July 24, 2023 • 48 mins
In this episode, three students takeover the pod to discuss the issue of sexism and misogyny in the gaming world. Harper Winslet, Jessica Thornton and Leila Miller-Jones from BHASVIC college in Brighton and Hove were inspired by the research of Anita Sarkeesian and wanted to see if their own primary research gained similar results. The research considers early games when objectification was first noticable up to more comptemporary issues such as whether the rise of Andrew Tate has had a signigicant impact on the gaming world.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hi, You're listening to a studentfocused episode of the Sociology Show podcast.
If you're studying the subject at gcsA level, foundation degree or any other
discipline, then this podcast could beof help to you. If you have
a question for the show, thenyou can email the Sociology Show podcasts the
Gmail dot com and one of theteachers, lecturers, examiners, or experts
(00:28):
will answer your question for you.You can sponsor the show on the go
fund me page and subscribe on allthe usual podcast platforms. If you're going
to class, going to the gym, or just chilling, put your headphones
in and let's be Sociology gets together. Ah, Hello and welcome to the
(00:49):
Sociology Show podcast. This is astudent takeover episode, and the takeover is
actually from my own students from BasficCollege in Brighton Hove down on the south
coast of England. And three ofmy students were very interested in sexism in
video games and misogyny in video games. They're inspired by some research by Anita
Sarkeesian and they wanted to carry outtheir own research to see if they found
(01:12):
similar findings in terms of how muchmisogyny is out there. How sexist the
video games are and the types oflanguage and interactions people use when they're playing
online video games in particular. Sothe three students conducted this research are Harper
Winsleor, Jessica Thornton, and LaylaMiller Jones. I asked them to put
together a podcast. I was reallyimpressed with the depth and knowledge here,
(01:33):
and also they had a little bitof humor in there as well, and
it's a really fantastic piece of research. So without further ado, let's go
over to listen to sexum in VideoGames with Harper, Jessica and Layla Enjoy
Hello, Oh my god, HeyHi. So I'm Halper, I'm Jeff
I am Layla, and our sociologypresentation in the form of the podcast.
(01:56):
Yeah, we contemplated in a video, but I came freshman. You won't
find yourself. Don't mind yourself,Harper looking gorgeous, gorgeous. Stop.
Yeah. So basically we are doingso using the secondary data from Sarkeesia.
Oh my god, I'm so sorry. We are doing we are looking at
(02:20):
the culture of online gaming and theportrayal of femininity and masculinity in the video
game world. And I basically usethis to form our research question, which
is how our regressive misogynistic values presentedin the gaming world. Yeah, yeah,
I guess the hypothesis were kind ofthe mesogynistic attitudes were still very present
in the gaming world as they havealways been, and we're kind of I
(02:43):
guess not yeah, not even tryingto prove it, but just exactly what
that is. Look at you go, halfer um. So me and Jess
both looks at some articles and likevideos that Sarcasian did and mine was about
tropes versus women in video games,and she pointed out which I thought was
(03:06):
actually like it sort of shows likeit traces back to where the first like
signs of objectification of women. Whatwas when the first video game appeared in
a pinball arcade and it's called computerSpace was released in nineteen seventy one.
I believe I think that's what yousaid last. Yeah, the objective of
(03:29):
the game was very simple. Itwas a rocket that was shooting down pixelated
sources. We obviously nothing to dowith women at this stage of video games.
However, they the company advertised theirgame with women stood next to like
the arcade machines wearing revealing clothes whichobviously is it seems to be the first
(03:53):
way that women were especially things.It was the first online game, it
was already using women's sexually like beingwomen being sexualized to advertise it, and
it was sort of unnecessary because it'sgot enough game. It just seemed to
obviously the aim was to capture themale gaze, particularly probably young teenage boys.
(04:13):
So I wonder if that kind ofmaybe influenced the idea that like online
gaming is more of a male space, and yeah, idea maybe, Yeah,
yeah, definitely that's and obviously thisgame being released what like over fifty
years going now, it's from rightthe scarbas the traditional values have just been
kept and carried through to Ja.Yeah, no exactly, So I guess
(04:36):
that's what like why we became interestedwas because you can obviously clearly tell that
this hasn't although it might have changedbased on video games evolving, the like
principles are still the same that behindit. So yeah, and as well,
because this topic was influenced by ourtopic three of globalization of globalization,
(04:56):
Yeah, it's interesting to see whatother aspects of globalization can also be seen,
like the misogynistic attitudes kind of inthe dial Yeah, definitely, it's
quite like I mean, I wouldn'tsay it's subtle, but like until you
like sort of scrape underneath the stuff, you don't really notice how by its
I feel like it's quite overlooked sometimes. Yeah, um, soul get onto
(05:17):
what we did for you guys.Overviewed the research by Sarkeesian. Yeah,
okay, so I looked at basicallymore recent examples. Sarkeesian basically found that
the damsel in distress trope has sortof seen a resurgence in recent years.
So the tribe basically provides like aneasy default motivation for male heroes, um
(05:40):
because it allows them to prove theirmasculinity, um and like. As a
result, the game developers have likeexploited images of victimized women and use their
trauma sort of as like a catalystfor the game's plotline, with even like
domestic violence sometimes being presented as likean altruistic app and it can be seen
(06:01):
in like modern games like Call ofDuty and Grand Theft Auto. Oh yeah,
that was one of the ones thatwe did, so I think that
was I think it was even releasedin twenty thirteen or Maine in twenty thirteen,
but Basically, Sarkitian said that theobjective of this game was to buy
a prostitute, use it, andthen kill them to claim your money,
(06:21):
which I think is obviously highly Yeah, I mean I don't I don't particularly
understand it, but I mean whatever, that's like, that's what I do
on my Friday evening is half ohmy bad, sorry on my lifestyle.
Yeah, sorry, it's yeah,it's the lifestyle. Definitely, so my
I didn't because the two girls halfjust obviously did their initial research on Sarkatian,
(06:46):
it was a secondary data. Idid the unstructured interview, which was
primary, our main primary. Yeah, definitely research that we did semi structured.
We had like questions, yeah,semist action, which we enjoyed because
I barking, I mean, yeah, undecided, but it kind of it
(07:10):
allowed us to elaborate with the participantsand get them to explain what we asked.
And also because a lot not alot of us, I didn't have
the biggest understanding that, so itkind of left me went in. Yeah,
we went. I think the bitwe were interested in was the gender
(07:30):
identity and that kind of misogynistic attitude. Yeah, the idea of the whole
gaming world. Really, I letthe gamers and the people that we interviewed
dictate or like open my eyes tothat. I guess. So our sample
was ten people. They were avolunteer sample because we needed people who were
actually interested in online gaming who couldgive us useful information. I guess that
(07:53):
makes it quite high. And theywanted to exactly, and it meant that
what they were saying was pretty truthfuland it wasn't just like a bunch of
people who didn't know what they weretalking about, but also ethical as well.
Yeah, yeah, yes, aten questions, ten people and even
numbers. Yeah, exactly, I'llsummarize a couple of points. Yes,
(08:16):
I guess I've put together or I'vebasically just kind of selected the two most
different interviews or the two most interestinginterviews. So the first person we asked
the question, do you think thatanimality makes people feel more comfortable? And
to say team defensive? We can'tsay it was so ethical. Can we
(08:41):
say if it's a girl or aboy? Or yeah, I think yeah
it was a guy, Okay,And he said that playing on FIFA specifically,
there was a lot of toxic masculinitywithin the community, which you could
argue would scare away women. Althoughthere has been like a new adaptation in
the FIFA world which is very nicewhere women and now added and you can
create a team of both women andmen. I've actually got something. Oh
(09:05):
my god, do you remember metelling you I do remember this way I
finish this? Ye? I meanjust this point. Yeah. Yeah.
So he said there was lots ofmasculinity expressed within FIFA, partly because of
how competitive it was, partly becauseit had like a nature of toxic masculinity.
But I feel like, if that'ssuch a good example of there are
(09:28):
games which literally have toxic masculinity embeddedinto the culture. But I've I've never
met a girl who's like, ohyeah, I've an avid FIFA player.
Ye met guys, because it doesn'tseem very like you know. So I
thought that was quite eye opening.But oh my god, just died.
Oh. What I was going tosay was, so I was talking to
(09:48):
I'm quite a shamed to say thathe's my friend down, but I was
talking to my good friend like goodfriends as well, I know, And
I was like, I'm doing I'mconducted. Well, I'm not really conducting,
but I was just wondering if Icould ask some questions to do with
gaming, because he games a lot, like and he said that the presence
of like women in FIFA is pointless, and he said some other stuff as
(10:11):
well. I wish it was onSnapchat, so I should have saved the
messages. Actually that would have beenby the smart money lies. But I'd
like to summarize what he said.And I'm not obviously quoting him, but
he said along the lines of,like, there's no print in having women
in video games because they're doing iton purpose to seem more inclusive, whereas
in actual fact they don't actually care. Sort of thing that directly links onto
(10:33):
what I was about to say.Well, perfect, Oh my god.
Yeah. So the fifth question Iasked in this interview was why didn't there's
an absence of female players in thegaming world. And this guy, the
first, like the first of thetwo people that I selected out of the
ten, basically said the big gamingcompanies don't mark it towards female players because
there's already like a market in anaudience within young male players. There's no
(10:54):
reason they would need to, andbecause like so much of advertising is kind
of towards the male games. Anyways, you think they feel under pressure to
I just I feel I don't feelany pressure to know that I feel.
He just basically saying they don't markit towards too the players, because they've
got a large amount they don't needto pretty much. He also said that
(11:16):
along the lines of I asked aquestion which was do you think the video
against influenced perceptions of women in reallife? And he basically said his friend
didn't really seem to have a separationof online online and in real life,
and so he would set leg womena lot because on so many of the
games there are hyper sexual as womenavatars. So do you think that makes
(11:39):
to like the idea of anorminities?That thought? So, I guess because
some people will say stuff online andnot saying person. Clearly, this person,
his friend can tell the difference.You know. It's like that exactly,
And it's kind of yet all linkingback to like the sexual avatars and
everything like from the first Yeah,so Sarkisian, sorry because somebody died.
