October 25, 2024 • 32 mins
Segment 1 with Tobias Sturesson starts at 0:00.
Having grown up in a religious cult and later confronted its toxic culture, Tobias Sturesson evolved into a prominent advocate for the vital importance of cultural health for organizational success and human flourishing. He is the author of "You Can Culture: Transformative Leadership Habits for a Thriving Workplace, Positive Impact and Lasting Success". Tobias has identified the four most crucial and timeless culture-building leadership habits.
Segment 2 with Adrian Kelly starts at 13:17.
Since no one is coming to save them, how do you help people get the most out of themselves and life. Adrian Kelly is the author of "The Success Complex: Ancient Wisdom, The Building Blocks of Life,and Your Path to Sustained Success". He is a recognized sports and performance coach, author, award winning lawyer, and a sought-after guest speaker.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-small-business-radio-show--3306444/support.
Having grown up in a religious cult and later confronted its toxic culture, Tobias Sturesson evolved into a prominent advocate for the vital importance of cultural health for organizational success and human flourishing. He is the author of "You Can Culture: Transformative Leadership Habits for a Thriving Workplace, Positive Impact and Lasting Success". Tobias has identified the four most crucial and timeless culture-building leadership habits.
Segment 2 with Adrian Kelly starts at 13:17.
Since no one is coming to save them, how do you help people get the most out of themselves and life. Adrian Kelly is the author of "The Success Complex: Ancient Wisdom, The Building Blocks of Life,and Your Path to Sustained Success". He is a recognized sports and performance coach, author, award winning lawyer, and a sought-after guest speaker.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-small-business-radio-show--3306444/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's
exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable.
Small Business Radio is now on the air with your host,
Barry Moultz.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, thanks for joining this week's radio show. Remember this
is the final word in small business. For those keeping track,
This is now shown number eight hundred and eleven. My
next guest talks about having grown up in a religious
cult and later confronting toxic culture. Tobias Sturson evolved into
(00:38):
a prominent advocate for the vital importance of cultural health,
organizational success, and human flourishing. He's the author of a
book called You Can Culture Transformative leadership Habits for a
thriving workplace, positive impact and lasting success. Tobias identified the
foremost crucial and timeless culture building leadership habits to buy
(00:59):
a Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I'm so glad to be with you, Berry, Thank you
for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So Tobias, first of all tell us about growing up
in a religious cult. What was that all about? Give
us some context.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, so I grew up in a Christian community that
over time really turned into religious cult where we the
environment became more and more isolated from the outside world.
My mom was a leader in that environment, and the
founder of this organization started to kind of point people
(01:39):
out that they started to isolate and demonize and get
kind of all of us to get behind that. And
ultimately my mom was one of the people pointed I
out and becoming isolated, demonized, and it led her to
several times tried to end their own lives to gates
(02:00):
from the terror and the trauma. She ended up in
a psychiatric word for one and a half year. And
I grew up in that community. I became an adult
in that community and became a part of that behavior.
And I've had to wrestle so much with the questions
about an organization that had seen driven by noble mission
(02:23):
could turn into something so toxic, and how I, who
saw myself as an ethical and balis to a leader,
could become complicit in psychological views so tobias.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
How does an organization like that turn, as you say,
into something that's really toxic. What happens? What's the pivot point?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I think that's a really really great question, and I
guess that there's a lot of different points that shaped
something into that but I think for or for our listeners,
and where I think most environments are not entirely I mean,
they don't turn out that extreme, but we might still
(03:08):
face different issues that are already critical. And I think
one thing we often do is that we don't take
the signals seriously. We kind of keep up this picture
of ourselves, of our organization, of our leadership. Of course,
I'm a great leader, of course, and the value stream
a leader. Of course, this would not happen here. Of course,
(03:28):
we're a great company. Of course, we have great values,
and we don't see the science. We don't want to
listen to them. And instead of inviting the feed that
that could help us see where there are issues, where
there are concerns, perhaps with our culture, we tend to
kind of create a more and more silent culture. And
(03:51):
I really think that cultural health deteriorates in that silence.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So tobias. You know, a lot of people who have
never been in a cult say, well, if you don't
don't like it, why don't you just leave? And that's
not very easy, is it.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You know, it's it's not vari east at all. And
and I think that's the same, is true. I think
of a of a toxic workplace or something else that's
that's making that decision to leave if if it's really hard,
because we belong to a group, we belong to a community.
Sometimes that means a certain amount of safety in a
(04:29):
way that this is what I know, uh and and
I don't know how I would succeed outside of it.
Sometimes you created kind of the the idea within that
environment that this is the place to be, this is
where uh yeah, the right things are happening. If you're
if you're outside of this, you're missing out on something important.
(04:50):
And that might also drive people to stay within an
environment that is really unhealthy, whether it's a it's a
co company or or a religious community.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So how do you you then became you transition to
an advocate for cultural health? First of all, how do
you define to buyas what cultural health is?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So great great question? And to me, cultural health is
when our culture in an organization, when it enables us
to deliver on our mission, our strategy, our objectives, but
it also enables us to create a thriving workplace or
workplace where where people can thrive, do their best work,
(05:35):
do that in a safe in a psychologically safe environment,
and Thirdly, where the impact of our organization is positive
to the to the biggest extent possible. So it's really
about mission success, it's about a thriving workplace, and it
(05:57):
is about having a responsible impact where we live by
the values that we say that we want to adhere to.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So in the book, you talk about there are four
habits that really matter if you're going to have successful,
healthy culture. Wyn't you just describe them briefly then we
can talk about each of them to.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Buias absolutely, So the first habit is to get humble
and just say that. The idea really builds on that.
So many talents. When when companies think about culture and
we think about changing culture, we easily think about it
as a project. Let's do this workshop, let's invite a
speaker to come in and talk about this. But the
(06:34):
thing is that, just like with our physical health, our
cultural health is not shaped by this, you know, just
short term initiative, but it's shaped by the signals that
we send repeatedly at leaders, and those come through our
habits what we repeatedly do. So if we want to
change our culture, we need to change something about our habits.
