Episode 220 -- Larry Pollard on Bending the Rules, 1983 Charlotte Debacle with Richard Petty

In the second installment of our interview with Larry Pollard, he talks about the pushback he received from some of his Petty Enterprises teammates after being named co-crew chief, the trick gas can used to win at Talladega and the part he played in Richard Petty’s infamous win at Charlotte in the fall of 1983.

Larry, a veteran driver back home in Canada, then makes a deal to go from turning wrenches to turning wheels in the Busch Series.

Hosts Rick Houston and Steve Waid then study the June 2, 1983 issue of Grand National Scene.

Bobby Allison and Bill Elliott are battling it out for the lead late in the World 600 when they get caught up in somebody else’s mess and crash. That turns the lead up to Richard Petty, who then gets passed just after the restart by Neil Bonnett. The Allison-Elliott crash is Neil’s SECOND stroke of good fortune on his way to victory lane that day.

Bosco Lowe isn’t happy with Winston Cup drivers in the Saturday event, and there’s a feature on LONG-time NASCAR official Ernie Moore.

Finally ... Rick and Steve give their take on Ross Chastain's miraculous Haul on the Wall move at Martinsville, and what it might mean to NASCAR history if, in fact, the driver goes on to capture this year's championship.

NOTE: This show is not associated in any way with American City Business Journals, owner of the Scene brand.

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Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Hello, My name is Rick Houston, and welcome to the Scene Bought podcast,
your source for all things NASCAR history, presented by Las Vegas Motor Speedway,
America's racing show place. And Iwe said and said that I'm just
trying to get by Mega living,you know what I mean, enjoy this
thing. And yeah, it rubbedhim wrong. Your name when you do

(00:24):
run good? I think it evenrubbed him wronger his exact words for me.
He said, if we can't getby with two left tires, there's
something wrong. And I says,well, that's that's why I looked out.
I'm sorry, but that's I justmade the call. It's not you
did good. You did good.I know for a fact he didn't know.
I just got that in my heartbecause he'd been complained about the motors

(00:46):
wouldn't run. And I guess oldChief and Kenny Willson, well, by
god, we'll give him a motorlittle run. Let's do this deal here,
I said, let's just do abush deal instead. It'll get us
our feet wet on getting our equipmenttogether in the cars and the people rucking
trailers, and I'll driver for nothingthe day NASCAR and all of us associated

(01:08):
in anyway. When NASCAR forget it'spast, that's today, we don't have
any future. Hello everyone, Iam Steve Wade and my name is Rick
Houston, and welcome to the SameVault Podcast, presented by Las Vegas Motor
Speedway, America's racing show place ina track that truly cares about NASCAR history.

(01:30):
So here is the deal. Jeannieand I got away for a couple
of days last week and we headedto our go to place, Pigeon Fords,
Tennessee, the first capital of theworld. I love that place.
It is home to one of myfavorite Mexican restaurants in the world, No
Way Josese, And of course weheaded straight there. No Ways, huh,

(01:55):
do not pass go, do notcollect? Two hundred dollars straight to
know what that name? I likedthat name. The next night, Gee
decided that she wanted to go toGuy Fieri's new place there, so of
course I had to say yes aftereating it my Mexican place the night before.
So we go to Guy Fieri's placeand we're standing in the gift shop

(02:17):
right outside the restaurant itself. It'sfunny how the gift shop is right outside
the dining area. Yeah, justlike Cracker brough Right. I am wearing
my Scene Vault podcast jacket when Ihear somebody go Rick Houston, And at
first I thought they were just givingme a hard time about my name being

(02:38):
on my jacket. But then thisgentleman tells me that he enjoys our podcast
and that he has made his wifelisten to it. Nason an accomplishment,
and from the look on her face, she evidently wasn't nearly as enthusiastic about
it as he was. Like,I said, that wasn't accomplishment. Well.

(03:00):
He then asked if it would beokay to have his wife take a
photo of the two of us together, of he and I together, And
let me tell you, the luckon Jenny's face was as priceless as any
I've ever seen on her. Shestunned that anybody would ask you to take
a picture with him. I didnot know that her eyes could roll that

(03:23):
far back in her head. Oh, is that there around? Okay?
Well, the guy's name is KevinRay and he is from South Carolina.
Now, he is not the KevinRay who was once pretty heavily involved in
NASCAR and whose father was well knownfor driving the semi with a huge American

(03:44):
flag trailing behind at Talladega. Yeah, that was sir. Yeah, Well,
after the week I had had tothat point, Kevin, my new
friend, you absolutely made my day. Although I'm not quite sure Janey has
recovered from that answer, I askedher see one of my autographing I won't

(04:10):
repeat I know the answer to that, Steve, what's the most memorable interaction
you've ever had with a fight?Well, Rick, I have to tell
you I've had many over the years. They've all been lightful experiences. But
the one that really sticks out inmy mind happened in North Wilkesboro long about
nineteen ninety six, I think afterthey had their last race there, the

(04:33):
Chamber of Commerce up there in NorthWorks World called me and Tom Higgins and
asked us to come to a meetingat the library and just explain what happened,
our take on all of it,and what will Broke could do this
somethday get a race back. Wellit was a very nice meeting, nice
gathering, nice people, very verywell informed on racing, and I just

(04:55):
proud to be there. And wehad finished it when all of a sudden,
the door is open to the library, and then walked a young man,
and the ladies standing next to me, who was hitting up the whole
meeting said, here comes our biggestraised fan, and he was obviously someone
with special needs. He came rightto me with a book in a hid

(05:16):
and he patted me on my shoulderand he smiled and opened up that book
and he started pointing the pictures.He couldn't speak, but he made noises
and he made happy sounds and showedme the pictures and kept tapping him on
my shoulder and looking at my faceand smiling. So eventually I just started
tapping him on his shoulder back,looking at him into his face and smiling,

(05:39):
and finally he finished, took hisbook and waved to me and left.
And I turned to that lady andI said, ma'am, that young
man knows his racing. I dobelieve he's a big deal Jared fan because
of all those pictures of Dale hepointed to in that book. And she
said, no, no, it'snot Dale. I said, well,
then what's he doing? He said, it's you. It's you. He's

(06:03):
seeing you on TP and he camedown here to see you. Rick.
I've never had a feeling like badin my life. That was just really
something Spaniel. That is pretty cool, Steve. That's very cool story,
Steve. This week, in thesecond installment of our interview with Larry Pollard,
he talks about the pushback that hereceived from some of his Petty Enterprise's

(06:27):
teammates after being named co cru chief. Larry talks about the trick Gascan used
to win at Talladega and the partthat he played in Richard Petty's infamous win
at Charlotte in the fall of nineteeneighty three. Infamous may not be the
strong enough world for that big thing. It was definitely infamous about history making

(06:51):
and not a good way about that. And even if we stopped there,
that should be enough to satisfy mostpeople. But Larry was a driver back
home in Canada and he made adeal to go from turning wrenches to turning
wheels in the Bush series, Iremember that. Then in our second segment,

(07:16):
we're going to go back to theJune second, nineteen eighty three issue
of Grand National. See Bobby Allisonand Bill Elliott are battling it out for
the lead late in the World sixhundred when they get caught up in somebody
else's mess and they crish. Thatturns the lead over to Richard Petty,
who then gets passed just after therestart by Neil Bonnet. Now the Alison

