10: Unconditional Love

A chance interview changes everything but questions still remain...

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Episode Transcript

(00:23):
You can't be you can't you can'tprepare for any of you like that.
The state was so embarrassed by whatthey did to the Dualities that they wouldn't
prosecute anybody for this crime unless theyhad one hundred percent guarantee of conviction.

(00:52):
Hosted by Emi G. Thompson andEileen McFarlane, This is the shattered Window.
As if the Duallaby family had notfaced anough hardship, they were going
to be hit with another shocking revelationjust the following year. In early January

(01:15):
of nineteen ninety three, the alibiof thirty one year old Timothy Guess,
who is the brother of Jacqueline's birthfather, Jimmy Guess, was called into
question. There had been a flurryof interest in the case after the popular
MBCTV show Unsolved Mysteries aired a segmenton the case. After the episode aired,

(01:37):
a number of people called the hotlineprovided at the end of the episode
with information that they thought could beuseful in the case. Some people who
rang pointed towards Timothy Guess as apotential suspect in Jacqueline's murder. Timothy,
who suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. Hadoriginally told investigators that he was working in

(01:57):
the Park Avenue restaurant, located onthe corner of one hundred and fifty seventh
Street and Park Avenue in Harvey,from nine pm to six am on the
night that Jacqueline vanished. The timethis alibi was corroborated by three other restaurant
employees. However, the callers saidotherwise. The caller for regular customers at

(02:23):
Park Avenue, who both claimed thatTimothy was not at work that night and
that he had asked his colleagues toconcoct an alibi for him. The two
callers directed Rob Warden and David Protestsin the direction of three other customers who
were at the restaurant that night,who confirmed that Timothy was not in the
restaurant the night Jacqueline vanished. Duringthe original investigation, three employees of the

(02:47):
restaurant had confirmed that Timothy was workingthat night, but since then two of
these employees had recanted their statements andnow claimed that Timothy wasn't working. Well,
see, there's another thing right therethat a company police investigation. You
do not walk into a restaurant andinterview three witnesses simultaneously, you separate them

(03:13):
in and review them independently. They'realso will agree with each other. When
we ultimately got tim Guess, who'sgirlfriend, she said, no, Timmy,
he was not there, and thatshe just went along with it because
that's what over the restaurant, theygot a bari something had said and she

(03:35):
was sitting out there witness and wentalong with it because and these were state's
attorneys investigators, not police, andjust you know, more in competence.
It's like and immediately, I havenever seen a competent on police investigation.
Warden and Protests were able to abteinstatements from two other customers at the restaurant

(03:57):
who alleged that Timothy once claimed hehad killed before and that he could kill
again. Paul Hoogan also spoke tofive customers at the restaurant who radamant that
Timothy was not at the restaurant thatnight. Timothy's mother, Jackie Guess,
provided a link between Timothy and theIsland Or apartment complex where Jacqueline's body was

(04:19):
fine. She had testified during thetrial that Timothy frequently dropped. Margaret Murphy,
who was a restaurant employee, offeredthese apartments and picked her up to
take her to work. Jackie hadsaid that she warned Timothy not to stepfoot
near the apartments. After Jacqueline's bodyhad been fine, Margaret left just one

(04:41):
hundred yards from where Jacqueline's body wasfine. In fact, it would be
discovered that Timothy wasn't actually a properemployee at the restaurant. He didn't have
a paying job. He would frequentlygo to the restaurant and stay there all
night, sometimes chatting to the waitressesand sometimes helping out with boss boy duties.

(05:03):
On occasion, the owner would payTimothy for helping out, and he
got free food and free coffee,But it wasn't a job per se.
Due to timothy psychiatric issues, hehad never had a full time job.
When Warden and Protests interviewed Timothy afterinvestigating the tips into his alibi, Timothy

(05:24):
first of all stood by his originalstory and contended that he had been working
in the restaurant that night. However, after a while, Timothy began to
speak to Warden and Protests in whathe called the voice of a spirit visiting
him. He claimed that when thespirit visited him, his eyes turned from
greens blue and his voice got huskier. According to protests, However, they

(05:47):
noticed no change in him when thespirit allegedly took over. Here, guess
was the craziest interview I've done inmy career. I've never then an interview
like that. We wanted an interviewTim for the book, you know,
not really knowing whether or not hewas involved in the crime, though suspicious

(06:11):
of him because one reason we cooperatedwith Unsolved Mysteries was they posted toll free
number and a couple of people calledUnsolved Mysteries to report that Tim had left
the park the Avenue restaurant that nightand hadn't been seen a good part of
the time, around the time thatJacqueline was discovered missing. So we were

(06:32):
suspicious of him, but we hadno idea going into the actual interview with
him what was going to happen.But we had a mutual friend set up
the interview and we went to arestaurant chain in the South Suburbs and I
sat across from Tim and Rob Wardensat next to me, and he was

(06:57):
talking about his you know, knowledgeof the duallabies to the family because he
was after a role Jacklin's biological uncle. He talked to him, you know
a bit about David and Cynthia,his own brother who was the initial suspect
in the case. Jim Guess,who was in prison at the time,
was pretty good, pretty good alibi, and about I guess. It was

(07:21):
maybe forty five minutes into the interviewwhere we weren't getting anything of significance.
He suddenly looked across the table andsaid to me, what color on my
eyes? And I said, whyare you asking? And he said,
because if my eyes are green,I am just Tim guess. But if

(07:46):
my eyes turned blue, you know, then you'll know that I am in
the presence of a spirit who cantell you everything that you want to know
about the Duallaby case. And Ilooked at him and his eyes were actually
hazeled. But I said, butI said, while your eyes looked blue,
to meet him. And he suddenlydeveloped this kind of mysterious look on

(08:09):
his face and began talking in ahusky voice and said, the spirit can
tell you everything you want to knowabout the crime. And the spirit was
in Jacqueline's room that night, andso we asked him to describe the room,
and the Rob Bardon sitting next tome, turned on a tape recorder
that captured all of this, andhe described things about Jacqueline's room that we're

(08:31):
not in the media. Tim hadnever been in Jacqueline's room, things like
a bracelet that was on her nightstand, little details about stuffed animals, about
the light in her closet being onand the light in her room being off
that were just really remarkable unless he'dbeen there. But I wasn't about to

(08:54):
judge him at this point. Iwanted to get information. I was looking
for facts here, and so Isaid, tell me more. And he
then proceeded to talk about how thespirit lifted Jacqueline up and from her bed
and walked out of the house,slipping at one point to say I,
using the personal pronoun walked past Davy'sroom, which was chilling to hear because

(09:20):
he was obviously talking about himself carryingJacqueline and ultimately her death and being dumped
by the dumpster in Blue Allen.So we had it all on audio recording,
and there was just no question whenwe left this interview that Tim guests

(09:41):
was responsible for the crime. Theonly trouble with the interview a couple of
times Tim and I locked dies andif I looked away even for a second.
He would say my eyes blew orgreen. Once I made a mistake,
I said green, and he said, then the spirit is gone.

