November 1, 2024 • 27 mins
Leah, the founder and CEO of Pineapple Support, discusses her journey in the adult industry and the importance of mental health support for sex workers. She highlights the stigma faced by individuals in this field and how it impacts their mental health. Leah elaborates on the various services provided by Pineapple Support, including therapy, support groups, and educational resources aimed at breaking down stigma. The conversation also touches on the challenges of social media and the need for community support to ensure the wellbeing of those in the adult industry.
Chapters:
(00:00) Introduction to Pineapple Support and Leah's Journey
(07:31) The Impact of Stigma on Sex Workers' Mental Health
(14:29) Pineapple Support's Services and Community Initiatives
(20:34) Navigating Online Abuse and Mental Health Strategies
(25:27) The Importance of Community Support and Donations
Pineapple Support IG
Pineapple Support Linktree
Follow Me on Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/thevoncastshow/
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https://www.tiktok.com/@wowshibavon
https://www.iamvon.net/
Chapters:
(00:00) Introduction to Pineapple Support and Leah's Journey
(07:31) The Impact of Stigma on Sex Workers' Mental Health
(14:29) Pineapple Support's Services and Community Initiatives
(20:34) Navigating Online Abuse and Mental Health Strategies
(25:27) The Importance of Community Support and Donations
Pineapple Support IG
Pineapple Support Linktree
Follow Me on Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/thevoncastshow/
https://www.instagram.com/shibavon/
https://www.tiktok.com/@wowshibavon
https://www.iamvon.net/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there! My name is Vaughn and this is the Vaughncast Show. This is a podcast that focuses on
(00:08):
mental health, breaking societal stigmas, harm reduction, addiction and recovery. If you like what
you hear, subscribe and leave a review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Also, follow the podcast
Instagram @thevoncastshow. Write post video content from the show. All right, let's get into today's
(00:34):
episode. Welcome to the Vaughncast Show. Hope you are doing well today. Today I got Leah on the
podcast. How are you doing today? I'm doing really well. How are you doing? Well, so Leah is the
founder and CEO of Pineapple Support, which is a free support and therapy service for all persons
working in the online adult industry. Yeah, so thank you for being with me today. I really
(00:59):
appreciate it. So let's get into it. Talk to us about your work within the adult industry. How did
you end up doing that? It was a very organic process, to be honest. I started, I was always very
interested by sex growing up. And so when I turned 18, I started dancing at one of these
(01:25):
reclubs in town. And it just all kind of went from there, really. I dance for a while, then dip
down the industry, then dip back into the BDSM community, as in and out of that for a while,
and then started an online store selling BDSM equipment. And that's when I started modeling to try
(01:50):
and fund myself as well, because anyone knows that starting a business is very difficult
financially. So that seemed like a great way to use my hobbies as an income. So I started modeling and
then did some, so I fetish modeling, then did some dominatrix work, and then started making clips
(02:12):
and putting those on trips for sale and try to try to come in bit, it was really, really tough actually.
And that was during the time when I was modeling and doing content creation that I was attending
the Expos Awards in LA, and found out about the suicides and the lack of support in the industry. And
(02:36):
that was really the moment when I realized that something needed to be done, and that just felt
right to be me. It was my calling. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. That's a very
full process, organic process, and yeah, it's really unfortunate with what happened when you saw
(02:59):
the suicides and what not happening within the adult industry. My podcast is about mental health
and reaching societal stigma, and I figured, hey, what you do kind of checks all the boxes.
Obviously, I like the adult industry from stuff that I watch when I was younger and to now.
And then it's so cool. Got a podcast. I got some people on that I watch on a fan of, and I got to see
(03:23):
a different, you know, got to see a different side of your lives. I mean, you only see one thing on
camera, but it's really cool to have a conversation with them and talk to them and really humanize
sex workers. There's more to people on camera than what you see. They have lives, they have stories,
hobbies, so that's my goal. Real humans. Yeah. Who would have thought, right? And it's kind of
(03:50):
trippy because growing up when I watched these videos, I would see the address, oh, Chattano, California,
or like Northridge. And now I live there now, like in the San Fernando Valley, so it's pretty,
it's like a full circle. You've followed your destination to the Porn Valley. Yeah. Yeah.
(04:11):
So, like how, so talk to us about some of the stigma sex workers deal with and how it impacts
their mental health from what you've seen. I mean, you know, you just described quite a big part of
that there, you know, the fact that having conversations and realizing that they're real people, I think,
(04:31):
a lot of the time consumers don't view the content creators as real people, you know? That's just
a character on screen that they can say what they want to through Twitter because all the creators
are really accessible now. You know, used to be 20 years ago before social media was a big thing.
(04:54):
That, you know, you could buy the DVD or watch the stream online, but you didn't really have that
direct access. And that's, that's made a big impact. You know, you got the people on live cam that
as they're working, they're seeing abuse coming through and trying to keep on that smile and trying
(05:17):
to entertain the other viewers that are there. And, you know, doxing, stalkers, finding out where
people are, giving information to their family, giving information out publicly. That's scary.
