April 4, 2025 • 57 mins
The Cardinals keep throwing actual news our way as we preview the 2025 NFL draft. Jess and Seth talk about the contract extension for Trey McBride before diving into the offensive line prospects in the 2025 draft. They discuss players to know in the first round, on Day 2 and guys who could be possibilities on Day 3.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Yes, this is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast, all
about the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and
outsider perspectives. Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on
(00:23):
the web.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox
ellos on a Cardinals Fanson.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Welcome to the latest edition of the Rise Up Sea
Red podcast, the best hour Cardinals Talk on the web.
You're I'm your host Jess Root from carswire dot com,
the USA Today NFL wire site that covers Arizona Cardinals.
In our second show of the week, I have my
co host Seth Cox from Revenge of the Verses dot
com eSPI Nations Arizona Cardinals site. It is episode six
(00:55):
hundred and fifty two and it's supposed to be draft preview,
but we've got some extra news to do. We've got
the news. Trey McBride got his extension. Here we are
April third. He's a he's coming off his third season.
The Cardinals have literally never given an extension this early.
(01:17):
I detailed this about two and a half weeks ago
that the history for players getting their extensions when they're
already under contract is July and August Seth. How surprised
were you when the news came down. I mean I
was teaching one of my classes and I got tagged
(01:37):
in slack from our graphics guy to let me know, like, hey,
here's a graphic. I'm like for what, I'm like, Oh, McBride,
I guess I got to get this written.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
McBride gets his deal done April third, not July, not August.
But I guess now we have to talk about other
stuff in the offseason rather than speculate when the deal
is going to get done.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, and it makes sense you and we're talking about
it a little bit off the air, right, like there's
a couple guys coming up that are going to affect
what he gets or what he could have received, and
the biggest one being George Kittle. Right, George Kittle the
(02:23):
highest paid tight end in NFL history when he signed
his original deal in twenty twenty. It's up this year.
I mean, you know, so they're trying to redo the
deal because basically he's taken up twenty two million in
cap space for the forty nine ers. So you're thinking
(02:46):
to yourself, all right, let's get this done. And so
it makes sense if you think about it in this way,
get the deal done before Kittle signs for three because
he's thirty two, right, so he's he's not going to
sign a four or five year deal. But if if
he signs a two or three year deal at twenty
(03:06):
plus million a year average annual value, then the Cardinals
have to match that, right.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Or at least at least or pass it. Because he's younger,
he's more productive. Now, it's it's insane. And here the numbers.
It's a four year extension with seventy six million dollars
of new money, so it kicks in next year, he'll
be under contract till twenty twenty nine. The per year
(03:35):
average of the extension is nineteen million per year. And
so it's just a shade under what Josh Sweat got.
It's got forty three million guaranteed in thirty two and
a half million guaranteed its signing. And we'll get the
details how much like he was due to make five
(03:56):
point three.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Million this year, so we will see what changes.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
And so if if it's just seventy six million dollars
of new money and he keeps the same amount of
money as he was due to make this year, then
it would basically the Cardinals have him under contract for
five years for the total of about eighty one point
three But I'm guessing this year's of salary might drop
(04:25):
close to the league minimum after the after the signing
bonus that they get, So it'll be it'll be interesting
to see how the things are structured.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
But you know, the one thing, the one thing we
have seen with Monty's deals is it's not kind. They
don't they don't backload things like they were. You know,
it's almost it's almost the opposite at this point where
they're like, hey, we'll we'll figure out a way to
get this off the books early. And now, don't get
(04:56):
me wrong, they put some voidiers on the back end
and stuff like that, but we're not seeing the you know,
seventeen million, the fifteen million numbers on the back end
of deals anymore because that's and and maybe that's a
bid Weell thing. Maybe Bidwell's like, hey, I'm tired of
(05:17):
hearing about all this dead money that we're carrying over
year to year because remember, what was it two years ago,
three years ago, the Cardinals were tops in.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
That that that was thanks to getting rid of on
DeAndre Hopkins and yeah, but not just yeah, Jordan Phillips,
JJ Watt because they had those void years and Rodney
Hudson was he here, Oh that was that was all fun.
But that basically it allowed them to clear clear the
(05:49):
space down the line, which they're they're doing okay right
now in terms of of dead money.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But we'll have to wait and see how that goes.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
But like, I think the most impressive thing is that
in terms of timing, because if like you said, if
Kittle gets his if Kittle gets his deal done first,
and he's gonna get paid over twenty million per year
on the new money, you'd have to get trade that
at least, And so they get it in under it
it's a slight increase. He is right now the has
(06:18):
the richest tight end contract ever at nineteen million per year.
The highest per average money given to a tight end
was Travis Kelsey's previously at seventeen point one million dollars
per year, And so it this wasn't exactly a reset.
It was just like the normal inflation rather than you know,
(06:39):
if Kittle does his deal, maybe they reset it at
twenty four many or twenty three million a year and
so you know, definitely trait, we'll get your money. But
in terms of managing things, and we talked about this
when Kyler got his extension, when when his agent came
out and basically drew the line into sad, hey, we
want this deal now. They and they I think his
(07:02):
agent offered him. Was it forty one or forty two
million dollars a year? Yeah, Austin five more million dollars
per year because of waiting till July, because other contracts
came into play, and so you know, but.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
We also know that to your point, they're not resetting
the market, right, They're just they're just taking the natural
progression of things. But the reality is Bidwell is a
how do I put this tactfully? He is a He
(07:39):
is a good soldier right for the NFL. So he
was never going to be the guy that that changes
how and when guys are getting paid, right, like, that's
just not he he wants the NFL or he wants
other guys to do that. But he's going to be
the the guy that goes with the flow and continue
(08:00):
used to do things in the in the way the
NFL has always done them type of thing, you know.
But I do want to shout out Joe Marino. He's
a he's I've known Joe forever. Bill's guy, but does
a lot of NFL draft stuff. You know, we we
used to way way back in the day, work work
togetherish at the when we were at draft breakdown. But
(08:24):
he made the best point I think, and this is
you know, I'd love to get your opinion on this.
You know, he is now the highest paid tight end
in NFL history, right, but one hundred and eleven catches
over eleven hundred yards receiving, I know, only two touchdowns.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
But.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Utilization is wide receiver one esque right, Yes, that he
is the if you put him just ap WI so
average per year in wide receivers twenty third, twenty third,
just like that is that is how Because thing about this,
(09:07):
if if Marv puts up similar numbers in years two
and three, we're going to be talking what thirty million
a year.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
He'll at that thirty plus million a year. That'll that's
how much it'll cost him.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
So so this is to your point, man, this is
just it's one of those things. Kudos to Monte, Kudos
to bid Will. Like you know, we we do you know,
push back a lot. But when he does well like this,
we have to give him his props. And and that's
kind of what this was is. Hey, you know we're
(09:43):
going to we're going to uh reset this market or
or adjust this market. Let's get it done now so
we don't have to and overpay would be a strong word,
but we're not paying two or three million more year,
so you know, another eight to twelve million on a
(10:07):
four year deal.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Right, yeah, And I would like to point out all
the things of all the many faults that this organization
has aside for how the Kyler contract went down, the
Cardinals have never had a problem with giving their good
young talent high paying deals. On their second deal after
(10:33):
the rookie deal, They've never had a problem with that.
They've never had a problem with that. For the guys
that established themselves, they willingly do that. Kyler was the
only one that had the sort of contention to it
and the holdout and things like that. And so it's
good to see. I wonder if this will become more
of a trend than if we'll start seeing. But the
other thing, extensions come earlier then.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Right, And to your point, the other thing is, let's
hope that they have those continues more than one at
a time. That's kind of what it's always been, hasn't it, Jess.
It's always been like, all right, they gotta pay Fits,
you know. And and obviously they had Bolden, but they
they were like, well, we can't pay both. And so
that was kind of the one time where they had
(11:16):
multiple guys that came up at once and they just
I don't want to say bungled it, but they didn't
do a great job with it. And then since then
it's been you know, we gotta pay Patrick, and then
it's like, okay, now we gotta pay Fits again. Now
we gotta pay you know, Chandler, Now we gotta But
there was never like, hey, we gotta pay Fits, Chandler,
Patrick all the same time because they weren't stacking talent.
(11:41):
Let's hope that's the next iteration of this is like, hey,
we paid Trey, now we gotta pay I know people
are gonna have to say, I hate to hear this,
Hey we gotta pay Kyler again. Hey, you know, now
we need to extend Harris PJJ. Now we got to
extend Harrison. You know, that's what we're hopeful for here,
Garrett Williams. You know all these guys that have have
(12:04):
looked good at times or been good at times. Now
it's the next thing is like, okay, let's all get
them good at the same time. So that's the core
that you build around.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Coming next on the RESI of Here podcast Best of
Cardinals talk them, but we're going to dive into what
this show is supposed to be. The focus where we
look at our draft preview. Continuing on today is the
offensive line. We'll talk Day one prospects to know that's.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Coming to next. In recips, he read.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
We're back on the Rise of Here podcast, The Best
are Cardinals talk on the way. But now it is
time to delve into what this show was meant to be.
This is our third draft preview show. Last week we
jumped in with the with the pass rushers, the edge defenders.
Earlier this week we talked about the defensive tackles episode
six fifty one, when we also talked about the addition
of Kalaeis Campbell.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
This one, we're going to focus on the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Now. We're going to bunch up tackles and interior guys
all at once. But let us start with Day one
nowther and I said this on the last show.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
In it it feels like to.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Me that if I had to bet money on a
position that's going to get drafted, I'm leaning towards the
offensive line.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And so this, this group in particular, is interesting. Would
we say.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
There's probably is it what four ish tackles and probably
two guards that will be first rounders?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Don't you think?
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah? And that's the hard part dress is there's a
couple there's a couple question marks, and we'll talk about
all of them, but I mean there's question marks on
one guy because of coming off an injury and now
it's a different injury than it was initially, which is
always odd, right, Like we always think that we know
(13:53):
what the injuries are and then they come off differently.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And then let's dive into the two guys that we
don't anticipate that are that are basically viewed that they're
not going to be around because they're gonna be top
ten ish for a while. Will Campbell Lsu was like
a top five walk Maybe he's still there, but you know,
(14:18):
the the arm length concerns. You've got Will add Lsu
and you've got Arma Membu who with his combine basically
flew up boards and might end up being the guy
that gets drafted first.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Do you think that might actually happen?
