May 19, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode Von and guest Nora discuss the journey of aging gracefully, the societal pressures surrounding midlife, and the importance of redefining success. They explore personal growth, the impact of capitalism on perceptions of aging, and the significance of mental health support. The conversation emphasizes the value of community, therapy, and self-acceptance as they navigate the complexities of growing older.
Chapters
(00:00) Celebrating Birthdays and Personal Growth
(02:30) Aging Gracefully: Embracing Midlife
(08:06) Redefining Success and Societal Pressures
(13:22) The Impact of Capitalism on Aging
(18:24) Navigating Relationships and Personal Choices
(23:48) Lessons Learned in Our 30shttps://linktr.ee/norarahimian
(29:45) Finding Joy and Intentionality in Aging
Nora Linktree:
https://linktr.ee/norarahimian
Chapters
(00:00) Celebrating Birthdays and Personal Growth
(02:30) Aging Gracefully: Embracing Midlife
(08:06) Redefining Success and Societal Pressures
(13:22) The Impact of Capitalism on Aging
(18:24) Navigating Relationships and Personal Choices
(23:48) Lessons Learned in Our 30shttps://linktr.ee/norarahimian
(29:45) Finding Joy and Intentionality in Aging
Nora Linktree:
https://linktr.ee/norarahimian
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there! My name is Vaughn and this is the Vaughncast Show. This is a podcast that focuses on
(00:08):
meant to help breaking societal stigmas, harm reduction, addiction and recovery. If you like what
you hear, subscribe and leave a review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Also, follow the podcast
Instagram @thevaughncast show where I post video content from the show. All right, let's get into
(00:33):
today's episode. Welcome to the Vaughncast show. I'm your host Vaughn. Happy money everybody.
Hope everybody's doing well. Today I got Nora on the show. I love coming back on this show.
Glad to have you. How are you doing today? I'm good. I have pushed with me so I'm getting all the
dog serotonin. I'm going on a birthday trip soon. So I'm like planning. Yeah. Awesome. Wait, can I tell
(01:01):
you the most lovely thing that happened? It'll tie in. Yeah. Yeah. My neighbor hit me up yesterday
and not like neighbor in my building, but neighbor like in the other side of the neighborhood. And she
was like, are you home? I have something for you. And I was like, yeah. And so she came by. She had
baked me an entire cake decorated it with like happy birthday Nora. And it was so I haven't had a
(01:26):
birthday cake since I was like four years old. It was so sweet. And then her and I invited her
and her husband up. And so they came up and we like sat in my living room and ate birthday cake.
And it was lovely. So I'm good. I'm like, very happy. Very cool. Does your ketamine treatment today?
No, I have. I'm going every other week now. So my one isn't until Tuesday. But it's working. And I
(01:51):
know we did that episode. So I hope your listeners are listening to it. And I'll read if they have any
questions. I love talking about ketamine. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So topic today. Well, you're
turning your your birthday in a couple of days. Yeah. Turning 40, which is awesome. I'm right behind
(02:11):
jump 37. Got a couple more years. And then I'm 40 as well. I actually want to talk to you.
Our audience today about like aging gracefully and turning 40 and it being okay. I don't know for
some reason. Growing up, I always thought like, oh, someone's like 40. They're old. But then as I
got older, I got to meet other people that are older than me. I'm like, oh, they're pretty cool.
(02:35):
They're pretty chill. Like I wish I out. I hope to be as cool and like down earth as this person
when I get to their age. So yeah, we'll talk about just like societal pressure of it. And
well, we can how we can reframe like that negative thinking. I read an article on psychology today by
(02:55):
Deborah Heiser. She says that, you know, we're taught to view middle life as a point where we're
we lose aspect of ourselves aspects of ourselves. But like we we can also reframe it as like a time of
empowerment, emotional growth, and opportunity. So with that said, you talked about
going on a birthday trip. Where are you going? I'm going to Japan. Oh, fun. Okay. First time.
(03:18):
First time. And I'm going, you know, I've traveled a lot for work. I'm going for myself. Like there's no
agenda. I'm going by myself. Like it's very restful and like, yeah. This idea of like what you
just said about middle age really makes it the older I've gotten the more I feel like I'm actually
(03:41):
finding myself and coming closer and closer to the version of myself that I was before society
and politics and all these things told me not to be that person. So I it's such an interesting way
to think of midlife when people are like, oh no, I'm losing things and I'm I feel like the older I get
(04:02):
the more I've been gaining. I totally agree with that because I'll be honest. I dread it sometimes.
I get reminded on my age, on my coworkers on a bad way. But usually it's when a song comes out. Oh,
this song was popular with my high school graduation or high school prom. Like I was born. I was just like
(04:22):
I was like, 10. I'm like, oh shit. You know, like time is flying. And I dread it sometimes. Sometimes
I feel like, what am I doing? I don't know how my shit together. And then some days I'm okay with it.
Some days I'm super confident about it. But I really want to talk about it because a lot of people
are age. I feel like they're feeling that I was kind of ashamed about my age for a long time. I get
(04:46):
compliments. Oh, you look young. Thank you. But I was just by jeans. I don't I don't do anything. I
have a skincare routine. But it gets to me, you know, and I wanted to talk to somebody about it.
I did a podcast about it a few weeks ago, but hey, when you said you're turned 40 and people ask you
questions, I'm like, oh, it's going to be great for this podcast conversation. Hold that thought
(05:06):
about the you look so young thing because I have a lot of thoughts on that. But I think there's
something about like our generation in particular who we've been told that like by this age, you should
have this, this, this, and this. And it very much like individualizes so many things that are
outside of our control. And it tells us what success is rather than allowing us to define it for ourselves.
(05:33):
So then we reach these ages where we're like, oh, I don't have this thing that I've been told I
should have. And I think it creates like a weird dissonance. But the reality of it is one, we live,
we've survived what like two or three recessions, but like government isn't shit. Like it's chaotic.
