70. Virgina Rappe

This week, Sarah dives headfirst into the tragic and twisted story of Virginia Rappe—the woman at the center of Hollywood’s first big scandal. Was it a murder? Was it just the worst party ever? And seriously... who the hell trusts a hotel doctor?

Buckle up for Prohibition-era drama, shady medical calls, and the kind of courtroom chaos only 1920s America could deliver.

🔪 True crime meets half-assed history, with all the sarcasm and none of the credentials.
🎧 Rate, review, and tell your favorite problematic silent film actor we’re watching them.

Check out our sweet new website here!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, I'm te Lisa and I'm Sarah. Welcome to the
shit show. I have asked True Crime Podcast now that
my microphone is in front of my face.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yes, I was gonna say where you need it, but
that's pretty obvious.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
So how is it going? It's great.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, we are almost to spring break, which I'm very
much looking forward to.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, we were almost a spring break. Sarah's leaving me.
I'm devastated. I mean, you can join us, me and
all of my rowready children. Yeah, we and my two dogs.
Strap the extra children to the top of the car. Maybe.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
I don't know how we're gonna make it because we're
taking my car and Remy's create takes.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Up the entire Yeah, hatch back. What do you call it?
It's a shrunk suv? Did I still call it a trunk?
I always just say the back of the car. So
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
But yeah, me, my husband, my kid, and our cat
and dog are all going to be taking twelve hour
drive together to go visit my family for spring break,
which will be I'm very excited to do.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I'm very not excited about the car ride.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Can keeps saying that I should have just gotten a
plane ticket and flown home and then he would drive
with everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
But we don't take him up on that. No, my
brain will not allow me to do so because I
would feel like, shit, I've done that one time before.
But that's because I had to fly home sooner than
they did, sooner than we had planned to come home.
And then he drove up a couple days later, and
I was an anxious mess because I am a control freak. Well,

(01:44):
and that was when Connor was a lot younger. Yeah,
he was like probably four at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
And I don't know, it's weird because I'm like being
a stay home mom. I'm like the default parent. I'm
the one that like, oh, he made this noise that
means he wants this. Yeah, I mean he could clearly
talk at that point, but you know what I mean,
and like it's just second nature for me, so like
giving that up and like he's obviously my husband's extremely
capable of doing so, but I still don't like it.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
So yeah, but yeah, I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
We're going to be celebrating Savannah's twenty first birthday, my
little sister. It's on Easter, Like it's the same day's
Easter this year, and I'm from southern Illinois, So how
to celebrate a twenty first birthday in a state that
I don't think sells alcohol on a Sunday?

Speaker 1 (02:26):
You buy the alcohol on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yes, problems, but we have all called the bowling allie
multiple times, so we've just settled on we're going to
take your bowling and get her smashed to bowling. So yeah,
that's uh, that's my plans coming up.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Fun. Yeah, So with that being said, we are So
last week we would have record or not recorded, we
didn't record. Sarah had a sick household and yeah, I've
got all that and I've got all of my bullshit
going on. So we were both kind of stressed out
and decided to skip a week of recording. Yeah, so
last week was a re release of something, and now

(03:02):
for this week, we're going to do one case. Yes,
we didn't discuss who's doing what yet, so we'll figure it.
We'll all figure it out together. Yeah, we are doing
one case this week and then one case next week,
so we'll you'll still get an episode, just one case
down each week because hw, we're stressed out.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, We've got We've got we have a few things
going on right now in our personal lives. So but
it's fine, we're pushing forward things I don't even like.
I am so scared demon sday that things look are
like starting to look up a little bit, because then
I feel.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Like it's not going to happen.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
So I am hesitantly optimistic. I guess about what's to
come in the next I don't know a few weeks
to a month or so.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I'm just holding my breath and like white knuckling it
through life right now. So yeah, pure survival mode for
the last like I don't know since I've been born
on it. Yeah, what'd you say when we walked in here?
You were like, Okay, so I've been in like survival
mode for my whole life. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Basically, if you ask my nervous system, it will absolutely
agree with that.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Backs that up for sure.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
But yeah, I can't remember if I had anything else,
So I'll go over stend so that and I can
listen to yours. Well, I can listen to yours either way.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
I was gonna say, are you not gonna listen? If
I know? I always don't? Okay, Also, real quick, Sarah
got a new computer.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
I did finally did I explain why. Yeah, but yeah,
I talked about it last time that recorded that. Like
it literally like old school black and white white static
screen on me and I full on panic because I
was in the middle of researching case when that happened.
And Captain immediately was like I'm like, oh my fucking God,
because he was outside and I sent him the same
picture I sent you. And then next thing I know,

(04:41):
he's coming in the house. He's like, I'm gonna order
the new MacBook. Uh and it's blue.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay, Like I'm like, because it's so much money, but yeah,
I guess so. But yeah, it was very needed.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
I'm still getting used to it, and I mean it
functions obviously prote the same, but it's so much bigger
than my other one.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Was so like fan see that stresses me out. I know,
it's got like a.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Little Okay, this is what I will say. I will
bitch about Apple for this. It doesn't have a fucking
touch screen, and that I love. My My computer has
a touch screen so I can just scroll with my
finger all day.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Okay, Well, Connor's school computer, which I've been Yeah, basically
i've been we've been home bound I've been the one
teaching him, so like I'm on that constantly.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
So now after I got this, I like keep trying
to touch my screen and I'm like, it doesn't fucking work.
But it does have this nifty little button here that
I can fingerprint and open my computer without having to
type in the password things Apple pretty like, how the
fuck can you not put a touch screen in?

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I don't know. I really enjoyed, but that one time
I had to use your computer because I was a
dumbass and forgot mine. Oh yeah, I kept trying to
do the same thing and I was like, I can't
handle this. We have to quit. Sorry, in this podcast
over but yeah, so Sarah's gonna go this time, and
then you guys are gonna have to wait to listen
to my bullshit next week. I forgot. I'm not gonna
ask questions about what yours is because I forgot when

(05:58):
I told you what it was. I know, but I forgot.
So I'm gonna be excited and two hours when you go,
when you're like, oh this is what mine's a belot Okay,
I am going to tell you an old timey Hollywood Okay.
So yeah, oh I remember Okay, I remember the conversation
that we had. Now I don't.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
I mean I barely do, all right, So I am
telling you about I forgot how to say her look
up how to say your last name starting out strong.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
I'm just I'm just gonna send it.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Virginia Rappy was born to Mabel Wrap on July seventh,
eighteen ninety one, in Chicago, Illinois. Yes, you said their
last names were different. Yes, nope, they were there different.
You were different than the articles. So Virginia's is Rippe, okay,
And for some reason, her mother's was RiPP and I'm

(06:45):
pretty sure I saw that in more than one place.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
So I'm like, okay, I'm pregnant. Whatever.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Maybe she wanted to look she had more fee for Hollywood,
and I'm never gonna know how to say it because
I had never looked it up.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
So beautiful, all right.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
So Mabel was a sometimes girl who had no husband
or father for her daughter.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
You know what, That's okay with me?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Like I understand, like all of the articles I'm reading
like they're talking about old timey so like that's you know,
they're talking about the same way it would be viewed then.
But like, so what nobody cares, so I just said that.
So anyways, Virginia had a pretty rough childhood. Her mother
Maybel died when Virginia was just eleven years old, and she,

(07:27):
like I said, didn't know her father. So that left
Virginia to live with her grandma. Okay, no grandpa ned
mentioned wonderful. We were just a line of ladies without men,
I guess, all right, So around the age of fourteen,
sixteen or eighteen, depending on which article you would like
to go with, because again kind of old timey, Virginia
began working as a model for fashion shows at like

(07:49):
department stores. Virginia became one of the first women to
make it living from this new profession at the time. So,
like I guess, at the time that she started becoming
a model, like it was a pretty new profession for
women to be in. Okay, and again I'm saying ages,
but I do think they are like loosely. So somewhere

