S4 E08 - Comeback Kings

Sarah Dodsworth (@dods86) and @leebrown2 discuss the Sheff Utd home game and the unity betweeen fans, manager and players.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Yeah, there's no place. Iknow if I would, I wouldn't want
to be right here. And youknow, in this minute of trying to
bring success to one of the biggestfootball clubs in the world, the basic
under line principles that yeah, Iwant my team to play football that scares

(00:22):
a life out of every opposition.That's that's kind of the endgame. Good
evening, good afternoon. When ifyou're listening to the var Side Spurs podcast
and today joining me is Sarah,how are you doing, Sarah. I

(00:44):
haven't spoken to you in ages.It's been a long time, but I
don't know, eighteen months or something. I think that. Yeah, I
was gonna say, something's been happening, tell us a little bit about it.
Yeah, I became a parent eighteenmonths ago. Life has just been
a little bit chaosic. And butfootball, the football has been bad until

(01:06):
this season. Let's not be let'snot be shy about that. So I
weren't watching. We've just been talkingto do anything else, so so didn't
join in for a bit. Butyeah, yeah, we've just been talking
just quite how easy it is tobe a parent. Eh, hardest job.
Yeah, job needs untold energy,untold patients, untold money. Yeah

(01:32):
yeah, yeah, but it's great. Yeah, you would you do it?
You do it well? People doit over and over and over again,
don't they. So yeah, it'sit's a cliche, but you have
absolutely no idea what love is untilyou've got your own children of you.
No, no, not even close, even close. Anyway, Let's not
talk about spy stuff. Let's talkabout inspiring stuff. So how does it

(01:57):
feel to be a Spurs fan Sarahthe time? You know, when we've
got just come out of three regimesof three absolute terrorists of football, we've
now got Ange Posta Koglu. Howare you feeling about being Spurs now?
What's the difference between that those lastthree regimes we've had we had obviously Conte,

(02:17):
Nuno and Marinho, And how doyou feel about it now? Having
Ange at the helm? I think, like just with most people, like
he speaks with such honesty and it'snot about him. You know, you
can tell he's there to build somethingfor the football club. And you strip
that back, you take it backto the early days of Paschetino. You

(02:38):
know, they were there to buildsomething for the football club. They were
they were there to take us ona journey, whereas you know, as
much as I was of the mindsetthat we should have been appointing big name
managers at the time we did,it didn't work, so we do sort
of need to go back to thebeginning. I sort of feel two ways
about it, Like I'm really excitedthat I was playing nice football. I'm

(02:59):
enjoying it. Well, I actuallystill feel a real disconnect between myself and
how the club's being run. Soit's kind of like I sort of like,
yeah, great, play nice football. I actually enjoy watching it,
but I'm not the person cheering itthat I was, just because I just
feel, i know, like afor the first time, I feel like
a consumer. Clubs made me feel. But we might might learn more about

(03:24):
that actually, because I think there'sa fan's forum tonight, isn't there,
And I think Leavy's there and theirsons there and a few other people from
the club, and I think they'retrying to I think, I think,
like you're saying there, Sarah,really is that there is this disconnect,
and I think they're trying to addressit, which they need to, because
you know, it's been all sortof cloak and dagger for such a long

(03:46):
time that we it's led to thatkind of discontent and the fan base,
let let learn the stuff that's beenhappening on the pitch. But there was
a real kind of like we there'sa mistrust between this all with what's going
on, and I'm hoping that whathappened tonight is maybe they can pull some
of those threads together to maybe seeyou know, I'll communicate more clearly about

(04:09):
where we see this all going nowand if we can, if we can
believe it, you know, andhopefully we can, then then the future
is bright. I think so.Especially you know, we all we all
like watching nice football, which iswhy we're all generally Spurst five. We
just used to see in that flareand you know, it's great to watch

(04:30):
football, and it's something that reallyhas been missing for maybe four and a
half years. Maybe it was theend of Postino's ragin it wasn't even there
either. So you know, fromthat perspective, we'll sort of without saying
we've got everything we wanted on thepitch because we've got no trophies, and
that fundamentally that's what all of sfirst five wants. It's off shining trophy.

(04:53):
We've got everything we want on apitch. Now we've got players that
look like they want to be there. They look like they're playing for sure.
They're engaging with the fans on thepitch. They're engaging with the fans
before games, after games. Youknow, they're saying all the right things,
which you know should be fairly obviousto end of bloody FOOTBALLO. Let's
be serious. They get enough coachingon it nowadays. But they're saying on

(05:14):
the right things and they just looklike they're enjoying themselves. Like when was
the last time, even even lastseason trying to get a smile up Sonny.
Yeah, happening, you know.Happy. I don't know if you
saw the Jonathan Lewer article in theGuardian today, there was an actually really
nice article. He was calling PostaKoglu pastor Posta Quaglu and I think,

(05:40):
what what But what the sort ofgist of it was is that actually now
pretty much, you know, you'vegot the clubs with the most money,
like Man City et cetera, thathave just sewing up all the trophies.
You know, it's harder than it'sever ever ever been to win a trophy.
So what he's saying is that youknow, what what fans want is

(06:00):
is like we're getting at the moment, is it is the engagement, the
football, the exciting football, andactually sometimes the journey of you know,
your happiness is in the journey asmuch as it is in the destination and
maybe more important in many ways.So hopefully we're kind of seeing that now.
Who knows where it will lead us? And like Andrew's been saying,

(06:23):
isn't he really, which is oneof the things aspects those resonates with lots
of us, is that you know, once he's built the side that he
wants and we're playing the sort offootball he wants, the rest will take
care of itself. And that that'sexciting to hear, you know, in
contrast to as we're talking about thelast three managers and particularly Conte who just

(06:44):
basically you know, had to hireextra busses to throw everyone under. You
know, that's it's so refreshing thathe's he's just saying like, now,
don't you know, let them letthem dream, let them let them get
happy about it. I mean that'swhat it's a Yeah, he fundamentally understands
what it's like to be, youknow, a football fan, and you

