November 13, 2024 • 18 mins
Geoffrey D. Calhoun goes live across multiple platforms to break down the divisive Joker: Folie à Deux. In this episode, Geoffrey dives into audience expectations vs. artistic vision, dissecting why the film’s genre-blending of courtroom drama and musical numbers created such polarized reactions. He examines both the missteps and the nuanced layers of character development to explore what really worked—and what left fans frustrated.
Key Takeaways:
Geoffrey shares his appreciation for the film’s deeper character exploration, even if it gets lost amidst the unconventional format. He encourages fans of the podcast to keep exploring new storytelling perspectives and reminds listeners that there’s often more than meets the eye in complex films like Joker: Folie à Deux.Call to Action: If you enjoyed this breakdown and have a film you’d like Geoffrey to analyze, send a message! And don’t forget to explore past episodes of The Successful Screenwriter Podcast for more insights on screenwriting and storytelling.Listener Q&A: Throughout the live session, Geoffrey answers listener questions and provides advice for aspiring screenwriters. If you’d like to see more live analysis episodes, let him know!
Follow Geoffrey on instagram @screenwriterpod
#JokerFolieÀDeux, #FilmAnalysis, #Screenwriting, #MovieReview, #CharacterStudy, #IdentityCrisis, #MusicalFilm, #CourtroomDrama, #ToddPhillips, #JoaquinPhoenix, #LadyGaga, #MovieCritique, #Storytelling, #DelusionInFilm, #AudienceExpectations, #SuccessfulScreenwriter, #FilmBreakdown, #StorytellingTechniques, #CharacterDevelopment, #FilmThemes, #JokerAnalysis
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Key Takeaways:
- Understanding "Folie à Deux": The film’s title translates to a “shared delusion,” a concept that plays out between Arthur Fleck (Joker) and his love interest, Harley Quinn (Lee). Geoffrey discusses how this theme might also reflect the relationship between the director’s vision and the audience’s expectations, which weren’t fully aligned.
- A Shift in Tone: While audiences expected a Taxi Driver-style sequel, director Todd Phillips opted for a lighter approach through courtroom drama, with musical elements that felt unexpected and, for some, mismatched.
- The Rules of a Musical & Why They Matter:
- Character Songs: In traditional musicals, songs are a way for characters to reveal their inner emotions to the audience. Instead, Joker: Folie à Deux uses old Dean Martin songs, which detracts from creating an original inner voice for Arthur.
- "Go Big" Moments: Musicals are known for large, engaging numbers, which this film only lightly touches upon, leading to a disconnect. In key scenes, the absence of elaborate choreography and background involvement makes musical moments feel understated.
- Breaking Musical Conventions: Geoffrey points out that characters acknowledge their singing within the film, an unusual choice for musicals. Lady Gaga’s intentionally off-key performance as Harley adds a raw, almost amateurish quality that challenges the typical musical polish, creating a tonal inconsistency.
- Courtroom Drama & Character Evolution:
- The film ultimately revolves around a courtroom drama, where Arthur struggles with the question, “Who am I?” Each character in his life, from guards to Harley, projects their version of him, pushing Arthur to reclaim his true self.
- Geoffrey relates this theme to his own experience writing a courtroom drama, noting the challenge of maintaining tension and pacing.
- Arthur’s Journey: At the core of the film, Arthur's struggle is about identity and self-acceptance. Spoiler alert: Arthur’s arc reaches a natural conclusion when he finally accepts himself, leading to his death—a choice that sparked further debate among fans.
- Audience Reaction:
- Geoffrey reflects on the tension between audience expectations for Joker’s chaos and the director’s interest in a character-focused exploration. He poses the question: Should filmmakers deliver what fans expect, or tell the story they feel compelled to share?
