278 - John "Scrum King" Fogarty

In life you'll rarely get an opportunity to be graced by royalty. Well thankfully on this episode we have just such an honour in the well-toned shape of His Majesty John Fogarty, the Ireland team's scrum coach. (my God this was fun)
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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Well, what's the crack everybody?How are you getting on? Welcome to
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(00:21):
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(01:02):
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(02:09):
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(02:52):
that's all the news. Go listen. You want to find out more,
go have a gander in the shownotes. There you go, go have
a gander in the show notes ofan on today's guest. He's returning.
He's returning. One of the mostfun people you can hang out with and
talk about burly men. God damnit. I love chat with this guy.

(03:13):
He's one of the greatest. He'sa last son of Tipperary, but
still more of our pride and joys. It's John the scrum King Fogarty properly
and trone. That's the first ofhis name. Yeah, I suppose you
have first. Yeah, first ofhis name, ruler of the seven parishes
around cashul and the one true scrumKing. It's John Fogerty. Back on

(03:34):
the podcast, back back and incolor, live and in color. You
look great, you look healthy.I well, well, it's I'm glad
it's from here. Eat, Ieat my way through stress. Well,
I've just I've just went out toSouth Africa. I was out South Africa
for five days with with Ulster.Oh yeah, yeah, just to just

(03:59):
to to super the scrum just theKing has scrumb out in Africa scrumb So
yeah, five days, a bitof sun and I've just come back from
Kerry. Well that's that's where yougot it. Maybe it's Theerry, Sorry,
maybe it's the Kerry. We actuallyhad two nice days. What's that?
Yeah? Lovely? Yeah, Sohow was how was South Africa?
And Scrummogen with them lads? That'sgood. It's a good group, a

(04:23):
couple of good good few weeks ago. I was asked to help out and
it was a it was a nobrainer. It's a good group of lads
up there, Hendy and Tom O'Tooleand Tom Stewart and Rob Herring. I've
worked with them with Ireland and wasasked to go out and I was asked
to go up and do maybe oneday a week sort of thing. So

(04:45):
yeah, it was an no brainer. It was. It was brilliant.
Yeah, it was great. Anddid a couple of sessions and was in
Turban and Cape Town. Cape Town'sgorgeous, you know. So a bit
of sun and you know the gamesthey didn't they didn't win the games,
but getting there, you know,which was screazy. This is a question
I want to ask you, Like, even if the scroll the game has

(05:08):
gone pure shit like, but thescrums are going class. Can you is
there some inside your head you golook at that, just say it like
you're always happy when your part goeswell, but yeah, you're always happy
when your part as well. Therewe go. It looks shot us.

(05:30):
Afterwards you can kind of swam aroundlike you know, and you're kind of
going, well, you know,you're welcome. I did my bit.
So when since we last talked,you won the Grand Slam, Six Nations
A series went down South Africa,the World Cup went well to a point,
you know, and then you wantanother six names. I'm just saying

(05:53):
things turned fairly class after the lastpodcast. That's coincidence. I don't know,
you see, it's been a madit's been a mad couple of months.
The yeah, I think, lookgenuinely, I'm in with such a
good group of guys that are coachingwith Ireland, and there's there's a brilliant

(06:15):
mix of youte and experience and Iknow Johnny's finished up now, but but
the run into the World Cup,you know, then the series been down
in New Zealand and all that stuffwas was was incredible. The team has
grown the whole time and the energycoming from the younger lads and then this

(06:36):
kind of you know, Johnny wasJohnny was determined to make his his final
moments in in an Irish Jersey sosuccessful and and he he and he did,
he did, he he He drovethe team forward to so many successes
and it's it is disappointing we didn'tget it done in when it mattered in

(06:56):
the World Cup. But you know, it's a journey and we're in a
we're in a good place now tokeep keep moving forward, you know,
because I I well, I've I'mgood friend with Anna k Plist. We
have a podcast or rugby podcast whereit's it's rugby adjacent. It's mostly me
Courson through the whole thing, andshe actually talking technically about rugby. That's
kind of the mixture, and peopleseem to be able to tolerate. But

(07:16):
she's agreeing with me and a fewpeople didn't that, like not to drag
up all ground, but like thattwo of those tries in the New Zealands
goored with forward passes. I don'tcare. I don't care. I can
be but ignorant so you don't haveit. You can be really that,
but I can be both ignorant aboutit and the fact that you didn't cut
my head off there, well,you saw too. I think like you

(07:41):
can't depend on you know, youcan only depend on on on on yourselves
in how you prepare the team andhow the team perform on the day that
the players. We can't leave itto a referee or to a TMO or
anything else. You've got to getthe job done. So all that stuff
you can kind of look back andgo Jesus, But but you know,

(08:03):
the reality is, I think thefirst twenty minutes of that game, you
know, we went through it.We had to go through with as coaches.
It was very painful. We camewe all came together. When did
you do that? And we broughtus together and it was up in the
Viva Stadium and he goes, right, lads, let's let's let's do it.
Let's and we watched the entire gameand you could hear groans. You

(08:24):
know, the first few moments ofthe game, there was there was a
couple of penalties and scrum creaked inthe first few moments of the game.
And I'm like Jesus, and youknow, we all as individual coaches had
our moments where we're kind of we'reputting our hands to our faces and you
know, you go through it,you take the you take, you picked
through it so that you can figureout, you know what it is we

(08:45):
can do better. And and itwas it was it was tough work,
but it's rough going. It wasgood. It was good, It was
good, and yeah, we're ina good place. Well, I suppose
like to make a fight or analogybecause I often think a lot of sports
can be brought straight back to boxingor straight back to fighting or whatever because
the simplicity of that. But younever wait for the judge's decision. You
knocked the fucker out and that's that, like you know what I mean exactly

(09:09):
exactly. And look, with thelads had built so much momentum, there
was so much confidence and belief goinginto the game. And you know,
there's a few moments in that firsttwenty minutes where we concede too many points.
We were a little bit ill disciplined, and we didn't get out of
blocks like we have done in thein the other games. But to come

(09:31):
back, I think we were apoint or two behind at halftime, so
to get knocked back, but comeback and be appoint view before halftime,
then concede a few really tries inthe second half, but come back again.
The character of the team is offthe charts, so it's it's the
smallest margins sometimes in those types ofgames. And it didn't happen. It

(09:52):
didn't happen, and you need toyou need to own that as a group
and you know, individually and asa group, and that's we went through
a process of figuring things out togetheras a group and yeah, yeah,
you move forward and move on again. That's that's all you can do,
isn't it. I think people whatpeople really like and what the messages we

(10:13):
get from the podcast because we werein an awful way, like you know
what I mean, and I wasbeing very dramatic through the whole thing on
the podcast. I want I've beenvery dramatic, and at the end of
it, we made the analogy thatat the time and the Ireland team were
like an ex boyfriend, like butthat you're still mad about life. But
and you might every so often,you know, just you check that,

(10:35):
like he checked your story and stufflike that on Instagram, and I might
stand outside his bedroom window get ablaster over your head. But ultimately so
yeah's trying not to get too excited. Look, you can trust me,
come back in. It's okay,don't worry, we look after you a

(10:56):
god your song dancer and fairness toyou did, but you know what,
people were messaging and going and Istick with fairness. But come to Six
Nations, it was like, ah, turns out we're actually still totally class,
you know what I mean. Itwas there was like the hangover would
have been expected, but it waslike, ah, class, we're back

(11:16):
together again, like you know,and you know, I can move I
can move my my you know,start wearing your hoodie again and stuff like
that. Yeah, it was itwas. I think everyone everyone in the
group was looking forward to the SixNations because again, like there was Andy

(11:37):
is Andy is brilliant at framing,framing mentally framing the lads and I don't
think he needed to do that toomuch, but he still is brilliant at
doing that to make sure that everyone'son the same page and forward focused around
what it is this group can achieve. And like every everyone was hungry to
do something meaningful in that Six Nationsand at the very beginning. But what

(12:01):
a what a what a brilliant startto have to go over there. And
I hadn't been to that stadium beforewhen I was talking to a few of
the lads and they were saying,oh my god, this is amazing.
This this this stadium and the Frenchthe atmosphere that the French people down in
the south of France that that theythat they will put put into the stadium
will be. It will be offthe charts. And the team were so

