February 12, 2025 • 46 mins
Following the Philadelphia Eagles' Super Bowl win, Jess and Seth react to the big game. They talk about the takeaways we got about how the Cardinals should build their roster and then they discuss the Eagles free agents that fill glaring needs the Cardinals have this offseason.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Zz h.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Cox, Alerzona Cardinals fans, and welcome to the latest edition
of the Rise of Series podcast of us are Cardinals
Talk on the Web. I'm your host Jess Root from
cardswire dot com, the USA TODA, NFL wireside the covers
Arizona Cardinals recording with my co host Seth Cox from
Revenge of the Birds dot com, esp nations Arizona Cardinals
(00:48):
site as we record episode six hundred and forty, the
post super Bowl episode.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
That we're going to talk about that. We're going to
talk about the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
The Eagles championship win, what we can learn, So there
was stuff we can learn about that from the Cardinals,
and then we will look at in particular some Eagles
free agents that we might think makes sense and whether
they'll be targets or not. To Seth, I guess first
and foremost, and we were talking about it before the show.
(01:19):
This wasn't a particularly enjoyable Super Bowl. This this for me,
this is like a reminder of late nineties, early two
thousand Super Bowls, which oft times were not competitive, especially
in the nineties, they were not competitive.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I remember those when I was a teenager.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
No, it was it was yeah, it was a tough watch, man,
I mean it was not fun to watch. You saw
a lot of bad football on both sides for a
little bit and then and then the Eagles just ended
up overwhelming the Chiefs. The Chiefs looked and and by
the way, Andy Reid is a Hall of Fame level coach,
(01:57):
one of the probably inching into the time five in
terms of coaching all time, but man, he did not
have a good game plan for this one that the
Eagles look ill prepared. And just you know, buddy of mine,
Billy m on on X talked about it a couple
(02:20):
of weeks ago, kind of taking a shot at Ryan
Day when he was doing it, but you know, kind
of mentioning it like talent can overcome coaching when the
talent is that abundant. And he was talking about Ohio
State winning the national championship and he said, oh, by
the way, when the Eagles win the Super Bowl, like
(02:44):
and that's kind of what it was, right, Like we
saw just an overwhelming group of talent, you know, the
end of the end of a regime, basically kind of
the last great gasp for this particular set of Eagles,
and it was it's very similar to the year that
(03:05):
they won in twenty seventeen, because.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
The Eagles are now officially three pre breakers, because it
was it was they were up against the Patriots who
were set to win their third in a row. Nick
Foles foiled that they did it again, and we look
at that the Super Bowl, the number of games that
we talked about the Cardinals, this was almost one of
(03:28):
those things is that they started badly offensively, and it's
steamrolled because they went, you know, one first down, punt,
three and out, three and out interception, and they were
(03:49):
luckily and lucky enough that in those in the first
four possessions it was only ten to nothing because they
had gotten the punt, they forced the punt on the
first drive and gotten the but then for the rest
of the the Chiefs picked up one first down in
(04:09):
the entire first half. And we've seen like things steamroll
like for the Cardinals, and that's exactly what happened. Is
that things just got out of hand and they never
got and had they been able to score once in
the first half, I think this game goes wildly different.
But the Eagles then just poured it on. And while
(04:34):
in my case, I believed the Chiefs would win, this
sort of game didn't completely surprise me because Philly has
the talent to do it. I just didn't expect the
Chiefs to look so completely overmatched from the very start
of the game. It's like Philly's Philly's defensive line, well,
(04:57):
like that makeshift offensive line that the chief have been
running with it finally, like.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
That house of cards fell very, very poorly.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
And what was the other time that we saw Patrick
Mahomes losing the Super Bowl? It was because Tampa Bay
was able to get consistent pressure. And that's what they did.
Is that Mahomes didn't have time to do anything like
the dancing he does in the pocket, be able to
step up. He just there was no he had no time,
he wasn't being he wasn't able to step up and
(05:28):
break free of the proc pocket And it was just
it was just a masterful performance on both sides of
the ball by the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Well, I think there's a twofold thing to this. Ess.
I think the first thing is part of the reason
we didn't expect this or it was a little surprising
to see the blowout, is because the Eagles have been
so inconsistent all here. You and I were kind of
talking about beforehand, Right, they win a game in Brazil
against the Packers, then they go and lose to the
Atlanta Falcons. Then they went a fifteen twelve game against
(06:00):
the New Orleans Saints, who are terrible as we as
we know at the end of the season, and then
they get blown out by Tampa Bay, right, and then
you kind of just look at their season, right, twenty
sixteen over the Browns, but then they blow out the
Giants and the Bengals, then they barely beat the Jaguars,
then they blow out the Cowboys, you know, hang on
(06:21):
against the Commanders at blow out the Rams, hang on
to beat the Ravens, and then they almost get upset
remember in Week fourteen, by the Panthers, and everybody's just
kind of like, what is this team like? It makes
no sense? And then and then obviously game one of
the of the postseason, they kind of just toy with
(06:43):
Green Bay. But then they struggle with the Rams and
never really put it away, and it takes you know,
the weather and all this, all these outside things, and
you're like, all right, what is this team? Like why
are they? But they came in, they were focused and
they were ready. And then it on the flip side
for the Chiefs, you just saw, like, like you said,
(07:06):
it was a house of cards all year they and
I don't want people to take this the wrong way,
but you just saw that this was held together by
one Patrick Mahomes's greatness and then kind of duct tape
and glue. I mean, we're talking.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
About great defense all year, and their defense honestly didn't
like the game plan of slow down Saquon Barkley. They
did it right. He had fifty seven yards of the
entire game. But it was that it was offensively where
they were just surviving. Because this year the Chiefs were
very good defensively and did just enough offensively, and late
(07:47):
in the year it looked like they were gonna kind
of get on a roll.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
But the the inconsistency at receiver.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
After Ahi Rice got down went down, and Worthy being
a rookie and Travis Kelcey not looking like Travis Kelcey
of the year's past, and he like, I don't know
if that that was it for him, but and then
the offensive line just piecedme on it. So they knew
how to win games late, but it looks like they
just ran out of magic. And I kept waiting, like
(08:18):
is it gonna be? Is this gonna be the matt
And that part of it was just tongue in cheek
and like, okay, they're down twenty four to nothing, is
this gonna be mahomes Is matching? And it just didn't
happen because the offense couldn't do anything. They just he
he was under too much presce he was hit well,
he was sacked six times and then one four or five, six, seven, eight,
(08:42):
nights hit eleven times. He was under pressure constantly, naturally.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
And not just that just but remember the Eagles didn't
have to blitz, and that was always that's the worst
part of it, right, And that was always the same
way that Brady lost, right, Like we always talk about this,
the way that radios teams was teams that could get
pressure with four and and drop seven and cause rekavoc
(09:09):
on the back end because the front end was doing
so much work and we saw the same thing here.
It's it's the way you be any team or the
way you win consistently. And that's kind of the whole
moral of the story, right just is that you've got
a group that had done a nice job. They've they've
(09:32):
you know, been together for a while, and but it
was always going to come to this end because it's
just the reality of the NFL. You can't keep everybody.
I mean you can, but guys have to sacrifice. And
there's no one that's going to sacrifice their their financial
(09:57):
stability for the rest of their life to win another
I mean, they got one. And we saw that with
Tyreek Hill, right, Like Tyreek Hill wanted as to maximize
his financial you know, gains in his career and he
was like I got a Super Bowl, like now it's
about me and and that's and that's how it goes.
(10:18):
And so the Eagles are gonna, you know, feel that
they've done a good job of preparing and we'll talk about,
you know, the guys that they'll be losing, but they've
done as good of a job as they can to prepare.
But it's still not going to be the same. I mean,
you're still losing guys that were difference makers and you're
(10:44):
replacing them with guys that you vote can be difference makers.
Like that's the that's how it goes. But then there's
also the reality and a conversation we're going to have
shortly of are and this is the conversation we have
about Georgia Bama. You know, now Ohio State defensive players
all the time, right, just are they that good or
(11:09):
are they a product of a system that allows them
to be great? And so that's that's what we're gonna
have to figure out this offseason because we've already seen it. Man,
the clamoring, right, the clamoring for a couple of these
guys already is is very very strong.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yes, I will say one thing.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
That rodes well for Kansas City the game that Xavier
Worthy had, he's gonna be good, if he's gonna.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Be good, Yeah, and that and I just completely spaced it.
