March 1, 2025 • 35 mins
Segment 1 with Mike Colias starts at 0:00.
We are moving to electric vehicles no matter what the current president thinks.
My first guest is Mike Colias who is a Wall Street Journal reporter and veteran of the US automotive beat. He is based in Detroit, where he has covered General Motors for fourteen years and, five years ago, added Ford to his duties. With access to all the key players in the automotive industry, he has tracked the transition to electric vehicles from its earliest days.
Segment 2 with Devin DeCiantis at 21:25.
We all know that family businesses are the most common form of a business in the world. But how do they thrive during turbulent times either caused by the economy or by something going on in the family?
Devin DeCiantis is the Managing Partner at Lansberg Gersick Advisors (LGA), a trusted advisory and educational partner to the world’s leading family enterprises. He is the author of " The Enduring Enterprise: How Family Businesses Thrive in Turbulent Conditions" with LGA co-founder Ivan Lansberg. His writing has also been featured in the Harvard Business Review, The Atlantic, and The Walrus.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-small-business-radio-show--3306444/support.
We are moving to electric vehicles no matter what the current president thinks.
My first guest is Mike Colias who is a Wall Street Journal reporter and veteran of the US automotive beat. He is based in Detroit, where he has covered General Motors for fourteen years and, five years ago, added Ford to his duties. With access to all the key players in the automotive industry, he has tracked the transition to electric vehicles from its earliest days.
Segment 2 with Devin DeCiantis at 21:25.
We all know that family businesses are the most common form of a business in the world. But how do they thrive during turbulent times either caused by the economy or by something going on in the family?
Devin DeCiantis is the Managing Partner at Lansberg Gersick Advisors (LGA), a trusted advisory and educational partner to the world’s leading family enterprises. He is the author of " The Enduring Enterprise: How Family Businesses Thrive in Turbulent Conditions" with LGA co-founder Ivan Lansberg. His writing has also been featured in the Harvard Business Review, The Atlantic, and The Walrus.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-small-business-radio-show--3306444/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's
exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable.
Small Business Radio is now on the air with your
host Barry Moultz.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, thanks for joining this week's radio show. Remember this
is the final word in small business. For those keeping track,
This is now shown number eight hundred and twenty two. Well,
no matter what the current president thinks, we are moving
to electric vehicles in the future. And I think that
the new bromance that the president has with Elon Musk
(00:40):
almost ensures that. My next guest is Mike Cullias, who
is the Wall Street Journal reporter and veteran of the
US automotive beat. He's based in Michigan, where he's covered
general motors for fourteen years and five years ago added
forward to his duties.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
With access to all the key.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Players in the automotive industry, he has tracked the transition
to electric electric vehicles from its earliest days.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Mike, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Hey, thanks for having me on, Verry.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I just want to go on twenty twelve. Nissan Leaf
I was one of the first ones out there. It
was like a electric golf cart. It went about seventy
five miles.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
That was before it was cool.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And you know something, and if you rolled down the windows,
you got two or three extra mile less miles.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yeah, the aerodynamics right exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
So by the way, I love the car, and it
really was revolutionary at the time and it was very
cool just to plug in when you came home. But
cars have really expanded past that. So how do you
think this second Trump administration is going to affect EV
electronic vehicle development in the US.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
You know, it's not going to help, right, It's it's
I think it's going to slow things down a bit,
but it's not going to derail it. And some of
the narrative is, you know, this is this is this
is curtains for for evs under Trump, and that's that's
not really the case. I mean, there's there's certain things
he'll probably do, like roll back the EPA regulations for
(02:08):
you know, the dictate tail pipe emissions and stuff, and
that'll basically allow the car companies to sell more gas
and diese lunching cars than they would have under the
current Biden rules.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
But those rules are are super strict.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
I think the industry, you know, felt like they needed
to be roll back any it would it would have
required basically half of all new cars to be electrics by.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
The end of this decade. No one really thinks, you know,
at one point people thought that might be possible.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Infrastructure is not there yet, right, correct.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah, So, but there's there's other things.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
You know, the seventy five hundred dollars tax credit that
a lot of people qualify for to buy an EV.
Uh that has to go through Congress. Now I could see,
you know, obviously Republican control both houses.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
I could see uh, you know.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Some GOP long makers wanting to dunk on evs and
and and there's a possibility that goes away.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
But there's other things.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
There's there's tens of more than one hundred billion dollars
in funding for companies that make EV batteries, which is
a huge piece of this for the for the industry
and the automakers. They really are counting on that money.
I don't think, you know, there's there's these battery factories
that are going up all over like Georgia and Tennessee
and Kentucky, all red states. I don't think Converse is
(03:16):
going to take that funding away. So there's there's still
going to be support, and I think it's still a
transition that's going to progress because the companies know that
they need to compete with places like China and elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
So I'm really trying to understand.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I haven't really followed this because I try not to
follow everything that comes out of the President's mouth. What
is really his knock on evs, because certainly all the
traditional car companies have invested heavily in this.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
Well, I mean they this has just become a political
issue over the last couple of years. And you know,
but why but why Well, I think you know, a
lot of it is just people really didn't like a
lot of things that President Biden were doing, you know,
people on the right, and and you know.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
One of the now it's just the oppible.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I think I think it's large I think that's largely it.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
And so you know, you hear President Trump and others
talk about the ev mandate, and there was there was
never a mandate on consumers to buy evs.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Right.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
If anything, it's sort of becoming a golden age for
people who are walking in a showroom for car buyers,
because you've got a ton of different choices now than
you didn't have before, plug in hybrids and way more hybrids,
and now EV's a lot more evs in the market.
So I just think, you know, President start Trump's trying
to dismantle much of what Biden put in place, and
(04:35):
a lot of that's you know, climate policy, and ev
fall into that. And it's as simple as that. On
the Eli Musk part of things, you know, it's interesting.
He's the CEO of the biggest EV maker in the world,
the world, and he's on record is saying he doesn't
think the government should be supporting evs. You know, Tesla
has been the beneficiary of a lot of federal support
(04:56):
over the year.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
So it's a bit like slamming the.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Door behind you, you know, it would it would hurt
Tesla if some of these some of his funding goes away,
like the seventy five hundred bucks. I think he knows that,
but I also think he, you know, he's making a
bet that it would hurt his rivals even more, and
he's probably right because they're not making money yet on evs.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So, Mike, let me ask you a question about Tesla
and evs. Certainly, you know, he was revolutionary as far
as getting the Teslas out there and having to be
two hundred and fifteen miles, how are they doing considering
competitors have a similar you know light, a cinema of distance,
and there's a lot less range anxiety.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Yeah, for sure, there's way more competition for Tesla today
than there was even two or three years ago. There's
a lot of you know, the industry for a long
time never really try that hard on evs, Like you
talked about your niece on leaf, like that's not putting
your best foot forward trying you know, it was sort
of like they were just making stuff to check a
regulatory box. Now they're making actually really cool you know
(05:54):
evs that have long ranges and they're stylish, and so
you know that Tesla is now i think slightly below
fifty percent of US sales, and for the longest time
it was like it was like two thirds or you know,
it was basically all there was. And so there's there
is a lot more competition, there's a lot more to
choose from. You know, Tesla's expanded globally now, so you
(06:17):
know it's strong in China and in Europe, but ses
as sales have hit some headwinds in the last year
and a half too, As you know, we've seen this
kind of broader sort of plateauing and interest in you know,
a lot of analysts I talk to think that we're
going to see this for the next year or two
as people wait for the charging infrastructure to build out,
(06:37):
for prices to come down a little bit, and then
it'll probably reaccelerate later in the decade. That's kind of
the going thought right now.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You know, in my.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Opinion, there was a lot of liberal, progressive people that
really bought the Tesla early on, you know, to help
the climate whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
And now with Elon.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Smith must shift to the right, is he losing some
of those clients, I mean customers? I know that, you know,
one of my friends is returning his Tesla off alease
and he's inscribed to scratch fascists on the side of
the car. He doesn't care what it costs him. So
is that affecting Tesla sales or that's just kind of
(07:15):
a myth.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
I think it's I think it's an impact at least
on the margins, you know. I mean, surveys have shown
that that this has been a turn off to some
Tesla loyalists. You know, just all of the controversy that
swirls around Musk and I I saw something out of
Europe recently where you know, Tesla sales in Germany are
(07:38):
way down, and you know, he's had some controversial remarks,
you know as it relates to Germany, and you know,
it's like he's he's just yeah. I think that people
are starting to question, like, you know, do I want
to do I want to buy a car that's like
this closely identified with everything that you're getting when you
(07:59):
when you talk about Elon Musk.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
So I think it has an impact.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But he's making money so many other ways. He probably
you know, doesn't care. What about where is the EV
car industry now? Right because it seems like there were
new players that came in for some more successful like Teslas,
some were and the major car companies kind of struggled
to catch up. Are the major car companies the traditional
car companies? Are they making it now or is it
(08:24):
still the startup territory?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
They are the big guys are in the game.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
They're growing market share, but it's at volume sales volumes
that are lower than anyone expected. So they put in
all this investment three and four years ago, and there
was a bunch of buzz back then, right there were
big waiting lists. People were you know, super paying about
sicker price. People are super excited about all these new models.
