April 7, 2025 • 34 mins
Segment 1 with Michael E. Gerber starts at 0.00
Inc. Magazine calls him “the World’s #1 Small Business Guru” — the entrepreneurial and small business thought leader who has impacted the lives of millions of small business owners and hundreds of thousands of companies worldwide for over 40 years.
Michael E. Gerber is a celebrated entrepreneur, author, and business coach renowned for his groundbreaking book, "The E Myth: Why Most Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It." With a career spanning several decades, he has transformed the way small businesses operate by emphasizing the importance of effective systems and strategic planning. Gerber’s philosophy encourages entrepreneurs to work on their business rather than merely in it, fostering sustainable growth and innovation.
Segment 2 with Allen Batteau starts at 18:49.
Why are we tie our self worth and identity to tech devices? Why do advances in tech many times disappoint us?
Allen Batteau is a cultural anthropologist, professor at Wayne State University's Department of Anthropology, and former director of the University's Institute for Information Technology and Culture. He is the author of "Tools, Totems, and Totalities"
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-small-business-radio-show--3306444/support.
Inc. Magazine calls him “the World’s #1 Small Business Guru” — the entrepreneurial and small business thought leader who has impacted the lives of millions of small business owners and hundreds of thousands of companies worldwide for over 40 years.
Michael E. Gerber is a celebrated entrepreneur, author, and business coach renowned for his groundbreaking book, "The E Myth: Why Most Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It." With a career spanning several decades, he has transformed the way small businesses operate by emphasizing the importance of effective systems and strategic planning. Gerber’s philosophy encourages entrepreneurs to work on their business rather than merely in it, fostering sustainable growth and innovation.
Segment 2 with Allen Batteau starts at 18:49.
Why are we tie our self worth and identity to tech devices? Why do advances in tech many times disappoint us?
Allen Batteau is a cultural anthropologist, professor at Wayne State University's Department of Anthropology, and former director of the University's Institute for Information Technology and Culture. He is the author of "Tools, Totems, and Totalities"
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-small-business-radio-show--3306444/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's
exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable.
Small Business Radio is now on the air with your host,
Barry Maltz.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well thanks for joining this week's radio show. Remember this
is the final word in small business for those keeping track,
This is now show number eight twenty eight. Well. Eve
Magazine calls my next guest the world's number one small
business Guru, the entrepreneur and small business thought leader who
has impacted the lives of millions of small businesses and
(00:39):
owners over the last forty years. Michael E. Gerber is
a celebrated entrepreneur, author, and business coach, renown of course
for his groundbreaking book The Emath Why Most Businesses Don't
Work And What Do about Them. With a career spanning
several decades, he has transformed the way small business operates
by emphasizing the importance effective systems and strategic planning. Michael,
(01:02):
welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Thank you, Barry. It's been a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It's been a long time. So you came out with
the e myth in nineteen eighty eight. Where'd you come
up with the idea? That people should work on their business,
not just in their business.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yes, absolutely, and I did that. And I learned that
by a meeting with small business owners and discovering how
they were consumed by doing it, doing it, doing it, busy, busy, busy.
But they were consumed with the wrong thing. They were
working in their business, not on their business. They weren't
creating a business that works. They were creating a job
(01:37):
for themselves.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
And so this is so common among small business owners.
They've really just created job for themselves. But it's so hard, Michael,
for people to transition to work on their business. What's
the first step to do that? The step outside yourself
from the rat race every single day of just doing
it all yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Well, the first step, Barry, is to read the book
Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work. I just heard from
my publisher that The e Myth Revisited is the fifth
five most successful business book ever published.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, congratulations, and you're you're moving up fast than the Bible, right.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yes, next to the Bible, you got it, the Bible
for business owners right right.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So what's the first step to people to make that transition?
Read the book? And what's the first step to work
on your business that in your business that you think
is most beneficial.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
The first step is to understand why it's so important
that being consumed by what I call doing it, doing it,
doing it, busy, busy, busy, busy doesn't.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Get you anywhere.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
All it gets you is to the next thing you
got to do, and the next thing you got to do,
and the next thing you got to do.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
But there is no future in it.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
In fact, if you go to the statistics, the SBA
will tell you that this year twenty twenty five, there'll
be roughly four point seven million new startups, new comries,
and within the tenth year from today, ninety eight percent
(03:20):
of them will be out of business. Get that, Yeah,
ninety eight percent of them will have failed.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So that's not just a fact, it's a tragedy. And
you got to ask the question why is that?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
And the answers you get the stereotypical answers you did.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
They didn't have enough money, they didn't have.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
A competitive difference, and didn't know how to manage all
the reasons people will tell you, but none of them
mean anything. While all of them are true, none of
them will make the difference. The only thing that will
make the difference is awakening the true entrepreneur within them,
(04:03):
because none of them are truly entrepreneurs. They're what I
call technicians, separate from an entrepreneurial seizure.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
So, Michael, how do you figure entrepreneurship is right?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
How do you figure out because I don't believe that
everyone is meant to run a business, how do you
figure out if you can be an entrepreneur versus you're
just a technician that should help someone operate a business.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Well, let me suggest that this is this is terribly
an egocentric in a way, but if you'll read Awakening
the Entrepreneur within, you'll come face to face with.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
What an entrepreneur actually is.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
And an entrepreneur is actually eight different discrete personalities, and
I define them as the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller,
the leader, the designer, the builder, the launcher, the grower.
The dreamer has a dream, The thinker has a vision.
The storyteller has a purpose. The leader has a mission.