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yeah, And Membu's the one to watch for me because
like you said, there's kind of a there's really no
consensus on where he goes. Outside of that, he goes
in the top ten. Right you mentioned Will Campbell. I
think he's still going to be first one off the board.
I think he makes sense to to the the New
England Patriots because of just their kind of what they
(14:56):
expect and what they want. And he's that good. I mean,
he's a special player. Uh, like you said, arms measured
in under thirty three inches and then he got remeasured
as pro day and came in over or just at
thirty three inches and apparently that was a thing.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
This it's been I will say it's been a thing
on some of the big you know, I know Justin
likes to talk about your your your buddy, Justin Higgin
likes to talk about big draft, a big draft. Kuiper
and Field the Ates. Well, Kuyper in particular talks about
if with his arms not reaching that thirty three because
you draft traits and field Yates is like, you know,
I've seen enough of him.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
He's he's gonna be great.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
And so yeah, he goes either like worst case scenario,
so he's either a great tackle or he's a great
guard like.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
That. But that's you look at him. He's play left tackle.
He's he he.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Protected for for Jaydon Daniels, nuss Meyer there their quarterback
there at LSU. Now there's enough tape on there in
the SEC and so he's not gonna even be like,
aren't Membo and Campbell aren't gonna be even under consideration,
So let's not spend a ton of time on those
guys other than Derek expected to be really good. And
(16:10):
that brings us to the next two tackles, and I
think are I think are going to come into play
one is Calvin Banks out of Texas and Josh Simmons
out of Ohio State. Where Simmons balls is going to
be super interesting because as you know, at Ohio State
in twenty twenty three, he looked good but.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Was really bad with penalties.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
And then last season he started this season and was
just incredible. Granted it was not Ohio State's gauntlet of
games in the Big Ten, and so he got injured
injured that knee early on. But what I believe what
the stats were were no penalties, no pressures, nothing, And
if he'd stayed healthy and had continued that wouldn't he
(16:55):
probably be ot one off the board?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, you would think with al the injury, and the
injury is more questionable at this point than anything else
because it was said to be an ACL, and so
everybody's just like, ah, a cl whatever. But then it
came out that it was a patella and so now
it's like, okay, now we got to read now, right,
(17:20):
because patella is a little bit different than an ACL
in terms of.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Luckily o line instead of running back. Probably the most
famous Cardinals incident with a torn pateeller tendon would be
Ryan Williams way way way back in nearly twenty tens.
That that great young running back who flashed and then
never did anything again because he got injured in the
first preseason.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
He never recovered from that knee injury.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
So luckily it's a tackle position, so he doesn't have
to move the same way a running back does.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
But Calvin Banks, what's the good in the bad on him?
Like what he protected?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
He played left tackle at Texas, protecting quinn Ewers for
several seasons and including playing in the SEC last year
on a Texas team that was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Is like he is there really much to worry about
with Kelvin Banks.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I think the biggest question mark with Banks comes in
the form of of like, well, if one, he I
think he's pretty young. I think he's like just turned
twenty one, so he's very young. He actually reminds me
quite a bit of DJ Humphreys coming out young kind
of you know, kind of baby fat ish, still not
(18:37):
in like a negative way, but like has the room
and the size to be, you know, to grow and
get bigger. I mean, arm length was fine, nothing to
write home about, right, like clear of the thirty three.
His wingspan's better, which means he's a broad, broad fellow. Right,
(19:00):
So obviously arm length is you know, from the shoulder
joint down to the longest finger. Wingspan is across the back,
and so you know, when he's twenty six percentile for
arm length but he's eighty or eighty second percentile or wingspan.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Why body any moves well enough, Like there's nothing off
the charts with the athleticism, but he it moves well
enough five to one six forty uh seven eight one
to three cone four six six short shuttle, So so.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Not elite numbers.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
But there's nothing of really, there's no concern. There's no
red flags, right exactly. That's important.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yeah, and so the so the Humphreys thing is the
first thing to me, uh that I look at you know,
he's you know what what were the big deals with
hump coming out? One? Obviously maturity, right, Young young guys
getting drafted early is always always an issue. And you
and I have talked about this, and I know know
(20:00):
people hate this and I understand this, but like in
in the room, Banks wouldn't exactly be expected to start
right away now if he won jobs completely different, right,
but they're not. They're not looking at him going all right,
you got to you gotta be the right guard, you
gotta be the right tackle. They have they have investments
(20:23):
in those positions. So if he's the best player, then
he plays. If not, that's a year to grow, get bigger, stronger,
you know, and be ready for the position, especially if
he has to transition to right tackle, because you know,
theoretically you would not move PJJ from left tackle back
to right tackle, but you would be open to moving
(20:46):
Banks from left tackle, where he only played in college,
to right tackle. Part of the reason, if the medicals
come back clear, I prefer Simmons. Simmons played right tackle
at San Diego State for transitioning over to left tackle,
and as you said, struggling a little bit his first
year at left tackle before becoming probably Harris Johnson level
(21:11):
talented this year before the injury, like the dude was
completely dominant. That's not to take anything away from Banks. Uh,
still extremely talented, still extremely capable. Just one of those
like nitpicking things that we can talk about. That's one
of the things Simmons.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And the thing about Simmons that makes him more intriguing
as well is the connection to Cardinals offensive line coach
Justin Fry, so like they're like this thing sort of
thing comes out all the time. But there was some
scout chatter about him being just garbage, like the character, bad,
work ethic, bad, But Justin Fry, Justin Fry would know
(21:52):
one hundred percent the work ethic and character of Josh Simmons,
having coached him for two seasons at Ohio State. And
so if yeah, I would, I would assuming the end
of the Medicals come back, I would guess that Simmons
would be the pick over Banks and I and I've
(22:15):
been on the record. If I think I said ear
here on the show, I think I've written on the site,
is you know if Jonah Williams is healthy this year,
I think you're just plugging whoever that is. And at
right guard this year, we've seen a lot of tackles,
a lot of great tackles begin their career playing inside
simply because you just want to get the top guys
in there. And that's kind of why I feel if
(22:37):
we're going to we're going to look at, like those
first two picks in the first in the second round,
if there's two positions where you can have a guy
who could have at least a moderate impact this year.
The two possessions that you can look at are on
the offensive line, where you have the potential train right tackle,
right guard in starting as a rookie, and receiver pretty
(23:00):
much everywhere else, they're going to have to find and
carve out a rule. And if that, if this is,
if this is like how the Cardinals have done with
their top picks before they drafted Paris Johnson and they
just put him in a left tackle immediately. They drafted
Marvin Harrison, made him the ex immediately, and so if
(23:22):
it'd be interesting to see what they do there. But
there are also is there for you one one or
two more likely tackles. Josh Connery, Oregon. He's a guy
that's possibly going the first round. Is there anyone else
to know for day one?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
No, I don't think so. I mean we can mention,
and I think he's gonna go on day two. Well,
we can mention. Uh arianta Ursery the mammoth, the mammoth
tackle out of Minnesota. He you know, he came out
of the combine and really impressed because it's very rare
(23:59):
just to see a guy that's six' six AND i
want to make SURE i get this weight, right three
thirty one so sixty six in a, quarter so over six,
six three hundred and thirty one, pounds and then he
moves insanely well for that. SIZE i mean five h
one forty one hundred and eleven inch broad like explosive
(24:20):
for that. Size so it'll be interesting to see because you,
know guys like again just athletic, comparisons not comparing, players
but guys Like Jason, Peters Darnell, Wright Roger, saffold who've
been drafted in the top sixty, Picks Andrew whitworth and
had really good. Careers matched that athletic size and, profile
(24:44):
he'll be an interesting one to, Watch but you, KNOW
i think he's more of A day two guy. Personally
but like you, said with the kind of dearth of
round one just lignement, talent you could see some somebody that,
big that moves that well potentially getting getting a.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Call there are two interior guys worth, noting even THOUGH
i Think seth AND i would maybe agree that they.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Probably wouldn't be targeted by The.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Cardinals but you've Got alabama Guard Tyler, booker who was
for the longest time just penciled it is he's going
to be the first guard taking off the. Board and
then you've Got Gray, zabel the rising kid out Of
North Dakota state who played multiple spots but was a
left tackle this last year because he was the best
lineman projects as a, guard maybe a, center and he's
(25:38):
been mocked the Card in, fact Both booker And zabel
had been mocked by notable mock draft, people notable. Analysts
at one time or another this offseason going to The, Cardinals,
seth you And justin were talking in our group chat
About Tyler booker and the thing that the tape is.
Good the character is ex, Salent the coaches love like
(26:03):
he's A Will anderson type worker, leader you, know character.
Guy but he moved, really really poorly at the, combine
which leads you to, have, basically what is your major
concern With?
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Booker, YEAH i actually wrote about him, today just as you,
know kind of going through the consensus big, board looking
at at the guys that could be available in the
range of The cardinals Pick booker comes out and, realistically you,
know again it's not the talent that you're concerned, about
(26:36):
but guys that move Like, booker it's very rare to
see them. Succeed came in just a shade under six y,
five over three hundred and twenty, pounds so he's not overtly.
Heavy he has really really long arms thirty four and
a half inch, arms massive, hands eleven inch. Hands but
(26:58):
he had a decent, vertical really bad broad jump just
a fourteenth percentile ninety four, inches and then his three
cone literally just barely beat the eight second. Cutoff that
we have to be, undraftable and then his twenty yard
shuttle barely beat the four to nine that you want
(27:19):
to see these guys in front. Of there's a lot
of names in this, list man that that tested, similarly
and there's only, one AND i guess we can throw
in a, second but there's only one that has Been
WHAT i would say is a you, know a success
(27:42):
in THE. Nfl and he was drafted, early and That's Mikey,
potty you, potty you, know came out Of idaho a
little bit bigger at three point thirty, one but same
same type of arm, length you, know same type of
testing numbers to, say and he was actually a little
worse in the short, shuttle coming at four nine to
(28:04):
three versus a four eight four For. Booker so, that's you,
know the one. Thing but like the other names are not.
Great and the only other one that's been successful Was Aaron.