(08:09):
in her teens, she's said, yeah, So that's so somewhere
in her early to mid twenties, so is the next
move for her. So by possibly twenty five, Virginia had
had enough for success as a model to move to
San Francisco in nineteen sixteen San Francisco. Virginia continued to
succeed in her career, both as a model and a
dress designer. So Virginia had created her own clothing designs

(08:32):
as early as in nineteen fourteen, and even had her
designs exhibited in the nineteen fifteen World's Fair. One article said,
quote a young woman who has lifted fashion designing to
the plane of fine art, and reference to Virginia's designs.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Did I look those dresses up? Yes? I did, and
I yeah, okay, Virginia rappy. Well, she's very old Hollywood.
I should probably put dresses in their rebably images just
made a weird noise. I'm not seeing any of her. Yeah,
I'm not really either. She loved some big hats, okay,

(09:08):
So I'm going to assume that they were just wonderful and.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's all I mean to be. Rota writtena wrote and Wroteena,
what did I just say? To be written about? You know?
And the way that she was It does sound like
she It was during this time that Virginia had a
short lived relationship with Robert mus Kowitz, who was also
addressed designer. Virginia had modeled for Robert, and it is
said that he fell in love with her. The pair

(09:32):
did become engaged, but sadly, Robert was killed in a
trolley car accident. I did try to look it up.
I could not find anything.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
A trolley car accident is a very what are we
nine and sixteen? You said, ish, Yeah, the very nineteen
sixteen Hollywood, California. Way to die, right, I know it.
I'm surprit like.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
I did try to look it up because I'm like, okay,
but there's like, what is a trolley car accident?

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Did you get hit by the trolley car? Did like
he fall off of the trolley car? It is moving,
you know what I mean? Like right, maybe he was
trying to catch it, like he was late for it
and he's like running next to it and then got
sucked under a wheel. I don't know either way. I
mean whatever it was was bad enough that it did
kill him. Yeah, that sucks, as we were just making
light of it or I'm gonna cut that no, But

(10:17):
I mean like it is like it is a very
like of the times. Yeah, way to go.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
So after Roberts untimely does, Virginia decided to move to
Los Angeles to pursue acting. They're in La Virginia. Worked
for film director Fred J.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Ball Fred J. Balls, b A L. S h o
f e Er ball Shaver.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Okay, all right, so I'm not the only one seeing
ball Shoffer. I am so sorry, Fred, I don't know
how to say your name. I'm just gonna start picking
cases that are like.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Why are we so mature? So? How is that a last? Well?
Maybe he he is the great great grandfather of whoever
founded Jillette Razors. He the founder of manscaping. Yes, I
was also trying to remember that, but the name.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
No, he's just a film director that we've created a
side quest for him.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, with the last name like that, I feel like
you have to this be into the manscaping scene somehow.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
I really should just start looking up how to say names?
Am I ever going to no?

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Because then we can't laugh about him. Yeah, I still
don't even know. Okay, I'm moving on. I would have
to hold on. We can cut this. But b A
A L. S h of Er all shot? See all right, okay,
if we gotta move on. So.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Virgina starred in Paradise Garden, which was a silent film
in nineteen seventeen with Harold Lockwood. A pointless side note.
Have you ever watched a silent film?

Speaker 1 (11:47):
I don't think I could.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
I don't think I could either like After because obviously
it was like the era of silent films, but like, mentally,
I do not think I could handle that.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
I take situations like when people watching which because Hi,
I'm a creep and just like make up scenarios like
mister ball Shaver, I just gave him a whole new
life right watching a silent phone and be like, oh,
I bet they're thinking this and like whatever. But I
think I would just get distracted and miss the plot absolutely,
like I need. This is why, like we haven't released

(12:17):
any actual, like real videos, because I need like the
sound the audio to match the movements and like mouths
moving and stuff like that. Suicide Squad, no Squid Games.
The Squid Games don't because it was originally filmed in
Japanese or something and then they voiced over whatever people.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
People are losing their fucking mind and it came out Yeah,
and you have to know about not tell me you
are neurotypical without telling me. If you can watch that
c it, I know I would not be able to like,
even when we just play a TV show on, like
we're streaming something, if the words don't match up, neither
of us can watch.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Like, we'll listen, but then we busy ourselves so that
you're like scrolling on your phone.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, because if I look up and I see that
the words are not matching the mouth, I.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Don't know what happens to like my attention, I just
can't do it. Same And then I'm not absorbing any
of the information because I'm like.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Trying to Yeah, yeah, okay, same, Sorry, another little side
quest there. So by nineteen nineteen, Virginia had appeared in
over a dozen films, even receiving an award for the
quote best Dressed Girl in Pictures.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Okay, is there a best Stressed man in pictures? Or no,
that's just for women. Do we have a best stressed
boy in pictures? Well? They say girl. Yeah, that tries
me fucking it.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
They're multiple times, like I think I even like there
are times that I saw and I'm like, I'm not
putting that in here. She was a lady, a woman whatever,
not a fucking girl. Like she is well into adulthood
at this point, right, It's not like she's fourteen, right, No.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
She's in a child after.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
She's now into her twenties, has been in a dozen films,
and we're gonna say best stress girl.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Fuck you, fuck you history, all right.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
So she had also started dating director and producer Henry
learn Men.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Oh no, that's an age. That's I scrolled too far.
It's lure men.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
I cut the top of my age off so it
looked like an N because I scrolled.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Not bad.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
And by nineteen twenty, Virginia was once again engaged and
had moved in with Henry and they were planning to
get married. So Virginia made headlines all throughout her career
by being at the forefront of proto feminist causes. I
had to look that up because I had never heard
that term. Yeah, so basically she just challenged gender roles

(14:39):
and advocated for women's rights, equality and tom many thank
you Google, because I did not know what that was. Well,
obviously feminist was in it, so I had an ida
of it, but I didn't know like why proto was
new to me in that contexts. Anyhow, Virginia did so
by posing in tuxedos for an article titled equal Clothes

(14:59):
Rights with men, which encouraged women to quote be original.
Every girl can be that again, every girl. That's coming
from her though, right whoever wrote the article? Oh I
thought maybe that was a quote from her. No, that
was just a quote from the article that she posed for.
Oh okay, all right, So Virginia was a young successful
Hollywood star. On September twenty one, Lowell Sherman and Fred

(15:25):
Fishback were throwing a party over the Labor Day weekend.
So Fred promised his friend Fatty our book, a weekend
filled with booze women and general de bacri. As the
Medium article put it, is it our book or our buckle?
It is our buckle? I should have thank you, You're welcome?

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Is our buckle?