(07:05):
know, you can't knock a CVthat Conte had, you can't knock CV
that Marinho had, in terms ofwhat they've won, but you know where
they've gone on one and where they'vegone and done that largely unlimited resources,
or in leagues whereby being organized andhard to beat was enough to win that

(07:25):
league. You know, being organizedand hard to be Burley Burnley was that
for many years in the Premier League. They never got in the top half.
So in the Premier League that isn'tenough. You need to be more
than that. And I think youknow, if you if you haven't got
the money, like you said,to just go and out and spend everybody
else. Yeah, there's there's gotto be more to it. You've got
to be beating the teams that youshould be beating. Like Shepard Wednesday,

(07:47):
Well played nice football along the way, and you know we will upset one
or two big teams along the way. If we can be in the mix
going into the last twenty percent ofthe season and see what happens, then
yeah, that's I think that's enoughfor most first bands as a starting block.
Absolutely. I mean, of course, you know, we all want

(08:07):
to win something we want to dreamthat we win the premiership one day,
or we'll win a troph I mean, you know, one of those things
could could well happen, but itcannot be the only Macrov success because an
actual fact, when you think aboutit, you know, in all the
leagues, there's there's only one ortwo teams that basically look mean you look
at last season at Man City wonevery single thing. Yeah, you know,

(08:31):
there's only one or two teams thatwill hoover it all up. So
what does that mean everyone else islike an outright failure? I don't think.
So, you know, it's likeit's nice just to feel that we're
at the beginning of a of anreally exciting journey. And yeah, like
we talked about in the previous podsthat we're going to have some ups and
downs, you know, Saturday,which will come on too a second felt

(08:54):
like a little bit of an upand down bit internally was a bit of
a roller coaster. But you know, but it hopefully we feel excited because
I don't know about you, we'llactually we'll come. We'll get onto that
game now, but just just avibe of that. I know at one
point we were losing. But Ididn't send from any of the fans at

(09:15):
the stadium. I don't know ifyou went, Sarah, did you go?
Oh you did you watch it?I didn't. I watched most of
it from home. Yeah, Imean I didn't when I was there.
I mean maybe it translated from ifyou've managed to get a holy legitimate stream
but the highlights the men, Yes, that's what. But but but I
didn't get the sense the fans wereangry at the players. It felt more

(09:39):
that, you know, we knewthat they're getting every everything, they're more
angry. Well we'll come on tothis in a minute, anyway, But
it was some of the sort ofwasting time that we saw. Yes,
yes, anyway, so we'll we'llstart with the first half then, so
it was Neil or at the endof the first half. But what did

(10:01):
you make of the team's selection overall? And were surprised that Richie didn't start.
I wasn't surprised he didn't start.It probably took a bit of pressure
off of him, to be fair, and I think also Sonny earned his
right to start by playing down themiddle and scoring his goals and his performance
as being good. So what Ilike about and is he's not afraid to

(10:22):
go. You know, you earnedyour place, you get you get your
started the next game. It isn'tworking off He come after sixty seventy minutes
like that is refreshing in itself.I felt like the changes came quite late
in the second half. But generallyhe rewards good performances. He does like
to keep a steady team. Myonly surprise was maybe manner Solomon starting,

(10:46):
although he was his performance was actuallyokay on that day. I thought,
probably his best yet. But I'myet to see why he should maybe start
over others generally, But I wonder, like you were saying there, really
I suppose you're hinting at it,really that he just didn't want to change

(11:07):
a winning teams. At least thatwas the team that started the last match
and they deserve to start again.And also, do you think there was
any element of giving what we've seenin there's you know that in the international
break, and of course how frustratedRichie's been. There's an element of sort
of psychology there that he was dealingwith that situation on Richie's behalf at all.

(11:30):
Do you think that was not reallyfactored into this. I think it
was part of it. I thinkit took the pressure away from the decision
because you know, you can putyour arm around and say, look,
you know you've been upset. There'sa lot of pressure around you. The
last thing you need to do isbe starting the game. Start on the
bench, like you know, feelyour way in for the last twenty minutes
a game and see what happens.Whereas, if he's starting the game,

(11:50):
he himself is going to be evenmore emotionally charged because he's going to be
thinking, I've got to start well, he's going to be flied into challenges,
he's going to be tears in hiseyes after fifteen twenty minutes because he's
miss sit there or whatever it mightbe. Whereas, you know, coming
off the bench, if you knowfrom from a from a point of view
where you don't know where the resultis, if you're coming in on your
one kniel down and you're coming offthe ten minutes, you're trying to change

(12:11):
a game. Well, most punditsafter the game game, so, oh
well, he brought him on withonly ten minutes to play. What the
hell do you think he's meant todo in ten minutes? And then also
if you get he comes on andhe scores the equalizer or the winning goal,
he's a hero. So like itwas almost a win win for Richie
in the sense that he got hegot the chance to step out the spotlight,
take a bit pressure of himself andthen come on and feel his way

(12:33):
into the game offter, you know, for the last twenty minutes, half
hour, however long he got.So I think it was a bit of
both. I think it's rewarding theteam that done a very very good job
against Burnley, whilst also, youknow, even if he was tempted to
put him in, I think whathappened was enough to sade no, you
just need to be here today andchill. Are you saying it's good management?

