73. Lizzie Borden

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, I'm te Lisa and I'm Sarah. Welcome to the
Shit Show, a half asked true grand podcast. That is us,
that is fully us. I think this might be the
absolute quickest setup time we've ever had. Yeah, last week
it took an extra hour. We didn't start to almost
ten thirty. Yeah, ill because we couldn't get in my camera.

(00:27):
Think it was a it was a whole thing. Yeah,
We've got Sarah's tripod on a step stool. We're just
we're pros. Yeah, I'm sitting way far away from my
mic I know, I like, I really want to sit
back and relax. Yeah, So, how was it going? It's going.

(00:49):
It's another week. It is another week. We are fully
into spring sport mode at my house. Yeah, it's if
it's not two games happening at the same time, it's
a game and a practice, a game and a practice
and a third practice because I have three kids. And
also things are being added to the calendar, like as

(01:11):
we speak with that band, concerts, Nisma things, another lacrosse
tournament thingy. So just every time a kid comes home
with a piece of paper with like a date on it,
I just cross my fingers and I'm like I hope
that's a day that we only have practice. I know,
I for sure sound like a shitty parent to some people,
but I am. I'm glad that Connor never got into sports.

(01:31):
We tried a couple he it just wasn't for him.
He didn't, you know, with his asthma. He was always
worried about it. So yeah, that's fine, that's fine. I
can sleep in on Saturday mornings, right, not fal all
night every night. Right. No, So like I'll complain that.
I mean, I'm not even really complaining. I really enjoy
watching them grow in the sports and extracurricular things that
they like doing. It's just logistically sometimes, the sports time

(01:57):
math that I have to do, it's worse than bar math.
It is worse than bar math, that's for sure, because
I'm like, okay, my bar math. I waits Yeah, not
at a bar. I knew exactly what you meant. Yeah,
that forty five plus forty five is one thirty five. Yes,
somebody's gonna be like, no, you're a fucking idiot. That's
not with forty five and forty five, ehicle, but you're
forgetting the forty five in between. Yeah, which is that

(02:18):
just means that you don't go to the gym. That's fine, Yeah,
which is fine. Yeah. So that's that's all we've been
doing is sports. I had to make a special trip
to the grocery store to buy trunk snacks. I saw
random on Facebook the other day and because I actually
clicked on it because I'm like, oh, I wonder if
Tista would like this for the kids for sports. It

(02:40):
was like different flavored sunflower seeds. And now that's all
that's popping up in my fucking Facebook. I'm like, I
was gonna send it to you, but it was like
one hundred dollars for like that's not for me off
and that's why that's why I never sent it to you.
But now that's all it's. That's all the advertisement I get. Gotcha. No,
I swing into like the gas station and buy those
for softball because softball is all about snacks in the

(03:02):
dugout right. Yeah, we Connor started school again today, like
actually going to school. I think I got like two
seconds of sleep. And I didn't even ask you before
we came down here, like how the how it went
him getting on the bus and stuff. Okay, so they
told me they called me Friday to let me know
like transportation information. They told me the bus would be

(03:22):
here at six thirty five in the morning. So I
got Connor up at five, got him breakfast, took his
ADHD meds and whatnot. At like six fifteen and I'm like, okay,
why don't we just go ahead and go out and wait.
We can sit in the car because it was kend
of rainy, because you know, we don't know exactly what
time they're gonna show. Like literally, as he was like

(03:43):
in the car trying to put his shoes on because
he left his shoes in the car, the bus pulls up,
I would like, oh, I like the puss is here.
So then like I don't know, he's eleven and sixth grade,
Like I didn't want to walk him to the bus,
and me like, that's embarrassing. You hold his hand like
he's in kindergarten. Got so I stayed at the fu
You didn't want to, but you did want to, Yes,
absolutely well. I stayed to the garage and then forced

(04:04):
the bust. I yelled out to me to talk to me,
and I'm like, but it was just like they said,
because they got there at six twenty and we were
told six thirty five, and he's like, oh, it's time
fluctuates in the morning ten five to ten minutes, which
you know, it really depends on yeah, what kids are out, okay,
so which I expected anyways, so we thankfully did go

(04:24):
out early. But so yeah, that was that. I then
immediately came in and like took all of my Easter
shit down, offed my house, tried to stay super busy
because I am totally not panicking right now. It's just
like you want to come over and stressed clean my
house because I've been very stressed out. But guess what
I did. I didn't move my body for like two days.

(04:46):
And I blamed this podcast on it because I had
a case that I was going through and typing. I
was like, this is gonna be fine. There's a forensic
files on it, Like it's not long enough for if
we're just doing one case a week. So I had
a tiny small meltdown and then just had to restart.
So I been like panic typing for two days. That

(05:08):
is probably what I will end up doing for my
case next week. Because my body doesn't work if it's
not under pressure apparently right or my brain, buddy brain
both why not everything. So this week it's my case
because I got my life together and was able to
fucking a real quick before Lisa jumps into her case.

(05:28):
We do want to remind everybody that you can find
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You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube
at the Shit Show TCP and we're posting stuff on
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or largest fan. Well, if you listened to last week's episode,

(05:51):
you yeah, that clip makes me laugh every time because
you say it and I'm like, why the fuck would
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that just helps push to push us out to more people.

(06:11):
And you can did she do the email? You can
email us at Shit Show TCP at gmail dot com.
Key suggestions, pronunciation corrections, all the ways that Sarah is
wrong always I'm just kidding the wrong, wrong pronunciations say
if you look at my notes sometimes I forget commas
and we're not grading her papers. Fine, and then Lisa
won't let me add the man as I see it. Okay,

(06:37):
you don't know what I'm doing. I am going to
stumble my way through the story of Lizzie Borden. Okay,
all right, this is one of the ones I've been
asking for for like since we started, well in a
few weeks ago, a month ago, whatever time is not relevant.

(06:57):
A while ago I text you and I was like, hey, so,
you know, stay away from Lizzie Borden because I'm gonna
cover Lizzie Borden. And you were like, I assumed that
you would be doing that. Yes, You're like, I wasn't
going to wake it. And so when I was panicking
about what I wanted to cover, I was like, what
what is a case that I, first of all, could
just rattle off like the timeline without any notes. I

(07:19):
wouldn't listen. I have a tentative plan, but it's scary anyway.
Lizzy Borden was like on the list of things that
I started googling, and I was like, well, you know what, hell, yeah,
so that's what I'm doing. Okay. I can't figure out
how I want this. I feel like it's a weird
thing to say that I'm excited about. Well, I how
do I word that? So I haven't covered and you

(07:40):
want to know the story. I haven't covered this because
I feel like everyone has covered it, right, So I'm
like everybody knows all the things about it. But here
I am feel better. I don't remember anybody else telling me.
I just really have wanted you to do this. Okay.
First of all, I forgot to put this is I
want to do this morning? Do you know the rhyme?

(08:02):
Like I feel like we did a rhyme? Just had
to brainstorm for the word intrigues see bored in rhyme?
I meant to put it in here is it's a
nursery rhyme. I'm trying to remember that you can like
do to like jump rope or something. Okay, So it's
Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty wax,
and when she saw what she had done, she gave
her father forty one. Which those are not the right numbers, right,

(08:27):
But why is that a nursery rhyme? What are what
were we doing in New England? Jumping rope? I feel
like I have heard that one, and now I'm just
trying to think of all of the crazy ones that
we used to jump rope to in elementary and elementary school.
I was gonna say in middle school, but I don't
think I jumped he rope in middle school. The only

(08:47):
one that I can think of is like miss Mary Mac. Yeah,
but that was there with the hands, right. We for
sure had a couple that were like Maggared Mac. I'll
dress dressed in black with silver buttons. Something silver buttons.
She has her mother for forty wax, just her mother.

(09:08):
You can email us this whole entire rhyme. We're moving on. Definitely,
am not ever going to google it? Could I google it? Yes?
Am I going to now? Okay? So, Lizzie Andrew Borden
was born on July nineteenth, eighteen sixty in Fall River, Massachusetts.
Her middle name's Andrew, yeah. Her so her mother was
Sarah Anthony Bordon and her father was Andrew Jackson Bordon. Cool.

(09:32):
Just so the middle name of all of our first
names is yeah. So it sounds like her mom had
probably her dad's name as her moddle name. Yeah. Three
years after Lizzie was born. Her mother died of uterine
congestion and spinal disease at the age of thirty nine.
What is uter congestion? Okay? I briefly looked up. It

(09:52):
was like, because it sounds like the sale, the period
is just stuck. It's like blood pooling in there, I
guess is what it looked like during a very brief google,
because I was like, what the fuck does that mean?
And all I can think it's like a chicken with
this egg bound. I don't think it's quite the same thing. Okay,

(10:14):
all right, and that is proof that we are not
scientists doctors. I mean, something's bound. Okay, it's a little
clogged up. That was gross. I'm cutting up, Okay. Three
years after Lizzie's mom died, Andrew married Abby durfy Gray.
Lizzie would later say that she called her stepmother missus

(10:37):
Borden and that she believed Abby had married her father
for his money. But like they got married when Lizzie
was about for or something like that. I don't like
she was young. So it's like Abby had been in
her life for most of most of early Yeah, her
father who was nope, her father who grew up in
like very modest surroundings, struggled financially as a young man,

(10:58):
even though he was a sendent of wealthy and influential
residents of the area. So I think kind of like
went off on his own and struggled a little bit,
which is fine. Andrew eventually prospered in the manufacturing and
sale of furniture and caskets, and then he became a
successful property developer. I didn't come across this in my

(11:18):
research or whatever, but I know that I have heard
that he was like a cute so he is a
very frugal man. He pinches pennies all that, I swear
to God somewhere I read or heard at some point
in my life. Maybe I'm starting a rumor right now
that he was accused of or that there was a
rumor going around that he made the coffins too short

(11:39):
and had to cut the feet off from the bodies
that woe in them. But I'm just now remembering that,
Like that was definitely something that I know that I
have heard. I feel, but I don't think that's true.
I think that that might just be like a weird,
old timey rumor. Yeah, he was also the director of
several textile mills and owned considerable commercial property. He was

(12:00):
the president of the Union Savings Bank and a director
of the Dirfy Safe Deposit and Trust Company. Eventually, his
estate was valued at about three hundred thousand dollars or
ten point five million dollars in today's money. Okay, so
he was doing pretty good. Next line, despite his wealth,
Andrew was known for being really frugal. He his residence.

