Episode 226 -- David Ifft, John Dodson and Pete Wright ... MASTER Storytellers, Part Two

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hello. My name is Rick Houstonand welcome to the Scene Bought Podcast,
your source for all things NASCAR history, presented by Las Vegas Motor Speedway,
America's racing show place. Because Iknew I made it when I got a
twenty five cent hour race and hetold me, don't tell nobody out there,
and I said, hell no,I'm ashamed of it. As you

(00:25):
are, jump over the wall,bent down with the jack split first thing.
Sure, and I'm still jacking.And I was in the buff.
Barry said, left side and tiresat Darlington the Southern five hundred, and
I'm only one that went to theright or the card. So we're taking
looks off by luck. Well,I'm I the only one over here the

(00:48):
day NASCAR and all of us associatedit. Anyway, when NASCAR forget it's
past, that's today, we don'thave any future. Hello everyone, I'm
Steve Wade and my name is RickHouston, and welcome to the Steam Bought
Podcast, presented by Las Vegas MotorSpeedway, America's racing show place in the

(01:14):
track that truly cares about NASCAR history. Now, I got to start off
this week by asking Steve a veryimportant question have you recovered from signing autographs
at stocks for Tacia? How's yourarm? Rick? I want to tell
you one thing. I thought Iwas gonna have to go to the learn's
room. You talk about writer's cramp. Holy smokes, I have never in

(01:37):
my life experienced anything like that.Now, that was absolutely fantastic. We
got there about five fifteen that afternoon. There were already people lined up,
that's right. And the doors didn'topen until six thirty. And according to
what a lot of people says,they came through the door, came through
the line to talk. They hadbeen there since three three thirty, that's

(01:59):
right. Were a couple who saidthey got there about five fifteen, thinking
that would be all right. Well, by the time they got to us
same line, it was close tonine o'clock. Yes, we signed for
a solid three hours, and judgingoff the bundle of postcards I had on
hand, I'm guessing I'm guessing thatwe signed for maybe three or four hundred

(02:22):
people. I think you're exactly right, Rick, and I do remember them
telling us that we should be thereuntil oh, eight thirty. Well a
thirty showed up, but we sawthat line still going out the door and
you turned me and said, well, I don't think at thirty is gonna
cut it. Well, you saidto me before the event started, you
said, you know, if itgets slow about eight o'clock, I think

(02:44):
I may cut out of here.That's right, you jinxed it, called
me a dreamer, but I hadno idea it would take that long.
And if everybody who received one ofour I don't want to call it a
hero. If everybody who received oneof our postcards, let's call it that

(03:04):
a postcard, if they actually scanthe QR code on the bike and listen
to the show, well you're goingto be in business, baby. Oh
yeah, all right, I thinkit's definitely going to grow up. They
do that now. Of course,there were those you could tell they were
there just to see the big namesfurther down the line, much further.
We'd sign a card, give itto them, and they'd keep right on

(03:27):
going. But what really meant alot to me or the people who stopped
to tell us that they actually listenedto the podcast and really enjoy it.
And Steve, it continually amazes methat somebody is out there and they're listening
to us. That's right, theyreally are. And I tell you what,
Richie, you do would call thatwe signed some other things other than

(03:49):
the owned postcard. We sign sixteenSteve Wade trading cards. And was it
four or six Rick Houston books?Well, according to the tally that I
kept, you signed twenty four twentyfour Steve Wade Trading cards. Great.

(04:13):
Great, And then you also signedsome candid photos where people had had their
photos taken with you, so yousigned a bunch of those. But also
I won for the number of booksthat were signed this year. Now,
I did not keep track of thenumber of books that I signed, but
I do know it was at leastI want to say six or seven.

(04:36):
I think you're exactly right. Thebooks signed where let's see your book on
the bus series called Second to None, Yes, and then your book on
NASCAR's Greatest Race nineteen ninety two Hoodsfive hundred right and del versus Daytona.
There you go. But Steve,that event is such a tradition in the

(04:58):
morris Will area. It does alot of good. It provides toys for
kids who might not otherwise be ableto enjoy Christmas, so that is a
big deal. But also tomorrow,and I'm looking so forward to this.
We are recording this on Sunday,and tomorrow morning, I'm headed up to
Stuart, Virginia or Morgan Shepherd's Christmasin the Hills trip. You do that

(05:19):
every year, Rick, That's reallygood work on your part. I have
done that every year since nineteen ninetyfour, with the exception of two years.
And Morgan and his wife, Cindy, they will never know what it
means to me personally to have beenable to do that. Even when I
was out of the sport and Ihad no connection to the sport whatsoever,

(05:41):
they still cared enough about me personallyto call and invite me along. It's
a tradition for you now, Rick, and I know it's one you really
enjoy. And what service you andMorgan give to those people up there and
Stewart. And finally, I can'twait for this. Tony Liberatti, my
buddy Rambo. Oh, he hasinvited me to a Petty Enterprises reunion and

(06:10):
Level Cross tomorrow night. Oh howabout that? Holy cow, that's gonna
be great. I cannot wait.Now. I don't know exactly how I
feel about being Rambo's plus one.I don't know about that, but honestly,
I did text Kyle and I said, is it okay if I come,
Because I'm not gonna come as areporter. I'm just gonna come and

(06:32):
enjoy the moment. So I justwant to make sure that it was cool
with Kyle. And of course hetexted me right back and he said,
come, oh man, just comeon, You'll have big tim We'll speaking
of Richard Petty, he is goingto be part of a roundtable discussion this
Wednesday night at the annual Coekee DriverDevelopment Program Awards banquet. Kyle's going to

(06:56):
be with him as long as severalother crew chiefs and driver moderated by doctor
Jerry Pudge. And I am goingto be there, are you really?
Absolutely? I wouldn't miss it foran old friend. Allan Well, Steve,
I don't know about you, man, But when it comes to the
interview this week and the one thatwe shared last week, the installment of
the epic Storytellers session that we hadwith John Dotson and David f and Pete

(07:20):
right, we're closing out the yearon a definite high note. We're not
just cruising into the off season,We're rocketing into the offseason. We are
doing our best to still bring itwith the content and with this interview,
I think we hit the nail onthe head. Well, I tell you

(07:41):
what, Judging from the opinion ofmany of our listeners after the first half
of this interview, we are definitelyon the right track. It's a great
stuff. This week it is theconclusion to our conversation with John and Pete
and David, and they kept righton telling stories with a full head of
steam, just like it did lastweek. They remember they're welcome to NASCAR

(08:03):
and most embarrassing moments life on theroad away from family, and so much
more. And just like last week, we are going to forego the issue
of the Week segment because honestly,this conversation stands on its own. Man
said, have added boys, andthat's exactly what they did. Listeners,
if you possibly can, please considersupporting this podcast. It's not possible without

(08:28):
that kind of support. If youpossibly can support us on a monthly basis
at Patreon dot com, slash theSame Bought Podcast, or if you would
prefer to do a one time showa support, you can do that via
PayPal dot me slash the Same BoughtPodcast or Venmo dot com slash the Same
Vought podcast And just as a reminder, this show is not affiliated with American

(08:54):
City Business Journals, owner of thesame brand. What was the moment that
you felt like you had arrived inthe sport where you went, okay,
so maybe I belong here after all? Who met anyone? Just general?

(09:18):
Just general? Um me, youknow, being here at NASCAR Tech,
we put a lot of young guysand girls on the race teams and they're
impatient. They want it now.And I was the same way. I
wanted to change tires, you know, and and be on pit road and
all that. But I tell thesekids, I'd say, look, you're
in your twenties. You have notexperienced enough to lead anybody or be the

(09:43):
boss of anybody. And I said, you got to get through your twenties.
So I give them the ears open, mouse shut speech. And that's
exactly what the race teams want,right They want to body ears open,
mouse shut. And a guy thatreally comes and learned works. So I'd
been building race cars full time fromtwenty two years old to twenty eight years
old, and we were building aspoiler for the chevallets for gem and NASCAR

(10:07):
asked me to build it on andhad a dick lead on the table and
we built built a spoiler, andthey had Rick Hendrick and all these guys
come over and look at it.Well, I built it. And I'm
just standing right over here and Barryand Rick Hendrick, and you know,
I forget all the big dogs thatwas standing there, and they're like,
what do you think? You know? And Rick Hendrick and none of them
knew you built it? No,well, Rick did they knew I built

(10:30):
it because I was bolting it onand sitting it right and I said it
and I showed him everything and Istood back and they said, what do
y'all think? And they looked andRick Hendrick looked at me. I was
twenty eight, and he said whatdo you think? John? First,
I didn't even know he knew myname, but Barry had called me John
or something. And I actually lookedbackwards. I'm like, you know,
and I realized that Rick Hendrick wastalking to me, and he's like,

(10:52):
you built this. You're a seasonedguy, you know. And that's when
I knew. Right then, Ithought, Okay, I'm twenty eight and
somebody's asked my opinion on a racecar. Now, Because Barry would just
tell me, you shut up word, you know, And that's that's kind
of then. You know, ittakes it takes some time. It takes
some time and patience. But that'swhen I felt it for me. It
was I was at Daytona. Idon't go what how old I was.