(12:22):
focused leading into that first game,and you know, say what you want
about France kind of missing DuPont andand into mac and not maybe getting they
were going through the same thing.Are we getting over the World Cup?
But the lads hit the ground running. Jack Crowley did a brilliant job.
I'm sure he was under some pressuresheet, you know. So the lads

(12:43):
were brilliant. Joe McCarty, soagain an injection of a body, you
to a bit of energy from afew places and the same old faces producing
the goods you know in Kaylan Dowrisonand a few others in Pete and so
yeah, it was. It wasa brilliant start, a brilliant, brilliant
start. It must be class foryou, like especially you know when you've
got somebody's like Joe or whatever,and he's like, it's kind of it's

(13:03):
almost like a beer moment. Doyou know what I mean? Isn't this
like stand back, I don't carewhat's going before me? Watch this?
Do you know? He goes truckand that is some size of like for
a white guy. That is ahuge human. My god, Like,
we don't we don't turn out whitefellows that big, like not in Ireland
then we don't. You know whatthe mothers from cash? I do you

(13:24):
know what I knew thers. Iknew there was something. I knew there
was something. So yeah, he'sa look, big personality, big fella,
and you know he's he's so he'she's got a long way to go,
you know. The coach the coachesare working so closely with him to
make sure performances are on track andhe's gaining and all that stuff. But

(13:48):
what a barrel of energy. Andhe don't off the pitch in the gym.
He's Jason Cammon looks after all thelads sc wise and he says,
you know, any any time he'sdoing his way to the group, that
he's that Joe's in is is buzzing'you know they're they're they're buzzing off each
other and there's always against lifting.And he's competitive, he's young, he's

(14:09):
finding his way, he's Irish,and even better, he's from Tipperary.
So it's no, no, that'sgood enough. That's you can't do better,
you can't do better. No,no, that's good enough. I
think like Tiger Marnon when he camedown to Monster that time from Scarletts,
I was like, oh, wait, your mother some care. That's the
finest. That's the finest. No, yeah, exactly. So we're only

(14:33):
about seven minutes in John and we'vealready managed to get to Tipperary already.
Yeah, the county. I thinksince I was talking to you last,
i've moved here. Have we movedhere at this at the last time I
was here the concussion, I can'tI can't remember you. I think you
were were you would possibly I'd say, we're only just after Landon, I'd

(14:54):
say at the time. But it'sthank god the young flacitive accent now does
he he does? What was hedescribed something as? It was fair good
anyway, godzilla, fair good,fair good bye, fair good Well you
think like some of his first words, John, when we were living in

(15:15):
very very South Dublin, We're like, absolutely, yeah, we have to
now. And I've got four daughtersand you better believe they speak very,
very very well entertainment. So I'msure one of them is hearing me up
there now she's going to be likedads. But yeah, yeah, we're

(15:35):
in the take of it. Yeah, because Luke Lucas jer actually got in
contact after the last one because youwould have gone on about Lukey calling you.
Yeah you got yeah, he lives. He lives around the corner.
Actually I'm surrounded by them. She'sfair play to you by Yeah, hold
on my own. That's something going. And you still have an accent,

(15:56):
thank god, thank god, youknow what I mean to be an awful
thing. A few started started leaninginto that, that kind of oh god,
no, I can't even I couldn'tpicture with your head. I couldn't
picture, I couldn't do. Youknow what I was. I was impressed
throughout the any of themediate is thatyou were on some of that that seemed,
you know, very sporty in Look, this is what you're getting,

(16:18):
and you know, we'll review thetape and we'll go back and win.
The usual old scutter like and sure, in fairness to him, yes,
in fairness to them, you knowwhat you have to do. You know
that's not that's not my job,and this is all you're getting out of
me. But yeah, fair therewas a bit of like development and animation
in you, like you know,you'll go just you'd sit up and watch
John. Not just because I knowyou're whatever, but it was like there's
something you're very I like your handsmove, your hands move nicely. Well.

(16:42):
Actually, my cousins, I'm ina I mean a WhatsApp group with
all my cousins. There's there's there'stoo many of them in cash, right,
and that's all I get. Willyou stop moving your hands? And
I am, I am very animated, but like I'm feeling it as I'm
talking, you know what I mean. I'm kind I'm kind of I'm I'm

(17:03):
buzzing thinking of the lads, thinkingof the team, and I'm and I
can't stop. I can't stop doingit at all, like I need to
just so you see in this ActuallyI'm I'm holding my hand like that now.
But it's it's it's it's I can'texplain what, why, why it's
happening. I like it. Ilike it. It kind of reminds me
of did you ever see Talladega Nightsand Ricky Bobby didn't know what to do

(17:25):
with his hand. I don't knowwhat to do with my hands. They
sent on to me the whole timewhere he is that that, oh yeah,
I'll get a grip of it.I'll get a grip of it.
No, No, because then tocurse as well if if I'm really getting
into something, maybe in the paperstuff, I do it where I'm like,
you know, like I think it'sjust very fucking important, and then

(17:47):
I go, please don't, please, don't put the put the put the
put the in, just take itout and take it out. Person.
In this day and age, it'slike it's almost like the Emperor's new clothes
are all pretending that we all don'tcurse still to this day, Like do
you know what I mean? Likeit's my mother, I'd be like Jesu

(18:07):
read and should go leave leave outthe John John. Yeah, so it's
it's more. It's more than mother. Yeah, No, I get you
know, I completely understand that,but no, I will I've ruined that
my mother seen my stand up,so shi, yeah, the should I
say, like, man, youcan't, you can't like even the the

(18:30):
other well, I knew we hadmade a succession when we when we succeeded
by bringing the un float down.There was a moment and you'll appreciate it.
He wanted to go out playing withthe ball outside. He's maybe two
and a half, and he hadn'theard any course words at this stage.
And I was going to choose,maybe we've done well, maybe he hasn't
heard me course and now maybe andin this one particular moment started flogging rain

(18:52):
now, and so he looked outto wind the lean back when fucking ray,
Oh, I know that feeling.You can't get angry at it either,
because he's a hundredercent right fucking right. Yeah, there's no here we
go again and rain. But you're, like you were saying, I'm just
saying, you look well like youdo? You look right? Are you

(19:15):
eating what the buys eat when you'rein camp? Like I'm eating what the
buoys eat, I'm eating the sameportions that the boys eat. I'm I'm
eating more than what the boys eat. It's yeah, it's it's like I
see it as a sign of health, like Simon needs to be. I'd

(19:38):
be worried about his health. He'sa pencil of him. Man, he's
only a shadow of the man heused to be. Yeah, a good
like a really bad cold could gethim. And I keep saying to him.
So I'd go in the morning andI look at him and go,
all right, is everything okay?And he'd be like, I'm fine,
Why I'm not, You're just hedoes have a very god look about him.

(19:59):
All right, yeah, very gonefirst first, and he'd sagged me
for being a little bit rotund,and I'd say, look, I'm ready.
I'm ready for what's going what lifeis going to throw at me in
the future. But you know,who knows. If the climate the way
it is now, who knows what'sgoing to happen. And my body is
ready for it. I'm nesting ina way, but healthy nesting. You're

(20:21):
you're pre apocalypting is what you're doing, like because you never know, you
may have to eat Simon needs tobe at some stage, or use him
as a battering ram to get outof a situation. Oh yeah, exactly,
exactly. A bag of bones.Yeah, like, yeah, I'm
I don't know I'm doing I'm doinglittle bits. I wouldn't say I'm doing
a lot. I generally have ahave a fairly optimistic view of of just

(20:45):
about anything. If if things aregoing crap, I'll find a way to
find a positive spill in it.You know, you know, you know,
sure look sure looking. That shouldbe your your one your one go
to when thes around here you haveto sit down, share should look at
that should look like that's that's kindof the way. But and we'll find

(21:07):
a way and and like, honestly, that's I think that's what that's the
way I think generally, So likeI'll say to myself, I'll eventually lose
a few pounds and you know,I'll get there. But I wouldn't like
I would like to be like Simonor a bit skinny. Now as we
well, do you know what Isaid it to myself from the stage,
because you're fully in power when you'reon the stage and nothing can be said

