A Journey Through Rock Mental Health & Podcasting ft. Pat Francis

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's a Vongcast show.

(00:10):
Welcome to the Vongcast show.
Today I got a friend.
He's a podcast host of Rock Solid.
Pat Francis, how's it going, man?
Hey, good morning, Vong.
It's good on my end.
Good.
It's good on my end, too.
It's a nice Friday morning.
So your podcast, it's a weekly show about comedy music.

(00:33):
It's pretty cool, man.
Also like the name, Rock Solid.
Thank you.
I have to be honest, I didn't put a lot of thought into the name.
It just comes right out of my mouth.
And that's just stuck.
Right.
That's all good.
I mean, sometimes that's the best.
You know, sometimes you can't overthink it.

(00:55):
We have a mutual friend.
It was a car thief, up to still 50 cars in one night.
Save his brother's life.
That's how I know Pat.
We're doing podcasts now.
You know, that's not true, Vaughn.
I know.
It's from Gone in 60.
Of course not.
It's from Gone in 60.
It's from Gone in 60 seconds, man.
Nicholas Cage.
Nicholas Cage movie with Angelina Jolie.

(01:18):
Yeah.
Was it Angelina?
OK.
Are you a Nicholas Cage fan?
I mean, I don't think he's great all the time, but I do like him, for sure.
Yeah, as a personality and sometimes as an actor.
OK.
I like a handful of movies.
I know he does a lot, a lot of B. B movies.
But I like Lord of War.
Does my favorite.

(01:40):
I like Conair.
I like--
I'm sure there's more movies of him I like.
Yeah.
I like The Rock.
I like the new movie.
Yeah.
And I like it.
And a newer movie that he did, oh, pig.
OK.
I got to check that out.

(02:00):
I got to check that out.
Yeah, it's a good one.
Oh, The Rock was so good.
I remember I was my family.
I rented it on VHS.
I'm Blockbuster.
And I cringed when he got those chemical balls.
And I guys mouth and punched him.
Dude, I was like, oh my god, that's so hardcore.

(02:20):
How old were you when you saw that?
Ah, man, you know, so I would say this is--
I was probably in fourth or fifth grade.
This was before DVD, VHS.
I remember it was a Friday or Saturday night.
Watched my family obviously because it was rated R.
And I didn't watch rated R movies by myself.

(02:41):
And yeah, I was probably like--
Right.
I forget.
It was $98.99.
It was a fun time, Blockbuster.
To a 14-year-old, that would have definitely
been a hardcore film for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
So, man, Rock solid.
Again, very cool title.
So in this episode, I'll be talking about stuff.

(03:02):
I don't know too much about--
OK, Rock music is more like the history.
I grew up liking rock music, but it was the emo wave.
It was in the early 2000s and on.
So I don't know too much about the history.
And I was thinking, hey, man, maybe we
can ask somebody who's a well-versed in rock music in general.

(03:24):
Pat on the show, here we are.
Before we get to that, dude, where did you grow up?
Well, I grew up in a small town in Western Pennsylvania.
It's called Holiday's Burg.
And I know that sounds like a made-up name, but it's true.
Holiday's Burg PA.

(03:44):
Population about 5,500.
And it was literally the cliched small town experience.
There was one barber shop downtown.
And everyone was-- you felt safe.
It was just-- it was like the Andy Griffiths show.

(04:05):
And I know it sounds like I must be 90 years old,
but I grew up in the '70s.
Right.
Right.
That is also the mayor.
Do you have the key to the city, Pat?
I don't have a key to the city.
My dad is so funny.
He actually became-- my dad's 85 right now.
He became mayor when he was 70.

(04:26):
So he wasn't mayor when I was a kid.
OK.
He's just been the mayor for the past 15 years.
And the reason he ran to be mayor is because he said
the current mayor was too old to do it.
Now, at that time, that guy was 82 years old.
My dad's now 85 and doing it.

(04:46):
So I guess by my dad's logic, my dad's
too old to do it right now.
I think it's the youthful spirit.
I think--
That's what it must be.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, dude, that's what it is.
OK.
I'm horrible.
You know us, Californians.
I don't know anything outside of the valley, man.
Well, outside of LA.
How far is that from Philadelphia?

(05:08):
It's the whole way across the state.
Philadelphia is in Eastern Pennsylvania.
And where I lived was Western Pennsylvania.
I'm thinking it'd be a good six hours from Holidays
Berg to Philadelphia.
It was closer to Pittsburgh.

(05:29):
OK.
Are they holidays in in Holidays Berg?
Oh, I'm sure there was a holiday in in Holidays
Berg at some point.
Right, right.
That's awesome.
So small town, that's pretty cool, dude.
I mean, that sounds like a very chill place.
I like that vibe, or I ever know everybody.

(05:50):
And it's like that community type of vibe.
That's pretty awesome.
I grew up in the Philippines in a province of Manila.
It was a pretty small town, too.
So I get that vibe.
Like, what was popular--
was rock music like a big thing when you're growing up?
Like, in your youth?
It was still like already mainstream kind of thing.

(06:13):
And I really--
Well, I mean, I don't even remember when exactly I
started to love music.
I know I can remember the first albums I purchased were.
I know the first concert I went to.
As far as exposure to music, I mean, now the kids get it

(06:33):
on TikTok or YouTube or anywhere like that, streaming it.
So they have access to millions and millions of songs
and artists.
We had one radio station that we listened to.
It was out of outtuna, Pennsylvania.
It was called WFBG.
It was WFBG, the rock of outtuna is how they promoted it.

(06:59):
And that's what we had.
It was just-- it was whatever the top hits were of the day.
It was definitely top 40 radio.
And sometimes rock music would sneak in there.
And that's what I heard.
And that's what I gravitated towards.
And so when I first started to buy albums,
I believe Eagol's greatest hits--
Or maybe Fleetwood Mac rumors, or maybe Bob Seeger

(07:23):
in the Silver Bullet Band Stranger in town.
These were probably my first rock albums that were--
probably asked for them for Christmas or maybe saved up
some lunch money and purchased one.
And then that was it.
I was all in on music.
I mean, I would get in trouble when I would buy albums.

(07:46):
And I never understood that.
My parents would go, you're spending all your money
on these albums.
And I wasn't drinking in high school.
I wasn't doing any substances.
This was my one-- that was my vice-- was buying albums.
And once I was old enough to have my own job,
I had a paper out.
And then again, that sounds like old-timey.

(08:08):
No!
But I had a paper out.
And then after that, I worked at McDonald's.
And I started to have to sneak albums into my house.
Like you would sneak pot or something into your house.
But I did.
Yeah.
And so I never quite understood why that was a bad thing.

(08:30):
Because for me, music's always a good thing.
Yeah.
OK.
The paper route thing doesn't sound too far afresh.
I mean, when I was growing up, that was like the thing.
I mean, there was a video game on a tentacle paper
paper board or something.
So that was very normalized.
That was like the American growing up job.
Oh, like, yeah, when I was a kid, I was doing paper route.

(08:51):
And people were like, that was like the job for,
like, adolescent teenagers.
That was the thing.
Yeah.
The sneaking albums thing wasn't for me,
but I was not able to get music with the parental advisory
sticker on it.
Yeah, see, my-- it's so funny.

(09:13):
I don't know if my parents really cared too much about that.
Or maybe that happened after I was late teens.
I forget when that was.
That was in the '80s sometime.
But I just remember there was a Billy Joel song called
Only the Good Die Young.
And everyone in our area was up in arms because he was singing

(09:34):
about a Catholic girl that he was trying to get with,
or trying to bring her over to the other side of the tracks.
And my mom just thought that was blasphemous.
And now my mom doesn't even go to church.
Interesting.
Now, is that like was it blasphemous that they mentioned?