(12:23):
Their house didn't have any indoor plumbing, even though that
was a common feature for most households at the time.
So he's like, no, I really like shitting in my yard,
thank you. I just have a kiss pot next to
the bed. No. Listen in some testimony that happens later,
they've got a housemaid and stuff. When she's going through
like what their morning was like the day of spoiler alert,
there's murders. Oh. She's like, mister Boarding came downstairs with

(12:48):
his slop pail, and I'm like, no, thank you, okay.
And I left it out of my notes because it
grows me out. Now I'm telling you about it. So
y a time. I'm glad I'm not living up living
up in no wonder, living in what did I cover? No?
I can't even think of it. What are you thinking?
The one lady who fucking went around spreading her disease typhoid.

(13:11):
No wonder that shit spread so easy. They were literally
just shitting and pissing in pots and then handing it around. Yeah,
it was like he dumped his slap pail next to
the pear tree or something, and I'm like, but the
pears are there, and you eat those right well, and
he picked pears, picked up pears. No, okay, we had
to move on anyway. So their house stood in an

(13:34):
affluent area, but the wealthiest residence of Fall River, including
some of Andrew's relatives, I think like his cousins generally
lived in a more fashionable neighborhood than everyone called the Hill,
which was further from like the industrial areas of Okay City.
Lizzie and her older sister, Emma Leonora born in who
was about ten years older than her, had a relatively

(13:57):
religious upbringing and attended the Central Congression Church. Plus also,
I wanted to pause say, I would be kind of
pissed off if my older sister was Emma Leonora and
I was Lizzie Andrew. Yeah, honestly, as a young woman
Lizzie was very involved in church activities. She taught Sunday school,
and she was involved in other religious organizations like the

(14:20):
Christian Endeavor Society. Did I look it up, No, but
she was the secretary and treasurer. Okay, so she was
also involved in the Women's Christian Temperance Union and the
Ladies Fruit and Flower Mission, so okay. Drinking at their house.
This was very religious apparently, I don't know why. I

(14:43):
don't ever well. And the temperance was women's temperance was
a big part of why the prohibition happened. Yes, I
think they were for prohibition, probably because their drunk husband
shit beat out of them by their husband. Right eighteen
ninety one, some cash and jewelry were stolen from the

(15:05):
master bedroom in the Boarden home. It was kind of
an open secret that Lizzie was suspected of taking the stuff.
She was also accused by several local merchants of shoplifting.
And then I think like Andrew would come in and
pay for the stuff and take care of it. I
just also want to mention Lizzie is like at the
time of that we're moving into now is like thirty

(15:27):
years old. So she and her sister are both still
living at home, so she's like thirty and her sister
would be like forty, unmarried, still living with her parents,
which was unusual for the time. I think once you
hit the age of like twenty five, you're too old
to get married and you're a spinster. Spinster. Yeah, so

(15:48):
just wanted to say, so, in this house, you've got
Emma Lizzie both grown adults, yes, Abby Andrew, and they
have a maid named Bridget. Okay. Also, so the maid
is named Bridget Sullivan. She testimony, I think is really
important in the trial. Later on, she would say that
Emma and Lizzie rarely ate meals with their parents or

(16:11):
things like that, which, like I guess is fine, but
just I'm surprised though, since they all did still lived
together that they wouldn't still have like what are you
gonna do? Go play video games in your bedroom? Like
you know what I mean, there's nothing to do right.
Also Bridget, So Bridget had been working for the Burdens
for like three years, but Emma and Lizzie still called
her Maggie, which was the name of their previous maid,

(16:32):
which I think I mentioned during one of your yeah,
your cases that's not cunty at all, right, And if
I was Bridget, I just would not respond, you know
what I mean? Right, like free, that's not my name,
but she says christ Okay. In May of night, Nope.
In May of eighteen ninety two, Andrew killed multiple pigeons
in his barn with a hatchet, believing that they were

(16:52):
attracting local children to hunt them. Like I think some
boys had broken into their barn to kill these pigeons.
But Lizzie had recently built a roost for the pigeons,
and it's commonly recounted that she was really upset over him. Yeah,
killing them? Was she? Was? She not? It's really hard
to say, but I can imagine that, Like, like you said,
you can't go play video games yet, fucking nothing to do,
and then you've got these pet birds outside and your dad, right,

(17:15):
especially if you built like a roof. Yeah, she was
like taking care of them, and then all of a
sudden he's like Nope. Also, how the fuck did you
kill him with the hatchet? Are you like catching first
and that you would have to? Right? Yeah, I guess
I'm still that seems like a lot of work. The children,
they have nothing to do. Okay. So there was a
family argument in July of eighteen ninety two, which prompted

(17:37):
both sisters to take an extended vacation in New Bedford, Massachusetts,
after returning to Fall River a week before the murders.
Lizzie chose to stay in a local rooming house for
four days before going back to the family home. What
kind of Emma went to visit some people in fair
Haven after they both left New Bedford. So they leave
New Bedford, Lizzie goes back to Fall River. Emma goes

(17:59):
to fair Haven and she wouldn't return to Fall River
until after the murders. Okay, So she's gone and we
have no clue why they well, okay. So tensions had
been growing within the Borden family in these months building
up to the murders, especially over Andrew's gifts of real
estate to various branches of Abbey's family. Abby's sister received

(18:20):
a house. Emma and Lizzie demanded and received a rental property,
which was a home that they lived in until their
mother died. They purchased it from their father for a dollar.
I guess, oh, okay, because they were mad, like you're
selling off all of the real estate to to Abby's
family are what are we going to be left with? Right?
What about us? Yeah? We are spinster's and never going

(18:42):
to grow up and get married, right, They're going to
grow up They're like our age. I know. That's like
I fully understand, like people like if something you choose
is not to get married or have kids or whatever,
obviously not something I would have done myself, but like,
I fully understand the support that I just it's so
such a different time than like when that was like

(19:02):
the expectations, and usually by this point they probably would
have been like married off rather than like having a choice,
you know what I mean, Because you're old enough, don't
you don't need to be at home anymore? Yeah? What
are you still doing? Right? A few weeks before the murders,
they sold this property back to their father for five
thousand dollars, which is about one hundred and seventy five
grand in twenty twenty five money. Okay, so they were like, oh,

(19:24):
why just wanted the money. They wanted the money instead
of taking care of this. I bet I bet he's like, here,
I'll give you a rental house. Go ahead, see what
you can do it? Run it out take care of it. Yeah,
and then they were like, actually no, we would rather
have the money. On August second, Abby Borden went to
the doctor to complain about a severe stomach ache and

(19:45):
said she thought she might have been poisoned, but the
doctor was skeptical, probably because she was a woman. And
I think so their family doctor lived like across the
street from them. That's nice. So she just went over
and was like, yeah, hey, I don't I think I'm
being poisoned. Yeah. At this time, the whole family with
what was likely food poisoning caused by leftover mutton stew
that had been left out for several days, because like

(20:07):
refrigeration at this time is not I think probably food
poisoning was everybody had trash can stomach back then. Trash
cans or food poisoning might be a little bit more
what am I trying to say, prevalent back then? Yeah,
that makes youre's like leaving stuff out and like reheating it.
I've had food poisoning once in my life and I

(20:27):
felt like dying. Yeah, well it was terrible. I guess
Lizzie only got mildly sick during this. She was just
a little tiny bit food poisoned well, but she didn't
often eat with them, so maybe she just didn't eat,
or like she was just eating pears that were covered
in her dead shit. Oh, I'm sorry, we're fertilizing. Maybe

(20:51):
that's how he was doing, fertilizing the tree. No, not
not appropriate, was me. No, fertilizing the tree with human shit. Okay,
we have to move on from the tree, okay, okay.
On August third, Lizzie went to a drug store and

(21:12):
tried to purchase some prussic acid. She said to clean
her seal skin cape, which is a weird sentence. Seal
skin like the animal. Yeah, a cape made of an animal, Okay,
the seal. I didn't know that. Well, they're I mean,
fall River is it's not like on the coast. Is
it on the coast, but it's it's close enough, yeah,

(21:32):
I assume. But still I just never like fox, like
rabbit whatever, like you know, like that's a common thing.
I never realized that people packed up seals for their
coats too. So the symptoms of acute prussic acid poisoning
range from headaches, shortness of breath, disneyness, convulsions, coma, and death.
Jesus Okay, so this is a cleaning agent. I'm assuming

(21:54):
since she used it. So prussic acid and cyanide turns
out are like the same thing. There are different names
for the same chemical compound hydrogen cyanide. Prussic acid is
more of a historical term. I guess, okay, so basically cyanide. Also,
when I look that up, I got the same message
that you got when you're looking at arsenic poisoning, was like,
get help. I'm like, I wish send it, not the

(22:15):
help we need. Okay. Back to August third, So Lizzie
goes to try to get some pressic acid the Druggist
pharmacists they call them. The druggist said, no, okay, that's
not what we use that for, you, silly little woman.
I guarantee he said that too. So then she goes