(07:36):
Elliott crash is Neil's second stroke ofgood fortune on his way to Victory Lane
that day. Bosco Lowe isn't happywith Winston cut drivers in the Saturday event.
And there's a feature on long timeNASCAR official Ernie Moore. And finally
this week we have new Patreon supportfrom Nicky Marks, who also heals from

(08:01):
British Columbia. Just like Larry Pollard, we are opening up a Canadian market.
We're growing in the national How aboutthat? Rick? Listeners, If
you can please support the podcast,you can do that by checking out our
t shirts over on our website wwwdot the Snbought dot com. Click on
shop and you can check out ourSam Bought podcast and LW Right t shirt

(08:28):
that we have available. Listeners.If you can support us on a monthly
basis, you can do that viaPatreon dot com, Slash the Same Bought
Podcast, or if you would preferto do a one time show of support,
you can do that via PayPal dotme slash the Same Bought podcast or
Venmo dot com slash the Same Boughtpodcast. And as a reminder, this

(08:54):
show is not affiliated in any waywith American City Business Journals, owner of
the same You mentioned your relationship withRobin. You had a good relationship,
but still that was a core groupof guys that had been together a while.

(09:16):
Oh, absolutely had won a lotof races. Was there ever any
pushed back from the veterans on theteam to you being the new guy and
coming in and said, okay,this is what? Oh yeah, what
did you? They handled it okay, but when you heard the backlash from

(09:39):
it, it was kind of uglyin my opinion. Um, Mike being
Steve Beale, Uh, he wasa crucie for a little bit. Oh,
I can't remember his name. He'dbeen there forever and he was back

(10:00):
doing work in the shop. Yeah, I could see that. I don't
think Robin did. I think himand I were pretty straight up. We
had an issue. We'd talked toeach other, But other guys they just
tony glovers and stuff. You justgo, man. I wish I didn't
have said that. I'm just tryingto get by mega living, you know,
what I mean, enjoy this thing. And yeah, it rubbed him

(10:22):
wrong. And then when you dorun good, I think it even rubbed
him wronger, you know what Imean. And that's my opinion on that.
You know. So you go toTalladega and again I was reading in
your book you put an air hosein the gas can. What was that
designed to do? Well? Justnow you're talking about the gas can,

(10:43):
like, yeah, thats right there. That's a restriction on how fast the
gas comes under that can that holds. If you make that a quarter inch
bigger, it will empty the tankquicker. Eric Horn just a good,
good friend of mine. I hiredhim because Richard came to me and said,
you know, anybody can change thetire and help us. And I
says, absolutely, this guy fromback in Washington, stay at Eric Horn.

(11:07):
He can do it all. Didhe wind up at Robert Yes for
years, biggie, Yeah, wonderfulperson, but he couldn't change the tire.
But anyways, I thought Richard andhired him. So old Eric moved
down here with him, him andhis wife, and oh my god,
it was a big commitment for him. And and it's kind of an iffy

(11:31):
deal with it. So so anyways, I'd stay at nights and we'd practice
with Eric Horn to get so youlearn how'd change the tire real good.
Anyways, he got pretty good adg I'm good at and he actually changed
tires for Robert Yates for years untilhis back gave him trouble. Anyways,
in the gas can, I hadthis idea, if we just put a
little air in the tank, itwould really empty the tank quickly, just

(11:52):
shoot it out, you know.So Eric and I only two people that
knew that whole deal. We atnights, we go back and we'd fill
these gas kinds up with water andwe time them to see how much we
could how much air we'd get bywithout blowing the tank up. But at
the same time, yeah, that'skind of important. So we had it

(12:13):
all figured out. And so laststop at Talladey we were I think,
run third and I'm thinking we canget this thing off pit road because back
then you didn't change tires. Thenat Talladega, the tires was so hard
that you just run them longer theywork better. The last stop, I

(12:33):
grabbed that old air was and Istuck it up in my pant leg and
pulled it up my shirt like this, you know, and just and then
old George, Big George was gasman on Petty's car. Karmody, George,
karmody, I think. And anyways, I said, okay, Pitt
this time, Richard. He comesdown pit road and I said, I'm
gonna help you. Jordan says,I got it, I got it,
and I say, no, no, I gotta help, you know.

(12:54):
So so I'm on the back sideof him in the air, hose up
in my hand like this, andI just stick it up the air on
the vent and just you know,and it just oh, that tank just
in three and a half seconds,it was gone. And I so I
go. I said, uh,okay, go go go, go,
go go. You know, Richard, he's cussing me on the radio.

(13:15):
He says, you didn't get enoughgas and this as you're good, you're
good, and he says, thereain't no way, he says, and
he's been around, he's made afew pit stuff. He knows how long
it takes to put it a tankof gas in it, but ain't We
got in there won the race,so that was pretty cool. He had
the chance to go back to Victoriathat year with Bobby Allison on his plane

(13:39):
that evidently was quite the adventure.Wonderful, wonderful man. Just working for
Petty as a crew chief. BobbyAllison calls you and says, hey,
we're going back to your hometown.Do you want to go? That kind
of explains the deal, you knowwhat I mean. It's not You're not
into this deal for nothing, butjust to try to do the bitch can't

(14:00):
everything you do? So I calledMaurice and I said, listen, you
know, Bobby Allison asked me togo race with them as way. Can
I go? Yeah, yeah,I laund you're back by SuDS and Sudan's
okay. So we flew up there. We opened up I think two malls.
He run three nights a dirt trackYakama Speedway and another race. Flew

(14:24):
the plane wake you up in themorning at six o'clock because he had to
go. He it was amazing howhe how he could do that and then
race a race and get out,chat with the people, sign autographs,
talk. You know. You know, I love Bobby Allison. He's just
him and Judy and Gary Nelson andGary's wife went and myself that for the

(14:50):
whole three or four days you've got. So so we get done. We
flew out of a place called Yuma, Washington, little old airstrip to get
out of Yakima, Washington, andwe all had our coffee. You know,
we're get on the plane and gottago. We gotta time, we
gotta go, you know. Sowe're on the plane and uh so I
said, oh, well, hangon, so I'll drink. I'll just

(15:11):
drink this coffee. She goes,Now, Judy was sitting there. She
goes, now, that's all right, I just hold coffee. So he
starts climbing, and all of suddenhe says, uh, I'm gonna do
a role. We'll hang on.I'm gonna death and drink my coffee now.
And Judy says it's all right.So he does that roll barrel on
that plane and and he does itlike that. So the the gravity's going

(15:33):
up. Coffee just sitting there,perfet as ever, you know. But
he was amazing. We flew intoBirmingham or wherever he's the plane. The
air station were by hit by whatwas the name of Uetown? Uetown.
Yeah, So we go in there. I am dog tired and all I've
been doing is hanging out with himfor three days. I mean, you

(15:54):
know, just I'm junk. I'mso Anyways, we land there Monday morning,
real early in Unietown, Alabama,and I got to get back to
work because I got to go backto work at Patties Monday morning. So
called Maurice. I said, man, I'm gonna be a little bit late,
and he says, wow, getwhen you get get here when you
can, it's okay. So Iget him an old truck driving up through

