September 14, 2025 • 40 mins
Segment 1 with Amy Peterson and Rebel Nell.
To help close the gap in funding and support for women-owned small businesses, Block Advisors by H&R Block created the Fund Her Future small business grant program. The program will award five women-owned small businesses a combined total of $100,000 in funding and access to a year of small business services from Block Advisors.
Today we talk with the grand prize winner Amy Peterson, founder of Rebel Nell, launched the company in 2013 to fuse her passion for empowering women with a deep love for Detroit’s vibrant street art. Rebel Nell transforms fallen graffiti into bold, one-of-a-kind jewelry, handcrafted by women overcoming barriers such as homelessness, seeking asylum, or living with disabilities. Latasha Randle is a Strategy & Small Business Program Manager at Block Advisors by H&R Block. In this role, she develops, implements, and executes small business strategy and initiatives that promote small business growth across tax, bookkeeping, and payroll. She is also a small business owner herself.
Segment 2 with Don Constante.
What really goes on behind the scenes of some of the biggest sporting events in the world and what can you learn about organizing the best experiences for your customers.
Don Costante is a distinguished sports and event presentation expert with more than thirty years of experience transforming live events into immersive, fan-centered experiences. Throughout his career, he has directed, produced, and managed more than 2,500 live events, including three NBA Finals, two World Series, and thirteen NBA All-Star Jam Session Center Courts. His work spans major organizations across the NBA, MLB, WNBA, and NASCAR, where he has consistently elevated the quality and impact of event presentations.
He has a new book called "Beyond the Scoreboard: The Ultimate Guide to Sports Event Presentation".
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-small-business-radio-show--3306444/support.
Listen to all the episodes of The Small Business Radio Show at www.barrymoltz.com
To help close the gap in funding and support for women-owned small businesses, Block Advisors by H&R Block created the Fund Her Future small business grant program. The program will award five women-owned small businesses a combined total of $100,000 in funding and access to a year of small business services from Block Advisors.
Today we talk with the grand prize winner Amy Peterson, founder of Rebel Nell, launched the company in 2013 to fuse her passion for empowering women with a deep love for Detroit’s vibrant street art. Rebel Nell transforms fallen graffiti into bold, one-of-a-kind jewelry, handcrafted by women overcoming barriers such as homelessness, seeking asylum, or living with disabilities. Latasha Randle is a Strategy & Small Business Program Manager at Block Advisors by H&R Block. In this role, she develops, implements, and executes small business strategy and initiatives that promote small business growth across tax, bookkeeping, and payroll. She is also a small business owner herself.
Segment 2 with Don Constante.
What really goes on behind the scenes of some of the biggest sporting events in the world and what can you learn about organizing the best experiences for your customers.
Don Costante is a distinguished sports and event presentation expert with more than thirty years of experience transforming live events into immersive, fan-centered experiences. Throughout his career, he has directed, produced, and managed more than 2,500 live events, including three NBA Finals, two World Series, and thirteen NBA All-Star Jam Session Center Courts. His work spans major organizations across the NBA, MLB, WNBA, and NASCAR, where he has consistently elevated the quality and impact of event presentations.
He has a new book called "Beyond the Scoreboard: The Ultimate Guide to Sports Event Presentation".
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-small-business-radio-show--3306444/support.
Listen to all the episodes of The Small Business Radio Show at www.barrymoltz.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's
exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable.
Small Business Radio is now on the air with your host,
Barry Moultz.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, thanks for joining this week's radio show. Remember this
is the final word in small business. For those keeping track,
this is show number eight hundred and forty eight.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
To help close the gap.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
In funding and support foreman owned small businesses, Block Advisors
by H and R. Block created the fund Her Future
Small Business Grant program. The program awards five women own
small businesses a combined the one hundred thousand dollars in
funding and access to a year of small business services
from Block Advisors. Today, we're going to talk to the
grand prize winner. Amy Peterson is the founder of Rebelnell.
(00:54):
She launched the company in twenty thirteen to fuse her
passion for empowering women with a deep love for Detroit
and vibrant street art. Rebel Nell transforms falling graffiti into bold,
one of a kind jewelry. We're also joined by Natasha Randalls.
She's a strategy and small Business program manager at Block Advisors.
In a role she develops implements and executes small business strategies.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Both of you, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Thank you for having us, Thanks for having us.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Good to be here, great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So Latasha talk about first of all, why did.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
H and R.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Block think it important to target this area of women founders.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
You know, when you think about it, women small business
owners are just growing at an amazing rate, and small
businesses are the backzone of our economy. But what we
often find is that while women are forming these businesses
at twice the rate of their male counterparts, they're also
less likely to receive funding for their business. So as
(01:56):
a result, there's just a huge gap and a need
to help empower those businesses, to educate them and also
help them with funding that will help them, whether it's
scaling their business, hiring their first employee, all of those
types of things. But it's really just about addressing the
funding and support gaps for our women own small business owners.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
You know, it's interesting because in your twenty twenty four
stay of the Women's Small Business Report, you said that
forty two percent women business owners apply for a business
bank loan we're approved, and nearly ninety percent WIM report
they were lying personal finds and credit cards.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
How does that compared to men? Is it significantly lower?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
I don't have the exact rates for men, but it's
definitely significantly lower than men when they apply for funding.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
And when why is that?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
I think if we have the answer to that, we've
been able to solve some of the worldside. Well, I mean,
I think when you think about it, you know, oftentimes
women have traditionally not received the same thing that our
male counterparts have. Rather, that's because they thought, you know,
we sometimes we learn things at a different pace. We
(03:06):
come into being and understanding what's going on in business
at a different pace. We don't always have the same
resources available to us. So by the time we really
launch these businesses and realize what we need, we're already
two or three steps behind.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the reasons is,
and again this is me saying this, I think women
probably come into the workplace with a little less experience
business experience. And also I think a lot of decisions
that are being made by the bank are really by men,
and people usually lend to people that look like them. Unfortunately,
So you created this future grant program, tell us about it.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Yeah, So it's in its second year, and like I said, again,
it was really just developed to address that funding and
support gap for women all businesses. One of the things
we realized though, really quickly, is that just putting funds
in someone's hands does not always solve the problems. So
we thought it was really important that in addition to
providing funding, that we pair that with the right services.
(04:04):
So they would be paired with a block advisor's experts,
they'd have a tax advisor, they have someone who can
help them not only stringlining cash flown machromizing tax deductions,
but also a sounding for it that they could sit
before and say, hey, I'm thinking of expanding, I'm going
to have to hire my first employee, what does compliance
look like for me? Or even helping them understand is
(04:26):
this person that I'm going to bring on board? Are
they a contractor or should they be an employee? Those
are all decisions that they're trying to make and we're
here to help them with that. So again, just being
able to pair them with the financial advantage as well
as the services and knowledge is kind of a win
win because they're going to have access to bookkeeping, payrolls,
(04:47):
small business consultations throughout the years. They need them business
formation services because they may not even have their business
forms properly. So those are some of the things that
are important to us.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I mean we definitely talked to on the show
Men many times. Having the right services, having the right
mentors tap along the way really really go a long
way for small business owners. So you got over eight
thousand applicants, thirty percent increase over last year, and you
picked Amy Pearson from Rebel Nell.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Why was that?
Speaker 5 (05:18):
You know, Here's what I like to share. As we
went through the application and the finalist energies, there was
really a coming thread across all of those women, and
one of those things were that they were here to
serve and uplift their community. And so when we came
across Ammy Peterson, she invited that the others. When you
think about that, the women that she's employing for her
(05:41):
workforce development program, people overcoming barriers like homelessness, speaking asylum,
or just living with disabilities. That's powerful. She's making a difference,
not just producing a product. And so when we thought
about who would be best to represent that kind of
grand prize or the fifty thousand dollars recipient. We wanted
to make sure it was someone that not just had
(06:02):
a good story to tell, but I also had a
plan for how she could use the fund, How would
be it, what would be the benefit to her if
she was coupled with these services for a year, what
different makes in her gamp list and so on her.
