you get on those tight end screens once
he gets rolling. Oh my gosh, like in traffic too,
because those screenplays they're messy. They're they're messy down the
field because you've got the other guys around and Tray's
a guy. Oh my goodness. Now, granted you get him
in space in the red zone, he gets tackled. That's
(54:34):
just how it goes.
Speaker 5 (54:36):
I don't know. I still don't understand that.
Speaker 3 (54:39):
He's hurtling guys. He's side stepping guys. But but inside
the ten it's like shoe stream tackle. But no, those
the wide receiver screens he's really good at because he
moves really well. Yes, and I think there's one thing
I maybe you agree at this point, we just got
to we got to make this change. It's time for
Will Hernandez. It's time for and that sucks because like
(55:06):
he looks so good all off seat and then but
during the game he's the case in point. What was
the game that the first sack that they gave up
to Seattle, uh in wo Sue got the sack and
it was Trey Benson and Isaiah Adams. They had two
guys to block one guy and in Nuosu just sidestepped
them both untouched and got to Kyler. I don't know
(55:28):
how that happens, but that's not supposed to happen, and
it's time we need Will back and hopefully he's Hopefully
he's a semblance of the Will Hernandez that he's then
he's been because it's not been good. Now as for
moving off of Evan Brown, some people's I've seen peoples
they put Beach and like Beach's ever played guard.
Speaker 4 (55:48):
And by the way, each has been terrible in his
very limited but terrible in his playing time.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
In fairness, he's an old left tackle, no he and.
Speaker 4 (56:01):
That's the thing he very much is. And he had
to play against uh Nick Bosa for part of a
game and then Mikeil Williams for a little bit. And
so those are good, you know, like you said, those
are good pass rushers. But yeah, I mean he looked
he did not look great in that game. Yeah, So
I mean those are those are changes that need to
(56:24):
be made. Let me ask you this, Jessin obviously with
the with the benefit of hindsight, we can make this statement.
But do you think with how they wanted to do things,
the way the running back room was built, and the
(56:46):
fact that neither guy played seventeen games, which is not
uncommon for running backs by the way, but neither guy
was available for seventeen games, that it was not smart
to just completely ignore the running.
Speaker 5 (57:00):
Back position this offseason.
Speaker 4 (57:01):
And we could talk about the entire offense, but I'm
specifically asking about the running back based on and obviously
nobody expects James Connor you know, career potentially to end.
But I mean Benson in a part time role, only
stayed healthy for thirteen games last year. I think James
(57:24):
was thirteen or fourteen, I don't remember off the top
of my head. Like, doesn't a day three running back
at that point make sense?
Speaker 5 (57:33):
Because you're like.
Speaker 4 (57:35):
You you've you know, expounded on this a number of times,
but you know what you have in de Marcado and
Michael Carter Bam Knight was a bit of a revelation,
but it's not like he's doing anything in the game, right,
So you know what you have in de Marcado and
in Michael Carter.
Speaker 3 (57:53):
Maybe that's that's why, because they knew they had a
guy like Michael Carter as number four five.
Speaker 5 (58:01):
So so.
Speaker 4 (58:03):
With so then you're thinking, like, oh, if if anything
happens to Connor long term, we know we're gonna have
to change the offensive, the run, the running scheme a
little bit. And now we have Benson and Carter in
those roles as opposed to you know, I mean, that's
just kind of my thought process is one, you know,
(58:23):
the more we get into the Benson era, he's not
he's not necessarily a compliment to James Connor as much
as he is kind of like a counterpoint to Connor,
right like, oh, you've got the rugged, uh you know,
wear them down type, and then you've got the explosive
(58:46):
Like get him outside. Yes he's big and physical, but
let him get get vertical and make plays.
Speaker 5 (58:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (58:54):
I just I was thinking about that the other day
because I'm just like, I'm like, man, obviously it's hindsight,
but if you wanted to run the ball a lot,
you definitely didn't like make it seem like that this
offseason by basically just running everything back and saying like,
(59:14):
we'll see if Isaiah Adams is good enough and kind
of going with that philosophy, and now you're talking about it.
You know, obviously Adams is one of the bigger issues.
He might be the worst guard in the NFL right now.
And that's not hyperbole, that's just the reality. He's not
playing well what he was supposed to be great at.
He's really really struggling at, which is run blocking. So
(59:40):
like you said, hopefully Will Hernandez is eighty percent of
what he was last year when he was, you know,
wrecking people and playing at a high level. Man they
need it.
Speaker 3 (59:51):
Do they do? And with that, we'll wrap this edition
of the Rises here at podcast Bestar Cardinals Talcle. We've
got two more shows coming this week. I will have
Mike Mark Mahalco from from Titan's Wire. Is he Well?
I'll record that next and then later in the week
seth then I will do our previous show and then
this feels like we'll talk more about that on Friday.
This should be a get well gained for the Cardinals
(01:00:14):
three set and then to kind of reevaluate before they
hit a tougher part of the schedule. But until then,
that's seth Cox, I'm just rude. Thanks for listening. As always,
we'll be back against soone.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitch Your Radio, Audio Boom,
or many other podcast platforms so shows are delivered directly
to your mobile device. Please give the show a five
star radi and always support the sponsors who support the show.
Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
We'll be back.
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Soon for the best hour of cardinals talk on the web,
Rise up Red, c b Red Sea Red, and of
course Rise Up Sea.
Speaker 6 (01:00:52):
Red Lives, It.
Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Lives, It Lives, It Lives It
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