S4 E14 - Prances with Wolves

Ritch Grove and @leebrown2 discuss Wolves game, Everton points deduction, VAR audio, Purple and Gold and Villa home game.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
You know, there's no place Iknow if I would, I wouldn't want
to breathe Ryan here. And youknow, in this minute of trying to
bring success to one of the biggestfootball clubs in the world, the basic
under the line principles that yall wantmy team to play football that scares the
life out of every opposition. Mate, that's that's kind of the end game.

(00:34):
And welcome once again to the VarsideSpurs podcast. And today a very
very busy man joins me, Rich, how are you doing, mate?
I'm I'm yeah, all right,yeah, I don't know whether it's our
sohol or Tuesday at the minute,I'm that busy. Well, you know,
a man of your sort of intellectand genius, I'm sure can juggle

(00:57):
many balls me up for a year, right, Well, talking about setting
up for fails, how about thebreaking news of Everton being Doc ten points.
I mean I've got some distinct viewsin that. What's you're thinking?
I mean it will surprise nobody ifI say something like the game's fucked,

(01:19):
isn't it? Yeah, Like youknow, I mean, yeah, Everton's
broken some rules. They're already beingDoc ten points. What's happening with fucking
Manchester City. What's happening. What'shappened about the fact that Chelsea were owned
by somebody that fucking had all hismoney, stole all his money out of
Russian state for ten years? Youknow, I think it's terrible, Like

(01:40):
they go, yeah, well we'lldo that to Everton because we can.
Yeah, And I think you know, they're they're notably silent on the clubs
that you know, they take onManchester City, They're going to be taken
to task, aren't they. They'llbe dragged through courts and they'll be made
to look foolish and they know it, so they do it to dead and
I think it's fucking despicable. Ithink, yeah, you know, you've

(02:05):
only got to look at how fuckthe game is financially, you know that.
Why have Everton done that? Whyhave Everton broken those rules? Well
because they're trying desperately to stay inthe league and they they're trying and you
know, they haven't been given afucking sixty thousand pounds seat of stadium from
the Commonwealth Games, have they?You know, they haven't. You know,

(02:25):
they haven't been bought out by somebody'sfucking blood money. They haven't benefit
sport washing. They haven't, youknow, and they're a club on the
smaller side of Premier League scale.They're good that are in a position that
we were in at the start ofthe Premier financially. Many people compared their
club to lie, haven't they?Yeah, and you think, you know,

(02:47):
we would dot points what was itninety two ninety three being others having
the stadium fit to host the firstgame of the season. I think it
was. And obviously Sugar fought themthrough court and that kind of ended up
being mitigated a bit. You wonderwhether or not something or I'm not at
with Everton, but you know,I think it's notable that they've gone for

(03:09):
them first and not I think PaddyPower have done that sort of you know
thing about you know, it's theirproblem is they've done it once instead of
one hundred and fifteen times. Yeah, and you know, I think it's
despicable. I think the whole thing'sfucked many A true word said in jest,
right, you know, I meanthat that is absolutely bang on if

(03:30):
you ask me, I mean II have a little soft spot for Everton
because I've got some family in thearea who all Evertonians, but you know,
they are a similar club size andhistorically to us in terms of how
big they once were, and andyeah, like you're saying, really it's

(03:53):
I think Paul O'Keeffe tweeted something alongthe lines of, you know, where
they've gone for Everton and from mistermean is from two years ago, but
there's ones going back to twenty twelvefor Chelsea and also going back, as
you know, a long way forCity and of course they are obviously bigger
brands for the Premier League. Soperhaps they haven't gone for them as they

(04:15):
should have. But why wasn't though, why weren't those investigations more of a
priority before they got to Everton.I'm not saying, you know that perhaps
Everton may or may not have deserved, you know, a punishment. I
don't. I don't think they've beenvictimized here. But there's a level of
hypocrisy that these rich clubs who havegot you know, hundreds of misdemeanors under

(04:40):
their belt, seem to get awayscott free with it. And you know
what will happen if there is akind of judiciary process that where lawyers can
get involved those rich clubs can affordthe biggest lawyer teams whill time up in
knots for forevermore, you know,or you know, or they know that
they'll be challenged by any of thoseprocesses. So I don't know, but

(05:05):
I mean, and of course thereaction to it, quite rightly you can
see on the socials has been ascathing uh you know, with those two
clubs we just mentioned being sort ofin the firing line. But will anything
happen? Yeah, I don't,won't hold my breath anyway. I just
I feel I feel for Everton fans. I think they've gone through quite a

(05:28):
bit as it is. M Yeah, I mean, you know, I'll
say, you know, on thevested interest score as well. You know,
I do have a bit of aspot for Everton. I've got but
you know, lifelong friends who areEvertonians, born at Evertonians, and I
like them, you know, largely, I feel some empathy towards them as
a club because a bit like Tottenham, they've got assholes for neighbors, you

(05:50):
know, and I think, youknow, there's there's there's a bit of
that about them, you know,I mean, yeah, they all get
a bit pantomime villain about young Min'sson and that these days. But you
know, nobody's perfect, you knowexactly that. Okay, right, well
let's get onto the match. Ithought, Rich, what we'd do is,
well, we'll kind of have abit of a brief overview of it,

(06:15):
you know, we won't sort offorensically break it down. I don't
think. I think there's other issuesaround it which I'd like to get on
with and perhaps if we can pickthose apart, so we you know,
did you saw the highlights of Lee, didn't you, Rich? Yeah,
extended lights, was saying to youearlier on. You know. The problem
for me as as a man withabout a million different jobs is, you

(06:39):
know, they put these bloody earlykickoffs on and I'm still at work,
so there wasn't a BBC radio commentaryfor me to follow. Yeah, are
you well? He didn't miss toomuch, I'd say, I mean it
felt to me like the game waskind of almost played out in sort of
four acts, like the first onebeing that we kind of we were quite

