68. Mormonism & The Dallas Ripper

This week Sarah dives into Mormonism and the life of John Smith Jr so Talysa doesn't have to. Then Talysa covers the Dallas Ripper. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, I'm Teresa and I am Sarah. Welcome to the
ship show. Half asked true a grand podcast? I said,
are you ready? And then move my way? We both
immediately moved through my exclation. Anyway, how is it going?
My hair? My hair? Although we are doing some struggling

(00:26):
like always, would it even be the ship Show if
we weren't just straight up struggling NonStop? I don't think so.
I I just don't think we would be true to
ourselves if if we weren't displaying our entire shit show.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Good news, I'm getting a headache behind my right eye.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Excellent, the love that for you?

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, we'll see how that pans out.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
What I don't know if I should say. I was
gonna ask if it was because maybe somebody took your
caffeine out of your diet without telling you. But I
don't know if that's something that I should say on
here at this moment. Okay, but can we please, can
we please talk about it? Can we talk about it?

(01:16):
I mean, what.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Happened in the name of wanting better health?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Was it? No? Okay, I'm just gonna say it because
for our twelve listeners. Whatever I am in the beginning
stages of a divorce, which is why every week when
there's like.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
I almost said, yay, not being nice, just because they
don't even know why that was, it was blurred it out.
You can, so very early stages things are whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Last week, I don't know if anybody remembers me saying
how I felt like shit and was tired and needed
to like move my body more to try to feel better,
blah blah blah bah blah. I don't know. Was it
that night or the next day I found out that
my now soon to be ex husband has been swapping
out the coffee for DCAF coffee and not telling me,

(02:13):
making me feel like absolute dog shit. It had been
going on for about a week, intentionally to make me
feel like dogshit. I don't know. He says that it
was in the name of health. But at the same time,
I was also cutting out energy drinks because those are actually,
like right, not good for you. So I just like
cold turkey, no caffeine, constant headaches, brain fog, blah blah blah,

(02:37):
all that stuff. And so that's I almost commented on
Sarah's headache to ask about and that was going on
with her, And now we're talking about mind.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Force okay, but said it's fucking diabolical to like to
not even like sure, okay, if you if you true
truly were like, oh, she's try trying to cut energy drinks.
Maybe you know she was less coffee, Like that should
have been a conversation, not a just random fucking hidden switch.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
I he wanted to see if it actually affected me,
so like after after a day, I said something about
having a headache, but like I get headaches and migraines
right all the time. And I do remember him asking
like if I felt better the next day or something
like that, and I was like, that was weird. Then

(03:31):
he said he just didn't say anything because I didn't
say anything. But I'm like, buddy, we are breaking up.
Why would I tell you that I feel like chicks
say I feel like shit, I'm stressed out right, Like
I assumed it was stressed or something. But then also
I was like, maybe I should go see a doctor
to like get my blood pressure checked or something like
there's something going on here. And turns out I was

(03:52):
just being reverse poisoned.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
It shits straight, like I don't think I could survive,
Like I don't drink nearly as much coffee as you
because I can't. I have like half a cup of
coffee in the morning, and even like when I missed that,
like I get the headache. So I can't imagine going

(04:16):
cold turkey because you drink like a pot of coffee
yourself a day, okay, and you.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Have energy drink not a pot of Like today I
had like two cups okay, but my I mean when
I say cups, I'm not like measuring right cups. It's like, well, yeah,
like a mug's.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
A regular coffee mug, right, that's been I consider, oh,
probably a bigger one.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
But that's so I mean. And I've been drinking coffee
caffeine literally since I was a child.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, since Let's see, I think the first time I
had coffee, I was like three or four.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, I was my uncle's ten years older than me,
and he used to make me iced coffee. So I
have enough energy to stay up and watch ww yeah,
like some Monday night raw sh It's not to nineties
if that doesn't speak to what the nineties. Like, I

(05:11):
have had caffeine flowing through my veins since I was
a tiny child. Yeah, same, and then I was just
someone else's guinea pig for a week, which yeah, I
was like when I text you, I think it was
just like death penalty. Oh yeah, I like murderous because again,

(05:32):
like and you kept see you said multiple times like
that should be some form of assault. It is I
would feel assaulted. Happened to me.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's why Ald Cantin drinks like two pots
of coffee a day.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
He's adhd like and so it doesn't affect him at all.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
But then like he's like, oh, I'm you know, it
worked because he's got a copee pot at work. He's like,
I'm gonna try to cut back. So he just cuked
like immediately cut to nothing to like one one like
thermos a day that he takes and I'm late, and
then he's like, I feel like shit, and I'm like,
I wonder why listen.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Kent and I can have a conversation about how shitty
that feels because now I know anyway, Yeah, on that note,
don't touch her coffee. It is the one thing like
like I make my coffee in the morning and I
stand in the kitchen and I had my first sip
up warmth in. It just it brings me to life.

(06:28):
So I I tried to go decalf when I was
pregnant with Connor, because I did give up all caffeine
when I was pregnant with him. I probably fucking shouldn't
have maybe when we ADHD, but I'm not sure if
the studies have been done on that. Oh no, but
yeah I did.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
I tried decaf for that, and I'm like, I'll do
I address rather go without than have decaf coffee then
drink a lie.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yes, Yes, that's that's what's going on, and that's my
life update of doing that. Yeah, it's a fun time,
fun fun times, fun times. I don't know about that.
I've definitely had funner times, yes, like and a number

(07:15):
of very different Ok. Okay, we had a little bit
of a technical difficulty because Hi, hello, what we did.
We were talking about how I'm getting a divorce surprise. Yeah,
and then that you're home homeschooling. Yeah, we kind of

(07:39):
I don't even know what to homebound, I guess is
what they call it. Yeah, it's that's still happening. I
am hopeful that he does get to go back in
some capacity after spring break, which is the end of April,
which we are almost in when this comes out. It
will be. Oh yeah, yeah, it's still very up in

(08:01):
the air.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
We you know, we want certain things in place before
we agree to him going back. So so where we're
at with that, it's still trusting along. So when we
say our lives storship shows that's that's what we mean.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
I mean, I feel like you mean it. Yes, there, Yeah,
it's fine. We have been through worse. I feel we've
been through better. It's fine, We're gonna we'll make it through. Yeah,
I think I go first. I believe that's what we
talked about, which we talked about fifteen minutes ago, but

(08:37):
it feels like it was an hour ago. It does
feel like a decade ago. All right, So I am
going to tell you about Joseph Smith Junior. So, Joseph
Smith Junior was born December twenty third, eighteen oh five,
and Sharon Burmont Britannica said, Joseph came from an unremarkable

(08:59):
New England family. Same, that's like okay, or we're starting
off strong with fransults from Britannica. Was what you got
against New England, Britannica, But was just just unremarkable, unremarkable, I mean, but.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yes, also same, like not the New England Park unremarkable part,
so his family was tenant farmers. During the economic downturn
of the seventeen eighties, Joseph's grandfather as Al lost most
of his property he had in top Field, Massachusetts. So

(09:38):
this led as Al to eventually pack up and move
to Vermont. So there in Vermont, Joseph's father, Joseph Smith Senior,
tried to establish himself as a farmer. And Joseph Senior
and Lucy, his wife, obviously married in seventeen ninety six,
shortly after they had become acquainted. So it never it

(09:59):
did really say like how long they had been acquainted,
but it just said like they met, they got married basically, Okay,
as one does in the late seventeen hundreds.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Would you like to know how old they were? No,
I was just gonna be like, hi, meet kettle. Oh
I was together for a whole year before we got married, right, Yeah, yeah,
we did. We didn't move past. We did the We
always say like the military weddings, because you know, like
being in a military, they meet somebody and get married
pretty quickly. That's that's basically what we did. We met,

(10:35):
moved in six months, and got married at a year
and then was pregnant a month later that day, basically, yeah,
like a month later. Yes, when I found out I
was pregnant with Connor. So yeah, we did that. We
just stopped judging Lucy. I wasn't judging. I was saying,
it is, Lucy, it's just very much. You know what

(10:59):
what happened, what happened then, and No, but they were
of appropriate age when they got married. She was twenty
one and he was No, wait, she was twenty two,
he was twenty one. Okay, I was expecting you to
say terrible, terrible agent. No, No, I was very surprised.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
It was very refreshing to not see a twelve year
old being married off to a thirty five year old.
So they got married, Joseph Senior and Lucy, and the
couple's first son, Alvin, sadly died on childbirth in nineteen Nope,
I'm gonna end up sucking up dates because it's just
what I do. If you hear me say nineteen something,

(11:37):
tell me Sarah, that is wrong.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Correct that. Okay, seventeen ninety eight was strength is a
little bit off. Yeah, just a few hundred and some
odd years off.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
So two years later, the couple had their next son, Harem,
and then the family moved to Sharon in eighteen oh
four and rented Farmleand from Lucy's father. But after and
I'm fortunate series of failed crops and lots of moving
and the birth of Joseph Smith Junior, the family packed
up again and moved to Palmyra, New York in eighteen sixteen.

(12:11):
I love that you added that Joseph Smith Junior was
born with like all of the terrible things.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
I mean, they were like trucking through life. Terrible things
kept happening, their crops kept failing, and then they popped
out another child in that process, you know, because when
your crops are failing and you had nothing else to
sure like that's yeah, you just want to create more
mouths defeat.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
At the time, so Lucy Mack, Joseph's mother came from
a Connecticut family who had separated themselves from conventional congregationalism,
and the said were more involved in secretism. Do you
know what any of that means? No, it was like
you were just speaking another language at me. I like
zoned out in the middle of that Senate. I also

(12:56):
had to look up what both of those words were
for because why couldn't we have come up with different
ways or easier ways to say this?

Speaker 1 (13:04):
We could not. So Congressionalism was the Christian movement that
started in Eland in the late eighteenth nolate, sixteenth and
seventeenth century.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
It was somewhere between the theological position, like between Presbyterianism
and the more radical Protestantism of the Baptist Quakers, which
again were just like a bunch of big words, for
they were mainstream Christians basically.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Okay, you know what I mean. Why didn't we just
say that? Right?

Speaker 2 (13:35):
So, Secretism is basically just those who separated from the
general Puritans and looked for new prophets to reveal God's
like true church. So like they were the people who
were still late in search of They still believed in
God and Christianity, but then they were like looking behind
beyond that, like that there were still profit prophets that

(13:59):
were to be like.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Made. This is in the seventeen hundreds, yes, the late
seventeen hundreds. Correction, early late seventeen hundreds, early eighteen hundreds. Okay,
because I've said a ton of dates already. Yeah that's right.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
So yeah, I was so just basically kind of giving
an idea of like where his mom's side of the
family came from and kind.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Of like where religion started to play a role for
him growing up.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
So while the family did practice religion privately, they didn't
often attend like actual church services because again they were
searching for like more and after moving to Palmyra, they
became involved in magic and treasure pressure seeking. Magic not
magic in the sense of let me do a trick
for you, because it was also like that's a weird jump,

(14:54):
but it was a concept to describe a way of
thinking that looked to invisible forces to influence events, effect
change in material conditions, or present the illusion of change,
so like manifesting.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah. So again thinking more along the.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Lines of like like and of what a prophet would
be where they like, oh I saw God today, let
me tell you about it.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay, that's how I take it, so like the type
of people that I avoid.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah so yeah, so we went from basic Christianity to
magic and treasure speaking.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
So Lucy did also like sometimes still attend like regular
church services, but joseph S was a hell no for me.
Dog and their kids seem to also stay home with
him when she would go to like regular church services.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
So this religious divide within the Smith family as well
as the Pomaira area left Joseph Junior the one I'm
going to be talking about the most somewhat of a
loss of where to find a search a church that
would suit him. In his autobiography, which was called The
History of the Life of Joseph Smith, Joseph portrayed his

(16:06):
childhood as a fool was full of quote indignant circumstances.
So Joseph got typhoid, okay, and he almost died and
lost a leg, almost lost a leg to it.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
I almost lost a leg to typhoid. Yeah, I don't know.
It didn't go into detail as to how. I don't
know if just he got maybe a septic after getting sick. Now,
I don't know, But listened to last week's episode if
you don't want to know what typhoid is, because we
went weirdly enough. I just went into the depths of that.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
But yeah, so he he also experienced typhoid as a child.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Okay. So he spent from the age of seven to
ten either in bed or like lumping around on crutches
because he was just sick. Okay, that's a long time.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
It is, so I I'm trunk of your childhood. Yeah,
so it makes me think like there was obviously more
that happened there, but they're.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Just got lump together. Yeah okay, because early eighteen hundreds, Yes,
so his parents were quote obliged to labor hard. So they,
you know, basically the hard work on a farm being
tenant farmers, and they had nine children to support, so

(17:27):
like apparently with every failed crap they just popped out
a new kid as well. Well they need to have
the kids to work on the farm.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Also, yeah, true, which maybe was the crap stopped feeling
after the Joseph faking his leg injury so that he
didn't have to look on the imagine it's like, I
think bad enough of this. I'm ten, I.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
I don't want to do this. Farm life is not
for me.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, it would be slightly funny. So sadly, but very
much of the time Joseph didn't receive a formal education
because did they have.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Formal educations back then? If you didn't have money, I
honestly don't even know a one room schoolhouse. But if
it's determined that you're like better off working on the
farm and will learn more right there whatever.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Okay, So, like I said, no formal education, but his
parents did teach him the basis of Christianity.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
What more do you need to know? Right?