(22:38):
to visit her friend Alice Russell, and she talks very
forebodingly about what's going on in the household. She says
she fears that they're being poisoned, that her father has enemies,
and that she's been she has seen suspicious characters around
the family house. And she said, I'm afraid someone will
do something like me. Oh, She's like, man, I just

(23:00):
have this really weird feeling. Man, I just got back
from the drug Guess they would not sell me this
chemical that I was supposedly using to clean something that
is not used for. But I have also just seen
some really sketchy people around. Do you think that they
might have had that around the house? It maybe hold
on because well I didn't even I have not even
thought about this, And that's why she was going back
to get more, to try to get more because she'd

(23:22):
been like slowly poisoning them. That is a theory. That
is a I mean, and it is a solid theory, like, well,
the what I had didn't get the job done, didn't
clean that seal coat cape whatever was. Yeah, I think
that's a strong possible that could be why she was
going out there. That's why she went back for the
same thing, but didn't have the appropriate excuse for wanting

(23:43):
to buy it, right, She's like, can I get some
cyanide to clean my jacket? Also, why are we just
so freely giving that out? If we have to ask
for it. It doesn't sound like they were freely giving
it out because he was like, yeah, ma'am, that's a
poison question mark. If she was like, our house is
infested with rats, she probably could have gotten something or

(24:04):
pigeons they weren't. I wasn't infested with pigeons anymore. I'm
saving this comment hopefully if I remember it for in
a little bit, Sarah will not remember it. Okay, So
around dinner time, John Vinacum Morse arrives to stay with
the Burdons. I wanted you to say the name again,
John Vinnacum moorsevinnam Okay, yeah, all right, So he is

(24:25):
Lizzie's birth mother's brother, which is a really long way
for me to say he's Lizzie's uncle. Thank you. I
would not have if you said uncle, I would not
have connected those dots. He was said to arrive like mysteriously,
with no ex with no explanation, okay, and with just
like no change of clothes, no anything, just showed up,

(24:47):
just pop up and be like, hey, I'm staying the night. However,
it seems like John visited the Burdens kind of frequently
in the two years leading up to the murders, and
it was not uncommon for him to show up unplanned
for a quick overnight visit. Okay, it's just like the
old tiny rumor thing, you know, where they this suspicious
guy showed up blah blah blah, Which it doesn't really
seem like that that was the case. Well, I mean,

(25:09):
it sounds like they were still possibly close with their
birth mother said at the family you know passed away,
Andrew did some like business dealings with John, so he
was just a short train ride away, and like I
just said, didn't always send word ahead that he was coming.
But if you randomly popped up at my house and
expected to stay the night, I guess you're cleaning your
own goddamn room because it's a mess right now. You

(25:30):
wouldn't let me spend the night, there's for sure, but absolutely,
but go clean your room. My kids probably for sure
has wrap ourself. We're hit in that room, our spare room,
because for some reason, even though he has a TV
in his own room, he has to go watch it
in the spare room instead of naturally. I don't question
what kids do. No, okay, go ahead. So John also
or it said that John also kept up correspondence with

(25:51):
Lizzie's older sister Emma. Didn't really like it. Seems like
I don't know they all wrote letters to each other
or whatever, but he didn't really write Lizzie as often.
Well it sounds like but like if you're closer to
one than the other, Yeah, like that happens. It just
seems like he probably in Emma's letter said tell Lizzie,
I said Hi, right, like whatever. So a week before this,

(26:13):
Andrew had been in contact with John about a man
who he said was qualified to manage the family's Swansea farm.
So this is one of the family's properties that I think.
I don't know if it was like John and Andrew
owned it or something. They had all kinds of little
business ventures. Yeah's going on. Andrew was just kind of
dabbling in a little of everything seemed to be working

(26:33):
for him. It's got fucking a ten million dollar estate,
so and chaos, because that's a lot of pots to
be stirring. Don't bring up the pots and pales again.
So Andrew had insisted that John come to talk to
him in person, and on the afternoon of August third,
John arrived without his luggage or a change of clothes,

(26:54):
which everyone thought was fucking weird but I don't think
is fucking weird. And he got there just as Andrew
and Abbey were finishing their dinner. So at the later trial,
John would produce on the witness stand Andrew's letter that
asked him to come to Fall River to talk about whatever.
Apparently John also wanted to do some oxen trading in Swansea,

(27:15):
and Andrew had asked him to bring eggs. What they
were like in this letter like a whole super boring.
Imagine having time to write a letter to ask somebody
to bring eggs. I mean, like, obviously you have the
time they write the letter, but like the post goes
through the post, yes, bring eggs. It's like me sending
my husband attack saying like any of this for dinner,
bring it? Yeah, But the post is so much slower

(27:35):
than a text. True, So you need to really plan
that out. John's coming next week. How many eggs do
we have? I've got five bigs left. I can stretch
these out until he gets here, right, Okay, So John
gets there, they catch up a little bit. Andrew says,
when they were to say they were finishing supper, but
then Andrew invites him back for dinner. I think supper

(27:56):
is like lunch. Yes, is that? Yes? Okay, It's very
commonly use back on and what it's used to be
confusing to me because depending on who you're talking to,
some people would use it interchangeably for dinner. You can't
thought most people. How can you have a timeline for it? Okay?
John is like, I've got some running around to do.
I want to visit some people here. Andrew's like, you

(28:17):
want to come back for supper, dinner, for second lunch,
and John says no, he was hoping to catch a
meal with another relative while he was out here. John
leaves and he comes back around eight forty five, just
as Andrew was settling down with his newspapers in the
sitting room. As the two men talked, Lizzie returned from

(28:37):
her visit with her friend Alice Russell, but they didn't
see her come in. Instead, they just heard the door
close and footsteps going up to her room, so she
didn't come in and say hi. She wasn't like hey,
uncle John, Yeah, nice, see ya okay whatever. She would
later say that she just didn't feel good from the
food poisoning, right, okay, yeah, because she also had the

(28:57):
supposed to food poisoning. Right. So the two men continued
the conversation and there is speculation that Lizzie's. Because Lizzie's
room was like right over the sitting room, she could
have heard their conversation. Okay, which I mean, like you
said no video games. Yeah, I'm listening to the business conversation.
I don't know if you ever had this like when
you were kids, but like we had. Are you going
to say their registers where you like listen through? Yep? Okay, okay.

(29:22):
The next day, at seven am, Abby, Andrew, and John
have breakfast together. For breakfast, there was some mutton, some broth,
some Johnny cakes, which I meant to look that up,
but I'm thinking like the hush puppy things coffee and cookies,
I think molasses cookies, and the broth was mutton broth.
Can't get away from that mutton. Are you looking it up? Yes,
because I know I'm very curious. Johnny cake, Oh fluffy

(29:46):
and buttery. Oh so kind of like a cake corn bread?
Oh so like a pancake made out of corn bread. Okay.
Also I feel like I wouldn't like that texture. Yeah, okay. Afterwards, Afterwards, Afterwoods, Morris,
and Andrew went to the sitting room while Abby began
her normal house cleaning chors brigit Sullivan is cleaning up dinner. Nope, breakfast,

(30:09):
We're at breakfast. Now we're at breakfast. It's cleaning up breakfast.
She goes into the backyard to throw up, probably because
of the old mutton, and then Abby tells Bridget to
clean the windows inside and out because it was obviously
the perfect choor when you have food poisoning. Also, it's
August in New England, hot, sticky, muggy, yuck. Yeah, and

(30:29):
you just threw out in your sick to your stomach's
serving the sameton that gave us food poisoning. It sounds
like it like everyone's sick. Everyone's still sick, they're still
eating the Sagehn welcome, we are all serving food poisoning.
But I didn't read anywhere that like John got sick
after Okay, maybe Bridget maybe fresh button so there'd be
less food poisoning. I don't know, really, it probably wasn't

(30:53):
food poisoning, right, perfect chor when you have food poisoning,
I would I didn't write this in there either. I
was gonna say maybe did it because she was mad?
That is something that some people think, but like the
inside not crazy to ask you to clean well, doing
inside and out. Yeah, that's a lot. And the windows
back then didn't flip inside like mine do, right, Like

(31:14):
you have to climb a ladder and go outside and
to grub windows. No, thank you? Okay. So John Morse
leaves for the day. He's going to visit some more
family and like his cousins or something I read who
was it does does not matter. There was somebody, some
family that was coming in from Minnesota. According to Bridget,
Lizzie has a light breakfast around nine o'clock, just cookies

(31:35):
and coffee. No old mutton, Lizzie, you know she poisoned them.
Lizzie claims to not remember what she ate though, like
later on in her testimony, which is fine, I what
did I eat yesterday? I have no idea. Same. A
few minutes later, Andrew leaves the home, taking some letters
with him that Lizzie asked him to mail. I think
she wrote a letter to her sister in fair Haven.