Geoffrey shares his appreciation for the film’s deeper character exploration, even if it gets lost amidst the unconventional format. He encourages fans of the podcast to keep exploring new storytelling perspectives and reminds listeners that there’s often more than meets the eye in complex films like Joker: Folie à Deux.Call to Action: If you enjoyed this breakdown and have a film you’d like Geoffrey to analyze, send a message! And don’t forget to explore past episodes of The Successful Screenwriter Podcast for more insights on screenwriting and storytelling.Listener Q&A: Throughout the live session, Geoffrey answers listener questions and provides advice for aspiring screenwriters. If you’d like to see more live analysis episodes, let him know!
Follow Geoffrey on instagram @screenwriterpod
#JokerFolieÀDeux, #FilmAnalysis, #Screenwriting, #MovieReview, #CharacterStudy, #IdentityCrisis, #MusicalFilm, #CourtroomDrama, #ToddPhillips, #JoaquinPhoenix, #LadyGaga, #MovieCritique, #Storytelling, #DelusionInFilm, #AudienceExpectations, #SuccessfulScreenwriter, #FilmBreakdown, #StorytellingTechniques, #CharacterDevelopment, #FilmThemes, #JokerAnalysis
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com. Hey,
I'm your host, Jeffrey D. Klhoun, and I'd love it
if you join our community at the Successful Screenwriter dot com.
You'll get access to seminars, workshops, OSCAR nominated screenplays, and
(00:24):
even open writing assignments from producers. Get all the tools,
resources and support you need to launch your screenwriting career
for free. Now onto our show. Okay, we are live. Okay,
so I am going live on multiple platforms at the
(00:44):
same time. But I can get comments, so if you
guys have any questions, feel free to pop in. I
also want to get your thoughts on what we're going
to talk about. We're going to do kind of a
film analysis on Joker Fold you do. Lots of people
ask me to do it. I'm a little late to
the game on this. Obviously the bandwagon's already left on
(01:06):
how people feel about it, but you know, here we are.
My mind is a blaze with all of the things
that were going on in this film, and obviously the
fans really not being happy so much to the point
that you know, I have notes, so all right, so
(01:27):
if you have any comments, feel free to pop them
in the chat there and I will check it out.
But let's dive into my film analysis on joker fol
you do if anybody is new to the podcast or
is new to my Instagram. I am a screenwriter. I
am option and produced. I have film films on television.
I have films on TV. So those are my qualifications.
(01:49):
I've been doing this for about twenty years. When I
do these film analysis, I don't like to just do
a review, like I don't believe in movie reviews. I
don't think they give you what you really need. I
feel movie reviews are exceptionally opinionated, and I like to
break down why a film is working, why a film
(02:10):
isn't working, and kind of how it's investing the audience
or losing the audience. I always love the quote those
who can't criticize, and that's not who I am. I
am somebody who makes films. So let's just kind of
talk about what is going on in Jokeerfolio do and
see if we can kind of puel away the onion
(02:30):
on why we were losing the audience and if anything
was working, why it was working okay. So joker folio
do folly do essentially means a delusion shared amongst two people,
and in this case it would be obviously between Arthur
Fleck and who was Harley Quinn but goes by Lee
(02:50):
in the film, his love interest. There's their delusion. It's
arguably said that it could also be a delusion between
the director and the audience at this point, considering how
much the audience did not enjoy the second film. Looking
at it right now, it's got a thirty two percent
on Rotten Tomatoes, which is quite low. You know, Expectations
(03:12):
for the film were more like Taxi Driver, like a
sequel to Taxi Driver, and instead he kind of presented
this lighthearted, I don't want to say lighthearted. He presented
this lighter tone through a court drama which is still
character centered, but it's not going as deep and as
dark as as I guess the fans were expecting it
(03:35):
to do. Why I think it started to lose the
audience is when you are doing a musical, there are
like quote rules to the musicals, and I'll walk you
through a few of those and why musicals, what their
rules are and why they work and how joker foll
(03:58):
you do. Was is not utilizing these these quote rules
to the expectations of a musical that it would be
all right. So, when you're doing a musical, like the
first big real rule of a musical is the songs.