Speaker 2 (15:44):
I don't know, I just forgot the l apparently, So,
even though the prohibition was like in full force, Fred
was still able to bootleg like a case of gem
or something like that. Okay, yeah, So the men reserved
three rooms at the State Francis Hotel in San Francisco,
and those were rooms nineteen or No. Twelve nineteen, twelve,

(16:05):
twenty and twelve twenty one. That'll play and later if
I remember to put the numbers in.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Za I'm not gonna remember them, but you can tell
me later. Again, that's if I remember.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
So Virginia and her friend Bambina mod Delmont, who went
by mod Bina.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, hell yeah, Like why would you not go buy
that name if you had it? I don't know. Maybe
she was sick of people calling her Bambi or something.
Probably was Bambi the movie a thing that no pelsa
cut us. I would assume not, since we're like some
of those old cartoons are like really fucking old. Yeah,
I don't remember when that one came out. I feel like,

(16:42):
not that really what you're doing we are.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Now in nineteen twenty one.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Probably not, Yeah, he was to say it. Don't know.
Maybe Bambi wasn't an Maybe she just hated that name. Maybe.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
I mean, I'm sure people found ways to people make
fun of everything or make like nicknames for everything. So
I'm sure that is a name that people would probably make,
you know, yeah, nicknames for So, you know, Virginia and
her friend who goes by Maud arrived at the party
at ten thirty am, Like.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Whoa Harley Birds right, we're d adreas.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
We are getting into it early. So the friends were
accompanied by Virginia's manager. Als minute, sure, he's going to
go by al for the rest of this time. Okay,
So ten minutes later more people joined the party, including
showgirl Zev Hivron and Alice Blake. So this is just
to kind of give an idea of like who was
coming to the party. You know, more actors and actresses,

(17:38):
people in the show business. Basically that's the type of
party it was. So Virginia knew who Fatty was, and
he was a longtime friend of Virginia's fiance Henry. But
Virginia didn't care for Fatty, which I'm going to get
into him in a minute, and why he's called Fatty,
which it feels like it's going to be a rude
reason it is, but it's sadly stuck and he went

(17:59):
by that, So I didn't know how else to address
him since like.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
That's how he's known. Yeah, so I don't I don't
like it. I probably like to like it.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Took it took me a long time to get into
this case, like over a week. I've just like I'd
pick it up and I'd be like, I hate this,
put it back down.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
You might also hate it by the.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
End Okay, great, Okay, where it so like I was
saying Virgina didn't really care much for Fatty. Henry would
later say that Virginia found Fatty revolting and didn't care
for his crude and classless behavior. So by me saying
I'm getting into Fatty's character, it's literally.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
My next the say it sounds like there's hanging out
like frat boys, and.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Well, I mean it's like Hollywood and like you don't
show biz. Yeah, look at how the Hollywood parties go.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Now, I don't want to be invited to anything. Never.
Don't invite me ever to any of our very famous listeners. Yeah,
any of you guys out there in California listening. No,
thank you for the Hollywood invite? Yes? Agree?

Speaker 2 (19:00):
All right, So a little backstory on Fatty because he's
obviously going to play a big role. Like I said, so,
Fatty was born Roscoe Cunkling our Buckle on March twenty fourth,
eighteen eighty seven, and Smith Center, Kansas.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Roscoe was such a better name than the nickname Fatty.
That stinks that you're stuck with that.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, because I feel like Roscoe would be like
a great Hollywood actor name yeah, like yeah, and he
played like the comedian role as well, So like you know,
I think that I don't know. So his parents were
Mary and William, and they got the shock of a
lifetime when Fatty was born wing and at thirty again
depending on which article, thirteen to sixteen pounds, So like

(19:44):
either way, thirteen pound baby, let's if you split the difference,
let's say fourteen right, right, No, I couldn't imagine like
Connor was eight pounds and I still end up having
had him cut out of me, like he's still like
even that he was too big, like right, So I
could imagine try and successfully, I guess pushing out a

(20:06):
thirteen to sixteen pound baby, which I know, like obviously,
like people do that sounds like a gestational diabetes case
that went on diagnosed.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Did they know that back then? Like was that a thing?
I don't know? But to me, like that's what it
sounds like, is like maybe she had justtational diabetes because
usually those babies are like much larger, Right, that's my
that's for keys on that.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I'm not a doctor though, so don't quote me if
I'm wrong. So it was apparently such a shock to
his father that he denied that fat he was his child,
even shunning he was like embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
That he had a fat baby.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
He apparently was so rude, This baby is too fucking
fat to be mine.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
You cheated on me. I don't know, like I kind
of logic, it's that a man's I don't know what
else to tell you other than that. Okay, that would
be like me being pissed that my kid came out
with brown eyes. My husband has blue eyes, and that's
what I wanted it. Yeah, I used to joke, which
obviously it was clearly a joke, but I used to
say that the only reason I married Kim was so

(21:10):
I have a baby with blue eyes, and that didn't happen. No, No,
you have like a twin of you etally.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Okay, So as you would imagine that the birth was
traumatic for Mary and ultimately contributed to her death twelve
years later. So this is when I should stick to
my notes, because that's when I stuck in the whole, Like,
seems like there was some mismanaged or unmanaged medical issues.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
How did it affect her death? And twelve years later?
Old timey did not tell me? Okay, because I've got
more questions about that.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
I know again, I think it's just kind of plays
into like the whole.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Women's health.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, was not is not great, Okay, So, like I said,
just a traumatic birth probably already like also played a
role in like how his father felt towards him, maybe.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Many Well you were in the room during that, you
don't think so it was probably in the back of
the house and she was in likell out the year
nineteen hundred. Absolutely not the father room. No, you're right.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
It was the eighteen hundreds when he was born, eighteen
eighty seven.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, so yeah, absolutely, no, Dad was drinking. Dad was
out of it the saloon, having a cigar.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Well, mom was in the back room of the house
with a midwife trying to push out a thirteen pound
baby and not die.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Or even more horrifying, in a hospital in the late
eighteen It is.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Said that that's more horrifying, but honestly okay. So, when
Fatty was eight, his family moved to Santa Anna, where
his father worked in a hotel. It was in school
where Roscoe first got the ruthless nickname of Fatty.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Because kids are assholes. So it's literally been his whole life,
and it stuck.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, so yeah, again, like kids are just assholes, and
then it kind of just stuck with him.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
For literally the rest of it, from like the minute
he was born, for his whole life, it.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Was fat shey by his father's he was he was born,
has to move out to California, kids there immediately start
calling him fatty because he is a bigger hild Later, yeah,
so I do feel bad for him for that.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, so fatty.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
What ended up being kind of like discovered while at
the hotel that his father worked at it, I guess
because I know I put the singing part in. Later, well,
I was trying to. I should have went back and
reworded this because he did like, you know, he was
a funny kid and he was seen so people were like, oh,
you should go perform on stage. One article said that

(23:38):
it actually ended up being a talent show that he
was told that he should go perform at, which is
what makes sense to this. So it sounds like somebody
was like, oh, you're funny, you can see whatever. You
should go to this talent show and perform, you know there,
And then it kind of turned out that people really
did like him, and so that kind of gave him
a step into you know what he would I'm doing

(23:59):
for the rest of his life. So sadly, when Mary
Fatty's mom died, like I said, what I think I said,
Like when he was about twelve, his father, William cut
him off completely, leaving him an orphan. One article said
that he like took his older sibling or siblings and
like up and od just left him a twelve year
old just like like nope, you're fat and not mine.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
So his dad really believed that then for his whole
life life.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, so like yeah, yeah, literally to the point where
he abandoned him, like when his mom died.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Oh that's so shitty.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, but Fatty was able to find work for like
a room and board at the local hotel I think
the one that he I don't know if it was
the one he was already staying in or another one,
but they you know, like, oh yeah, this poor kid,
like a twelve year old, yeah, and having to go
find work for room and board just because his father
abandoned him. So Fatty, who had a natural talent for

(24:51):
singing as well, like I mentioned, would sing well working
and eventually his employer took notice and asked Fatty to
sing in their hotel bar, which he graciously obliged because, like,
you are feeding me and making sure I'm not out
on the street, so if you want me to go sing,
yes I'll go sing. Also, it's probably easier to go
sing than clean up some of these fukes. So as

(25:11):
if fate would have it, Fatty was then discovered by
Sid Grumman and he was asked to perform in the
Unique Theater in San Francisco. He then moved on to
traveling with the Pantegus Theater Group, which I feel like
I mentioned And that's the case the Tiger Lady case
or whatever I called it. Yeah, one I feel like

(25:31):
because remember she was a choir girl and so was her. Yeah,
I feel like I mentioned the same theater group in
that case.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
I was pointing at you because we both did tigers
that we get we did hit me my mind, That's
what I was like, what are you trying to get me?
What are you? What are we thinking of figures?