Banks AND i Think banks went in the third. ROUND
(28:25):
i don't remember if it was the second or the third.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
ROUND i think it was. THIRD i think it was.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Third but you, know so that's the. Thing SO i,
personally and this is just, ME i don't matter for.
ANYTHING i went and actually he went in the late.
Second SO i would not take Uh Tyler booker in
the first. ROUND i just.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Wouldn't if he was.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
There about what about? SEVEN i Think zabel because of the,
versatility because of the. ATHLETICISM i, mean we're talking about
a guy that's literally started at five per positions along
the offensive, line which is you, know absurd size, wise
he's a little lean at three. Twelve, uh you, know
(29:09):
more of a tackle measurable than a than a guard
at that. Weight but just, insane insane athleticism testing. NUMBERS i,
mean we've seen guys like that come out and and
they're hard to. Find. Uh his broad jump in it
(29:30):
and his vertical jump are literally over ninetieth percentile In,
actually his vertical jump if you put it in the
guard metrics is ninety ninth percentile all. Time like that's
how good his vertical, was you, know and you look
at you look at names that have come, Out, man
there's a lot of a lot of good. Ones obviously
(29:51):
the highest end that you, know we don't talk, about
but but built very, similarly tested very, similarly is like
A Steve. Hutchinson now, again you ain't Getting Steve watchinson
like if he turns Into Steve, hutchinson you just tip your.
Cap but like you're not projecting him to.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Be, oh that's that's. Unfair it's.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Unfair and again we would like to note even though
we don't know, exactly so middle of the first round
to the end of the first, round, yeah maybe even
the top of the second.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Round that's just how the draft kind of.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Goes, uh it would be a break from it would
be straying from the trends that The cardinals have had
the last two seasons with the draft of two years
they where they haven't taken AN fcs guy at.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
All like the smallest school The.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Cardinals have gone in the two years was was You
aby and that was last year With Tejon. Palmer he
was a sixth round pick day sixth round. Pick so
that'll be interesting to see with. That and so that
that kind of wraps up Our day one. Guys you,
know so coming up next with The rise Of secred
Podcast The best Are cardinals talking of let's look at.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Guys to consider on day. Two that's got our Next
on rece, up he Read.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
We're back on The rise Of seared Podcast The Best
Our cardinals tac of the web now looking at rounds
two and three and this so this is where we
will start to talk about a few more interior.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Uh but but into the tackles Uh ursery you already
talked about as a maybe late round one uh sneaking in.
There uh guys to know tackles to know in day?
Two would that include guys Like Marcus Embouh Does Emery
(31:34):
jones make it into day?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
TWO lsu guy.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
You know you mentioned Obviously connorley and And Nursery jones
is a guy that he's GONNA i think he's gonna
go on day, two but probably third, round you, know
which again is still that's still. GREAT i, mean there's
nothing wrong with. That another, One Anthony belton out Of
North Carolina state's a guy that that could go in
(31:59):
the in the third. Round you know he's he came
out and or do my notes, go oh he came
out you know at six, six three hundred and thirty six. Pounds,
again a lot of these guys you wonder if they're
if they're positional, versatile or if they're right tackles only
(32:21):
with their, size because it's just it's just odd how many,
massive massive guys we've seen come out this. Year the
other question is, like based on this guy's size or
these some of these guys, size are they guys that
that you have to move inside a guard like we've
(32:42):
seen With Makai becton, Right and so those are all
questions that that teams will have to. Answer this What
i'll say About belton six six three thirty six tested
in the sixty seventh and seventy percentile in his, jumps
but his his speed agility metrics were just at the average.
(33:03):
Fifty so he's a very average. Mover but he's. Explosive
so so that's WHY i wonder if he can play
that that guard, position you, know if you move him
inside the, guard because he is so, explosive, uh in
more of a you, know power based. Scheme but we'll
(33:23):
see how that works, out you, know because if you
put his metrics as a, guard he actually is is
an above average mover uh and and things like. That
but we've seen, guys you, Know Donovan, smith who is
the guy out of shoot where DID i lose? It
To Landon? Dickerson excuse? Me and even like A Dominic
(33:46):
pooney last year that have all been, drafted and you
know that had similar movement. Skills uh To, belton you Mentioned.
JONES i Like Emory. JONES i, thought you, know it's
it's always tough to be the other.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Guy Memory jones's polarizing is kind of how the vibe
That i've gotten from What i've, read What i've heard
on podcasts and things like that is that you either
believe In Emory jones or you're like not so.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Much, well you got to remember, too, man it's always
really difficult to be the other, guy, Right like you're
talking about the consensus number, one number one player coming
into this year along the offensive. Line, now like we,
Said Josh simmons probably surpassed him during the process if
(34:40):
he doesn't get. Hurt, however coming into the, season it was,
literally it was Literally Will campbell with a bullet like
there was not really any question about who the number
one guy. Was you, Know jones came. IN i think
we're all a little surprised about how lean he. Was
he came in at only three p, fifteen but good arm,
(35:01):
length big. Hands, again another guy with massive hands in this.
Draft so the question, becomes you, know is he versatile
or is he a right tackle only he.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
PROFILES i was just, saying which you, know The cardinals could, Use,
like there are lots of teams who who could definitely
use a right tackle only that's not that's not a. Downside,
uh it just makes them less versatile off the bench
if they're if they end up being a swing tackle
for a.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Year.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Right and the thing is With jones is this is
obviously super high. End SO i don't want people to
take this the wrong. Way but like if he, play
if he comes out you know and plays, well, uh
or or not even plays. Well if he you, know
he's a guy that's built similarly to former first round
Pick Ryan, ramchek who had a great career for The. Saints,
(35:59):
right you, Know ramcheck came out Of, wisconsin so another
blue blood, program a program that really you, know and
and Again ramcheck wasn't overly heavy at three ten coming,
Out so So jones checked similar. Profiles, uh you, know
(36:20):
doesn't mean he'll ever live up to that, level because
again that's high high. Level one more gut or actually
a couple more guys we should mention you Mission Josh
connorly he might be you, know it'll be him or
nursery as the next tackle depending On, again we have
to always give the caveat About simmons. Knee you, know
(36:41):
if if people don't like what they get back in
the knee or or the, medicals it's it's a different.
Conversation But, connorly you, know six five three eleven was
was That oregon took almost all of us snapped at left.
Tackle he played some at left guard and right guard this,
(37:03):
year but like very very very. Few and he moves.
Well and so the question, becomes is he a guy
that you see having the versatility to play left tackle
or is he a guy that he? IS i, mean
(37:24):
he's genuinely probably the smallest of these. Guys he came
in at six under six five and three hundred eleven,
pounds so it's his three thirty three and a half
inch arms don't. Matter but he was also one of
the most athletic, guys which you, know if you're going
to be, small you have to be uber love. It, yeah,
(37:46):
Yeah and so that's. Him you, know he's a guy
THAT i think might have to kick in the. Guard
and that's not a shot at. HIM i JUST i
just worry about the the ability to hold up on
the edge. Consistently but he's profiled similarly to guys that
(38:06):
have been drafted in the first round like brought Her
jones And Tyler. Geydon so it's not it's not out
of the. Question and you, know he's he's a guy
that's been you, know very good while he was At
oregon and and had a good. Career you, know he's
(38:29):
not a guy that had to bounce around to find
out how good he.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Was.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Uh the Other texas Tackle Cameron, Williams, uh he's he's
an interesting one because, again when you're the other, guy right,
like you tend to get overlooked a little. Bit, uh six,'
six came in at. THREE seventeen i think we were
a little surprised about the Leanness. Of. Williams uh, you
(38:56):
know he looks a little bit bigger uh than he
will but he's got vines. FOR arms, i mean he's.
Long armed and, THEN again I know i've mentioned this,
a bunch but like hand size in, this class dude's
got eleven and three eighths and hands, like massive. Massive hands,
(39:16):
you know the Question on williams is going to be,
movement skills and then you're taking a you're taking. A
risk this dude was a one. Year starter he had,
a excellent, excellent season but he has problems because and
(39:37):
this is again what where you have TO really i
don't want to say, get lucky but you have to
really trust. Your scouts you're talking about a guy that had,
one year had some penalty issues because the strength wasn't
what we expected and the movement skills didn't. Necessarily match
but he's got extremely long arms and and he probably
(40:01):
can be a guy that that you can move inside
or leave it right tackle with the size. And length,
but again one. FULL year, i mean this dude played
one hundred and twenty five snaps in twenty three just
so like he literally just was one.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Said mel, kuiper said wondered why he even. Came out
he would have been the, perfect end especially especially with.
Nil MONEY now.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
I think this, is so this IS what i always
think about guys, like him when they have a good
enough year to go on. Day two you you just
do it because with the with the changes that are
Happening at texas, in general you're, PROBABLY like i don't
want to take, a, Risk RIGHT like i don't Want
to that. MAKES sense i don't want to be there
(40:46):
and then a couple more guys real.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
QUICK good i would say we have to talk about the,
guards though because there, are three well definitely two that
are like lights out guards that you're that you're gonna
see go on. DAY two i would love to See
the Cardinals get wyther one. Of them one Would Be
donovan jackson Out Of, ohio state who ended up being
their left tackle down their stretch run for their title
(41:10):
great guard and proved he can. Play tackle then You've
Got Tate, rutledge georgia that beautiful no but in the
combine running that four nine seven at six sixth three with.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
That mullet flowing in.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
The, Wind yes but those THOSE two i think are
are are fantastic Guard prode so if they go a
different direction on, round one so they go with, PASS
rusher I, Think ratledge i'm Sorry, not Rutledge But, Tate
Ratledge donovan jackson at number forty seven would be absolutely
home run. Picks PERSONALLY and i Know that Marcus embo
is didn't he play tackle For, to purdue but is
(41:53):
there's a lot of question marks of where he's going.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
To play is that what that is?
Speaker 3 (41:56):
For?
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Him, yeah yeah definitely and you know he's a guy
that has those, question marks and so you have to
you have to decide where you. Value him another guy
that's getting looks at at tackle but could kick in,
the guard that could that's gonna go on, day. Two.