(11:15):
I was young, and um Iwalked by the NASCAR truck and that you
know how they used to put littleschedules up on that peg board at the
back. I was looking at it, and Billy Francis standing walks up to
the back of the truck from inside. He looks down at me and says,
Pete, how's it going. Thatwas it for me. Once they

(11:35):
knew your name, he's Billy FranceJr. And he knew me yep.
And that told me then I've donesomething they recognize. Yeah, they recognize
that. That's that's the feet ofname. That's kind of word that time.
I don't know where forget that.I mean, I think I grew
up footing a half at day Yep. Well, I worked for Bud Moore
almost five years and he didn't knowmy name for three years. He called

(11:58):
me, boy, come over here, So, yeah, you were doing
something right. He never knew moneyain't and anyway, he called me boy.
But I knew I made it whenI got a twenty five cent hour
race and he told me, don'ttell nobody out there, and I said,
hell no, I'm ashamed of itas you are. You remember you

(12:20):
remember when one Dale started uh hiringeverybody following that big money. That was
Terry. We're near the dream team, I mean five Muhamma and allies in
a ring. Yeah, they hadherb Nap left junior. We still beat
them. Yeah, we still beatthem too. And then Rick had the

(12:45):
all Star dream Team. It's justamazing that different aspects as we got older,
how these certain groups stayed together andwent to these places and we still
beat them. But you know you'retalking about that you made it? Do
you think you made it? Andeverything? I think that things just went
along so quick and fast. Ohyou're in your life in racing, you

(13:09):
know, all of a sudden yougot it. I was making three hundred
some dollars and Darryl call me becauseI worked with him five racing. We
got along real good. He said, come and be my crew chief down
there at Dieguard. They were inDaytona Beach then, and I was making
three hundred twenty five dollars a weekor something, and I'm going to seven
hundred dollars. It's hard to gohome and say to your wife, the

(13:31):
kids are in school, we're moving. You know. It's like Barry,
you know, when I hired Berryaway from the Petties. You know,
I paid Berry good. That's whythey came for that. They come back
when you got older, you know, and you had kids in school and
wife and stuff, and anybody couldsay this, your wife raised them kids,

(13:52):
and it wasn't my We were goodproviders. We weren't good fathers because
we were never there and the wivesraised the kids and everything. And they're
really the ones that need all thecredit because we was out having a good
time at our profession. And thatprobably if everybody took a divorce rate in
racing, that's it would be thehighest there. That's exactly why I never

(14:16):
took a crew chief job. Imean, and Felix talked about crew chief
job and Pimperton left and and I'dseen what Barry had sacrifice, and I
mean a lot, and I thoughtI don't want to be that. That's
another reason I didn't like doing it. We both got off the road,
you know, so I could helpraise my daughter's me there and be a

(14:37):
dad. And that's the worst thingI didn't do, was to get off
the road and spend time with myson. Yeah, and I regret that
to this day. But I wasdoing something that I could take care of
them, you know, making themoney care because I remember when it was
at Junior's and house a Bush wantedto Junior to give me and Brewer and
Mike Hill contracts so we wouldn't leave, and uh, Junior had Prince South

(15:03):
these big contracts, comes back thereand give them to us. And we're
supposed to it for three years.We're supposed to list what kind of money
we wanted to make, how muchraise we wanted per year. And with
me and Mike Hill, we're sittingthere looking at mine, We're looking at
his his, you know. Isaid, how do you want to put
down that first time we come upwith some God off them gonna being own

(15:26):
road down? He said that theywant to give us some fifteen percent raised
next year. I said, howmuch is that? He said, I
don't know, just put down this. We put down this third year of
rich Sun. But I said,all right, I signed mine. He
signed here. I took put minetoolbach, they took put his and a
little place he had there in hislittle works. Are you? I found

(15:50):
my contract about a week ago.I was like, upstairs, got it?
We said, all right, i'mI walked up to Junior. I
said, Junior, do you wan'tneed to stay here and work? Well?
I don't really want you lead thatyou ever give me a contract?
I said, do you want meto stay and work? Yeah? I
like pointy team, I said,I ain't gonna. I don't mean no

(16:11):
damn contract that that back your contractswhere nobody knew that. I remember m
c Anderson, Harry Milling. Wehad the Milling to Harry Millan. I
can remember him, Benny, me, mc and Harry Millan setting in a
motel room, drinking beers and themshaking hands on a year contract deal.

(16:32):
Harry Millan sponsored them. Nobody,no nothing, and Harry asked, well,
how do you want Patty says,well, whatever, every month,
every three months, whatever. Youknow it was a set amount for the
whole year. And he said,you divide it up how you want to
pay me? You want to payme every month, every three months,
whatever? And that's ship and shookhands on it. And it was like

(16:53):
a two or three million dollars dealback then. And that's how things went.
And your word was you know,yeah you I mean if you if
your word wasn't worth nothing, youdidn't get hard to start with. They
feel what happened on teams. Youwhen a crew chief got to let go
because the driver they wasn't going tofire. No, they let a crewchief
go. Well, then he's comingin and he's bringing all his guys,

(17:15):
so you could count on if yourcrew chief got gone and used with him,
it wasn't long. You better bebetter. But usually a crewchief just
took took their guys when I leftone team and you know, but you
know every time a crew chief andnew crew chief come in and one before
him was stupid as hell and hehad to throw everything away to that crew
chief had three million dollars, Yeah, to change everything. He might pay

(17:41):
him driver after all, yeah,yeah, or who was But it was
hard to It was hard to keepas it went on and on. It
was hard to keep secrets because oneguy would leave the team and he knew
what you were everybody was doing anda lot of times as them, team
them crew chiefs, and people hiredaway. I hired Barry because money done

(18:06):
it, you know what I mean. And Barry is probably making like I
was at Bud Moore's. I madefour dollars in sixty cents an hour when
I worked from my racing engine roomfour sixty yeah, and you were it's
time fifty hours a week. Yeah, and you punched the time clocking on
and I started going in the hole. And that's why I had to quit
one championship in nineteen eighty four.I'm making two twenty five. Got a
five hundred dollars raids, got offthe airplane coming back from New York banquet,

(18:32):
went the best buying ball to VCRfor five hundred thirty nine dollars,
and that was a raid. Blewmy bonus, blew everything right, Richard.
They won the championship up there,and Richard only had so many seats
he could take, and he said, who I know, I can't take
everybody, but I give everybody athousand and two thousand dollars that don't want

(18:56):
to go. Cecil Gordon said,cut the check money. I remember when
I left Smoking Joe, they putCecil screw chief up there taking my place,
and he come up with me atthe track one day and I met
Darrell's and uh, he says,how in the world did you do it?

(19:21):
He says, I said, whatare you talking about, Sally?
I've been there three full weeks andI still ain't you who I worked for.
All right, so here's one.What is your most embarrassing moment in
the sport? Oh? I gotthat's easy for me, Barry said,

(19:41):
left side and tires at Darlington Southernfive hundred. I'm only one that went
to the right side of the carand started taking lug nuts off, started
pulling lug nuts off. I like, well, am I the only one
over. We're here on a greenflag stop two on green flax of everybody
in the stands was watching. Youknow it up, Tim lung nuts come
back around and believe it or not, I caught up with Jimmy maykof where

(20:03):
we went. Because that's a hardfast as I ever changed the tire of
my life. Now, I'd rustyhave to say about that. Uh,
it was with Tim Richmond. Itwas for Richmond. I just joke joked
around with me and said, youknow, said uh, And then the
other embarrassing piece was when we wonthe championship. The last race is when
my tire cut loose left for atire came loose, and we thought.

(20:23):
I thought I lost this championship.But a lot of people don't know that
Barry made me change pit guns thatmorning. I'd used the same pit gun
the whole season. He said,your gun don't sound right. I said
it's fine, and he made mechange guns. And I didn't know how
hard to tighten that wheel. Andit took a whole hundred of some laps
to come loose before it did.But I still thought I'd cost us championship.
But yeah, that that that Southernfive hundred. That was I never

(20:48):
did that again. I guess forme, it's working at Junior's. Of
course, that's when most of everythinghappened to me in my life when I
worked there. But we at Talladegaand I went to chains Over to uh
race day stuff, which was whitepants and all this. You know.
I grabbed a pair of pants andthey weren't mine. Somehow mine didn't get

(21:10):
back from the cleaners. Junior givingme a pair of hiss, tell me
where his I put him on theway Junior wore his pants and the way
I wore my pants a little bitdiffer. So I put them on and
they are tight. Oh they tightening. I can't even put my radio in
my back pocket. Jason tight welljump over the wall, bent down with

(21:33):
the jack split first thing, andI'm still jacking and I was in the
buff. Couldn't stop, couldn't stop. I'm glad, I'm glad. I
was down on pit roads around thecar and I can feel that arges man.
I jack up the other side fourtire stock. I get back over

(21:56):
his brewer. He's Mike Heels,Shorty Edwards, all just rolling on the
ground. Well here, Junior says, here we got to fix them.
He starts taping my rip together.And from then on, every time I've
been over to Jackie racecock and feelsomething back our pools. I didn't think
the debate back fixed everything. Andthe worst one I trying to get when

(22:22):
I got to the truck after raceand I had to tag them off.
Took three people to get them offfrom me. He doesn't take my butt
to my prinches and everything out inVaveline uniforms the same way. They were
so cheap we'd all split them atthe same time on one pit and everybody
tape up their crock. I guesson a trip to California when we went

(22:42):
to jail Mexico. Yeah, comingin there that race track the next two
a day later day. Yeah,y'all were in jail for three days,
two nights, two nights and threedays. Yeah, that sounds like a
vacation. We didn't. That soundslike vacation. It was three days,
two nins. Well, I've neverbeen to Mexico. After Barry said I'll