Speaker 2 (25:47):
But I'm pretty sure I mentioned the same theater group
in that case because I also fucked it up trying
to say it.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yes, I mean that's what I do. So it was
there that he.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Met his wife, Menta Dufree, who was also an actress.
Am I nta.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Okay, a lot of cool names. There were a lot
of yeah, I mean instinct I was going to say
a lot of there're the old timey Hollywood names. Yeah,
so Hollywood era whatever.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
So Fatty's career blossomed from there, and in nineteen oh nine,
Fatty toured both China and Japan as a character actor.
So Fatty put in the work doing bit parts for
just three dollars a day, which in today's monies was
about one hundred and five dollars a day. I mean,
for doing something you enjoy, you know, you're being paid

(26:35):
a decent amount, it seems for the time.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
If I could get paid one hundred and five dollars
a day for doing this podcast, I would jump on
that immediately, absolutely, the first even even a week just
for recording. Yeah, and then I would quickly try to
find somebody to edit. Yeah, I'm being paid to pay
you to edit, right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
So from there, the Paramount theater, Paramount Company I just
put the Paramount discovered Fatty and realized he could bring
in the big bucks as the funny fat Guy, which
is a character he fell into and played really well.
By nineteen fourteen, that he was being paid one thousand
dollars a day as well as royalties of twenty five percent,

(27:17):
which I feel like that seems like a decent amount
of Can.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
You say it again? Sorry? I was thinking you said,
I just said the paramount, and I was like, what
would that be on paramount studio? Yeah, studio. I don't know,
And that's where my brain was when you were saying numbers.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
They they signed him on and they were paying him
a thousand dollars a day as well as twenty five
percent royalty, which I feel like is one.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Thousand dollars in that times money or in our times
money that time is money, okay, And I feel like
the twenty five percent royal, he's pretty fucking yeah. I
don't know anything about it, but I would say from
what I've seen on Shark Tank, that seems like a
huge oil day, okay. Fair.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
So he was essentially making about thirty two thousand dollars
a day because I did translate it into today's moneys,
were you okay? So that if I could get paid
thirty dollars a day to record this podcast, it would happily.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
I would split. We can split that if I got
If we could get paid that and split it, I
wouldn't bitch about editing. No, but we could afford some
Imagine how much smoother this would go. We could have
somebody comment and set everything up for us. That would
be tell us the right camera angle so that I
don't look like no. That person will probably be like,
what do you mean you're using your phone?

Speaker 2 (28:32):
It's true, They're like, no, that's not acceptable. Listen, it's
one step at a time. We do have the room painted.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
That RM is painted. It looks very nice. And with
our sound what are the called some proofing, some soundproofing.
That's pretty Sarah's husband did that for us.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Okay, So in nineteen eighteen, I'm now Again signed Fatty
on to appear in eighteen movies over the next three years,
paying him three million dollars to do so. So again
in today's moneies, that was about ninety six million dollars.
All right, to play the funny fat guy, which like,
sign me up, because if I don't have to lose

(29:07):
weight to play.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
This role, let's go. I am sometimes funny. We can
make this work.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
So this made Fatty the highest paid actor in Hollywood,
second only to Charlie Chaplin.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Jesus, So he was agay, was this improv Was it
like script? Do you know? I don't I didn't say.
I don't even know if I listed the movies. I
don't know. I look down there, like my computer's not
sitting in front of me. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
I don't know if I ended up listing any of
the movies he was in, because like again, obviously it
was at about yeah, but yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I know.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Some of it was like the small bits type thing,
while others were like actual like I think comedies and things. Okay,
So that is the backstory on who Fatty Roscoe Roscoe
our Buckle is, Okay, and just kind of like lays
the groundwork of how him and Virginia would end up
at the same party. Okay, So back to the party
with the boot leg gem, Virginia and other partygoers spent

(29:59):
the days throwing back gin blossoms, and.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
They all got fucked up basically.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Like it's sound like they all got pretty hubbly intoxicated
pretty quickly.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Gin blossom that's not the one with the egg yolk
in it or egg whites, and it is it. I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
I feel like I literally just googled something the other day.
Whiskey sour has that's what it was, not all the time.
I don't know when I googled it. I'm like, ook,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Remember I've made them before with definitely no egg whites,
because I can't what is in a gin blossom and
formooth words?

Speaker 2 (30:33):
I can't say, okay, I don't know nothing about it,
all right, gentle fruity, very simple and.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Smooth, so as you can imagine.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
By afternoon, Virginia was starting to not feel so hot
and excused herself to the next week In night or
twelve nineteen, I could want to say that backwards, am
I dyslox?

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Like? Are we sure? Am I not a divirgin? Do
I know of what type? No? Well, I mean you
have suspicion? Was that sure? Undiagnosed? But we've got undiagnosed.
But there's definitely suspicions. I should just have that like
new merch idea.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Virginia by the afternoon was smashed and not feeling great.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Jin will get you a bootleg gin?

Speaker 2 (31:16):
I know, I can't imagine. I don't even know if
I've had I'm sure I've had.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Genin We had Gen and Tonics, and the first time
I was like, you know, these are really good, but like,
you know, you can do like a vodka or yeah,
a Vouxasota or whatever, and like that's no big deal.
For some reason. I don't know if it's just me
write in and let us know if this is also you,
or if it's just me being a pussy, But like,
I had a couple Gen Tonics like I would casual

(31:42):
drinks around a fire or something. I woke up with
the worst ever hangover the next day. I was like,
drunker and different type of headache.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, I don't I'm sure I've had gen before, but
like not like that, but not like. I did find
out this weekend that BlackBerry Crown Royal in lemonade.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Did you try it? I said, I try two people
tell me.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Apparently this weekend Captain was like, oh, why don't we
get some BlackBerry Crowns out of that?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Here? We did? What time is it?

Speaker 2 (32:14):
I might be out of Crown oil, I know. Actually
I think we used up all the lemoney too. No,
we we ended up having a child free night on Friday,
so we went to dinner and got stuff to make
drinks at home because we went we we were with
the early birds. We were there with the old people,
like literally waiting for them to open the doors. We
were home early. But yeah, we had that this weekend

(32:35):
and it was dangerous. Oh so she's sick in the bathroom.
She's sick in the other sue she went to Sweet
twelve nineteen just so happened to be Fatty's private suitet.
So a short time later, Fatty also went into his suite,
looking the door behind himself at Virginia's friend was the
first to notice that something was off, and when she
heard Virginia's screaming our virginia screams coming from Friday, Fatty's

(33:00):
mad quickly went to go check on her front. So
Fatty answered the door, now wearing his pajamas, in a
robe and a sinister smile. So I debated where to
put this in because I didn't read it until I
had already typed up the whole case, and I only
saw it in one article. But again, like old timy articles,
some have more articles about old timey stuff. Some articles
have like more details than others. So supposedly, the day

(33:24):
before driving out for the party, I forgot what it
was that he's spilled on himself. He's spilt like hot
oil or something on on his pants and it gave
him like second to reburns. So the one article said
that he was just already like people were showing up
at ten thirty, like he was in his room to

(33:46):
woke up to like people like.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
So he could have already had his pajamas and that's
what you're saying, because like he's got a second and
so one article kind of implied that he was already
just in his pajamas and robe while while the party
was going on, while other articles trying to make it
sound like he changed into that I'm struggling to call
it a party at ten thirty in the morning because
I'm a weekend long party because you're so old.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
I'm like that, Well that's why by afternoon everybody was
already too smashed to do anything.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yeah, Like if I'm starting drinking at ten thirty, I
and I'm just consistently like I'm in bed by late
four three and I'm staying there the rest of the night,
I'm not getting back up. So yeah, I don't know,
so what just just to and put or insert that
because again, like I was torn on where I wanted

(34:35):
to insert it and how I wanted to plan.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
But it is a possibility that he just had already
had that on.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
So anyways, Mad said, Fatty answered the door, you know,
in the pajamas and robe with a sinister smile on. Okay,
So behind him, Virginia was quote writhing in pain on
the small smaller of the two beds in the room.
Made saw her pulling at her clothing, exclaiming, quote, he
did this, he hurt me, dying but when just kidding?

