S4 E16 - Ange Pep Talk Changes Everything

Ritch Grove and @leebrown2 discuss getting inside Pep and Ciy's heads - again. Ange's motivational skills. Playing to our strengths and then we preview the upcoming games agaist West Ham and Newcastle.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
You know, there's no place Iknow if I would, I wouldn't want
to be with Ryan here. Andyou know, in this minute of trying
to bring success to one of thebiggest football clubs in the world, the
basic under like principles that I wantmy team to play football that scares the
life out of every opposition. Mate, that's that's kind of the end game.

(00:33):
Welcome to the Barside Spurs podcast forUpbeat Podcast this week. Joining us
today is Rich Grove. How areyou mate? Pretty good? Mate,
pretty good. I'm a lot morepositive about things and I thought we were
going to be on this podcast.Yeah, we do. We owe an
apology, do you think No,I don't think so. I don't think

(00:56):
you should ever really be a apologeticfor being cautious. I mean, you
know, especially not when everybody's youknow, everybody, everybody's accusing everybody else
of being the sort of naive andgetting away with things when they're not,
you know exactly. I don't thinkwe were the you know, the lone

(01:17):
wolves in this I think pretty mucheverybody was predicting that we would, you
know, we'd struggle in this game. And I heard some people was predicting
we might even get beat, youknow, five and six. Neil,
Well, I think if I remember, we predicted three one, didn't we
Yeah? Yeah, Yeah, Imean I think if I remember rightly,
I did say we'll get beat,but it will probably be a positive beating

(01:40):
like the one that we had upthere when sold a penalty just saved.
I think that was the analogy Imade. Yeah, but you know,
I mean, you know, wecould always go down the road of trying
to convince everybody that we were wewere tempting fate. You know, that's
what we were doing reverse when itworked a treat. Yeah, well,
I think we were probably sort ofprotecting ourselves, won't We really think there's

(02:02):
an element of us kind of makingit feel like, you know, we
expected and not, you know,truthfully a result which would would be difficult
for us. So there's an elementof self preservation in it, I suppose.
But you know, in the end, they did score three goals.
We were right on that front.But we did score three goals. So

(02:23):
I think we should just get straightinto that. I think first of all,
I just kind of get generally,get your thoughts on the first half
and how we played, and doyou think we got lucky. Yes,
I think, I think by sortof common admission, and I think even
Andrews said this, or I thinkit was Andrew might have been. Some
said after the game that we werelucky to still being the game at halftime.

(02:46):
I think we did get lucky.We were off the UK a little
bit. I mean, we startedwell enough obviously, but I think they
could have have sort of blown usaway on another day. They'd have got
that hat for wouldn't they in thatfirst Yeah? Yeah, you know,
but you know, to sort ofto bring up the first cliche of other

(03:08):
day. You know, it reallywas a game of two halves, wasn't
it. Absolutely Yeah, yeah,we'll cover that, but I think it
was incredible how that two halves wereso different. It was, and I
think there was because of a substitution. We'll again, we'll get into that
later on. But so yeah,I you know, I think the game

(03:29):
took us all by surprise the firsthalf. Maybe not so much because,
like you say, they could havehad this a hatful, but the fact
that when when some then was putthrough by Hill and scored again another sort
of classic goal that some scores,I thought he was going to square it
but ended up sort of putting itlow underneath the keeper. Lovely, lovely

(03:51):
goal. And then he went onand got an own goal not long after,
you know, something like that,just over two minutes later. Yeah,
and then you know you're sort ofthinking, okay, you know,
right, we try not to getyour hopes up here. And and then
minutes later, Doku hits the bar, you know, which, it then
hits the post and comes out.Harlan misses an open goal, Alvarez hits

(04:15):
the post as well. All inthat first half, Foden scores, which
which then makes it too one tothem, and you are fearing the worse
at that point. I mean,I I thought, you know, I
wasn't actually that displeased with the waywe played. Clearly they were dominating,
but I thought we could be.It could be a cricket score by halftime.

(04:36):
Fortune meant it wasn't. But alsoso did the way that we played.
You know, this, this themantra of attack is the best woman
defense really did help us, Ithink in this game. Yeah, yeah,
very much, so, you know, and I think, you know,
how do we have adopted that sortof you know that the cautious approach

(04:56):
that we've seen over the last fewseasons, although ironically enough, Manchester City
is one of the places where thoserules went out of the window under Jose
and Conte, you know, morethan one occasion. But if we'd have
if we'd have adopted our more sortof habitual, sort of cautious approach,

(05:18):
I think they'd just picked us off, wouldn't they. Yeah, And and
of course, you know, throughoutthat first half you had the commentators and
all talking about naive and and andyou know, basically Spurs have got to
find a different way to this andthat kind of stuff. And then when
actually in the second half it didchange around we brought on Hoiberg, they

(05:39):
took that as kind of vindication that, you know, their idea was what
I don't think that was the case. We still played on the front foot.
So what they were talking about wasbollocks. It wasn't that we then
started to tighten up and shure itup at all. In fact, the
opposite in many ways, because wehad more control when he came on.
And I, you know, Ijust feel that there's this kind of lazy

(06:03):
attitude that is because they're saying itis seeping into other people's mindsets that and
is just this, you know,never done it any in any big leagues.
He's incredibly naive and he has toadapt to what he's got. We've
said, we've said this before.That's not what he's going to do.
He keeps saying it. You cansee he's getting a bit fed up with