When the characters break out into songs, it is reflecting
(04:20):
their inner thoughts, it is reflecting their owner emotions, and
it's not something that is known to be happening within
the world itself. So I like a girl, she doesn't
like the boy. He breaks into a song about how
he's interested in her. She breaks out into song and
about how she's torn and doesn't like him. But that's
really us hearing their inner monologue, right, It's us hearing
(04:43):
their internal conflict displayed out for the audience, Which is
why musicals are so big on a stage play because
it's verbal, right, it's not really showy. Now they're doing that.
But the songs are not original songs, right, They are
old Dean Martin songs there, They're not originals. There are
(05:07):
songs that are sort of interesting, are song that you'd like.
I think I've heard that before, but I'm not familiar
with it. That kind of pulls away from the originality
of what is going inside of Arthur's mind if he's
just kind of singing old show tunes. So right away
you start to lose it a little bit right there,
start to lose little bit of the thread the other thing,
(05:29):
and I think of a specific scene, so I will
do a few spoilers here, guys, but there's a specific
scene of a musical that popped out where it was like, Okay,
this isn't going as big as it should be, because
like the second rule of musicals is that the musical
numbers go big, right Their whole point is to really
(05:49):
build up and amplify those big moments they are over
the top because it's a musical, right. Well, the music
component to this film is very low key. It's very contained.
You know. Typically with the musical, you know, you've got
the lead breaking into song, you've got the love interest,
(06:10):
the heart plot breaking into song, and then everybody around
them gets involved, huge dance numbers and all of this.
We don't really have any of that. It's very subdued,
and in so doing, it's like it's almost a musical,
but it's not. It's like peppering a musical on there.
But the problem is you either do it or you don't,
(06:31):
and so I think that's one of the reasons why
you can start to kind of lose the audience there
beyond what the expectations were typically with these musical components.
And I'm going to move beyond that. I just want
to give you guys some of the rules so that
we kind of know what's going on. And one of
the reasons why it wasn't quote a musical because I
really don't consider this a musical. I think it has
(06:53):
musical flavorings, but it doesn't hit any of the notes
that you would need for musical. Like the songs are
supposed to drive the story forward, and on occasion it
does that, but again, when you're just recycling old songs,
it's kind of difficult to drive the story forward that way.
And thinking about that one scene, it is the breakout
(07:15):
scene where Lee and Arthur are trying to escape and
they are singing, right, and they having this musical number
where they're dancing and they're dodging spotlights to kind of
break out. Typically, you would have everyone involved in that scene, right,
You'd have the journalists who are taking pictures through the gates,
you would have the police, everybody wouldn't be involved in
(07:38):
this potentially big musical number, where instead it's just Arthur
and Lee just kind of singing to each other and escaping.
And here's the part that gets different that you're never
really going to see in a musical before. Is everybody
acknowledges that they're singing. That's the part that threw me off.
(07:59):
The cars talk about the fact that they were singing
to each other as escaping. This is not something that
is acknowledged within the musical world, which is why I
think Todd Phillips says, hey, this isn't musical. Well, it's
not because it's not following any of the rules. So
the fact when they say she's singing and he's singing
and everybody in the world acknowledges it, I mean, it's
no longer really musical. We have broken all of the
(08:20):
rules to it. On top of the fact that if
you notice when they are singing, if you sat through
this film, they are off key and that is just
like WHOA. But looking at an interview with Lady Gaga,
I had to do research for this. Looking at the
interview with Lady Gaga, she had to relearn how to
sing to not sound as professional. That blew my mind.
(08:42):
So she was purposely singing to be almost like an amateur, okay,
And so then I was thinking, okay, was it to
match Joaquie in Phoenixes he can't sing? Is that what's
going on so that the musical quality is more raw?
I guess. But again, if you're going to have a
musical number, you want them to be singing well. And
(09:05):
all of that is shattered towards the end when Joaquin
and Lady Yaga have a song together and they sound incredible.