(35:02):
But why should we listen to what a woman is saying?

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Right?

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Because then al Virginia's manager came in and suggested that
they give Virginia an ice bath to sober her up.
So we're going to ignore the screams of he did
this and he hurt me and just think that she
just needs to sober up.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Sounds very illegal, bathtub gin party ish.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, so I'll and Maud gave Virginia that ice bath,
which did nothing. Virginia was still in extreme pain, and
her screams became louder and louder and more increasing. I
guess Mad even tried to run ice ob her painful
stomach because her stomach when her stomach was Yeah, the
stomach was the area that was hurting her. So like,

(35:43):
this entire scenario really pisses me off, because why aren't
we just taking like prohibition side, Yes, you should have
drinking whatever, You're gonna get a slap on the rest
your fucking Hollywood stars, Like hec heard to the fucking
hospital right, Like, why are we immediately taking her?

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (36:00):
So during all of this, Mod said that Fatty also
threatened to throw Virginia out of the window for being
so loud, but he just left the room instead. So
Alan Maud finally decided to call the hotel doctor, which
I didn't know it was a thing, Okay, And I
kind of wish hotels still did that because I don't
know how many times I don't know, man, Okay, hear
me out any because we used to drive and like

(36:22):
stay somewhere halfway because the twelve hour drive home we'd go,
we'd drive six hours, stay somewhere, drive the next six Yeah,
but I swear to God, it would never fail that
every time we would stay overnight somewhere, Connor would wake
up the next morning sick or with an ear infection,
like the one time we got back home, like we
immediately took him to convenient care there and end up
having a fucking double ear infection out of nowhere. Like

(36:43):
so if we could have got those antibiotics just slightly sooner,
that would have been nice, anyholl Yeah, but I feel.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Like that's an easy way for those hotels to like
try to brush things under their room. Right, you're right,
or you know what I mean, like especially back then,
like that's what I don't mean like now, but even now,
I mean now it's like get a well now right
around the corner, but right, I mean then that was
the case.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
But like even back home, they don't have like their
convenient care is like through the hospital and it's only
like for certain hours right now, like where we have
like the well now.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
That's not I'm not saying well now is super great either.
Well no, I'm just saying, like quick care. You know.
Oh k a r hoe doctor k are.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
So they came to examine Virginia around four pm, but
he couldn't find anything wrong with her to explain her
extreme pain. So Virginia continued to suffer until Maud again
called the hotel doctor so he was like, again, just
she's drunk. Let her sleep it off, is what we're
still going.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
She can't sleep it off.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
If she's screaming in pain, it's because she's drunk. Maybe
we should go No, she's just drunk. She's just gotta
sleepped out.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
But get her try. What would they do then, exploratory surgery?
Like I don't know more than sleep off your alcohol.
I was gonna say something mean, and I'm not going
to say it.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Okay, So Virginia continued to suffer. I just read that
until mid again called for the hotel doctor. This time
at seven pm. Doctor Beardsley came to exam at Virginia
and gave her a shot of morphine morphine again to
just sleep it off. We are again just over and over.
She just needs to sleep it off. That's all that
needs to happen right now. Okay, this time we're administering

(38:16):
drugs to help her do so, which I'm sure helped
with the pain that she was experiencing.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, but it's not figuring out why she's in pain.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Right So doctor Beardsley subsequently returned to chuck on Virginia
again at four and five am on the next morning,
September sixth. So now we went from the fifth where
she was at the party but got drunk, excuse herself
to one of the private rooms her she was heard screaming, right,
she was supposedly heard saying Fatty did this to me.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
And then from that point on everybody was just like, no,
this is just another hotel doctor.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yes, so doctor Carho and Beardsley were cly hotel doctors. Okay,
so he admitted that Virginia likely had some sort of
internal injury and probably needed surgery.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Beardley, so he took out a surgical kit and was like,
I am a hotel doctor, or so I am a
hotel doctor nineteen nineteen.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Here's what we're doingeteen twenty one. So Beardsley inserted a
metal catheter in two Virginia's yureithra and immediately knew her
bladder was injured. Oh my god, but not the severity
of what could have caused such an injury, though Beardsley
did speculate that an external force would most likely be

(39:26):
the cause of her bladder rupturing. We again just left
her at the hotel. So now we have a doctor saying, yeah,
her bladder's most likely ruptured.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
So take her too. I can help with that.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
But Mad, you're just going to spend the next couple
next day or so, like taking care of her here
at the hotel.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Because a ruptured bladder just fixes itself. Yeah. Also, I'm
like shuddering at the thought of like having a hotel doctor,
shall I metal catheter? No? And you're yeah, do you
think that they were like you just stay here and
take care for because of the liability thing? Like absolutely? Okay,
so this is why hotel doctors aren't a thing anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
So, like I said, Mad spent the next day taking
care of Virginia, who at this point was drifting in
and out of consciousness and when she was awake, she
was screaming out in pain. Okay, So Madd again asked
the doctor to check on Virginia, who was getting worse,
and they finally agreed that she needed more help than
an in house doctor could give. No fucking shit, you guys,

(40:25):
But they didn't take Virginia to a regular hospital because
everyone was worried about being in trouble.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
But he grew a fucking veterinarian or something.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
No, a step up in women's rights. She took her
to a maternity hospital.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Oh, I mean, so, so they took her to It's
not necessarily a terrible is it.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
They took her to a Wakefield Sanitarium because, like you
pointed out, everybody was afraid of the illegal alcohol and
getting in trouble.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
At the so, the Wakefield Sanitarium served as a maternity
ward and a sometimes abortion clinic from what I was seeing. Okay,
So doctor Rumsfield Feld, who was a known abortionist, was
the one to examine Virginia, and he too, first claimed
that she just had alcohol poisoning and just needed to
sleep it off.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Do you just sleep I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
I don't know if you said she needs to sleep
it off. But again, everybody was just like, oh, she's
just drink too much basically, you know what I mean,
Like I think sleeping alcohol poisoning off is just like.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
I don't know, I've never drink to the point of
having me either, but I know, like you would have
to get your stomach pumped and stuff, like your body
days later, Like what do you now you're days later? Yeah? Right,
Like what are you pumping out of our stomach at
that point? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Like, it's nothing it's not alcohol poisoning, right, So even
though doctor Beardsley had already suspected her bladder to be
the source of all of her sickness and pain, there
wasn't really much done of that. Like I said, doctor
Feld was pointing towards alcohol poisoning as the cause of
her extreme abdominal pain.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
I feel like I disagree, all right.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, So over the next few days, Virginia's condition only
got worse, but during her lucid moments, Virginia would tell
them that Fatty did this to her. Sadly, Virginia would
never get the proper care before she slipped into a
coma and then passed away on September ninth, nineteen twenty one.
She suffered for five days, five days, and no one
thought that they should do anything more than treat her

(42:14):
for alcohol poison Yeah. And it's crazy to me because
she was like a well known Hollywood star and they
still were like not not like even even that, Like again,
like she's you would think it better better care than
just and you Josema walking and off the street. Like
but even still she got not great care, right, she's

(42:35):
a woman, yeah, did you like always said the maternity
or would step up from the veninary clinic in.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
The nineteen I mean it probably was. I was just thinking,
like I could see considering going there instead of a
regular hospital because like right, and used to treating maybe
they would be more practiced at treating you want with
women issues. But they still that the alcohol poisoning diagnosis.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
So I don't know, man, it just wasn't great all around, right, Yeah,
So an autopsy was immediately performed after Virginia's friends, I
guess requested it, and doctor Rumwell and doctor Orfis Orphis performed.
It was held two different ways, in two different articles
performed the autopsy.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
But her friends had to ask for it. I guess,
give me a second.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Okay, I'm sorry to rush you out. It'll make sense
in a second. So the doctors confirmed that Virginia's bladder
had ruptured, okay, noting the injury was between one and
twelve days old, and that the bladder appeared descended but
also exposed to force.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
How can they tell how many days it's been. I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
That doesn't like that made weird early old timy doctors.
So we're just kind of making things up. I feel
like because between one and.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Twelve days is a wide window.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, it's a wide window because like a new injury
and a twelve day old injury. Yeah, maybe it was
like how it had tried to heal or something.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Maybe excuse me.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
So they apparently also removed Virginia's stomach and sent it
out for testing, as well as removing her female reproductive parts,
and then they instructed an orderly to incenterate them.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
I mean, she didn't need those anymore. There's there's no
need to keep those. What if something happened and we
need evidence exactly. That's the only conclusion I can come
to as to.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Why would they like why they would try to remove
her reproductive parts and then immediately send an orderly off
with them to burn them. Okay, there's no other like
logic to me as to why they would like because
why aren't we burning the stomach at that point? Why
aren't we burning the busted bladder at that point?

