November 5, 2025 • 29 mins
Episode Highlights With Katie
- Why what annoys you in others often points to unhealed parts of yourself
- How Carl Jung’s shadow work explains projection and self-recognition
- Practical tools to turn triggers into growth opportunities
- Real-life examples of how “spotting it” led to personal breakthroughs
- Journaling prompts and self-inquiry methods to reframe irritations into insights
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to My Body's podcast and this episode is brought
to you by Apollo neuro This is a tool that
has really helped me feel more relaxed and de stress
than Apollo wearable that can be worn anywhere on your
body and it tracks sleep like other wearables, but unlike
other wearables, it actually improves my sleep automatically. Apollo was
(00:23):
designed by a team of scientists and doctors to emit silent,
soothing sound, waight vibrations that actually feel really good and
work in the moment so it feels like a hug.
These weights are proven in scientific studies to help us
shift into recovery mode so we experience less stress, better mood,
more energy, and better sleep. The sleep setting is probably
my favorite. Apollo is also the first wearable proven to
(00:45):
significantly increase HIV, which is heart rate variability, which is
a leading biomarker for health and longevity. It works at
the most foundational level to improve nervous system balance through
our sense of touch, just like getting a warm hug
from a friend or snuggling a pet. Apollo connects an
app on your phone so you can choose the settings
for mood and energy and the level you need. I've
used mine for years and I definitely noticed the benefits.
(01:07):
I especially live in traveling as well. It's especially great
for moms because it has no side effects and it's
safe if you're pregnant or nursing. You can learn more
about Apollo and get your own by going to Apollo
neuro dot com slash wellness Mama. So find out more
and get your own by going to A p O
L L O n e u ro dot com slash
wellness Mama and use the code wellness Mama all caps
(01:30):
in one word for a discount. This podcast is brought
to you by by Optimizers and in particular their product
that holds my heart, which is their magnesium Breakthrough. My
goal this year is to continue to focus on my
wellness and to create more harmony and resonance. And we
all know that the foundation of health is a good
night's sleep. I talk about that so much on this podcast,
(01:52):
and magnesium is the one nutrient that helps my sleep
so much, as well as so many other aspects of
my health, because magnesium is vital for so many things
within the body, and it is nearly impossible to get
enough from food anymore. And magnesium breakthrough from bioptimizers is
in a category of its own. They have seven different
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(02:14):
involved in over six hundred different biochemical reactions in the body,
no other supplement on the market offers all seven types
of magnesium in one bottle. Pretty much every function of
your body is upgraded when you take magnesium regularly, from
the quality of your sleep to your brain function, from
metabolism to stress levels, and so much more. This is
one of the few supplements that lives on my nightstand
(02:36):
and I'm a little odd, but I take every morning
because I actually get energy from it, though most people
notice that it's better at night now. Studies point to
a lot of benefits of magnesium, including that it may
help improve sleep quality, especially by supporting healthy sleep onset
and have more peaceful nights. Magnesium is also involved in
stress management support and it may help maintain energy levels
(02:57):
and positive mood while also supporting men's clearness and relaxation.
Magnesium is also important for healthy, imbalanced muscle tone and
providing the building blocks to strong bones, and it promotes
a balance stress response, supports relaxation, and I feel much
calmer when I'm regularly taking magnesium, so let's base it
even if you're twenty twenty five. Resolution is not all
(03:18):
about focusing on your health like minus, how are you
going to be able to shave your goals in any
area without enough quality sleep and stress management. Check out
Magnesium Breakthrough and make it part of your daily routine
this year as well for better sleep, better stress response,
and much more. They have a three hundred and sixty
five day money back guarantee and you can find it
at to buy Optimizers dot com, slash wellness Mama and
(03:42):
use the code Wellness Mama for a discount. So that's
b io P T I M I Z e r
s dot com, slash wellness Mama and the code Wellness
Mama for a discount. Hello and welcome to the Wellness
Mama podcast. I'm Katie from Wellnessmama dot com and in
this short solo episode, I'm not talking about physical health
(04:03):
but something that actually I feel like personally for me
has related to mental and emotional health quite a lot
and has been a tough learned lesson that I'm still
learning and often when I have not necessarily enjoyed looking
at however, it has been a helpful teacher, which is
the idea of if you've spot it, you've got it.