And that's something that a lot of creators worry about at a daily basis.
You know, even when they're coming to us for therapy services, they're nervous to input their
(05:43):
personal details, which of course we need because we're providing therapy services. But, you know,
even coming to a trusted resource, it's still that fear there. And then on top of all of that is
the stigma. The main reason, the only reason that pan-apples support exists is because of the stigma.
If the world is stigma towards sex work, then sex workers wouldn't need their own charity for
(06:08):
mental health services. And that stigma stretches so far. I don't think people realize, you know,
even a bank account gets closed down for no reason. This is legal work. People are paying their taxes.
And their accounts get closed down. They can have their Airbnb account shut down. The hotels
(06:30):
account shut down. The Uber drivers are told that if they success, suspect somebody
of being a sex worker, they should report them and report the address. I mean, it just, it goes on
and on and on. And people don't realize that content creators, sex workers are dealing with all of
this, all of the time. And, you know, it's a way, we're trying to break down the stigma, trying to
(06:55):
take away the shame, but it's really difficult to actually do that to put yourself out there when
it's not just some nobody you've passed in the street that's throwing their opinion on you.
It's big corporations, it's big companies that affect your day to day living.
And, you know, we have on top of all of this, you've got
(07:20):
therapists, if they haven't really been trained in sex work or they're not aware of the industry,
people go and seek therapy after having all the shame projected on them for however long
from society. And they're going to find speech with therapists and therapists, this is the
mobile, it's probably because of your job. It's, you know, it's like the icing on the cake, isn't it?
(07:44):
Oh well, it's just been confirmed by a trust professional that actually it is me, it's my fault
because of my chosen career. And, same goes to doctors, gynecologists, all the things that you need
to be able to access and that project in shame onto you. You also have the isolation
(08:06):
because of the stigma and the shame, again, people withdraw from spending time with people that
are not in the industry and a lot of folks don't have that access to other industry people.
They withdraw from spending time with their family if their family doesn't know,
(08:26):
you know, they may have made up a job, what you do, well, I'm an accountant, I don't know.
And then, funny investor, asking what they did, how was your day? What have you been up to? Tell me
about the company you work for. And telling life to life to life, the life just gets really tiring
and people end up putting away from their family. So you've lost that contact as well.
(08:46):
Think about people that have children, maybe they know taken, but that's, if you move to a new city
or a new town, if you've got kids, that's how you make friends, isn't it? You know, you take the kids to
school, there's all the other parents there. It's easy peasy, you've got parents meetings, you've got
whatever it's called PTA. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't tell them what you do. And they want to know how
(09:10):
you've got a knife designer handbag or whatever. This just is constant questions. So people end up
putting away from being in company or making friends or just having to explain themselves,
but it just perpetuates this feeling of loneliness.
Yeah. And I'm a recovering addict. I can't put things, but a lot of times the solution to that
(09:34):
becomes drugs and alcohol. You know, it, like you said, isolation, I live by a fire station. That was
a fire station. Yeah. So, yeah, I can see that isolation, I want to feel good. I want to get away
what becomes maybe something recreational. So I just become a habit. And I've definitely heard of
(09:57):
people in the industry overdosing more often than I like to say, just, oh, so and so overdosed.
Oh, wow. You know, and like, yeah, it's just really taxing, I can imagine. I talk to somebody who's
a makeup artist for people in the industry. And she said that, yeah, she has clients who their
(10:18):
landlords wouldn't like pick them out because they found out what they do. And I think what's interesting
is that there's all this shame in everything, but people, the same people that will shame them still
watch their content. That's what kind of gets to me. It's kind of like, well, you, you, I'll be
(10:39):
watched their stuff. But then you turn around and you shame them. So it's a very interesting dynamic.
There's a projection, you know, why are you shaming them? Why do you feel this way? And it almost
always boils back down to they are ashamed of what they are doing. And they need to project that
(10:59):
shame onto somebody to make them feel better. And yeah, it must be really difficult. You know,
deal with that. So what types of services does an apple support serve provide?
We provide far too many services now. I just want to think, did you know what I'm not going to
(11:24):
for this? Yeah, we started off just doing the one on one therapy and providing webinars and
some educational resources because I believe that the only way we're going to be able to break down
the stigma is by educating the masses. And it's going to be a slow process. But
(11:48):
if I'm part of that process, then that's, that's great. Then we added support groups onto there
because we needed to find a way to provide care to more people for, well, on the small budget that
we have because, you know, we don't have a lot of money. The industry is small. We only have a few
companies that are able to donate to us. So we provide support groups as well. We also have
(12:13):
peer-to-peer support. So that's text chat and go online and speak with the volunteer.