(07:00):
positive, you know, and wentfrom scoring the early goal, Johnson got
a goal within three minutes, didn'the, And then I think we came
it kind of became a bit passive. They sort of dominated for a while,
and you know, it felt likethe goal might come. And then
I think the next kind of likefinal phase, we we looked like we
might see it out. We kindof wrestled a bit more of that control

(07:21):
back. But when they got thatgoal, which by the way, was
a worldie. I mean, youknow the way it took that and and
and scored that goal, Serabbia,wasn't it. I think it was on
the ninety first minute you kind offelt the inevitable that they're you know,
their crowd of vociferous moaning throughout,and they and booing everyone and booing Poro

(07:41):
constantly, and he was the Pansamonvillain. But then yeah, and then
of course that swung their way afterthat, and you know, when Lamina
scored in the ninety seventh minute,had kind of felt fairly inevitable. I
don't know whether we kind of look, you know, we've got we seem
to get a bit sloppy with andwe've got run out of gas a bit.

(08:03):
But you know, I mean,what did you make of the match
overall from what you saw in thehighlights? Well, I mean, I
from what I've seen, and Isay, I stand to be corrected,
because I mean, even extended highlightsof cherry picked a bit, aren't they.
You know, it just seemed thatwe were, you know, we
were relying on players that were justnot match fit towards the end. And

(08:26):
that's a surprise really, because upuntil up until the Chelsea game, we
had quite a settled start in eleven, didn't we. And so those players
are shut up and they've and they'vethey've had a dozen games nearly now of
of getting into the rhythm and theswing of it all. And then of
course we have to make wholesale changes. Some of those players are seeing out

(08:46):
ninety minutes when they probably should havecome off after sixty, you know what
I mean. We're talking about playerslike Eric Dyer and Emerson Royale that haven't
really played for a very long time. And I and I thought, you
know, of course, it's kindof written in the stars, isn't it
that if you if your team beginsto look a bit like last season's team,

(09:07):
it's going to play a bit likelast season's team as well. And
And like there was an air ofinevitability about it, wasn't it. Yeah,
I think you know, when youbring in when we had to bring
in quite a lot of changes,as you mentioned. So we had Royal
for a Doggie Hoiberg for Madison,Dyer for Romero Davis, Evan Vanderven and

(09:28):
you know, that's that that's gonnathat's going to change the dynamic of the
team because that that that's you know, pretty much the heart of the team
ripped out. But but you know, but they're they're the players, like
you said, you know, gaveus that feel for last year. Again,
they're the players that couldn't see outa game last year. We expect

(09:48):
them to come in and do,you know, and perform miracles. They
barely Like again you said, haveany match fitness because they've not played much.
I thought, you know, ironicallythey they did. Okay, I
thought, you know, you can'treally hang anyone out, but you're you're
going to get possibly a display likethat because one, you know, they

(10:11):
lack match fitness and two, theseplayers are just they're not good enough.
They're not you know, they aren'tgood enough. So what what do we
expect? These are the players thatalways passing back, always you know,
sitting back. I mean the previoustwo managers kind of chastised the team for
well, I never sent them outto play, you know, to park

(10:33):
the bus, and and yet theywe always managed to seem to do that.
And and again when we played withthese in surprise, surprise, we
end up playing a much more negativeway, with a lot of backward passes
and you know, sitting back deeperall the time. And and you know,
like I said that, they camein and did you know, it
looked like we would see the gameout and did a solid enough job.

(10:54):
But they just they're just you know, they're just not just and just play,
are they you know, well,they're not. And I mean,
you know, like you've said,you know, they they've got this understood
sort of weakness. You know,whether it's a mental weakness or a physical
weakness, or at the moment,I suggest it's probably a combination of the
two. You know, it's it'sit's been well thought out. And of

(11:18):
course, if you look at thetrajectory of the club for the last couple
of years, it's been worked outby successive oppositions. We've picked up you
know, less points each year forthe last two years, you know,
sort of finishing with us finishing anposition last year. I think it was.
You know, there's a reason forthat, you know, and because
whether it's ability or whether it's justyou know, I don't know where maybe

(11:41):
it's just a bit past them now. You know, Diah and Davis have
been at the club for a decade. They're not kids, you know,
they're not. They don't have bright, bright eyes and bushy tails like players
like like you, Doggie and Pappysa have, you know that have got
that sort of youthful energy and desireto establish themselves at a premier league club.

(12:03):
They've been there for a fucking decade, and everybody knows their game.
I mean you see at other clubswith players that have been around a long
time. You know. That's whyI think other teams that are more effective
reshape much more frequently than we do. I just don't think. I don't
think it's about individual mistakes. Ijust think that the game changes and players
can only change so so much.I mean, you know, because he's

(12:28):
got to be free on for hisfree bus pass soon, hasn't he?
Yeah? Yeah, I mean Davisended up with Man of the Match.
I mean, you know, itwasn't because he was a mark, you
know, I think he had asolid game, but they're just not the
players for that system. And wetalked about that with the previous managers not
having the players to fit the system. You know, our first team brilliant,

(12:50):
you know, eleven B eleven amatch for pretty much everybody. But
then when you strip it back andyou go back a bit further, and
we did talk about this in previousparts. Ton't me, Rich, but
in the fact that get a fewinjuries and we seem to have more come
at once and suspensions, you're you'reyou know, you're you're probably going to
be on the end of a coupleof unfavorable results. So I think I

(13:11):
think you know that the meltdown thatI've seen, you know, I felt
it's irked me a little bit.Really, I mean, it's only the
second loss. We've had eight wins, two drawers. We've had two losses.
You know, one of them,I thought we we we absolutely went
for it and were brave. Thisone, I think we just the personnel
and the fact that they were gassedby the end, it meant that,

(13:33):
you know, we it turned around. But I just well, I don't
know, I just want your reactionon this. Rich just recently, I've
seen a number of people talking aboutthe fact that and just tactically naive and
that and basically you know, puttinghim down as a bit of a clown.
Really that that these two matches haveshown that up. I don't agree