And now, you know, I think for a combination of
(08:53):
people worried about price charging it. You know, you're getting
into a level of buyer.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
It's no longer the early adopters, environmentalist, tech forward people.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
It's it's more of a discerning customer who you know,
isn't sure if it's going to fit in their lifestyle
and are interested in the technology, but g I have
to pay a little bit more. It's just a tough
it can be a tough sell for people. So yes,
the traditional GM for hanaiki has been really strong. You know,
they all have evs in the market, most of buy
(09:21):
and large the companies are losing a lot of money
on their eb products and they're they're they're profitable on
the other stuff and so but the you know, so
they're faced with having to lean into something that right
now they're losing money on because they know eventually they're
going to have to compete. And you know, with companies
like Chinese automakers, maybe not on us soil anytime soon.
(09:44):
But you know, we didn't think the Japanese were going
to take over the take over the market in the
seventies and eighties, and that's what happens.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So let's talk about the Chinese because a lot of
people say their stuff is better, right, and so I
assume we don't see the Chinese. I've looked into this,
but I assume we don't see Chinese cars in America
because of the tariffs or they just can't be sold
in America.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
Yes, so a lot of people if they you know,
if you say the term Chinese electric car, you might
think of like a you know, glorified golf card or
something just something that's you know, not very refined.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
And some of these cars there's a lot of cheap
stuff that's coming out over there, but some of these
cars that they're now exporting into Europe are super stylist, right.
I mean they've hired you know, there's a company called Neo.
They hired BMW's lead designer more than a decade ago,
and now you know, all there's like it's it's really
good looking stuff. It's very the tech is oftentimes better
(10:41):
than what you'd get even in cars in the US
because they've just really put a premium on you know,
the Chinese consumer just expects a certain level of like
ease of technology in the car and so you know,
you're driving up to your home and like it instantly
turns the lights on for you, and you know, the
level the level of integration with the rest of your
like tech life. In China, they've figured that out in
(11:04):
a big way, and evs have have helped in that process. So,
like China's doing, they're putting out a lot of good stuff,
and it's affordable because they've got huge advantages in cost
for a number of different reasons. And so you know,
the European automakers now are a bit freaked out because
some of the stuff is arriving on their shores and
(11:25):
they're worried about being able to compete.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, why don't we see it here is because they're
not allowed to be sold here and the tarifs are
too high. It just makes them unreasonable.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
Tariffs went into effect on Chinese EV's last year, like
one hundred percent tariffs, So that is going to keep
that they're going to keep them out.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
They weren't.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
You know, the Chinese brands didn't launch here before that anyway.
It's just it's a tough market. A lot of times
they've got to, you know, cost them a lot to
sort of meet our safety standards and environmental standards and
things like that. You know, the Chinese automakers have for
fifteen years been looking hard at making inroads into the
(12:03):
US and have just never really pulled the trigger.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
You know, it's interesting you talk about the slow down in.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
The two automobiles in the last four years, and of
course I was an early adopter for EV's Back in
twenty twelve, I didn't buy an EV for either of
my new vehicles, mostly because the cost was still higher.
Is that the stiff new factor? Or is it range anxiety?
Is it they don't think the infrastructure is built out.
(12:30):
I'm not going to be able to charge it. What's
really again holding it back?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Those are the two factors. It's price.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Maybe it's like ten to fifteen percent more expensive to
buy an EV than a comparable gas power car. And
then it's just I just lump all the second part
of what you said into just charging headaches.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Right where am I going to charge?
Speaker 8 (12:52):
You know?
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Is am I going to be able to find a charger.
How long is it going to take when I'm on
a road trip to charge? Like, all those things are
kind of a hang up for people.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
So and back to China.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
You know, almost fifty percent of sales are vs are
plug in hybrids now in China, and it's because they've
they've largely solved those two problems. They're putting out affordable
EV's and they've lit up the country with charging infrastructure
with you know the kind of scale that kind of
only only China's government can bring to bear. But you know,
you can you can see the result if you solve
those two problems, people people want to buy electrics.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, I guess the hybrid thing is really the best
of both worlds. I remember, I believe that when the
BMW came out with their first EV you can have
an optional part where there was like a little charge
or whatever they around gasoline.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Am I right about that?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah? Yeah, so yes, I think that was the I.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Three I think, yeah, yeah, so this is this has
been interesting. Yes, in general, I agree that the hybrids
are going to be a bigger part of this transition
than people expected even just a few years ago. All
the companies are now you know, turn to scramble to
get more hybrids out, including plug and hybrids, and that's
what you're referring to. So this is a car and
(14:06):
there's still small part of the market, but more and
more people are looking for this. It's a car that
goes let's say, thirty to forty or so miles on
purely electric range. So you can get around town not
using a drop of gas, come home, charge it in,
you know, plug it in at night, and do it
again the next day. I mean, you can go weeks
and months without it, probably.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Your daily commute, right or go at the grocery store
or whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Exactly, but then you got the backup guess engine if
you've got to go out of town or whatever. And
so that's that's a really nice option for people. It
gives people peace of mind. I think we're going to
I think we're going to see more of that. Those
are a little more expensive too, right, but I think
it's for people who don't want to take the leap
on a fully electric car.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
It's a nice option.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I think I saw in the paper this past week
how Trump is rolling back the rebates for chargers. Is
that a thing, and is that going to affect the
infrastructure on the network.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Yeah, so there was an infrastructure bill passed early in
the Biden administration. Seven billion dollars is made available to
help with this charging network, and most of that money
was to go to chargers on highways because that's that's
the biggest road trips are kind of the biggest problem.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
So the states, that money gets funneled through the states.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
And then companies apply to the states to get the
money and then they install chargers. A lot of that
money has gone out the door, but it's in process.