(09:56):
Catholics?
Or was it like a--
I think maybe it was on local radio
was talked about as being the song that you shouldn't listen to
or the song.
You know what I mean?
And so, hey, I immediately bought that album.
Got it.
That makes sense.
Interesting.
Billy Joel.

(10:18):
Yeah, I don't know too much of his songs.
Yeah.
But I've heard the name.
Oh, it's such a zero.
It's such a harmless song.
He says, I think the big line is, come out, Virginia.
Don't let me wait.
You Catholic girls start much too late.
Oh, I can see you.
I'd rather die with the sinners than live with the saints.

(10:41):
But I mean, that's so mild, Vaughan.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I like the--
it sounds kind of catchy, you know?
It is catchy.
It's a great song.
You Catholic girls wait too late.
I can mean a lot of things.
Yeah.
Yeah, right, right.
OK, that's pretty cool.
But the sinners and the saints get the pun on words with the religion, with Catholicism
in particular.
I went to Catholic grade school.

(11:03):
OK.
You know, first through eighth.
So yeah, it was the thing that would be brought up.
You don't have that album, do you?
No.
No, but I went to Catholic school from fifth grade--
No, sixth grade to eighth grade.
I was born and raised Catholic.
I get it.
I get it, man.
I remember doing a communion.

(11:24):
I remember being an ultra boy.
I remember almost dropping the cross.
It was really-- they're really heavy.
The one I went to church, first church, I did the ultra thing at.
The wooden cross was way too heavy.
I mean, it was wooden.
I almost dropped it, dude.
Yeah, ours was metal, and it was really heavy.

(11:46):
If I could get out of not being the person to carry it, because it was heavy.
Yeah, I don't know how they expected us to--
It's a cross for growing a doll's size.
It's the fucking-- yeah.
It's huge, bro.
What?
I don't know.
And I would always get anxious, because there are certain things to do.
When they say the certain word of the Lord, that kind of stuff, you have to do a certain thing.

(12:10):
And my first three times, I'm like, am I supposed to stand up, sit down, and just give them
the book.
You know?
Yeah, you had to ring a bell sometimes.
It's a lot of stuff for a kid.
I hated it because I couldn't watch Saturday or Sunday morning cartoons.
And that was a time-- I remember when there was no Netflix, you couldn't just watch it later.

(12:30):
You missed it out.
No.
Nope.
If you missed it, you missed it.
Yeah, wait till next week or wait till your friends talk about it Monday.
Yep.
All right, so first concert, I recall we had a discussion before.
It was Kiss, am I correct?
Yeah.
Kiss.
I know the date, July 21st, 1979.

(12:52):
It was Kiss at the Pittsburgh Civic Arena.
Now, Civic Arena in Pittsburgh was about two hours away from my house.
So they would run-- there was like a local bus line.
I think it was called blue and white.
And they would run bus tours.
So you would buy-- you would get your concert ticket and your bus ticket all together in

(13:15):
a package.
And then your parents would drop you off at the mall in Altoona, which was about five miles
away from our house.
And you would get on the bus and they would take you from the mall right to the arena in
Pittsburgh.
And then the bus waited there till the end of the concert and you came out, got on the
bus and it brought you right back to Altoona, Pennsylvania.

(13:38):
But that was a big deal.
I was 15, but I didn't have my license to drive.
And I had never been to a concert.
I had never been to Pittsburgh.
And so even though my parents didn't like me buying albums for some reason, they were okay
with this.
Interesting.

(13:59):
Yeah, it is interesting.
That's really interesting.
I would think it's the other way around.
Okay, you can enjoy this experience in our home, but you can't go out at what time did
you get home, do you remember?
Oh, man, I bet I didn't get home till like 12, 30 or maybe one in the morning by the time

(14:24):
the concert ended and we took the bus ride back.
But it was in the summer.
So maybe that had something to do with it.
And in '79, I'm sure I had a job in '79.
So I'm sure I paid for it myself.
They weren't paying for it.
They might have said, hey, if you can get a friend to go with you, then you can go.
Maybe that was the only criteria.

(14:44):
So.
Who did you go with?
I went with my friend.
His real name is Scott, Scott Holbreder, but everyone called him Bump.
It was all Bump because he was the oldest of two kids and his parents would always call,

(15:04):
when the mom was pregnant, they would call him Bump because it was the baby bump.
So when he was born, they could even his parents call him Bump.
So everyone called him Bump, Holbreder.
That's a pretty cool name.
Hey, for Holbreder.
He's my friend of this day.
He's an English professor.
That's awesome.
Shout out to the Bump.

(15:26):
Fist bump.
Hey, for Halloween, was he a goose bumps?
I don't know if goose bumps came after my time period or not.
There's some stuff that people were into that just isn't on my radar.
Mario Kart or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
There's some things that just aren't on my radar.

(15:46):
That's all good.
At least you understand the reference.
You know, goose bumps.
I do.
I do try to keep in touch with references for sure.
I mean, I don't want to seem old.
No, you get hang with us.
You're cool, bro.
You're cool.
Thank you, man.
All right.
So back to the religious thing.
Was that like a, was, was kiss frowned upon because I don't know the music, but they came off

(16:12):
a bit different almost that they were like, I don't know.
Bushing the devil type vibe.
Was that accurate?
There wasn't, there was not a devil type vibe in the music or in what they did, but you
know, religions like to create something out of nothing.
So I believe at one point that they thought that kiss stood for kids in Satan's service

(16:39):
or nights in Satan's service.
I don't think my parents all fell into that.
Okay.
But they did think my mom would always say, oh, that crazy kiss.
You're listening to that goddamn, my mom would say goddamn.
Yeah.
That's not a, don't say the Lord's name in vain.
This is embedded in me, bro.
Like, I know.
Yeah.

(16:59):
Because I had a massive kiss poster on my wall.
It was the biggest poster I had ever seen at that point.
It was gigantic.
And, you know, and they're just, they're just posing in their stupid costumes.
They weren't, you know, they weren't biting the heads off of a cat or, you know, anything

(17:20):
like that.
It was just them in their costumes.
But sometimes that was enough to, you know, cause people to think they weren't what
they were.
They were something different than what they were.
Did they start the whole sticker tongue out thing?
I mean, I mean, that was Gene Simmons thing, you know, on stage he would breathe fire and
he would, you know, he would, he would, he would spit up blood.

(17:43):
I get, he would put blood capsules in his mouth and, and spit up blood and, it's just
put the show.
It's really, it's literally, it's just the show.
It's all show.
Okay.
I didn't know he did the spit and blood.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah.
It was cool.
It was cool.
Breathing fire was at the pilot tech next, or he just did that whole thing where he would
swallow something and spit fire.

(18:04):
Yeah.
He would bring out a torch and blow fire like they would have a circus.
Okay.
That sounds pretty fun though.
I sound like, you know, 15 year old, you listen, you see, oh, that's so cool.
I would, you know, oh my God.
Yeah.
15 year old Pat.
I thought that was the greatest thing ever.
My first concert was Celine Dion.
I wasn't.

(18:25):
I went with my ex step mom.
It was in the Bay Area and it was cool, bro.
I was vibing in people, you know, the moms were digging in and I was pretty cool.
You know, seeing, you know, Celine Dion, I was pretty fire.
But she's a legend.
Oh hell yeah.
Definitely.
Okay.
So the rock music thing like pretty much, okay, condensed version.