It was to really articulate that and show us how
it would benefit her in the future. Coupled with our
(06:23):
mission to begin with when we started to fund her
future brand just makes her the right winner this year.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So Emmy, let's bring into the show. So you got
the call and who called you? And what was your
first thought?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Well, the team called me, and it was it was
really actually quite intimidating because they said that they wanted
to have yet another like another call to ask me
some questions about my use for the grants. And I
was up all night like kind of really thinking through
(06:56):
answers and you know, making sure that they were going
to be solid in preparation for this call. And I
get on the call and they're like, just kidding, we
want to go up you want? And I mean it
was it was so overwhelming and surprise and also such
(07:18):
a so re energized by this and my gratitude beyond
belief to get this opportunity.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I'm excited to see what we do with it.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
So so let's go back. Just what is rebel Nell.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You talk about using use some graffiti that's fallen from
the buildings.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
What's really unique about Rebel Nell and also makes it
in many ways an extra challenging business is we're we're
fully committed to our social impact and sustainability impact. We
are a true, verified social enterprise. Our primary mission is
to provide employment for women who are transitioning out of
shelter living. In addition to that, we repurpose meaningful material.
(08:04):
So I started the company in twenty thirteen repurposing graffiti
that had fallen off the walls in Detroit. You know,
puts that in kind of perspective of Detroit was also
in the midst of a bankruptcy. There was a lot
of negative talk about the city. And here all I
saw was just this incredible city that had so much
culture and history and people, and how could that be
(08:26):
reflected in the product that we were selling in order
to provide the employment for the women. So it started
collecting graffiti that had fallen off the walls. We don't
touch it till it actually is on the ground and
we pick it up before it goes into the earth.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
And that has seen pevoted.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
It's still you know, what we do is repurposing graffiti,
but now we do so much more. We repurpose other
meaningful material. So if they're tearing down a building or
a sports arena, we will often get the call to
work on a collaboration to help repurpose that material.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
We've kind a great collaboration right now with the Detroit
Tigers where when they repurpose.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
The dugouts of the vinyl that comes off the dugout,
we turn that into a collection. And so that's I
think what makes us really special is that each piece
is one of a kind, not only because of the
memory that we're preserving the nature of the material, but
also the woman who makes it in her journey as well.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
You know, it's interesting because we actually purchased in Valprais
o Chili, they put graffita in all the buildings. It's
beautiful graffiti. It's not like what you think about hurting
the building. But that falls off and we actually bought
a piece of all these crumbling piece folks from an
artist organization of this similar thing in Valpraiso, Chili. So
I think it's a wonderful thing you're doing. How did
(09:44):
you get your idea to start this type of thing?
Where did your interest lie? I?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Actually, you know, I think so many small business owners
in many ways circumstances led them to start a business.
And my dream always was to be the first female
general manager of a Major League Baseball team.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That's what I.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Wanted to do. I set out well to be fair.
I really wanted to work for the Pirates, that was
my team growing up. But I got the opportunity to
come to Detroit, and I spent eleven years working for
the Tigers organization and enjoyed the opportunity. And I was
(10:26):
living next door to a shelter at the time, And
I do think that there are still a lot of
challenges within the industry.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Itself with promoting and supporting women with.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Who wanted to be on the baseball development side. And
so living next door to the shelter, would come home
from the games and got to know the women and
hear their stories. This same way of an opportunity for
me to thank the city that had been so great
at giving me an opportunity to pursue my dream. That
(10:58):
that's how rebels Well started. And it was a passion
project for many years, and it was something that all
I could do was you breathe and sleep rebel Nell
and decided ultimately to take the leap of faith and
go run it full time. And that's really how rebel
Nel came to be almost twelve years ago.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
No, I think it's such an important mission because, especially
with this current federal administration the president, these people are
being left behind. For folks that are aren't really familiar
with women who are in shelters. What's the challenge of
transitioning into being able to support themselves and having jobs.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I think so much one of the things that actually
brought I knew the system was meant to keep.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
Them in it.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I knew how challenging the system was, but even still,
I didn't realize how bad it was until I started
this work. And the there's so many it's often one
challenging life situation or one degree that separates us all
(12:05):
from being in a similar situation. And I think that
the world had more compassion for women who are going
through these challenges or frankly anybody. We live in a
more compassionate and supportive society, and.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
These are not compassionate times, so it's even more needed
more not.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
They're even more challenging, and I feel, to me, this
is something that we need even more. I think the
benefit of social enterprises is tremendous and just getting launching,
and so that's why I'm just even more grateful to
H and R for this opportunity to shine a light
on a business that has such a mission behind it
(12:47):
as well. I think speaks volumes about them as who
they are as an organization and what they truly believe in.
But to your original question, you know, many of these
women are just coming from just life situation, many least
challenging situations, in search of a better opportunity and only
for themselves or for their families, even if this meant
going back into shelter living and starting from scratch. And
(13:10):
he just didn't have a support system, which I feel
very blessed in my life to have a strong support
system to catch me in times when maybe I would
have fallen. If you don't have that, it's very easy
to fall into the system that keeps you in it.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, there's a very popular movie out there called Made,
and I think you see some of that firsthand.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I don't know if that's real the life or not.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It's very very accurate. I thought that was so well done.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean, the last question I want to ask you is,
of course we all want to know what are you
to do with the money?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
So what's really exciting? As we've grown over the years,
we've found that another opportunity for us is to bring
this experience of preserving memories that we currently do in
our manufacturing place to bring it to people in large
scale events. We can now we're going to build out
(14:03):
like a mobile unit that we'll be able to pop
up at large scale events, for example, to bring up
the Tigers again, we were there this past weekend. We're
fans for own pin or item out of the America
Park dugout. So it's really bringing that experiential component. We
(14:23):
did sound My Southwest this year as an opportunity, and
now we're getting the eye of larger organizations, larger, larger
sporting venues to bring this experience to life when so
many people are looking for those connection opportunities.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And Natasha, I just want to thank block Advisor for
doing this. I'm hoping you're going to continue doing this
next year and you can get more deserving applicants.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Thank you so much for bringing it to the public
and making people aware of what we're doing. We are
definitely looking to more ways to continue to help our
women owned businesses.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Latasha am thanks so much for joining us on this episode.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
There's a small business radio show. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
My work with thousands of small business owners over the
last twenty years inspired me to write my next book
on how to make changes.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Well, that's not exactly true.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
More accurately, my frustration and the resulting challenges working with
small business owners forced me to write this new book.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Let me explain.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I'm often asked by companies and small business owners that
I don't know to help them. Typically, they're feeling stuck
by a problem and their companies can't move forward. After
analyze the situation, we mutually decide on a go forward strategy.
I help them assemble a detailed plan to make any
changes and the critical sess factors and actions that need
to be completed. They agree that taking these actions will
(15:50):
help them, solve their issue for their company and make
them more money, and then almost nothing happens. Unfortunately, most
small business owners implement a few easy steps but never
take the critical or difficult ones that could make a difference.
This has long frustrated me, since we worked really hard
(16:11):
putting together this plan, and at the beginning we were
both excited about the result. I wrote my new book,
Change Masters, How to Actually Make the changes you already
know you need to make to figure out why small
business owners do not make the changes or take the
actions that they know will help.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Them reach their goals.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Where is the gap between sincere intent to make these
changes and the actions to actually do it? What holds
most people back and keeps them stuck on the same
path over and over again. Why are they still so
comfortable and not making these changes and staying on a
path that clearly doesn't work for them? One thing is
(16:51):
it's not adding to their happiness, and it's not adding
to their feelings success. What steps do they need to
take to slowly break free and start to make those
changes today that will help them in the long run.
In my new book, I reveal much of the psychological
research around why change is just so hard for so
many people, and real life strategies that every small business
(17:12):
owner can employ right now to make the changes they
need to make in their companies to grow. So get
my new book, Change Masters. Remember I'm not trying to
convince you to make a change, but rather help you
make the changes you already know you need to take.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Stick around to get your small business unstuck. More of
Small Business Radio with Barry Moles.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So what really goes on behind the scenes of some
of the largest sporting events in the world and what
can we learn about organizing the best experiences for your customers.
Don Costanti is a distinguished sports and event presentation expert
more than thirty years of experience throughout his career as
directive producer and manage more than twenty five hundred live events,
including NBA Finals, World Series and thirteen NBA All Star
(18:03):
Jam Session Center courts. His work spans major corporations major
organizations like the NBA, MLBWNBA and NASCAR, where it's consistently
elevated the quality impact of event presentations. He's got a
new book outs called Beyond the Scoreboard, The Ultimate Guide
to Sports Event Presentations.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Don Welcome to the show.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Thank you, I appreciate being here.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
So how'd you get involved in this kind of area?