(31:57):
They've been apart for several days, which I'm like, what
was it? That letter? Right? And I took again. It's
just let the letters fascinate me for some reason. That's
just such a different thing. I read a letter that
Lizzie sent to some some friend. Like when I was
looking so much, I was like, oh, what was the say?
And it was from like two years before this or whatever,
so it said nothing I saw a bird fly by today,

(32:17):
basically if I want to know what this one said about. Yeah,
so apparently spoiler alert, Abby and Andrew are about to
be murdered. No Emma, I know, like everyone knows this story.
Emma is away in fear Haven and Lizzie writes her
a letter, sends Andrew to the post office to my letter,
Abby and Andrew get murdered, and then they call for

(32:38):
Emma to come back. So then in Lizzie's testimony I
read that she said that letter got returned to the house.
I wondered what happens in those instances, Like if she's
not there, they just returned to send her. But what
did the letter say. I'm sure, Lizzie, I don't want
to do Okay, hold on, let me we're like so close.
I know. Around nine thirty, Abby she went upstairs to

(33:01):
continue her house cleaning on the second floor, so I
think she was straightening up the guest bedroom. She was
not expecting the uncle John to be staying another night.
I think she had more company coming in in a
couple of days. She wanted that room all picked up
and closed up so that she didn't have to worry
about it. And Bridget Sullivan goes outdoors start cleaning the
windows for the next hour. In her testimony, she describes

(33:23):
how she washes all of the windows, going around the house,
only leaving to go fillip her pail in the barn
or back to the kitchen for whatever, supplies, brushes, whatever,
And she didn't see anybody creeping around the house. I
did read in one I read somewhere that she might
have stopped cleaning to like talk to the neighbor's maid,
probably bitching, like, can you believe these fucking people can't

(33:43):
even say my name. I've got food poisoning threw up
in the yard, and I'm coming the outside of these windows.
It's in the eighty plus degree. It's fucking disgusting out. Also,
just keep in mind, she's cleaning all the windows in
like second story, so she like she can see and
side the house during all of this, doesn't see anybody
inside or outside the house. Yeah, At around eleven, Andrew

(34:06):
Borden returns home. He had a small package with him,
I guess, and the door was locked, so he had
to use the bell or knock to get in, and
he was kind of put out by it, like they
never that door was not locked like that, it was locked,
annoy that even if he used his key he couldn't
get in, so it's like locked coming inside. Bridget Sullivan
says that she said a swear word hushaw. What the
fuck is that? Apparently it's for word from back then,

(34:28):
I don't know. And then she let Andrew into the
that so she's like, what the fuck. I have to
stop what I'm doing to go, Like I know that
door was not locked. I have to go fucking let
Andrew in. Oh so can he not walk around to
the back door? She can walk around to the back door.
I don't know. She might have been like in the
kitchen or something. And then she says that she heard
like a muted laugh coming from the stairs. So like, Lizzie,

(34:49):
here's the knock or the bell or however, Andrew's like,
can you guys let me in yet? Like what the fuck?
Bridget's annoyed. Lizzie thinks it's funny, but Bridget says that
the laugh is coming from the upstairs air yeah, okay, okay,
and she's thirty something. Yeah, it seems very childish, does well.
That's that's why I wanted to make sure, I said
at the beginning, they she's thirty something. Yeah, it's just

(35:11):
very like that is something that my child is absolutely yeah,
because haha, it's funny. But I will also say, like
there's fucking nothing to do. It's true, like she was
domesticating pigeons. Pigeon, Yeah, that's true. That you come up
with whatever fun you can and laughing at your dad
outside the door, I guess, is it but from upstairs allegedly, right,

(35:36):
because you don't want also be the one to let
him in, right, I don't want to spoil this. But
who else is upstairs? Abby? Right? Maybe Abby laughed? Maybe
she's like, hah, fuck you cleaning the sky damn house.
I don't know. I never considered that. Just that Bridget
said that it was well last on character references that
we've had so far, it does make more sense that
it would be Lizzie to lock the door and laugh

(35:58):
about it. Okay, So Lizzie visit It's with her father
briefly in the dining room, she told him that Abby
had received a message and left the house. Okay. Light
detectors determined Bridget is now washing windows inside the house.
She and Lizzie were both in the dining room. She
said Lizzie was doing some ironing and they were like chatting.
In Lizzie's testimony, she says that she got things out

(36:19):
to iron her best handkerchiefs Okay, yeah, don't want those wrinkly,
and the flats for her iron weren't hot enough, so
she had to go back to the kitchen. Okay, So
she didn't actually do the ironing, she was in there
setting it up or whatever. So they're doing this, Andrew
goes into like the sitting room and they've got this
lounge chair. You can picture it. I'm where the back
goes like well, like one of those yeah. Yes, for

(36:42):
anybody not watching the video, it's what I picture like
when you picture a therapist office, even though it's not
realize like an old chase lounge. Is that what they're called.
But that's like all of the memes or movies like
they there. If you have seen any pictures from this case,
you have seen the couch. I you' know if I
have honestly, or if I paid attention. Well, so he goes.

(37:03):
He's like, I'm going to rest here for a little
bit whatever. So he's taking a little snooze because he
also has the food poisoning right. So Lizzie told Bridget
that there was some sale on fabric downtown fabric or
dresses unclear to me whatever, and Bridget is like, yeah,
maybe i'll go check it out, and Lizzie reminds her
to lock the door behind her if she goes out,
because Lizzie's like, there's prowlers up. I'm probably leaving soon.

(37:28):
Abby's gone. Who knows what Dad's doing. He's taking a nap.
If you leave, can please lock the door. So Bridget
finishes the windows and she goes to her room in
the attic to rest. She's like, fuck the fish. I
just been scrubbing windows in the heat, not going for dress.
It's nap time, yes, So she says she's up there
for like ten or fifteen minutes. Like she says, she
hears like the town bell ringing, Yeah, it's eleven or

(37:53):
just after eleven whatever. She's up there for ten to
fifteen minutes, and then she hears Lizzie calling to her saying, Maggie,
come down quick. Father's dead. Someone came in and killed him.
Also the use of Maggie instead of her name, just
so she's like, sorry, Maggie, is you tad by yourself?

(38:16):
Bridget goes downstairs and Lizzie tells her not to go
in the room where her father is and why'd you
call her downstairs? She was panicked, so she said that
they needed a doctor, so she sends Bridget across the
street to get doctor Bow and the family doctor okay,
and Bridget like in this interaction, is like what were
you doing? Like where were you? And she said because

(38:42):
she said that she could have sworn she locked the
door before she went upstairs. So she's like, how did
anybody get in here at? Like what were you doing?
And Lizzie said that she was in the backyard he
heard a groan and came inside to see the screen
door wide open and her father dead. Bridget goes together
docor she comes back. Then Lizzie sends Bridget to go

(39:03):
get Alice Russell. She's like, I can't be alone in
this house? Can you go get Alice? Before the doctor?
Like the doctor wasn't over there yet, sending bridget away
is leaving you alone in the house, right, Yeah. Maggie
doesn't do it though, because she's not actually Maggie. No.
Bridget goes runs around, so she leaves again, finds Alice Russell,
returns back to the house. The doctor gets there and

(39:23):
confirms that Andrew is dad. No, after twenty five hours
of him laying on the floor. It was actually like,
relatively no, he's on the couch. So Andrew was slumped
on the couch in the downstairs sitting room. He had
been struck ten or eleven times with a hatchet like weapon.
One of his eyes had been split cleanly intwo and

(39:48):
the way that he was positioned suggested that he had
been asleep when he was attacked. His wounds were still bleeding,
and it suggested that like this shit just happened, right,
because you don't bleathe after you, like not actively. It's
not like yeah yeah, So people with all the commotion
and Bridget running around yelling that mister Borden was dead
or whatever, people start coming out of their houses and

(40:10):
coming to the street and whatever. So looking through the
crime scene. Yeah. Adelaide Churchill, who was a neighbor, had
also shown up during all this, and Lizzie told her
that she was in the barn looking for lead sinkers
for an upcoming fishing trip at the time of the murder. Okay,
I feel like we could have come up with a
better excuse. Well, she told Bridgete she was just in
the backyard, right. So, according to Bridget's testimony, she told

(40:33):
Lizzie that if she knew where missus Borden had gone,
she would go get her to be like, you have
to come back your husband. Your husband's been assaulted, hatcheted
to death. Also, this is my second case in a row.
That's a hatch okay. But Lizzie's like, oh no, Maggie,
I am almost positive I heard her come back. Will
you go upstairs and see? And Bridgette is like, no, no,
like she would have already heard all this commotion. I'm

(40:55):
not going upstairs alone. What the fuck? Right? So Bridget
and adelaide the neighbor go upstairs, and as they're going
up the stairs, bridget saw Abby's body under or kind
of beside a bed in the spare bedroom. Okay, so
like as you're coming up, the doors open. Yeah. So,
according to the forensic investigation, Abby was facing her killer
at the time of her attack. She was first struck

(41:17):
on the side of the head with a hatchet like weapon,
which cut her just above the ear, causing her to
turn and fall face down on the floor. This created
contusions on her nose and forehead, and her killer had
struck her multiple times, delivering seventeen more direct hits to
the back of her head Jesus obviously killing her. It
was determined that she was killed when she initially went
upstairs around nine to ten thirty that morning to do

(41:40):
her her chores. I think they determined that by like
the later autopsy, like what was in their stomach digested right,
jokes on them. My stomach doesn't work, so they wouldn't
be able to tell. Detectives estimated that Andrew's death had
occurred at around eleven am. Again, his wounds were still Yeah,

(42:00):
so dozens of policemen are in and out of the house.
I think this was like the B team of the policeman.
I think there was some It was like Policeman's day
at the fair or something. So we just get the left.
I think, hold on, I'm gonna have to cut this.
It's so funny when I know, like all these random facts,
but they don't pop up when I'm researching. I just don't.
They don't know if that happen. Maybe it's a different

(42:22):
case than they have quite a few. I've got a
lot of weird stuff going on in my head. Okay,
So there's dozens of policemen in and out of the
board and home doctors. So the family doctor from across
the road performs a postmortem autopsy on the bodies on
their dining room table, Okay, which I don't think is

(42:44):
crazy for the time. I guess you could have done
it on your own dinner. We couldn't have gone somewhere else.
I still eat dinner there later. Yeah, this is still
like a house. Lizzie is interrogated by Deputy Marshall Fleet.
Lizzie is a parent, speaking in like a detached manner,
and when Fleet called Abby Lizzy's mother, Lizzie and siss quote,