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Right? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Like, why are we only taking these parts out and
burning those?

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Right?

Speaker 2 (44:45):
But the orderly was stopped just in time because guess what,
those two doctors did not have authorization to perform that autopsy.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
Then what were they doing? How did they get put
because they why was the task added to them?

Speaker 2 (45:00):
I sounded like they were doctors at the hospital that
she died at.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
And they were just like, let's go do a willy
nilly autopsy, I get rid of some body parts. I guess.
So people from this time period are so fucking weird
with the autopsy stuff. Yeah, the Jane Topin lady that
like loved the autopsies and yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah,
the medical stuff from this time period is just like wild.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Maybe that's why I cover so much of it because
I'm still like I can't wrap my brain around. Yeah, okay, Well,
the reason that they weren't supposed to be the ones
performing the autopsy is because in the state of California,
a corner is required to perform the autopsy when the
manner of death is unclear, which hey, hers was unclear obviously.
So I know I did a little recap earlier. I'm
gonna go ahead and I put it in here now,

(45:44):
So I'm gonna go ahead and just recap it. So Virginia,
a well known Hollywood actress, went to a Labor Day
weekend party, got completely trashed along with everyone else at
the party. Goes to one of the reserved rooms, ends
up there alone with this Fatty character who was also
a well known actor, and according to Modd, she felt
something was amiss and went to look for her friend

(46:05):
mad then heard screams knocked slash kicked at the door
from depending on which article, and then sees Fatty there
with a smug smile on his face while Virginia is
writhing in pain behind him.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Also according to Maud, Virginia was yelling that Fatty had
done that to her, right, And then we had the
horrific treatment, if you can call it that, from first
the hotel doctors, then the doctors at the maternity abortion
clinic sanitarium. Thing right all around bad, heavily mishandled, in
my humble opinion.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
In my humble expert opinion, everyone fucked up.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yes, okay, So back to the real official autopsy, which.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Which could they even do a whole official autopsy?

Speaker 2 (46:49):
So I think so because they didn't remove the bladder,
the whatever, we're still there. They stopped the orderly before
he could toss the reproductive organs.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Oh okay, I'm sorry I missed where they stopped. Oh
stop him in time, I thought you meant stopped him
in time for like the bladder and stuff. No, so
they stopped him in time before incinerating her reproductive organs.
And obviously they sent the stomach off to like the
city's chemist or whatever for testing, so I'm going to
assume they were able to retrieve that information as well.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
So this official autopsy was performed by doctor Strange. Glad'
not the only one, okay. So Strange determined the cause
of death to be paritinitis, which is an infection, and
the membrane lining of the abdominal wall.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Doctor Strange believed that it was the result of Virginia's
bladder rupturing, So we are all agreeing on her bladder
did rupture, she developed an affection because of that, okay,
and it was never treated, so she died from that infection.
So they also agreed that the rupture was caused by
external force. So again we're saying it didn't just spontaneously rupture.

(47:52):
That is extremely extremely rare.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Something happened to something had to have happened from the
external forces, right. So the one article said like a
well I reworded it, but like a heavily overweight man
putting all of his weight on her during possible sexual assault.
So I saw articles say he like range of his weight,
but I think the highest I saw him put out
was like two hundred and sixty six pounds or something

(48:15):
like that. And you know, she wasn't like a she
wasn't a large person like she was a smaller person, right,
So like I guess him putting his weight on her. However,
supposedly that they think that's what ruptured her bladder, okay,
and which led to the infection that killed her. So
Fatty our Buckle was arrested the next day, September tenth,
nineteen twenty one, for the first degree murder of Virginia,

(48:37):
and this would later be drop to manslaughter. So originally
arrested for first degree murder, but then it was later
dropped to manslaughter. So California at the time denied bail
in any murder cases but set nope.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
But I think one articles had like three weeks again
the timeframes a little bit if he but he was
still able to be released on his own recognisance. Some
articles said the very same day. Some articles said it
was a couple of weeks that he sat in jail.
Is it because the charges got dropped to manslaughter. Probably, yeah,
so I think it was. Yeah, I think it was
more along the lines of he was there for a
couple of weeks and that got dropped to manslaughter, so

(49:12):
then he was able to be let out. So of
course this was huge news, and newspapers would run wild
with it, right because that's what they do. So supposedly,
in the years leading up to Virgina's untimely death, she
had a reputation of being somewhat of a party girl,
which she said, like her twenties in Hollywood. Hot, she's

(49:33):
in Hollywood, she's doing well in her career. She has money. Yeah, like,
get the fuck off it, like whatever. One journalist even
called Virginia a quote amateur call girl who used to
get drunk at parties and start to tear her clothes off.
So again, we are just fucking running wild with our rumors.
So further rumors claimed that Virginia dabbled in sex work,

(49:56):
and also that she supposedly had as many as five abortions.
Like again, as I just said, like, she died a
tragic death no matter what happened, whether she liked to
go out and enjoy her time, has nothing to do
with her death, right.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
And newspapers being even and again, she was a successful actress, model, designer,
and we're now going to be like she liked to
go have fun, So does her death really matter? Like
fuck you, yeah, like that's it's shitty. That is shitty.
So the papers weren't nice to Fatty though either.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
They called him a hedonist and a brute, which honestly
doesn't sound as fucking bad as calling her an amateur
call girl, and yeah, ripper cloths off for anybody, like
I'm it just I am heated from that, some articles
wrote about the Labor Day party as if it was
just this huge orgy with rumors of rape with glass bottles.
Like again, the papers went fucking wild with this, like okay,

(50:51):
I didn't even I didn't even include everything.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Like its just I had to stop. It's just gross.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
They like the amount of misinformation and rumors that were
just perpetuated by newspapers.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
So Fatty of course proclaimed his innocence. He first first
telling police that he was never alone with Virginia and
that he was just trying to help her, claiming that
Virginia had become quote hysterical after drinking and that she
quote complained so she could not or complained she could
not breathe, and then started to tear off her clothes.