We are adding AI mental health support, which is going to be the same as the peer-to-peer. It's not
what's the word I'm moving for. It's not to use instead of therapy. It's not going to take away that one
(12:38):
and one human contact, human approach. But for someone that just needs to speak straight away
to get some kind of calming advice, then it's, it's a really fantastic resource. So I just
worded it at the moment. We also do workshops. So we try and give people experience with holistic
therapies as well like breath works, yoga,
(13:00):
because although we don't provide those as one of our resources, I think it's really great
for people to know that they're out there. We do in-person wellness for treats and that's a lot
of the kind of holistic stuff that we do there's an L.A. every year and why we do some more.
We've started a new, a new resource called Spill the Tea, which is a way that we hope to
(13:26):
provide community and support in areas where accessing mental health care is still very
stigmatised. So kind of sort of the Eastern European countries, Romania, we're going to start in
Colombia next month, maybe even in Japan, I'm hoping in Hungary. So it's going to be more of an
(13:48):
in-person community get together and just a way to help alleviate some of that isolation, which
I think is going to be a huge, a huge help to a lot of people. And we've also started working with
our sponsors to provide corporate training. The first point of contact that creators have is the
(14:09):
platforms that they're on with their customer service. It's the model trainers. So if we can give
them the tools and the skills to either diffuse a situation or correctly handle a situation
and point them in the right direction for a therapist, then I believe that that's going to be
(14:31):
the foundation for helping support as well. And a great way that we can help hundreds of
no thousands of creators all at once. I think that's everything. Yeah, no, that was very extensive,
a lot of stuff. I think that's great. I really do like the part where you're accessing,
you're helping people access mental health, which not as acceptable or accessible. That's really
(14:56):
cool. So what would you tell someone like an online creator who is getting like, I don't know,
getting really views, like what would you tell them who just let people like putting them down?
What would you tell them if they went to you and like, hey, I'm having a bad day. So this is
happening. But where are some things you could say they encourage them to keep going?
(15:19):
I am not a therapist. I think it's really important for content creators and anyone that's running
their own business to take a break. And we forget to do this. And when it's your business,
you feel like if we take that break, you're losing money. But if you don't take that break,
(15:42):
you're going to be losing your health with that physical or mental. You have to get outside,
you have to do things. You have to not look at your computer, maybe try and keep off social media
for a bit. I am terrible at scrolling on my phone. Doom scrolling. But yeah, it's it,
social media is an unpleasant place a lot of the time. And removing yourself from that and
(16:15):
spending time with people who love you and care for you and remembering who you are outside of
the industry is huge. You know, the lines become so blurred when you're playing a character
all the time. And so because you don't have that break from work, you're always playing that
character on on your phone or on the computer or whatever else. And you see a lot of people
(16:42):
kind of get started to become that person and lose themselves and lose their,
some things that should be kept personal, you know, keep some things for you. Everything doesn't
need to be out there. You have to have that little something that's yours. You just keep for you.
(17:04):
You don't have to share with anyone. You don't your fans don't need to know about it.
Yeah, I think that's very important when you are particularly starting out in the industry when
you want to put your all in and say what any business, the first day it's like breaks.
(17:25):
Yeah, no, thank you for that. That makes total sense. And definitely, social media can be great
for promotion. But at the same time, it is a very toxic place. I have friends that do this line of
work and I all together pretty much I stopped going on Twitter because I would see their comments on
their, on their posts. It's just so degrading. It's like, why are you, you know, like, it's just,
(17:51):
it's just really, it's really sad. I want to ignore when it's coming at you as well. You
even want to shout back or the eventually doesn't matter how we, how thick skinned you are. It's
like pounds, you know, but that long it's. Yeah, in fact, yeah, and I can't imagine what they're going
(18:11):
through because I, you know, I'm looking at it and people are really like disrespecting them,
all this stuff. And it's just, it's difficult, you know, people, these are human beings and they're
just expressing themselves in a different way. It's just really unfortunate and a lot of friends,
a couple of friends I know they, they stop all together because they do online creation. They feel like
(18:34):
that, you know, they're not, they're like, they say that it's very anxious, anxious work because you're
on your phone all the time checking messages and dealing with negativity. People are trying to
have gold prices. People are going to box you sending very like unpleasant and threatening messages.
And I get upset if you don't reply fast enough as well. It's like, I'm only one person. Yeah.
(18:58):
Yeah, managing expectations was one of the creators that we had on a panel. So I'm managing
expectations with clients and she was saying that she never responds to them before 24 hours so that
(19:21):
they always know that's what's going to happen. They don't get quick fire messages and then suddenly
there's a break. It's like, okay, that's, that's good. I see that. Yeah. And it's, I think that's
a great way to do that to manage expectations. Take breaks like you were saying, yeah, I just dealing
(19:42):
with that, you know, and it's difficult. You said because these aren't just regular problems.
These are like very new ones problems in a specific career that I can see if he goes somewhere like,
you know, like a therapist who's not educated with sex work, they might say, well, you're the problem.
I think and I can see the, you said, the spiraling and just, oh, it's my fault. Listen to that.
(20:04):
And it just also really scares me the doxing thing. There's definitely people like doxing people
in a dick with it. And I like what you said too about playing a character. I feel like for the most
part, people consuming this content, they think, oh, this is this person 24/7, you know, but they're
(20:24):
just playing a character to like some sort of fantasy that people like, but people think it's 24/7.
