March 19, 2025 • 59 mins
Jess and Seth talk about two free agent moves the Cardinals made after their last show and what they mean. They talk about the new mock drafts from Mel Kiper and Daniel Jeremiah in terms of the Cardinals and certain players, and then talk about what positions are likely now the priority for the Cardinals entering the NFL draft next month.
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast, all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hells are the Cardinals fans and welcome to the latest
edition of the Rise of SIAD podcast. If us are
Cardinals Talk on the Web, I'm your Hostess Root from
cardswire dot com, the USA Today NFL wireside, covering of course,
the Ears and the Cardinals. Recording not at home as
I'm out in Texas visiting my oldest daughter, but that
doesn't matter for recording, it's the Internet. Joining me is
is Seth Cox from Avenge of the Birds dot com.
(00:55):
As we are in the second week of NFL Free Agency,
Episode six four eight. Seth, it was a busy week
last week, but things have come have slowed down significantly,
have they for both the Cardinals and the rest of
the NFL.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, it's been an interesting week just in general. I
mean it was fast and furious and then it slowed
to a drip basically, right, like we get one or
two little things a day, but nothing extraordinary. Nothing otherworldly.
(01:32):
Mostly now it's you know, focused time on the NFL
Draft and something we'll discuss on today's show, you know,
and kind of putting the pieces together of Okay, free
agencies over your team has done X and Y. Now,
how does the draft factor into Z in that process?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, and there there are two moves that the Cardinals
made that we did not get to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
They are little ones. And you know, one of the.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Things that that in fact, Howard balls Are my my
other writer over at cards Wire noted is that the contract,
the contract. He usually gets those contracts fairly quickly after
they're signed. Those are a very they're crawling right now.
They're crawling right now. They're not getting that. He's still
(02:21):
waiting on a few of them and normally he rips
those out fairly quickly, and it seems like the league
office is taking their time. We know that there's there's
a couple of there's a couple of moves around the
NFL that everyone's still waiting for. And that's I think
that and that that will impact more than anything mock
drafts moving forward, would be the decision of Aaron Rodgers,
(02:42):
the decision of Russell Wilson, particularly especially Aaron Rodgers, because
that will we can then start really sort of projecting
which teams at the top of the draft are going
to go with quarterbacks, don't you think?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah? And it's interesting to think that that's Steelers Giants situation.
It's all kind of in limbo until Aaron Rodgers gets
back from his latest ayahuasca journey. And so, you know,
it's it's interesting because this is this is you know,
(03:17):
another off season of this, but it's also interesting in
that there's it just you know, it goes to something
you and I talk about quite often, what is your plan?
And you know, we've we've long said that when people
throw out ideas of like hey just trade Kyler, where
(03:43):
we don't necessarily go yeah, that's a great idea or no,
you're an idiot, Like but we go, okay, what's your plan?
And and you know, more often than not they go, well,
you know, they'll figure something like you can go get
Sam Darnold for you know, one hundred million, one hundred
and twenty million or whatever, and it's like, okay, so
(04:04):
are you. And so that's the thing is like you
look at the you look at the Steelers, you look
at the Giants and you go, is is this the
way you want to go about your off seasons? Because
that's the thing is like if you don't have a quarterback,
then you're just constantly searching for a quarterback. And and
(04:25):
we've you know, been part of that process too for
the Arizona Cardinals, and and you know it's not any
fun either, Like there's no, that's not a fun way
to go about your off season. And so, like you said,
until those got until those dominoes faults, and not that
(04:45):
those dominoes would preclude anybody from drafting a quarterback, but
it changes the way you attack it correct Like you
don't if you're if you're the Giants and you end
up signing Aaron Rodgers, you go, Okay, if we get
if we have cam Ward as a ten and should
(05:07):
or Sanders is a seven and a half, we don't
have to draft should or Sanders at wherever they're drafting
on it is it three? I don't. Yeah, so you
know we don't have to do that. But if we
don't have that, it doesn't really matter what our grades
are on these guys. We just have to get somebody
in that's not a four right, And so that's yes,
(05:30):
that is you know what it comes down to, and
we joke about it, but the reality is is like
when you move on or make decisions or that quarterback position,
that needs to be the thought process. And and you know,
one of the things that we try to do is
from an intelligent standpoint, it say like would JG and
(05:53):
Monty like, would they be able to go to Michael
Bidwell and be like, hey, this is our plan moving
forward or we're going to be awful next year because
we're we want to move on from Kyler and we
might be able to get Aaron Rodgers. If not, you know,
we might draft somebody on Day two, but we'll go
forward with Jacoby Brissett, you know, the same guy that
(06:16):
just won one game last year. We'll go forward or
Clayton or whatever, you know. And so that's that is
the whole thing. And so, like you said, until those
dominoes fall, we'll continue to see you know, Shador Sanders,
We'll continue to see these mock drafts that have Jackson
Dark going at twenty two or whatever the still drafting.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Or number nine, which was holy cow, holy cow, the
Jackson Dark go into the I think of is that
Kuiper's at number nine, and we'll talk We're going to
talk about the mac Mock Draft, but let's start. Let's
start kind of talking about the two minor moves that
the Cardinals made after our last show.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Two guys, truth is, you probably haven't heard of.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Now if you follow what the Cardinals have been doing,
you probably heard the transactions. The Cardinals landed former Bears
and Seahawks offensive lineman Jake Kerran and then also former
Los Angeles Chargers and Dallas Cowboys receivers Simmi Fajoco, two
(07:22):
guys that probably.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Get minimum contracts. Kerran played ten games and.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Started two for the for the Bears last year, started
a couple of games at guard. He's started a handful
of games at tackle as well. He played three years
for the for the Seahawks. He's a big dude, well
long dude, six six three sixteen. I'm gonna be twenty eight,
twenty seven years old, Like I don't see that move,
(07:53):
like and he comes from what that terrible Bears offensive
line and you look at that even like Cardinals kind
of still need a starting right guard when they made
that room move, or like will that better not be
their starter.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Right and you know, like you said, last year played
two hundred and sixty snaps on the offensive line, two
hundred and thirty nine left guard, twenty one at right tackle.
The year before that he played two hundred ninety four snaps,
six at right guard to a hundred and eighty eight
(08:28):
at right tackle. So to your point, you go, where
does this guy fit? I mean, he's been mostly a
backup right guard and then a starting swing tackle, which
I don't know how that works. From being completely honest.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I wonder if if if basically he's slated to be
like this year's Tristan Cologne, though Cologne was more guard center.
I did see him, We did se him in pat
in training camp to take a few tackle reps out
of necessity, or I think he might have been at
tackle during one of the preseason games too, which was
fun that I'm guessing that would kind of be the
(09:12):
role that we'd had. And I kind of want to
see his contract, want to see how much it is
and two how much is guaranteed, because that will kind
of tell you.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
How much they like him.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Right, Yeah, I mean, you look at it. I mean,
even going back, PFF's great for charting. And you know
he in the preseason. For instance, last year, so twenty four,
he played one and fifty six snaps in the preseason,
all at right tackle. So and then you know the
(09:53):
year before that he played twelve at right guard in
one hundred and twenty one at right tackle. So basically,
what that's telling you is he's a right tackle that
can fold into guard, that can step in at left
tackle in a super pinch right like or left guard. Sorry,
in a super pinch like. It's not ideal, but he's
(10:15):
mostly a tackle that can fold into guard. He's been
mostly on the right side of the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Would you say, would you say that this lends itself
to believe that maybe Jonah Williams injury is serious enough
that he won't be able to start the season, which
hastened the signing for Kelvin Beacham to be the starter
to then make current slash Christian Jones more the backup.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, or you know, they're they're going in with the
idea and this is always how it should go. I
won't say how it does go, but how it should
go in theory is they're going, Hey, we want Christian
Jones to be the starter. But we're about a guy
that spent most of the season on entered reserve and
then you know, played minimally when he came back, so
(11:07):
he may not be ready. And if he's not ready
to start, he's gonna get all the reps and he's
gonna do everything in practice, and then Jake Curran will
be active on game days over Christian Jones. Right, Like,
that's typically how that goes, because they're going to say
to themselves like, we don't want to put him in
a position to blow his potential that we see or
(11:32):
that we like.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And then and then number two, they're trying to win
games this year, so they don't want recked. They don't
want to think one's it's one thing when you have
like a twenty twenty three season, it's completely different when
in twenty twenty five you're trying to win games. And
so unless he is at least stable, consistent, you don't
(11:55):
want to put him out there where you're gonna get
your quarterback killed.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
But also think about this, just if he's not the
backup right tackle, he's the backup right guard. So in
an essence, you're basically saying, like, hey, we've got this
guy that can do either. And like you said, we
don't have his contract numbers yet, they're they're you know,
leaking out. I don't even know, like what's happening with it,
(12:19):
but you're saying basically like, hey, this is our break
in case of emergency plan if this guy can't go,
and if not, he's a body for the summer for
everything else until Jonah's back and then and then we're
good to go. And also it's like one of those
(12:40):
things too, it's like, hey, if we don't get you know,
and no insight, no nothing to throw a name out there, like, hey,
if we don't get Josh Simmons at the pick we
want him at and we don't love anybody else on
day two, then we got this guy in house that
we're ready to go. Like I just that's how I
look at the whole signing.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Good Now, the the guy that I actually think is
a an intriguing upside signing and that Semi Fajoco uh
six four two fifteen receiver played. I was drafted by
the Cowboys. I think it was a fifth round pick.
Played last season. It might have been the last two
(13:23):
seasons for the La Chargers.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Last two seasons and fast.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Like at the combine he was a sub four four
five he was four four four it, you know at
six six, I mean six' four.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
That's that's really really good.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
And I like he's another guy that's been to Stanford
till now. They've got some Stanford guys in in Fojoco
and Michael Wilson and Elijah Higgins to go with that,
their receivers coach of Drew Turel, who is a Stanford guy.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I'm really intrigued.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
With this move because he doesn't have a lot of production.
He had six catches for one hundred and six yards,
but that's a that's a whopping seventeen point seven yards
per catch, and he's played a lot on special teams.
But I like the potential for this because I'm assuming
(14:20):
he's played most I haven't looked at the at the
at the at the snap reps. He's played primarily outside,
hasn't he.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
So he played forty three snaps in the slot last year,
one hundred and ninety one out wide. So either X
or Z. So yeah, I mean, so it's a it's
a basically a five to one snap outside the inside ratio,
you know, one of the things that you look at
(14:51):
for him is he's a big body guy that that
works hard in the wrung game. He's not a guy
that you're gonna expect my from I mean seven or sorry,
not seven snaps. He you know, a guy that in
(15:14):
his time you're talking about seven snaps as as a rookie,
thirty six his second year. And then what's been really interesting,
Jess is you know, obviously last year was Jim Harbob right,
so not a shock. He was about a one to one,
you know, a one to one passed to run snap
(15:36):
ratio in his two hundred and forty four snaps. But
the year before so I think that was still Brandon Staley. Correct, Yeah,
twenty three snaps played. He blocked for fourteen of those
snaps and only went out for routes nine times.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Interesting, so is he's Zach Pascal then, right, but a younger.