(06:25):
it. This is our way andit paid off. M Yeah, yeah,
I mean totally. You know,I think, you know, Hill
might be a little bit lightweight interms of you know, body strength.
I think if there was one,you know, if there's one sort of
defining factor of his first half,was that was that he was sort of

(06:46):
bullied a little bit sometimes in possession. But that said, you know,
I mean he did make some reallyreally important contributions, you know, especially
to the first goal. I think, yeah, yeah, that was magnificent.
I mean, I agree with you, which actually I still think he's
if he's going to make it,he definitely still like Silver. He has
to bulk up somewhat and still tobe premiership ready, and I thought he

(07:11):
had been trying to do that.He was you know, knocked off it
too much, which is possibly whyhe was taken off. But that said,
you cannot doubt his technical ability becausethat turn and pass was exceptional.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, don't get me wrong, you know,
I mean, I'm not even criticizinghim, you know, in terms
of in terms of how he didperform and and and what happened with him

(07:35):
on the field in that first half. I think I think perhaps it was
possibly a shape change more than aas much as a personnel change half time,
rather than somebody looking and going,man, he's getting murdered. We
need to get him off the pitch, you know. But you know,
it's I think there's a difference.So, you know, players like Luke

(08:00):
Modrich were extremely small and extremely slight. But but although Modris was never the
quickest pasive, quickest paced player,he was very very quick at moving the
ball out from under his feet,so when when contact came in, the
ball was already gone. Whereas Hillsa very quick player, but plays with
the ball at his feet for longerperiods of the time that he's in possession,

(08:22):
and so when he gets turned overhe generally loses the ball. So
I wonder whether or not it's actuallya case of him needing to ball up,
or whether or not he needs tojust learn to be a little bit
quicker with his feet and the ball'sgone before the challenge comes in. And
I think that might be an easierthing for him to do than to suddenly,
you know, find an extra tenkilos in muscle muscle, you know.

(08:46):
So yeah, maybe criticized him,you know, I think, you
know, it's good to see thathe was getting the start, you know,
and it's good. Yeah, Okay, you know, Kyle Walker is
a past master and made him madehim look a bit naive at times.
But you know, Kyle Walker isan exceptional footballer as we all remember,
and he'll do that to most peoplein the Premiership. So yeah, I

(09:11):
don't think there's any shame in that. No. Once again, like last
part we were talking about being kickedand how Moderick adapted. I think also
when we look back at Modrich,he was getting done quite early and then
he realized. He just said tobe that just a little bit quicker on
the half turn, and then hewas away and I think, you know,
maybe you're right there, Rich.You know, there is just something

(09:31):
about you need to be just slightlyquicker like like he was on that that
turn and that past that was thatthat just split their defense that was incredible
and then Kulu's pass was just youknow, was was was fantastic for some
to sort of head on and thenrun that goal and score that, you
know, absolutely brilliant goal, asamazing team goal. I mean, despite

(09:56):
the fact that you know, theword calls of naivety. Actually also to
be fair, there are a lotof positive praise about just how how good
it is to watch our attacking playbecause it is brave and you know,
and you can see, you know, with the limited resources we've got,
that is our best form because ourattack is still is still the strongest part

(10:20):
of what we have left. Soit makes perfect sense, yeah, of
course, of course, and asother and you know, as others have
written and spoken about since you know, actually one of the benefits of playing
Manchester City is that, unlike Villalast week, they don't pack their eighteen
yard box that first third of thepitch. You know, they don't want

(10:41):
to spend all that time on thefield defending as well, and so as
a result they don't over over personnelthere half of the field and it allows
our attacks, our attacks to bedynamic and to be quick and to into
space and to play forwards, toall the bought towards a moving ball,
and and I think, you know, although it's kind of counterintuitive to say

(11:03):
that in this position personnel and recentform wise, it was a good thing
to go to Manchester City at thatpoint. But they're probably one of only
two or three teams in the leaguethat would have granted us that space,
that space to play into, aren'tthey. Yeah, I mean, you
know, so anyway, we'll getinto the second half. Now, it

(11:24):
did change and we grew into thegame. Why do you think there was
Well, I mean, I thinkhe's probably had, you know, one
of these that they're becoming legendary,aren't they. These? After team talked,
you know, I think he saidafter the game that he said to
them that, you know, allthe responsibility for failure will sit with him,
so that they need to just getwas it. Kulesewski said that he

(11:46):
told them to stop thinking and justplay. Yeah, shapes of you know,
just fucking run about a bit.Yeah, you know, I think
also like a lot of it isprobably just trying to say, look,
a lot of this is in yourhead. Just go and play your game.
I'll take the responsibility for whatever happenshere. You just do your just

(12:07):
go and play and stop overthinking it. And I think that you know that
that clearly made a difference, becauseit you know, it wasn't just the
fact that we brought on Hoiberg forHill, I mean, who did play
pretty well actually, but it wasI think we just yeah, we just
we just we just seemed to sharpenup a bit. Yeah, yeah,

(12:31):
yeah, there was more urgency aboutit. And I guess there's you know,
there's also that well, you're inthe second half of the game.
Now, you're you're you know,if you're staring down the barrel and there's
eighty minutes to play, it's adifferent place to be from the you know,
we're we're we're half an hour awayfrom the final whistle. Now,

(12:52):
you know, if we get ifwe get our noses in front, it's
not beyond the realms of reason thatwe can keep it there for this length
of time as well, So thatthat kind of inspires a bit of confidence
and a bit of like, welllet's have a go now. But yeah,
I mean, I think I think, you know, the combination of
the two things, the slight tweakpossibly the the you know, the words,

