S2 E3 - Interview with Officer 'Anonymous'

In this episode we interview a law enforcement officer from the general area who's been looking into these cases for about 20 years.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
This is a true story, butthe opinions of people interviewed or talk to
you are just that opinions, notfacts unless stated otherwise. Opinions stated by
witnesses are not to be seen asthe opinions of the sweete Anna Project or
anyone working for the podcast, andthe credibility of those opinions is to be
determined by the listener. Everyone haspresumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court

(00:25):
of law. All Right, welcometo this week's episode of Sweetie Anna Project.
This week we have an interview foryou with Officer Anonymous. This is

(00:47):
a person I have been in contactwith for a few months and the person
who originally brought these cases to myattention. Now, with that being said,
this person has to remain anonymous.They will also be a return guest
after every few cases to help usfilling gaps and give us more information.
But because of this person's anonymity,their voice will be altered. So it's

(01:14):
not your podcast player, it's nothinglike that. It is me physically doing
it on the software so that theycan stay anonymous. So with that understanding,
please take a listen. Me andChristina hit this person with what I
think is a few good questions,and like I said, this will be

(01:36):
a return guest in the future aswell, So just so you know,
there is some voice altering going onduring this interview. How long have you
been involved in law enforcement? Wouldyou say it is more than ten years?
Yes, more than ten years.What brought your attention to these cases

(02:00):
when you first started getting involved inthem? The similarities between how they became
missing, where they were missing from, and when the body started showing up
out in the County's a combination ofwhere they worked, where they came from,
and where they were located. Didyou have any co workers who were

(02:23):
already looking into some of these cases? And did you bring this to the
attention of some of your co workersafter you started getting involved in it.
I did. We would discuss itat length. We all had our theories
or speculations on what was going on, but it was real hard to get
information out or get information in becauseof the different jurisdictions involved. And you

(02:50):
said you've been looking into these sincearound the year two thousand. That is
correct. Now, when you mentionedjurisdictions, I have to ask what kind
of working relationships do the different jurisdictionshave and if they're not working relationships,
you know, if they're not good, why do you think some of that

(03:13):
is very little, if any workingrelationship relationships with any other departments UK We
discussed earlier it could be a primething. But with these leads bodies being
found across different jurisdictions, jurisdictions donot share information with each other. It
could cooperation or a feeling of ownerships. I guess for me personally, I

(03:38):
don't understand that concept when it comesto trying to solve homicide cases or missing
persons cases. I don't understand whythat would even be a thing. I
guess what do you think about that? Christina? Yeah, I've always wondered
what is up with the ego issuewhen it comes to who you know,

(04:00):
state involvement versus federal involvement versus localinvolvement. I mean, at the core
of this, we want to findout who killed these people or who did
the crime period in whatever case we'retalking about. So if you get into
public service for a selfless reason,I don't understand why we put in pride

(04:21):
in front of that. To findout who these people are and to give
closure to these families is not apersonal thing. I agree, we're supposed
to help people, and by notsharing information with other agencies, if you're
not solving the problem, not atall. And I could imagine to some
degree, is some of this foyable? I mean, maybe you know,

(04:44):
I'm more of the legal mind thanI am, like an investigator, but
I just don't understand what, youknow, what the secrecy is. This
is not about them. It's aboutthe people that have died in the families
that have lost someone. These weremothers, these were daughters, these sisters.
Why is that not top priority forsome of these people. That's an
interesting question that I would love tohear an answer to. It is about

(05:09):
the families finding closure. It isabout the families finding their loved ones.
And we should be able to talkto each other, we should be able
to sit down and compare notes,compare ems on what we're seeing, and
it's just not happened. I've noticeda lot of these cases were sent to

(05:29):
the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation andafter that there's no more news on them,
no updates, no anything. Imean, are those some of those
cases still being actively investigated or dothey just get put on a shelf and
forgot. You know, you mightnot know the most accurate answer to that,

(05:50):
but what is your opinion on that? In my opinion, they're not
being looked at or unless they're justbrought up a quick's ask, but they
haven't as far as I know,been looked into an all time Okay.
That actually brings up something that Imentioned to justin earlier when I asked whether

(06:11):
the OSBI had ever gotten with thebau and Quantico like they said they were
going to do to try to makea profile and the killer. This was
in multiple news outlets where they hadhe had been you know, one of
the investigators had been interviewed and saidthat this is what they're going to do.
Well, did they do that?I mean, why tell people that
unless they're just trying to appease themand beat me, address it and then