(21:29):
to you like at all Now Isaid him, as Paul, please don't
turn side with We'll have to markyou absent. What has happened to Paul?
If we put a red tie inthe front. You would call your
thermometer. What the fuck is He'slike, well, he's put waight back
on. Not enough, not no. You know, for a hero,
heroic person, you can't change.You have to look like that forever.
In fact, cosmetically, you're goingto actually have to get surgery to stay

(21:52):
looking like you even in your nineties. I'm sorry, Yeah, no,
Keith Rles was one hundred percent inagreement. He's that. Yeah, look
me, I looked like I didwhen I when I was playing a week
ago. Again again, I'd worryabout him a small bit, but I'm
you know, I'm helping him along, helping him along to good. You
know, I'm there for them.But that's it, keep them filled out
and whatnot. He yeah, yeah, he enjoyed. He enjoyed. He

(22:15):
does like he enjoyed getting the headtaken off him. In fairness to to
he was. He loved it.He loved it. He came back.
Jesus, there's a lever cad AndI know you know well that he was
brilliant. But that is the bestproduct I have ever heard. That is

(22:36):
the fucking best. That him clippingthat that is the best part. He
then say to me, I donot sound like that, but he does.
But he loved it. He hereally did, He really loved He
was saying, was it Barry anddoes does it just near where he lives
in Castle Castle, Troy? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. The hotel they
were with a couple of couple ofnights was eventually I think they were trying

(22:57):
to crow bar it in between abunch of other mus gigs and stuff like
that. I was kind of gone, Okay, we'll try and run a
monthly thing here, but I thinkyou've already loaded your plate a bit too
much, but we'll give it ago. And in fairness, what what
I love? And I remember workingon an acting coach years ago, and
he's loved anybody that's ever played sportsbecause you don't ask questions. You're like
fucking robots. He says. It'sgreat because anything. The stupid shit he

(23:18):
was getting me to do it wasShakespeare and standard, right. But they
have you going around like a gorillaon the ground and everything whatever you can
mimic. You just have to bethe best at it like and that's that,
whereas others others were just kind ofstanding back, Now, where what
is the grill eating today and wheredo you know, where's his emotional state?
And I'm running around on all fourslike trying to ship in the walls

(23:40):
and do you know what? Straightin, straight in, But that's what
the man said. So it waslike rip into it, all right,
But it's the way then the firstnight the club in in Cask because I
went up and I met Barry andPaul upstairs and Keith upstairs and we're chatting
away on us right front row's obviously, and you say that to people,

(24:02):
but they never do. They neverwill go to the front row, especially
if they've ever seen anything of me. Ever, Paul was like, look,
yeah, all right, yeah,and he was like, I'm fucking
not he was, he was allright, and we went down. There's
still no way that I believe him. And everybody was congregating everywhere. Bar
in the front row as like Paulwere kicking this off in two minutes because

(24:26):
can we bring points? Jesus Christ, of course you can bring points.
This is actually everything is secondary topints in here. Me telling jokes is
secondary, right, And you justsee this human, this giant human,
get even taller and go, ohbut and these everybody else was like,
all O'Connell, I guess we betterfill the front row. So and everybody
went with him. It's just theyfollowed him because it's Paul O'Connell. Why

(24:48):
wouldn't you. But yeah, itwas a couple of they were. He
was great and was great to supportit. I think he was. They
were more fascinated because they'd no graspof what they obviously had seen the odd
stand up a huge show, butthey've never seen a club style night where
everybody's getting done everybody. That's whathe said. He said, it was
remarkable how you could pick people apartand ask a few questions and next thing

(25:12):
he said he was in stitches andhe said like he was just picking people
apart and knocking him down. Itwas, it was. It was brilliant.
So that a great night. Soyeah, there was at a different
night. That was the second.That was the second or second night I
think came on with him and poorl k oh god, he got absolutely
annihilated. Like he's too big andtoo massive to not he's some man.

(25:34):
He's some entertainer as well, tobe fair, do you know what?
But you can you feel that energyoff him, like do you know what
I mean when somebody, if somebodyhas their arms folded and there staring at
the ground, You're like, thisis going to be a comedy cula's act.
Like you know. Also you canpunch up on somebody, you know,
you can punch up on somebody who'ssix three and built like a fucking
oak tree. Do you know whatI mean? A pint looks like a

(25:56):
child's cup in his hand, likeexactly. Yeah, that was what like
it's an old it's an old gag, like, but there was there was
He had his foot on the stageas union here, how long you and
show with Stephen? Oh? Well, you know, well if you're not
get your fucking foot off my stage. I thought I kind of nearly punched
the missus never been beside him.He was laughing so hard, like the

(26:17):
head flying all over the place.I was like, Thank Christ, he
likes it anyway, Jesus Christ,you know, but it's it's he was
fascinated by He's one of those people, didn't he like? He came up
and he just whizzed me from dayone to now and all the facets.
How do you go about it?That's that's Paul though, isn't it Like
he's he's brilliant. He he's brilliant. He puts so much time into like

(26:44):
even the conversations you'll have. Youknow, he'll put so much time into
thinking about what what what the rightthing to do is, works so hard
and watches so much tape and fromfrom across, from across, you know,
Super Rugby, Top fourteen, Premiership, your ce, you name it.

(27:06):
I have to find to find waysto help the lads understand this is
what one hundred percent looks like,this is what we're after and help them
along their way, you know.And he can do it in a you
can do it in a way wherethey they really know he's helping him to
get better. But he and hecan also do it in a way where
he's he's making it really really clear, you know, where he's really direct

(27:26):
clear. So I mean it's he'she's brilliant. He's absolutely brilliant. I'm
learning so much from being around someonelike Paul, because because I'll you know,
I'll be a little bit, I'llbe I'll be different up all the
time thinking about it. Look aboutjust you're like myself, you just rich

(27:49):
something. It's just like Let's seewhat we got, lads, Let's see
what we got. I think,can we do this today? Wait a
minute, Wait a minute, weda second, Hold on a second.
Yeah, it's for six months.Wee. I literally just woke up this
morning and now we're doing it.Yeah, we're doing it. Let's do
it. Yeah. So no,he's brilliant, brilliant for me and good
for the lads. And yeah,I have to ask a question, because

(28:11):
do you talk about now I know, the last day, I don't know
if you ever employed it. Thelast time we talked, I suggest maybe
getting a mechanics trolley to roll underneaththe front road that scrumb so you could
look back up at the lads seewhat they're doing. I don't know if
you ever did that. You know, in the World Cup we put a

(28:32):
we put a GoPro in there,and we put a GoPro in there to
see where so right in the middleof this roone to see where hookers were,
what the square And you waited tothe World Cup. I told you
this two years ago, to getunder there on on a mechanics tralogy.
I don't listen. I don't listen. I told you that I'm just in
my head. I met I metit up myself, so I obviously clearly
heard yours you say it. It'srolled around in my head for a couple

(28:56):
of months, and then I justwas like, God, Yeah, the
lads hated it, by the way, did they. Yeah? They were
like, Fox, I can't Ican't consentate. All I can do is
keep seeing the thing. I'm afraidthat you fall on it. So then
I was like, get it outof there. That, by the way,
that was tom a Manny's idea.Yeah, because the talk, like

(29:18):
for the longest time was was AndrewPorter's ars. My god, to talk
about one man's arse, and it'sa noble size art, you know,
because of being a front row yougotta have you got to have a big
anchor, like you know what Imean to to throw into But they talk
about that man's arse moving out theway and in the way. I think
I think they over talked about us. Yeah, and I think referees probably
were focused on it more than theyshould have been. It was Jlo for

(29:44):
during the mid two thousands. Itwas a pain of my ass them focusing
on his ass. But you know, he's what what if he's he's an
incredible another, he's an incredible player. We're so lucky to have someone like
Andrew. He's a horse, Jesushorse, he's built. Yeah, and
no Titan really wants to take himon in a fair scrap you know what

(30:07):
I mean, of course, soyou need to work a little angle to
to get him to move into likea fucking Marvel character for fo he's got.
He's full of power, full ofpower. So yeah, like he's
he's we're learning all the time,and he's someone that's He's had a very
good six Nations this this time round. I think there was one or two

(30:30):
games, there's four or five penaltiesat scrum time. I think he's he's
in a he's in a good place. I know he'll be playing against Len
Lester or I think Opinians Lester ina couple of days times. So yeah,
look forward to seeing them back inEuropean action. Will be good to
see the the had you anything todo with Peter Omani popping his elbow back