It's all the time. When you see an actor on TV that's in a sitcom, or whatever, always plays a bad
guy and like, oh, he must be an absolute asshole. Could be this sweetest person that you,
(20:44):
that you meet, but people already have that concept in the head and it goes the same in the industry,
I think. You know, I think it's weird because for some reason, people can differentiate actors
in their real lives. Like, you wouldn't go to Kiana Reeves. Oh, you're trying to wake or get the matrix.
I mean, yeah, you would to degree. It's like, no, this is Kiana Reeves. You know, or the guy
(21:07):
playing Freddie Krueger, oh, is Freddie Krueger. No, it's the guy playing Freddie Krueger. People have
that can distinct that the difference between, oh, this is a movie set. This is real life. But for some
reason, in adult content and all that, like, they think, oh, this is dumb 24/7. You know, I think that,
I don't know why that is. It's weird, but people can't differentiate that, but they can differentiate
(21:31):
movies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's interesting. The fantasy part maybe. I mean, yeah, you want to
get kind of fully involved in a movie. But when you're watching porn or you're talking to
one of your favorite content creators, it's fantasy. So you really want that to be real. But maybe that
(21:54):
has to be something to do with it. Yeah. I think it does. And I think when they deviates from your fantasy,
it goes like, oh, it's the problem with them kind of thing. Because I worked in like a retail place.
And I definitely have seen adult content creators walking the store. I'm like, super sure.
(22:15):
Shy. And then I sometimes, for I've come up to them, I mean, like the second time, the first
time, I was like, I was at them kind of thing. Oh, hey, you know, by the way, like a big friend of your work,
I don't like an answer or anything. Oh, thank you so much. It's in that. And they're super cool.
And it's just, yeah, it's just regular people. I definitely want to put the regular people. These
are people's day jobs. This is their version of nine to five or something supplement their income.
(22:38):
And also, too, I just, it really upsets me when a lot of people say, oh, sex workers are lazy.
People and only fans are lazy. All they do is post pictures and, you know, our videos and they get a
bunch of money, but that's so simplified. It's definitely not true. It is hard work. I mean, yeah,
some people do that and they don't make much money. But if you want to make serious money from this
(22:59):
industry, then you work damn hard. You are a business. You have to keep not only a year running a
business, but you're having to keep that business in shape and looking good and on point. And, you know,
a lot of people do have teams. You know, it's the top models will have a full team behind them.
(23:20):
And a lot of one of the things that I recommend to everyone as soon as I can afford it is to get
social media manager. Don't even look at that shit. It's just to do all of it for you.
Because it is especially Twitter or X whatever. It's just so toxic like you said.
To shame. It really is. And that's smart to get a social media manager. I didn't realize
(23:47):
until later on that, oh, women are only fans have some women are only fans, some people are only
fans. They have managers or they have people that answer their their messages. And that's pretty
smart on their part is just in general, like content creators, like artists, right? Like Katie Perry,
I doubt she's like runs her whole Instagram because I don't know me personally. I mean, I make
(24:09):
music and podcasts. I don't know what I would do if I woke up to like hundreds of DMs or just in general,
like see a bunch of comments on something, a bunch of likes. Personally, me, I, you know, especially if
it's a lot of negative stuff, maybe one or two is cool, but you see a bunch of negative things.
That can really affect my ability to create content, great music and podcast.
(24:33):
You know, I mean, the same thing goes for adult content creators, you know, just
facing all these things is just really smart to maybe get someone to deal with that if they're able to.
Remove that from your stress. I had an experience personally where it blew up on Twitter and I just felt
so I could even look at Twitter. I couldn't even open Twitter and felt so anxious.
(24:58):
I know what was going to be up there next who's going to be saying what I think it took about a month
for me to get back online. And even now, I don't like opening Twitter. It gives me like
just feelings of anxiety. Same here. Same here. 100%. I only do it sometimes like post something.
(25:21):
One to know I like to podcast episode for someone who's active on Twitter or ever friends always on
Twitter. But man, I get I swear, it will take 30 seconds for me to scroll and see something I really
don't like. Something you really vulgar or something really offensive towards a group of people or
like they're like they're all that stuff. And it's like wow, this is so draining. And it makes me yeah,
(25:43):
I don't really go on it. I go on threads more, but still it's just really upsetting. And I think that's
why going back to I think it's great. There is pineapple support. I think definitely there is a need
for mental health support for people in that line of work. And I want to thank you for facilitating
that, having that starting that nonprofit. Thank you. And I would like everyone to remember that just
(26:09):
because we've been around for a while now, doesn't mean that we're here permanently. We need your support.
We can't we cannot continue without the contribution of the community and the contribution of the
fans and all the people that want the posters to remain being healthy and alive and happy. It's so
(26:32):
important that we work together to do this. You know, we we work really hard. We work with a lot of
the top companies in the adult space. But this is a growing issue, but as more people know about
pineapple support, as the industry gets larger, you know, there was something like 20,000 people
(26:52):
signed up to only fans a day during the pandemic. This industry grows. Our company grows,
not as gross and there's always going to be more and more people that need mental health care.