(23:03):
never leave this country again, thatwas the same enough for me. I
went on a cruise that was itdown to the but I never left us
with Japan. I went to Japan, you know ra and then it won
the last race. We got thereday late in that the old DK always
had on the back of his carwas the Tijuana boards or something. Yeah,

(23:25):
but next was pretty much he rosethough and stuff when you got into
the track. Yeah we we weYeah, we was at MCNA. Even
the dieguard team gain that. Andthen to win the race, yeah yeah,
to get just get out of jail, and we were scared to death.
Tell you the truth, we comein there, Barry, he told
me. He scared. You know, it took me. I was thirty

(23:48):
six, thirty four years old bankthen it. I always said, it
took me thirty four years to growup. And that's when I growed up,
right then, when they hauled usdown there and put us in that
jail. Because you never be heardfrom again. Yeah, And I asked,
you know, one's America, thenthe American Castle coming around here,
something that's I he might be hearto morrow. And fifty years ago,
almost almost forty years ago, itwas me Berry Eddie trap two can two

(24:15):
can? I'll tell you one onemorning, Catle the pro golfer, he
lost his card over that. Hewas supposed to be at Indian Wells playing
the Bob Hope Desert Classic. Andwe're sitting in Mexico in a jail.
We was at Daytona testing in January, and Tim Richmond in that punty I
was telling you about h Every daywe'd get to the track and you'd get

(24:38):
out on the Lincolns we rented LincolnContinentals and you'd run around the race track.
You'd run five or ten laps oneway, then everybody on the back
stretch and turn around and you runten laps other way, or it had
blow the engine up in a ina regular car because all the little bit
at one side. So one morningTim come in. He said, they
said, we don't know if thetracks dry or not. And he said,

(25:00):
uh, I'll go out and checkit. So he gets in the
car. He says, hop in. So I get in the car.
So I'm sitting in the car onthe floorboard. He said, we'll just
go out and see us. Youknow. We go out. We go
in the first corner. He getsdown and he runs. He saws on
the wheel, you know, andI'm sitting over in the floorboards, going
on the row bars. So that'sthe shady turn one and two, so

(25:22):
he knows how wet it is.We get on the back stretch. We
come off a two, and westart down the back stretch and he's he's
he's riding, you know. Helooks over at me, pulls his belts
down, puts it to the metaland never checks up. And I'm like,
oh, he ain't gonna live.You know, I'm sitting in the
floorboard holding He goes through one andtwo all around. He ain't letting up.

(25:47):
Red dogs is said John Boy y'all. Y'alls running one hundred and eighty
miles an hour, you know there'sclocking, and started clocking us. And
finally I scared to death. Isaid something smoking in the back. We
got smoke. We got smoke.He's like, oh, okay, you
don't want to mess car, justgrinning, pulled me in. I thought
I was gonna throw up. Gotout of that car and they said,
man, you run one hundred andeighty miles an hour, sitting in the

(26:08):
floor pan, holding on the bars. I've done that telling of Buddy Baker
at Talladega testa one time. That'llshow you how to respect to drive.
What were you thinking? Well,he said he had a vibration in the
car, and we changed dry schaff, changed gears, everything, and he
says, this thing it went away, But he said went out on pet
Row. He went one lamp.Come in. He coming in to tell

(26:29):
me. He said, this thingstill by. I said, there ain't
no way, but he said,get in here. We'll go down pet
Row and you'll feel it. Ijumped in the other side this isfere they
had side windows and everything. Ohyeah, no on no side windows nothing.
He took off and he man hewent and we went through three and
four. He's up against that wall. You get a great respect for drivers,

(26:51):
just you know what I mean.I got out of that car and
I said, I was shaking,yeah, you know, and I said,
how can they do that? Andthey're body their selves one car?
I think it would throw you,but it doesn't. It sets you and
then I can't move. Yeah,and you're holding on. But if we'd
have blown a tire or anything likethat, Richmond's over just a laughing,
you know. Yeah, they're laughingand he's over there grinning and I'm holding

(27:14):
launch shaking. But but you geta great respect for drivers. And it's
it's a thing that there's only avery few that can do it. Oh
you know. It's it's different thanpeople think, oh I want to be
a race car driver, you know, and and they want to be a
crew chief. For that, well, sacrifice live in motel rooms two hundred
and forty fifty days a year,and that's why your wife raises your kids

(27:36):
and stuff. The guys and thegarage think they could have been drivers.
Yeah, yeah, everybody thought theycould drive. Yeah. I was one
that didn't think. I didn't wantto try because I had too much of
a temper when I was growing up. My probably i'd wreck everybody. If
David you mentioned this a little whileago, but I believe that you were
talking about kel Yarbro and he couldn'ttell you if a car was loose or

(28:00):
tied or whatever. Would you ratherwork with a driver who knew the car
inside or out or somebody who didn'thave a clue about the car or what
was more dangerous? A driver whothought that they knew the car inside or
out, driver that thought they knewthe carriage. They I'd tell you there's

(28:22):
drivers out there. Rusty one ofthem. He could come, Darryl Waltrip
because they Mark Martin, they builttheir own cars, they raced their own
car. Rusty knew every front endset, and what do you got the
front end set at Daryl everything?You know what I mean? If he
went Rusty went down in and I'ddone Rusty's bush cars. He if he
went down in the turn and he'dgo through one turn, he get off

(28:45):
start coming in and Daryl was thesame way, and Benny. All of
them that knew their own cars,they built cars. They would say the
front end just don't fit it.Ain't set right, and he said,
well, it's just like it alwaysdid. But then you check it and
it'd be something. That driver didn'tcome in and say the brakes don't feel
right. He didn't just make itup. Something's wrong. And you had

(29:08):
to learn that about people. NowI've got lost races because drivers thought they
turned that novel on that brake thingand jack their selves all out of shape,
and we would be somewhere. I'mnot mentioning the driver's names, but
we'd be somewhere a little. Isaid, crank some right front to it.

(29:30):
But the week before we lost therace because he was cranking on that
brake, nob leaving it, andJeff Bodine beat us. He had it
so jacked out of shape because ourcar was better. And I think jelln
and you guys always were better onthe long run. But I always set
the cars up better for the longrun. Your deal was if the pit

(29:52):
you had to pit, and sixand the eight laps, that's when you
wanted that car to go away.If you had to pit and sixty eight
laps of fuel, that's when thatcar started getting LuSE where he couldn't drive
it, but you had it wasa happy medium that, you know,
and all these cautions now and allthese lucky dogs and drivers around, so
there was none of that. Youhad to race your way back to get
a lap back if you got alap down, and it was just a

(30:15):
whole different type of racing nowadays withthe cars, the one lug nuts and
everything. We probably couldn't even changea tire now if with the one lug
nuts, something about coming out ofretirement, I can't hit one luck Yeah
I could probably, you know,I wouldn't need actually, jun if I
run out there for one, youknow, I could do that you're talking
about justin that bright I remember theHaggans. We built a road course car.

(30:38):
Steve Mill talked him and Richie Bartstaught Bale mm And into putting dual
master cylinons home and I mean thisis in the early eighties, and so
we're going to Riverside with it,and we get over there and we got
dual mass Cyllinus. Well, duringthe race, Terry has cranked that thing

(31:03):
so much the little of just insidehad come out of the sweeps that moved
the underneath the day. Yeah,and just so happens of all days to
come a rain at Riverside. Itstarted raining. We won the race,
so we stopped next day on thebackside stretch and put they let us put

(31:23):
car covers on. Well, whenwe put the car cover on, Steve
Mill had grabbed all the tools hethought he would need and we put the
cover on. He crawled in thecar and covered sitting out there. Well,
he got a flash lighting on.He fixes it. Well, still
raining. How much long as we'regonna leave, Steve, I mean it

(31:52):
out plumb dark. Steve's them beenin there two or three hours and we
don't have radio. He didn't carea radio with him, so we didn't
know if he's still alive or dead. And me and Eddie, no,
it was me and Gary department overto take a car cover off, and
they said we could take it offand take the cow, but we had

(32:14):
to put it back one and peoplewere longly allowed to car and we should
okay, when we get done,it's gonna be three up. Well,
he Steve gets out and men,Gary, we've shaken, you know.
We tape up the cow and weshaken the cover and meanwhile Steve gets out

(32:36):
and he's crawling on his hands andknees, up to the next car where
couldn't nobody pay much attention to him. He pops up, he goes back
to the garage. Got it fixed. We got it fixed. But that
was I mean, we didn't lefthim in there two three hours. They
all said, you think he's allright. I think he's all right.