(10:01):
I said, no, I'm sorry. I meant I meant below the other
The other big problem with the interviewis that we were sitting there over God,
it was several hours drinking coffee,and I was really wired and I
had to go to the bathroom andI couldn't get up because he, you

(10:24):
know, he kept revealing these littleknown or unknown details about the crime that
he or the spirit somehow new.So we came away with that, and
then we told the Duallabies. Weplayed the audio tape for them. Paul
Hogan took the tape and brilliantly matchedit matched the evidence in Tim's voice on

(10:46):
the tape with the crime scene evidencefrom actual police reports that showed that they
were an identical match. And thenonly the killer would have known what Tim
revealed. So he felt and feelto this day that that even if Tim
Guess was not brought to justice,because the authorities were loath to admit that

(11:07):
they'd made that big of a mistake, having publicly staked their reputations on it,
Um. We felt comfortable that justicewas done and that the crime had
been solved, and that the actualkiller's identity was known to David sending into
the neighbors and to Chicagolans too whowatched Hogan stories. Um. And it

(11:30):
wasn't, you know, the idealending, But it was better than this
unknown killer is lurking out there anddoing these things. There have been a
couple of times in my career wherepeople have confessed crimes to me, three
altogether. I never had one inthe voice of a psychotic killer can confess

(11:56):
to um to doing something like hedid. You can't. You can't.
You can't prepare for an interview likethat. I mean, the main thing
I suppose you learn, and tryto teach this to my students, was
that, you know, when you'rea journalist doing an interview, you just

(12:16):
don't judge. You'll listen, andyou prompt people to move things along,
and if you're empathic and you know, will not harshly say something that I
was tempted to say, which is, how could you hurt this little girl?
Keep your mouth shut, they'll keeptalking. And pretty much he said
enough to hang himself during a tappedinterview, Timothy confessed that he often heard

(12:46):
voices in his head and suffered fromblockoids. He described how the soil called
spirit would often guide him and claimthat the spirit had given him the ability
to describe the laoid of the DwallabeHome. Timothy had never been to the
Duallaby Home, yet was able todescribe with the exact laoud and describe how

(13:07):
to get into Jacqueline's bedroom. Timothyeven described the blanket that was found with
Jacqueline's body, and somehow knew thatthe light in Jacqueline's closet was turned on
but her bedroom light was turned offon the night she vanished. He additionally
knew details of the stuffed animals insideJacqueline's bedroom and the jewelry on her nightstand.

(13:31):
Even more chilling it, Timothy describedhow when Jacqueline died, one of
her hands was clenched while the otherwas open, and he described how she
was placed in the spot where herbody was discovered, with her head positioned
in a northeast angle. These tidbitsof information had never been made public.
Here is what rob Ordon said aboutthe interview with Timothy Guess Restaurant. He

(14:00):
would go under this thing. Hesaid that you know, when his eyes
were green, the spirit was withhim, and when they were blew the
spirit wasn't with him. And heasked, you know what color of my
eyes that when the pros got thecar and had happened back and you know,
so he said that he knew allthis stuff because he had been pulled.
Um he knew was because there wasa spirit with him. He was

(14:24):
in communication and who confided all withinsilvation? Where who know about the noble?
That he had no other way ofknowing. And then of course the
girlfriend lived in the island apartments wherethe body was found, so he was
familiar with the air where the bodywas bu He had described the interior of
the house that he had never beenin other than when he went into a

(14:45):
doctor and I just think there's noThere was no question. But at this
point the police eboscators were out todefend what they've done, and there was
no no chance that we're going todo and let hin an investigation of Timothy.
Yes, in this case, afterit was real that Timothy was being
investigated, he checked himself into thepsychiatric word A in Gallis Memorial Hospital.

(15:11):
In the aftermath of the update,there were a lot of people who defended
Timothy. Sila, who worked asa waitress in Park Avenue restaurant, described
Timothy as a gentleman who could neverharm anybody, let alone a child.
She described how she and Timothy frequentlywent out for a drink together and said
that on numerous occasions she was drunkaround Timothy, but he never once attempted

(15:35):
to take advantage of her. However, she did acknowledge that Timothy often spoke
of the so called spirit that overtookhis body on occasion, said that she
never thought too much of it.His aunt, Helen Gay, said,
now they're going to come back tomy nephew, who has a mental problem

(15:56):
which everybody knows about, that hewouldn't hurt anybody, and they're going to
try and pin this on him.When the inconsistencies of Timothy's alibi came to
the surface, Cook County State AttorneyJack O'Malley said that based on the available
evidence, there was no current basisfor charges against anybody. Cynthia and David

(16:17):
subsequently sent a letter to Cook CountyJudge Thomas Fitzgerald, who was a presiding
judge of the Criminal Division asking himto appoint a special prosecutor on the case.
In the letter, they said thatState Attorney O'Malley had not diligently investigated
the new leads, and they objectedto a remark that he had recently made

(16:40):
in which he said that there waslittle chance that anybody would be charged with
Jacqueline's murder. Here's what Joe Cosmansaid. A boy, Timothy Guess,
you know, Timothy was brought uplater on. I think that was by
Paul Hogan in Channel five, whodid a great big This is the guy.
Timothy worked at Park Restaurant in Harvey, which is a couple of towns

(17:03):
over. Timothy Guess was a littleon the slow side, and he was
interviewed and we found nothing he wouldIt would have been very easy to trick
Timothy into making something that sounded likea admission. So I think some of

(17:26):
the things Paul Hogan used that's whathappened. But yeah, he was he
was just he was a little onthe slow side, let's say, you
know, and the tricks to mediacould use to get people to say things
are different than what we could use. Cynthia and David wrote that they wanted

(17:52):
a special prosecutor who would thoroughly investigatethe new information regarding Timothy statement, the
couple said, we do not knowwhether mister Guess murdered our daughter, and
because of our own experience with thecriminal justice system, we are not about
to point the finger at him oranyone else. Cynthia and David also accused

(18:15):
State Attorney O'Malley of not investigating Timothy. We're questioning those who said his alibi
was false. They ended their letterwith, we believe the State attorney's office
has a legal and moral obligation totry and bring our daughter's killer to justice.
Unfortunately, for the reasons stated above, we no longer have confidence in

(18:37):
mister O'Malley's commitment to conduct a thoroughinvestigation. State law would alloy the appointment
of a special prosecutor. However,State Attorney O'Malley responded to their letter and
said that a special prosecutor was unwarranted. Once again, the duallabies were denied
adequate investigation into their daughter's murder.Bob Biman toldos his theory on whether Timothy

(19:02):
Guess was responsible or not see myown personal opinion, and of course my
own personal opinion is worth almost nothing. Is that the real perpetrator was not
Hernandez, but rather was Tim Guess, and I based that basically on what

(19:22):
Guess and I wasn't there supposedly tookprotests and Hogan about the inside of Jacqueline's
room. Guess was never in thatroom, at least not with permission.
If he had known what that roomlooked like and could describe details of it,
and it means he was there sometimewithout permission. And our theory is

(19:45):
that he was just trying to dohis mother a favor by getting her a
visit with her granddaughter. She lamentedthe fact that she didn't get to see
Jacqueline enough, and so I thinkhe just tried to snatch her for a
visit. I don't think he wastrying to murder. I don't think he
wanted to kill her. I thinkthings got out of hand. But that's
my working theory, and I thinkthat's what the family has accepted in themselves.