(12:05):
I just had it my head.There was that and now I can't break
out. But you're gonna have tothe other like what was the other stuff?
So the second guy who I selectedI always like stuff Stock. I
love him. I don't know actuallyquite who he is, but I just
think he's awesome. He has partof an online group who go to like
(12:28):
gaming tournaments and play amongst each otherlike a following, like formal sort of
thing. I think, so that'sa professional like win money and stuff.
Can't you. I think you winsomething or maybe you just win and that
boosts your popularity. Don't quite know, but it's fine. But basically,
(12:50):
he was really interesting to talk toyou because his perspective was from his small
community, so it kind of showedthat they were like zones within the gaming
world. So he basically said thaton his team it was just people who
he played against who were just decentat the game. And regarding animnity,
(13:11):
he said, you can say whateveryou want in theory. Yeah, being
a white, straight dude, it'snot the biggest deal to me personally.
It's like what they're going to threatenme with quoting him directly here. But
you know, with other demographics I'veseen it, it could be tough.
People would just relentlessly gang up onpeople for the smallest things because then anything
they can get away with it.And I think that links onto for my
(13:33):
research exactly. It's the real riskof animality is that you don't really get
many consequences for what you say,unless it's quite bad that you can't like
sort of well, I mean youcould track it down, but if you
were tracking every sort I mean cyberbully or nine, that there would be
no one left. Also with thatquite true with the anonymous space, it
(13:54):
makes people then more comfortable to saythings in real life as well because they've
had that experience I've already like sayingand starting to move into that territory or
it's kind of like, what's itlike an echo chamber where if you find
like minded people you think, oh, that might be trying. Like that
can translate to real life and narrowsthat well, not exactly, that's very
true because yeah, it's not good. That's the best time I could come
(14:18):
up say like monotonal as well,when I saw it's not good. It's
just not good. But yeah,what did the other personally expected? It?
Was it a girl that was Yeah, so I've selected three. Yeah,
there was a first guy who hadthe toxic masculinity friend. Second guy
(14:41):
was part of a team. Yeah, he also for my seventh question,
which was do you see positive aspectsof gender identity? He said that the
fact that people weren't focalizing on genderwas the positive aspect of gender identity.
There was a lot, like inhis world, there was. It was
a lot of it was guild based, so it kind of took the whole
(15:01):
emphasis of gender off of it,which he thought was a really positive and
progressive thing, wasn't it. Itwas even Haaraway or Robertson that did that
in the in the globalization unit,they talked about Harraway, which I guess
is a positive you could take away. But then it's not like that a
load is going to you know,it doesn't change the fact that people are
(15:24):
still going to be like a sorry, a pip just came out of my
mouth. Sorry, later, whatwere you saying? It's like, oh,
you know what, I'm not forMy trainer thought, like, you
know what, So let me justgo right back to the beginning. Let's
(15:46):
cut to the chase head. Sowhat I am trying to conclude is that
although a woman can hide behind orwas he the screen and have like a
gender neutral name or like a namethat doesn't suggest anything about her gender,
she still she might still hear stuff, so it shows that you know,
you could not partake in it andlike not have to show that you're a
(16:10):
woman. But if if there's menon like playing and they're being you know,
misogynistic, then it's still happening.Basically the fact that they have to
hide it as well, it justgoes exactly so that someone who have not
included their interview in My three Chosenone. She spoke about the fact that
on the online gaming world, ifyou do show agenda as a girl,
(16:32):
you're either like a tomboy girl doesn'treally associate herself with femininity or an e
girl who's hyper feminine, and there'snot really much in between going on.
You're one of the guys or you'rea plane female gays Like how you benefit
men versus how it's like benefits.Yeah, okay, so like you know,
you've now got these two categories thatyou know you can't like transcend.
(16:55):
You're either one or the other.Yea, you can game, but if
you're a tomboy and one of theguys or a egirls, and either way
you're still going to face abuse forboth of them exactly. Anyway, Yeah,
for my third for my third participantor I guess interviewee. They said
that, So I asked the question, do you think there's an answerence to
(17:18):
female players in the gaming world,And their answer to this was, I
think some games are more predominantly female, but for predominantly male games, they
don't want female players in them,so they try to rate them so the
plays so that they therefore create femalezones and males. Was a really interesting
way of putting it, like peoplein each zone are not going to recognize
(17:40):
the opposite side, or maybe inthe male zone, you're just going to
think, oh, no female playsthis game because they are actively avoiding or
the really basic hosogronistic games. Also, they're in like a tights or circle
if if you're thinking about like regressivevalues and going back to traditional ways,
sort of the separate spheres for menand women. It's kind of like reminis
sint of like nineteen fifties, likeoh my god, domestic sperience kind of
(18:03):
desire. Ye, look at youguys, Oh my gosh, right,
do you have what else? Like? Yeah? Point for the eighth question,
I asked, I think gee,I asked us to everyone and most
people said, So I said,what do you think the roles of men
and women are or should be inthe online gaming world. Most people just
said equity. Everyone should just beequal. There shouldn't be a kind of
(18:27):
dislike there shouldn't just be this disportionexactly. That's what I'm looking for.
But my interview said everyone should geta chance play the game they want,
and the female players should get toenjoy a male space, whereas right now
she does not feel there was thatkind of equality, which I thought was
really interesting, especially from a female'sperspective, because the other people were kind
(18:48):
of like, yeah, equity anddidn't really see like they didn't point out
as much misogynistic attitudes although they wereoccupying male spaces, whereas I feel if
you're not, it's more visible yea. And relating to the what was it
recessive or aggressive? So for mylast question that I asked everyone, I
(19:10):
was how do you I asked,how do you think that the rise of
Andrew Tato has influenced attitudes? Thisis in the game, and so the
first person I asked said, becauseTate is influencing younger people, and younger
people still play video games, ittherefore makes the online world even more toxic
(19:30):
and could discourage women. The secondperson I asked actually said, Andrew Tat
is just ananimate, is just ananomaly, and he has an impact,
but any younger people who he didn'tplay with. So my second person he
was part of the online gaming team, Oh yeah, so he I don't
think UM spoke to or kind ofcame to contact with a lot of younger
(19:52):
players. So it proves that whatside the online gaming world occupy us.
And my asked participant who was agirl I thought I put out? She
said that she felt that Tate hadhad had a big impact in real life
than the gaming world, and said, yeah, there have always been sogynistic
(20:14):
attitude, but she argued that likeTate's kind of being on the side of
social media of pointing out like thathis actions were wrong. She basically said
that, ever, since because he'sso extreme, people began calling out my
sogynist behavior, which she said,like, that's a real big positives.
You said, shall I go throughmy m what's called grovern? Now?
(20:40):
Yeah? I said that my generalizabilitywas lower because we only interviewed a small
age range. However, the peoplethat we interviewed had kind of played amongst
people of many different age ranges.So although we only had access to people
within the sixteen to eighteen age range, because they'd interacted with people from all
(21:02):
ages, you can kind of arguethat their answers could be higher. In
generalizability, I'd argue our representativeness waslow because our sample was volunteer. Yeah,
a volunteer sample. We wanted thatthey wanted to do it there before
we're going to be enthusiastic. Yes, exactly. We had a range of
(21:22):
gender identities, which I think,Yeah, it was higher. Reliability was
higher because we recorded that. Irecorded all of the interviews so he could
replicate it, and I wrote downall of my questions. Objectivity I was
reflected throughout and transferred directly from theaudio document onto my piece of paper.
I guess I'm referring back exactly whatthey said and didn't cherry pick. Validity
(21:47):
was high Bill Report, and Ifeel that what they told us was truthful.
Yeah, I think it was veryinsightful, especially since we didn't going
into this week. I think thatalso makes it quite high a objectivity because
we didn't know, like what whatwas actually going on, what was actually
happening, like our values couldn't reallywe didn't have like second exactly, yeah,
because we didn't have any we likedat during which I think, which
(22:11):
was so good. Yeah, Iloved it. And our ethics were high.
No deception because I advertised who wouldlike to be Interviet sociologies. Yeah,
we didn't. We didn't cause ita harm far as I'm aware.
No one has emailed me like sayingthat I'm suing you. So that's great,
and they we didn't. It wasn'tan invasion of privacy because they signed
(22:33):
up for it. Yeah, soI reckon. I think that in terms
of ethics was probably what was veryhigh. I think, so it was
validited. What would you which onewould you want to improve after go over
terms? Do you know? Ithink if we would do it again,
the generalized ability and representativeness, itwould be so interesting to interview a wider
range of people. Yeah, Ithink even for us our study in the
future, but also just for us, just for us, just for us
(22:56):
again for us. Okay, Soafter Lena did her like main primary research,
which is sort of like the bodyof our works, like what we
wanted to find out, and likeI guess I did, like really go
in depth about the progressive misogynistic values. I decided to do some content analysis
(23:17):
on TikTok and jess, what didyou do well, I sort of did.
I was originally going to do participantobservation, but that plan kind of
fell through, so I did sortof an unstructured interview conversation conversational type thing.
Yeah, with my step brother,he's like very into the gaming world,
(23:37):
and he's twelve, and he's verylike immersing the world when my gaming,
and he's experienced a lot of thelike misogyny that we've been talking about.