That was my other point, Like, let's be honest, Kansas
City had a bunch of names on offense, but they
didn't really have a lot of talent.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
No, DeAndre Hopp, de Andrew Hopkins apparently watched Hollywood Brown.
I mean, you can't like we loved what Hollywood had
the potential for it. Guess what Hollywood isn't very Hollywood.
I guess undure the bright lights. He's inconsistent. Kelsey is
on his last legs. We'll see if he comes back.
(12:14):
But yeah, and so they're their top playmakers, like the
running Back Committee that they had ended up being Barfie
and everybody and Isaiah's Pacheco combined for sixteen yards.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
And everybody's been saying right, and I shouldn't say everybody,
but intelligent chiefs fans have been saying like, this isn't
This isn't how you want it to look, right, Like
these guys. We love what Kareem Hump came in and
(12:49):
did this year. We love what Isaiah Pacheco has done
in the past, but this isn't This just wasn't that.
And it's just it's wild to me that fans and
I get it, I mean they're fans. They were like,
oh no, it's fine because like my buddies that are
chief fans and I said this the other day, like
(13:10):
my buddies that are chief fans, that's been one of
their things the whole time. They're like, they're like, it's
you know it's Mahomes, Like Mahomes has to make magic
and if it doesn't happen, it's there's not enough talent
on offense. And we saw that come to fruition. Like
it's it's wild to think that that a team that's
been to three straight Super Bowls won the two previous
(13:32):
that a guy that's never not played in the in
the AC Championship since he started playing or started as
a quarterback in the NFL. And people are saying like, oh,
he's got to, you know, do it again by himself.
And he almost did it. I mean, I know the
(13:54):
game wasn't close, but the fact that they were there
again with this this group is is absurd because drift
from a talent perspective, they were just so overmatched most
of the season.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, come out of an next on the resids here
podcasts are Cardinals Talk on the Web? Now, now let's
turn the corner and talk about what we can learn
for this for the Cardinals. That's kind of an ex
and rise ups he read We're back on the rise
of here podcast Best are Cardinals Talk on the Web?
I think the first thing when we when we saw
the Eagles win the Super Bowl is what can we
(14:30):
take away from that?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And the Cardinals in a wave.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
If you're if you're kind of looking at things, you're
there are some things like what are they missing? And
and you can point to two things in particular about
how these two rosters are put together. The two things
that the Eagles that stood out in that Super Bowl,
the two things that absolutely stood out was the pass
(14:56):
rush efficiency, the pressure and the play making like the turnovers.
And you point out the stat that there had been
never been a a Super Bowl champion that had forced
fewer than three turnovers in the playoffs, and you know
that continue to be the case.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I looked at some of the numbers.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So the Cardinals were very bottom half of the league,
bottom third of the league in sacks this year, and
and and the turnovers they forced seventeen takeaways the entire year.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We've had this discussion on the show several times.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
The Eagles had thirteen takeaways in four preseason games and.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So postseason postseason, yeah, postseason games.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
And and so you look at two things, is that
the two things that really separated the Eagles from the
Cardinals on a large scale is the fact the Eagles
could affect opposing quarterbacks and not have to do fancy
things to do it.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And two they took the ball away.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And those are the two things that the Cardinals scrappy
defense just didn't do. They didn't get to the quarterback
without adding extra pressure, and they didn't take the ball away.
And so while they did have some effectiveness in the
second half of the ear they were a better defensive
They weren't terrible, but they were a survival defensive team
(16:22):
because they couldn't make plays, so they couldn't get sacks,
and they couldn't take the ball away. And so I
think if you look at the kind of the offense
skill set, like if you look at the Eagles and
you look at the Cardinals side by side offensively, you
kind of get like, the Eagles have an elite running back. Yes,
the Cardinals have a great running back in James Connor.
(16:44):
The receiving corps, you obviously Phillies is better than the Cardinals,
but you kind of see what the Cardinals are building there.
Both have great tight ends. The offensive line the Eagles.
The Eagles this year, their offensive is fantastic. The Cardinals
didn't get bad offensive line play, and then their quarterback.
I'm still gonna say this, even though Jalen Hurts has
(17:04):
accomplished more in his career, he is more game managery
than Kyler Murray. I think Kyler Murray is a more
talented quarterback, a better quarterback. He just hasn't accomplished as much.
And so, but if you look at the way that
the Eagles built this roster, you can kind of go
with the Cardinals because is Kyler Murray the standalone star,
(17:27):
like one of the elite four, Like he's gonna carry
the guy the team like Joe Burrow or Lamar Jackson
or josh Anna Patrick Mahomes. I think we've reached the
point where while he can do that, he isn't that
guy consistently. And so you need to build a team
more like how the Eagles did and how did they
do it. They put together a great offensive line, and
(17:47):
then defensively they have elite play. They just have theyve
got too many great guys on the defensive line that
you can handle, and they make plays in the back end.
And I think that's the what's the next step for
the Cardinals. I think offensively they need to show up
that offensive line a little bit. I think they need
(18:07):
the development from their playmakers offensively, but they need and
what they didn't have this year is that their defensive
line just ran out of bodies. They need bodies that
are playmakers up front, and they need better playmaking on
the back end. And and and if they're getting pressure,
if they're getting pressure gets what could happen if they're
if they're making more of an impact on the pass rush,
(18:28):
if they're getting more hits, more pressures, more sacks. You know,
it's one hundred percent is gonna happen to the back end.
They're gonna get it. They're gonna get turnovers because that's
what happens when you have a dynamic pass.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Rush, right and you I mean, and and to your point, Jess,
like we're talking about an eel's roster that you know,
one of the things that we've complained about. And again
we don't mean like we don't want to this to
be misconstrued. But again, the way the Cardinals have built,
(19:04):
and I know they're trying to change it, but the
way the Cardinals have built is just such a fool's
Errand it starts with and again leader Fantastic, their highest
and best defensive player being a safety and that's again
not a shot at Buddha, but the fact that their
(19:27):
best defensive player is a safety typically means you have
a bad defense. And not because you can't have a
great safety like an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu that
you know takes your defense to the next level. But
when you're talking about your best defensive player being a
safety and you have a bottom, you know, third defense
(19:51):
in the NFL, that's that's what an issue is. And
you look at the Eagles and where they've invested, and
you know they're inside linebackers. Zach Bond was a was
a free agent pick up this year. NA Kobe Dean
(20:13):
was a third round pick. C J. Gardner Johnson, they're
starting safety, was a free agent that they re signed
after letting him go, right, They let him go after
after the twenty two Super Bowl and and then brought
him back this year on a very, you know, kind
(20:35):
of low end deal. Reed Blankenship is a was a
you know, undrafted free agent like those are those are
the guys that lead the team in tackles, but they're
not their best players. And and don't get me wrong,
(20:56):
obviously seeing Bond making a Pro first team he's a
very talented player and he had a great year. But
but their best players are all these guys up front, right,
And that's where they've invested, and that's where they've put
their their money and their and their assets. And that's
one of the things that you and I have just
we've talked about over and over and I think it's
(21:19):
happening finally, which is what you know, we're excited about.
But we have to be a little patient with it too, right,
Like we have to understand that it you know, they
didn't get all these guys in one offseason. You know,
Josh Sweat they drafted in twenty eighteen. And by the way,
Josh Shwett was a fourth round pick and worked out.
(21:43):
You know, you look at you look at Milton Williams,
he was a third round pick. But he's a rotational guy.
With with Jordan Davis, who's a first round pick, with
Jalen Carter, who's our first round. Like they they invest
over over and over at these same positions, top one
hundred picks. And I talked about it and wrote about
(22:05):
it the other day. The Cardinals prior to Monte Austin
fort they just didn't that wasn't that wasn't what And
you know, we can rehash this over and over, and
I'm sure we will this offseason. But for whatever reason,
I'm was always chasing ghost, right, like he was always
(22:27):
trying to find his Daryl Washington Carlos Dansby team. Again,
like the fact that the Cardinals never and I genuinely
mean never took a top two round cornerback after Patrick
Peterson until Byron Murphy in two thousand seven or sorry,
(22:52):
eight draft years apart, is absurd, Like it's one of
the most absurd things you can think about, that a
team just never took a corner in the top two rounds.