(20:08):
So enclosure. But we're never goingto be able to prosecute him,
mind in part because the state wasso embarrassed by what they did to the
Duolobies that they wouldn't prosecute anybody forthis crime unless they had an hundred percent
guarantee of conviction. Jacqueline's biological father, Jimmy Guess, spoke to Wardenham protests

(20:32):
in nineteen ninety three. Jimmy hadbelieved Cynthia and see if it were innocent.
He had said that he knew thatCynthia would never hurt Jacqueline to a
Wardenham protest that he planned to askhis brother if he was involved, but
Timothy was in a psychiatric unit andthey had just lost their mother, so
it was not the right time.Jimmy said that he loved Cynthia and Jacqueline,

(20:55):
although he had never been a positiveor consistent presence in their lives.
On the fifth anniversary of Jacqueline's death, Channel seven, the same channel who
had broadcast the leaked and falsified reportsof abuse on Davy, wanted to do
a piece on Jacqueline. They contactedJimmy Guess, who never knew the little
girl. By this time, forwhatever reason, Jimmy had changed his mind

(21:21):
and said that he believed the juryhad convicted the right person. He has
been quoted in the media since sayingsimilar things. Timothy has always denied any
involvement in Jacqueline's murder, and alot of people close to him believed that
his mental health issues were taken advantageof and he was used as a scapegoat

(21:41):
of sorts. Timothy passed away frombladder cancer in December of two thousand and
two. In his obituary, heis referred to as the caring uncle of
the late Jacqueline. As protest leadersaid, I felt it was solved,
but I never thought anyone would becharged with the crime. He would be

(22:03):
too embarrassing for the statute. Admitthey wrongfully prosecuted Cynthia and David. Many
people felt the same way. I'mpersonally, I'm absolutely convinced that Timothy guess
I got to Jacqueline because you know, he had never been in the house
I supposedly, and yet he wasable to describe the integrator. I remember

(22:32):
talking to them that there was somethingwrong with him and that he was connected
to the family, and we weretalking about the fact that in that meeting
that there was something like that rightabout him, and then we found out
he was mentally unstable. He hadbeen questioned by the police. They went

(22:56):
they told us they were underwired,and they say is there anything else you
get about this person? And asI said it, I started talking about
these movements and his stomach with theit kept feeling like several spasms in a
circle. And at one point theysaid that they were kind of amazed by
that, and it's it's really liketwitches or muscle spasm, said he gets.

(23:18):
So they yeah, absolutely, becausethere's a point where he pulled his
shirt up and said, you know, I'm not really human and that I
had Southern stomachs, and and he'sshowing them that they he's got these twitches
and spasms. So what caused that, I don't know, except it was
just so accurate. He had athing that when he was sitting there when

(23:41):
he started that his eyes were becauseI think it was something with his eye
color that I picked up that theywere turning color and I didn't understand it
fully, and they's none that willtell you. And then they told me
later that it was about his eyesturning from blue to green, and that
supposedly the spirit comes in him andtakes over him, and when the spirits

(24:03):
in him, his eyes turned fromsaid blue to green or green to blue.
And so he asked her, myeyes different yet, and of course
they said yes, and he goes, oh good, because he's in me.
And then he went on to tellthem how she had to be taken
from the duallabies, that she hadto be taken away, and they were

(24:23):
upset because the family was moving outof state, and with them moving out
of state, the grandmother was veryupset because she was very close to Jacqueline,
and Jacqueline played with cousins other children, and Tim was upset because his
mother was so upset. He wasupset that if they moved out of state,

(24:47):
they wouldn't get to be with Jacquelineand she was a guest, so
she had to be taken from thedualabies. He said, she's in heaven
with God, where she belongs.And then he started laughing, telling them
that he could get away with murderbecause he talked to one of his doctors
and because he was committed in andout of institutions from just chemical imbalance,

(25:08):
plus all the drugs and crap heused to do. That he could get
away with murderer and never be foundguilty, and he laughed about it.
There was a reeth that showed upat gravesite, and the reef was playing.
There was nothing on it like nobanner to you granddaughter or anything or

(25:29):
rest in peace. But the thingthat was odd about it it had I
know there was something that quarters involvedon this reef. And it turned out
that he used to gamble at thisrestaurant. Were the woman that was his
alibi and later on on her deathbedsaid no, that he wasn't with me.

(25:52):
There was a machine out there whereyou could gamble. This particular machine
took quarters. This person I talkedabout that was involved between him, This
man and the waitress borrowed him.Kim guests a lot of quarters to play
this all the time. He yieldhim a lot of money that was building
up. And I feel that hewas somehow involved and wanting to be with

(26:22):
the child, and that if thishappened, he would eradicate the loan of
money because he was pressing, Iwant my money, I want my money.

(26:47):
The murder of Jacqueline d. Wallabyis a cautionary tale for police,
prosecutors, lawyers, and judges,and as a chilling reminder that the presumption
of innocence is a foundation of thejustice system. The case he's also truly
highlighted an occupational apparel of competitive mediacoverage that far too often the media relies
too heavily on law enforcement sources.From the beginning, Cynthia and David were

(27:12):
ordered by their attorneys to plead thefifth to stay silent. Therefore, early
on in the case, the mediarelied exclusively on what law enforcement said.
As Paul Hogan said, I suspectedthey were guilty, especially since the cops
were seeing incriminating things like the basementwindow being broken from the inside. Paul

(27:37):
Hogan said that it was during themurder trial that he realized that he and
other reporters and journalists had been terriblymisled by police. The media had been
used by law enforcement to fuel suspicion, and they had leaked information such as
the belief that the window had beenbroken from the inside, as if it
were fact. It wouldn't be untilthe trial that many of these leaks were

(27:57):
shown to be wholly inaccurate. Here'swhat David Protest said about Paul Hogan.
Well, he told the duallabies storyfor the first time, he found the
uncovered the truth and told it.And then even more than that, when
it came to tim guests surfacing asan alternative suspect. He told that truth

(28:19):
too, which brought a lot ofcomfort to people, especially in the neighborhood,
to know that the actual killer's identitywas known, even if he wasn't
ultimately arrested. Tragically, on thetwenty eighth of January nineteen ninety three,

(28:41):
Paul Hogan died of a heart attackat just forty eight years old. He
had been at home with his wife, Chris, when he complained of indigestion
and discomfort. Chris rush Paul toNorthwestern Memorial Hospital and he was pronounced it
at one fourteen am. Paul wastruly instrumental in having the public consider the

(29:02):
likelihood that David was wrongfully convicted.Paul Hogan was everything that a good journalist
should be. He was compassionate,hard working, and always asked the hard
questions. He set an extremely highstandard for journalism Over his career. He
earned nine Chicago Emmy Awards and twoPeter Nizzago Awards. He exposed government fraud

(29:26):
and corruptions, as well as crusadedfor those who he believed were wrongfully accused
or convicted of crimes. In additionto working on David's appeal, he helped
exonerate Sandra Fabiano, As Protests said, he was an extraordinary journalist and compassionate
person who wouldn't stop until the truthcame out. That's the highest role of