And yeah, I think it's areally imprabling angle to take it from
because obviously he's twelve years old.He's twelve. A lot of like even
if you go on to like theinterweb and the social media of like clips
of people gaming, even a lotof them like older people. So I
(24:00):
think from like a younger person's perspective, who's kind of views being shaped shaped
not to talk about like that,but do you think that like perhaps online
gaming will sort of shape perspectives thathe has a woman? I think it's
really dangerous and really scary actually thatwe decided I decided to do content analysis
(24:22):
on TikTok because TikTok was the platformthat amplified Andrew Tat's sort of presence in
society, which obviously for a coupleof was it moms maybe a couple of
weeks months, gained a lot ofattention, like of media attention. Obviously
he's you know, and then thatmeans that his arrest and staff was very
you know, publified. Yeah.But what I decided to do was look
(24:47):
in to female gamers on TikTok byliterally just typing that into the such box
to see what came up. Andthe first three relevant videos were the ones
where it was like female gamers weresat with their like head sets one and
whatever, and they were all like, I think two of the videos were
the women started talking obviously for thefirst time in this game, and there
(25:08):
had been a group of men,and it was both and then both videos
it showed the responses of the men, which were obviously not very nice.
And then the other one was justa girl sat down gaming like just like
just talking behind like what she wasdoing. And I decided to use for
each of the videos. I scrolledthrough the first twenty comments and from there
(25:30):
I picked out which ones were seemedlike negative, misogynistically like driven effectively,
and then I put it into thestatistic that one out of six of the
comments that I read were misogynistically motivated, which obviously is you know, even
in the majority seemed not. Andit's out of the top twenty as well,
So those are the most liked andthe most were definitely. So I
(25:52):
think even though you know, amajority at one six is not obviously a
big sort of I don't know ifit he detect scrolling and then more would
come up. I said, it'slike, who has interacted with that?
Yeah, up to the top,Yeah, people that have liked it,
like replied to those comments. Ididn't go through all the replies and stuff
because that would take a whole lotlonger, but you would not be here.
(26:14):
I would not be here to tellthe tale. But yeah, so
even though it's like, even thoughmost of the comments were supportive, it's
almost like, you know, thefact that there were comments carrying these attitudes
quite a lot once it feels alot to be fair, but obviously it's
way under half. But I thinkthat the fact that there were sexist statues
(26:36):
just present anyway should not be likedeemed like sort of an anomaly. I
think it should be. You know, these this minority group of people who
were being misogynistic, they need tobe addressed and obviously educated about it.
But I'm going to quickly read outa few of the stuff that a couple
of the comments that I noted down, which was for context. Obviously,
(26:59):
this was on the video of afemale gamer who posted the video of the
boys behaving sexistly towards her. Sofirst comment that I saw was quite proud
of that community, even though I'mnot part of it, which I thought
was a bit of a mixed message. But it just seems a bit partoynists,
but very yeah, you know,good for them, like yeah,
(27:22):
yeah, exactly, the boys tryingto make it out that he's I don't
know, not a misogynist, butI think that's you know. Then the
next one said just said, myboys, we've got w homie, which
just means like they're supporting what thisquote unquote home you said. Then we've
got W players, Then we've gotclassic, we've got real stigma. That's
(27:45):
why we love CS which I thinkwas the name of the game or like
the platform whatever than they were onw community. And this one I thought
was particularly interesting because it was quiteinvalidating, but it said it's like,
it's like this for everybody, notjust for you. So I thought that
was, you know, either that'sfrom like a female player, which is
(28:07):
which also shows that misogynistic attitudes arestill very right within the gaming community,
or it's from someone who also hasexperience abuse, which would be there's other
demographics you are also experiencing abuse.Either way, it's got different connotations,
both of which, but either wayit's not good. And then the last
one was pick me, so effectivelythat's feeding back into what you said about
a girl being like one of thegirls boys sort of thing. So yeah,
(28:30):
you can't play without being deemed youknow, not a girl basically or
hypersexualist exactly. And I just thought, you know, it's very apparently it's
happening. And I think also thefact that people are, you know,
commenting the stuff, that means thatthey're like happy to publicly share their opinions,
so even like and then also I'dsay that it's like it means that
(28:52):
for the people that choose not tocomment, how many of these people are
carrying the same views and just don'tcomment. So for the small group of
people that do comment it and doshare opinions, you know, there's like
a whole majority of other people whohave the same opinions, but haven't you
know, kind of shows how thelines between like the online world and reality
start to become blurred because they're nowsaying that publicly and it's no longer anonymous.
(29:17):
Yeah. Yeah, because also theuser names were like people's full names
as well. I mean I didn'tfind it doubt on the names, but
because I would not share it,I got to stick to the ethics exactly.
But I mean, but you canfind out about people just why they're
using names. And also I thinkas well, like although to remain ethical
we didn't name names, I thinkthat um it technically shouldn't. Like it's
(29:41):
not really in uninformed consent or whatever, like, yeah, it's not necessary
because then they're happy for people tosee it and share it anyway. Surely,
Yeah, Like clearly they like Imean, maybe they only have sub
colleciously thought about it. But likeyou know, when you go to comment
something, you read out there foreverybody to see, and there's like digital
(30:03):
footprint all of that stuff, whichyou know, so I'd argue we didn't
cross in the ethical bound I don'tthink we crossed everyical boundaries. I mean,
it wasn't an invasion of privacy whatsoever, informed consent. I mean,
we're sharing their comments that they've sharedto a whole platform of like people are
potentially millions of people. Yeah.Yeah, And then wasn't deceptive and no
(30:29):
harm to the participants because we haven'tnamed them. And then about the other
graver terms, I said that itwas it was low in reliability. Don't
worry, I've got here, don'tyou worry, because the nature of TikTok
is that there's constant updates and likechanges in the algorithm system, which means
that if another sociologist was to carryout on their own device and search the
exact same vid eye search into thesearch, but they probably wouldn't be able
(30:52):
to find the exact same videos withthe exact same comments at the top exactly.
I also said that in terms ofobjectivity, my opinions didn't influence,
like, you know, the results, because I qualied I literally copied and
paste of what was said. Youknow, there was no I mean,
obviously I just picked out the commentsthat seemed to show it was all was
(31:14):
from the top twenty from the top, tive, and then validity. I
said that it's not exactly high andvalidity because if everyone commented their opinions,
then it would be truthful. Butbecause this is only you know, a
small group of people that are commentingtheir opinions, it's quite difficult to understand
everybody's like reflective of that and stuff. And in terms of like generalizedability and
(31:40):
representativeness, wasn't overly but I thinkin comparison to using qualitative data, obviously
I did get like a bigger Yeah, I got you know, sixty people,
predumably sixty different people as well.I'm pretty sure i'd like to see
any repeated names. So sixty differentpeople's opinions seems you know, it shows
patterns, patterns and trans patterns,and we love patterns and trail. It's
(32:01):
kind of like you can do allyour research and to these are the statistics
for this, this and that,but you've got people in real life actively
being misogynistic and going out of theirway to do so, and then have
pulled up like an average of that. Yeah, which is so I think,
Yeah, it's yeah, the statistics, I guess show statistics don't lie,
(32:22):
they do not lie. But whatlinking back to the whole thing about
how this could be influenced by AndrewTables these videos were. When I looked
at the dates, they were allwithin the last I want to say,
six months, it was like fiveor six months. It was since the
beginning of the shiar definitely. Yeah, So I mean, I don't know
if that's reflective of Andrew Tates beingin the picture, having his values like
(32:45):
posted online or whatever, but Imean it could be. It's so hard
to like tell if it wasn't wasn'tlike it's like because it was all on
social media. All of social mediais intertwined anyways. Yeah, Like,
I guess you can think of differentcommunities kind of accessing the same kind of
information not infiltrating it. It's niceto think that something on social media would
(33:07):
not infiltrate the online world, Butyou just don't know exactly, So that's
it's hard to tell. But Imean, we could potentially put it out
there that Andrew Tate had influence maybeone of these comments at least exactly.
But yeah, and then you spokequite a lot about Andrew Table. Okay,
yeah, so that kind of linksto the sort of like unstructured interview
(33:29):
slash conversation I had with my brother. So he's only twelve of us mentioned
before, and he was like veryinvolved in the online gaming world, specifically
when Andrew Tape was popular, andhe noticed like a significant like almost like
a direct correlation between Andrew Tait's popularityand how much misogyny was present sort of
(33:52):
online I mean on chats kind ofwith strangers, but also perhaps amongst his
friends group as well. It wasvery comical and obviously particularly in the online
gaming world. So basically what hewas saying was that there was some like
quite a lot of casual like traditionalmistogeny present, so just comments like you
(34:16):
know, make me a satmwage orlike go back to the kitchen, like
not even casual, actually blatantly sexistcomments. I guess I'm non original used
in a casual setting, but notyet casual. But then it also got
more extreme. U not amongst hisfriends, but amongst strangers. He even
(34:37):
heard some like threats of sexual harassment, which obviously for a twelve year old
boy, that is very influential.I mean, it's quite interesting. If
you think about it links back tothe first guy that I interviewed. He
was talking about he got into gamingwhen he was like seven or eight.
Yeah, and so it's so interesting, like like it was I think brought
(34:59):
up a lot on social media whenat like the downside of Andrew Tape was
that a lot of his following wasyoung men. Yeah, and they're so
influential that it's kind of it's sointeresting that your brother. Yeah, it's
good that he was able to recognizethat's that's wrong. At first they didn't,
so it's very It did definitely havean impression on him. He essentially
(35:22):
on his algorithm on his TikTok fewpage was obviously very different to what people
like us would have been. Andthe clips he was seeing of Andrew Tape
were more kind of like started offas like motivational content, trying to like
inspire young boys. Obviously that wasmasked to be like masking something very bad.