(43:07):
she is not my mother, she is my stepmother. Could
be shocked, could be you know. She's like, Yeah, it's
like the classic case of you're not reacting or grieving
in the way that I want you to. So I
think it's weird. Yeah, that's kind of how I was thinking. Like,
because you can't really dictate how somebody's going to it. Like,
I would like to think that I would know how
i'd react in a crazy situation, but I think I

(43:30):
would be pretty not hysterical. No, I'm usually very detached
in the moment. Yeah, and then later on, when I
have time to process, then I'm a fucking mass, right, So, like,
I don't know. Her initial answers to police officers questions
were weird and contradictory. Initially, she reported hearing a groan
or a scraping noise, also described it as a distress

(43:51):
call before entering the house. Two hours later, she totally
she had heard nothing and entered the house not realizing
anything was wrong. Most of the officers who interview Lizzie
reported that they disliked her attitude, and some said she
was too common poised. Despite her behavior and changing alibis,
she wasn't checked out really for bloodstains. Police did search
her room, but it was just a cursory inspection, and

(44:13):
at the trial they admitted to not doing a proper
search because Lizzie was not feeling well. Okay, what a
valid reason to not do your job appropriately? Well, maybe
she was like you know what, guys, I think I
might have the flu. You probably don't want to come
near me, right, I've got some leftover mutton you guys
can join in on. Also, now you said that about typhoid,
I'm wondering because they in the autopsies, I do say this. Later,

(44:33):
they the bodies were tested for poison and none was found. Like,
I wonder if they had like something like typhoid, anything
like that. The time and sand story hits that they
were still using in that home. Yeah, in the basement,
Lise found two hatchets, two axes, and a hatchet head
with a broken handle. The hatchet head was suspected of

(44:53):
being the murder weapon. As they said, the break in
the handle appeared fresh, and there was like ash and
dust on the head that looked like it had been
deliberately applied to make it look like it had been
in the basement for that whole time. None of these
tools were removed from the house during this initial search.
I mean, yeah, you you for sure want to leave

(45:14):
the murder weapons there so they can be tampered with.
That's the best protocol for like a crime scene. Yeah,
just to leave ever naturally. Yeah, they also saw a
pail of like rags, soaking and bloody water. Okay, but
Lizzie said she was on her period and the police
were like, ow, oh my god, gross, don't talk about that, goodbye.

(45:36):
She was not bound up like an egg their chicken like. Okay. So,
because of the mysterious illness that had stricken the household
before the murders, the family's milk and the victim's stomachs
were removed during the autopsies and tested for poison, but
none was found. I don't know why they went straight
for the milk and not like the mutton. Again, I

(45:58):
would think maybe, like typhoid was such a big thing, right,
So maybe that's because remember in my type of Mary case,
they tested the milk first in the one place. Oh yeah,
that's true. Yeah, but I don't think they tested it
for typhoid. When was this in comparison to that? Oh,
don't ask me that, where are you typhoid? Mary? I
do that on this computer. I feel like that was

(46:19):
like nineteen ton Yeah, but like obviously typhoid was already Yeah,
but like when they were looking up to see are
you googling typhoid? Mary? Google? She was initially arrested in
nineteen oh seven. Okay, so yeah, so like twenty years later,
maybe it's before they knew what typhoid was could be. Yeah, no,
it's fine. Okay. So sometime in the afternoon, John Morris

(46:42):
comes back to like a billion people in police at
the house. He was like, this is no big deal.
He went to the backyard, grabbed a pair asually went
to the side door, just eating his shit covered fruit,
just like I'm assuming somebody you told him, like what happened?
Nobody said it. He does just to the crowd, and
nobody says he said that. He didn't realize that something

(47:02):
was wrong until he got to the side door and
there's a police officer guarding the door, and Bridget Sullivan
was sitting on the stairs behind him, is what I
read in one of the things. So the officer guarding
the door was like, hey, so get the fuck out
with your ship. Pair. There's been some murder. What have
you been doing all day? Yeah? So he gets John's story.
John's like, hey, I'm his brother in law. He runs
him down the list of stuff that he does. He

(47:23):
even remembered the street car number that he wrote that day,
which people thought was weird, but maybe if you need
to remember it to get back or something. I don't know.
Then John went inside to see the bodies and helped
police search the house. Okay, he even speculated that maybe
the killer could have been hiding in the house the
night before, because I guess there was some unsolved murder

(47:46):
from that area where that happened, which I wish I
could look that up, but I didn't see what it was.
In the light of John's mysterious appearance appearance at the
house the day before, the business talks with Andrew in
his background as a trained butcher, and also like how
we just went over to the pear tree grabbed a
pair while the house crawled with police. There was like

(48:07):
some public suspicion, right, you know, put on him, like
you're acting a little weird, very suss the children would say,
children don't say that anymore. God, I'm so outdated. I
don't know what they say. So Alice Russell decides, you know,
the police do their curse research and all that, and Bridget,
John and Lizzie are all going to stay in the

(48:28):
house that night. So Alice is like, hey, I'll come
over and stay. How about we with you too? Can
we go to Alice Lee. Why people just died here?
There's also why would the police let them stay there?
Because they left the fucking axes in the basement because
her blood period was in a bucket next to it. Okay,
so they're staying there apparently, So it's One source says

(48:51):
that John Moore spent the night in a guest room
that was in the attic. Later accounts say that he
slept in the spare bedroom where Abby was murdered. Unclear
which room he stayed in, but either way, like I
would not if his entire persona is true, I strive
for that amount of not my problem, Like, how do
you just I don't know, There's so much happening here

(49:12):
and you're just chill as fuck? Okay. So they did
have police stationed around the house that night, okay. And
during that time, an officer said that he had seen
Lizzie enter the cellar with Alice Russell, carrying a kerosene
lamp and a slot pail. He said that both women
exited the cellar and then Lizzie returned alone. Later he

(49:34):
was unable to see what she was doing, but he
said that she was bent over the sink. So now
news is out and reportedly there were like hundreds of
people outside of the house. The day that the murders happened,
newspapers ran the story with the headline quote shocking crime.
A venerable citizen and his aged wife hacked to pieces

(49:54):
in their home. He chaid wife. Yeah, So I was like, well,
exactly how old were they? Right? Right? So? Abby was
sixty four and Andrew was seventy. So like, I don't
know why we're being rude about her age? Right? Did
that is she was just murdered? Could we not be nicer?
Apparently not? No, So I was like, that is some
rude shit. That's the definition of rouge. Police came to

(50:19):
the conclusion that the murders must have been committed by
someone within the board and home. No shit, Sherlock. They
were puzzled by the lack of blood anywhere except for
like the bodies of the victims and bucket in the basement.
We're forgetting about the period buck in the basement because
that's gross and we don't talk about it, Okay, right, Okay,
So they're puzzled by the lack of blood anywhere except

(50:40):
the bodies of the victims and their inability to uncover
any obvious murder weapon. I guess the hatchets and axes
in the basement do not count. I was gonna say
the Clusterfuck now, they don't count with them, Okay. Increasingly
suspicion turned toward Lizzie, since Emma was out of the
home at the time of the murders and she was being,
as you said, a little suss. Yeah. Investigation found it

(51:00):
really weird that Lizzie knew so little about her stepmothers.
Whereabouts after nine o'clock when according to Lizzie, she had
gone upstairs to put shams on the pillows, like that's
and then she's like, I don't know, she probably left.
She took twelve hours to go put shams on pillows, which, honestly,
putting new shees on a bed is right up there
with laundry for me, which is like the worst fucking

(51:21):
thing possible. True. They also found it kind of unbelievable
that during the fifteen minutes that Andrew Borden was murdered
in the living room, Lizzie was out in the backyard
barn looking for irons the fishing This waiter for the
upcoming fishing trip. The barn left where she said she looked.
The police said didn't have any footprints on the dusty floor,

(51:43):
and it was like a thousand degrees in there, So
they said that it was likely that would discourage anyone
from spending more than a few minutes searching for fishing
equipment that wouldn't be used for days. They were like,
why would you be in there right now, Like there's
a better time, Maybe it's gonna rain tomorrow or first
thing in the morning when it's not eight thousand degrees right.
Theories about like a male intruder were reconsidered, but one

(52:05):
this is like just leading physician of the area. I
don't know who said this, but they said that hacking
is almost a positive sign of a deed by a
woman who is unconscious of what she's doing. Did she
have the hysteria need to be masturbated by a doctor?
How Why was she unconscious of what she was doing? Oh? Wait,
they do. There is a theory that Lizzie did it

(52:27):
and she was having seizures from her period and she
was in like a fugue state. I think I get
into it, okay, but I'll keep my If I don't
really get into it, we'll talk about it at the end.
That's it. And I looked it up and apparently you
can have seizures with your period. I would think that
it's probably like somebody who who's like prone to seizures that. Yeah,

(52:48):
but like because like with my fiberologia and my pots,
my symptoms do get worse around my period, So I'd
assume that it would be the same for like epilepsi us. Yeah,
it's like with the horimonal changes can trigger. But I
don't see period just like, oh, I know I'm happy
my period because I'm seizing right now, you know what
I mean, Like, yeah, it happened. But I think what
they're saying is like you kind of have seizures, although
she doesn't have like a history of having like epilepsy

(53:10):
or anything like that. But then after you have a seizure,
you can go into a fugue state. Yeah, and then
you don't know what you're doing that. John Morse left
the board in residence but was mobbed by hundreds of
people and police had to escort him back into the house.
So he's like trying to It's like I'm gonna ye,
I'm like i gotta go home. This is crazy, the
chill has worn off. He is ready to bounce. Yeah,
he's like goodbye. Nope, just kidding. He can't leave. The