(18:50):
It started in the 1950s.
Is that accurate?
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people credit Elvis, but I credit little Richard.
He predates Elvis.
I mean, I think a lot of people stole from little Richard and, you know, even Mick Jagger.
I mean, you know, that's a guy that just doesn't get enough credit.

(19:13):
I think he gets credit in rock circles, but, you know, Elvis was white.
So he gets the credit, you know what I mean?
Don't give the credit to Chuck Berry and little Richard.
Right.
You know, I think musicians of the day, they knew where the rock and roll was coming from.
Right.

(19:34):
That's what I've heard as well, you know, 100% I agree with that.
And then there was just like movement in the UK, like, I can't even bow with this stuff,
dude.
Who was first bro?
Sex pissing?
Like, are Beatles.
Well, the Beatles were in the 60s.
The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Who, the Kings, then Led Zeppelin, you know, and then

(19:56):
the punk movement with, you know, sex pistols and clash.
That came in the 70s.
Yeah, like when I think of the history of rock and roll, and this is just my own, right,
right.
Just out of my head.
I feel like it started with Southern Blues music and the kids in the UK gravitated
to that music that was born in the US.

(20:18):
And then they formed bands in the UK and then the kids in the US gravitated to the Beatles,
the Stones, the Who, the Kings, Led Zeppelin and then they started bands here.
So I, it kind of like jumped, you know, over the ocean to the UK and then back from the UK
to us.
And then, you know, right.

(20:38):
But it's totally, it's totally an American in the UK vibe for me, rock and roll music.
Right.
What was that?
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Was Beatles considered rock music at that time?
Was that?
It was considered rock music.
And I mean, compared to the Stones or the Who, I consider the Beatles more of a pop band.

(21:04):
Because I always say you can put the Beatles on and the whole family can listen to the Beatles.
You could, I played Beatles in the car when the kids were little.
I didn't even think twice about it.
But there are some lyrics and some themes in the Rolling Stones music and maybe in the Who
and Led Zeppelin that that might not be for the kids ears.

(21:25):
When they're little, little.
Right.
But the Beatles, you can play that for a baby.
Yeah.
So I always felt that the Beatles were more of a pop band and a rock band.
That's what I kind of gathered to.
I mean, back then, it was probably like, you know, rock.
But listening to now, it's pretty mellow, you know.
It is.
It doesn't make them any less influential.

(21:46):
100%.
100%.
I mean, I remember I listened to a podcast on the person who about the person who shot online
in John Lennon.
And it just fucked up the whole world, you know, like, yeah, it did.
It really did.
It's wild, man.
How that whole thing and it was weird because I heard that John Lennon like told them, like

(22:09):
told interview people in general.
Oh, yeah.
I can see myself getting assassinated.
Yeah, that that like, I don't know if it was ego or just, you know, but he saw him.
He said, probably like, yeah, I can see myself being assassinated and it sucks it.
Yeah, he had a foreshadowing, which is very strange.
Yeah.
Um, the, yeah, I remember where I was when I, when I heard it, we, um, my brother must have

(22:33):
been home from college.
And we used to have bunk beds, but then after my brother went to college, I got like a
big bed to myself.
But when he would come home, we would sleep in the same bed.
Yeah.
And I remember, I think we were watching, because I had a black and white TV in my room, because
I bought it with my own money, with my paper route money.
Nice.
And, um, so it was a, I always had a TV in my room as a kid and it just came on the news.

(23:01):
You know, it was, it was late at night, I believe, when I, when I heard about it.
Um, I don't know if it happened late at night, but it was late at night when I heard about
it.
And I wasn't, I wasn't into the Beatles in high school.
I wasn't into John Lennon, cello music in high school.
That didn't come to a way later that I discovered the Beatles music.
But I remember kids in school were crying and the next day and it was like, and I didn't

(23:26):
quite know how to process that.
I had never seen anyone get that upset about anyone, you know, in the media passing away.
So kind of a thing.
Yeah.
Definitely.
I mean, I, he was worldwide and everything.
I totally get that, you know.
Um, so that was a 60s and a 70s rolled around like how, how do you, from your experience or

(23:50):
from what you remember, like what, how was the music changing rock and roll from the 60s
to 70s?
Um, was it like a different sounds?
That's a good question.
I mean, you know, definitely changing.
I mean, more bands are coming out.
There's more music happening.
Um, Jimmy Hendrix in the 70s.

(24:13):
I feel like 70s radio.
We had a lot of, of the one hit wonders, you know what I mean?
Or, or artists that came out that had like one or two big hits and then would kind of
disappear.
Right.
You know, like if you looked at the charts in the 70s, there's a lot of, a lot of one hit
wonders.

(24:33):
But that's when I started to get more, and that's when I started to get into music with bands
like, I mean, my favorite band still is cheap trick and you know, bands like Aerosmith and
Van Halen and all, all this type of rock music was coming out.
It wasn't, it wasn't heavy metal.
It was more based in, in rock.

(24:53):
And then later I would get into, I would start to get into stuff that would be considered
more heavy metal.
You know, cheap trick and all that, it was more getting heavier essentially that accurate.
Yeah, it was starting, it was starting to, you know, it was a, I don't remember the term
heavy metal being thrown about a lot.
And I didn't listen to like black Sabbath and stuff like that.

(25:16):
It was, it was all stuff that had melody, you know, that I could, that had a, you know,
had a groove and a guitar solo and a verse chorus, verse, you know, that I could sing along
to and lyrics that I could gravitate to, I always gravitate towards lyrics.
You know, I like to sing along, I like to read the lyrics in the album when I was a kid and

(25:38):
try to figure out what they were singing about.
Sometimes it was obvious.
Sometimes you had to go like, what does that song mean?
You know, so I always loved doing that.
And then, you know, I, I was in high school in the 80s and that's when MTV came out.
And that was the biggest deal.

(26:00):
MTV Vaughn was the biggest thing because you got to see everyone.
And it was, it was so eclectic.
You'd have Madonna and Prince and then Bruce Springsteen and then you too and then Judas
Priest and there was, there was no format really.
It was just like one thing would go into the other, you know, you would, you would see Madonna

(26:24):
and then you would see Iron Maiden and you're just like, your mind was blown because you were
hearing the music and then seeing the artist like you never saw the artist unless you picked
up a music magazine and you saw a picture.
But you never saw the move and groove and ensign and you know what I mean?
Yeah.
So MTV was such a huge part of my life in high school.

(26:48):
And then by the time you maybe knew of MTV, it was something completely different.
But when I was in high school, it was just music videos 24 hours a day.
Oh.
Oh, okay.
So there was no shows.
Yeah, it was just music shows.
No shows.
There were no shows.
And if there was a show, it would be someone hosting like, oh, this hour is going to be all

(27:15):
punk videos.
Right.
The show was still videos and they might interview, you know, a member of the Ramones or something.
But it was all videos.
There were no, there was no original programming.
There was no Jersey Shore or anything like that.
It was just like a radio station with images.

(27:36):
What was the first music video you recall watching?
We're like, holy shit, this is so cool.
Man.
It is.
Oh.
One of the earliest ones, let's say.
Well, I know one of the earliest ones was a, was I believe Pat Benatar, you better run.
And you know, when you're a teenager and you see a woman who was easy on the eyes and

(28:02):
she's rocking out with attitude, you're like, all right.
Now this, this is something I can get behind on many different levels.
Yeah.
So.
Mine's okay.
And then so again, I'm going back and forth with this like, what's stock was like big, obviously,
like, did you like, did you ever attend any of them?

(28:25):
No, I mean, what stock was in the 60s?
Oh shit.
Okay.
I poor.
But then what stock came back in the 90s, but what's I'm not a fast, I'm not a festival person.
It's, it's, you're there all day.
It's uncomfortable.
By the time, by the time the headliners come on, people are inebriated beyond capacity.