And I'll explain what that means more in depth in
(04:25):
this episode, but essentially why our triggers can be incredible teachers,
and how I've noticed, at least for me, a pattern
that what often annoys me most and other people points
instead to parts of myself that I am not integrated
or an acceptance of, or that are unhealed parts. And
so there's a mirror and a trigger there. And this
(04:48):
relates somewhat to Carl Jung's shadow work, and it will
tie in ideas of projection and self recognition. Obviously, this
is a deep psychological topic, and I am by no
means a psychologist, psychiatrist, or anyone to give advice in
that realm. So I'm strictly sharing in this episode things
I have noticed in myself and patterns and what's been
helpful to me. None of this as an advice. As always,
(05:10):
anything I say in these podcasts is meant to strictly
to be informational or inspirational, never prescriptive or advice. I'm
strictly sharing my opinion and I would love to hear
yours and if this resonates and what has worked for you.
I'm also going to touch on a few practical tools
that have helped me personally in case they might be
helpful to you as well, and some real life examples
(05:33):
of spotting it and how this led to some breakthrough
for me. So this was a thing which took me
a lot a long time to finally start noticing. But
we all have people who drive us crazy forever whatever reason.
Maybe it is the interrupter, someone who's chronically late, the
loud talker, the know it alls, But whoever it is,
(05:54):
we've all had people at different times that just drive
us crazy. And the uncomfort truth that I have noticed,
almost without exception in my life is that what annoys
us is often a reflection of something within us, and
that has not been a fun pattern't realize and even
realizing that I still have blind spots related to this,
(06:16):
and even recently had a day where several people annoyed
me and I realized, oh wow, what is in this
lesson that is within myself that I'm not wanting to
look at that to these people are simply being a
mirror for so A small example would be I once
got so irritated with a friend of mine who it
felt like she always had to be right all the time,
(06:38):
and it made it about her and the problem outside
of her, and I was in my head about the situation.
I found myself not wanting to spend as much time
with her, And eventually I realized this mirror in my
own inner desire to be right or to be perceived
as smart. And how of course there was like a
little bit of a competitive is in this there because
I also wanted to be right, but also how there's
a part of me that I did want to look
(07:00):
at or acknowledge that I also had that same desire.
And there's actually some data around this as well. There's
something called the projection study, which was in two thousand
and one showed that people who denied aggression perceived others
as more aggressive, so they noticed it outside of themselves,
not within themselves. We also know that humans often have
a negativity bias, where our brains are wired to focus
(07:23):
on the negative or focus on what irritates us, probably
because at some point there was a survival aspect of this.
But we are five times more likely to notice negative
bias than positive And there's also a positive side to this,
which is data showing the benefits of self reflection. People
who practice self inquiry and are willing to go into
(07:44):
this have lower stress levels and higher emotional regulation. And
of course easier said than done. But the concept that
I've heard from many other people, I certainly don't claim
this as an original concept, but the idea that if
you spot it, you got it, and this is in
Carl Jung's idea of this shadow and in work related
to that. His specific quote I believe was everything that
(08:06):
irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding
of ourselves, or, as my friend Aaron Alexander says, never
waste a trigger. And there's also the mirror principle, which
is that other people act like mirrors which show us
unintegrated parts of ourselves. So in that sense, everyone can
be a teacher. I feel like this can be especially
(08:26):
true as parents. Our kids can be tremendous mirrors. We
love them so much, and they have an ability to
sometimes mirror really uncomfortable parts of ourselves that we may
not want to look at, but that we might be
willing to because we hear about our relationship with them. Also,
I want to point out as an important caveat the
idea if you spotted you've got it, or seeing something
(08:47):
in someone else, that doesn't mean more exactly like this person.
It means that some aspect resonates which may be suppressed,
may be unhealed, maybe something we're subconsciously not looking at.