(05:08):
The designer has a client fulfillment system. The builder has
a practice, which is in fact your franchise prototype or
what I call your three legged stool, lead generation, lead conversion,
client fulfillment, the three absolutely crucial systems that live at
the heart of anything you're going to create that you
(05:31):
might call a business. And once you design your practice,
lead generation, lead conversion, client fulfillment, the next step is
creating your business.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So the question is then, what is a business? A
business is.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Nothing other than up to seven turn key practices plus
the turnkey management system. And the next step, and the
final step to create a great growing company is your enterprise.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
What's an enterprise?
Speaker 4 (06:03):
An enterprise is nothing other than up to seven turnkey businesses.
Get it, forty nine turnkey practices plus a turnkey leadership system.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So then the menu, you get the model, and it's
a model.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
It's a prototype, Barry a prototypically certain to enable you
to see what's missing in what you're doing today and
what is missing and what.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
You're doing today is everything I just talked about.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So can an entrepreneur Michael really be all these things?
Or they have to find they have to figure out
which ones they are and then find.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
If they all those things, it ain't gonna work.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It ain't gonna work, okay.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
And that's the way to decide. Am I one or
aren't I?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
What do you think the biggest thing that people get
wrong about the email, what do they misinterpret?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Well, the biggest thing that they get off on and
the biggest thing that stands in the way of them
truly getting it is that they're technicians. The chiropractor is
the chiropractor. The attorney is an attorney. The landscape designer
is a landscape design They're caught up in the tactical
(07:21):
work of what they do. They're consumed by the tactical
work of what they do. They can't see anywhere beyond the.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Tactical work that they do.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
And until they can see beyond the tactical work they do,
until they can rise above the tactical work they do
so they can see it from above separate themselves from it,
they'll never be able to do what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Michael, what do you think what's a commonly held belief
about business success that you disagree with? Because one of
the things I always disagree with is you know, you've
got to follow your dream. I don't think that's a
formula for success necessarily.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Well, the problem is most people don't have one. So
you say you got to follow your dream, I just said,
the dream is the very first thing, what's the dream. Well,
my dream in nineteen seventy seven when I started this
journey was to transform the state of small business worldwide.
That was my dream. The question then is what's my vision.
(08:30):
My vision was to invent the McDonald's of small business
development services? What in the hell did I mean by that?
But we'd have to talk about what in the hell
we mean by that.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Because that's crucial as a vision.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
The vision is visual, emotional, functional, and financial. What's the
next step? The next step is my purpose? What's my purpose?
That's the storyteller's role. And at the heart of all
this story first the dream, second division, third, the story
(09:05):
for the mission, the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
You get it.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I get it. And you talk so many times, Michael
about that people have to set up these you champion systems,
and I believe that somewhere along the line, business should
be able to run on a daily basis without the
entrepreneur or the founder. But they can't separate themselves their
identity from the business, so they stay involved in every
single task.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
What do you think, of course, and that's what we've
been talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well, tell me more about that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
In other words, if they're stuck in what I call
doing it, doing it, doing it, they're never going to
grow beyond doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it.
And you can immediately say if the chiropractor is doing it,
doing it, doing it, doing it, and if they're practiced,
depends upon them being.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The or to do it, do it, do it. It
ain't going to go anywhere. It's not going to grow.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
And until they can replicate themselves, they can't grow beyond.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Doing it, doing it, doing it.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
I love that the majority of small companies startups will
never get beyond just that a job.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
For the person who started it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One of the things that I've always seen, other.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Than a job for the person who started it, it
ain't going to go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Where it goes instead is it fails.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I think one of the problems is that they can't
get beyond No one can do it as good as me.
Therefore I have to do everything.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
How do you that the other way of simply saying
that they're stuck in the technician's role because they don't
know how to do it any differently than that can
be until they learn how to do it differently than.
That barrier it's not going to change.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
What usually propels people to make a change because I
find I mean, I wrote a whole book on change.
I find that people have a hard time making any
kind of change. And the only change, Yeah, that's it,
that's it, exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Fear exhaustion coming face to face with the reality of
where they are. Absolutely and until they come face to
face with the reality of where they are, nothing's going
to change.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
That.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I find that again, fear obviously is the biggest motivator.
What about a six What about an entrepreneur that's very,
very small, a solopreneur and just wants to have like
a craft business or a hobby. Is that okay?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Anything's okay, Barry, But understand, there is no such thing
as a solopreneur. That's just somebody who made up that
term so they could sell what they do to solopreneurs.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's so true.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
My such thing is a solopreneur. An entrepreneur doesn't do solo.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Right, you can't really do it yourself. What if you
could challenge one of the assumption held by like the
startup culture, right like Silicon Valley. What would that be?
What's something they believe that in your experience just asn't true.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Arry, I just celebrated my eighty eighth.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Birth amazing, congratulations.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I'm going on my eighty ninth year. None of it's.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
True, So I'm fond of saying it's all bullshit, and
until we get beyond that, nothing's going to change. What
I've shared with you just now is the greatest secret
on the planet. In short, once one gets what I
(12:45):
just shared with you, well one will understand why I'm
ninety eight percent of all businesses go out of business
literally not just making that up, literally go out of business.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Think about that.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, I keep thinking that. One of my favorite things
that got it wrong. They get wrong is that they
just think they can just keep getting funding, keep getting funding,
keep getting funding. And I think that actually, sometimes having
too much money in a business makes you stupid, right,
that they just rely on that, and that's what's wrong
about it. That you don't have to make a profit.
And I think that's just wrong. And there are some
(13:22):
examples of that that companies succeed, but that's not you.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
What is the biggest mistake that you made early in
your career that no one really guess by reading your books?
What did you go through.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Well, the biggest mistake I made was I didn't realize
how little interested I was in managing people, in managing it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It took me ten years to learn, Michael.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Business bores me. What doesn't bore me is creating. So
in reality, I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm a creator. I'm
closer to Walt Disney than I am to Steve Jobs.