(28:49):
Yeah.
And it's just not a, for me, it's not a great concert experience.
I like an indoor venue.
I like seats.
If I want to stand, I'll stand, but if I want to sit, I'm going to sit.
You know, it's just, you know, I like people, but I don't want to deal with thousands of
people and half of those people are unruly.

(29:11):
Right.
I can see that.
I used to like going to festivals.
I've never been to Coachella, but I've attended, you know, work tour, which is fun.
Those are fun.
I've attended like EDM shows back in the day.
They were cool.
Obviously, I was like rolling.
I was on, I was on the mall, I'm the M.A. or whatever.
Towards the end of it, it just, I've noticed like in my mid to like my late 20s, I've

(29:38):
started not liking it as much because a lot of people were there.
Maybe it was a drug, but I get like very anxious.
You know, there's a bunch of people dancing really close to me.
I've been to this couple where it's like, you almost getting trampled almost because like,
people are hopping offends to see this one person and it's just a lot of chaos.

(29:58):
And I think towards the end, I'm like, well, this is a lot.
I remember like waiting, you know, I remember just, you know, trying to find people, your
group because everyone's kind of scattered throughout the night.
Try to like use your cell phone, but you couldn't because everyone's using their cell phone
and their cell towers jam.

(30:19):
So it was just whole like, oh man, we got to find this person.
We got to meet him at this place kind of thing.
And I think it was fun, but I get what you're saying, the unruly part.
You know, it's just, I got paranoid towards the end.
I stopped going at the end.
You know, it's like, this is too much, but it's fun though.
I'm not going to lie.
It's a cool experience, but I get that, you know, I wouldn't go these days just because

(30:42):
I'm clean now and I don't want to be around as much as I love music.
I don't want to be around that, you know?
It only takes one person to ruin your concert experience.
I would see Iron Maiden, I believe it was last October, October 2022.
My nephew flew out from Brooklyn and we went, I believe it was an Anaheim.

(31:07):
We drove down to Anaheim because we love Iron Maiden.
And the guys behind us, I've been to see Iron Maiden many times, the crowd's really cool.
You know, the crowd's really cool to really into the music.
But the guys behind us were really drunk.
They were physically menacing, not because of tattoos or anything, but they were built.

(31:36):
Yeah.
They were big guys.
They were in shape and they're drunk.
And so this is the row behind us.
And at the end of the row behind us, it's another kid and his girlfriend.
And you could tell they were on a date and they both like the music.
And then these four guys are the next four guys next to them.

(31:58):
And these four guys got more hammered and more hammered.
And they were eventually now taking over the row and they were edging this poor kid and
his girlfriend into the aisle.
And it's just a bullying factor that really, really bothered me.
But yet you could tell, I wanted to say something.

(32:21):
I wanted to say, hey guys, why don't you move down?
I just want these kids enjoy the show.
But these guys, I just got a sense that if you said that, they will not afraid to just knock
you out.
Right.
100%.
And, and you know, after the show, I was mad at myself, not that I didn't say something

(32:43):
to them, but that I didn't go and get security because that's what security is there for.
That's their job.
That because these two kids were, they were teens and you could tell they were scared at
ruined the show for them.
And they didn't have enough thought or maturity to go get someone and go, hey, these guys

(33:05):
are literally pushing us into the row and taking over the whole row.
Yeah.
And when I think back on things like that, it kind of bums me out that I didn't like do
something.
I don't blame you.
I know you just don't do it.
But, come on, man, like four guys against one or two.
I know.
But it kind of makes sense.
Yeah, it tainted the show for me a little bit too because I'd be watching the show and then

(33:28):
I would turn around and give and look at it side of my eye and these guys are just being
assholes.
Right.
And at one point, the guy leaned over between me and my nephew and he's doing the devil
horns and he turns to me and he's saying, you got a fucking rock.
You got a rock, you know what I mean?

(33:49):
He's like, I'm like, I'm, you know, hey, I'm, you know, I'm rocking, you know, and I just, I
just kept my, my gaze straight at the stage.
I didn't even acknowledge him because I'm like, what, what this guy's out of control?
Yeah.
And you can't deal with out of control.
So that's why at a festival when there's a lot of people out of control, it's, it can

(34:14):
not be fun.
Yeah.
It's not fun.
I've been to like, not a lot of rock shows, but the work tours are pretty chill.
People are just drinking nothing too crazy.
Right.
EDM shows, everyone's on X to C, which is kind of cool because they're not like aggressive.
Everyone's so peaceful and nice.
But I do remember going to hard summer in 2008 in the form, England would form.

(34:36):
What happened was the show, hard summer, they sold too many tickets.
So it was a fire hazard.
It was fire marshals came in and okay, you haven't done it.
I know you haven't, but like imagine like you're having a good time.
You're rolling good vibes.
The SWAT team comes in.

(34:57):
They start to get out like that ruined it for everybody.
Absolutely.
They had like tear gas and like they, you know, dude, and it wasn't our fault.
It was because like this venue sold too many tickets and they kind of, yeah, it kind of
ruined it for everybody.
But I totally get it, dude.

(35:19):
Now, you know, towards the end of it, I'm like, okay, I like smaller venues, more intimate
venues.
I never got into the mosh pits.
I was not that like guy.
I like the music.
I've crowdsurfed a couple times.
But yeah, that's all I get that.
And I would, that would ruin my experience too, you know.
And now concert tickets are too much money now to have a handful of people ruin it for

(35:45):
you.
Oh, yeah.
There's been a lot of, yeah, it's so much now, man.
Like work tour or an Iowan, it was like 30 to like 45 bucks the whole day you can see
whoever you wanted.
Now, you know, shows are ridiculously expensive unless it's like a local band or something.
Yeah.
I mean, because of my podcast, which is a music podcast and I've interviewed, you know, a lot

(36:09):
of, you know, rock stars from my era that are still touring.
I am fortunate enough that I can, I can call those PR people when they come to town and
ask to be put on the guest list or ask to get a couple of tickets.
And so I don't really pay for shows that much, you know, the artists that I want to see.

(36:31):
And so that's a good, that's a good perk.
Work of my show for sure.
Right.
100%.
I mean, I was the VIP stages a lot more chill, the section is less people.
I remember I had a VIP passes to one of the EDM shows and it was nice.
I wasn't around.
I wasn't very claustrophobic towards the end.
I got very claustrophobic, you know, just especially for under the influence or just in

(36:55):
general, it's a bunch of people, no, no personal space and having that little bubble of space
is pretty nice.
Yeah, absolutely it is for sure.
Yeah.
All right.
So talking about MTV, this is the 80s.
Like, but what is the, okay, let's go to MTV.

(37:16):
That was MTV.
That was super cool.
Like, sorry, but there's different genres and everything playing.
Who was like, I don't know how to say it, but who was like the, the rock band that you
were like really digging in the 80s?
I would do like any top five or anything.

(37:38):
The 80s, I was probably getting into Springsteen, Bruce Springsteen and I mean, that would
probably be, you know, just off the top of my head, Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, John

(37:59):
Melon Camp, who was John Cougar at that point.
And then, but I was still listening to you know, Jeep Trick and Aerosmith and ACDC.
So yeah, it's probably getting into ACDC in the 80s with the back and black album.
Yeah, and but with MTV, like I said, then you would be introduced to Cindy Lopper and

(38:24):
Madonna and Queen and Prince.
I mean, I would have never heard Prince on my local radio station.
I just wouldn't have.
I would have never seen a David Bowie video or heard that on my local radio station unless
it was a big, big hit.