(06:54):
And then the four habits that we've identified are to
get humble, which really means to embrace vulnerability, to take
ownership for our responsibility for our culture, and to be
willing to repair broken trust when we've acted that online
with our values. And number two is to get clear,
which means to make our values matter. To get clear
(07:15):
and what is the behavior that will really drive us
to succeed in our mission and what are the principles
that we don't want to compromise, And then we encourage
the right behavior very intentionally, and we make sure to
actually deal with unhelpful or destructive behavior. And the third
habit is to get listening, which means that we don't
(07:38):
just assume that information is going to come on our
table or just because we say that our door is open,
but we instead we solicit feedback, We create conditions for
brave conversations, and we help our theme members to experciite
voicing values. And then the fourth habits is to get integrity,
(07:58):
and it's really about creating rituals and processes within our
organization that support of acting and living and bu building
our business in line with our values.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So, Tobias, let's talk about a few of those you
talk about The first one is getting humble. Give us
a definition of what you mean by humble, because some
people think that if they're humble, they're weak, they're always apologizing.
But I don't believe that's the case. What is your
definition of humble?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So my definition, and I think when I talk about
it in the book, I really talk about it not
just the idea of it as a character trait, but
the idea of it as a practice. So it's something
we choose to do, and we need to choose to
repeatedly do it. I think that you can be confidently humble,
you can be courageously humble. And I think that really
(08:51):
it's about understanding that you don't have all the answers,
understanding that you are vulnerable, that you can just assume
as I said that, Oh but I'm a great leader,
Oh our culture is great. But instead we assume that
there might actually be issues that we need to deal with,
(09:14):
and we want to understand and invite them. And we're
also willing to stow up in our team and ask
examples of for example, sharing, Oh I failed in this,
or I'm struggling with this. And I think the issue
is that in so many companies we have problems that
are taking so much energy that really come down to
(09:37):
the place that people are not daring to talk about
the failures they made, the questions they have. They're not
daring to ask for help. And if we could just
do those things, then we would be able to move
forward in a much more effective way.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The worth habit you talk about is integrity or having
me having rituals. And I think rituals that support any
culture is really important because I think in the end
people most people do like rituals. What kind of rituals
are you suggesting, Tobias, Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Think rituals are really critical. And it comes back to
this point of okay, so we don't just do this
one off things, but we continually have these conversations and
one ritual that I suggest teased to do and I
think it's great to do. Open a small business, for example,
if the regularly, let's say bi weekly, have conversations where
you act yourself as the team. Where have we over
(10:41):
this last week weeks accident in line with our values,
and where have we acted in conflict with our values?
Where have they been concerned or what are decisions that
we're saving where we really need to reflect our values.
It's a great way to really integrate conversations about values,
dilemma concerns, and learning into our rituals.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, Tobias, I appreciate you me on the show. The
title of the book is called you Can Culture Transformative
Leadership Habits for thriving workplace, positive impact and lasting success.
Where can people catch up with you?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
So a great place to go is to you can
culture dot com where you find more information about the
book and information to download. Please also connect with me
on LinkedIn and would be so happy to connect with
you Tobias.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Thanks so much this small business radio show. We'll be
right back.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
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Small Business Radio with Barry Moles.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Well, as I've always said to a lot of small
business owners and people I've worked with that no one
is really coming to save you. No one's going to
be coming in in a white horse, going to give
you the magical solution. So as a leader, how do
you help people get the most out of themselves and
their lives if no one is coming to save them.
(13:16):
My guest is Adriane Kelly, who's the author of an
upcoming book called The Success Complex Ancient Wisdom, the building
Blocks of life and your Plan to sustain Success. He's
a recognized sports and performance coach, author, award winning lawyer,
and sought after speaker. Adriane Welcome to the show. HK
you here, I got to put you on mute. Well,
(13:37):
typically people aren't a sports and performance coach and a lawyer.
How'd that happen?
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Yeah, Well, I suppose, like a lot of people in life,
you know, you don't start out with a solid plan
to end up in a particular place. You take opportunities
as they arise. And I think the book is actually
contains a lot about that, in terms of being prepared
for opportunity to take different avenues in life.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
But for me, I was a criminals.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Sister for six years or lawyer you'd say, in the States,
and then I had an opportunity to move into business.
So I co found the Renowble Energy business, which was
modestorately successful at about thirty staff, and we raised a
bit of money and we'd sown products around Europe and
in the US actually as it happens, and then I
moved on. I was a business consultant and there's kind
(14:24):
of a natural move from business consultancy, which was all
about improvement and efficiency into the sports world. I'm currently
I'm currently doing a master's degree in performance psychology, but
I've been I've been doing this for a long time
and it's it's fire rewarden and it's great to see
people progress and get what they want that life.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So, you know, being a performance coach, you know you
kind of see people that really when the times are stressful,
they really really brings up the best in them. We
see this a lot, obviously in sports. You know, the
the Michael Jordan's or the you know, the Brett Fars
who can really perform at their highest level when they're
under the most stress. What have you found that makes
(15:04):
those people able to do that? Where sometimes when we're
understressed and we need the best performance, a lot of
a shrink.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Well, of course, some people are predisposed to deal with
stress a bit better than otters, and certainly in Beharval psychology,
where there's you know, there's people that have you know,
high tendency towards stress naturally and then and they are
more easy to manipulate into a high stress state. But
regardless of which we can all do I suppose, to
(15:35):
perform better under stress. And those athletes do this, they
have conditioned responses. So we can train and prepare for
a prescriptive response to stress, and once we recognize we're
in a stress state, we can start to deflect to
our training and it helps. I suppose we can't always
be prepared, because stressful situations arise, but certainly in sports
(15:59):
and business, a lot of the pressure that we're going
to be under is something we can usually somewhat prepare for.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So how do we best prepare for that?
Speaker 6 (16:10):
Okay, great question.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
So there are lots of ways, depending on what the
challenge is, of course, but the primary way is, I suppose,
is to induce stress or manipulate stress in a training environment.
And this has used a lot in behavioral science studies
and performance psychology, where you know, they've all sorts of
studies with novice golfers and the basketball players and baseball
(16:34):
players where they perform and they practice, and then they
might introduce a competitivelopment to it. They're competing against each other,
there's a leaderboard, there's money at stake, or perhaps there'll
be an interview afterwards for the worst worst performer and
have to explain why they perform so badly, So there's.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
The wall of shame instead of the wall of fame.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
Right exactly, Yeah, exactly, and funny enough, contertitively the people
that sometimes choke under under stress. It comes down to
the way we learn things, which is which is a
separate subject altogether. But we can deflect sometimes and fall
apart if we've learned things very prescriptively by Rote. The
best way to learn in order to cup under pressure
(17:13):
is usually by implicit learning, which means that we're given
a goal and we kind of figure out the mechanics
as we go and learn it that way, where we
try and introduce conscious mechanics, as in we draw our
attention towards the mechanics that we're using in a particular task.