Yeah, but he saw it askind of motivational, and he saw
(35:44):
stuff about Andrew Tape donating to charities. Yeah, it's so easy to like
manipulate certain facts because you could saythat anyone has done any like bad person
has done a good thing, andthey can just like over amplify this good
deed and completely like block out allthe bad stuff. Because you were saying
about how like, you know,obviously the motivational stuff is like he's telling
them not to smoke, not toyeah, stuff like this, which seems
(36:07):
on surface from a good perspective,it seems quite innocent as well. That's
the kind of stuff that you wouldget taught in schools. Yeah, exactly,
so it seems quite authentic as well. Yeah, kind of almost a
bit of tenalistic. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, that's like almost like a
father figure for a lot of youngboys, which kind of Yeah. And
then as the misogyny starts to slipin, he might get like the occasional
(36:30):
video with a casual fro away comment, but he wasn't getting the serious,
like harmful misogynistic videos that I wouldhave been seeing half for a Laila,
So it kind of, yeah,began to influence his mindset. Um,
I mean probably to the point wherehe was saying misogynistic things. I mean,
(36:50):
obviously it's hard for me to know, and it doesn't make him necessarily
the bad person because this is whathe's you know, been and that's that
kind of shows how much of animpression the media can have, and like
obviously with the globalization topic, likehow much media is having an impact on
identity and relationships now, Yeah,especially when they're growing up on this generation
(37:14):
in this space. And it kindof goes back to what I was saying
that you can create your own echochamber. You are inherently on your four
you pages and your algorithm. Yeah, curating an echo chamber for yourself,
Andrew Hay is essentially like gaining thetrust of young boys. And then I
mean my brother said that ultimately hehad to like part of the reason he
started gaming less and moving to othergames, not Fortnite, because this was
(37:38):
mostly prevalent on games such as Fortnite, which obviously a much younger audience that
which is probably why you were sayingfrom a lot of your interviewees that they
weren't really experiencing it as much becausethat was on a different platform. So
there was like FIFA and called dutyand stuff one that a lot of people
are reference and they're obviously a lotless impressionable than like a group of twelve
(38:00):
year olds. Yeah, so yeah, he kind of like distanced himself from
that, but it really shows howI think it can have a massive impact
definitely, And like also like thewhole thing about him, like creating I
don't really know the ins and outs, but like that Hustlers University thing that
he like made. Have you heardabout that? I remember hearing. I
(38:22):
mean I know someone who I mean, I don't know them well enough,
but I know someone who dropped outof the college they went to and joined
the Hustlers University. I don't knowwhere they are now, had contact with
them, joined Andrew Takes University,And it just shows how like impression of
all this passion is because he's gainedtheir trust, basically got them under his
wing and sort of can manipulate hisideologies into their everyday valleys. I mean,
(38:46):
it's not you know, some peoplecan distinguish the difference between you know
well, like like you were saying, it just depends what your algorithms feeding
you. Yeah, definitely, Andin relating it to like also video games
as well, Like it just showshow kind of blood the online world is.
And like I don't really know,it's quite getting out of it going
(39:07):
on the right lines because it's soeasy to slip in, like casual sexism.
If you see someone getting getting thismassive like following from it and like
people not even well people obviously definitelybatting an eye, but like they're following,
they're following still ridiculously like or Ithink it's like the idea of even
online you can penetrate like stereotypes andstuff. I remember one of the interviewees
(39:30):
was talking about. She was talkingabout and if you're revealed to be a
girl on like a male only orlike a predominantly male game, you're presumes
to be bad at the game,or like they just don't want you cominent
stuff. It's like, oh,you're playing a woman. Yeah. It's
kind of like those ideals stem eitherfrom people's real life onto the online world,
(39:54):
or those views on the online worldpenetrate to your life. I feel
like that quote about like playing likea woman, it's like goes way way
back, like decades ago from whereyou know. It can be like if
a woman's playing the sport, you'replaying like a girl, throwing like a
girl, stuff like that. Soit just shows how like interconnected past the
way women were treated in the pastin like other activities and then into this
(40:16):
like globalized like modernized present world ofwhere video games are heavily used. So
it just shows that it is regressiveand it also maybe provides like for young
boys, obviously the online gaming communitycan provide a sense of safety and security,
and maybe those regressive and traditional valuesprovide that security in a sense.
(40:40):
Yeah, like that's true. Theyfeel connected to like it's just something.
I mean, I am like,it's like that's I don't remember what so
I just said it, but it'sI'm going off on a tangent. But
about religion, people connect to traditionalvalues because it makes them Bruce thinking,
Yeah, that's what I'm trying toYeah, that's a really good point.
(41:02):
Actually, I think that's Yeah.I feel like we need to wrap this
up. So I think we're goingto be listening to fair. I could
talk about us for ages, butI don't know, I go through like
the Grover terms. Yeah, yeah, obviously I was very unstructured. So
but I'd say that the main termthat this focused on is raising validity because
(41:23):
obviously built a close rapport, likeyeah, he seemed to trust it as
well. He was very trusting andhe was very open, open and honest,
and it was kind of like selfreflection. Yeah, that probably was
quite like not just for like you, but probably quite insightful for him to
hear him. Yeah, yeah,definitely. Obviously generalizability is probably quite low.
(41:50):
I guess you could say it's generalizablein the sense that it focuses on
a younger audience, whereas a lotof yours older audience. You can kind
of expand it to different age groups. Um, but yeah, I guess
it wasn't particularly objective. It waskind of just more of an open discussion.
Yeah, so not particually reliable,but definitely like valid insight. I
(42:12):
think the validity line is really important, I guess because I guess, like
I mean with mit and I've justgot a statistic, But because I don't
know the people in the context thing, I can't question them about it.
Further, I can't ask what madethem say that, what led them to
this, like all of that,Whereas I feel like you've got a very
insightful like piece of information from him. Yeah, I think I think it's
(42:35):
very interesting to me. I thinkit's a really nice comparison to what all
of my interview he said. It'skind of the behavior that Harper witnessed online.
I think it really nicely rounds itup to kind of got different age
ranges, and it seems to bethe same kind of values carrying through the
values for behavior being carried through nomatter what age you are. Yeah,
(42:55):
it's interesting to see how like inthe future this will like progress or like
what will or reagress it even likeyou mean hopefully regression, like want The
last interview I interviewed in them,including in this study, said that she
felt that takes Rise meant that peoplecalling out misogyny. Yeah, because it's
(43:15):
kind of like all I mean withhis new conviction, you can see how
how it turns out for people outhow deep rooted misogyny can be. Yeah,
so it kind of influences people tocall out sexcessitudes and sexist behavior,
which is really good. It's definitelygood. But you can't agree, you
just haven't. It could also encourageit, yeah, exactly, And like
if you want to be able tochange, like to be able to change
(43:37):
so many people's opinions, and everyonehas to voice their opinion because if if
you get one comment, like onTikTok saying one like the first comments say
on a video being sexist, youdidn't get a stream of comments after that,
and that just like fuels that people'sbelieves and stuff. But yeah,
I'd say I've said all I meto say, yeah, so should we?
So what was our inial question?Our initial question was how aggressive misogynistic
(44:00):
values presented in the gaming world.And I think that they are presented like
I would say that over time,although the way that people may have come
about saying these things has changed.Obviously in the nineteen fifties or seventeen,
commenting on you weren't commenting on TikTok'sbut maybe you were, like when you
(44:21):
found out that this space game thatwas released in ninety seventy one was released,
you might I don't know, fromin the casual she's got nice boobs
or something. I don't know,the locker room trap exactly exactly. I
like you gave us like an example. Yeah, I don't know if,
I don't know if I'm allowed to, I don't know. Well, I'm
proud, I'm a swarm for fortyminutes. I'm so proud of you.
(44:42):
Thank you. Sorry, that makesme sound like I've got like a terrible
like I've got a bad range oflike vocabuy, I just like I don't
know. I just okay, NoI even know myself much anyway. No,
I feel like the way that Iturn around the way that aggressive misogynistic
values are presented, I feel likeit really from what I found out,
it depends of what speed you're inworld, which has got some hope that
(45:07):
you may just not encounter it atall. But that could mean you just
get really lucky and get into areally nice world or that you've chosen.
I'm not going to go there becausethat's really misogionistic. I'm going to limit
myself to this space. Yeah,so I do not have to endure sexism
on the daily or everything in timeof play. So I feel like you
can actively remove yourself from the situations. But I would also argue that it's
(45:31):
still very prominent, easier to becomeinvolved and easy to gradually kind of slip
into that world. Exactly. I'veseen with many young gamers. I think
the perception that you know, there'sa misogyny or it's not really that,
but an online gaming is it's incorrect, it's incorrect, it's a flawed point
(45:51):
of view. Yeah, definitely,I think it's it's differ a limited perception
exactly, and I guess you couldliteral like, there's a part it's fine,
it's okay, it's giving us alittle morale boots, it's like last
leg the podcast. But yeah,I mean, I guess you could say
that we're being like we could beseen as objective because we're all woman teenage
(46:15):
girls. But I mean, fromour point of view, if we're seeing
sexism in society, then it's obviouslyan issue. Even if it's like a
minority of people showing sex statues,it's still very much presents. It's still
an issue, no matter it's moreJessica, what do you think? I
mean, Yeah, I agree witheverything that's been said. I think the
idea of kind of maybe some ofyour interviewees maybe avoiding the misogyny, but
(46:39):
then also by just saying that,oh, I think these values should be
equal, it's kind of taking anattitude of avoidance to the issue of feminism
and not really actually taking a reflectiveview of what's actually going on exactly.
They're playing riddle kicks. I haveno idea. Oh, okay to pause
(47:05):
this, Okay, I know whatI think we could say we should leave
at that. I remember when Ilike when me and just walking out for
I was like, yeah, welike ten minutes when we're into it,
like roughly ten minutes for fifty minuteslater. I mean, because we also
like took a break and also yedidn't He's going to be like listening to
this sort of like the sped upversion, two times version. We're very
interesting people. I hope, yeah, hopefully listens. Hopefully you enjoyed.
(47:29):
Yeah, if you, if you'vegot this bar, then thank you so
much. And I hope you enjoyedour research and found it interesting and sightful.
Oh great minds think alike. Anyway, see you later. Thank you
for listening. If you are aregular listener to The Sociology Show, then
(47:50):
you could help with the cost ofpromoting and hosting the podcast. If you
can spare even a small amount,then you can donate on the gofund me
dot com website by search for theSociology Show. There is no obligation,
of course, and all future downloadswill continue to be free. A huge
thank you to all those that havealready donated. Your kind gesture will help
to continue keep the show going andgrowing. Best wishes and keep enjoying the
(48:15):
show. Thank you for taking thetime to listen to the podcast. If
you would like to contact the showor be interviewed, then please email The
Sociology Show Podcast at gmail dot com.