(38:44):
So to see those artists, you know, you know, it was eye opening.
Right.
Right.
Okay.
This is around the time when I kind of knew what MTV talked or you know, rock for me in
general, talked to me about like Nirvana Kurt Cobain, like was that like a super huge when

(39:04):
you know, they came out.
Well, yeah, when Nirvana came out and then we had, you know, then you got Pearl Jam and
Alice and Chains and Stone Temple Pilots and who are the other big grunge bands from from

(39:24):
Seattle.
The problem was they called that music grunge when it was just rock and roll.
It was just it was just it was still rock and roll.
And the problem for me was when that music came in and they labeled it as grunge, all the
radio stations were like, oh, this is the new thing.

(39:46):
So all the bands I like kind of got edged off the radio in favor of grunge, grunge, grunge
all the time when really they could have lived on the radio side by side.
Yeah.
Like on MTV, like I said, you'd see Madonna and then you'd see a prince and then you'd see

(40:09):
you too.
All the music lived side by side.
But when grunge came in, I feel like the radio stations kind of killed the rock and roll
I like for a while.
My bands were still around.
They still made music.
But getting on the radio was a little harder because they just wanted they wanted that new

(40:30):
Seattle sound and which I was not really into.
And I might have not been into it because it felt like it was pushing my rock and roll
out of the way.
I mean, I mean, yeah.
And I feel like the radio stations again had the influence.
So they would have just said, here's a great new rock band out of Seattle and Nirvana.

(40:54):
I would have been like, woohoo.
But it was like the radio format just changed like overnight and you were like, what the
fuck?
Yeah.
Now, I think maybe because we like to name names, you know, there's like the heavy metal,
you know, like punk and was grunge like, okay, outside of the bands, the sound was it the

(41:19):
same and were they like playing the same stuff?
Was it the same music?
Was it more mellow or was there even a difference in like the sound of them compared to the other
bands?
I mean, there probably really wasn't.
I mean, maybe the lyrics were a little bit more depressed.
Maybe, you know what I mean, but maybe they were also singing about stuff that was more

(41:42):
real than just walk this way or talk dirty to me or you know what I mean?
Maybe their lyrics, their lyrics were probably a little more raw.
Uh-huh.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But I find what I find really wild about the grunge era is how so many of the lead vocalists

(42:11):
not only pass, but took their own lives, you know, Kurt Cobain from Nirvana and Lane Staley
from Alice and Chains and Chris Cornell from Soundgarden.
Um, uh, who's the guy from Stone Temple Pilots?
I'm drawn to blank on his name, but these guys, I mean, these guys chose not to be here, you

(42:34):
know what I mean?
Right.
Was that a part of that?
I mean, the music didn't make them do that, but I'm like, I feel like those guys needed,
needed help outside of music, you know what I mean?
Right.
Was it a mental problem?
Aside from like, was it worth a lot of them linked with overdosing?
Cause I know that's, you know, okay, I don't know too much about grunge when I think of grunge,

(43:00):
I think of like Seattle.
Yeah.
Uh, plaid shirts oversized, like very like, I would call emo, but like that kind of vibe.
And you know, maybe some heroin.
I don't know.
That's just, again, that's a very j-
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, I'm sure.
I'm sure there was, I mean, I'm sure there were, there were heavy drugs, but um, it's

(43:22):
just, um, it's just interesting.
It's interesting to me.
It's like, is it coincidence that all these singers from these bands, you know, were addicted
and took their own lives, you know, and somewhere, another way that was by drugs or a, a,
cocaine shot himself.
Um, just, um, like the music wasn't light.

(43:45):
So when you listen, when you listen to music that's dark 24/7, or you, that's what you're
writing, or that's what you're performing, how much does that, um, you know, I'm like,
that play on your psyche, you know what I mean?
Correct.
And also, I think too that, you know, let's say you make music that's more, you know, vulnerable
and, you know, I guess talking about depression, all this stuff.

(44:06):
And people really, uh, magnet are very like, uh, drawn to it.
You know, I have to make this more, I have to make this music more often.
And maybe in their head, they're like, whoa, I have to beat, to make this music.
I have to be in a certain state.
I don't know.
I'm guessing as like, you know, musician as well, you know, like, I wonder if that's a thing

(44:26):
to where it's like, oh, I had to like, to make this, I like, let's say they made one song
and it was great.
Oh, I made this song because, you know, I was going through a rough patch, but they liked
this music.
So do I, does that mean I have to always be in this certain mindset?
Uh, yeah.
And I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I'm not saying that music made them do this.

(44:47):
No, I'm just wondering what the correlation is or what, what these guys were all going through.
Um, and it could have been all different things that, that, that, and these guys, all the
guys I named, there's a guy named Shannon Hoon, also from Blind Melon, all these guys I
named were all, I believe, um, parents.

(45:08):
And that's really, because I'm a parent and that really, that really bothers me when,
when someone that's a parent, uh, removes themself from the planet.
Right.
It's just, it, I get angry because it feels selfish to me.

(45:28):
Yeah, right.
And being a parent is the self, most selfless thing you can be.
And so I just, um, it kind of, it kind of makes me, I don't know if it makes me angry.
It's upsetting.
Yes.
Yeah.
Oh, Kurt Cobain's daughter is only going to know what she reads or what her mom tells her.

(45:50):
She's not really, because she was young.
She's not going to know her dad, you know, the way my kids know me or other kids know their
dad.
And um, yeah.
And look, maybe he would have been a good shitty dad.
Right.
We never know.
You never know.
Never know.
You never know.
You've been everyone the benefit of the doubt.

(46:11):
Yeah.
You know, that makes sense.
I've never seen it from that point of view.
I'm not a parent.
But yeah, no, 100% it's like you leave behind, you know, your, your kids and they have to almost
like pick up the pieces with, you know, family kind of thing.
And because, you know, definitely it's a thing for mental health issues.
I feel what's one thing I like about this generation and my, you know, is that men or in

(46:36):
general, there's more mental health services available.
Yeah.
I can imagine back then again, again, too, like, you know, being a musician, it's part of
like you kind of have to like have an ego somewhat.
But sometimes, you know, if you're, you know, famous and you're young, I mean, Kurt Cobain
was like, what in his mid 20s?
You know, I was barely good.
I was, I was not in the best mindset when I was in my mid 20s.

(47:00):
I can't imagine on top of, you know, the fame and everything, you know, all that stuff.
So again, what I like about this generation is we focus a lot on mental health.
You know, I, I wonder what it would be like if that, this, this, um, emphasis on mental health
now was applied back then.
If that was more, I, I wonder how many, you know, then we'll still be around, you know?

(47:22):
Well, even, um, I think people check in with each other more.
I mean, even, even where, where we work, Vaughn, even how we know each other at our day
job, you can sense when someone's not having a great day.
Yeah.
You can see it in their eyes.
And so, I mean, I like to make a point to, uh, you know, to go up and say, Hey, you okay

(47:44):
today?
What's going on?
I mean, I've been at work where I can see someone's not doing well.
And I would, I said, you should just go home and they did.
Yeah.
No, you don't have to be here today.
We got to cover it.
There's enough people here.
Yeah.
100%.
It's cool.
Don't take care of yourself.
Yeah.