There's some aspect. It does not I mean we are
just like them, or does it mean necessarily that anything
within this is wrong. It's simply an opportunity for curiosity.
(09:09):
I also want to go a little bit into my
perception of the idea of why this happens in the
first place, the idea of psychological projection, which is a
defense mechanism where we project our disowned traits onto someone else.
And there's a lot of better explanation than I can
give on this in things like ifs, internal family systems,
and in lots of different types of therapy work. But
(09:31):
it's a psychological thing that we often take the problem
and put it outside of ourselves to make it feel
easier to deal with. Research shows that projection is common.
One said he found people who denied having aggressive tendencies
were likely to perceive aggression in others at a higher rate.
And that was in the Journal of Personality and Social
Psychology in two thousand and one. We also know that
(09:51):
humans have something called mirror neurons. Our brains are wired
to reflect what we see in others, and sometimes this
discomfort is recognition of something within ourselves, which can be
an uncomfortable truth, especially if it's something that really bugs
us in someone else and it's so much easier to
let that problem remain outside of us. There's also the
(10:12):
concept of suppression in that we often the traits that
we dislike in ourselves resurface when we see them outside
of ourselves. So this is a trigger and it's challenging
our suppression, our successful suppression of these traits. Therefore it's uncomfortable.
So some practical examples of this, if we are annoyed
(10:33):
by arrogance, for example, maybe we've suppressed our own confidence
or our fear of being too much, and so seeing
this in someone else becomes a mirror. Or it might
be that we actually like have those parts of ourselves.
Then we've been actively suppressing our own confidence and that
is simply mirroring and triggering that suppression within us. Or
(10:55):
if we are triggered by laziness or judging laziness. Maybe
we are worked and resentful for not allowing ourselves to rest.
Maybe the mirror is pointing toward that, Or if we
are irritated by someone who always needs attention, maybe we
actually crave recognition and deny it to ourselves or don't
(11:15):
allow it from others as well. Maybe we have core
questions about our worthiness and deeply desire to actually have
that tension that we perhaps did not have as a child.
There's also often I feel like more than one thing
wrapped up into a single cause here. So as a
personal example, I've been in the online world for almost
(11:35):
twenty years now, which is crazy to say, and have
been through a lot of the evolutions of the Internet,
the forum era, the initial social media commenting era. It's
been the wild West out there at different times and
at different points in that with where I was on
health journey, pregnancies, et cetera. I have been like vastly
(11:56):
varied shapes and sizes and physical appearance during that time
and throughout the years, I have gotten quite a lot
of comments that were extremely physically or emotionally hurtful to me,
including finding whole forums on the internet entirely dedicated to
picking apart my appearance, and that one actually for weeks
I was in my head about and it was really
(12:16):
really difficult at the time, and there were times in
that I even considered fully removing myself from the work
on the internet and from all islama because of that.
And what I realized when I was willing to get
really radically honest with myself is that these things were
hurtful because a there was an element of truth in them.