(05:53):
And so to expect us to act like nothing is happening and to just follow like a career trajectory
of capitalism, like that doesn't make any sense. And then I think our we demand better out of
relationships. And so all these things that we've been told we should have don't really mean anything
to us in the same way. So I think that's sometimes the tension of age where our generation and I'm not
(06:21):
saying all of us like I'm not trying to speak for the whole all of you know. But I think there's
something there about we've like we've rejected some of the standard markers of success because we've
given ourselves space and time to decide our own because those standard markers are inaccessible to
us. Can't afford a house. I can't like all these things that we've been told we should have by
(06:46):
a certain age. So it's really like a space to question the sheds. And then that's not to mention like
what people really mean when they say, oh, you look so young. Which I'll get to if you're ready for me
to go on that rant. Yeah, we'll get into it in a bit. But there's this so back in 2005. There was this
(07:06):
song, I fall out boy and the lyrics, it resonated with me. It says in the poets are just kids who didn't make it.
20 years ago, I resonated with that for some reason. I'm like, oh, this is going to be me like when I get
older and be like, not the traditional byproduct of what I'm supposed to be for some reason I embrace that.
(07:27):
And it's that line I resonated with 2005, 2006 when I was bumping that album with my little
I piano. And it resonates with me now when I was bumping on my iPhone. And I think I knew from like a
young age, I want to be different. Not like I don't want to be different to be different, but I just kind
of knew and it feels kind of good living it out. I totally agree with you're saying like those standards
(07:50):
don't mean success for everybody. The house thing I agree with relationships. I I'm not really looking
for relationship. And I feel like it would be wasting my time and other people's time if I was trying
when I really don't have it in me. When a lot of my friends, a lot of my peers are settling down
(08:12):
having families. I'm happy for them. It's like, that's great. It's just it's not me and that's okay.
Yeah.
Do you have an idea of what you wanted to be doing when you turned 40 versus what you're doing now?
I mean, honestly, honestly, honestly, and I know this is a place where like you talk about mental
(08:34):
health. So like maybe trigger warning. I don't want to live this long. I never thought I would
what 40 like no. So I know I had no idea what I'd be doing because I honestly was hoping I wouldn't
be around to see 40. And so it's it's really interesting to not just be here for 40, but to
(08:59):
feel good at 40 and to like mentally be in a good place and to feel hopeful about a future and
like in terms of career. The one thing I think a lot about is how much people would tell me, oh,
I always knew I didn't want to get married. I always knew I didn't want to have kids. I always knew
(09:20):
kind of to what you were just saying. Like I always knew I'd be a little different. And people would
tell me, oh, you'll change your mind when you get older. Oh, you'll you'll soften up when you get older.
And I have not. I have gotten if anything, I have gotten more radical, more political,
more sure that I don't want to have kids who get married. So that's like if I ever thought about
(09:44):
myself at that age, it was more in terms of like my values and my beliefs and and much less about like
the job I thought I would have. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Our previous guest also had
thoughts of suicide to the point where he wrote a will out. Like he wrote a will out. He's a musician,
(10:08):
so he said, okay, I want to give assets to my family, but he went to therapy, realized that he didn't
want to go through it, which is great. For me, I don't know. I think I thought I would still be getting
high. Like I think just using was just this great way to escape reality and escape. These feelings
that I had such as getting older. Okay, there's none of this matters as long as I'm using. And that
(10:32):
was just like my motivation. I think at one point I told myself I was really down and out. I was using
opiates pretty heavy. And I thought maybe like, what if I just like ended all? But then I realized,
oh, shit, but you can't get high if you die, man. So I'm like, oh, okay, well, I guess I got a will
(10:53):
to live, man. And now that will live has changed. But yeah, I never thought of like, I don't know,
maybe it's ADHD, but I don't think very far ahead of the future for good or bad. But I never really thought
like, what do you owe? And there's that phrase, like live fast, die young kind of thing. And also,
too, I think it's a privilege to get older because there's a lot of people that didn't.
(11:18):
I have a acquaintance, rest in peace. Someone I went to high school with, we partied in the same
circles. And then I found out, I think a year ago, the past day from an overdose. So it's like, oh,
shit, that is wild. And I feel really lucky to have not succumbed to an overdose. So I got to
(11:41):
be famous for myself. It's like, hey, all this stuff's happening. You made it out right now.
And when I think about it like that, oh, okay, I should be more grateful as the post is seeing it as,
oh, fuck, I'm turning 40 soon. I'm turning 38, 39.
I mean, that also makes me think about like the ways that we define success isn't the same for everybody.
(12:08):
And so like for you to be clean and sober at this age, at this point in your life. And like, I know how
like what that's meant, you know, all that stuff, like how hard you've worked. Who's to say that that's not
as important a measure of like how far you've come in life as the person with like a fancy job.
(12:30):
Or the person, right, like we have this hierarchy somehow of like what's worthwhile or valid
and what's not. And I think sometimes these are the same thing like with your previous guests who like
survived. Like those things are just as valuable as these external markers that we put on ourselves.
(12:50):
And I think they deserve much more recognition and celebration than we give them both personally,
but also culturally. It's different way of looking at things. Yeah, with the marriage thing,
yeah, I think I wrote it in a size like, oh, maybe one day, you know, I'll be like, oh, I get married
to this, my girlfriend on my space and then I'll have a little like email family. But then I realized
(13:14):
like, wait, this is just like almost a fancy. For me, it was just, yeah, it's really cool.
I do have it a girlfriend. It's really cool. Then we heard meeting my folks and everything and
like going to family parties. But realistically, it's like, no, I think I just really like the idea of it.
And I know there's a lot that goes into a relationship. And I know that I'm not built for that. I don't
(13:35):
really want to deal with that. So I'm like, I don't want to waste anybody's time for my time. So I say,
I'm not really into it, but I'm happy when other people are. So we put a pin on that, oh, you look so
young for your age comment. And I'm not going to lie. I feel good about it. But then when I really think
(13:55):
about it, I kind of question it. Talk to us about that, like the societal pressures that makes aging
a little more difficult, especially for women. I feel like with with men, it's a little easier. Oh,
dad bod's in, right? Oh, it's cool to have a dad bod. But like, is there a mom bod? Like do we, do we
accept that? Oh, yeah, I mean, like capitalism celebrates the youth. Why? Because youth is easy to
(14:21):
exploit. It's easy to take advantage of. And it can produce a lot of labor. So that's one part of
it. Then the other part of it is if we can create something that people cannot control, which is aging,
we all age and we can make people feel bad about it. Then we can sell them the solutions to the thing
(14:43):
that's inevitable. So there's now, so one, we want to focus on youth because it's exploitable, you
know, it's worth to our benefit. That we want to make people feel bad for getting old so we can
sell them more things. And you look at skincare and they're like skincare is self care. No, the
fuck it's not like it might make you feel good. But actual self care is wage equity or affordable
(15:07):
housing or right, but it's again, one of those circumstances where we've individualized a systemic
thing. We've erased the things that really like make aging show on people's body, stress, bad food,
lack of sleep, like all the things that again are what results of capitalism. So somehow our culture
(15:31):
has managed to make people feel so bad, but also at the same time, like make the situation worse
for aging and it's normal. Let's add to that the fact that then we don't have spaces in our culture
where older people are celebrated, are respected and coming from a culture that's very intergenerational.