(12:56):
Unbelievably Yeah, it's good management.Yeah, but you can see that
just from the change of attitude,you can't you from the players. And
I think also, you know,prior to the game, in the press
conference beforehand, there were some reallyreally thoughtful things that postocog who was saying
he never seems to put a footwrong, does he? With what he

(13:18):
says? He doesn't say lots,it's very measured. But also the fact
that he was talking about mental healthin general and not just being cliched about
it, talking about us all thefact that he'd lost his dad a few
years ago, that that's something he'shaving to deal with, that there's not
a single person in this room hewas speaking to all the journalists that won't
have gone through something and you know, and footballers aren't immune to it either,

(13:43):
and so so I think, likeyou know, you're saying there,
really, I think he's played areally you know, a really good hand
here and the way he's dealt withthat situation. And yeah, he's taking
the pressure off him quite considerably forbringing him later on and and I hopefully
sorry, very good. I thinkbands need to be reminded that these people

(14:05):
are these these players are people atthe end of the day. And you
know, there's a there's a lotof you know, nasties that go on
after games, depending on what forces, and you know, conversations about players
like get out of my club,you're crap, like you you know,
you're a donkey whatever else, LikeI can only imagine that abuse McGuire gets,
for example, And you know,Jesus, he's just someone who's trying

(14:28):
to do his job. Well,and uh, yeah, is it some
some of the fans that will probablybe siding with what Postcoglu said will be
some of the fans that were alsopiled in on other players. And you
know, you've seen the adverts rightwhere people you know, either it's sort
of nasty name calling or racial abuseand that kind of stuff. In fact,

(14:50):
we had some of that in thisgame as well, which is absolutely
imporrant. And and hopefully that youknow, the club finds out who that
person is as well. But butyou know, it's I suppose there's always
an element of hypocrisy, but Ijust feel that, yeah, he particularly
dealt with this one really well overall, and and it you know, it

(15:13):
seems to chime with so many peoplebecause I don't think, like, you
know, he's suggesting there is asingle person who you may feel has it
all going on, but really,you know, it's like the duck swimming
the feet underneath it going like theclappers were on top of they look really
calm, you know. But andsometimes football players have to seem like that

(15:35):
they have to put on this front, don't they that they've got it all
going on? There's well, andmaybe there's an element of guilt in the
fact that they do get paid allthis money and they do play the game
that many people would dream of playing. But doesn't it you know, it
mean that they're exempt from feeling terribleat some points in their life, you
know. So yeah, I thinkthat was you know, brilliantly the way

(16:00):
handled it. And hopefully this isa real real boost for Richarlison and you
know, and the players also knowthat, you know, he's going to
treat them like humans, yeah,and respect them and respect their emotions.
Whereas you know, I think youcan say that since probably Pochettino, that
hasn't been a thing under the managementstyles that we had in place. So

(16:22):
you know, I would expect tosee Richarlison running through brick walls now for
Postcody, you know, and that'swhat he's bringing. You know, if
we can't, we can't go outand buy the Harlans and the the Broiners
to compete with Man City, thenyou need, you know, your players
that are very good to run throughbrick walls to make to make the best

(16:44):
of what you've got and to bebetter and get that extra one two three
percent out of them. Absolutely,So hopefully, you know, rich you
will now find a rich fain formand you can as a manager, you
know, contrary to what some peopleseem to have thought, make these players
into that kind of player that you'retalking about. I mean, for example,
you look at Bussuma. I meanwe brought him for twenty five million

(17:07):
and he looked like a ten millionpound player last year under CONTI this year,
what would you have Enzo above him? Would you have Moises Casito above
him? This this guy feels likethe fulcrum of the team to me at
the moment. And you know,he's easily one hundred million pound looking player
if you're comparing against those players.And that's that's up to Anne, right.

(17:30):
I think, so he's got he'sgot him full of confidence, he's
got him playing well. And youknow, I think the one thing that
I don't know it word for word, but the one thing he says is,
you know, I'm going to havea go at you if you if
you hoof the ball at the pitch, but if you try and play out
and you try and do the rightthings, and then eventually it's going to
come good and make that mistake,well, to make that mistake twice,
eventually you will stop making that mistakeand we're going to look incredible. And

(17:53):
it's almost that freedom because you know, you could as a fan, you
could sense the terror of a mistakefrom the squad last year and the year
before. To be fair, youknow, they were just too terrified to
give that ball away because they knewif we lost at the end of the
game. And it was from thatsituation that, you know, the answer
at the press conference would have been, well, it was his fault.

(18:14):
He gave the ball away on thehalfway line. I told him not to
do that, and it just createscreated fear which isn't conductive to any any
sort of performance in any way,shape of line, shape of life.
You know, it's it's just sorefreshing to see that. And you know
what the most exciting bit is abouton the fields. We've still got Bendericord
to come back. Yeah, anunbelievable addition to still come back. Nobody's

(18:37):
noticed that he's missing this year becausestepped up so brilliantly. When Benkok comes
back, there's going to be areal dilemma, I think so, yeah,
because we're only one game a weekas well, so it's kind of
like, you know, until Januarywith one game a week and hopefully we
can get a run together in theFA Cup. But you know, how,
how do you know, how doyou build those minutes up to bend
tocor that's the difficulty of it now, yeah, now, but I think

(19:02):
you hit the nail on the headthere, Sarah as well. So let's
talk about time wasting, because wesaw an awful lot in this game in
the first half. I couldn't believewe only ended up with three minutes at
the end of the first half.Three minutes when when we had a goalkeeper
alone who went through this hole.I don't know, you know if you

(19:26):
if you saw any of this,but it was an absolute joke. He
threw himself down the floor, thenhe took his gloves off, He threw
his gloves, He went through awhole rigma role. Someone came on,
they treated him and did all thatsort of like pushing his leg up and
all this kind of crap. Thathe was down on the floor for about
seven or eight minutes, and thatdoesn't include any of the other sort of

(19:47):
rolling around and feigning injuries constantly throughoutthat first half, and we end it
was three minutes that was in thatis just ridiculous. Have you ever seen
time wasting like it? I'm tryingto think who it is. He used
to be very, very good attime wasting and he used to drive me
and say it was at Chelsea underMarino, he will just get those little

(20:07):
files and go down and break upplay. Whenever they got the lead,
you know, it felt sort oflike that because for them, you know,
a drawer away at Tottenham or awin, if they could have snuck
it, it would have been ahuge result. And the more time that
they can break up our flow andbreak up our play, the better,
because once we get going, it'svery very hard to stop this team from

(20:27):
from from playing. So that isalmost the only option that teams do have,
and it is up to the refereesto make sure they're already in the
appropriate amount of time. So itseems like he got told off at half
time for only added three minutes on. So we added them all on the
second half. Yeah, we'll comeon too, that god he did.