(13:56):
with that. What do you thinkabout that? Mate? I think he's
bollocks, you know, I justthink it's bollocks. I'm not entertaining any
of this naivity talk. I thinkit's u a fucking horse shit. And
I think people that you know thatare talking it really are. If I'm
going to be polite about it,they should shut the fuck up. And
that's as I can be. Youknow, I think it's nonsense. You

(14:18):
know, these are not profer Isit other managers that are calling him naive?
People that know about the game,No, it's not. It's people
that were fucking retail or something.You know, Shut up. You haven't
got a clue about naivety or tacticalnows. I don't think there's anything wrong
with anything he's done. I thinkI think that again, it's shifting baseline
syndrome. We didn't expect to winall nine of those games, which is

(14:41):
why everybody went off on this tangentof like should we or could we or
whatever it was, didn't expect tobe in that position, and then suddenly
when the reality bikes and we've losta couple of games, well, you
know, it's all doom and gloom, and I just think, oh,
fuck off, you know, likeI just think, like, like some
of you people have got driving lineand you're allowed to vote and stuff.

(15:01):
You know, yeah, but Ithink a lot of people just thrive off
that negativity. Is like, youknow, it's it's like the news and
papers sell on negative stories and peopleseem to sort of get off and I
don't. But in this case,I just don't. See. If you
dot those two losses around the lasttwelve games, we're not even We're not

(15:22):
even raising an eyebrow. It's likewhat we expected. We've lost. The
only reason that we've probably lost thesetwo games is one because we went down
to nine men and two because we'vegot quarter of the personnela that we would
base our team on not in thenext game. You know, you can't
call the man naive when in thein the first ten games you've had pundits

(15:46):
and opposition fans fawning over him,not just about you know, the way
he conducts himself, conducts you know, talks about the game, but also
that you know, the way thathe plays the game. It's been an
absolute breath of fresh air. Soto start wait in the bed now,
I just feel feels really kind ofimmature. Well it is, you know,

(16:08):
And I think the other thing aboutit is that is that let's take
the Chelsea game, you know,I mean that's the one where the naivety
has really been. You know,it was naive to go at Chelsea with
nine men. Well, I mean, I'm sorry, but up until relatively
close to the end of that game, you know, I mean, we'd
had chances, not only to wehad an equalizer rule now yeah, you

(16:29):
know, you know, and itwas because three very very good chances to
equalize in that game, and thenon any other day would have put that
one away when he was you know, when it came to him, you
know. So I mean, atthat point, are we being naive?
No, we're not being naive.And and I think, yeah, the
score line is four one at theend, but you know two one or
three one. Yeah, fine,I don't think it fucking matters whether it's

(16:52):
three four seven doesn't. And actuallythe fact that we were still in that
competition, in the competition of thatmatch until the eighty fifth minute or what
have you. You know it wasninety fourth minute, ninety fourth sorry,
yeah, yeah, but you know, I mean that shows that it not
only was it not naive, thatit actually I don't think. I mean
glen Odoll's come out and gone,oh no, you can't do this and

(17:14):
you can't do that, and youthink, oh, yeah, fucking glen
od or Yeah, you know what, whoever achieved as a manager, you
know, you think he was thebiggest genius going. I mean as a
footballer, yes, as a managerno, you know yeah. And of
course it's easy to sit on theside and take pot shots because Glen Odell
knows fucking well that he's never goingto be asked to put his money where
his mouth is, you know,like, so it's easy, it's easy

(17:37):
to do that. And you think, I'll tell you what is a litmus
test? Right, anybody but Tottenham? Chris Sutton? Right, hear him
say any fucking thing, you know, anybody but Tottenham. That's him.
Right at the end of that Chelseagame, Chris Sutton went, Chelsea have
come away with the three points,but Tottenham deserve all of the credit for
the way they played. That's ChrisSutton, you know. Yeah, like

(18:00):
Chris Sartton to build a car parkon white Art Lane if it was up
to him, you know. Andm he's saying like, wow, you
know that was a good go Andthen we go, oh, well,
you know you can't press with ninemen and you can't do this. What
can you do with nine men?So why not You're going to lose the
game anyway? Exactly that, mate, you know. I mean it's three
points, so you lose it toto one going, you know, so

(18:22):
you lose it for one going goingfor a result when you're at two to
one, It no bloody difference,is there. I mean you're still three
points at the end of the gamethat you've lost. And the thing is,
if we're going to put nine menbehind the ball and sit on the
edge of our own on the edgeof our own eighteen yard box for us
sixty minutes or whatever, they're goingto score three or four goals anyway,

(18:45):
because you're just inviting all the fuckingtime. Well, I mean, Hoddles
point was that, you know,an under eighteen team could have picked that
team off and scored a bag forWell, hang on, we played Chelsea
and they didn't. You know,they only got the other two games when
you know, basically they they workedout how to you know, to beat
that system and in the last threeminutes of the whole bloody game they knocked

(19:08):
a couple of fortunate ones in,you know. But yeah, so I
don't know. But anyway, it'seasy. It's easy to stick the boot
in on spurs, isn't it.And I think that's and that's one of
the things that perhaps we we atsome point we have to change, you
know, to think it is it'seasy to stick the boot in. And
also it's it's easy to take potshotswhen you're never going to be asked to

(19:33):
put your money where your mouth is. Yeah, absolutely mate, Right,
Well, I think, well,you know, we'll move on from the
game. Anyway. I think,you know, less said about that one
the better. I do think.I do think he will learn from it.
And you know, and Andrews area certain type of manager. You
don't get him in and then hopehe's going to be a pragmatic manager who's

(19:57):
just going to sort of cut hiscloth of cor ardly and just play with
the player he has a way ofplaying. Come Hella, higher water,
We'll go for it. It maywell be that we might have to suffer,
as we said at the beginning,a couple of kind of you know,
unpalatable results as a result, becausewe don't quite have the personnel yet.