And the similarity between us and I may it sound
(14:16):
like a terribly egoistic thing to say, the similarity between
us is I love to create, but I don't love
to operate a company.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
So does the There's a lot of creators out there.
So does the creator need a business partner that actually
is the business entrepreneur?
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I'm sorry, does.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
The creator actually need a partner that's the business entrepreneur
for the be successful?
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Well, understand that the creator is only one part of
the entrepreneurial persona. So if we go back to what
I originally spoke about, the dreamer of the thinker, the
story deel, the creator lives within each and every one
of those, but without each and every one of those,
(15:04):
you're not going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
So first, the dream second division, you.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Follow me, it's a process, and the process it followed religiously, and.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Religiously is the key word.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
It followed religiously will lead the prospective entrepreneur toward an
evolution beyond what they would normally expect themselves to be
able to do, and that evolution is absolutely exquisite.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You know, if this has been so hard for entrepreneurs
to work on the business rather than in the business,
why do you think it was so successful? It really
hit hard saying this is really the key about business?
Why do you think so many people relate to it?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I'm sorry, say it again, Barry, Why do.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You think so many people relate to working in the business, sorry,
on the business, rather than in the business. If it's
so hard to.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Do exactly, it's so hard to do, especially so hard
to do because they're inclined not to do that. They're
mostly inclined to do what I just described, doing.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
It, doing it, doing it, doing it, busy, busy, busy, busy.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
But what if it's so hard, why do you think
people relate to it so much? Because I think when
anybody hears that, they go, ah, that's it. That's how
I get off the rat race, you know, that's the
fascinating part to.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Me, that's what they say, but then they don't do it.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Agreed, Agreed, it's so interesting, Michael. I would tell you
that every single week when I talk to entrepreneurs, someone
always says your phrase, I got to work on the business,
not in the business. Every single week I hear that.
It's just really amazing the impact. Is that really what
your legacy is or what would you like your legacy
to be?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Of course that's where it came from my work.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
But understand, rather than saying every time I talk to entrepreneurs,
say instead every time I talk to a founder or
an operator, every time I talk to an owner, don't
call them an entrepreneur so readily because you don't know
that they are. But an interesting conversation that you might
(17:16):
have is to find out if they are. And what
you're going to find out is the vast majority of
them aren't.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree with that, Michael.
I can't believe you're in an eightiath year. Where can
people catch up with or eighty ninth You're almost where
can people catch up with you?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Well, they can go to Michael at Michael Egerber dot com.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Michael Thanks so much for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And it's always say to everybody, join me in the
dreaming room. And that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
That's a whole other conversation. Michael, thanks for joining us.
This is the Small Business Radio Show. We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Thinking of starting your own business. Get on board for
a crazy ride. Be the first person to tweet Berry
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Need to Be a Little Crazy, The Truth about starting
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Speaker 1 (18:09):
Stick around to get your small business unstuck. More of
Small Business Radio with Barry moles.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You know I've always wondered why do advances in technology
many times disappoint us. My next guest is Alan Botteau.
He's a cultural anthropologist, professor of Wayne State University's Department Anthropology,
and former director of Universities Institute for Information Technology and Culture.
He's the author of the Anthropology of Aviation and Flight Safety,
(18:39):
The Anthropological Approaches the Culture Aviation and Flight Safety, numerous
other books, including his new book called Tools, Totems and Totalities. Alan,
Welcome to the show. Thank you so First describe what
the title of the book.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Means, Okay, we think of technology as something useful, and
certainly it is a tool that is useful, but it
has two other faces that really we should be critiquing.
First of all, it's tootemic, in other words, we worship it.
(19:20):
And second it's totality. It defines our lives. And this
is very much a modern invention. Okay, the concept of
technology really has been around only about a couple hundred years.
And before that humans use tools, but we were not
(19:42):
kind of in the grip of our tools.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So you say something very interesting, Allan, And again, whenever
we talk about technology, I keep thinking about the iPhone, right,
because that's certainly was a significant technology advancement. You say,
you know, we worship it, right, And I think that's
really true. We live our li lies by it. That's
really true. Why do we do that.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
Well, that's a hugely interesting question, and I would say
it's partly because, and I'll focus on American society, because
American society is more in love with technology than any
other society. And American the founding event invent of American society,
(20:28):
of course, is the conquest of the Frontier. And when
John F. Kennedy was sworn in it was the new Frontier,
and many years later, as the Internet came into being,
it was called the Electronic Frontier. And the frontier is
(20:50):
a powerful symbol in American society because it's a conquest
of nature, okay, our our civilization advancing into nature. Interestingly,
the original meaning of the frontier was a boundary, okay,
But in our society, the frontier is kind of the
(21:12):
boundary of between civilization and nature, and the conquest of
nature is kind of a defining narrative for American society.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And so how does that relate to technology that we
can control or we are above society, that this is
something different, something new, something that makes us feel superior.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
Yes, we technology gives us control, okay, it's or, rather
more accurately, it's supposed to give us control over nature,
over society, over our fellow human beings. But in so
doing we kind of put us put ourselves in the
(21:57):
grip of technology. I have in the book I quote
by Ralph Emerson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, things are in the
saddle and ride bankkind okay. And we really kind of
are being written by technology.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
And why do you think that just because we want
more control.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
Well, let me okay, let me give what I think
is the perfect example of many people. And okay, I'm
an anthropologist, so I look at the grand sweep of humanity.
In the grand sweep of humanity is the advancement from
(22:40):
tribal societies to civilization. But one thing that people have
noted and tribalism is the idea that we're divided into
different tribes. And not only do I not want do
I not understand you? I don't want to understand you.
You are the other right, And supposedly, supposedly the Internet
(23:07):
has was to overcome this by connecting us around the globe.