Speaker 2 (18:26):
I mean, we know how to work on a farm Christianity,
you know. So in Palmira, with the construction of the
Yur Canal started starting in eighteen seventeen, there was also
a boom in economic and spiritual growth at the time,
with different religious groups, social reformers and utopians blocking to

(18:47):
the area to seize the new opportunities the canal would offer. Okay, So,
as I said before, Lucy was a seeker secretism whatever
I didn't word it right here, or someone that looked
beyond you know, what the basic religion religious experience would offer,
as you know, through Christianity. So Lucy described Joseph's mind

(19:11):
as quote considerably troubled with regret or with regard to religion.
So like you could see like there was he was
having more questions. His family taught him, you know, Christianity,
but then they are also kind of teaching him or
you know that there's there's got to be more, there's
more to look for and whatnot. So we're kind of

(19:32):
getting into like that a friend of things. So Joseph
himself wrote that he quote pondered many things in my
heart conversing the situation of the world of mankind. Why
I included that quote, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
It doesn't really belong there. Bless, that's none thetfest.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
So seeking more, Joseph said his religious revelations began when
he walked into the woods the spring of eighteen twenty.
So when Joseph was fourteen years old, he prayed for
help and guidance, and just like that, Joseph said, God
and Jesus themselves appeared to him. Okay, did he was
he like eating mushrooms from the forest or something. There

(20:12):
were no mention mushrooms. That is the eventure I'm choosing though. Okay,
now that you've said it, that is what I'm choosing it.
That's what I'm picturing. So they God in Jesus answered
Joseph's question of which church is the right church by
telling him none of them they were all wrong.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
I don't disagree with that.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
So from this point on, Joseph thought himself to be
a prophet.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
I do disagree with that.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
So when Joseph relaid this vision to a local minister.
He didn't believe Joseph and said that he was just delusional,
because again, how could you say, you said, Jesus and
God together in the woods, and they told you that
in New York, and yes, and they told.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
You that all of the churches are on.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Joseph still believed in this vision or encounter with the
Good Lord, and on the night of September twenty first,
eighteen twenty three, Joseph's received yet another revelation while again
praying for forgiveness. Joseph later reported that an angel who
called himself Marony came to him in his bedroom. Maroni

(21:27):
told Joseph of a set of golden plates that held
the record of the ancient inhabitants of America.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
First of all, that's a very creative name. I know that, yes.
Second of all, hold on the plates are saying what
they are? A set of golden plates that held the
record of the ancient inhabitants of America. So the people

(21:54):
who lived here forever before or are we just talking
about the white people?

Speaker 2 (21:58):
No, we are talking I do belie we are talking
about like Native Americans and like whoever came before them
like type of thing, like we're going way.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Back, okay, not just the way my bold plates come
down and it's just like the Mayflower.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, no, I do believe it was beyond beyond Fine.
So Joseph found that Clates buried in a stone box,
luckily not far from his father's farm, on a hill
now known as Hill.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
They did not look up how to say this, come
camorrow Camorakay, we're gonna go with that c you m
O r A h. We're gonna go with Kimora Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
So it wasn't until four years later, after Joseph had
met and married Emma Hale. There was really nowhere else
to include this part when, but it happened in this
So okay, he got I'm married that. Moroni then appeared
to Joseph again and told him he could remove the plates,
and then he instructed him to translate the characters engraved

(23:09):
on the surface of the plates using a special stone
called the Interpreters. So do we have proof that these
plates exist?

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Forgot to? I don't think so. I do not believe.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Cel Okay, hold on, like literally, while I was typing
this up, I mean, I'm like I need to go
back and look these up.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
I did briefly cover Mormonism form one of my clums
I think I don't think I looked it up either.
Smith obtained testimonies from eleven men who who said that
they had seen the plates. The plates are no longer
in existence. I don't think they ever. I don't think
they ever existed. Yeah, we're gonna go with sorry for

(23:54):
any Mormons that are listening that, I'm like, shitting on
your religion.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Can or email us with better information, since you only
be obviously, I would hope no more than.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
After he translated the plates, Smith returned them to the angel.
Oh that makes sense, making them unavailable for examination today?
Right right?

Speaker 2 (24:17):
I mean you know, why wouldn't you want Why would
you want to keep them?

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Why would you want a proof of that? There's no need? Okay,
so quick recap. God Jesus visited Joseph, telling him all available,
all available churches are the wrong churches. More years later,
somewhere in here, Joseph say, more years Joseph got married,

(24:45):
he was visited by an angel who told him about plates,
and then four years later said angel said, okay, even
go dig those plates up. That just so conveniently were
buried by your father's farm, right, okay? Okay, Also more
information insert because I didn't know where to put it

(25:07):
because it really didn't talk a whole lot about his wife,
which I'm surprised it mentioned her name at all, to
be honest, But as I said earlier, oh he was
twenty two, she was Nope, she was twenty two. He
was twenty one.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
And the couple would later go on to adopt twins
and then have nine biological children of their own.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Oh my god, though five of them did die during infancy.
Oh that's really sad.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, but again, there was really no other informs. There
was no other place to insert that, but I wanted
the information to be able. Yeah, okay, So while he's
doing all of this, so yeah, while he's while he's
creating a religion, yeah, he's also having a family.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yep, which, sir, how do you have the dying? Okay?
So Joseph insisted that he did not write the Book
of Dead, that he didn't write the book but merely
translated it with divine guidance. So Joseph completed the translation
in under ninety days, and in March of eighteen thirty

(26:11):
at the age of twenty four, Joseph published a five
hundred and eighty eight page volume called The Book of Mormons.
Jess Christ also like this whole thing was just some kid,
like not even a I'm sorry. If you're twenty four,
I get you're technically an adult. No no, no, I'm no.
I'm saying no, no, you're in fun. But like I

(26:36):
work with early mid twenties people at the where I
work at, they can't make a religion. No.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Savannah called me my little sister. She'll be twenty one
in April. She called me this weekend saying that she's
had a headache for like three or four days, and
I'm like, you know, going through symptoms, asking all of questions,
what have you tried this, that and the other, And
then she said something about pressure in her eyes, and
I'm like, bitch, do.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
You have a sinus headache? Go take some fucking clariton.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Because she's in Illinois like springs spring in and whatnot.
And so then she texts me like a few hours
later and she's like the allergy meds were.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
So like, I don't okay, listen, I am called am,
I I am old as fuck. I'm thirty four. Yees, right,
So I don't even most days consider myself to be
a fully functioning adult. I do not.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
I mean, I don't know how I am where I am.
I don't know how I've reached the stage of thirty three.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
So, like, if a twenty four year old told me
this story, I'd just be like, Okay, what drugs are
you on? Buddy Honey's. Yeah, let's get you tugged into bed. Now,
that's a fun nighttime story. Yeah. So no, I do
not I agree, I do not think. But at the
same time, like this whole country was founded by children, children,

(27:59):
which is just crazy. They were more mature children. Yeah,
they had more responsibilities.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, I would see more responsibilities I don't know about
I don't know if mature is the appropriate.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Word. More responsibilities, but also less accountability. Yeah, yeah, we'll
go with us different times, all right, just different. That
was a tangent. Okay.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
So, yes, a child wrote Book of Mormons and now
millions of people follow well not at this point.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
But like that day today, Yeah, okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
So the Book of Mormons told the one thousand year
history of the Israelites who were led from Julu from
Jerusalem to the Promised Land in the Western Hemisphere. So
after arriving and to their new home, they did as
you would and built civilizations, wars, heard the word of prophets,
and also had a visit from Jesus himself after he

(29:00):
was resurrected. Okay, you know, all of the normal stuff
you would do when you're creating your own religion, right
and kind of changing how things were told in the Bible,
informing them to your own basically is how it sounded
to me, right, so much like the Bible Christian one is.
The Book of Mormon was complex and lengthy, and it

(29:23):
was divided into books named after individual prophets. And according
to the Book of Mormons, a prophet named Mormon who
was a general of what I don't know, but a
general nonetheless. Okay, okay, anyways, so this prophet was the
one who condensed and organized the history of his people
and engraved it on those gold plates that Joseph had found.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Buried near his father's farm. So Mormon prophet general person
is the one that compiled all of this fountain of
knowledge on these gold plates for Joseph to find, yes
and translate. I almost aid decipher I mean translate, okay,
so to tie it into your now or the Americas.

(30:11):
So they went on to say that in four hundred CE.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
I didn't I don't remember with that as c Yeah,
the Nephites or the record keepers were wiped out by
the Lamanites, which is thought to be the the answers there,
the ancestors of Native Americans. So that's how it like
ties into the records of Like, is that what Joseph
Smith is saying or is that historically we agree to that? No,

(30:40):
that is like what I think was also like in
the plates that he was told to translate and disperse
that information.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Okay, okay, So moving on.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Joseph puts the book out in March and then in
and then on April sixth of eighteen thirty, he organized
a church with his few dozen believers or followers whatever
you would like to call them.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
How is he getting these later they were called saints.
They believe he's just going around and featuring his gospel
and what he was told from these plates and from
you know, in God, and Jesus visited him and the
Angel visited him. Yeah, chah.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
So then from there Joseph's greatest work would be gathering
people into settlements, which they called cities of Zion, and
there they would find refuge from the calamities of the
last dates, you know, as one does, because all religions
have to have.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
A terrible ending. When you say all religions, I say
all cults. Okay, yes, stayed up shadow the same thing.
So malk male converts were then ordained and sent off
to collect more converts. I don't know why I wrote collect,
because that's a weird way to put it. They just

(32:13):
walking on, clucking them out of out of the woods.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
So I assume that's the same as like the missionaries
you see walking around today from door to door, you
know how, like they have to go on like their
mission for like a year or whatever.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
That Mormons did the door door thing, I thought that
it was, yeah, the Jehovah's I thought Mormons did it too.
I have no idea. Am I miss you or right? Okay,
I'm not crazy. Yes, Mormon missionaries, also known as full
time missionaries, are known for knocking on doors as part
of their patilizing reforts. So yeah, so they also just

(32:52):
kind of like go around and try to share their
beliefs Okay. So this resulted in tens of thousands of
converts by the end of Joseph's life, so which is crazy. Yeah, yeah,
I see, I say the exact like like today's number