(29:48):
reporter can play to right or wrongor correct an injustice. In fact,
over his career, Hogan had evengiven him promptu lectures to his colleagues about
the importance of journalist ethics and integrity. David Protests and Rob Warden had picked
up where John Waters left off whenthe private investigator who had been so instrumental

(30:11):
in dismantling the prosecution's apparent case haddied shortly after David Wallaby was convicted.
He never got to see him vindicated. Protests and his students at Madill spent
a long time searching for similar casesto try and amass Jaqueline's killer. David
Protests spoke to us about juries andwrongful convictions. The Wallaby case was the

(30:34):
I'd done wrongful convictions stories before,but the Wallaby case was my first major
expose a miscarriage of justice, andsince then I've done a couple of dozen
more cases seventeen in which people wereultimately exonerated, and I found if there's

(30:55):
a common denominator. It's that thejury reached premature conclusions. They're swayed by
emotion rather than evidence. In severalcases, they want to get out of
there. You know, this wasa three day deliberation. I mean some
deliberations go on longer, and basicallypeople who conclude that the defendant is probably

(31:18):
innocent give way because they don't wantto spend the rest of their lives waiting,
you know, for a decision,and they cave. David Protests founded
the Middill Innocence Project, almost thepresident of the Chicago Innocence Project, and
led over a dozen exonerations for wrongfullyconvicted inmates, including money on death row.

(31:45):
Here's what he had to say aboutit. To me, the most
important part of it has been theteaching, and the greatest joy is is
continuing to hear from my students whoI became very close to all those years.
And we're out. We were outin the field. We were we

(32:07):
were knocking on doors of crack housesto get information together and in touch.
And you know, one of thesweetest was just about a week ago,
UM, one of my one ofmy students, UM wrote me to say
that he had just filed a briefin a death palty case in Texas and

(32:35):
Bob Lingo a man who was eighteenwhen he committed a murder. And the
brief, the amicus brief, wasdesigned to say, you can't kill somebody
who's eighteen, even if they didcommit a murder, because the human brain
is not shaped well enough at thatpoint too to fully know right from wrong.

(32:59):
And here the eighteen year old whomy former student was defending. Here,
my eighteen eighteen year old had goneon to be a model of prisons.
I saved the prisoners, prisoner prisonguards life in a riot that broke
out. A model prisoner in Texasstill was intent on killing him, and

(33:19):
sad to say, he became thefirst man to die in Texas after there
was a hiatus and the death penaltybecause of the chemicals that were being used.
So I had to tell my studentthat he found the truth, that
he fought for the truth, andthat he did the best he could to

(33:42):
save a life. And it's theeffort that counts, you know, and
that if you want to keep ondoing righteous work. That were a lot
of the man who was put todeath. Each one of these is bread
on the water, you know,educate people righting wrongs, correcting injustices.

(34:05):
Each one is a step in thatdirection. So I mean, I'm sad
to report that the last contact Ihave with Jared Hoffman, my student,
was to try to reassure him thathe did everything he could and shouldn't feel

(34:27):
as bad as he was about theexecution. But then I come away from
thinking, you know what, ifI've helped to inspire a generation of young
people to go out there and dothis kind of work in whatever field they
do it in, then that's what'sbeen worth it. More than the seventeen
people who have been freed. It'sthe larger lessons that students in society learn.

(34:52):
Each one of these cases educates peopleabout how the justice system fails,
so that maybe some day they willbe on a jury and they'll say,
I remember the Duallaby case and themistake that they made. I'm gonna consider
reasonable doubt here before I convict.I'm like, I'd like to think that,

(35:15):
although he won't admit it, ifyou guys have any kids, you'll
know why that. My son,Ben, the New York Times reporter,
who is an investigative reporter, whowas exposed some of the worst abuses by
the Trump administration for The New YorkTimes. Is doing this work because he

(35:35):
has, you know, a dadwho you know, you know, Ben
was with me when David Duallaby wasfreed. He was with me at the
steps of the prison when David walkedinto Cynthia's arms, And so it was
a real father's son bonding experience.It wasn't just me watching a family being
reunited. It was my son.And then later on I read in his

(35:59):
say to go to journalism school asa graduate student. Um, he wrote
what the experience was like and whyhe wanted to be a journalist having seen
the Duallaby family reunited. UM,so I'd like to think within my own
family. UM, you know thatthis sort of work inspires them, not

(36:21):
not me so much as the work. It's it's the people who you get
to meet inspires them to do goodin the world. I'm proud of him,
and I'm proud of my oldest son, Dan, who's a producer at
PBS. So you know again,it's each one of each one of these
is um a character builder for people. David Protests is an incredible journalist and

(36:47):
advocate for justice. He remained closelyto Wallabies for a long time after David's
release, but they were bound bytragedy, and sometimes it's too hard to
hold onto the reminders of such difficulttimes, even if it means letting go
of friendships. I don't think itwould be possible for them to ever recover,

(37:10):
but I did. I did learna personal lesson from that, which
was then I became so close tothe family. I helped them buy their
new home after David was freed.We used to babysit Davy. My own

(37:31):
son Ben, who's now a NewYork Times reporter, and Davy were the
same age, and they used tohang out together. In fact, Davey
came to Ben's eighth birthday party.It was it was a really My wife
was a lawyer and was responsible forgetting to the Wallabies. They're a pet
lawyer Bob Biman, because she hadmediated cases with him. So this became

(37:54):
a real family experience. It wasn'tjust an investigative story to me. It
became very personal, which made itvery hard. After four or five years
after David was freed that I sortof began to lose track of them.

(38:15):
We used to get together for birthdaysevery fourth, you know, we would
go down to the the Wabbies NewHoman and the kids grew up together and
it was really wonderful. And thenjust time started to pass and I saw
and talk to them less and less, and so at one point I called

(38:38):
up Cynthy and I said, hey, you know, it's been about four
or five years. I miss youguys. And she says, I,
you know, I missed you too, But understand something. You were our
angel at a time in our livesthat was pure hell. But your presence
during that time reminded us of thepure help we were going through, and

(38:59):
we just had to put everything aside, including the good things in our lives,
and move on if we were goingto survive. So they're haunted by
this to this day, I'm sure, but they had enough of strength inner
resources to realize they had a coupleof other kids to take care of.
David and Carley was born, andyou know, they had to have a

(39:24):
new life. They changed their namebecause the Wallaby was so recognizable in Chicago.
David went back to work, sindHe got a job and went back
to work, and it's just amazingto see bottom line for me, it
is amazing to see how resilient peopleare. Rob Ward and his staunchly remained

(39:53):
an advocate for those who have beenwrongfully convicted and as a zealous critic of
the death penalty. In nineteen ninetynine, he co founded the Center for
Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University with ProfessorLawrence C. Marshall. The center has
been instrumental in exonerating thirty one innocentpeople, and Warden blazed a trail of

(40:13):
revolutionary reforms Over his pioneering career.He has won over fifty journalism awards,
including two Civil Liberties Union James McGuireAwards and five Peter Lazagor Awards from the
Society of Professional Journalists. He hasalso altered seven books. In two thousand
and three, he was inducted intothe Chicago Journalism Hall of Fame. In

(40:37):
two thousand and ten, Warden conducteda study with the Better Government Association which
showed that wrongful convictions of eighty fivemen and women for violent crimes, including
murder, in Illinois between nineteen eightynine and two thousand and ten, had
cost taxpayers an extortion at two hundredand fourteen million. Dollars and locked away
innocent people for more than nine hundredyears, while the real perpetrator of those

(41:00):
crimes went on to commit almost onehundred felonies. The study also found that
the majority of those wrongful convictions hadbeen caused by alleged government misconduct or error
by police, prosecutors and forensic experts, or eyewitness misidentification. The study was
the first since DNA profiling which lookedat the cumulative impact of police, prosecutorial

(41:22):
and forensic failure in Illinois, andthe findings were an embarrassment as well as
an eye opener to many who supportthe death penalty. In fact, Warden
has been pivotal to the change inthe national discourse about wrongful convictions and the
death penalty as a whole. Hiswork was instrumental in influencing the moratorium on
Illinois executions in two thousand, beforethe state abolished the death penalty into eleven.

