S2 E2 - Cassandra Lee Ramsey

Cassandra Lee Ramsey, 25, disappeared from Lawton on Oct. 10, 1999. Her nude body turned up five months later beneath a bridge along a rural road in Jefferson County. Her cause of death was ruled undetermined.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is a true story, butthe opinions of people interviewed or talk to
you are just that opinions, notfacts unless stated otherwise. Opinions stated by
witnesses are not to be seen asthe opinions of the sweete Anna Project or
anyone working for the podcast, andthe credibility of those opinions is to be
determined by the listener. Everyone haspresumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court

(00:23):
of law. Welcome to The SweetieAnna Project, Season two. Welcome to
Lawton. This is episode two.I'm joined on this episode by my co

(00:44):
host Christina and Christina, how areyou doing today? I'm doing good.
How are you? I can't reallycomplain. What do you think about the
first episode in this case? Well, I thought you did a really good
job covering it. I definitely amintrigued by all of these ladies. I
think that some of your interesting perspectiveson who it might be make a lot

(01:12):
of sense. So I guess we'llhave to see. I agree it's hard
telling at this point, and westill have a long road to go and
a lot more cases to talk about, but I think there's definitely more than
a few good theories out there,and you brought up another theory that I
really didn't touch on in the firstepisode, So it'll be nice to discuss

(01:34):
that one at the end, kindof see what listeners think for sure.
Well, you want to tell usa little bit about Cassandra. So her
full name is Cassandra Lee Boyd Ramsey, and she was born in Hot Springs,
Arkansas, on April seventh, nineteenseventy four, and she was twenty

(01:55):
five years old at the time ofher death. But she went by the
name Sandy. I'm not really surewhen she moved to Oklahoma, but she
wasn't own sex worker who worked thestreets of the Cash Road area, and
she also had a drug habit.Like I was telling listeners in the first
episode and in the introduction, man, I mean a lot of these all

(02:16):
these women share the same habits,same circles, and they worked on the
same road, doing the same job. And that's kind of what what makes
it scary because Cassandra she had livedwith various friends in Lawton, and she
was trying to get clean because ofthe Jane Marie Chaftain killing. And she

(02:38):
had actually and she had actually toldher friends that she was going to Texarkana,
Texas, and she was also tellingher friends that she was scared she
was going to be the next onekilled. And then she was last seen
on October tenth, nineteen nine nine, with a white male in a full

(03:02):
sized Chevy or gmc van which waseither white or gray or light blue with
stripes down the side. And theman is described as being white, five
foot ten, light colored hair,and there is a forensic sketch available.

(03:22):
Now I gotta ask Christina, whatdid you think when you saw that she
had been scared that she was goingto be the next one? Like,
what were your thoughts on that?Well? I felt that, you know,
the fact that she was trying toget her life together is what makes
this so sad, because she sawthat she was terrified that she was going

(03:46):
to be after Jane. And wedon't know why she felt like that.
I can't find any sort of reliablesource that says a reason of why she
felt like that, but that iswhat her roommates had told the police when
they were interviewed, that she wasterrified that she would be next. So
the fact that she even wanted toget her life together and recognize that she

(04:12):
needed help to have this sort ofending to your life is just horrible.
Yeah, I agree it it makesme think like she was maybe a witness
to the last person to see JaneChaftin or you know, the last person
she got into a vehicle with,or something of that sort, because I

(04:34):
don't know if for me looking atit, it kind of makes me think
that she had an idea of whoit might have been. And she also
might have you know, done somejobs for him, you know, in
the sex work trade, or youknow, maybe that was one of her
dealers, one of her drug dealersor something like that. It's I don't

(04:55):
know. It kind of struck meas odd. There's a couple things in
this case. It's tray me asud I'll be honest with you. Yeah,
and you know, and I didn'teven think about that, you know,
that factor that she could have witnessedit or they could have known that
she knew, and that is whatdrove you know, her to be so
scared. I wish we had moreinformation about why she felt like that,