(33:15):
at the end. I think. So Saints as they were
called or members of the church, first went to the
western edge of the American settlements in Independence, Missouri. So
like they're trained, they're moving quest thank you.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, But the other settlers there I thought their presence
was intolerable. So the Saints moved on to other counties
in the state Missouri, just trying to like find a
place that would accept them and their beliefs and maybe convert.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
It was during this time that Joseph had moved his
family to Kirtland, Ohio, which I guess was near Cleveland,
and there they tried to start like another gathering place
or place just you know what I say, Cities of
Zion is what they were calling.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
And I think that's the police why when I briefly
touched on Mormonism, the cult and he was the Kirkland cult,
and that I brought his people back there because.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
For whatever or whatever, because settlers and other places were
having none of it, like no, thank you, good bye, right,
please leave.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
But sadly for them, none of these communities survived because
the Saints followers whatever you want to call them, were
sent out anytime their numbers started to increase, because that
then threatened to give them political control over the towns
they were trying to settle in.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
The more they were getting.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Supporters or converts or whatever you would like to call them, obviously,
then they did have a more hold in whatever community
that they were in. They those communities for again, ashek no,
thank you, right, please sleep. So in eighteen thirty eight,
Joseph again fled to Kirkland. No friend, fled from Kirkland

(35:11):
to Far West, Missouri. It's just called Far West it
was that was the name of the place. So unsurprisingly
Joseph was again met with opposition. So after the threat
of the third ousting, Joseph attempted to defend his church
with arms, but they were of course met with resistance
when local Missourians came at them with a vengeance, and

(35:35):
the governor ordered that the more Mormon speed driven out
of Missouri, and where it wasn't possible to like get
them to leave, they were ordered to exterminate. So Missouri
was wild and what if they were like, no, we're

(35:55):
fine with the religion we have, get the fuck out.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Or your right. I mean it's like wild West, literally, Yeah,
So they wanted nothing to do with Mormonism, okay, because
new religion cults was bad. So in November of eighteen
thirty eight, Joseph was arrested on charges of robbery, arson,
and treason, and had he not escaped, he probably would
have been executed as well. So Joseph got away and

(36:20):
fled to Illinois. He and his fellow Mormons gathered in Commerce,
which was on the Illinois side of the Mississippi River.
It was a nearly abandoned town, so it was pretty
easy for them to take over, even and take over.
They also took it upon themselves to change the name to.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
What did I say earlier, is it Neuvau? Sure we're
you gonna go with Neuva. So they changed the name
of the town to Nuvau, which is a Hebrew word
for beautiful place. It was there that Joseph finally built
his most successful sediment, Men that event we.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Are we're switching into science. Pull out your science books.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
So, like I said, it was there that they he
finally had a successful settlement and it even had its
very own temple on a bluff overlooking the town, but
that temple would not be finished until after Joseph's death.
So new followers were coming from both Europe and the US,

(37:29):
growing new vaue big enough to rival Chicago is the
largest city in the state of Illinois, which I did
not know that. One article said his following group the
city to as many as twenty thousand people at one
at the time.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
That's crazy. Yeah, Like, because he was fourteen, he thought
he had a vision, Like, that's craziness. God and Jesus
both visited him in the woods. Where was the Holy
ghost hiding deep inside?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Okay, So joseph followers believe that he was being directed
by revelations, that he was, you know, receiving from a
higher being, and if questions ever arose, Joseph would call
upon God and then dictate words in the voice of
the Lord.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
So he was doing voices. I don't know if it
meant like actually doing a voice or of like he
was just translating picture, like holding up a book reading
it to everybody and being like and then God said, hey, Joseph,
I mean, I like that adventure for you. This is

(38:39):
my I can never go to church. This would be
me in church and just be cackling in the back. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
So basically anytime somebody was like I'm unsure of this,
he josephould be like, let me pop out back girl,
pick I'm going to go have a revelation and then
I'll come back and prophesize that to you and I'll
tell you why you're wrong.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah, I me go think about it.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, and then it, I guess was just accepted.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
So sometimes these revelations would give practical instruction, while others
would explain the nature of heaven. So some even explained
the responsibilities of the priesthood. Every one of Joseph's revelations
were meticulously recorded and preserved to be passed on, and

(39:24):
in nineteen thirty five Joseph published the first sixty five
revelations and a new volume called the Book of Commandments
that would later be called the Doctrine and Covenants.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
So we have the.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Book of Mormon, and then he also came out with
another book that is called the Doctrine and Covenants with
sixty five revelations that he was given okay, through divine power?
How much money was he making off from all of this?
Don't ask me questions. I didn't look up.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Don't get help, Okay, I don't know, like I don't
if you're building a city or every church is right
or is it all hands on deck, like everybody's just
giving in, you know, like where the other.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Cults they all move in together and play their own role.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, but like all of your money has to go
to the leader, right generally, I really.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Didn't see any mention of money. But you're right, like
there's it's it's being financially supported in some aspect, and
it's got to be coming from the people, right. So
I wonder Mormons ties like Christianity does, like where they
give money to the church or whatever.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Don't ask me. I didn't look that up either, because
it just now popped into this is your case, not mine. Okay.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
So like most Christians, Mormons also believed in the Bible.
But they also believed in like I just said, because
I went off my notes to the Book of Mormons
as well as the Doctrine and Covenant. So they've got
three books they got to follow.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Sounds really confusing. It dies, Like, can we combine that
all into one? So I'm not carrying three books, I'm
going to drop one. I'm clumsy. Is there any overlap? Yeah?
Like can we just can we get like a condensed
version right because cliff notes please. So Joseph taught that
more revelations would come and he'd translate them when they
did in the future. Joseph's teaching did differ some from

(41:25):
traditional Christianity because he also included some practices from the
Hebrew Bible. So like we're we are just pulling from everything, okay.
So the Hebrew Bible is like the Old Testament, which
is like the first part of the Bible, because there's
old and New Testament than the Christian Bible. Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
So Joseph built two temples in his lifetime and had
two more or had two more planned to build in
the future. These temples were modeled after those of ancient Israel.
So I mentioned prisood earlier. So Joseph's male followers would
be appointed to priesthood, which is.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
I think it's just basically where they can like go
off and reach the word of the Mormonism. That's kind
of how I took it. So in the temples.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Joseph implemented rituals of washing and anointing for consecrating priest,
and he pulled the instructions for that from the Book
of Exodus.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Which isn't the Christian Bible. Okay, the first of the
three books that you have to be able to carry around.
I feel like I should be taking notes right now.
Oh and sweet old Joseph justifiedlygamy because that is a
thing in Mormonism by referencing Abraham from the Bible, because

(42:51):
Abraham had more than one wife. So Joseph's flake, he
did it. We can. He's like, I really like that idea. Yeah,
I would also like this. So, which, how do you
have the time? I don't. I don't even have the
time for one spouse. So, as we just learned, Yes, so,

(43:14):
of course, being the first Hebrew patriarch, Joseph was sealed
to like thirty wives. So being sealed is just the
ceremony that they did to bind a man and a
woman together for eternity. Right, But again, only men can
have more than one spouse, not the weapon. But surprisingly,

(43:38):
it didn't look like he had any children with any
of these other women. From what I gathered. Okay, So
Emma of course supported Joseph's wife and believed everything that
her husband did and preached. But she obviously really struggled
with the multiple wives thing, but again being a faithful wife,

(43:59):
like she's still stuck by him and supported him because
he was a prophet and that's and what are you
going to do in that time period when you're right
a woman? Right?

Speaker 2 (44:11):
So just someone Justh's other teachings were things like in
the Bible that you know, like men were in the
lead roles of family in church. He did also teach
that men and women would be redeemed together through their
eternal marriage.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Though so women still had shred of hope. It's probably
the only way they got them to create to this,
like cool, I get to go to heaven because your husband, thanks,
thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
So just to believe that every man could be a
priest and that everyone had a chance, I guess I
read it like through him because he was a prophet
or whatever, but basically that everybody can be their own.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Blast prophet. They could you know, talk through God or
God talked through them. So God only talks through the
men obviously, Okay, women, I would have been fucking hung
in this time period in New England, and I've been

(45:20):
to Midless, I would not have made it same. So
through the Temple origuals, his followers were given the knowledge
they needed to enter God's presence and become like God.
So just again like they can you're your own higher being,
I guess is kind of what it lends to. Or

(45:41):
like I didn't make the roles up, I did not
make the rolls up. So one article said something like,
you know, he wasn't a polished preacher, but because his
ideas or teachings were original and new legged that's what
drew a lot of people in. And probably because it
was technically the basis of it is Christianity, just like

(46:04):
with a spin on it. So like I think that
probably also helped to bring new people in because it's
not entirely different from what they were always taught, but
it's like expanding on what they were taught. But obviously,
with you know, bringing in new religion and everything, it's

(46:25):
not always, like I've said many times now, it's not welcomed.
It's not met with open arms. There was somewhat of
like a holy war happening because Christianity or Christians were like, no,
not doing this, and then Mormons were trained to come
in and establish themselves as well. So for fourteen years
Joseph led the religion he was told to create by God,

(46:45):
Jesus and that angel guy and Garni Maroney Maroni close enough.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
And obviously they even garnered national attention for his religious
movement because because he's creating city, yeah, and the brand
new religion at the age of fourteen. In eighteen forty two,
the editor of the New York Herald described it as
a spiritual system combined also with a morals in industry

(47:16):
that may change the destiny of the race. No, I'm
not sure if it was referencing the spiritual choice or
the humankind race. But Mormonism obviously made a pretty big
impact done the last.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
And with being talked about, you know, everywhere at this right.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
So in eighteen forty four, my brain just fucking like this.
It is like a factory, like my computer did yesterday,
just a whole restart. In eighteen forty four, Joseph said, quote,
I intend to lay the foundation that will revolutionize the
whole world. But sadly for Joseph, he never got the

(47:58):
chance to continue his prophecy because on June twenty seventh,
eighteen forty four, Joseph was arrested and charged with promoting
riots in treason, along with his brother harrim and two
of his friends, John Taylor and Willard Richards. The charges
stemmed from the growing outrage against Joseph and his followers

(48:19):
after Joseph ordered the suppression of a reform magazine or
newspaper in Nouveaux after dissenters published it. So basically, people
who were no longer following him published newspaper in his
holy city, and he was having none of that.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
And it was like shut that, shut down. And so
obviously the people who have separated, and then the people
who are just you know, around in the communities around
them who didn't want anything to do with Mormonism, obviously
we're getting more upset the whole situation. Okay, The men

(49:01):
were ordered to turn themselves in at Carthage by Illinois
Governor Thomas Ford. The towns and areas, like I just said,
were filled with anti Mormons who had become increasingly agitated
over the Mormon movement. The Carthage Grays, which was the
local militia who were purportedly also anti Mormon were sent

(49:27):
there to keep the peace because now Joseph, his brother,
and two friends are in jail waiting for whatever trial
to comp and people were just not happy. So a
mob grew outside of the.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Jail and eventually stormed it. The mob then shut through
the door where Joseph and his brother and friends were
being held. So I think, I don't know why I
didn't put that part in, but I'm pretty sure it
was like upstairs on the second floor, like and then
they were outside the door, just like shooting in all
Willy Nelly so Harrow. Joseph's brother was the first to
be shot, and he was shot in the face and

(50:05):
he obviously did not make it. And then it was
said that Joseph was able to get off three shots
of his own before his gun was fired. He had
a gun in jail, yeah, apparently, because the one article
said that he was able to shoot back.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
And then I wonder if, like the police, what am
I trying to say, the people guarding the jail seller
or whatever gave him a gun. I don't know. Yeah,
I'm not entirely sure. Just like weird, it didn't seem
like they really did stop, yeah the mom but right, yeah,
So he was able to get off a few shots

(50:44):
of his own. So shots were not being fired into
the room from both the hallway stairway outside the door
as well as outside of the jail house. So now
they're like know where they're being held in the jail
house and they're shooting outside in So John Taylor was
hit multiple times, with one shot hitting the watch in
his best pocket, stopping the time at five sixteen pm.