I still was working on healing and finding my metabolic
(12:39):
healthy point and resolving thyroid things and postpartum it all
kinds of stuff. So it was mirroring one of my
greatest insecurities, and there was an element of truth in
that that I was deeply insecure about, and it revealed
my own inner critic and insecurities. Those comments hurt because
I also said those things to myself internally, and I
(12:59):
didn't like admitting this. I also, my inner critic often
said hurtful things about other people, not usually on the
Internet or even to their face, but internally, and so
it was a very uncomfortable thing to get to face
and a beautiful chance to start paying attention to that
and to shift that, and I realized that at least
the parts I could control were learning to slowly shift
(13:21):
my inner critic and the voice toward myself and toward
other people, because I couldn't, of course, control what strangers
on the internet think of me, but I can control
even my energy aalog around other people. And I found
that as I found more grace and joy and positivity
and kindness even in my inner thoughts that no one
else ever heard, but even as those shifted about other
(13:44):
people and about myself, interestingly, the outer reality started to
shift as well. So those comments were hurtful because there
was an element of them that was true, and it
was also a beautiful opportunity and place to grow when
I was willing to face it. I'll say, by no
means done this perfectly. I'm still in the journey of that,
(14:04):
and sometimes comments are still hurtful. And I've gotten better
over the years at realizing that what other people think
of me is actually none of my business and not
dwelling on that or certainly not seeking out those places
on the Internet where people are just having conversations to
pick apart my appearance. And I'm really grateful that that
was such a trigger to that inner lesson. I also
(14:24):
want to point out the positive flip side here, because
this is not always a negative principle, the idea of
if you've spot it, you've got it. Sometimes spotting positive
traits also reflects positive things within us, like if you
admire it, you have it often, and like with anything,
where our energy goes, our attention flows, or what we
(14:45):
resist persists of what we flow our positive energy toward
often can blossom. And I've noticed the more I have
both naturally or intentionally started noticing the beautiful positive qualities
in other people, the more I'm willing to acknowledge them
in myself, and the more of them I see, And
it's a much more pleasant way to go through life
over time, having trained this muscle of noticing the beautiful
(15:08):
things in people to go through life seeing that beauty
everywhere rather than seeing the negativity. And it was an
intentional practice for me. I didn't just wake up one
day and have the ability to see the beautiful things
in people. And I'm still working on growing that ability,
but it is a much more pleasant way to go
through life is to just and I find myself now
like constantly having moments of Wow, humans are so incredible,
(15:29):
or that person that's amazing what they did. It's just
a lot more fun. So I feel like this is
a little bit of the ambiguous part. I'm an attempt
to provide some of the tools that have helped me
in learning this journey. I do feel like it's a
very individual journey, probably not in any ways a linear path.
Different things, of course, like in anything, will work differently
(15:50):
for different people. But so maybe things that might be
helpful if you are curious about doing an exploration into
where this might be applicable in your life. Some practical suggestions.
The first one incredibly simple, but that is simply to
pause and reflect. I think this is actually extremely beneficial
life advice in many many areas, but especially when we
(16:12):
are triggered, rather than immediately responding, taking a deep breath
and then asking what is this showing me about me,
and sitting with the answer for a minute, because likely
it's not entirely about the other person. It might not
be about the other person at all, and this can
be a topic for a different podcasts, but I actually
(16:34):
find this is potentially one of the most helpful parenting
tools as well, and the idea of getting curious and
visiting with our kids' realities instead of assuming that our
reality is correct. And doctor Kelly Brogan tells a beautiful
story of this on her podcast which I love and
highly recommend. It's called Reclamation Radio, but where she tells
the story of how she asked her daughters at one
(16:56):
point what they needed from her and what if anything
sort of like that she had like was unhealed in them,
or that they needed from her and were not getting
and she got a response from one of her daughters
a text response talking about and like well to preface,
she expected to get kind of a glowing review of
what a great mom she was, and instead one of
(17:16):
her daughters wrote back very heartfelt but hard for her
to hear message talking about all the ways that she
felt like she had not shown up for her at
different times or things that have been really painful for
her for different reasons throughout her childhood. And Kelly's lesson
in that she had the instinct to self defend as
we all do, and to tell her side of the
(17:37):
story and like if only they understood, then they wouldn't
feel that way. And instead she paused and reflected and
felt the parts of that that were true, but more importantly,
she decided to be present with her child's reality rather
than to be right. So rather than defend herself, she
went to her daughter and said, can you tell me more?
And they had a great conversation, And that was one
(17:59):
of I would of many things that really positively impacted
her relationship with her daughter. And I think obviously our
children are very important relationships in our lives. I think
this has wide applicability into practically any relationship and many
many things. I've learned this lesson the hard way myself
many times could have been navigated much more gracefully if
(18:20):
I simply paused and reflected before responding, rather than acting
on the immediate emotional impulse, but instead getting curious about
it and finding out what that trigger might perhaps be
willing to teach me. They're also the idea of the
three to one shadow process, which I believe comes from
Ken Wilbur, And this one helped me to kind of
(18:42):
like mentally sort this out or figure out what the
trigger might be when it felt a little ambiguous. So
that the idea of three two one is third person,
second person, and then first person. So starting with the
third person, what bothers you in them, they are arrogant,
they're allowed there late whatever it is that you think
the problem was outside of you, name what bothers you
in them. The second person would be speak to them
(19:07):
in a dialogue. Doesn't have to be out loud or
directly to them, but in your mind, speak to them
in dialogue and tell them. And then the first person
touches directly on this concept we're talking about, and you
own the concept in the first person. So I am
this thing, or I am showing signs of if you
don't want to use the words I am in in
(19:27):
a negatively powerful way, or my feel or my experience is.