(15:59):
There's historically old people have always been part of communities. As you age, it's not like you
become more and more useless. Your role changes, but it's still a role in the community. So now here,
we are here in individualist America. And as we get older, not only do we worry about how will be
perceived, we're also worried about the impact of that perception. If people see me as old,
(16:24):
they will treat me worse and worse and worse because we treat old people poorly. So all of these
things come together and then for women, it's even like doubled down because our society really
tries to tell women that how they look is their only value and how they look to a male gaze.
(16:47):
And so if you're no longer attractive to that male gaze, well, and now you're no longer valuable.
So all of that comes together. So when people tell me, oh, you look good for 30. Oh, you look good
for 40. I understand the intention of it. But what you're telling me is that there's a certain way
that 40 is supposed to look that I don't look it, but I should feel bad if I did look 40.
(17:13):
If I had, and I do, I have my grades, I have my wrinkle, like, and I love that shit. I'm so,
I'm like, yes, bring it on. I'm so proud of it. But we receive all these messages to make
ourselves feel bad about it because capitalism, patriarchy, all these things benefit
from making us feel bad about growing older. Well said, I never realized the
(17:38):
capitalistic part behind it. Yeah, it makes total sense. And I think too for women, like, I've had
some friends where they're like, yeah, I feel kind of pressured to like have a kid because just like that
biological, what's that called? The ticking, whatever it's like you can have.
They call it a biological time, yeah. Yeah. And they do feel a pressure. Some
(18:00):
some of my friends' family's pressure and more about it. And some are just totally cool with
this. They're not having kids putting myself in a woman's point of view. I'm just like kind of
in shock right now thinking like, damn, I just have to walk out the door. I don't have to like
make up or do anything to probably like to have like a skin routine or anything. And it's like,
wow, like, be a lot different if I wasn't a guy. Yeah. Right. Because men are allowed to exist
(18:28):
as they are. But women are consumed by an external gaze. The other thing I think about sometimes is like the
way that trends reflect our age. And like, you know, Gen Z dresses a certain way. And this is how
millennials dress. And we've created this like fake generational war so that we can feel like we're
(18:53):
not hip enough. And then what's the solution will go dress this way. Go buy new clothes because your
old right those like skinny jeans are so millennial. And if you want to be more Gen Z, you've got to buy
this new stuff. And how much that's designed to one get us to consume, but two to keep a separate
rather than United. Yeah. Well said. I never again, I never thought of that. Yeah. I do notice it. Like
(19:19):
a lot of younger kids are dressing how I dress in elementary and middle school. I'm like, what?
Like, this is back. I thought we're done with Jinko jeans. And it looks cool. I let them do their thing
because it's like, Hey, I was that age. Hey, join it. And I drove by a high school the other day. And
I was like, I had all those outfits. I think I mentioned it in a previous podcast. I was in a
(19:44):
bay for the weekend. And I saw kids lighting up for like junior and senior pronger. And I face time
my prom date the next day. I'm like, Hey, that was us like 20 years ago. You know, it's a trip. It's
like time flies. But like you said earlier, you're becoming more true to your meant to be. You want
(20:06):
to be than when you were younger. Speaking of which, are there any big life lessons you learned
in your 30s that you want to share? I think one of the biggest things I've learned is to not
negotiate myself to not like compromise what I want from other people. And I think for a long time,
(20:31):
I was like, Oh, well, this person is like nice enough or our values are aligned enough or there
are reliable enough. And I felt this disconnect because I wasn't building the kind of community I
wanted to be building. And I realized I was settling for crumbs really. And so the more I became
(20:59):
connected to myself, then the more I was like, I don't want crumbs. I rather not have anything.
Right? Because this is what we tell we if we're starving, you accept crumbs. But then you don't
ever have like a solid meal. Weird metaphor, but run with me. And I realized I was settling for
crumbs. And so, anyways, that's a weird way of saying like the more you know your worth and the more
(21:23):
you demand what you want, the more it'll show up for you. And I think that was a big lesson for me,
especially in my relationships with other people. Because now I find myself really building and being
part of the kind of communities that I've always craved. But didn't feel accessible for me when I was
like in my 20s, for example, that's that the relationship stuff I think has been a big lesson
(21:47):
for me throughout my 30s. Right. And that's pretty good. That sometimes you make compromises.
And I'm learning not to do that as much. I think I'm a people pleaser. And I'm learning how to say
no when I really don't want to do something. Because oftentimes, maybe it's my culture too, where it's like
(22:07):
you should do it to be nice. Or this person's nice to you should be my favorite. And I think
if you want to, yeah. But oftentimes I find myself saying yes when I don't want to. And I build the
resentment. And at the end of the day, it's not really their fault. It's my fault. So I built a
(22:27):
resentment for myself. I would you say, yeah, like the heck. So yeah, I agree with that. And for me,
it's just being kinder to myself. I think for the longest time, I beat myself up for mistakes.
Or the past, I still do, but I'm being more mindful about it. And just
(22:53):
being okay. I always felt like never enough. I didn't do enough. And I think in my 30s, when I
realized like, okay, I want to stop using a lot of this came to mind. Before I was just
told it's at high, let's forget. Let's run away from my feelings. Let's do this as that. Then when
(23:14):
that stopped and I continued to not use a lot of this clarity came to mind.