(13:13):
the the just you know, goand do it, and and and
again there's this there's this feeling ofwe've come here to impose what sort of
a team we are, rather thanlike the likes of us who are thinking
we've going going up there to avoida good bloody hiding. That's why we're
not elite football. Yeah, we'dhave gone up there and got a good

(13:35):
fucking hiding because of the way thatwe talk about Yeah. Yeah, so,
I mean, yeah, there werethere were there were a few very
very good performances within the context ofthe game as well. You know,
I mean, you know, youthink sort of poro Is is a completely
transformed player. Earlier season they didn'tget everything right, but you know,
you can sort of see that thatthat's sort of playing on the front foot

(13:58):
and being snapped into things and beingaggressive and that and and I think that
is a very real, good,sort of microcosm of how the entire team
approached that second half. Yeah.Absolutely, I got it so wrong on
that person. I thought at thebeginning of the season he just might not
fit this and just system. Buthe's just been one of the players that

(14:18):
have been one of the leading lights. Not only is he technically so good,
but his attitude. He's infectious.It's just you know, he's geeing
up the crowd, he's geeing upthe other players. He's you know,
he's just got such a incredible personalitythat he's also I think important. And
again we probably talked about this,but one of the things that Andrew's also

(14:41):
said, he says, look,so many players os at this level are
all great. He says, whatit comes down to is the person and
the personality, and you know,and and he's just the sort of personality
we need who's you know, he'sgot this never say diattitude and seems really

(15:03):
proud to play for us as welland put you know, to pull on
that shirt. Yeah, And Imean, that's that's the transformative thing,
isn't it. Because I very muchgot the sense that he arrived earlier in
the year, obviously under different management, and then instantly took a look around
and thought, what the fuck haveI walked into? You know, And
there was very much a sort offeeling that we didn't really know what to

(15:24):
do with him. He had amanager that I don't think wanted him,
and I mean he may have comeout and said that he didn't want him
in the way that he did that. My trauma brain has blocked a lot
of content, you know, youknow, but you know, there was
kind of that feeling that like we'dkind of gone through and it was it
had been such a protracted transfer aswell, you know, well they won't

(15:46):
they and would they bring back MarcusEdwards as part of the deal as well,
And then that didn't happen, andsuddenly he was there in a club
that probably didn't really want him,in a position that he wasn't really there
equipped to play under a manager thatdidn't want to be at the fucking club
at the best of times. Andhe personified the entirety of the end of
last season, I think, andnow really kind of really flip that over

(16:11):
and again he's personifying everything that's goodabout the club. Yeah. Absolutely,
So your favorite player then equalizes fromoutside the box. Lovely goal, by
the way player I've always said,so yeah, yeah, someone else said
that. I believe. I'm goingto be honest. I mean, it's
like I said the other day onsocials. If at the end of the

(16:34):
season they're handing glslso a Player ofthe Season award at the club or something
like this, or if he endsup getting the most assists or the most
goals or or anything. You knowthat if he scores the most goals that
bounce off his ass or something likethat, whatever it is, if there's
an accolade for him at the endof the season, there will genuinely be

(16:56):
nobody happier than me, because Ialways thought that he was potentially a really
good signing. When he came in, I became deeply frustrated with him,
and I just thought, I mean, I think my words were the loselso
experiment is fucking over. Just getrid of it, right, and there
will be nobody happier in the worldthan me. To be wrong, I

(17:18):
will say that, And you're notshirlish, Richer, you know I am
wrong. So yeah, you know, he's had a couple of decent getting
scored in the last two games.I hope he scores in the next one
as well. But you know,it's just as well to be honest with
Madison possibly out until February. Butyou know, I think when the fall

(17:41):
team is back, he doesn't getin the side anyway. So I think
I don't think you're you're wrong,Rich It's just that at the moment he
is. You know, I thinkhe's showing more of his qualities that perhaps
this manager is allowing him to dothat, but perhaps the last two or
three managers, which is why wegot this view of him, just you
know, didn't play him the waythat he plays his natural game. So

(18:03):
you know, it's all sorts ofthere's all sorts of you know, reasons
why maybe we've had this this viewon him. But like you said,
like everybody said, la Celsa,when he came in, we thought,
wow, what a play. Itsame as to a worse degree and dumbelly.
You know, we all can seethe bloody talent he's got, but
he's not being able to reproduce it. So you know, there you go.

(18:26):
Yeah, it's strange, but no, I mean I'm happy. I'm
happy that he's doing a job becauseyou know, without his contribution at the
moment, that that would be avery sort of empty of creation part of
the picture. And yeah, youknow it is. It's encouraging to see
and I think, you know,to give him further credit, it is

(18:48):
credit to his professionalism that he Imean, he's been shoved about from pillar
to post. He's been out onamounts of time he's been injured, he's
not got his chances when he's beenfit, and now he's sort of coming
in and he appears to be grabbingit by the scruff of the neck,
and that that that does show alevel of professionalism and integrity that I think

(19:08):
is worth mentioning, especially when youlook at players like and Dombeley, who
is is sort of not doing itanywhere he goes. You know, we're
you know, we're doubtless with thetalent to do whatever he bloody chooses to
do should he do so, Butyeah, very very much. So it
was interesting to note thinking about whenyou say about when the team is fully

(19:33):
fit, where he won't get anywherenear it, that the posta Coglu lets
slip that he would be really lookingforward to seeing Bent and Kerr and Pursuma
and Madison together. Yeah, yeah, and you know, and he kind
of let that slip, didn't heIn a Oh you know, I was
really disappointed because I was really reallyreally looking forward to that, and you