But put it back in the first person, because that
when it's in the first person, do you know have
some ability to affect change in that area. And this
episode is brought to you by Apollo neuro This is
a tool that has really helped me feel more relaxed
(19:50):
and de stressed. It's than Apollo wearable that can be
worn anywhere in your body and it tracks sleep like
other wearables, but unlike other wearables, it actually improves my
sleep automatically. Apollo was designed by a team of scientists
and doctors to emit silent soothing, sound weight vibrations that
actually feel really good and work in the moment so
it feels like a hug. These waves are proven in
(20:12):
scientific studies to help us shift into recovery mode so
we experience less stress, better mood, more energy, and better sleep.
The sleep setting is probably my favorite. Apollo is also
the first wearable proven to significantly increase HRV, which is
heart rate variability, which is a leading biomarker for health
and longevity. It works at the most foundational level to
improve nervous system balance through our sense of touch, just
(20:35):
like getting a warm hug from a friend or snuggling
a pet. Apollow connects to an app on your phone,
so you can choose the settings for mood and energy
in the level you need. I've used mine for years
and I definitely noticed the benefits. I especially live when
traveling as well. It's especially great for moms because it
has no side effects and it's safe if you're pregnant
or nursing. You can learn more about Apollo and get
your own by going to Apollo neuro dot com, Splash
(20:57):
Wellness Momo. So find out more and get your own
by goas going to APO L l O N euro
dot com, slash wellness Mama and use the code wellness
Mama all caps in one word for a discount. This
podcast is brought to you by Optimizers and in particular
their product that holds my heart, which is their Magnesium Breakthrough.
(21:19):
My goal this year is to continue to focus on
my wellness and to create more harmony and resonance. And
we all know that the foundation of health is a
good night's sleep. I talk about that so much on
this podcast, and magnesium is the one nutrient that helps
my sleep so much, as well as so many other
aspects of my health, because magnesium is vital for so
many things within the body, and it is nearly impossible
(21:41):
to get enough from food anymore. And magnesium Breakthrough from
Bioptimizers is in a category of its own. They have
seven different forms of magnesium in one supplement, and since
magnesium is involved in over six hundred different biochemical reactions
in the body, no other supplement on the market offers
all seven types of magnesium in one bottle. Pretty Much
(22:02):
every function of your body is upgraded when you take
magnesium regularly, from the quality of your sleep to your
brain function from metabolism, to stress levels and so much more.
This is one of the few supplements that lives on
my nightstand and I'm a little odd, but I take
every morning because I actually get energy from it, though
most people notice that it's better at night now. Studies
(22:22):
point to a lot of benefits of magnesium, including that
it may help improve sleep quality, especially by supporting healthy
sleep onset and have more peaceful nights. My Nuesium is
also involved in stress management support, and it may help
maintain energy levels and positive mood while also supporting mental
clearness and relaxation. My nuseum is also important for healthy,
imbalanced muscle tone and providing the building blocks to strong bones,
(22:46):
and it promotes a balance stress response, supports relaxation, and
I feel much calmer when I'm regularly taking magnesium. So
let's face it, even if you're twenty twenty five, resolution
is not all about focusing on your health like minus,
how are you going to be able to shave your
goals in any area without enough quality sleep and stress management.
Check out my Museum breakthrough and make it part of
(23:06):
your daily routine this year as well for better sleep,
better stress response, and much more. They have a three
hundred and sixty five day money back guarantee and you
can find it at to buy Optimizers dot com, slash
Wellness Mama and use the code Wellness Mama for a discount.