But in fact, what's happened, and we have the statistics
to demonstrate this, is that with the rise of the
Internet over the third last thirty years, tribalism, concerns of
tribalism have increased, right, And I mean, there's hugely interesting
(23:32):
question there. Why has and why has the internet fragmented
our society?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
And why has it? Is it because whatever tribe you
belong to, whatever you believe in, you can find common
people that share the same values or whatever truth you're
looking for, you can find that truth somewhere on the Internet.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
All the above, and see the interesting thing is and
I had one more thing that the Internet is very
much kind of exploited by powth powerful interests, both government
and business. Excuse me, but with the Internet, we can
(24:19):
find members of our tribe halfway around the world. Think
about that a second. Okay, you can make connections with
people over halfway around the world. But in so doing,
your disconnecting yourself with your neighbors in a human community.
(24:41):
A human community as opposed to a tribe, okay, really
depends on face to face, trusting, conviviality, interaction with face
to face. With the Internet, you have just text messages
(25:02):
or email, and can how do you build a trusting
relationship with a text message? That's a serious question.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Plus in many cases it's alan, it's anonymous. You can
hide be heap in whatever type of thing you're not
really seeing quoteunquote a real person.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
It could even be a bot exactly correct. Yeah, And
I mean, and let me take that one step further,
that there are there's an economy economist, excuse me, an economy, uh,
the attention economy that harvests human attention uh and sells
(25:42):
it to advertisers uh. And Uh, we am paying attention
to you because I trust that you are a human being.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (25:56):
I don't. I think you're more intelligent than about But
others kind of have used the these connections, uh, these
anonymous connections to harvest attention. Okay, there's much to be
(26:19):
said about face to face communication, trusting relationships, con viviality.
We talk about this a little bit, okay, but when
we replace face to face trusting communication uh with text messages,
(26:40):
something is lost.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, definitely, the connection is lost. Alan, you mentioned at
the very beginning of the show that you know Americans
are more in love with technology than most other societies.
Why are we? Is it because our history is so young,
so we don't have thousands of years of roots. Is
it because geographic were more isolated? What do you think?
Speaker 6 (27:04):
I think it's all the above. I mean, uh, we
are a new society, thing of of the.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
There's a book a few years back, the New Nation,
the first new nation. America was the first new nation,
and our novelty is part of that. Uh. And as
I said earlier, our conquest of the frontier is part
of that. Is well, but into this void steps powerful
(27:40):
interests who have figured out how to use these technologies
to ride mankind.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
And it's interesting also you talk about in the book
that you know, many times, while we love these technologies,
were disappointed by them. I remember reading a book years
back called where is my Jet Pack?
Speaker 6 (28:03):
Right?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Where's my Flying Car? Right? And it seems to me
that there's a lot of technology forecasts that are not realized.
Some of course, are realized. You know, the portable communicator,
be on the phone, But where is my jet pack?
Where's my flying car? Why does even if we're in
love with technology, why does it so many times disappoint us?
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Okay, well, think about the relationships in your own personal life.
That I mean, when you first fall in love, this
other person is so wonderful, give my life to her.
But then as the relationship matures, you begin to see
(28:44):
and I'm okay, we're guys, so I'm picking on the
gals as the relationshipship, the excuse me as the relationship,
I need to get a glass of water, hold book,
no worries. As the relationship matures, we begin to see
(29:09):
its limitations. And a mature relationship is a complex relationship
that you haven't simply devoted your entire life to the relationship,
but rather you are invested in it. You're kind of
making connections and building something to live with. And I
(29:34):
would say, we need a let me put this as
clearly as problem. We need a mature relationship with technology,
just as we need a mature relationship with our families.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, and now here comes Alan Ai, right, and again
again harken back to the movie Her right, where Joaquin
Phoenix had a fair with an operating system right, voiced
by Scarlett Johanson. And now it seems like, you know,
we're so many of us are falling in love with AI.
It seems like we want a lot of companions, we
(30:12):
just don't want them to be human. Right.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Well, I okay, I would like to I'd like to
say that AI is artificial in ignorance, that nothing is
freer than the human imagination. Many philosophers have said that
the human imagination is more explorative, more wide ranging than
(30:38):
a machine. And by putting our thoughts in a box
in a machine, we're limiting what we can think. That's
why I call it artificial ignorance. But for certain purposes
it may be satisfying, but for mature human relationships it
(31:03):
is not.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So The last thing I want to ask you is
that you know, Carrie Swisher came out with a book
called burn Book, a tech love story. She's a tech journalist.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
Has that really got her book? I'm staring at it
right now, and.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
So how does that relate to what we're talking about here? Uh?
Speaker 6 (31:24):
Okay, I've read it, but I read it, but it's
a few years ago. Let me give me a second,
let me pull it off my show.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Sure. Yeah, a lot of us follow Carrie Swisher and
really enjoyed that book.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
Okay, I've got it in my hands. Her subtitle is
a tech love story, okay, And like all of stories, uh,
the it has both positives and negatives. Okay, okay, it
gets me for better. On the blurb on the back cover,
(32:15):
the first blurb comes by Elon comes from Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Which is really quite prophetic, now.
Speaker 6 (32:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, uh and kind of Elon Elon
Musk and the Musketeers or the Muskrats are kind of
illustrative of where we're going, okay, as a society. And
(32:47):
there's an interesting study waiting to be made about how
other societies, European societies are or are not captivated by
the US grats.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
No, it's very interesting because I was reading articles today
about how we're really turning into technocracy, right, that's really
what Muscus trying to turn us into. We have aggiations,
which is a few minutes left. What do you with
all we've talked about a lot of the issues around this,
What do you think is a solution? Where should we
be going? What's a more healthy place to.