It's been very very well shown in research and true
studies that the more we we direct our mind to
(17:34):
what we're physically doing in the moment, the less well
we perform. So we're for eliteately to mention Michael Jordan,
those guys operate from a place of automaticity.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
They're in what what was that?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
What was that word automaticity?
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Auto automaticity, which means that it's automatic, it's subconscious. They're
in a state of flow. This is this is what
they've trained for. This is what they do to know
how to respond their body and their mind as a
prescriptive spons and to that high impiens.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So they're not thinking, they're just performing exactly exactly.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
They're in the zone.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
There takes time, of course, to get to that state
where you have the prescriptive skills that are automatic, which
you deflect to under high pressure. But we can all
do that to one a rudder, depending on the type
of pressure we expect to be under.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
So what we're really saying is that, you know, in
small business, stress is going to come, so we might
as well prepare for it, right, We might as well
try to be productive through it. And are you saying
that this takes practice? And how would you create that
that you needed an artificial stressful situation of business to
train people?
Speaker 6 (18:40):
Right?
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Well, I'm going to give you a crazy example. So
I don't know if you ever seen the movie Mutiny
on the Bounty a long time ago, years ago, So
I listened to podcasts recently were talked about the personality
of Captain Blie. You know, it was the captain on
that ship who flogged all the sailors and ultimately it
resulted in a mutineer. Certainly, that's the way that the
the Fela betrays it. But as it turns out, the
(19:02):
actual real life historical figure, Captain Bli, was quite a
reasonable guy. But he found himself in an extremely stressful
situation on the return trip where they were going to
Tahiti on this boat, you know, four hundred years ago,
and and he reacted very badly to that stressful environment.
And there was a there was a talk that I
listened to this podcast about the behavioral science aspect to it,
(19:25):
and it was indeed about this preparing for stressful situations
and deciding on a prescriptive response. Now, how can you
relate that to business? Of course, there's going to be
pinch points, there's going to be stress involved, there's going
to be people that don't We.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Can't flog our staff, right, that's against the law.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
We can't flog our staff, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
But but what we can do is snap and we
can shout and do all the things we shouldn't be
doing if we weren't in that stressful state. And I
think one of the things we can certainly plan for
in business is to learn prescriptive responses in advance, recognizing
the fact that we will be under pressure, and use
those prescriptive responses which are preconditioned or balanced in advance
(20:09):
of the actual circumstances. Arising that you can't prepare for
all circumstances. What we can do is equip ourselves and
to ourselves for difficult times and difficult conversations when we're
going to have everything from a redundancy situation to a
dismissal too I don't know it, you know, to an
argument in the office between other other staff, and we
can we can start to develop language and prescriptive responses
(20:31):
in terms of how we deal with these with these things.
And that's that helps a lot in terms of our
overall attitude and kind of and how we deal with
situations under high pressure.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
So I've talked to many leadership coaches. You know, you
talk about motivating others. Do you think that you know
you can motivate yourself, but do you think that you
can motivate others or you have to find people that
are self motivated?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Well, you know, the interview process is very important and
I find that certainly in my experience with working with
companies hiring staff that their values are very aligned with
what you want to do with your business is very
very helpful. And you know people talk about KPIs, you know,
key performance indicators, and from time to time we should
probably check in and our key value indicators are our
(21:16):
staff in stell aligned from value perspective at what our
business is trying to do. But not every business, if
it's a shop or whatever else, is capable of doing
that to a high degree. But there are certainly, certainly
for high optan performance businesses and the doble energy industry
or otherwise of the financial industry. You know, you've got
that kind of mutual alignment with the with the group
of staff and why you're there in the first place.
(21:39):
And I think that's quite important, I suppose when you
mentioned getting the right people. But in terms of motivating people,
there's quite an interesting study done many years ago a
guy called Harry Harlowe then in the late nineteen forties
with monkeys, and and what they did was they're one
of the control group of monkeys where they try and
solve these puzzle, these puzzles. You know, there were all
sorts of screws andids and stuff, and had to put
(22:01):
them together or take them apart. And then another group
which got rewards and swanted so forward. And what they
found that the group of monkeys that actually got no
rewards whatsoever, no incentives I've performed, all the other monkeys
that got these extrinsic rewards as in peanuts or whatever
else at the end of the day, And what was
the conclusion for them? That the conclusion was there's an
adherent motivation in all of us, particularly when it comes
(22:23):
to embracing challenge, the satisfaction of achieving some sort of result.
And that's called intrinsic motivation. So it's deep down within us.
And in the book that that I've written, i'd described
that as atomic motivation. If we can tap into atomic
motivation and motivation that's going to be there and is
there for a deep rooted reason, that can be a
very very powerful motivator in the long term. And I
(22:44):
used the example of a guy called Marty Fish, who
was US number one tennis player.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
Done if you remember back, there.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Was actually a little biopic about him, I think on
thirty Netflix.
Speaker 6 (22:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
And so that's a great documentary, and it really illustrates
one one thing in particular, and that's his motivation where
he got it from. He talks in detail about it,
like this guy worked, worked the socks off, trained all
the hours that God said, late in his career, he
went from one hundred and twenty three in the world
to number seven in an eighteen month period.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
How do you do that? Well?
Speaker 5 (23:17):
He talks about He doesn't talk about the prize money,
he doesn't talk about the trophies, he doesn't talk about
the fame or what he talks about is being able
to sleep at night, to being content that he'd given
everything he could give so it wouldn't haunt him later
in life. And that's that's really intrinsic motivation, where it's
something deep and meaningful to us.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
And quite often you talk about motivating others.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Quite often it's about getting the right people in the
right situation and giving them the latitude to perform. There's
a there's a great book called called Drive, which talks
about the treatise Daniel pink that.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
On the show.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
And it's it's it's a time, you know, given the
time that the need and the task as in given
the latitude of over the task in terms of how
to perform at some latitude and team they need the
resources to perform what they do. So quite often as mentors,
parents and employers, what we need to think about is
not extinguishing at the flame of motivation rather than having
(24:17):
to try and create motivation in the office, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
One of the things Adrian people try to do to
find the right fit, the motivated people for their company
is they have them take these IQ and EQ tests.