(16:18):
Atlanta, there's road construction and I'mjust nodding next and anyway, I guess
the traffic stopped for the construction,and I fell asleep, and I drove
off the road and hit a andjust just rolled slowly into a gravel pile.
And next thing, I'm amery gonnaknocking the window one of the workers
and says you okay. I's ohyeah, yeah, wow wow. But

(16:42):
she just did it. You know, you just just love to do it,
all right, Charlotte, that fall, what happened? Take me take
me through straight? Goods um.We've been beat a couple three times that
year with the left side on right. We knew that so late in the

(17:06):
race were run pretty good. Wewere running really good. I don't know
if we could have won it withouthim, but we were running good.
And on the last two stops,some of the other guys were coming by
asked for tires. Go any leftsides left. You know, we're all
tires from Randy Cox was our tireguy, super neat kid. I says,

(17:26):
air them left sides up to rightside pressures. What I said,
just do it, just measure themup and see even get that? Okay?
So he did, last stop,come down. I says, we're
gonna do it. We gotta doit now, because if I knew Richmond,
he would do it. Kale woulddo it, and Daryl would do

(17:47):
it in a heartbeat. And that'sthe guy who were running with. So
so I says, air him up, So last stop, come down there
and lift the tire and put himon the wall. No, Robin,
he was changing the front time.I would say the back, and he
looked at me and says left side. And I says like that, and
he said left side, and we'regood, So let's come in there and

(18:07):
put them on. And he wentout there and come back up the back
shout, and I says, okay, Richard as this is this is pretty
good set of tires. Shows justjust look after him for a little bit,
you know, didn't want to runhim hard. I think we had
eighteen twenty laps to go something likethat. And I says, they're real
good, so just just be careful, okay, okay, ten four to

(18:29):
ten four. You know he hadhis old rag and oh, you can
hardly understand him. So he getsup there and he catches Walter and just
blows by and he's that gummy.He's are a good set of tire.
So we won that deal. Samewas coming down Pitt Road going to Victory
Lane. I just run up thewinter and took the winter and that down.

(18:52):
He says, what'd you doing thatlast stop? And I says,
I put lefts on the right andhe says, oh, okay, what
I wondered? And I says,and his exact words for me, he
said, if we can't get bywith two left tires, there's something wrong.
And I says, well, that'sthat's why I looked out. I'm
sorry, but that's I just madethe colleges, not you did good.

(19:12):
You did good. So we goin Victory Lane and here comes NASCAR with
the air gages. I guess ifwe put left sides on wrong, they'd
be aired wrong. But if theywere aired for the right, yeah,
it was great. So they comein there and they checked them, and
they didn't say it on the course. So we got through all the victory

(19:32):
celebrations and go through tech. Youknow, you gotta go tear down.
So we're going through tear down,and and I'm I had to go to
Goodyear and get that tired heal lookedafter blah blah blah, you know,
just all the stuff you do,just getting ready to go. So anyways,
I go to the motor guys,the motor room or that little tech
air and I says, Maurice wasthere, Kenny Wilson was there, Richard

(19:56):
wasn't there. He was up top, and I says, I was a
He says, Oh, we're gonnalet it cool down a little bit,
and I says a little bit,big, yeah, a little bit,
he says. And I said,Okay, well, we got a lot
to do. Let's come on.Let's hurry this up, you know,
And he says okay. So Mauriceand Kenny Wilson both say we're just going
to let it cool down of itsokay, I had some more stuff to

(20:17):
do, so I went and God, come back and there's still not there.
And I says, what's going onhere? In other words, I
did not know the motor was big? You did not? I did not?
Really? Yeah? Because yeah,because Richard said when he come down
with the press, move and theysaid, and they said, Richard,
the motors they told us in thegarage paddock are They said, Richard,

(20:40):
the things is three eighty eight orsomething. And Richard he just he I
know for a fact he didn't know. I just got that in my heart
because he'd been complained about the motorswouldn't run. And I guess old Chief
and Kenny Wilson, well, byGod, we'll give him a motor the
run. But I don't think Richardknew. I really don't. What was

(21:03):
life like back at the shop thatfallen a week? It was as normal,
it really was. Richard called me, he says, come on in
the office. So and Richard's myhero. He is. He's the man.
He presents himself properly, he saysthe right things. He's the man.
In my opinion, he earned theword king. I'm telling you yeah,

(21:26):
and he says, he says,what am I gonna do here,
Larry, that's what do you mean? He's, well, they're going to
find his thirty five thousand dollars andthen back at the day, that's a
lot of money. And he says, I just don't know what I'm gonna
do. And I said, thisis what I do, Richard. You're
asking me get from Cannon? Whatis it, Richard pay? And I

(21:48):
says, Richard, what I do, I said, is I would decline
that win. I'd say, I'venever won a race like this. I
ain't taking it like this. Isaid, didn't make you a hero,
you know, mean just it wouldjust absolutely delete any idea that you ever
cheated to win a race, becausethis one here they got us on and
he thought about it, but hedidn't didn't go that way. So yeah,

(22:14):
had you already been approached at thatpoint about the deal with Phil Parsons
and the Skull team or did thatcome after Charlotte? That was going on
all summer and I kept turning itdown because I, um, you know,
I just I was tickled. Iwas happy where I was at.
I wasn't making a great deal ofmoney, but I'm not money motivated,
you know. So us de Biokept approach me, kept approached me.

(22:38):
And then we get down to theend of the year with the Richard and
all of a sudden you're hearing allthese rumblings of Mike Curbs coming in to
buy it and they're going to moveto Kennapolis, and they're gonna bring this
guy and and that guy in andand I said, well, I mean
gonna watch this deal a little bitcloser here, you know, because I
don't I'm not necessarily all in boardon this deal, you know. So

(23:03):
Johnny Hayson us Tobacco kept calling me, and I kept in touch with him.
I says, and I'm looked afterI probably can't do this deal,
and said, wow, you justwill hang in there and let you know.
So anyways, we go to Charlottefor the last race and or the
last race to Charlotte, and ithurts. I'd heard rumblings of some of

(23:25):
the people that were going to comein and work in the shop and stuff
like that, and I wasn't.I probably wasn't on board of that deal.
So I they were the one guywas walking down Pitt Road at Charlotte
and we had the car on theline. Just put the window on that
up. And back in the day, the crewchie did that. Now there's
some guy does that. But I'mwalking back to the Pitt Road and this

(23:47):
guy comes up and he's I say, here, come to join us next
year. And I said, hesaid, yeah, yeah, everything's set.
I said, okay, well,good deal man. I didn't even
go to the pits. I wentback to the Scolds, the Johnny Higgs.
I knew he's in there, andI said, that deal is still
on and he says, absolutely,we're waiting for it. And I to
talk to you after the race.And I went back out. And so

(24:10):
that's how that deal come about,you know what I mean? It was
how hard a decision was it toleave Level Across? Oh it's terrible.
Yeah, that was a tough deal. But when they were leaving Level Across,
team ownership was changing, the personalit's changed. It made it a

(24:30):
lot easier. You know. Thisis another This is another fact. Linda
came to my apartment in Greensborough threetimes and tried to talk in to stand,
you know, and she said,oh, man, Richard just really
wants you to stay. You know, blah blah blah. And I says,
well, you know, if hehad told me that, I might

(24:51):
have had a different thing. Andshe goes, I know, that's just
Richard. He don't tell you know, he can't show his emotions, you
know, and tell him what it'slike. So you talked to Linda,
and I would assume that that wasa difficult enough conversation to have. Yeah,
but then you go and you're workingfor Richard and was it Richard and
Leo at that point? They Richardowned Fields deal, Leo run Benny Steal.