(20:51):
The first half finished, Neil Neil. We utterly dominated position. We had
loads of corners and good chances,and Basuma looked like he'd done or MESSI
where he danced through and nearly scoredme. We all we all jumped up
at that point thinking he's got toscore here and didn't, And it was
quite frustrating. But so when someoneactually when when the booze came at halftime,

(21:12):
it wasn't this time for the players, it was for the referee and
for and for all that time wasting, because I think everyone was so frustrated
that we're just absolutely played these offthe park. But like you were saying,
Sarah, that they just come todo that, that that was their
game just to get pays. Ithink so I think there was just a

(21:36):
different vibe about it because you could, you know, because everything that the
players were doing, we were cheeringand you know, and encouraging them all
that kind of stuff. Clearly,I mean, the players must have been
so frustrated with with that in factthat I mean that that referee, Peter
Banks, what did you feel abouthis display? I mean, for me,
didn't feel like he was in controlof the game half the time.

(21:59):
I don't think it felt like hewas in control of the game. And
I've written down here like he wantedto be the center of attention a bit
like I might be you know,might be before he were tired. We'd
like to be the center of attention, it would be about him. It
felt a lot like that, Butwe've just the worst referee in performance tied
into it. And you know,I think refereeing it's a real fancu's job,

(22:21):
don't get me wrong, and we'revery lucky that people want to do
it. However, they don't dothemselves any favors in the situations like this,
and they've got the extra official andmister penalty on Madison. I don't
know if that was the first halfof the second half. They missed the
penalty on Madison and then just handingout really socked yellow cards generally, which
led to the point where obviously inour favor, Sheffield United had a playoff

(22:41):
sent off. But it could havebeen anybody yesterday, and for a game
where there wasn't actually anything that nastythroughout, I mean, there were a
lot of a lot of yellow cards. I mean there was even one point
where we went to take a cornerand it might have been a ball boy
threw a ball on its same timeor something like that. He stopped the
game and gave them a drop adrop kick. You know, and a

(23:06):
drop ball, and it just didn'tmake any sense at all. It's just
like there was no common sense appliedat all. It's just there's so many
silly things going on. I thinkI think it was really one of the
worst referee displays I've seen in along long time. He just just it
ran called. Even even the oppositionmanager had a bit of a cheek really
but complained about the refereen display andI think it just was it. Really,

(23:30):
it really felt like he had losthis grip on the game, which
is probably why he ended up tryingto dish out so many yellows to try
and kind of like calm it downa bit. Yeah. I think so
that that most has the opposite effac, doesn't it, Because players are then
players are then wound up because there'sno consistency. I think I'll played football
play hockey down. And I don'tmind if someone ship excuse my brakeedge,

(23:52):
I don't mind if someone's crack referee, But what you want is consistent.
See you want to see it bothways. Whereas there was no rhyme or
reason to what he was doing,there was you know, there was no
like well, every time you're you'restuds slightly up, that's going to be
a free gig. It was fourstuds up, the fifth one there's a
yellow card, and next one's goingto be a red card. And actually
the fifth one was the least aggressiveall four before that. So just yeah,

(24:17):
it'd be really interesting to see whetherhe gets a game this weekend,
whether he's demoted. And they needto do something about the standards of officiating
in this league because if they don't, what what what's going to happen?
Because the official officials should be there. You shouldn't notice there. That's the
best referee and you don't know they'rethere. They're just officiating the game.
They're getting on with it. It'snot about them. And actually the game

(24:41):
was ruined on Saturday because it wasbeing stopped too much. It wasn't being
well managed to play, the playerswere frustrated to an injury. Yeah,
you know, I just wonder ifthere's an element of that. They're waiting
for VR to do actually the actualreal decision making for them, So if
there's any sort of howlers, they'llbe told. And you know, so

(25:03):
there's that they're not making the realdecisions or they're making sort of minor ones,
but they're they're not you know,they're not helping the game at all,
and any of the key decisions,they're just like that had like you
said, that had to be apenalty on on Madison. I mean if
if the one on Son the previoustime was a penalty when basically was a

(25:29):
feather touch on him, that thatwas definitely a penalty. And I suspect
he's just hoping Vaar will look atit and he doesn't have to make the
decision. Yeah. Yeah. Andit's too slow as well, isn't it.
You know, they want this fastgame, fast paced product, which
I think is good for everybody.They want the funds to get the most
for their money with the added time. Whole different story. Totally agree with

(25:52):
it. Unless there's eight plot kickoff, fans can't get home. You
know, you can't have an eightplot kick off and do what you're doing
in my opinion. You know,I'm going hopefully to the Fulham game in
a couple of weeks and it's aneight'clock kickoff on on a Monday night.
If I was getting a train home, I literally wouldn't make the last train
home. I wouldn't be able toget home, I'd have to stay overnight,

(26:14):
and you know it's expensive enough forfans without that piece on top.
So you know, if you wantto do that, you need to have
bigger discussions with the rail networks.Again we put on later trains, or
you need to make the kickoffs earlier, amongst those things. So well,
there'll be people saying then that theycan't get to the games if it's a
seventh boat kickoff, for example,And I do appreciate that, but you
know, if they can cancel gamesbecause it's unsafe for fans to travel,

(26:40):
how is it okay to have agame that can kick off or finished,
I should say in full time aftera point where fans going to get home,
because it's still about their safety.We're finishing at half ten, yeah,
you know, so we'll jump tothe second half more of the same
time, wasting more frustration. Thoughtmcberney actually for them was pretty much their