(48:04):
I think that's number one, you know, take care of yourself, you know, get help and whatnot.
For me in general, I feel like maybe at work, I'm not as like, hmm, how do I say this?
You're very like open and receiving, you know, you know, a lot of people.
To me, it's more like, I don't sometimes I don't feel comfortable like, Hey, are you okay?
Because I don't know them that well.
That makes sense.
Like, not saying that it's not a good thing, but like, maybe they'd feel like, what, why

(48:27):
is that asking me if I'm okay?
You know, I think, yeah, I think our, our personalz are different.
You're very like, welcome here and talk to you, and if you're more, I'm more reserved.
But yeah, I think if someone's definitely going through it, I mean, some people, I know,
some people I'm comfortable with.
If I see them having a bad day, I like to talk to them.
But for other people, it's like, you know, maybe I'm not the one to do that.

(48:51):
I think sometimes, Vaughn, I put my dad hat on at work.
You know, I'm, I have an 18 year old and I have a 22 year old and I'm 24 years older than
you.
So I'm not saying that I have 24 more years of knowledge or anything like that.
We're probably equally intelligent.

(49:12):
I don't know how much, I don't know how much more I've learned.
But I get your say.
But so, but when I see someone that I feel is in distress or maybe needs to just have
a laugh or something, I have always been comfortable with just going up and not feeling like I'm getting
in their business.

(49:34):
I don't know.
I mean, look, maybe I'm not doing it right.
I feel like there's interactions that I've walked away and someone thinks, what the fuck's
that guy in my business for?
Right.
I feel like I feel like I've helped.
Yeah, you have helped.
I think what the difference is is you're a parent.
You have that intuition.

(49:57):
I think people look up to you because they see your relationship with your family.
Okay.
They can, you know, so when you approach them, it's a lot different from when I approach
them.
I think either way works, but I think because you have that experience as being a dad,
that it's a lot different if that makes sense.

(50:17):
Yeah, I think that might be the only difference.
And I am one of the older people that works where we work.
So I mean, you know, it's, yeah, I mean, sometimes older people are mean and you're not not
welcoming, but that's not me.
That's how I like that.
That's why we're cool.

(50:38):
You know, 100%.
I think that you have that aura.
Me, it's like, I am, but it's like, hey, you know, sometimes I feel like if I went
out to someone I really don't know and say, hey, are you okay?
They might see us like, what the fuck?
Like, you know, I don't know.
You get the fuck out of my face kind of.
That's my thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, it does.
It does.

(50:59):
And, yeah, and you, and if the interaction goes that way, then you feel stupid.
Right.
So I just like, you know what I mean?
And sometimes I'm not afraid to feel stupid.
So I'm okay with putting myself out there.
Right.
Like if it goes, if it goes south, you're like, I shouldn't have done that.

(51:19):
And then now you're in the situation of where you have to, you know, go up to them again
and go, hey, that wasn't, I shouldn't have done that.
It wasn't my business.
Right.
So some people, well, if you start to think too far ahead like, well, if this goes poorly,
then what are the interactions going to be like, that can sometimes, if you think too
much about it, sometimes that can make you not want to reach out.

(51:42):
Right.
But, um, fingers crossed.
I hope it still keeps going well when I do it.
Yeah.
No, you do.
And you do a great job of it.
Everyone loves it.
Um, for me, what I like to do is just keep my side of the street clean.
It's like, hey, I don't, I mean, I mean, I might not be, I mean, I'll be super cool to
everybody or nobody, but I do my best to be courteous, to be respectful, you know, because

(52:06):
they might be having a bad day.
You know, I, it takes a lot for me to say something out of wine.
Because, you know, I can, I may not talk to people like that, but I can see in their faces.
And to me, it's like, yo, there's no need for me to meet, for me to be like mean, roots
or cast in general.
You know, so that's, that's, that's, I think that's my way of, hey, I care about you.

(52:27):
So I'm not going to be addicted to you.
I'm not that that shouldn't be like that.
But I'm going to go, I'm going to be nice and courteous.
You know, I'm going to respect that you're going through something.
You don't got to talk about it.
But hey, I'm going to show it through action.
Hey, here's a door.
Let me get that for you, you know?
Yeah.
And then as far as joking around and communicating like that, you have to work side by side with

(52:49):
the person a lot.
And I feel like you and I have worked side by side like next to each other a lot.
So we kind of, we're kind of at that place now where we can joke around and that's not,
you know, and all that kind of stuff.
And it's fun.
Yeah.
I mean, if you, if you tell me, hey, let's do this next or I tell you, hey, why don't we
tackle this?

(53:10):
It doesn't come across as someone thinks they're in charge or anything like that.
It's like a team.
I don't like telling you what to do.
And it's like, you know, we can do this if you want.
Hey, this is, this is how you and I are always like, hey, why don't we do this next?
I'm not in charge.
But what do you think?
You do it like that?
Yeah, I think we still are very conscientious of, of not trying to be a know it all about

(53:34):
whatever we're doing.
Yeah, man.
You know, it was some people are.
Some people are.
And you know what?
It's all good.
That's them.
You're all good.
Yeah, you know, I like that.
You're like, that you're like this here in our day job and you're like this when we're stealing
cars.
I like that.
You're always conscientious.
You're like, hey, should I do this?
Should I, should I steal this, should I steal this car?

(53:54):
This way or that way?
Should I break the window?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Let's say you're not.
You know, so again, two door to four door.
Yeah, two door four door.
Again, all the joke.
This is from the goners.
We have 10 to 10 people who are not.

(54:15):
So we're not.

(54:40):
I have been consistent all these years.

(55:01):

(55:22):

(55:43):

(56:04):
I don't want to make too big of a deal.

(56:34):

(56:55):

(57:18):

(57:39):

(58:02):
Were you ever like in the music industry at some point?
Because the way you would get these guests,

(58:23):
it's almost like you were part of the music industry at one point.
No, no, I never was.
I was a full-time stand-up comedian for six years.
What?
From about 1989 through, you know, '96.
Yeah, I was full-time.

(58:44):
I was a road comic.
That was my job.
That's what I did.
And so, but no, music industry.
No, never ever in the music industry.
I worked at record stores when I was a kid in high school
and through college.
I worked at record stores.
But no, I just, and when I started the music podcast,
I didn't have an eye on, I never thought I would interview

(59:07):
or meet my heroes.
I never thought that.
I never thought that.
I thought we would just talk about every week would pick a topic.
Like, we'll talk about debut albums or we'll talk about our favorite songs
that have the word green in the title or we'll talk about songs about traveling
or, hey, we'll talk about songs that are about drugs and alcohol.
But I never thought that I would be interviewing, you know,

(59:31):
the lead singer of ACDC or Melissa Etheridge or the Bangles or anything like that.
I never thought that would happen.
happened and the show has just it's always I hope it's always evolved. And then I'm and people are like, "how did you get that guest" and I'll be like, "well, I did the hard work. But you know what I just um, you just try to find contact information for someone you want to get."

(01:00:01):
Right. I mean, lots of people. I think people that have said, "no, no, no, no, no, no..." and then all of a sudden, they say, "yes."
"Mm-hmm, either I wore them down or else they finally checked the show out." And they're like, "oh, this guy's more legit than I thought he was."
Yeah, we can do that.
Right.
But um, it comes with time. I don't think you should start a podcast next week and then the following week, try to get a big guest on, because you're not going to have,

(01:00:30):
you're not going to have the listenership, you're not going to have the savvy, you're not going to know how to record a guest,
you're not going to know how to interview. It's all, it's all baby steps and it's been a learning experience and I'm still learning things.
Right.
Yeah. For me, same thing. I mean, like, I just enjoyed, I've been listening to podcasts, you know, since like 2014, 2015, kept doing it, listening, you know,

(01:00:59):
I had some projects at school where I did interviews and I'm like, "oh, I kind of like learning about people and what they do.
Let me give it a shot." And here we are. I've had more days, I've had some years where I was more consistent, some years where I barely did it.
And now it's okay. My mind's in, you know, I have a clear mind. I like doing this. I'm going to keep podcasting.