I mean their highest corner taken was Jamel Fleming, who
was a bus Like.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
It was just it was just absurd.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
You sad, like you go back to all of them, right,
you know, you look at it. Robert kimdj was the
only the only defensive lineman that they took in the
first two rounds, the only one in Steve Kimes entire
draft era. Like that again is absurd. And and you
(23:46):
had a guy like Rodney Gunter who worked out for
a while, right, that was a good fourth round pick,
but he should have been. He should have been the
Milton Williams type right that he's rotating in with these
two first round studs, and he's able to come in
fresh and really make an impact. But instead it was like, Okay, Rodney,
you're a starter as a fourth round rookie. Like that's
(24:09):
just that was just a mismanagement. So now fast forward,
they're doing it, but we also have to acknowledge that
they're so far behind in it that it makes it
really tough. And again, you have a guy Dante Still's
perfect example. You have a guy that looks like a
diamond in the rough, right, probably not probably not a
(24:32):
high end starter, but he looks like a guy eight
sacks and two seasons, six round pick, looks like a
guy that can be a rotational contributor in the NFL.
Now you need Darius Robinson. Now you need, you know,
a pick or two from the twenty twenty five draft
to make it so Dante Stills isn't your best defensive lineman.
(24:55):
And again, this is no shot at Dante Stills. But
when Dante Stills is your best lineman, you are doing
a terrible job. And that's what they have to overcome.
And I think they're like, like I said, it's it's
great to see because it's I feel like it's coming.
I feel like that's been the focus the first two
(25:16):
drafts is stacking premiere or not premier, but like premium
positions along the offensive and defensive line and at corner.
But they're gonna have to continue to do it because
unlike quarterback right where there's just one on like running
back where there's just one you need. I mean for
(25:39):
the Cardinals, apparently you need like twelve defensive linemen, but
you know for most teams, you need what five or
six that can that can come in and make an impact. Yeah,
and that's and that's what they failed to do. And
that's what the blueprint is. Because you mentioned it. With
Kansas City, they're gonna have to reset because they've tried.
(26:00):
But Kingsley's wuo am My Taia looks like a bust.
I mean, he's a first year guy. But when you're
going to DJ Humphries and then venturing DJ Humphries to
kick a guard out to left tackle and then playing
you know, Frank Calliando's little brother or whoever it was,
I don't know, at left guard, like it's a it's
a bad look.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Oh, and then you've got Tray Smith. Like Tray Smith might.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Leave right and so and so like like you said,
it's they're gonna have to reset that. And part of
it is hitting on those picks. It's not just picking
guys at those positions, it's hitting on them. But at
least we're seeing Monty Assin fort but that, you know,
take the bites of the apple, because we talked about
it too before the show. Just one of the most
(26:46):
important things in drafting is luck. Health is obviously the
biggest of that. Luck, right, but luck, I mean, we
talked about it. They drafted Andre Dillard in twenty twenty one.
I want to say, uh, to be the team's franchise
left tackle to take over. I don't even know if
he's still in the league. He might be. He's definitely
(27:07):
not with the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, he signed with someone last offseason and ended up
being not a starter.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I'm pretty sure so.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
But they have a very good to great left tackle
that they drafted in the seventh round the year before. Again,
luck is important just as much as just as much
as you know, putting getting or investing those Yeah, investing
in those positions. We talked about it. You know, Jalen Rager.
(27:36):
They took Jalen Rager over Justin like literally the pick
before Justin Jefferson. They're not hurting for wide receiver talent.
I mean, don't don't get me wrong. I'm sure they'd
love to have Justin Jefferson, but it's not like they're like,
you know, so so even the greats, even Howie Roseman,
makes mistakes, but he keeps going back to the well,
(27:56):
right and he and then because the more you you
add guys, the more you invest, the more to those positions,
the more lucky you can have. And like, oh, we
missed on Jalen Rigor, but we're able to trade for
aj Brown.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Well and they keep.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
What they do is also they what the Cardinals candidates
with some success a long time ago, is that they
foresee future needs from their stars. Like they envisioned Javon
Hargrave having leaving, so they had defensive tackles. They saw
Fletcher Cox that's so No, Jordan Davis's draft and Jalen
(28:34):
Carter was drafted. They they foresaw Hassan Reddick leaving, so
they drafted Nolan Smith. Yeah, Nolan Smith.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
No, And you're exactly right, Jess. And that's and again
that's why we have to have a little patience with Monty,
because he came in and it was bear. I mean,
there was just no there was no depth, there was
no high end talent. I mean, again, I love Trey,
love Buddha, but when your best players are a tight
end and safety, you've got a long long road to
(29:08):
hoe and so and so that's to your point, right,
how he said, Okay, uh, their left tackle forever, I
can't even remember who it was. You know, he's getting
up there. So we gotta we gotta be ready. And
then they drafted Andre Dillard. He sucked and so but
then this guy Jordan may Alotta, Holy crap, he's really good, right,
(29:31):
and and so they got away with it. And and
so that's just kind.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Of Jason Peters.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Jon Peters, Yes, thank you. And and so that's how
you do it. I mean, who's the guy in uh
in Chicago? Now Edwards right that we talked about Edwards?
Speaker 3 (29:52):
T J.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Edwards, Right? T J. Edwards all pro level player for
Philly under Jonathan Gannon. They drafting to Kobe Dean. Everybody's going,
what why are we taking to Kobe Dean, We have
young TJ. Edwards, Kaiser White is playing fantastic, and they
drafting to Kobe Dean and now know Kobe Dean's the starter,
and they just go pick up Zach Bond off the
(30:13):
street and it's like, no big deal, and that's what
it's And now you talk about like Jeremiah Trotter junior, right,
he's the next guy in line. Because they're talking about, oh,
we're gonna let Zack Bond go. They're letting go an
all Pro linebacker, and Cardinals fans are like, uh, you know,
I think we need to re sign you know Mark
(30:34):
and and again we love Will Hernanez, but I think
we need to resign Will Hernandez. Like you can't let well,
look at what he is for the team in the community.
I'm like, wait, the Super Bowl champs are letting go
and all Pro and we're like, hey, we got to
retain this, you know guard who's been very good, but
you know, just blew out his knee. He's gonna be thirty.
(30:56):
Like it's just it. And again they probably have to
because they.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Don't I don't have anything right.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
So that's that's what the issue has become. Whereas when
you're the Eagles and you draft well and you, as
you said, prepare, all of a sudden you're like, okay,
good luck, Zach, thanks for the Thanks for the Super
Bowl championship, Thanks for being an all pro for us.
Go get paid by the Arizona Cardinals. Go get paid
by another team, you know, twelve million dollars a year.
(31:25):
We're not going to pay that. And then we'll just
insert Jeremiah Trotter. We'll take our lumps for a year,
and then in your you know, in his second year,
starting his third year in the league, he'll be a force. Yes,
it's it's just that's what great organizations do and that's
how they maintain year to year.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Coming on next to the risis here with podcast Minister
Cardinals talk on the web. Let's talk about some specific
reagents that seem to fit some needs the Cardinals had.
Let's come to next and Rise Ups you read, We're
back on the rises he read podcast.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
The Sarfic Cardinals talk on the web. Free agents from
the the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
We're not gonna do this like with every team, but
it was in particularly noticeable with the with the Eagles,
and there are two names in particular, all over Cardinals Twitter,
that guys are like, oh, we got I got it. And
I actually wrote about the three are four there were
there are four Eagles free agents that would slide right
(32:22):
into needs that the Cardinals drastically need. So the four
guys I noted Josh Sweet, Milton Williams, Mackai Beckton, and
Zach Bond. But the two guys that everyone are talking,
everyone is talking about happened to be Sweat and Williams.
And for good reason, because one Sweat had eight sacks
(32:44):
from the season that both were dominant. They combined for
four and a half sacks in the Super Bowl. Sweat
looked incredible. Wilton, Milton Williams was a playmaker. And could
the Cardinals use more depth on the defensive line, Yes, absolutely,
do they need an edge?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Does Josh Sweat probably fit what the Cardinals need, you know, probably?