Jess UH and i know we try not to talk
(42:17):
about these guys, too much But, THE jonah i can't
even pronounce his last name down at u of, a right.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
You.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Know uh He, so mbo, you know real quick. Came in, he's,
like yeah Uh, but mbo, real quick tiny man like
tiny tiny six four three hundred pounds see three. H
THREE but i mean that's definitely. Water weight when you
come in, that small right you you drink. AS much
i mean he might be sub two hundred pounds or
(42:47):
three hundred pounds uh in. Real life and so you
know the question is what can? He do can he? Play?
Inside uh can't, you know even if they had to
kick him into center with. The size another one that
(43:07):
you know you're really projecting because like, you said this
is he played a ton at, right guard but back
in twenty twenty two and then it's only played right,
tackle since including some, you know an injury plagued twenty twenty.
Three season so like he's a he's a, tough one
uh the And then jonah out out of U of
(43:31):
a he's big six four two three twenty four, you know,
he played but. Same thing this is a dude that
played seven hundred and ninety snaps in twenty two at,
right guard one hundred and ninety five at right guard
in twenty three with six hundred and ninety three at,
right tackle and then he basically played a fifty to
fifty split at left and right tackle. Last, year Obviously
(43:52):
After jordan morgan went TO, the nfl the problem becomes
there's a strength Question with jonah AND obviously mbo. As
well like those are guys that have to prove that
they can they can hold up at the point of.
Attack consistently but The way Savyah seven, nea, moves man
(44:18):
you know he is he is, an elite elite athlete
at the, guard position moves similar to Like A quinn
minor as when he was coming Out OF wisconsin D Three.
Wisconsin whitewater so like that is you know again that
is what you're looking for on, that question, you know for.
(44:39):
Those QUESTIONS but i want to go Back to ratledge
And And. Donovan, jackson here here's my question, For, you
JESS and i genuinely don't. Have Answer donovan jackson's only
played on the left side in. His Career rat ledge
has basically he took four snaps in his career at,
(44:59):
left card so he's basically only played right guard. His
career is are is it? Important enough does it matter
enough in those instances, to you like where you have
potentially a bigger need at the right guard, right now
like with that way or do you, just trust, you
(45:22):
Know justin frye enough to, be, like hey You Know
donovan jackson like the back of, your hand you, go
ahead you know you you make. That call That's the
AND like, I said i don't have. An answer But
But ravage ratlage is, an elite Elite Mover Joe, Joe
(45:42):
Toney ali marpett Level Mover, kyle long who's an all pro.
AS well, i mean that's that's what you're talking about
in terms of. Movement skills i've seen some comps To
Like dalton Risner Or. Quinn minarez so like you're talking
about a guy that's gonna come in get the. Job
done as Far As donovan. JACKSON goes i think he's
a plug and play like, You know tenure type. Of
(46:05):
guy like he's. That good the the question you have
with with both guys is is you know what do you?
Need more and who who do you? Trust more, BUT
yeah i mean this is a great draft to have
these needs just because they're all there's a lot, of, options, right.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Yes YES and i think Without The justin, Fry Factor
TAIT ratledge i think is the one. You like it's
the easier one to Bet On donovan jackson because you've
got the guy on. The inside YOU if i WOULDN'T
blame i wouldn't Blame the cardinals For taking Jackson, over
Ratledge but.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
I'd Probably.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
TAKE ratledge, i mean especially especially since you have a
right guard job that you really.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Don't it Is It?
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Isaiah adams is it one of these new guys that we're?
Talking like but it it'd be perfect to. Add there
NOT that i Don't think dan That the jackson could,
do it but that athleticism is is something.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Else anybody else? Of note on? Day two or should
we jump into our day? Three, guys yeah?
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Real quick the tackles, uh uh there's a kid Out Of.
Boston College, ozzie trapeo massive. MASSIVE kid i think he
came in at six' eight, just eight yeah. So massive.
Guy uh there so he's a good one to know
(47:40):
on on day, on day, two third round we're talking
here like he's not, gonna go early you know he
but really. Really big guy the question with him is
just going, to be strength right like that'll you know
guys that long you want to see. How they Are
(48:01):
and Then wyatt millam he's ANOTHER one that i don't
know where he Profiles Out. OF west virginia i just
know he's a. Good football player, But you know. I've
seen him i've seen him mocked. As a guard i've
seen him mocked. As a tackle came in, at sixty six.
Three hundred pounds but thomp's really well to A guy
the cardinals put a big Run on will freeze right
(48:24):
like so so like those. Are interesting ones, But You
know wyatt milliams only played left tackle, in his, career
you know so again it might be a one year
transition where he's not a guy that can play right away.
As he's adjusting if you do want to kick him.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
In the guard thanks for The rise. Of secret Podcasts
best are cardinals, tack a little let's go? To day
three who are the names to know late in the
draft that's? Come of, exppressive he read.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
We're back on the rise. Of secret Podcasts best are
cardinals talk? On the web day three? Players to know
not that we're going to be able to peg some.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Of these picks but at least just the name that
stands out to Me from WHAT i'm what i have
heard from other shows And Things, Like Charles Grant Women.
Mary small school is he a guy that's gonna go?
On day three is he like he's going to get
that look with those very long arms six four three
eleven nearly thirty.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Five, In charms.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Yeah grant's one that you know people are going to
want to, see, up close right and because, like you
said when you're coming from, the small school you have
you have to, do everything perfectly and we rarely see
those guys end up on day one or. Even day.
Two it's rare but, the the metrics the the athletic,
(49:47):
profile coming, out you, know six five three. Hundred eleven
pounds here's the crazy, Thing. Of this jess he's only
played football. For six years he didn't start until he
was a junior. In. High. School uh crazy now here's.
The other issue he doesn't he didn't play A lot At.
(50:12):
William and mary so you have these questions that you're, betting,
On traits right you're, you're, basically, SAYING like hey i
believe that this guy is so elite gifted from a
physical standpoint that we can coach. Him up enough and
(50:34):
we saw enough in the in the One year At
william and mary that we're not. Concerned. About it right
so that's the that's the. Bugaboo with him Another guy
that i've seen starting to. Gain some steam and, he's,
really interesting man because you, rarely see, guys you know,
like you said coming from these smaller schools. Getting This
(50:58):
Buzz but jackson Slater Out of sacramento state six, three
eleven pounds he had really good times you kind of.
Look at it he's he played left guard his Entire Time.
At sacramento state was A First Team. Fcs all AMERICAN
(51:18):
Obviously Not ap all american or, anything like that but
really really good guard prospect. On the interior so so
that's another name to know on day three because he
impressed in a. LOT of ways, i mean, again six
three three eleven thirty one inch or thirty. One bench,
(51:41):
reps excuse me easier to say than it is, to,
think about uh really really solid athletic testing and Was Dominant.
At sacramento state so Again something with grant and With
and with slater right that we kind of. Think is
important those guys got to be domin at at. The,
smaller level, yeah you know and and those those, two
(52:06):
in particular were.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
You, know from.
Speaker 4 (52:10):
There it's you you got to just be What's the word?
I'm looking for like you got to find you got to,
find the gems like you got to find the guys
that fit in what, you're looking for what you're, wanting
to do and and things.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Of that nature and it's important to note that the
remember how excited Everyone Was for Larcita Smith. And Marquis
hayes lcita smith has, been bouncing around. Hasn't Stuck anywhere
marcus hayes is out. Of THE league he i think
he WAS in the. Ufl last year and And people,
(52:48):
loved hayes right remember that that rookie.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Year in Camp. THEY loved hayes i know there's we haven't.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
MENTIONED any centers i want to say it just for
the sake, of saying it because when You Bring in
ohio state, offensive line coach it feels like you're destined
to get an Offensive Lineman. From ohio state so We Talked,
About josh simmons We Talked. About donovan jackson seth McLaughlin
was the. Nation's best center He Was the, rimington trophy
(53:16):
winner played only Ten Games. In tours achilles that means
He will, go day three someone. Will draft him and
but he's not the only. Like good center you look
at the Athletic Traits of jared Wilson.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
From from georgia.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
It.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Isn't As well and i'm trying TO remember who i,
Heard on another?
Speaker 3 (53:36):
But is IT is It usc Center. Joon of monheim
that's that's really probably going to. Be, Pretty decent.
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Yeah monheim is. An interesting one the Kid Out. OF
jacksonville state i believe it is that By way of
georgia that was one of. The top guys And then,
The Georgia guy jared wilson was is supposed to. Be pretty.
Good you know there this is a this is a
class of centers that are going to regress the progress
(54:11):
that have been made for guys going in round. One,
and two, uh you know and not in. A negative,
way i mean these are guys that are going To
go in, uh you know these are on probably at
best in, the third round But likely.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
On.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
Day three uh there's.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
Ten produces like the top prospects at, center every year
like just because they is Always From.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
The big ten it's just because of what they're. Asked
to do from, a call standpoint they. Understand the game
there's one name we do, Have. TO mention jess i
don't know if you this was. In Your, Notes drew.
Kendall pete's son. So that's, right so yeah So FIRST
(54:53):
team all. Acc this year he started thirty seven games
at Center for The Boston, for boston college so he's
definitely gonna get a look. Around THE league but i
mean six or four but only three hundred and eight
pounds real. Short arms, test it fine very, very adequate athleticism,
(55:17):
but you know not a not a power guy.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
In the least And anybody else before we, wrap THIS
up because i know you've got to get.
Speaker 4 (55:25):
Out, of, HERE no no i think this is a
great year to. Need, Offensive, lineman man like it's a
great year to have these guys or have the Need
that the cardinals have because it's not an immediate need
kind of like what we talked about with, the defensive
line but it is a need that they can fulfill
and fill out and, get you know get, taken care of, which.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Is huge awesome, so with that we will wrap up
this Edition of The Rise, Of Secret Podcast Best eric
cardinals talk.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
On the whib this is.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
Our third draft shoh what we'll do over the next
next week we'll dive into, the wide receivers but until Then.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
That's Seth Cox. I'm jess rude. Thanks for, listening as
always we'll be. Back again soon.
Speaker 5 (56:11):
Thanks for listening to the latest Edition Of The Rise up.