(25:18):
Okay, they had Cliff Champion andAndy Petrie over there and uh and
then in our side we had myself, Ronnie eight and Ronnie ad Cox and
uh oh man, Gary Snipes.I'm trying to thank Gary, Gary Brooks,
love Gary Brooks, Scott Robinette,just a great, great bunch of

(25:42):
guys. We had a ball therebecause we basically just started the whole deal,
the whole team and everything. Youknow, one time working with Richard
Childress and then Richard and then RichardJackson. Were you actively looking for some
sort of ride the whole or wasyour focus solely on working on the Richard

(26:04):
Jackson an amazing man. My dad'smy dad and just irreplaceable. But Richard
Jackson was number two. He wasjust my man and I just totally enjoyed
working with him. He was justsuch an amazing guy. So at the

(26:26):
end of the we ran for Rookieof the Year with Phil Parsons against Rusty
Wallace at that and we ended upsecond in that run pretty good and run
not too good, and he droveRoger Hamby stuff I think for eight ten
races. And then we ran thespeedways with our stuff. I thought we
had pretty good cars. It justit just it just was no magic there,

(26:52):
you know what I mean. Ijust I thought so much of Scott
and Gary and Snipes and all theboys. That was a tough deal there.
But what happened there was after thatyear was done, Bill Anderson came
to me from Anderson Webb Trucking inMount Area and said he was a friend

(27:18):
of Ricky Rudd because Bill Anderson cosponsored Richard Schilders's stuff back in the eighties.
And Bill and Ricky Rudd, wewe're tight. Ricky Rudd and I
we're always tight. So he cameto me and says, Larry, so
I wanted to start this new Cupteam Mountain Area. I've got a big
building. How much of the costto get everything all put together? And

(27:41):
we'll start a team. And Isaid, while I'm kind of working here
at this other deal, you knowwhat I mean. Yeah, So but
I said, I'll come up withsome figures. He said, would you
be interested in running it? AndI says, wow, I said,
we'll see. You know what Imean, because we'll say running it as
far as being a manager or acrew for running it, as far as
being the driver, running as faras the crewcie, you know, and

(28:03):
running the deal, you know,getting all the people and equipment and the
parts and everything altogether. And thenI said, well we'll say. You
know, so I come up withthis figure. And back then in eighty
five, ye three and thousand dollarsgo a long ways, So I don't

(28:25):
know what the figure was. Wecome up with the name as I met
with Bill's Anderson and his wife Annand states full one night and I got
thinking about this deal, and says, you know this, this may work
all right. So I got thisbuddy of mine out of Winston Salem to
to draw a picture of a bushGrand National car back then would be the

(28:47):
Pontiac, then the Grand Prix withBill's colors on it, ninety eight gray,
purple and blue, and I hadit under my coat kind of thing,
you know. So we went andwe eight and I handed Bill this
proposal of how much you would costto do what he wants to do.
And then I said, but Isaid, what I'll do here? Bill,
I says, let's do this deal. Here, I said, let's

(29:11):
just do a bush deal instead.It'll get us our feet wet on getting
our equipment together in the cars andthe people truck and trailers, and I'll
drive for nothing what now? Andhe's ever drove race car and says yeah,
he said okay. He says,well, let me think about it.
So two days later he called.He says, we'll do that.

(29:32):
So then I had to go backto Richard Jackson and tell him that I'm
gonna start driving again, you know. So that was the worst part about
that deal, because I loved RichardJackson. He was just the greatest guy.
But what needest thing was when Iwent to him and I told him
when I was going to do andhe says, well, he says,

(29:52):
so, man, that's awesome,he says, if you needed help,
just let me know. So hereally helped the first year and he built
or motors. You know, webought motors from him. And he was
just like right in there with meif I because he'd done all that,
he'd been to the South Boston's andall the race tracks with the Bush cars,
so I could lean on him asfar as what setups to go and

(30:14):
stuff. So it was great.What was it like getting back into the
car after a few years out ofthe seat. Was it like riding a
bicycle or did you feel like youhad to shake the rust off a little
bit? A little bit? Yeah, I think so at this level,
you know, if your hometown guygo back, you know, you can
kind of fumble your way through.But this deal here you go with Jack

(30:37):
Ingram and Tommy Houston's and all theguys that tough on that Bush series.
They've been doing a long time,and you better get your stuff together.
So, yes, we got lucky. The first race at Hickory. I
think we ended up tenth. Brandnew team, brand new car. Hadn't
been in a car for six years, so no, we were tickled to

(31:00):
death, but yes, had toget back going again, and so the
next race was Rockingham. They wouldn'tlet us run Daytona, which was great.
NASCAR wouldn't let me run Daytonham,which super That would give us time
to get ready for Hickory. Nextraces Rockingham, and we built a speedway
car and I'm in the motor thinggetting ready to go to Rockingham. Old

(31:23):
Bill Anderson comes in and he's onthe fender and he says, hilarious,
but got ready to go? AndI says, yeah, I think so.
He says. He looked at meand says, you ever been to
rock Ever drove at Rockingham? AndI says nope. The biggest thing I
drove is half my Yeah, hesays, we'll be all right. I

(31:44):
walked off. Taking the checkered flagand driving to victory lane is the goal
for any racer. It tells thecompetition. My accomplishments resulted in a trip
to the winner circle. It's nodifferent as a business owner, team leader

(32:07):
or coach. Recognizing those deserving iswhat we do every day at five Star
Awards and engraving high race fans.This is Bob Laird, director of Sales
at five Star and former Jackman forBuddy Arrington back in the eighties. Laser
engraved and full color corporate awards,as well as crystal plaques, trophies and
promotional products are just some of asample of what we offer at five Star

(32:29):
with state of the art equipment inour North Carolina facility, let our experience
graphic artists take you from idea toconcept and ultimately the finish line to If
you are beautiful and unique designs,please visit us at five Star Awards dot
net. The entire project can becompleted online. Please reach out to me
at Bob dot Laird at five StarAwards dot net nine nine nine five four

(32:52):
one one three zero. As athank you, everyone who contacts me will
receive at no charge, a collectionof NASCAR memorabilia feature Richard Petty while supplies
last. That's Bob dot Laird atfive Star Awards dot net nine five.