(30:53):
up again? Did you see thatthey did the rounds? No, it
was the it was the ultimate deadmoment, was like we'll just pushed the
elbow back up there son, thereyou go. Here's the most dead thing
ever. It was so lovely.In fact, I said to him,
I said, you don't need todo that, But he did it anyway
because he's helping it. He's helping. He's made out. You know that's

(31:15):
Peter, isn't it. Like,yeah, he's trying to he's trying to
do the right thing for for thefella next to him. You know,
he's brilliant. He's brilliant. Yeah, okay, okay, okay, but
in his head he's like, nochance, I'm doing it. I don't
give a fuck. Yeah. Itwas brilliant. Yeah, tapping, tapping

(31:36):
the elbow up, just just alittle moment of deadness, just going no,
no, no, that's going backup there. Yeah. Imagine saying
that to like a human, ahuman build like that that, you know,
come on, Yeah, yeah,brilliant. Yeah. I don't know
what sort of reception he'll give anybodyelse, Jesus Christ, to some going

(31:57):
to go that man's lawn, LikeI couldn't believe it, genuine he couldn't
believe he's down there with the scissors, like like Pete. Yeah, for
Bundy, well, actually I couldbelieve it. Bundy sure, he's he's
alone to himself, Bundy. Hewas clearly very excited and he's been egged
down by the crowd. You see, yah, the crowd of people around

(32:20):
him, and they were like,yeah, buddy, yeah, this has
been brilliant. There was a momentI can read eyes right fairly well from
around the room, that's how Ido it. Right now, I'm looking
at him and there's a moment,even tough in all his Bundy he is,
there's a moment where he's like,fuck fu. So much of it
came up, but yeah, hedug a bit up, didn't he.
Yeah, yeah, but sure you'rein for a penny, in for a

(32:42):
pound at that stage, like youknow what I mean. Yeah, yeah,
he's remarkable. It's a brilliant thing. After the six apter, the
sixth Nations, the captain will havethe lads to the house and you know,
there's such a good group, honestlythat there's such a brilliantroup. They'll
go back to hate each other whenthey're playing against you other, yea,
which is the right thing to do, but they look after each other like
that. And Pete, Pete hadhim down to his house after I think

(33:05):
Robbie. Robbie had a wedding inCashle Yes, and and I think they
were halfway down the road, sothey kept going and down to Pete for
points and burgers. Apparently, imagineLeftn letting those buffaloes through your house like
a fellow who'll be fairly I said, the house to be fairly pristine.
Do you know what I mean?Pete's house, you could turn you like
that, you know, yeah,uncle, uncle, uncle Pete. What

(33:30):
so? What was because I'd hearda few players during the World Cup kind
of saying, well, whose masterof ceremonies when it comes to crack And
they were like, folks, folkslike you have to coin. David kill
Coyn is one hundred percent the masterceremonies. I'm I'm an organizer of games
that they have cracked with. Okay, right, right, right? And

(33:51):
why are you searching for games?There was like, yeah, sometimes I'll
sometimes I'll be sometimes there's lows yourmind, so you so so once a
week, so usually on a Tuesday, the team has been announced and there's
a little bit of you know,it's there's a little bit of tension some
some of the players know they're goingto be you know, playing for Ireland
the weekend. That brings its ownbit of stress, and then there's other

(34:13):
lads that have missed out and andso on. So this it's generally a
day where but there's a little bitof stress around the place. So tell
us all. But you know,we we fast fast talked about having crack
and we did it. I didit in Leinster. We called it a
competition day, but it's called crackingin Ireland. And I've done I've done

(34:37):
like I've done top Bins. Wedid a hurlan thing where they where they
were soloing and keeping the keeping theslitter on the hurley in and out through
things and over the bar, andcompetitive games down to the ridiculous but blind
man's bluff, three legged races,you name it. We've done just about

(34:59):
anything. So i'll i'll, I'llbe the one going, okay, this
is what we're doing this. Theteams are broken up into four teams and
they all have their own they havetheir own chance and shouting and roaring and
and they'll come together. This isthe game. This is what we're going
to do. Off you go.Now I tend to explain it. So
Paul says, and Andy, Itend to explain it sort of okay,

(35:22):
and there's a little bit of there'sbits left out that lead to chaos.
Yeah, you can only picture abunch of fellows who are competitive anyway,
if it was an egg spoon raceexactly. We've we've done that. We've
done an Eggan spoon race where whereyou're constantly looking at someone like Jamison,
who's who's trying to cheat the wholetime. So then the staff don't help

(35:44):
me monitor, so's it ends upbeing a little bit of chaos. And
that's that's what crack is. There'sa winner at the end of it.
They all cheer and then they goin and Simon needs to be does his
defense, which again is a seriousyou know at the main d D preview
of the week. So they'll gofrom chaotic for shouting and roaring and messing
into sit down and they're ready totake on information. And that's the idea

(36:07):
behind the crack. And we've doneyou name it, We've done it.
Really And sometimes you would be likeI'd be coming down going say we're in
at six thirty or seven o'clock inthe morning, and I'm kind of going
funk. What am I going todo? We've done that, We've done
this, We've done this, I'vedone swissball, tennis too many times.
I counted that again, hide andseek, We've done that. I've thought,

(36:28):
Oh Jesus, what am I goingto do? And I'll start asking
people like a preschool teacher, likeGod, yeah, well color can we
do color? It's raining? Yeah, what do you think? What did
you enjoy? Have you enjoyed anyof the crack things? No? No,
no, fuck's no use to me. What did you enjoy? And
I'm walking around and I'll I'll beasking half the start, and eventually I
get half an idea. That's it, we'll do it, chelten, them's

(36:52):
out. We'll do it. We'lldo a race course thing and we'll it'll
be brilliant. But I do Ido love that. You always, like
medicinally slash formally, need a bitof euphoria before seriousness because it cleans,
cleans the cobwebs out, Like doesn'tit? That's interesting? Like yeah,
it does, and genuinely does.I guess. There's there's various things on

(37:15):
in the day. There might belittle meetings where where where they're taking a
certain amount of concentration from a froma player, and then there's the seriousness
of the week itself, and theyunderstand they're going to be representing their country,
their province, their county, theirfamily, all that stuff. It
adds up, It all adds up, and they have their own little mini
meetings, they have their own conversationsaround play and it's all. It's all

(37:37):
very serious and and in order totake on more sometimes you do need to
just have a just have a laughand do something stupid and it clear it
clears it clears it up a littlebit for them to go and take on
more information. And that's that's theidea behind it. And I initially didn't

(37:59):
like the idea of it because Iwas like, Andy, I don't want
the last thing. I'm a messerand you know I want yeah, of
course, yeah, a serious coach. He was kind of looking at me,
going, right, listen, you'velet the cat out of the bag,
kid, Lady your strengths here,John, come on, lad,
your strength He was kind of lookinglike that, come here. So uh

(38:19):
he said, no, no,no, no, this is important and
and fuck it, let's do it. And it's it's it's it's happening.
I'm going to say it's gone reallyreally well because I'm involved in it.
But I'd say if the players areon here, there'll be going it's ship.
But who cares. I'm on here. So yeah, it was funny
because Paulie was kind of talking aboutit that because we had a very deep
conversation than the very first night atthe comedy club, and she made it

(38:43):
even all the weirder because there wasa I think it came from so left
field from him and early because theyjust had no concept and then they're planked
in front and part of this scenario, so his mind was blown. He
was like, it's just happened.And then pure fluke. There was a
guy who's he's a patron and he'snearly as big as paul He he's a

(39:06):
farmer, but he's a patren tothe podcast and he raises his own Wagyu
beef and he messaged me to go, well, I drop you in some
mate, I'm coming to the showtonight, and I thought he was messing.
And then you're talking to Paula.It was the most bizarre scenario.
I'm talking to Paul O'Connell about standup comedy and how you how you you
know, because you couldn't. Whathe couldn't grasp was how I was able

(39:27):
to break up the whole room andbring him together. And everybody's head comes
off and still people actually like itand like me at the end of it,
and out of nowhere, this blokejust hands in like a five kilo
bag of various meat frozen because sorryTom, how you Paul and just left
it. So now O'Connor's he isabout to explode because he's looking and going