Speaker 6 (33:20):
Go building relationships, building face to face, multi stranded convivial
relationships with neighbors, with family, with friends, with colleagues, but
not with thoughts.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
And hopefully that's not a lost are Alan? Thank you
so much for beyond the show? Where can people catch
up with you?
Speaker 6 (33:47):
My email address is A dot B A T. T.
E Au at Wayne dot edu.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Alan, thanks so much, and I want to thank everyone
for joining this week's radio show, especially our incredible st
our booking producer Sarah Schaffron, our audio editor Ethan Moltz,
our marketing manager Courtney Gilcrest. If you are serious about
me more successful in twenty twenty four, give me a call.
Even if it's twenty twenty five, you should think about
being more successful. My private line is seven seven three
eight three seven eight two five zero or email me
(34:18):
at Barry at moltz dot com. Remember, love everyone, trust
a few, and pal your own canoe. Have a profitable
and passionate week.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
If you can find Barrymoltz on the web at Barrymoltz
dot com, or more episodes of Small Business Radio at
small Business radioshow dot com
Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's
exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable.
Small Business Radio is now on the air with your host,
Barry Maltz.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well thanks for joining this week's radio show. Remember this
is the final word in small business for those keeping track,
This is now show number eight twenty eight. Well. Eve
Magazine calls my next guest the world's number one small
business Guru, the entrepreneur and small business thought leader who
has impacted the lives of millions of small businesses and
(00:39):
owners over the last forty years. Michael E. Gerber is
a celebrated entrepreneur, author, and business coach, renown of course
for his groundbreaking book The Emath Why Most Businesses Don't
Work And What Do about Them. With a career spanning
several decades, he has transformed the way small business operates
by emphasizing the importance effective systems and strategic planning. Michael,
(01:02):
welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Thank you, Barry. It's been a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It's been a long time. So you came out with
the e myth in nineteen eighty eight. Where'd you come
up with the idea? That people should work on their business,
not just in their business.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yes, absolutely, and I did that. And I learned that
by a meeting with small business owners and discovering how
they were consumed by doing it, doing it, doing it, busy, busy, busy.
But they were consumed with the wrong thing. They were
working in their business, not on their business. They weren't
creating a business that works. They were creating a job
(01:37):
for themselves.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
And so this is so common among small business owners.
They've really just created job for themselves. But it's so hard, Michael,
for people to transition to work on their business. What's
the first step to do that? The step outside yourself
from the rat race every single day of just doing
it all yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Well, the first step, Barry, is to read the book
Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work. I just heard from
my publisher that The e Myth Revisited is the fifth
five most successful business book ever published.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, congratulations, and you're you're moving up fast than the Bible, right.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yes, next to the Bible, you got it, the Bible
for business owners right right.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So what's the first step to people to make that transition?
Read the book? And what's the first step to work
on your business that in your business that you think
is most beneficial.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
The first step is to understand why it's so important
that being consumed by what I call doing it, doing it,
doing it, busy, busy, busy, busy doesn't.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Get you anywhere.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
All it gets you is to the next thing you
got to do, and the next thing you got to do,
and the next thing you got to do.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
But there is no future in it.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
In fact, if you go to the statistics, the SBA
will tell you that this year twenty twenty five, there'll
be roughly four point seven million new startups, new comries,
and within the tenth year from today, ninety eight percent
(03:20):
of them will be out of business. Get that, Yeah,
ninety eight percent of them will have failed.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So that's not just a fact, it's a tragedy. And
you got to ask the question why is that?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
And the answers you get the stereotypical answers you did.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
They didn't have enough money, they didn't have.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
A competitive difference, and didn't know how to manage all
the reasons people will tell you, but none of them
mean anything. While all of them are true, none of
them will make the difference. The only thing that will
make the difference is awakening the true entrepreneur within them,
(04:03):
because none of them are truly entrepreneurs. They're what I
call technicians, separate from an entrepreneurial seizure.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
So, Michael, how do you figure entrepreneurship is right?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
How do you figure out because I don't believe that
everyone is meant to run a business, how do you
figure out if you can be an entrepreneur versus you're
just a technician that should help someone operate a business.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Well, let me suggest that this is this is terribly
an egocentric in a way, but if you'll read Awakening
the Entrepreneur within, you'll come face to face with.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
What an entrepreneur actually is.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
And an entrepreneur is actually eight different discrete personalities, and
I define them as the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller,
the leader, the designer, the builder, the launcher, the grower.
The dreamer has a dream, The thinker has a vision.
The storyteller has a purpose. The leader has a mission.
(05:08):
The designer has a client fulfillment system. The builder has
a practice, which is in fact your franchise prototype or
what I call your three legged stool, lead generation, lead conversion,
client fulfillment, the three absolutely crucial systems that live at
the heart of anything you're going to create that you
(05:31):
might call a business. And once you design your practice,
lead generation, lead conversion, client fulfillment, the next step is
creating your business.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So the question is then, what is a business? A
business is.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Nothing other than up to seven turn key practices plus
the turnkey management system. And the next step, and the
final step to create a great growing company is your enterprise.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
What's an enterprise?
Speaker 4 (06:03):
An enterprise is nothing other than up to seven turnkey businesses.
Get it, forty nine turnkey practices plus a turnkey leadership system.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So then the menu, you get the model, and it's
a model.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
It's a prototype, Barry a prototypically certain to enable you
to see what's missing in what you're doing today and
what is missing and what.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
You're doing today is everything I just talked about.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So can an entrepreneur Michael really be all these things?