(33:17):
This segment is brought to our listenersby Las Vegas Motor Speedway, America's racing
show Place. So here's a questionthat I've been thinking about ever since I
talked to Larry Pollard and have reallykind of wondered about what the mood was
like behind the scenes at Pitty Enterpriseswith this new guy from Canada of all

(33:37):
places, coming in and taking overhis crew Chick. And here's my take,
Larry is one of the nicest peoplethat you would ever want to meet
in NASCAR or out of NASCAR,and he knows his stuff mechanically. You
wouldn't getting no argument from me there. Rick. However, if I have
been working in that shop and haveworked there for years and years, I

(34:01):
can absolutely see where some might feellike they were maybe passed over by this
new guy from Canada. Nice ornot. And again and again, Rick,
you're getting an argument for me onthat either. And the fact is
Larry said that he did get somepushback from certain people who had been on

(34:22):
that team for a while, regardlessof what Mightern might not have happened or
who said what and when. Here'swhat it means to be Larry Pollit.
He did answer that question, andI believe that he answered it very honestly.
But he didn't go on this longdie tribe about how unfairly he felt

(34:42):
that he was treated. He didn'tgo into specifics about anything that anybody did.
In particular, he didn't rate anyof the people who were against him
but the fact of the matter isLarry answered that question and then he moved
on in his world, it iswhat it is, So why go into

(35:05):
a lot of fussing and fighting aboutit. Well, didn't you finished saying
that Larry was one of the nicestguys inside NASCAR and outside NASCAR. That
is proof of what you just said. Let's be honest about it. We
have talked to people on this podcastthat would not have gone that route,
so I know they would not talkabout diet trade. Here's what I thought

(35:30):
was pretty cool. I texted KylePetty and I asked what he thought about
the situation, and as always,he called me back and he brought up
a really good point. With RichardPetty and dell Emmon being so close for
so long, I think the twoof them always thought that they were going
to be together, and there wasnever any plan for what might happen if

(35:52):
and when dell em And left,and so that left Petty enterprises as a
whole kind of in a quandary whenDale did leave, Yes, and that's
when Larry came into that scenario,And of course there were going to be
some doubts and they were gonna besome questions to ask about it, because
it's all new to pity and priceand so, Steve, you know how

(36:13):
we talked last week about how Larrywasn't exactly afraid to ask forgiveness rather than
permission when it came to the racecar. Yeah, Larry's a kind of
guy who acted first and maybe explainedlater. There was Talladega that spring,
and he and Eric Horne, whowent on to work for Robert Yates Racing

(36:36):
for years, they came up withthis oversized vent hose that they used to
create this trick gas cap. Richard'sabout to make his last pit stop of
the day, he's running third orso, and co crew chief Larry Poler
makes the call, We're gonna usethis special gas can and fuel the car
just a wee little bit quicker sowe can get off pit roadster And yep,

(37:00):
that's what they do, and Richardwins the race. Moran and again,
huh bye, call. I amreally surprised. We have talked about
Bobby Allison's exploits while Politan and theairplane before, and how you say that
you would never ever fly with basicallyany driver. Well, here's another tale

(37:22):
to add to that. List andthen involves Bobby Allison. I know what
kind of tailors is going to be. Larry had the chance to go back
to Victoria with Bobby and Judy andGary Nelson on one of Ba's racing barnstorm
and tours. They all get inBobby's plane and they're ready for takeoff,
and Larry wants to down the restof his coffee so it doesn't get spilled.

(37:45):
And Larry is told, no,it's all good, it'll be fine.
I'm not too sure. Then theyget up in the air and Bobby
announces that he is going to doa barrel roll. Now Larry really wants
to drink the rest of his coffeeright fast. I'd been doing a barrelrow.

(38:08):
I am just totally surprised. It'llbe fine. And Bobby does the
barrel roll, and from what Larrysaid, he didn't spill a drop of
coffee. Now, when he toldthat story, I'm gonna be honest with
you, there's a little bit ofa oh sure, whatever you say,

(38:30):
Larry, And you would have thoughtthat coffee would have been all over his
shirt. Well, here's a questionfor you. The plane doing a barrel
roll and the coffee staying in thecup. Would that be an example of
centripetal or centrifugal force keeping the coffeein the cup? I'm gonna say centralfugal

(38:52):
because I've never heard of that otherone. All right, so you're gonna
go with centrifugal. Yeah, okay, Well I pose that question on Twitter
and raw Shiates Engines responded with agraphic showing the difference between centripotal and centrifugal
force. Raw Shates Engines. That'sa pretty big deal. Oh yeah,

(39:15):
they knew what they're talking about.Well, then centripodal whatever it is.
Well then Derek Newsom at Derek dotSpace answered with this reply. Centrifugal is
the force quote unquote that would bekeeping the coffee in the cup, though
it is technically a frame of referenceand not an actual force acting on an

(39:39):
object. Centripodal is the actual forcewhich causes something to spend ie the forces
the plane is using to roll slowdown. I'm taking notes here. I
was already following Derek on Twitter,but when I looked at his bio after
his response, he is a spaceflight ohto journalists for space Scout died Info

(40:04):
who has covered eighty four launches overthe course of his career, Steve,
have I ever mentioned the fact thatI'm also interested in space five? Have
I ever mentioned that to you oron the pod? Rick? No,
No, I don't remember you evermentioned space flight to me. Rick,
I think I've ever to get intothat sometimes listeners. Okay, this is

(40:29):
an example of Steve and I beingincredibly extraordinarily sarcastic. I'm glad you cleared
that up, Rick, by allmeans. Jered Crandall at Rusty Wings shared
a link to a YouTube video ofthe legendary aviator Bob Hoover with a cup
of coffee in an airplane doing abarrel roll with nothing spilling out and so

(40:55):
honestly and truly. When Larry toldthat story, I was like, man,
come on, telling to somebody whowill actually believe it. I did
not exactly believe that. No,no, but now we have to prove
from from very naugurable people. Whenyou say yes, then to up the
annie a little bit. Mister Hooverpours coffee into a cup while doing a

(41:19):
barrel roll and he spells nothing.Oh but wait, we're not done.
Doctor DeAndre Leslie Pelecki, who oncewrote a book entitled The Physics of NASCAR
The Signs behind the Speed that waspublished back in two thousand and nine.
She actually took the time to replyin a series of tweets. She tweeted,

(41:43):
turn left and it feels like you'rebeing pushed to the right. In
reality, your body is trying togo straight. You turn because the car
turns and pushes you to the left. But because we are the centers of
our own universes, it feels likea force pushes this right. We call
the force we feel centrifugal. Eventhough it's not a real force, it's

(42:07):
something we add to compensate for thefact that we are in an accelerating reference
frame. The danger of using centrifugalis that I guarantee someone will want to
show off and tell you there's nosuch thing. Technically, they're right,
but those kinds of people are whynormal people get irritated with signs. I

(42:28):
would say centrifugal and then qualify itby noting that you know it's not a
real force. So what kept thecoffee in Larry Pollard's cup was centrifugal force,
even though it's not a real force. Listeners, I would like to
inform you that this is indeed theSeeing Balk podcast and not physics one on

(42:52):
one with Rick Houston and Lord Steve. I'm not sure if all this has
made me feel much smarter or extraordinarilydumb. All I know for sure is
that I now have a headache.The closest I've ever come to study in
physics is watching The Big Bang Theory. I'm with you on that one.