Do those work.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Well?
Speaker 5 (24:32):
You know, I talk in detail about the IQ tests
and how they were developed and who develops them in
what circumstances, and you know, from quite a lot of
research I've read, IQ test show us what people are
very good at.
Speaker 6 (24:46):
IQ tests.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Similarly with EQ tests, they do tests for important things,
important skills which you know people will be useful to people.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
But I also talk in the book about.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Skills that aren't measurable, like creativity, perseverance and uh and
you know, and the ability to hustle. So if we
you know a great book, of course, I'm sure you
know outliers Malcolm Gladwell where Michael Bladwin analogic and you
know an analogizes as the word i Q to heighten basketball.
(25:17):
So if we're a very high IQ, there is an
oftimal point of IQ, for example. And if you know,
sometimes people that register very high i Q are missing
important other skills, like in basketball that can be very tall,
they might be very coordinated, they might be very fit.
Whereas you know, Michael Jordan six foot six is probably
the best basketballer of all times. And you know he
had he had great, great ball handing skills, great standard,
(25:40):
great speed, all these other skills together. Now, if you
take i Q in that context and you look at
smaller basketball players, like there was one basketball player I think.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
It was five ft six, Muggsy Balls. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
I think it was five four Anthony Webbed as well,
Anthony spud web I think the nickname. But he five
foot six, played eight one hundred and fourteen games in
the NBA. Why because he had he had the point
yard position that he played at. And you'll know more
of basketball than I do. It's kind of like a
coach on the court position. So it's that's a position
on the court. We get to use your mind.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's quarterback.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
You get to yeah, exactly, you get picture that the
ball goes to the right person.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
You know that they're usually very coordinated, very fast.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
Thinking, and and I Q in that context in terms
of measuring it in business, for example, I talk about
Sylvester Stallone's story. You know, it's a well known story,
but what people probably don't know as well, and you'll
see it from his from his documentary, is that, you know,
people wouldn't write him at the scripts because he was
seen as this tough guy, this tough Italian American guy,
and he got these kind of you know, gang or
(26:45):
kind of let's sake, like a role as a heavy
in a movie. And ultimately he had to learn to
write his own scripts, to write himself into those scripts,
and that's how he began his career in leading roles.
And that sort of has that's sort of hustle, that
ability to take opportunity, that ability, you know, to take
rejection and get over it and stick with it, stick
to itnous.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
That's something that's very very difficult to measure in people.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
That's that's only when you get to know people, and
with that comes to personality skills to deliver on those
those opportunities. You know, so all of those things are
outside the sphere of IQ tests and EQ tests, Adrian.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Last question I wanted to ask you is as a leader,
how do you help people get the most out of
themselves in their lives?
Speaker 5 (27:28):
Yeah, well, out of their lives is probably a deeper question,
you know. In the book I divided into three sections.
It's like a parami structure. I have seven chapters on
skills that might require to overcome challenge, and they're there.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
Things that we talked about, including motivation.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
And the second part of the book is five chapters
on finding balance in life, dealing with stress and you know,
not burning out, and also working with a value systems
and we'll make the wrong decisions. But the last part
of the book is probably one of the most interesting parts,
which is things to in for in life, things that
you would like maybe to have more of in your life.
And the three things that I chose in the end
were controlled, have more control of our lives, as the
(28:04):
ability to say no to things, you know, to operate
more on our own a calendar than somebody else's, which
any of us can do I think to an extent.
And the second thing I chose was purpose and how
to re evaluate purpose and how to start doing how
to align purpose and meaning? People go, I can do
a thousand things today, whatever, but we have to decide
(28:26):
what's the most meaningful to us out of those spectrum
of activities we.
Speaker 6 (28:31):
Could you take part in.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
And in the book again, I interview a guy called
Marcus McGee, who's an Irish guy's a musician. He had
stayed four cancers. Thankfully he's an omission. He's stable now,
but that cancer diagnosis really was a catalyst for his
priorities in life. He's since gone on, he's released an album,
he's done all these things that he thinks he never
(28:53):
would have done only for that cancer diagnosis. And there
aren't too many stories like that. But we shouldn't all
get a cancer diagnosed us to assess meaning and importance
of things in our lives. When they sit down with
a pen and paper and you know, and really think
about what's important to us, and that cuts through.
Speaker 6 (29:09):
The clutter very quickly.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
The final part of the book, and you asked the
question how to bring out the best people's lives is
a chapter on transcendence, not in the religious sense, but
rather transcendence in the Abraham Maslow sense. So Abraham maslow
hierarchy of needs top of the pyramid. Anybody who's studied
any business course or any business course, well know Maslow's
hierarchy of needs. And at the top of that hierarchy
(29:33):
of needs starts off with basic you know, food and hygiene.
Moving up the pyramid, self actualization was the pinnacle as
he saw it. This was back in the nineteen forties,
but just before he died in the late nineteen sixties,
he revised that perramid in his personal papers and said, Joe,
I might have got it wrong. I think the top
of that pyramid was transcendence. The most fulfilling thing we
(29:54):
can do is what we do for others. It's what
we do together. And I just thought that was very interesting.
I wrote a chat drown that at the end of
the book because it's a lot of people, you know,
famous people, for example, Robert McNamara, who was JFK's secretary,
the Defense secretary, he was president of the World Bank,
he was president of Foremother Company, who reflected on his
life in that documentary The Fog of War and talks about,
(30:18):
you know, things he missed in life, you know, like
he missed they missed, he missed the perspective on the
Vietnam War. They misunderstood what the Vietnamese we're trying to
we're trying to do, or talk to the Americans we're
trying to do. And it's and that's an extreme example, perhaps,
but transent transcendence is about winning together. It's a small planet.
It's it's about you know. I end the book on
(30:41):
this note, which is a bit of a spoiler, but
I think it's important in this conversation that while we
can't define success, it's a very personal thing, we can
probably define what success is not. And for me, success
is not winning alone. It's not a zero some game.
And there's another great movie talk about We've talked abou
a lot of movies here into the wild, you know,
(31:02):
if you've sure yeah, yeah, And you know on Chrispy Channelists,
you know, is very last entry in his journal was
happiness is not real and less shared. And I said,
just in the same way, success is not real unless shared.
And you know, the more we can win together on
this small planet, the more that is true success.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
In my opinion, Well, time we get the best.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I appreciate me on the show where can people catch
up with you?