(32:57):
I told y'all we didn't need torun that crap on these cars. That
was Bill Elliott's first win. Itake that back eighty three. That was
his first win because we were leadingwith Tim and and Darrel and Tim spun
coming off a nine and give Billthe lead with just a few laps to
go yea three. Because I rememberhaving it go to the car when Tim
was on the backstretch we were leadingthe race, and he smoked cigarette and

(33:20):
a lot of people didn't know it, and he said, bring me a
cigarette, you know, And remembergoing over and taking him, taking him
a cigarette, and just me andhim. You know, they had they
got a picture piercing always he smoked. They had a cigarette. Like nobody
knew Tim smug. Nobody knew Timsmut, but they got a pictures.
The green come out and he's goingoff in the turn to Darlington. Cigarette

(33:43):
hanging out of his mouth and thenthrowed it out. That's like Karl ern
got wrecked up. He wrecked hisbush car up at Michigan and we were
NB. Two and uh no.Sooner than they had gotten him to this,
they were bringing him from his carto the infield care center and Dick
Trickles already setting in his car inthe cup garage. That's the last race

(34:07):
he ever raced. And because Iput the seat in that car for him
over in his shop earning and thatwhen the second hard hit he took at
Michigan. Yeah, when I putthe seat in that car, I put
some some padding up here. Yeah, and he come in the shop,
just me and him. He said, get that stuff off of there.
I said, Ernie, you needto leave that there. He said,
no, I need to put themahead of there, right where he hit

(34:27):
his head and the Latin last.But we had to put a cigarette lighter
in our caring about them head riskback years ago. They didn't lie him.
NASCAR didn't lie. We had BennyParson's and he never finished Bristol,
you remember, and wore him outover wore him out, yeah, his
neck, and they had a callerand they go in and that for some

(34:53):
reason they turned a wheel to meit headed go more. But you know,
Barry come up with this thing bolton the seat, you remember that
Bristol, and they made us takeit out during practice because they said that's
you, he gonna can't see.Well, Benny liked it. So when
we was butting them in the carfor the race, Barry got in there,
hooking everything up and bolted it backon. And that's the first race

(35:15):
Benny ever finished at Bristol. Rememberwe had Bill Elliott in the pits of
relief drive for him. Bill wasnobody even knew who Bill Elliott was.
Then everybody started putting them on.From Brustols. We put the first leg
braces on a seat to go toall the way up the firewall. When
we wrecked. We wrecked at Charlottetire testing or practicing over there. Rusty

(35:39):
bent the seat down and then NeilBonnet wrecked and his leg went around the
shifter. So that's what came back. And we're the first ones to ever
put leg braces illumining pad him andall that stuff. And then now now
you're in a capsule, yeah,you know nowadays, And when we were
doing that they didn't want. Well, somebody sacrificed something for everything we did

(36:00):
on the race oil bonnet. Hetook some hardly career, but he was
a driver. Well, I'll tellyou when Ice was on the truck at
Daytona when he hit the wall,that car bottomed out. They've seen it
bottom retires too, yep. Andbut the car bottomed out. That's when
they come with these soft springs,and they were trying to get them.

(36:22):
Everybody was running in the front andeverything, and they lay down on the
ground and that car he went throughthree and four and it bottomed out because
I was clocking them really and itturned him up into the wall. That's
what killed I was looking at myselfwhen that happened. Yeah, everybody ran

(36:42):
them soft springs, want to getthis ball. They didn't remember about how
to stop him and everything that bumpstops, they didn't have none of that,
and they were just they would putthe springs in it. Well it
ain't bottomed out yet, let's putput some more. Take takes fifty pounds
more out of the front. AndI was a talent dagon. You know
how NASCAR trucks parked. Heers comeoff four. Well, that's when everybody
started running on them buck stops.I mean, all kinds of signs stuck

(37:06):
off and that. So I'm standingup against the fence behind the NASCAR truck
and here goes the car down through, and it's like this just so happening.
For at that time, Billy FrancisJunior walks up and by and by
the time he walked up and said, Pete's going, I said, going,
good? Bill, I said,what are you doing here? He

(37:28):
said, I just thought i'd checkin see everybody's doing, you know,
just carrying on a conversation. Allof a sudden, somebody went buy in
the qualifying mode and everything like that. Billy was looking at it. He
looked back at me. He says, what's wrong with that car? He
said, I believe spring fell outof it. I said, I don't
bet you. Well, no,it ain't got no springs. He said,

(37:51):
what I said, that that's suddenwe can do. Now we're against
bump stops, we're qualifying. Andby that time, Mike Hilton walked out
of the trailer, and of courseBilly seas and Billy goes, come here.
Mike walks up. At that time, nother car goes by and that

(38:13):
thing just you know, rocking thing. Billy looked at Mike and says,
what the hell have you done tomy race cards that say we You might
allow it now, but after this, I do not want to see my
race cars looking like boats going downstraight With Mark Martin one yeah, stops

(38:35):
and that's what I had to havea new kidney put in. There was
any feelings in your teeth, thedrivers, they were vibrated out when you
was done racing, he said.In his career, drive a race on
the bump stuff. He hurt hisback, his kidneys. He was messed
up good after that him over that. The one thing that I have noticed

(38:57):
about racers is that they know theraces that they won, and they're happy
about the races that they won,but they can almost tell you as much,
if not more, about races thatgot away. Oh yeah, what's
the race for you that got away? How many do you want to?

(39:17):
On the other hand, you wonsomething that you wasn't supposed to. My
worst one far as getting away fromus whistling. Kevin Harvey beat Mark Martin
to the start finish line at DayTone in the five hundred and they were
wrecking behind us, and Mark Martinas a spotter, was paying more attention

(39:38):
to the wreck happening than telling Markthat Kevin's coming, or you could even
try to block him or do anything. But Kevin Alrea had too good a
run. But nobody gonna block him. But they never would throw the caution.
They were wrecking behind him. Andas far as me, that's the
one that got away from me.Mine was DAYTONA five hundred with Kyle Petty

(40:02):
into Meliella car. You're not gonnapick on Bobby Helen again, are you?
No? Not, because Bobby didn'thave any breaks but reaped. But
that that's it. We worked onthat car and we went. They did
not have all the side templates onthat car. Most of that was with
body on that car, and RobinPemberton was a crew chief and I was
changings rears on the car, leftleft sides and we pitted and our gas

(40:29):
man um, he didn't give aone can in the car. So I
remember going to Felix and I said, if you want to win the day
twea five hundred. That was thefirst stop. I said, you're better
to get us a gas man.Our second stop or something like that and
put us way back in the field. And uh we had a half half
lap lead on Earnhardt at the time, and he was he was the one
to beat. And uh we weredoing everything we needed to do in that

(40:52):
race car too to win the daytwenty five hundred. And then when the
red came, Kyle was back there. You know, Bobby did didn't have
brakes, but Kyle thought he letoff the brakes and didn't looked like he
let off the brakes from Pitt Road. But that turk took one of my
Daytona five letters away anyway, hardone. I think the first race that

(41:12):
I run with m c anderson Racingwas at Daytona and with Buddy Baker in
the twenty seven car, and inthe qualifying race him and Bobby Allison wrecked
going for the lead off of goinginto one and two. They wrecked.
Who you were listening, No,I was burying all of the wrecked and

(41:32):
we had to put that car backtogether. You didn't have backup cars in
nor you fixed your car and thisthing was bent, tore up. We
cut bumpers, fixed it all.And there was a friend of mine come
down from Ohile you got this freehelp, and I'm there forget. He
goes, and my brother was there. He'd come every year and didn't go
back home. On one he comedown and this friend of mine told me

(41:55):
the bumper brackets all bent up,and I'm trying to work on something.
And this was a Thursday afternoon andit's going to take us all though till
Saturday. Fix his car. Hesays to me, what I do?
I said, go straighten it,and he went up to my brother.
My brother told me this later andhe says, your brother's just lost his

(42:17):
mind. He wants me to straightenthis here. But anyway, we fixed
that car, went out there.We led the race one hundred and sixty
seven laps, and with nineteen togo, Baker come on that radio and
said, this thing's vibrating. Wegot a lap on the field. We

(42:38):
had a lap on the field andI said, slow up, slow up.
He comes around the next lap.He's a tenth quicker and I you
know, and I said, slowup, slow up. We only got
seventeen fifteen laps to go, andit blowed up with four to go,
coming down through the trial. Fourto go and then we'll Benny. He
was leading the race down there inthe twenty seven car and cracked the head,

(43:00):
cracked the sooner head. Yeah,that was him, but I think
I was working for We had tocome in and put water in it.
Every that's the that's the race thatKale, I mean Kale and Donnie Allison
stopped and we had the first incar camera, first nine, first in
car can. That was the firstrace run. Flagged the flag and we

(43:21):
won the qualifying race. And afterwe won the qualifying race, Richard Benny
got out of the car and Ithought he was, you know, congratuly.
He said, we lapped Richard Petty. That's how bad they were.
That's the first year they went tocol Springs. They always run torsion bars
and leaves and they didn't know whatthey were doing. And I might have
told this story went over there andif somebody had already heard it. We

(43:44):
helped him out and will never forgetKal. Richard brought me that mug mug
to Richmond because Richard was the secondrace special special. His face on an
Internet and I put that thing onthat mantel for two years and then when
until flea market and this guy's gotfive thousand. My wife would take her

(44:05):
out. Do you still have that? Oh yeah, I think we SIT's
somewhere in an attic or someplace.That's when I was seventeen in high school,
changing Tarsha. Richard Childer that day, mister eleven days of high school
to go to Dayton. That year, when I got back to school,
the guidance council, he said,you come with me, and H.
Miller counsel was his name. Iknew. He said, he knew where

(44:28):
I had been. He said,took me to his office. He said,
if you missed one more second ofone more class, you're not gonna
get a diploma in February. SoI had to tell Richard, I can't
go to Riverside. I got toget a diploma, and then after that
I ended up going to work forMaurice when I got high school. You're
talking about earlier that when we wentout west, we always road vans or

(44:50):
something, you know. But boy, when we started riding on that big
Eastern airline, yeah, we owned. We had poker games. We would
take people out of their seats.Yeah up front, we would say,
y'all gonna have to move up fronthere, we're gonna have poker games back.
I mean we would have literally fromthe back of the plane, there'd