(51:07):
And Willard Richards was also grazed by a bullet, but
luckily for him, he was mostly unharmed. He was the
one hiding in the corner.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Probably John Taylor, like I said, he was hot hit
multiple times, but he did survive. Joseph was shot four times,
twice in the back as he ran for the window,
and then he fell to the ground outside Jesus So
in a matter of just three minutes, the profit of
the New Mormon movement was killed by a mob of

(51:36):
more than one hundred men. By the time Joseph's younger
brother Samuel had gotten two carthage, Joseph was already dead
and the town was empty. Many of the mob members
and just those who lived in the town fled the town,
fearing that the Mormons would retaliate for what had been.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Done, but the Mormons did not attack back.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Rather, they quietly brought their profit home to nou Veaux
and had funeral possessions for him and the other men,
or his brother, not the because the other two lived.
It was said that more than ten thousand people came
to pay.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Their respects to Joseph. They didn't I don't know.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
I didn't include this part in there. But one article
said that they.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Buried Joseph and his brother like they had the funeral
service and everything, but they didn't actually put their bodies
where they buried. That or very said they were bearing
them because they were afraid to graid Roberts.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
So they think it was like in the basement of.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
I don't know if it was a church or a house.
I can't remember. I don't know why I didn't include
it was five o'clock this morning's true.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
But either way, they didn't actually bury them. They said
they did because it made for a big thing back then.
So Governor Ford would later note or say quote upon
the principle that the blood of the martyrs is the
seed of the church. There was now really more cause

(53:08):
believe no, cause I'm gonna fuck I knew I was
going to fuck this up.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Every time you do all I know it's so tear
well because then and it's always at the end where
like I can't scroll down with it, I have to like, yeah,
so my brain just can't bring all right. Governor Ford
would later quote or say quote upon the principle that
the blood of the martyr is the seed of the church,
there was now really more cause than ever to.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Predict its success. The murder of the Smiths, instead of
putting an end to the delusion of the Mormons and
dispersing them as many believed, it would, only bound them
together closer and closer than ever, gave them new confidence
in their faith and an increased fanaticism into quotes, So

(53:56):
basically he's saying, we thought that killing their prophet it
was going to just put an end to this whole mess.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
But made it worse. But in turn it grew them
closer together, and they continued to use or you know,
spread the word of Mormonism. So the Mormon religion now
today has grown to over seventeen million followers saints whatever

(54:22):
you call them, worldwide. So at the base of At
the base of it, Mormonism believes in the restoration of
Christ's original church, the Bible and the Book of Mormons
a script and that all people are spirit children of
God with the potential to become like Him through following

(54:42):
Jesus Christ and living a righteous life. So yeah, that's
the start of Mormonism. Obviously.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Since the mob was I read between one hundred to
two hundred people, depending on where you want to get
your information. Nobody knows who chat and killed Joseph, right,
because old timey that's a fuck ton of people. And
he was shot four times, so possibly by four different people, right,
Probably by four different people. Probably, yeah, by four different people.

(55:13):
But that is again, like I told you earlier, before
we started like this could have gotten even more crazier
ends up.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
I tried to like stick to like right. I tried
not to go too crazy with it because I know
you said that you possibly have something to do in
the future. It's not it's a it's just a cult
that breaks off from So now I don't have to
do four pages of a brief history of more. Fin
I did an He's worried. It was a mess, but

(55:47):
I did it.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Nonetheless, and yeah, that was I don't like I knew
that there was just some random dude that started Moronism.
I didn't realize that he was so young when he
like had his first revelation of being a prophet, right,
So yeah, that was all new to me. And I

(56:10):
didn't realize how closely related Romanism was to Christianity. I
thought it was more more of an offshoe or you know,
separate than.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
What it actually and it is. So yeah, I don't know.
It's like he kind of took the religion he knew.
Coppy paste edit take this part out. I don't like
that part. I'm putting this parting from this other religion.
Like yeah, basically, so, apologies to any Mormons who might

(56:40):
be listening that we offended.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
If I got anything wrong, send to Lisa an email.
She will let me know nicely.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
I will. I will screenshot and send it right to
Sarah like cry about this bitch, and then I will.
So my is where Britannica dot com. There are multiple
like different things on there. The main one, I USO
was written by Richard Bushman. PBS dot org had multiple

(57:12):
articles that I pulled from. I don't think I used
Wikipedia at all, but I had it open smithsonianmag dot com.
There was an article by Eli wiz Witch. Yep, sorry
I messed up your dam but yeah, that was yeah.

(57:35):
I I'm glad you were the one to go in
depth on that because I don't even know why I
started or why I like, what want me to pop
up from you? But then I'm like, oh, that's then
when you're like, yeah, you should do that so I
can do I was like, well, you know what, that
would make sense because I'm gonna do this eventually. Yeah,

(57:59):
it's oh my god. I just pulled up my my
notes and it was playing, Oh that was scary. Welcome
to my yesterday. Do you want to say what happened
to you? Oh?

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Yeah, oh pay So I don't remember if I mentioned
it earlier, and I do.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
I think you did.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
So my computer is eleven years old, can no longer
be updated, and like it's been getting slower you know
the last right, and like you used to be able
to edit, yeah, and now you can put like it
would not let me.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
So yesterday I was trying to type up this case.
I had like all my articles open, and normally I
can like switch back and forth really easy. Between articles.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I can tie, like I have my notes on one
side my articles, and then I'm typing and whatever.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Excuse me. Every time I would click on like an
article for to switch, it would completely refresh the page,
take like five minutes to load, and then just do.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
The little spinny thing. Then, like if I was in
my notes typing, I would type out a sentence and
then it would literally take like a minute or two
before it like showed up on the screen. And then
I was sitting at the table and all of a sudden,
my screen just went like static, like the old static TV.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah, and I'm like my Farris of picture. I was like,
that looks really bad. I love that for you. I
told Peon that my heart dropped on my butthole. Then
we like Joseph Smith is coming out. He's telling me
to stop already.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Yeah, but then it then it eventually there just popped
like it restarted itself, and I made it through, so scary.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Penton did order me a new laptop though, because he's like,
I don't know why you just won't do this for yourself.
He's like, because I'm suffering through, right, Yeah, I'm like
I thought I could make it, and he's like, just
fucking so now he ordered me annual laptop, so well,
that'll be exciting when that gets here. It will be
except I know that there's going to be new updates

(59:57):
to it, so I'm yeah, and I'm not. I like that.
So because I don't like no, I'm ault I don't know.
I don't like know either. Yeah, anyway, all right, I'm
covering the Dallas Ripper today. I didn't know this one.
I don't know. I might I need more I'm from
I had never heard of it before. And at one

(01:00:19):
point while I was reading stuff and like doing the
note that I do the same thing that you do
split my screen and whatever, I had to look up
to make sure it was real. I've done that before,
because I'm like, am I the fucking dupe right now?
Because this reads like maybe it's just because I've been

(01:00:39):
watching a ton of Criminal Minds lately just to like
get out of my brain. I was like, this is
like a fucking Criminal Minds episode. This is insane. And
I text you that you like, text me that, yeah,
I'm gonna do this one instead. Yeah, I've definitely had
to I've had to do that before, like I've been
in the midst of a case and I'm like, let
me just fact check myself real quick. So that's exactly

(01:01:00):
what it was like. But also I was just like,
how have I not heard of this? Yeah, because when
you think of a tealsa case, it is going to
be this, But like, how have I not ever heard
of this? So the Dallas police had no idea like
what had started when they went to collect the body
of a murdered sex worker on December thirteenth, nineteen ninety.

(01:01:23):
So it is found in plain sight on the eighty
eight hundred Do you say eighty eight hundredth block eighty
eight hundred, I would say the first day of Beckley
View in oak Cliffe in the oak Cliffe neighborhood of Dallas. Sure,
the kids that saw her thought that they had stumbled

(01:01:44):
across a mannequin, like every person who's ever found a body. Yeah,
Instead it was the nearly nude body of a dark
haired woman lying face up, wearing only a T shirt
and shot in the back of the head with a
forty four caliber clip. Detective John Westfeln We're gonna go
with that, took over the case and learned from another
officer that the victim had been Mary Lou Pratt, who

(01:02:07):
was thirty three. In another source she was thirty five,
Like between thirty three and thirty five, was a known
sex worker in the area. This area was described as
like a hangout for drug dealers, addicts, sex workers. Also,
I'm like, what the fuck were kids doing there? Right?

(01:02:27):
But maybe it's different in the daytime. Kids will be good. Yeah. Also,
one source said that this area was where Lee Harvey
Oswald went into a movie theater after allegedly shooting President Kennedy.
And I cannot get away from the JFK I thing
at all, need you to do it already. I read
that and I was like, why can't I do this?

(01:02:50):
Is like the fourth case. It's been like JFK ties
in this way, It's almost like you should just cover
that case day. Maybe I'm going to have a literal
popcorn that day. I'm going to need a cheer that
doesn't spin in case I feel like standing up yelling
well second and end for you anyway. Way. So really,

(01:03:14):
at first, to police, this murder seemed like an unfortunate,
routine right homicide in a shady area of town with
a high risk victim. But then the medical examiner got there.
Doctor Elizabeth Peacock was going over the body to figure out,
you know, the cause and manner of death. And she

(01:03:35):
placed her hands on the dead woman's face and prepared
to look at the condition of her eyes. He touched
the eyelids and pushed them open, and to her surprise,
she only saw muscle and gore. No. I it appeared
that the eyeball had been removed with surgical care, and
like not just like gouged out in anger. Right, I

(01:03:57):
was thinking a bird moving to the other eye. She
opened the lid and saw the same thing. So whoever
killed Mary Lou Pratt had removed her eye, both of
her eyes, without making so much as a mark on
the lids, and had apparently taken them with him. That is,
it's an interesting combination because they were so gentle as

(01:04:19):
to not cause any external damage on the face, but
they shot her at the back of the head. Right, Okay,
so what are you doing with eyeballs? I don't know.
I listen.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
I told you that my thought was like, oh, maybe
a bird ate them. As terrible as that is, I
was not prepared that they were going.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
To be surgically removed. Okay, so given the bizarre nature
of the crime, the detective contacted the FBI's ViCAP unit.
So their Violent Criminal Apprehension Program was a computerized database
that provides details about prior crimes or criminals who may
have some predictive association with stuff, so like you can
pop in missing eyeballs, I guess, and potentially something you know. Yeah,

(01:05:05):
he's bringing the FBI in super early, which I appreciate. Yes, yeah,
So the criminal behavior specialist said that the killer had
murdered for pleasure, had taken the eyeballs as a souvenir,
and I wrote, we've all watched Criminal Minds. I don't
know why I'm explaining this basically said the killer would
strike again because the memory of how this murder felt

(01:05:26):
would wear off and it would be like chasing that
high again. Literally, like in every Criminal Minds episode, was
this was it?

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Mine Hunters? What's the one that was on Netflix?

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Mine Hunters? Was this the case on there? I don't remember.
I only remember that being ones that I knew, Like, yeah,
I don't remember it's been i'd mind kemper and yeah,
you can't remember, and I think that was set earlier,
like this is happening in the nineties. I think the
show is set earlier, but there is a Criminal Minds
episode where somebody takes the eyeballs thank you. Okay, So

(01:06:04):
the police just kind of tucked all this information into
a file, and you know, they were aware of the
danger of this person striking again, but they had no real,
real evidence from the scene. They had no leads. It
was rumored that Mary lu Pratt and another sex worker
named Susan Peterson had ripped off stolen goods from a

(01:06:25):
warehouse belonging to one of their customers, and to police,
it just seemed logical to believe that that man had
gotten his revenge. But I'm like, I mean, if she
was just shot then right, yeah, it's yeah, investigators couldn't
figure out who he was, Like, it's just a rumor. Yeah.
The mutilation was kept from the media, and the crime

(01:06:49):
was reported in like the back of the newspaper and
soon forgotten. But I think it's good for them for
keeping it from the media. Yeah. Well, and also, I
was just going to say that I am surprised since
she was I don't want to say just a sex worker,
but you know what I'm saying, like that she was
a sex worker that they did call the FBIA and

(01:07:09):
so quickly because normally those are ones like like, oh, yeah,
she just had bad blood with somebody and they got
their revenge. Think had her eyeballs been not intact, yeah,
that probably would have happened. But they contact the BAY
I think just because it was like, that's weird. Yeah,
we've never seen the shit, right, And I think they

(01:07:29):
might have been hoping that with that ViCAP the unit
that they would be able to figure out like, oh,
in Oklahoma, someone was just doing that or whatever. Yeah,
So the case went cold. Two brothers were questioned based
on a tip, but there was no evidence against them
and two months passed before police really thought about this

(01:07:49):
case again. Okay, so officers John Matthews and Regina Williams patrolled. No,
how am I gonna rework? Okay. Officers John Matthews and
Regie Williams were partners and they patrolled along the Oak
Cliffs Jefferson Boulevard together. Officer Matthews spotted a sex worker

(01:08:10):
named Veronica at the Star eight motel and this is
in mid December. I guess this was like a super
commonplace for some to take customers She said she looked
pretty bad that night, and she told officers that on
previous evening, a man who had picked her up had
tried to kill her. She had like a wound on

(01:08:31):
the top of her head to show that she was
like brutally beaten. She said she had barely escaped and
had hidden from him until she could get to a
friend's place for help. Violence was part of the lifestyle,
so there wasn't much the officers could do for her.
She didn't have any information like a license plate, you know,
guy's real name or anything, and there wasn't really any

(01:08:53):
reason that they should link her incident with what happened
to Mary Lou. They then saw her get into a
light blue truck on December fifteenth and tried to They
then tried to arrest the man like She insisted that
he was actually the one who had saved her from
her attacker and asked them to let let him go.