Sea red podcast listen to previous episodes and subscribe to
The Show, On apple Podcasts, Stitch Your, radio audio boom
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Speaker 2 (56:30):
Support the show we'll be back soon for the Best
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Speaker 5 (56:34):
On The Web rise up Red Cea B red sea
red And Of Course rise up Sea reds out there
(57:02):
is at There is at
Speaker 3 (57:06):
There is a
Yes, this is the Rise Up Sea Red podcast, all
about the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL, featuring insider and
outsider perspectives. Enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on
(00:23):
the web.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Now Here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox
ellos on a Cardinals Fanson.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Welcome to the latest edition of the Rise Up Sea
Red podcast, the best hour Cardinals Talk on the web.
You're I'm your host Jess Root from carswire dot com,
the USA Today NFL wire site that covers Arizona Cardinals.
In our second show of the week, I have my
co host Seth Cox from Revenge of the Verses dot
com eSPI Nations Arizona Cardinals site. It is episode six
(00:55):
hundred and fifty two and it's supposed to be draft preview,
but we've got some extra news to do. We've got
the news. Trey McBride got his extension. Here we are
April third. He's a he's coming off his third season.
The Cardinals have literally never given an extension this early.
(01:17):
I detailed this about two and a half weeks ago
that the history for players getting their extensions when they're
already under contract is July and August Seth. How surprised
were you when the news came down. I mean I
was teaching one of my classes and I got tagged
(01:37):
in slack from our graphics guy to let me know, like, hey,
here's a graphic. I'm like for what, I'm like, Oh, McBride,
I guess I got to get this written.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
McBride gets his deal done April third, not July, not August.
But I guess now we have to talk about other
stuff in the offseason rather than speculate when the deal
is going to get done.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, and it makes sense you and we're talking about
it a little bit off the air, right, like there's
a couple guys coming up that are going to affect
what he gets or what he could have received, and
the biggest one being George Kittle. Right, George Kittle the
(02:23):
highest paid tight end in NFL history when he signed
his original deal in twenty twenty. It's up this year.
I mean, you know, so they're trying to redo the
deal because basically he's taken up twenty two million in
cap space for the forty nine ers. So you're thinking
(02:46):
to yourself, all right, let's get this done. And so
it makes sense if you think about it in this way,
get the deal done before Kittle signs for three because
he's thirty two, right, so he's he's not going to
sign a four or five year deal. But if if
he signs a two or three year deal at twenty
(03:06):
plus million a year average annual value, then the Cardinals
have to match that, right.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Or at least at least or pass it. Because he's younger,
he's more productive. Now, it's it's insane. And here the numbers.
It's a four year extension with seventy six million dollars
of new money, so it kicks in next year, he'll
be under contract till twenty twenty nine. The per year
(03:35):
average of the extension is nineteen million per year. And
so it's just a shade under what Josh Sweat got.
It's got forty three million guaranteed in thirty two and
a half million guaranteed its signing. And we'll get the
details how much like he was due to make five
(03:56):
point three.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Million this year, so we will see what changes.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
And so if if it's just seventy six million dollars
of new money and he keeps the same amount of
money as he was due to make this year, then
it would basically the Cardinals have him under contract for
five years for the total of about eighty one point
three But I'm guessing this year's of salary might drop
(04:25):
close to the league minimum after the after the signing
bonus that they get, So it'll be it'll be interesting
to see how the things are structured.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
But you know, the one thing, the one thing we
have seen with Monty's deals is it's not kind. They
don't they don't backload things like they were. You know,
it's almost it's almost the opposite at this point where
they're like, hey, we'll we'll figure out a way to
get this off the books early. And now, don't get
(04:56):
me wrong, they put some voidiers on the back end
and stuff like that, but we're not seeing the you know,
seventeen million, the fifteen million numbers on the back end
of deals anymore because that's and and maybe that's a
bid Weell thing. Maybe Bidwell's like, hey, I'm tired of
(05:17):
hearing about all this dead money that we're carrying over
year to year because remember, what was it two years ago,
three years ago, the Cardinals were tops in.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
That that that was thanks to getting rid of on
DeAndre Hopkins and yeah, but not just yeah, Jordan Phillips,
JJ Watt because they had those void years and Rodney
Hudson was he here, Oh that was that was all fun.
But that basically it allowed them to clear clear the
(05:49):
space down the line, which they're they're doing okay right
now in terms of of dead money.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But we'll have to wait and see how that goes.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
But like, I think the most impressive thing is that
in terms of timing, because if like you said, if
Kittle gets his if Kittle gets his deal done first,
and he's gonna get paid over twenty million per year
on the new money, you'd have to get trade that
at least, And so they get it in under it
it's a slight increase. He is right now the has
(06:18):
the richest tight end contract ever at nineteen million per year.
The highest per average money given to a tight end
was Travis Kelsey's previously at seventeen point one million dollars
per year, And so it this wasn't exactly a reset.
It was just like the normal inflation rather than you know,
(06:39):
if Kittle does his deal, maybe they reset it at
twenty four many or twenty three million a year and
so you know, definitely trait, we'll get your money. But
in terms of managing things, and we talked about this
when Kyler got his extension, when when his agent came
out and basically drew the line into sad, hey, we
want this deal now. They and they I think his
(07:02):
agent offered him. Was it forty one or forty two
million dollars a year? Yeah, Austin five more million dollars
per year because of waiting till July, because other contracts
came into play, and so you know, but.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
We also know that to your point, they're not resetting
the market, right, They're just they're just taking the natural
progression of things. But the reality is Bidwell is a
how do I put this tactfully? He is a He
(07:39):
is a good soldier right for the NFL. So he
was never going to be the guy that that changes
how and when guys are getting paid, right, like, that's
just not he he wants the NFL or he wants
other guys to do that. But he's going to be
the the guy that goes with the flow and continue
(08:00):
used to do things in the in the way the
NFL has always done them type of thing, you know.
But I do want to shout out Joe Marino. He's
a he's I've known Joe forever. Bill's guy, but does
a lot of NFL draft stuff. You know, we we
used to way way back in the day, work work
togetherish at the when we were at draft breakdown. But
(08:24):
he made the best point I think, and this is
you know, I'd love to get your opinion on this.
You know, he is now the highest paid tight end
in NFL history, right, but one hundred and eleven catches
over eleven hundred yards receiving, I know, only two touchdowns.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
But.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Utilization is wide receiver one esque right, Yes, that he
is the if you put him just ap WI so
average per year in wide receivers twenty third, twenty third,
just like that is that is how Because thing about this,
(09:07):
if if Marv puts up similar numbers in years two
and three, we're going to be talking what thirty million
a year.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
He'll at that thirty plus million a year. That'll that's
how much it'll cost him.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
So so this is to your point, man, this is
just it's one of those things. Kudos to Monte, Kudos
to bid Will. Like you know, we we do you know,
push back a lot. But when he does well like this,
we have to give him his props. And and that's
kind of what this was is. Hey, you know we're
(09:43):
going to we're going to uh reset this market or
or adjust this market. Let's get it done now so
we don't have to and overpay would be a strong word,
but we're not paying two or three million more year,
so you know, another eight to twelve million on a
(10:07):
four year deal.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Right, yeah, And I would like to point out all
the things of all the many faults that this organization
has aside for how the Kyler contract went down, the
Cardinals have never had a problem with giving their good
young talent high paying deals. On their second deal after
(10:33):
the rookie deal, They've never had a problem with that.
They've never had a problem with that. For the guys
that established themselves, they willingly do that. Kyler was the
only one that had the sort of contention to it
and the holdout and things like that. And so it's
good to see. I wonder if this will become more
of a trend than if we'll start seeing. But the
other thing, extensions come earlier then.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Right, And to your point, the other thing is, let's
hope that they have those continues more than one at
a time. That's kind of what it's always been, hasn't it, Jess.
It's always been like, all right, they gotta pay Fits,
you know. And and obviously they had Bolden, but they
they were like, well, we can't pay both. And so
that was kind of the one time where they had
(11:16):
multiple guys that came up at once and they just
I don't want to say bungled it, but they didn't
do a great job with it. And then since then
it's been you know, we gotta pay Patrick, and then
it's like, okay, now we gotta pay Fits again. Now
we gotta pay you know, Chandler, Now we gotta But
there was never like, hey, we gotta pay Fits, Chandler,
Patrick all the same time because they weren't stacking talent.
(11:41):
Let's hope that's the next iteration of this is like, hey,
we paid Trey, now we gotta pay I know people
are gonna have to say, I hate to hear this,
Hey we gotta pay Kyler again. Hey, you know, now
we need to extend Harris PJJ. Now we got to
extend Harrison. You know, that's what we're hopeful for here,
Garrett Williams. You know all these guys that have have
(12:04):
looked good at times or been good at times. Now
it's the next thing is like, okay, let's all get
them good at the same time. So that's the core
that you build around.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Coming next on the RESI of Here podcast Best of
Cardinals talk them, but we're going to dive into what
this show is supposed to be. The focus where we
look at our draft preview. Continuing on today is the
offensive line. We'll talk Day one prospects to know that's.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Coming to next. In recips, he read.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
We're back on the Rise of Here podcast, The Best
are Cardinals talk on the way. But now it is
time to delve into what this show was meant to be.
This is our third draft preview show. Last week we
jumped in with the with the pass rushers, the edge defenders.
Earlier this week we talked about the defensive tackles episode
six fifty one, when we also talked about the addition
of Kalaeis Campbell.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
This one, we're going to focus on the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Now. We're going to bunch up tackles and interior guys
all at once. But let us start with Day one
nowther and I said this on the last show.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
In it it feels like to.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Me that if I had to bet money on a
position that's going to get drafted, I'm leaning towards the
offensive line.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And so this, this group in particular, is interesting. Would
we say.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
There's probably is it what four ish tackles and probably
two guards that will be first rounders?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Don't you think?
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah? And that's the hard part dress is there's a
couple there's a couple question marks, and we'll talk about
all of them, but I mean there's question marks on
one guy because of coming off an injury and now
it's a different injury than it was initially, which is
always odd, right, Like we always think that we know
(13:53):
what the injuries are and then they come off differently.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And then let's dive into the two guys that we
don't anticipate that are that are basically viewed that they're
not going to be around because they're gonna be top
ten ish for a while. Will Campbell Lsu was like
a top five walk Maybe he's still there, but you know,
(14:18):
the the arm length concerns. You've got Will add Lsu
and you've got Arma Membu who with his combine basically
flew up boards and might end up being the guy
that gets drafted first.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Do you think that might actually happen?