(45:12):
be like four poker games going on. Stewart is just laughing watching us,
and we'd be playing. You coulddrink all alcohol you want. You know,
by the time you landed on Riversideand you didn't know if you were
going to be able to go anywhereafter you got off the area, you
had to walk down the rada.Didn't have didn't have a thing come off
the airplane. Yeah, yeah,push that thing up. There was his

(45:32):
name, Bruce, Bruce Rowney.Wasn't that worked for Eastern Irelane? Bruce
Rownie. Everybody got their plane ticketsto Judy Judy Short, Judy Short.
Yeah, everybody. Everybody got thereal ten eleven flights and they had like
what six seats in the If thatplane went down, that racing was it

(45:53):
was over. Yeah. I thinkthey thought about that. Remember did you
ever go to Japan over there?They sent half the people on one airlines?
Did you go over there? Idid the first year and then and
then they sent the other half another. Well, they don't care about the
media. I mean they'd down themedia plane if it you know, But
like on purpose. Bill Elliott wasthe top ten teams was you know,

(46:15):
three or four the top teams wereon one airline go to Chicago and then
I'll go over there to Japan,and the other ones went out of Atlanta,
the ear and all them. Youknow. Ferry didn't like flying.
So when we'd have two planes,he'd say, I'm going on this one
and y'all get on me and Bradleywe maybe get on the other one or
something. He said, let's don't. Yeah, it just that way,
said, if one of them goesdown, at least mama's got two of

(46:37):
it or another. Somehow a lotof people didn't like flying. Old Bob
Johnson, you remember, oh mygod, he would take a train the
riverside. He leaves four or fivedays early, take a train to Phoenix
and then get on a train andgo somewhere. I actually went on the
train with him one year, didyou He didn't fly. He team and

(46:57):
Gussie did not want to know.They wouldn't they wouldn't fly. Yeah.
I left in Greensborough on the trainand met up with him. How long
did it take? Three or fourdays? Twenty twenty seven, Mawich something
like that. I mean I gotdrunk and clovered up three times. All

(47:21):
right, So last question, lastofficial question. You guys have known each
other for a lot of years.Well, what's a question that you've always
wanted to ask somebody else sitting atthe table but never got the chance.
I got one, did you?Well, that's a tough one. Listen,
it's to day. Did you evertake all that herble life? I

(47:44):
was. I was probably thirty poundoverweight, and he lost a bunch of
wine. I said, Bee,i'd you lose all that damn weight here
and needs a herbal light? Whateveryou had, he was selling it.
He was one of these distributors.He says. He told me about two
hundred dollars worth of this I brought. Yeah, gives it to me and

(48:06):
the man, I'm gonna lose thisone. That was an awful I took
it like he told me everything fora month. Richard Busting took it the
ass mad and he was all aboutit. We never lost a fortune all
that. He sold it to everybodyin a garage area. We never too.
We just laughed at it. Butmaybe if you're working, you're gonna

(48:28):
lose weight. Yeah, here,working boys, you know what Flossia had
a good way to lose weight.Best that that you keep your mouth shut.
That's right. Quit that's a hardquestion. I already know everything.
They ain't never held nothing back withme. I think you get older,

(48:49):
you get get away from it.Everybody goes on with their lives and everything.
And you know, when you Iwas always believer. I'd done it
all my life. That was mycareer. But when I walked away from
it, I walked away from it. I don't go to the I've done
that inspection deal for Jack McNeely,but I think, you know, you
would like to still see some ofthe old people that you like, Dale

(49:14):
Edmond, you know what I mean, And that I went to the Hall
of Fame when Benny got inducted.Phil called me and said, you know,
he'd laid that he would want youhere, and that's when I that's
the last time I've seen Dale andstuff. And you know, just seeing
the people that you worked with allyour life, it was like you talked

(49:35):
about a family, you know whatI mean, And it's yeah, it
still is. It's yeah. Ithink about when you know, when we
were together, or we were togetherand I was at different teams, and
you know, things start out great, but things in bad. Yeah,
But then over time you forget thebad, You forget well, you know
this person might have done me thisway, or he come in and fired

(49:59):
me and got this, and youforget all about that. You know.
Um when when? Um? Whenwhen Barry and Ed and Pete all left
wheel in the twenty eight car andwe're in the middle of the season,
come over to the twenty seven carwith Tim Brewer and them, and next
race we show up a pokdo Well, I was just the weekend guy.

(50:21):
Well white Elle said, well,if they all leave, John, you're
fired too, because I was withthem, you know, and and and
they we laughed about it. We'relike, well, no way they'd keep
me, you know. So weall show up at Pocono the next week
and everybody's like, what's going on? And me? And why they are
the best of friends, and youdon't you don't even talk about that,
to think about it. It's thatthat goes that goes away. You just

(50:42):
remember, I think the worst cussingout of a guy in a garager everybody
by Wadelle Wilson. I was grindingon a sway bar arm and he was
justin Baals on his car next shavingswas going to my god, he laid
one on me and we still prints. Don't get me wrong, I deserved
it because, like I mean,I was worth for Jake at the time.
And you know how Jake was.You got to do at the end

(51:02):
there and wherever you could do it, didn't care well. It's slepping like
when to run my own business,and I was always a crew chief,
had to hire and fire, anda lot of nights when you know you
had to go in there and getrid of somebody, you didn't sleep good.
That's one of the hardest things todo. Did I ever knew?
And Race always had me by hisown brother. You think that was,

(51:24):
but it was. It's tough togo in there and fire somebody that's worked
for you for a long time andstuff, and but that you know,
you go back to the generally,if somebody's getting fired, they fired themselves.
Yeah, you just got to dothe d Yeah. You and a
lot of times you don't like somebodyat the time what they said, and
then you think you know he washe was right. Yeah, I mean

(51:45):
you really come back to when yougrow I guess that's growing up. Yeah,
you grow up and you get intothings. There was one time while
ago you was talking about when wewere talking about drivers, the good drivers
that viewed the cars and all thatstuff there are. I was driving at
Junior's. He comes in, hewould you know this? So he was
terrible with setting the toe. Hecan tell you in a minute if you

(52:08):
had a thirty second toe out,an eighth fenced toe out or whatever in
a car, a rear stair car. Of all, well, we we
he's do wars out and we're practicingfor I believe it was at Charlotte and
then Sandy Jones was gonna set toepoint. Well, Hammond told us that

(52:29):
don't just act like you're setting it. What just act like you're doing But
we did. We just you know, put the hood down. He goes
out. That's all we did.Now, Yeah, we've done a few
of those. We go out,he comes back in. He said,
boys, I'm gonna tell you something. I don't believe y'all change that toe
any that's a driver. Yep,he said, did y'all change something?

(52:52):
And the whole time we look ateach other like, holy crap, he's
unculled it. Should I tell yousomething, Darrell Walter and rich all of
them. But Daryl, you workedwith him. I working out. That's
why I was open. Hammond wasthere or something that everybody that's worked with
him. He was a racer.Oh Daryl Walter, and now I'll say

(53:12):
this, he he was the firstone to come in. You had Kale,
you had Richard. They couldn't talkto the press that you know,
piercing. He wouldn't say nothing,you know. And these were the superstars,
but the TV camera went on him. They were you've interviewed people like
that. But Daryl done for racingwhat Muhammad Ali done for boxing. I'm
gonna tell you that heavyweight box wasnot until Muhammad Ali come along. Casius

(53:37):
Clay. But that's what Darryl.The camera would go on him whether he
was but he knew how to notHe told me one time, I'll never
forget. You need to learn howto talk like the man on the five
o'clock news. And Daryl could talk. And he was a racer. He
run over well, he backed itup. He backed it up. He
could back it up. That's onewhen they called Jaws. He called Kale

(53:59):
jaws kill named him Jaws, Yeahkill, named him Jaws and then Hind
At Charlotte he told everybody to meethim all to k Mark parking lot,
remember that, yep. But hecould work on his car, Rusty,
because I working for Kel and Rusty. You know, if I'm picking all
the drivers, you think, well, who's who? Who's the best?
In the cars and the air asthey run in they were equally as good

(54:22):
because Cal couldn't tell you nothing,and Tim Richmond could not tell you.
Is that the spark plug thing?Yeah, that's kind of how he wasn't,
you know, you hit it righton another. Yeah, whatever air
they were in, you know,it'd be fun to see them all in
the same thing, same car atsome point in time. But when we
got Rusty, you know, halfthe time we didn't have to suggest anything.

(54:44):
He'd say, hey, take ahalf half pound of air the right
rear and give me a half runningwedge and the left you know, and
in the womb here he'd go.And if you didn't argue with that.
And Mark Martin was the same way. You know, they come from ASA
and they brought a whole new racingchains when we started bringing him in,
the say guy and Jeff Bodine stagger. Uncle COLWICKI Science came to racing the

(55:08):
yeah, and he was the ownerof the team and done all his own
stuff. And like Ricky Rudd andDarryl Waltrup, seeing what he'd done,
he said, will I got thesponsor? Why do I need it?
Why do I need Junior Johnson?I'll own long team. Yeah. Well,
you know they couldn't do it.Alan Quicky was a special type of
person. I see had four carsin one rear inhouse. Ye he.