Hi, You're listening to a studentfocused episode of the Sociology Show podcast.
If you're studying the subject at gcsA level, foundation degree or any other
discipline, then this podcast could beof help to you. If you have
a question for the show, thenyou can email the Sociology Show podcasts the
Gmail dot com and one of theteachers, lecturers, examiners, or experts
(00:28):
will answer your question for you.You can sponsor the show on the go
fund me page and subscribe on allthe usual podcast platforms. If you're going
to class, going to the gym, or just chilling, put your headphones
in and let's be Sociology gets together. Ah, Hello and welcome to the
(00:49):
Sociology Show podcast. This is astudent takeover episode, and the takeover is
actually from my own students from BasficCollege in Brighton Hove down on the south
coast of England. And three ofmy students were very interested in sexism in
video games and misogyny in video games. They're inspired by some research by Anita
Sarkeesian and they wanted to carry outtheir own research to see if they found
(01:12):
similar findings in terms of how muchmisogyny is out there. How sexist the
video games are and the types oflanguage and interactions people use when they're playing
online video games in particular. Sothe three students conducted this research are Harper
Winsleor, Jessica Thornton, and LaylaMiller Jones. I asked them to put
together a podcast. I was reallyimpressed with the depth and knowledge here,
(01:33):
and also they had a little bitof humor in there as well, and
it's a really fantastic piece of research. So without further ado, let's go
over to listen to sexum in VideoGames with Harper, Jessica and Layla Enjoy
Hello, Oh my god, HeyHi. So I'm Halper, I'm Jeff
I am Layla, and our sociologypresentation in the form of the podcast.
(01:56):
Yeah, we contemplated in a video, but I came freshman. You won't
find yourself. Don't mind yourself,Harper looking gorgeous, gorgeous. Stop.
Yeah. So basically we are doingso using the secondary data from Sarkeesia.
Oh my god, I'm so sorry. We are doing we are looking at
(02:20):
the culture of online gaming and theportrayal of femininity and masculinity in the video
game world. And I basically usethis to form our research question, which
is how our regressive misogynistic values presentedin the gaming world. Yeah, yeah,
I guess the hypothesis were kind ofthe mesogynistic attitudes were still very present
in the gaming world as they havealways been, and we're kind of I
(02:43):
guess not yeah, not even tryingto prove it, but just exactly what
that is. Look at you go, halfer um. So me and Jess
both looks at some articles and likevideos that Sarcasian did and mine was about
tropes versus women in video games,and she pointed out which I thought was
(03:06):
actually like it sort of shows likeit traces back to where the first like
signs of objectification of women. Whatwas when the first video game appeared in
a pinball arcade and it's called computerSpace was released in nineteen seventy one.
I believe I think that's what yousaid last. Yeah, the objective of
(03:29):
the game was very simple. Itwas a rocket that was shooting down pixelated
sources. We obviously nothing to dowith women at this stage of video games.
However, they the company advertised theirgame with women stood next to like
the arcade machines wearing revealing clothes whichobviously is it seems to be the first
(03:53):
way that women were especially things.It was the first online game, it
was already using women's sexually like beingwomen being sexualized to advertise it, and
it was sort of unnecessary because it'sgot enough game. It just seemed to
obviously the aim was to capture themale gaze, particularly probably young teenage boys.
(04:13):
So I wonder if that kind ofmaybe influenced the idea that like online
gaming is more of a male space, and yeah, idea maybe, Yeah,
yeah, definitely that's and obviously thisgame being released what like over fifty
years going now, it's from rightthe scarbas the traditional values have just been
kept and carried through to Ja.Yeah, no exactly, So I guess
(04:36):
that's what like why we became interestedwas because you can obviously clearly tell that
this hasn't although it might have changedbased on video games evolving, the like
principles are still the same that behindit. So yeah, and as well,
because this topic was influenced by ourtopic three of globalization of globalization,
(04:56):
Yeah, it's interesting to see whatother aspects of globalization can also be seen,
like the misogynistic attitudes kind of inthe dial Yeah, definitely, it's
quite like I mean, I wouldn'tsay it's subtle, but like until you
like sort of scrape underneath the stuff, you don't really notice how by its
I feel like it's quite overlooked sometimes. Yeah, um, soul get onto
(05:17):
what we did for you guys.Overviewed the research by Sarkeesian. Yeah,
okay, so I looked at basicallymore recent examples. Sarkeesian basically found that
the damsel in distress trope has sortof seen a resurgence in recent years.
So the tribe basically provides like aneasy default motivation for male heroes, um
(05:40):
because it allows them to prove theirmasculinity, um and like. As a
result, the game developers have likeexploited images of victimized women and use their
trauma sort of as like a catalystfor the game's plotline, with even like
domestic violence sometimes being presented as likean altruistic app and it can be seen
(06:01):
in like modern games like Call ofDuty and Grand Theft Auto. Oh yeah,
that was one of the ones thatwe did, so I think that
was I think it was even releasedin twenty thirteen or Maine in twenty thirteen,
but Basically, Sarkitian said that theobjective of this game was to buy
a prostitute, use it, andthen kill them to claim your money,
(06:21):
which I think is obviously highly Yeah, I mean I don't I don't particularly
understand it, but I mean whatever, that's like, that's what I do
on my Friday evening is half ohmy bad, sorry on my lifestyle.
Yeah, sorry, it's yeah,it's the lifestyle. Definitely, so my
I didn't because the two girls halfjust obviously did their initial research on Sarkatian,
(06:46):
it was a secondary data. Idid the unstructured interview, which was
primary, our main primary. Yeah, definitely research that we did semi structured.
We had like questions, yeah,semist action, which we enjoyed because
I barking, I mean, yeah, undecided, but it kind of it
(07:10):
allowed us to elaborate with the participantsand get them to explain what we asked.
And also because a lot not alot of us, I didn't have
the biggest understanding that, so itkind of left me went in. Yeah,
we went. I think the bitwe were interested in was the gender
(07:30):
identity and that kind of misogynistic attitude. Yeah, the idea of the whole
gaming world. Really, I letthe gamers and the people that we interviewed
dictate or like open my eyes tothat. I guess. So our sample
was ten people. They were avolunteer sample because we needed people who were
actually interested in online gaming who couldgive us useful information. I guess that
(07:53):
makes it quite high. And theywanted to exactly, and it meant that
what they were saying was pretty truthfuland it wasn't just like a bunch of
people who didn't know what they weretalking about, but also ethical as well.
Yeah, yeah, yes, aten questions, ten people and even
numbers. Yeah, exactly, I'llsummarize a couple of points. Yes,
(08:16):
I guess I've put together or I'vebasically just kind of selected the two most
different interviews or the two most interestinginterviews. So the first person we asked
the question, do you think thatanimality makes people feel more comfortable? And
to say team defensive? We can'tsay it was so ethical. Can we
(08:41):
say if it's a girl or aboy? Or yeah, I think yeah
it was a guy, Okay,And he said that playing on FIFA specifically,
there was a lot of toxic masculinitywithin the community, which you could
argue would scare away women. Althoughthere has been like a new adaptation in
the FIFA world which is very nicewhere women and now added and you can
create a team of both women andmen. I've actually got something. Oh
(09:05):
my god, do you remember metelling you I do remember this way I
finish this? Ye? I meanjust this point. Yeah. Yeah.
So he said there was lots ofmasculinity expressed within FIFA, partly because of
how competitive it was, partly becauseit had like a nature of toxic masculinity.
But I feel like, if that'ssuch a good example of there are
(09:28):
games which literally have toxic masculinity embeddedinto the culture. But I've I've never
met a girl who's like, ohyeah, I've an avid FIFA player.
Ye met guys, because it doesn'tseem very like you know. So I
thought that was quite eye opening.But oh my god, just died.
Oh. What I was going tosay was, so I was talking to
(09:48):
I'm quite a shamed to say thathe's my friend down, but I was
talking to my good friend like goodfriends as well, I know, And
I was like, I'm doing I'mconducted. Well, I'm not really conducting,
but I was just wondering if Icould ask some questions to do with
gaming, because he games a lot, like and he said that the presence
of like women in FIFA is pointless, and he said some other stuff as
(10:11):
well. I wish it was onSnapchat, so I should have saved the
messages. Actually that would have beenby the smart money lies. But I'd
like to summarize what he said.And I'm not obviously quoting him, but
he said along the lines of,like, there's no print in having women
in video games because they're doing iton purpose to seem more inclusive, whereas
in actual fact they don't actually care. Sort of thing that directly links onto
(10:33):
what I was about to say.Well, perfect, Oh my god.
Yeah. So the fifth question Iasked in this interview was why didn't there's
an absence of female players in thegaming world. And this guy, the
first, like the first of thetwo people that I selected out of the
ten, basically said the big gamingcompanies don't mark it towards female players because
there's already like a market in anaudience within young male players. There's no
(10:54):
reason they would need to, andbecause like so much of advertising is kind
of towards the male games. Anyways, you think they feel under pressure to
I just I feel I don't feelany pressure to know that I feel.
He just basically saying they don't markit towards too the players, because they've
got a large amount they don't needto pretty much. He also said that
(11:16):
along the lines of I asked aquestion which was do you think the video
against influenced perceptions of women in reallife? And he basically said his friend
didn't really seem to have a separationof online online and in real life,
and so he would set leg womena lot because on so many of the
games there are hyper sexual as womenavatars. So do you think that makes
(11:39):
to like the idea of anorminities?That thought? So, I guess because
some people will say stuff online andnot saying person. Clearly, this person,
his friend can tell the difference.You know. It's like that exactly,
And it's kind of yet all linkingback to like the sexual avatars and
everything like from the first Yeah,so Sarkisian, sorry because somebody died.