She sounds like, you know, Lady Gaga, and he sounded
really good. I was like, oh my god, he's had
pipes this whole time. But they're singing off almost on purpose,
because it's supposed to be part of this delusion where
(09:26):
they are just singing to each other in real life
and everybody knows it, which again you lose the whole
fantasy of the musical number. So I thought that was
really interesting, the fact that they're kind of singing off
key and more raw on purpose to be more like
people that are living off the street instead of professional singers. Okay,
(09:47):
So the musical aspect take that throat all aside, Okay,
we're going to move past that, but I did want
to address it because it's not something that you ever
really hear about. They just talk about the fact that, oh,
they're using old, recycled, recycled essentially covers of songs, and
that's why we don't like the movie. But it goes
well beyond that. So this is a court room drama,
(10:11):
all right, That's what the film is. And as someone
who has written a court room drama that is in
post production has in looking at a theatrical release, writing
a court room drama, it can read as boring if
you do not work in lots of action or interesting
conflict that can keep it going. I don't know if
any of you have seen The Girl Who The Girl
(10:34):
with a Dragon Tattoo. Okay, I don't know if anybody's
seen that. Really enjoy that movie. The Norwegian version is
a fantastic thriller. Well, the sequel is a courtroom drama
and it's slow. It's called The Girl Who Kicked the
Hornet's Nest. It's courtroom drama. It's slower, and it's a
little it's a bit more difficult to get through because
(10:55):
that is the nature of that genre. So if Todd
Phillips is directing sequel A Joker, and he's writing a
courtroom drama because that's what he wants to explore, and
you start to see like, oh no, this script is
craying to a crawling, to a stop, to a halt.
You throw in the musical component to try and get
a little bit more you know, visual spectacle there, and
(11:17):
you end up kind of getting this miss mess. So
I think it was an interesting take and to do
something that you really haven't seen before, which is like
a musical light. But I can see where we're losing
the audience. That being said, if you can get through
the musical opponent and just like kind of sit and
watch the courtroom drama, it is compelling. It is interesting
(11:40):
watching Arthur reflect, Arthur reflect on what he has done
and the people that he has hurt through his actions.
Of the first film, I was enthralled by. It's like wow,
And Whilekinis is delivering in the courtroom aspect, you just
have to get through all of the other stuff. First Joker,
the first film is about a man struggling with his
(12:05):
mental issues, right, and the system itself failing him. Right.
That's what the first film is about So the second
film is about that person who has mental issues, right,
trying to figure out who he is because he's going
to therapy, right, and everyone in his life, and this
(12:29):
is the second film, everyone in his life is telling
him who he is based on what they want him
to be. That is very interesting, very compelling, and I
enjoyed that aspect of the film. Arthur is trying to
find himself. The guards are very nice to him, and
(12:53):
they treat him like a pet and so to him,
you know, he's their friend, but they be use him. Right,
So that version of Arthur is a docile you know,
tell me a joke, Arthur and I get a cigarette
type of character. So he wants so to him, He's
then to Harley to lead. He is the joker. He
(13:15):
is the living embodiment of chaos. Right, he is, damn
the man. I'm gonna do what I want. But that's
not who he wants to be either's he just wants
to be Arthur. He just wants to be loved for him,
not for who you think he is. That is fantastic,
you know, character building and theme throughout the film that
is there. If you peel away all of the other
(13:36):
musical stuff and all the other distractions. That part is
revealed in the courtroom dram when it's fascinating, it's just
it gets lost. So if you can sit through that,
there's actually a lot to be said towards the back
half of the film. And then there is this this
surprise ending that kind of leads into the Dark Knight movies,
which I found very interesting. I don't know if there
(13:57):
was tacked on or if that was planned, but I
did like it. But it audience members and I guess
fans are pissed off because it feels like a slap
to the face. But essentially, the director has every right
to do what he wants with the character he's created.
(14:18):
So it really comes down to audience expectation versus fans service.
Is a director owed to an audience to deliver them
what they expect or does the director have a story
that he wants to tell in the way that he
wants to tell it. And that's where the controversy is.
(14:40):
And I think that's where it gets lost because I
could see where you want to serve the fans, because
the fans have taken time out of their life, they
have paid good money, they sit down. They want to
watch Joaquin Phoenix make the world burn. Okay, the director
wants to explore this interesting character that he has built
(15:03):
into the Joker into a real life situation of what
would happen if they were in court, told through musical.