(51:25):
So again just a hysterical drunk woman who like did
she have she did have clothes on, she was fully dressed,
okay when Mad came to find her.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
His story would later change. So during trial, Fatty's defense
took the approach of discrediting any witness possible, claiming that
they were all drunk and even wit as far as
calling Mad Virginia's friend a liar and a madam who
would like Oh, another article did say that like she
was known to be the person to contact if you

(51:57):
wanted girls at parties and things like that. Okay, So
the witnesses that could not be discredited somehow forgot the
events of that night by the time they reached the stands.
So anybody who could be discredited or they were just drunk,
you can't really believe what they said. There were those people,
and then the people who they could not discredit for
some reason, didn't remember what happened that night by the

(52:19):
time they got to the trial.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Okay, convenient.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, Virginia's manager did recall one very important detail. I
was trying not to say butt in front of it.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
No, I'm laughing because every time you say al, it
sounds like owl. But it's just your ass. Oh. I
thought I was doing better with his first name? What's
his last name? Again? In the ship bangs? What is
it you say? Ship? Where he did? No? Sorry, I
wasn't gonna say anything but that. Okay, yeah, that's that
the tracks. Honestly, now that I think about it, now,
I'm owl owl. Virginia's manager did recall one very important

(52:52):
detail he remembered from that night, and that was that
Fatty supposedly told him that he had placed a piece
of inside Virginia. When Al was asked to repeat what
Fatty has said and his exact words, Al couldn't bring
himself to say it aloud, so he wrote it down
and the DA read it aloud for the court. The
paper read quote, he said, he put a piece of

(53:14):
ice in Virginia Rappe's steps. So that's fucking disgusting. I mean,
do whatever you want consensually, but like I'm judging you
and ice cube, that's cold. How could you steal that?
I don't want to know, just kidding, I don't want
to know. Don't eat about it, do you. I'm not judging.
I just I could never. I could never. I'm cold

(53:35):
standing here or sitting here fully clothed. So we have
a space heater in here.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
I don't think it's honoring now, I don't know considering
turning a bath on. Okay, So what did I say?

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (53:42):
So, of course the prosecution went right in on Fatty
as well, claiming he was a sex fiend from a
broken home, saying Fatty was nothing more than a drunk
drug addict misogynist like his father.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
I guess you could just say whatever, whether it's true
or not.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
That sounds like it, yeah, no matter which side of
it's just like it was a movie chaos. So during
the trial, Fatty test fight that he had gone into
his bedroom where he had found Virginia already there. Oh sorry,
bathroom not bedroom. And he had found virgin And there
already on the floor throwing up.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
She went there because she didn't feel good, right.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
And they all did say that everybody was there like
drinking a fuct ton. So Fatty then cleaned, he got
Virginia some water, and then he helped her onto the
bed and then that is when other party goers from
the hotel. That is when other party brain we are
almost there, and then that is when other party party
goers called for the hotel doctor who first said Virginia

(54:45):
was just having talks kidd and just needed to sleep
it off. This version of Fatty story differs from his
original story in which he said that there was no
time period that he was ever alone with Virginia. So
originally he said, okay, he did find Virginia in his
room growing up whatever, but that he was never alone
with her. Then this version was, I was alone in

(55:08):
there with her for a very short period of time.
I helped her to the bed because she was throwing
up whatever. That's when other people came in. So he
claiming he was he strictly just tried to help her,
did not do anything else. So even Mad's story was
falling apart and changing during the investigation. You remember, Mad
is the one who first claimed that Fatty had raped

(55:29):
Virginia to anyone who'd listen, Doctors when they finally got
to the hospital, nurses, like anybody who she could say,
she would say that Fatty.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Arbuckle raped Virginia.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Okay, But Maud was found to have a dark past
of her own with criminal fraud and extortion. Specifically, she
liked two black male, wealthy male celebrities who liked to
attend these types of parties. And that's a proven that
was a proven she the criminal fraud and extortion was yes, okay,

(56:00):
proven thing.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Why would anybody have her at these parties?

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Then, I don't know, old timey, she supposedly is the
person who can bring all the girls to the party.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
To have more fun.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
So let's you know, I don't know, okay again, but
you also have to think, like if I was at
a party and you supposedly or I can and I
claimed you did something and you didn't want that to
get out, whether it's true or not, are you just
gonna pay me and like move on from it, or
are you gonna go off and tell everybody like, oh no,
she did this to me, Like watch yourself, You're you're

(56:33):
gonna cover yourself. You're not gonna put yourself out there.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
No, But then you certainly wouldn't be inviting her to
other parties, right, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yeah, I don't know if it's the same people always
inviting her, or if she's just in the in the crowd.
It kind of sound the lake, you know, like she's
just kind of among the people who would show up,
like if it's a.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Proven thing and I should know about it. Was maybe
you wasn't well known until after this case. Maybe, And
so it.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Didn't help that Maud was also caught sending tell grahams
to lawyers saying, quote, we have Roscoe Arbuckle and a
hole here. Chance to make some money out of him?

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Sorry, old timey. Yeah, I have seen words, but I'm
leaning forward. Not because of that. I'm leaning forward because
like so Mod's turning out to not be a very
credible witness, correct to anything.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Okay, Yeah, So Mad's timeline on how long she had
actually known Virginia was also changed, like changed as well.
First Mod claimed that she had known Virginia for years,
but then she later claimed that she had only met
her a few days prior to the party. So it's
again up in the air, like you know. Due to
her ever changing story and checkered past of her own,

(57:43):
Mod was never called to stand to testify, even though
like she was originally the prosecution's like star witness. She
ended up never being called because everything.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Deemed not credible, no reasons like obviously you don't want
to give the defense the chance to rass examiner and ye.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Tore her apart, right, especially with how the show was
being handled. So during the trial, Fatty's attorney showed Virginia's
autopsy concluding that their quote were no marks of violence
on the body, no signs that the girl had been
attacked in any way, again calling her a girl. But
that was Fatty's attorney during the trial. So this trial

(58:24):
against Fatty Arbuckle was ultimately deemed a mistrial after the
jury was deadlocked ten to two for a quittal. A
subsequent to a subsequent trial would also again result and
yet another mistrial for the same reason. We're you know,
I mean, there's proof of anything but a ruptured.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Bladder, right right.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I think one a couple of articles did mention that
there was like a possible small bruise on an arm
and or thigh.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Okay, well, you've been freakingleg gin. She probably walked into
a Hey.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Well, like, I'm also late all the time, and she
did have people picking her up and helping her.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Yeah, that too, I like you bounce off a door
frame if you have too much gin. Sometimes like I
literally walked up.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
A door frame this morning, and I didn't drink anything.
I walked up, I bounced off. So yeah, it's so.
In March of nineteen twenty two, a third and final
trial against Fatty would start, this time around Fatty's attorney's
lat This time around Fatty's lawyers basically told him to
shut the fuck up and give gave him like and

(59:29):
approved like a script, right, basically like we this is
how you need to say how the events of that
night went.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Stick to this, don't say anything else.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
So in that that account of what happened again was
the exact opposite of what Maud had said all along.
So Fatty again claimed that Virginia was hysterical, that he
only washed Virginia's face and then laid her on the bed,
that she then fell to the floor, so he picked
her up again. And then he went on to say
that it wasn't his fault she was hearing out her

(01:00:00):
clothes then he was, or that he was just trying
to help her. The stories are somewhat similar, you know
what I mean, Like she was in the bathroom throwing
up I guess, I mean, I don't know, maybe through
some water on her face.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Well, helped her to the bed covered in puke or
whatever before you put her in a bed. Yeah, so
it helped her to the bed. She fell off the bed,
so he helped her back onto the bed, and then
that's when Maud and the other partygoers kind of came
in to her screaming, you know, in pain, thank you,
you welcome. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
So on April thirteenth, nineteen twenty two, Fatty our Buckle
was what do you think.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
I think still not guilty. I don't know what happened,
but I don't think that there I don't think there's
is it guilty?