And he had his best season when Jonathan Gannon was
his defensive coordinator back in twenty twenty two. Josh Sweats
per year that year and and you know he had
(33:23):
eleven sacks and over the last four years sieve seven
and a half eleven. Then that dipped in twenty twenty
three to six and a half in this past year
eight and then he had he didn't have any the playoffs.
He had a two and a half in the in
the postseason. But you know, to me, of those two,
(33:46):
Sweat kind of makes sense because he's already at a starter.
The Cardinals have a big need at the ad outside
linebacker where he would play.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Is he would you say that he is a match
for the Cardinals?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I mean yeah, I mean obviously, and they need talent.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
He ain't coming cheap though, he not coming cheap.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
And that's what it comes down to for all of
this is and you know, we can only go off
of what projections. So PFF, I know, spot tracks everybody's favorite,
but I really do think PFF does a really good
job with the free agency projections. They're not you know,
they're not always right on, but they they actually have
(34:32):
some agents and lawyers and things like that that help out.
And it's it's interesting to see what it is because
when you look at like Josh Sweat, for instance, how
much how high would you be willing to go? Right like,
how high up would you be willing.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
He is he twenty million a year?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I'm like the market might say that I think reasonable
low end is you know, three years forty five, three
years forty eight, and.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
But well they and so they have three years fifty four,
So that's eighteen million a year. I right, there is
probably where I would be because I'd be fine, yeah,
paying him up front, you know, thirty five million over
the first two years guaranteed, and then you go, okay,
we'll see what you can do after that. But you know,
at the on the flip side, Milton Williams, he's he's
(35:31):
younger by what two years. Yes, he's he plays a
bigger position of need. I think you and I would agree,
But he's also going to cost well here's the thing,
for three to four million more a year.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
He's going to be like if you look at if
you look at his year last year, he compares favorably
to Justin Jones, And what did the Cardinal pay Justin
Jones ten million a year for three years? Milton Williams
has been a rotational guy. And and now the Cardinals
(36:10):
don't really need a starter. They need to starting quality, right,
But I Milton Williams is looking for a Justin Jones
type deal.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Well, then they're projecting he's going to get twenty million
a year.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Holy cow, that's wild.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Yeah. So that's that's where because to your point, like
this was his highest in terms of playing time in
his career. He played six hundred and fifty three regular
season snaps. That doesn't include postseason obviously, and you go
back to Jones, right, and that was less than Jones
(36:54):
was playing in Chicago. Now, again, Jones wasn't shared wearing
reps with Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter. But so it's
so that's the question you have to ask because Williams
(37:14):
obviously a huge get two and a half sacks, force fumble,
played amazing, but one, are you capable? Because that's that's
why he's probably gonna leave Philly because Philly can't put
a rotational defensive end under the under a contract for
let's just even call it sixty million, even right, three year,
(37:37):
sixty million dollars. Philly can't do that with a rotational
guy because Jordan Davis is coming up, and Jalen Carter's
coming up, and Jalden Carter's going to get a hundred
million over four years. So I mean, they can't do that.
So so that's what you're asking yourself. You're saying hey,
I'm gonna pay. I'm gonna pay Milton Williams. Again, this
(38:00):
is no shot at Milton Williams. Fantastic player, doing a
great job, but I'm gonna pay Milton Williams X. That
coincides with guys that are elite, right playing more than
(38:21):
he does. Chris Jones obviously, Christian Wilkins had a bad
down year, and and quite frankly, you know Christian Wilkins,
Deforce Buckner, who's very good, Draymont Jones, like all those
guys are are the cautionary tales of why you're like,
(38:42):
I want to pay this guy that's never played this much.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Honestly, like the projects of twenty minute. I think that's
I think that's high.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I think he's gonna get something more like like Justin
Jones at ten in a year, or or Jordan Phillips
got when he got three years thirty million.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
I think it's gonna be closer to that.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Even that even that, would he want to come to
Arizona with the role that they have because they've got
Justin Doe's, they've got billall Nichols that they've locked them up.
They had three year deals and this year they're they're
locked in. They just drafted Darius Robinson round one. Would
Milton Williams want to come to a thing? And and
(39:22):
the Cardinals couldn't pay him more than ten million a year,
And because that would push you could at least maybe
push Blond Nichols at that four and a half number,
I guess, I guess it's probably closer to seven to
a backup. But like he's not like, while he fits
a need they have, he doesn't fit the roster need
(39:43):
in terms of match role and money because of what
they did last year.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Yeah, and that's the thing is this is a you know,
it's a fickle market too. And so with with the
jump in, with a jump in salary cap, with the
important of what just happened, I think you're gonna see
some some outlandish figures come around and and I won't
(40:13):
be surprised if he ends up getting twenty million a year.
Now to your point, I don't think I would do that. No,
what about Zach Bond, Like the Cardinals.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Don't.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I mean, they paid mac Wilson a decent amounts, but
like spot Treck projects him of getting what almost ten
million a year?
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Yeah, about twelve? So I mean are you willing to do?
You know, a three year, thirty to forty million dollar deal,
that's what you're looking at basically.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
You know, if Kaiser is leaving, I wouldn't mind that,
but I think he'd be a good fit as well.
And then Beckton, I have more questions about because like,
the dude is a behemoth like and and something you
(41:03):
said a number of times about guys his side. He's
three hundred and sixty pounds, right, And what has been
his issue other than this year? It hasn't necessarily been
play as it has been consistently been being on the field.
And like he's built like a tackle, and he's supposed
to be really good tackle because he.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Moves so well.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
But can you count on somebody who's three hundred and
sixty three pounds to stay healthy because three hundred and
sixty pounds men are not supposed to move like him
that they're that's not supposed to happen. And I do
like the build that he could play guard, he could
play tackle, and he's he's very strong and he can
(41:45):
move well enough to play inside. But I guess that
the time in New York I think has me a
little bit worried and what the Cardinals get a guy
that but big to play inside.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Well, another thing you have to remember too, is that
when you're talking about Philly offensive line, they probably have
the best offensive line coach in the NFL. And so
when you are looking at this overall, when you're looking
(42:22):
at this overall, it's like, are you really to your
point wanting to pay a guye you know, probably between
eight and ten million a year for one good season,
because that's the thing. He's going to be twenty six,
so he's probably gonna look for a three to He'll
probably look between a two and a four year deal.
(42:42):
I would guess he'd be willing to do like a
two year, twenty million dollar deal to see if you
can get a four year, you know, sixty million dollar
deal coming off of that. Yeah, but it's a man Eagles,
Eagles offensive line and scare me because Stalin is literally
the best guy in the NFL, And are you going
(43:05):
to get that somewhere else?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Right?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Right?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
And so well, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be opposed
to it. I'm cautious towards Becton, especially especially since.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
It was the first year he was healthy. You do
what he's gonna be looking to get paid.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So I do like any and all of those guys,
Sweat I think would end up making the most sense
because it need.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
I think so, because with the need and with how
the market works, if you're able to get Sweat at twenty,
you know, between eighteen and twenty a year, because that's
outside of age, he's gonna play more downs, yes, than
than Milton Williams. And I think you and I can
(43:55):
agree those are the two biggest needs for the team
and so addressing it in that way I think would
make the most sense. And the other thing is there's
not there's not a ton of guys to work with
at edge. There are well, especially ones that are not
(44:17):
old right right right, because you can go Kluil Macroson.
But there are probably four to six interior defensive linemen
that I'd be like, oh, yeah, I think that's a
that's a good fit for this team. Yeah, whereas Sweats
really kind of I mean, there's one other one that
we'll talk about in another show.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, And with that we will wrap up this edition
of the Rises Here podcast. Bestier of Cardinal's talking. Well,
we'll see if we'll do another show this coming week.
Next we'll see what happens with next week. We will
go kind of plan things out, but we will shoot
for another show this next week and then we'll we'll
see what happens is we've got the Combine coming out.
We still got free agencies, so we've got a little
prep for that. But this wraps up episode six forty.
(45:00):
That seth Cox. I'm Jessfer, Thanks for listening. As always,
we'll be back again soon.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
Thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher Radio, Audio Boom,
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(45:26):
We'll be back soon for the best hour of cardinals
talk on the web, Rise Up Red, CEA, b Red
Sea Red, and of course Rise Up Sea Red.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Raise these it
Zz h.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast all about
the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and outsider perspectives.
Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web.
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Cox, Alerzona Cardinals fans, and welcome to the latest edition
of the Rise of Series podcast of us are Cardinals
Talk on the Web. I'm your host Jess Root from
cardswire dot com, the USA TODA, NFL wireside the covers
Arizona Cardinals recording with my co host Seth Cox from
Revenge of the Birds dot com, esp nations Arizona Cardinals
(00:48):
site as we record episode six hundred and forty, the
post super Bowl episode.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
That we're going to talk about that. We're going to
talk about the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
The Eagles championship win, what we can learn, So there
was stuff we can learn about that from the Cardinals,
and then we will look at in particular some Eagles
free agents that we might think makes sense and whether
they'll be targets or not. To Seth, I guess first
and foremost, and we were talking about it before the show.
(01:19):
This wasn't a particularly enjoyable Super Bowl. This this for me,
this is like a reminder of late nineties, early two
thousand Super Bowls, which oft times were not competitive, especially
in the nineties, they were not competitive.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I remember those when I was a teenager.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
No, it was it was yeah, it was a tough watch, man,
I mean it was not fun to watch. You saw
a lot of bad football on both sides for a
little bit and then and then the Eagles just ended
up overwhelming the Chiefs. The Chiefs looked and and by
the way, Andy Reid is a Hall of Fame level coach,
(01:57):
one of the probably inching into the time five in
terms of coaching all time, but man, he did not
have a good game plan for this one that the
Eagles look ill prepared. And just you know, buddy of mine,
Billy m on on X talked about it a couple
(02:20):
of weeks ago, kind of taking a shot at Ryan
Day when he was doing it, but you know, kind
of mentioning it like talent can overcome coaching when the
talent is that abundant. And he was talking about Ohio
State winning the national championship and he said, oh, by
the way, when the Eagles win the Super Bowl, like
(02:44):
and that's kind of what it was, right, Like we
saw just an overwhelming group of talent, you know, the
end of the end of a regime, basically kind of
the last great gasp for this particular set of Eagles,
and it was it's very similar to the year that
(03:05):
they won in twenty seventeen, because.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
The Eagles are now officially three pre breakers, because it
was it was they were up against the Patriots who
were set to win their third in a row. Nick
Foles foiled that they did it again, and we look
at that the Super Bowl, the number of games that
we talked about the Cardinals, this was almost one of
(03:28):
those things is that they started badly offensively, and it's
steamrolled because they went, you know, one first down, punt,
three and out, three and out interception, and they were
(03:49):
luckily and lucky enough that in those in the first
four possessions it was only ten to nothing because they
had gotten the punt, they forced the punt on the
first drive and gotten the but then for the rest
of the the Chiefs picked up one first down in
(04:09):
the entire first half. And we've seen like things steamroll
like for the Cardinals, and that's exactly what happened. Is
that things just got out of hand and they never
got and had they been able to score once in
the first half, I think this game goes wildly different.
But the Eagles then just poured it on. And while
(04:34):
in my case, I believed the Chiefs would win, this
sort of game didn't completely surprise me because Philly has
the talent to do it. I just didn't expect the
Chiefs to look so completely overmatched from the very start
of the game. It's like Philly's Philly's defensive line, well,
(04:57):
like that makeshift offensive line that the chief have been
running with it finally, like.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
That house of cards fell very, very poorly.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
And what was the other time that we saw Patrick
Mahomes losing the Super Bowl? It was because Tampa Bay
was able to get consistent pressure. And that's what they did.
Is that Mahomes didn't have time to do anything like
the dancing he does in the pocket, be able to
step up. He just there was no he had no time,
he wasn't being he wasn't able to step up and
(05:28):
break free of the proc pocket And it was just
it was just a masterful performance on both sides of
the ball by the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Well, I think there's a twofold thing to this. Ess.
I think the first thing is part of the reason
we didn't expect this or it was a little surprising
to see the blowout, is because the Eagles have been
so inconsistent all here. You and I were kind of
talking about beforehand, Right, they win a game in Brazil
against the Packers, then they go and lose to the
Atlanta Falcons. Then they went a fifteen twelve game against
(06:00):
the New Orleans Saints, who are terrible as we as
we know at the end of the season, and then
they get blown out by Tampa Bay, right, and then
you kind of just look at their season, right, twenty
sixteen over the Browns, but then they blow out the
Giants and the Bengals, then they barely beat the Jaguars,
then they blow out the Cowboys, you know, hang on
(06:21):
against the Commanders at blow out the Rams, hang on
to beat the Ravens, and then they almost get upset
remember in Week fourteen, by the Panthers, and everybody's just
kind of like, what is this team like? It makes
no sense? And then and then obviously game one of
the of the postseason, they kind of just toy with
(06:43):
Green Bay. But then they struggle with the Rams and
never really put it away, and it takes you know,
the weather and all this, all these outside things, and
you're like, all right, what is this team? Like why
are they? But they came in, they were focused and
they were ready. And then it on the flip side
for the Chiefs, you just saw, like, like you said,
(07:06):
it was a house of cards all year they and
I don't want people to take this the wrong way,
but you just saw that this was held together by
one Patrick Mahomes's greatness and then kind of duct tape
and glue. I mean, we're talking.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
About great defense all year, and their defense honestly didn't
like the game plan of slow down Saquon Barkley. They
did it right. He had fifty seven yards of the
entire game. But it was that it was offensively where
they were just surviving. Because this year the Chiefs were
very good defensively and did just enough offensively, and late
(07:47):
in the year it looked like they were gonna kind
of get on a roll.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
But the the inconsistency at receiver.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
After Ahi Rice got down went down, and Worthy being
a rookie and Travis Kelcey not looking like Travis Kelcey
of the year's past, and he like, I don't know
if that that was it for him, but and then
the offensive line just piecedme on it. So they knew
how to win games late, but it looks like they
just ran out of magic. And I kept waiting, like
(08:18):
is it gonna be? Is this gonna be the matt
And that part of it was just tongue in cheek
and like, okay, they're down twenty four to nothing, is
this gonna be mahomes Is matching? And it just didn't
happen because the offense couldn't do anything. They just he
he was under too much presce he was hit well,
he was sacked six times and then one four or five, six, seven, eight,
(08:42):
nights hit eleven times. He was under pressure constantly, naturally.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
And not just that just but remember the Eagles didn't
have to blitz, and that was always that's the worst
part of it, right, And that was always the same
way that Brady lost, right, Like we always talk about this,
the way that radios teams was teams that could get
pressure with four and and drop seven and cause rekavoc
(09:09):
on the back end because the front end was doing
so much work and we saw the same thing here.
It's it's the way you be any team or the
way you win consistently. And that's kind of the whole
moral of the story, right just is that you've got
a group that had done a nice job. They've they've
(09:32):
you know, been together for a while, and but it
was always going to come to this end because it's
just the reality of the NFL. You can't keep everybody.
I mean you can, but guys have to sacrifice. And
there's no one that's going to sacrifice their their financial
(09:57):
stability for the rest of their life to win another
I mean, they got one. And we saw that with
Tyreek Hill, right, Like Tyreek Hill wanted as to maximize
his financial you know, gains in his career and he
was like I got a Super Bowl, like now it's
about me and and that's and that's how it goes.
(10:18):
And so the Eagles are gonna, you know, feel that
they've done a good job of preparing and we'll talk about,
you know, the guys that they'll be losing, but they've
done as good of a job as they can to prepare.
But it's still not going to be the same. I mean,
you're still losing guys that were difference makers and you're
(10:44):
replacing them with guys that you vote can be difference makers.
Like that's the that's how it goes. But then there's
also the reality and a conversation we're going to have
shortly of are and this is the conversation we have
about Georgia Bama. You know, now Ohio State defensive players
all the time, right, just are they that good or
(11:09):
are they a product of a system that allows them
to be great? And so that's that's what we're gonna
have to figure out this offseason because we've already seen it. Man,
the clamoring, right, the clamoring for a couple of these
guys already is is very very strong.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yes, I will say one thing.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
That rodes well for Kansas City the game that Xavier
Worthy had, he's gonna be good, if he's gonna.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Be good, Yeah, and that and I just completely spaced it.