So please donate. Got it. So where can we find this online, the Instagram handle and all that?
How do we donate? Yeah, you can go to pineapplesupport.org and you'll see the donate button up in the top.
(27:17):
Or social medias are at pineapple ysw, which stands for your safe word.
And that's my pineapple came about. Awesome. I also like pineapple on pizza. I don't know about you.
I do. It's controversial, but I'm down. Yeah, me too. I love it. Well, thank you, Leah. I really
(27:38):
appreciate your time for doing this podcast.
Hey there! My name is Vaughn and this is the Vaughncast Show. This is a podcast that focuses on
(00:08):
mental health, breaking societal stigmas, harm reduction, addiction and recovery. If you like what
you hear, subscribe and leave a review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Also, follow the podcast
Instagram @thevoncastshow. Write post video content from the show. All right, let's get into today's
(00:34):
episode. Welcome to the Vaughncast Show. Hope you are doing well today. Today I got Leah on the
podcast. How are you doing today? I'm doing really well. How are you doing? Well, so Leah is the
founder and CEO of Pineapple Support, which is a free support and therapy service for all persons
working in the online adult industry. Yeah, so thank you for being with me today. I really
(00:59):
appreciate it. So let's get into it. Talk to us about your work within the adult industry. How did
you end up doing that? It was a very organic process, to be honest. I started, I was always very
interested by sex growing up. And so when I turned 18, I started dancing at one of these
(01:25):
reclubs in town. And it just all kind of went from there, really. I dance for a while, then dip
down the industry, then dip back into the BDSM community, as in and out of that for a while,
and then started an online store selling BDSM equipment. And that's when I started modeling to try
(01:50):
and fund myself as well, because anyone knows that starting a business is very difficult
financially. So that seemed like a great way to use my hobbies as an income. So I started modeling and
then did some, so I fetish modeling, then did some dominatrix work, and then started making clips
(02:12):
and putting those on trips for sale and try to try to come in bit, it was really, really tough actually.
And that was during the time when I was modeling and doing content creation that I was attending
the Expos Awards in LA, and found out about the suicides and the lack of support in the industry. And
(02:36):
that was really the moment when I realized that something needed to be done, and that just felt
right to be me. It was my calling. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. That's a very
full process, organic process, and yeah, it's really unfortunate with what happened when you saw
(02:59):
the suicides and what not happening within the adult industry. My podcast is about mental health
and reaching societal stigma, and I figured, hey, what you do kind of checks all the boxes.
Obviously, I like the adult industry from stuff that I watch when I was younger and to now.
And then it's so cool. Got a podcast. I got some people on that I watch on a fan of, and I got to see
(03:23):
a different, you know, got to see a different side of your lives. I mean, you only see one thing on
camera, but it's really cool to have a conversation with them and talk to them and really humanize
sex workers. There's more to people on camera than what you see. They have lives, they have stories,
hobbies, so that's my goal. Real humans. Yeah. Who would have thought, right? And it's kind of
(03:50):
trippy because growing up when I watched these videos, I would see the address, oh, Chattano, California,
or like Northridge. And now I live there now, like in the San Fernando Valley, so it's pretty,
it's like a full circle. You've followed your destination to the Porn Valley. Yeah. Yeah.
(04:11):
So, like how, so talk to us about some of the stigma sex workers deal with and how it impacts
their mental health from what you've seen. I mean, you know, you just described quite a big part of
that there, you know, the fact that having conversations and realizing that they're real people, I think,
(04:31):
a lot of the time consumers don't view the content creators as real people, you know? That's just
a character on screen that they can say what they want to through Twitter because all the creators
are really accessible now. You know, used to be 20 years ago before social media was a big thing.
(04:54):
That, you know, you could buy the DVD or watch the stream online, but you didn't really have that
direct access. And that's, that's made a big impact. You know, you got the people on live cam that
as they're working, they're seeing abuse coming through and trying to keep on that smile and trying
(05:17):
to entertain the other viewers that are there. And, you know, doxing, stalkers, finding out where
people are, giving information to their family, giving information out publicly. That's scary.
And that's something that a lot of creators worry about at a daily basis.
You know, even when they're coming to us for therapy services, they're nervous to input their
(05:43):
personal details, which of course we need because we're providing therapy services. But, you know,
even coming to a trusted resource, it's still that fear there. And then on top of all of that is
the stigma. The main reason, the only reason that pan-apples support exists is because of the stigma.
If the world is stigma towards sex work, then sex workers wouldn't need their own charity for
(06:08):
mental health services. And that stigma stretches so far. I don't think people realize, you know,
even a bank account gets closed down for no reason. This is legal work. People are paying their taxes.