Speaker 6 (18:28):
You know, lucky, I guess I went. I was really
rooted in marketing and sponsor sponsorship, corporate sponsorship, but I
got the opportunity with the San Antonio Spurs to really
focus in on the event presentation. I started my career
at NC State in marketing. That's where I found my career,
But I found my passion once I got to the
(18:49):
Spurs working in event presentation. That's how I found it.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So you talk about event presentation, and I think some
of us will think, well, a game is a game, right,
two teams are playing each other and there's a winner
and there's a loser, and you look at this to
something different.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
Yeah, you know, for me, I mean, there's going to
be a percentage of people that are coming for the
game itself, but there's so many other people significant others,
boyfriend's girlfriends, moms, dads, so on and so forth. They
are coming there because of their significant other. And for me,
you know, we have to create an experience that it
goes beyond you know, the game in sports, because take
(19:27):
my wife for example, she's not a sports fan. And
she has no reason or interest in attending the sport.
But if I can make that experience meaningful, engaging something
that really elevates her experience when she's there, she's going
to be more likely to want to come and have
a good time. So sports, the way I look at it,
it's about storytelling. It's about creating memorable moments, taking those
(19:51):
moments strategically aligning them in a very systematic way that
you're revealing them in an order that really enhances the
state and the stakeholders for for for sports, you know,
are the fans, and then you have the sponsors themselves
who are pouring millions of dollars into this that you
want to take care of, and then the participants themselves
(20:12):
on the court and the organization. So designing an atmosphere
that that understands what each of those journeys are, what
they're gonna what they're going to take in, and building
a game day experience around that.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You know, I keep thinking of we're season ticket holders
for the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field, and I keep
thinking about the kinds of things they do to make
an experience. Of course, my favorite distraction is playing mound
ball between andyings, does the ball end up on the mouth?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Right, because you gotta bet on that.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
But also it's the music, and it's the after the
game if they win, people taking out the flags and
you know, uh Addison getting out there.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
And waving the flag.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
When you do an event presentation, give it us an
example of what that feels.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
Like doing an event presentation. What that feels like. So,
if I'm under standing correctly, I mean it's it's very
you know, it's an extraordinary experience. I mean it's like
a lot of times listen, great game day experience, whether
it's at the Cubs or somewhere else, they don't just happen, right.
(21:13):
It's a lot of work. There's a lot of planning
that goes into it. There's a lot of logistics of storytelling,
and all of that comes together to create that type
of experience. So what it feels like is to be
able to put in the work, the planning, the execution,
the communication that all goes into how you are going
to deliver your atmosphere, your product is so important, and
(21:37):
then seeing it come to life as you're actually calling
the show and seeing how it's it's creating connections it's
building community with those that are in your your stadium,
and they're enjoying what you're presenting presenting to them. It
feels great. So the same.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Example is this the music is the stuff that happens
between the innings or we towart the time outs and
you know you're going to MBA games, there's different.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
What is it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Give us an example of something you've done where you
create the experience and what that's got.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
Yeah, so no, that's a great question. So you know
for me and my wife, I mean, it starts right
from the beginning. It's the climactic moment of the player introduction, right,
So you want to be in your seats. You want
to be there for that, the goosebump type of intro
with the lights come down, the music changes, the videos rolling.
You have entertainment resources out there that are being utilized,
(22:26):
whether it's dance teams or interactive squads, or it's mascot
creating this memorable moment that leads to this voice that
is introducing and bringing out the players, the stars of
the show in this particular case, and that is a
great moment. And then as you go it's kind of
ebbs and flows and so you get into the game
and you know, you want to be able to design
(22:49):
your experience. So you're taking people on a roller coaster.
You can't fully go on full throttle the entire time,
so it comes to a timeout and then sport it
would be like a promotion, and how all that is
designed and executed in terms of you know, signage and
you know, the execution of being implemented by the game crew,
(23:10):
and who the entertainment resources are going to be involved,
and there's just a story and the plot of the
promotion itself and how music adds such a significant element
to that to enhance it, and then the digital resources
that are available to make it cohesive. And so that's
another moment. And so then you you know, as you
move on, you got halftimes and you got you know,
(23:32):
when the team goes on a run and in the energy,
how do you handle that situation? How do you handle
it when you had something maybe that's not as exciting
plan Well, a game director has got to be able
to have the mindset to bump that and ride the energy.
And what do you do in terms of what video
and what elements and what resources can you play to
So I think that's that's a few examples.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
You know. I remember when Michael Jordan plays and we'd
be in the stadium and then of course the announces
and from the University of North Carolina, you know, Michael Jordan.
The whole place go crazy, right, the lights are down
low and they're just introducing all the people. What happens
when something goes sideways where the fans are booing, right,
the team is not performing, or you have a Kyle
(24:17):
Tucker on the Cubs where you know he had a
rough you know, two three four months, turns out because
of his thumb or whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
What do you do?
Speaker 6 (24:24):
Then, well, you know, you got to turn it up
even more, right, I mean, we designed the show with
the understanding that we have to put forth the best
design creating an experience regardless of the outcome on the
plane surface. And so in that particular case, I mean,
I worked with the Kansas City Royals. When I started
with the Royals, they were one of the worst teams
(24:46):
in the league. You know, for multiple years they averaged
about fourteen thousand fans in the beginning and when I
got there, and so they were you know, those were
fourteen very passionate fans right being there because the team's
not doing well, but what are we going to do?
And so when I got there, it was a very
stagnant kind of you know, predictable environment. So we changed
(25:07):
that and it was about, you know, trying to engage
the philosophy. The strategy has to be, like even in business,
is designing your your experience for the fans and focusing
I mentioned journey. Journey is so important and what's that
journey for them? And when they get to their seat,
how are we engaging, what's the content, what's the programming,
and so you know, in those particular cases and almost
(25:30):
when the team is struggling, it's more important to beef
up that entertainment and create that experience because the team's
not bringing it. And again it's a small percentage of
people who are there just for the game itself.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
You know, it's interesting to me because it does as
you were saying, it does start even before you get
in the stadium. I know with Bears games, you got
the whole tailgating thing going on, right, so people are
getting ready, they're anticipating the game. I don't know if
you've ever heard of the Savannah bananas Jesse Cole. Oh yeah, yes,
who's been on the show. I mean he took it
to the next level really right of entertainment, where it
wasn't just sport was entertainment. So after you produce the
(26:06):
events like the NBA Finals and World Series, are there
lessons from these sports events presentations that small business owners
can apply to creating memorable customer experiences.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
Yeah, you know what, that's that's a great question, and
absolutely I think that, you know, it's about lead with philosophy,
you know, design of philosophy that you know, like just
in sports, we were fan centric philosophy, but in business,
you know, business owners should establish that customer centric philosophy
(26:37):
that really guides every decision from pricing and service tone.
You know, customer sense authenticity and you know they value that,
and so you know, that's something I think that you
also have to think in terms of, uh, you know,
keep experiences fresh. Predictable game presentations for the fans are boring.
Predictable customer experiences for buyers is bad. Businesses need to
(27:02):
locate their promotions fresh displays for example, introduce surprises, you know,
so that customer stay excited and they come back. And
I mentioned multiple times about think about journey, you know,
not not so much moments. You know, sports are orchestrated
on the flow and keeping it seamless. Small business owners,
(27:23):
you know, they can map out their customer journey as
well from this, you know, from customers coming in discovery
to the purchase, to follow up and remove the friction points,
make every step, creating that experience that feels smooth and intentional.
Those are things that you know, business owners can also
think about. And there's a there's a bunch of other
things from designing the atmosphere and creating loyalty and maximizing resources.
(27:47):
But those are just a few that I'll point out.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
At this point, we're talking to Don Costanti, who wrote
a book called Beyond the Scoreboard, The Ultimate Guide to
Sports Event Presentation. Don, in your experience, what makes fans,
whether they're customer clients or their sports fans, what makes
them loyal? What makes them keep coming back? I mean,
I know that a winning team helps, but that's not
the only thing.
Speaker 6 (28:08):
No, no, it's not. I think you know a lot
of people are born into it in sports. I mean
I worked with Manchester City and that they are born
into that team. Whether you know that that is an
amazing experience. If you ever go overseas and go to
a football game over there, they're born into it. And
I think that, you know, we work hard here in
the United States, building through grassroots or through you know,
(28:33):
working with the younger generations to try to create an
experience and build the as fans as they come through
the stadiums or through the ballparks, and you know, by
by again designing again content specific for different demographics. And
so you can't, I guess the point I'm trying to
make here, You can't just have a cookie cutter and
(28:56):
say here's a design package that we're going to do
for all fans. You have to create for the kids.
You have to create so you're you're you're hitting them
with meaningful programming that that is appealing to them. Then
you need it for the teenagers, you need it for
you know, the young professionals, you need it for the
older generation. And it's a mix of that that comes together.