(19:56):
think, oh, okay, yeah, so you know that's a bit of
a sign of how it might lookin the future. It will be interesting
to see if this next few weeksdisrupts that plan. Yeah, yeah,
okay. Then when Grealish makes itthree two, at that point, were
you thinking, okay, this isit game over? No? Actually,
at that point I thought we're boundto get another one. I looked at

(20:18):
the clock and thought, no,I think we'll get another one. Yet
I still didn't think that we weregoing to come away from anything. I'll
be honest with you. When Grealishput that one in, I thought we
were going to end up losing itfor three, not free to Yeah,
okay, because you could just seethat the game was not done yet.
Mmmmm no. But they'd had somany chances that I was thinking, there's

(20:44):
no way we're coming away from thiswith anything. Yet, you know,
that hadn't sort of come on tomy horizon. I was still thinking glory
and defeat here, like we're reallyreally helped well, but but they just
they've missed too many chances. Yeah, yeah, will put one in at
some point, you know. AndI think I think that the way we

(21:06):
played and the way we took increasingcontrol, I think from like about sixty
minutes onwards, I think we justgrew in that confidence. Like you say,
I think it's so you're you know, sort of backs up what you're
you're suggesting here that it didn't feellike the game was over because we were
increasing in our influence and control.We had much more possession than we did
in the first half. We welooked like maybe that, you know,

(21:30):
Andred said we were stopped overthinking it. And then you know, I mean
personally, when that third one wentin, and I think it was like
about the eightieth minute or something likethat or eighty second minute, I thinking,
okay, right, probably we getnothing out of this. But having
said that, it just felt likethe game was still in flux, like

(21:51):
you say, was that there wasstill something more to come. That they're
so clinical. We could have tiedand they could have finished us off.
But as it but we actual shecontinued to control that. And I thought,
even though he sort of went cameand went in phases as he's done
since he's sort of come to theclub, Johnson grew again towards the end,

(22:12):
and that bursting run on the ninetiethminute where he then just sort of
went up one gear and went pastI can't remember which defend it was now,
but then just flipped it in forKoulo Sevsky's header. Oh my god.
I mean, what a header itjust was. That was just brilliant
and at that point, I'm thinking, could we win it? It just

(22:36):
shows them how thicker we are.Yeah, yeah, well it does.
And I mean, you know,it's these these games are some of the
best, though, aren't they.You know we look back up, well,
we all come up to the ManCity games and go, fucking know,
this is going to be painful,you know, Yeah, towards we
look after and we go god alivebecause we always seem to step up and
give them a game frequently, youknow, or if not beat and we

(23:00):
take a point off them, andand and as much as none of us
expected anything like that, this timearound, there were shades of the Kulasewsky
came late goal last not last yearup there the year before, wasn't it
you know, that sort of fuckinghell, we've done it again. I

(23:22):
mean we are. It's crazy.We are their bogie team. And maybe
we should we should keep this inmind more. I mean, maybe if
we had our full team we would, but you know, because it just
felt everything was stacked against us.You know, we're playing a different way
now, we haven't we have notcane in the team and we've got so
much, you know, so manyof our team is depleted. You know
what else is going to happen here? And in reality, this is what

(23:45):
everybody's not just Spurs fans, butwhat everybody got the thought. But yet
there's there just has to be somethinguniversally kind of ordained that that that we
are their bogey club, because nomatter what, we always seem to be
in their heads. And then whenit was three three and you know you

(24:07):
could see Andrew's pump in the air, and then that that I don't know
if you saw that image of aGuardiola fall to the ground and rolling about,
you know, as if it's likeI cannot believe it. Yet again
Spurs do it to us, andyou know how it was delicious. It
is it is, I mean,it's it's it's it is a thing of

(24:30):
beauty. And then of course wehave that other sort of consider everything that's
happened again with us on var wehad the other sort of contentious moment when
towards the very very end, whenit looked like the board had been knocked
over for Grealish to run through,the whistle goes and it's called back.

(24:52):
So I mean all the conspiracy theoristsare out of course, you know,
and but actually, you know,I don't know. I mean, I
I want everyone's saying the ref hada howler there, but I've looked at
it again. It just looks tome like he kind of does blow and
then let's play go. And thenwhen he realizes the balls move too quickly,
that's maybe why he calls it back. And the reaction of Harland and

(25:15):
their team afterwards. I think it'sdisgusting that, in fact they've been They're
up on disciplinary right, aren't they. Yeah, they have been chiged about
it. Yeah. Absolutely, Well, there's two things. I mean,
I think from where the referee is, you know, because he's he's sort
of deeper into our half than whereit happens, He's quite close to the
incident, isn't it. You know. Of course Harland sort of comes away

(25:38):
and pitches and fires it over thetop. Now the narrative goes that Jack
grealishes through on goal, but butthere is this massive Ben Davis shape problem.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, becauseBen Davis is up with him by
the time he receives the ball.And I think, if I remember rightly,
Emerson Royal wasn't too far off aswell, a lot to do he

(26:00):
was. He was halfway through ourhalf. He wasn't one on one on
our goalkeeper. He wasn't enough.And this is Jack Grealish, You're what
you're expecting us to do is suspendall disbelief and pretend that Jack Greeleish is
going to stay on his feet,for instance, of about fifty yards and
finish right when he's got at leastone defender on him and a goalkeeper in