(39:49):
the fuck what just happened? Thisis after the show like this, he
goes, what the fuck? Isaid? Well, he's a patron,
he really likes the podcast and heraised his own so but just Jesus fucking
Christ, Early, who the fuckdo we not know about any of this?
Like because you play rugby man,that's kind of your thing. We
live in a bubble. But hewhat he was referencing that he's the euphoria

(40:12):
that he had was it was nearlylike when they back they back played played
from Unstar where everybody got it.Nothing was safe, everybody just got it
off each other, but it actuallycleared out the decks nicely for each other.
That well, we've said the worstship in the world to each other
now, so I guess we're wecan go play some rugby together, you
know that kind of way. Yeah, the the dressing room is such a

(40:34):
leveler, like it levels the playingfield from the best of the lads to
you know, to the lads thatare on the fringes or are on the
way up. If you can holdyour own in a dress room, you're
you're you're there equal, you know, So it's it's everyone's equal, yes,
and people slagging lads is a brilliantleveler. And and that that that
generally is the that generally is thedressing room, I think in most sports,

(40:57):
you know, but it's such animportant part of it, you know.
And yeah, I think in Munster. I was there for only three
seasons, but it was vicious,but it was hilarious, you know,
hilarious. I used to talk aboutwith Leinster. He's talk about being able
to go in with a with awith a shield and a sword so that
you were able to block and thenattack people with your own communis and constantly
be far and back of people,and then you could you eventually make it

(41:20):
to your seat and then you wereyou were some way safe because you fired
back a few shots and then youknow, you would establish yourself in the
in the room because yeah, he'dsuggests. He was like, well we
could bring you in, you coulddo this with the players as that.
I don't know. I said,it's a good idea, Paul, Yeah,
you said it to me. Yeah, but how do they how what's

(41:43):
that be a great idea? Well, because they've had I know there was
there was a stand up before,and sometimes I think lads would go,
that's the mistake you make. Assometimes lads a stand up, they'll go
to say a scenario like like togo go to the rugby team or the
soccer team whatever, and they'll justgo straight into it like it's their common
But he set yeah, and someof the lads are going, what the
fuck is going on? So ifyou don't establish the elephant in the room,

(42:06):
like the late Late is a perfectexample. When I was, you
know, doing the warm up forthe late lad, they didn't come to
fucking see me, do you knowwhat I mean? The Telly is literally
the real life Telly is is rightbehind my head and they're going, who's
this, Yeah, who's this?Bollocks here for the next fifteen minutes.
Like so I pointed out, Iknow, even know fucking interesting the band
are even more interested in me rightnow, but this is in your best

(42:30):
interest to go along with me becauseI've got a roaming mic and I'm gonna
make bits of you and they're payingme regardless that, so you know,
and then people kind of go,oh, grand, grand, and don't
worry, I'll be out in thefucking way and the good crackle happened in
a minute, you know. Butonce you establish that people are grand with
it, then yeah, it wasbecause that's I was kind of saying,
how as you're talking monster terms whereyou were all verbally violent with each other

(42:51):
and Ireland terms may not be thesame thing, Like fuck it, They'll
be all right, they're all curiousabout you. If you're doing up and
that's at a really high level,they're going to be curious as to how
you got to that point, whatyour process is, because that's kind of
how they think, like they're they'reworking things out the whole time, right,
Yeah, that makes sense then,yeah, so that's what Paul I've

(43:13):
been telling that He's like, Iwonder how we came out. How do
how does it all fit? Andhow does it all how does you bring
it back there? The lads arelike that, you know that when people
come in sometimes if they're not tellingthe process cards, if you lose the
lads a little bit, because theyare curious about if it's a business man
or whomever, they want to knowhow you got to that point and and

(43:34):
what you're doing to stay there andso on. And I tell you it'd
be it'd be worth the next nextsix nations. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'll tell you what I do.I'll fly down to South Africa.
I'll fly down to South Africa thesummer. There we go. We want
to sacrifice. Yeah, well whatever, whatever, Just it's for my country.
That's the way I put it down. I mean, I'm going to
get as fair as the I'm goingto be the one drinking way too much

(43:55):
and what not and I'd just beabusive. How's that? Yeah? But
it was good, But yeah,it was. It was just interesting,
like I wasn't correlating what I wasn'tcorrelating what I was doing with fucking professional
rugby players. But it was interestingthat there definitely is processes and well it
looks like you're only fluting around.Yeah, A trained I like Paul and

(44:15):
early that night were going on other'sthis fucking direction. You know, you
could see him watching me. Theywere laughing at they lose themselves then and
laugh. But you can see him, I can. I notice thee Like
you'd be creeped out if it wasany other profession with the amount of the
lads were watching me, like youknow what I mean. Like, but
it was just interesting that when youwere trying to work something at the highest

(44:36):
level you can that. Yeah,pro the pro rugby players are like,
it's kind of like I can atleast you can see what's happening, you
know that kind of way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.
But there's a guy because I wastalking about the guy. Will Floury
is his name. He is afighter from from care He he went to
Rockwell he's he took up for hewas playing with Cashal I think, and

(44:57):
he was injured. It was aboutseventeen or eighteen. He was injured injured
and on his coming back from hisinjury, he took up m or grappling
just for fitness and cardio turns outreally good at him. He's a pro
fighter, like one of the oneof the most scariest people you've ever seen,
like in the like terrifyingly strong.But I he was. He asked
me a question on the podcast,because do you so? He say,

(45:20):
isn't because again he was, hewas doing it. He was comparing fighting
with stand up and went, okay, the health differences. I can eat
chips on the way home. Icould even smoke a fag on stage if
necessary, Like it's actually considered theprop but as he was like, I'd
say it wins. Yeah, youget Fellas now trying to be the phony
man as is. Oh god,it's well, I get Fellows something the

(45:43):
odd times square and up to melike going tipped a few full of himself
from my day. I'm like,Jesus Christ, you're saying this to a
guy with a scar that across hiseye, that looks like he'd been belted
by a hatchet. Do you knowwhat I mean? Like you putting up
with people putting up with Yeah,yeah, yeah, but I think it's
a very Irish thing too. Inever got you don't get the much in
the UK Irish. Irish people Ithink think they're very funny. Do you
know that you know. Yeah,yeah, there's a lot of funny bastard

(46:07):
stuff. There are a lot invertin adverted. Actually said to Paul,
if there was anybody I knew thatwas from your background that could as it's
John Fowldy could actually do stand up. He could, So I went to
the balls to do it, andI think that I think it has to
challenge it. I'd love the challengeit to it to do five minutes.

(46:27):
I honestly win of the balls arethe confidence, like there has to I
guess you're you're observing everything the wholetime, You're taking bits in and seeing
humor everywhere and been able to regurgitateit back in a funny way. Oh
fuck, I'd be like, ohJesus, but you do. You literally
just did throughout the last forty fiveminutes of this podcast. You literally regurgitated
funny ship. Did you see?Well? Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. Dennis Dennis stickto Dennis. Yeah, have you have

(46:52):
you had? No? No,that's somebody I really want to have on.
Like he's wired, he's wired tothe fucking he is wired into the
mains. Indeed, Oh yeah,yeah, yeah, he's he's right up
there. He's like, he's he'san experience, I suppose the Dave.
Yeah, that's a great description,the Dave kind of experience exactly, get

(47:13):
it on, get him on.He's he's he's very funny, very funny
guy. Yeah, because anytime I'veever seen him interviewed, he seems kind
of out of sink, but ina good way. Do you know what
I mean? Like he seems ishe in our dimension or where is he?