And their accounts get closed down. They can have their Airbnb account shut down. The hotels
(06:30):
account shut down. The Uber drivers are told that if they success, suspect somebody
of being a sex worker, they should report them and report the address. I mean, it just, it goes on
and on and on. And people don't realize that content creators, sex workers are dealing with all of
this, all of the time. And, you know, it's a way, we're trying to break down the stigma, trying to
(06:55):
take away the shame, but it's really difficult to actually do that to put yourself out there when
it's not just some nobody you've passed in the street that's throwing their opinion on you.
It's big corporations, it's big companies that affect your day to day living.
And, you know, we have on top of all of this, you've got
(07:20):
therapists, if they haven't really been trained in sex work or they're not aware of the industry,
people go and seek therapy after having all the shame projected on them for however long
from society. And they're going to find speech with therapists and therapists, this is the
mobile, it's probably because of your job. It's, you know, it's like the icing on the cake, isn't it?
(07:44):
Oh well, it's just been confirmed by a trust professional that actually it is me, it's my fault
because of my chosen career. And, same goes to doctors, gynecologists, all the things that you need
to be able to access and that project in shame onto you. You also have the isolation
(08:06):
because of the stigma and the shame, again, people withdraw from spending time with people that
are not in the industry and a lot of folks don't have that access to other industry people.
They withdraw from spending time with their family if their family doesn't know,
(08:26):
you know, they may have made up a job, what you do, well, I'm an accountant, I don't know.
And then, funny investor, asking what they did, how was your day? What have you been up to? Tell me
about the company you work for. And telling life to life to life, the life just gets really tiring
and people end up putting away from their family. So you've lost that contact as well.
(08:46):
Think about people that have children, maybe they know taken, but that's, if you move to a new city
or a new town, if you've got kids, that's how you make friends, isn't it? You know, you take the kids to
school, there's all the other parents there. It's easy peasy, you've got parents meetings, you've got
whatever it's called PTA. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't tell them what you do. And they want to know how
(09:10):
you've got a knife designer handbag or whatever. This just is constant questions. So people end up
putting away from being in company or making friends or just having to explain themselves,
but it just perpetuates this feeling of loneliness.
Yeah. And I'm a recovering addict. I can't put things, but a lot of times the solution to that
(09:34):
becomes drugs and alcohol. You know, it, like you said, isolation, I live by a fire station. That was
a fire station. Yeah. So, yeah, I can see that isolation, I want to feel good. I want to get away
what becomes maybe something recreational. So I just become a habit. And I've definitely heard of
(09:57):
people in the industry overdosing more often than I like to say, just, oh, so and so overdosed.
Oh, wow. You know, and like, yeah, it's just really taxing, I can imagine. I talk to somebody who's
a makeup artist for people in the industry. And she said that, yeah, she has clients who their
(10:18):
landlords wouldn't like pick them out because they found out what they do. And I think what's interesting
is that there's all this shame in everything, but people, the same people that will shame them still
watch their content. That's what kind of gets to me. It's kind of like, well, you, you, I'll be
(10:39):
watched their stuff. But then you turn around and you shame them. So it's a very interesting dynamic.
There's a projection, you know, why are you shaming them? Why do you feel this way? And it almost
always boils back down to they are ashamed of what they are doing. And they need to project that
(10:59):
shame onto somebody to make them feel better. And yeah, it must be really difficult. You know,
deal with that. So what types of services does an apple support serve provide?
We provide far too many services now. I just want to think, did you know what I'm not going to
(11:24):
for this? Yeah, we started off just doing the one on one therapy and providing webinars and
some educational resources because I believe that the only way we're going to be able to break down
the stigma is by educating the masses. And it's going to be a slow process. But
(11:48):
if I'm part of that process, then that's, that's great. Then we added support groups onto there
because we needed to find a way to provide care to more people for, well, on the small budget that
we have because, you know, we don't have a lot of money. The industry is small. We only have a few
companies that are able to donate to us. So we provide support groups as well. We also have
(12:13):
peer-to-peer support. So that's text chat and go online and speak with the volunteer.
We are adding AI mental health support, which is going to be the same as the peer-to-peer. It's not
what's the word I'm moving for. It's not to use instead of therapy. It's not going to take away that one
(12:38):
and one human contact, human approach. But for someone that just needs to speak straight away
to get some kind of calming advice, then it's, it's a really fantastic resource. So I just
worded it at the moment. We also do workshops. So we try and give people experience with holistic
therapies as well like breath works, yoga,
(13:00):
because although we don't provide those as one of our resources, I think it's really great
for people to know that they're out there. We do in-person wellness for treats and that's a lot
of the kind of holistic stuff that we do there's an L.A. every year and why we do some more.