(20:18):
That's part of the process, aswe've talked about. Whoever comes in
is going to have to try andlearn that. But he's not going to
suddenly start playing contaball just because thoseare the players we've got in the in
the squad. Don't neither do Ithink he should do, because we have
to be able to adapt to play. And if they're decent enough players,
they're going to have to learn it. And and of course then if if

(20:41):
they can't grasp it, Levy's goingto have to dig in his pocket and
and you know, and get usthe players we need. I mean,
he said all along, this seasonwould be a rocky ride. That's what
you've got, Tom, he said, it's not to me. You know,
he's further We're further ahead than hepredicted he would be. I'm perfectly
happy. I think January sees acouple of players come in. I think

(21:04):
it's going to have to. Itwas always going to have to, and
I think I think we have tojust you know, this is a thing.
In September, we were all saying, well, it doesn't matter if
it's a rocky season, We've justgot to see an improvement and be entertained.
And then two games, two gameshave come and gone where we've lost,
and suddenly, like you say,everybody's wet in the fucking bed over
it, and I think, like, what's happened to your pragmatism from September?

(21:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.But yeah, and you know,
I think to be honest, youknow, and this slightly contradicts what you've
just said, but only a littlebit, you know, this kind of
I can only play one way,mate, you know. I think that's
a bit it's media talk in it, really, because we did see him
set up differently for Wolves, youknow, and I think that shows that

(21:48):
he's not as naive and he's notas one dimensional as he wants people to
think he is. But you know, people talk about naivete. In the
first ten games, we barely conceideda go and everyone thought we were we
were going to be this Harlem Globetrottersside, you know, basically getting smashed
at one end, but trying todo you know, outscore them at the
other end. That that's not beenthe case. We've been pretty water tight

(22:12):
at the back. But you know, two games and people who are losing
their asses. It will be allyeah eventually, you know, And we're
not talking about all right in thenext three, four, five, We're
talking about all right in the longterm of what the project is. And
that's where we need to get to, you know, by by by you

(22:33):
know, towards the end of thisseason, start at some point next season,
we'll start to see it shape upthe way because the way he wants,
because he'll have the squad depth ofthe type of squad players that he
needs to play the way he wantsto, you know, the way he
wants to play. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I mean I'm happy
because when when all I've got tobe honest, that Chelsea game was thoroughly

(22:53):
entertaining, even if we did youknow, you know, on paper,
it was thoroughly and sing because fuckinghell, you know, I've never seen
I've never seen us fight like that. No, no, no, I
mean the only game that What hasn'tbeen really that entertaining was that Wolves game
because one, we looked more passiveand the personnel meant that we we didn't

(23:15):
play the way we normally play,so it wasn't quite as exciting. But
you know, you're talking one gameout of twelve. Yeah, yeah,
you know, so well anyway thatI know you haven't heard the audio,
but the IRS strikes again now they'vejust released the audio from the Romero sending

(23:41):
off and and you know, wetalked about this last game, so we
won't get into whether it was particularlya red card or not, and you
know it probably was. But thesort of pseudo forensic breakdown that we're getting
in this, you know, whenyou when you're seeing what they're doing,
they're putting all these lines in etcetera, it's just absurd. I mean,

(24:03):
it's the VAR teams sound like,you know, some excited Xbox player
kids. You know, it justsounds ridiculous. It sounds absolute chaotic,
but it's but now because it's beingbroadcast, it feels like this is aiming
to be the VAR show that actuallythere's an element of this which is now
playing to another audience with the withthe view that this this audio will eventually

(24:27):
get released and there they're going tobe the spectacle. If you like the
part of the show itself, theyshouldn't be part of the bloody show.
We'll wait in five or six,seven, sometimes longer in terms of their
analysis of the game, until wefind out what's going on. Well,

(24:48):
you know, you look at Romero'sthey sent him off said because they said
it's dangerous playing it could have causedan injury. The five or six minutes
of hanging around that could cause injuries. Yeah, yeah, yeah, players
get cold and then they snap hamstrings, don't they. Yeah, it's a
nonsense. I mean, we haveto do something about it. But I
mean, and I think their meetingsplanned. But what do you think they

(25:10):
can do? Rich? Well,I mean it is difficult, isn't it.
I mean, it's difficult in therespect that it's a stop start solution
to a fluid game. It's alwaysseemed to me to be problematic in its
conception. Right, The obvious answeris you see it. I mean,
we've just you know, I'm suremost of us, if not all of

(25:32):
us, have just watched the RugbyUnion World Cup rugby game. Where's that
sort of var style officiating works quitewell. But rugby union is a game
where everybody stops every five minutes anyway, or thirty seconds anyway because the ball
goes out of play or you knowthat that's just the nature of the game,
whereas football is a game is actuallyis only what it's Its main attraction

(25:56):
is that it's fluid and dynamic andquick and excited, and it turns over
quickly and you go from one endto the other and all of those sort
of things which you don't really tendto get in rugby. You know,
any other game where this remote officiatingworks is also stop and start. There's
tennis, there's cricket, you know. I mean, we can look at
all these is where they've done it. They're all stop start games. And

(26:17):
I just don't think the concept isapplicable to football. I just don't think
it is. I don't think Ican't see your way for it to be
worked. I mean, people talkabout this semi automated business and the automated
and oh yeah, well we'll letfucking chat GP GPT do it or some
of the fucking nonsense, like itain't gonna make the game any better.