Speaker 6 (31:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (31:31):
So the book is available now. It's it's on Amazon
and all good book outlets. That's the success complex is
the book, Adrian Kelly.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Adrian, thanks so much, and I want to thank everyone
for joining this week's radio show. I got to think
our incredible staff, our booking producer Sarah Schaeffern, our video
and sound editor Ethan Moltz. If you're serious about being
more successful in twenty twenty four, give me a call
off seat of a private line seven seven three eight
three seven eight two five zero, or email me at
Barry at Molts dot com. Me love everyone, trust a few,
(32:02):
and pal your own canoe. Have a profitable and passionate week.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
You can find Barrymoltz on the web at Barimolts dot
com or more episodes of Small Business Radio at small
Business radioshow dot com
Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's
exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable.
Small Business Radio is now on the air with your host,
Barry Moultz.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, thanks for joining this week's radio show. Remember this
is the final word in small business. For those keeping track,
This is now shown number eight hundred and eleven. My
next guest talks about having grown up in a religious
cult and later confronting toxic culture. Tobias Sturson evolved into
(00:38):
a prominent advocate for the vital importance of cultural health,
organizational success, and human flourishing. He's the author of a
book called You Can Culture Transformative leadership Habits for a
thriving workplace, positive impact and lasting success. Tobias identified the
foremost crucial and timeless culture building leadership habits to buy
(00:59):
a Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I'm so glad to be with you, Berry, Thank you
for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So Tobias, first of all tell us about growing up
in a religious cult. What was that all about? Give
us some context.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, so I grew up in a Christian community that
over time really turned into religious cult where we the
environment became more and more isolated from the outside world.
My mom was a leader in that environment, and the
founder of this organization started to kind of point people
(01:39):
out that they started to isolate and demonize and get
kind of all of us to get behind that. And
ultimately my mom was one of the people pointed I
out and becoming isolated, demonized, and it led her to
several times tried to end their own lives to gates
(02:00):
from the terror and the trauma. She ended up in
a psychiatric word for one and a half year. And
I grew up in that community. I became an adult
in that community and became a part of that behavior.
And I've had to wrestle so much with the questions
about an organization that had seen driven by noble mission
(02:23):
could turn into something so toxic, and how I, who
saw myself as an ethical and balis to a leader,
could become complicit in psychological views so tobias.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
How does an organization like that turn, as you say,
into something that's really toxic. What happens? What's the pivot point?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I think that's a really really great question, and I
guess that there's a lot of different points that shaped
something into that but I think for or for our listeners,
and where I think most environments are not entirely I mean,
they don't turn out that extreme, but we might still
(03:08):
face different issues that are already critical. And I think
one thing we often do is that we don't take
the signals seriously. We kind of keep up this picture
of ourselves, of our organization, of our leadership. Of course,
I'm a great leader, of course, and the value stream
a leader. Of course, this would not happen here. Of course,
(03:28):
we're a great company. Of course, we have great values,
and we don't see the science. We don't want to
listen to them. And instead of inviting the feed that
that could help us see where there are issues, where
there are concerns, perhaps with our culture, we tend to
kind of create a more and more silent culture. And
(03:51):
I really think that cultural health deteriorates in that silence.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So tobias. You know, a lot of people who have
never been in a cult say, well, if you don't
don't like it, why don't you just leave? And that's
not very easy, is it.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You know, it's it's not vari east at all. And
and I think that's the same, is true. I think
of a of a toxic workplace or something else that's
that's making that decision to leave if if it's really hard,
because we belong to a group, we belong to a community.
Sometimes that means a certain amount of safety in a
(04:29):
way that this is what I know, uh and and
I don't know how I would succeed outside of it.
Sometimes you created kind of the the idea within that
environment that this is the place to be, this is
where uh yeah, the right things are happening. If you're
if you're outside of this, you're missing out on something important.
(04:50):
And that might also drive people to stay within an
environment that is really unhealthy, whether it's a it's a
co company or or a religious community.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So how do you you then became you transition to
an advocate for cultural health? First of all, how do
you define to buyas what cultural health is?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So great great question? And to me, cultural health is
when our culture in an organization, when it enables us
to deliver on our mission, our strategy, our objectives, but
it also enables us to create a thriving workplace or
workplace where where people can thrive, do their best work,
(05:35):
do that in a safe in a psychologically safe environment,
and Thirdly, where the impact of our organization is positive
to the to the biggest extent possible. So it's really
about mission success, it's about a thriving workplace, and it
(05:57):
is about having a responsible impact where we live by
the values that we say that we want to adhere to.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So in the book, you talk about there are four
habits that really matter if you're going to have successful,
healthy culture. Wyn't you just describe them briefly then we
can talk about each of them to.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Buias absolutely, So the first habit is to get humble
and just say that. The idea really builds on that.
So many talents. When when companies think about culture and
we think about changing culture, we easily think about it
as a project. Let's do this workshop, let's invite a
speaker to come in and talk about this. But the
(06:34):
thing is that, just like with our physical health, our
cultural health is not shaped by this, you know, just
short term initiative, but it's shaped by the signals that
we send repeatedly at leaders, and those come through our
habits what we repeatedly do. So if we want to
change our culture, we need to change something about our habits.
(06:54):
And then the four habits that we've identified are to
get humble, which really means to embrace vulnerability, to take
ownership for our responsibility for our culture, and to be
willing to repair broken trust when we've acted that online
with our values. And number two is to get clear,
which means to make our values matter. To get clear
(07:15):
and what is the behavior that will really drive us
to succeed in our mission and what are the principles
that we don't want to compromise, And then we encourage
the right behavior very intentionally, and we make sure to
actually deal with unhelpful or destructive behavior. And the third
habit is to get listening, which means that we don't
(07:38):
just assume that information is going to come on our
table or just because we say that our door is open,
but we instead we solicit feedback, We create conditions for
brave conversations, and we help our theme members to experciite
voicing values. And then the fourth habits is to get integrity,
(07:58):
and it's really about creating rituals and processes within our
organization that support of acting and living and bu building
our business in line with our values.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So, Tobias, let's talk about a few of those you
talk about The first one is getting humble. Give us
a definition of what you mean by humble, because some
people think that if they're humble, they're weak, they're always apologizing.