That was my other point, Like, let's be honest, Kansas
City had a bunch of names on offense, but they
didn't really have a lot of talent.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
No, DeAndre Hopp, de Andrew Hopkins apparently watched Hollywood Brown.
I mean, you can't like we loved what Hollywood had
the potential for it. Guess what Hollywood isn't very Hollywood.
I guess undure the bright lights. He's inconsistent. Kelsey is
on his last legs. We'll see if he comes back.
(12:14):
But yeah, and so they're their top playmakers, like the
running Back Committee that they had ended up being Barfie
and everybody and Isaiah's Pacheco combined for sixteen yards.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
And everybody's been saying right, and I shouldn't say everybody,
but intelligent chiefs fans have been saying like, this isn't
This isn't how you want it to look, right, Like
these guys. We love what Kareem Hump came in and
(12:49):
did this year. We love what Isaiah Pacheco has done
in the past, but this isn't This just wasn't that.
And it's just it's wild to me that fans and
I get it, I mean they're fans. They were like,
oh no, it's fine because like my buddies that are
chief fans and I said this the other day, like
(13:10):
my buddies that are chief fans, that's been one of
their things the whole time. They're like, they're like, it's
you know it's Mahomes, Like Mahomes has to make magic
and if it doesn't happen, it's there's not enough talent
on offense. And we saw that come to fruition. Like
it's it's wild to think that that a team that's
been to three straight Super Bowls won the two previous
(13:32):
that a guy that's never not played in the in
the AC Championship since he started playing or started as
a quarterback in the NFL. And people are saying like, oh,
he's got to, you know, do it again by himself.
And he almost did it. I mean, I know the
(13:54):
game wasn't close, but the fact that they were there
again with this this group is is absurd because drift
from a talent perspective, they were just so overmatched most
of the season.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, come out of an next on the resids here
podcasts are Cardinals Talk on the Web? Now, now let's
turn the corner and talk about what we can learn
for this for the Cardinals. That's kind of an ex
and rise ups he read We're back on the rise
of here podcast Best are Cardinals Talk on the Web?
I think the first thing when we when we saw
the Eagles win the Super Bowl is what can we
(14:30):
take away from that?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And the Cardinals in a wave.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
If you're if you're kind of looking at things, you're
there are some things like what are they missing? And
and you can point to two things in particular about
how these two rosters are put together. The two things
that the Eagles that stood out in that Super Bowl,
the two things that absolutely stood out was the pass
(14:56):
rush efficiency, the pressure and the play making like the turnovers.
And you point out the stat that there had been
never been a a Super Bowl champion that had forced
fewer than three turnovers in the playoffs, and you know
that continue to be the case.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I looked at some of the numbers.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So the Cardinals were very bottom half of the league,
bottom third of the league in sacks this year, and
and and the turnovers they forced seventeen takeaways the entire year.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We've had this discussion on the show several times.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
The Eagles had thirteen takeaways in four preseason games and.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So postseason postseason, yeah, postseason games.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
And and so you look at two things, is that
the two things that really separated the Eagles from the
Cardinals on a large scale is the fact the Eagles
could affect opposing quarterbacks and not have to do fancy
things to do it.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And two they took the ball away.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And those are the two things that the Cardinals scrappy
defense just didn't do. They didn't get to the quarterback
without adding extra pressure, and they didn't take the ball away.
And so while they did have some effectiveness in the
second half of the ear they were a better defensive
They weren't terrible, but they were a survival defensive team
(16:22):
because they couldn't make plays, so they couldn't get sacks,
and they couldn't take the ball away. And so I
think if you look at the kind of the offense
skill set, like if you look at the Eagles and
you look at the Cardinals side by side offensively, you
kind of get like, the Eagles have an elite running back. Yes,
the Cardinals have a great running back in James Connor.
(16:44):
The receiving corps, you obviously Phillies is better than the Cardinals,
but you kind of see what the Cardinals are building there.
Both have great tight ends. The offensive line the Eagles.
The Eagles this year, their offensive is fantastic. The Cardinals
didn't get bad offensive line play, and then their quarterback.
I'm still gonna say this, even though Jalen Hurts has
(17:04):
accomplished more in his career, he is more game managery
than Kyler Murray. I think Kyler Murray is a more
talented quarterback, a better quarterback. He just hasn't accomplished as much.
And so, but if you look at the way that
the Eagles built this roster, you can kind of go
with the Cardinals because is Kyler Murray the standalone star,
(17:27):
like one of the elite four, Like he's gonna carry
the guy the team like Joe Burrow or Lamar Jackson
or josh Anna Patrick Mahomes. I think we've reached the
point where while he can do that, he isn't that
guy consistently. And so you need to build a team
more like how the Eagles did and how did they
do it. They put together a great offensive line, and
(17:47):
then defensively they have elite play. They just have theyve
got too many great guys on the defensive line that
you can handle, and they make plays in the back end.
And I think that's the what's the next step for
the Cardinals. I think offensively they need to show up
that offensive line a little bit. I think they need
(18:07):
the development from their playmakers offensively, but they need and
what they didn't have this year is that their defensive
line just ran out of bodies. They need bodies that
are playmakers up front, and they need better playmaking on
the back end. And and and if they're getting pressure,
if they're getting pressure gets what could happen if they're
if they're making more of an impact on the pass rush,
(18:28):
if they're getting more hits, more pressures, more sacks. You know,
it's one hundred percent is gonna happen to the back end.
They're gonna get it. They're gonna get turnovers because that's
what happens when you have a dynamic pass.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Rush, right and you I mean, and and to your point, Jess,
like we're talking about an eel's roster that you know,
one of the things that we've complained about. And again
we don't mean like we don't want to this to
be misconstrued. But again, the way the Cardinals have built,
(19:04):
and I know they're trying to change it, but the
way the Cardinals have built is just such a fool's
Errand it starts with and again leader Fantastic, their highest
and best defensive player being a safety and that's again
not a shot at Buddha, but the fact that their
(19:27):
best defensive player is a safety typically means you have
a bad defense. And not because you can't have a
great safety like an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu that
you know takes your defense to the next level. But
when you're talking about your best defensive player being a
safety and you have a bottom, you know, third defense
(19:51):
in the NFL, that's that's what an issue is. And
you look at the Eagles and where they've invested, and
you know they're inside linebackers. Zach Bond was a was
a free agent pick up this year. NA Kobe Dean
(20:13):
was a third round pick. C J. Gardner Johnson, they're
starting safety, was a free agent that they re signed
after letting him go, right, They let him go after
after the twenty two Super Bowl and and then brought
him back this year on a very, you know, kind
(20:35):
of low end deal. Reed Blankenship is a was a
you know, undrafted free agent like those are those are
the guys that lead the team in tackles, but they're
not their best players. And and don't get me wrong,
(20:56):
obviously seeing Bond making a Pro first team he's a
very talented player and he had a great year. But
but their best players are all these guys up front, right,
And that's where they've invested, and that's where they've put
their their money and their and their assets. And that's
one of the things that you and I have just
we've talked about over and over and I think it's
(21:19):
happening finally, which is what you know, we're excited about.
But we have to be a little patient with it too, right,
Like we have to understand that it you know, they
didn't get all these guys in one offseason. You know,
Josh Sweat they drafted in twenty eighteen. And by the way,
Josh Shwett was a fourth round pick and worked out.
(21:43):
You know, you look at you look at Milton Williams,
he was a third round pick. But he's a rotational guy.
With with Jordan Davis, who's a first round pick, with
Jalen Carter, who's our first round. Like they they invest
over over and over at these same positions, top one
hundred picks. And I talked about it and wrote about
(22:05):
it the other day. The Cardinals prior to Monte Austin
fort they just didn't that wasn't that wasn't what And
you know, we can rehash this over and over, and
I'm sure we will this offseason. But for whatever reason,
I'm was always chasing ghost, right, like he was always
(22:27):
trying to find his Daryl Washington Carlos Dansby team. Again,
like the fact that the Cardinals never and I genuinely
mean never took a top two round cornerback after Patrick
Peterson until Byron Murphy in two thousand seven or sorry,
(22:52):
eight draft years apart, is absurd, Like it's one of
the most absurd things you can think about, that a
team just never took a corner in the top two rounds.