We've started a new, a new resource called Spill the Tea, which is a way that we hope to
(13:26):
provide community and support in areas where accessing mental health care is still very
stigmatised. So kind of sort of the Eastern European countries, Romania, we're going to start in
Colombia next month, maybe even in Japan, I'm hoping in Hungary. So it's going to be more of an
(13:48):
in-person community get together and just a way to help alleviate some of that isolation, which
I think is going to be a huge, a huge help to a lot of people. And we've also started working with
our sponsors to provide corporate training. The first point of contact that creators have is the
(14:09):
platforms that they're on with their customer service. It's the model trainers. So if we can give
them the tools and the skills to either diffuse a situation or correctly handle a situation
and point them in the right direction for a therapist, then I believe that that's going to be
(14:31):
the foundation for helping support as well. And a great way that we can help hundreds of
no thousands of creators all at once. I think that's everything. Yeah, no, that was very extensive,
a lot of stuff. I think that's great. I really do like the part where you're accessing,
you're helping people access mental health, which not as acceptable or accessible. That's really
(14:56):
cool. So what would you tell someone like an online creator who is getting like, I don't know,
getting really views, like what would you tell them who just let people like putting them down?
What would you tell them if they went to you and like, hey, I'm having a bad day. So this is
happening. But where are some things you could say they encourage them to keep going?
(15:19):
I am not a therapist. I think it's really important for content creators and anyone that's running
their own business to take a break. And we forget to do this. And when it's your business,
you feel like if we take that break, you're losing money. But if you don't take that break,
(15:42):
you're going to be losing your health with that physical or mental. You have to get outside,
you have to do things. You have to not look at your computer, maybe try and keep off social media
for a bit. I am terrible at scrolling on my phone. Doom scrolling. But yeah, it's it,
social media is an unpleasant place a lot of the time. And removing yourself from that and
(16:15):
spending time with people who love you and care for you and remembering who you are outside of
the industry is huge. You know, the lines become so blurred when you're playing a character
all the time. And so because you don't have that break from work, you're always playing that
character on on your phone or on the computer or whatever else. And you see a lot of people
(16:42):
kind of get started to become that person and lose themselves and lose their,
some things that should be kept personal, you know, keep some things for you. Everything doesn't
need to be out there. You have to have that little something that's yours. You just keep for you.
(17:04):
You don't have to share with anyone. You don't your fans don't need to know about it.
Yeah, I think that's very important when you are particularly starting out in the industry when
you want to put your all in and say what any business, the first day it's like breaks.
(17:25):
Yeah, no, thank you for that. That makes total sense. And definitely, social media can be great
for promotion. But at the same time, it is a very toxic place. I have friends that do this line of
work and I all together pretty much I stopped going on Twitter because I would see their comments on
their, on their posts. It's just so degrading. It's like, why are you, you know, like, it's just,
(17:51):
it's just really, it's really sad. I want to ignore when it's coming at you as well. You
even want to shout back or the eventually doesn't matter how we, how thick skinned you are. It's
like pounds, you know, but that long it's. Yeah, in fact, yeah, and I can't imagine what they're going
(18:11):
through because I, you know, I'm looking at it and people are really like disrespecting them,
all this stuff. And it's just, it's difficult, you know, people, these are human beings and they're
just expressing themselves in a different way. It's just really unfortunate and a lot of friends,
a couple of friends I know they, they stop all together because they do online creation. They feel like
(18:34):
that, you know, they're not, they're like, they say that it's very anxious, anxious work because you're
on your phone all the time checking messages and dealing with negativity. People are trying to
have gold prices. People are going to box you sending very like unpleasant and threatening messages.
And I get upset if you don't reply fast enough as well. It's like, I'm only one person. Yeah.
(18:58):
Yeah, managing expectations was one of the creators that we had on a panel. So I'm managing
expectations with clients and she was saying that she never responds to them before 24 hours so that
(19:21):
they always know that's what's going to happen. They don't get quick fire messages and then suddenly
there's a break. It's like, okay, that's, that's good. I see that. Yeah. And it's, I think that's
a great way to do that to manage expectations. Take breaks like you were saying, yeah, I just dealing
(19:42):
with that, you know, and it's difficult. You said because these aren't just regular problems.
These are like very new ones problems in a specific career that I can see if he goes somewhere like,
you know, like a therapist who's not educated with sex work, they might say, well, you're the problem.
I think and I can see the, you said, the spiraling and just, oh, it's my fault. Listen to that.
(20:04):
And it just also really scares me the doxing thing. There's definitely people like doxing people
in a dick with it. And I like what you said too about playing a character. I feel like for the most
part, people consuming this content, they think, oh, this is this person 24/7, you know, but they're
(20:24):
just playing a character to like some sort of fantasy that people like, but people think it's 24/7.
It's all the time. When you see an actor on TV that's in a sitcom, or whatever, always plays a bad
guy and like, oh, he must be an absolute asshole. Could be this sweetest person that you,
(20:44):
that you meet, but people already have that concept in the head and it goes the same in the industry,
I think. You know, I think it's weird because for some reason, people can differentiate actors
in their real lives. Like, you wouldn't go to Kiana Reeves. Oh, you're trying to wake or get the matrix.