But I don't believe that's the case. What is your
definition of humble?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So my definition, and I think when I talk about
it in the book, I really talk about it not
just the idea of it as a character trait, but
the idea of it as a practice. So it's something
we choose to do, and we need to choose to
repeatedly do it. I think that you can be confidently humble,
you can be courageously humble. And I think that really
(08:51):
it's about understanding that you don't have all the answers,
understanding that you are vulnerable, that you can just assume
as I said that, Oh but I'm a great leader,
Oh our culture is great. But instead we assume that
there might actually be issues that we need to deal with,
(09:14):
and we want to understand and invite them. And we're
also willing to stow up in our team and ask
examples of for example, sharing, Oh I failed in this,
or I'm struggling with this. And I think the issue
is that in so many companies we have problems that
are taking so much energy that really come down to
(09:37):
the place that people are not daring to talk about
the failures they made, the questions they have. They're not
daring to ask for help. And if we could just
do those things, then we would be able to move
forward in a much more effective way.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The worth habit you talk about is integrity or having
me having rituals. And I think rituals that support any
culture is really important because I think in the end
people most people do like rituals. What kind of rituals
are you suggesting, Tobias, Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Think rituals are really critical. And it comes back to
this point of okay, so we don't just do this
one off things, but we continually have these conversations and
one ritual that I suggest teased to do and I
think it's great to do. Open a small business, for example,
if the regularly, let's say bi weekly, have conversations where
you act yourself as the team. Where have we over
(10:41):
this last week weeks accident in line with our values,
and where have we acted in conflict with our values?
Where have they been concerned or what are decisions that
we're saving where we really need to reflect our values.
It's a great way to really integrate conversations about values,
dilemma concerns, and learning into our rituals.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, Tobias, I appreciate you me on the show. The
title of the book is called you Can Culture Transformative
Leadership Habits for thriving workplace, positive impact and lasting success.
Where can people catch up with you?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
So a great place to go is to you can
culture dot com where you find more information about the
book and information to download. Please also connect with me
on LinkedIn and would be so happy to connect with
you Tobias.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Thanks so much this small business radio show. We'll be
right back.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Running a small business is hard and confusing. Most entrepreneurs
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Speaker 1 (12:47):
Stick around to get your small business unstuck. More of
Small Business Radio with Barry Moles.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Well, as I've always said to a lot of small
business owners and people I've worked with that no one
is really coming to save you. No one's going to
be coming in in a white horse, going to give
you the magical solution. So as a leader, how do
you help people get the most out of themselves and
their lives if no one is coming to save them.
(13:16):
My guest is Adriane Kelly, who's the author of an
upcoming book called The Success Complex Ancient Wisdom, the building
Blocks of life and your Plan to sustain Success. He's
a recognized sports and performance coach, author, award winning lawyer,
and sought after speaker. Adriane Welcome to the show. HK
you here, I got to put you on mute. Well,
(13:37):
typically people aren't a sports and performance coach and a lawyer.
How'd that happen?
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Yeah, Well, I suppose, like a lot of people in life,
you know, you don't start out with a solid plan
to end up in a particular place. You take opportunities
as they arise. And I think the book is actually
contains a lot about that, in terms of being prepared
for opportunity to take different avenues in life.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
But for me, I was a criminals.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Sister for six years or lawyer you'd say, in the States,
and then I had an opportunity to move into business.
So I co found the Renowble Energy business, which was
modestorately successful at about thirty staff, and we raised a
bit of money and we'd sown products around Europe and
in the US actually as it happens, and then I
moved on. I was a business consultant and there's kind
(14:24):
of a natural move from business consultancy, which was all
about improvement and efficiency into the sports world. I'm currently
I'm currently doing a master's degree in performance psychology, but
I've been I've been doing this for a long time
and it's it's fire rewarden and it's great to see
people progress and get what they want that life.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So, you know, being a performance coach, you know you
kind of see people that really when the times are stressful,
they really really brings up the best in them. We
see this a lot, obviously in sports. You know, the
the Michael Jordan's or the you know, the Brett Fars
who can really perform at their highest level when they're
under the most stress. What have you found that makes
(15:04):
those people able to do that? Where sometimes when we're
understressed and we need the best performance, a lot of
a shrink.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Well, of course, some people are predisposed to deal with
stress a bit better than otters, and certainly in Beharval psychology,
where there's you know, there's people that have you know,
high tendency towards stress naturally and then and they are
more easy to manipulate into a high stress state. But
regardless of which we can all do I suppose, to
(15:35):
perform better under stress. And those athletes do this, they
have conditioned responses. So we can train and prepare for
a prescriptive response to stress, and once we recognize we're
in a stress state, we can start to deflect to
our training and it helps. I suppose we can't always
be prepared, because stressful situations arise, but certainly in sports
(15:59):
and business, a lot of the pressure that we're going
to be under is something we can usually somewhat prepare for.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So how do we best prepare for that?
Speaker 6 (16:10):
Okay, great question.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
So there are lots of ways, depending on what the
challenge is, of course, but the primary way is, I suppose,
is to induce stress or manipulate stress in a training environment.
And this has used a lot in behavioral science studies
and performance psychology, where you know, they've all sorts of
studies with novice golfers and the basketball players and baseball
(16:34):
players where they perform and they practice, and then they
might introduce a competitivelopment to it. They're competing against each other,
there's a leaderboard, there's money at stake, or perhaps there'll
be an interview afterwards for the worst worst performer and
have to explain why they perform so badly, So there's.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
The wall of shame instead of the wall of fame.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
Right exactly, Yeah, exactly, and funny enough, contertitively the people
that sometimes choke under under stress. It comes down to
the way we learn things, which is which is a
separate subject altogether. But we can deflect sometimes and fall
apart if we've learned things very prescriptively by Rote. The
best way to learn in order to cup under pressure
(17:13):
is usually by implicit learning, which means that we're given
a goal and we kind of figure out the mechanics
as we go and learn it that way, where we
try and introduce conscious mechanics, as in we draw our
attention towards the mechanics that we're using in a particular task.
It's been very very well shown in research and true
studies that the more we we direct our mind to
(17:34):
what we're physically doing in the moment, the less well
we perform. So we're for eliteately to mention Michael Jordan,
those guys operate from a place of automaticity.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
They're in what what was that?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
What was that word automaticity?