(01:01:21):
And um, yeah, it's evolved for me too. I remember like, I would just strictly do like musicians. Now it's like, "oh, I want to venture into Mental Health field."
Talking to like, maybe like doctors, like kaiatris, I'm big of Mental Health and Recovery.
So definitely, I get that, you know, consistency is big. So you've been podcasting like 13 years, like you said.

(01:01:41):
All right. Yeah. You said, okay, consistency is one. What are other keys longevity? Because I know, I don't know if I'm sure you've noticed, there's a big spike in like, people doing podcasts the past few years, where I wasn't always like that.
You know, yeah, I mean, I have, I have a bunch of, I've actually been tweeting one day since the last five days I've been tweeting my Pat's podcasting pro tips.

(01:02:13):
So I do have some and I don't mind sharing these things. I recently saw someone that is teaching a podcast class for $450.
And I'm just like, just contact me. I'll tell you what you need to know for free. It's, come on. Yeah. That's ridiculous. It's like, it's like a lot of things you can't.

(01:02:37):
I mean, when I was doing stand-up comedy, people were teaching stand-up classes. You just have to jump in and do it. That's the only way you can learn.
But, you know, one of my pro tips is if the sound quality of your podcast isn't good, then people won't listen long enough to find out if the content is.
Okay. So that's one. Good sound is important because no one wants to strain to listen. Even if your content is great.

(01:03:08):
You know, they just won't. Definitely be consistent. I say post your show in the same day and if possible, the same time every week. That same tip applies.
Even if your show only drops every other week or even once a month.
You know, have a good microphone.

(01:03:30):
Choose a subject for your show that you won't get burnt out on quickly. I love talking about music because it's never ending.
That podcast, that's easier to sustain. Let's say your podcast was about toast. You know what I mean?
Yeah. I'm never going to run out of ideas. A friend of mine just had quadruple bypass.

(01:03:56):
Right. Okay. He's doing great. Well, he's going to be able to come on the show in a couple weeks. We're going to talk about songs that have heart in the title, H-E-A-R-T.
And then, but I'm going to interview him about his procedure and about his recovery and his rehab. So I can talk about other things, but we can frame it with music. You know what I mean?

(01:04:24):
Right. Really easy to do. So you got to put in the AQ Ricky heart by Ray Cyrus.
You know what? I didn't think of it, but yes, definitely. Yeah. I like what you're saying because for me, it's not so much before it was like, you know, it was mainly about like, you know, musicians, creators, but now it's like, let me talk to people I want to talk to.

(01:04:50):
You know, like if regardless of they have a big following or not, but I'm interested in what they do, do them all in. Like I, you know, that's big for me. I think I think for everybody, like maybe great sound isn't always available at first.
I'm just going to talk to you about what you've got. I've definitely listened to stuff where the phone call, but the conversation was so good that the fact that it was a phone conversation kind of flew past by me.

(01:05:18):
Well, that's good. Now I'm glad you're saying that. I mean, again, that is not my belief, but I'm glad you're saying that.
Yeah, yeah, I just don't want people to go into it. And it's especially at the beginning. And if you sound so amateurish, it's like, dude, I can't, I can't because people are people are putting in time. They're putting in their ear, your, your bud. And you, what do I want to say? It's such a.

(01:05:44):
The relationship with podcasting. I mean, my, my voice is right in your head. Your voice is right in our head. You know what I mean? Yeah.
This is a, this is a wild story. This just happened like two weeks ago. I was at the local target with my wife.
And I was standing by a register and I was talking to someone and the guy working the register at target turns to me. And he says, are you Pat Francis?

(01:06:16):
Whoa.
And I said, what? And he goes, are you Pat Francis? And I said, yes, he goes, oh my God, I heard your voice. And I just knew it was you.
I've been listening to your podcast for the past four years. That's awesome. That was amazing. I, because I, that was amazing. He didn't recognize my face. He recognized my voice.

(01:06:42):
And, and then he asks, like, you know, you might think like, is that, that sounds like Vaughn? Nah, that can't be Vaughn. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Yeah. But to ask me, it was, it was, it was wild. So that was, yeah, I got, that was a high. I got a high on that from that compliment. That's pretty cool.
And I think, okay, I get what you're saying. Like, you know, audio is like, the quality is great. It's a, it's a must. But at the same time, it's like, maybe they can't afford like a good mic at the time, starting out. I agree.

(01:07:16):
I think that, that I think, because there's some times where some people may think, I have all the fancy equipment. So henceforth, my podcast should be good.
But if you don't have the conversation skills, I think it's a double edged sword. You know, it's like, yeah, you can have a really nice mic. But if you don't have the conversation skills, you know, but again, I totally agree.
I, you know, I will definitely listen to a better sounding podcast over one that isn't, but at the same time, there has been ones where I listen to it. Oh, I was so into it.

(01:07:47):
You know, oh shit, this is cool, but they're talking about. And I think, yeah. And I was like, okay, this is accessible. I can do this. And like, you know, obviously level up over time. I didn't get a roadcaster pro until like last year.
Up until then, I was, you know, in a studio or like, do my own thing, but definitely, I, your quality is good. Over time, it has to be a should be a goal.

(01:08:11):
Yeah. And it's so funny, Von, I have such a like an inside response, like when someone else tells me they have a podcast, because when you told me,
you, you found out I had a podcast and then you said, Oh, dude, I have a podcast. And in my head, I was immediately like dismissive, like I not outwardly. But in my, when anyone tells me they have a podcast, I'm always like, sure you do.

(01:08:37):
So then immediately that night, Von, I come home and I look you up. And I'm like, all right, this guy has a fucking podcast. He wasn't kid. He wasn't fucking around. He wasn't kidding.
But you know, I have had people tell me that and then I look, I'm like, yeah, they've done two episodes. They, they're not podcasting yet. So I was, I was so excited.

(01:08:59):
You know, I probably even came home and told my wife, Oh, guy, it worked. I had a podcast. Jesus Christ. But then I looked it up and then I was like, Oh, no, this fucking guy's.
Thank you. Thank you, man. He's more, he's, you're more legit in many ways than I am when I look who you've had on and and it's just like it was refreshing because I'm like, fat, great. Now, now I feel comfortable talking podcasts with you because I didn't want you to be the guy that was brand new at it. And look, look, I'll talk to the guy that's brand new.

(01:09:34):
I didn't want to be trapped at work with the brand new guy picking my brain every day. And I know that's a part of me that sounds like a horrible person. But you know what I mean?
I know what you mean. Yes, it's like, you know, I make music. I rap and some people are like, I rap too. I'm like, all right, cool. You know, that's what's up. And I get it. You know, that's why I don't try to come off as very like a bag of dosha's.

(01:10:00):
Like a dosha's will ride you. It is right. It's fun. I like to, I like to, I'm in the belief. I'm in the camp that's like, you know, let the, let like your work speak for itself. You know, right. Yeah, I was.
I was. Yeah. Oh, keep going. I'm sorry. Oh, no, no, that's pretty much what it was. Like, you know, I can tell people that I do this. This and that. It will like so much enthusiasm. We're like, I'm like forcing it down the throat. I don't want to do that. Oh, yeah. I have a podcast. I make music.

(01:10:26):
If you want to check it out, it is. Anyway, yeah, remember when I was on the road doing stand-up comedy and it's probably like two or three years in. And I needed a haircut on the road. So I'm.
I met whatever, you know, supercods, wherever I was getting my haircut. And I would always avoid telling anyone I was a stand-up comedian because then they want you to be funny. They want you to tell me joke. And I don't want to do that. You know, I mean, I'm not that kind of a.