So yeah, that was a big lesson for me. Just be kinder to yourself. I know it's easier than
some days, but for me, that's big. It's now it's like, it's okay. If I make a mistake, yeah,
(23:35):
beat myself up about it, but not as much as I used to. And just kind of move on. It's being
kinder to myself. And I feel like I'm less stressed out, less dangerous about things.
There's something about like I think I had to learn how to be human. Like it's okay to be imperfect.
It's okay to make mistakes. I'm not a mind reader. I can't anticipate what other people need or want.
(23:59):
And I had a therapist, excuse me, I had a therapist tell me, you teach people how to treat you.
And I was like, what? That sounds so victim blaming. She's like, no, no, no. Like how you treat
yourself is how other people treat you. What you allow other people to do is what they will do.
(24:22):
And so this idea of like, why would I be mean to myself if I wouldn't accept that from other people?
Why would I, and so I totally understand what you're saying. Because sometimes I was like, dang,
I was really rough on myself. Why? I wouldn't accept that from other people. Why do I allow myself to it?
(24:43):
And for me, journaling was really helpful in making that change. I started writing little love letters to myself.
And I was like, oh, okay, this helps.
Yeah, definitely. I'm glad that journaling works for you. I started journaling now. I use it now
when I'm frustrated. I just journal like how I'm feeling or what happened. It doesn't make it
(25:06):
okay right away, but just writing it out for some reason and just kind of like when I put on paper on my phone.
I feel a little better. I processed it to put my roded down. Sometimes I have these thoughts in my head,
but a lot of times I have so many thoughts I don't get to really get to like,
figure out which one's good or which one's not, but when I put it down, okay, I felt this way.
(25:28):
And then usually I look at my phone maybe like a couple hours later, I feel a little better about it.
Also too, how do we approach aging in a more positive light?
Again, we talked about how it's like we dread it and we see this loss. Because for me, I feel like
what I think I really miss about it all is being able to duck responsibilities.
(25:52):
I think when I was younger using, I was cool. I can say fuck it, but now I'm 37. I really can't
do that as much. I mean, I can. I just know the consequences, but I think that's what I really miss
about being younger is being able to do that. I keep looking back. Oh, remember when you did this,
(26:17):
did that. I think of all the fun times and most of my fun times was under the influence. So now,
why don't do that? It's like, man, I feel like I'm only going to different life. And I had a
better life when I was doing all that, but realistically I didn't. And so for me sometimes,
Asian is like, what am I going to do now? A lot of times I just stay home. But like, how do we approach
(26:42):
aging in a healthier way? I think we have response in an intergenerational community.
Every one of all ages has responsibilities. Whether you meet those responsibilities or not
is a different question. But I think what you're talking about is like, how do we have fun as we
(27:04):
get older? Maybe. And I, part of that is like, we have to be intentional about it. As you get older,
like, are you making time for community? Are you playing? Are you learning new things? Like,
the things that we used to do when we were younger, the healthy ones, not the unhealthy ones. But like,
(27:24):
part of like our cultural conditioning is we stop doing those things because we have to do the
adulting of things. And I think it's about being intentional about allowing space for play,
for creativity, for connect, like, you have to be intentional in how you build your life. And I
(27:45):
think that's one of the things that we think that life just happens. And we don't think about it
consciously. We're like, okay, now I get a job. Now I date someone. Now I get married. And this is
what I do until I die. And I don't think that's fulfilling way to approach it. And so for
whether or not that's what you want, the act of being thoughtful and intentional and like,
(28:08):
really curating your life, I think that makes a big difference in aging. I think the other thing is
seeing older people who are living the kind of life you want to live. Right? Like for me,
growing up, I saw my grandma and her siblings and they were all older women. And now I'm like,
(28:30):
dang, they must not have even been that old. But in my mind, they were like ancient. And all they
had were like, their kids to live for. And that's what I thought aging was. And then I started to see
different kinds of elders who were active and who were doing things. And I'm like, okay,
I can decide how I want to be. And I think that's the other part is we have
(28:54):
agency over how we age to a certain degree, right? Like the body's going to do what the body's
going to do. But we have agency over the life that we create for ourselves. And I think that makes
aging easier. Also, honestly, go to therapy. Like if you can heal the shit now, so you don't have to
(29:17):
deal with it when you're 70 or 80. Oh my goodness, it changes everything. And especially like
we have, you know, like, yeah, our generation really has no excuses not to be getting some kind
of mental health support. Not to say that there's not barriers. But I think those things make it
(29:39):
really different how we grow old versus how I think the generations before us did.
Like I totally agree 100% that are people I know in my generation let the shit on the younger generation.
But what I like about younger generation is they're able to express their feelings more. They know
more about mental health and more willing to get therapy. I didn't start doing therapy until I was in
(30:03):
my mid 30s. And it's helping so much. And just unlearning all the bad things, doing what it's from
and now can definitely make you have like a better audio of life down the road. And like you said,
there's barriers, which is unfortunate, but there's like resources out there. I just wish therapy
(30:26):
is more accessible. I feel like a lot of the world problems would be solved. So these problems
would be solved if there's more therapy and it's more accessible. I won't say it for folks who are
listening. I know it's also like if you're depressed finding the capacity or the spoons to then find
a therapist, sometimes you just don't have it or if you're anxious or if you're like going through
(30:49):
stuff. And so I will always help people find like therapeutic services if they need it. Just
reach out to me. Tell me you heard me on the podcast and I'll do my best to connect you to resources.
Because I think it's one of those things that sometimes we need community support around. And
(31:09):
you know, it's not always the easiest thing to access. So if folks are listening and you have
interest in findings therapy, reach out to me and I will help you find that if that feels like
too much for you to do on your own. Correct. If I remember correctly, you helped me out. I remember
(31:30):
I reached out to you and you gave me like the role and one about it. Okay, this is what you might
mean. I forgot the exact details but I do remember reaching out to you about it. You also told me
about a 12 step program. And I remember my last day of using it. Okay, I should check out
Nora's advice again and get some help. And here I am still clean. And like you said, yeah,
(31:56):
sometimes it's difficult to find that resource. That's great that you are volunteering for anybody who
might be interested. And also to, if you can't do therapy, I'll talk to somebody about it.