(26:37):
The game survived perfectly well for onehundred and twenty five years, and it's
in its current you know iteration withoutyeah and managers moaned like fuck about referees.
Managers are still moaning like fuck aboutreferees. So it's not solved anything.
So I have to say, likeyou say, unless it is to
do with this, like oh yeah, well, let's make the whole thing

(27:00):
a spectacle. And in the contextof the modern game you can see that,
can't you, with its wits andits glamour and its air cannons,
and it's you know, all ofthis fucking nonsense that we have to put
up with when we go to gamesnow, and all of this, you
know, like you know, likemany in stupid pointy shoes standing in front
of big TV screens in studios goingyeah, you know, look at Linz

(27:23):
and like, none of that isinteresting and none of its important and none
of it adds to the game atall, but the people that run the
game think it does. And inthat context, VR is great, but
it's crap. Yeah. I mean, you've got this show now, haven't
you, with Michael Owen and HowardWebb who are playing the audio back,

(27:44):
and it's become it's become an actualshow, so that you can't you can't
tell me that people in the fuckingvar you know, the kids that on
the Xbox and the var thing arenot thinking, oh goodie, it might
be my voice on the on theV list, you know. Yeah,
they're can say something nice about mebecause I've got the decision right, you
know. And you know, Imean referees like Michael Oliver and Howard Ware

(28:07):
but all these guys, you know, we've been saying for years the biggest
problem with them is that they wantedto be as famous as the players.
Yeah, yeah, you know,uh, and that's that's it. Like
the problem with it is that theyare celebrity now and it's become it's become,
it's become this sort of celebrity aspectof it. And yeah, you
know, another ex broke and creamerliving out of Sky Sports waffle into a

(28:30):
referee. I mean, I mean, and won't they love it? Because
when they when they running around,well they can all go on the radio
and on the TV now and bean expert on it and talk about and
they can criticize other referees and makethemselves look clever. And you think you
fucking clown. You're the bloke thatthat, and you the bloke that disallowed
youanvertungue and for being offside when hewas in his own arf when he got
the ball and all that sort ofstuff. You're right, like, I

(28:53):
think anonymity is the thing. Thewhole thing should be made so that they
can be anonymous. Again, let'slet's not build them up to be celebrities.
Let's not make them as famous asthe players, because it ain't working.
Their egos are getting in exactly that, you know. I mean,
I think we probably said this beforeas well. But obviously there's an element

(29:14):
of subjectivity because there's humans involved withthe off side stuff which seems to take
forever, and they're using like bloodyZX spectrums wherever it is to bloody analyze
it, or with a great,big, giant blocky pixels. It's like,
well in Europe they're using a kindof automated system. If you use
that, and that takes that humanside out of it. Whether it's right
or wrong, it's going to bethe same for everybody. So just just

(29:40):
to use maybe use that because it'sgoing to have no bias. It's going
to be the same for everybody.But when you've got humans involved and they're
oh, just bring it back afron, just do that for that one,
hang on a second, move thatdown here, put that on the
edge of it. It's like it'sall you know and you've got and it's
against the clock. So humans aregoing to make errors, whereas if you

(30:03):
use in a computerized system that theydo in Europe, it will do it
and then you know, sometimes itwill get it wrong, sometimes it get
it right. Be a bit ofthe same for everybody. And I think
that will speed it up if that, because you know, as far as
I'm saying, a zero chance they'regoing to get rid of a fucking you
know, so you might as wellhave something which is semi automated like that

(30:25):
and take some of the human thingsand the humans only get involved if they
think someone's you know, miss theleg breaker or something. Just I mean,
it's the whole thing. Doesn't seemto solve any of the problems with
it. Lee. That's what Imean, is you know you're going to
get that. Yeah, we couldautomate it. I mean, yeah,
I think you're right. I thinkwe should if we are using the system,
use the same one as they useon the continent. But I don't

(30:48):
think anybody should be using it.No, you just said, like you've
just said, sometimes it'll get itwrong, sometimes it'll get it right,
but it'll be the same for everybody. Right Well, that to me is
no different from it used to besimple when it was yeah, preaching to
the converted here unless like, noneof it's ever going to solve anything.
And it's because it's subjective, that'sthe word. The game is so dynamic.

(31:12):
My question has always been an offside thing, right well, when
a player kicks the ball and itgoes forward in the opposition half, the
player who is offside is in frontof the last defender or what have you.
Yeah, okay, so we canall draw lines on a screen and
say his shirt cuffee is half acentimeter or what have you. But at
what point is it when the passingplayer makes contact with the ball. Is

(31:33):
it when when the ball makes anoise that can be picked up my Cameron's
obviously going to be half as fractionof a second or later? Is it
when the ball starts to move.Is it when the ball has left his
boot that you can see daylight inbetween the ball and his boot. So
the ball can said to have beenpassed. What point because in half a
second a player can move alter yard. Yeah, exactly. And and thing,

(31:56):
we've already seen the controversy about theyou know, the Arsenal goal where
you know, did the ball goout? And of course the ball it
has a curvature, so you know, and everyone should say, we all
seen that kind of little video goingaround that it looks like it's out.
Then when you stand over the topof it, it looks, you know,
the ball curvature shows it's in.But but but the same process then
applies on field as well as offfield in the in the in the you

(32:19):
know, as the ball is goingout. So how deceptive is all of
that because from the eye you're talkingabout daylight, and that looked like daylight
was it meant that ball was out, But from another angle it would have
looked like the ball was still notquite cross the light. It's it's practically
impossible to get this right. It'snot as scientific as they seem to make

(32:43):
it. And people will talk aboutit being forensic. It's not really forensic.
It's pseudo forensic. You know.It's like it's make believe shit,
and you know, and I think, and I think the only conversation that
needs to be had is whether ornot we are able as a fucking society
that of people that watches football andappreciates it and as a group of people

(33:04):
that play it for a living andfor fun, to be able to say
football is a subjective game, period, perfect and that's it. And if
we can be mature enough to havethat conversation and say, well, you
know, sometimes it goes for you, sometimes it goes against you, what
are you going to fucking do?And if the answer is well, we
can't do anything because we've tried thetechnological solution. Actually all it did was

(33:28):
move the problem to a different place, but it didn't solve the problem,
which is the reality of it.Yeah, then then you have to be
adult enough to go, well,this was a test. And what we've
done is we've proved that it doesn'tactually make things any better, because we
still have to put up with Jurgenklop fucking moaning, and we still put
up with mikel Arteta crying in thefucking press conference, and we still have

(33:49):
to put up with all of thesethings that we've always had to put up
with. The only difference is they'rejust crying about something different. Now,
so what was it solved? Itsolved nothing. I know. Let's not
be whole fucking thing down, saveall the money and then let's make the
Premier League the same as all theother leagues in the country that don't have
it. Yeah, and if theargument is rich that that basically it stops.