(01:09:15):
The driver was a man who called himself Speedy Right,
and the address on his driver's license listed a home
on El Dorado Avenue, which was not far from there.
He said he had a wife named Dixie, and that
he and Veronica were just friends. The officers passed the
story onto the homicide unit just in case it provided

(01:09:37):
any information for any case, not necessarily Mary Lews, but
they were like, this super weird thing happened. Yeah, Veronica
is saying she got attacked by a guy. Then, just
just so everyone's got the same information plus police work.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
So far, I will say that they are sharing informatia,
they're bringing in the FBI.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
I hope it doesn't go downhill. I don't really think
it does though.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
I think like they're just saying, like we're actually like
normally we when cases like this are covered, it's like, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
They didn't do it, Like they skipped steps, they contaminated
the crime scene, they wiped down the counters. Yeah, right,
they just aren't sharing any information. So and I think
in cases that involved, like you said, involved sex workers,
it's like just completely overlooked, like, yeah, you shouldn't have
been doing that to begin with, right, And that's just

(01:10:28):
that comes with the territory, right, Yeah, Okay, But then unfortunately,
Susan Peterson's body was found nearly nude, with her t
shirt pulled up the same manner as Mary Lou. She
had been chat three times, once in the top of
her head, once in the left breast and then one
point blank in the back of her head. One bullet

(01:10:49):
had pierced her heart and the other had entered her brain.
He had been dumped in South Dallas, just outside of
the city limits, and the medical examiner found that this
victim would be linked to Mary Lou Prap because her
eyes had also been surgically removed. And we find a
different trophy. Just what a weird one a. I mean,

(01:11:13):
there's no rhyme or reason.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
If you're being a serial killer, then you're gonna do
with serial killer things. And that's gross, like taking somebody's
eyeballs out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
I don't like it. Sarah is struggling. When I started
typing this up, I was like, Sarah is not going
to enjoy it. It's not like the removable body parts. Like,
It's just it would be weird if you did enjoy that. Okay,
it makes that. How do I say that something weird? Yeah,
it's just it doesn't well. Right, So now they knew

(01:11:42):
that they had a repeat killer, one who apparently operated
from ritual like he could have left the eyeballs right,
but did not even worse. Two days before her murder,
Susan had indicated to a patrol officer that she might
know who Mary Luke Pratt's killer was. She did an
offer an identification then, and obviously was never into was

(01:12:05):
not able to. So investigators thought that the offender likely
lived or worked in the area and was probably a
resident of Dallas, rather than like just some stranger passing
through town. I think because they had multiple women saying
that they encountered this guy or knew who he was,
it was less likely that he was just someone passing through.

(01:12:25):
Can we give levery sex work for their own police
officer to monitor when this guy pops up again. I
don't know how many police officers Dallas had at this point,
but probably not just the thought. So officers Matthews and
Williams thought about what Veronica had said, Like, they're not
in the homicide unit, but they're patrolling the area, and

(01:12:47):
they're obviously sharing information between units and hearing what's going on. Yeah,
so Veronica was still telling the same story about how
she had nearly been killed. She was considered like a
known liar and generally made little sense, but her consistency
made this story more credible. Then she added that she

(01:13:07):
actually saw Mary Lou being murdered, but she couldn't identify
where that was or anything, so there were still questions
on the hilladly things right, Okay, so since her story
did change, it was like, we'll keep that in the
back of her minds, but really no other leads. So

(01:13:29):
with working with the FBI, police believed that the killer
was probably white and therefore would only target white sex workers,
as he had done twice already. Special Agent jud Ray,
the FBI supervisor for that region, was the person that
was working with the police on this case. He said,
typically serial killers stick to targeting their own race, but

(01:13:50):
do sometimes cross over. Okay, we also believe that the
offender might have had some kind of medical background. No
one could like identify a case where this type of
mutilation had occurred before. They just like with the precision
that is, removing them. Just so with you saying, can
each sex worker have their own police officer? They did

(01:14:12):
assign two squad cars to the area to keep watch
over the late night activities like upping patrol. Yeah whatever,
but they couldn't, unfortunately, assign an officer to each person.
The first two murders had occurred about two months apart,
so they were wondering if they would see another incident
in April, like they're looking for patterns and trying to anticipate.

(01:14:34):
On March eighteenth, despite the stepped up patrols, a black
sex worker named Shirley Williams, who is forty one, was murdered.
She was found laying on her side near a school,
and the medical examiner came to this scene, rolled back
her eyelids and discovered that this was the third victim
of the same attacker. Shirley also had facial bruises and

(01:14:55):
a broken nose, probably from being punched, and she had
been shot through the top of her head and in
the face, so maybe she was able to put up
more of a fight than the other women, thinking well,
and I was thinking also, there was the one that
got away, and then the next person that was killed
was shot three times, like so it does seem like

(01:15:16):
there was an escalation because the first one shot once,
then can't let this one get away? Shoots three times?
Does whatever, and then it just does seem like an
escalation of I got to make sure this one doesn't
get away, right, Okay. So there were no fingerprints anywhere,
and there was also no seamen found like on any
of any of the victims at this crime scene, though

(01:15:39):
they did find an unwrapped condom next to Shirley's body.
He had not been as careful this time when he
removed the eyeballs. He had like kind of slashed her
face as if I don't know, like as if he
was in a hurry or maybe startled or startled or
or something like that. They found a broken off tip
to what turned out to be, in exact, a knife

(01:16:00):
in her eye socket. I don't like that. It would
be weird if you did. Detectives figured out that Shirley
had left home the night before, telling her daughter that
she would be back later, like later that night. Yeah,
she was then with friends, reportedly getting high. It was
it was raining that night, so Shirley was wearing a
yellow raincoat. Her friend said that she got into a

(01:16:23):
car and that was the last time that anyone saw her.
Didn't we know what kind of car? Or I think
everyone was getting high. Oh that's right, Yeah, so forgot
the hype part. Another sex worker named Brenda said that
a few evenings before Shirley was murdered, a white man
had tried to kill her. So now we're at two
women saying someone's attacking me. She offered a description of

(01:16:48):
an older man with salt and pepper hair who drove
a green or brown station wagon. She thought she recalled
a mustache and slight beard stubble. She said he could
have been white or really tan, but not same. She
said that he had invited her into his car and
wanted to take her somewhere to have sex. She resisted

(01:17:10):
because she had her own idea of where to go
and was careful to never leave familiar territory, but he
wanted to go somewhere else. This made him angry, and
he shouted about horrors doing him wrong and acted in
a way that she felt forced to spray him with mace,
but he kept driving, so she jumped out of the

(01:17:31):
car while it was still moving. He says, good for her,
that would get like those are good survival, survival, survival skills.
But if they just get that's scary, so scary. The
police believed that Shirley had been murdered in the area
that Brenda was taken to. Okay, and so they you know,
they're thinking, like her clothing should turn up then, like

(01:17:53):
her yellow rain jacket should be something that's not hard
to Yeah, so they did search the area. They found
a that they went through but came up with nothing.
Dallas police were getting kind of frustrated the fact that
this serial killer didn't stick to a specific victim type
was going to make it even more difficult to find

(01:18:15):
the killer, so they invited the FBI in to be
more fully involved, which kudos, I mean a plus when
does this? So this is why when I'm like looking
it up whatever, I was like, is this real? I
get that?

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Absolutely because nil.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Not normally do they like to call people in or
share information or or take people's stories seriously about being
attacked like this, well, and especially somebody like a sex worker,
because why should I believe you?

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Right? I'm not saying right like I No, I didn't,
I know what you mean. We agree that it's gross
that they don't take those people seriously. Yeah. So before
Shirley's atapps see, criminalist Carlie Lynch looked with the FBI
looked at William's body, I wrote prior to the autopsy,
which I already wrote at the beginning of the sentence.

(01:19:10):
So he looked the body over with and with tape
removed hairs from all over. Okay. He would then place
that under a microscope to examine their pattern, shape consistency,
and he found a pubic hair that was from a Caucasian.
This wasn't a ton of help, we know hair types
are just like similar in nature, but it was at

(01:19:32):
least something. Police also were able to match ballistics from
Mary Lou's murder to Shirley's. Okay, that's been a question
in my head. I was trying not to ask out loud, right,
So this was especially important because Shirley's mutilation made her
case different, like the fact that wasn't as surgical and
possibly harder to link to the other murders. But then
I wrote, but like, hey, hello, their eyeballs are missing, right,

(01:19:55):
this seems could it just be that he got interrupted
during right? Well, so, so he's taking them somewhere, killing them,
disfiguring them, then dumping the bodies my gathering correctly, Okay, right,
needed that recap, but my brain real quick, just to
make sure it's on the right page. Yeah, I don't
do nearly as many recaps as you. I have to

(01:20:16):
because if not mms. Okay, So, given three murders in
their territory officers Matthews and Smith thought about what they
had heard on the streets over the past month, and
again turned their attention to the story that Veronica had
told about seeing Mary Lou Pratt murdered and being acted like,
They're just like, this has to be connected in some way. Yeah.

(01:20:40):
They recalled the man that they had stopped speedy and
decided to run a check on his address. When they
researched it, they found that the property was listed in
the name of Fred Albright, who owned some properties near
where the first body had been found. But Fred Albright
was deceased. Okay. A few days earlier, a frightened woman

(01:21:01):
had called the deputy to discuss a man named Charles Albright,
who was Fred's son. She once had worked in a
clothing store at the mall, and Albright was a customer
and had come in frequently and gave her gifts. Her
fellow coworkers disliked him, but she decided to go out
with him because they weren't getting gifts. Or also, that

(01:21:25):
name does sound familiar, does it? I will have to listen,
obviously for much more details. But she soon would regret
this decision. She considered him to be dangerous. Okay, so
I think she's calling the police, like, hey, I dated
this guy. You have this going on? This guy is

(01:21:46):
a grief Yeah. Charles revealed to her that he was
kind of a professional con man, and he found out
that he had like a lot of stolen property although
he was married. He convinced this woman to move into
one of his rental propers is, where he would then
come over to bang well. They who said his demands
became weirder until the outright scared her, especially his obsession

(01:22:09):
with knives and eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
No, no, ma'am no.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
She moved out, got married, and moved on with her life,
but remained afraid even years later that Albright would find
her and kill her. The best information that she offered
was that she was aware that Mary Lou Pratt and
Charles Albright had been acquainted. Okay, how she knew that, right,
I don't know, But okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna wait. Okay, I just the whole How do you

(01:22:42):
sex and knives and eyes? I just they don't they
don't go together. I agree that is never should they
go together. But she was like, yeah, that's a note
for me, dog, I getta go fucking wild. Okay. When
officers looked into Speedy's history, it turned out he had
a long criminal record, including a came the conviction for

(01:23:03):
aggravated assault on a child. Not only that, a woman
named Dixie popped up in the records and officers recalled
that Speedy said that that was his wife's name. Yeah.
Detective showed Brenda some of the photos to see if
she could pick out the man who had picked up
and threatened her like the six pack of Yeah pictures.
She looked over the collection and without hesitation, pointed to