I got a question, Yes, I am recording this podcast again.
I didn't know how long it was going to go.
If it hits over fifteen minutes, I will just make
this one of my episodes and I'll post it out there.
But I did want to kind of get into it
(15:24):
because a few people had asked me to kind of
break down Jokers. So those are my thoughts my analysis
of the Joker film. I thought it was really good
of who am I? That's really what the big question
is with Joker? Fully do is Arthur Fleck? Am I?
Who Lee wants me to be? Am I? Who my
lawyer wants me to be? Because in the film, the
(15:45):
lawyer wanted him to be crazy, You're mentally unstable, that's
what they wanted. The cops want him to be docile.
And so if the theme if we look at the
edit as a theme of who am I? Right, and
then we break that down between all of the subplots
of the security guards, the lawyer and Lee or Harley
(16:08):
Quinn of who I am. Then it all starts to
make sense. It's about identity, and finally, you know, spoiler,
Arthur accepts, Hey, I am me. I'm not who you
think I am. I want to be loved for me.
I don't want to be loved because I made some
(16:28):
bad decisions in the first film. I don't want to
be loved because I'm this docile pet of yours. I
want to be loved for Arthur. And I think that
it was really great. And then after his arc is completed,
(16:48):
what happens. He's ended, right because there is nowhere else
for him to go, So it makes total sense spoiler alert,
spoiler alert that he is killed in the end because
his arc is over. So when people are mad, oh,
you know, how could you do this to him? How
could you kill him off? That's what you do. When
(17:10):
the character is done, he either you know, retires off
on his own and has never seen again. But you
know that's not going to happen with Arthur, or he's
ended in this game over. Okay, Yeah, some people are
enjoying the film. I think that's awesome and I'm glad
I was able to kind of walk you through my
two cents on it, walk through the theme and then
(17:34):
the musical kind of aspect of it, and then the
fact that it's a courtroom drama. Also, if you have
a film that you want me to check out, you know,
message me and I will take a look at it.
And make sure you go to the Successful Screenwriter podcast
and check out all my back episodes. I've got a
lot going on there. And if you have questions on screenwriting,
you know, feel free to message me and I'm always
(17:56):
happy to discuss those live. Have a good one, guys,
thanks for listening. If you liked the show, please subscribe
and share on your social media. Make sure to visit
us at the Successful screenwrinter dot com where you can
chat with us about anything and everything screenwriting on our
dedicated forums. I'll see you there
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com. Hey,
I'm your host, Jeffrey D. Klhoun, and I'd love it
if you join our community at the Successful Screenwriter dot com.
You'll get access to seminars, workshops, OSCAR nominated screenplays, and
(00:24):
even open writing assignments from producers. Get all the tools,
resources and support you need to launch your screenwriting career
for free. Now onto our show. Okay, we are live. Okay,
so I am going live on multiple platforms at the
(00:44):
same time. But I can get comments, so if you
guys have any questions, feel free to pop in. I
also want to get your thoughts on what we're going
to talk about. We're going to do kind of a
film analysis on Joker Fold you do. Lots of people
ask me to do it. I'm a little late to
the game on this. Obviously the bandwagon's already left on
(01:06):
how people feel about it, but you know, here we are.
My mind is a blaze with all of the things
that were going on in this film, and obviously the
fans really not being happy so much to the point
that you know, I have notes, so all right, so
(01:27):
if you have any comments, feel free to pop them
in the chat there and I will check it out.
But let's dive into my film analysis on joker fol
you do if anybody is new to the podcast or
is new to my Instagram. I am a screenwriter. I
am option and produced. I have film films on television.
I have films on TV. So those are my qualifications.