It's either it's already gone to the state or the
state is in the process of you know, providing it
to the companies who are putting in the chargers. The
administration is trying to put a freeze on all of that,
and it's unclear if legally they can do that.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So it's it's it's a big it's a big.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Question mark now as to what happens with that money
because most of it hadn't been you know, only I
think it's less than a billion of that seven billion
dollars had actually been put into the ground, and so
it's in some some you know state of getting to
where it needs to go, and we're going to have
to just see how this plays out.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
It'll probably end up in the courts, like not not
helpful in the long run.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
On the short run, it is delayed.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
What is the state of fast chargers, right? That was
always the dream where you had these fast chargers that
could charge the car in twenty minutes long highways. Is
that what's being put in or were still at this
you know two twenty charging speed?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
No, the fast chargers, yes, that is that is the trick,
and those are really expensive.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Those can be like over one hundred thousand dollars, and
that that is what most of that federal money was for.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
You know, there are private companies putting in fast chargers.
The Tesla's supercharger network is by far the best in
the industry. There was a bunch of deals in the
last eighteen months with all the tradition, almost all of
the traditional car makers cut a deal with Tesla to
allow their customers into certain probably most of those stations.
(16:53):
That's going to make a big difference, I think. So
you know, if you drive a whatever, a Chevy Blazer,
Ev'd be able to stop at a Tesla supercharger, and
that's that's going to open up the network a bit.
But there's there's a lot of money going into highway
charging because that you know, that is the that is
the trick and and and they're also you know, the
(17:15):
cars now are able to take a fast charge more
so than in the past. So you know, a lot
of it depends on the power of the strength of
the charger, but also the car itself. And we're seeing
more that can can accept that higher charge. So you
do you are getting cars that can get one hundred,
one hundred and fifty miles and a half hour.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
And you know that's that can be doable.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So let me ask you one more question. Look into
your crystal ball. It's twenty five years from now. What
percentage of US car owners on an EV.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Yeah, that's always the big question, right, I mean twenty
five years. So let's just I'll give you this some increments.
I mean, I think by the end of this decade,
you know, just kind of like look at the experts, say,
if we're at ten percent now.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
You're one of the experts, though, so what do you.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Use, right, maybe fifteen to twenty percent by the end
of this decade, middle of next you know, twenty thirty
five around a third, and then to your twenty five years.
I mean, I think you're always going to have gas
in diesel for a long long time. Same with hybrid,
which is, you know, an internal combustion engine. But I'd
be surprised if it wasn't well over half the market
(18:24):
twenty five years from now being an electricer.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Listen, we know in mad Max they go back to gas, right,
So yeah, that's the thing. So, Mike, I appreciate be
on the show. Where can people catch up with you?
And writing for the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 9 (18:38):
You know my stuff.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I tend to stick to LinkedIn, not as active on
Twitter as I was anymore, but.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah, email's great too. Just look me up on the
Wall Street Chail website. You can find me.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Mike, thanks for joining the show. This is the Small
Business Radio Show. We'll be right back. My work with
thousands of small business owners over the last twenty years
inspired me to write my next book on how to
make changes.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well that's not exactly true.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
More accurately, my frustration and the resulting challenges working with
small business owners forced me to write this new book.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Let me explain.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I'm often asked by companies and small business owners that
I don't know to help them. Typically, they're feeling stuck
by a problem and their companies can't move forward. After
analyze the situation, we mutually decide on a go forward strategy.
I help them assemble a detailed plan to make any
changes and the critical sess factors and actions that need
to be completed. They agree that taking these actions will
(19:39):
help them solve their issue for their company and make
them more money, and then almost nothing happens. Unfortunately, most
small business owners implement a few easy steps but never
take the critical or difficult ones that could make a difference.
This has long frustrated me. Since we worked really hard,
(20:00):
I'm putting together this plan and at the beginning we're
both excited about the result. I wrote my new book,
Change Masters, How to Actually make the changes you already
know you need to make to figure out why small
business owners do not make the changes or take the
actions that they know will help.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Them reach their goals.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Where is the gap between sincere intent to make these
changes and the actions to actually do it? What holds
most people back and keeps them stuck on the same
path over and over again. Why are they still so
comfortable and not making these changes and staying on a
path that clearly doesn't work for them. One thing is
(20:39):
it's not adding to their happiness and it's not adding to.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Their feelings success.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
What steps do they need to take to slowly break
free and start to make those changes today.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
That will help them in the long run.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
In my new book, I reveal much of the psychological
research around why change is just so hard for so
many people in real life strategies that every small business
owner can employ right now to make the changes they
need to make in their companies to grow. So get
my new book, Change Masters. Remember I'm not trying to
convince you to make a change, but rather help you
(21:13):
make the changes you already know you need to take.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Stick around to get your small business unstuck. More of
Small Business Radio with Barry moles.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Well. We all know that family businesses are the most
common form of business in the entire world, But how
do they thrive during turbulent times, either caused by the economy,
external factors, or by something going on inside the family.
Devin Desanta's is the managing partner at Landsberg Gersik Advisors,
(21:51):
a trusted advisor, an educational partner to the world's leading
family enterprises is there author a book called The Enduring Enterprise,
How family business says thrive in Turbulent conditions. His writings
have been featuring in The Harvest Business Review, The Atlantic,
and The Walrus.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Devin, welcome to the show.
Speaker 9 (22:11):
Thanks much, Berry, It's great to be here.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
What we most want to know is what's the Walrus?
I thought that was like a Beatles song.
Speaker 9 (22:18):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 8 (22:19):
Inspired by Lewis Carroll, paulm actually many many years ago
our short story.
Speaker 9 (22:25):
But it's a Canadian magazine of ideas.
Speaker 8 (22:28):
Sort of the Canada's equivalent to The Atlantic or Harper's Magazine.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
So one of the questions about family businesses I have,
because I have a lot of experience, you know, working
with family businesses, mediating family businesses, it seems like for
most of them there's always a turbulent time.
Speaker 8 (22:45):
Why is that, Well, it's an interesting question. Turbulences. In
our opinion, and based on our research, product of context,
and so where we wanted to focus our efforts in fact,
was those places times where the external context was so
turbulent that it introduced a layer of organizational challenge that
(23:09):
required a different form of leadership, a different form of
organizational structure, different form of.
Speaker 9 (23:13):
Governance, and so forth.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
You might argue, as we do in the book, that
advanced economies have really enjoyed a golden age of stability
over the last half century or longer, at the privileged
peak of the developmental ladder, and that has enabled commercial
life to flourish. But really you could argue that even
within advanced economies there's a you know, it's not monolithic.
(23:38):
That the largest and most successful of the companies that
operate in these environments in the US, the UK, Canada, and
parts of Western Europe are able to leverage abundance, whereas
you know, maybe further down the size ladder for small
and medium sized business is scarcity is endemic.
Speaker 9 (23:58):
And so we act.
Speaker 8 (24:00):
We find a lot of echoes between the experience of
small businesses in the United States with all businesses operating
and emerging in frontier economies, you know, places like Venezuela
and Yemen and Nigeria and other locations around the world
that we feature throughout the book.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
So, Devin, give us an example about are you talking
about a business, a family business that shifts its emphasis
over time?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I mean a lot of us are familiar with the
Laman trilogy.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's a Broadway show, and you see how the Lehman brothers,
you know, shifted from I don't know, I mean I
forget you know, they had like a general store to
doing financial markets. Is that what we're talking about or
something else?
Speaker 8 (24:39):
It is, yes, that and a variety of different pathologies
of entrepreneurial success. Over time, Some companies will start with
a strategy of what we call differentiation, which is to
focus on a niche and to try to become a
big fish in a small pond. And there are many
examples of this, from ancient to Italian glass blowers and
(25:00):
French wineries and Japanese hotels to.
Speaker 9 (25:05):
Many of the.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
Largest companies that are still surviving today. But just because
you began in one niche doesn't mean you need to
remain there.