(27:02):
only threat. I mean, heput himself about quite a bit and sort
of gave a bit of a testfor our defense. So then on the
on the seventy third minute, howam I blow? How I scores?
Yeah? And I mean I don'tknow about you, but that was so

(27:22):
so frustrating at that point, andas some fans left, yeah, some
some, not many, but somedid. But to be honest, the
way they had played that game,you you just felt that if they're you
know, the fact that they've wastedso much time now, it was going
to be shut up shop. AndI must admit at that point even I

(27:47):
was starting to think, I'm notseeing how we're going to get back into
this because they are just going tobasically park the bus. Now. Did
you feel at that point we couldstill do it, get into it.
I'm not sure there was a fanalive that didn't think Manager of the Month,
player of the month, one naildown in the seventy third minute game
over in you know that you knowthat is you know, typically great,

(28:11):
that's it, It's finished. AndI did say to I didn't say something.
Michaels just got one nil down andthat's it. And I was refreshing
my chip Twitter feed like every fiveminutes after this point, and I just
sort of thought, I can't bebothered about I can't be bothered to check
anymore now, like, you know, after eighty five minutes, like,
no, this isn't happening. Butyeah, then then I suppose he made

(28:34):
some changes, positive changes. Weall thought it was a bit late,
but you obviously we had another kindof twenty twelve minutes thirteen minutes of football
to play, so you know,he almost put those subs on with what
would ordinarily five minutes, and they'vegot fifteen minutes. It's a bit more
of a the game, isn't it. Yeah, So I mean, like

(28:56):
the first round of subs were oneighteen minutes, so we had Johnson on
for Son, Richie Vassar and Parasitefor Solomon. That was on the sort
of eighteen minutes. But interestingly,afterwards it seemed and was saying that he
felt confident would have at least tenmore minutes added on, So he was
like thinking, this gives them twentyminutes to go at it. So even

(29:21):
though it was in the eightieth minute, normally would get you know, would
get one or two minutes more,but he was feeling that this was going
to go for another twenty minutes.So that was actually really quite clever in
terms of, you know, hopefullythat they were tiring, which I've forgot
the sense that they were starting totire at that point. But those three
came on, they did affect thegame, but not quite enough yet,

(29:44):
so he brought on two more andon the ninetieth minute plus four, like
ninety fourth minute, he brought ina hog birth of v vand event,
which I thought was really brave becausewe like basically only had one defender,
didn't we really central defender? Andthen Royal was swapped for Porrow and then
a few minutes later, Parisitge knocksin the fifteenth corner of the game,

(30:06):
Richie heads heads and he's brilliant withhis head, isn't he? And boom,
yeah, there we go. Andthen at that point I think most
people in the stadium were thinking,we'll take the draw, you know that
that at least we haven't lost thedamn game, because that would just be
so unjust. And it was goingcrazy, I mean the whole that,
you know, the whole ground wasgoing crazy. But funnily enough, the

(30:29):
person that wasn't was was Richie.He got the ball, calm as you
like, didn't even do his pigeoncelebration, went straight back to the center
circle and was like, right,let's go. Yeah, So I love
that attitude and a play off becauseyeah, you know, we saw it
against Leicester a few years ago withStephen Burgoe, didn't we And you know
that attitude to just get the ballgo again, and you know, if

(30:52):
we want to amount to great thingsat the end of the season, it
is moments like these that make thedifference. You know, if you rest
on your and you take them onone and you'd be happy you've managed to
snatch a point and hope it addsup at the end of the season to
something that's that's worth that. Butno, we went again, pressed really

(31:14):
high, forced them into a mistakeinside their own heart, and then I
don't I mean personally, I thinkthe keeper probably should have had a bit
of a better job, and I'mvery glad he didn't because it went in.
But I don't I don't think thekeeper coming himself in glory for that
now he's rooted to spot. Imean, I got the impression because I
think it was a lovely bit ofplay, actually, wasn't it with I
think a dog he knocked it toto Richie who who then set up that,

(31:37):
you know, assisted that the winnerthe way that actually Kilo took that
ball with his you know, onethought, and then knocked it to the
other and then just basically calmly bentit. I think he actually went through
the player's legs, so it maybethe keeper was unsighted, but it went
the opposite way to what you wouldexpect because I thought he was going to
go in across the keeper. Yeah, and it went the other side,

(31:59):
didn't they And and so we're allstanding there thinking, we're kind of like,
what's going to happen here? Andit that I couldn't believe that it
went in fucking go off it Honestly, it went mad. I can't remember
a game well, I can obviouslywith you know, the the Less the

(32:22):
game and also the i X game, but it had that sort of feel,
you know, everyone was going crazy. My son for living at the
next row in front of us,because everybody was jumping up and down,
and we had people running up anddown the aisles and taking the tops off
and all sorts. You know.It was it was it was magical,
you know. And it was tosee a pole for the amount of bruisers

(32:42):
oh yeah, everywhere, you know, But but you know, but it
felt like that was that was absolutejustice. And there were some lovely little
moments afterwards which we were wetting ourselveswith when when our players were then starting
to go down James Madison, Yeah, you see the Madison one where he's
got his foot up in the endhe's laughing, you know, yeah,

(33:06):
brilliant and then loads of getting crampedin air quotes. It was fantastic.
It was just like just just dessertsand you want that in football. Don't
even whenever when everyone watching, youknow, a neutral game of football,
and we do watch any football that'sgoing here. It's always on the telly.
If there's a game, one doesn'tmatter who's played. Not Arsenal generally

(33:28):
is the rule. You know,you want the team that has tried to
win the game to win the bloodygame of football, because otherwise watched the
point, you know, and youknow, as we said earlier, if
we're not going to win things,we want to we want to play well,
We want to play nice football,and you want to see those teams
winning, winning everything. And there'sone thing you can say about Man City
is yeah, they've got all themoney in the world to do it,