I mean their highest corner taken was Jamel Fleming, who
was a bus Like.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
It was just it was just absurd.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
You sad, like you go back to all of them, right,
you know, you look at it. Robert kimdj was the
only the only defensive lineman that they took in the
first two rounds, the only one in Steve Kimes entire
draft era. Like that again is absurd. And and you
(23:46):
had a guy like Rodney Gunter who worked out for
a while, right, that was a good fourth round pick,
but he should have been. He should have been the
Milton Williams type right that he's rotating in with these
two first round studs, and he's able to come in
fresh and really make an impact. But instead it was like, Okay, Rodney,
you're a starter as a fourth round rookie. Like that's
(24:09):
just that was just a mismanagement. So now fast forward,
they're doing it, but we also have to acknowledge that
they're so far behind in it that it makes it
really tough. And again, you have a guy Dante Still's
perfect example. You have a guy that looks like a
diamond in the rough, right, probably not probably not a
(24:32):
high end starter, but he looks like a guy eight
sacks and two seasons, six round pick, looks like a
guy that can be a rotational contributor in the NFL.
Now you need Darius Robinson. Now you need, you know,
a pick or two from the twenty twenty five draft
to make it so Dante Stills isn't your best defensive lineman.
(24:55):
And again, this is no shot at Dante Stills. But
when Dante Stills is your best lineman, you are doing
a terrible job. And that's what they have to overcome.
And I think they're like, like I said, it's it's
great to see because it's I feel like it's coming.
I feel like that's been the focus the first two
(25:16):
drafts is stacking premiere or not premier, but like premium
positions along the offensive and defensive line and at corner.
But they're gonna have to continue to do it because
unlike quarterback right where there's just one on like running
back where there's just one you need. I mean for
(25:39):
the Cardinals, apparently you need like twelve defensive linemen, but
you know for most teams, you need what five or
six that can that can come in and make an impact. Yeah,
and that's and that's what they failed to do. And
that's what the blueprint is. Because you mentioned it. With
Kansas City, they're gonna have to reset because they've tried.
(26:00):
But Kingsley's wuo am My Taia looks like a bust.
I mean, he's a first year guy. But when you're
going to DJ Humphries and then venturing DJ Humphries to
kick a guard out to left tackle and then playing
you know, Frank Calliando's little brother or whoever it was,
I don't know, at left guard, like it's a it's
a bad look.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Oh, and then you've got Tray Smith. Like Tray Smith might.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Leave right and so and so like like you said,
it's they're gonna have to reset that. And part of
it is hitting on those picks. It's not just picking
guys at those positions, it's hitting on them. But at
least we're seeing Monty Assin fort but that, you know,
take the bites of the apple, because we talked about
it too before the show. Just one of the most
(26:46):
important things in drafting is luck. Health is obviously the
biggest of that. Luck, right, but luck, I mean, we
talked about it. They drafted Andre Dillard in twenty twenty one.
I want to say, uh, to be the team's franchise
left tackle to take over. I don't even know if
he's still in the league. He might be. He's definitely
(27:07):
not with the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, he signed with someone last offseason and ended up
being not a starter.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I'm pretty sure so.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
But they have a very good to great left tackle
that they drafted in the seventh round the year before. Again,
luck is important just as much as just as much
as you know, putting getting or investing those Yeah, investing
in those positions. We talked about it. You know, Jalen Rager.
(27:36):
They took Jalen Rager over Justin like literally the pick
before Justin Jefferson. They're not hurting for wide receiver talent.
I mean, don't don't get me wrong. I'm sure they'd
love to have Justin Jefferson, but it's not like they're like,
you know, so so even the greats, even Howie Roseman,
makes mistakes, but he keeps going back to the well,
(27:56):
right and he and then because the more you you
add guys, the more you invest, the more to those positions,
the more lucky you can have. And like, oh, we
missed on Jalen Rigor, but we're able to trade for
aj Brown.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Well and they keep.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
What they do is also they what the Cardinals candidates
with some success a long time ago, is that they
foresee future needs from their stars. Like they envisioned Javon
Hargrave having leaving, so they had defensive tackles. They saw
Fletcher Cox that's so No, Jordan Davis's draft and Jalen
(28:34):
Carter was drafted. They they foresaw Hassan Reddick leaving, so
they drafted Nolan Smith. Yeah, Nolan Smith.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
No, And you're exactly right, Jess. And that's and again
that's why we have to have a little patience with Monty,
because he came in and it was bear. I mean,
there was just no there was no depth, there was
no high end talent. I mean, again, I love Trey,
love Buddha, but when your best players are a tight
end and safety, you've got a long long road to
(29:08):
hoe and so and so that's to your point, right,
how he said, Okay, uh, their left tackle forever, I
can't even remember who it was. You know, he's getting
up there. So we gotta we gotta be ready. And
then they drafted Andre Dillard. He sucked and so but
then this guy Jordan may Alotta, Holy crap, he's really good, right,
(29:31):
and and so they got away with it. And and
so that's just kind.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Of Jason Peters.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Jon Peters, Yes, thank you. And and so that's how
you do it. I mean, who's the guy in uh
in Chicago? Now Edwards right that we talked about Edwards?
Speaker 3 (29:52):
T J.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Edwards, Right? T J. Edwards all pro level player for
Philly under Jonathan Gannon. They drafting to Kobe Dean. Everybody's going,
what why are we taking to Kobe Dean, We have
young TJ. Edwards, Kaiser White is playing fantastic, and they
drafting to Kobe Dean and now know Kobe Dean's the starter,
and they just go pick up Zach Bond off the
(30:13):
street and it's like, no big deal, and that's what
it's And now you talk about like Jeremiah Trotter junior, right,
he's the next guy in line. Because they're talking about, oh,
we're gonna let Zack Bond go. They're letting go an
all Pro linebacker, and Cardinals fans are like, uh, you know,
I think we need to re sign you know Mark
(30:34):
and and again we love Will Hernanez, but I think
we need to resign Will Hernandez. Like you can't let well,
look at what he is for the team in the community.
I'm like, wait, the Super Bowl champs are letting go
and all Pro and we're like, hey, we got to
retain this, you know guard who's been very good, but
you know, just blew out his knee. He's gonna be thirty.
(30:56):
Like it's just it. And again they probably have to
because they.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Don't I don't have anything right.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
So that's that's what the issue has become. Whereas when
you're the Eagles and you draft well and you, as
you said, prepare, all of a sudden you're like, okay,
good luck, Zach, thanks for the Thanks for the Super
Bowl championship, Thanks for being an all pro for us.
Go get paid by the Arizona Cardinals. Go get paid
by another team, you know, twelve million dollars a year.
(31:25):
We're not going to pay that. And then we'll just
insert Jeremiah Trotter. We'll take our lumps for a year,
and then in your you know, in his second year,
starting his third year in the league, he'll be a force. Yes,
it's it's just that's what great organizations do and that's
how they maintain year to year.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Coming on next to the risis here with podcast Minister
Cardinals talk on the web. Let's talk about some specific
reagents that seem to fit some needs the Cardinals had.
Let's come to next and Rise Ups you read, We're
back on the rises he read podcast.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
The Sarfic Cardinals talk on the web. Free agents from
the the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
We're not gonna do this like with every team, but
it was in particularly noticeable with the with the Eagles,
and there are two names in particular, all over Cardinals Twitter,
that guys are like, oh, we got I got it. And
I actually wrote about the three are four there were
there are four Eagles free agents that would slide right
(32:22):
into needs that the Cardinals drastically need. So the four
guys I noted Josh Sweet, Milton Williams, Mackai Beckton, and
Zach Bond. But the two guys that everyone are talking,
everyone is talking about happened to be Sweat and Williams.
And for good reason, because one Sweat had eight sacks
(32:44):
from the season that both were dominant. They combined for
four and a half sacks in the Super Bowl. Sweat
looked incredible. Wilton, Milton Williams was a playmaker. And could
the Cardinals use more depth on the defensive line, Yes, absolutely,
do they need an edge?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Does Josh Sweat probably fit what the Cardinals need, you know, probably?
And he had his best season when Jonathan Gannon was
his defensive coordinator back in twenty twenty two. Josh Sweats
per year that year and and you know he had
(33:23):
eleven sacks and over the last four years sieve seven
and a half eleven. Then that dipped in twenty twenty
three to six and a half in this past year
eight and then he had he didn't have any the playoffs.