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Auto automaticity, which means that it's automatic, it's subconscious. They're
in a state of flow. This is this is what
they've trained for. This is what they do to know
how to respond their body and their mind as a
prescriptive spons and to that high impiens.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So they're not thinking, they're just performing exactly exactly.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
They're in the zone.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
There takes time, of course, to get to that state
where you have the prescriptive skills that are automatic, which
you deflect to under high pressure. But we can all
do that to one a rudder, depending on the type
of pressure we expect to be under.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
So what we're really saying is that, you know, in
small business, stress is going to come, so we might
as well prepare for it, right, We might as well
try to be productive through it. And are you saying
that this takes practice? And how would you create that
that you needed an artificial stressful situation of business to
train people?
Speaker 6 (18:40):
Right?
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Well, I'm going to give you a crazy example. So
I don't know if you ever seen the movie Mutiny
on the Bounty a long time ago, years ago, So
I listened to podcasts recently were talked about the personality
of Captain Blie. You know, it was the captain on
that ship who flogged all the sailors and ultimately it
resulted in a mutineer. Certainly, that's the way that the
the Fela betrays it. But as it turns out, the
(19:02):
actual real life historical figure, Captain Bli, was quite a
reasonable guy. But he found himself in an extremely stressful
situation on the return trip where they were going to
Tahiti on this boat, you know, four hundred years ago,
and and he reacted very badly to that stressful environment.
And there was a there was a talk that I
listened to this podcast about the behavioral science aspect to it,
(19:25):
and it was indeed about this preparing for stressful situations
and deciding on a prescriptive response. Now, how can you
relate that to business? Of course, there's going to be
pinch points, there's going to be stress involved, there's going
to be people that don't We.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Can't flog our staff, right, that's against the law.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
We can't flog our staff, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
But but what we can do is snap and we
can shout and do all the things we shouldn't be
doing if we weren't in that stressful state. And I
think one of the things we can certainly plan for
in business is to learn prescriptive responses in advance, recognizing
the fact that we will be under pressure, and use
those prescriptive responses which are preconditioned or balanced in advance
(20:09):
of the actual circumstances. Arising that you can't prepare for
all circumstances. What we can do is equip ourselves and
to ourselves for difficult times and difficult conversations when we're
going to have everything from a redundancy situation to a
dismissal too I don't know it, you know, to an
argument in the office between other other staff, and we
can we can start to develop language and prescriptive responses
(20:31):
in terms of how we deal with these with these things.
And that's that helps a lot in terms of our
overall attitude and kind of and how we deal with
situations under high pressure.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
So I've talked to many leadership coaches. You know, you
talk about motivating others. Do you think that you know
you can motivate yourself, but do you think that you
can motivate others or you have to find people that
are self motivated?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Well, you know, the interview process is very important and
I find that certainly in my experience with working with
companies hiring staff that their values are very aligned with
what you want to do with your business is very
very helpful. And you know people talk about KPIs, you know,
key performance indicators, and from time to time we should
probably check in and our key value indicators are our
(21:16):
staff in stell aligned from value perspective at what our
business is trying to do. But not every business, if
it's a shop or whatever else, is capable of doing
that to a high degree. But there are certainly, certainly
for high optan performance businesses and the doble energy industry
or otherwise of the financial industry. You know, you've got
that kind of mutual alignment with the with the group
of staff and why you're there in the first place.
(21:39):
And I think that's quite important, I suppose when you
mentioned getting the right people. But in terms of motivating people,
there's quite an interesting study done many years ago a
guy called Harry Harlowe then in the late nineteen forties
with monkeys, and and what they did was they're one
of the control group of monkeys where they try and
solve these puzzle, these puzzles. You know, there were all
sorts of screws andids and stuff, and had to put
(22:01):
them together or take them apart. And then another group
which got rewards and swanted so forward. And what they
found that the group of monkeys that actually got no
rewards whatsoever, no incentives I've performed, all the other monkeys
that got these extrinsic rewards as in peanuts or whatever
else at the end of the day, And what was
the conclusion for them? That the conclusion was there's an
adherent motivation in all of us, particularly when it comes
(22:23):
to embracing challenge, the satisfaction of achieving some sort of result.
And that's called intrinsic motivation. So it's deep down within us.
And in the book that that I've written, i'd described
that as atomic motivation. If we can tap into atomic
motivation and motivation that's going to be there and is
there for a deep rooted reason, that can be a
very very powerful motivator in the long term. And I
(22:44):
used the example of a guy called Marty Fish, who
was US number one tennis player.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
Done if you remember back, there.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Was actually a little biopic about him, I think on
thirty Netflix.
Speaker 6 (22:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
And so that's a great documentary, and it really illustrates
one one thing in particular, and that's his motivation where
he got it from. He talks in detail about it,
like this guy worked, worked the socks off, trained all
the hours that God said, late in his career, he
went from one hundred and twenty three in the world
to number seven in an eighteen month period.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
How do you do that? Well?
Speaker 5 (23:17):
He talks about He doesn't talk about the prize money,
he doesn't talk about the trophies, he doesn't talk about
the fame or what he talks about is being able
to sleep at night, to being content that he'd given
everything he could give so it wouldn't haunt him later
in life. And that's that's really intrinsic motivation, where it's
something deep and meaningful to us.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
And quite often you talk about motivating others.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Quite often it's about getting the right people in the
right situation and giving them the latitude to perform. There's
a there's a great book called called Drive, which talks
about the treatise Daniel pink that.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
On the show.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
And it's it's it's a time, you know, given the
time that the need and the task as in given
the latitude of over the task in terms of how
to perform at some latitude and team they need the
resources to perform what they do. So quite often as mentors,
parents and employers, what we need to think about is
not extinguishing at the flame of motivation rather than having
(24:17):
to try and create motivation in the office, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
One of the things Adrian people try to do to
find the right fit, the motivated people for their company
is they have them take these IQ and EQ tests.
Do those work.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Well?
Speaker 5 (24:32):
You know, I talk in detail about the IQ tests
and how they were developed and who develops them in
what circumstances, and you know, from quite a lot of
research I've read, IQ test show us what people are
very good at.
Speaker 6 (24:46):
IQ tests.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Similarly with EQ tests, they do tests for important things,
important skills which you know people will be useful to people.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
But I also talk in the book about.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Skills that aren't measurable, like creativity, perseverance and uh and
you know, and the ability to hustle. So if we
you know a great book, of course, I'm sure you
know outliers Malcolm Gladwell where Michael Bladwin analogic and you
know an analogizes as the word i Q to heighten basketball.