And it's interesting because I actually, you know, I didn't
run like I ran across his TikTok where he was
saying goodbye. It was his personal it was just on
my for you page and he was saying he kind
of addressed why he's leading LA and he has a
(16:14):
little bit of a following out there and people are saying, oh,
why are you leaving la He said, he you know,
it makes it sound like there's some guaranteed money because
he's got it. He said, he's got to take care
of his family and that usually it that's tied into money,
and he said the Cardinals really wanted him. I'm interested
in seeing what type of contract it is, if it's
like a two and a quarter million type deal.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
But it's kind of like what that like what Zach
Paskal got.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
But I actually kind of like the upside of this
move because not only is he fast, he's really quick.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Uh that that three cone that.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
He had six seven eight, that's that's incredible for his size,
which gives him the ability to move in and out
of spaces. And the Cardinals like long receivers, and what
we saw last year was a move away from Greg
dortch As playing in the slot, and they played a
lot more Marv inside and a lot more Michael Wilson inside.
(17:10):
And so this gives you some and Zay Jones returns.
We talked about him where he can play on the outside.
The Zay Jones and the Fojoco moves. I like as
low cost, high potential type of additions. I'm not saying
folks are going to go off for eight hundred yards,
but you get three hundred yards for him on twenty catches,
(17:33):
that's that's a good that's a really good start. And
if you get you know, fifty catches for six to
eight hundred yards from from Zay Jones, also very very
good production, especially if you can get Michael Wilson either
to up his production about eight hundred yards, or if you,
(17:54):
like I said, you want a guy you get if
you've got two thousand yard guides in Marvin Trey McBride,
want another guy that can get eight hundred or two
that can get six hundred plus, and then if you
add kind of big play with with theohoko with his
athletic says, I'm really intrigued by this move.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, it would be interesting to see, like even simply
as like what the guaranteed money is and if he
makes the roster type thing that that's the nice thing
about you know, typically when we do this part of
the show, right, we go, oh, this is what we know.
This is a little more fun in the sense that
we're talking just you know, kind of speculating because we
(18:36):
don't have the numbers yet, and so you know, you'll
have to you'll have to wait and see what these
number come out, and then they'll tell us more of
a story about oh, okay, this is what you know
because like we were talking last week. I don't know
if we talked about this on the air, right, but
you know, if if they were to draft, say Kenneth Grant,
(18:58):
you know, at sixteen, that's a pretty full room already,
and then adding adding a rookie, right, you look at
it and you go from a just from a salary
structure standpoint, like who makes the most sense to cut
and you're like, well, probably Aldre Collier because he's got
the least amount of guaranteed money. So you know, the
same thing with Kurran Fajoku, like those guys. When we
(19:20):
get those numbers, it tells us, It tells us more
of the story like where are they at? And even
even you know, and I doubt either of them do,
but even say like a two million dollar salary guarantee,
it doesn't mean much in that case.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
But it does mean like we had Chris Moore last year,
and they did have some guarantees for him, and he
initially made actually he was on the practice squad initially,
but he was still getting that money and got elevated
a couple of times. So it's you know, that's the
part where we're missing. But I will say that the
pohoco based on the lack of another, which is an
(20:00):
They're one of the interesting things some of these bigger
named older receivers, Keenan Allen, Amari Cooper, these guys are
still out there available.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Just look what freakin' and Cooper Cup got and and
you know, I think, and I could be wrong, I'm
double checking my numbers here, but I think Keenan Allen
was slightly more productive last year than than Cup seven
seven forty four, seven seventy Sorry, so and then what
(20:30):
did you don't think Cup put up over seven hundred
lat year?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I think he was.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I think he was at about six seven oh, he
was seven sixty seven seven ten.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
So right around the same. So like that's I mean,
you're literally saying, like, hey, this is a guy that's
like do people don't want to pay twelve fifteen million
dollars for these guys? And don't get me wrong, like
just and I are not saying Simmi Fajoku Orse Jones
are at all on the same level as as Keenan
(21:01):
Allen or Cooper Cup. But also their combined salary is
a third, if not you know, a fourth of what
you're gonna pay Cooper Cup or you know or likely
Keenan Allen at this point. Like that's that's the hard
thing with all of that, and so you know, it
(21:22):
doesn't preclude you from making moves, especially when you look
at it right, just like you go through all their
moves that they made. Evan Brown two year deal, right,
Zay Jones sound one year deal, Jacoby Brissett two year deal, LJ.
Collier one year deal, Josh Sweat four year deal, a
Keen Davis gay th Or two year deal, Jake Kurrn
one year deal, right, MIKEL. Walker one year deal, Dalvin
(21:44):
Thomlinson two year deal, and then simme a one year deal.
So like it they tell you, like in the contracts
for the most part, like, hey, Dalvin Thomlinson, he's a
guy that we're counting on obviously, Josh Sweat, Evan Brown,
a guy like Jake Curran. It's like, hey, if he
makes the roster, that's great. But that from anything else, like,
(22:08):
we're not expecting anything, right, so you know what they do.
It tells the story of what their expectation is. And
if you get anything more, you just chock it up
as a win.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Coming next to the Rise of Serret podcast, best Our
Cardinal's talk on the webit's move on a couple of
month drafts that came out this week.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Let's react to him.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
That's coming next in Rise, he read We're back on
the Rise of Serret podcast, best Our Cardinal's talk on
the web. With the first week of free agency in
the books, that means we got the two big names
releasing new mock drafts. One from ESPN's Milk Kiper and
then one from the NFL Networks NFL Media is Daniel Jeremiah.
(22:46):
And it's interesting because both project something interesting for the Cardinals.
On Kuipers, it is perhaps the surprise, and that is
Will Johnson Michigan cornerback falls all the way to sixteenth.
(23:07):
And what Kuyper wrote is that Johnson's tenth on his board,
and I've seen projections where he goes top ten, nearly
top five, and so this was a case.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think as he's putting the board together.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
It's not necessarily a need for the Cardinals because we
do like where the cornerback room is. You've got Sean
Murphy Bunting. I know people don't love him. They think
that was a terrible signing. He actually had a decent Yeah,
they got Starling Thomas, he's all right, You've got Max Melton,
second round pick last year. They're kind of counting on
(23:41):
to grow. And then you've got Garrett Williams inside. Sure
you could add Will Johnson to that group and I
wouldn't preclude them if Will Johnson's on the board.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
He does.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
He does offer size. He's nearly six foot two. We
don't know what his long speed is. That he didn't
run at the combine with the toe injury and not
going to be at his pro day because he just
entered his hamstring. So that is kind of a concern
because over the last in the last nine months, he's
had a shoulder injury. He had I guess what he
(24:13):
would call turf toe because it was a toe injury,
and he talked about having torn ligaments when that's kind
of a turf toe thing, and.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Then recently a hamstring.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I know you have said I don't know, it's on
the air or off the air between the group checks
that we have that if Johnson were available, you have
no problem with it. I'm starting to worry a little
bit based on the number of injuries he's had over
the last year.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, I mean foot stuff, ankle stuff, knee stuff. We
always talked about it, right Like, It's definitely position dependent.
You know. My concern is always with bigger guys that
live off explosive explosiveness, that that they won't be able
(25:00):
to get back into that type of play. I have
less concern typically about guys like Johnson things like that. So,
you know, the the biggest the biggest thing to me
(25:21):
is that he continues to have like or or pick
up nagging lower body injury. So it's like, you know,
he had the foot, toe whatever you want to call it,
and then that's led to hamstring issues, right like, So
(25:41):
to me, that's where the red flag is is like
is he not able to rehab consistently? Is he not
rehabbing correctly? And then it's leading to issues on other
things like those are obviously questions that we don't have
answers to, right Like, you know, a singular, a single
injury or things of that nature are not a big
(26:03):
deal since catastrophic stuff that you know, we saw with
like Marshawn Lattimore. Yeah, things like that. But that is
that is the one thing to watch about will Johnson
is that, you know, why is he struggling to come
back from this injury. Obviously we don't know what the
(26:23):
extent of the injury was. And now he's got a
hamstring that's going to hold him out of the pro
day that was supposed to be Friday.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, it's supposed to be this week on Friday.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So we're recording on Tuesday, and you know, it was
just announced i think today or yesterday that he's not
going to participate with the hamstring. Those are the little
like things to watch obviously, you know, Garrett Williams for instance,
a cl like a cls acls acls like. It's a
different thing for an athlete that isn't playing at a
(26:53):
heavyweight that isn't uh you know, not that they're not explosive,
but they're not dependent on explosiveness off the line of
scrimmage and things like that, you know, And so that's
how I look at that a little different. But but
Johnson's an alpha man, like he would be the guy
that comes in and he's all of a sudden kind
(27:16):
of the guy in the room. You know, he's not
the athlete that like a sauce gardener is, but same
type of mentality, same type of bill for the game
and understanding. And it's interesting because you know, going into
this year he was considered by many to be kind
of a top five lock and maybe even Corner like,
(27:41):
you know, pure corner one. You know, you have the
Trumps Hunter situation, and now between the the you know,
being banged up, obviously Michigan having a down year, he's
looked at more in that like he said, like that
ten to twenty range, and it just feels like we're
(28:01):
you know, I hate you always hate throwing names out
there right like and stuff like that, but when you're
talking about a guy that fell that probably shouldn't have
and you know, obviously hindsight's twenty twenty and things of
that nature. But there is some like Durell Reevis stuff there.