I think that helps. I don't know for my generation, especially that I had a hard time telling other
people what was wrong with me or how it's feeling. Because I felt like I was being a burden.
(32:19):
Because most of my friends have like a family of their own. And I was like, I don't want to bother them.
But then I said, no, no, actually reach out to us instead of like doing your other unhealthy coping
mechanism. I think that is about it. Thank you. I really needed this talk. I needed this conversation.
Because again, like I said some days, I really struggle with it. And it's cool to know that I'm not alone.
(32:42):
Yeah. Yeah. You're not alone. You're not alone. Getting old is great.
Thank you so much for your time. No pleasure. Thank you for having me again.
Awesome. Well, enjoy the rest of your weekend and happy early birthday.
Thank you. And take care.
Hey there! My name is Vaughn and this is the Vaughncast Show. This is a podcast that focuses on
(00:08):
meant to help breaking societal stigmas, harm reduction, addiction and recovery. If you like what
you hear, subscribe and leave a review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Also, follow the podcast
Instagram @thevaughncast show where I post video content from the show. All right, let's get into
(00:33):
today's episode. Welcome to the Vaughncast show. I'm your host Vaughn. Happy money everybody.
Hope everybody's doing well. Today I got Nora on the show. I love coming back on this show.
Glad to have you. How are you doing today? I'm good. I have pushed with me so I'm getting all the
dog serotonin. I'm going on a birthday trip soon. So I'm like planning. Yeah. Awesome. Wait, can I tell
(01:01):
you the most lovely thing that happened? It'll tie in. Yeah. Yeah. My neighbor hit me up yesterday
and not like neighbor in my building, but neighbor like in the other side of the neighborhood. And she
was like, are you home? I have something for you. And I was like, yeah. And so she came by. She had
baked me an entire cake decorated it with like happy birthday Nora. And it was so I haven't had a
(01:26):
birthday cake since I was like four years old. It was so sweet. And then her and I invited her
and her husband up. And so they came up and we like sat in my living room and ate birthday cake.
And it was lovely. So I'm good. I'm like, very happy. Very cool. Does your ketamine treatment today?
No, I have. I'm going every other week now. So my one isn't until Tuesday. But it's working. And I
(01:51):
know we did that episode. So I hope your listeners are listening to it. And I'll read if they have any
questions. I love talking about ketamine. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So topic today. Well, you're
turning your your birthday in a couple of days. Yeah. Turning 40, which is awesome. I'm right behind
(02:11):
jump 37. Got a couple more years. And then I'm 40 as well. I actually want to talk to you.
Our audience today about like aging gracefully and turning 40 and it being okay. I don't know for
some reason. Growing up, I always thought like, oh, someone's like 40. They're old. But then as I
got older, I got to meet other people that are older than me. I'm like, oh, they're pretty cool.
(02:35):
They're pretty chill. Like I wish I out. I hope to be as cool and like down earth as this person
when I get to their age. So yeah, we'll talk about just like societal pressure of it. And
well, we can how we can reframe like that negative thinking. I read an article on psychology today by
(02:55):
Deborah Heiser. She says that, you know, we're taught to view middle life as a point where we're
we lose aspect of ourselves aspects of ourselves. But like we we can also reframe it as like a time of
empowerment, emotional growth, and opportunity. So with that said, you talked about
going on a birthday trip. Where are you going? I'm going to Japan. Oh, fun. Okay. First time.
(03:18):
First time. And I'm going, you know, I've traveled a lot for work. I'm going for myself. Like there's no
agenda. I'm going by myself. Like it's very restful and like, yeah. This idea of like what you
just said about middle age really makes it the older I've gotten the more I feel like I'm actually
(03:41):
finding myself and coming closer and closer to the version of myself that I was before society
and politics and all these things told me not to be that person. So I it's such an interesting way
to think of midlife when people are like, oh no, I'm losing things and I'm I feel like the older I get
(04:02):
the more I've been gaining. I totally agree with that because I'll be honest. I dread it sometimes.
I get reminded on my age, on my coworkers on a bad way. But usually it's when a song comes out. Oh,
this song was popular with my high school graduation or high school prom. Like I was born. I was just like
(04:22):
I was like, 10. I'm like, oh shit. You know, like time is flying. And I dread it sometimes. Sometimes
I feel like, what am I doing? I don't know how my shit together. And then some days I'm okay with it.
Some days I'm super confident about it. But I really want to talk about it because a lot of people
are age. I feel like they're feeling that I was kind of ashamed about my age for a long time. I get
(04:46):
compliments. Oh, you look young. Thank you. But I was just by jeans. I don't I don't do anything. I
have a skincare routine. But it gets to me, you know, and I wanted to talk to somebody about it.
I did a podcast about it a few weeks ago, but hey, when you said you're turned 40 and people ask you
questions, I'm like, oh, it's going to be great for this podcast conversation. Hold that thought
(05:06):
about the you look so young thing because I have a lot of thoughts on that. But I think there's
something about like our generation in particular who we've been told that like by this age, you should
have this, this, this, and this. And it very much like individualizes so many things that are
outside of our control. And it tells us what success is rather than allowing us to define it for ourselves.
(05:33):
So then we reach these ages where we're like, oh, I don't have this thing that I've been told I
should have. And I think it creates like a weird dissonance. But the reality of it is one, we live,
we've survived what like two or three recessions, but like government isn't shit. Like it's chaotic.
(05:53):
And so to expect us to act like nothing is happening and to just follow like a career trajectory
of capitalism, like that doesn't make any sense. And then I think our we demand better out of
relationships. And so all these things that we've been told we should have don't really mean anything
to us in the same way. So I think that's sometimes the tension of age where our generation and I'm not
(06:21):
saying all of us like I'm not trying to speak for the whole all of you know. But I think there's
something there about we've like we've rejected some of the standard markers of success because we've
given ourselves space and time to decide our own because those standard markers are inaccessible to
us. Can't afford a house. I can't like all these things that we've been told we should have by
(06:46):
a certain age. So it's really like a space to question the sheds. And then that's not to mention like
what people really mean when they say, oh, you look so young. Which I'll get to if you're ready for me
to go on that rant. Yeah, we'll get into it in a bit. But there's this so back in 2005. There was this
(07:06):
song, I fall out boy and the lyrics, it resonated with me. It says in the poets are just kids who didn't make it.