(01:49):
I've been doing this for about twenty years. When I
do these film analysis, I don't like to just do
a review, like I don't believe in movie reviews. I
don't think they give you what you really need. I
feel movie reviews are exceptionally opinionated, and I like to
break down why a film is working, why a film
(02:10):
isn't working, and kind of how it's investing the audience
or losing the audience. I always love the quote those
who can't criticize, and that's not who I am. I
am somebody who makes films. So let's just kind of
talk about what is going on in Jokeerfolio do and
see if we can kind of puel away the onion
(02:30):
on why we were losing the audience and if anything
was working, why it was working okay. So joker folio
do folly do essentially means a delusion shared amongst two people,
and in this case it would be obviously between Arthur
Fleck and who was Harley Quinn but goes by Lee
(02:50):
in the film, his love interest. There's their delusion. It's
arguably said that it could also be a delusion between
the director and the audience at this point, considering how
much the audience did not enjoy the second film. Looking
at it right now, it's got a thirty two percent
on Rotten Tomatoes, which is quite low. You know, Expectations
(03:12):
for the film were more like Taxi Driver, like a
sequel to Taxi Driver, and instead he kind of presented
this lighthearted, I don't want to say lighthearted. He presented
this lighter tone through a court drama which is still
character centered, but it's not going as deep and as
dark as as I guess the fans were expecting it
(03:35):
to do. Why I think it started to lose the
audience is when you are doing a musical, there are
like quote rules to the musicals, and I'll walk you
through a few of those and why musicals, what their
rules are and why they work and how joker foll
(03:58):
you do. Was is not utilizing these these quote rules
to the expectations of a musical that it would be
all right. So, when you're doing a musical, like the
first big real rule of a musical is the songs.
When the characters break out into songs, it is reflecting
(04:20):
their inner thoughts, it is reflecting their owner emotions, and
it's not something that is known to be happening within
the world itself. So I like a girl, she doesn't
like the boy. He breaks into a song about how
he's interested in her. She breaks out into song and
about how she's torn and doesn't like him. But that's
really us hearing their inner monologue, right, It's us hearing
(04:43):
their internal conflict displayed out for the audience, Which is
why musicals are so big on a stage play because
it's verbal, right, it's not really showy. Now they're doing that.
But the songs are not original songs, right, They are
old Dean Martin songs there, They're not originals. There are
(05:07):
songs that are sort of interesting, are song that you'd like.
I think I've heard that before, but I'm not familiar
with it. That kind of pulls away from the originality
of what is going inside of Arthur's mind if he's
just kind of singing old show tunes. So right away
you start to lose it a little bit right there,
start to lose little bit of the thread the other thing,
(05:29):
and I think of a specific scene, so I will
do a few spoilers here, guys, but there's a specific
scene of a musical that popped out where it was like, Okay,
this isn't going as big as it should be, because
like the second rule of musicals is that the musical
numbers go big, right Their whole point is to really
(05:49):
build up and amplify those big moments they are over
the top because it's a musical, right. Well, the music
component to this film is very low key. It's very contained.
You know. Typically with the musical, you know, you've got
the lead breaking into song, you've got the love interest,
(06:10):
the heart plot breaking into song, and then everybody around
them gets involved, huge dance numbers and all of this.
We don't really have any of that. It's very subdued,
and in so doing, it's like it's almost a musical,
but it's not. It's like peppering a musical on there.
But the problem is you either do it or you don't,
(06:31):
and so I think that's one of the reasons why
you can start to kind of lose the audience there
beyond what the expectations were typically with these musical components.
And I'm going to move beyond that. I just want
to give you guys some of the rules so that
we kind of know what's going on. And one of
the reasons why it wasn't quote a musical because I
really don't consider this a musical. I think it has
(06:53):
musical flavorings, but it doesn't hit any of the notes
that you would need for musical. Like the songs are
supposed to drive the story forward, and on occasion it
does that, but again, when you're just recycling old songs,
it's kind of difficult to drive the story forward that way.
And thinking about that one scene, it is the breakout
(07:15):
scene where Lee and Arthur are trying to escape and
they are singing, right, and they having this musical number
where they're dancing and they're dodging spotlights to kind of
break out. Typically, you would have everyone involved in that scene, right,
You'd have the journalists who are taking pictures through the gates,
you would have the police, everybody wouldn't be involved in
(07:38):
this potentially big musical number, where instead it's just Arthur
and Lee just kind of singing to each other and escaping.