Or they have to find they have to figure out
which ones they are and then find.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
If they all those things, it ain't gonna work.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It ain't gonna work, okay.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
And that's the way to decide. Am I one or
aren't I?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
What do you think the biggest thing that people get
wrong about the email, what do they misinterpret?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Well, the biggest thing that they get off on and
the biggest thing that stands in the way of them
truly getting it is that they're technicians. The chiropractor is
the chiropractor. The attorney is an attorney. The landscape designer
is a landscape design They're caught up in the tactical
(07:21):
work of what they do. They're consumed by the tactical
work of what they do. They can't see anywhere beyond the.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Tactical work that they do.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
And until they can see beyond the tactical work they do,
until they can rise above the tactical work they do
so they can see it from above separate themselves from it,
they'll never be able to do what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Michael, what do you think what's a commonly held belief
about business success that you disagree with? Because one of
the things I always disagree with is you know, you've
got to follow your dream. I don't think that's a
formula for success necessarily.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Well, the problem is most people don't have one. So
you say you got to follow your dream, I just said,
the dream is the very first thing, what's the dream. Well,
my dream in nineteen seventy seven when I started this
journey was to transform the state of small business worldwide.
That was my dream. The question then is what's my vision.
(08:30):
My vision was to invent the McDonald's of small business
development services? What in the hell did I mean by that?
But we'd have to talk about what in the hell
we mean by that.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Because that's crucial as a vision.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
The vision is visual, emotional, functional, and financial. What's the
next step? The next step is my purpose? What's my purpose?
That's the storyteller's role. And at the heart of all
this story first the dream, second division, third, the story
(09:05):
for the mission, the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
You get it.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I get it. And you talk so many times, Michael
about that people have to set up these you champion systems,
and I believe that somewhere along the line, business should
be able to run on a daily basis without the
entrepreneur or the founder. But they can't separate themselves their
identity from the business, so they stay involved in every
single task.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
What do you think, of course, and that's what we've
been talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well, tell me more about that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
In other words, if they're stuck in what I call
doing it, doing it, doing it, they're never going to
grow beyond doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it.
And you can immediately say if the chiropractor is doing it,
doing it, doing it, doing it, and if they're practiced,
depends upon them being.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The or to do it, do it, do it. It
ain't going to go anywhere. It's not going to grow.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
And until they can replicate themselves, they can't grow beyond.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Doing it, doing it, doing it.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
I love that the majority of small companies startups will
never get beyond just that a job.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
For the person who started it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One of the things that I've always seen, other.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Than a job for the person who started it, it
ain't going to go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Where it goes instead is it fails.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I think one of the problems is that they can't
get beyond No one can do it as good as me.
Therefore I have to do everything.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
How do you that the other way of simply saying
that they're stuck in the technician's role because they don't
know how to do it any differently than that can
be until they learn how to do it differently than.
That barrier it's not going to change.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
What usually propels people to make a change because I
find I mean, I wrote a whole book on change.
I find that people have a hard time making any
kind of change. And the only change, Yeah, that's it,
that's it, exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Fear exhaustion coming face to face with the reality of
where they are. Absolutely and until they come face to
face with the reality of where they are, nothing's going
to change.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
That.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I find that again, fear obviously is the biggest motivator.
What about a six What about an entrepreneur that's very,
very small, a solopreneur and just wants to have like
a craft business or a hobby. Is that okay?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Anything's okay, Barry, But understand, there is no such thing
as a solopreneur. That's just somebody who made up that
term so they could sell what they do to solopreneurs.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's so true.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
My such thing is a solopreneur. An entrepreneur doesn't do solo.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Right, you can't really do it yourself. What if you
could challenge one of the assumption held by like the
startup culture, right like Silicon Valley. What would that be?
What's something they believe that in your experience just asn't true.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Arry, I just celebrated my eighty eighth.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Birth amazing, congratulations.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I'm going on my eighty ninth year. None of it's.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
True, So I'm fond of saying it's all bullshit, and
until we get beyond that, nothing's going to change. What
I've shared with you just now is the greatest secret
on the planet. In short, once one gets what I
(12:45):
just shared with you, well one will understand why I'm
ninety eight percent of all businesses go out of business
literally not just making that up, literally go out of business.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Think about that.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, I keep thinking that. One of my favorite things
that got it wrong. They get wrong is that they
just think they can just keep getting funding, keep getting funding,
keep getting funding. And I think that actually, sometimes having
too much money in a business makes you stupid, right,
that they just rely on that, and that's what's wrong
about it. That you don't have to make a profit.
And I think that's just wrong. And there are some
(13:22):
examples of that that companies succeed, but that's not you.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
What is the biggest mistake that you made early in
your career that no one really guess by reading your books?
What did you go through.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Well, the biggest mistake I made was I didn't realize
how little interested I was in managing people, in managing it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It took me ten years to learn, Michael.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Business bores me. What doesn't bore me is creating. So
in reality, I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm a creator. I'm
closer to Walt Disney than I am to Steve Jobs.
And the similarity between us and I may it sound
(14:16):
like a terribly egoistic thing to say, the similarity between
us is I love to create, but I don't love
to operate a company.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
So does the There's a lot of creators out there.
So does the creator need a business partner that actually
is the business entrepreneur?
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I'm sorry, does.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
The creator actually need a partner that's the business entrepreneur
for the be successful?
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Well, understand that the creator is only one part of
the entrepreneurial persona. So if we go back to what
I originally spoke about, the dreamer of the thinker, the
story deel, the creator lives within each and every one
of those, but without each and every one of those,
(15:04):
you're not going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
So first, the dream second division, you.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Follow me, it's a process, and the process it followed religiously, and.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Religiously is the key word.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
It followed religiously will lead the prospective entrepreneur toward an
evolution beyond what they would normally expect themselves to be
able to do, and that evolution is absolutely exquisite.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You know, if this has been so hard for entrepreneurs
to work on the business rather than in the business,
why do you think it was so successful? It really
hit hard saying this is really the key about business?