He had a two and a half in the in
the postseason. But you know, to me, of those two,
(33:46):
Sweat kind of makes sense because he's already at a starter.
The Cardinals have a big need at the ad outside
linebacker where he would play.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Is he would you say that he is a match
for the Cardinals?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I mean yeah, I mean obviously, and they need talent.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
He ain't coming cheap though, he not coming cheap.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
And that's what it comes down to for all of
this is and you know, we can only go off
of what projections. So PFF, I know, spot tracks everybody's favorite,
but I really do think PFF does a really good
job with the free agency projections. They're not you know,
they're not always right on, but they they actually have
(34:32):
some agents and lawyers and things like that that help out.
And it's it's interesting to see what it is because
when you look at like Josh Sweat, for instance, how
much how high would you be willing to go? Right like,
how high up would you be willing.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
He is he twenty million a year?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I'm like the market might say that I think reasonable
low end is you know, three years forty five, three
years forty eight, and.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
But well they and so they have three years fifty four,
So that's eighteen million a year. I right, there is
probably where I would be because I'd be fine, yeah,
paying him up front, you know, thirty five million over
the first two years guaranteed, and then you go, okay,
we'll see what you can do after that. But you know,
at the on the flip side, Milton Williams, he's he's
(35:31):
younger by what two years. Yes, he's he plays a
bigger position of need. I think you and I would agree,
But he's also going to cost well here's the thing,
for three to four million more a year.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
He's going to be like if you look at if
you look at his year last year, he compares favorably
to Justin Jones, And what did the Cardinal pay Justin
Jones ten million a year for three years? Milton Williams
has been a rotational guy. And and now the Cardinals
(36:10):
don't really need a starter. They need to starting quality, right,
But I Milton Williams is looking for a Justin Jones
type deal.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Well, then they're projecting he's going to get twenty million
a year.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Holy cow, that's wild.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Yeah. So that's that's where because to your point, like
this was his highest in terms of playing time in
his career. He played six hundred and fifty three regular
season snaps. That doesn't include postseason obviously, and you go
back to Jones, right, and that was less than Jones
(36:54):
was playing in Chicago. Now, again, Jones wasn't shared wearing
reps with Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter. But so it's
so that's the question you have to ask because Williams
(37:14):
obviously a huge get two and a half sacks, force fumble,
played amazing, but one, are you capable? Because that's that's
why he's probably gonna leave Philly because Philly can't put
a rotational defensive end under the under a contract for
let's just even call it sixty million, even right, three year,
(37:37):
sixty million dollars. Philly can't do that with a rotational
guy because Jordan Davis is coming up, and Jalen Carter's
coming up, and Jalden Carter's going to get a hundred
million over four years. So I mean, they can't do that.
So so that's what you're asking yourself. You're saying hey,
I'm gonna pay. I'm gonna pay Milton Williams. Again, this
(38:00):
is no shot at Milton Williams. Fantastic player, doing a
great job, but I'm gonna pay Milton Williams X. That
coincides with guys that are elite, right playing more than
(38:21):
he does. Chris Jones obviously, Christian Wilkins had a bad
down year, and and quite frankly, you know Christian Wilkins,
Deforce Buckner, who's very good, Draymont Jones, like all those
guys are are the cautionary tales of why you're like,
(38:42):
I want to pay this guy that's never played this much.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Honestly, like the projects of twenty minute. I think that's
I think that's high.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I think he's gonna get something more like like Justin
Jones at ten in a year, or or Jordan Phillips
got when he got three years thirty million.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
I think it's gonna be closer to that.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Even that even that, would he want to come to
Arizona with the role that they have because they've got
Justin Doe's, they've got billall Nichols that they've locked them up.
They had three year deals and this year they're they're
locked in. They just drafted Darius Robinson round one. Would
Milton Williams want to come to a thing? And and
(39:22):
the Cardinals couldn't pay him more than ten million a year,
And because that would push you could at least maybe
push Blond Nichols at that four and a half number,
I guess, I guess it's probably closer to seven to
a backup. But like he's not like, while he fits
a need they have, he doesn't fit the roster need
(39:43):
in terms of match role and money because of what
they did last year.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Yeah, and that's the thing is this is a you know,
it's a fickle market too. And so with with the
jump in, with a jump in salary cap, with the
important of what just happened, I think you're gonna see
some some outlandish figures come around and and I won't
(40:13):
be surprised if he ends up getting twenty million a year.
Now to your point, I don't think I would do that. No,
what about Zach Bond, Like the Cardinals.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Don't.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
I mean, they paid mac Wilson a decent amounts, but
like spot Treck projects him of getting what almost ten
million a year?
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Yeah, about twelve? So I mean are you willing to do?
You know, a three year, thirty to forty million dollar deal,
that's what you're looking at basically.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
You know, if Kaiser is leaving, I wouldn't mind that,
but I think he'd be a good fit as well.
And then Beckton, I have more questions about because like,
the dude is a behemoth like and and something you
(41:03):
said a number of times about guys his side. He's
three hundred and sixty pounds, right, And what has been
his issue other than this year? It hasn't necessarily been
play as it has been consistently been being on the field.
And like he's built like a tackle, and he's supposed
to be really good tackle because he.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Moves so well.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
But can you count on somebody who's three hundred and
sixty three pounds to stay healthy because three hundred and
sixty pounds men are not supposed to move like him
that they're that's not supposed to happen. And I do
like the build that he could play guard, he could
play tackle, and he's he's very strong and he can
(41:45):
move well enough to play inside. But I guess that
the time in New York I think has me a
little bit worried and what the Cardinals get a guy
that but big to play inside.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Well, another thing you have to remember too, is that
when you're talking about Philly offensive line, they probably have
the best offensive line coach in the NFL. And so
when you are looking at this overall, when you're looking
(42:22):
at this overall, it's like, are you really to your
point wanting to pay a guye you know, probably between
eight and ten million a year for one good season,
because that's the thing. He's going to be twenty six,
so he's probably gonna look for a three to He'll
probably look between a two and a four year deal.
(42:42):
I would guess he'd be willing to do like a
two year, twenty million dollar deal to see if you
can get a four year, you know, sixty million dollar
deal coming off of that. Yeah, but it's a man Eagles,
Eagles offensive line and scare me because Stalin is literally
the best guy in the NFL, And are you going
(43:05):
to get that somewhere else?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Right?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Right?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
And so well, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be opposed
to it. I'm cautious towards Becton, especially especially since.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
It was the first year he was healthy. You do
what he's gonna be looking to get paid.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So I do like any and all of those guys,
Sweat I think would end up making the most sense
because it need.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
I think so, because with the need and with how
the market works, if you're able to get Sweat at twenty,
you know, between eighteen and twenty a year, because that's
outside of age, he's gonna play more downs, yes, than
than Milton Williams. And I think you and I can
(43:55):
agree those are the two biggest needs for the team
and so addressing it in that way I think would
make the most sense. And the other thing is there's
not there's not a ton of guys to work with
at edge. There are well, especially ones that are not
(44:17):
old right right right, because you can go Kluil Macroson.
But there are probably four to six interior defensive linemen
that I'd be like, oh, yeah, I think that's a
that's a good fit for this team. Yeah, whereas Sweats
really kind of I mean, there's one other one that
we'll talk about in another show.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, And with that we will wrap up this edition
of the Rises Here podcast. Bestier of Cardinal's talking. Well,
we'll see if we'll do another show this coming week.
Next we'll see what happens with next week. We will
go kind of plan things out, but we will shoot
for another show this next week and then we'll we'll
see what happens is we've got the Combine coming out.
We still got free agencies, so we've got a little
prep for that. But this wraps up episode six forty.
(45:00):
That seth Cox. I'm Jessfer, Thanks for listening. As always,
we'll be back again soon.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
Thanks for listening to the latest edition of the Rise
Up Sea Red podcast. Listen to previous episodes and subscribe
to the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher Radio, Audio Boom,
or many other podcast platforms so shows are delivered directly
to your mobile device. Please give the show a five
star RADY and always support the sponsors who support the show.
(45:26):
We'll be back soon for the best hour of cardinals
talk on the web, Rise Up Red, CEA, b Red
Sea Red, and of course Rise Up Sea Red.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Raise these it
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