(43:15):
Anyway, back to something that's alittle more in our wheel house. Then
came Charlotte October nineteen eighty three.Larry is Richard Petty's co crew chief.
He is tired of getting beat bycars that he thinks and or knows that
are running left side tires on theright. He says that he knows Tim

(43:37):
Richmond does it. He knows thatkell Yarbroad does it. He says that
Daryl Waltrip would do it in aheartbeat. Daryl was racing with Junior John
and do you really think you'd doit? What do you think quick?
Darryl Junior? Darryl Junior, Yeah, they might do it. Do I
think they wouldn't do it? Latein that race at Charlotte, people from

(44:00):
other teams are coming up to Larryand asking him for left side tires.
So he's thinking they're going to gothat route again, so he has his
tire guy, Randy Cox arup aset of left side tires to match what
they'd normally run on the rights.Last stop on the tires go and Richard
goes roaring, passed darref of thelead and he wins the race quote unquote

(44:25):
with wins in heavy italics and awakeor two. That's right. Richard rolls
down pit road after taking the checkeredflag and cool down lap and Larry's there
to take the wind to net down. Richard asked him what he had done
on the last stop and Larry tellshim he owns up to it, and
he tells him that they're left sidetires on the right, and Richard's like,

(44:49):
man, if we can't get bywith a couple of if he tires,
well, as you well know,Rick, the cynical media has never
trusted the driver when it comes tocheating. By that mean, they've always
asked the driver did you know thiswent on? And he always said no,
I just drive the car. Here'sa case where Reachard, the driver

(45:09):
didn't really know what went on.But he had to ask because he felt
a great big change and you justwanted to know what did happen? He
did not, genuinely, No,Larry Pauler made the call to use the
left side tires on the rock.That's correct, that was his call,

(45:30):
right. Richard did not know aboutit evidently during the race, but he
knew about it immediately afterwards. Correct. Then the motor, Sorry, Dale
Williams, if you're out there andlisten, then the engine turns out to
be big. And Larry insisted thathe did not know anything about the engine,

(45:52):
and he insisted that Richard didn't either. The person behind the large engine
was Richard's brother, Maurice called Cheapthe engine builder. He said to me,
and we talked after the race.He said to me that he was
tired. I've seen his brother loseraces now other teams today using oversize inches,

(46:15):
and he was going to decide todo it himself. And that's exactly
what happened. Richard met with Larryat the shop the next week and he
asked what he thought about actually gettingcredit for that win, and Larry told
Richard that he should turn down credit. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of
people told Richard that and Steve youhave said that you think the win should

(46:38):
have been taken away. To behonest with you, I'm kind of on
the fence about it. By theletter of the law, yes, absolutely
strike that win out of the windcolumn. And if Richard Petty is forever
listed with one hundred ninety nine wins, then that's just the way it is
now. Of course, two hundredis a much nicer round her figure,

(47:00):
much more iconic. But the factof the matter is the rule states you
can't run a big engine, andhe had one in that car. Sure.
How Ever, Daryl walterp and JuniorJohnson finished second that day and they
had already left. They had laidtracks out of the place, so NASCAR

(47:22):
can't inspect their engine, so there'sreally nothing to do except credit Richards.
Yeah, you make a very goodpoint there. If NASCAR cannot inspect the
second place car, which was gonefrom the track, they really cannot determine
once and for all that Richard cannotwin the race because they have nothing to

(47:47):
compare it to. And let metell you something, Junior and Daryl were
gone so fast from that track afterthe race it made your head spin weird
it's got a questions about that upin the press box and came to the
conclusion that Junior and Gerald wanted tobe either because Mary Jane was big two.

(48:08):
What other conclusion could we reach?And Steve, I guess that her
would be something to say, forwell, okay, you give the win
to the next highest fashion person whowas there to have their engine inspected.
But I don't know. That's oneof those darned if you do, darned
if you don't propositions exactly. Andit's kind of dumb to give the third

(48:29):
place guy the victory because his enginewas not illegal. I mean, you
opened up in the can of wormsthere. How can you give it the
third place guy when you let thesecond place guy escape print track and he's
not inspected at all. It justraises more questions. Here's a question I
don't know if we've actually asked itbefore in the times that we've discussed this

(48:52):
race. What does the fact thatthis is Richard Petty have to do with
him receiving credit for that victor?If he is Ron Bouchard, If they
find a big engine on his carafter he wins that race at Talladega,
did they take the win away fromhim. Well, i'll tell you him,
being Richard Petty, I think hada pretty good amount to do with

(49:15):
the final decision by NASCAR. You'retalking about the winningness and the most popular
driver in NASCAR's history. Now wewill point out I heard from many,
many Petty fans who said he shouldnot have taken credit for that victory.
There was a lot them that saidthat. But in NASCAR's mind, this

(49:37):
is a tougher call because of whohe was than it would be from almost
any other driver. You don't tugon Superman's cape. That's the one way
putting it. You don't spit nowin either. Of course, all this
created all kinds of habit in LevelCross, and there's a lot of talk
that crops up about Richard Leavin.It's Larry's job as crew chief to put

(50:00):
the window net up, But thenhe sees somebody else putting it up before
a race, and he knows thatthis guy is supposedly supposed to be joining
the team, So he doesn't knowwhat the situation is, and he takes
a detour right then and there,and he goes to talk to Johnny Hayes,
who had been after him all summerto join the team that he is

(50:20):
forming for Phil Parsons, and Larrygoes, I'm in well. Larry reached
a conclusion after watching that guy putup the window net that his days were
numbered. Larry works with Phil Parsonsand he loves Richard Jackson, Phil's car
owner, but the driving bug hasnot left him. And as I mentioned

(50:44):
last week, Larry comes from aracing family and a team owner by the
name of Bill Anderson gets in touchwith Larry. Bill wants to start a
Winston Cup team and he asked Larryto come up with some numbers on what
it would cost to start a WinstonCup team, and Larry gets an idea.
He has somebody come up with artworkon what a Bush Series car would

(51:06):
look like in Bill's color. Heputs some Bush Series numbers together and he
says, let's get our feet wetrunning the Bush Series first and then figure
out what we should do from thereand go by the way. I'll drive
it for nothing. That is aman still bit by the driving bug,

(51:28):
that is for sure. But astime improved. Later on, Rick he
was not the only one. KerkKilmer nine, as you will know,
was a famous Hall of Fame crewchief, and he got the racing bug
and left rishus You crazing to goracing, Hey, race fans. John

(51:52):
Dodson here from NASCAR Technical Institute.NASCAR Tech is opening and rolling with classes
starting every three to six weeks.In our forty eight week Automotive Technology program,
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(52:15):
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technicians. Some graduates who take NASCARspecific electives also may have job opportunities in
racing related industries. NASCAR Tech isan educational institution and cannot guarantee employment or
salary. This segment is brought toour listeners. By Las Vegas Motor Speedway

(53:07):
America's Racing show Place June second,nineteen eighty three issue of Grand National Scene.
Steve, I gotta be honest withyou. I had a little bit
of trouble figuring out what issue togo with for this week, because there
are two races that stood out thatwe could have went through. I knew
that we had already been through theissue featuring coverage of Richard Petty's infamous Charlotte

(53:30):
win in the fall of nineteen eightythree. I knew that we had already
been through that issue, but Idid not realize how early it was in
our reign of terror. I partydid go back. That was all the
way back in episode twelve. Okayyears then I was gonna go with the

(53:51):
issue covering Richard and Larry's Talladega winthat we discussed earlier in this episode.
But we dissected that one in ourfirst episode of twenty twenty one, Episode
one twenty six, when we talkedto Phil Parsons about his wreck in that
event. Wow, man, wehave covered the ground. Rank as for
sure. Do not work about thefact that we've already discussed a handful of