(33:50):
or do they play nice football onthe way most of the time, you
know, So we sort of feellike, yeah, okay, fine,
you know what, you know whatever, But you know, for us to
try and play the right way,you know, doing it the way we
want to and then to go anddo that if I'd been in the ground,
i'd been on the pitch, Ithink probably honestly, I think people
were were willing to just felt likethat was. It was unbelievable. I

(34:15):
mean the only person that probably wasn't, you know, going mental was actually
and himself. Apparently he was justtrying to get everyone back. And even
for Carrio you see him like legit like lightning. Speed was like warp
speed right down to the bottom andjump and all the people on the bench
were coming off and running on itwas. It was phenomenal. But the
reaction of a of a cup yeahgo, you know it didn't that's not

(34:39):
the sort of reaction you expected ina Premier League game. But what I
think it does show is how muchthey all wanted to win, how freaking
piste off they were with the startof ball. Sheffield were trying to play
the relief that we that we wonit that late and the way we want
it, the style and won ittwo goals and at in time like Jesus
like great come come Kings have tocelebrate that. And you know, if

(35:02):
if at the end of the seasonwe want to amount to something, every
win's got to mean that much,whether it comes in the first minute or
the last minute. Yeah, youknow, talking about that exebrations and stuff,
it's that was the latest comeback inPremier League history. And on the
one before that, which was thelatest come back in Premier League history,
was our game against Leicester. Sowe are the comeback Kings. Come back

(35:23):
Kings. That's because we can't geta foot in front of mate. It's
true. Yeah, but I mean, but the other thing that a part
of, you know, with thosecelebrations and seeing what all the players were
doing is the unity. You know, the fact that the way that they
all came together and for each other, and you know the fact that they
all then at that point, eventhough number of them ran to Kola Sevski,

(35:45):
a lot of them ran also toRichie just because he had set the
winner up and they were just elatedfor him. They just really really wanted
him to feel that love. Andyou could you sense it's like we at
the end of the game, normallygame finishes the music starts up, you
start walking out right, people werestaying behind for five ten minutes because you

(36:09):
know the players. Would you seethem do that kind of holding hands and
walking up to the you know,the park lane and they were pushing Richie
up there and all that kind ofstuff. It was it felt like a
really important moment. And yeah,so yeah, you can have your celebration
police who're telling us that we know, why are we getting so excited,

(36:29):
But actually it really feel like animportant moment. And I don't think,
like you said, it wasn't justabout the result, was it. And
I think, like you know,i'd be lying if I said I have
a gig al at our sort oftimes when they've done that in the past,
the last couple of years or whateverelse. But you know, unless
you're as connected to a football clubas a fun is, you're never really
going to understand that their reaction.And I think, you know, coming

(36:50):
from it from our point of us, we said, you know, the
relief to get the result in thein the style that we got it,
after the refereing performance, after theperformance of the team we were playing against
the fact that most of the time, you know, they talk about the
manager of the month and the playerof the month curse, like we've managed
to overcome that as well. Internationalbreak that's normally a bit of a slip
up for us. Moment, youknow, all of these things, we're

(37:12):
all sort of saying, go on, these are all things that normally,
individually, not even occurring together,you wouldn't go and get a result in
that fixture following this moment. You'vegot them all in one. What are
you going to do? So wewon? We had a we had a
we had a player who's admitted tohaving a real stinky time and it's been
very highly emotionally charged all season.I think we can all say we felt

(37:35):
and it was kind of the happinessfor him. Yeah, And it's just
that whole you know he talks aboutin his book Apostacoglue about you know,
there's always that moment where the playersrealize that what I'm telling them is true
and it's going to happen for them. Right, this could be that moment
for them. I'm not saying itis. I'm not saying we're on the

(37:58):
way there, but it could be. So. Yeah, I think that's
an absolutely brilliant points era that thatmoment may well be the moment everyone starts
to realize. I think we've youknow, the players have obviously brought into
it, perhaps like you're saying,that there is that there is that kind
of just that that moment that usas a fan base and us as you

(38:21):
know, really truly believe in whatwe're doing here, but also that the
players as well. And I justI just it just really struck me.
I can't remember the last time I'dseen, you know, a Premier League
game where there was such unity betweenthe fan base but also between the players

(38:43):
themselves, The way that they heldeach other, they held hands and they
you know, I know you can, we can, we can talk about
how people might just say, well, this is just Sheffildju and I had
come on. But it wasn't justthat it was the never us saying never
give up, as Ane said,never we never give up. It was

(39:04):
it was partly that, it waspartly the sense of justice, and also
it was the you know that therewas probably lots of tweets lined up in
people's ready to go to say typicalSpurs, you know, they always mess
it up and all this kind ofstuff. They can't even beat Sheffield United

(39:24):
and blah blah blah, and theyhad to sort of put those ones aside.
It just felt like a real momentbeyond that game and who we were
playing. The fan base exploded thatthe players really came together and came together
for Richarlison, who was the turnaroundplayer considering everything that had happened to him

(39:47):
just recently. It felt like thefans were showing their love for him and
also for what the team were doing, and they were showing it back to
us, and and you know,the game almost at that point who we
were playing was kind of irrelevant.It felt like a moment between fan and
player. I totally agree, andI think if if you'd asked any Spurs

(40:15):
violent at the start of the seasonwould be be seating taking on the table,
having one as many goals as wehave, having one A scored as
many goals as we had, youknow, at the end of the last
season, when we didn't even knowwho our manager was going to be.
But the season I finished, whenthe football had been utter dross and the
only reason, genuinely, the onlyreason we weren't in a relegation for battles
because we had having fucking game inthe starting eleventh. You know, nobody

(40:38):
would have thought that this, thissituation here unfolding would be possible. I'm
really sorry, No way, noteven if you were on drugs, would
you believe that this was going tobe the outcome. And I think,
you know, people forget that we'vebeen watching a football team but for the
past twenty four months has been erodingany success. It was building quite rapidly,