Why do you think so many people relate to it?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I'm sorry, say it again, Barry, Why do.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You think so many people relate to working in the business, sorry,
on the business, rather than in the business. If it's
so hard to.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Do exactly, it's so hard to do, especially so hard
to do because they're inclined not to do that. They're
mostly inclined to do what I just described, doing.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
It, doing it, doing it, doing it, busy, busy, busy, busy.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
But what if it's so hard, why do you think
people relate to it so much? Because I think when
anybody hears that, they go, ah, that's it. That's how
I get off the rat race, you know, that's the
fascinating part to.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Me, that's what they say, but then they don't do it.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Agreed, Agreed, it's so interesting, Michael. I would tell you
that every single week when I talk to entrepreneurs, someone
always says your phrase, I got to work on the business,
not in the business. Every single week I hear that.
It's just really amazing the impact. Is that really what
your legacy is or what would you like your legacy
to be?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Of course that's where it came from my work.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
But understand, rather than saying every time I talk to entrepreneurs,
say instead every time I talk to a founder or
an operator, every time I talk to an owner, don't
call them an entrepreneur so readily because you don't know
that they are. But an interesting conversation that you might
(17:16):
have is to find out if they are. And what
you're going to find out is the vast majority of
them aren't.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree with that, Michael.
I can't believe you're in an eightiath year. Where can
people catch up with or eighty ninth You're almost where
can people catch up with you?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Well, they can go to Michael at Michael Egerber dot com.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Michael Thanks so much for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And it's always say to everybody, join me in the
dreaming room. And that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
That's a whole other conversation. Michael, thanks for joining us.
This is the Small Business Radio Show. We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Thinking of starting your own business. Get on board for
a crazy ride. Be the first person to tweet Berry
at Barry Moltz and get a free copy of his book,
Need to Be a Little Crazy, The Truth about starting
and growing your own business. You will need the company.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Stick around to get your small business unstuck. More of
Small Business Radio with Barry moles.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You know I've always wondered why do advances in technology
many times disappoint us. My next guest is Alan Botteau.
He's a cultural anthropologist, professor of Wayne State University's Department Anthropology,
and former director of Universities Institute for Information Technology and Culture.
He's the author of the Anthropology of Aviation and Flight Safety,
(18:39):
The Anthropological Approaches the Culture Aviation and Flight Safety, numerous
other books, including his new book called Tools, Totems and Totalities. Alan,
Welcome to the show. Thank you so First describe what
the title of the book.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Means, Okay, we think of technology as something useful, and
certainly it is a tool that is useful, but it
has two other faces that really we should be critiquing.
First of all, it's tootemic, in other words, we worship it.
(19:20):
And second it's totality. It defines our lives. And this
is very much a modern invention. Okay, the concept of
technology really has been around only about a couple hundred years.
And before that humans use tools, but we were not
(19:42):
kind of in the grip of our tools.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So you say something very interesting, Allan, And again, whenever
we talk about technology, I keep thinking about the iPhone, right,
because that's certainly was a significant technology advancement. You say,
you know, we worship it, right, And I think that's
really true. We live our li lies by it. That's
really true. Why do we do that.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
Well, that's a hugely interesting question, and I would say
it's partly because, and I'll focus on American society, because
American society is more in love with technology than any
other society. And American the founding event invent of American society,
(20:28):
of course, is the conquest of the Frontier. And when
John F. Kennedy was sworn in it was the new Frontier,
and many years later, as the Internet came into being,
it was called the Electronic Frontier. And the frontier is
(20:50):
a powerful symbol in American society because it's a conquest
of nature, okay, our our civilization advancing into nature. Interestingly,
the original meaning of the frontier was a boundary, okay,
But in our society, the frontier is kind of the
(21:12):
boundary of between civilization and nature, and the conquest of
nature is kind of a defining narrative for American society.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And so how does that relate to technology that we
can control or we are above society, that this is
something different, something new, something that makes us feel superior.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
Yes, we technology gives us control, okay, it's or, rather
more accurately, it's supposed to give us control over nature,
over society, over our fellow human beings. But in so
doing we kind of put us put ourselves in the
(21:57):
grip of technology. I have in the book I quote
by Ralph Emerson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, things are in the
saddle and ride bankkind okay. And we really kind of
are being written by technology.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
And why do you think that just because we want
more control.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
Well, let me okay, let me give what I think
is the perfect example of many people. And okay, I'm
an anthropologist, so I look at the grand sweep of humanity.
In the grand sweep of humanity is the advancement from
(22:40):
tribal societies to civilization. But one thing that people have
noted and tribalism is the idea that we're divided into
different tribes. And not only do I not want do
I not understand you? I don't want to understand you.
You are the other right, And supposedly, supposedly the Internet
(23:07):
has was to overcome this by connecting us around the globe.
But in fact, what's happened, and we have the statistics
to demonstrate this, is that with the rise of the
Internet over the third last thirty years, tribalism, concerns of
tribalism have increased, right, And I mean, there's hugely interesting
(23:32):
question there. Why has and why has the internet fragmented
our society?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
And why has it? Is it because whatever tribe you
belong to, whatever you believe in, you can find common
people that share the same values or whatever truth you're
looking for, you can find that truth somewhere on the Internet.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
All the above, and see the interesting thing is and
I had one more thing that the Internet is very
much kind of exploited by powth powerful interests, both government
and business. Excuse me, but with the Internet, we can
(24:19):
find members of our tribe halfway around the world. Think
about that a second. Okay, you can make connections with
people over halfway around the world. But in so doing,
your disconnecting yourself with your neighbors in a human community.