(41:45):
Here's what Rob Warden had to say. It's justly clear this crime they
were the victims of over zealous policeand prosecution, and they never should have

(42:06):
been obviously never should have been chargedin the first place. David language behind
bars unjustly for more than a yearand a half and the case left them
destitute and with basically no recourse,and there's intermin is. There's really not

(42:27):
much of a constituency for the wrongfullyconvicted. They I think people who are
victims of police until you know,very recently, just in the last couple
of months, we've seen this ratherincredible display of public demonstrations over the death
of an African American in Minneapolis atthe hands of the police. But there

(42:51):
are hundreds of cases like this thathave had that have occurred and that nothing
has happened following them. This oneconceivably could be different. Let us hope,
you know, we put a greatdeal of stock and the accuracy.
We have a great deal of faithin the criminal justice system, but that

(43:12):
faith is undeserved. As we haveshown over the years, there's an inordinate
number of lawful convictions. Juries oftenget it wrong. We have been study
after study. There have been literallythousands of cases in which juries rendered guilty

(43:38):
verdicts, but incontrovertible evidence of innocencecame to came to light later and those
are documented a very relevant and nationalRegistry of Exonerations, which I helped start
here at the University of California,Irvine. Now, one of the problems

(43:59):
is the prosecutors, no matter howegregious them is conduct in the and that
was certainly egregious under Richard and Baileyin Chicago and others nationally, can't really
be sued under civilly for their mauthaesiansin these cases because there's a doctrine of

(44:22):
sovereign immunity that um borrowed from thecommon law. That's basically, you could
only sue the king if the kingallows you to sue him. And there
is no law that allows prosecutors tobe sued um in the United States,

(44:43):
although there is a Civil Rights Actenacted after the Civil War that allows some
police officers to be sued. Soyou've seen in some cases police officers have
wound up with tremendous liability, butprocess prosecutors who are equally, if not
more, to blame for these formany of these drontical convictions of just escaped

(45:07):
unscathed. And of course this isnot the only case in which they did
things like this. How Daily wasjust you know, he covered up police
torture. He had you know,a whole scandal in Chicago of a group
of white police officers torturing African Americanmurderous suspects, leading to a whole bunch

(45:28):
of royful convictions and more than onehundred confessions obtained under torture. Daily covered
that up when he was state's attorneyand later as mayor. So that's um,
you know, it's a disgrace,and this whole thing, it all
accrues, you know, to thedisgrace of the Cook County criminal justice system.

(45:52):
David has has been able to work, support his family, had another
child, they have you know,they have done a reasonably law and I
attribute that to the fact that theyhad pretty good, strong support. They
had family and friends who supported themthroughout this ordeal. And David spent a

(46:16):
relatively short amount of time in prison. When he came back out, his
employerer we hired him. And sothey were able to recover from this better
than the vast majority of people whohave been wrongfully convicted that school at least.

(46:37):
But nobody, nobody emerges from anexperience like this whole they're all damaged,
some worse than others. You know, they well, actually, you
know, they came to my retirementfrom Northwestern a few years ago. You
know, a movie was made aboutthis, so two part in for TV
were interviewed at the end of thatand I wrote and a Ramsey Case and

(47:05):
Tiread of Springs that the Ribs wereoutspoken in support of the Ramsey family at
that time. But I think it'sunderstandable at this point and they don't want
to raise this again, so I'dbe very surprised. I think we'll be
willing to talk. This case demonstratesthe polarity in many different areas the community,

(47:29):
the law, and the media.While certain news oitlets give a platform
to miss information and false allegations ofabuse, journalists like Hogan protests and Warden
thought out the truth. The convictionof Day of a Dwallaby and its subsequent
reversal truly reflected the volatile nature ofmedia coverage and highlighted how imperative it is

(47:52):
for those reporting on crimes to remainethical and gather information from both sides.
Journalists have a duty to stick tofacts, avoid sensationalism, and report fairly.
Covering this case has been a learningcurve for us as well. We've
made mistakes and learned lessons in theimportance of integrity and ethical journalism. This

(48:13):
was a real tragedy. Those bereavedby homicide are subjected to trauma again and
again at different stages following a loss. Each milestone at their loved one misses
opens a wound that hasn't healed.When these wounds are torn apart by outside
influences such as the media and thepublic, it is our responsibility to make
sure that what is being said it'snot sensationalized or one sided. Gone in

(48:38):
the Night by David Protests and RobWarden is an example of great true crime
writing. They presented both sides ofthe case and along with the legal documents
and speaking to those involved, itwas a great resource for us. Here's
what David Protests had to say aboutthe book. Well, we wrote this

(48:58):
book in part two. Expo isa wrongful conviction, but in part to
get people to stop and question theirassumptions. And this story is sort of
like going to your eye doctor's officewhere you're looking through one lens and they
suddenly flipped the lens and everything goes. Everything goes from clear to blurry and

(49:21):
then back to clear again. Wecould have written a book that was far
less complicated and bogged down in detail, which is the main criticism of it.
And I think the fair criticism thatthere's a lot of names and a
lot of details and a lot ofevidence. But I don't think we would
have gotten people to given people thechance to make up their own minds based

(49:43):
on the contrasting views of the evidenceif we hadn't included everybody. We spent
a lot of time assembling all ofthe facts and organizing it, and then
it was no easy task to righttogether. And we literally wrote every word
sitting at Rob's computer together a truea true collaboration, which we've done twice.