(53:32):
following day, police conducted a more thorough a more thorough
search of the house, inspecting the sister's clothing and confiscating
the broken handled hatchet head. And then that evening a
police officer and the mayor visited the house and Lizzie
was informed that she was a suspect in the murders.
Why the mayor? Why not? Okay, okay. Then the next morning,

(53:52):
Alice Russell enters the kitchen to find Lizzie tearing up
a dress she Lizzie said that she was gonna put
it in the fire because it was covered in paint.
As one does, you know, don't want to keep that
dress in case you have to paint again. No, why
it would take up so much room in her closet. Yes,
one paint dress, all of the room, so much room.
Dresses were big back then. It was never determined whether

(54:13):
this was the dress that she had been wearing on
the day of the murders, but people would testify that
she was wearing a blue dress. Who does to those
people for like remembering what color dress she's wearing, because
well she probably have like three dresses true, like, oh,
she was wearing her nice blue dress that day. Okay, right, yep,
you're right, and like me, who has eight thousand different

(54:35):
black T shirts. Okay, So they have to have an
inquest hearing, okay, because they're planning on charging, you know,
to say, like, this is our evidence. Need is it
en Lizzie to testify? We need to pull these people
into other stories and figure out if we have enough
to charge. So Lizzie appeared at an inquest hearing on
August ninth. Her request to have her family attorney president

(54:57):
was refused under a state statue providing or no, just kidding,
saying that an inquest must be held in private. I
don't there's more on that later, Okay, I'll say what
we're in the late eighteen hundredths. Okay, that's all laws.
Weren't you have to do the Miranda case at that
to your list? Damn? Because that was in like the
nineteen sixties. Lizzie had been prescribed regular doses of morphine

(55:19):
to calm her nerves by a family doctor who lived
across the street. Okay, wait, before the inquest, yeah, smart drug?
Her drug her up? Was it smart? Though? Because her
testimony was said to be pretty affected by this, her
behavior was kind of erratic, and she often refused to
answer questions, even if the answer could be beneficial to her.
She would contradict herself and provide an alternating accounts of

(55:42):
the morning in question, like I read through this first
of all, very boring. I appreciate you reading through it
and not making me. Now I'm going to read it
to you in its entirety hours later, so she was
saying like she was in the kitchen reading a magazine
when her father got home, then saying she was in
the dining room doing some ironing, then saying she was
down the stairs, but then saying, just kidding, I don't
want you to know that I was upstairs. So I

(56:04):
wasn't upstairs. And then the prosecutor was like, where you know,
where was Abby and where was Bridget, like trying to
walk through the day, and Lizzy was like, dude, I
don't fucking know. Maybe they were up in this room.
And then the prosecutors like, but to get to that room,
they have to go up the backstairs, which is going
through the kitchen, So you would have seen them. Okay, Yeah,
so you saying Abbie might have been up in her

(56:25):
room for part of the morning doesn't make sense because
you literally would have had to cross paths. And she's
she wasn't a ghost at that point in time, right,
So like she just in it could have been from
the drugs, but it like it went back and forth.
So she goes through then she's like, for even the
little thing for breakfast, I don't remember what I ate
for breakfast. Actually I might have had a cookie, just kidding.

(56:45):
I was eating a pear, like a ship pear, not
the ship pair. I'm never gonna be able to look
at pairs the same again. No same. Ever, So during
this inquest, there was a question about a skirt she
was wearing. So I don't know exactly what all of
the different layers of clothing, Yeah, were you put a
big skirt under your dress or say the volume? I

(57:07):
don't fucking know. Okay, So there's a question about the
skirt slash maybe dress that she was wearing when she
got to the house. So it seems like she had
some blood on the skirt and police asked her about
it and she said it was a flea bite which
apparently is what they called their periods back then, Like
I have fleas means I'm on my period. The next
time I have my period, I'm just saying I have fleas.

(57:30):
Why are we coming up with the wildest waves to
just be like and having a normal bodily fund I
just really like that now we can just be like
I'm on my period. But back then it was like,
oh no, that's from a flea bite wink wink, right. Well,
and also like the fact that we're just I mean,
she's honestly, it was smart to use period as an
excuse for blood being everywhere, because men are fucking stupid

(57:50):
about periods now and at that point in time, so
police didn't question it any further, and the skirt or
dress was not taken into evidence, and then she was
burning a dress, right, not suspicious at all. Also, it's
always said that like Lizzie claimed to be on her period,
she claimed she had the fleas, which is like, why
why does it have to be like a gross right,

(58:12):
I have lice? Yeah, So it's always sad that she
claims to be on her period, and it's always said
this fact was confirmed by the family doctor. Did he
check what does that mean exactly? Well, she had hysteria
after her parents were murdered, so he had to masturbate her.
I did not read anywhere that there was I know,
I'm sorry. It just so vibrator flores me that that

(58:32):
used to be a thing, as like, oh my wife's
being here the hysterical, send her to the doctor, and
then well now we just have the devices at homes.
It's just steel so wild to me that that was
the thing, and that like did husbands know that they
were doing? I know, I am going off on a
tangent on this. I'm so sorry, but like, did husbands
know that that's what they're w and you on your
list that you're making of all the cases I'm demanding

(58:54):
also put the history of hysteria, history of masturbation. I
don't welcome to all of our new life. On August eleventh,
Lizzie was served with a warrant for arrest and she
was jailed. She entered a not guilty plea and she
was moved to a jail in Taunton, which is about
eight miles north of Fall River. On August twenty second,

(59:14):
Lizzie returned to a Fall River courtroom for her preliminary hearing.
At the end of this hearing, Judge Hosiah with the
Jay Josiah Jiah Hooseiah Jose. Judge Blaisdell pronounced her probably
guilty and ordered her to face a grand jury impossible

(59:34):
charges for the murder of her parents. So we're not
in a set until proven guilty. We're just throwned probably guilty,
go ahead, and tossed her in front of the jury.
In November, the grand jury met and then after first
refusing to issue an indictment, the jury reconvened and heard
some new evidence from Alice Russell. So at the first
time that they met, they didn't hear any testimony from

(59:56):
Alice Russell, okay, So Alice Russell then tells the grand
jurors that she she witnessed Lizzie burning a blue dress
in the kitchen, allegedly because it was paint. Coupled with
the earlier testimony from Bridget Sullivan, the maid who's not
named Maggie, that Lizzie was wearing a blue dress on
the morning of the murders, the evidence was enough to

(01:00:16):
convince the grand jury to indict Lizzie for the murder
of her parents. Well no correction or father and stepmother. Yeah,
but like she fucking raised you. So yeah, I know
it's wild to get over. I feel like she's acting
like a snotty teenager. Yeah, but she's dirty, yes, Like
what the fuck? All right? So Lizzie's trial took place

(01:00:36):
in New Bedford on June fifth, eighteen ninety three. The
prosecuting attorneys were Jose this is Hosee, Jose Hoose, j
Em Nolan, Well, we'll just change it and the future
and a future United States Supreme Court Justice William H. Moody.
The defense attorneys were Andrew Jennings, Melvin O. Adams, and

(01:00:58):
a former Massa Jusetts governor, Jorge Robinson. Okay, so she's
I mean, you have a former governor, you using daddy's
money to pay for all of the yeah attorneys. Okay,
But five days before the trial started, on June first,
another axe murder occurred in Fall River. The victim was
Bertha Manchester and she was found hacked to death in

(01:01:20):
her kitchen. The similarities between the Manchester and Border murders
were striking and noted by jurors, but Jose Correa de Melo,
a Portuguese immigrant, was later convicted of the Manchester's murder
in the next year, eighteen ninety four, So he had
his own separate trial obviously, and it was determined that
he was not in Fall River at the time of

(01:01:41):
the bord And murders, which goes back to like the
axemen of New Orleans thing, where could they all be?
You want them to be connected in the worst way, right,
But it's just it's just everybody has a hatchet right
laying around. Yeah. William Moody made the opening statements for
the prosecution, Okay, so he basically said, Lizzie wanted to
murder them, she planned it, she did murder them. She

(01:02:02):
went beyond planning, she actually did it. And third that
her behavior and contradictory testimony was not in line with
somebody who was innocent, Like we can prove through her
behavior and testimony that she did this because there's not
really any evidence besides the timeline. But also like you
can't really go off her behavior when you drugged her.
We don't want to talk about that because she was

(01:02:25):
hysterical on her period. Listen, I get being hysterical on
your period. Maybe she did do it because she was
on her period. Okay. So one big point of discussion
at the trial was the hatchet heead that was found
in the basement. It wasn't said to be the murder weapon.
They just said it could be the murder weapon. The
prosecutors argued that the killer could have removed the handle

(01:02:46):
because it was covered in blood. One officer testified that
a hatchet handle was found near the hatchet head, but
another officer contradicted this and said there wasn't a handle
of found near its or did their handle just break
as some point in time and they just chucked it
in the basement could also be then Alice Russell again
testified that she saw Lizzie burning that dress. The defense

(01:03:08):
never attempted to challenge that statement. They were like, yeah,
sure she burned that dress. It was covered in paint.
Who wants to paint covered dress? Not Lizzy? Right. So,
both of the victim's heads had been removed during autopsy,
and the skulls were admitted as evidence during the trial
and presented on June fifth. When Lizzie saw them in
the courtroom, she fainted. Yeah, and the crowd went wild.

(01:03:30):
That's barbaric. Yeah, I didn't put this in here, but
the guy who did the autopsies like waited a week
to do them or something. They did the initial autopsies
on the on the table, yeah, but then did the
actual like in depth the autopsy. Was he busy like
a week later? We just and I just think, like
it's August in New England. How I'm beginning to think

(01:03:54):
that Lizzie maybe didn't do this. You think the doctor did.
Who knows who did it, But just because she a
little odd and a spinster doesn't mean that she I
don't know, fainted in court over their heads. I mean
I would have too. That doesn't mean she didn't do it.
That's just wild to me that they like decapitated them
for yeah, and that's monthsly Sorry, they were murdered in

(01:04:15):
August and the it wasn't until November. Like that's a
lot of okay. I just like to show the wounds
to the skull and stuff. Evidence was excluded that she
tried to purchase that Prussic acid to clean that cloak,
like the judges like it doesn't really line up with anything, right.