(28:23):
Right Like Revis went in the mid mid teens, you know,
he was looked at. He was looked at through the
lens of like is the athletic enough and things of
that nature. So I'm not saying that it's a perfect
one to one in comparison, but just the lead up
to the draft seems to be similar. And he has
(28:45):
those he has the dynamic about him that he could
be something that is is special in that way, and.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
That would be I mean, and to get a guy
like that, you'd make could work. You can never have
enough guys who can cover well.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
And if like if you you could at some point
trade Sean Murphy buttoning he's got one hundred percent of
his salar guaranteed this year at seven point seven million dollars,
but a serviceable cornerback especially it could be a mid
season move. You know, Star Thomas, you could easily move
(29:26):
him to the bench that I don't think you'd have
a problem with that. And then kind of like how
they how they worked both Max Meltain and Star Thomas together,
you could do that between Max and Johnson or even
Murphy Bunting and Johnson kind of going with a four
(29:46):
man corner rotation that did last year, and that would
be one hundred percent all right, but it would it
would be a mild surprise based on everything that we've seen,
because it still feels like, and we're gonna talk about
this later in the show, sort of like everything has
been all about edge defensive line, offensive line, or even
just edge defensive line, and they filled that, and that'll
(30:10):
kind of lead us to the other one, and that's
Daniel Jeremiah's mock draft where the Cardinals actually pass on
a couple of notable pass rushers that go a little
bit after them. Mike Green, the kid out of Marshall
seventeen sacks on the year, they pass on him. He
(30:30):
goes number seventeen. They pass, and I wouldn't necessarily call
it a pass on him, but Donna Donnavan Aziraku goes
number nineteen to Boston College, the two super productive pass rushers,
and instead the Cardinals and instead of going and this
is going with like Akelvin Banks on the offensive line,
(30:52):
instead of going with the Tyler Booker on the offensive line,
which strangely, Tyler Booker doesn't go in the first round
of this mock draft, even though I think DJ has
him as a top ten ranked player, And the Cardinals.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Go with Gray Zabel interior, who play who's played all over.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
The offensive line, played tackle last year because he was
the very best that they had in North Dakota State.
But he's played all over the line, and he could,
like viably, he could jump in right in and be
a starting right guard for them. The issue being is
that the best option for them at number sixteen when
you've got Tyler Booker on the board, especially if you're
(31:32):
looking offensive line, Tyler Booker still on the board, you
could go Kelvin Banks on the board. It appears that
Josh Simmons is still on the board. It feels like
I think there would be a long shot for the
Cardinals to go that route over a Booker, over a Simmons,
(31:55):
over a Kelvin Banks.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I love Zabel. I think he's going to be a
fantast astic player. So I don't really have an issue
with it. My issue becomes it this feels more like
a knee pick, right.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that is the one spot where you're like, eh,
they need a starter.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah and so and so you just kind of pencil
in I guess, right, And here's what I'll say. DJ
has been very consistent with able. He had Zabel going
eighteen in the previous draft, so it's not like he
like took him from you know, the fifties or whatever.
Into the first round. Uh so yeah, I'm going eighteen
(32:36):
to the Seahawks in the last draft, and then in
his first one, see, he did not have him in
the first round. So you know, you look at it,
you go, okay, well, you know he's been consistent with
where the whereabouts he puts Zabel in his you know,
(32:57):
draft the last two at least, so he's hearing those
type of things, right, Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
It sounds like that there are teams that really like him.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
And so that you know, that begs the question are
the Cardinals going to be one of those teams?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
It would be an interesting departure from the two drafts
that we have based on Monte Austin for it. Right,
So in his two drafts, he's not taken a single
FCS player.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And big big program so Hio like in the first round,
Ohio State, Ohio State, Missouri, those are big time programs.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Right, and even in the second rounds. I mean we're
talking Big ten with Rutgers, right, We're talking LSU in
the third round. We're talking Syracuse, Florida State, like Illinois, Stanford.
You know, it's not like it's not like in No
shade obviously, but it's not like we're talking about Tulsa.
Colorado State is their top players right, They're they're going
(34:01):
big program, So it would be a it'd be a
departure for sure to see that happen. Doesn't mean it can't,
doesn't mean it won't. Just would be a very big
change from what we've seen in the two Monty drafts,
because not only would be the again the first time
they take an FCS player, but they do so with
(34:23):
a top twenty pick. That would be again, I love
the player. I think it would be a good fit.
He can, you know, slot in at redguard from day one,
and you look at it with with the healthy General Williams,
you know, you say, okay, well we got our offensive
line set. But at the same time, it does feel
a little rich.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Do you if you're looking at offensive line, if Josh Simmons,
Kellen Banks, Tyler Booker all on the board, do you
take Zabel over any of those guys.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
No, Obviously Simmons would be about the medicals if they
check out. I think I think Simmons would be the
ideal guy because he's a guy that's played left tackle,
he's played right tackle. You know, he gives them some flexibility,
(35:17):
and he would be a guy that you know, has
familiarity with obviously the coach and things of that nature.
Here's what I'll say. If they were to do this
and they take Zabel over Simmons or or Donovan Jackson
or any of the other guy's book or Banks, whatever,
it would speak to what the new line coach is thinking, right,
(35:42):
because if they have their if they have their pick.
If if you say that, only Will Campbell and the
was it membuh are off the board, and so you
take Gray's Abel, I think a correct me if you disagree.
But I think we would tend to think like, oh,
(36:06):
Bride must have been like no, I don't want Simmons
and not not not I don't want but like, hey,
I don't think the knees right or you know, he
would make sense, you know, it would be more it
would be more like telling to us the one name
that I wanted to bring up that's not an offensive
lineman that I've seen. I don't know what the word is, like,
(36:29):
I don't know confusion or you know, maybe disputing or
however you want to say it about. Is Jeha Campbell? Right?
So a guy that you and I both like a
lot uh impressed with his size, length, speed, gives you
a little bit of everything. Can be a guy that
(36:54):
that plays on the edge at times, can be a
guy that's your you know, inside back or been fantastic
doing both. In a really versatile player that it does
have a singular position but can be flexible. So I
know fans are like, oh, we don't want another guy
that doesn't have a No. Yeah, he's an off ball
linebacker that can play off the edge if needed. I've
(37:19):
seen him like all over the place, so you know,
for instance, in this one, Daniel Jeremiah has him going
top ten, which would be kind of like an insane
thing for a guy that if you look at him
as just an off ball backer, right like, yeah, top
ten we've talked about before. If you do that, like
(37:42):
I mean, you gotta be Roquan Smith, right like you
got to be that Simmons right right exactly, you know.
And so then you look at at Kuiper and and
Kiper has him going after the Cardinals. So is there
(38:03):
I mean, obviously there's always you know, we could throw
out Jackson, Dart, you, we can throw out you know,
all these names, right but is there a bigger disconnect
between a guy and where he's gonna fit and go.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
That's and I think, you know, I think a lot
of it has to do is the belief or the
value that a number of the teams in the NFL
put at that particular position. Like you look at the
Philadelphia Eagles, who haven't spent a first round pick on
off the ballpacker since what nineteen ninety four? I think
is what I heard on Kuiper's podcast a few weeks ago. Yeah,
(38:39):
to see him go from top ten to middle of
the second round is an incredible disparity. And I know
Kuyper really really likes Campbell in terms of his ability,
and I wouldn't mind. I would kind of like him
in Arizona. But at the same time, I think from
(38:59):
what we know about Jonathan Gannon and I think as
well for Manty Austin Ford as they they don't put
first round value on the position even when the talent
is great.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, and that makes sense to me, you know, I
think he's a guy that fits. I mean, another guy
that is another intriguing just watching where he fits is
like the kid out of U of a right tep
MC McMillan. Yeah, you know, we've seen him top ten,
we've seen him top fifteen. Both guys have him going
(39:38):
in the twenties, right.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
So.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
So Kypra has him going to the Broncos and then
Jeremiah has him going to the Charterers. So you know,
both AFC West teams and things of that nature. So
it's really interesting because you know you mentioned Will Johnson, right,
he goes fifteen, I think in and Jeremiah, so they're
(40:04):
right around the same page in terms of value. Mike
Green same thing. Mike Green goes goes at fifteen, and
Kuiper's goes at seventeen. Like you said, the Cardinals pass
on him and Jeremiah, So like those guys are all
kind of thought to be the same. It's just interesting
to see these guys that are top five and some
(40:28):
and then outside the top twenty and others, and like
where do these guys fit in? I mean, John A.
Barren Barn's another one, right, Like Piper's got him going
twenty four to Minnesota. I think Jeremiah's got him going eleven.
Like those are wild variances. And what that's telling me
(40:49):
is a couple things. The first thing is that there's
really not a consensus after cam Wore, Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, right, Like,
those are the three guys in this draft. After that,
it's kind of just pick your flavor what you like.
(41:10):
I mean, we mentioned Mimbo, you know, all of a sudden,
he's O T one. Will Campbell, who's been a steady
force at LSU, had some short arms in the in
the measurements, and now he's you know, nine to ten
in both of these type of exercises. You know, Baron McMillan,
(41:31):
we've seen these guys all over the place, so I think,
and obviously we'll know more in April as the draft
is approaching. But more than anything, it just really tells
you that there's no consensus after those top three guys. Yeah,
and so what's gonna happen is you're gonna have a
(41:54):
lot of opinions on a lot of different guys, and
so it'll be interesting to see if we're able to
cut through the noise and find what the Cardinals want
to do. Obviously, the easiest thing would be, like, hey,
let's just pencil in Josh Simmons, right, like Ohio State
(42:17):
fits what they need be the third highest state guy
they draft in the first round in three years. But
if it ends up not being Simmons, you know where
where's the fit and how do they look at these
guys and go after them?
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Come out next on the Rise of Secret Podcast, Best
Our Cardinals Talk on the Web. We've got one segment
left and we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
The Cardinals and how things have changed in the draft
after free agency. That's kind of next. Ends of seread.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
We're back on the Rise of Secret Podcast, Best Our
Cardinals Talk on the Web. One final segment on this
edition to show up at SO six forty eight and
still talk in NFL Draft, but now kind of where
we for what kind of the top positions where I
think the Cardinals are going to now prioritize. They addressed
the defensive edge by signing Josh Sweat and resigning Baron Browning.
(43:14):
Victor de McCage left, so I think maybe we might
see Jesse Looketta come back.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
I'm still possible on that, but I think they kind
of like the edge group that they have.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
They upgraded the defensive line, big name in Dalvin Tomlinson,
and they added LJ. Collier bringing him back, and so
you've got a really good six man you know, group
for now and everything leading up to free agency. Didn't
it feel like that everything about the draft was either
(43:47):
one to edge defensive line or defensive line edge when
he came to the first round. Didn't it always feel
like that up until free agency started.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Yeah, And I'm not how much that's changed, because as
much as I love the moves, and you know, we
we gave our Josh Sweat grades last week and things
of that nature, the reality becomes it doesn't change what
they need. It just changed changes how urgent it is.
(44:20):
You mentioned corner right, and you had a suit observation
like you really can never have enough, Like you can
always get more corners, and you always need more corners.