(06:33):
be quiet about it. I mean, where's this profile? Like? Why
does this not matter? I wishI knew it would be very it would
be a great source of information todo it out to the public. I
also wanted to know whether you hadany knowledge whether the playing cards that they
had given out to the prisoners withthe you know, the pictures of the

(06:54):
women on them if they had hadany leads from that or not. If
they have they bit close to thevest, they haven't released that information.
How many women do you personally thinkare involved in some of these because as
we know, we're starting off thepodcast going from nineteen ninety nine to two

(07:16):
thousand and three through Jane ree Chaftonto Tanya Hook. Me and you have
talked for months, and Christina's inon this. We've all been going back
and forth for a long time,and I'm pretty sure we all can agree
there's cases before and after this.I know one an LA Times article that

(07:38):
the Oklahoman picked up after the factthat the LA Times wrote an article on
it, which was sad in itself. But the fact that they say there's
twelve cases connected, how many doyou personally think are intertwined in this whole
whole thing, offering there a waymore more than fifty. I tend to

(08:03):
agree with that. Actually, themajority they've had ties to Latin one way
or the earth. Either they workedthe streets, they worked the strip clubs,
or mass arge parlors. All theones that I've been looking at all
had times to Morton, and youbrought up an interesting point with one of

(08:24):
our cases already. As you know, we've we've done the two episodes so
far, you know, going forwardand stuff. But you brought up an
interesting point. There's a lot ofsalons that they'll say are salons, and
yeah, they'll be doing hair inthe front and doing other stuff in the
back. Is that correct? Iscorrect? Because I noticed that there was

(08:48):
a big raid. I can't rememberthe year specifically, I want to say
two thousand and thirteen or two thousandand seventeen where they went in and they
busted a lot of these places.Is you had mentioned to me that there
were also officers involved in that?Is that correct? Is their reputation of

(09:11):
there being some sketchy law enforcement inthat area? There has been some speculation
on that. Yeah, that's allyou had to say. I was thinking
that I don't want you to sayanything. Obviously, this is all alleged
speculation, blah blah blah, unlessthere's police records. We all know the

(09:33):
legalities of this podcast. Christina.I think you actually had a question about
the stone that was found on you. I'm telling you, this is the
one that's just gonna get me forever. Is the stone out of the earring,
because we all know how a smallor big an arring can be,
but a stone inside of an airringis going to be very small. So

(09:56):
what is your theory number one onthe Cassandra Lee Ramsey case with the stone?
And that kind of ties into mysecond question. Maybe you can just
answer them, but at the sametime is do you have a personal theory
on who this person might be orhow they're connected, or you know,

(10:18):
any sort of gut feeling that you'vegot in reference to the stone being found?
O Two was kind of it's odd. How does someone keep a small
stone and then when they kill theowner of it, they put it on
their body? And that's actually twoquestions. I'm serious not know Cassandra was
found and halfway in mud naked,how did they found the stone? And

(10:41):
for it could be found on herbody, you know, if that's correct,
and she had lost it and thekiller had it, what was this
thought process on keeping a small stonejust to place it on her body after
that? And it just made methink was the killer at the crime scene
when they found her body? Youjust made me totally think. I mean,

(11:03):
obviously this is speculation, but howif she was buried in mud they
found that tiny stone. I mean, I know that forensics are good,
but as soon as you said that, my brain was like a little light
bulb went off and I was like, really, you're right. She was
buried really deep in mud and itwas wet and you know everything. They

(11:24):
couldn't even figure out how she died, but they found a stone. Interesting.
Yeah, very very interesting. Onthe second part of that question,
you asked my theories on who maybe involved, again purely speculation. I
think of someone local to the area. They have to do you feel like
that's based on where the bodies werefound that makes you feel like that,

(11:48):
or is there something else that you'dlike to mention that makes you feel like
that, Because we were saying thesame thing that obviously it wasn't just a
random dump off. The way thatthese people, these girls are found,
and where they're found and how they'refound, most of these legers are found
in extremely rural areas back roads toget there. Only I say, only

(12:11):
local people or somewhere familiar with thearea would know how rule this is.
You know, if they were dumpingjust right off state highways, it could
be anybody going down to interstate orState or US Highway. But some of
these ladies being found on rule backroads, it's usually locals that know these
roads, right, And can Iask you another question. I was reading

(12:33):
a news article today and this isthe same news article I think it was
from the Oklahoman when they had interviewedan investigators saying they were going to get
the profiler to do a profile ofthe killer. But they also mentioned that
they believed that all the girls kneweach other or at least had common acquaintances.