(47:34):
He's just he's just so he's justso quick with people as well to
to and this is it's the slaggingbitch, you know, brilliant if sex
though, he'd be able to slaphim down and show him up with in
seconds, you know. Yeah,it must be killer for Yeah, I
only imagine like if you're like JohnnySexton as it's like the greatest and then

(47:55):
somebody just with words and you can'tand there's no comeback. No, there's
no comeback, you know, becauseyou know he's got another one loaded up.
It's brilliant, brilliant to what duringcamp because I won't keep you all
eating because there's carrots to be had, your charts finished. They that's you

(48:19):
turn the lights on. There thisall right, you're still beautiful. It's
fine, it's fine. So howdo you how like the temperament in and
in the entirety of of say you'rein camp because you go off. You
said it yourself during camp, likethere's no there is no John folks,
she left and like there's no gettingin contact with you, Like what's what's
family life? I suppose Andy seemslike a fellows like all right, well,

(48:42):
yeah, sure, all right,you're gotta pop out. It's brilliant,
Yeah, you're you're in there.The girls are all minor at the
age now where they're sort of theyunderstand. Jessica is the youngest there who
I have to turn the light on, but she actually turned every other light
on by the light I wanted toturn on. That is not brilliant,
you know what I mean. Andwhen she she turned, she hit six

(49:04):
or seven switches and I went andshe goes, okay, and thanks,
like you know, yeah, Jessicais probably the youngest of them, and
we'd have a few phone calls andI and a couple of bit of FaceTime.
But the rest of them understand Ithink at this stage now what's happening,
and they get bored, Like theyget bored. I'd be I'd miss

(49:28):
the kids and I'd ring, I'dring home, or i'd you know,
you'd be on the phone. You'dbe like, well, how are you?
How's things? What does she playon you YRD today? And she'd
like, Jess, you do somethingelse and she'll say, I'm I'm just

(49:50):
playing roadblocks and just playing roadblocks orwhatever. So in about ten two minutes
of actually talking to me on thephone that they don't want to talk to
me anymore, and and all therest of it. So family life is
kind of all down to to Shanadeand and and and and they look they're
they're good. They're like I said, they're at a good age fifteen,

(50:13):
twelve, ten and six where they'rekind of yeah, they're kind of looking
after each other a little bit.So I'm convinced my fellow is in the
rat anyway, because no matter whatI ask him, yeah I do know,
truly wouldn't. I'd say I don'tremember. I'll be honest that I
don't remember. Yeah, you're gettingnothing out of them, nothing, not

(50:37):
like nothing at all. Nothing,Yeah, yeah, yeah, no there,
Yeah. Shaide looks after the houseand You get used to it too,
though, you get used to beingin camp and you know, getting
up to your room when when whenwhen the when the day finishes? Your
kind of your room is your kindof haveing and the door closes and it's

(50:59):
usually nice hotel. And if thebed is a nice bed, you have
a shower, You me the bedand you're like ah and no one is
annoying and you're off. That's whatI wanted to ask you, Like what's
it like? You know, likeit's it's brilliant, you know. They
they are a few cumbers on theeyes, like the yeah you have the

(51:21):
they look after the team and staffvery well, the r few and yeah
it's nice to you know, acup of coffee then as well. It's
just like you we come back,so we will be in the HVC and
Blanche and then we'll come back toCarton House and you know you might have
a shower, come back downstairs todo with the work, and you know
you'll just go like that, canI can I get a decaf or something

(51:43):
like that and over the overcome service, thank you very much, And they
might say would you like a littlebiscuits? Oh lord, yeah, and
I'll go, well, I'll tryone. I try one and overcomes,
and so you start to like thatstuff. You know, up to your
room. Your bed is always dressedwhen you come back from the you know
what I mean, the Yeah,your royalty. It's just like what the

(52:04):
royals deal with. Yeah, they'rejust like to live like a commoner for
a while. You come back tothe house then and I don't I asked
for a coffee and it's like youknow where it is? Yeah, and
and yeah, there's a there's alittle bit of an adjustment period when you

(52:24):
finish six nations that you that that'syou're trying to readjust back to common common
folk life and the washing machine,rubbing your chin, going this, picking
that up. Yeah, so there'susually a fight two or three days after
you come home. You should trythe polite thing that you just did there,

(52:45):
you know, as it walks pastthe table, like, sorry,
I could a little coffee there,maybe a decaf, and just go back
to the turn back to the laptop, just to see. I mean,
yeah, it's it's yeah, it'sprett it's brilliant. But there is there
is there is there is a timewhen you're home and it's just literally like,
right, come on, cop yourselfon Gil, Yeah, of course,

(53:06):
yeah, if you be your dadagain. Well it is kind of
force more in troubles and oh god, I can't believe my bed isn't made
again. Yeah, rotating back tothe real world like Vietnam It, it's
coming back on what's this bullshit?Is this? Who is staff? There
is your children? Because well doyou know what it? Here's and this

(53:32):
is a broad meta and this isfrom a child, right, this is
from I was about to walk outto the office. And some grow to
do podcasts. So you're head andafter bed in a bit. Who you
who's on the podcast? He doesn'tknow what podcasts are? Who's on the
podcast? John Fogt? Who's he? He's discribed? He's from up the
road? Are you going up theroads? If only? If only John

(53:54):
was giving back up the road again? But I won't say it. I'm
after saying anything now. And atear came to your eye there, did
I can see it? But Isaid no. He's a scrum coach and
he fucking loves scrummage. Oh JesusChrist. He don't want the ball.
He know he can do without tackling, but all he wants is driving into
people like a bullock. Yeah,yeah, love that. Love to see

(54:15):
if I if I go to something, I'll usually get I get might get
corner by sixty a sixty year oldlarger man who who will come over and
go, you know, they'll maketheir way over slowly, say if I'm
waiting for a drink at the bar, I know, some kind of like
out of the foliage, like acrossa buffalo, kind of making their way

(54:37):
over to the water, worried aboutthe crocodile getting them. And they'll eventually
get close enough and they might goI played tight head and I go very
good, very good. Now,would would there be any value in just

(54:59):
sending time, you know, tobe across the scrum? You can't say
no, no, that's stupid.Would you like you kind of go yeah,
look, you know, go on, tell me go on, and
you have a conversation. Then anotherfellow might make his way over and and
uh scrumb scrum is popular with big, bigger lads. So so yeah,

(55:23):
maybe your young felas, maybe maybea young fla might have a future in
the front row. Maybe you know, yeah I can I thought maybe seven,
because he's going to be taller thanme, and he's he's got that
strong out country go about and pullingout block. Loves thrown out timber around
the place, ignorant stuff, likeyou know, there's no finis there.
It just loves ignorant stuff. Ithought maybe a seven or whatever, but

(55:45):
all he was all he wants todo is smash and if the more beard
I have on the better. He'slike, yeah, you're faster, and
he's like, you won't. Iwill not back down from how hard,
how sore? This is? Like, yeah, love seeing that out cracked
now he'd loves seeing that. Youknow, No, doesn't care about the
ball. It's like I don't careabout the scrum session. All it is

(56:05):
is pushing and like slapping. It'sit's we don't even sometimes you don't even
use the ball. So lovely,that's lovely. But his his his question
and deep and meta question was thisas is a yeah, he's a scrum
coach with with the with Ireland,we watch Ireland. He goes, is
that hard? What scrummaging? Ah? No, scrummaging is easy. It's

(56:28):
his job hard. Jesus, that'sa really I should start the show with
that question and that's it is it? Is it a hard job? Is
it a hard job? It isn'twhen you've got the group of players that
that that are that are there atthe moment, Yes, right. Sometimes
it's about helping them figure it out. Sometimes it's about Sometimes it's tighten and

(56:52):
a loose head. They're they're nottalking directly to each other, as in
like he's thinking of doing one thingand the other guys thinking of the other
thing, and this guy is thinking, well, he should know what I'm
doing here, and then this guy'sthinking, well, this is what I'm
trying to do. And sometimes it'sjust about connecting them up onto the same
page in terms of like the physicsof scrum and how it works and all

(57:15):
that stuff. It's all fairly straightforward. But getting everyone on the same page
and understanding what each of them aredoing at the right time, all that
stuff can be a bit more complicated, and figuring it out together is unbelievably
important. And I think that's whatover the last few weeks of the Six
Nations, you know, there wasa lot of figure from the World Cup

(57:37):
to now that stuff. That stuff, you know, we've figured we figured
a few things out that helped usto be a more dominant pack. Yeah,
because immediately you saw like once theyare it almost looks like it locks.
Do you know what I mean?Like you see a whole like one

(57:58):
of those Chinese puzzle line it allthe whole thing, because oh and they're
all as born. Do you know? It's like how did John doing that?
How the mad thing? The madthing is to say, if say
the other thing as well has beenunbelievably observed around what what habit that they're
chasing down? So like the habitsduring training sessions, whether it's and it