The same thing you can say about any of the
front four, three, edge, whatever however you want to look
(44:42):
at it. Defensive line and edge rushers are there's something
you can address every year. And we talked about it
right with with the Eagles, right like they they drafted
Jordan Davis and then what they do the next year, Oh, okay,
we'll draft Jalen Carter and then what they you know,
(45:03):
what they do the next year. So like just because
you get one and even if they're a good one,
it doesn't change how you go about it. And and
I think that is going to be Monty's mantra. Like
elite positions, players that play the defensive line, the offensive line, corner,
(45:31):
you know obviously edge, those will will keep taking swings
at those guys like well, you know, it doesn't necessarily
mean first round, but those are those will be premium
picks yearly. And that's something that you and I talk
about all the time, right, Like the previous regime really
(45:52):
didn't do that, especially at corner and defensive line, right,
Like it was there. It was always like it was
always like, hey, we got these and we liked guys.
Luck you foe to uh goodness, who's the other one
that year that they Richard Lawrence? Richard Lawrence, Right, we
like those guys. It's not that we disliked them or
(46:13):
that they weren't good. I mean Cameron Thomas and my
j Sanders. We liked both of those guys coming out.
But like, when those are the investments you make at
those positions, it's it says more about your your scheme
and your building than it does anything else. I mean,
(46:33):
I mean think about it like let's.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Go let's go back to those first few traps, and
who are those first round picks? Uh, dating back to
when Kime started. It's guard, it's safety, it's off like
you've got to tackle in twenties. Uh, you've got to
tackle in twenty fifteen. You've got off the ball in
twenty six No, you've got defensive tackle twenty sixteen. It's okay,
(46:57):
twenty seventeen, off the ball, twenty eighteen, quarterback, twenty nineteen,
off the ball. No. Twenty nineteen was Kyler. So they
caught two years in a row, then they off the
ball two years in a row.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
They've also got Buddha Baker as a second round pick.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
So they're they're taking guards, they're taking linebackers, they're taking
safeties in the first two rounds. You know, they took
you know, Trey McBride in the second round rather than
taking cornerbacks in pass rushers and tackles.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Right there and even then, like you and like you said,
like you look at it right there, their first draft,
they got one great player, Tyron Matthew, and he was
a safety. Right alex Ocrapher had a very nice career
for a fourth round pick, but it's not like you know,
he was a star. Uh. And then you look at
(47:47):
the next draft, like you said, a safety linebacker type
in d L. Buchannan, Troy Nicholas.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Crib but the only Notre Dame tight end to not
do anything.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Right Kray Martin. And then in their next draft they
get two guys that like have really nice careers, right
DJ Humphries and Marcus Golden. And then and then they
whiff on their net I mean and obviously hindsight twenty twenty,
but the twenty sixteen draft is literally what ended Kimes career.
(48:18):
You know, you can't you can't whiff on your first
round pick, trade away your second round pick for Chandler Jones,
who was obviously fantastic, and then with on the first
corner you took ever, like think think about this just
this is a wild thing to say, but they didn't
(48:41):
take a corner for three entire drafts. That's just like that,
that's complete negligence from the scouting and and and the
roster development department. Like it's one thing if you're like, hey,
(49:03):
we're not gonna take a first round, you know what,
we won't even take a second round. But like to
go three entire drafts and never take a corner. It's
just a wild indictment of out team building. And then
your first one that you take was a converted running
back who ended up you know, you drafted outside of
(49:26):
the top ninety Like that's that, by the way. Then
you didn't even take another one until the sixth round
in twenty eighteen, two years later, and the first top
seventy five corner you took, Hey, guess what he's good?
Like it's almost like it's almost like roster building is
not incredibly difficult if you just take players at premium
(49:51):
positions consistently. But that's another story for another day. So yeah,
I mean that's the thing is like I don't going
back back to the Jeremiah thing, Like I like Grey Zabel,
so I don't want this to come across as great
Zabel slander. Well, based on what we've seen from Manti,
I don't think that Grey Zabel will be the guy
(50:13):
uh that they that they look to bring in because
he's always built from the premium positions.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
First, for me, I'm thinking it felt like, at least
it felt like before free agency, if we had to
look at a positional priority there were a top three,
and that was I think even pretty even one A
one B edge and defensive tackle, and then a clear
(50:43):
number three would have been tackle on the offensive like
tackle slash guard.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
I feel like that.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
And as unsexy as this is, that it might be
if if everything else is even, if you've got three players,
if you've got an offensive line, a defensive lineman, and
an edge guy all rated kind.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Of the same.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
I personally feel like offensive tackle with a little bit
of versatility probably has pushed up to number one, and.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
I think those three are still kind of number one
through three with a bullet And then you look at
like we said, like, hey, if you get a guy
that you think is a star or can be a star.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
I mean I wouldn't throw out receiver either, because there
are some like you could get a you could get
another Osi Hostyloa State hat guy in a book. You
could get Matthew Golden. I think Matthew Golden would be
a great bit offensively. But like I wouldn't like what
we've talked about. It is like I don't think you
can almost rule out anything. I don't think you rule
out cornerback. I think you rule out out of a
(52:00):
nesssity you reel at cornerback, you rule out running back,
you and brought tight end likely even like but it
would be hard to turn down say a Colson Lovelin
or Tyler Warren if you were available. But obviously running
back you're gonna throw that out. You probably throw out safety, probably,
you probably throw out linebacker based on what we know
about the belief of the positional value and especially like
(52:24):
you also look at the free agency. What are the Cardinals.
What have the Cardinals done each year in free agency?
First year they brought in Kaiser White to a legitimate starter.
Two years ten million, they brought in Josh Woods, a
special teamer who turned into a starter. They brought in
Mac Wilson the next year, special teamer turned starter. This
(52:44):
year they're bringing in a Keen Davis Gaither presumably to
start special teamer turn starter, or mikel Walker, who was
special teamer previously starter. That is a position they think
they can just fill with guys and till they find
one who's a star.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
And and so.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
I like And here's another reason why I like them
taking a tackle is that they're gonna build that offensive line.
And I think with a little bit of uncertainty at
right tackle, whether it's Josh Simmons, whether it's Calvin Banks,
even if Jonah Williams is healthy, I one hundred percent
would not I would expect them to take that rookie,
(53:26):
that first round rook can play a right guard for
a year and then bump them out to right tackle.
I think that would one hundred percent be the plan
for Josh Simmons or Calvin Banks, or I mean, if
if they ended up valuing a Donovan Jackson that much,
I think that would be just one hundred percent they
could go guard right there. But I think I think
Jackson might be a would be a trade down scenario.
(53:48):
But I could one hundred percent see them taking Josh
Simmons or Calvin Banks they're at number sixteen, playing him
at a right guard for a year, and then slide
him in over to right tackle after in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Yeah, And that's the thing, you know, one of the
things that free agency should do is free you up
to be able to to do that right and and
kind of what Jess is saying so stutely is like
the free agency should allow you to continue to build
based on your vision and not on what your need is, right,
(54:20):
and and so while you're looking to compete this year
and get guys, you know, we talked about it like
if they if they sat there and they were like
Simmons were not comfortable with his knee, and then Banks
is gone and obviously Campbell and Membu were gone, and
they're not big on great Zabel and they go, okay,
you know, we can't move down. We love Kenneth Grant,
(54:42):
we love Schamar Stewart right the other Texas A and
M guy that's a freaky athlete that can do some things.
We love that guy. We're you know, we can take
either one of those guys at at sixteen and know
that in year one, and I talk about this all
(55:06):
the time, especially with defensive line types, like in year
one he can be a forty percent player and we're
comfortable with that knowing that in a year two or
three we can we can move him up and all
of a sudden, he's, you know, one of the better
defensive linemen, edge rushers, interior difference, whatever it is in
(55:30):
the league. I mean, you look at Jalen Carter for instance,
right like he went into a loaded defensive room and
he got fifty percent of snaps as a rookie, had
a decent rookie year, nothing to write home about, nothing
where you're like, this guy's a game wrecker, uh, you know,
and then he came this year and he played eighty
percent of the snaps, Like that's that's what you're looking at,
(55:54):
and that's what the goal is. And so I think
that's how you kind of look at this year and
you kind of dissect this year, you go, Okay, you know,
we'll be prepared. And I know people hate looking at
like this, but like, we'll be prepared in two years
when it's when Dalvin Thomlinson is gone, or when we're
ready to move on for Dalvin Thomlinson and now Kenneth
(56:16):
Grant takes the rings or or to your point, like, hey,
we had Josh Simmons, we slotted him in at right guard.
John Williams contracts up Beach wants to come back for
age thirty six. It's going to be the primary backup.
But now we've got these young guys Parashawnts Junior and
Josh Simmons at our left and right tackle for the
foreseeable future. Like that's what good teams do. They're not
(56:39):
chasing the one player they're missing. They're preparing for the future,
but also getting impact players that can have impactful play
in the present.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
Yeah, that would be ideal. I think. I wouldn't exclude
cornerback or receiver.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
No, I don't. I don't, Like you said, I think,
And I kind of did a little exercise with it yesterday.
I just kind of took the consensus big board and
I went from ten to thirty two and I just
put all the players down. And then you look at
it and you go, Okay, so let's remove Tyler Warren, Colston,
Lovelin right, tight ends, Malachi Starks, Nick Amanawari the safeties right,
(57:25):
and then we take out Matthew Golden and Mikau Agbuka,
Luther Burdon the wide receivers, and then Omari and Hampton
the running back. So you take out those guys, right,
and the rest of them you have, and you have
this list of guys, Will Johnson, Jaylen Walker, Schamar Stewart,
Kelvin Banks, mikel Williams, Mike Green, Jade Barron, James Pierce,
Kenneth Grant, Josh Simmons, Tyler Booker, Jiha Campbell, Walter Nolan,
(57:50):
Derek Harmon, and Donovan Azeruka. Like you look at all
those and you go, yeah, I don't mind any of
those names, because there's not a guy that you're like,
I got to have him. Maybe you'd prefer Jalen Walker
over everybody else, but there's not one guy that you're like,
that's the guy with the bullet. However, you do look
at at the positions and you go, Okay, I'd stack
(58:11):
them this way, you know, like you said, maybe offensive
line's one now and then defensive line edge is still two.
Ah too b. But you're not going to take offensive
tackle five over defensive lineman one, right because you don't
have to. And that's that's the nice thing about it.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
And with that, we will wrap up this edition to
the Rise of sere Read podcast the Sarf Cardinal Stock
on the website the six hundred and forty eight. We
have more topics to cover We've got. We still got
a little more than a month before the draft, so
we will be heavy on draft talk content with the
shows to come. We'll start previewing positions next week, I think.
But there's more to react to that stuff. Cos I'm
(58:55):
jes RERU. We'll back against soon. Thanks for listening. As always,
thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes, and subscribe
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(59:15):
star ready and always support the sponsors who support the show.