(40:59):
not pro us in you know,the players, unhappy, managers,
unhappy, fans massively unhappy. Andthis was just a moment of I'm actually
proud to support this football team againas much as anything else. I think
that's that, you know, that'sthat's a big thing to say. It
is, and I think it's animportant thing to say as well. I
mean, don't get us wrong,you know, would be hypocrites if we

(41:20):
didn't say that we backed content atcertain points, because we did, you
know, and and and you know, the games were rubbish, you know,
we got we were backed the teamand him when we were winning,
like the scrappy, horrible one Nils, et cetera. But it weren't things
that we were forgiving. Let's justsay that because we think, well,

(41:40):
we know he's a winner and he'sprobably going to get it right if we
just give him the sort of players. It's not the football that we really
want to see. But okay,what's more important now is we you know,
we were kind of sort of makingexcuses for it all but it but
but when it unraveled as it did, it then really brought it home.
Miserable experience it's been. And andyou know, as you say, it

(42:02):
was probably for me, and I'msure not just for me, I'm sure
for many many other people as well. Probably one of the most miserable times
I can remember since that Sherwood time, which you know, which wasn't very
great either, when we had alot of players who just needed to go
and you know, it was toxic. It was horrible. But and for

(42:23):
him to come in and turn itaround as quickly as he has is incredible,
really, and I think that's youknow, of course, we brought
in quite a few players that's changed, you know, the dressing room.
I'm sure that's had a big impacton that. Lots of them don't have
Premiership experience either, so that couldbe seen as a negative, but the

(42:44):
man himself is that it is theyou know that it is the kind of
the lightning rod I supposed for itall. He's the one that's managed to
bring that unity, not just tothe players but to the fan base,
per saying all the right things andbeing sincere about it as well, and
talking us up, you know,talking about the fact that when he left

(43:06):
Celtic they were a really famous club. But he's come to one of the
biggest clubs in the world, andand and it makes you feel proud.
And he knows that. I mean, I'm sure you know he actually means
it. But also I think hejust knows what to say. He gets
what fans want to hear, becauseyou don't, like we had with Conte,

(43:28):
want to hear that basically, you'redoing us some big fuck off favor.
You know, we're playing the gearsof fifteen million quit a year.
We were doing him a favor.You know, he's you know, I
don't know, but anyway, thankgod those days are over and at the
moment we now are looking forward toshall I say, maybe you know,

(43:49):
maybe that might not be quite right, but but we have the Goon game
at the weekend. How how areyou feeling about it? It's honest,
if you like I'm at the pointwhere I've only just started looking ahead at
our pictures rather than thinking on aFriday night, when are we playing this
weekend. I don't know why Ichose to do it this weekend, because

(44:10):
now I'm like, oh god,I gotta asking this weekend. Actually,
both teams are playing well, bothteams are scoring lots of goals, so
you can almost you can almost betyour bottoms dollar it's going to be a
Neil Neil. But you know,we don't know. We don't have much
success at the Emirates. I thinkplus at least one, so we owe
them one, is what I wouldsay. But I think more importantly what

(44:35):
we want to see again is goingthere, going toe to toe, than
you know, making ourselves proud thatwe've gone there and we've given it go.
We haven't gone there to go andnick it one nil. But yeah,
I think lots of goals. Ithink, you know, it's really
just going to be who can puttheir chances away on the day. I
don't think there's a form card herethat you can even play. But I'm

(45:00):
optimistic, but I wouldn't I wouldbe surprised if we lost. I wouldn't
be surprised if we were anything tosay, no, no, not at
all. I mean, I thinkyou've once again, you know, you've
you've made some brilliant points, areSarah, And I think I don't know.
It's a different type of optimism.It's it's a sense, well,
you know, I think we will, we will, just we will have

(45:22):
a go this. This team isn'tthe sort of team that's going to go
there and lay down. I meanI can't see that. I can't see
and would allow that at the veryminimum, which is you know, win,
win, lose or draw, willgo there and have a go at
them, and not like last fewtimes we've been like cowards. We've not
turned up at all, We've shrank, we've played defensively for just pure fear,

(45:47):
and they've just completely bossed us.This time, I feel there's there's
a reason to be optimistic because Iget the sense that even if we did
lose it, we will at leastsee our players have a damn good go

(46:07):
at it, and that's all wecan ask. You know, it's going
to be a tough ask there.It's going to be really hostile, it's
going to be, you know,a cauldron. I think you know,
like you said, I wouldn't besurprised to see it go either way,
and I'm I'm not, you know, I am cautiously optimistic. But what

(46:30):
would you all be prediction for thescool be Sarah tool tool? Yeah,
that's a good show. Actually,do you know what I'm gonna copy you.
I'm going to say tool as well. I think it feels like neither
side will want to lose this andboth sides will have to go at it.
Yeah. I feel like if youget to, like if you get

(46:52):
to eighty five minutes and you've gotfifteen minutes left to play and it's too
too you could almost see not teamsnot the team's not going for it,
but you can almost see them going. You know, we're going to leave
that extra man back rather than createthe overload, and maybe it will stagnate
a little bit. That being said, if someone's chasing the game we've we're
kind of ten fifteen minutes ago,it will be a very exciting game.