(29:17):
And I think that that that is probably something that
a lot of people sometimes don't think about and it
kind of they missed the mark on, you.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Know, one of the most fun experiences for me as
a fans when I go to cubspring training, right, because
it's so much more casual. You're sitting in a field,
You're sitting on a on a grass beyond the outfield.
The players in the outfield will talk to you during
the game, right, Yeah, right, It's just it's just a different, you.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Know, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
And I keep thinking back on just more recently, what
F one has really done to create to popularize that
sport in America where there was Drive to Survive on
Netflix and you got to know the drivers and the
paddock and the experience. And just more recently they've really
brought that exciting experience to them Erica where it's really
been ingrained in other countries for a long time.
Speaker 6 (30:04):
Yeah, you know, you know, I think anytime you can
utilize players or your your talent, you know, build connections,
build experiences. You know, we do it all the time
in sport where we bring uh, you know, people who
are attending down into an experiential type of activation, whether
(30:26):
it's high fiving the players or running out with them
or whatever it may be. Those are meaningful, you know,
you talk about you know, how do you you know,
create experiences that that's a huge experience for for for
people of all ages, and you know, even throwing. You
mentioned the pitching mount earlier. I mean, throwing a first
pitch is a huge experience for people, and so being
(30:48):
able to have a player come out and be a
part of that and catch and get a photo with them,
you know. You know, I'm a big fan of any
time that you can utilize your resources, and that goes
for you know, in professional sports, your biggest resource to
players to be a part of some of the experiences
because that's just going to elevate it and create much
(31:09):
more value.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So let's talk about using the players, because I guess
certain players you can use in a certain one you
can't because like again, you go to the Cubs, Like again,
I don't know if you know the Cubs, but like
Ian Hap right, he's doing a podcast. He's really, really great,
he's really you know, he can really talk to talk.
And then you have Kyle Tucker that just wants to
keep to himself. He's an introvert, right, I've seen him
interview at the Cubs convention. Are there certain players you
(31:30):
could approach? How did that work?
Speaker 6 (31:32):
Yeah? So you know, almost every team has what they
call media day, and so players come in and this
is early on, just before the season starts, and you're
able to, you know, get some digital content with them. Yes,
there are certain players that just don't want or have
maybe the ability or the personality that will shine through.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Which is fine. Just get a hit.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
I don't really care, right, exactly right, just make yourself
feel you know, cannected with the fans. And then there
are others that get it. There are you know, listen,
I love Tim Duncan when I was with the Spurs,
loved him. He's fantastic, but you know, he's very reserved.
He wasn't that type of player who really, you know,
I'm not into all of the fun and love, you know,
(32:16):
let's do all these fun games types of things. But
then there are other players out there that, you know,
just fall in love with it and say, listen, let
me give you some ideas. I'd love to be part
of some skits with your mascot. I'd love to do
some video. So some people vote for that, oh yeah yeah,
and even more. I mean they'll throw out ideas, you know,
and when the ideas are coming from the team, then
(32:38):
you're doing something right. And of course when you're utilizing
players and an important point here because you always want
to put them in a good light. You never want
to ruin their trust. You don't want to do something
that's going to create, you know, a negative where they
see the final product up on the screen they go, whoa,
I had no idea that's what you were going to
do and put them in the negative light. So it's
about working with them and communicating and you know, but
(33:01):
anytime you can have those types of players be a
part of something that you're doing for presentation and just
elevates it to a whole new level.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
So how do you how have used players?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
There's a lot more players around that don't speak English
or English is not their first language.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
We have a lot of you know, Japanese players on
the cubs that are big stars, but you know English
is not their first language, so they got to speak
through a translator.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (33:22):
You know?
Speaker 6 (33:22):
But that's authentic, that's organic, right, I mean, you put
them in front of a camera, you have an interpreter,
you have some fun with it. You then do your
due diligence, You do your research in terms of you know,
what's trending, what's something that you know, you can utilize
that would be fun to get to know this player
or have this player involved with and it's all part
of the authenticity to to utilize or come up with
(33:45):
some really creative ideas that really maximizes and takes advantage
of that, and that you can almost you take that
kind of what maybe some people look at as a
challenge and you kind of think differently, and suddenly now
it becomes something that is that resonates with the fans
and they love it and becomes something they talk about.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
You know, there's a there's a saying with the Cubs
when the song we sing after the game called called
uh hey, hey, what do you say the Cubs are
going to win today? Right? That's just kind of a
chant that happens. And so when Choate Minaga came to
the Cubs, he doesn't speak English, but in his first
press briefing he memorized that statement. Right, I love that,
and he said, of course in very broken English, but
(34:25):
everyone just loved it.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
Absolutely. Yeah, you're I'm talking about Yes.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
So what you talk about storytelling?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
What role do nicknames really play in the whole presentation thing?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
You know, you got cal rowling. Now is the big dumper, right,
and you had you.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Know, Javier Baiez, and who's on the Cubs we called
Almago the Magician. Are nicknames just more in more connection
to the to the.
Speaker 6 (34:50):
Storytelling, Yeah, I mean, I mean it's great. I mean
they come across organically a lot of times it's coming
obviously from the team, and you know, then it it
gravitates and connects with the fans. And when it connects
with the fans, it brings that player closer to the fans.
And so you know, assuming they like their nickname right
(35:11):
to some of them.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I mean, they used to call David Ross Grandpa, but
I guess he kind of liked it because it was
the oldest thing.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Yeah, team, I mean, you just get to know the players,
and that's all some of some of the things that
you talk about when you're in those media days that
I mentioned it, and you're talking to the players and
they'll tell you point blank, you know, I don't want
to talk about this or I don't want to be
mentioned like this, but storytelling obviously is so important. And
I think that you know, when you talk about again
(35:38):
nicknames you brought up, I mean, that's just a very
strong connection that can be utilized as a tool to
help create connection with that player with the fans.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So sometimes bad stuff happens, right, you know, player gets
divorced and there's some salacious thing around it, or a
player is you know, caught doing something illegal or hurting
somebody or something like that. How does that affect the storytelling?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (36:04):
Big time, right, I mean in those particular cases. These
are areas that you know, in different organizations handle it differently.
But you're not going to promote a player that or
or you're not gonna maybe maybe if you have content
that schedule for a game that that player is involved with,
maybe they're in some crowd punks, maybe they're in a
(36:26):
promotion as a digital element, and that player has had
negative press, you're gonna pull those elements and you're gonna
you're gonna pivot. You're gonna then move to what you
can do next. I mean, in in event presentation and
for anybody, you know, when you're presenting, whether it's meetings
or whatever, I mean, things can go wrong and you
got to understand what's the plan b here? What do
(36:48):
we do if if the mics go out? What do
we do if the video goes out? What do we
do in this case when a bad a player has
bad press. Well, in this particular case, you know, the
show goes on. We pick of it. It's transparent to
the fan base. We move forward with other content. We
don't produce just enough content that that's all the content
(37:09):
that we have the entire year, and we repeat it.
We have continual creation and content being made. So if
something does happen, we pull it. We it's plugged, we
put in something else, then we move on.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So in your experiences, every single professional sports team have
someone like you that's producing the games.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Well, you know, everybody has this role, and you know,
it's an interesting little barrier that you know a lot
of people. I mean, there isn't a course or a
class that teaches people how to produce or how to
do event presentation. You basically when you get into these roles,
you're either you know, inheriting what's already been done and
you just move forward with the status quo because that's
(37:50):
the way it is, or maybe you're coming in with
a little bit more experience because you've been somewhere else
and you're starting to make some tweaks. And so there
is a person's should be if there's not somebody that
is orchestrating and designing the event presentation and incorporating the
philosophy of the organization into it. If they're not out there,
you need to be doing it.
Speaker 7 (38:11):
And I think though, that's why this book that I've
wrote is so important and it's so needed at this point,
is because it's going to allow people to understand what
are the core principles of event presentation.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
What should we be thinking of. Oh, yeah, we're having
those pain points. Oh, this is a guy that's going
to show me exactly how I need to improve it great,
and I can customize it on top of that to
make it our own. And I think that, you know,
that's why I wrote the book Various, because you know,
there are a lot of people out There's a lot
of people that do a great job out there, without question,
but unfortunately, there are even more that are struggling in
(38:48):
this area.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Right. So, let's what I want to ask you is,
throughout your career, is there a favorite favorite player that
you worked with and said, Wow, this person's really great
for the event.