(50:09):
Actually, our second book together isvery different treatment the book on the
Ford Heights four case, Promise ofJustice, very different kind of book,
much more visual, um, nottold like a lot of true crime stories
chronologically from beginning to end, likethe Duallaby story was told told in with

(50:32):
Flashmax and flashbowards. And but welike doing we like doing both. Um.
This is what I don't have totell you. I mean, I've
I've obviously seen some of your workjust in googling you that you know this,
you get you really get a passionfor true crime. You want to

(50:55):
tell it right, You want totell it compelling. You want people to
feel for the story the same waythat you feel about it and researching it.
So it's an important genre. I'mglad that it's being picked up in
podcast form now because people aren't readingtrue crime books anymore. When it comes

(51:20):
to the murder of a child,parents are very often the first suspect,
and they should be fully investigated.However, when it comes to these types
of cases, time truly is ofthe essence, and other evidence should not
be ignored or overlooked in favor ofthe parents as a suspect. There were
good people on both sides of thiscase. A while the prosecution and some

(51:43):
members of the police acted on assumptionsrather than evidence. Officers like Joseph Cosman
try to do what he thought wasright. You know, the last thing
I wanted to do is put thewrong people in jail for something as horrific
as that, and a lot ofpeople I worked with were felt the same
way. It's just you what's usableevidence and what's not usable evidence. You

(52:09):
know, That's that's what we hadto go on, and that's what you
have to use, and that's whatwe did. The jury's verdict was completely
understandable, as was the police's assumptionsthat they were guilty, as was based
on the evidence brought to them,the prosecutors assumptions that this is a case

(52:34):
that had to be prosecuted and thatthey were guilty. Everyone everyone's position in
this case on both sides is understandable. Something terrible took place in that ranch
style home on one hundred forty eightStraight in Midlothian, Illinois on the night
of the ninth of September nineteen eightyeight. After Cynthia and David were released,

(52:58):
the case seemed to come to astance, despite other plausible suspects being
brought to light. Give it appearedon The Oprah Winfrey Show, which aired
on the seventeenth of June nineteen ninetythree. In this televised segment, he
grabbed about how police handled the case, steering, I accept the police for
the most part. We're not ableto admit that they're wrong. We call

(53:21):
them for help, and they cameand threw us in jail. They ruined
our lives. Linda Patrine told usabout her thoughts on the case. The
chief was under the gun, comeup with the murderer to put this at
rest, and I think that allof this worked against the dualities. To

(53:45):
me, one of the things thatshowed that, and I did bring that
up to the lawyer and stuff wasYet I went in and I told you
my hand, my hands because Iworked at the county on tax bills that
were huge. So I had tobe FBI because I had to process this
and put a stamp that it wasfor, you know, a Cook County

(54:06):
tax Assessor's office. I was fingerprinted, and once you're fingerprinted with FBI,
you're always on record. You're intheir system. And that's it. And
the fact was that when I firstwent to the house and I asked if
I could go to the point ofentry, you know where the person came
in, there was this pile ofglass on the floor with this large shard

(54:30):
and on the window the glass wasstill all shattered. And I said to
well, Cynthia and David, isit possible I would like to know if
the police did everything here forensically,was this all taken care of? And
are you keeping this glass because Isee it's here in a pile. Are

(54:51):
they going to reconstruct the window,you know where the pieces came out?
And they said no, they're done. They did all the fingerprinting. They
told us that we could replace thewindow, and just we asked him what
to do with all this, andthey just throw it away. And at
that point, this was not fiveweeks later when this one detective remembers he
thought he saw and disturbed dust onthe window sill. I said, so,

(55:14):
in other words, this has beendealt with. Could you check with
the officer and I think one ofthem did check, and they smell that
it's fine. I could do whateverI wanted. So I took both my
hands and completely out. Ten fingerswere on the glass on either side of
where the hole was. I placedmy hands to see if I could get

(55:37):
any imaging of the person that wasbreaking in, what he'd looked like,
and to get my connection. That'sremember I said, psychometry. So I
placed my hands there and closed myeyes and I started getting imagery. And
then she had a couch down therelike and there I saw this large shard

(55:59):
on top of the aisle, andI said, me, I take the
at to hold. She absolutely,so I picked it up and I held
that trying to go further into whatI was getting. And then I didn't
want to. I didn't want tobreak where I was at, So I
said to them, if you don'tmind, I put the glass back down
on the pile. I said,is there anyway I can go to her

(56:21):
room? So they took me upstairs, and I'm thinking at the time I'm
going up, how am I goingto tell them that she's dead? You
know? I mean, this wasthe biggest thing for me, was the
problem of do I disclose this?Do I not say anything? You know?
And I thought it's going to beguided, just let it go.
The fact that five weeks later andwhen it went to court they were saying

(56:45):
that this was a big thing,was that there were no fingerprints on there,
but a partial bumpprint or something stupidthat was not belonging to anybody.
Well, they went back and theyreadied the window. Why were my fingerprints
within a couple of days while she'sstill missing and they hadn't even found her.

(57:05):
Why were they not showing up anywhere? Which indicates to me how bad
the forensic was and how mismanaged thiscase was. And the fact that you
know that what went against them sosad because there that not only did they

(57:25):
lose a child, but their wholelives were destroyed. I mean, in
my opinion, your name of theshows is perfect because their lives were shattered,
and I'm sure their children's life andaffected through all this too. I
mean, there's no way you cankeep something that's a complete secret, you

(57:45):
know what I mean. It's it'sthings leak outcome out, and I just
hope that the I know that thethings that got back to me when I
had talked to some of the people, like you know, with the court
and the judge and the lawyer,David's lawyer, that unless they found the

(58:08):
one earring that was missing, andor they found the other piece of the
rope. Because of David's case beingturned over and it was only based on
circumstantial and that's why the courts foundhim innocent, we're not able to do
that again with the next person,which would have been Tim. Guess.

(58:30):
I think that this show will helpagain part of it's part of the healing
at least that people are still caringand it's something that you just want to
resolve. You just want it tobe ended for this family, and you
want it to put her at restas well. I know that people down

(58:52):
here still care about her and arestill trying to come up with the answer
because I feel it's important to her. A lot of the investigators on this
case still believe that they had itright when Cynthia and David were charged with
Jacqueline's murder. Whatever their believed,David can not be tried again for the

(59:14):
same crime due to the double jeopardylaw. Still technically an open case.
In fact, I was I wasafter the murder about a year afterwards.
In fact, it was after alittle after Perie Hernande's arrest I went back
to the States Attorneys I was.I was a police officer. Then I

(59:37):
went to law school while being whilea police officer. In fact, during
this investigation, I was in lawschool, got hired by the Cook County
States Attorney's Office. Was there,it'll maybe ninety eight, and then I
became chief of Blue Island chief ofpolice, and that was still two thousand

(01:00:00):
three. And in two thousand andthree I went back to the States Attorney's
Office. I was in charge ofone of the bosses in gag prosecutions and
there was a lady in cold casethat wanted to They had a lot of
questions about it. In fact,she says she was. She was very

(01:00:22):
big in DNA, and she talkedto me. She says, what do
you think it would hurt to resend the bedsheet, the panties, the
rope and whatever evidence we might havehad they had any possible DNA. What
do you think about getting and rechecked? What do we got to lose?
Nothing? They looked for all that, they had everything retested because we figured,

(01:00:45):
okay, it's now years afterwards.DNA gets better every single year,
and nothing new came up, nothingusable. You know, I don't know
what condition if it had degraded byand I don't know what the condition of
it was. I let the labhandle all that, and I wasn't the

(01:01:05):
leat person on it. I wasjust informed. But nothing usable came But
it's it's DNA is amazing, andyou know, if they ever send it
in again, if it is testable, you know, what do you got
to lose? We actually did aDNA mapping on the bedspread and the rope
the second time, you know,because again this is more advanced, and

(01:01:28):
they came up with nothing. Don'tforget that was out there for a while.
It was degraded, so I don'tknow if that caused it. Or
what. That body was pretty welldecomposed. It was warm outside, it
was right behind a garbage can.So what do you have around garbage can?
Flies? There's there's mice, there'sraccoons, there's other things in that

(01:01:52):
field between there and the canal.They were all nibbling and once that opens
up, it just aids and decomposition. You know, unless they get lucky
and somehow retest the DNA, orunless they unless someone comes forward and says,
hey, I did it, butthat was thirty two years ago.