(01:10:54):
You know, I can I can be funny. I can make you laugh, but I don't want on the spot. Make me laugh. Tell me a joke. And I remember.
I was talking to the woman cutting my hair and she's like, Oh, do you live here? And then it came out that I was in town doing stand-up comedy. And then she said, Oh, you're a stand-up comedian.

(01:11:15):
My mailman is a stand-up comedian. And in my head, I went, No, he's not. He's a mailman. You know, I'm saying, Yeah, that was my job. I was making money. That was my living. I was a working stand-up comedian.
Don't tell me your mailman is a stand-up comedian. He's a mailman. He might be going out and doing open mics, but he's a mailman. Right. You know what I mean? And so that's kind of sometimes the response I get when someone says about being a podcast.

(01:11:50):
The thing about stand-up comedian stand-up comedy and podcasting is that anyone can do it. Anyone can go and throw their hat in the ring. Anyone can buy a mic, Vaughn and plug in and go to a hosting site and pay the monthly fee and record a podcast and put it out to the world.
Any single person can do that. So it's not a special thing unless you have longevity and listenership and a track record. That's how I feel currently about podcasting.

(01:12:26):
100% same with music, same as rap. I mean, yeah, there was rapper. You can just plug it in. Go on and sound. I'll upload it. And you know, I'm all for it. I think it's great. I'm all for it too.
The entry level is great. I don't like where it has to be. Oh, you need to have this and this to start. No, you can start right now. I like that part. I don't know why some people are very don't like that part of it.

(01:12:48):
I like the fact that it's accessible. I don't think it takes away from the whole industry or whatever itself. But I'm a fan of, you know, I like it when people are like, you know, they belong to every their consistent. I mean, everyone's different.
To me, what like again, no shot anybody, but to me, it's like what how I can tell like, oh, you're about this shit is if you have like 100 episodes. That's how I can tell me that's like, okay, you're fucking with it. You know, 100 episodes on your belt.

(01:13:16):
Cool. Like it may take some time. But to me, that's like, all right. Cause I feel the same way. I have a podcast. Oh, yeah, cool. I never check it out. That's just your I check yours out. But like, I'm sure.
And I checked yours out. But yeah, normally, yeah, I don't listen to podcasts myself. Okay, that makes sense. I just, I mean, my wife has had a podcast for almost 15 years.

(01:13:39):
And so I, I do the post production on her show and I upload that every week for her. She, she records and everything on her own, but I do the post for her. And so between recording my show and doing the post uploading it and helping my wife with hers.
I'm all podcasted out. You know what I mean? Makes sense. I mean, for me, I have a lot of musicians friends, but I don't listen to their music.

(01:14:04):
So my friends, I don't know if that makes sense, but like, no, no, it doesn't make sense. It's like, it's hard to get.
I wonder if like, I wonder if the people that Brad Pitt went to high school with. If they're like, I'm not going to go see Brad's stupid movie.
I think that's stupid Brad from chemistry class. I feel like sometimes they're, oh, shit here. I know this guy. Like they're watching like fucking what?

(01:14:27):
Seven or a, right. So I'm sure, oh, fuck this guy. He was annoying.
That was a done with an idiot. I hated this guy. I know a problem.
Or they gave me like to a girl. Oh, yeah, I know Brad Pitt. Oh, Brad. That's not even his real name. I used to go to high school with him. That could be like also a thing too.
You know, they could use it as leverage. Oh, yeah, Brad Pitt. We go way back. You know, but yeah, none of I know when I know from high school or grade school.

(01:14:55):
Or I think one guy from college listens to this. Right. Listen to my podcast, but they don't give a shit. They're doing their thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So also to I know this. Okay. This is a funny story. When you told me you have a podcast rock song. Cool. I'm going to check it out.
First place I went to Spotify because that's why I listen to podcasts. I'm like, okay, there's a couple of rock solids. And I'm like, huh.

(01:15:21):
I don't know if it's the same one, bro. This is like on some religious stuff, which is again, nothing against it. But I was like, I don't know this is Pat.
This isn't seem like Pat. I listen to it. I'm like, huh. I don't. This is Pat. And then the next day. Hey, man. I couldn't find you on Spotify.
I'm like, Oh, and you told me a reason that you removed your podcast and Spotify. Why is that? Yeah. I'm not. Now look, if you Google Pat Francis and Roxas, I'll, it comes up.

(01:15:50):
You can find me anywhere. Right. Apple Apple everywhere. Amazon every single place, but not Spotify because. Look.
Any company that's going to give Joe Rogan $200 million to spout is idiocy. It's just not someone I want to be associated with. When I hear that number of on $200 million to one podcast.

(01:16:16):
You can give you can give 200 podcasts, a million dollars. You can give 400 podcasts, half a million dollars. I mean, you can break it down to $100,000. That's money you would take and I would take in a heartbeat. Yeah.
But you have one guy, all that money. And plus when these big corporations start to pay that kind of money, they then set a precedent that.

(01:16:44):
Oh, this, this show or this person's worth $200 million. And look, maybe when you do the numbers economically, maybe he is. Maybe he gets that many listeners that it's worth it to them to get behind him.
Man, that's a lot. I mean, they could pay life changing money to 800 different podcasters in many different genres. And, you know, and make a difference with all those people.

(01:17:14):
It was just for me, it was a lot. And it's like, am I going to get it? I don't, I like some of his episodes. Some people he has are pretty cool. But some people are like, oh, okay.
Yeah, it's cool to get it. It's too. You have your own, she has own genre. But, you know, okay. I don't know if you've seen these memes. But like for a minute, like podcasting was like, oh, you're, you're like, you're like those alpha male guys are just like those Joe Rogan type dudes.

(01:17:43):
You know, I remember someone in our store was like, oh, you have a podcast. Yeah. Well, do you like women? Are you a feminist? I'm like, yeah, oh, okay. Because when I thought of podcasts, I think of like guys just shitting on girls and women and man's rights and, you know, Joe Rogan's definitely, oh, that's okay. I'm sorry.
You know, I'm sorry that the podcasting has had that like stereotype, you know, because Joe Rogan's a face of it. Some stuff again, some stuff is cool. Some stuff is like interesting. Like, I don't know. People on his show.

(01:18:16):
Some people on his show, the medical community is not very happy about like, you know, yeah, that's all saying pretty much. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, all, all male
broadcasters are not douchey misogynists. Right. But I get why women say that and I'm like, oh, okay, well, that's okay. I'm not. That's not me. But I'm sorry that that, you know, that's chairs. I was been cast upon us. But hey, that's all good.

(01:18:47):
But if you look, give us a listen and you'll know immediately that's not that's not the lane we're in. Yeah. Yeah, man. I think that's all the time we got, man. Thank you so much. This is a fun conversation. I really enjoyed this conversation.
It's always fun talking to you on an off work. You know.

(01:19:11):
So thank you. I agree. When I see you when I see you walk into work, I get a smile on my face too. And I can't wait to have you on my show. We'll talk about music that you like and you can school me in some music that is not in my wheelhouse.
And I will be happy to listen and then I'll play some stuff that's in my wheelhouse. We'll just try to we'll try to win each other over. Yeah, definitely.

(01:19:37):
Well, again, thank you for your time on this lovely Friday morning. Where can we find you on social media, Instagram and Twitter at rock solid show.
You can go to rock solid podcast dot com for all things about the show. And if you Google just Google rock solid podcast and Pat Francis have a wonderful day. And thank you again for being on the show. I mean, I appreciate it.

(01:20:02):
Thank you, Vanna. See you soon. Have a good one.

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