Speaker 9 (25:12):
And so as we.
Speaker 8 (25:13):
Track the evolution of these enduring enterprises over time, you
often find that diversification will become or diversity will become
a big part of their strategy, recognizing that exposure to
only one industry over time can lead you vulnerable to
catastrophic collapse, and so if you build out adjacent markets
or adjacent products or something completely associated from the original
(25:38):
entrepreneurial legacy that in fact, you can build up your
resilience over time as well as achieve higher levels of growth.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So do you find that shifting from the entrepreneur legacy
business is more difficult for family businesses or it's simpler
because you basically have just one head and they're going
to call the shots, almost like it's a person in
their kingdom, or a lot of times there isn't one leader,
so decision making is fractured.
Speaker 8 (26:07):
It's a really interesting observation Barry. On the one hand,
for younger family businesses, those that are still led by
a controlling owner or maybe a group of siblings in
a partnership, consolidation of control and authority does make decision
making faster if you will, and you don't have to
run it up and down the flagpole and various committees
(26:27):
and layers of bureaucracy. On the other hand, families often
have a deep emotional connection to their entrepreneurial legacy and
to the assets that the founder had created in the
success that they had achieved, and so it it can
lead decision making in the face of those kinds of
pivot or persevere moments, a little more complicated, less rational,
(26:48):
less quantitative, and more qualitative and more about this sort
of the feel of what it means to have somebody
else operating a business that our grandparents founded and that
still carries their family's name.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
We know a lot of family business and you asked,
you know, Ford as they Lauder, you know these kinds
of things. But really, in Asia, there really are some
really old family businesses that you talk about in the book.
I mean, I think we're all familiar with you know, Kikoman,
if we like Soy sauce, or Ikia, if we like
furniture or Samsung. Of course, does a lot of different things.
(27:20):
Tell us about what you learned about those companies, those
family owned businesses.
Speaker 9 (27:25):
Yeah, terrific question. We in fact went and in twenty
nineteen and met with five.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
Families there some of the oldest and most ancient clients,
and combined their total age was over twenty five hundred years. Wow.
You can imagine the kinds of the kinds of experiences
that go through having you know, in the case of
one of the families, forty generations of continuous entrepreneurship passed
down from.
Speaker 9 (27:50):
Often fathers to sometimes to you know, adopted sons and.
Speaker 8 (27:55):
Daughters in the absence of a natural air, but still
remaining true to the original operating businesses.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Evan, I just want to I want to pouge it
for a second. I want to punsu because because forty generations,
I mean statistically, you know, statistically, every every generation you
go through, in my experience, you've got about a fifty
percent of the business continuing, right, so second generation.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Can even doesn't have to be honest, So maybe it's
thirty percent. What's your number, Devin.
Speaker 8 (28:22):
Well, the research is a little dated now, but it's
it's something less than ten percent, if you could imagine.
Speaker 9 (28:28):
And that's true for all businesses.
Speaker 8 (28:30):
But any business that wants to stand the test of
time is really pushing against the curve.
Speaker 9 (28:34):
Here probability is not weighted in your favor.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
So think about again, forty generations. How infinitesimal that's that,
that chance is.
Speaker 9 (28:43):
That's unbelievable, it's extraordinary.
Speaker 8 (28:46):
It's truly one of the one of the world's oldest
recorded companies.
Speaker 9 (28:49):
And which one is that we operated.
Speaker 8 (28:52):
Ngo Gumi is the name, and unfortunately it's actually a
cautionary tale. So tell us, well, you know, after forty generations.
It was actually the two thousand and eight global financial
crisis that led.
Speaker 9 (29:07):
To the company's downfall.
Speaker 8 (29:09):
After forty generations of temple building, they were originally builders
of Buddhist temples in Japan for the Imperial family, which
itself attracts.
Speaker 9 (29:19):
Lineage back thousands of years.
Speaker 8 (29:22):
They began to diversify, began to take on too much debt,
began to speculate, and you know, can you imagine being
that fortieth exactly whose ancestors are looking, you know, from
beyond the grave at the legging not sure, but also
perhaps some decision making that wasn't in the spirit of
(29:47):
their forebearers.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
So what kind of insights can we learn from these
companies that have been around for you know, centuries and
you know, forty generations. What can we learn from them
if we run a family business today.
Speaker 8 (30:01):
Well, you know, for families like Fungogumi, the idea that
differentiation has been your core competitive asset, the building out
a niche and recognizing that over time interest in Buddhism
has waned. You know, Japan moved through all sorts of
eras of and yet they remained true to their niche.
(30:26):
They stuck to their knitting and maintained a premacy on
quality and customer service and making sure that they focused.
Speaker 9 (30:33):
On their core.
Speaker 8 (30:34):
And it was only when they began to experiment with
things that went beyond the traditional trades and all of
the wisdom that had the ancient wisdom that had been
passed down from generations passed that the family began to
expose itself. In fact, the last leader exposed the entire
enterprise to catastrophic collapse. And so I would say, when
(30:55):
families can leverage their history, the history of having the
institutional memory of having survived crises in the past, this
is something that non family businesses can't often do.
Speaker 9 (31:05):
It's tougher to.
Speaker 8 (31:06):
Pick up the phone and call a CEO who's long
since gone or a manager who was there the last
time we had to deal with a trade conflict or
inflation or a changing regulatory environment. But in a family business, hopefully,
if relations have been preserved and are healthy, you can
pick up the phone and call mom or dad, or
uncle or aunt or cousin and see how we responded
(31:28):
to these issues the last time around.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
But are you saying that because you see a lot
of family businesses you know diversify right to spread their risks.
Are you're saying we should diversify, or if we're diversify,
we got to bring in skills from the outside that
can handle those parts of the business and don't think
that we can do it all exactly.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
So when we began to diversify into new markets, we
need to make sure that we have core expertise there.
If we're acquiring that expertise, then we need to make
sure that there's a cultural fit. If we're building partnerships,
need to make sure that there's values alignment between our
partners and ourselves, especially if we're building relationships so we
expect to endure to stand the tests of time, and
(32:09):
so all of those things, not just looking at the
economic opportunity itself, but the organizational, cultural, and strategic implications
of that diversification are really critical. It's also really important
as we think to diversify it figure out if we
want related diversification or unrelated diversification, uncorrelated or correlated, if
you will, And sometimes we want something completely distinct from
(32:32):
our current operations, so that if what an industry is
being affected by some massive structural change, this other asset
will be protected will not be as affected by what's
happening to us today. And yet if we do that,
we also put ourselves at risk of potentially not having
the competence internally to operate in that other business, or
(32:55):
stretching ourselves too thin. So we need to make sure
that we make these decisions diversifying, not just for the
sake of diversification, but with a strategic content.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
You know, one of the things you mentioned in the book,
and the last thing I want to ask you is
you said that's really important for the leaders to leverage
a frontier mindset. But if you've been in business for
forty generations, or for a lot of our family business
in the US, maybe it's been two or three or
four or six generations, how do you maintain a frontier mindset?
Because it's easy to, as they say, just rest on
(33:25):
your laurels.
Speaker 9 (33:27):
Well, what a terrific question, Barry.
Speaker 8 (33:30):
The challenge, of course, especially if you're operating in the
flow of success.
Speaker 9 (33:34):
Is to find ways of manufacturing adversity.
Speaker 8 (33:37):
Let's just say, to to stress test the business, or
to simulate crises or conduct fire drills, to test your
teams and your assets, and to figure out how they're
going to respond on expected shocks.
Speaker 9 (33:48):
You know, in all the work that we do around
risk with families around the world, we find that it's
less important to predict.