(01:02:15):
But how do you approve it?I mean, I've had cases where we
thought were over and years later somebodycome up and says, hey, here's
what happened, and we were ableto charge them and prosecute them. But
after thirty two years, you know, there have been older ones done.
So I never say never, butI just think it's very slight for something

(01:02:37):
like this to be re grabbed.There have to be a reason, you
know, somebody comes forward, there'ssomething comes forward, or there's a reason
otherwise, you know, there's somany of them. Unfortunately, DNA would
be great, eye witnessed would begreat, A confession would be great.
If you could verify the confession becausenowadays are some people that will confess anything.

(01:03:04):
They have yet to receive an apology. According to Midlothian Police, the
case is still open. When wespoke to Rob Warden about this, here
is what he had to say.It's just a standard obviously, I don't
think anything and they admit that they'vedone nothing. But it seems like whatever

(01:03:28):
sum they claim that this investigation wasstill open is kind of absurd. The
case against you of it and Cynthiawas paper thin from the onset. The
state went to trial with very littleelse other than circumstantial evidence. They dropped
him the question if they didn't doit, then who did? However,

(01:03:51):
that question is impossible to answer dueto lack of physical evidence in the case.
But not only that, it isinsufficient foundation for a murder conviction.
In a murder trial, the prosecutionmust prove that only the person on trial
could have been the person to committhe murder. It goes without saying that
the state failed miserably in showing thatDavid or Cynthia were guilty of their daughter's

(01:04:16):
murder. Moreover, the state hadfailed to provide any kind of motivation.
It speculated that Cynthia and David asideJacqueline to her bed as a form of
discipline. However, they did notprovide any insight as to where this theory
had formulated from. There was noproof of any abuse in the household,

(01:04:36):
or any witnesses who suspected any mistreatment. In fact, all of the witnesses
testified to quite the opposite. Cynthiaand David were loving and caring parents who
wouldn't even raise their voice to theirchildren, let alone bind them to a
bed. There is no case againstCynthia, then there is no case against

(01:04:57):
David. It's estimate at that approximatelysixty one percent of child murders are committed
by the child's parent or parents.When a child is murdered, the parents
are often the fairy first suspects andare typically ruled out early on in the
investigation. However, sometimes that cloudof suspicion that falls across the parents never

(01:05:19):
really goes away, even if theyare acquitted in a court of law or
have their convictions overturned. Being falselyaccused of your own child's murder is conceivably
even more lamentable and traumatic than thetrue killer never being caught, and in
a modern day world, We liketo imagine that police always get it right

(01:05:41):
when it comes to catching a killer, especially the killer of a young child.
However, sadly they don't. Accordingto Convicted but Innocent, Wrongful Conviction
and public Policy, about ten thousandpeople in the United States alone may be
wrongfully convicted of serious crimes every singleyear. One of the leading causes in

(01:06:03):
wrongful convictions or eyewitness mystics I witnessidentification is fallible, but during a trial
it can come across as so convincingthat when it's wrong, it compose a
serious risk of convicting somebody who isinnocent. In fact, every single wrongful
conviction in Missouri alone that was reversedby DNA evidence involved eye witness misidentification.

(01:06:34):
Witnesses that are sometimes conferred and howthey were coversed by police or prosecutors to
ride, or how they ride tosave their own skin. We find in
many cases the actual perpetrator of acrime has been located or identified by other

(01:06:56):
witnesses, or sometimes even just feelingy coming forward and saying hi, can
you describe for which these people havebeen been convicted? But there are a
lot of you know, if youanalyze these cases, it as I SLVE.
I've analyzed hundreds, if not thousands, of coming up cases in which
they have been convictions, and inmany of them, I mean often I

(01:07:20):
would receive a letter from somebody inprison and I say to one of my
assistants, Hey, look if whatthis person says in this letter is true,
this is just an egregious case.So when we check it out and
we find out, yeah, that'strue, but there's almost nothing to be
done because the way the way thesystem is structured, the only issue after

(01:07:45):
you've been convicted is whether or notyou received a fair trial. And if
that's the issue, you have built. If that's the only issue, you
have made a chance of prevailing.Now after where after your appeals have been
exhausted, your direct appeals have beenexhausted. There are ways to bring attacks

(01:08:05):
on a conviction. These are calledcollateral attacks or post conviction attacks, in
which you can bring forth new evidence. The new evidence is it's pretty hard
to obtain, I mean, unlessthere's some physical evidence that can be tested,
or there are maybe new witnesses whothe police had failed the interview,

(01:08:29):
who had covered up excavatory evidence,or something of that set that we've been
able to find and overturn cases basedon that, but in essence, the
system although if you I'm sure ifyou did a payer of Americans, you'd
find that ninety seven percent would tellyou that the criminal justice system is so

(01:08:53):
is fair and accurate and probably thebest in the world. But in fact
it's but highly inaccurate, and itrenders many unjust verdicts and causes incredible amount
of pain and suffering that's often attributableto police and bascutorial myth seasons, if

(01:09:18):
not malfeasance. So the fact is, you know, we often hear people
say in the United States, thecriminal justice system is broken. I take
issue with that. Using the wordbroken indicates that it once was not broken,
and that simple occurred to break it. In fact, it has never

(01:09:41):
worked. It is inherently dysfunctional,and consequently a sizeable number of people are
condocative crimes of rayed, not commitIt's kind of ironic. You know.
When I was a young it's theyoung importer, I were covering courts and

(01:10:03):
lawyers. Defensive lawyers would often tellme, all, I don't want to
try the case in the press.Well, you know, that was a
pretty good policy because by and largethe process had been a hostile environment and
that only began to change with well, with cases like Probisen I started going
on, but also then ultimately withthe advent of DNA, and particularly Gary

(01:10:28):
Dotson, which was another of thecases that I was involved in early on,
that was the first DNA exoneration inthe world. Actually, I mean
I think people have been exonerated,had been charged and exonerated, but nobody
ever have been convicted and exonerated bythe time that Gary Dotson was But by
and large, the media, andparticularly was twer Tribute in Los Angeles Times,

(01:10:56):
New York Times became early champions ofinjustice and this became, i mean
really doing a great job. Andwe wouldn't have the nfcas movement that we
have today had it not been fora for this revolution in the media attitude,

(01:11:19):
and that was brought about by enlargedby DNA. And now that we've
seen this cutback and investigative reporting thatmight obviously the media are not going to
play the important rarely thing once did. Now you know, in the United
States, for instance, we havesixty innocence projects like the Center on Afal

(01:11:43):
Convictions at Northwestern and the Innocence Projectthat Cardos founded, that Cardosa Law School
in New York, Berry Shack andPeter Newfelt, etc. There's sixty such
projects and they're going to keep churningout these cases. So the future,
you know that there's in the media, no matter what fail it takes,