(12:05):
I just had it my head.There was that and now I can't break
out. But you're gonna have tothe other like what was the other stuff?
So the second guy who I selectedI always like stuff Stock. I
love him. I don't know actuallyquite who he is, but I just
think he's awesome. He has partof an online group who go to like
(12:28):
gaming tournaments and play amongst each otherlike a following, like formal sort of
thing. I think, so that'sa professional like win money and stuff.
Can't you. I think you winsomething or maybe you just win and that
boosts your popularity. Don't quite know, but it's fine. But basically,
(12:50):
he was really interesting to talk toyou because his perspective was from his small
community, so it kind of showedthat they were like zones within the gaming
world. So he basically said thaton his team it was just people who
he played against who were just decentat the game. And regarding animnity,
(13:11):
he said, you can say whateveryou want in theory. Yeah, being
a white, straight dude, it'snot the biggest deal to me personally.
It's like what they're going to threatenme with quoting him directly here. But
you know, with other demographics I'veseen it, it could be tough.
People would just relentlessly gang up onpeople for the smallest things because then anything
they can get away with it.And I think that links onto for my
(13:33):
research exactly. It's the real riskof animality is that you don't really get
many consequences for what you say,unless it's quite bad that you can't like
sort of well, I mean youcould track it down, but if you
were tracking every sort I mean cyberbully or nine, that there would be
no one left. Also with thatquite true with the anonymous space, it
(13:54):
makes people then more comfortable to saythings in real life as well because they've
had that experience I've already like sayingand starting to move into that territory or
it's kind of like, what's itlike an echo chamber where if you find
like minded people you think, oh, that might be trying. Like that
can translate to real life and narrowsthat well, not exactly, that's very
true because yeah, it's not good. That's the best time I could come
(14:18):
up say like monotonal as well,when I saw it's not good. It's
just not good. But yeah,what did the other personally expected? It?
Was it a girl that was Yeah, so I've selected three. Yeah,
there was a first guy who hadthe toxic masculinity friend. Second guy
(14:41):
was part of a team. Yeah, he also for my seventh question,
which was do you see positive aspectsof gender identity? He said that the
fact that people weren't focalizing on genderwas the positive aspect of gender identity.
There was a lot, like inhis world, there was. It was
a lot of it was guild based, so it kind of took the whole
(15:01):
emphasis of gender off of it,which he thought was a really positive and
progressive thing, wasn't it. Itwas even Haaraway or Robertson that did that
in the in the globalization unit,they talked about Harraway, which I guess
is a positive you could take away. But then it's not like that a
load is going to you know,it doesn't change the fact that people are
(15:24):
still going to be like a sorry, a pip just came out of my
mouth. Sorry, later, whatwere you saying? It's like, oh,
you know what, I'm not forMy trainer thought, like, you
know what, So let me justgo right back to the beginning. Let's
(15:46):
cut to the chase head. Sowhat I am trying to conclude is that
although a woman can hide behind orwas he the screen and have like a
gender neutral name or like a namethat doesn't suggest anything about her gender,
she still she might still hear stuff, so it shows that you know,
you could not partake in it andlike not have to show that you're a
(16:10):
woman. But if if there's menon like playing and they're being you know,
misogynistic, then it's still happening.Basically the fact that they have to
hide it as well, it justgoes exactly so that someone who have not
included their interview in My three Chosenone. She spoke about the fact that
on the online gaming world, ifyou do show agenda as a girl,
(16:32):
you're either like a tomboy girl doesn'treally associate herself with femininity or an e
girl who's hyper feminine, and there'snot really much in between going on.
You're one of the guys or you'rea plane female gays Like how you benefit
men versus how it's like benefits.Yeah, okay, so like you know,
you've now got these two categories thatyou know you can't like transcend.
(16:55):
You're either one or the other.Yea, you can game, but if
you're a tomboy and one of theguys or a egirls, and either way
you're still going to face abuse forboth of them exactly. Anyway, Yeah,
for my third for my third participantor I guess interviewee. They said
that, So I asked the question, do you think there's an answerence to
(17:18):
female players in the gaming world,And their answer to this was, I
think some games are more predominantly female, but for predominantly male games, they
don't want female players in them,so they try to rate them so the
plays so that they therefore create femalezones and males. Was a really interesting
way of putting it, like peoplein each zone are not going to recognize
(17:40):
the opposite side, or maybe inthe male zone, you're just going to
think, oh, no female playsthis game because they are actively avoiding or
the really basic hosogronistic games. Also, they're in like a tights or circle
if if you're thinking about like regressivevalues and going back to traditional ways,
sort of the separate spheres for menand women. It's kind of like reminis
sint of like nineteen fifties, likeoh my god, domestic sperience kind of
(18:03):
desire. Ye, look at youguys, Oh my gosh, right,
do you have what else? Like? Yeah? Point for the eighth question,
I asked, I think gee,I asked us to everyone and most
people said, So I said,what do you think the roles of men
and women are or should be inthe online gaming world. Most people just
said equity. Everyone should just beequal. There shouldn't be a kind of
(18:27):
dislike there shouldn't just be this disportionexactly. That's what I'm looking for.
But my interview said everyone should geta chance play the game they want,
and the female players should get toenjoy a male space, whereas right now
she does not feel there was thatkind of equality, which I thought was
really interesting, especially from a female'sperspective, because the other people were kind
(18:48):
of like, yeah, equity anddidn't really see like they didn't point out
as much misogynistic attitudes although they wereoccupying male spaces, whereas I feel if
you're not, it's more visible yea. And relating to the what was it
recessive or aggressive? So for mylast question that I asked everyone, I
(19:10):
was how do you I asked,how do you think that the rise of
Andrew Tato has influenced attitudes? Thisis in the game, and so the
first person I asked said, becauseTate is influencing younger people, and younger
people still play video games, ittherefore makes the online world even more toxic
(19:30):
and could discourage women. The secondperson I asked actually said, Andrew Tat
is just ananimate, is just ananomaly, and he has an impact,
but any younger people who he didn'tplay with. So my second person he
was part of the online gaming team, Oh yeah, so he I don't
think UM spoke to or kind ofcame to contact with a lot of younger
(19:52):
players. So it proves that whatside the online gaming world occupy us.
And my asked participant who was agirl I thought I put out? She
said that she felt that Tate hadhad had a big impact in real life
than the gaming world, and said, yeah, there have always been sogynistic
(20:14):
attitude, but she argued that likeTate's kind of being on the side of
social media of pointing out like thathis actions were wrong. She basically said
that, ever, since because he'sso extreme, people began calling out my
sogynist behavior, which she said,like, that's a real big positives.
You said, shall I go throughmy m what's called grovern? Now?
(20:40):
Yeah? I said that my generalizabilitywas lower because we only interviewed a small
age range. However, the peoplethat we interviewed had kind of played amongst
people of many different age ranges.So although we only had access to people
within the sixteen to eighteen age range, because they'd interacted with people from all
(21:02):
ages, you can kind of arguethat their answers could be higher. In
generalizability, I'd argue our representativeness waslow because our sample was volunteer. Yeah,
a volunteer sample. We wanted thatthey wanted to do it there before
we're going to be enthusiastic. Yes, exactly. We had a range of
(21:22):
gender identities, which I think,Yeah, it was higher. Reliability was
higher because we recorded that. Irecorded all of the interviews so he could
replicate it, and I wrote downall of my questions. Objectivity I was
reflected throughout and transferred directly from theaudio document onto my piece of paper.
I guess I'm referring back exactly whatthey said and didn't cherry pick. Validity
(21:47):
was high Bill Report, and Ifeel that what they told us was truthful.
Yeah, I think it was veryinsightful, especially since we didn't going
into this week. I think thatalso makes it quite high a objectivity because
we didn't know, like what whatwas actually going on, what was actually
happening, like our values couldn't reallywe didn't have like second exactly, yeah,
because we didn't have any we likedat during which I think, which
(22:11):
was so good. Yeah, Iloved it. And our ethics were high.
No deception because I advertised who wouldlike to be Interviet sociologies. Yeah,
we didn't. We didn't cause ita harm far as I'm aware.
No one has emailed me like sayingthat I'm suing you. So that's great,
and they we didn't. It wasn'tan invasion of privacy because they signed
(22:33):
up for it. Yeah, soI reckon. I think that in terms
of ethics was probably what was veryhigh. I think, so it was
validited. What would you which onewould you want to improve after go over
terms? Do you know? Ithink if we would do it again,
the generalized ability and representativeness, itwould be so interesting to interview a wider
range of people. Yeah, Ithink even for us our study in the
future, but also just for us, just for us, just for us
(22:56):
again for us. Okay, Soafter Lena did her like main primary research,
which is sort of like the bodyof our works, like what we
wanted to find out, and likeI guess I did, like really go
in depth about the progressive misogynistic values. I decided to do some content analysis
(23:17):
on TikTok and jess, what didyou do well, I sort of did.
I was originally going to do participantobservation, but that plan kind of
fell through, so I did sortof an unstructured interview conversation conversational type thing.
Yeah, with my step brother,he's like very into the gaming world,
(23:37):
and he's twelve, and he's verylike immersing the world when my gaming,
and he's experienced a lot of thelike misogyny that we've been talking about.
And yeah, I think it's areally imprabling angle to take it from
because obviously he's twelve years old.He's twelve. A lot of like even
if you go on to like theinterweb and the social media of like clips
of people gaming, even a lotof them like older people. So I
(24:00):
think from like a younger person's perspective, who's kind of views being shaped shaped
not to talk about like that,but do you think that like perhaps online
gaming will sort of shape perspectives thathe has a woman? I think it's
really dangerous and really scary actually thatwe decided I decided to do content analysis
(24:22):
on TikTok because TikTok was the platformthat amplified Andrew Tat's sort of presence in
society, which obviously for a coupleof was it moms maybe a couple of
weeks months, gained a lot ofattention, like of media attention. Obviously
he's you know, and then thatmeans that his arrest and staff was very
you know, publified. Yeah.But what I decided to do was look
(24:47):
in to female gamers on TikTok byliterally just typing that into the such box
to see what came up. Andthe first three relevant videos were the ones
where it was like female gamers weresat with their like head sets one and
whatever, and they were all like, I think two of the videos were
the women started talking obviously for thefirst time in this game, and there
(25:08):
had been a group of men,and it was both and then both videos
it showed the responses of the men, which were obviously not very nice.