We'll be back soon for the best hour of Cardinals
talk on the web, Rise Up Red, c B Red
Sea Red, and of course Rise Up Sea Red.
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast, all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hells are the Cardinals fans and welcome to the latest
edition of the Rise of SIAD podcast. If us are
Cardinals Talk on the Web, I'm your Hostess Root from
cardswire dot com, the USA Today NFL wireside, covering of course,
the Ears and the Cardinals. Recording not at home as
I'm out in Texas visiting my oldest daughter, but that
doesn't matter for recording, it's the Internet. Joining me is
is Seth Cox from Avenge of the Birds dot com.
(00:55):
As we are in the second week of NFL Free Agency,
Episode six four eight. Seth, it was a busy week
last week, but things have come have slowed down significantly,
have they for both the Cardinals and the rest of
the NFL.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, it's been an interesting week just in general. I
mean it was fast and furious and then it slowed
to a drip basically, right, like we get one or
two little things a day, but nothing extraordinary. Nothing otherworldly.
(01:32):
Mostly now it's you know, focused time on the NFL
Draft and something we'll discuss on today's show, you know,
and kind of putting the pieces together of Okay, free
agencies over your team has done X and Y. Now,
how does the draft factor into Z in that process?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, and there there are two moves that the Cardinals
made that we did not get to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
They are little ones. And you know, one of the.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Things that that in fact, Howard balls Are my my
other writer over at cards Wire noted is that the contract,
the contract. He usually gets those contracts fairly quickly after
they're signed. Those are a very they're crawling right now.
They're crawling right now. They're not getting that. He's still
(02:21):
waiting on a few of them and normally he rips
those out fairly quickly, and it seems like the league
office is taking their time. We know that there's there's
a couple of there's a couple of moves around the
NFL that everyone's still waiting for. And that's I think
that and that that will impact more than anything mock
drafts moving forward, would be the decision of Aaron Rodgers,
(02:42):
the decision of Russell Wilson, particularly especially Aaron Rodgers, because
that will we can then start really sort of projecting
which teams at the top of the draft are going
to go with quarterbacks, don't you think?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah? And it's interesting to think that that's Steelers Giants situation.
It's all kind of in limbo until Aaron Rodgers gets
back from his latest ayahuasca journey. And so, you know,
it's it's interesting because this is this is you know,
(03:17):
another off season of this, but it's also interesting in
that there's it just you know, it goes to something
you and I talk about quite often, what is your plan?
And you know, we've we've long said that when people
throw out ideas of like hey just trade Kyler, where
(03:43):
we don't necessarily go yeah, that's a great idea or no,
you're an idiot, Like but we go, okay, what's your plan?
And and you know, more often than not they go, well,
you know, they'll figure something like you can go get
Sam Darnold for you know, one hundred million, one hundred
and twenty million or whatever, and it's like, okay, so
(04:04):
are you. And so that's the thing is like you
look at the you look at the Steelers, you look
at the Giants and you go, is is this the
way you want to go about your off seasons? Because
that's the thing is like if you don't have a quarterback,
then you're just constantly searching for a quarterback. And and
(04:25):
we've you know, been part of that process too for
the Arizona Cardinals, and and you know it's not any
fun either, Like there's no, that's not a fun way
to go about your off season. And so, like you said,
until those got until those dominoes faults, and not that
(04:45):
those dominoes would preclude anybody from drafting a quarterback, but
it changes the way you attack it correct Like you
don't if you're if you're the Giants and you end
up signing Aaron Rodgers, you go, Okay, if we get
if we have cam Ward as a ten and should
(05:07):
or Sanders is a seven and a half, we don't
have to draft should or Sanders at wherever they're drafting
on it is it three? I don't. Yeah, so you
know we don't have to do that. But if we
don't have that, it doesn't really matter what our grades
are on these guys. We just have to get somebody
in that's not a four right, And so that's yes,
(05:30):
that is you know what it comes down to, and
we joke about it, but the reality is is like
when you move on or make decisions or that quarterback position,
that needs to be the thought process. And and you know,
one of the things that we try to do is
from an intelligent standpoint, it say like would JG and
(05:53):
Monty like, would they be able to go to Michael
Bidwell and be like, hey, this is our plan moving
forward or we're going to be awful next year because
we're we want to move on from Kyler and we
might be able to get Aaron Rodgers. If not, you know,
we might draft somebody on Day two, but we'll go
forward with Jacoby Brissett, you know, the same guy that
(06:16):
just won one game last year. We'll go forward or
Clayton or whatever, you know. And so that's that is
the whole thing. And so, like you said, until those
dominoes fall, we'll continue to see you know, Shador Sanders,
We'll continue to see these mock drafts that have Jackson
Dark going at twenty two or whatever the still drafting.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Or number nine, which was holy cow, holy cow, the
Jackson Dark go into the I think of is that
Kuiper's at number nine, and we'll talk We're going to
talk about the mac Mock Draft, but let's start. Let's
start kind of talking about the two minor moves that
the Cardinals made after our last show.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Two guys, truth is, you probably haven't heard of.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Now if you follow what the Cardinals have been doing,
you probably heard the transactions. The Cardinals landed former Bears
and Seahawks offensive lineman Jake Kerran and then also former
Los Angeles Chargers and Dallas Cowboys receivers Simmi Fajoco, two
(07:22):
guys that probably.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Get minimum contracts. Kerran played ten games and.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Started two for the for the Bears last year, started
a couple of games at guard. He's started a handful
of games at tackle as well. He played three years
for the for the Seahawks. He's a big dude, well
long dude, six six three sixteen. I'm gonna be twenty eight,
twenty seven years old, Like I don't see that move,
(07:53):
like and he comes from what that terrible Bears offensive
line and you look at that even like Cardinals kind
of still need a starting right guard when they made
that room move, or like will that better not be
their starter.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Right and you know, like you said, last year played
two hundred and sixty snaps on the offensive line, two
hundred and thirty nine left guard, twenty one at right tackle.
The year before that he played two hundred ninety four snaps,
six at right guard to a hundred and eighty eight
(08:28):
at right tackle. So to your point, you go, where
does this guy fit? I mean, he's been mostly a
backup right guard and then a starting swing tackle, which
I don't know how that works. From being completely honest.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I wonder if if if basically he's slated to be
like this year's Tristan Cologne, though Cologne was more guard center.
I did see him, We did se him in pat
in training camp to take a few tackle reps out
of necessity, or I think he might have been at
tackle during one of the preseason games too, which was
fun that I'm guessing that would kind of be the
(09:12):
role that we'd had. And I kind of want to
see his contract, want to see how much it is
and two how much is guaranteed, because that will kind
of tell you.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
How much they like him.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Right, Yeah, I mean, you look at it. I mean,
even going back, PFF's great for charting. And you know
he in the preseason. For instance, last year, so twenty four,
he played one and fifty six snaps in the preseason,
all at right tackle. So and then you know the
(09:53):
year before that he played twelve at right guard in
one hundred and twenty one at right tackle. So basically,
what that's telling you is he's a right tackle that
can fold into guard, that can step in at left
tackle in a super pinch right like or left guard. Sorry,
in a super pinch like. It's not ideal, but he's
(10:15):
mostly a tackle that can fold into guard. He's been
mostly on the right side of the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Would you say, would you say that this lends itself
to believe that maybe Jonah Williams injury is serious enough
that he won't be able to start the season, which
hastened the signing for Kelvin Beacham to be the starter
to then make current slash Christian Jones more the backup.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, or you know, they're they're going in with the
idea and this is always how it should go. I
won't say how it does go, but how it should
go in theory is they're going, Hey, we want Christian
Jones to be the starter. But we're about a guy
that spent most of the season on entered reserve and
then you know, played minimally when he came back, so
(11:07):
he may not be ready. And if he's not ready
to start, he's gonna get all the reps and he's
gonna do everything in practice, and then Jake Curran will
be active on game days over Christian Jones. Right, Like,
that's typically how that goes, because they're going to say
to themselves like, we don't want to put him in
a position to blow his potential that we see or
(11:32):
that we like.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And then and then number two, they're trying to win
games this year, so they don't want recked. They don't
want to think one's it's one thing when you have
like a twenty twenty three season, it's completely different when
in twenty twenty five you're trying to win games. And
so unless he is at least stable, consistent, you don't
(11:55):
want to put him out there where you're gonna get
your quarterback killed.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
But also think about this, just if he's not the
backup right tackle, he's the backup right guard. So in
an essence, you're basically saying, like, hey, we've got this
guy that can do either. And like you said, we
don't have his contract numbers yet, they're they're you know,
leaking out. I don't even know, like what's happening with it,
(12:19):
but you're saying basically like, hey, this is our break
in case of emergency plan if this guy can't go,
and if not, he's a body for the summer for
everything else until Jonah's back and then and then we're
good to go. And also it's like one of those
(12:40):
things too, it's like, hey, if we don't get you know,
and no insight, no nothing to throw a name out there, like, hey,
if we don't get Josh Simmons at the pick we
want him at and we don't love anybody else on
day two, then we got this guy in house that
we're ready to go. Like I just that's how I
look at the whole signing.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Good Now, the the guy that I actually think is
a an intriguing upside signing and that Semi Fajoco uh
six four two fifteen receiver played. I was drafted by
the Cowboys. I think it was a fifth round pick.
Played last season. It might have been the last two
(13:23):
seasons for the La Chargers.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Last two seasons and fast.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Like at the combine he was a sub four four
five he was four four four it, you know at
six six, I mean six' four.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
That's that's really really good.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
And I like he's another guy that's been to Stanford
till now. They've got some Stanford guys in in Fojoco
and Michael Wilson and Elijah Higgins to go with that,
their receivers coach of Drew Turel, who is a Stanford guy.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I'm really intrigued.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
With this move because he doesn't have a lot of production.
He had six catches for one hundred and six yards,
but that's a that's a whopping seventeen point seven yards
per catch, and he's played a lot on special teams.
But I like the potential for this because I'm assuming
(14:20):
he's played most I haven't looked at the at the
at the at the snap reps. He's played primarily outside,
hasn't he.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
So he played forty three snaps in the slot last year,
one hundred and ninety one out wide. So either X
or Z. So yeah, I mean, so it's a it's
a basically a five to one snap outside the inside ratio,
you know, one of the things that you look at
(14:51):
for him is he's a big body guy that that
works hard in the wrung game. He's not a guy
that you're gonna expect my from I mean seven or sorry,
not seven snaps. He you know, a guy that in
(15:14):
his time you're talking about seven snaps as as a rookie,
thirty six his second year. And then what's been really interesting,
Jess is you know, obviously last year was Jim Harbob right,
so not a shock. He was about a one to one,
you know, a one to one passed to run snap
(15:36):
ratio in his two hundred and forty four snaps. But
the year before so I think that was still Brandon Staley. Correct, Yeah,
twenty three snaps played. He blocked for fourteen of those
snaps and only went out for routes nine times.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Interesting, so is he's Zach Pascal then, right, but a younger.