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yeah, And Membu's the one to watch for me because
like you said, there's kind of a there's really no
consensus on where he goes. Outside of that, he goes
in the top ten. Right you mentioned Will Campbell. I
think he's still going to be first one off the board.
I think he makes sense to to the the New
England Patriots because of just their kind of what they
(14:56):
expect and what they want. And he's that good. I mean,
he's a special player. Uh, like you said, arms measured
in under thirty three inches and then he got remeasured
as pro day and came in over or just at
thirty three inches and apparently that was a thing.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
This it's been I will say it's been a thing
on some of the big you know, I know Justin
likes to talk about your your your buddy, Justin Higgin
likes to talk about big draft, a big draft. Kuiper
and Field the Ates. Well, Kuyper in particular talks about
if with his arms not reaching that thirty three because
you draft traits and field Yates is like, you know,
I've seen enough of him.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
He's he's gonna be great.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
And so yeah, he goes either like worst case scenario,
so he's either a great tackle or he's a great
guard like.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
That. But that's you look at him. He's play left tackle.
He's he he.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Protected for for Jaydon Daniels, nuss Meyer there their quarterback
there at LSU. Now there's enough tape on there in
the SEC and so he's not gonna even be like,
aren't Membo and Campbell aren't gonna be even under consideration,
So let's not spend a ton of time on those
guys other than Derek expected to be really good. And
(16:10):
that brings us to the next two tackles, and I
think are I think are going to come into play
one is Calvin Banks out of Texas and Josh Simmons
out of Ohio State. Where Simmons balls is going to
be super interesting because as you know, at Ohio State
in twenty twenty three, he looked good but.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Was really bad with penalties.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
And then last season he started this season and was
just incredible. Granted it was not Ohio State's gauntlet of
games in the Big Ten, and so he got injured
injured that knee early on. But what I believe what
the stats were were no penalties, no pressures, nothing, And
if he'd stayed healthy and had continued that wouldn't he
(16:55):
probably be ot one off the board?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, you would think with al the injury, and the
injury is more questionable at this point than anything else
because it was said to be an ACL, and so
everybody's just like, ah, a cl whatever. But then it
came out that it was a patella and so now
it's like, okay, now we got to read now, right,
(17:20):
because patella is a little bit different than an ACL
in terms of.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Luckily o line instead of running back. Probably the most
famous Cardinals incident with a torn pateeller tendon would be
Ryan Williams way way way back in nearly twenty tens.
That that great young running back who flashed and then
never did anything again because he got injured in the
first preseason.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
He never recovered from that knee injury.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
So luckily it's a tackle position, so he doesn't have
to move the same way a running back does.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
But Calvin Banks, what's the good in the bad on him?
Like what he protected?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
He played left tackle at Texas, protecting quinn Ewers for
several seasons and including playing in the SEC last year
on a Texas team that was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Is like he is there really much to worry about
with Kelvin Banks.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I think the biggest question mark with Banks comes in
the form of of like, well, if one, he I
think he's pretty young. I think he's like just turned
twenty one, so he's very young. He actually reminds me
quite a bit of DJ Humphreys coming out young kind
of you know, kind of baby fat ish, still not
(18:37):
in like a negative way, but like has the room
and the size to be, you know, to grow and
get bigger. I mean, arm length was fine, nothing to
write home about, right, like clear of the thirty three.
His wingspan's better, which means he's a broad, broad fellow. Right,
(19:00):
So obviously arm length is you know, from the shoulder
joint down to the longest finger. Wingspan is across the back,
and so you know, when he's twenty six percentile for
arm length but he's eighty or eighty second percentile or wingspan.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Why body any moves well enough, Like there's nothing off
the charts with the athleticism, but he it moves well
enough five to one six forty uh seven eight one
to three cone four six six short shuttle, So so.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Not elite numbers.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
But there's nothing of really, there's no concern. There's no
red flags, right exactly. That's important.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yeah, and so the so the Humphreys thing is the
first thing to me, uh that I look at you know,
he's you know what what were the big deals with
hump coming out? One? Obviously maturity, right, Young young guys
getting drafted early is always always an issue. And you
and I have talked about this, and I know know
(20:00):
people hate this and I understand this, but like in
in the room, Banks wouldn't exactly be expected to start
right away now if he won jobs completely different, right,
but they're not. They're not looking at him going all right,
you got to you gotta be the right guard, you
gotta be the right tackle. They have they have investments
(20:23):
in those positions. So if he's the best player, then
he plays. If not, that's a year to grow, get bigger, stronger,
you know, and be ready for the position, especially if
he has to transition to right tackle, because you know,
theoretically you would not move PJJ from left tackle back
to right tackle, but you would be open to moving
(20:46):
Banks from left tackle, where he only played in college,
to right tackle. Part of the reason, if the medicals
come back clear, I prefer Simmons. Simmons played right tackle
at San Diego State for transitioning over to left tackle,
and as you said, struggling a little bit his first
year at left tackle before becoming probably Harris Johnson level
(21:11):
talented this year before the injury, like the dude was
completely dominant. That's not to take anything away from Banks. Uh,
still extremely talented, still extremely capable. Just one of those
like nitpicking things that we can talk about. That's one
of the things Simmons.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And the thing about Simmons that makes him more intriguing
as well is the connection to Cardinals offensive line coach
Justin Fry, so like they're like this thing sort of
thing comes out all the time. But there was some
scout chatter about him being just garbage, like the character, bad,
work ethic, bad, But Justin Fry, Justin Fry would know
(21:52):
one hundred percent the work ethic and character of Josh Simmons,
having coached him for two seasons at Ohio State. And
so if yeah, I would, I would assuming the end
of the Medicals come back, I would guess that Simmons
would be the pick over Banks and I and I've
(22:15):
been on the record. If I think I said ear
here on the show, I think I've written on the site,
is you know if Jonah Williams is healthy this year,
I think you're just plugging whoever that is. And at
right guard this year, we've seen a lot of tackles,
a lot of great tackles begin their career playing inside
simply because you just want to get the top guys
in there. And that's kind of why I feel if
(22:37):
we're going to we're going to look at, like those
first two picks in the first in the second round,
if there's two positions where you can have a guy
who could have at least a moderate impact this year.
The two possessions that you can look at are on
the offensive line, where you have the potential train right tackle,
right guard in starting as a rookie, and receiver pretty
(23:00):
much everywhere else, they're going to have to find and
carve out a rule. And if that, if this is,
if this is like how the Cardinals have done with
their top picks before they drafted Paris Johnson and they
just put him in a left tackle immediately. They drafted
Marvin Harrison, made him the ex immediately, and so if
(23:22):
it'd be interesting to see what they do there. But
there are also is there for you one one or
two more likely tackles. Josh Connery, Oregon. He's a guy
that's possibly going the first round. Is there anyone else
to know for day one?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
No, I don't think so. I mean we can mention,
and I think he's gonna go on day two. Well,
we can mention. Uh arianta Ursery the mammoth, the mammoth
tackle out of Minnesota. He you know, he came out
of the combine and really impressed because it's very rare
(23:59):
just to see a guy that's six' six AND i
want to make SURE i get this weight, right three
thirty one so sixty six in a, quarter so over six,
six three hundred and thirty one, pounds and then he
moves insanely well for that. SIZE i mean five h
one forty one hundred and eleven inch broad like explosive
(24:20):
for that. Size so it'll be interesting to see because you,
know guys like again just athletic, comparisons not comparing, players
but guys Like Jason, Peters Darnell, Wright Roger, saffold who've
been drafted in the top sixty, Picks Andrew whitworth and
had really good. Careers matched that athletic size and, profile
(24:44):
he'll be an interesting one to, Watch but you, KNOW
i think he's more of A day two guy. Personally
but like you, said with the kind of dearth of
round one just lignement, talent you could see some somebody that,
big that moves that well potentially getting getting a.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Call there are two interior guys worth, noting even THOUGH
i Think seth AND i would maybe agree that they.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Probably wouldn't be targeted by The.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Cardinals but you've Got alabama Guard Tyler, booker who was
for the longest time just penciled it is he's going
to be the first guard taking off the. Board and
then you've Got Gray, zabel the rising kid out Of
North Dakota state who played multiple spots but was a
left tackle this last year because he was the best
lineman projects as a, guard maybe a, center and he's
(25:38):
been mocked the Card in, fact Both booker And zabel
had been mocked by notable mock draft, people notable. Analysts
at one time or another this offseason going to The, Cardinals,
seth you And justin were talking in our group chat
About Tyler booker and the thing that the tape is.
Good the character is ex, Salent the coaches love like
(26:03):
he's A Will anderson type worker, leader you, know character.
Guy but he moved, really really poorly at the, combine
which leads you to, have, basically what is your major
concern With?
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Booker, YEAH i actually wrote about him, today just as you,
know kind of going through the consensus big, board looking
at at the guys that could be available in the
range of The cardinals Pick booker comes out and, realistically you,
know again it's not the talent that you're concerned, about
(26:36):
but guys that move Like, booker it's very rare to
see them. Succeed came in just a shade under six y,
five over three hundred and twenty, pounds so he's not overtly.
Heavy he has really really long arms thirty four and
a half inch, arms massive, hands eleven inch. Hands but
(26:58):
he had a decent, vertical really bad broad jump just
a fourteenth percentile ninety four, inches and then his three
cone literally just barely beat the eight second. Cutoff that
we have to be, undraftable and then his twenty yard
shuttle barely beat the four to nine that you want
(27:19):
to see these guys in front. Of there's a lot
of names in this, list man that that tested, similarly
and there's only, one AND i guess we can throw
in a, second but there's only one that has Been
WHAT i would say is a you, know a success
(27:42):
in THE. Nfl and he was drafted, early and That's Mikey,
potty you, potty you, know came out Of idaho a
little bit bigger at three point thirty, one but same
same type of arm, length you, know same type of
testing numbers to, say and he was actually a little
worse in the short, shuttle coming at four nine to
(28:04):
three versus a four eight four For. Booker so, that's you,
know the one. Thing but like the other names are not.
Great and the only other one that's been successful Was Aaron.
Banks AND i Think banks went in the third. ROUND
(28:25):
i don't remember if it was the second or the third.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
ROUND i think it was. THIRD i think it was.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Third but you, know so that's the. Thing SO i,
personally and this is just, ME i don't matter for.