(12:56):
So I had not read that before, and that kind of triggered in
me the whole theory, you know, going back to the stone and someone
that they knew. How can anybodystill think that it's somebody just random,
Because every time I read something,it seems like they are conflicting opinions within

(13:16):
law enforcement of who it could beor how it's connected. But this one
definitely said that, you know,he had the whole team. I guess
of investigators believe that all the girlsknew each other. So to me,
it's like, you know, ifit's someone that they knew, how are
we not narrowing this down after twentysome years. I think part of its

(13:39):
fear you know, Lawton is roughlyone hundred thousand people. But in the
big scheme of things and in thecircles that these girls ran together, it's
not unheard of for them to knoweach other. And I've seen several articles
where one knew the other. Hotto Sandra was leaving Pound because she was
afraid she was next. She hadto have some knowledge to be afraid.

(14:03):
It's not unheard of for me tobe investigating somebody or talking to somebody and
they'll know someone across county lines inanother city. Because of the drug trade
and the prostitution. They know eachother. They've had some running, they
worked these clubs together. You know, one hundred thousand people is really not
that big, you think for sure? Then in your opinion, I don't

(14:26):
know if it wors in your mouth, but that it's definitely not like a
trucker or somebody random, I don'tthink so. No, if it is
he's local, I don't think so. The stone, I'm telling you this
whole series is going to be theone thing I go back to because I
am picturing a pair of earrings thatI have that have stones in them,

(14:46):
and they are so tiny that there'sjust no way. And I remember the
nineties earrings, the stones were notthat big. So I just keep going
back to Commons where it says thatperson put a stone on this girl.
Her body was found in mud whoknows how deep, and there's a tiny

(15:09):
stone and nothing else mentioned about that, Like it's not even a big deal.
But I'm telling you that it tome, that is a huge,
a huge deal to me, Iagree with that, just because of the
fact of the elements, like howmany times did it rain out there?
And the stone somehow is still foundon the body, or even remotely close

(15:33):
to it for that matter, that'sjust really odd. I agree. And
she disappeared. It looks like whatNovember of ninety nine Cassandra did and was
found in March. That's typically forsouthern Oklahoma. We get we get rain
on Oscar and at tom Yeah,I mean two thousand, I'd have to
go back and look at weather data, but I'm sure we had rain there

(15:54):
that Tom Free and her being foundright by the creek or under a bridge,
there was plenty of moisture. That'snot a big creek. It goes,
it's more of a draw. It'snot a big creek. Have you
had any sort of communication with thefamilies of any of these girls. I

(16:15):
have not. Do you know ifthey are still actively involved in trying to
figure this out. I don't knowif you've heard even though you haven't talked
to them, or if you evenjust know that they are still involved.
Just looking at comments that has beenmade on Facebook posts, I believe it
was Jane's sister. She's still activelylooking for answers. Some of the ladies

(16:40):
their parents have passed on. It'sbeen that long and without going into future
cases. One in particular, shelived long enough to give it to be
an a sample that was able toidentify her daughter. She passed before that
identification came through, and I don'tknow the status on any other family members.
I guess my heart hurts for thesewomen that have the kids. I

(17:03):
mean, obviously it's sat all theway around, but the kids that don't
have a mom that hits home,and that really hurts to feel like they
just don't know what happened. Andif you know, are they still looking
for answers, because to me,that would be something that I would love
to figure out for them. It'sheartbreaking to think of, you know,

(17:25):
these kids grew up without a momand hearing all the speculation and the rumors
surrounding their death or disappearances. Youknow, they've had to grow up with
them and they probably just won't havesome concrete truth to hold onto of something
that's actually real, that it's factual. And it's like these people can't get
it together without the pride getting inthe way, and that that actually really

(17:48):
just gets to me because I justsee these kids and I'm in my head,
you know, I'm thinking, wow, but it must be like to
just wonder what happened to your momwithout knowing, and it's very sad,
heartbreaking. It just bombles my mindto understand why, you know, back
on the protein want be so populto not ask or not give any help

(18:12):
from anybody else helps alas, right, I mean, this is you went
into public service. This isn't somethingthat is a a private job. Even
then, it's like to me apissing match, right, who cares?
Come on, stop flexing your muscles. This has nothing to do with you
personally. If you don't have theresources to fix it, and the FBI

(18:36):
does let them do it, Andthat frustrates me so badly because I just
put myself in these kid's shoes,and it's I mean, I can't imagine
how they feel. I feel likeI would be like beating down the doors
of all of the police departments,like every day, do something about this,
like you know, where's my mom? I can guarantee if it was
one of their kids, it'd bea totally different scenario. Of course,