(34:10):
Then the bigger clubs getting the decisionsbecause of sort of unconscious or conscious
bias. That's that's bullshit as well, because those people like Club and Arteta
come out and moan the hell andyou you sure as ship see that other
clubs or you know, get apayback of that somehow or other. They
still is still it's still a biasthat play it, absolutely so I don't

(34:36):
think it helps. This is whythey come and do this ship in press
conferences and why they release statements tosay, oh, this is all corrupt
and it's terrible and all that,because it's their way of exerting pressure upon
the official game. The next timeLiverpool kick a ball on the field,
the referee is going to be goingship me. You know, he had
one on him the other day.I don't want to give him the same

(34:57):
you know, say that's petulance andnot reckless. Yeah, you know exactly.
You know, like you hear allthese things about oh the manager storm
down the tunnel into the referees changingroom, and you think, well,
why the fuck are they allowed todo that, because that's exerting that's exerting
pressure upon the referees, and theofficials say, all of this is the

(35:22):
big clubs are always going to getthe beneficial you know, the clubs that
I've got, the strongest managers,the most voice iferous managers are always going
to get that. And anybody thattries to tell you that that is not
an active part of their tactical developmentas a coaching staff, they're the naive
ones. Absolutely, bang on,mate, bang on. So with the

(35:45):
next two games on the horizon,there's the potential for maybe another couple of
unfavorable results. We've got Villau playingextremely well. Will come to them in
a second. They're we've got themat home again, we'll be missing some
key players. And then of followingthat, we've got City away and we

(36:06):
still have a lot of our keyplayers. Even Romero won't be back by
that point. Let's be unusually negativefor us and say, we don't really
get much, if anything, outof those two games. Will we see
the Purple and Gold mob back witha vengeance? Do we think because they
seem to have laid low we've gotOornstein throwns some fuel on that fire,

(36:30):
saying that we don't plan to spendany money or next to nothing in January,
which seems to be counted by whatAndre was saying about, you know,
trying to do business early. Butwhat do you make of that?
And do you think that we'll seethem rattling their sabers again? Yeah?

(36:50):
Well, I mean we've all I'vealready seen a few preemptives from them,
you know. Yeah, if Levydoesn't back in, we need to do,
you know, and like they're alreadystarting, so of course, you
know, I yes we will.One of the beauties of leaving Twitter or
or shitter or whatever it's called thesedays is that I don't tend to see

(37:14):
them so much anymore. It's reallyrather nice on Blue Sky. There tends
to be a bit of a blanketpolicy of people just fuck them off when
they appear. Sorry, if youcan hear something in the background, somebody's
just started a tractor outside the boat. Yeah, so yeah, they're they're,

(37:38):
they're they're always going to be there. I think they're waiting for an
excuse, aren't they all the time? You know. I mean it's it's
been difficult for them to get anytraction for the last few games, but
I'm sure they're salivating at the prospectof being able to point fingers and accuse
people of of I don't know,being cook holded by Daniel Levy or whatever

(37:59):
fucking and said about this time.Yeah, I do fear, you know.
I mean, you know, ofcourse, we have no idea how
these games are going to go,but they're going to be difficult, and
I think we just have to hold, you know, hold our nerve a
bit really and you know, understandwhat we're trying to do. I mean
that Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say, you know,

(38:21):
and and this project wasn't meant tobe an overnight fix, wasn't meant to
have been fixed in this summer.We've had some great results in the meantime,
but you know, and wouldn't havecome without those promises. He's indicated
as much in his press conferences.He's talked about what he's hoping to do

(38:44):
in the next over the coming transferwindows to shape the team up and the
squad up how he wants it tobe. And he's literally talked about the
fact that we're only at the verybeginning of what he wants to do in
this evolution. So yeah, Imean, it would only be, wouldn't
it kind of a gender driven stuff? I can't but I but like you,

(39:06):
I can see and I've seen afew preempty ones myself, which is
why I raise it, uh,the them starting up again if we if
we don't get a couple of goodresults, which would be such a shame
because I think that would then startto pile the pressure on, pressure on
and as well, because that's uh, I don't know. That's just how
it works, isn't it. Idon't know as it is, though,

(39:29):
is it really? I think wegive too much credence for this stuff?
I don't think. I don't thinkcertainly from what you can see of him
and his personality, I think hewould probably be able to brush that off,
you know, he almost it's almostsaid he likes that kind of thing,
doesn't he that kind of challenge?Well, yeah, and I mean
you know, yes, if theif the results go against him, then

(39:50):
pressure will mount upon him. ButI don't think it will necessarily be anything
to do with that lot. Ithink because that's the pressure of what he
puts upon himself and the club hierarchy, as as the standards that they seek
to uphold. You know, whatwe think about them and what people say
about them online or in other capacities, I don't think really has got any
bearing on it. And I don'tknow, I mean, yes, I

(40:16):
think the other thing is we haveto I've got to sort of try and
wind myself back down again because Ido get a bit sort of like,
oh my god, these people areso fucking assholes, you know about it
all. And actually I think,you know what, they're entitled to their
opinions, even if I think bullshit, they are entitled to them.
And actually that is the rich tapestryof the world that we live in,

(40:36):
and I've got to just put yeah, you know what, we're never all
going to agree. Actually, itprobably doesn't do any harm to have them
people around the club, because actuallythey are a tempering force, you know.
I don't like the anti Semitism thatcomes out of some of them.
Towards Daniel. I don't like theway they go about it sometimes, you