Speaker 6 (38:57):
Yeah. You know, you know, I've worked with some really
good players in the past, and some, like I said,
that were very, very creative, and I think that you know,
in the NBA, they tended to be a little bit
more engaged with what we were doing. You know, a
player like I mean, it goes back as Leak Rose,
(39:17):
you know, I don't know, I mean people remember Elik
but fantastic you know to work with, and you know,
and and and David Robinson was great to work with.
And then you know, like I said, it's and then
you go to baseball and and you know, baseball is
a lot of fun, but the players were a little
bit different when I came during that time, from the
Spurs to the Royals. You know, I was I think
I was one of maybe two that came from the
(39:39):
NBA in this role. And so baseball is a very
traditional sport, and I think that, you know, the mindset
is very traditional. And so here I come in with
m b A and fused ideas and I remember at
media day the players looking at me, going, what do
you want me to do? You know, you know, put
a headset on and and try to figure out what
this music is. And so you have learned quickly, yeah,
(40:02):
you learn quickly what doesn't work. But then you do
find players going Oh, this is brilliant. This is great,
and those were some of the players. Obviously we connected
and I'd love to work with well.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Don, I appreciate you be on the show. Where can
people catch up with you?
Speaker 6 (40:16):
Yeah, so they can find me on my website at
Kystantigroup dot com, dot co, S T A N T, E,
G R O U P dot com. I'm also on Twitter,
I'm on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn, so any of those
they can certainly reach out to me. I would love
to connect.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Don, Thanks so much for joining us. I want thank
everyone for joining this week's radio show. Remember love everyone,
trust a few, and peal your own canoe. Have a
profitable and passionate week.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You can find Barrymoltz on the web at Barrymolts dot
com or more episodes of Small Business Radio at small
buzsradioshow dot com.
Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's
exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable.
Small Business Radio is now on the air with your host,
Barry Moultz.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, thanks for joining this week's radio show. Remember this
is the final word in small business. For those keeping track,
this is show number eight hundred and forty eight.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
To help close the gap.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
In funding and support foreman owned small businesses, Block Advisors
by H and R. Block created the fund Her Future
Small Business Grant program. The program awards five women own
small businesses a combined the one hundred thousand dollars in
funding and access to a year of small business services
from Block Advisors. Today, we're going to talk to the
grand prize winner. Amy Peterson is the founder of Rebelnell.
(00:54):
She launched the company in twenty thirteen to fuse her
passion for empowering women with a deep love for Detroit
and vibrant street art. Rebel Nell transforms falling graffiti into bold,
one of a kind jewelry. We're also joined by Natasha Randalls.
She's a strategy and small Business program manager at Block Advisors.
In a role she develops implements and executes small business strategies.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Both of you, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Thank you for having us, Thanks for having us.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Good to be here, great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So Latasha talk about first of all, why did.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
H and R.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Block think it important to target this area of women founders.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
You know, when you think about it, women small business
owners are just growing at an amazing rate, and small
businesses are the backzone of our economy. But what we
often find is that while women are forming these businesses
at twice the rate of their male counterparts, they're also
less likely to receive funding for their business. So as
(01:56):
a result, there's just a huge gap and a need
to help empower those businesses, to educate them and also
help them with funding that will help them, whether it's
scaling their business, hiring their first employee, all of those
types of things. But it's really just about addressing the
funding and support gaps for our women own small business owners.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
You know, it's interesting because in your twenty twenty four
stay of the Women's Small Business Report, you said that
forty two percent women business owners apply for a business
bank loan we're approved, and nearly ninety percent WIM report
they were lying personal finds and credit cards.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
How does that compared to men? Is it significantly lower?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
I don't have the exact rates for men, but it's
definitely significantly lower than men when they apply for funding.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
And when why is that?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
I think if we have the answer to that, we've
been able to solve some of the worldside. Well, I mean,
I think when you think about it, you know, oftentimes
women have traditionally not received the same thing that our
male counterparts have. Rather, that's because they thought, you know,
we sometimes we learn things at a different pace. We
(03:06):
come into being and understanding what's going on in business
at a different pace. We don't always have the same
resources available to us. So by the time we really
launch these businesses and realize what we need, we're already
two or three steps behind.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the reasons is,
and again this is me saying this, I think women
probably come into the workplace with a little less experience
business experience. And also I think a lot of decisions
that are being made by the bank are really by men,
and people usually lend to people that look like them. Unfortunately,
So you created this future grant program, tell us about it.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Yeah, So it's in its second year, and like I said, again,
it was really just developed to address that funding and
support gap for women all businesses. One of the things
we realized though, really quickly, is that just putting funds
in someone's hands does not always solve the problems. So
we thought it was really important that in addition to
providing funding, that we pair that with the right services.
(04:04):
So they would be paired with a block advisor's experts,
they'd have a tax advisor, they have someone who can
help them not only stringlining cash flown machromizing tax deductions,
but also a sounding for it that they could sit
before and say, hey, I'm thinking of expanding, I'm going
to have to hire my first employee, what does compliance
look like for me? Or even helping them understand is
(04:26):
this person that I'm going to bring on board? Are
they a contractor or should they be an employee? Those
are all decisions that they're trying to make and we're
here to help them with that. So again, just being
able to pair them with the financial advantage as well
as the services and knowledge is kind of a win
win because they're going to have access to bookkeeping, payrolls,
(04:47):
small business consultations throughout the years. They need them business
formation services because they may not even have their business
forms properly. So those are some of the things that
are important to us.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I mean we definitely talked to on the show
Men many times. Having the right services, having the right
mentors tap along the way really really go a long
way for small business owners. So you got over eight
thousand applicants, thirty percent increase over last year, and you
picked Amy Pearson from Rebel Nell.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Why was that?
Speaker 5 (05:18):
You know, Here's what I like to share. As we
went through the application and the finalist energies, there was
really a coming thread across all of those women, and
one of those things were that they were here to
serve and uplift their community. And so when we came
across Ammy Peterson, she invited that the others. When you
think about that, the women that she's employing for her
(05:41):
workforce development program, people overcoming barriers like homelessness, speaking asylum,
or just living with disabilities. That's powerful. She's making a difference,
not just producing a product. And so when we thought
about who would be best to represent that kind of
grand prize or the fifty thousand dollars recipient. We wanted
to make sure it was someone that not just had
(06:02):
a good story to tell, but I also had a
plan for how she could use the fund, How would
be it, what would be the benefit to her if
she was coupled with these services for a year, what
different makes in her gamp list and so on her.
It was to really articulate that and show us how
it would benefit her in the future. Coupled with our
(06:23):
mission to begin with when we started to fund her
future brand just makes her the right winner this year.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So Emmy, let's bring into the show. So you got
the call and who called you? And what was your
first thought?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Well, the team called me, and it was it was
really actually quite intimidating because they said that they wanted
to have yet another like another call to ask me
some questions about my use for the grants. And I
was up all night like kind of really thinking through
(06:56):
answers and you know, making sure that they were going
to be solid in preparation for this call. And I
get on the call and they're like, just kidding, we
want to go up you want? And I mean it
was it was so overwhelming and surprise and also such
(07:18):
a so re energized by this and my gratitude beyond
belief to get this opportunity.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I'm excited to see what we do with it.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
So so let's go back. Just what is rebel Nell.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You talk about using use some graffiti that's fallen from
the buildings.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
What's really unique about Rebel Nell and also makes it
in many ways an extra challenging business is we're we're
fully committed to our social impact and sustainability impact. We
are a true, verified social enterprise. Our primary mission is
to provide employment for women who are transitioning out of
shelter living. In addition to that, we repurpose meaningful material.
(08:04):
So I started the company in twenty thirteen repurposing graffiti
that had fallen off the walls in Detroit. You know,
puts that in kind of perspective of Detroit was also
in the midst of a bankruptcy. There was a lot
of negative talk about the city. And here all I
saw was just this incredible city that had so much
culture and history and people, and how could that be
(08:26):
reflected in the product that we were selling in order
to provide the employment for the women. So it started
collecting graffiti that had fallen off the walls. We don't
touch it till it actually is on the ground and
we pick it up before it goes into the earth.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
And that has seen pevoted.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
It's still you know, what we do is repurposing graffiti,
but now we do so much more. We repurpose other
meaningful material. So if they're tearing down a building or
a sports arena, we will often get the call to
work on a collaboration to help repurpose that material.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
We've kind a great collaboration right now with the Detroit
Tigers where when they repurpose.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
The dugouts of the vinyl that comes off the dugout,
we turn that into a collection. And so that's I
think what makes us really special is that each piece
is one of a kind, not only because of the
memory that we're preserving the nature of the material, but
also the woman who makes it in her journey as well.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
You know, it's interesting because we actually purchased in Valprais
o Chili, they put graffita in all the buildings. It's
beautiful graffiti. It's not like what you think about hurting
the building. But that falls off and we actually bought
a piece of all these crumbling piece folks from an
artist organization of this similar thing in Valpraiso, Chili. So
I think it's a wonderful thing you're doing. How did
(09:44):
you get your idea to start this type of thing?