And it's interesting because I actually, you know, I didn't
run like I ran across his TikTok where he was
saying goodbye. It was his personal it was just on
my for you page and he was saying he kind
of addressed why he's leading LA and he has a
(16:14):
little bit of a following out there and people are saying, oh,
why are you leaving la He said, he you know,
it makes it sound like there's some guaranteed money because
he's got it. He said, he's got to take care
of his family and that usually it that's tied into money,
and he said the Cardinals really wanted him. I'm interested
in seeing what type of contract it is, if it's
like a two and a quarter million type deal.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
But it's kind of like what that like what Zach
Paskal got.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
But I actually kind of like the upside of this
move because not only is he fast, he's really quick.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Uh that that three cone that.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
He had six seven eight, that's that's incredible for his size,
which gives him the ability to move in and out
of spaces. And the Cardinals like long receivers, and what
we saw last year was a move away from Greg
dortch As playing in the slot, and they played a
lot more Marv inside and a lot more Michael Wilson inside.
(17:10):
And so this gives you some and Zay Jones returns.
We talked about him where he can play on the outside.
The Zay Jones and the Fojoco moves. I like as
low cost, high potential type of additions. I'm not saying
folks are going to go off for eight hundred yards,
but you get three hundred yards for him on twenty catches,
(17:33):
that's that's a good that's a really good start. And
if you get you know, fifty catches for six to
eight hundred yards from from Zay Jones, also very very
good production, especially if you can get Michael Wilson either
to up his production about eight hundred yards, or if you,
(17:54):
like I said, you want a guy you get if
you've got two thousand yard guides in Marvin Trey McBride,
want another guy that can get eight hundred or two
that can get six hundred plus, and then if you
add kind of big play with with theohoko with his
athletic says, I'm really intrigued by this move.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, it would be interesting to see, like even simply
as like what the guaranteed money is and if he
makes the roster type thing that that's the nice thing
about you know, typically when we do this part of
the show, right, we go, oh, this is what we know.
This is a little more fun in the sense that
we're talking just you know, kind of speculating because we
(18:36):
don't have the numbers yet, and so you know, you'll
have to you'll have to wait and see what these
number come out, and then they'll tell us more of
a story about oh, okay, this is what you know
because like we were talking last week. I don't know
if we talked about this on the air, right, but
you know, if if they were to draft, say Kenneth Grant,
(18:58):
you know, at sixteen, that's a pretty full room already,
and then adding adding a rookie, right, you look at
it and you go from a just from a salary
structure standpoint, like who makes the most sense to cut
and you're like, well, probably Aldre Collier because he's got
the least amount of guaranteed money. So you know, the
same thing with Kurran Fajoku, like those guys. When we
(19:20):
get those numbers, it tells us, It tells us more
of the story like where are they at? And even
even you know, and I doubt either of them do,
but even say like a two million dollar salary guarantee,
it doesn't mean much in that case.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
But it does mean like we had Chris Moore last year,
and they did have some guarantees for him, and he
initially made actually he was on the practice squad initially,
but he was still getting that money and got elevated
a couple of times. So it's you know, that's the
part where we're missing. But I will say that the
pohoco based on the lack of another, which is an
(20:00):
They're one of the interesting things some of these bigger
named older receivers, Keenan Allen, Amari Cooper, these guys are
still out there available.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Just look what freakin' and Cooper Cup got and and
you know, I think, and I could be wrong, I'm
double checking my numbers here, but I think Keenan Allen
was slightly more productive last year than than Cup seven
seven forty four, seven seventy Sorry, so and then what
(20:30):
did you don't think Cup put up over seven hundred
lat year?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I think he was.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I think he was at about six seven oh, he
was seven sixty seven seven ten.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
So right around the same. So like that's I mean,
you're literally saying, like, hey, this is a guy that's
like do people don't want to pay twelve fifteen million
dollars for these guys? And don't get me wrong, like
just and I are not saying Simmi Fajoku Orse Jones
are at all on the same level as as Keenan
(21:01):
Allen or Cooper Cup. But also their combined salary is
a third, if not you know, a fourth of what
you're gonna pay Cooper Cup or you know or likely
Keenan Allen at this point. Like that's that's the hard
thing with all of that, and so you know, it
(21:22):
doesn't preclude you from making moves, especially when you look
at it right, just like you go through all their
moves that they made. Evan Brown two year deal, right,
Zay Jones sound one year deal, Jacoby Brissett two year deal, LJ.
Collier one year deal, Josh Sweat four year deal, a
Keen Davis gay th Or two year deal, Jake Kurrn
one year deal, right, MIKEL. Walker one year deal, Dalvin
(21:44):
Thomlinson two year deal, and then simme a one year deal.
So like it they tell you, like in the contracts
for the most part, like, hey, Dalvin Thomlinson, he's a
guy that we're counting on obviously, Josh Sweat, Evan Brown,
a guy like Jake Curran. It's like, hey, if he
makes the roster, that's great. But that from anything else, like,
(22:08):
we're not expecting anything, right, so you know what they do.
It tells the story of what their expectation is. And
if you get anything more, you just chock it up
as a win.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Coming next to the Rise of Serret podcast, best Our
Cardinal's talk on the webit's move on a couple of
month drafts that came out this week.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Let's react to him.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
That's coming next in Rise, he read We're back on
the Rise of Serret podcast, best Our Cardinal's talk on
the web. With the first week of free agency in
the books, that means we got the two big names
releasing new mock drafts. One from ESPN's Milk Kiper and
then one from the NFL Networks NFL Media is Daniel Jeremiah.
(22:46):
And it's interesting because both project something interesting for the Cardinals.
On Kuipers, it is perhaps the surprise, and that is
Will Johnson Michigan cornerback falls all the way to sixteenth.
(23:07):
And what Kuyper wrote is that Johnson's tenth on his board,
and I've seen projections where he goes top ten, nearly
top five, and so this was a case.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think as he's putting the board together.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
It's not necessarily a need for the Cardinals because we
do like where the cornerback room is. You've got Sean
Murphy Bunting. I know people don't love him. They think
that was a terrible signing. He actually had a decent Yeah,
they got Starling Thomas, he's all right, You've got Max Melton,
second round pick last year. They're kind of counting on
(23:41):
to grow. And then you've got Garrett Williams inside. Sure
you could add Will Johnson to that group and I
wouldn't preclude them if Will Johnson's on the board.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
He does.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
He does offer size. He's nearly six foot two. We
don't know what his long speed is. That he didn't
run at the combine with the toe injury and not
going to be at his pro day because he just
entered his hamstring. So that is kind of a concern
because over the last in the last nine months, he's
had a shoulder injury. He had I guess what he
(24:13):
would call turf toe because it was a toe injury,
and he talked about having torn ligaments when that's kind
of a turf toe thing, and.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Then recently a hamstring.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I know you have said I don't know, it's on
the air or off the air between the group checks
that we have that if Johnson were available, you have
no problem with it. I'm starting to worry a little
bit based on the number of injuries he's had over
the last year.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, I mean foot stuff, ankle stuff, knee stuff. We
always talked about it, right Like, It's definitely position dependent.
You know. My concern is always with bigger guys that
live off explosive explosiveness, that that they won't be able
(25:00):
to get back into that type of play. I have
less concern typically about guys like Johnson things like that. So,
you know, the the biggest the biggest thing to me
(25:21):
is that he continues to have like or or pick
up nagging lower body injury. So it's like, you know,
he had the foot, toe whatever you want to call it,
and then that's led to hamstring issues, right like, So
(25:41):
to me, that's where the red flag is is like
is he not able to rehab consistently? Is he not
rehabbing correctly? And then it's leading to issues on other
things like those are obviously questions that we don't have
answers to, right Like, you know, a singular, a single
injury or things of that nature are not a big
(26:03):
deal since catastrophic stuff that you know, we saw with
like Marshawn Lattimore. Yeah, things like that. But that is
that is the one thing to watch about will Johnson
is that, you know, why is he struggling to come
back from this injury. Obviously we don't know what the
(26:23):
extent of the injury was. And now he's got a
hamstring that's going to hold him out of the pro
day that was supposed to be Friday.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, it's supposed to be this week on Friday.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So we're recording on Tuesday, and you know, it was
just announced i think today or yesterday that he's not
going to participate with the hamstring. Those are the little
like things to watch obviously, you know, Garrett Williams for instance,
a cl like a cls acls acls like. It's a
different thing for an athlete that isn't playing at a
(26:53):
heavyweight that isn't uh you know, not that they're not explosive,
but they're not dependent on explosiveness off the line of
scrimmage and things like that, you know, And so that's
how I look at that a little different. But but
Johnson's an alpha man, like he would be the guy
that comes in and he's all of a sudden kind
(27:16):
of the guy in the room. You know, he's not
the athlete that like a sauce gardener is, but same
type of mentality, same type of bill for the game
and understanding. And it's interesting because you know, going into
this year he was considered by many to be kind
of a top five lock and maybe even Corner like,
(27:41):
you know, pure corner one. You know, you have the
Trumps Hunter situation, and now between the the you know,
being banged up, obviously Michigan having a down year, he's
looked at more in that like he said, like that
ten to twenty range, and it just feels like we're
(28:01):
you know, I hate you always hate throwing names out
there right like and stuff like that, but when you're
talking about a guy that fell that probably shouldn't have
and you know, obviously hindsight's twenty twenty and things of
that nature. But there is some like Durell Reevis stuff there.