And then the other one was justa girl sat down gaming like just like
just talking behind like what she wasdoing. And I decided to use for
each of the videos. I scrolledthrough the first twenty comments and from there
(25:30):
I picked out which ones were seemedlike negative, misogynistically like driven effectively,
and then I put it into thestatistic that one out of six of the
comments that I read were misogynistically motivated, which obviously is you know, even
in the majority seemed not. Andit's out of the top twenty as well,
So those are the most liked andthe most were definitely. So I
(25:52):
think even though you know, amajority at one six is not obviously a
big sort of I don't know ifit he detect scrolling and then more would
come up. I said, it'slike, who has interacted with that?
Yeah, up to the top,Yeah, people that have liked it,
like replied to those comments. Ididn't go through all the replies and stuff
because that would take a whole lotlonger, but you would not be here.
(26:14):
I would not be here to tellthe tale. But yeah, so
even though it's like, even thoughmost of the comments were supportive, it's
almost like, you know, thefact that there were comments carrying these attitudes
quite a lot once it feels alot to be fair, but obviously it's
way under half. But I thinkthat the fact that there were sexist statues
(26:36):
just present anyway should not be likedeemed like sort of an anomaly. I
think it should be. You know, these this minority group of people who
were being misogynistic, they need tobe addressed and obviously educated about it.
But I'm going to quickly read outa few of the stuff that a couple
of the comments that I noted down, which was for context. Obviously,
(26:59):
this was on the video of afemale gamer who posted the video of the
boys behaving sexistly towards her. Sofirst comment that I saw was quite proud
of that community, even though I'mnot part of it, which I thought
was a bit of a mixed message. But it just seems a bit partoynists,
but very yeah, you know,good for them, like yeah,
(27:22):
yeah, exactly, the boys tryingto make it out that he's I don't
know, not a misogynist, butI think that's you know. Then the
next one said just said, myboys, we've got w homie, which
just means like they're supporting what thisquote unquote home you said. Then we've
got W players, Then we've gotclassic, we've got real stigma. That's
(27:45):
why we love CS which I thinkwas the name of the game or like
the platform whatever than they were onw community. And this one I thought
was particularly interesting because it was quiteinvalidating, but it said it's like,
it's like this for everybody, notjust for you. So I thought that
was, you know, either that'sfrom like a female player, which is
(28:07):
which also shows that misogynistic attitudes arestill very right within the gaming community,
or it's from someone who also hasexperience abuse, which would be there's other
demographics you are also experiencing abuse.Either way, it's got different connotations,
both of which, but either wayit's not good. And then the last
one was pick me, so effectivelythat's feeding back into what you said about
a girl being like one of thegirls boys sort of thing. So yeah,
(28:30):
you can't play without being deemed youknow, not a girl basically or
hypersexualist exactly. And I just thought, you know, it's very apparently it's
happening. And I think also thefact that people are, you know,
commenting the stuff, that means thatthey're like happy to publicly share their opinions,
so even like and then also I'dsay that it's like it means that
(28:52):
for the people that choose not tocomment, how many of these people are
carrying the same views and just don'tcomment. So for the small group of
people that do comment it and doshare opinions, you know, there's like
a whole majority of other people whohave the same opinions, but haven't you
know, kind of shows how thelines between like the online world and reality
start to become blurred because they're nowsaying that publicly and it's no longer anonymous.
(29:17):
Yeah. Yeah, because also theuser names were like people's full names
as well. I mean I didn'tfind it doubt on the names, but
because I would not share it,I got to stick to the ethics exactly.
But I mean, but you canfind out about people just why they're
using names. And also I thinkas well, like although to remain ethical
we didn't name names, I thinkthat um it technically shouldn't. Like it's
(29:41):
not really in uninformed consent or whatever, like, yeah, it's not necessary
because then they're happy for people tosee it and share it anyway. Surely,
Yeah, Like clearly they like Imean, maybe they only have sub
colleciously thought about it. But likeyou know, when you go to comment
something, you read out there foreverybody to see, and there's like digital
(30:03):
footprint all of that stuff, whichyou know, so I'd argue we didn't
cross in the ethical bound I don'tthink we crossed everyical boundaries. I mean,
it wasn't an invasion of privacy whatsoever, informed consent. I mean,
we're sharing their comments that they've sharedto a whole platform of like people are
potentially millions of people. Yeah.Yeah, And then wasn't deceptive and no
(30:29):
harm to the participants because we haven'tnamed them. And then about the other
graver terms, I said that itwas it was low in reliability. Don't
worry, I've got here, don'tyou worry, because the nature of TikTok
is that there's constant updates and likechanges in the algorithm system, which means
that if another sociologist was to carryout on their own device and search the
exact same vid eye search into thesearch, but they probably wouldn't be able
(30:52):
to find the exact same videos withthe exact same comments at the top exactly.
I also said that in terms ofobjectivity, my opinions didn't influence,
like, you know, the results, because I qualied I literally copied and
paste of what was said. Youknow, there was no I mean,
obviously I just picked out the commentsthat seemed to show it was all was
(31:14):
from the top twenty from the top, tive, and then validity. I
said that it's not exactly high andvalidity because if everyone commented their opinions,
then it would be truthful. Butbecause this is only you know, a
small group of people that are commentingtheir opinions, it's quite difficult to understand
everybody's like reflective of that and stuff. And in terms of like generalizedability and
(31:40):
representativeness, wasn't overly but I thinkin comparison to using qualitative data, obviously
I did get like a bigger Yeah, I got you know, sixty people,
predumably sixty different people as well.I'm pretty sure i'd like to see
any repeated names. So sixty differentpeople's opinions seems you know, it shows
patterns, patterns and trans patterns,and we love patterns and trail. It's
(32:01):
kind of like you can do allyour research and to these are the statistics
for this, this and that,but you've got people in real life actively
being misogynistic and going out of theirway to do so, and then have
pulled up like an average of that. Yeah, which is so I think,
Yeah, it's yeah, the statistics, I guess show statistics don't lie,
(32:22):
they do not lie. But whatlinking back to the whole thing about
how this could be influenced by AndrewTables these videos were. When I looked
at the dates, they were allwithin the last I want to say,
six months, it was like fiveor six months. It was since the
beginning of the shiar definitely. Yeah, So I mean, I don't know
if that's reflective of Andrew Tates beingin the picture, having his values like
(32:45):
posted online or whatever, but Imean it could be. It's so hard
to like tell if it wasn't wasn'tlike it's like because it was all on
social media. All of social mediais intertwined anyways. Yeah, Like,
I guess you can think of differentcommunities kind of accessing the same kind of
information not infiltrating it. It's niceto think that something on social media would
(33:07):
not infiltrate the online world, Butyou just don't know exactly, So that's
it's hard to tell. But Imean, we could potentially put it out
there that Andrew Tate had influence maybeone of these comments at least exactly.
But yeah, and then you spokequite a lot about Andrew Table. Okay,
yeah, so that kind of linksto the sort of like unstructured interview
(33:29):
slash conversation I had with my brother. So he's only twelve of us mentioned
before, and he was like veryinvolved in the online gaming world, specifically
when Andrew Tape was popular, andhe noticed like a significant like almost like
a direct correlation between Andrew Tait's popularityand how much misogyny was present sort of
(33:52):
online I mean on chats kind ofwith strangers, but also perhaps amongst his
friends group as well. It wasvery comical and obviously particularly in the online
gaming world. So basically what hewas saying was that there was some like
quite a lot of casual like traditionalmistogeny present, so just comments like you
(34:16):
know, make me a satmwage orlike go back to the kitchen, like
not even casual, actually blatantly sexistcomments. I guess I'm non original used
in a casual setting, but notyet casual. But then it also got
more extreme. U not amongst hisfriends, but amongst strangers. He even
(34:37):
heard some like threats of sexual harassment, which obviously for a twelve year old
boy, that is very influential.I mean, it's quite interesting. If
you think about it links back tothe first guy that I interviewed. He
was talking about he got into gamingwhen he was like seven or eight.
Yeah, and so it's so interesting, like like it was I think brought
(34:59):
up a lot on social media whenat like the downside of Andrew Tape was
that a lot of his following wasyoung men. Yeah, and they're so
influential that it's kind of it's sointeresting that your brother. Yeah, it's
good that he was able to recognizethat's that's wrong. At first they didn't,
so it's very It did definitely havean impression on him. He essentially
(35:22):
on his algorithm on his TikTok fewpage was obviously very different to what people
like us would have been. Andthe clips he was seeing of Andrew Tape
were more kind of like started offas like motivational content, trying to like
inspire young boys. Obviously that wasmasked to be like masking something very bad.