(26:22):
front of him. Now, JackGreeleish is an amazingly talented player, I
know, but I sometimes worry ifhe's got fucking drops either of him at
the amount of time he falls over. You know, So what's actually going
to happen if If here's what happens. If the ref doesn't blow, grealishive
receives the ball, Davis challenges him, Grealish goes down, Manchester City win
a free kick. It is notas simple to say Manchester City have got

(26:45):
a goal scoring opportunity because when youplay the ball into goal there will be
a fucking line of defenders in betweenthe wall and the gold. Because there's
no way Greeleysh is doing that that'sjust not what under on him. He's
going to roll around on the floorand pretend that he's been shot or that
you know that Ben Davis has wrongedhim so so badly that even Greally,

(27:07):
She's mother mother is at home cryinginto her fucking chips like it. But
it doesn't bear any resemblance to realityto think that he's running through and scoring
that now and then then the thenthe man City crowd start chanting, cheat,
Cheat, Cheat. I think theythink irony is he's like Goldie and
Bronze but made of iron. Yeahyeah, well yeah, yeah, well

(27:30):
they think they can buy it,just like they bought all the lot they've
bought everything else. Because I meanthe fact that you know they've got one
hundred and fifteen charges hanging over themover him, you know, it's just
like the you know, the ironythere is ridiculous. Anyway, So I
did see that that there was quitea funny tweet was shared the day after

(27:52):
that the fe was so incense withHarlan's reaction that they've deducted Everton a further
three points. Yeah yeah, Ijust want to cover a couple of players
actually before he finish off this match. Firstly, I was staggered by Mika
richards comments on Vicario. I don'tknow if you caught them, but on
the postmatch thing, you know,he couldn't hide his hide, his you

(28:14):
know, his bitterness. But hewas saying that Vicario is not a very
good keeper. He's he's playing toorisky around the box and actually let his
team down. What, yeah,dame was he watching Vicar? Maker Richards
is a fucking idiot, right,he borrows his brain, sell off one

(28:37):
of the other lads that they leavein the cupboard. This is not a
man that thinks about football. Imean you you know that. You know,
yeah, he's supposed to be thisjovial, wise cracky, like smiling
you know, Alan Alan Shearer isthe miserable one, Ian writes, the
sarcastic one. Gary Linok is theone that took it, that wore his
pants from Actually the day maker Richardsis the smiling, always happy, jovial

(29:02):
what He's a fucking idiot, hesays, And you'll be fine. I
mean to be honestly, I'm notjust saying this. I would rather Vicario
over Edison. I think Vicario hasmore potential. He's a better shot stopper,
he's rapid off his line. Ithink he's such a brilliant keeper,

(29:25):
and it flies in the face ofwhat a lot of other people have said
so far that he's possibly, youknow, one of the best keepers in
the Premier League at the moment,and also one of the best signings you
know, so far. I totallyagree. I think he's done remarkably well
since he's come in, considering he'sonly had a dozen games in the Premier
League all told, to start with, he's playing behind a new defense and

(29:52):
he's currently playing behind a makeshift defense. I think he plays exceptionally well.
I think he stops a lot ofgoal. He stops a lot of shots
that I mean, let's face it, you know, if we go into
that game with Forrester or Larise ingoal, we have lost it. Yeah,
what have you? Because there arethere are times that he's kept out
on Sunday that that any of theothers, even Larise a few years ago,

(30:15):
wouldn't have kept a couple of thoseout. You know, he's an
excellent snap reaction, He's got he'sgot excellent snap reactions. I think he
plays the ball out much much betterthan Larise ever, did I think he
communicates with his back line far betterthan Laris? Ever? Did I think
he's a fabulous goalkeeper? I reallydo. In the way it's Larise gone
to the Bermuda Triangle for a holidayor something. I don't fucking know.

(30:38):
He's probably sat in the club barbefore he drives home. Yeah, yeah,
I mean it's weird, isn't itwhat's happened there. You'd have thought
they'd have just got look, youknow, go home and we'll we'll,
you know, we'll. Maybe he'sgot a shame and it's an ignominious end

(30:59):
for an appbolutely class player that weyou know, he's just he just you
know, he's got to a pointin his career as can happen. It's
just it's not you know, he'snot the same player as he was.
Yeah, it's a strange thing becauseyou wonder what his options were over the
summer, because surely there was somecapacity for him to go somewhere and play
his final. Whether he's just goneno, I just want to sit here

(31:21):
and take the money. Maybe maybe, I mean to be fair, you
know, you could say he's ownedit and he's given us a lot of
a lot of great service. Well, the other thing is, you know,
it might be that something that wedon't know is that maybe his body's
not up to it anymore. Maybe, you know, maybe he's coaching more.
Yeah, yeah, you don't know. You just know, maybe he's

(31:42):
working behind the bar instead of infront of it. I mean, we
we just cleaning the glasses the potboy. Yeah, it's a bit like
that old joke about Pat Jennings cleaningthe executive the windows on the executive box,
isn't it, you know? Butno, I don't know. I
mean, uh, you know,I think he was in a press photograph
recently, wasn't he in everywhere?I lose that bloke there I used to

(32:06):
play. Well, you know,yeah, so is this clearly still in
and around the club. But whoknows. Maybe we'll find out when it
all finishes, when his contract's up. You might say, Look, you
know, I never recovered from thatlast injury. Really, I wasn't fitting,
and so it wouldn't have been rightfor me to have gone anywhere else
because I'd have just let loads ofhowlers in. Yeah. I think it

(32:28):
would go against the grain for theclub just to treat him like crap.
Towards the end. I don't thinkwe would do that. I mean,
in any player that's left, despitehow we think that they've been perceived,
have all come out and said actuallyno, no, actually quite the opposite.
The club have always treated us reallywell. Levy's treated us really well.
Even Stephen Corker recently in an interviewwhere I think he quoted the Daniel