(28:23):
Right Like Revis went in the mid mid teens, you know,
he was looked at. He was looked at through the
lens of like is the athletic enough and things of
that nature. So I'm not saying that it's a perfect
one to one in comparison, but just the lead up
to the draft seems to be similar. And he has
(28:45):
those he has the dynamic about him that he could
be something that is is special in that way, and.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
That would be I mean, and to get a guy
like that, you'd make could work. You can never have
enough guys who can cover well.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
And if like if you you could at some point
trade Sean Murphy buttoning he's got one hundred percent of
his salar guaranteed this year at seven point seven million dollars,
but a serviceable cornerback especially it could be a mid
season move. You know, Star Thomas, you could easily move
(29:26):
him to the bench that I don't think you'd have
a problem with that. And then kind of like how
they how they worked both Max Meltain and Star Thomas together,
you could do that between Max and Johnson or even
Murphy Bunting and Johnson kind of going with a four
(29:46):
man corner rotation that did last year, and that would
be one hundred percent all right, but it would it
would be a mild surprise based on everything that we've seen,
because it still feels like, and we're gonna talk about
this later in the show, sort of like everything has
been all about edge defensive line, offensive line, or even
just edge defensive line, and they filled that, and that'll
(30:10):
kind of lead us to the other one, and that's
Daniel Jeremiah's mock draft where the Cardinals actually pass on
a couple of notable pass rushers that go a little
bit after them. Mike Green, the kid out of Marshall
seventeen sacks on the year, they pass on him. He
(30:30):
goes number seventeen. They pass, and I wouldn't necessarily call
it a pass on him, but Donna Donnavan Aziraku goes
number nineteen to Boston College, the two super productive pass rushers,
and instead the Cardinals and instead of going and this
is going with like Akelvin Banks on the offensive line,
(30:52):
instead of going with the Tyler Booker on the offensive line,
which strangely, Tyler Booker doesn't go in the first round
of this mock draft, even though I think DJ has
him as a top ten ranked player, And the Cardinals.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Go with Gray Zabel interior, who play who's played all over.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
The offensive line, played tackle last year because he was
the very best that they had in North Dakota State.
But he's played all over the line, and he could,
like viably, he could jump in right in and be
a starting right guard for them. The issue being is
that the best option for them at number sixteen when
you've got Tyler Booker on the board, especially if you're
(31:32):
looking offensive line, Tyler Booker still on the board, you
could go Kelvin Banks on the board. It appears that
Josh Simmons is still on the board. It feels like
I think there would be a long shot for the
Cardinals to go that route over a Booker, over a Simmons,
(31:55):
over a Kelvin Banks.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I love Zabel. I think he's going to be a
fantast astic player. So I don't really have an issue
with it. My issue becomes it this feels more like
a knee pick, right.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that is the one spot where you're like, eh,
they need a starter.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah and so and so you just kind of pencil
in I guess, right, And here's what I'll say. DJ
has been very consistent with able. He had Zabel going
eighteen in the previous draft, so it's not like he
like took him from you know, the fifties or whatever.
Into the first round. Uh so yeah, I'm going eighteen
(32:36):
to the Seahawks in the last draft, and then in
his first one, see, he did not have him in
the first round. So you know, you look at it,
you go, okay, well, you know he's been consistent with
where the whereabouts he puts Zabel in his you know,
(32:57):
draft the last two at least, so he's hearing those
type of things, right, Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
It sounds like that there are teams that really like him.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
And so that you know, that begs the question are
the Cardinals going to be one of those teams?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
It would be an interesting departure from the two drafts
that we have based on Monte Austin for it. Right,
So in his two drafts, he's not taken a single
FCS player.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And big big program so Hio like in the first round,
Ohio State, Ohio State, Missouri, those are big time programs.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Right, and even in the second rounds. I mean we're
talking Big ten with Rutgers, right, We're talking LSU in
the third round. We're talking Syracuse, Florida State, like Illinois, Stanford.
You know, it's not like it's not like in No
shade obviously, but it's not like we're talking about Tulsa.
Colorado State is their top players right, They're they're going
(34:01):
big program, So it would be a it'd be a
departure for sure to see that happen. Doesn't mean it can't,
doesn't mean it won't. Just would be a very big
change from what we've seen in the two Monty drafts,
because not only would be the again the first time
they take an FCS player, but they do so with
(34:23):
a top twenty pick. That would be again, I love
the player. I think it would be a good fit.
He can, you know, slot in at redguard from day one,
and you look at it with with the healthy General Williams,
you know, you say, okay, well we got our offensive
line set. But at the same time, it does feel
a little rich.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Do you if you're looking at offensive line, if Josh Simmons,
Kellen Banks, Tyler Booker all on the board, do you
take Zabel over any of those guys.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
No, Obviously Simmons would be about the medicals if they
check out. I think I think Simmons would be the
ideal guy because he's a guy that's played left tackle,
he's played right tackle. You know, he gives them some flexibility,
(35:17):
and he would be a guy that you know, has
familiarity with obviously the coach and things of that nature.
Here's what I'll say. If they were to do this
and they take Zabel over Simmons or or Donovan Jackson
or any of the other guy's book or Banks, whatever,
it would speak to what the new line coach is thinking, right,
(35:42):
because if they have their if they have their pick.
If if you say that, only Will Campbell and the
was it membuh are off the board, and so you
take Gray's Abel, I think a correct me if you disagree.
But I think we would tend to think like, oh,
(36:06):
Bride must have been like no, I don't want Simmons
and not not not I don't want but like, hey,
I don't think the knees right or you know, he
would make sense, you know, it would be more it
would be more like telling to us the one name
that I wanted to bring up that's not an offensive
lineman that I've seen. I don't know what the word is, like,
(36:29):
I don't know confusion or you know, maybe disputing or
however you want to say it about. Is Jeha Campbell? Right?
So a guy that you and I both like a
lot uh impressed with his size, length, speed, gives you
a little bit of everything. Can be a guy that
(36:54):
that plays on the edge at times, can be a
guy that's your you know, inside back or been fantastic
doing both. In a really versatile player that it does
have a singular position but can be flexible. So I
know fans are like, oh, we don't want another guy
that doesn't have a No. Yeah, he's an off ball
linebacker that can play off the edge if needed. I've
(37:19):
seen him like all over the place, so you know,
for instance, in this one, Daniel Jeremiah has him going
top ten, which would be kind of like an insane
thing for a guy that if you look at him
as just an off ball backer, right like, yeah, top
ten we've talked about before. If you do that, like
(37:42):
I mean, you gotta be Roquan Smith, right like you
got to be that Simmons right right exactly, you know.
And so then you look at at Kuiper and and
Kiper has him going after the Cardinals. So is there
(38:03):
I mean, obviously there's always you know, we could throw
out Jackson, Dart, you, we can throw out you know,
all these names, right but is there a bigger disconnect
between a guy and where he's gonna fit and go.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
That's and I think, you know, I think a lot
of it has to do is the belief or the
value that a number of the teams in the NFL
put at that particular position. Like you look at the
Philadelphia Eagles, who haven't spent a first round pick on
off the ballpacker since what nineteen ninety four? I think
is what I heard on Kuiper's podcast a few weeks ago. Yeah,
(38:39):
to see him go from top ten to middle of
the second round is an incredible disparity. And I know
Kuyper really really likes Campbell in terms of his ability,
and I wouldn't mind. I would kind of like him
in Arizona. But at the same time, I think from
(38:59):
what we know about Jonathan Gannon and I think as
well for Manty Austin Ford as they they don't put
first round value on the position even when the talent
is great.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, and that makes sense to me, you know, I
think he's a guy that fits. I mean, another guy
that is another intriguing just watching where he fits is
like the kid out of U of a right tep
MC McMillan. Yeah, you know, we've seen him top ten,
we've seen him top fifteen. Both guys have him going
(39:38):
in the twenties, right.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
So.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
So Kypra has him going to the Broncos and then
Jeremiah has him going to the Charterers. So you know,
both AFC West teams and things of that nature. So
it's really interesting because you know you mentioned Will Johnson, right,
he goes fifteen, I think in and Jeremiah, so they're
(40:04):
right around the same page in terms of value. Mike
Green same thing. Mike Green goes goes at fifteen, and
Kuiper's goes at seventeen. Like you said, the Cardinals pass
on him and Jeremiah, So like those guys are all
kind of thought to be the same. It's just interesting
to see these guys that are top five and some
(40:28):
and then outside the top twenty and others, and like
where do these guys fit in? I mean, John A.
Barren Barn's another one, right, Like Piper's got him going
twenty four to Minnesota. I think Jeremiah's got him going eleven.
Like those are wild variances. And what that's telling me
(40:49):
is a couple things. The first thing is that there's
really not a consensus after cam Wore, Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, right, Like,
those are the three guys in this draft. After that,
it's kind of just pick your flavor what you like.
(41:10):
I mean, we mentioned Mimbo, you know, all of a sudden,
he's O T one. Will Campbell, who's been a steady
force at LSU, had some short arms in the in
the measurements, and now he's you know, nine to ten
in both of these type of exercises. You know, Baron McMillan,
(41:31):
we've seen these guys all over the place, so I think,
and obviously we'll know more in April as the draft
is approaching. But more than anything, it just really tells
you that there's no consensus after those top three guys. Yeah,
and so what's gonna happen is you're gonna have a
(41:54):
lot of opinions on a lot of different guys, and
so it'll be interesting to see if we're able to
cut through the noise and find what the Cardinals want
to do. Obviously, the easiest thing would be, like, hey,
let's just pencil in Josh Simmons, right, like Ohio State
(42:17):
fits what they need be the third highest state guy
they draft in the first round in three years. But
if it ends up not being Simmons, you know where
where's the fit and how do they look at these
guys and go after them?
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Come out next on the Rise of Secret Podcast, Best
Our Cardinals Talk on the Web. We've got one segment
left and we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
The Cardinals and how things have changed in the draft
after free agency. That's kind of next. Ends of seread.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
We're back on the Rise of Secret Podcast, Best Our
Cardinals Talk on the Web. One final segment on this
edition to show up at SO six forty eight and
still talk in NFL Draft, but now kind of where
we for what kind of the top positions where I
think the Cardinals are going to now prioritize. They addressed
the defensive edge by signing Josh Sweat and resigning Baron Browning.
(43:14):
Victor de McCage left, so I think maybe we might
see Jesse Looketta come back.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
I'm still possible on that, but I think they kind
of like the edge group that they have.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
They upgraded the defensive line, big name in Dalvin Tomlinson,
and they added LJ. Collier bringing him back, and so
you've got a really good six man you know, group
for now and everything leading up to free agency. Didn't
it feel like that everything about the draft was either
(43:47):
one to edge defensive line or defensive line edge when
he came to the first round. Didn't it always feel
like that up until free agency started.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Yeah, And I'm not how much that's changed, because as
much as I love the moves, and you know, we
we gave our Josh Sweat grades last week and things
of that nature, the reality becomes it doesn't change what
they need. It just changed changes how urgent it is.
(44:20):
You mentioned corner right, and you had a suit observation
like you really can never have enough, Like you can
always get more corners, and you always need more corners.
The same thing you can say about any of the
front four, three, edge, whatever however you want to look
(44:42):
at it. Defensive line and edge rushers are there's something
you can address every year. And we talked about it
right with with the Eagles, right like they they drafted
Jordan Davis and then what they do the next year, Oh, okay,
we'll draft Jalen Carter and then what they you know,
(45:03):
what they do the next year. So like just because
you get one and even if they're a good one,
it doesn't change how you go about it. And and
I think that is going to be Monty's mantra. Like
elite positions, players that play the defensive line, the offensive line, corner,
(45:31):
you know obviously edge, those will will keep taking swings
at those guys like well, you know, it doesn't necessarily
mean first round, but those are those will be premium
picks yearly. And that's something that you and I talk
about all the time, right, Like the previous regime really
(45:52):
didn't do that, especially at corner and defensive line, right,
Like it was there. It was always like it was
always like, hey, we got these and we liked guys.