(01:23:26):
a photo of Charles Albright. The next step was to
contact Veronica and also show her the pictures. She was
in prison at the time and was it was kind
of described as like difficult to get her to cooperate
for whatever reason, maybe because she's been like yelling about
this thing that happened to her and no one's doing
anything about it, and also she's currently in prison, so
fuck the police. Great. In the end, she also picked

(01:23:49):
out Charles's picture as her attacker. Just four days after
Shirley Williams had been murdered, the police had a warrant
in hand for Charles Albright's arrest, and they also had
like a plan to arrest him at the time thanks
to these women coming forward. He would be charged with
the attempted murder and attempted assault, but they were going

(01:24:10):
to hold him and look for more evidence against him
in the three murders. So I don't know if they
would be able to get an arrest warrant just based
just for the murders, based on the evidence that they add.
So like those women coming forward really yeah, absolutely, that
I would think saved a bunch more women. And but

(01:24:30):
like how scary would it be? Yeah, because then they're like, yo,
if that guy's going to come back to right, if
they decigned not to prosecute or something happens and he
gets out, then like, yeah, that's your neck on the line, right.
So a couple of hours after midnight on March twenty second,
members of the Elite Technical Squad came together and surrounded
Charles Eltwright's oak Cliffe home on Eldorado Avenue. They spotted

(01:24:54):
a station wagon in the driveway similar to the one
described by Brenda, and they called the house to make
sure a mail was inside. A man answered and at
the signal they moved in, a window was smashed, stun
grenades were tossed inside. Albright would later complain about this
procedure and ask why they hadn't just knocked on the door, sir,

(01:25:16):
because you've murdered people, supposedly allegedly others broken through the
door and like got Albright and his wife out of bed.
Dixie began to scream and demand to know what they
were doing, Like could you imagine? Just like no, I
could not. I makes me want to buy pajamas. Somebody

(01:25:38):
I've breaking into my house, and someone brings into your
house you're fighting them naked, I mean not entirely. Charles
and Dixie were brought into the station for interrogation while
the house was searched and police started looking for like
other properties listed under his dead father's name, because he's
living in this house that's in his dad's name. One

(01:25:59):
item of interest found in the home was a collection
of red condoms, the same color, brand or whatever of
the condom found next to Shirley's body. Albright also had
a collection of books about serial killers and some Nazi literature.
The books about serial killers, I'm like, I know I'm
making If you look at the search history on my laptop. Right.

(01:26:23):
But in our defense, we do host a true crime podcast, right.
We do not want to become serial killers. I do
not want that. For me. I can't stand the sight
of blood, so you can barely You could barely stand
talking about it. Literally. Police also recovered the debris from

(01:26:43):
his vacuum cleaner and aquection of guns from his secret
hiding place, which I could not find what the secret
hiding place was. At first, Charles had said that he
did not own any guns, but then he was caught
in a lie and he had to tell them where
to look for him. So I don't know he had
like a Heidi hole at his house or something, guns
or his bed. Yeah. One weapon was a Smith and

(01:27:04):
Wesson forty four caliber revolver, the same type of gun
that they're looking for. Another one of Albright's properties, they
discovered several exact O knives. There's no need for anybody
to own those ever. So you're telling me if I
go out here in your basement, Oh no, I absolutely
have one, Okay, but I have a whole craft room.
Literally never you'll never look at it the same. Again, No,

(01:27:27):
I don't. I literally have had it for years, and
I just don't use it because I don't. It gives
me gross feelings, because what if I slip and then
accidentally slice my finger and then I'm passed out alone
on my babs on floor. And since this video is
not ever going to come out, I think everybody should
know that Sarah's shoulders are up by her ears. She's like,

(01:27:49):
my hands are playing with her hands, she's like cracking
her knuckles. It's up by her face. I don't like blades.
I don't think I am making her very uncomfortable. It's
just that should be like the taglined okay. At the
police station, Detective Wes Felon, from beginning the story questioned Dixie,

(01:28:10):
who was a former widow. So he questioned her first,
and she was just like, could not believe that anyone
would think that her husband would commit such violent crimes.
Said he was an easy going guy, liked by everyone.
She even offered him an alibi. He was in bed
with her every night. Sure he can't put it in
her later, but I'm like, this doesn't count as an

(01:28:30):
alibi if your wife says no, I don't feel like
it should. I don't think O spouses will. I there's
the whole. You can't compel a spouse to testify against
each other or whatever. So he did have an early
morning paper route, but he was always in bed with

(01:28:53):
her when her alarm went off, and so he didn't
do it. It was Dixie, a heavy sleep, maybe the opposite
of me. When confronted with the fact that her husband
had a criminal record, she admitted that she had had
not known about it. His criminal record. Yeah, well, how
long has it been married? I don't know together? Okay,

(01:29:15):
a while.

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
So I'm going to just go with they do not
talk as a couple, because how do you not know
that your husband has a criminal record.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
Well, if your husband doesn't tell you that. This is
in the nineties where it's not like you had easy
access to Google looking that stuff up. Okay. He also
offered no reason why he would have condoms since she
was I guess past menopause, slude, but okay, she had
known about them but had never questioned him. Oh, ma'am,

(01:29:47):
I would be cutting off appendages if iowa, Sarah is
there's lorraina bob of it, because why would you need those? Right?
I kind of wonder if she knew that he was
paying for sex doing and just was like, whatever keeps
him happy and out of my hair, but of my pots. Yeah, right.

(01:30:11):
In the early morning hours, Detective west Villin finally questioned
Charles Albright, who denied knowing any of the murder victims
or any sex workers in general. Right. He refused to
admit that he had anything to do with the murders.
He pointed out that his criminal record was property crimes
and offered a plausible story about the sexual assault conviction.

(01:30:33):
He said that he did know Speedy. Oh, he was
one of his tenants, so I think they had like
a rental property, sure, but he didn't know why his
address was on that guy's driver's license, all right, or
why we looked identical so weird. Later on, Carls Albright's
renter went by. Speedy was questioned because he was maybe

(01:30:54):
with Veronica and knew about the assault. He told believes
that Veronica had never brought Charles Albright to his place,
although they firmly believed that he had. So, I don't
know if, like, they all obviously know each other, right,
because they're they're in the same community, they run in
the same circles. Yeah, they Yeah. Speedy remained a viable suspect,

(01:31:15):
just out of being in that circle. He insisted that
it wasn't Charles that he had saved Roonica from, but
that it was a Hispanic man who he did not know. Oh,
does Charles have a yan or no? Just bad lighting?
Maybe it was bad, I mean ninth nighttime bad lighting. Yeah.
The more investigators learned about Charles Albright, the less certain
they were that they had the right guy. He didn't

(01:31:37):
fit the profile of a serial killer, you know, but
like sometimes those are not fully accurate. Yeah, and he
had alibi. Then I wrote, although, like, does that qualify
as an alibi? Yeah? I know, I don't think so.
Charles had a master's degree, he knew several languages. He

(01:31:59):
was a former sign teacher. He was charming. He was
in what I guess was said to be a satisfying relationship,
although question mark about the condoms question mark question mark.
He seemed completely at ease with having his home searched
and his gun tested. He was not into drugs. Associates

(01:32:20):
who were questioned about him remained loyal, certain that the
police had the wrong man. Albright had coached football, helped
with cub scouts, and was said to be kind to children,
but I have later on, we'll get into that, Okay.
He was also apparently too old at fifty seven. He
defied the stereotype of the angry, young lust killer, who

(01:32:41):
is generally in their twenties or degrees. But I think,
like everybody, this probably has changed over This is in
nineteen ninety, so over the last thirty five years, thank god,
thirty five years. If you could shut that was right,
Not because I did be unharted. I think like our
views of the types of people who commit these crimes
are completely different. Like they're looking for some crazed Richard

(01:33:03):
Chase type guy, not like a Ted Bundy, Which have
we not learned anything from that? No? Well, and it's
like multiple serial killers have led normal or alive right
while also being serial killers. So let's loosen up the
reins on IR profile a little bit, right. So I'm

(01:33:26):
just gonna say this paragraph and now I just kind
of said it. Okay, According to what was then known
about most serial killers, they tended to be loaners and
like quote unquote losers, taking only menial work and not
maintaining relationships for very long. They're considered uneducated, narcissistic, and
often in search of short term gratification. Texas had not

(01:33:49):
seen many serial killers by this point, and the Dallas
police had dealt with zero. They knew from the FBI.
They were just really pulling from the FBI profile as
to what to expect, and Charles's albright did not fit
into that. He claimed officers would not find a woman
who would say he treated her badly.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
Sir, we had one already. She came forward herself.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
No, she was wrong. You asked her to do sex
life hype. All thingis she's mistaken. I don't think he
knew that that she came forward called. Yeah. A few
people did say that he could have a temper and
had once quit a job over a minor convenience. But
like I have raged quit things before too, you know,

(01:34:33):
like just decided I'm done with this. Not actual jobs,
but right projects. He did rage quit that weird we
Ranged book. That's a story for another side. It's a
whole different podcast. Someone said that Charles had commented commented

(01:34:54):
once that he hated sex workers and wanted to kill them.
He was definitely hiring them. That's so so something a
normal person says, like normal everyday run of the male person.
They for sure, talk about how much they want to
kill sex records. Right. It was also found that Dixie
was the main breadwinner in the home. Charles had inherited

(01:35:17):
a substantial amount of money but had blown through it
on sex workers. Lee probably know, so can we say
how Like, sure, he has a master's degree and knows
multiple languages, but he's not utilizing many of that. So no,
he has an early morning paper route, right, probably to
give him access, right, yes, Okay, So police were like,

(01:35:38):
I don't know, man, this guy's not like squeaky clean,
but he's not what any of them expected killer to be, right,
which was kind of a problem if they arrested and
charged the wrong man. The media, which had already really
played up the story a lot, would just like skewer them,
not to mention, also doing that would give the real

(01:35:59):
killer to keep going right or leave the area, yeah
or change yeah, change what they're doing. But looking at
Albert's background from a different angle, even if it is
filled with like his accomplishments, languages, all that stuff, it
still supports the possibility of like a psychopath's diagnosis. According

(01:36:21):
to the Criminal Behavior FBI, people, you know, he could
be looked at as a manipulative, intelligent charmer who lies easily,
exploits others, honors only himself without remorse or harm he
may do to others. These people are like slick, secretive,

(01:36:41):
and even people close to them may be fooled by
their facade. And then I wrote, we all know this guy, right,
should I cut that? Okay? I was also going to say,
so just a man. Maybe I also shouldn't see that,
but yeah, everybody knows. Everybody knows something like, yeah, everybody

(01:37:01):
knows somebody like that, right. Investigators then dug into Charles's childhood.
He was born on August tenth, nineteen thirty three. His
mother Dell and father Fred had adapted him from an
orphans home, and it was clear from the start that
Dell was like in control of the household. Okay, she
was a very strict elementary school teacher. She doted on

(01:37:23):
Charles and was really overprotective of him, but didn't show
like outward affection if that makes sense. Okay, but yeah,
I mean just people of the time really weren't super
affectionate in general. Anyways. It was also reported that she
sometimes dressed Charles as a girl and gave him a
doll to play with, which like I dressed my little

(01:37:44):
brother up in dresses when we were growing up.

Speaker 2 (01:37:48):
But I feel like it is different a sibling doing
it versus a parent, right doing like coming grow up
here and right it's like that they wish they had
that versus what they do have right coming from a sibling,
it's just your sibling.

Speaker 1 (01:38:05):
It was also said that she would change him frequently
to keep the dirt off him, and I can be dirty,
dirty and playing outside, and I wrote not everyone's parents
liked t Lisa with dirty outside kints. I'm pretty sure
you had to step over muddy clothes and when you
came in my house didn't even notice. She also accelerated
his education, getting him skipped ahead two grades, which isn't

(01:38:26):
really a think to do anymore, no, But also speaking,
it's not great for the kid either because just because
they academically, they might be able to do it like social, socially, emotionally,
but no one was thinking about social or emotional anything. Yeah,
that's true. So whatever Charles set out to do, he
did well. When he was given a gun, he killed

(01:38:47):
small animals and told his mother that he wanted to
be a taxidermist. So she helped him learn how to
skin and stuff his dead birds. No, his products were lifelike,
but he was not allowed to complete them with the
glass eyes sold in text surmy shops because they were
too expensive and Dell was pretty frugal. Instead, she had
him use buttons like coraline.