(55:30):
I changed tires for him when wewere splitting up with Rusty, and in
ninety at the end of the yearI went and changed tires for him for
the last three races. He mademe try out. Now we'd been all
Pro one A championship and I hadto go over there and try out to
change tires. But when you talkabout dual Maaster ceilers, we were at
Atlanta when Mike Mike Rich got killedand they put dual Master seilers on Ricky

(55:52):
Rudd's car for that race. Andthis was this was ninety and the front
the pit road is slow hoped inAtlanta, and when he hit them brakes
coming down pit road first time,that's when that car come around. You
can watch the video and I'm onPit Road and start hollering at them,
and I jumped back up behind me. Didn't even know where Pitt Road was,
but you can see me jump onthe wall backwards and and see this

(56:15):
taking place. That's just about MasterRiverside when Michael pitted and wiped out all
the Bills. We were being thefirst Pitt and Bills pits. He never
had them kind of brakes and anduh we had to finish out pit stop
and go jack up, Jeff,go jack up the car and pull the
rest of the Bills group Chucky andyeah, but stand insolve them out under

(56:38):
the car and then finished changing thetires. Yep, that was a terrible
day. That's when that's when thePitt Road speed come into effect. Now
I didn't change tires after that.Out there, changed tire and the cars
go behind you. Could you thinkthat's damn how close was it was?

(56:58):
It was scary, but you neverthought about it. No, not to
you witness that You're like, Idon't want to change tires anymore. How
many times you've been to everybody knowsDon Miller, oh Richard hit me in
Nashville. The only time. It'sprobably my fault. But hell I rode
halfway out on the hood and finallyhe stopped the wap. But Don Miller

(57:20):
everybody talladegg and it kind of ling. Buddy Parrett took his belt off.
He we was together at Dackguard andhe where he learned this, that he
was a paramedic or something in thepart time. But he worked, saved
his life. It's a tidy.He put that belt around him. Back
then they might have had one ambulancesand turn one or something and he put

(57:43):
that his belt around them. Andme and done are tight friends. And
he'll tell you the story. Butwhen they took him in the he said
he could hear everything going on.He had a big gash in his hand
in you know, and his buttcheek and he said. They took him
in the infield care center and thelady in there said, well, there's
nothing we can do for him,like he's he's not gonna and she said,

(58:04):
he said, Roger Penskey after afterBuddy Paris saved his life, Roger
Pinsky saved his life because he comein and he said, you stopped saying
that he's not gonna die. We'regonna do it, and he he told
him, you start working on him, let's get him transporting. He'll tell
you that story. I got hidat tal Dagga by Terry one time.
Pitting and uh we're running against withDale Dale was Laden were running on the

(58:30):
back bumping and we just so happenswith Pitt. But it used to be
a deal with Pitting. It wouldbe Jimmy, then Childress and then uh
so our vice version. But hetried to pick who we had to watch
each other. Yeah, but anyway, they out there running in the draft.
Terry's right on Earnhart and they wererunning when they pitty. When Earnhart

(58:50):
pitied, we would pitt. Well, they coming down. Brewer told him,
says, stay on his ass,stay on his ass. Now they
coming down through there. And Iwent to jump right after day, I
went by off the walls to Jack. Well. When I did, Terry
Clipton knocked me up over the hood, knocking the wheels off from Jack and
old steel Jack I had and herecome I got done. Here comes will

(59:15):
Lynn. He picks me up.I mean he didn't even change the Starry
come back and make sure I wasokay. And then I'm all right,
we finished the stop. They finishedher stop, and they go back out
there and I reached and I'm sittingover in Jenia said boy, I'll start
jack and I believe you hurt,I said, boat and my ribs were
killing flinging around the front. Anyway, he said, terry, and then

(59:39):
went by. You know one time, he said, come here, boy,
So what's on the car? Isaid, what car? He said,
our call on the hood? Hesaid, what you do that hood?
When you hit you? I don'tknow. Went over. It's a
quick I don't have a clue.When it went by, and it was
flewing this hood pins which just flapping. Oh you knocked him out. No

(01:00:00):
hood, pants are flapping, toldJiff, I don't want what your kids.
He come back back by and Iwent and I had my radio.
Surety gave me my radio, soI said it and got ready to put
it in my back pocket. Itfell off on the floor just so happens.
When I got hit. It rippedboth of my pants pockets off from

(01:00:22):
my pants, stuck on it andstuck on the hood. And that's what
Junior was seeing on the front ofthe race card. When my pants pockets
flopping in the air. That's agood time, right. I never got
hit on pit Road much, butBilly Woodruf hit me right here at Wilkesboro
to fight. Yeah, Bardham,Texas cowboy boots yeah around his fist.

(01:00:49):
I was the first one in theladies restroom locking the door when it comes
to fighting. Now, I didn'tlike doing that. Everybody would always grab
something. We didn't have a lotof deals, but that one you guys
had with when we won the AllStar Race, Well we didn't. I
didn't start it, but we I'vehad a good role in finish it.
Yeah. Well yeah, Sandy Jones, you're going to last quarter last.

(01:01:15):
You do what you're supposed to.Yeah, I don't blame Rusty one,
damn bit. Do you do whatyou gotta do them different? Raymond Bede'll
give me two thousand dollars the nextday, and he said this is for
the race, not to fight.All right, guys, will you got
anything else? You've got a list? Well, you've got a list here,

(01:01:38):
so do you have your list?Come on. When I've been working,
you know, I'm thinking, well, I'm anticipating coming here, and
I just write down a little thingsthat I remembered so I got a bunch
of stories in today. Um,you know, and and and you when
you sit down and start thinking back, there's more. Oh and and you
know, I got a bunch ofthem in most of my stories. There's

(01:02:00):
some stories from me with you,but most of my stories with Barry.
Yeah, you know it. Wecalled at that time. Y'all were at
the track all the time. Youcame to Sunday mornings or Saturday when it
was far off. So I was. I stayed back around the shop.
So that's who is my driver,So I around him all the time.
Yeah, But I mean we weback in them days, and you know

(01:02:22):
you're a teenager. We'd work onthat car all day and then we'd go
golf till dark, or we gofishing. We used to. We used
to think your brother was a metcouldn't talk. I don't say nothing.
Well, you know, Barry wouldn'ttalk to him about eleven twelve o'clock in
the morning. He wasn't a morningtalked to him after lun after lunch.

(01:02:44):
If I finally I get on Iget on him. I'd say, Barry,
it's eleven twelve o'clock. You cantalk now. Yeah, And he
kept looking at me for about amonth. Speak to Barry to lunch extra
lunch. He was he wasn't amorning person. That's the one story I
was on say remember when I don'tknow if you ever heard it, but
him and uh Wayne Dalton. Yeah, they're the ones that they worked at

(01:03:06):
their petties. They worked at pattiesand had come down from it. They
bought that car and was redoing it. It had been recked. They bought
wrecked cars in the week. Theyhad a body shop and they would buy
crashed cars right, and they cuttwo cars in half and build one right,
and then go sell them to theToyota place. And then then we'd
picked the car they go to randomand and we'd drive to the races and

(01:03:28):
work on Well, this is thestory I always heard from Dale. They
built a buick. They got abuick and they put it together and that's
when the demo switches went to theStern Wheel and they sold it to Lee
Lee Petty and said Lee drove itfor a couple of days, you know,

(01:03:49):
said all of a sudden, herecomes Lee back. He pulled open
door, pulls it into garage,opened the door and he's then pulled all
the carpet out. He got thatpipe on his He's told they'll get barrying
Wayne over there. You need totalk to them. Well, they come
over there, and he said,they'll say the puffing my pipe. Said,

(01:04:11):
boys, I know you've done somethingwith it, but we're in the
hell to dim or switch at Leeboy was one of them. Oh my
god, I think as one storyand said he never forgot that they didn't
feel like they were making enough moneyat the petties, and you went for
money and MC was paying the money. And so they had quit the petties

(01:04:32):
and had a shopping random and theyworked out of it during the week and
then we'd go to the race trackson the weekend. So I drove them
too, did a lot of driving. That's what you'd done. You drove
up. We'd leave some million millarfour I was thirty. I was a
million millar before I was thirty yearsold. Yea. But always when that's
one thing I always thought about Bear. Every time I think about him,

(01:04:54):
I think about that time he hidthe demo switch from him. I'll say
again about Barry. I was thinkingof bout him yesterday because it's coming up
on the anniversary of his death herein December. But he loved racing and
he was good at it. AndI mean that Kyle was a racer.
He he built model cars in ourhouse and you know, his teenage little
and he'd come out of the halland and he'd go up the hallway to

(01:05:16):
the kitchen to go get him somethingto drinking. But he'd come out the
hall like he's driving and go upagainst the wall and make a race car
noise. And that's that's what Iwant to see from kids. Is it
in your heart that you want torace? Isn't really in your heart?
And boy, he had it.You know, he had it way more
than I did. And I thoughtI was crazy about it. But that's
what makes you when you move andyou lose your wife and everything else.