Yeah, but he saw it askind of motivational, and he saw
(35:44):
stuff about Andrew Tape donating to charities. Yeah, it's so easy to like
manipulate certain facts because you could saythat anyone has done any like bad person
has done a good thing, andthey can just like over amplify this good
deed and completely like block out allthe bad stuff. Because you were saying
about how like, you know,obviously the motivational stuff is like he's telling
them not to smoke, not toyeah, stuff like this, which seems
(36:07):
on surface from a good perspective,it seems quite innocent as well. That's
the kind of stuff that you wouldget taught in schools. Yeah, exactly,
so it seems quite authentic as well. Yeah, kind of almost a
bit of tenalistic. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, that's like almost like a
father figure for a lot of youngboys, which kind of Yeah. And
then as the misogyny starts to slipin, he might get like the occasional
(36:30):
video with a casual fro away comment, but he wasn't getting the serious,
like harmful misogynistic videos that I wouldhave been seeing half for a Laila,
So it kind of, yeah,began to influence his mindset. Um,
I mean probably to the point wherehe was saying misogynistic things. I mean,
(36:50):
obviously it's hard for me to know, and it doesn't make him necessarily
the bad person because this is whathe's you know, been and that's that
kind of shows how much of animpression the media can have, and like
obviously with the globalization topic, likehow much media is having an impact on
identity and relationships now, Yeah,especially when they're growing up on this generation
(37:14):
in this space. And it kindof goes back to what I was saying
that you can create your own echochamber. You are inherently on your four
you pages and your algorithm. Yeah, curating an echo chamber for yourself,
Andrew Hay is essentially like gaining thetrust of young boys. And then I
mean my brother said that ultimately hehad to like part of the reason he
started gaming less and moving to othergames, not Fortnite, because this was
(37:38):
mostly prevalent on games such as Fortnite, which obviously a much younger audience that
which is probably why you were sayingfrom a lot of your interviewees that they
weren't really experiencing it as much becausethat was on a different platform. So
there was like FIFA and called dutyand stuff one that a lot of people
are reference and they're obviously a lotless impressionable than like a group of twelve
(38:00):
year olds. Yeah, so yeah, he kind of like distanced himself from
that, but it really shows howI think it can have a massive impact
definitely, And like also like thewhole thing about him, like creating I
don't really know the ins and outs, but like that Hustlers University thing that
he like made. Have you heardabout that? I remember hearing. I
(38:22):
mean I know someone who I mean, I don't know them well enough,
but I know someone who dropped outof the college they went to and joined
the Hustlers University. I don't knowwhere they are now, had contact with
them, joined Andrew Takes University,And it just shows how like impression of
all this passion is because he's gainedtheir trust, basically got them under his
wing and sort of can manipulate hisideologies into their everyday valleys. I mean,
(38:46):
it's not you know, some peoplecan distinguish the difference between you know
well, like like you were saying, it just depends what your algorithms feeding
you. Yeah, definitely, Andin relating it to like also video games
as well, Like it just showshow kind of blood the online world is.
And like I don't really know,it's quite getting out of it going
(39:07):
on the right lines because it's soeasy to slip in, like casual sexism.
If you see someone getting getting thismassive like following from it and like
people not even well people obviously definitelybatting an eye, but like they're following,
they're following still ridiculously like or Ithink it's like the idea of even
online you can penetrate like stereotypes andstuff. I remember one of the interviewees
(39:30):
was talking about. She was talkingabout and if you're revealed to be a
girl on like a male only orlike a predominantly male game, you're presumes
to be bad at the game,or like they just don't want you cominent
stuff. It's like, oh,you're playing a woman. Yeah. It's
kind of like those ideals stem eitherfrom people's real life onto the online world,
(39:54):
or those views on the online worldpenetrate to your life. I feel
like that quote about like playing likea woman, it's like goes way way
back, like decades ago from whereyou know. It can be like if
a woman's playing the sport, you'replaying like a girl, throwing like a
girl, stuff like that. Soit just shows how like interconnected past the
way women were treated in the pastin like other activities and then into this
(40:16):
like globalized like modernized present world ofwhere video games are heavily used. So
it just shows that it is regressiveand it also maybe provides like for young
boys, obviously the online gaming communitycan provide a sense of safety and security,
and maybe those regressive and traditional valuesprovide that security in a sense.
(40:40):
Yeah, like that's true. Theyfeel connected to like it's just something.
I mean, I am like,it's like that's I don't remember what so
I just said it, but it'sI'm going off on a tangent. But
about religion, people connect to traditionalvalues because it makes them Bruce thinking,
Yeah, that's what I'm trying toYeah, that's a really good point.
(41:02):
Actually, I think that's Yeah.I feel like we need to wrap this
up. So I think we're goingto be listening to fair. I could
talk about us for ages, butI don't know, I go through like
the Grover terms. Yeah, yeah, obviously I was very unstructured. So
but I'd say that the main termthat this focused on is raising validity because
(41:23):
obviously built a close rapport, likeyeah, he seemed to trust it as
well. He was very trusting andhe was very open, open and honest,
and it was kind of like selfreflection. Yeah, that probably was
quite like not just for like you, but probably quite insightful for him to
hear him. Yeah, yeah,definitely. Obviously generalizability is probably quite low.
(41:50):
I guess you could say it's generalizablein the sense that it focuses on
a younger audience, whereas a lotof yours older audience. You can kind
of expand it to different age groups. Um, but yeah, I guess
it wasn't particularly objective. It waskind of just more of an open discussion.
Yeah, so not particually reliable,but definitely like valid insight. I
(42:12):
think the validity line is really important, I guess because I guess, like
I mean with mit and I've justgot a statistic, But because I don't
know the people in the context thing, I can't question them about it.
Further, I can't ask what madethem say that, what led them to
this, like all of that,Whereas I feel like you've got a very
insightful like piece of information from him. Yeah, I think I think it's
(42:35):
very interesting to me. I thinkit's a really nice comparison to what all
of my interview he said. It'skind of the behavior that Harper witnessed online.
I think it really nicely rounds itup to kind of got different age
ranges, and it seems to bethe same kind of values carrying through the
values for behavior being carried through nomatter what age you are. Yeah,
(42:55):
it's interesting to see how like inthe future this will like progress or like
what will or reagress it even likeyou mean hopefully regression, like want The
last interview I interviewed in them,including in this study, said that she
felt that takes Rise meant that peoplecalling out misogyny. Yeah, because it's
(43:15):
kind of like all I mean withhis new conviction, you can see how
how it turns out for people outhow deep rooted misogyny can be. Yeah,
so it kind of influences people tocall out sexcessitudes and sexist behavior,
which is really good. It's definitelygood. But you can't agree, you
just haven't. It could also encourageit, yeah, exactly, And like
if you want to be able tochange, like to be able to change
(43:37):
so many people's opinions, and everyonehas to voice their opinion because if if
you get one comment, like onTikTok saying one like the first comments say
on a video being sexist, youdidn't get a stream of comments after that,
and that just like fuels that people'sbelieves and stuff. But yeah,
I'd say I've said all I meto say, yeah, so should we?
So what was our inial question?Our initial question was how aggressive misogynistic
(44:00):
values presented in the gaming world.And I think that they are presented like
I would say that over time,although the way that people may have come
about saying these things has changed.Obviously in the nineteen fifties or seventeen,
commenting on you weren't commenting on TikTok'sbut maybe you were, like when you
(44:21):
found out that this space game thatwas released in ninety seventy one was released,
you might I don't know, fromin the casual she's got nice boobs
or something. I don't know,the locker room trap exactly exactly. I
like you gave us like an example. Yeah, I don't know if,
I don't know if I'm allowed to, I don't know. Well, I'm
proud, I'm a swarm for fortyminutes. I'm so proud of you.
(44:42):
Thank you. Sorry, that makesme sound like I've got like a terrible
like I've got a bad range oflike vocabuy, I just like I don't
know. I just okay, NoI even know myself much anyway. No,
I feel like the way that Iturn around the way that aggressive misogynistic
values are presented, I feel likeit really from what I found out,
it depends of what speed you're inworld, which has got some hope that
(45:07):
you may just not encounter it atall. But that could mean you just
get really lucky and get into areally nice world or that you've chosen.
I'm not going to go there becausethat's really misogionistic. I'm going to limit
myself to this space. Yeah,so I do not have to endure sexism
on the daily or everything in timeof play. So I feel like you
can actively remove yourself from the situations. But I would also argue that it's
(45:31):
still very prominent, easier to becomeinvolved and easy to gradually kind of slip
into that world. Exactly. I'veseen with many young gamers. I think
the perception that you know, there'sa misogyny or it's not really that,
but an online gaming is it's incorrect, it's incorrect, it's a flawed point
(45:51):
of view. Yeah, definitely,I think it's it's differ a limited perception
exactly, and I guess you couldliteral like, there's a part it's fine,
it's okay, it's giving us alittle morale boots, it's like last
leg the podcast. But yeah,I mean, I guess you could say
that we're being like we could beseen as objective because we're all woman teenage
(46:15):
girls. But I mean, fromour point of view, if we're seeing
sexism in society, then it's obviouslyan issue. Even if it's like a
minority of people showing sex statues,it's still very much presents. It's still
an issue, no matter it's moreJessica, what do you think? I
mean, Yeah, I agree witheverything that's been said. I think the
idea of kind of maybe some ofyour interviewees maybe avoiding the misogyny, but
(46:39):
then also by just saying that,oh, I think these values should be
equal, it's kind of taking anattitude of avoidance to the issue of feminism
and not really actually taking a reflectiveview of what's actually going on exactly.
They're playing riddle kicks. I haveno idea. Oh, okay to pause
(47:05):
this, Okay, I know whatI think we could say we should leave
at that. I remember when Ilike when me and just walking out for
I was like, yeah, welike ten minutes when we're into it,
like roughly ten minutes for fifty minuteslater. I mean, because we also
like took a break and also yedidn't He's going to be like listening to
this sort of like the sped upversion, two times version. We're very
interesting people. I hope, yeah, hopefully listens. Hopefully you enjoyed.
(47:29):
Yeah, if you, if you'vegot this bar, then thank you so
much. And I hope you enjoyedour research and found it interesting and sightful.
Oh great minds think alike. Anyway, see you later. Thank you
for listening. If you are aregular listener to The Sociology Show, then
(47:50):
you could help with the cost ofpromoting and hosting the podcast. If you
can spare even a small amount,then you can donate on the gofund me
dot com website by search for theSociology Show. There is no obligation,
of course, and all future downloadswill continue to be free. A huge
thank you to all those that havealready donated. Your kind gesture will help
to continue keep the show going andgrowing. Best wishes and keep enjoying the
(48:15):
show. Thank you for taking thetime to listen to the podcast. If
you would like to contact the showor be interviewed, then please email The
Sociology Show Podcast at gmail dot com.
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.