(01:12:04):
are going to be eager to reportthese wrong for convictions. So it's it's
a kind of interesting situation. ButI did right. I remember a lot
of the article once on the revolutionaryrole of the media in wrong for convictions,
And we don't would have had aninlicence movement where it not for a

(01:12:24):
lot of courageous reporting. And sowe're lucky that we had a vibrant investigative
media in those days, because todayit might not have happened through all the
cutbacks. In the absence of DNAevidence, reconcition can secure an exoneration.
Here's what do you have? Aprotest said by one way is that the

(01:12:48):
witnesses were canted. In almost everycase I've been involved with, including duality,
a key witness has admitted that theylied. Everett Man in the Willaby
case told us that he looked acrossa parking lot from seventy five yards away
into hold darkness and saw a personwho looked like David Dualaby. Well,

(01:13:13):
completely implausible, and he ultimately cameto admit it. Also admitted that the
police prompted him to pick out David'spicture. So I mean that was the
only difference that separated David's guilty verdictfrom Cynthia's acquitted by the trial Dutch is
Everett Man's testimony. So we didn'thave DNA in the Duallaby case. But

(01:13:40):
the appellate court agreed that with Man'srecantation an admission that he had not seen
David d Wallaby, that there wasno longer a basis to find David guilty,
and that's why they dismissed the case. So again, no DNA,
but the man recantation. I getit why some people don't come forward.

(01:14:02):
I don't judge them. I reallyunderstand a better late than never. When
this case became a wrongful conviction,it also became an unsolved murder. A
little girl was taken from her bedand brutally killed. In the media frenzy
surrounding her murder, Jacqueline was lostbetween sensationalism and the truth. The work

(01:14:29):
done to uncover the truth was forJacqueline, For this beautiful little girl who
never got to be all the thingsshe dreamed she would be. Jacqueline to
Wallaby will never be forgotten. Ashuman beings, we like to imagine that

(01:14:49):
a child's bedroom is a safe havenfrom predators, and perhaps it was reassuring
to people to believe that Jaqueline's ownparents had killed her, regardless of the
evidence against them or lack thereof.Accepting the theory that it could have been
a stranger rekindles the biggest fear ofevery single parent in the world that somebody

(01:15:10):
can slip into a child's bedroom inthe middle of the night without waking their
parents or sibling, take them toa secluded location, and murder them.
The harsh reality, however, isthat children can be abducted from their bedroom
by a stranger in the dead ofnight. Since the Jacklin Da Wallaby case,
there have been numerous similar cases whichprove that it is more than possible.

(01:15:30):
To name just a few poly classElizabeth Smart, Jessica Lunsford, Kirsten
Hatsfield, Donasue Davis, Jennifer Schue, and then Yell Van Dam Yeah,
I mean These were all very middleclass peeping in an ordinary middle class suburb,

(01:15:50):
and for a killer to descend onthem, followed by the medium law
enforcement was just beyond imagination. Itwas just so weird that somebody would break
in while you're sleeping and take yourchild. What was he happening? To
compound it was there were copycats goingon here from this people were breaking into

(01:16:12):
houses and seeing if they could stealthe kids out while the parents were sleeping.
People were panicking in this country becausethey were afraid that it was going
to become like a Okay, nowthere's three cases that have made the news.
Now, how many more are they'regoing to be? Are they going
to try to outdo is? It'sgoing to be a new way to terrorize

(01:16:32):
people, to come in and taketheir kids. One can't even begin to
imagine the nightmare that Cynthia and Davidwould trust into when they discovered that their
daughter was missing. How horrifying foryour child to die in such a violent
manner and then to be suspected incharge with their murder. How nightmarage to
have your surviving children then taken awayfrom you and be suspected of physical and

(01:16:55):
sexual abuse. Were not a shredof physical evidence. It wasn't just that
people didn't want to believe that littlegirl could be taken from herbet in the
middle of the night. That wasbad enough. People didn't equally didn't want
to believe that parents could be wrongfullycharged with the crime. When Cynthia and

(01:17:16):
David used their right as an Americancitizen to plead the fifth they were placed
in the firing line of an investigationin the media, which was more than
shameful. In the aftermath, moneymedia outlets came forward to confess that they
had automatically assumed the couple were guiltybecause of police sources whispering in their ear
and exaggerating what evidence they had againstthem. Because of the damaging media portrayal

(01:17:42):
against the couple, their chances ofa fair trial were thwarted. A collection
of people came together to support theduallities after Jaquelin's murder. Their friends and
neighbors formed a Freedom Committee that waspivotal in changing the public perception of the
case. David and Cynthia's best friend, Peggy her dedicated her time to not
only helping getting David out of prison, but helping them get back on their

(01:18:04):
feet after he was freed. Itis not only a testament to David and
Cynthia's character, but to the memoryof Jack Gunn that so many lives were
touched by her loss. Bob Bimanwas incredibly selfless and put hundreds of hours
of work into writing an amazing appellateargument that ensured that David could be a
free man again. He said thathe didn't need payment because his son's pride

(01:18:27):
in him after David was released waspriceless. Bob spoke about his relationship with
the family since we still exchanged Christmascards and I got invited to Carly's wedding.
Unfortunately we couldn't go. We wereout of the country again, and
I got a very nice note fromCarly, who I hadn't actually spoken to
since she was three years old,but she basically said thank you for letting

(01:18:53):
my father walk down the aisle withme. In the wake of David's release,
Cynthia and David changed their names andeventually moved from Midlothian, knowing that
they would be recognized and hounded forever. In a bid to pay their legal
fees, they had to sell everythingthey owned, including two homes and had
to remortgage all of their furniture.The ordeal left them bankrupt. They remain

(01:19:16):
a close knit family who have triedtheir hardest to move forward in their lives.
They were never afforded the chance toheal and recover, and when Jaqueline
died, they deserve peace. Theydon't know anyone answers. They are the
ones who have lost so much.It has been thirty two years since seven
year old jacklind Wallaby went missing fromher bedroom in the middle of the night.

(01:19:39):
Over three decades since the Nightmare beganin Midlothian, fracturing the security of
the suburban neighborhood, breaking the trustmoney had in the justice system, and
destroying the lives of the normal family. Just like a shattered window, some
things can never be repaired. Thenightmare an end when Jacqueline's body was discovered

(01:20:00):
dumped among the weeds in a BlueAlan car park. It didn't end when
Cynthia and David were charged with theirdaughter's murder and put on trial. It
didn't end when they were acquitted andexonerated of any involvement. The nightmare still
lives on and will continue until thelingering mystery is solved, the question still
remains who killed Jacqueline Wallaby. Thankyou so much for listening to The Shattered

(01:20:55):
Window. We'll be continuing to lookfor the truth about Jacqueline's murder and encourage
anyone who knows anything to come forward. Jacqueline's family deserve pace. We will
be back with another season of TheShattered Window, so keep an eye on
our social media channels for updates.Special thank you to all of the people
who supported us on Patreon. Wewill continue to post content over there in

(01:21:19):
the coming weeks about the case.Once again, thank you and take care.