(19:02):
almost definitely, what I will saycaveat to that. In the last few
years working relationships between departments has gottenbetter. But in the meantime, it's
not healthy's girls, and that's whereit needs to be. You know,
even in the their death, thereneeds to be closure somewhere twenty something years

(19:22):
later and even into the present withthe ones you know that we're not going
to even have time to go into. You know, early on, because
of the lifestyle that these ladies lived, there was a lot of the proper
word, because of the last stylethey lived. The people that should have

(19:44):
cared didn't care because they were andI quote just dopers or just prostitutes,
you know, push from on theback burner. We're not actively looking until
all of a sudden we have ahandful and it's like, oh crap,
we've got a problem. And eventhen they still didn't like calling outside help
or you know, calling the policedepartment saying, hey, we found a

(20:07):
body in Jersey County where she wasfrom Watton. It didn't seem like across
anybody's mind to start digging in needinginformation. Hey, let's get together,
let's share, let's talk what's goingon here. Nobody wanted to talk.
Well, that makes me feel multipleways, because it makes me feel like
nobody wants to talk. Do theyknow who it is or is it you

(20:30):
know, Also just the pride,there's so many different theories in my mind
that just run around, you know, thinking, well, obviously the person's
from here, like we all agreeon that, and what's the reason that
it's not being covered like it shouldbe, And any of the news articles
that come out about it just seemedto be interviewed by people that want to

(20:53):
let's just you know, placate thepeople that are reading, just for long
enough to where nobody cares anymore forthe next five years. Then we'll do
another interview and just say, hey, we're going to get someone so to
help us, and never actually followthrough. That's a good point, because
that's one of the things that bothersme, because you know, law enforcement

(21:15):
aside whether or not their jurisdictions workwell together, there's still no active or
hugely active people reporting on this inthe news. I've noticed that many people
from around that area that have contactedme or have started following the podcast recently

(21:37):
have all said the same thing.There's very rarely do I hear somebody say,
yeah, I've I've wondered about this, I remember when this happened.
Most people say, I live anhour from Lawton, and I have never
heard of any of this, Likethis should be all over the news,
whether it was twenty years ago orwhether there's still girls popping up missing or

(22:00):
whatever the case is. And thesethere are older people who were around twenty
years ago watching the news every night, you know, the local news and
everything like that. All of themor say the same thing pretty much,
is that how was this not allover the news? You know? Like
I said, law enforcement aside.That bothers me quite a bit as well.

(22:22):
Hopefully this podcast will bring some sortof you know, publicity to it
so that people start questioning, hey, this happened in my backyard, or
hey I never heard of that.Let me see if I know something,
you know that's gone on there,or know somebody that might know something.
Oh that's what I hope, youknow. Back on either friends or the

(22:42):
people they worked with in the beginning, I think they were scared. They
were scared to say anything, Scaredthey're going to be next or if they
came out on the open, wouldthey be jacked with for running dope,
for running you know, running inprostitution. You know, they were scared
too different ways. I could seethat. I don't know that as a

(23:03):
fact, but I could see thatbeing a problem in their minds. Maybe
now people will come forward and sayI do this, I do remember her,
you know, come up with something. Yeah, I mean I can
understand that too. A lot ofpeople, even to this day, when
it comes to any sort of crime, the stigma behind talking is still such

(23:25):
a big deal, and a lotof people still fear for them their life
for talking about anything, you know, that could be dangerous to them.
I totally understand, you know,why not coming forward, But after this
long, if anybody knows anything,I would just hope that, you know,
they could anonymously come forward and feellike, hey, nobody is gonna

(23:47):
you know say who you are.You don't have to say who you are,
but if you have any information,like let's give these kids and these
families and closure about where their momsor sisters or daughters went. Who took
our lives from them exactly? Andyou know it's been twenty two years to
strange, Shaft and Dodd. Iam Cassandra. The people they worked with

(24:10):
brand with. Who knows if theywas still alive? With the lost all
they lived, the circles they readthem. I don't know if any of
them were even alive. I'm bettingto believe there's somebody there, somebody that
knows something would hope, even ifthey might not be alive. Maybe they
told somebody and that person knows.I agree. I don't know. That's

(24:33):
about all the questions I have forOfficer Anonymous. How about you, Christina.
I appreciate you coming to talk tous. I really enjoyed it.
I'm glad Joe Cold maybe think Ican help out just Colly outstanding. It's
much appreciated, and hopefully after twothree more episodes, we can have you

(24:55):
on again for some some more clarification. When we get some more stuff some
of the other cases Girl all right, thank you very much.