(05:20):
because that would be a really goodkey for trying to solve this. Absolutely
so. Her body was found onMarch twenty second, two thousand, after
she had been missing for around fivemonths. So the location where her body

(05:43):
was found was close to a farm, and a farmer unfortunately, had found
her body. It was half buriedin mud under a bridge. She was
found nude inside Jefferson County, whichis about one mile east of the Jefferson
Cotton County line on US seventy,so that's about an hour drive southeast,

(06:04):
almost on the Texas line. Now. Jefferson County is very rural. The
population is roughly only six thousand people. But her body was so badly decomposed
that there was no cause or mannerof death determined because it had been five
months out in the elements. Therewas no evidence found at the scene,

(06:26):
no clothing. However, and thisis the kicker that gets me about this
case. She was found with astone that she had lost previously, that
had come out of an earring andit had been missing for a while.
She had tried to find it andcouldn't find it, and this stone was
on her body when she was found. So that is huge to me,

(06:48):
and I wish that I could findout more about that because that is the
one thing about this case that isshocking to me, that if that stone
had been missing for a long time. I mean, obviously that person had
it. She'd been around that personbefore, you know, and placed it
on her body. Is like,maybe I don't know, some sort of

(07:10):
clue. I don't know. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
The only plausible scenario, and thisis pure speculation on my behalf, is
that she might have done some sexwork for that same person beforehand and he
had had that on him, andthen when he picked her up and killed

(07:33):
her and dropped her off, hewas like, oh, well, you
can have this back to something likethat scenario, which would kind of mesh
up with her being paranoid that shewas going to be the next one,
like that whole scenario, like sheknew the guy who was last with Jane
Chafton And I don't know, Iguess that that's kind of where I was

(07:55):
at, Like speculation wise, Ifeel like now that we're even just talking
about this with these pieces at thesame time, that makes a lot of
sense because it had to be someonethat she'd met before she knew she was
missing it, her friends knew shewas missing it, and you know,
someone had to have had that stoneon them, So it makes sense that

(08:18):
that person knew knew she was andthat maybe they killed her to keep her
quiet. That's obviously just speculation,but it makes a lot of sense if
you put those two things together,because that is the one thing that I
just it keeps on. It bogglesmy mind that that was not a bigger
clue to people in the area.Yeah, and you actually brought up a

(08:41):
really good point with some rumors,because there was somebody who commented on one
of the Facebook posts about the rumorsand one of the theories that you just
brought to the table that I reallydidn't touch on in the first episode,
and he told he said in thecomments, he goes, Yeah, my

(09:01):
girlfriend used to be from Lawton,and a lot of people around there think
it's somebody from the military base becausethere's an army base down there called Fort
Sill. And you actually had broughtthat up. And do you want to
kind of elaborate on why you thinkyou know, that's a fairly good rumor.
I suppose, Yeah, I meanI had seen the rumor posted in

(09:24):
another online form with people that werefrom there, and that is, you
know, supposedly the rumor with peoplethat live in Lawton and especially at the
time. They were saying just thetiming of the killings was I don't want
to say military like because that doesn'tmake sense, but the timing when it

(09:46):
comes to you know, you're fouryears, you're in the military, maybe
you're deployed somewhere and you come back. Because if there was no evidence that
certain killings had stopped or started,it just seems so strategic when it comes
to the military timing. They alsosaid that it was possibly a university student,

(10:07):
but that doesn't really fit THEMO becausethen they would have had to come
back later. But it makes sensefor military because if you're there, you
know, you're doing it four years, then you go, maybe you go
to some sort of different country,and then you come back. It's definitely
somebody that was familiar with the areabecause the places that these bodies were found

(10:28):
were not just you know, randomdumping grounds. They were places that were
difficult for a you know, atractor trailer or something to get to if
you weren't from that area. Andthe Jefferson County, like you had said
earlier, population is roughly six thousandpeople. That is a small county,