Speaker 2 (01:39:10):
I don't like any of that, but like a A
plus mom for supporting your child interest.

Speaker 1 (01:39:17):
Maybe let's let's push him into another interest. Why are
we just giving him a gun? But also that too?
Like was it like a BB gun? I don't know,
he's killing animals with it, but birds, I mean, I
feel like you could probably kill a bird with a
BB gun. I don't know either way.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
Yeah, we should maybe have more eyes on, Sarah. That's
not how I meant that, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
At age thirteen, he was already a petty thief and
was arrested for aggravated assault. That's a jump, petty thuff
and aggravating. He just got like in a sight and
had okay whatever. At age fifteen, he had graduated from
high school and enrolled at North Texas University. He expressed
an interest in training as a medical doctor and a surgeon.

(01:40:04):
He undertook pre med training but failed to complete it,
maybe because he was fifteen. Right at age sixteen, the
police caught him with some stolen cash, two handguns in
a rifle and he spent a year in jail jail
or what is it use detention center jew Whatever he
at JUTI is what I was trying to think of about.

(01:40:27):
After his release, he attended the Arkansas State Teachers College
and majored in pre med studies. After being found with
stolen items, he was expelled from the college but was
not prosecuted. He went on to falsify a degree. He
stole documents and forged signatures, giving himself a fictitious bachelor's
and master's degrees. He married his college girlfriend and they

(01:40:51):
had a daughter. He continued to forge checks and was
in this while he was teaching high school, and he
was placed on probation in nineteen sixty. He and his
wife separated, and they finally divorced in nineteen seventy four,
which is a really long I mean, they just like
separated and then forgot about each other, probably forret to
file at paperwork. Yeah, Charles failed to hold a job

(01:41:12):
for long, but whatever whatever he did work at, he
reportedly like mastered. Okay, he was a capable person, capable
just like one of those people who pick up a
hobby and like do amazing with it, which is not me.
Look at this hobby. Same. He continued to cheat by

(01:41:35):
forging checks and claiming false credentials, which is how he
got into like everything, being a hairstylist, a carpenter, like
all kinds of what a wild variety of things. Yeah, Oh,
and like teaching, Like okay, I was gonna ask, So
he forged his bachelor's and masters, so it means he
never actually had teaching degree, right, Okay. When he was

(01:41:57):
found out that, like he didn't actually have theseidentials, he
wasn't like really in trouble. He was just fired, let
go put on probation because he was like kind of churman. Yeah.
He was then caught stealing hundreds of dollars worth of
merchandise from a hardware store and received a two year sentence.
He served less than six months before being released. Like

(01:42:19):
now he's out, he's doing whatever wild different job that
he can come up with, and he begain. He'd be gan,
he begained. He began to befriend and gain the trust
of his neighbors. See why that was so hard for
me to say. It's a lot of the same sounds
in there. He was even, I guess, asked by local

(01:42:39):
residents to babysit their children. Nope, no sir, No, no sir.
In nineteen eighty one, while visiting some friends, he molested
their fourteen year old daughter. He was prosecuted, pled guilty,
and received probation for He later said that he was
innocent but had pled guilty to avoid a hassle.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
You a hassle. You literally scarred this girl for the
rest of her life.

Speaker 1 (01:43:07):
No, but he was innocent. It was just a misunderstanding and.

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
Okay, No, I just hate how easily we're getting off
with doing some of some heinous thing.

Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
Yes, and then it's like he thinks he's going to
just talk his way out of right, and yeah, just
just to think that he can get out of it.
For also, little as you met someone anywhere, your new
neighbor or whatever, and they were like, oh, yeah, I
was charged with that, but I just pled guilty to
avoid a hassle. Yeah. I'd be like, no, you, yeah,

(01:43:38):
get the fuck out of your stay away from my children. Yeah.
In nineteen eighty four, he applied to be a leader
in the Boy Scouts of America and was rejected. Thank god,
they they did one thing right. In nineteen eighty five
in Arkansas, Charles met Dixie. So now we're all caught
up on Okay. Also, I just didn't look at any

(01:44:01):
more of that stuff, like moving on to the next Okay,
the murder cases really did seem to be falling apart though,
Like police looked into his background, They're like, yeah, he
seems like kind of a shitty guy, but kind of
not a shitty guy, depending on who you ask. And
we were unable to find really any evidence of the
murders at Albright's house. They didn't find bloody clothes or shoes.

(01:44:23):
They did find some socks and underwear soaking him bleach.
But maybe he just like shoot his pants or something. Right.
We did not turn up any eye balls, no eyeballs. Okay,
his gun did not match the ballistics question from Mary
Lou and Shirley. They found the gun that they found

(01:44:46):
in his house the ballistic suit match. Also, Dixie gave
police receipts from like mechanic shops to show that their
cars had been broken down and were not available at
the time of the first two murders. Okay, both cars
broke it down, time being okay, just bad luck. We
will we'll see what what else comes out. There was

(01:45:08):
circumstantial evidence that they could use, and they were able
to hold him on charges of attempted murder while they
were going. So this whole time, he's still being held. Okay,
I say a minimum minimum.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
Can we not prosecute him for the assault and say
because there were two women, correct that he had assaulted?

Speaker 1 (01:45:28):
Yeah, okay. So they went to Speedy's house because he
was a renter. Yeah, Charles owned the property, and they
found like a stash of porn magazines and a structure
that allowed for the practice of auto erotic sphyxia. Okay,
t he's tying up tie up people for himself. So

(01:45:50):
as a landlord, Charles had a key, so they looked
for evidence that he had used this place when Speedy
was away. I remember he said like that weird thing
about like Ronica has never brought him over here before,
which to me kind of sounds like when my kids
are lying about something right and they accidentally give too
much information. So Veronica had also mentioned this place and
Officer Matthews believed that Charles came here to carry out whatever,

(01:46:14):
like he was picking up women and bringing them here,
So he and Speedy probably had a dela and runt
as long as I can bring whatever sex worker back
and do whatever and then right. But also at the
same time, like you found porn in a man's.

Speaker 2 (01:46:29):
I know this sos just that the drapchen for fifty asphyxiation.

Speaker 1 (01:46:37):
That is a little more out there. Yeah, but it
wasn't said that any of the women had choked, ben
choked or had marks on them like that. But it
maybe it was for himself, we don't know. There was
also evidence from hair analysis. The police had confiscated blankets
from Albright Albright's truck and sent them to Charlie Lynch
in the lab along with the debris from his vacuum.

(01:47:01):
The blankets had so they both had hair and fibers,
and in the vacuum they found some hair that was
consistent with Shirley Williams. There were not enough streths to
perform any type of DNA analysis that was used at
the time, like this is nineteen ninety right. Charls agreed

(01:47:24):
to let police take hair and blood samples from him,
and Lynch soon called Detective west Fillin to tell him
that chair found on one of the bodies was consistent
with Charles Albright's hair samples. In addition, hair found on
the blankets from a truck appeared to match the hair
from a sex workers. Okay, share is not considered class evidence,

(01:47:44):
Like it's not unique evidence like we've yelled about before. Yeah,
it can be consistent with but it's not proven be
from that person. Nevertheless, on March twenty six, the District
Attorney filed capital charges against Charles Albright and the deaths
of of Mary Lou Pratt, Charlie Williams, and Susan Peterson.
The court appointed bred Lawler as Charles Albright's attorney. So

(01:48:09):
then they had a woman come forward saying on December thirteenth,
the same night that Mary Lou Pratt had been killed,
this woman named Mary Beth, had been standing outside a motel.
Said suddenly a man grabbed her, put a knife to
her throat, and forced her into a car while hitting
her in the face. She tried to struggle but had
been unable to fight him, and she remembered that he

(01:48:31):
had driven her out to a field and thrown her
onto a blanket. There. She said, he just kept hitting
and punching her, so it was hard to see, yeah,
exactly where they were. She said that he then opened
some kind of case and she'd seen that it had
a collection of sharp pointed blades like a scalp I'm

(01:48:54):
picturing like a doctor's surgical kid like scalpolds and stuff.
And she said he reached for one of the sharp
pointed blades and used it to cut open her shirt.
He then discarded the blade and got another one to
make another cut. At that point, she said, she passed
out from fear and when she came to, he was gone.

(01:49:14):
That's like light fight freeze. That's like the extreme freeze. Yes,
with this story, investigators believed they could find more, so
they set out like interviewing other people in the area
that she was at that night. A woman named Tina
also had a story to tell. She said that she
had regularly been with Charles Albright. For the most part,

(01:49:38):
he had been polite and good to her until the
last time that they had like quote unquote gone. How
she said it like they were going on dates. So
said they had been in his truck and he had
been a lot rougher than usual, and that she like
jumped out of the truck and ran from him like
he was tech her.

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
Now, yeah, it's not as sexual encounter. It's in assaults, right, So.

Speaker 1 (01:50:05):
She'd run from him and had seen him again on
the night that Shirley had been murdered, so he was
like in the area. She said Charles had driven by them,
but Tina had gotten into another car, so she didn't
actually witness Charles picking Charley up, just that he was
in the area, in the area, and then Charlie was gone.
She showed police where She showed police a field where

(01:50:28):
Albright had often taken her, and that search turned up
an old blue blanket, some condoms, and a crumpled yellow
raincoat just like the one that Charlie had been wearying. Okay,
the raincoat did have blood on it, and this was
obviously a significant fine. Also, a man named Willie Upshaw
was tracked down through some checks that Charles had written

(01:50:49):
to him. He was serving time for the illegal possession
of a firearm, and he said that Charles had another
forty four caliber weapon that the police had not found.
They discovered that he had purchased it in his father's name,
but unless they found the weapon, they really couldn't prove anything,
but just it being missing was subjective possibly out there. Yeah,

(01:51:13):
so these murders were he was being charged with these
three murders, but then they also added an unsolved nineteen
eighty eight stabbing murder of an oak Cliffe area sex
worker based on several strings of hair found that were
consistent with Albright's. Her eyes had not been removed. But

(01:51:34):
thinking of like escalation and right and all that stuff, well,
Charles did come up with an alibi for that one.
He said he was out of town, so that charge
was eventually dropped. Okay, given the type of evidence available.
The grand jury reduced the capital murder charges to murder,
so the death penalty was off the table, and eventually

(01:51:55):
the District Attorney's office settled on prosecuting Albright for just
one murder, the murder of Chirleie Lambs. The articles were
all like and police didn't explain why they would choose
to do that, but I think it's because they had
more witnesses that Shirley left the area with him and
him picking up women in that area. Her bloody ringcoat

(01:52:15):
was found in the field that he was now attached
to by bringing Yeah, I think her name was Tina too,
So yeah, there's there's more evidence to support a guilty
verdict than that that case versus the other two unrig Also,
separating the murder charges makes sense because if he's found
not guilty on that one, they can potentially find more

(01:52:37):
evidence in the arians. Bail had been set at three
million dollars, but was later dropped to seven hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. Curls couldn't afford that, so he remained
in prison, thank god. The trial was set for December second,
nineteen ninety one, and it was decided that the other
cases could be brought in and talked about by the prosecution,

(01:53:00):
which is surprising. Yeah. On December seventh, Special Agent jud
Ray testified about the linkage analysis and the fact that
the killer would have been comfortable in and familiar with, oh,
the Oak Cliff area, So basically saying, like, we link
these cases this way, right, the killer would be familiar

(01:53:22):
and not stick out in this area. Then he also
so in many different sources he's quoted as saying this
in trial. What was interesting to us was the method
in which these victims, these body parts were taken. In
my professional opinion, it's doubtful that you would have more
than one person that deranged living in the city, which
I'm like unnecessary, right, yeah, like, yeah, there's just multiple