20 years ago, I resonated with that for some reason. I'm like, oh, this is going to be me like when I get
older and be like, not the traditional byproduct of what I'm supposed to be for some reason I embrace that.
(07:27):
And it's that line I resonated with 2005, 2006 when I was bumping that album with my little
I piano. And it resonates with me now when I was bumping on my iPhone. And I think I knew from like a
young age, I want to be different. Not like I don't want to be different to be different, but I just kind
of knew and it feels kind of good living it out. I totally agree with you're saying like those standards
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don't mean success for everybody. The house thing I agree with relationships. I I'm not really looking
for relationship. And I feel like it would be wasting my time and other people's time if I was trying
when I really don't have it in me. When a lot of my friends, a lot of my peers are settling down
(08:12):
having families. I'm happy for them. It's like, that's great. It's just it's not me and that's okay.
Yeah.
Do you have an idea of what you wanted to be doing when you turned 40 versus what you're doing now?
I mean, honestly, honestly, honestly, and I know this is a place where like you talk about mental
(08:34):
health. So like maybe trigger warning. I don't want to live this long. I never thought I would
what 40 like no. So I know I had no idea what I'd be doing because I honestly was hoping I wouldn't
be around to see 40. And so it's it's really interesting to not just be here for 40, but to
(08:59):
feel good at 40 and to like mentally be in a good place and to feel hopeful about a future and
like in terms of career. The one thing I think a lot about is how much people would tell me, oh,
I always knew I didn't want to get married. I always knew I didn't want to have kids. I always knew
(09:20):
kind of to what you were just saying. Like I always knew I'd be a little different. And people would
tell me, oh, you'll change your mind when you get older. Oh, you'll you'll soften up when you get older.
And I have not. I have gotten if anything, I have gotten more radical, more political,
more sure that I don't want to have kids who get married. So that's like if I ever thought about
(09:44):
myself at that age, it was more in terms of like my values and my beliefs and and much less about like
the job I thought I would have. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Our previous guest also had
thoughts of suicide to the point where he wrote a will out. Like he wrote a will out. He's a musician,
(10:08):
so he said, okay, I want to give assets to my family, but he went to therapy, realized that he didn't
want to go through it, which is great. For me, I don't know. I think I thought I would still be getting
high. Like I think just using was just this great way to escape reality and escape. These feelings
that I had such as getting older. Okay, there's none of this matters as long as I'm using. And that
(10:32):
was just like my motivation. I think at one point I told myself I was really down and out. I was using
opiates pretty heavy. And I thought maybe like, what if I just like ended all? But then I realized,
oh, shit, but you can't get high if you die, man. So I'm like, oh, okay, well, I guess I got a will
(10:53):
to live, man. And now that will live has changed. But yeah, I never thought of like, I don't know,
maybe it's ADHD, but I don't think very far ahead of the future for good or bad. But I never really thought
like, what do you owe? And there's that phrase, like live fast, die young kind of thing. And also,
too, I think it's a privilege to get older because there's a lot of people that didn't.
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I have a acquaintance, rest in peace. Someone I went to high school with, we partied in the same
circles. And then I found out, I think a year ago, the past day from an overdose. So it's like, oh,
shit, that is wild. And I feel really lucky to have not succumbed to an overdose. So I got to
(11:41):
be famous for myself. It's like, hey, all this stuff's happening. You made it out right now.
And when I think about it like that, oh, okay, I should be more grateful as the post is seeing it as,
oh, fuck, I'm turning 40 soon. I'm turning 38, 39.
I mean, that also makes me think about like the ways that we define success isn't the same for everybody.
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And so like for you to be clean and sober at this age, at this point in your life. And like, I know how
like what that's meant, you know, all that stuff, like how hard you've worked. Who's to say that that's not
as important a measure of like how far you've come in life as the person with like a fancy job.
(12:30):
Or the person, right, like we have this hierarchy somehow of like what's worthwhile or valid
and what's not. And I think sometimes these are the same thing like with your previous guests who like
survived. Like those things are just as valuable as these external markers that we put on ourselves.
(12:50):
And I think they deserve much more recognition and celebration than we give them both personally,
but also culturally. It's different way of looking at things. Yeah, with the marriage thing,
yeah, I think I wrote it in a size like, oh, maybe one day, you know, I'll be like, oh, I get married
to this, my girlfriend on my space and then I'll have a little like email family. But then I realized
(13:14):
like, wait, this is just like almost a fancy. For me, it was just, yeah, it's really cool.
I do have it a girlfriend. It's really cool. Then we heard meeting my folks and everything and
like going to family parties. But realistically, it's like, no, I think I just really like the idea of it.
And I know there's a lot that goes into a relationship. And I know that I'm not built for that. I don't
(13:35):
really want to deal with that. So I'm like, I don't want to waste anybody's time for my time. So I say,
I'm not really into it, but I'm happy when other people are. So we put a pin on that, oh, you look so
young for your age comment. And I'm not going to lie. I feel good about it. But then when I really think
(13:55):
about it, I kind of question it. Talk to us about that, like the societal pressures that makes aging
a little more difficult, especially for women. I feel like with with men, it's a little easier. Oh,
dad bod's in, right? Oh, it's cool to have a dad bod. But like, is there a mom bod? Like do we, do we
accept that? Oh, yeah, I mean, like capitalism celebrates the youth. Why? Because youth is easy to
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exploit. It's easy to take advantage of. And it can produce a lot of labor. So that's one part of
it. Then the other part of it is if we can create something that people cannot control, which is aging,
we all age and we can make people feel bad about it. Then we can sell them the solutions to the thing
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that's inevitable. So there's now, so one, we want to focus on youth because it's exploitable, you
know, it's worth to our benefit. That we want to make people feel bad for getting old so we can
sell them more things. And you look at skincare and they're like skincare is self care. No, the
fuck it's not like it might make you feel good. But actual self care is wage equity or affordable
(15:07):
housing or right, but it's again, one of those circumstances where we've individualized a systemic
thing. We've erased the things that really like make aging show on people's body, stress, bad food,
lack of sleep, like all the things that again are what results of capitalism. So somehow our culture
(15:31):
has managed to make people feel so bad, but also at the same time, like make the situation worse
for aging and it's normal. Let's add to that the fact that then we don't have spaces in our culture
where older people are celebrated, are respected and coming from a culture that's very intergenerational.