(25:17):
So if we're a very high IQ, there is an
oftimal point of IQ, for example. And if you know,
sometimes people that register very high i Q are missing
important other skills, like in basketball that can be very tall,
they might be very coordinated, they might be very fit.
Whereas you know, Michael Jordan six foot six is probably
the best basketballer of all times. And you know he
had he had great, great ball handing skills, great standard,
(25:40):
great speed, all these other skills together. Now, if you
take i Q in that context and you look at
smaller basketball players, like there was one basketball player I think.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
It was five ft six, Muggsy Balls. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
I think it was five four Anthony Webbed as well,
Anthony spud web I think the nickname. But he five
foot six, played eight one hundred and fourteen games in
the NBA. Why because he had he had the point
yard position that he played at. And you'll know more
of basketball than I do. It's kind of like a
coach on the court position. So it's that's a position
on the court. We get to use your mind.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's quarterback.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
You get to yeah, exactly, you get picture that the
ball goes to the right person.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
You know that they're usually very coordinated, very fast.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
Thinking, and and I Q in that context in terms
of measuring it in business, for example, I talk about
Sylvester Stallone's story. You know, it's a well known story,
but what people probably don't know as well, and you'll
see it from his from his documentary, is that, you know,
people wouldn't write him at the scripts because he was
seen as this tough guy, this tough Italian American guy,
and he got these kind of you know, gang or
(26:45):
kind of let's sake, like a role as a heavy
in a movie. And ultimately he had to learn to
write his own scripts, to write himself into those scripts,
and that's how he began his career in leading roles.
And that sort of has that's sort of hustle, that
ability to take opportunity, that ability, you know, to take
rejection and get over it and stick with it, stick
to itnous.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
That's something that's very very difficult to measure in people.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
That's that's only when you get to know people, and
with that comes to personality skills to deliver on those
those opportunities. You know, so all of those things are
outside the sphere of IQ tests and EQ tests, Adrian.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Last question I wanted to ask you is as a leader,
how do you help people get the most out of
themselves in their lives?
Speaker 5 (27:28):
Yeah, well, out of their lives is probably a deeper question,
you know. In the book I divided into three sections.
It's like a parami structure. I have seven chapters on
skills that might require to overcome challenge, and they're there.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
Things that we talked about, including motivation.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
And the second part of the book is five chapters
on finding balance in life, dealing with stress and you know,
not burning out, and also working with a value systems
and we'll make the wrong decisions. But the last part
of the book is probably one of the most interesting parts,
which is things to in for in life, things that
you would like maybe to have more of in your life.
And the three things that I chose in the end
were controlled, have more control of our lives, as the
(28:04):
ability to say no to things, you know, to operate
more on our own a calendar than somebody else's, which
any of us can do I think to an extent.
And the second thing I chose was purpose and how
to re evaluate purpose and how to start doing how
to align purpose and meaning? People go, I can do
a thousand things today, whatever, but we have to decide
(28:26):
what's the most meaningful to us out of those spectrum
of activities we.
Speaker 6 (28:31):
Could you take part in.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
And in the book again, I interview a guy called
Marcus McGee, who's an Irish guy's a musician. He had
stayed four cancers. Thankfully he's an omission. He's stable now,
but that cancer diagnosis really was a catalyst for his
priorities in life. He's since gone on, he's released an album,
he's done all these things that he thinks he never
(28:53):
would have done only for that cancer diagnosis. And there
aren't too many stories like that. But we shouldn't all
get a cancer diagnosed us to assess meaning and importance
of things in our lives. When they sit down with
a pen and paper and you know, and really think
about what's important to us, and that cuts through.
Speaker 6 (29:09):
The clutter very quickly.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
The final part of the book, and you asked the
question how to bring out the best people's lives is
a chapter on transcendence, not in the religious sense, but
rather transcendence in the Abraham Maslow sense. So Abraham maslow
hierarchy of needs top of the pyramid. Anybody who's studied
any business course or any business course, well know Maslow's
hierarchy of needs. And at the top of that hierarchy
(29:33):
of needs starts off with basic you know, food and hygiene.
Moving up the pyramid, self actualization was the pinnacle as
he saw it. This was back in the nineteen forties,
but just before he died in the late nineteen sixties,
he revised that perramid in his personal papers and said, Joe,
I might have got it wrong. I think the top
of that pyramid was transcendence. The most fulfilling thing we
(29:54):
can do is what we do for others. It's what
we do together. And I just thought that was very interesting.
I wrote a chat drown that at the end of
the book because it's a lot of people, you know,
famous people, for example, Robert McNamara, who was JFK's secretary,
the Defense secretary, he was president of the World Bank,
he was president of Foremother Company, who reflected on his
life in that documentary The Fog of War and talks about,
(30:18):
you know, things he missed in life, you know, like
he missed they missed, he missed the perspective on the
Vietnam War. They misunderstood what the Vietnamese we're trying to
we're trying to do, or talk to the Americans we're
trying to do. And it's and that's an extreme example, perhaps,
but transent transcendence is about winning together. It's a small planet.
It's it's about you know. I end the book on
(30:41):
this note, which is a bit of a spoiler, but
I think it's important in this conversation that while we
can't define success, it's a very personal thing, we can
probably define what success is not. And for me, success
is not winning alone. It's not a zero some game.
And there's another great movie talk about We've talked abou
a lot of movies here into the wild, you know,
(31:02):
if you've sure yeah, yeah, And you know on Chrispy Channelists,
you know, is very last entry in his journal was
happiness is not real and less shared. And I said,
just in the same way, success is not real unless shared.
And you know, the more we can win together on
this small planet, the more that is true success.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
In my opinion, Well, time we get the best.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I appreciate me on the show where can people catch
up with you?
Speaker 6 (31:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (31:31):
So the book is available now. It's it's on Amazon
and all good book outlets. That's the success complex is
the book, Adrian Kelly.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Adrian, thanks so much, and I want to thank everyone
for joining this week's radio show. I got to think
our incredible staff, our booking producer Sarah Schaeffern, our video
and sound editor Ethan Moltz. If you're serious about being
more successful in twenty twenty four, give me a call
off seat of a private line seven seven three eight
three seven eight two five zero, or email me at
Barry at Molts dot com. Me love everyone, trust a few,
(32:02):
and pal your own canoe. Have a profitable and passionate week.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
You can find Barrymoltz on the web at Barimolts dot
com or more episodes of Small Business Radio at small
Business radioshow dot com
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