(32:51):
Levy sitting him down and saying,look, you know, the chairman like
Lewis basically once you're gone because ofyour behavior, because drunk, you're being
behad because of everything that's been happening. But we went to offer you one
more year. We believe that youcan. And he said, now I'm
going to go. He said,but and Levy turned around and said,
look, if you do go,you know you the only way is down

(33:14):
from here. Just you know,stay with us. And he said.
Levy was right, and he regretsit. And I think you know,
a lot a lot of players whenwhen they leave do speak still speak highly
the club that they are still heldin high regard. They're not just dealt
with it as you know, trashthat has just been thrown out. There's

(33:35):
always an element of dignity. Tothe way we treat you know, players
and ex managers. So you know, I I think more come out as
we say about Laris, and Idon't think it's just because we've we've been
him, jettison him or made himsort of like you know, the black
sheep. Anyway, Well, Iguess we'll find out in due course.

(33:57):
So maybe one of the only performancesthat I would say that possibly wasn't up
to where we thought it might bewas Besuma. I wouldn't say he had
a terrible game, but I meanone point he did give the ball away
and that's what led to the equalizer. I believe or they or no,
they want their leading goal struggling toremember now, but I just I just

(34:22):
feel that, you know, overall, it wasn't as effective as he as
he might have been. Hopefully that'sgoing to come back. He's had a
fantastic beginning of the season. Justthe last month or so, it just
seems to have I don't know whetherhe's lost a bit of confidence or maybe
because he's been in and out ofthe team. You know that the quality

(34:43):
we saw surely, you know,it doesn't just Vanish. I think that
should come back and hopefully in thenext game we talk about in a minute.
What were your thoughts on Psumer's performanceoverall? Mate, Well, yeah,
I mean I think he was abit underwhelming, you know, in
terms of making making you know,serious mistakes, like you say, I

(35:05):
think it was Foden's goal, wasn'tit He he lost the ball for.
But apart from that, you know, underwhelming I think is the is the
word that best sums it up.But you know, like you say,
since since he was sent off atLuton, you know, he's been out
in and out of the team alittle bit. He's been suspended and then

(35:25):
he's picked up that you know,he's picked up that yellow. I think
it was against Pallace, wasn't it. You know that that there was the
second disruption. He hasn't really hada clear run, and of course every
time he's come back into the side, the players around him are changing,
the formations changing a little bit,the situation and the momentum in the team

(35:46):
has changed a little bit as well. So I think he's a reflection of
that. Really, I think,you know, I want to be fair
to him and say I can't seeany real cause for concern. I think
I think, you know, possibly, if, if, if he can
stay fit and unsuspended for you know, the next we've got you know what,

(36:09):
five games coming up in quite ashort space of time, now that
you know, sometime around about Christmas, we you know, he should have
found his rhythm. I think ifby that point he hasn't, then we
have to start asking whether or not, you know, there's a wider problem,
you know, and what's happened,what happened to him? But certainly

(36:30):
at the moment, I think wecan go a bit easy on him.
It is a shame. I thinkit's I think it's possibly more marked by
the fact that, because of ourwider injury concerns, his lack of contribution
is thrown into greater contrast. Youknow, if he doesn't have Benton Kerr

(36:50):
or Madison or or you know,you know, any of these others around
him doing incredible things that are generatingsuperlatives in the press, then then then
his performance becomes ever more apparent,you know. So I think it's just
a combination of those things. Really, I don't have any concerns. It

(37:13):
would have been nice, how doyou have had a better game on Sunday?
But you know, equally, Iwasn't screaming for him to be hooked.
No, no, no, Iget you. I mean, I've
seen a few comments saying he doesn'tdeserve his place now, that perhaps Hoiberg
should be on. Would you goas far as that for the next game,
Yeah, me, neither. Youknow, I think Hoiburg's come on

(37:35):
and done a decent job. Actually, but I think that's his best role
for us to come on and do, you know, and do a job.
So yeah, i'd still yeah,totally. I mean I do think
that. I do think that,you know, just like I'm having to
be a bit sort of fairer towardslacelso you know, I should give Hoiberg

(37:57):
a bit more credit than I havelatterly, you know. I mean,
I know he's a bugger for lettingthe ball go and for us to con
see, we often can see goalswhen Heiberg's lost the ball in the middle
of the pitch, right, andI'm very very quick to point that out
happens. I also think that hedid remarkably well on Sunday, and I
think he's doing really well as aplayer that's coming on and having a greater

(38:23):
impact and he's actually reminding me alittle bit of something that Ledley King used
to say, which was when peopleused to ask him how he was able
to read the game so well andwhy Ledley King always seemed to know where
he needed to be before he neededto be there, and that was really
the strength in his game. Andhe said, well, the thing about

(38:44):
sitting on the bench is you geta lot of time to watch the game
unfold, and you get a betterunderstanding of how the game is going to
develop. And I wonder if there'sa little bit about this on a weekly
basis from Heiberg that he actually watchesthe game coit probably quite well, and
then when he comes on, heknows exactly what he needs to do,
rather than if he starts the game, you know, he's in the middle

(39:07):
of it and he's trying to workout, you know, which is left
and which is right for the firsthour, which is a little bit unfair,
but you know, yeah, there'ssomething about that about it, because
he does seem to be far moreeffective as a sub. Right. Well,
I think we should get onto thepreviews of the next two games,
because we've got two games in quicksuccession. We got one on Thursday against