(01:53:47):
killers running around just thinking to do the same thing. Okay.
So as I'm like laughing about it, I'm wondering if
the point he was trying to make was that, like Shirley's,
while Shirley's attack and heard, the way her eyeballs were
taken out was more brutal than the other ones, maybe
some people would have a hard to end she was
black and the other ones were white, Right, maybe it

(01:54:09):
would be difficult in some people's minds to link them together.
I'm with him, like, how many people do you think
are out here taking eyeballs? Right, it's going to be one.
It should be zero. It should always be zero. Okay.
The prosecution suffered several blows. The yellow raincoat worn by
Williams when she disappeared had inadvertently been thrown away, although

(01:54:32):
the jury had gotten to see it, so somewhere in
the somewhere the trial, Yeah, it accidentally got tossed. Willie
Upshaw had changed his story. Albright's neighbors supported the fact
that he didn't have a car during the time of
the murder, and Veronica decided to testify for the defense

(01:54:52):
against her original story. She now said that Charles Albright
had never done anything to her and that she would
not be shaken from that position. So she was scared
he was going to get out and kill her. She
said police bullied her into saying that her attacker was
Charles Albright, But I think, yes, she was probably scared
that he was going to get out. Yeah, and it's

(01:55:13):
not him, like he seemed to be pretty close with
the speedy guy that had his address on his license
and right all the porn in his apartment. Part of
the proceedings and the evidence to me is like controversial
because it's the hair stuff. Yeah. So Charlie Lynch, the

(01:55:33):
lab guy, discussed the analysis of the hair samples and
his findings were eight hairs that met Shirley Williams hair
came from Albright's vacuumer Okay. Six of William's hair. Charley
Williams hairs came from the blue blanket round on the
Oak Cliff field with the yellow raincoat. Three pubic hairs
from the blanket matched Charles Albright's and a head hair

(01:55:55):
on the raincoat also matched his. His pubic hair also
matched a strand of hair lifted from Churley's neck. Albright's
head hair was found near a wound on Shirley's face,
another on her back, and two on her left hand.
That motherfucker's shudding. Yeah, a dog like that is, remember

(01:56:16):
you said that, I know? Okay. Three headhairs from Susan
Peterson were on the blanket in Albright's truck, as were
four hairs likely to be from Mary Luke Pratt. Okay.
A squirrel hair was found in the vacuum on the
blanket picked up in the field. Okay. In addition, Speedy's
hair did not match any of these samples. Okay. Lynch

(01:56:39):
had matched Albright to the fourth murdered sex worker, the
unsolved one that had been dropped, but with Albright having
an ALBI, this kind of put a dent in the
testimony on how specific hair analysis was right. So Albright's
defense attorney, Brad Lawler, tried to convince the jury that
the case against Albright depended on the flimsiest circumstantial evidence.

(01:57:01):
The killer, he said, was probably Speedy, who had conveniently
skipped down the week of the trial. Admittedly, police had
made had many unanswered questions about Speedy. Detective west Flint
had spent hours interrogating him, trying to determine if he
had assisted Carls in any of the murders, but there

(01:57:22):
was nothing to tie him to the case except for
I guess an empty forty four caliber bullet box found
behind the house, which they were saying that Charles might
have dropped there himself, like he had access to the property.
Both Speedy and Charles's photos were shown to dozens of
sex workers, and none recognized Speedy, but many recognized Charles. Okay, also,

(01:57:47):
so they're like, we didn't find any of his hair.
None of the sex workers recognized him. Whatever. No one
that police questioned about Speedy said that they could imagine
him having the slightest skill required to perfectly move a
set of human eyeballs. Of course, speeding, which is like
a wild sentenced. Yeah, like, just Speedy's not the guy.

(01:58:08):
The defense did bring in a microscopist and small particles
expert named Samuel James Pilneck, so it was kind of
like the answer to the FBI lab guy. Yeah, we've
got some dueling experts. Although up until the trial he'd
actually reportedly agreed with Charles Lynch, he changed his mind

(01:58:30):
and he at the trial he said that Lynch's analysis
of the hair fragments was sloppy and not conclusive enough
to make the claims that Carls was Carls Karls Lynch
was making. The hair samples were too fragmentary. Fragmentary, he
said some that Charles Lynch claimed were human were actually animal,
and the gray hairs had lacked pigment, which made them

(01:58:53):
difficult to match. Under cross examination, this guy undermined his
own credibility when he said that if he had another
week or two, his findings might have changed. He also
re examined the evidence and came back in agreement with
Lynch on several specimens. Okay, so they just don't agree
on some of them, but he's also he's saying that

(01:59:14):
some of them are animal hair, right, And like, by
when I got to this point, was like, I don't
like that this is all about to be based on hair. Yeah,
I agree. I don't know how to feel about it
because I feel like there's no evidence. Besides, he said,

(01:59:36):
she said I saw him there allegedly, right whatever. But
after a day of deliberation, on December eighteenth, the jury
returned their verdict. Charles Albright was found guilty of Shirley
Williams's murder. He received a sentence of five years to life.
In his attorney immediately promised to appeal. Right the defense

(01:59:56):
insisted that an innocent man had been convicted. Charles Albright
was sent to the clements unit of the Texas Department
of Corrections in Amarillo. Don't know what the clements unit is,
that's where he was sent, Okay, So they appealed the
case based on lack of evidence against him and for murder,
he said. The lawyer said that the trial court had

(02:00:18):
erred in not conducting separate hearing on punishment, so they
did they didn't have like a separate sentencing here. In
nineteen ninety four, the Texas Court of Appeals published an
opinion in which they dismissed Albright's first point of error,
saying that the palant had provided nothing review on the

(02:00:40):
second issue. So they were just like, we're just pretending, no,
that issue wasn't there. They said, like the issue had
not been raised in court. I guess which must matter. Sure,
I'm not a lawyer. Just pretend to you want. I'm
not a lawyer, but I am very judgmental. Okay. So
they said that the judge gave the sense after Albert's

(02:01:01):
attorney agreed that there was no reason not to. Oh, okay,
So then that makes sense why they would go forward
that way. Yeah. The final sentence of the published opinion
was quote, we uphold the trial court's judgment. Okay. So
Skip Hollinsworth from Texas Monthly visited Charles in prison and
came out with the opinion that Charles was deceptive, charming, manipulative,

(02:01:22):
and without self insight or remorse. I don't know if
you've ever read any of Skip Hollinsworth's stuff. I think
I've used him, Yeah, I so far, very lengthy detailed articles.
I think.

Speaker 2 (02:01:34):
I don't know if I've read myself, but I do
remember you talking about his work, research, writings, articles, words.

Speaker 1 (02:01:49):
He indicated then the okay. So In this article, Skip
Hollinsworth says that Charles had appealed to Barry Schneck's Innocence
Project for assistance, but his case didn't involved like DNA testing,
so the instance project didn't get involved. So CARLS. Albright
died on August twenty second, twenty twenty, in prison. His

(02:02:12):
lawyers claimed that the hairs found and used in his
trial were dog hair. Did anybody have a dog? We
heard dimension? I heard no mention of dogs, But I
only saw that in one article, and then other articles
cited that one article. Yeah, So, like, I don't know
if that guy was just saying that because that one
microscopist person said that they were animal hairs, right, So

(02:02:38):
I have a hard time with him being found guilty
based on the evidence. Yeah, but the murders stopped after
he went to prison. That was I was going to say,
like there were no more murders, There were no more,
no more missing eyeballs, like right, there were stories of
him about him in college decorating his dorm room with
cut out eyeballs from like magazines and stuff like cutting

(02:03:00):
the eyes out of pictures of his ex you know.
And then there's the whole texadermy stuff from his childhood.
What do you think he took the eyeballs because his
mom wouldn't let him have eyeballs for his taxidermy as
a child. I don't know, there's gonna be a link
to eyeballs somewhere for him. So when I found this case,

(02:03:21):
I was like, I have shelldis Like I said, it's
I started taping it up before I knew how it ended.
And there is literally I recently watched an old Criminal
Minds episode where this guy is killing people and taking
their eyeballs out put in his text urmy stuff that
he's selling to people, okay, And so the whole time
I'm typing this up, I was like, this is real.
So that's why I was like, am I accidentally doing

(02:03:44):
a criminal case right now? But there's no He maintained
his innocence for the rest of his life, and there
was no explanation for the eyeballs. But also again the
killing dead stuff once he was arrested, like, there were
no more from that point on, and he was in

(02:04:05):
the area and linked. The only reason they found the
raincoat was because he had brought another woman to that
area and attacked her and she got away. Yeah, so
I do think that holds credibility. I just think, like
with heart, I'm glad that they took the death penalty
off the table, I guess, yeah, because there was no
real concrete Yeah, I wish I did. They're like, obviously

(02:04:29):
they didn't feel the need to go back and look
for the other murders, like once technology advanced, because he
was already behind bars for the one and he's most
likely not getting out. Well, he didn't get out, But
this is definitely a case that I wish like once
technology had advanced, that they had looked back into it
to like and I think that they would have it

(02:04:51):
if DNA had been part of his original trial. Sounds
like the Innocence Project might have been picked it up. Yeah,
and then we'd have more answers. But yeah, yeah, because
it doesn't even really tie in a sexual aspect of it,
you know what I mean, because you know they were
sex workers. He was he was at some point having

(02:05:12):
sex with sex workers, but it doesn't really show or
tie in like like why aren't you taking eyeballs right?

Speaker 3 (02:05:21):
Like?

Speaker 1 (02:05:21):
They have many questions that will never get answered. Unfortunately,
not my sources were the Crime Library had a lot
of information written up by Catherine Ramsland and Gina mala Testa,
the Texas Monthly article by Skip Hollinsworth. There was a
Ranker article and audacity dot Com is I guess like

(02:05:44):
a local Dallas news radio station. They had several articles
on it.

Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
I feel like when we first started this podcast, I
came across this case and then I know if to
write the fuck out of it. But I think that's
why it sounded slightly familiar to me. Okay, the name,
but it's because I like, I skimmed and then noped out.

Speaker 1 (02:06:09):
I love that you skimmed and noped out, and I
skimmed and I was like, I must know more. There
was it was a note for me dog so but yeah,
I didn't obviously did not know even partial part of it.
I just like the name sounded familiar, the media name
given sounded familiar.

Speaker 2 (02:06:28):
But beyond that, it was a nope for me, not
for me. Yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:06:35):
That's one that like if I just had a crystal ball,
I'd be like and we could do anything. Like That's
one of the like a case that I would wish
like we could have more information on, just to know
like the details, right, because that technically there are still
two murdered women who were untechnically unsolved, because I think
they closed those cases with with their attachment attached and connected.

(02:07:01):
I also just think that like the women that came
forward to talk about how they were attacked, saved a
lot of Yeah, absolutely a lot of lives, and yeah,
deserve for their story to be told, and also that
they were comfortable enough with the police that were trolling
the area, like whatever they were doing in the nineties

(02:07:24):
in that area, they were doing it right, right.

Speaker 2 (02:07:27):
Yeah, I mean I multiple times and you rarely see
it multiple times. I said, A plus police work for
just doing the right things, following the right steps.

Speaker 1 (02:07:39):
But yeah, huh, eyeballs, eyeballs. So anyway, that's my case
for this week thing. You're welcome. I hate it. Yeah,
that's it's a wild one. See, I don't know how

(02:08:00):
so put it, because it's just because there's there's still
so many loose ends and that's always very strating for me. Yeah,
all right. You can find us on a wee said.
You can find us on social media. Just find us
on the social find us on the social media.

Speaker 2 (02:08:15):
You can find us on Facebook at The Ship Show,
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x TikTok YouTube at the Shit Show TCP.

Speaker 1 (02:08:27):
You can email us at Shit SHOWTCP at gmail dot com,
case suggestions, let us know how Sarah fucked up, could
never be me. Educate me further on Mormonism and parts
I fucked up on. It's purely out of curiosity fascination.
I will not be converting. I will not be don't

(02:08:47):
come to my house. You can please subscribe to us
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follow us up everywhere, and share us with your friends.
That's all we have for this week. Thanks for listening.
Hey bye, hey bye,