(01:05:42):
Yeah, and you stay with thatrace car and you stay with that race
car. You know how much heloved it. But I'd tells him he
was good at it. Yeah,that's just like when Adam, my son
wanted to get into it. Ifound that real quick. It was in
his heart too, because like itwas mine. And that's reading I lived
and keep on doing what he did. Dude, you know we got killed

(01:06:02):
if you really look at the families, you know, like Buddy Party,
even his two sons went up andeven my boys are not at Gary's in
it. He does an inspection dealfor them, but boys with us,
you know, and they're going upthe ladder you know and everything. So
do you have a brother that wasin the speed Yeah, Larry Larry Okay
truck for Robert Yates. Well wejust talked about him on the podcast two

(01:06:27):
or three weeks ago, and hewas driving the Yates truck went down.
Brakes went out at Watkins Lynn.Yeah, Watkins happening and they find out
Ford really find out something happened tothe brakes. He didn't heat him up
because he was that's what he wasriding with him, Joey Knuckles and another
fella. Um. Yeah, andI remember Devin de Devin was with them,

(01:06:50):
worked in the motor room. Yeah. He's the one that owns always
barbecues now, ain't he is?That Devin Towns and were what they do.
But yeah, he come down here. He actually worked worked for me
at Race Hill Farms. And thenwhen I left, Jack Beebe and them
and and well Jack kind of quitand Ronnie went with drove for that guy

(01:07:14):
from California up there, the oldpetty shop up there and can curb.
Yeah, I kind of went onmy own and everything, and UH would
just building stuff by myself and everything. And Larry went to work for over
there for Robert. I got hima job with Robert over there and everything.
As you talk about Jimmy Maker andthem, you know, Jimmy worked

(01:07:35):
for UH for Robert Gee when hefirst came. Yeah, and he worked
for Bernstein there you remember, andwhen Dick Morosso we killed and that I
you know, he was Bernstein kindof was getting out of it. And
I told Jimmy Maker, I said, why don't you go over there to
Gibbs and get in over there?You know that'd be the place to go

(01:08:00):
an upcoming thing because they were talkingabout Gibbs buying Bernstein stuff. But Danny
didn't. But what's his name beenover there for a long time to work
for Phil martowskis at Square d Carwhat he worked there. I told him
cool there And I told four orfive people, the good people governor and
see Jimmy Maker because he went inas a you know, I can remember

(01:08:20):
when Jimmy him and his daddy hadtheir car, and they came here and
they would go through race tracks,you know as car fillers, you know,
like they didn't have enough cards andmake a show. And I remember
sometimes they wouldn't even make the show. He said he made five bucks an
hour working at Robert G's at nighton Robert G's cars. And you're talking

(01:08:40):
about Barry, Well, I goesthinking about this. You know, when
you're racing, you got this connection. You don't even have to talk sometimes,
you know what I mean. Duringa race, Oh yeah, Barry
were yeah, and me and himwere that. I look at him and
he you know what I mean,he knew what I was thinking, and
I knew what he was thinking.And I were that way. We were
at dayton of five hundred first race, were usty, you know, and
uh, we we're gonna have togas gas and go. Well, how

(01:09:04):
many times you've seen rusty slide througha pit, you know? So I
just look at Barry and I said, I did like that, and I
grab He saw me grab a gascan. I went three stalls down at
Daytona to the opening in the pits. No, no, no, I
had a gas can sitting on abench. I'm sitting here beside of I
forget who it was. Might havebeen with three pits up and they said

(01:09:29):
what are you doing? I wasjust hang on, just hang on.
Rusty comes in no pit road speed. You're in Daytona. You come down
there, he said. Marry saysthree two one, you know how many
pits And he says, get him, John, get him. I step
out of pit road because the Rustyknows you don't have to, you know,

(01:09:50):
he sees me. He comes slidingup to me, he cocks that
car sideways and all idea was pluggingin and had like eight laps to go
and went out. We fin usin the top ten. You know.
But that's the telepathy or whatever youwant to call it, that you have
and racing. And Rusty never saida word. He just like he saw
me step out letter right too.That's why I wouldn't know. When you

(01:10:13):
try to keep the same people that'sworking with even if you move around.
You I've only had four jobs,spend more time with them when you did
with your family. You know.On the you ever had a real job.
Never, I don't know. Inever had a real job. I
mean we always got paid to helpbunk. I mean to do something we
loved. You know, that's whatyou always say. I never had a
real job, but you always triedto. Once you work together and you,

(01:10:36):
like you said, you're with thepeople more than anything else, and
that it's it's and if something happenedto one person, everybody was there.
Yeah. I mean, you know, I hate like when Barry lost his
kids like you know, like Idid, and when I lost at him,
you wouldn't you know? Just peopleyou had forgot about for twenty years

(01:10:58):
were back. Oh yeah, youknow, just showed how much family it
is. Well, it's just likeright here, I haven't seen John probably
twenty twenty five years, five years. And you know what's it take to
pull in here? Many times Igo up seventy seven and come in here,
but he's never here. He's youknow, life's busy, life goes
on. Taking the checkered flag anddriving to victory lane is the goal for

(01:11:29):
any racer. It tells the competitionmy accomplishments resulted in a trip to the
winner circle. It's no different asa business owner, team leader, or
coach. Recognizing those deserving is whatwe do every day at five Star Awards
and engraving high race fans. Thisis Bob Laird, director of Sales at
five Star and former jackman for BuddyArrington back in the eighties. Laser engraved

(01:11:49):
and full color corporate awards, aswell as crystal plaques, trophies and promotional
products are just some of a sampleof what we offer at five Star with
state of the art equipment in ourNorth Carolina facility, let our experience graphic
artists take you from idea to conceptand ultimately the finish line. If you
are beautiful and unique designs, pleasevisit us at five Star Awards dot net.

(01:12:12):
The entire project can be completed online. Please reach out to me at
Bob dot Laird at five Star Awardsdot net nine nine nine five four one
one three zero. As a thankyou, everyone who contacts me will receive
at no charge, a collection ofNASCAR memorabilia featuring Richard Petty while supplies last.
That's Bob dot Laird at five StarAwards dot net. Nine one nine

(01:12:34):
nine five four one one three zero. This segment is brought to our listeners
by Las Vegas Motor Speedway, America'sracing show place. John Dotson said that
he felt like he had arrived intosport when Rick Hendrick called him by name

(01:12:57):
and asked him what he thought abouta spoiler that he had built for NASCAR's
approval process. Bill France Junior calledPete Wright by name, and he said,
Hey, Pete, how are youdoing When a competitor in the garage
calls you by name? Basically,any competitor calls you by name, number
one, I take that as asign of respect. I take it as

(01:13:18):
a sign that they know who youare. But for somebody like Rick Hendrick
to know your name, Bill FranceJunior, to know your name, that's
a pretty big deal. Now,cool story here. I saw David Green
at stocks for TODs and we talkedfor a long time before everything got started,

(01:13:38):
and David was the very first personin the NASCAR community to call me
by name. I'm telling you,I thought that that was a big deal.
NASCAR Bus Series champion knows who Iam. Well, that kind of
thing happened to me a long timeago, as you might expect, Rick,
and that was when I was stillworking in Rome. I was a

(01:14:00):
job as a racing writer from maybemaybe my second poor year, and I
got called by my first name inthe same day by Richard Petty and Benny
Parsons. And Benny Parsons from thatday on for the next couple of decades
always called me by my first name, as did Richard. Looking back on

(01:14:21):
your career, what do you considerthe moment that you felt like you had
arrived in NASCAR? Was it Richardand Benny calling you by name or was
it something else? Mostly Richard andBenny calling me by my name. That's
when I first realized I had somefamiliarity with these guys, and that was
so important as being a writer.You can get your best step from guys

(01:14:44):
who know you, are willing tocall you by your first name, and
who trust you. There they'll tellyou what you want to know, and
that is a great and who trustyou. That's right, That's that's the
big deal. Yeah. Absolutely,When they trust you, that's when you
get the good stuff. And I'mgonna be honest with you. I don't
know if I belong in NASCAR yet, come on, Rick. A couple

(01:15:09):
of things stand out to me,in particular, getting my company credit card
when I went to work for WestonCup saying and flying to my first race
at Pocono in nineteen ninety five.The company credit card meant that I wasn't
gonna have to sneak food out ofthe press box or sleep in my car

(01:15:29):
in the media parking lot anymore.And I can remember going to that first
race and deb and I went todinner that night, our first night in
town. I was looking at themenu, and I was used to looking
at the low end of the menu, and I looked at that menu,
and she asked me what I wasgonna have, and I said, well,
it looks like the hamburgers the cheapestthing on the menu, so I'll

(01:15:50):
just get that. And deb Iactually told me, she said, if
that's what you want, fine orderthe hamburger. But you don't have to
limit yourself like that. Our bossesunderstand that we work hard and they want
to take care of us, andthey do take care of us, and
so get whatever you want. Well, that was a good story, but

(01:16:12):
I think I took her a littletoo seriously. Don't tell me you went
to a Chinese buffet. I wentto Chinese buffets for the next ten years,
and then flying to Pocono. Ohyeah, I was a big shot
then, and obviously I came tohave a very definite love hate relationship with

(01:16:32):
flying, but that's another story foranother episode. Well, I was in
the same position you were for along time. We didn't fly it from
Ronald very much to cover anything exceptfor the occasional football game or basketball game,
certainly not racing. I had tobeg to get a flight to Michigan

(01:16:55):
in nineteen seventy seven to see Richardpetty debut is Chivrolet, which is a
huge story down the South, andthey didn't allow me to fly. But
as that recalled, until I gotthe scene, that was probably the only
time I ever flew to cover arace. David made the comment that he
was a great provider for his family, but maybe not the greatest of Dad's

(01:17:18):
because he was gone so much.Now. I know that this is a
touchy subject for a lot of peoplein the sport, but it's something that
really hit me hard because I mighthave been a big shot getting on that
plane or hitting the road driving backand forth to and from races every week,
but that was a lot of timeaway from home. I've always said
that travel was the best part ofthe job and the worst part of the

(01:17:42):
job. I mean, in whatother job could I have possibly once caught
a foul ball at a Los AngelesDodgers game. Oh, I saw that,
and then caught less than a weeklater a foul ball at a Richmond
Braves game found laws on opposite coastsin less than what are the job?
Because I'd done then, well,I understand exactly how I feel about love