Where did your interest lie? I?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Actually, you know, I think so many small business owners
in many ways circumstances led them to start a business.
And my dream always was to be the first female
general manager of a Major League Baseball team.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That's what I.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Wanted to do. I set out well to be fair.
I really wanted to work for the Pirates, that was
my team growing up. But I got the opportunity to
come to Detroit, and I spent eleven years working for
the Tigers organization and enjoyed the opportunity. And I was
(10:26):
living next door to a shelter at the time, And
I do think that there are still a lot of
challenges within the industry.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Itself with promoting and supporting women with.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Who wanted to be on the baseball development side. And
so living next door to the shelter, would come home
from the games and got to know the women and
hear their stories. This same way of an opportunity for
me to thank the city that had been so great
at giving me an opportunity to pursue my dream. That
(10:58):
that's how rebels Well started. And it was a passion
project for many years, and it was something that all
I could do was you breathe and sleep rebel Nell
and decided ultimately to take the leap of faith and
go run it full time. And that's really how rebel
Nel came to be almost twelve years ago.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
No, I think it's such an important mission because, especially
with this current federal administration the president, these people are
being left behind. For folks that are aren't really familiar
with women who are in shelters. What's the challenge of
transitioning into being able to support themselves and having jobs.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I think so much one of the things that actually
brought I knew the system was meant to keep.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
Them in it.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I knew how challenging the system was, but even still,
I didn't realize how bad it was until I started
this work. And the there's so many it's often one
challenging life situation or one degree that separates us all
(12:05):
from being in a similar situation. And I think that
the world had more compassion for women who are going
through these challenges or frankly anybody. We live in a
more compassionate and supportive society, and.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
These are not compassionate times, so it's even more needed
more not.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
They're even more challenging, and I feel, to me, this
is something that we need even more. I think the
benefit of social enterprises is tremendous and just getting launching,
and so that's why I'm just even more grateful to
H and R for this opportunity to shine a light
on a business that has such a mission behind it
(12:47):
as well. I think speaks volumes about them as who
they are as an organization and what they truly believe in.
But to your original question, you know, many of these
women are just coming from just life situation, many least
challenging situations, in search of a better opportunity and only
for themselves or for their families, even if this meant
going back into shelter living and starting from scratch. And
(13:10):
he just didn't have a support system, which I feel
very blessed in my life to have a strong support
system to catch me in times when maybe I would
have fallen. If you don't have that, it's very easy
to fall into the system that keeps you in it.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, there's a very popular movie out there called Made,
and I think you see some of that firsthand.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I don't know if that's real the life or not.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It's very very accurate. I thought that was so well done.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean, the last question I want to ask you is,
of course we all want to know what are you
to do with the money?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
So what's really exciting? As we've grown over the years,
we've found that another opportunity for us is to bring
this experience of preserving memories that we currently do in
our manufacturing place to bring it to people in large
scale events. We can now we're going to build out
(14:03):
like a mobile unit that we'll be able to pop
up at large scale events, for example, to bring up
the Tigers again, we were there this past weekend. We're
fans for own pin or item out of the America
Park dugout. So it's really bringing that experiential component. We
(14:23):
did sound My Southwest this year as an opportunity, and
now we're getting the eye of larger organizations, larger, larger
sporting venues to bring this experience to life when so
many people are looking for those connection opportunities.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And Natasha, I just want to thank block Advisor for
doing this. I'm hoping you're going to continue doing this
next year and you can get more deserving applicants.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Thank you so much for bringing it to the public
and making people aware of what we're doing. We are
definitely looking to more ways to continue to help our
women owned businesses.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Latasha am thanks so much for joining us on this episode.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
There's a small business radio show. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
My work with thousands of small business owners over the
last twenty years inspired me to write my next book
on how to make changes.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Well, that's not exactly true.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
More accurately, my frustration and the resulting challenges working with
small business owners forced me to write this new book.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Let me explain.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I'm often asked by companies and small business owners that
I don't know to help them. Typically, they're feeling stuck
by a problem and their companies can't move forward. After
analyze the situation, we mutually decide on a go forward strategy.
I help them assemble a detailed plan to make any
changes and the critical sess factors and actions that need
to be completed. They agree that taking these actions will
(15:50):
help them, solve their issue for their company and make
them more money, and then almost nothing happens. Unfortunately, most
small business owners implement a few easy steps but never
take the critical or difficult ones that could make a difference.
This has long frustrated me, since we worked really hard
(16:11):
putting together this plan, and at the beginning we were
both excited about the result. I wrote my new book,
Change Masters, How to Actually Make the changes you already
know you need to make to figure out why small
business owners do not make the changes or take the
actions that they know will help.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Them reach their goals.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Where is the gap between sincere intent to make these
changes and the actions to actually do it? What holds
most people back and keeps them stuck on the same
path over and over again. Why are they still so
comfortable and not making these changes and staying on a
path that clearly doesn't work for them? One thing is
(16:51):
it's not adding to their happiness, and it's not adding
to their feelings success. What steps do they need to
take to slowly break free and start to make those
changes today that will help them in the long run.
In my new book, I reveal much of the psychological
research around why change is just so hard for so
many people, and real life strategies that every small business
(17:12):
owner can employ right now to make the changes they
need to make in their companies to grow. So get
my new book, Change Masters. Remember I'm not trying to
convince you to make a change, but rather help you
make the changes you already know you need to take.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Stick around to get your small business unstuck. More of
Small Business Radio with Barry Moles.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So what really goes on behind the scenes of some
of the largest sporting events in the world and what
can we learn about organizing the best experiences for your customers.
Don Costanti is a distinguished sports and event presentation expert
more than thirty years of experience throughout his career as
directive producer and manage more than twenty five hundred live events,
including NBA Finals, World Series and thirteen NBA All Star
(18:03):
Jam Session Center courts. His work spans major corporations major
organizations like the NBA, MLBWNBA and NASCAR, where it's consistently
elevated the quality impact of event presentations. He's got a
new book outs called Beyond the Scoreboard, The Ultimate Guide
to Sports Event Presentations.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Don Welcome to the show.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Thank you, I appreciate being here.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
So how'd you get involved in this kind of area?
Speaker 6 (18:28):
You know, lucky, I guess I went. I was really
rooted in marketing and sponsor sponsorship, corporate sponsorship, but I
got the opportunity with the San Antonio Spurs to really
focus in on the event presentation. I started my career
at NC State in marketing. That's where I found my career,
But I found my passion once I got to the
(18:49):
Spurs working in event presentation. That's how I found it.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So you talk about event presentation, and I think some
of us will think, well, a game is a game, right,
two teams are playing each other and there's a winner
and there's a loser, and you look at this to
something different.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
Yeah, you know, for me, I mean, there's going to
be a percentage of people that are coming for the
game itself, but there's so many other people significant others,
boyfriend's girlfriends, moms, dads, so on and so forth. They
are coming there because of their significant other. And for me,
you know, we have to create an experience that it
goes beyond you know, the game in sports, because take
(19:27):
my wife for example, she's not a sports fan. And
she has no reason or interest in attending the sport.
But if I can make that experience meaningful, engaging something
that really elevates her experience when she's there, she's going
to be more likely to want to come and have
a good time. So sports, the way I look at it,
it's about storytelling. It's about creating memorable moments, taking those
(19:51):
moments strategically aligning them in a very systematic way that
you're revealing them in an order that really enhances the
state and the stakeholders for for for sports, you know,
are the fans, and then you have the sponsors themselves
who are pouring millions of dollars into this that you
want to take care of, and then the participants themselves
(20:12):
on the court and the organization. So designing an atmosphere
that that understands what each of those journeys are, what
they're gonna what they're going to take in, and building
a game day experience around that.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You know, I keep thinking of we're season ticket holders
for the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field, and I keep
thinking about the kinds of things they do to make
an experience. Of course, my favorite distraction is playing mound
ball between andyings, does the ball end up on the mouth?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Right, because you gotta bet on that.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
But also it's the music, and it's the after the
game if they win, people taking out the flags and
you know, uh Addison getting out there.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
And waving the flag.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
When you do an event presentation, give it us an
example of what that feels.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
Like doing an event presentation. What that feels like. So,
if I'm under standing correctly, I mean it's it's very
you know, it's an extraordinary experience. I mean it's like
a lot of times listen, great game day experience, whether
it's at the Cubs or somewhere else, they don't just happen, right.