(54:15):
issues and have to go looking forothers. Take a wild guess of how
many issues of Grand National, WinstonCup and NASCAR Scene were published during its
thirty two year run from nineteen seventyseven to two thousand and nine. Take
a wild guess. Fourteen hundred ninetytwo. All right, a hole,

(54:42):
how did you? How did youknow that? I always remember Christopher Columbus
and I tie that, and we'veseen man. I hid that in the
notes. I thought, no,now you did not know that. You
did not know that off the topof your head. I was gonna say
fourteen hundred, But after you gaveme that Columbus crew, I just up

(55:06):
the annual a little bit. Rick, Okay, all right, so yes,
you would be correct. It wasone thousand, four hundred and ninety
two, as best I can figureout, because I have Steve, I
have scanned every cover myself, andso I went through that file, and

(55:28):
yes, one thousand, four hundredninety two, And that is quite the
number. I tell you. Well, this is episode two twenty, so
we've got a long way to gobefore we get through every issue of seeing
Are you in? Rick? I'malways in, especially for you. You

(55:49):
do believe that, don't you,okay, it's getting deep. It's getting
deep. So this week I didgo with the issue that covered Richard's second
place. Is in the nineteen eightythree edition of the World six hundred.
It's getting pretty late in that race, and Richard Petty and Neil Bonnet,
they are running in third and fourthplace, respectively, but they're watching Bobby

(56:13):
Allison and Bill Elliott kind of fadingoff end of the distance after they go
after each other for the league.Lap three forty three or four hundred,
Sterling st e r L I nSterling with no G at the end,
which is the way he wanted hisbell at the time. At the time

(56:34):
it was his mother you the fat. It came back, He's end.
I need him Sterling with the G. You print that, and so we
did. I knew that, andso I could not give you a hard
time about a miss print. That'swhy I had to speak first. Whatever
the case might have been at thattime, it was Sterling without a G.

(56:55):
Marlon blows a tire and turn fourSlick Johnson is collected, but so
or Bobby Allison and Bill Elliott.The green flag comes back out on lap
three forty seven and the lap later, Neil gets by Richard and he leads
the rest of the way. Neilsaid Richard was closing in. Every time

(57:15):
I looked in my rear view mirror, I saw his red and blue car
back there, and I knew hemeant business. Richard Petty never gives up.
So I had to drive my carabout one hundred and fifty feet further
into the turns than I wanted.In the second turn, I actually had
to bounce off the wall a coupleof times just to make it through.
If I hadn't done that, Iwould have finished second and not be talking

(57:39):
to you right now. And hewas right about Richard Petty never give been
up when he had a chance fora victory. But then again, not
to single out Richard is the ownone like that. There are a lot
of drivery who are I bet?This was Neil's second win in a row
in the world six hundred, andit was the first Winston Cup victor ever

(58:00):
for Raymark Enterprises owners Butch Mock andBarbara Hilly, and at the time Warner
Hodgdon was also a co owner ofthat operation. I've forgotten that Rick.
I didn't know there's a first winfor butchering bab forgot that. Here is
one of the craziest nuggets of informationabout our winning race car that we have
ever discussed on the same Bought podcast. Buddy Parrott was Joe Rutman's crew chief

(58:24):
at the time, and he andthe rest of that team were pushing Joe's
car out onto the starting grid beforethe race, and they passed Neil's car,
which was under a car cover alreadyin place, and they hear this
very sharp ping come out from underthe hood of Neil's car. They look
underneath and they found a valve coverretainer washer on the ground. A bolt

(58:50):
had sheered off on the valve coverwhich allowed the washer to fall, and
had that gone unnoticed, Neil atbest would have leaked some all and at
worst blew the engine. Now doyou think Buddy had told Butch and Bob
that this had happened to the cardand they need to pick it. Is
that what happened. That's exactly whathappened. Buddy went and told the guys

(59:15):
on Neil's crew, and they foundthe problem and fixed it, and off
he goes and wins the race.Not every crew chief would have done that
for another team. I can assureyou that, but let's just show you
that a lot of times there isfraternal cooperation in Nashgar among the teams.

(59:37):
How cool a show of sportsmanship.That was a cool little nugget to find
in this issue. Absolutely, Asyou can well understand, Bill Elliott was
not the happiest of drivers after theaccident with Bobby, and again at this
point he has steel never won aWinston Cup event. Bill said in this

(59:59):
issue, I just can't believe ithappened. I came up on the wreck
and had no place to go,no place at all. The way I
had been racing with Bobby, Idon't know if I even could have taken
him. I think we were aboutall even right now. I'm down.
I'm trying not to be, butit's hard. We've gotten to the point

(01:00:20):
where I thought it was between usand Allison. I try not to have
feelings anymore. At times. We'vebeen so close, but nothing's gone our
way. Maybe our time will come. One thing, I do know,
we've been running close enough to win. If we can just get through the
race one time, we will.Boy, it's kind of interesting to hear

(01:00:42):
Bill talk like that, given whathappened in the future. Maybe his time
will come, oh Rick, asyou know two years after that, if
not before, his time had comemany many, many times. Dal Earnhardt
won the Budweiser Late My Sportsman what'snow the NASCAR Exfanity race. That's one

(01:01:04):
thing. But Bosco Lowe was nothappy with the number of Winston Cup drivers
who were in that race. Boscosaid in this issue, I finished twelve,
but that's about six th. Really, the Winston Cup drivers have million
dollars sponsors. We had five hundreddollars sponsors. They won't let us run
limited sportsman. Why do they letthe Grand National drivers run late models.

(01:01:30):
Answer to that, from what I'veheard all these years is butts in the
seats. It's exactly right. WhatBosco probably knew but didn't say at the
time. It was the promoters thatwanted the Winston Cup guys to be in
the Bush Series race because they hadthe names, they had the reputations.

(01:01:50):
They had to start them, andthey wanted big names in that Push Series
race back then. Now that's changeddramatically, of course, but that's the
way it was back then. Theyhad to sell tickets and they started with
the only wait they failed to sellthem deal. Earnhardt replied to all this,
I understand some of those other guysare unhappy about us Grand National drivers

(01:02:13):
running with them. They'll have toremember, I cut my eye teeth on
this circuit. That's how I gotstarted. We don't mind them running the
Grand Nationals with us. Why shouldthey worry about us? We springs up
another point. A lot of Bushserious drivers said they didn't mind the whining
and cup drivers being in their racesbecause they wanted to challenge and try to

(01:02:36):
beat the best, and those guyswere the best at the time. There's
a feature in this issue about ErnieMoore, who was born in nineteen sixteen
and who had worked for NASCAR sincenineteen forty nine. His main claim to
fame earlier in his career was asthe flagman. Ernie said it was mass

(01:02:59):
confusions. Sometimes I'd use a counterin my hand to keep track of the
laps. If something happened there wassomeone sitting behind me in the stands and
I'd have to turn around to seehow many laps there were left in the
race. They'd hold up their fingersto let me know. Now we have
talked about scoring issues many times hereon the show, and I wonder if

(01:03:21):
a flagman using a handheld lap counterever had anything to do with it.
Well, I can tell you weknew that about Ernie, that story about
him having to count fingers and thingsthat that's sort so a lot of time
when a few of us would approachErnie, one of us that hold up
three fingers, the other two andmaybe a third guy five, just to