(01:18:04):
hate relationship with traveling. Rick.I enjoyed traveling so much for so long
as I covered races, But aftera time, a couple of things hit
me, just like they hit severalother people. Number One, time away
from home was time lost that youwere not going to recover, and you

(01:18:26):
do miss a lot of things thatyou should not miss. And the other
thing was as flying became more difficult, and by that I mean you had
to go through the inspection of linesand all that sort of thing that goes
on, you had to be atthe airport two hours ahead of time.
I just grew to hate the grindso much. That's the way I looked

(01:18:47):
at travel a lot later in mycareer, before Adam and Jesse came along
in January two thousand and one,travel was literally all Jeanie and I knew
in our relationship. We started datingone month to the day before I started
it scene and so I was literallyon the road our entire relationship. But

(01:19:08):
it got way more complicated once theywere born. And I've said this before
on the show, but Jeanie actuallyemailed me Adam and Jesse's very first studio
portrait the day of the two thousandand one Bush Series season opener at Daytona,
and that was back in the daysof dial up internet connection, so
it took forever for that picture todownload. And while it was I was

(01:19:30):
sitting in the press box watching dalEarnhardt drive Terry Bradshaw around the racetrack and
then stop, get out of thecar and climb on top of it like
they were celebrating winning the race.That is still so vivid to me.
I mean, that's like it happeneda couple of months ago, much less
twenty one years ago, and obviouslynobody had any idea what was going to

(01:19:51):
happen in less than twenty four hours. As young as they were, Adam
and Jesse have no memory of mebeing gone as much as I was I
was back the end. But Ialso have a son, Richard, from
my first marriage. He lived inNashville with his mom, and I was
in North Carolina, so that wasa distance there. But he spent every
summer with us, and Steve someof my fondest members with him as a

(01:20:15):
father and son took place when hewent with me to races and racing related
events. And I worked in wrongfor so long. I was the only
racing writer other than Bob Adams,who was my partner there for quite a
long time, so getting relief fromtravel was not necessarily available. I had
to go to a lot of races, and I was god a lot.

(01:20:39):
Only when I came over to scenethat I realized, Hey, you don't
have to go to all these races. You now have a staff. You
can send that staff to races becausethey want to go too. So I
did that much more often, andI was home much more often, and
I really really appreciated that. Oneof my best memories of my time with

(01:21:01):
Richard, I went to an eventin Nashville. Of course, that was
my hometown, that's where he stilllived, and I took Richard to a
driver autograph session. So I knewall the drivers, and I went and
to introduced him to all the driversand he got his picture taken with a
bunch of the drivers, and Ihad on my Weston Cup scene jackets.
We were walking back to the car. This fan came up to me and
said, are you recuston Yes?I said, yes, sir, and

(01:21:25):
I mean I couldn't deny it.I had on a Weston Cup Scene jacket
with my name on it. Andhe handed me his poster. He said,
will you sign my poster? AndI'm like, come on, man,
you don't. You don't want me, you don't want me to sign.
I mean, I'm you know,I'm just a lowly rider or whatever.
But finally he convinced me, saidyeah, I'd love where you signed.

(01:21:45):
I read all your stuff, readWeston Cup Scene, been reading it
for years. So I'm gonna bea big shot. I'm gonna sign an
autograph in front of my son.And about the time I took the poster
and started to sign it, Richardlooks at this guy goes, what do
you want his autograph for? He'snot famous, whether he does have a

(01:22:08):
point balloon burst now, Steve,here is one last cheating story that they
got in. During this installment ofthe interview. Terry Lebanni had a break
issue at Riverside and when it startedraining, Steve Mill, who was working
for Hagen Racing at the time,he got in the car under the car

(01:22:30):
cover and he goes to work duringthe red flight. Now that's a no
no, yes it is. Youare not supposed to work on a car
during a red flight, just askedStirling Marlin. And Steve gets the job
done. He fixes the break issue, but he can't get out because somebody
might see him, and the restof the crews like, should we go

(01:22:53):
get him? Is he gonna suffocateunder that car cover. I'm assuming that
it didn't take him the entire redflag period to repair the problem. So
what did he do for the restof the time. I guess he took
a nap. I would have paniced. According to the numbers and comments that
we've been saying on YouTube for thelast week's video and the comments that we've

(01:23:17):
gotten on social media on Twitter,the topic of cheating in NASCAR is one
that really intrigues fans, and I'vegot to say as well, I am
fascinated with how people in the garagecould possibly come up with everything that they
did over the year. Just whenyou think you've seen it all, somebody

(01:23:40):
else comes up with something else that'sright. You know, cheating, whether
we like it or not, isa big part of Nashcar, and I
have a feeling rick that fans liketo see this kind of shading as they
go on. It makes it fun, it makes it challenging to see what
they're doing to try to beat Nashcar. Now. Years ago, it was
a lot easier than it is now. NASCAR has gone really technical when it

(01:24:06):
comes to checking on cheaters, andthat still makes it very, very hard
to get away with cheating today.But you know something, they still try,
don't they rid Yes, sir,they do it. Didn't imagine there
is what NASCAR got in place.They're gonna try to cheat and get around
the rules. Always have and theyalways will. And here's something that I

(01:24:29):
thought was really interesting. And somebodymade the observation this week that I was
talking to. In other sports,when you cheat in other sports, that's
taboo. I mean, look atthe Houston Astros from however long ago it
was, and banning the trash cansand signaling the pitches and all that.
But in NASCAR, not only isit not necessarily taboo, it's expected.

(01:24:54):
It's true That's why I stayed thefans like it is part of the sport.
If you're not cheating, you're nottrying. No, no, you're
not. And somebody asked me along time ago, when we're discussing this
subject of cheating, how many carsout there today in that field are strictly
illegal? And I said, none, not a one is strictly illegal.

(01:25:16):
And if you don't believe me,just go check that out and find out
for yourself. Well, back inthose days, you could find out which
cars were strictly legal because they weregoing to be headed to the bike of
the pipe exactly. Hey, racefans. John Dodson here from NASCAR Technical

(01:25:40):
Institute. NASCAR Tech is opening androlling with classes starting every three to six
weeks. In our forty eight weekAutomotive Technology program, students learn everything from
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(01:26:01):
fabrication, aero dynamics, pit crewessentials, and more. NASCAR Tech also
offers thirty six week welding and Cand C machining training programs, so you
can choose the path that best fitsyour career goals. Ready to see how
you can get started, visit UTIdot eu slash NASCAR Today. NASCAR Technical

(01:26:21):
Institute prepares graduates to work as entrylevel automotive service technicians. Some graduates who
take NASCAR specific electives also may havejob opportunities in racing related industries. NASCAR
Tech is an educational institution and cannotguarantee employment or salary. Hello, I'm

(01:26:50):
Philip Parsons. I'm Robert Kalma cutHi. This will lend Hi everybody.
This is Jimmy Mains. Hey,I'm Larry Pollard. You're listening to the
scene Vault Gast with Rick Houston havinga ball. Hello seen Vault fans.

(01:27:12):
This is Brian from Speedway Screens.And if you're enough of a NASCAR historian
to be listening to this podcast,there's a good chance a piece of the
past you've been on the hunt foris in my shop. I'm constantly on
the hunt for apparel and collectibles fromall genres and eras of motorsports. So
whether it be cup cars, dirtmodifieds, dragsters, or monster trucks,
I've probably got something for you.Check out my inventory at Speedway TSJ dot

(01:27:34):
etc. Dot com and be sureto follow me on Instagram and Twitter at
Speedway screens for the newest items assoon as they drop in for a peek
at what I keep from my owncollection. As a special thank you to
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(01:27:56):
com. This podcast has been broughtto our listeners by Las Vegas Motor Speedway,
America's racing show place. We havecome to the end of our last
episode of twenty twenty two. Ithas been a good year for us and

(01:28:16):
hopefully our listeners will agree when Isay that our content continues to be really
top shelf stuff. We're gonna keepdigging for the best interviews that we can
possibly get. We already have atleast two recording sessions scheduled for our quote
unquote all season. And finally,Steve, thank you for sticking with me
this year, putting up with allmy selling us with the pace Car and

(01:28:40):
everything. Still gonna make that offerfor you to ride with him in the
pace Car next year at Lonesome Pond, But you know, we can talk
about that later. Well, Rick, I never thought I would say this,
but it's been an honor to workwith you, really has. I've
enjoyed every minute of this. Everythingthat we've done together has been really supper,
been my opinion, and we're justgoing to get better next year and

(01:29:02):
listeners. Words simply can't express mygratitude for all your encouragement and support.
You are the reason we do thisshow week in and week out. I
don't know what else to say otherthan thank you. You guys keep me
going. I just appreciate it,so thank you very much. Last year,
we ended our season finale with asong that Adam and Jesse had sung

(01:29:23):
with their group Fourth Wall. Wegot some good response all that, so
I figured why not go ahead andmake that a yearly tradition. So here's
Adam and Jesse and their buddies ZachHicks and Ali Purdue singing Silent Night,

(01:29:44):
Night a Night Brian Rogen Myather andchildly sot and around mind see then Leapy

(01:30:25):
sleeping the leading sidelently share Squeega thesighty streamed from them in the farn and

(01:30:57):
sing Lilluia less saying your is moorelesssing is more side lanlightly night side of

(01:31:21):
God. Last your light read berun by Holy face. We the dawn
of deep being. Please Jesus abiby, Jesus on a night b

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