Luck you foe to uh goodness, who's the other one
that year that they Richard Lawrence? Richard Lawrence, Right, we
like those guys. It's not that we disliked them or
(46:13):
that they weren't good. I mean Cameron Thomas and my
j Sanders. We liked both of those guys coming out.
But like, when those are the investments you make at
those positions, it's it says more about your your scheme
and your building than it does anything else. I mean,
(46:33):
I mean think about it like let's.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Go let's go back to those first few traps, and
who are those first round picks? Uh, dating back to
when Kime started. It's guard, it's safety, it's off like
you've got to tackle in twenties. Uh, you've got to
tackle in twenty fifteen. You've got off the ball in
twenty six No, you've got defensive tackle twenty sixteen. It's okay,
(46:57):
twenty seventeen, off the ball, twenty eighteen, quarterback, twenty nineteen,
off the ball. No. Twenty nineteen was Kyler. So they
caught two years in a row, then they off the
ball two years in a row.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
They've also got Buddha Baker as a second round pick.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
So they're they're taking guards, they're taking linebackers, they're taking
safeties in the first two rounds. You know, they took
you know, Trey McBride in the second round rather than
taking cornerbacks in pass rushers and tackles.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Right there and even then, like you and like you said,
like you look at it right there, their first draft,
they got one great player, Tyron Matthew, and he was
a safety. Right alex Ocrapher had a very nice career
for a fourth round pick, but it's not like you know,
he was a star. Uh. And then you look at
(47:47):
the next draft, like you said, a safety linebacker type
in d L. Buchannan, Troy Nicholas.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Crib but the only Notre Dame tight end to not
do anything.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Right Kray Martin. And then in their next draft they
get two guys that like have really nice careers, right
DJ Humphries and Marcus Golden. And then and then they
whiff on their net I mean and obviously hindsight twenty twenty,
but the twenty sixteen draft is literally what ended Kimes career.
(48:18):
You know, you can't you can't whiff on your first
round pick, trade away your second round pick for Chandler Jones,
who was obviously fantastic, and then with on the first
corner you took ever, like think think about this just
this is a wild thing to say, but they didn't
(48:41):
take a corner for three entire drafts. That's just like that,
that's complete negligence from the scouting and and and the
roster development department. Like it's one thing if you're like, hey,
(49:03):
we're not gonna take a first round, you know what,
we won't even take a second round. But like to
go three entire drafts and never take a corner. It's
just a wild indictment of out team building. And then
your first one that you take was a converted running
back who ended up you know, you drafted outside of
(49:26):
the top ninety Like that's that, by the way. Then
you didn't even take another one until the sixth round
in twenty eighteen, two years later, and the first top
seventy five corner you took, Hey, guess what he's good?
Like it's almost like it's almost like roster building is
not incredibly difficult if you just take players at premium
(49:51):
positions consistently. But that's another story for another day. So yeah,
I mean that's the thing is like I don't going
back back to the Jeremiah thing, Like I like Grey Zabel,
so I don't want this to come across as great
Zabel slander. Well, based on what we've seen from Manti,
I don't think that Grey Zabel will be the guy
(50:13):
uh that they that they look to bring in because
he's always built from the premium positions.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
First, for me, I'm thinking it felt like, at least
it felt like before free agency, if we had to
look at a positional priority there were a top three,
and that was I think even pretty even one A
one B edge and defensive tackle, and then a clear
(50:43):
number three would have been tackle on the offensive like
tackle slash guard.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
I feel like that.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
And as unsexy as this is, that it might be
if if everything else is even, if you've got three players,
if you've got an offensive line, a defensive lineman, and
an edge guy all rated kind.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Of the same.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
I personally feel like offensive tackle with a little bit
of versatility probably has pushed up to number one, and.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
I think those three are still kind of number one
through three with a bullet And then you look at
like we said, like, hey, if you get a guy
that you think is a star or can be a star.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
I mean I wouldn't throw out receiver either, because there
are some like you could get a you could get
another Osi Hostyloa State hat guy in a book. You
could get Matthew Golden. I think Matthew Golden would be
a great bit offensively. But like I wouldn't like what
we've talked about. It is like I don't think you
can almost rule out anything. I don't think you rule
out cornerback. I think you rule out out of a
(52:00):
nesssity you reel at cornerback, you rule out running back,
you and brought tight end likely even like but it
would be hard to turn down say a Colson Lovelin
or Tyler Warren if you were available. But obviously running
back you're gonna throw that out. You probably throw out safety, probably,
you probably throw out linebacker based on what we know
about the belief of the positional value and especially like
(52:24):
you also look at the free agency. What are the Cardinals.
What have the Cardinals done each year in free agency?
First year they brought in Kaiser White to a legitimate starter.
Two years ten million, they brought in Josh Woods, a
special teamer who turned into a starter. They brought in
Mac Wilson the next year, special teamer turned starter. This
(52:44):
year they're bringing in a Keen Davis Gaither presumably to
start special teamer turn starter, or mikel Walker, who was
special teamer previously starter. That is a position they think
they can just fill with guys and till they find
one who's a star.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
And and so.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
I like And here's another reason why I like them
taking a tackle is that they're gonna build that offensive line.
And I think with a little bit of uncertainty at
right tackle, whether it's Josh Simmons, whether it's Calvin Banks,
even if Jonah Williams is healthy, I one hundred percent
would not I would expect them to take that rookie,
(53:26):
that first round rook can play a right guard for
a year and then bump them out to right tackle.
I think that would one hundred percent be the plan
for Josh Simmons or Calvin Banks, or I mean, if
if they ended up valuing a Donovan Jackson that much,
I think that would be just one hundred percent they
could go guard right there. But I think I think
Jackson might be a would be a trade down scenario.
(53:48):
But I could one hundred percent see them taking Josh
Simmons or Calvin Banks they're at number sixteen, playing him
at a right guard for a year, and then slide
him in over to right tackle after in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Yeah, And that's the thing, you know, one of the
things that free agency should do is free you up
to be able to to do that right and and
kind of what Jess is saying so stutely is like
the free agency should allow you to continue to build
based on your vision and not on what your need is, right,
(54:20):
and and so while you're looking to compete this year
and get guys, you know, we talked about it like
if they if they sat there and they were like
Simmons were not comfortable with his knee, and then Banks
is gone and obviously Campbell and Membu were gone, and
they're not big on great Zabel and they go, okay,
you know, we can't move down. We love Kenneth Grant,
(54:42):
we love Schamar Stewart right the other Texas A and
M guy that's a freaky athlete that can do some things.
We love that guy. We're you know, we can take
either one of those guys at at sixteen and know
that in year one, and I talk about this all
(55:06):
the time, especially with defensive line types, like in year
one he can be a forty percent player and we're
comfortable with that knowing that in a year two or
three we can we can move him up and all
of a sudden, he's, you know, one of the better
defensive linemen, edge rushers, interior difference, whatever it is in
(55:30):
the league. I mean, you look at Jalen Carter for instance,
right like he went into a loaded defensive room and
he got fifty percent of snaps as a rookie, had
a decent rookie year, nothing to write home about, nothing
where you're like, this guy's a game wrecker, uh, you know,
and then he came this year and he played eighty
percent of the snaps, Like that's that's what you're looking at,
(55:54):
and that's what the goal is. And so I think
that's how you kind of look at this year and
you kind of dissect this year, you go, Okay, you know,
we'll be prepared. And I know people hate looking at
like this, but like, we'll be prepared in two years
when it's when Dalvin Thomlinson is gone, or when we're
ready to move on for Dalvin Thomlinson and now Kenneth
(56:16):
Grant takes the rings or or to your point, like, hey,
we had Josh Simmons, we slotted him in at right guard.
John Williams contracts up Beach wants to come back for
age thirty six. It's going to be the primary backup.
But now we've got these young guys Parashawnts Junior and
Josh Simmons at our left and right tackle for the
foreseeable future. Like that's what good teams do. They're not
(56:39):
chasing the one player they're missing. They're preparing for the future,
but also getting impact players that can have impactful play
in the present.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
Yeah, that would be ideal. I think. I wouldn't exclude
cornerback or receiver.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
No, I don't. I don't, Like you said, I think,
And I kind of did a little exercise with it yesterday.
I just kind of took the consensus big board and
I went from ten to thirty two and I just
put all the players down. And then you look at
it and you go, Okay, so let's remove Tyler Warren, Colston,
Lovelin right, tight ends, Malachi Starks, Nick Amanawari the safeties right,
(57:25):
and then we take out Matthew Golden and Mikau Agbuka,
Luther Burdon the wide receivers, and then Omari and Hampton
the running back. So you take out those guys, right,
and the rest of them you have, and you have
this list of guys, Will Johnson, Jaylen Walker, Schamar Stewart,
Kelvin Banks, mikel Williams, Mike Green, Jade Barron, James Pierce,
Kenneth Grant, Josh Simmons, Tyler Booker, Jiha Campbell, Walter Nolan,
(57:50):
Derek Harmon, and Donovan Azeruka. Like you look at all
those and you go, yeah, I don't mind any of
those names, because there's not a guy that you're like,
I got to have him. Maybe you'd prefer Jalen Walker
over everybody else, but there's not one guy that you're like,
that's the guy with the bullet. However, you do look
at at the positions and you go, Okay, I'd stack
(58:11):
them this way, you know, like you said, maybe offensive
line's one now and then defensive line edge is still two.
Ah too b. But you're not going to take offensive
tackle five over defensive lineman one, right because you don't
have to. And that's that's the nice thing about it.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
And with that, we will wrap up this edition to
the Rise of sere Read podcast the Sarf Cardinal Stock
on the website the six hundred and forty eight. We
have more topics to cover We've got. We still got
a little more than a month before the draft, so
we will be heavy on draft talk content with the
shows to come. We'll start previewing positions next week, I think.
But there's more to react to that stuff. Cos I'm
(58:55):
jes RERU. We'll back against soon. Thanks for listening. As always,
thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes, and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher Radio, Audio Boom,
or many other podcast platforms so shows are delivered directly
to your mobile device. Please give the show a five
(59:15):
star ready and always support the sponsors who support the show.
We'll be back soon for the best hour of Cardinals
talk on the web, Rise Up Red, c B Red
Sea Red, and of course Rise Up Sea Red.
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