(15:59):
There's historically old people have always been part of communities. As you age, it's not like you
become more and more useless. Your role changes, but it's still a role in the community. So now here,
we are here in individualist America. And as we get older, not only do we worry about how will be
perceived, we're also worried about the impact of that perception. If people see me as old,
(16:24):
they will treat me worse and worse and worse because we treat old people poorly. So all of these
things come together and then for women, it's even like doubled down because our society really
tries to tell women that how they look is their only value and how they look to a male gaze.
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And so if you're no longer attractive to that male gaze, well, and now you're no longer valuable.
So all of that comes together. So when people tell me, oh, you look good for 30. Oh, you look good
for 40. I understand the intention of it. But what you're telling me is that there's a certain way
that 40 is supposed to look that I don't look it, but I should feel bad if I did look 40.
(17:13):
If I had, and I do, I have my grades, I have my wrinkle, like, and I love that shit. I'm so,
I'm like, yes, bring it on. I'm so proud of it. But we receive all these messages to make
ourselves feel bad about it because capitalism, patriarchy, all these things benefit
from making us feel bad about growing older. Well said, I never realized the
(17:38):
capitalistic part behind it. Yeah, it makes total sense. And I think too for women, like, I've had
some friends where they're like, yeah, I feel kind of pressured to like have a kid because just like that
biological, what's that called? The ticking, whatever it's like you can have.
They call it a biological time, yeah. Yeah. And they do feel a pressure. Some
(18:00):
some of my friends' family's pressure and more about it. And some are just totally cool with
this. They're not having kids putting myself in a woman's point of view. I'm just like kind of
in shock right now thinking like, damn, I just have to walk out the door. I don't have to like
make up or do anything to probably like to have like a skin routine or anything. And it's like,
wow, like, be a lot different if I wasn't a guy. Yeah. Right. Because men are allowed to exist
(18:28):
as they are. But women are consumed by an external gaze. The other thing I think about sometimes is like the
way that trends reflect our age. And like, you know, Gen Z dresses a certain way. And this is how
millennials dress. And we've created this like fake generational war so that we can feel like we're
(18:53):
not hip enough. And then what's the solution will go dress this way. Go buy new clothes because your
old right those like skinny jeans are so millennial. And if you want to be more Gen Z, you've got to buy
this new stuff. And how much that's designed to one get us to consume, but two to keep a separate
rather than United. Yeah. Well said. I never again, I never thought of that. Yeah. I do notice it. Like
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a lot of younger kids are dressing how I dress in elementary and middle school. I'm like, what?
Like, this is back. I thought we're done with Jinko jeans. And it looks cool. I let them do their thing
because it's like, Hey, I was that age. Hey, join it. And I drove by a high school the other day. And
I was like, I had all those outfits. I think I mentioned it in a previous podcast. I was in a
(19:44):
bay for the weekend. And I saw kids lighting up for like junior and senior pronger. And I face time
my prom date the next day. I'm like, Hey, that was us like 20 years ago. You know, it's a trip. It's
like time flies. But like you said earlier, you're becoming more true to your meant to be. You want
(20:06):
to be than when you were younger. Speaking of which, are there any big life lessons you learned
in your 30s that you want to share? I think one of the biggest things I've learned is to not
negotiate myself to not like compromise what I want from other people. And I think for a long time,
(20:31):
I was like, Oh, well, this person is like nice enough or our values are aligned enough or there
are reliable enough. And I felt this disconnect because I wasn't building the kind of community I
wanted to be building. And I realized I was settling for crumbs really. And so the more I became
(20:59):
connected to myself, then the more I was like, I don't want crumbs. I rather not have anything.
Right? Because this is what we tell we if we're starving, you accept crumbs. But then you don't
ever have like a solid meal. Weird metaphor, but run with me. And I realized I was settling for
crumbs. And so, anyways, that's a weird way of saying like the more you know your worth and the more
(21:23):
you demand what you want, the more it'll show up for you. And I think that was a big lesson for me,
especially in my relationships with other people. Because now I find myself really building and being
part of the kind of communities that I've always craved. But didn't feel accessible for me when I was
like in my 20s, for example, that's that the relationship stuff I think has been a big lesson
(21:47):
for me throughout my 30s. Right. And that's pretty good. That sometimes you make compromises.
And I'm learning not to do that as much. I think I'm a people pleaser. And I'm learning how to say
no when I really don't want to do something. Because oftentimes, maybe it's my culture too, where it's like
(22:07):
you should do it to be nice. Or this person's nice to you should be my favorite. And I think
if you want to, yeah. But oftentimes I find myself saying yes when I don't want to. And I build the
resentment. And at the end of the day, it's not really their fault. It's my fault. So I built a
(22:27):
resentment for myself. I would you say, yeah, like the heck. So yeah, I agree with that. And for me,
it's just being kinder to myself. I think for the longest time, I beat myself up for mistakes.
Or the past, I still do, but I'm being more mindful about it. And just
(22:53):
being okay. I always felt like never enough. I didn't do enough. And I think in my 30s, when I
realized like, okay, I want to stop using a lot of this came to mind. Before I was just
told it's at high, let's forget. Let's run away from my feelings. Let's do this as that. Then when
(23:14):
that stopped and I continued to not use a lot of this clarity came to mind.
So yeah, that was a big lesson for me. Just be kinder to yourself. I know it's easier than
some days, but for me, that's big. It's now it's like, it's okay. If I make a mistake, yeah,
(23:35):
beat myself up about it, but not as much as I used to. And just kind of move on. It's being
kinder to myself. And I feel like I'm less stressed out, less dangerous about things.
There's something about like I think I had to learn how to be human. Like it's okay to be imperfect.
It's okay to make mistakes. I'm not a mind reader. I can't anticipate what other people need or want.
(23:59):
And I had a therapist, excuse me, I had a therapist tell me, you teach people how to treat you.
And I was like, what? That sounds so victim blaming. She's like, no, no, no. Like how you treat
yourself is how other people treat you. What you allow other people to do is what they will do.