(24:41):
A human community as opposed to a tribe, okay, really
depends on face to face, trusting, conviviality, interaction with face
to face. With the Internet, you have just text messages
(25:02):
or email, and can how do you build a trusting
relationship with a text message? That's a serious question.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Plus in many cases it's alan, it's anonymous. You can
hide be heap in whatever type of thing you're not
really seeing quoteunquote a real person.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
It could even be a bot exactly correct. Yeah, And
I mean, and let me take that one step further,
that there are there's an economy economist, excuse me, an economy, uh,
the attention economy that harvests human attention uh and sells
(25:42):
it to advertisers uh. And Uh, we am paying attention
to you because I trust that you are a human being.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (25:56):
I don't. I think you're more intelligent than about But
others kind of have used the these connections, uh, these
anonymous connections to harvest attention. Okay, there's much to be
(26:19):
said about face to face communication, trusting relationships, con viviality.
We talk about this a little bit, okay, but when
we replace face to face trusting communication uh with text messages,
(26:40):
something is lost.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, definitely, the connection is lost. Alan, you mentioned at
the very beginning of the show that you know Americans
are more in love with technology than most other societies.
Why are we? Is it because our history is so young,
so we don't have thousands of years of roots. Is
it because geographic were more isolated? What do you think?
Speaker 6 (27:04):
I think it's all the above. I mean, uh, we
are a new society, thing of of the.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
There's a book a few years back, the New Nation,
the first new nation. America was the first new nation,
and our novelty is part of that. Uh. And as
I said earlier, our conquest of the frontier is part
of that. Is well, but into this void steps powerful
(27:40):
interests who have figured out how to use these technologies
to ride mankind.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
And it's interesting also you talk about in the book
that you know, many times, while we love these technologies,
were disappointed by them. I remember reading a book years
back called where is my Jet Pack?
Speaker 6 (28:03):
Right?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Where's my Flying Car? Right? And it seems to me
that there's a lot of technology forecasts that are not realized.
Some of course, are realized. You know, the portable communicator,
be on the phone, But where is my jet pack?
Where's my flying car? Why does even if we're in
love with technology, why does it so many times disappoint us?
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Okay, well, think about the relationships in your own personal life.
That I mean, when you first fall in love, this
other person is so wonderful, give my life to her.
But then as the relationship matures, you begin to see
(28:44):
and I'm okay, we're guys, so I'm picking on the
gals as the relationshipship, the excuse me as the relationship,
I need to get a glass of water, hold book,
no worries. As the relationship matures, we begin to see
(29:09):
its limitations. And a mature relationship is a complex relationship
that you haven't simply devoted your entire life to the relationship,
but rather you are invested in it. You're kind of
making connections and building something to live with. And I
(29:34):
would say, we need a let me put this as
clearly as problem. We need a mature relationship with technology,
just as we need a mature relationship with our families.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, and now here comes Alan Ai, right, and again
again harken back to the movie Her right, where Joaquin
Phoenix had a fair with an operating system right, voiced
by Scarlett Johanson. And now it seems like, you know,
we're so many of us are falling in love with AI.
It seems like we want a lot of companions, we
(30:12):
just don't want them to be human. Right.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Well, I okay, I would like to I'd like to
say that AI is artificial in ignorance, that nothing is
freer than the human imagination. Many philosophers have said that
the human imagination is more explorative, more wide ranging than
(30:38):
a machine. And by putting our thoughts in a box
in a machine, we're limiting what we can think. That's
why I call it artificial ignorance. But for certain purposes
it may be satisfying, but for mature human relationships it
(31:03):
is not.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So The last thing I want to ask you is
that you know, Carrie Swisher came out with a book
called burn Book, a tech love story. She's a tech journalist.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
Has that really got her book? I'm staring at it
right now, and.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
So how does that relate to what we're talking about here? Uh?
Speaker 6 (31:24):
Okay, I've read it, but I read it, but it's
a few years ago. Let me give me a second,
let me pull it off my show.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Sure. Yeah, a lot of us follow Carrie Swisher and
really enjoyed that book.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
Okay, I've got it in my hands. Her subtitle is
a tech love story, okay, And like all of stories, uh,
the it has both positives and negatives. Okay, okay, it
gets me for better. On the blurb on the back cover,
(32:15):
the first blurb comes by Elon comes from Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Which is really quite prophetic, now.
Speaker 6 (32:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, uh and kind of Elon Elon
Musk and the Musketeers or the Muskrats are kind of
illustrative of where we're going, okay, as a society. And
(32:47):
there's an interesting study waiting to be made about how
other societies, European societies are or are not captivated by
the US grats.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
No, it's very interesting because I was reading articles today
about how we're really turning into technocracy, right, that's really
what Muscus trying to turn us into. We have aggiations,
which is a few minutes left. What do you with
all we've talked about a lot of the issues around this,
What do you think is a solution? Where should we
be going? What's a more healthy place to.
Speaker 6 (33:20):
Go building relationships, building face to face, multi stranded convivial
relationships with neighbors, with family, with friends, with colleagues, but
not with thoughts.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
And hopefully that's not a lost are Alan? Thank you
so much for beyond the show? Where can people catch
up with you?
Speaker 6 (33:47):
My email address is A dot B A T. T.
E Au at Wayne dot edu.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Alan, thanks so much, and I want to thank everyone
for joining this week's radio show, especially our incredible st
our booking producer Sarah Schaffron, our audio editor Ethan Moltz,
our marketing manager Courtney Gilcrest. If you are serious about
me more successful in twenty twenty four, give me a call.
Even if it's twenty twenty five, you should think about
being more successful. My private line is seven seven three
eight three seven eight two five zero or email me
(34:18):
at Barry at moltz dot com. Remember, love everyone, trust
a few, and pal your own canoe. Have a profitable
and passionate week.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
If you can find Barrymoltz on the web at Barrymoltz
dot com, or more episodes of Small Business Radio at
small Business radioshow dot com
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