Speaker 8 (33:54):
Which specific risks might actually affect a business. But embracing
a frontier mindset is really more about preparing for a
wide array of potential risks and then building the confidence
and the confidence to handle whatever life throws your way.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Where can people catch up with you? I shure you
appreciate your beyond the show. What's the best place.
Speaker 8 (34:16):
They can catch us on LinkedIn? Our website is LGA
dot global. And would love it if folks picked up
the book and let us know what they think.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Thanks so much, and thanks so much for everyone for
joining this week's radio show. I got to thank our
incredible staff, Sarah Schaffrin, our booking producer, our video and
sound ed or Ethan Moltz. If you're serious about be
more successful New twenty twenty five, give me a call,
I said, a private line seven seven three eight three
seven eight two five zero, or email me at Barry
at Molts dot com. Remember, love everyone, trust a few,
(34:46):
and pal your own canoe. Have a profitable and passionate week.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
You can find Barrymoltz on the web at Barrymolts dot com,
or more episodes of small business Radio at Small Buzess
Radio Show dot com.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
MHM
Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's
exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable.
Small Business Radio is now on the air with your
host Barry Moultz.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, thanks for joining this week's radio show. Remember this
is the final word in small business. For those keeping track,
This is now shown number eight hundred and twenty two. Well,
no matter what the current president thinks, we are moving
to electric vehicles in the future. And I think that
the new bromance that the president has with Elon Musk
(00:40):
almost ensures that. My next guest is Mike Cullias, who
is the Wall Street Journal reporter and veteran of the
US automotive beat. He's based in Michigan, where he's covered
general motors for fourteen years and five years ago added
forward to his duties.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
With access to all the key.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Players in the automotive industry, he has tracked the transition
to electric electric vehicles from its earliest days.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Mike, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Hey, thanks for having me on, Verry.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I just want to go on twenty twelve. Nissan Leaf
I was one of the first ones out there. It
was like a electric golf cart. It went about seventy
five miles.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
That was before it was cool.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And you know something, and if you rolled down the windows,
you got two or three extra mile less miles.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yeah, the aerodynamics right exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
So by the way, I love the car, and it
really was revolutionary at the time and it was very
cool just to plug in when you came home. But
cars have really expanded past that. So how do you
think this second Trump administration is going to affect EV
electronic vehicle development in the US.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
You know, it's not going to help, right, It's it's
I think it's going to slow things down a bit,
but it's not going to derail it. And some of
the narrative is, you know, this is this is this
is curtains for for evs under Trump, and that's that's
not really the case. I mean, there's there's certain things
he'll probably do, like roll back the EPA regulations for
(02:08):
you know, the dictate tail pipe emissions and stuff, and
that'll basically allow the car companies to sell more gas
and diese lunching cars than they would have under the
current Biden rules.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
But those rules are are super strict.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
I think the industry, you know, felt like they needed
to be roll back any it would it would have
required basically half of all new cars to be electrics by.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
The end of this decade. No one really thinks, you know,
at one point people thought that might be possible.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Infrastructure is not there yet, right, correct.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah, So, but there's there's other things.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
You know, the seventy five hundred dollars tax credit that
a lot of people qualify for to buy an EV.
Uh that has to go through Congress. Now I could see,
you know, obviously Republican control both houses.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
I could see uh, you know.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Some GOP long makers wanting to dunk on evs and
and and there's a possibility that goes away.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
But there's other things.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
There's there's tens of more than one hundred billion dollars
in funding for companies that make EV batteries, which is
a huge piece of this for the for the industry
and the automakers. They really are counting on that money.
I don't think, you know, there's there's these battery factories
that are going up all over like Georgia and Tennessee
and Kentucky, all red states. I don't think Converse is
(03:16):
going to take that funding away. So there's there's still
going to be support, and I think it's still a
transition that's going to progress because the companies know that
they need to compete with places like China and elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
So I'm really trying to understand.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I haven't really followed this because I try not to
follow everything that comes out of the President's mouth. What
is really his knock on evs, because certainly all the
traditional car companies have invested heavily in this.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
Well, I mean they this has just become a political
issue over the last couple of years. And you know,
but why but why Well, I think you know, a
lot of it is just people really didn't like a
lot of things that President Biden were doing, you know,
people on the right, and and you know.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
One of the now it's just the oppible.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I think I think it's large I think that's largely it.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
And so you know, you hear President Trump and others
talk about the ev mandate, and there was there was
never a mandate on consumers to buy evs.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Right.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
If anything, it's sort of becoming a golden age for
people who are walking in a showroom for car buyers,
because you've got a ton of different choices now than
you didn't have before, plug in hybrids and way more hybrids,
and now EV's a lot more evs in the market.
So I just think, you know, President start Trump's trying
to dismantle much of what Biden put in place, and
(04:35):
a lot of that's you know, climate policy, and ev
fall into that. And it's as simple as that. On
the Eli Musk part of things, you know, it's interesting.
He's the CEO of the biggest EV maker in the world,
the world, and he's on record is saying he doesn't
think the government should be supporting evs. You know, Tesla
has been the beneficiary of a lot of federal support
(04:56):
over the year.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
So it's a bit like slamming the.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Door behind you, you know, it would it would hurt
Tesla if some of these some of his funding goes away,
like the seventy five hundred bucks. I think he knows that,
but I also think he, you know, he's making a
bet that it would hurt his rivals even more, and
he's probably right because they're not making money yet on evs.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So, Mike, let me ask you a question about Tesla
and evs. Certainly, you know, he was revolutionary as far
as getting the Teslas out there and having to be
two hundred and fifteen miles, how are they doing considering
competitors have a similar you know light, a cinema of distance,
and there's a lot less range anxiety.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Yeah, for sure, there's way more competition for Tesla today
than there was even two or three years ago. There's
a lot of you know, the industry for a long
time never really try that hard on evs, Like you
talked about your niece on leaf, like that's not putting
your best foot forward trying you know, it was sort
of like they were just making stuff to check a
regulatory box. Now they're making actually really cool you know
(05:54):
evs that have long ranges and they're stylish, and so
you know that Tesla is now i think slightly below
fifty percent of US sales, and for the longest time
it was like it was like two thirds or you know,
it was basically all there was. And so there's there
is a lot more competition, there's a lot more to
choose from. You know, Tesla's expanded globally now, so you
(06:17):
know it's strong in China and in Europe, but ses
as sales have hit some headwinds in the last year
and a half too, As you know, we've seen this
kind of broader sort of plateauing and interest in you know,
a lot of analysts I talk to think that we're
going to see this for the next year or two
as people wait for the charging infrastructure to build out,
(06:37):
for prices to come down a little bit, and then
it'll probably reaccelerate later in the decade. That's kind of
the going thought right now.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You know, in my.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Opinion, there was a lot of liberal, progressive people that
really bought the Tesla early on, you know, to help
the climate whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
And now with Elon.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Smith must shift to the right, is he losing some
of those clients, I mean customers? I know that, you know,
one of my friends is returning his Tesla off alease
and he's inscribed to scratch fascists on the side of
the car. He doesn't care what it costs him. So
is that affecting Tesla sales or that's just kind of
(07:15):
a myth.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
I think it's I think it's an impact at least
on the margins, you know. I mean, surveys have shown
that that this has been a turn off to some
Tesla loyalists. You know, just all of the controversy that
swirls around Musk and I I saw something out of
Europe recently where you know, Tesla sales in Germany are
(07:38):
way down, and you know, he's had some controversial remarks,
you know as it relates to Germany, and you know,
it's like he's he's just yeah. I think that people
are starting to question, like, you know, do I want
to do I want to buy a car that's like
this closely identified with everything that you're getting when you
(07:59):
when you talk about Elon Musk.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
So I think it has an impact.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But he's making money so many other ways. He probably
you know, doesn't care. What about where is the EV
car industry now? Right because it seems like there were
new players that came in for some more successful like Teslas,
some were and the major car companies kind of struggled
to catch up. Are the major car companies the traditional
car companies? Are they making it now or is it
(08:24):
still the startup territory?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
They are the big guys are in the game.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
They're growing market share, but it's at volume sales volumes
that are lower than anyone expected. So they put in
all this investment three and four years ago, and there
was a bunch of buzz back then, right there were
big waiting lists. People were you know, super paying about
sicker price. People are super excited about all these new models.