(21:13):
It's a lot of work. There's a lot of planning
that goes into it. There's a lot of logistics of storytelling,
and all of that comes together to create that type
of experience. So what it feels like is to be
able to put in the work, the planning, the execution,
the communication that all goes into how you are going
to deliver your atmosphere, your product is so important, and
(21:37):
then seeing it come to life as you're actually calling
the show and seeing how it's it's creating connections it's
building community with those that are in your your stadium,
and they're enjoying what you're presenting presenting to them. It
feels great. So the same.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Example is this the music is the stuff that happens
between the innings or we towart the time outs and
you know you're going to MBA games, there's different.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
What is it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Give us an example of something you've done where you
create the experience and what that's got.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
Yeah, so no, that's a great question. So you know
for me and my wife, I mean, it starts right
from the beginning. It's the climactic moment of the player introduction, right,
So you want to be in your seats. You want
to be there for that, the goosebump type of intro
with the lights come down, the music changes, the videos rolling.
You have entertainment resources out there that are being utilized,
(22:26):
whether it's dance teams or interactive squads, or it's mascot
creating this memorable moment that leads to this voice that
is introducing and bringing out the players, the stars of
the show in this particular case, and that is a
great moment. And then as you go it's kind of
ebbs and flows and so you get into the game
and you know, you want to be able to design
(22:49):
your experience. So you're taking people on a roller coaster.
You can't fully go on full throttle the entire time,
so it comes to a timeout and then sport it
would be like a promotion, and how all that is
designed and executed in terms of you know, signage and
you know, the execution of being implemented by the game crew,
(23:10):
and who the entertainment resources are going to be involved,
and there's just a story and the plot of the
promotion itself and how music adds such a significant element
to that to enhance it, and then the digital resources
that are available to make it cohesive. And so that's
another moment. And so then you you know, as you
move on, you got halftimes and you got you know,
(23:32):
when the team goes on a run and in the energy,
how do you handle that situation? How do you handle
it when you had something maybe that's not as exciting
plan Well, a game director has got to be able
to have the mindset to bump that and ride the energy.
And what do you do in terms of what video
and what elements and what resources can you play to
So I think that's that's a few examples.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
You know. I remember when Michael Jordan plays and we'd
be in the stadium and then of course the announces
and from the University of North Carolina, you know, Michael Jordan.
The whole place go crazy, right, the lights are down
low and they're just introducing all the people. What happens
when something goes sideways where the fans are booing, right,
the team is not performing, or you have a Kyle
(24:17):
Tucker on the Cubs where you know he had a
rough you know, two three four months, turns out because
of his thumb or whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
What do you do?
Speaker 6 (24:24):
Then, well, you know, you got to turn it up
even more, right, I mean, we designed the show with
the understanding that we have to put forth the best
design creating an experience regardless of the outcome on the
plane surface. And so in that particular case, I mean,
I worked with the Kansas City Royals. When I started
with the Royals, they were one of the worst teams
(24:46):
in the league. You know, for multiple years they averaged
about fourteen thousand fans in the beginning and when I
got there, and so they were you know, those were
fourteen very passionate fans right being there because the team's
not doing well, but what are we going to do?
And so when I got there, it was a very
stagnant kind of you know, predictable environment. So we changed
(25:07):
that and it was about, you know, trying to engage
the philosophy. The strategy has to be, like even in business,
is designing your your experience for the fans and focusing
I mentioned journey. Journey is so important and what's that
journey for them? And when they get to their seat,
how are we engaging, what's the content, what's the programming,
and so you know, in those particular cases and almost
(25:30):
when the team is struggling, it's more important to beef
up that entertainment and create that experience because the team's
not bringing it. And again it's a small percentage of
people who are there just for the game itself.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
You know, it's interesting to me because it does as
you were saying, it does start even before you get
in the stadium. I know with Bears games, you got
the whole tailgating thing going on, right, so people are
getting ready, they're anticipating the game. I don't know if
you've ever heard of the Savannah bananas Jesse Cole. Oh yeah, yes,
who's been on the show. I mean he took it
to the next level really right of entertainment, where it
wasn't just sport was entertainment. So after you produce the
(26:06):
events like the NBA Finals and World Series, are there
lessons from these sports events presentations that small business owners
can apply to creating memorable customer experiences.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
Yeah, you know what, that's that's a great question, and
absolutely I think that, you know, it's about lead with philosophy,
you know, design of philosophy that you know, like just
in sports, we were fan centric philosophy, but in business,
you know, business owners should establish that customer centric philosophy
(26:37):
that really guides every decision from pricing and service tone.
You know, customer sense authenticity and you know they value that,
and so you know, that's something I think that you
also have to think in terms of, uh, you know,
keep experiences fresh. Predictable game presentations for the fans are boring.
Predictable customer experiences for buyers is bad. Businesses need to
(27:02):
locate their promotions fresh displays for example, introduce surprises, you know,
so that customer stay excited and they come back. And
I mentioned multiple times about think about journey, you know,
not not so much moments. You know, sports are orchestrated
on the flow and keeping it seamless. Small business owners,
(27:23):
you know, they can map out their customer journey as
well from this, you know, from customers coming in discovery
to the purchase, to follow up and remove the friction points,
make every step, creating that experience that feels smooth and intentional.
Those are things that you know, business owners can also
think about. And there's a there's a bunch of other
things from designing the atmosphere and creating loyalty and maximizing resources.
(27:47):
But those are just a few that I'll point out.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
At this point, we're talking to Don Costanti, who wrote
a book called Beyond the Scoreboard, The Ultimate Guide to
Sports Event Presentation. Don, in your experience, what makes fans,
whether they're customer clients or their sports fans, what makes
them loyal? What makes them keep coming back? I mean,
I know that a winning team helps, but that's not
the only thing.
Speaker 6 (28:08):
No, no, it's not. I think you know a lot
of people are born into it in sports. I mean
I worked with Manchester City and that they are born
into that team. Whether you know that that is an
amazing experience. If you ever go overseas and go to
a football game over there, they're born into it. And
I think that, you know, we work hard here in
the United States, building through grassroots or through you know,
(28:33):
working with the younger generations to try to create an
experience and build the as fans as they come through
the stadiums or through the ballparks, and you know, by
by again designing again content specific for different demographics. And
so you can't, I guess the point I'm trying to
make here, You can't just have a cookie cutter and
(28:56):
say here's a design package that we're going to do
for all fans. You have to create for the kids.
You have to create so you're you're you're hitting them
with meaningful programming that that is appealing to them. Then
you need it for the teenagers, you need it for
you know, the young professionals, you need it for the
older generation. And it's a mix of that that comes together.
(29:17):
And I think that that that is probably something that
a lot of people sometimes don't think about and it
kind of they missed the mark on, you.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Know, one of the most fun experiences for me as
a fans when I go to cubspring training, right, because
it's so much more casual. You're sitting in a field,
You're sitting on a on a grass beyond the outfield.
The players in the outfield will talk to you during
the game, right, Yeah, right, It's just it's just a different, you.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Know, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
And I keep thinking back on just more recently, what
F one has really done to create to popularize that
sport in America where there was Drive to Survive on
Netflix and you got to know the drivers and the
paddock and the experience. And just more recently they've really
brought that exciting experience to them Erica where it's really
been ingrained in other countries for a long time.
Speaker 6 (30:04):
Yeah, you know, you know, I think anytime you can
utilize players or your your talent, you know, build connections,
build experiences. You know, we do it all the time
in sport where we bring uh, you know, people who
are attending down into an experiential type of activation, whether
(30:26):
it's high fiving the players or running out with them
or whatever it may be. Those are meaningful, you know,
you talk about you know, how do you you know,
create experiences that that's a huge experience for for for
people of all ages, and you know, even throwing. You
mentioned the pitching mount earlier. I mean, throwing a first
pitch is a huge experience for people, and so being
(30:48):
able to have a player come out and be a
part of that and catch and get a photo with them,
you know. You know, I'm a big fan of any
time that you can utilize your resources, and that goes
for you know, in professional sports, your biggest resource to
players to be a part of some of the experiences
because that's just going to elevate it and create much
(31:09):
more value.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So let's talk about using the players, because I guess
certain players you can use in a certain one you
can't because like again, you go to the Cubs, Like again,
I don't know if you know the Cubs, but like
Ian Hap right, he's doing a podcast. He's really, really great,
he's really you know, he can really talk to talk.