(41:02):
know, I mean always in theground last season and you know they're singing
about, you know, fucking hangingDaniel Levy, stringing him up outside the
club and all that pound no balloonson the kind of stuff. Yeah,
it's fucking no need for any ofthat. And I don't I can't see
how any of that is ever isever designed to make a positive impact on

(41:23):
the club. None of that's evergoing to fall to change. That's that's
that's that's not affirmative action that getsthe German changed or the board changed.
That's just it just abuse. Yeah, I mean, if they've got a
legitimate protest, which you know obviouslythey will think they have, and you
know, and over the last seasonor two we've had our gripes about the

(41:45):
way that things have been run.But you know, protesting is the right
way to do it. But then, as you were saying, the problematic
issues which we'll creep in and especiallynow with what's going on, you know,
with exact on guards of that,I don't think that really is you
know, there's too many sensitivities aroundthat. I think that would be really

(42:06):
really problematic. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think in terms
of the Purple and Gold or whatever, I think you've got to just be
able to tune them out and say, you know, they are they're like
any any minority group in any sphere, whether it's football or politics or what

(42:27):
have you. You know, theythey're right, and you know, so
long as I'm able to sort oftune it out to the best of my
abilities. And I think that's theonly thing that any of us can do,
because we can't reasonably expect them tovanish, because they ain't gonna Even
if things do go oh well,it'll always be tempered with, it will
always be to well, we couldhave done better, you know. You
know, I mean, imagine,let's imagine we won the fucking League this

(42:50):
year. There'll be people out theregoing, yeah, but if we'd been
in the Champions League as well,we could have won both of them.
Yeah, you know. I alwaysthere's always somebody that's got some fucking daft
to say. Yeah. Yeah,well, as Ann said, you know,
you're either under siege or preparing tobe under siege. So I think
he's you know, he's ready.You know, he's not naive about that.

(43:14):
I've heard from a good friend ofmine who's as a source that we
are very close to. If not, we've perhaps already done the deal for
Jotta, who's the ex Celtic playerwho's gone to play in Saudi. I
think he's coming on a free thatthat looks like that could well happen,

(43:36):
so that that would be good,that'd be good. I mean that,
you know, help us out inattack. Yeah, yeah, I think
so. I think so. Andit's nice to see proactive moves being made,
you know. I mean, wecan't expect to have built a first
team squad in one window, butI think we can expect to see these
kind of positive changes and that's definitelythe sort of signing we should be making.

(43:59):
You know. Again, I knowthere is a tradition of managers bringing
in players that they know, butthere's a good you know, there's good
precedence for that. He knows thathe can do the job that he's going
to want him to do, andhe's assessed our teams and will have seen
he's as good as anybody there oror feels that he can do a job.
And I think that that's where we'vegot to be because you've got to
have players that are good enough andplay the type of system and the way

(44:22):
you want to play, but alsoare not going to agitate when they're not
getting a game every single game.So you need to know the person,
don't you. You know, ifyou've got a player who might be supremely
you know, or really talented,but he's just agitating all the time because
they're not playing, it's going tobe detrimental. So you've got to get

(44:43):
right the right balance. And ofcourse he knows him. I'm sure if
he thinks he's the right person,he will be the right person. He
will be the right person. Yeah, yeah, very much. So.
So I mean it is you know, it's what six weeks until the transfer
window. Yeah, so you know, we haven't got long to wait to
see, hope fully more of thissort of stuff happening. So yeah,
if there's one thing that I wantthe club to do differently in the future,

(45:06):
it's none of this deadline day nonsensethat we seem to be famous,
you know, And it's kind ofthese things in advance. Seems to be
a really good sign in that direction. Yeah, and and has said that
publicly as well, that he wantsto get any business done early so they
can get them, you know,in the way as quickly as possible,
kind of thing. You know.Okay, Well, we have on the

(45:30):
I think it's the twenty seventh esta Sunday week. We're playing Villa at
home. Yeah, Presumer will beout and but our Doggie will be back.
Do you think there'll be many changesin terms of the team, Well,
I mean, I think the importantchanges that are the ones we're unable
to do anything about, aren't weyou know, the two missing central defenders

(45:53):
Romero and Mickey. You know,he can't do a lot about them,
and we've got we haven't got anyother options and to do what we have
done against Wolves. So I don'tthink there's going to be an awful lot
at the back, you know,that's the worry. I don't. I
actually think we'll beat I think thatthey are a really tough team. I

(46:14):
think they're I think they they liketo play on the counter and they're pretty
damn good at it. So Ithink that would be one of the worries
for us in terms of the youknow, with who we got in defense,
and you know, will will theyyou know, will will they kind
of out fox us on that basis. But I'm thinking maybe if there are

(46:35):
going to be any changes, becauseobviously presumers not there, that might mean
Heiberg drops back to six, wemight see la Celso come in and perhaps
that might give us well, I'llgive you grief, but that might give
us a little bit more creativity.I mean in the Tottenham chair Ever again,
why the Yeah, I'm the samefor Hoiburg mate. You know,

(46:57):
I've given him some props recently forbut he's the sort of player that come
on and for the last fifteen totwenty minutes can do a job, not
not starting. He's a bad thatlost his man for Wolves winning goal.
Again, did we not see himstanding in the middle of the park with
his hands on his hips just beforethey scored. Yeah, don't get me
started on and all that, butyeah, fucking Jeer. Also, why

(47:19):
what what? Why? Who didyou play there? Though? I mean
who you've got? I mean wewe Who is it Dorrington? Maybe people
are talking about it or no?So Donnelle. Isn't it that people have
said he can play similar to that? But he's still a youth team player.
Bent and Kirby don't think he canplay the whole game. You start
with him, haven't you, Becausehe's he's got to play himself to match

(47:40):
fitness, hasn't he. And inthe absence of Madison, I think bendon
Kurr's return is oh yeah. Butyou know again, if you if you're
moving those players about, we don'thave rich Arlison to fill that advance that
goes into that into the know.But you know, it's difficult, isn't