And now, you know, I think for a combination of
(08:53):
people worried about price charging it. You know, you're getting
into a level of buyer.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
It's no longer the early adopters, environmentalist, tech forward people.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
It's it's more of a discerning customer who you know,
isn't sure if it's going to fit in their lifestyle
and are interested in the technology, but g I have
to pay a little bit more. It's just a tough
it can be a tough sell for people. So yes,
the traditional GM for hanaiki has been really strong. You know,
they all have evs in the market, most of buy
(09:21):
and large the companies are losing a lot of money
on their eb products and they're they're they're profitable on
the other stuff and so but the you know, so
they're faced with having to lean into something that right
now they're losing money on because they know eventually they're
going to have to compete. And you know, with companies
like Chinese automakers, maybe not on us soil anytime soon.
(09:44):
But you know, we didn't think the Japanese were going
to take over the take over the market in the
seventies and eighties, and that's what happens.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So let's talk about the Chinese because a lot of
people say their stuff is better, right, and so I
assume we don't see the Chinese. I've looked into this,
but I assume we don't see Chinese cars in America
because of the tariffs or they just can't be sold
in America.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
Yes, so a lot of people if they you know,
if you say the term Chinese electric car, you might
think of like a you know, glorified golf card or
something just something that's you know, not very refined.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
And some of these cars there's a lot of cheap
stuff that's coming out over there, but some of these
cars that they're now exporting into Europe are super stylist, right.
I mean they've hired you know, there's a company called Neo.
They hired BMW's lead designer more than a decade ago,
and now you know, all there's like it's it's really
good looking stuff. It's very the tech is oftentimes better
(10:41):
than what you'd get even in cars in the US
because they've just really put a premium on you know,
the Chinese consumer just expects a certain level of like
ease of technology in the car and so you know,
you're driving up to your home and like it instantly
turns the lights on for you, and you know, the
level the level of integration with the rest of your
like tech life. In China, they've figured that out in
(11:04):
a big way, and evs have have helped in that process. So,
like China's doing, they're putting out a lot of good stuff,
and it's affordable because they've got huge advantages in cost
for a number of different reasons. And so you know,
the European automakers now are a bit freaked out because
some of the stuff is arriving on their shores and
(11:25):
they're worried about being able to compete.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, why don't we see it here is because they're
not allowed to be sold here and the tarifs are
too high. It just makes them unreasonable.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
Tariffs went into effect on Chinese EV's last year, like
one hundred percent tariffs, So that is going to keep
that they're going to keep them out.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
They weren't.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
You know, the Chinese brands didn't launch here before that anyway.
It's just it's a tough market. A lot of times
they've got to, you know, cost them a lot to
sort of meet our safety standards and environmental standards and
things like that. You know, the Chinese automakers have for
fifteen years been looking hard at making inroads into the
(12:03):
US and have just never really pulled the trigger.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
You know, it's interesting you talk about the slow down in.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
The two automobiles in the last four years, and of
course I was an early adopter for EV's Back in
twenty twelve, I didn't buy an EV for either of
my new vehicles, mostly because the cost was still higher.
Is that the stiff new factor? Or is it range anxiety?
Is it they don't think the infrastructure is built out.
(12:30):
I'm not going to be able to charge it. What's
really again holding it back?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Those are the two factors. It's price.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Maybe it's like ten to fifteen percent more expensive to
buy an EV than a comparable gas power car. And
then it's just I just lump all the second part
of what you said into just charging headaches.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Right where am I going to charge?
Speaker 8 (12:52):
You know?
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Is am I going to be able to find a charger.
How long is it going to take when I'm on
a road trip to charge? Like, all those things are
kind of a hang up for people.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
So and back to China.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
You know, almost fifty percent of sales are vs are
plug in hybrids now in China, and it's because they've
they've largely solved those two problems. They're putting out affordable
EV's and they've lit up the country with charging infrastructure
with you know the kind of scale that kind of
only only China's government can bring to bear. But you know,
you can you can see the result if you solve
those two problems, people people want to buy electrics.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, I guess the hybrid thing is really the best
of both worlds. I remember, I believe that when the
BMW came out with their first EV you can have
an optional part where there was like a little charge
or whatever they around gasoline.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Am I right about that?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah? Yeah, so yes, I think that was the I.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Three I think, yeah, yeah, so this is this has
been interesting. Yes, in general, I agree that the hybrids
are going to be a bigger part of this transition
than people expected even just a few years ago. All
the companies are now you know, turn to scramble to
get more hybrids out, including plug and hybrids, and that's
what you're referring to. So this is a car and
(14:06):
there's still small part of the market, but more and
more people are looking for this. It's a car that
goes let's say, thirty to forty or so miles on
purely electric range. So you can get around town not
using a drop of gas, come home, charge it in,
you know, plug it in at night, and do it
again the next day. I mean, you can go weeks
and months without it, probably.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Your daily commute, right or go at the grocery store
or whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Exactly, but then you got the backup guess engine if
you've got to go out of town or whatever. And
so that's that's a really nice option for people. It
gives people peace of mind. I think we're going to
I think we're going to see more of that. Those
are a little more expensive too, right, but I think
it's for people who don't want to take the leap
on a fully electric car.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
It's a nice option.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I think I saw in the paper this past week
how Trump is rolling back the rebates for chargers. Is
that a thing, and is that going to affect the
infrastructure on the network.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Yeah, so there was an infrastructure bill passed early in
the Biden administration. Seven billion dollars is made available to
help with this charging network, and most of that money
was to go to chargers on highways because that's that's
the biggest road trips are kind of the biggest problem.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
So the states, that money gets funneled through the states.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
And then companies apply to the states to get the
money and then they install chargers. A lot of that
money has gone out the door, but it's in process.
It's either it's already gone to the state or the
state is in the process of you know, providing it
to the companies who are putting in the chargers. The
administration is trying to put a freeze on all of that,
and it's unclear if legally they can do that.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So it's it's it's a big it's a big.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Question mark now as to what happens with that money
because most of it hadn't been you know, only I
think it's less than a billion of that seven billion
dollars had actually been put into the ground, and so
it's in some some you know state of getting to
where it needs to go, and we're going to have
to just see how this plays out.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
It'll probably end up in the courts, like not not
helpful in the long run.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
On the short run, it is delayed.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
What is the state of fast chargers, right? That was
always the dream where you had these fast chargers that
could charge the car in twenty minutes long highways. Is
that what's being put in or were still at this
you know two twenty charging speed?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
No, the fast chargers, yes, that is that is the trick,
and those are really expensive.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Those can be like over one hundred thousand dollars, and
that that is what most of that federal money was for.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
You know, there are private companies putting in fast chargers.
The Tesla's supercharger network is by far the best in
the industry. There was a bunch of deals in the
last eighteen months with all the tradition, almost all of
the traditional car makers cut a deal with Tesla to
allow their customers into certain probably most of those stations.
(16:53):
That's going to make a big difference, I think. So
you know, if you drive a whatever, a Chevy Blazer,
Ev'd be able to stop at a Tesla supercharger, and
that's that's going to open up the network a bit.