(39:28):
the Happy Amas and their cup finalCup final. We've got the greatest player
in the defender in the world back, as according to Leo Messi, Ramera
is back, and I don't knowif Sara is back. I hope he's
back for at least one of thesetwo cup coming upcoming games. And you
know the newcast ones on a Sunday. So yeah, we've got one player

(39:54):
back. Maybe Sara could be back, let's hope. So how do you
think this game is going to playout in the west Ham Cup Final?
I think West Ham loser Cup vinalagain, don't they I hope, So,
I hope. So coming up andgoing toe to toe with man City
and doing so well and then comingback and coming back home. Yeah,

(40:19):
and West Hammer were a bit stuttery. They're not really having the form,
you know. I mean, youknow, I've watched them a couple of
times recently. They're very workman like. They're a little bit blunt up front,
you know, and I think,you know, if we give them
anything, it will be because we'vegiven it to them, you know.
Well, you know, we've gotthis tradition and we have after the Lord

(40:42):
Mayor Show. But I feel andwon't let that happen for this one.
I think hopefully that game against Citywill be the catalyst now for a little
run. I think some of thegames coming up are a bit more favorable
for us, and actually, bitby bit we should start getting some of
our players back. So I I, you know, I feel that we'll

(41:07):
have a right good go at them. I mean, I've seen a lot
of their comments from fans. Sadly, I live in Essex where it is
just rife with West Ham fans andthey aren't happy about the way their team's
playing. They're playing a low block, really defensive style game. I think

(41:28):
we'll have a we'll be right atthem, we'll have the we'll have our
foot on their throats from the offer. I think, yeah, I think
so. I mean, I thinktraditionally this is this is the point,
like you say, after the LordShow, this is the point where we
go in this thinking, well,we've just done that amount City, we
can turn these fuckers over. Theyturn up and stand up and push us

(41:50):
about a bit and we get bulliedinto losing, and I don't think Andre's
going to allow that. I thinkthis is a really really good litmus test
of how the team are doing actuallypossibly in some respects better a litmus test
than a Manchester City game, becausegoing away to the champions in you know,
with a decimated squad kind of lendsitself to siege mentality and for backs

(42:15):
against the wall performances, whereas beingat home against slightly underwhelming west Ham Side.
I mean, yeah, they've they'vethey've played reasonably well sometimes this season.
They've picked up a few good results. You know, they've obviously gone
and won the Johnson's Paint Europe Trophyor whatever it's called. And you know
they are what they are. They'regoing to come and they're going to have

(42:36):
their cup final. But I thinkif we go out there and do what
we what we did at City,you know what we've started to do,
which is very uncharacteristic for us asa club, and start strong, we
we you know, we could bewe could add could if we have our
noses ahead in five or ten minutesthey've added yeah yeah, And if they

(42:57):
come at us, they all leavegaps everywhere. Ironically that their fans will
be singing Champions of Europe. You'llnever sing that forgetting the fact that we've
got two other better European trophies then. But anyway, I mean the beauty
of it is is they they allthey'll be singing it in that sort of

(43:19):
weird Danny Dio esque mock anyway,pricks. Yeah, Yeah, Unfortunately,
I've got you know, a lotof friends because of this area that are
west Ham and they've gone very veryquiet, very very quiet at the moment.
But you know, of course ifthey get a result, sure a
ship that they'll be Yeah, they'llbe at it. So there's a lot

(43:43):
of jeopardy on it for me.I'm really really hoping that we I have
well, one of the places thatI work is a university and and and
it's very sparsely populated with football fans. However, the one that is there,
who is the most vocal of themall is a west Ham fan,

(44:05):
And every time we play them,if they get anything from us, I'll
get an email off him first thingin the morning before I go, and
then I generally tend to find somethingleft in my lab or on my desk
or you know, my car parkpass has got something written on the back
of it or something like that.Yeah, yeah, and you know,
I mean, he's genuinely good naturedabout it, which is all right because

(44:29):
he is about eighteen inches taller thanI am and he works out, so
I don't really you know too much, too much. It's here in a
little box. Yeah, well,anyway, I think, I think.
I think it will be a toughgame. I think because you know,

(44:50):
despite whatever you know is a Londonderby, you know they'll be out for
it. Bowen's a doubt, butyou know he'll make the game, I
think, and out with an injury. But they you know, this is
another one like the Chelsea one.You know, for them, if they
beat us at home, all isforgiven for the rest of the season,
no matter what. So that thatyou know that this is why it's their

(45:15):
Cup final. So it will bea tough game. But I think we
win this three one, four one. I wouldn't be at all surprised if
it was a cricket if it wasa cricket esque score, you know,
yeah, I think. I don'tknow. I mean, you know,
it's the cautious person in me saysit's more likely to be two to one.