(58:20):
could be for six or seven justto be knees up on bind spine nice
and close and in line with hiswith his prop sometimes it's just keeping them
to account as well, like soso so that you're really aware of are
they are they doing all the bitsthey need to be doing at the right
time in every scrum session? Arethey chasing down the right habits the whole
time? And sometimes if I startto focus on one part of the scrum,

(58:45):
say the say our entry and I'mtalking a lot of that, and
I'm I'm presenting on on the timeand of our entry and all that stuff.
Our secondary sink and are chasing ourfeet bit so that we've juiced in
our hips that we can go again. All this of then kind of sometimes
can can be forgotten about because you'reshining up one area and the players will

(59:05):
focus on that and then they mightjust take their eye off the other little
bits. So for for the wholething to work at the whole time,
it's it's about making sure that I'mover their habits and I'm seeing the right
things in training the whole time,all all all the players and that that
that sounds simple, It really does, but but there's so much doesn't It

(59:27):
doesn't. The good God, thewhole time. There there's defense, there's
attack, there's there's kick chase,there's there's so much of the game that's
really important to them. So I'mtrying to make sure that they're aware that
they're all so dependent on each otherand when it comes to scrum and that
we're working, we're earning the righttogether the whole time. That's what we

(59:47):
talk about, that we're we're earningthe right the whole time. We're creating,
and we're creating something for the team. So it's a real selfless thing
to do to be in a scrumbecause usually your front row will get the
cred, so you're tight head.But there's there's there's four, five,
six, seven eighths that are creatingthe opportunity for our front row to to
do well. And it's putting thatall together. Is there's a bit,

(01:00:09):
there's a little bit to it.Now follows here he goes all to it.
Yeah, yeah there is. Yeah, he was the second rush.
That's so I'll just head down theshow between the art Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, theydo you think because rugby comes, you
know, it fluctuates, you knowwhat I mean, Like we all know
it does like all of a sudden, you know, a couple of years

(01:00:31):
back you had to have too thebiggest humans ever in the centers and stuff,
and then it's just trends come.But it would seem some things never
change. Yeah, I gotta havea good scrub, don't you Like There's
just there are like two staples,like there's a good scrub and a good
line out in your you know.After that, you're like, yeah,

(01:00:51):
because I I something very interesting aboutIreland women playing and then new because and
is playing in Larachelle, I shouldI tell you something interesting before we go
into the first match. Whatever Francebring to the game, their forward pack
is going are going to be incredible. The forwards pre the camp met for
a full week before anybody else joinedthem, and lo and behold, everything

(01:01:15):
in the forwards did was absolutely lockedin perfect sync, like in far like
it. You can kind of workwith what's in the backs, but the
forwards you've got to have that shipright, like, don't you because there's
so many nuances like yeah, Ithink a set piece and and and defense
can win can win championships. That'snot like I think Ireland's attack has been

(01:01:36):
you know, for the men's hasbeen has been exceptional, unbelievable, or
we scored an order amount of points. But but but your set piece,
the momentum, you know, thephysical and mental side of the game.
You know, if you're getting donein your if you're getting stopped in your
mall, you're conceeeing penalties in yourscrum. The belief within the pack can

(01:01:57):
can just it can just wane alittle bit, and the momentum of a
team can can it can it can? It can start to crawl all over
you. So being able to beclear in your head the whole time.
Like we talk about getting back toneutral before a scrum, you've got these
you know, seven or eight secondswhere you can use them to to think
about what didn't happen, or youcan use them to connect up with each

(01:02:20):
other, and we'd be driving thatconnection piece and and and making sure that
we're mentally and physically ready for everyset piece, you know, every moment,
every every scrum. So it's unbelievablyimportant for the momentum and the belief
within the pack that they're dominant andthen they're they're on top, and that
can over that can accumulate over it, over a whole game, over a

(01:02:44):
whole six nations. You know,you don't want to be fixing things too
much in the six Nations. Youknow, fixing you're fixing after the first
three games. Every every time youcome back fixing too much, you start
to the belief within what we're doingstarts to shake a little bit. So
there's always pressure to make sure we'reon track and we're we're developing the whole
time. You know, it's likehands, I was just gonna say,

(01:03:07):
the hands look great there now talkingabout the game more and I'm starting to
feel it look at you, butyou know, yeah, yeah, I
love I love hearing like I lovehearing people that absolutely nerd out on things.
Do you know? Because you knowbecause you have to agree. Sure
there's good crack and allder, butyou have to to degree. But you're

(01:03:28):
nerding now. Isn't for the fuckingfor the one to be in the boblics.
It's just going to be gossiping atthe weekend. You actually, you
got to do it for your job. This has to work. I didn't
get to talk to you since,so I won't keep you much longer,
but a quick one on emergency forwardmoments. So you have say last year
with Netflix, by the way,you should have had so much like they

(01:03:50):
could have John episode. I'm justsaying you looked great on camera. You
looked I mean, no, youlook you. I will just call a
space with you look hot in camera. Whatever filter they had on, it
looked great, looked great. Putthat filter on this as well. Oh,
I have it on right now.I don't know if you Yeah,
it's it's you look amaze. Butobviously said they you have Josh vander Flear

(01:04:15):
hooking, you know what I mean, throwing the ball in the line out
emergency scenarios for you, like whenyou when you see like a back row
or whatever gone and you're thrown in, you say, James low On to
precide it, because big old unit, Like what days do you go?
Right? Which one is fucking looks? Which one is the strongest? You're

(01:04:36):
all fannies in my eyes because you'reout the backs, but which one is
the strongest? Like is that?How does that come about? For emergency
scenarios? You talk about the whatif scenarios? Yeah, you know when
you go through the yellow card,the double yellow, the red. See
the coaches would go through that,players would line up to do the throwing,

(01:04:57):
Like Bundy's constantly going give a itgo and I'm like, Bundy,
would you just go away? We'remore I work in here. So there's
there's a few players that we knowthat can slot in to throw the ball.
There's a few players that we knowthat can slot into the sides of
the strum. So defensively, howour back line will work five meters out
and there's no backfield, how ourback line will operate or howard defensively,

(01:05:19):
we'll operate off set piece in themiddle of the field and so on.
So so we'll have players that canslot in and sut out. Sometimes you'll
be down to seven. Sometimes weput back on depending on where we are.
And yeah, we go through thescenarios and then we'll do a tiny
bit of training. So I'll I'lldo a tiny bit of thrown with Josh
the Nines and Keen Keen Heay throwsa little bit as well. So they'll

(01:05:43):
throw one or two, three orfour a week max. Right, just
just just in the event that somethinglike that happens the Scotland week from last
year's Six Nations. You couldn't makethat up. Mental. It really was
mental. And I'd be blind ifI said on the side and I was
like, listen, what we're goingto do is this and that's what we're
gonna like, I literally was.I was. You know when your mouth

(01:06:05):
goes dry, Yeah, yeah,you know. We go in and have
lime. We have a kind ofa conversation. I've spoken to Keen outside
about going to play hooker, butin my head, I'm like, I
know, I I don't know howthis is going to go. We're talking

(01:06:26):
about breakfoot or not breakfowt, Sojust take it off. There is a
bit of nerves, like you knowthat the coach is the same as the
players. We have a fair ideawhat's going on. But when things go
paar shaped like they did in thatgame, it's it's all new and and
you're trying to figure it figure itout. But Andy, I go into
Andy and I walk into the dressingroom and he starts laughing. He's openly

(01:06:48):
laughing. You know where I'm andhow is right? Yeah? Because I
mean you're facing down, having yourloose said, playing hooker and your seven
throw the ball in because all thehookers are gone. Ye, and we're
under pressure. I think we're apointer to ahead or we're a point to
behind. Yeah, we're going fora Grand Slam. We're in Scotland over

(01:07:10):
there. They're full of pump andit's halftime and we're in the dress room
and Andy's Andy's smiling and it turnsinto a laugh because he sees my face
going because he'll say, how isit gonna How will we go? And
I'm like, really, I'm nottoo sure. But we're ready for the

(01:07:30):
scenario. You know, we're readyfor the scenario. Paul comes in,
talks to Josh and the line ofcallers about these are the options gonna we're
gonna use. I'm talking to someof the front rows about being primed and
ready for you know, we're gonnaload a little bit more or whatever.
And Andy's just saying, look,this is perfect for us, because you
know, he'll talk about going toare going to New Zealand and not just

(01:07:53):
doing a three test tour, doinga five test tour, like fuck it,
let's let's do a five test tour. Let's let's He doesn't care about
the chaos of it, and he'she's just bringing the team together, going
boys were ready and and building themup to go back out. And they
go back out and the Scrum getstwo or three penalties. We win every
line out and we score a coupleof tries, and we win the game

(01:08:15):
quite comftanty in the end. Butin those moments where there is an emergency,
there is a certain amount of youknow, I wish I were unhappy
exactly, yes, but look,yeah, the playing group are very open
that they're they're they're they're very openas well. We're lucky Keen just fucking
stepped in there, like, yeah, scrum much better than the os.