But there's there's a lot of money going into highway
charging because that you know, that is the that is
the trick and and and they're also you know, the
(17:15):
cars now are able to take a fast charge more
so than in the past. So you know, a lot
of it depends on the power of the strength of
the charger, but also the car itself. And we're seeing
more that can can accept that higher charge. So you
do you are getting cars that can get one hundred,
one hundred and fifty miles and a half hour.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
And you know that's that can be doable.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So let me ask you one more question. Look into
your crystal ball. It's twenty five years from now. What
percentage of US car owners on an EV.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Yeah, that's always the big question, right, I mean twenty
five years. So let's just I'll give you this some increments.
I mean, I think by the end of this decade,
you know, just kind of like look at the experts, say,
if we're at ten percent now.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
You're one of the experts, though, so what do you.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Use, right, maybe fifteen to twenty percent by the end
of this decade, middle of next you know, twenty thirty
five around a third, and then to your twenty five years.
I mean, I think you're always going to have gas
in diesel for a long long time. Same with hybrid,
which is, you know, an internal combustion engine. But I'd
be surprised if it wasn't well over half the market
(18:24):
twenty five years from now being an electricer.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Listen, we know in mad Max they go back to gas, right,
So yeah, that's the thing. So, Mike, I appreciate be
on the show. Where can people catch up with you?
And writing for the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 9 (18:38):
You know my stuff.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I tend to stick to LinkedIn, not as active on
Twitter as I was anymore, but.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah, email's great too. Just look me up on the
Wall Street Chail website. You can find me.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Mike, thanks for joining the show. This is the Small
Business Radio Show. We'll be right back. My work with
thousands of small business owners over the last twenty years
inspired me to write my next book on how to
make changes.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well that's not exactly true.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
More accurately, my frustration and the resulting challenges working with
small business owners forced me to write this new book.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Let me explain.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I'm often asked by companies and small business owners that
I don't know to help them. Typically, they're feeling stuck
by a problem and their companies can't move forward. After
analyze the situation, we mutually decide on a go forward strategy.
I help them assemble a detailed plan to make any
changes and the critical sess factors and actions that need
to be completed. They agree that taking these actions will
(19:39):
help them solve their issue for their company and make
them more money, and then almost nothing happens. Unfortunately, most
small business owners implement a few easy steps but never
take the critical or difficult ones that could make a difference.
This has long frustrated me. Since we worked really hard,
(20:00):
I'm putting together this plan and at the beginning we're
both excited about the result. I wrote my new book,
Change Masters, How to Actually make the changes you already
know you need to make to figure out why small
business owners do not make the changes or take the
actions that they know will help.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Them reach their goals.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Where is the gap between sincere intent to make these
changes and the actions to actually do it? What holds
most people back and keeps them stuck on the same
path over and over again. Why are they still so
comfortable and not making these changes and staying on a
path that clearly doesn't work for them. One thing is
(20:39):
it's not adding to their happiness and it's not adding to.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Their feelings success.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
What steps do they need to take to slowly break
free and start to make those changes today.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
That will help them in the long run.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
In my new book, I reveal much of the psychological
research around why change is just so hard for so
many people in real life strategies that every small business
owner can employ right now to make the changes they
need to make in their companies to grow. So get
my new book, Change Masters. Remember I'm not trying to
convince you to make a change, but rather help you
(21:13):
make the changes you already know you need to take.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Stick around to get your small business unstuck. More of
Small Business Radio with Barry moles.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Well. We all know that family businesses are the most
common form of business in the entire world, But how
do they thrive during turbulent times, either caused by the economy,
external factors, or by something going on inside the family.
Devin Desanta's is the managing partner at Landsberg Gersik Advisors,
(21:51):
a trusted advisor, an educational partner to the world's leading
family enterprises is there author a book called The Enduring Enterprise,
How family business says thrive in Turbulent conditions. His writings
have been featuring in The Harvest Business Review, The Atlantic,
and The Walrus.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Devin, welcome to the show.
Speaker 9 (22:11):
Thanks much, Berry, It's great to be here.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
What we most want to know is what's the Walrus?
I thought that was like a Beatles song.
Speaker 9 (22:18):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 8 (22:19):
Inspired by Lewis Carroll, paulm actually many many years ago
our short story.
Speaker 9 (22:25):
But it's a Canadian magazine of ideas.
Speaker 8 (22:28):
Sort of the Canada's equivalent to The Atlantic or Harper's Magazine.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
So one of the questions about family businesses I have,
because I have a lot of experience, you know, working
with family businesses, mediating family businesses, it seems like for
most of them there's always a turbulent time.
Speaker 8 (22:45):
Why is that, Well, it's an interesting question. Turbulences. In
our opinion, and based on our research, product of context,
and so where we wanted to focus our efforts in fact,
was those places times where the external context was so
turbulent that it introduced a layer of organizational challenge that
(23:09):
required a different form of leadership, a different form of
organizational structure, different form of.
Speaker 9 (23:13):
Governance, and so forth.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
You might argue, as we do in the book, that
advanced economies have really enjoyed a golden age of stability
over the last half century or longer, at the privileged
peak of the developmental ladder, and that has enabled commercial
life to flourish. But really you could argue that even
within advanced economies there's a you know, it's not monolithic.
(23:38):
That the largest and most successful of the companies that
operate in these environments in the US, the UK, Canada, and
parts of Western Europe are able to leverage abundance, whereas
you know, maybe further down the size ladder for small
and medium sized business is scarcity is endemic.
Speaker 9 (23:58):
And so we act.
Speaker 8 (24:00):
We find a lot of echoes between the experience of
small businesses in the United States with all businesses operating
and emerging in frontier economies, you know, places like Venezuela
and Yemen and Nigeria and other locations around the world
that we feature throughout the book.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
So, Devin, give us an example about are you talking
about a business, a family business that shifts its emphasis
over time?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I mean a lot of us are familiar with the
Laman trilogy.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's a Broadway show, and you see how the Lehman brothers,
you know, shifted from I don't know, I mean I
forget you know, they had like a general store to
doing financial markets. Is that what we're talking about or
something else?
Speaker 8 (24:39):
It is, yes, that and a variety of different pathologies
of entrepreneurial success. Over time, Some companies will start with
a strategy of what we call differentiation, which is to
focus on a niche and to try to become a
big fish in a small pond. And there are many
examples of this, from ancient to Italian glass blowers and
(25:00):
French wineries and Japanese hotels to.
Speaker 9 (25:05):
Many of the.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
Largest companies that are still surviving today. But just because
you began in one niche doesn't mean you need to
remain there.
Speaker 9 (25:12):
And so as we.
Speaker 8 (25:13):
Track the evolution of these enduring enterprises over time, you
often find that diversification will become or diversity will become
a big part of their strategy, recognizing that exposure to
only one industry over time can lead you vulnerable to
catastrophic collapse, and so if you build out adjacent markets
or adjacent products or something completely associated from the original
(25:38):
entrepreneurial legacy that in fact, you can build up your
resilience over time as well as achieve higher levels of growth.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So do you find that shifting from the entrepreneur legacy
business is more difficult for family businesses or it's simpler
because you basically have just one head and they're going
to call the shots, almost like it's a person in
their kingdom, or a lot of times there isn't one leader,
so decision making is fractured.