I mean, yeah, you would to degree. It's like, no, this is Kiana Reeves. You know, or the guy
(21:07):
playing Freddie Krueger, oh, is Freddie Krueger. No, it's the guy playing Freddie Krueger. People have
that can distinct that the difference between, oh, this is a movie set. This is real life. But for some
reason, in adult content and all that, like, they think, oh, this is dumb 24/7. You know, I think that,
I don't know why that is. It's weird, but people can't differentiate that, but they can differentiate
(21:31):
movies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's interesting. The fantasy part maybe. I mean, yeah, you want to
get kind of fully involved in a movie. But when you're watching porn or you're talking to
one of your favorite content creators, it's fantasy. So you really want that to be real. But maybe that
(21:54):
has to be something to do with it. Yeah. I think it does. And I think when they deviates from your fantasy,
it goes like, oh, it's the problem with them kind of thing. Because I worked in like a retail place.
And I definitely have seen adult content creators walking the store. I'm like, super sure.
(22:15):
Shy. And then I sometimes, for I've come up to them, I mean, like the second time, the first
time, I was like, I was at them kind of thing. Oh, hey, you know, by the way, like a big friend of your work,
I don't like an answer or anything. Oh, thank you so much. It's in that. And they're super cool.
And it's just, yeah, it's just regular people. I definitely want to put the regular people. These
are people's day jobs. This is their version of nine to five or something supplement their income.
(22:38):
And also, too, I just, it really upsets me when a lot of people say, oh, sex workers are lazy.
People and only fans are lazy. All they do is post pictures and, you know, our videos and they get a
bunch of money, but that's so simplified. It's definitely not true. It is hard work. I mean, yeah,
some people do that and they don't make much money. But if you want to make serious money from this
(22:59):
industry, then you work damn hard. You are a business. You have to keep not only a year running a
business, but you're having to keep that business in shape and looking good and on point. And, you know,
a lot of people do have teams. You know, it's the top models will have a full team behind them.
(23:20):
And a lot of one of the things that I recommend to everyone as soon as I can afford it is to get
social media manager. Don't even look at that shit. It's just to do all of it for you.
Because it is especially Twitter or X whatever. It's just so toxic like you said.
To shame. It really is. And that's smart to get a social media manager. I didn't realize
(23:47):
until later on that, oh, women are only fans have some women are only fans, some people are only
fans. They have managers or they have people that answer their their messages. And that's pretty
smart on their part is just in general, like content creators, like artists, right? Like Katie Perry,
I doubt she's like runs her whole Instagram because I don't know me personally. I mean, I make
(24:09):
music and podcasts. I don't know what I would do if I woke up to like hundreds of DMs or just in general,
like see a bunch of comments on something, a bunch of likes. Personally, me, I, you know, especially if
it's a lot of negative stuff, maybe one or two is cool, but you see a bunch of negative things.
That can really affect my ability to create content, great music and podcast.
(24:33):
You know, I mean, the same thing goes for adult content creators, you know, just
facing all these things is just really smart to maybe get someone to deal with that if they're able to.
Remove that from your stress. I had an experience personally where it blew up on Twitter and I just felt
so I could even look at Twitter. I couldn't even open Twitter and felt so anxious.
(24:58):
I know what was going to be up there next who's going to be saying what I think it took about a month
for me to get back online. And even now, I don't like opening Twitter. It gives me like
just feelings of anxiety. Same here. Same here. 100%. I only do it sometimes like post something.
(25:21):
One to know I like to podcast episode for someone who's active on Twitter or ever friends always on
Twitter. But man, I get I swear, it will take 30 seconds for me to scroll and see something I really
don't like. Something you really vulgar or something really offensive towards a group of people or
like they're like they're all that stuff. And it's like wow, this is so draining. And it makes me yeah,
(25:43):
I don't really go on it. I go on threads more, but still it's just really upsetting. And I think that's
why going back to I think it's great. There is pineapple support. I think definitely there is a need
for mental health support for people in that line of work. And I want to thank you for facilitating
that, having that starting that nonprofit. Thank you. And I would like everyone to remember that just
(26:09):
because we've been around for a while now, doesn't mean that we're here permanently. We need your support.
We can't we cannot continue without the contribution of the community and the contribution of the
fans and all the people that want the posters to remain being healthy and alive and happy. It's so
(26:32):
important that we work together to do this. You know, we we work really hard. We work with a lot of
the top companies in the adult space. But this is a growing issue, but as more people know about
pineapple support, as the industry gets larger, you know, there was something like 20,000 people
(26:52):
signed up to only fans a day during the pandemic. This industry grows. Our company grows,
not as gross and there's always going to be more and more people that need mental health care.
So please donate. Got it. So where can we find this online, the Instagram handle and all that?
How do we donate? Yeah, you can go to pineapplesupport.org and you'll see the donate button up in the top.
(27:17):
Or social medias are at pineapple ysw, which stands for your safe word.
And that's my pineapple came about. Awesome. I also like pineapple on pizza. I don't know about you.
I do. It's controversial, but I'm down. Yeah, me too. I love it. Well, thank you, Leah. I really
(27:38):
appreciate your time for doing this podcast.
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