And here's the part that gets different that you're never
really going to see in a musical before. Is everybody
acknowledges that they're singing. That's the part that threw me off.
(07:59):
The cars talk about the fact that they were singing
to each other as escaping. This is not something that
is acknowledged within the musical world, which is why I
think Todd Phillips says, hey, this isn't musical. Well, it's
not because it's not following any of the rules. So
the fact when they say she's singing and he's singing
and everybody in the world acknowledges it, I mean, it's
no longer really musical. We have broken all of the
(08:20):
rules to it. On top of the fact that if
you notice when they are singing, if you sat through
this film, they are off key and that is just
like WHOA. But looking at an interview with Lady Gaga,
I had to do research for this. Looking at the
interview with Lady Gaga, she had to relearn how to
sing to not sound as professional. That blew my mind.
(08:42):
So she was purposely singing to be almost like an amateur, okay,
And so then I was thinking, okay, was it to
match Joaquie in Phoenixes he can't sing? Is that what's
going on so that the musical quality is more raw?
I guess. But again, if you're going to have a
musical number, you want them to be singing well. And
(09:05):
all of that is shattered towards the end when Joaquin
and Lady Yaga have a song together and they sound incredible.
She sounds like, you know, Lady Gaga, and he sounded
really good. I was like, oh my god, he's had
pipes this whole time. But they're singing off almost on purpose,
because it's supposed to be part of this delusion where
(09:26):
they are just singing to each other in real life
and everybody knows it, which again you lose the whole
fantasy of the musical number. So I thought that was
really interesting, the fact that they're kind of singing off
key and more raw on purpose to be more like
people that are living off the street instead of professional singers. Okay,
(09:47):
So the musical aspect take that throat all aside, Okay,
we're going to move past that, but I did want
to address it because it's not something that you ever
really hear about. They just talk about the fact that, oh,
they're using old, recycled, recycled essentially covers of songs, and
that's why we don't like the movie. But it goes
well beyond that. So this is a court room drama,
(10:11):
all right, That's what the film is. And as someone
who has written a court room drama that is in
post production has in looking at a theatrical release, writing
a court room drama, it can read as boring if
you do not work in lots of action or interesting
conflict that can keep it going. I don't know if
any of you have seen The Girl Who The Girl
(10:34):
with a Dragon Tattoo. Okay, I don't know if anybody's
seen that. Really enjoy that movie. The Norwegian version is
a fantastic thriller. Well, the sequel is a courtroom drama
and it's slow. It's called The Girl Who Kicked the
Hornet's Nest. It's courtroom drama. It's slower, and it's a
little it's a bit more difficult to get through because
(10:55):
that is the nature of that genre. So if Todd
Phillips is directing sequel A Joker, and he's writing a
courtroom drama because that's what he wants to explore, and
you start to see like, oh no, this script is
craying to a crawling, to a stop, to a halt.
You throw in the musical component to try and get
a little bit more you know, visual spectacle there, and
(11:17):
you end up kind of getting this miss mess. So
I think it was an interesting take and to do
something that you really haven't seen before, which is like
a musical light. But I can see where we're losing
the audience. That being said, if you can get through
the musical opponent and just like kind of sit and
watch the courtroom drama, it is compelling. It is interesting
(11:40):
watching Arthur reflect, Arthur reflect on what he has done
and the people that he has hurt through his actions.
Of the first film, I was enthralled by. It's like wow,
And Whilekinis is delivering in the courtroom aspect, you just
have to get through all of the other stuff. First Joker,
the first film is about a man struggling with his
(12:05):
mental issues, right, and the system itself failing him. Right.