Speaker 8 (26:07):
It's a really interesting observation Barry. On the one hand,
for younger family businesses, those that are still led by
a controlling owner or maybe a group of siblings in
a partnership, consolidation of control and authority does make decision
making faster if you will, and you don't have to
run it up and down the flagpole and various committees
(26:27):
and layers of bureaucracy. On the other hand, families often
have a deep emotional connection to their entrepreneurial legacy and
to the assets that the founder had created in the
success that they had achieved, and so it it can
lead decision making in the face of those kinds of
pivot or persevere moments, a little more complicated, less rational,
(26:48):
less quantitative, and more qualitative and more about this sort
of the feel of what it means to have somebody
else operating a business that our grandparents founded and that
still carries their family's name.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
We know a lot of family business and you asked,
you know, Ford as they Lauder, you know these kinds
of things. But really, in Asia, there really are some
really old family businesses that you talk about in the book.
I mean, I think we're all familiar with you know, Kikoman,
if we like Soy sauce, or Ikia, if we like
furniture or Samsung. Of course, does a lot of different things.
(27:20):
Tell us about what you learned about those companies, those
family owned businesses.
Speaker 9 (27:25):
Yeah, terrific question. We in fact went and in twenty
nineteen and met with five.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
Families there some of the oldest and most ancient clients,
and combined their total age was over twenty five hundred years. Wow.
You can imagine the kinds of the kinds of experiences
that go through having you know, in the case of
one of the families, forty generations of continuous entrepreneurship passed
down from.
Speaker 9 (27:50):
Often fathers to sometimes to you know, adopted sons and.
Speaker 8 (27:55):
Daughters in the absence of a natural air, but still
remaining true to the original operating businesses.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Evan, I just want to I want to pouge it
for a second. I want to punsu because because forty generations,
I mean statistically, you know, statistically, every every generation you
go through, in my experience, you've got about a fifty
percent of the business continuing, right, so second generation.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Can even doesn't have to be honest, So maybe it's
thirty percent. What's your number, Devin.
Speaker 8 (28:22):
Well, the research is a little dated now, but it's
it's something less than ten percent, if you could imagine.
Speaker 9 (28:28):
And that's true for all businesses.
Speaker 8 (28:30):
But any business that wants to stand the test of
time is really pushing against the curve.
Speaker 9 (28:34):
Here probability is not weighted in your favor.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
So think about again, forty generations. How infinitesimal that's that,
that chance is.
Speaker 9 (28:43):
That's unbelievable, it's extraordinary.
Speaker 8 (28:46):
It's truly one of the one of the world's oldest
recorded companies.
Speaker 9 (28:49):
And which one is that we operated.
Speaker 8 (28:52):
Ngo Gumi is the name, and unfortunately it's actually a
cautionary tale. So tell us, well, you know, after forty generations.
It was actually the two thousand and eight global financial
crisis that led.
Speaker 9 (29:07):
To the company's downfall.
Speaker 8 (29:09):
After forty generations of temple building, they were originally builders
of Buddhist temples in Japan for the Imperial family, which
itself attracts.
Speaker 9 (29:19):
Lineage back thousands of years.
Speaker 8 (29:22):
They began to diversify, began to take on too much debt,
began to speculate, and you know, can you imagine being
that fortieth exactly whose ancestors are looking, you know, from
beyond the grave at the legging not sure, but also
perhaps some decision making that wasn't in the spirit of
(29:47):
their forebearers.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
So what kind of insights can we learn from these
companies that have been around for you know, centuries and
you know, forty generations. What can we learn from them
if we run a family business today.
Speaker 8 (30:01):
Well, you know, for families like Fungogumi, the idea that
differentiation has been your core competitive asset, the building out
a niche and recognizing that over time interest in Buddhism
has waned. You know, Japan moved through all sorts of
eras of and yet they remained true to their niche.
(30:26):
They stuck to their knitting and maintained a premacy on
quality and customer service and making sure that they focused.
Speaker 9 (30:33):
On their core.
Speaker 8 (30:34):
And it was only when they began to experiment with
things that went beyond the traditional trades and all of
the wisdom that had the ancient wisdom that had been
passed down from generations passed that the family began to
expose itself. In fact, the last leader exposed the entire
enterprise to catastrophic collapse. And so I would say, when
(30:55):
families can leverage their history, the history of having the
institutional memory of having survived crises in the past, this
is something that non family businesses can't often do.
Speaker 9 (31:05):
It's tougher to.
Speaker 8 (31:06):
Pick up the phone and call a CEO who's long
since gone or a manager who was there the last
time we had to deal with a trade conflict or
inflation or a changing regulatory environment. But in a family business, hopefully,
if relations have been preserved and are healthy, you can
pick up the phone and call mom or dad, or
uncle or aunt or cousin and see how we responded
(31:28):
to these issues the last time around.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
But are you saying that because you see a lot
of family businesses you know diversify right to spread their risks.
Are you're saying we should diversify, or if we're diversify,
we got to bring in skills from the outside that
can handle those parts of the business and don't think
that we can do it all exactly.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
So when we began to diversify into new markets, we
need to make sure that we have core expertise there.
If we're acquiring that expertise, then we need to make
sure that there's a cultural fit. If we're building partnerships,
need to make sure that there's values alignment between our
partners and ourselves, especially if we're building relationships so we
expect to endure to stand the tests of time, and
(32:09):
so all of those things, not just looking at the
economic opportunity itself, but the organizational, cultural, and strategic implications
of that diversification are really critical. It's also really important
as we think to diversify it figure out if we
want related diversification or unrelated diversification, uncorrelated or correlated, if
you will, And sometimes we want something completely distinct from
(32:32):
our current operations, so that if what an industry is
being affected by some massive structural change, this other asset
will be protected will not be as affected by what's
happening to us today. And yet if we do that,
we also put ourselves at risk of potentially not having
the competence internally to operate in that other business, or
(32:55):
stretching ourselves too thin. So we need to make sure
that we make these decisions diversifying, not just for the
sake of diversification, but with a strategic content.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
You know, one of the things you mentioned in the book,
and the last thing I want to ask you is
you said that's really important for the leaders to leverage
a frontier mindset. But if you've been in business for
forty generations, or for a lot of our family business
in the US, maybe it's been two or three or
four or six generations, how do you maintain a frontier mindset?
Because it's easy to, as they say, just rest on
(33:25):
your laurels.
Speaker 9 (33:27):
Well, what a terrific question, Barry.
Speaker 8 (33:30):
The challenge, of course, especially if you're operating in the
flow of success.
Speaker 9 (33:34):
Is to find ways of manufacturing adversity.
Speaker 8 (33:37):
Let's just say, to to stress test the business, or
to simulate crises or conduct fire drills, to test your
teams and your assets, and to figure out how they're
going to respond on expected shocks.
Speaker 9 (33:48):
You know, in all the work that we do around
risk with families around the world, we find that it's
less important to predict.
Speaker 8 (33:54):
Which specific risks might actually affect a business. But embracing
a frontier mindset is really more about preparing for a
wide array of potential risks and then building the confidence
and the confidence to handle whatever life throws your way.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Where can people catch up with you? I shure you
appreciate your beyond the show. What's the best place.
Speaker 8 (34:16):
They can catch us on LinkedIn? Our website is LGA
dot global. And would love it if folks picked up
the book and let us know what they think.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Thanks so much, and thanks so much for everyone for
joining this week's radio show. I got to thank our
incredible staff, Sarah Schaffrin, our booking producer, our video and
sound ed or Ethan Moltz. If you're serious about be
more successful New twenty twenty five, give me a call,
I said, a private line seven seven three eight three
seven eight two five zero, or email me at Barry
at Molts dot com. Remember, love everyone, trust a few,
(34:46):
and pal your own canoe. Have a profitable and passionate week.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
You can find Barrymoltz on the web at Barrymolts dot com,
or more episodes of small business Radio at Small Buzess
Radio Show dot com.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
MHM
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