(24:22):
And so this idea of like, why would I be mean to myself if I wouldn't accept that from other people?
Why would I, and so I totally understand what you're saying. Because sometimes I was like, dang,
I was really rough on myself. Why? I wouldn't accept that from other people. Why do I allow myself to it?
(24:43):
And for me, journaling was really helpful in making that change. I started writing little love letters to myself.
And I was like, oh, okay, this helps.
Yeah, definitely. I'm glad that journaling works for you. I started journaling now. I use it now
when I'm frustrated. I just journal like how I'm feeling or what happened. It doesn't make it
(25:06):
okay right away, but just writing it out for some reason and just kind of like when I put on paper on my phone.
I feel a little better. I processed it to put my roded down. Sometimes I have these thoughts in my head,
but a lot of times I have so many thoughts I don't get to really get to like,
figure out which one's good or which one's not, but when I put it down, okay, I felt this way.
(25:28):
And then usually I look at my phone maybe like a couple hours later, I feel a little better about it.
Also too, how do we approach aging in a more positive light?
Again, we talked about how it's like we dread it and we see this loss. Because for me, I feel like
what I think I really miss about it all is being able to duck responsibilities.
(25:52):
I think when I was younger using, I was cool. I can say fuck it, but now I'm 37. I really can't
do that as much. I mean, I can. I just know the consequences, but I think that's what I really miss
about being younger is being able to do that. I keep looking back. Oh, remember when you did this,
(26:17):
did that. I think of all the fun times and most of my fun times was under the influence. So now,
why don't do that? It's like, man, I feel like I'm only going to different life. And I had a
better life when I was doing all that, but realistically I didn't. And so for me sometimes,
Asian is like, what am I going to do now? A lot of times I just stay home. But like, how do we approach
(26:42):
aging in a healthier way? I think we have response in an intergenerational community.
Every one of all ages has responsibilities. Whether you meet those responsibilities or not
is a different question. But I think what you're talking about is like, how do we have fun as we
(27:04):
get older? Maybe. And I, part of that is like, we have to be intentional about it. As you get older,
like, are you making time for community? Are you playing? Are you learning new things? Like,
the things that we used to do when we were younger, the healthy ones, not the unhealthy ones. But like,
(27:24):
part of like our cultural conditioning is we stop doing those things because we have to do the
adulting of things. And I think it's about being intentional about allowing space for play,
for creativity, for connect, like, you have to be intentional in how you build your life. And I
(27:45):
think that's one of the things that we think that life just happens. And we don't think about it
consciously. We're like, okay, now I get a job. Now I date someone. Now I get married. And this is
what I do until I die. And I don't think that's fulfilling way to approach it. And so for
whether or not that's what you want, the act of being thoughtful and intentional and like,
(28:08):
really curating your life, I think that makes a big difference in aging. I think the other thing is
seeing older people who are living the kind of life you want to live. Right? Like for me,
growing up, I saw my grandma and her siblings and they were all older women. And now I'm like,
(28:30):
dang, they must not have even been that old. But in my mind, they were like ancient. And all they
had were like, their kids to live for. And that's what I thought aging was. And then I started to see
different kinds of elders who were active and who were doing things. And I'm like, okay,
I can decide how I want to be. And I think that's the other part is we have
(28:54):
agency over how we age to a certain degree, right? Like the body's going to do what the body's
going to do. But we have agency over the life that we create for ourselves. And I think that makes
aging easier. Also, honestly, go to therapy. Like if you can heal the shit now, so you don't have to
(29:17):
deal with it when you're 70 or 80. Oh my goodness, it changes everything. And especially like
we have, you know, like, yeah, our generation really has no excuses not to be getting some kind
of mental health support. Not to say that there's not barriers. But I think those things make it
(29:39):
really different how we grow old versus how I think the generations before us did.
Like I totally agree 100% that are people I know in my generation let the shit on the younger generation.
But what I like about younger generation is they're able to express their feelings more. They know
more about mental health and more willing to get therapy. I didn't start doing therapy until I was in
(30:03):
my mid 30s. And it's helping so much. And just unlearning all the bad things, doing what it's from
and now can definitely make you have like a better audio of life down the road. And like you said,
there's barriers, which is unfortunate, but there's like resources out there. I just wish therapy
(30:26):
is more accessible. I feel like a lot of the world problems would be solved. So these problems
would be solved if there's more therapy and it's more accessible. I won't say it for folks who are
listening. I know it's also like if you're depressed finding the capacity or the spoons to then find
a therapist, sometimes you just don't have it or if you're anxious or if you're like going through
(30:49):
stuff. And so I will always help people find like therapeutic services if they need it. Just
reach out to me. Tell me you heard me on the podcast and I'll do my best to connect you to resources.
Because I think it's one of those things that sometimes we need community support around. And
(31:09):
you know, it's not always the easiest thing to access. So if folks are listening and you have
interest in findings therapy, reach out to me and I will help you find that if that feels like
too much for you to do on your own. Correct. If I remember correctly, you helped me out. I remember
(31:30):
I reached out to you and you gave me like the role and one about it. Okay, this is what you might
mean. I forgot the exact details but I do remember reaching out to you about it. You also told me
about a 12 step program. And I remember my last day of using it. Okay, I should check out
Nora's advice again and get some help. And here I am still clean. And like you said, yeah,
(31:56):
sometimes it's difficult to find that resource. That's great that you are volunteering for anybody who
might be interested. And also to, if you can't do therapy, I'll talk to somebody about it.
I think that helps. I don't know for my generation, especially that I had a hard time telling other
people what was wrong with me or how it's feeling. Because I felt like I was being a burden.
(32:19):
Because most of my friends have like a family of their own. And I was like, I don't want to bother them.
But then I said, no, no, actually reach out to us instead of like doing your other unhealthy coping
mechanism. I think that is about it. Thank you. I really needed this talk. I needed this conversation.
Because again, like I said some days, I really struggle with it. And it's cool to know that I'm not alone.
(32:42):
Yeah. Yeah. You're not alone. You're not alone. Getting old is great.
Thank you so much for your time. No pleasure. Thank you for having me again.
Awesome. Well, enjoy the rest of your weekend and happy early birthday.
Thank you. And take care.
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