(47:15):
No, mostud rather be in theposition of chasing at that point, because
my heart doesn't code. Well,we've been being you know, if we're
under the cost, we're you know, we don't know what this team will
do in that situation. We don'tknow how they didn't handle it, so
it'll be really really interesting. Yeah, if this was in the ladies at

(47:35):
the Euros thought, I was like, oh, and I'd quite like to
see them go behind this game,you know, because you know we haven't
seen them go behind and what happensif they go behind in a final and
they don't know how to get backfrom behind? And my friends were looking
at me like you crazy. SoI sort of want to see us go
behind to a very good side.How we overcome that. That would be
nice, just not just not gainstArsenal. Yeah, no, I agree,

(47:58):
But do you know what the thingis is that I just don't think
it's in Andre's mindset to then ifit was two too and there were ten
minutes to go to kind of shoreit up, I think he would just
think I'm going to bring on somesubs to try and win it. That's
players buying it. Yeah, wellI spoke of you. No, No,

(48:21):
that's all right, you know,I mean to be fair. I
think I'm just really curious to seehow it pans out. I wonder if
he's going to be as courageous ashe has been in every other game so
far. And you know, ifwe are at that point where it is,
you know, we could draw thisgame and we are, you know,
ten minutes to go, does hebring on subs to try and win

(48:42):
it? Would I suspect he would? You know? And that that's a
that's a massive departure from the lastthree or four managers. Oh. Absolutely,
And I don't know what I thinkeven under Pocchettino, I don't know
that you'd been that brave, tobe honest. So it has a parts
or from everything. And even I'msitting here thinking what I don't make that
change a little bit because I'm like, don't lose now. But you know

(49:07):
his style is And it's interesting toget some some feedback from some Celtic fans.
Was there ever a moment where youknow, they were in a fixture,
whether it be in a probably bein European competition that was big and
important or against rages where he couldhave settled for it and he didn't and
he went and lost it, orno, he went and won it.
Like what is his style? Hashe ever done that? Because everything he
read is that he doesn't. Butfundamentally over course or forty games in the

(49:29):
season, fifty sixty games including carts. I think I wonder do you think
I found base would forgive him though, if it was two two and he
went for it to try and winit and we nearly did, but we
got done on the break and welost it. Do you think that the
fan base are going to go mentorhim and call him naive? Or do
you think we'll just will applaud thatthat courage and this is one of those

(49:50):
moments that he's talked about where youknow, it might well go against us,
but we will, we will bebrave and we will have a go
at it. I wonder how we'llreact to it. I mean personally,
like Spurs funds are very forgiving becauseyou can be a Spurs fand you know,
I think you speaking for myself andI think a large number of people
that I know that if we've gonewe've played, well, we've given it

(50:13):
a go and he goes right,we're going to go and win it for
ten minutes ago, it will feellike a sucker punch, but we'll all
go, well, he's told ushe's doing this from the onset, So
yeah, you know, it shouldn'tbe a surprise, but you'll always get
those you know, that five percentthat overreact. But from my perspective,
it will be interesting to see theplayers were anything because and you can make
those changes, but if the playersstill go to sit behind the ball here

(50:38):
rather than try and play good thingto have shifted enough of that? Yeah,
absolutely, that's what I's going tosay, Sarah. You know the
fact the good thing is we've gotquite a few different and newer players,
and younger players. I mean theaverage age is twenty two, twenty three
or something. Now, isn't itthat they won't have that baggage? Maybe
they won't have that fear, maybebecause it's someone quite a few of them

(51:00):
will never have played in North LondonDerby either. No, it'd be interested
in how cope with it is youknow, someone like Destiny. Oh,
he's an incredible left back. Isthat left back we've been searching. Course
it's Danny Danny Rose sort of losthis four in that position, you know,
and he's really integral to our successbecause if he's not there, we've
got Parisitch or Davies. So,you know, be interesting to see how

(51:24):
they cope with that, but Idon't know. Almost the younger the better.
You get to sort of like twentyfive to sort of twenty nine,
and they know the importance of thosefixtures so that they sort of freeze up.
But then they get to ask thetwenty nine and I've been and done
that enough times now to not freezeup. So it's sort of the squad
is young enough not to freeze upin that situation and enough to cope with

(51:47):
it as well. I mean we'veseen so far that now. Dog,
he looks like, you know,he's as he could be a one hundred
million pound player as well. He'sjust the way that he's fitted in straight
away is surprised so many. Imean, you know, we expected good
things from him, but not soquickly. I totally agree, because obviously

(52:09):
he was playing in French League,Italian League. Italian Yeah, Italian League,
so you know, not an easyleague, but not not the premier
league by any stretch of the imagination. And you know the Premier league,
particularly the style we're playing, youknow, high press, high intensity for
you know, the full ninety minutes. Maybe I'm doing the Italian League of

(52:30):
discuss, but that you certainly don'tbelieve that of the Italian league in general.
So you know, he's stepped up, he's dealt with physicality, he's
dealt with the speed, he's dealtwith the intensity. So yeah, the
last check on the list is probablythat you know that atmosphere on Sunday,
Saturday, SADDI, Yeah, Saturdaybe interesting to see and that's one of

(52:54):
it. But yeah it's Sunday.Yeah, you're right, Sunday. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, really really positiveto kind of see what comes out
of it, really and I won'tbe disappointed as long as we turn up
and we go toe to toe messit because I think that's more than what
we've done for the last kind ofdefinitely free fixtures. Yeah, I agree

(53:15):
with you there, Sarah. Okay, Well, on the note, I
think we'll round it up. I'lldo a quick shout out to Redemption if
you I know they're brewing a newone at the moment, Green Hoop,
I think it's called So I'm notsure when that would be ready, but
if it's, if you're at theLiverpool game, get along there. I
won't be. Unfortunately, I'm goingto be in Santorini. Oh what a

(53:37):
shame, What a shame you're watchingit there though, with some nice wi
Mythos or some Raki or something i'dknow. Oh well, hopefully enjoy that
I need anyway, have a havea great evening anyone, and thank you
for joining the Sarah and me toget you back on again soon if you

(53:57):
don't mind, Yeah, absolutely,no worries cool Spurs Spurs. You know,
there's no place on it. IfI wouldn't, I wouldn't want to
be right here. And you know, in this winute of trying to bring
success to one of the biggest footballclubs in the world, the basic underly

(54:22):
line principles that ye want my teamto play football that scares the life out
of every opposition. That's that's kindof the endgame.