(48:01):
it. But you know again,I just keep sort of looking at it
and thinking, if Gio Selso isthe question, what is the answer?
What the fuck is the question?Mm hmm yeah, curate Sega a players
is probably the best way to describe. We should play him against Villa purely
for the reason that I want usto sell him to Villa. Yeah,

(48:22):
yeah, yeah, I think.I mean there's talk of him being homesick,
so you know, maybe can getsort of fifty million and send him,
send him back Spain or Argentina atone of the two. We all
do it. Just get get ridof him, Just fucking remove him from
the equation, you know, Imean, you could employ a parking steward

(48:44):
for his wages, you know,like, just do you know what I
mean, like put more dinner ladiesin the canteen or something useful with that
money. Stop giving it to himbecause hopeless. Yeah, yeah, you
could be right. I mean,you know, he didn't look particularly matt
sharp in the in the last gamewhen he came on, And yeah,
I have no idea. It's goingto be a conundrum. I can't see

(49:06):
lots of changes, but I justfeel that maybe because I think Hoiberg played
as that eight, didn't he inthe last game and was useless, and
then persum has now been suspended,So I just see that kind of maybe
him dropping back to feel that andmaybe I think that's probably the most likely,
isn't it, because you know,he has got a run in that

(49:29):
sort of position on the previous managersat this club, you know, And
it's just a shame because I mean, you know, I know I've said
this on many occasions in the past. He does play that eight role internationally
with a lot of success on it, a lot slower than the Premier League,
but it would be nice to seehe obviously has the capability of doing

(49:49):
that. I mean, he's gota shot on him, he has got
a final pass on him. Basically, strong, he can hold players off
and hold the ball up and bringplayers into the game. He just doesn't
seem to do it. And andit is a bit of a conundrum because
I think it's a real shame.I think there is a really, really,
really good player inside Hoiberg. Ijust I think he's maybe all that

(50:10):
chest bumping is when it's trying toget out, you know, and get
back in there, get back staying, you know. I reckon, We're
gonna have to maybe give Davis andDyer some of clop specials, the what
do you call it, the inhalers. Yeah, maybe maybe that that will

(50:35):
help them, and some class Adrugs. Maybe we're the ones that get
fucking done for that though. Iwouldn't we situation, Yeah, they would
do the investigation they never had,they never had asthma. No, send
them all to jail. Yeah,I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn
that. Everton, I've had pointsdot because Liverpool used nails. You know,

(51:00):
there's that fucking video and that's goingaround online of the west Ham fan
west Ham and massive and he goesto have a go at the Arsenal fan
in the classroom and there's a plutdamFanny because you get out. You know,
that's Everton getting points for Liverpool usingus in tailors. Right, let's

(51:22):
still predictions and wrap up, buddy, I'm talking ship as usual. Yeah,
I think we'll be I think we'llbe Miller two one at home nice
one. Yeah, I think mmhmm. I think this might be a
Desmond to too. Yeah. Yeah, But do you know what, I'm

(51:45):
strangely enough, I mean, youknow, I'm still looking forward to the
game, and that's and that's ameasure. Like last season, we talked
about this, you know, Iwas selling some of my tickets sometimes in
the end. I was going thislike the game just to see friends and
just to be able to reflect backand say we still went even though it

(52:07):
was shit. But yeah, butnow I'm kind of like, well,
there is hope and we do playgood football and there is a positive vibe
about it. Okay, you mighthave been a couple of not so good
results recently, but it's not doomand gloom. I still can't wait for
the game. So despite me sayingI think it might be a too,

(52:28):
it could be a too too becausethey're good on the counter. That's that's
my worry. I'm still looking forwardto the game. I think it will
be a good game. Yeah,yeah, I think this is what we
were asking for and this is whatwe've got, which is why I can't
understand why people are moaning. Youknow, we've got entertainment, we've got
fun back, we've got the possibilityof a decent result. We've got you

(52:50):
know. Yes, like you say, it's a bit sticky at the minute,
but you know, nothing ever,nothing worthwhile, was ever straightforward,
you know, exactly exactly. Yeah, sorry, Man City. Then what
do you think is can happen there? Hmm? Yeah, we're still going
to be missing quite a few players. Yeah, that that that one I

(53:13):
am concerned about. I think Ithink we could maybe lose that one three
to one, but who knows,who knows. Yeah, I wouldn't be
at all surprised. But then again, the thing about us playing Man City
is it's always a surprise result.I mean, yeah, we have been
their bogie team for years. Yeah, we've seen us, you know,
rock up to play them or youknow, and we've been absolute dogshit for

(53:35):
the Tang games before it and theTang games after it, and we've somehow
turned them over I mean you lookat you know, you think about last
year after they lifted everything and theyand they interviewed Guardiola and he went,
well, you know, now thatyou've achieved it all with Man City,
what is it that you want forthe future And he said, I would
love to score a goal at Tottenham. Yeah, yeah, anything, anything

(53:59):
is possible. Who knows, whoknows? Anyway, mate, we'll we'll
wrap up. Hopefully we'll get achance to sort of preview that in the
in the next week or so.But yeah, thanks for joining us.
Hopefully we were able to give youa bit of therapy maybe should we call
it that in terms of like lookingat the positives and spelling some of the

(54:22):
ship. You've given me some You'vegiven me the opportunity to call people fucking
idiots in public and that really helpswith my blood brother. I'm a lot
calmer now than I was. Goodstuff. All right, we'll wrap it
up there, mate, And onthat note, I'm on New Spurs.

(54:45):
You know, there's no place Iknow I would I wouldn't want to be
Ryan here. And you know,in this minute of trying to bring success
to one of the biggest football clubsin the world, the basic underlying principles
and yao on my team to toplay football that scares the life out of
every opposition mate. That's that's kindof the end game. Mhm m m m