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
No, So Fatty was acquitted, and I guess the jury
in this trial even apologized to Fatty for like the
whole ordeal, believing that Virginia's death was just a tragic
accident and that Fatty had no part in it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
There the apology.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Read, in part quote, we wish him success and that
American that the American people will take the judgment of
fourteen men and women that Roscoe Arbuckle is entirely innocent
and free from all blame. So they were well again
because he was a big movie star, and they like,
we've found him not guilty. We all need to go
on from this basically, so Virginia's death would never fully

(01:01:19):
be explained. Some claim that she suffered from chronic excite,
Some claim that she suffered from chronicditis.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Why can I not say that? What is it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Cissitis? Okay, which is basically like a bladder infection. So
my cat's on special food because she kept getting chronic sycitis.
So now she has doing special food. That's the only
reason I know what it is. And that when Virginia
drink alcohol it exacerbated our symptoms, supposedly, some said, sometimes
to the point of removing her clothes and an attempt
to find some sort of comfort. So now that the

(01:01:49):
trial's over and everything, more things are coming out about,
like she had a bladder condition, supposedly that she suposedly
had a bladder condition, that when she drank it would
make that blader condition worse and cause for more pain,
so she would sometimes take your clothes up to be
more comfortable.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
That is now what is being claimed. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
So a star in her own right, badly dead by
thirty with no real closure to the case. Fatty's reputation
and career was also irreversibly damaged. Actually, I shouldn't sy irreversibly.
It was heavily damaged. Even after his acquittal, Fatty's new
movies were pooled from theaters. See Motion Picture Productions and
Distributors of America issued a ban on Fatty's work, claiming

(01:02:32):
Fatty was an example of Hollywood's debakery. The band didn't
last long, but the damage was already done. Fatty became
a depressed recluse, and his wife, Meanta, divorced him in
nineteen twenty five. This worth noting that she did stand
by him, by his side throughout all three trials, and
all throughout she claimed that there's no way Fatty would

(01:02:54):
ever do something like this to somebody like it wasn't
in his character. Okay, so I'm assuming the depress and
become a recklessest, probably what.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Led to their divorce.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Fatty did eventually return to Hollywood, working as a director,
first under a pseudonym. Ironically, if Fatty chose to use
the name William Goodrich, the first and middle name of
his piece of hip father who abandoned him, why he
chose those names, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
That's a personal choice. You can't judge him. For it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
But okay, if you were trying to shift away from
the name Fatty, like why do you why would you
go with a guy who abandoned you? That's just my opinion, right, so,
lady lady. Later Betty would remarry, first to Doris Dean
and then to Addie mcfowell. So apparently the marriage to
Doris did not last very long, and then he again remarried. Okay.

(01:03:42):
By nineteen thirty two, Fatty seemed to be making a
comeback in the entertainment industry, even appearing in some Warner
Brother comedy shorts using his own name. They were successful,
and Warner brother then offered Fatty a high paying featured
film contract. Fatty was over the moon that things seemed
to be getting better for him, even telling his family
and friends that quote, this is the best day of

(01:04:04):
my life when he was signing the contract, But sadly,
that very same day, forty six year old Fatty Arbuckle
suffered a heart attack and died.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Oh yeah, he's too excited.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
I'm again assuming there's some underlying underlying health issues that
went undiagnosed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
If he was, no, he was just too excited.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
But so do we think this is a case of
assault that led to richness death or is it truly
a case of being in the wrong place at the
wrong time with a known blackmailer as the star witness.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
I think option too, because it didn't sound like they
were in the room together for a very long time.
Granted things can happen fast, but she had her clothes
on right, right, and I think in the autops scene
if there was no evidence of right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
So I think the theory at the time was he
was attempting to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Rape her and then and put weight on her okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Who already possibly sensitive blood, and that's what ruptured it.
And then her mis treatment by doctors and everybody after
that is what led to the death. Or is it
just he really was a good guy and it's trying
to help her.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
And I mean it sounds like maybe with like what
came out after, with her bladder conditions and stuff like
she was it already would be uncomfortable, right, and then
get worse when she was drinking, which they start drinking
it ten thirty in the morning, so like hello, and
then so she starts not feeling well, her stomach starts
hurting or whatever, and then she removed herself from the
party to go lay down or get sick or whatever.

(01:05:34):
And I think, I think mod is the fucking problem is.
But I think, like, yeah, I want to believe anybody
who says that they've been assaulted, obviously, right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
But even if even if she did truly say Fatty
did this to me, but if it had.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
The only source of that is mad And I think.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Like, well, but okay, hear me out for a second.
Even if she did say that, remember she's heavily intoxicated,
maybe him picking her up off the floor and carrying
her to the bed, and that she fell off the
bed and could have hurt herself.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
That way, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Yeah, yeah, So it could be a combination of maybe
he really was just trying to help her, she was
heavily intoxicated, and maybe she thought that he wasn't. And
then somebody else is coming in saying, oh my god,
he raped her.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
And then she was like you know what, right, Like
I'm in so much pain and drunk right now.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Right, and you clearly not thinking straight with the pain
and intoxication.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
So like, yeah, I think it was as sad, It's
a sad case of sad.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Nobody ever really knows what happened to her, and I
do lean towards I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
I don't think he did it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
I think he was just trying to help her and
was just not given the benefit of the doubt to
have it looked into. And I do think if she
would have gotten the treatment also, I was a spittle
like that day, then I think things would have gone
much differently as well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Yeah, because she would have been able to be treated
for her bladder and probably still be alive. Right, Yeah,
I was thinking the same thing, like maybe if they
hadn't held her at the hotel for right a few days, yeah,
with the metal catheter and m hm yes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Oh, and I we also cannot forget the role that
the newspapers played. One newspaper editor, owner or whatever. I
didn't put in here because it pissed me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Off so much.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Then he he made a comment about how this scandal
sold more newspapers than like a sinking of whatever ship at.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
The time, the Titanic. Oh, it started an L. It started.
It was started with an L. I don't remember it was,
but like, I don't know, it's just fucking gross. Yeah,
it's just that's all they care about. So they just
put out whatever headlines.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
And they put out whatever fucking rumors anybody was spewing
and not like clearly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Not, it's just it's just fucked. So that is my
shitty Hollywood case that literally, I do you want me
to name this episode? It's just fucked? Yeah? But then yeah,
because I mean it literally is just fucked. It's like
there's no there's no good outcome with this, like there's
justice for anybody, and right the cakes. Well, I mean, besides,

(01:08:05):
Fatty Arbuckle didn't go to prison for the rest of
his life for something that he probably didn't do, so
there's I mean, there is that. But it did kind
of ruin his life for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Oh yeah, like it heavily tarnished his name and his career.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Because mod thought that she could get money out of them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
Right, and then when when he could finally come back
and actively, you know, participate in the career that he had,
but he died.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Right, So sad all the way around for everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Yeah, this I have looked this case up at least
ten times, Like when we first started the podcast, I
remember looking this up and then for some reason I
just kept like, no, not this time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Whatever and then here we are, I finally did it.
It's a fucked case. You told it really well though,
I think I've heard some of this, but it was
like just about Fatty Arbuckle's life, like not going into
her life really at all. She was just like an
unfortunate victim of like this story. So I think you
covered it really well with like respect to yeah, I
mean yes, yeah, they both got fucked in the end.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
If you lost her life, he lost his career, and
then by the time he got it back it was
too late. Right, So all right, So my sources are
there were two articles from all this interesting dot com.
One was by Gina de Mora and one was by
Amber Morgan. There was a medium dot com article by
Heather Monroe. There was an Oxygen dot com article by
Sydney Contreas and Gina Tron. Then there was a Smithsonian

(01:09:27):
mag dot com by Gilbert King.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
I put the PBS article in here. I don't think
I actually used it, but you always have one ever,
you know, justin gase. And there was a Wikipedia obviously
about it too, But I don't really think I used
that either. That was haunting my brain for the last Now,
you never have to talk about it again until I
do another Hollywood case and then this pops up and

(01:09:50):
I'm pissed off all over it again. So you can find.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Us on Facebook at The Shit Show, a true crime podcast.
You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok YouTube at
the ship Show TCP.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Please leave us a nice review on Apple Podcasts. That
would be nice amazing. You can like and comment on Spotify.
You can email us at SHIPSHOWTCP at gmail dot com. Obviously,
follow us everywhere and share us with your friends. That
is all we have for this week. Thanks for listening.
Hey bye you