(01:08:40):
Yeah, Now, Dan and Ronan. Wow, wow, you've heard it
here live Well there you listen thatwho you're going to ask? Only the
scrum king, you know what Imean? If anybody knows the scrub King.
The title of this episode is goingto be scrum King actually texts Polly
there now and that would be yourname going forward, Scrumkling crown in the

(01:09:03):
post. But yeah, it's gastisn't it. It's brilliant. It's it's
brilliant. What's what's what the sportcan throw at you? And that was
a game I'll never ever forget,really, but that was a half time
I'll never forget. Even for thefair weather fan who wouldn't know a rugby
ball if you kicked it up,their whole would look at that scenario go

(01:09:24):
oh oh, they might be clear, they like. But this is also
very entertaining. This is some youknow, this is Disney, Disney movie
stuff, Mighty Ducks stuff, youknow, I mean, you know it's
mighty Ducks. You were like,I'll throw the ball in. Of course
you would. Josh, you're thenicest person ever. You look like you
bring biscuits to everybody's house, likehealthy gluten free ones. Yeah, you're

(01:09:46):
losing weight eating them. It was. It was awesome. Yeah, but
look at I know we didn't fairplay to you and I know at certain
points you were probably wanting to justask about the weather and tip and and
what it's still class? Is itstill top end? Ah, To be
honest with you, the Castle scenariohere is is only getting better. The

(01:10:10):
rock as we know, year onyear number two in Ireland, I'd say
care Castle not far behind it now. Ah yeah, got Cromwell's ball,
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,I've opened I've opened a comedy club in
care Yeah yeah, where whereabouts?Do you know the hill? The Hill
Bar? Oh? Do I knowthe Hill? Yeah? Yeah I do?

(01:10:31):
Yeah, great pint again us greatpub. Would basically built an entire
comedy club in There's a separate venueto the back of it. Built the
comedy club in there. Brilliant.Everybody from Deirdre to de la Mare to
Fred Cooke to Tearn with the warmups there, there's there's everybody's gone on,
everybody's We've We're nearly fifteen months intoit now. I have a good

(01:10:53):
friend of mine, Dave Walsh,who owns the Carehouse hotels. I'm actually
I'll be down there every now andagain, so next time down will be
in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, pop on in. It's it's what
it is is wild tis wild,but I've made wild people. There's what
comedians notice that they get in there. There's jeez, there's an energy in

(01:11:15):
here. And because it's taken methat long to build them, the first
couple of months, lads are sittingthere with their arms holder, going I
don't know what fucking way is itgoing to do? Now you see him,
They're wearing like fucking mad shorts comingin go and talking about obscure comedy
specials that they saw and people soanything. I mean, it's a safe
space for anything, he said.And everybody gets it. Everybody gets it.

(01:11:38):
So and that's the people Like therewas a guy in there the other
day with and he was trying toheckle a woman that I was already fucking
talking to. And this guy,I look down and you have that You're
like, how are you opening yourmouth and drawing attention to yourself. You've
got a head like a fucking Scodia, Like you're a sniper's dream. Are
you fucking joking? Let me try? You know, it was, but

(01:12:00):
everybody. It's there's a glorious it'salmost therapeutic. People walk away on all
great because you can't normally, youwon't normally hear this sort of madness in
everyday life almost you know, asmaller venue like that, Is it a
throwback to what comedy used to belike in in clubs or or yeah,

(01:12:23):
yeah, yeah, but do youknow what it's it's you'll be surprised clubs
are kind of definitely, yeah,it is a throwback to what clubs would
have been like, Especially in Dublin, they've gone a safe do you know
what I mean? More so onbecause not because people mind themselves too much,
but you've a lot of people ininternational people coming in sitting in the
audience, who are they won't getit? Do you know what I mean?

(01:12:45):
If you're going hard hard? Doyou know what I mean? When
you're hard and there's no point youknow, and it's it's it is exactly
that. For the comedians, they'relike, oh Jesus Christ, well this
might be the hardest room in thecountry because of this, because you can
go in there, I want togo. I'll send you on the next
few dates and whatever one's you justlet me know, because you know your

(01:13:08):
calendar and all the rest of itself, just going yeah, let's make it
a business because we've done we've donecomedy up Upper Carehouse. But the thing
is, it's a hotel. Thisnow is a comedy. You walk into
the into our place, well,you walk into the into the back of
the hill, into the club,and you go, oh, this is
oh, this is like a NewYork comedy club. The stage is that
you know that all the seating isright and everything else. Yeah, you'll

(01:13:30):
you'll, yeah, it'll be rightup your straight now to your kind of
gravy. Listen, this has beenyou've been tremendous. As I knew the
king would the king the King,Well, it's been a it's been a
pleasure. It's been a pleasure.And on top of that, by the
way, the greatest Paul O'Connell impressionthat there is if you're kind of ever

(01:13:54):
listened to Paul, if you're listeningto this, this is what you sound
like. It's exactly what you listen. Listen, listen. Yeah, but
I'm going to keep doing it.Yeah, oh yeah, one hundred percent.
And if if you do decide tohave me in before the Six Nations,
or join the six Nations to breakup. I will reference that that

(01:14:15):
I'll actually really try hard to tryand replicate your your standard of Paul O'Connell,
and you can give me, youcan actually mark me out of ten.
Yeah, I will look forward toit. I look forward to Listen,
John the king of the scrut folkssake, I know, folks say,
but I knew to just annoy theship out of you. And you
appreciate have the ship annoyed out you? I do, I do not.

(01:14:39):
Yeah, look listen, she's nownot chopping, she's putting past it into
a boat. You know what Imean? She just so I get annoyed
every day. Oh understood, absolutelyunderstanding. Hence why I have a haven
down the garden that nobody can annoyme. This is where my I sometimes
come out here and just sit Jackand that's it. Just say yeah,

(01:15:00):
just shed hey, I need youshed fit that look more less told you
you need to know. Yeah,well why don't you ground Tom's yet?
And you can sit in his oneyou and you're more than welcome. You're
all brave. They're talking to Tom. I don't see you now talking And

(01:15:21):
of course it should look at.Thanks very much to the entire Fogultry family
that have been involved in this.This has been tremendous. Thank you,
Thanks Shanaid, Thanks ovinging John findyourself. Hello, Hello, Ah,
I told you, I told youJohn. I don't know if he wants

(01:15:42):
you to follow him, probably doesn't, but it is John Foguerty ninety five,
if I remember correctly. At overon Instagram, go have a look
at his big, lovely happy head. He's got a lovely head in all
fairs. And if you want tosee it in moving form and see his
Teleidigga Night's Rick and Bobbie Haines justbecome a Patreon go over and you'll see
the video over on my Patreon page. What an absolute joy. I could

(01:16:08):
have nerd it out a bit longeron that one, but look looks like
I'm going to be the official standup comedian of the ir of you.
I'm just putting it out. Ithink that's what I got from it anyway,
I don't know. Hey listen.If it's your first time listening to
the podcast, hit subscribe on whateverplatform you're on. If it's Spotify,
hit the bell and if you canleave a review. Please do top marks.
None of this five four star stuff. I don't know. It could

(01:16:30):
have been a little bit more rugbyit. That's not good to me.
The top rating is really some morepeople get to see it, So if
you've not lessen in less than fivestars, keep it in your pocket.
Thanks very much for keeping it inyour pocket. I told you about the
link in the show notes. Gohave a gander that for all everything I
talked about at the top of theshow other than that, quite away.

(01:16:50):
Keep the hands away from it firstlong as you can, and enjoy the
rest of the weekend. Can acouplet Some things