That's what the first film is about So the second
film is about that person who has mental issues, right,
trying to figure out who he is because he's going
to therapy, right, and everyone in his life, and this
(12:29):
is the second film, everyone in his life is telling
him who he is based on what they want him
to be. That is very interesting, very compelling, and I
enjoyed that aspect of the film. Arthur is trying to
find himself. The guards are very nice to him, and
(12:53):
they treat him like a pet and so to him,
you know, he's their friend, but they be use him. Right,
So that version of Arthur is a docile you know,
tell me a joke, Arthur and I get a cigarette
type of character. So he wants so to him, He's
then to Harley to lead. He is the joker. He
(13:15):
is the living embodiment of chaos. Right, he is, damn
the man. I'm gonna do what I want. But that's
not who he wants to be either's he just wants
to be Arthur. He just wants to be loved for him,
not for who you think he is. That is fantastic,
you know, character building and theme throughout the film that
is there. If you peel away all of the other
(13:36):
musical stuff and all the other distractions. That part is
revealed in the courtroom dram when it's fascinating, it's just
it gets lost. So if you can sit through that,
there's actually a lot to be said towards the back
half of the film. And then there is this this
surprise ending that kind of leads into the Dark Knight movies,
which I found very interesting. I don't know if there
(13:57):
was tacked on or if that was planned, but I
did like it. But it audience members and I guess
fans are pissed off because it feels like a slap
to the face. But essentially, the director has every right
to do what he wants with the character he's created.
(14:18):
So it really comes down to audience expectation versus fans service.
Is a director owed to an audience to deliver them
what they expect or does the director have a story
that he wants to tell in the way that he
wants to tell it. And that's where the controversy is.
(14:40):
And I think that's where it gets lost because I
could see where you want to serve the fans, because
the fans have taken time out of their life, they
have paid good money, they sit down. They want to
watch Joaquin Phoenix make the world burn. Okay, the director
wants to explore this interesting character that he has built
(15:03):
into the Joker into a real life situation of what
would happen if they were in court, told through musical.
I got a question, Yes, I am recording this podcast again.
I didn't know how long it was going to go.
If it hits over fifteen minutes, I will just make
this one of my episodes and I'll post it out there.
But I did want to kind of get into it
(15:24):
because a few people had asked me to kind of
break down Jokers. So those are my thoughts my analysis
of the Joker film. I thought it was really good
of who am I? That's really what the big question
is with Joker? Fully do is Arthur Fleck? Am I?
Who Lee wants me to be? Am I? Who my
lawyer wants me to be? Because in the film, the
(15:45):
lawyer wanted him to be crazy, You're mentally unstable, that's
what they wanted. The cops want him to be docile.
And so if the theme if we look at the
edit as a theme of who am I? Right, and
then we break that down between all of the subplots
of the security guards, the lawyer and Lee or Harley
(16:08):
Quinn of who I am. Then it all starts to
make sense. It's about identity, and finally, you know, spoiler,
Arthur accepts, Hey, I am me. I'm not who you
think I am. I want to be loved for me.
I don't want to be loved because I made some
(16:28):
bad decisions in the first film. I don't want to
be loved because I'm this docile pet of yours. I
want to be loved for Arthur. And I think that
it was really great. And then after his arc is completed,
(16:48):
what happens. He's ended, right because there is nowhere else
for him to go, So it makes total sense spoiler alert,
spoiler alert that he is killed in the end because
his arc is over. So when people are mad, oh,
you know, how could you do this to him? How
could you kill him off? That's what you do. When
(17:10):
the character is done, he either you know, retires off
on his own and has never seen again. But you
know that's not going to happen with Arthur, or he's
ended in this game over. Okay, Yeah, some people are
enjoying the film. I think that's awesome and I'm glad
I was able to kind of walk you through my
two cents on it, walk through the theme and then
(17:34):
the musical kind of aspect of it, and then the
fact that it's a courtroom drama. Also, if you have
a film that you want me to check out, you know,
message me and I will take a look at it.
And make sure you go to the Successful Screenwriter podcast
and check out all my back episodes. I've got a
lot going on there. And if you have questions on screenwriting,
you know, feel free to message me and I'm always
(17:56):
happy to discuss those live. Have a good one, guys,
thanks for listening. If you liked the show, please subscribe
and share on your social media. Make sure to visit
us at the Successful screenwrinter dot com where you can
chat with us about anything and everything screenwriting on our
dedicated forums. I'll see you there
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