And then you have Kyle Tucker that just wants to
keep to himself. He's an introvert, right, I've seen him
interview at the Cubs convention. Are there certain players you
(31:30):
could approach? How did that work?
Speaker 6 (31:32):
Yeah? So you know, almost every team has what they
call media day, and so players come in and this
is early on, just before the season starts, and you're
able to, you know, get some digital content with them. Yes,
there are certain players that just don't want or have
maybe the ability or the personality that will shine through.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Which is fine. Just get a hit.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
I don't really care, right, exactly right, just make yourself
feel you know, cannected with the fans. And then there
are others that get it. There are you know, listen,
I love Tim Duncan when I was with the Spurs,
loved him. He's fantastic, but you know, he's very reserved.
He wasn't that type of player who really, you know,
I'm not into all of the fun and love, you know,
(32:16):
let's do all these fun games types of things. But
then there are other players out there that, you know,
just fall in love with it and say, listen, let
me give you some ideas. I'd love to be part
of some skits with your mascot. I'd love to do
some video. So some people vote for that, oh yeah yeah,
and even more. I mean they'll throw out ideas, you know,
and when the ideas are coming from the team, then
(32:38):
you're doing something right. And of course when you're utilizing
players and an important point here because you always want
to put them in a good light. You never want
to ruin their trust. You don't want to do something
that's going to create, you know, a negative where they
see the final product up on the screen they go, whoa,
I had no idea that's what you were going to
do and put them in the negative light. So it's
about working with them and communicating and you know, but
(33:01):
anytime you can have those types of players be a
part of something that you're doing for presentation and just
elevates it to a whole new level.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
So how do you how have used players?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
There's a lot more players around that don't speak English
or English is not their first language.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
We have a lot of you know, Japanese players on
the cubs that are big stars, but you know English
is not their first language, so they got to speak
through a translator.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (33:22):
You know?
Speaker 6 (33:22):
But that's authentic, that's organic, right, I mean, you put
them in front of a camera, you have an interpreter,
you have some fun with it. You then do your
due diligence, You do your research in terms of you know,
what's trending, what's something that you know, you can utilize
that would be fun to get to know this player
or have this player involved with and it's all part
of the authenticity to to utilize or come up with
(33:45):
some really creative ideas that really maximizes and takes advantage
of that, and that you can almost you take that
kind of what maybe some people look at as a
challenge and you kind of think differently, and suddenly now
it becomes something that is that resonates with the fans
and they love it and becomes something they talk about.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
You know, there's a there's a saying with the Cubs
when the song we sing after the game called called
uh hey, hey, what do you say the Cubs are
going to win today? Right? That's just kind of a
chant that happens. And so when Choate Minaga came to
the Cubs, he doesn't speak English, but in his first
press briefing he memorized that statement. Right, I love that,
and he said, of course in very broken English, but
(34:25):
everyone just loved it.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
Absolutely. Yeah, you're I'm talking about Yes.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
So what you talk about storytelling?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
What role do nicknames really play in the whole presentation thing?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
You know, you got cal rowling. Now is the big dumper, right,
and you had you.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Know, Javier Baiez, and who's on the Cubs we called
Almago the Magician. Are nicknames just more in more connection
to the to the.
Speaker 6 (34:50):
Storytelling, Yeah, I mean, I mean it's great. I mean
they come across organically a lot of times it's coming
obviously from the team, and you know, then it it
gravitates and connects with the fans. And when it connects
with the fans, it brings that player closer to the fans.
And so you know, assuming they like their nickname right
(35:11):
to some of them.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I mean, they used to call David Ross Grandpa, but
I guess he kind of liked it because it was
the oldest thing.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Yeah, team, I mean, you just get to know the players,
and that's all some of some of the things that
you talk about when you're in those media days that
I mentioned it, and you're talking to the players and
they'll tell you point blank, you know, I don't want
to talk about this or I don't want to be
mentioned like this, but storytelling obviously is so important. And
I think that you know, when you talk about again
(35:38):
nicknames you brought up, I mean, that's just a very
strong connection that can be utilized as a tool to
help create connection with that player with the fans.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So sometimes bad stuff happens, right, you know, player gets
divorced and there's some salacious thing around it, or a
player is you know, caught doing something illegal or hurting
somebody or something like that. How does that affect the storytelling?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (36:04):
Big time, right, I mean in those particular cases. These
are areas that you know, in different organizations handle it differently.
But you're not going to promote a player that or
or you're not gonna maybe maybe if you have content
that schedule for a game that that player is involved with,
maybe they're in some crowd punks, maybe they're in a
(36:26):
promotion as a digital element, and that player has had
negative press, you're gonna pull those elements and you're gonna
you're gonna pivot. You're gonna then move to what you
can do next. I mean, in in event presentation and
for anybody, you know, when you're presenting, whether it's meetings
or whatever, I mean, things can go wrong and you
got to understand what's the plan b here? What do
(36:48):
we do if if the mics go out? What do
we do if the video goes out? What do we
do in this case when a bad a player has
bad press. Well, in this particular case, you know, the
show goes on. We pick of it. It's transparent to
the fan base. We move forward with other content. We
don't produce just enough content that that's all the content
(37:09):
that we have the entire year, and we repeat it.
We have continual creation and content being made. So if
something does happen, we pull it. We it's plugged, we
put in something else, then we move on.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So in your experiences, every single professional sports team have
someone like you that's producing the games.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Well, you know, everybody has this role, and you know,
it's an interesting little barrier that you know a lot
of people. I mean, there isn't a course or a
class that teaches people how to produce or how to
do event presentation. You basically when you get into these roles,
you're either you know, inheriting what's already been done and
you just move forward with the status quo because that's
(37:50):
the way it is, or maybe you're coming in with
a little bit more experience because you've been somewhere else
and you're starting to make some tweaks. And so there
is a person's should be if there's not somebody that
is orchestrating and designing the event presentation and incorporating the
philosophy of the organization into it. If they're not out there,
you need to be doing it.
Speaker 7 (38:11):
And I think though, that's why this book that I've
wrote is so important and it's so needed at this point,
is because it's going to allow people to understand what
are the core principles of event presentation.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
What should we be thinking of. Oh, yeah, we're having
those pain points. Oh, this is a guy that's going
to show me exactly how I need to improve it great,
and I can customize it on top of that to
make it our own. And I think that, you know,
that's why I wrote the book Various, because you know,
there are a lot of people out There's a lot
of people that do a great job out there, without question,
but unfortunately, there are even more that are struggling in
(38:48):
this area.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Right. So, let's what I want to ask you is,
throughout your career, is there a favorite favorite player that
you worked with and said, Wow, this person's really great
for the event.
Speaker 6 (38:57):
Yeah. You know, you know, I've worked with some really
good players in the past, and some, like I said,
that were very, very creative, and I think that you know,
in the NBA, they tended to be a little bit
more engaged with what we were doing. You know, a
player like I mean, it goes back as Leak Rose,
(39:17):
you know, I don't know, I mean people remember Elik
but fantastic you know to work with, and you know,
and and and David Robinson was great to work with.
And then you know, like I said, it's and then
you go to baseball and and you know, baseball is
a lot of fun, but the players were a little
bit different when I came during that time, from the
Spurs to the Royals. You know, I was I think
I was one of maybe two that came from the
(39:39):
NBA in this role. And so baseball is a very
traditional sport, and I think that, you know, the mindset
is very traditional. And so here I come in with
m b A and fused ideas and I remember at
media day the players looking at me, going, what do
you want me to do? You know, you know, put
a headset on and and try to figure out what
this music is. And so you have learned quickly, yeah,
(40:02):
you learn quickly what doesn't work. But then you do
find players going Oh, this is brilliant. This is great,
and those were some of the players. Obviously we connected
and I'd love to work with well.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Don, I appreciate you be on the show. Where can
people catch up with you?
Speaker 6 (40:16):
Yeah, so they can find me on my website at
Kystantigroup dot com, dot co, S T A N T, E,
G R O U P dot com. I'm also on Twitter,
I'm on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn, so any of those
they can certainly reach out to me. I would love
to connect.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Don, Thanks so much for joining us. I want thank
everyone for joining this week's radio show. Remember love everyone,
trust a few, and peal your own canoe. Have a
profitable and passionate week.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You can find Barrymoltz on the web at Barrymolts dot
com or more episodes of Small Business Radio at small
buzsradioshow dot com.
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