(10:50):
and to put that into perspective,the entire County of Comanche County, where
Lawton is located, is about onehundred and twenty thousand people. The city
of Lawton itself is one hundred thousandof that. So the entire surrounding area
around Lawton is super rural. Andthat's I mean, you're right there in

(11:13):
Jefferson County, like right there onthe Cotton County Jefferson County line, right
on a US seventy there, you'reright there by the Texas border. I
mean, her body was found rightby the Texas border. And the whole
deployed thing. I really didn't thinkabout that because that makes sense because a
lot of the investigators were saying,you know, people who commit these crimes
don't stop. You know, theyeither go to jail for other charges or

(11:39):
they go somewhere else. And it'slike, well, that does kind of
make sense, you know. Yeah, so maybe they didn't stop. Maybe
they just stopped there. Well,and that's that's definitely why I'm always curious
because of the ladies who were takenfrom Lawton, you know, to other
states. It's like two of themwere found in a mass grave in New

(12:03):
Mexico and then you have one oractually more than one that are suspected to
be connected to these cases that werefound in Texas, but they were from
Lawton, So it's kind of alittle bit all over the place. But
you know, there's no shortage oftheories or anything like that. But what
did you what did you think ofthe two people of interest and from the

(12:30):
previous episode, the Corey Morris andJohn Robert Williams um well, specifically Williams,
with the fact that he had admittedto killing so many women, I
think, I mean, obviously that'sa plausible case. I do find it
interesting that Sandy was telling her roommatesthat she was headed to Texas and boom,

(12:54):
there she is found at the Texasline. Yeah, that's interesting to
me. So I would love toknow who this man was that she was
last seen with, because it soundslike he has a lot of things that
he would you know, could discuss, you know in my brain saying,
and that's not the person that killedher, because if she was so scared,

(13:16):
and you know, our theory was, you know, allegedly correct,
she wouldn't have been scared to gowith this guy exactly. It was somebody
she was familiar with and someone thatI feel like is familiar with the area
that either you know, still livesthere. We don't know, I mean,
who knows. But the stone partwhere they were found. All these

(13:37):
things just do not to me makeit a trucker's serial killing if that makes
sense. Yeah, no, Iagree. I mean, obviously it could
be who've heard stranger things. ButI just think the fact that if it
was a trucker, would he havekept her stone, you know, months

(13:58):
before, like that doesn't make anysense to me. It seems personal.
Yeah, it does. It does. Either that or maybe he didn't keep
it on purpose. Maybe she accidentallywhen they were fooling around or whatever,
accidentally lost it and he was like, oh, well, this chick just
happened to witness me picking up JaneShafton, so I might as well tie

(14:22):
up a loose end or something andget this earring out of here too.
So I don't know. It's,like I said, as pure speculation,
just tossing ideas around on my part. Well, I mean I could toss
them too, because I'm thinking howlittle was this stone if it was in
an earring? You know? Yeah, did you like if someone left an
earring at my house or the stonefell out. I don't even know how

(14:43):
long it would take me to findit, considering I would think a stone
from an earring is pretty small.So it just seemed I don't know,
it just seemed so personal to methat they would keep it. You know,
why not just toss it if itwas someone it was, if it
was a trucker coming through town,just toss it. Nobody's gonna find that
little stone. But it's like theypurposely kept the small stone and left it

(15:07):
on her body for a reason.Yeah, I agree, I agree.
I just keep coming to that onescenario that it has to be someone that
either she knew knew of but isdefinitely from that area or lived there.
I can agree with that, allright. Well, the next episode it

(15:30):
is going to be on Mandy AnnRate and ironically enough, her boyfriend was
arrested for being a wall from themilitary and no charges ever came of that,
but he definitely was arrested, andthe fact that he had a military
connection I think is pretty interesting whenwe get into these cases as well.

(15:54):
So definitely, yeah, we're goingto talk about all possibilities, so we're
trained to exclude any for sure,because there's a lot of stuff going on
here. So Christine, I supposeI will see you again next week when
we talk about Mandy's death, anduntil then, all right, we'll see

(16:14):
you then, all right, seeyou