ANYTHING i went and actually he went in the late.
Second SO i would not take Uh Tyler booker in
the first. ROUND i just.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Wouldn't if he was.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
There about what about? SEVEN i Think zabel because of the,
versatility because of the. ATHLETICISM i, mean we're talking about
a guy that's literally started at five per positions along
the offensive, line which is you, know absurd size, wise
he's a little lean at three. Twelve, uh you, know
(29:09):
more of a tackle measurable than a than a guard
at that. Weight but just, insane insane athleticism testing. NUMBERS i,
mean we've seen guys like that come out and and
they're hard to. Find. Uh his broad jump in it
(29:30):
and his vertical jump are literally over ninetieth percentile In,
actually his vertical jump if you put it in the
guard metrics is ninety ninth percentile all. Time like that's
how good his vertical, was you, know and you look
at you look at names that have come, Out, man
there's a lot of a lot of good. Ones obviously
(29:51):
the highest end that you, know we don't talk, about
but but built very, similarly tested very, similarly is like
A Steve. Hutchinson now, again you ain't Getting Steve watchinson
like if he turns Into Steve, hutchinson you just tip your.
Cap but like you're not projecting him to.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Be, oh that's that's. Unfair it's.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Unfair and again we would like to note even though
we don't know, exactly so middle of the first round
to the end of the first, round, yeah maybe even
the top of the second.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Round that's just how the draft kind of.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Goes, uh it would be a break from it would
be straying from the trends that The cardinals have had
the last two seasons with the draft of two years
they where they haven't taken AN fcs guy at.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
All like the smallest school The.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Cardinals have gone in the two years was was You
aby and that was last year With Tejon. Palmer he
was a sixth round pick day sixth round. Pick so
that'll be interesting to see with. That and so that
that kind of wraps up Our day one. Guys you,
know so coming up next with The rise Of secred
Podcast The best Are cardinals talking of let's look at.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Guys to consider on day. Two that's got our Next
on rece, up he Read.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
We're back on The rise Of seared Podcast The Best
Our cardinals tac of the web now looking at rounds
two and three and this so this is where we
will start to talk about a few more interior.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Uh but but into the tackles Uh ursery you already
talked about as a maybe late round one uh sneaking in.
There uh guys to know tackles to know in day?
Two would that include guys Like Marcus Embouh Does Emery
(31:34):
jones make it into day?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
TWO lsu guy.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
You know you mentioned Obviously connorley and And Nursery jones
is a guy that he's GONNA i think he's gonna
go on day, two but probably third, round you, know
which again is still that's still. GREAT i, mean there's
nothing wrong with. That another, One Anthony belton out Of
North Carolina state's a guy that that could go in
(31:59):
the in the third. Round you know he's he came
out and or do my notes, go oh he came
out you know at six, six three hundred and thirty six. Pounds,
again a lot of these guys you wonder if they're
if they're positional, versatile or if they're right tackles only
(32:21):
with their, size because it's just it's just odd how many,
massive massive guys we've seen come out this. Year the
other question is, like based on this guy's size or
these some of these guys, size are they guys that
that you have to move inside a guard like we've
(32:42):
seen With Makai becton, Right and so those are all
questions that that teams will have to. Answer this What
i'll say About belton six six three thirty six tested
in the sixty seventh and seventy percentile in his, jumps
but his his speed agility metrics were just at the average.
(33:03):
Fifty so he's a very average. Mover but he's. Explosive
so so that's WHY i wonder if he can play
that that guard, position you, know if you move him
inside the, guard because he is so, explosive, uh in
more of a you, know power based. Scheme but we'll
(33:23):
see how that works, out you, know because if you
put his metrics as a, guard he actually is is
an above average mover uh and and things like. That
but we've seen, guys you, Know Donovan, smith who is
the guy out of shoot where DID i lose? It
To Landon? Dickerson excuse? Me and even like A Dominic
(33:46):
pooney last year that have all been, drafted and you
know that had similar movement. Skills uh To, belton you Mentioned.
JONES i Like Emory. JONES i, thought you, know it's
it's always tough to be the other.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Guy Memory jones's polarizing is kind of how the vibe
That i've gotten from What i've, read What i've heard
on podcasts and things like that is that you either
believe In Emory jones or you're like not so.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Much, well you got to remember, too, man it's always
really difficult to be the other, guy, Right like you're
talking about the consensus number, one number one player coming
into this year along the offensive. Line, now like we,
Said Josh simmons probably surpassed him during the process if
(34:40):
he doesn't get. Hurt, however coming into the, season it was,
literally it was Literally Will campbell with a bullet like
there was not really any question about who the number
one guy. Was you, Know jones came. IN i think
we're all a little surprised about how lean he. Was
he came in at only three p, fifteen but good arm,
(35:01):
length big. Hands, again another guy with massive hands in this.
Draft so the question, becomes you, know is he versatile
or is he a right tackle only he.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
PROFILES i was just, saying which you, know The cardinals could, Use,
like there are lots of teams who who could definitely
use a right tackle only that's not that's not a. Downside,
uh it just makes them less versatile off the bench
if they're if they end up being a swing tackle
for a.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Year.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Right and the thing is With jones is this is
obviously super high. End SO i don't want people to
take this the wrong. Way but like if he, play
if he comes out you know and plays, well, uh
or or not even plays. Well if he you, know
he's a guy that's built similarly to former first round
Pick Ryan, ramchek who had a great career for The. Saints,
(35:59):
right you, Know ramcheck came out Of, wisconsin so another
blue blood, program a program that really you, know and
and Again ramcheck wasn't overly heavy at three ten coming,
Out so So jones checked similar. Profiles, uh you, know
(36:20):
doesn't mean he'll ever live up to that, level because
again that's high high. Level one more gut or actually
a couple more guys we should mention you Mission Josh
connorly he might be you, know it'll be him or
nursery as the next tackle depending On, again we have
to always give the caveat About simmons. Knee you, know
(36:41):
if if people don't like what they get back in
the knee or or the, medicals it's it's a different.
Conversation But, connorly you, know six five three eleven was
was That oregon took almost all of us snapped at left.
Tackle he played some at left guard and right guard this,
(37:03):
year but like very very very. Few and he moves.
Well and so the question, becomes is he a guy
that you see having the versatility to play left tackle
or is he a guy that he? IS i, mean
(37:24):
he's genuinely probably the smallest of these. Guys he came
in at six under six five and three hundred eleven,
pounds so it's his three thirty three and a half
inch arms don't. Matter but he was also one of
the most athletic, guys which you, know if you're going
to be, small you have to be uber love. It, yeah,
(37:46):
Yeah and so that's. Him you, know he's a guy
THAT i think might have to kick in the. Guard
and that's not a shot at. HIM i JUST i
just worry about the the ability to hold up on
the edge. Consistently but he's profiled similarly to guys that
(38:06):
have been drafted in the first round like brought Her
jones And Tyler. Geydon so it's not it's not out
of the. Question and you, know he's he's a guy
that's been you, know very good while he was At
oregon and and had a good. Career you, know he's
(38:29):
not a guy that had to bounce around to find
out how good he.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Was.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Uh the Other texas Tackle Cameron, Williams, uh he's he's
an interesting one because, again when you're the other, guy right,
like you tend to get overlooked a little. Bit, uh six,'
six came in at. THREE seventeen i think we were
a little surprised about the Leanness. Of. Williams uh, you
(38:56):
know he looks a little bit bigger uh than he
will but he's got vines. FOR arms, i mean he's.
Long armed and, THEN again I know i've mentioned this,
a bunch but like hand size in, this class dude's
got eleven and three eighths and hands, like massive. Massive hands,
(39:16):
you know the Question on williams is going to be,
movement skills and then you're taking a you're taking. A
risk this dude was a one. Year starter he had,
a excellent, excellent season but he has problems because and
(39:37):
this is again what where you have TO really i
don't want to say, get lucky but you have to
really trust. Your scouts you're talking about a guy that had,
one year had some penalty issues because the strength wasn't
what we expected and the movement skills didn't. Necessarily match
but he's got extremely long arms and and he probably
(40:01):
can be a guy that that you can move inside
or leave it right tackle with the size. And length,
but again one. FULL year, i mean this dude played
one hundred and twenty five snaps in twenty three just
so like he literally just was one.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Said mel, kuiper said wondered why he even. Came out
he would have been the, perfect end especially especially with.
Nil MONEY now.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
I think this, is so this IS what i always
think about guys, like him when they have a good
enough year to go on. Day two you you just
do it because with the with the changes that are
Happening at texas, in general you're, PROBABLY like i don't
want to take, a, Risk RIGHT like i don't Want
to that. MAKES sense i don't want to be there
(40:46):
and then a couple more guys real.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
QUICK good i would say we have to talk about the,
guards though because there, are three well definitely two that
are like lights out guards that you're that you're gonna
see go on. DAY two i would love to See
the Cardinals get wyther one. Of them one Would Be
donovan jackson Out Of, ohio state who ended up being
their left tackle down their stretch run for their title
(41:10):
great guard and proved he can. Play tackle then You've
Got Tate, rutledge georgia that beautiful no but in the
combine running that four nine seven at six sixth three with.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
That mullet flowing in.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
The, Wind yes but those THOSE two i think are
are are fantastic Guard prode so if they go a
different direction on, round one so they go with, PASS
rusher I, Think ratledge i'm Sorry, not Rutledge But, Tate
Ratledge donovan jackson at number forty seven would be absolutely
home run. Picks PERSONALLY and i Know that Marcus embo
is didn't he play tackle For, to purdue but is
(41:53):
there's a lot of question marks of where he's going.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
To play is that what that is?
Speaker 3 (41:56):
For?
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Him, yeah yeah definitely and you know he's a guy
that has those, question marks and so you have to
you have to decide where you. Value him another guy
that's getting looks at at tackle but could kick in,
the guard that could that's gonna go on, day. Two.
Jess UH and i know we try not to talk
(42:17):
about these guys, too much But, THE jonah i can't
even pronounce his last name down at u of, a right.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
You.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Know uh He, so mbo, you know real quick. Came in, he's,
like yeah Uh, but mbo, real quick tiny man like
tiny tiny six four three hundred pounds see three. H
THREE but i mean that's definitely. Water weight when you
come in, that small right you you drink. AS much
i mean he might be sub two hundred pounds or
(42:47):
three hundred pounds uh in. Real life and so you
know the question is what can? He do can he? Play?