(01:03:45):
see what kind of reaction. Well, I can't tell you this. More
times than one, Ernie flashed itback with one finger and you can figure
out which one it is. Hey, I'm dk Hey, this is Michael

(01:04:08):
Fatmatt McSwain. Hey, this isthe original Misteric Slight with Jimmy Spencer.
Hello, this is Pete Right,I'm Kenny Wallace, and you're listening to
the Scene Vault podcast. Hello,Seen Vault fans. This is Brian from

(01:04:29):
Speedway Screens. And if you're enoughof a NASCAR historian to be listening to
this podcast, there's a good chancea piece of the past you've been on
the hunt for is in my shop. I'm constantly on the hunt for apparel
and collectibles from all genres and erasof motorsports. So whether it be cup
cars, dirt modifieds, dragsters,or monster trucks, I've probably got something
for you. Check out my inventoryat Speedway TSJ dot etc. Dot com

(01:04:53):
and be sure to follow me onInstagram and Twitter at Speedway screens for the
newest items as soon as they dropin for a peek at what I keep
my own collection. As a specialthank you to listeners of this show,
just enter scene at checkout for tenpercent off Speedway TSJ dot etc. Dot
com. That's Speedway, TSJ dotetc. Dot com. This podcast has

(01:05:21):
been brought to our listeners by LasVegas Motor Speedway, America's racing showplace.
Now Steve, we don't ordinarily talkabout a lot of current NASCAR news,
but with Ross chastained and his haulon the wall yesterday at Martinsville, I
don't know how we put I mentionedit here on the show. Well,

(01:05:44):
I tell you, Rick, Ihave seen a lot of races over the
years, and I've seen a lotof really super moved but I've never seen
the beat of what Ross Chastein didat Martinsall he made a Dasprasion run to
make the phone for or at Phoenixhe started in the third turn, put
that carpets up against the wall,never let up, drove it right against

(01:06:08):
the wall through the fourth turn andinto the checkered flag, just one place
ahead of Denny Hamlet put him inthe fourth place for the race, and
that got him into the championship.Steve, I'm gonna tell you if he
wins the championship next week, Idon't know what you're gonna say. That
move goes down in NASCAR history,right next to the passing the grass or

(01:06:33):
you name the move. That's right, You're exactly right. It will be
one of the most memorable championships NASCARhas ever ever had. Truly remarkable.
However, rick debate has already started. Some competitors suggested that driving like that,
hugging the wall, is dangerous andshouldn't be allowed by NASCAR. I

(01:06:58):
think NASCAR is gonna that in thissituation. However, I'm gonna say this,
this is the kind of desperation,give it all you got type of
racing that NASCAR wants in the playoffs. Why would they try to nengate it.
I'm not sure this is going tobe a very easy decision with them.

(01:07:19):
I think it's absolutely an easy decision. To anybody who says that that
kind of move should be outlawed orwhatever, shut up, you're right,
you're right. Let them race andyou keep the NASCAR rule book out of
it. But that's what NASCAR wants, to be honest with you, That's

(01:07:41):
why I say I think they're goingto face something of a hard decision when
they get besieged by other competitors suggestingthis kind of move can't be allowed.
I don't know Rick, It's gonnabe somewhat difficult for him, I do
believe, but I agree with youwholeheartedly. This is what the fans love.
I don't know how you can outlawsomething that has created the kind of

(01:08:03):
buzz sure that this hasn't because you'vegot drivers from F one tweeting about it.
You've heard the reaction of the crowdat Martinsville when Ross was interviewed on
Pitt Road. Yeah, it wasabsolutely a popular move. Now, the
closest thing that I could possibly comparewhat Ross did too is the Darlington Stripe,

(01:08:30):
where drivers would get as close tothe wall coming out of what's now
turned two and onto the back stretch, get as close as they possibly could
to that wall, and if therewas a scrape down the right side of
their car, then so be it. Now. The thing about that is,
I don't know that they intentionally scrapedthe wall. At Darlington, Ross
Chastain shifted that bad boy into fifthgear, hammered the gas at a point

(01:08:55):
where most mere mortals are getting onthe brakes, and best of all,
he everybody by complete surprise, andhe ran the fastest single lapp of that
race. It was faster than thequalifying speed. How about that? And
you're right about that Darlington stripe Andthe answer to your question is yeah,

(01:09:15):
they did that intentionally to line themselvesup properly for the next turn. That's
what they did. Nobody complained aboutthat the rule book. Throw the yellow
line out at Daytona and Talladega.Throw that out of the rule book.
And I'm gonna go way out ona limb here, and I'm gonna say

(01:09:36):
that what Ty Gibbs did to winthe Exfinity race Saturday is fair game.
You won't have an entire NASCAR fanbase agreeing with you on that one,
Rick, but I'm in times.We ever heard that in short track racing,
the best way to get a guyout of your way is to push

(01:09:57):
him out of your way. We'veheard the words bump and run many,
many, many times now. Sometimesa bump can be a little bit stronger
than it should be. I'll grantyou that, But isn't that what this
is all about? Well, here'sthe thing. If he does that over
and over and over and over andover again, as it seems like he's

(01:10:20):
done, and if other drivers don'tpolice it themselves by giving him a shot
or two or ten or twelve,didn't have at it. You use the
bumper to win a race. Andyou know who agree with you on that?
Dale Earnhard. How many times havewe seen him during his career through

(01:10:41):
that very same thing or something veryclose to it, and he never never
told the other drivers don't do thatto me. He gave it out and
he was willing to take it.That's what it was all about. He
wasn't willing to take it that much, or he was just what he can
understand it. He could understand it. I heard him say that, I

(01:11:03):
can understand that they want to tryto do that to me, but I'm
not necessarily on NASCAR needs a villain, and ty seems to be settling into
that role very well. He mightinherit a black hat from Kyle Bush.
The only line in the sand thatI would ever draw when it comes to

(01:11:27):
what happens behind the wheel for thedrivers, the only line that I would
draw would be cases of outright heatof the moment pay back. Carl Edwards
tried to kill Brad Keselowski not oncebut twice, and then there was Bubba
Wallace. So yeah, sit themdown where it is so egregious that,

(01:11:48):
yeah, you can't cross that line, but basically anything else, go for
it. Rick. I think it'llmake a very strong point. I think
NASCAR to a great degree agrees withyou, which is why they might face
something of a difficult decision when itcomes to what Ross cash Stan did.

(01:12:09):
But I'm willing to bed they're notgoing to change that thing. Do what
you gotta do if you can getaway with it with your car and your
hindin in tight now. The otherpiece of current news that I wanted to
mention, Keith Rowden has been ahuge supporter of the podcast in general,

(01:12:30):
and in particular the whole scene digitizationand online archive project that we won't mention
here. Twitch Twitch, Mumble,mumble. Keith was in the news this
week. He is moving over toRichard Children's Racing from Hendrick Motorsports to be
Austin Dillon's crew chief next season.So Keith, congratulations, my friend,

(01:12:55):
right, keep our friend and goodluck just putting on my racing junk in
it right. You've been around thisa long time because you were back in
the eighties. Weren't yesterday I started. Um, I covered my first I
covered my first race in ninety one, so I thought it was lade eighties

(01:13:16):
and yeah, coming on to ninetyone. So