(01:04:37):
I think when they tried to track to the pharmacist,
he wasn't completely sure which day it was maybe and
then it was argued that he could have had somebody
else mixed up with Lizzie right, So, they had several
witnesses testified for the state concerning the events in and
around the Boarden home on the morning of August fourth.

(01:04:58):
The most important of these witnesses was Bridget Sullivan. She
says that Lizzie was the only person she saw in
the home at the time her parents were murdered. She
did help the defense out a little bit, she said,
the Lizzie and Abby got along just fine. She said,
everything was pleasant. Lizzie and her mother always spoke to
each other. Other prosecution witnesses disputed this, and so like

(01:05:19):
Hannah Gifford made a garment for Lizzie a few months
before the murders, and she said in conversation, Lizzie called
her stepmother quote a mean, good for nothing thing and said, quote,
I don't have much to do with her. I stay
in my room most of the time. Okay, But could
that they have not just been like Lizzie was in
a pessy mood, wasn't getting along with Abby that day,

(01:05:41):
but like it's weird for Bridget to be like, oh no,
they got along fine. Like the whole time and then somebody,
because Bridget sees the day like the end and outs
of every day, right, so maybe she's like, I don't know,
I mind my own business. I'm sure they're fine. True,
maybe I'm staying out of it. They call me Maggie.
They can fuck all right. So Bridget also testified that
Andrew and Abbey experienced stomach pains before the murders, that

(01:06:03):
they were worried about being poisoned. Testified to the fact
that she opened the door for Andrew Borden after he
returned home from his walk around town, and described hearing
Lizzie's cry for help a few minutes after eleven when
she was upstairsresting. So just ran through through the day.
And John Moore testified about what he had going on
that day. The prosecutors called him up as a witness

(01:06:24):
to establish that Andrew Borden was intending to write a
new will and old will was never found or maybe
didn't exist. And John testified at first that Andrew had
told him that he had a will, but then testified
later that no, just kidding, He didn't say that, okay,
But then when he said that there was a will,
he said that the will would leave Emma and Lizzie

(01:06:44):
each twenty five thousand dollars in the remainder of mister
Borden's estate would go to Abby. Okay, they developed additional
motive saying that Andrew was going to sell a farm
to Abby, just like he had done the year before
with that duplex that was told to Abbie's family. I
think her sister. Yeah. So remember they said Lizzie could

(01:07:05):
have been listening to the conversation. So they're forming this
storyline where Lizzie's in the room above them while they're
having these business talks and she's finding out that she
almost everything's going to Abby. And then she decided to
write a letter to her sister and Hatchet. Her parents
stood death today today, I'm doing it right. The next
set of witnesses described events and conversations after the discovery

(01:07:28):
of the murders. Doctor Bowen, the bored and family physician
who was summoned to the home by Lizzie and Bridgett,
recounted Lizzie's story about looking for led sinkers in the
barn and her contention that her father's troubles with his
tenants probably had something to do with us so he
had rental properties and she was like, he's kind of
an asshole. Maybe one of them wanted to kill him.
On cross examination, the doctor agreed with the defensive suggestion

(01:07:52):
that the morphine he prescribed for Lizzie might have accounted
for some of the confusion and contradictory testimony she gave
at the inquest. And I was like, when we drugged
somebody atlie Churchill that one of the neighbors that came
over remembered Lizzie wearing a light blue dress with a
diamond figure on it, but said that she didn't see
any blood spots on it. I think it was like

(01:08:13):
but even but in that moment, like even if they did,
like she had gone to check on her father after
she found a bloodghended so late, right, but why would
you burn the dress after period? Please? She had fleas?
Please the paint Okay? So then Alice Russell takes the
stand and she described the visit from Lizzie the night
before the murders, where she announced that we're Lizzie now

(01:08:33):
she would soon be going on vacation and felt that
something was hanging over me. I cannot tell what it is.
And then, according to Alice, you know, described how her
parents were so sick, and then Lizzie said, I feel
afraid something is going to happen. Lizzie also told Russell
she wanted to go to sleep with one eye open
half the time for fear somebody might burn the house
down or hurt her father because he's so discourteous to people. Okay.

(01:08:56):
Then they went into the dress burning incident. In cross
examination at this point in the trial, the defense tried
to suggest it like a guilty person wouldn't just destroy
incriminating evidence out in the open like that? Or would they?
Or would they so? Alice also recounted a conversation she
had with Lizzie about the note that Abby had gotten,

(01:09:17):
like Abby had gotten a note, the message saying she
needs and then said she needed to leave. Yeah, yep, yeah.
I was like, whey are you looking at me like that,
and that the note was summoning Abby to go visit
a sick friend or something. Despite a search of a
thorough search of the home, the note was never found,
and Russell said that she sarcastically suggested to Lizzie that

(01:09:37):
her mother might have burnt the note, and then Lizzie
replied yes, she must have. Oh you know what, Yeah,
she did, she did she did burn that. Yeah. On
a side note, I did read somewhere that people suggest
that doctor Bowen did something with a note like burnt
it or whatever. But isn't it more likely that there
was just no note because hello, Abby was murdered upstairs
and never left, right, Like, there doesn't have to be

(01:09:59):
a note. There really wasn't enough time for her to leave,
go put shams on leave see the sick friend come
back and be murdered by ten thirty? Right? No, also
not walk by Lizzie as right. The defense also explored
holes in the prosecution's case. Where was the handle that
broke off the ax? We don't know, there's no murder weapon.

(01:10:19):
The defense also went into the timeline, which allowed from
eight to thirteen minutes between Andrew Borden's murder and Lizzie's
call to bridget. The defense tried to suggest that it
would be really difficult to wash off blood from yourself,
your clothes, the murder weapon, Hi, the murder weapon, all
within that short span of time. Yeah, like thirteen minutes?

(01:10:40):
Is that checked out? Not a while? And then a
three judge panel ruled that Lizzie Borden's inquest testimony, which
was all while she was drugged up, could not be
submitted into evidence by the prosecution. The judges concluded that
Lizzie at the time of the coroner's inquest was, for
all practical purposes, a prisoner charged with two murders, and

(01:11:00):
that her testimony at the inquest, made in the absence
of an attorney, was not voluntary. Okay, yeah, because that
was sketchy. That's weird as fuck to be like, let
us drug you, then we're going to put you in
front of people and ask you a bunch of questions.
You were not allowed to have an attorney here, Okay,
let's go right, But it was determined just kidding, we
can't use that. So I read through an inquest that

(01:11:23):
wasn't used at trial. Love that for you, But now
we know about fleas fucking please. So the defense presented
a handful of witnesses. There were a couple of guys
who reported seeing a strange man near the Boarden House
around eleven o'clock the night before the murders. So remember
how John was like, maybe someone snuck in the night before. Yeah.

(01:11:45):
Doctor Benjamin Handfee testified that he saw a pale faced
young man on the sidewalk near ninety second ninety two
second Street around ten thirty on August fourth, a vampire,
a plumber and gas fitter, testified that in the day
or two befo for the murders, they had been on
the in the Borden's barn loft, which casted doubt on

(01:12:05):
the police's assertion that Lizzie Lizzy zalibi wasn't valid because
there was dust in the loft. They said, But then
these two guys are like, we were just in there
working on something, right. Maybe you just didn't know what
you were doing or looking for, right, Maybe this barn
is dustier than your burn. So Emma Borden also testified.
She said that Lizzie and her father enjoyed a good relationship.

(01:12:27):
She told jurors that the gold ring found on Andrew's
pinky finger was given to him ten or fifteen years
ago by Lizzie and he always wore it. In the
closing speech for the defense, they insisted that the crime
must have been committed by a maniac or a devil,
but not by somebody with a respectable background of like Lizzie.
He said the state failed to meet its burden of
proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the physical

(01:12:49):
that it was physically impossible for Lizzie without help, to
have committed the crime within the timeline suggested by the prosecution.
He also ridiculed the theory that Lizzie might have avoided
getting blood spots on her closed by killing her parents
while being quote unquote stark naked, and argued that the
murders might have been committed by an intruder who came in,
did it, and then left. But I would say, like

(01:13:11):
Abby was murdered hours before, Like we keep forgetting about Abby.
We're only focusing on Andrew. Obviously he's the man. The
prosecution summed up their evidence, and then Justice Dewey gave
the jury their instructions. He told the jurors that they
needed to take into account Lizzy's exceptional Christian character, which
entitled her to every inference in her favor. Okay, well,

(01:13:33):
then she's not guilty. I mean, she's a good Christian lady.
She couldn't have done it right. The jury deliberated for
an hour and a half before returning with its verdict.
Do you know she's found guilty right, not guilty? Oh,
I was mad this whole time for an areason. I
don't know why my head I was thinking that she
was found guilty and not guilty. I because there's even

(01:13:54):
there was just not enough evidence to prove it, no
matter which we look at, because like they left all
of the evidence there to be and then decided to
go back and look for it. So right, yeah, and
they drugged her before asking her questions. Well, her own
family doctor did that. Okay, you can't tell me he's
not in cahoots with the fucking police and the mayor
of whatever town right now. So Lizzie like let out
a yell. She sank into her chair. There's like a

(01:14:17):
sketch of her resting her hands on the courtroom rail
like and putting her face down because she was like
so relieved. Soon Emma, her counsel and courtroom spectators were
rushing to congratulate her. She hid her face in her
sister's arms and said, now take me home. I want
to get to the old place and go there at
once tonight, which I'm like, why are we still trying
to rush back to the fucking house where everyone is murdered?