Inside uh can't, you know even if they had to
kick him into center with. The size another one that
(43:07):
you know you're really projecting because like, you said this
is he played a ton at, right guard but back
in twenty twenty two and then it's only played right,
tackle since including some, you know an injury plagued twenty twenty.
Three season so like he's a he's a, tough one
uh the And then jonah out out of U of
(43:31):
a he's big six four two three twenty four, you know,
he played but. Same thing this is a dude that
played seven hundred and ninety snaps in twenty two at,
right guard one hundred and ninety five at right guard
in twenty three with six hundred and ninety three at,
right tackle and then he basically played a fifty to
fifty split at left and right tackle. Last, year Obviously
(43:52):
After jordan morgan went TO, the nfl the problem becomes
there's a strength Question with jonah AND obviously mbo. As
well like those are guys that have to prove that
they can they can hold up at the point of.
Attack consistently but The way Savyah seven, nea, moves man
(44:18):
you know he is he is, an elite elite athlete
at the, guard position moves similar to Like A quinn
minor as when he was coming Out OF wisconsin D Three.
Wisconsin whitewater so like that is you know again that
is what you're looking for on, that question, you know for.
(44:39):
Those QUESTIONS but i want to go Back to ratledge
And And. Donovan, jackson here here's my question, For, you
JESS and i genuinely don't. Have Answer donovan jackson's only
played on the left side in. His Career rat ledge
has basically he took four snaps in his career at,
(44:59):
left card so he's basically only played right guard. His
career is are is it? Important enough does it matter
enough in those instances, to you like where you have
potentially a bigger need at the right guard, right now
like with that way or do you, just trust, you
(45:22):
Know justin frye enough to, be, like hey You Know
donovan jackson like the back of, your hand you, go
ahead you know you you make. That call That's the
AND like, I said i don't have. An answer But
But ravage ratlage is, an elite Elite Mover Joe, Joe
(45:42):
Toney ali marpett Level Mover, kyle long who's an all pro.
AS well, i mean that's that's what you're talking about
in terms of. Movement skills i've seen some comps To
Like dalton Risner Or. Quinn minarez so like you're talking
about a guy that's gonna come in get the. Job
done as Far As donovan. JACKSON goes i think he's
a plug and play like, You know tenure type. Of
(46:05):
guy like he's. That good the the question you have
with with both guys is is you know what do you?
Need more and who who do you? Trust more, BUT
yeah i mean this is a great draft to have
these needs just because they're all there's a lot, of, options, right.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Yes YES and i think Without The justin, Fry Factor
TAIT ratledge i think is the one. You like it's
the easier one to Bet On donovan jackson because you've
got the guy on. The inside YOU if i WOULDN'T
blame i wouldn't Blame the cardinals For taking Jackson, over
Ratledge but.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
I'd Probably.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
TAKE ratledge, i mean especially especially since you have a
right guard job that you really.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Don't it Is It?
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Isaiah adams is it one of these new guys that we're?
Talking like but it it'd be perfect to. Add there
NOT that i Don't think dan That the jackson could,
do it but that athleticism is is something.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Else anybody else? Of note on? Day two or should
we jump into our day? Three, guys yeah?
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Real quick the tackles, uh uh there's a kid Out Of.
Boston College, ozzie trapeo massive. MASSIVE kid i think he
came in at six' eight, just eight yeah. So massive.
Guy uh there so he's a good one to know
(47:40):
on on day, on day, two third round we're talking
here like he's not, gonna go early you know he
but really. Really big guy the question with him is
just going, to be strength right like that'll you know
guys that long you want to see. How they Are
(48:01):
and Then wyatt millam he's ANOTHER one that i don't
know where he Profiles Out. OF west virginia i just
know he's a. Good football player, But you know. I've
seen him i've seen him mocked. As a guard i've
seen him mocked. As a tackle came in, at sixty six.
Three hundred pounds but thomp's really well to A guy
the cardinals put a big Run on will freeze right
(48:24):
like so so like those. Are interesting ones, But You
know wyatt milliams only played left tackle, in his, career
you know so again it might be a one year
transition where he's not a guy that can play right away.
As he's adjusting if you do want to kick him.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
In the guard thanks for The rise. Of secret Podcasts
best are cardinals, tack a little let's go? To day
three who are the names to know late in the
draft that's? Come of, exppressive he read.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
We're back on the rise. Of secret Podcasts best are
cardinals talk? On the web day three? Players to know
not that we're going to be able to peg some.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Of these picks but at least just the name that
stands out to Me from WHAT i'm what i have
heard from other shows And Things, Like Charles Grant Women.
Mary small school is he a guy that's gonna go?
On day three is he like he's going to get
that look with those very long arms six four three
eleven nearly thirty.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Five, In charms.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Yeah grant's one that you know people are going to
want to, see, up close right and because, like you
said when you're coming from, the small school you have
you have to, do everything perfectly and we rarely see
those guys end up on day one or. Even day.
Two it's rare but, the the metrics the the athletic,
(49:47):
profile coming, out you, know six five three. Hundred eleven
pounds here's the crazy, Thing. Of this jess he's only
played football. For six years he didn't start until he
was a junior. In. High. School uh crazy now here's.
The other issue he doesn't he didn't play A lot At.
(50:12):
William and mary so you have these questions that you're, betting,
On traits right you're, you're, basically, SAYING like hey i
believe that this guy is so elite gifted from a
physical standpoint that we can coach. Him up enough and
(50:34):
we saw enough in the in the One year At
william and mary that we're not. Concerned. About it right
so that's the that's the. Bugaboo with him Another guy
that i've seen starting to. Gain some steam and, he's,
really interesting man because you, rarely see, guys you know,
like you said coming from these smaller schools. Getting This
(50:58):
Buzz but jackson Slater Out of sacramento state six, three
eleven pounds he had really good times you kind of.
Look at it he's he played left guard his Entire Time.
At sacramento state was A First Team. Fcs all AMERICAN
(51:18):
Obviously Not ap all american or, anything like that but
really really good guard prospect. On the interior so so
that's another name to know on day three because he
impressed in a. LOT of ways, i mean, again six
three three eleven thirty one inch or thirty. One bench,
(51:41):
reps excuse me easier to say than it is, to,
think about uh really really solid athletic testing and Was Dominant.
At sacramento state so Again something with grant and With
and with slater right that we kind of. Think is
important those guys got to be domin at at. The,
smaller level, yeah you know and and those those, two
(52:06):
in particular were.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
You, know from.
Speaker 4 (52:10):
There it's you you got to just be What's the word?
I'm looking for like you got to find you got to,
find the gems like you got to find the guys
that fit in what, you're looking for what you're, wanting
to do and and things.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Of that nature and it's important to note that the
remember how excited Everyone Was for Larcita Smith. And Marquis
hayes lcita smith has, been bouncing around. Hasn't Stuck anywhere
marcus hayes is out. Of THE league he i think
he WAS in the. Ufl last year and And people,
(52:48):
loved hayes right remember that that rookie.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Year in Camp. THEY loved hayes i know there's we haven't.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
MENTIONED any centers i want to say it just for
the sake, of saying it because when You Bring in
ohio state, offensive line coach it feels like you're destined
to get an Offensive Lineman. From ohio state so We Talked,
About josh simmons We Talked. About donovan jackson seth McLaughlin
was the. Nation's best center He Was the, rimington trophy
(53:16):
winner played only Ten Games. In tours achilles that means
He will, go day three someone. Will draft him and
but he's not the only. Like good center you look
at the Athletic Traits of jared Wilson.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
From from georgia.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
It.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Isn't As well and i'm trying TO remember who i,
Heard on another?
Speaker 3 (53:36):
But is IT is It usc Center. Joon of monheim
that's that's really probably going to. Be, Pretty decent.
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Yeah monheim is. An interesting one the Kid Out. OF
jacksonville state i believe it is that By way of
georgia that was one of. The top guys And then,
The Georgia guy jared wilson was is supposed to. Be pretty.
Good you know there this is a this is a
class of centers that are going to regress the progress
(54:11):
that have been made for guys going in round. One,
and two, uh you know and not in. A negative,
way i mean these are guys that are going To
go in, uh you know these are on probably at
best in, the third round But likely.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
On.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
Day three uh there's.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
Ten produces like the top prospects at, center every year
like just because they is Always From.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
The big ten it's just because of what they're. Asked
to do from, a call standpoint they. Understand the game
there's one name we do, Have. TO mention jess i
don't know if you this was. In Your, Notes drew.
Kendall pete's son. So that's, right so yeah So FIRST
(54:53):
team all. Acc this year he started thirty seven games
at Center for The Boston, for boston college so he's
definitely gonna get a look. Around THE league but i
mean six or four but only three hundred and eight
pounds real. Short arms, test it fine very, very adequate athleticism,
(55:17):
but you know not a not a power guy.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
In the least And anybody else before we, wrap THIS
up because i know you've got to get.
Speaker 4 (55:25):
Out, of, HERE no no i think this is a
great year to. Need, Offensive, lineman man like it's a
great year to have these guys or have the Need
that the cardinals have because it's not an immediate need
kind of like what we talked about with, the defensive
line but it is a need that they can fulfill
and fill out and, get you know get, taken care of, which.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Is huge awesome, so with that we will wrap up
this Edition of The Rise, Of Secret Podcast Best eric
cardinals talk.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
On the whib this is.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
Our third draft shoh what we'll do over the next
next week we'll dive into, the wide receivers but until Then.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
That's Seth Cox. I'm jess rude. Thanks for, listening as
always we'll be. Back again soon.
Speaker 5 (56:11):
Thanks for listening to the latest Edition Of The Rise up.
Sea red podcast listen to previous episodes and subscribe to
The Show, On apple Podcasts, Stitch Your, radio audio boom
or many other podcast platforms so shows are delivered directly to.
Your mobile device please give the show A five star
rady and always support the sponsors who.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Support the show we'll be back soon for the Best
Hour of cardinals Talk.
Speaker 5 (56:34):
On The Web rise up Red Cea B red sea
red And Of Course rise up Sea reds out there
(57:02):
is at There is at
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There is a
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