(45:38):
But I wouldn't be surprised with threeone if we go If we go
ahead, they'll have to chase us. If they continue to chase us to
try and get something, then Ithink we could score you know, a
good couple of goals on the breakand get even further ahead. I think
if I think if we go twonil up, they just shut up shot

(46:00):
mm hm. And and it's damagelimitation, you know. I mean when
I say it's a tough game,I don't mean scorewise. I think it's
tough because they'll come to kick theshit out of us, like, yeah,
yeah, they're gonna want to.It's one of those games where actually
I'm more worried about who else getsinjured rather yeah. Yeah, And I
think they'll know that, and Ithink they'll know that that that will be
in our minds because we just can'tafford any more injuries. So I think

(46:22):
it'll be a bit of a dirtygame myself. Well it always is,
isn't it. Really, Like yousay, if Boone's not on the pitch,
I think then that's that's a bonusbecause you know, he's the one
that will be sort of gin upand giving it all the you know,
get backing into legs, you know. So yeah, yeah, they are

(46:47):
always a kicky team that they youknow, they'll they'll come through us to
get a ball rather than play theball. I don't know if we if
we're quick enough, we can hold, we can get ahead of them,
we can keep the ball away fromthem. If we get a strong referee,
we should be all right. Yeah, that's going to be the thing.
If we get a week ref thenthere could be a couple of nasty

(47:09):
injuries come from this game. Andat the moment, we don't know.
You just don't know what the refsare going to do, do you,
No, no, exactly. Andit's a later kickoff eight fifteen, so
we better fucking win because that's goingto be a late journey home as well,
and my train going home is goingto be full of West half as
well. So yeah, yeah,no it is. I shan't be at

(47:32):
this one, I you know,as I was saying last night on WhatsApp,
you know seven forty five kickoffs oror a gone one am return home
for me, because it's just youknow that if you can't get out of
the ground until gone ten o'clock,by the time I get out onto the

(47:52):
bloody motorways, they're always down toa single lane and you end up getting
over at three o'clock in the morning, you know, So it's it's a
give it a miss one for me. I'm afraid this time. Well,
which is a shame. I mean, I think this is the way it's
going, isn't it. You know, they clearly don't give a shit about
people who travel to games of football. It's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. Then

(48:15):
we got one. Hot on theheels of that, We've got the Newcastle
game on the Sunday, the tenth, and I'll be going to that as
well. That's I think a fourthirty kickoff, I want to say.
I'm pretty sure he is. WeYeah, that's going to be you know,

(48:35):
we're playing so quickly after that lastgame. I think Newcastle have a
day extra rest. I'm fairly sure. I'm not positive, but yeah,
they're in a bit of a runof form again, I think. So
it's going to be a tough gamethis one. What your thoughts about the
Newcastle game? Mate? I thinkwe're going to beat them, Yeah,

(48:55):
yeah, I do. I thinkwe're going to beat them. I can't
tell you why I think that.I just I just have a feeling.
I think, you know, weneed to we need to exercise a couple
of ghosts of recent painful experiences.I wonder whether or not there's going to
be I think it will be adecent contest. I think it will be

(49:17):
a really good game football like Sundayswas, you know. But again,
you know, the thing about Newcastleis they are aside that will kick you,
you know. I mean, theyget they're getting all these plaudits,
but you know they're they're they're notthe cleanest asides to play. But I

(49:37):
think we'll have enough to turn themover. I think if we got as
long as we come out of thenew the west Ham game with eleven players
that are fit, which again,like we say, is not a foregone
conclusion, but I do think wecould. I think we could turn the
Newcastle over. They're not They're not. They're not as as you know.

(49:58):
I mean they yeah, they're ona bit of run of again, but
they've shown themselves to be a bitmore vulnerable this year. Well that would
be nice, wouldn't it, Becausethen that's seven points for the last three
games. That's that would be anice turnaround for us. And we've got
a nice sort of fixture list comingup after that, so that that would
be good. I'm going to gofor I think you're right. I think

(50:19):
it could be a high scoring game. I think I'm going to go for
three to two to us. Niceyeah, nice yeah. I don't argue
with that. Not going to arguewith that. All right, Well,
there we go. We've we puteveryone in a good mood, hopefully because
we're going to win the next twogames and then we've got nice run to
come. So we're back in theleague. You know, it's as bad

(50:43):
as it sounds. We're six sixpoints off. I think second, if
you know, bearing in mind whateverthe results are coming up, I think
the Goons are five points ahead atthe moment, aren't they. But you
know, they they crapped themselves lastnight. I thought they were so lucky
to get that last gasp winner lastnight to make it four to three.

(51:05):
Luton Town the way they celebrated whenthey basically police us over try and you
know, get excited about beating SheffilUnited that that. You know, Luton
Town are by far the worst teamin the league and they struggled to beat
them last night. I don't thinkthey're as good as people think they are.
Okay, They've they've got the jobdone in the ninety seventh minute.

(51:27):
But I think when they come upagainst some decent teams, and they've not
played very many decent teams recently,I think they're going to struggle. I
think they're gonna I think they're goingto sort of drop back down again.
Yeah, yeah, I think.I think in terms of the narrative of
that side, the fact that theyfailed to win the league last year is

(51:50):
going to cost them in terms ofconfidence in under high pressure situations, you
know. I mean there's a longway to go. Yeah, it's a
shame really that. You know,City have dropped so many points already.
You know, Liverpool have stuted hereand there as well. I mean they
made fucking hard work a beating Fulhamthe other day, so you know it's

(52:10):
another one of them. Well,if wallllet you're gonna win a win a
league, you know, where's thepressure coming from at the moment because they
appear to be getting a lot ofbuys from their competitors. I don't know.
I just hope that somebody drops afucking bomb on the Emirates before too
long. I think I think Liverpoolmight win it this year. You know,

(52:30):
lesser two off the two evils Isuppose, but there you go.
Anyway, let's wrap it up mate, thank you very much for making the
time in your very very busy life, and come on you spurs. You

(52:51):
know there's no place on it Iwould I wouldn't want to be right here.
And you know, in this minuteof trying to bring success to one
of the biggest football clubs in theworld. M hm m, they're basic
underlying principles and yaow on my teamto play football that scares the life out
of every opposition mate. That's that'skind of the end game.