(01:14:38):
Get me out of there. That makes me feel like
maybe you did do it because you want to dose.
Five weeks after the trial, Lizzie and Emma purchased and
moved into a thirteen room graystone Victorian house at three
h six Front Street, located on the hill, the fashionable
residential area of Fall River. Shortly after that, Lizzie named
the house Maplecroft and had the name carved into the

(01:14:59):
top stone step leading up to the front door. It
was also at this time that Lizzie began to refer
to herself as Lizabeth, which like okay. In eighteen ninety seven,
Lizzie was charged with the theft of two paintings valued
at less than one hundred dollars from the tilden thurber
store in Fall River. Imagine now having all of your
father's money and then just stealing stuff live, yeah, and

(01:15:22):
then you're still out stealing shit right. In nineteen oh four,
Lizzie met a young actress named Nance O'Neil, and for
the next two years, Lizzie and Nance were like inseparable.
At around this time, Emma moved out of Maplecroft. It
said that she didn't like Nance. Okay whatever. Emma stayed
with some family stayed with the family of Reverend Buck

(01:15:44):
and sometime around nineteen fifteen moved to Newmarket, New Hampshire.
She lived quietly and pretty anonymously up there. I think
that they like didn't talk to each other after that.
Lizzie died on June first, nineteen twenty seven, at the
age of sixty seven, after a long illness from complication
following a gall bladder surgery. Emma died nine days later
as a result of a fall down the backsters of

(01:16:06):
her house. They were buried together in the family plot,
along with a sister who died in early childhood, their mother,
their stepmother, and their father's wild I don't know why.
I don't remember that Emma also died, like maybe Lizzie
came back and pushed it on the stairs. Both Lizzie
and Emma left their estates to charitable causes. Lizzie's was
left predominantly to like animal care organizations, and Emma's was

(01:16:31):
left to various humanitarian organizations in Fall River, Okay Okay. So,
although she was acquitted, Lizzie was and still is remaining
the prime suspect in his theories to have committed the murders.
Some people say, like, we just we talked about the
Fuche state and the period thing, which do you remember
a million years ago I covered the murder of Maddie

(01:16:52):
Hackett and it was a pregnant woman that killed her,
and they said that she was like hysterical because of
her hormones in pregnancy. I don't know if I do
remember that. I should have looked into that a little
bit more, but I think that seems unlikely because the
murders were so far apart in time and was well
enough to call for help. Zz Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also,

(01:17:13):
it's just like the weirdness of the periods around the time,
like the period bucket in the basement. Yeah. Another theory
was that Lizzie was being sexually abused by her father
and that drove her to kill him. This belief was
imitated in local newspapers at the time of the murders,
but there's absolutely nothing to back it up. Emma didn't
say in trial that or in any part of the
investigation that anything like that was happening. There was a

(01:17:34):
theory that Lizzie and Bridget were lesbian lovers, and maybe
Abby found out and said you can't do that. I'm
telling your dad whatever. Okay, there's no evidence of that,
but in her later years, Lizzie was rumored to be
a lesbian with that nance, right, Yeah, O'Neil, that was
what I was thinking. Yeah, there was no speculation about

(01:17:54):
that for Bridget Sullivan. She later married a man, which
does not mean she wasn't a right and like had
moved to Butte, Montana. She died in Butte in nineteen
forty eight, and allegedly she gave a deathbed confession to
her sister where she said that she changed somewhere her
testimony on the stand to protect Lizzie. Interesting, So a

(01:18:15):
lot of that timeline comes from Bridget, right, But or
they could have just not been lesbians and killed them
because they're upset. It was like, I'm gonna say whatever
possible so that she doesn't also kill me. Could be
Another suspect was John Morris, the uncle rarely met with
the family after Nope, it's all the same stuff that
I said before, But his alibi for the day was solid, right.

(01:18:39):
There was like, could Lizzie and John have hired someone
to come in and kill so sneak upstairs, kill Abby, leave,
Andrew comes back, sneak back in kill Andrew, and then
Lee would have to be what that timeline looks like,
although Emma had an alibi in fair Haven, which is
about it's only like fifteen miles from Oh, okay, yeah,
that's but not well, I mean back then, back then,

(01:19:02):
I think, right, there was a crime writer named Frank
Spearing who proposed in his nineteen eighty four book called
Lizzie that Emma might have secretly visited the residents to
kill her parents before returning to Fairhaven in time to
get the telegraph informing her of the murders. But like
the people she was staying with said, she was there

(01:19:23):
the whole time. That's a lot of speculation. That's just
like grasping at stras. We don't know what happened. Let's
try to come up with some narrative. Right. There's also
a theory that Andrew had an illegitimate son and he
was trying to extort money from the Burdens, and when
that didn't work, he killed Andrew and Abbey. I think
for that, like he would have had to be in
the house the night before, right, and then like John suggesting,

(01:19:45):
and but why not why stop with them? Why not
kill the sisters? Who are going to inherit at all?
Now that you've done that, right, And then so after
you do the murders, you disappear and don't ask Lizzie
and Emma for any of the money. I just said
that one, okay. So in the picture of him on
the couch, him being Andrew dead on the couch, he
has like a coat or something under his head, like

(01:20:06):
he went to lay down for a nap, and he's
that kind of as a pillow. So what if so
Lizzie kills Abby upstairs way before and Bridget doesn't really
see her for the rest of the day, she can
clean up whatever she What if she had been wearing
that coat, because it was like a wool coat. And
remember it's August and it's hot out, so what are

(01:20:26):
you doing with the wool coat? Wear's the whole coat
like over her dress. You can put like a bonnet
or something on. Right, kills him, puts the coat under
his head, bore, there's the blood, and then you can
wash up quickly with rags, put them in the water,
which makes it bloody water whips, I have fleas, That's
what that is. And that's her cleaning herself up quickly.
She could have even put a murder weapon in there, yeah,

(01:20:46):
in that bucket and would have and then so she
got a little bit of blood on her dress, ripped
it up in the kitchen sink, set it on fire,
and then there's all the evidence, and then she gets
all the money. Right, it's today. But no one in
any of the theories says, I mean, there are some
like weird, none of the prevalent theories like I got
most of this from Famous Trials dot com, very very good,

(01:21:07):
or the crime Library. They none of them say anything
about the period thing or how she could have used
that to her advantage to or the coat or the
coat like yeah, So that's my theory. Honestly, it's the
most plausible I would think. I do think that they
didn't have enough to convict her, so I do agree
with that, But I still think that she didn't. I mean, yes,

(01:21:28):
all signs do lean towards she did do it. I,
like you just said, I do not think that they
had enough to convict her, which then so I am
glad that they didn't, because that's how the part of
law works is that you have to have the burden,
the burden of proof. It was not there also think
about when she was sending Bridget out so many times
right after she could have been disposing of any she
was like, Okay, let me run down stairs. Quick. Yeah quick,

(01:21:50):
I miss I missed this. I got to throw that
in my period bucket. I'm not letting it go. I'm
so fucking like a palled that. The police are like, oh,
a period throws. Don't talk about that. Yeah. So my
sources were Famous Trials dot com, the Crime Library, Morse Society,
Morse Society dot org had a whole thing on John

(01:22:11):
Morse like what his Yeah, what he did that day
or whatever, Smithsonian mag dot com, and a random Google
search for Prussic acid. All right, Well that there were
definitely parts of that I did not remember, even the slightest.
It's still such a wild fucking case and like the
popularity around it. I was on Facebook Marketplace the other
day looking for vintage coffee mugs. Is somebody from like

(01:22:33):
Rhode Island popped up with Lizziebordon coffee mugs like they
were printed on the cup, like they were They just
had like a bulk of them, and I'm like, what
the fuck, Like I clicked on it, like what is
this did it say it's? It was? It said her name,
and then there was a picture of her that I
did say, can I ask you a question? That that
would have been funny. I can't. My phone's up there
so I can't look, But yeah, it was. I almost
send it to you. I almost had you a screenshot

(01:22:54):
of it. That would have been weird. That would have
been weird because you didn't know that I was doing
this right today. But yeah, I'm like, I stopped looking
for coffe mugs after that. I'm like, that's a fucking
weird thing. And then I started processing the whole like
idolizing murderers and things like that, and that was just
very weird to me. So it ruined my search for
fended coffee mugs. Yeah, it's really I thought, like well
known case. And you can like visit the house and

(01:23:17):
sleep in the house. It's said to be like super
duper haunted. My I can do. I do that every day.
I do that. I stay unt I okay, it said
to be really haunted. I it's a no. So it's
like a bed and breakfast or something. Now you can
spend that night. Then it doesn't that's to me. I
don't know. It's it's a weird thing, you know what
I mean, Like when I covered the what the Veliska

(01:23:41):
acts murderers, Like that's also a place you can go
and like tour and whatnot, and it's just weird to me.
I don't know. Yeah, would I go walk by the house? Yes,
I mean see and I don't know, Like if I
were in the area and I don't know, I'm very
torn it like I could go both ways, Like it
is fascinating. I would love to know more, Like in

(01:24:01):
the aspect of can I get more information from this,
then yeah, I'd be like, Okay, that's cool, let's do it. Yeah,
it's like a museum. They've all it's just a like
you can eat breakfast at the table. The autopsies were done,
and I think, no, thank you, Sarah's out. I'm back to.
I'm back to. It's fucking weird. We're not doing it,
so we already did all of our all of our things.

(01:24:22):
I guess that's all we have for this week. Thanks
for listening. Hey bye Kybye'm twenty minutes

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