So that's b io P T I M I Z
E r S dot com, slash Wellness Mama and the
(23:29):
code Wellness Mama for a discount. I also, you've heard
me say this in relationship with a lot of things
in life. But if we can shift into more curiosity
and away from judgment, that also opens up a whole
realm of possibilities for us in growth, in healing, and
simply learning about ourselves and others. If you haven't seen
(23:51):
the show Ted last so there's a beautiful scene where
he mentions the Walt Woman quote about curiosity not judgment.
There's a dartboard scene which is perhaps my favorite scene
in any TV show of all time. But it's such
a good reminder to as much as possible, stay in
a state of curiosity and not judgment. So replace thoughts
(24:13):
like uh, I hate it when blah blah blah to
I'm curious what this is mirroring in me, or I
wonder what in me is reacting to this simply moving
it back into our own agency, to our own ability
to affect change, and into our own self inquiry gives
us so much more authentic power and often peace and
(24:34):
grace related to whatever is going on. Also, I feel
like it's important to have conscious self compassion within this
work or within anything that's touching on these deep inner
realms that can be so uncomfortable at different times, because
noticing isn't about blame. I feel like in almost every
case blame is largely not helpful, but it's about integrating.
(24:54):
So staying in that curiosity versus shifting into the cause
of effect of blame and trying to fix it. Instead,
get curious and try to integrate it. So some journaling
prompts that you could play with in this arena would
be what bothers me the most? In others? Where does
this live in me, even in very small ways? How
(25:16):
might this trait be useful if it was integrated? And
what would it feel like to be unbotherable by outside forces?
And this is something that a lot of the stoics
even talk about, is that we of course can't affect
the outside world. We can't affect we can't change other people.
We can't force other people to be how we want
them to be, but we have complete ability to shift
(25:37):
our own perceptions, emotions, responses, especially and what peace comes
when we can find a place of being unaffected by
that which is without us. Some benefits that I have
found as i'd done this work. Like I said, it
has been very painful at times, and in beg any
of the deep work is always easy along the path,
(26:00):
I have found that by shifting into this curiosity, accepting
that when something bothers me, it is because it is
resonating with something within me that I may not want
to look at, over time this has reduced irritation and
conflicts quite a lot and led to some really fascinating
insight within myself. I also feel like it's very helpful
(26:21):
for empathy, because we can see others more easily as
humans just like us when we acknowledge the mirror that
is within us, that is seeing those things in others.
And when triggers become teachers, it turns simply painful circumstances
into guides and lessons that can have a really positive
impact on us and on others. And I think it
(26:44):
also frees up a tremendous amount of our creative energy,
which is an intangible There's no lab test for this.
But when we shift away from annoyance or judgment or
anger and into creativity or presence or love, we unlock
more of our own creative and are forced and have
more bandwidth for the things that actually light us up.
(27:06):
So this one, I know, is a little bit more
conceptual than tactical, but as key takeaways or just as summary,
I just love to bring up this concept as a curiosity,
as an idea, as a place of inquiry, not as advice,
but the idea that triggers might be teachers. Perhaps something
in this podcast even triggered you. Perhaps there's a chance
(27:26):
for curiosity there. Reminding that the idea of if you
spot it, you got it is not about blame. It's
about opportunity, and it's about actually returning our power to ourselves,
inability to effect change in a positive way in our lives,
and that even where these things mirror painful things, or
these triggers point to uncomfortable parts of ourselves, those are
(27:47):
also opportunities. As Rumy said, the wound is the place
where the light enters you, and I would love to
hear your experience with this, if you've noticed anything similar,
if you have had any similar realizations in your life,
what those examples look like for you, or to hear
what topics questions guests you would like me to jump
(28:08):
into in future episodes of this podcast. I do read
every comment and rating and review as well as most
of my messages on Instagram, so it'd love for you
to reach out in any of those places, and I
would be deeply, deeply grateful if you would take two
minutes to leave an honest rating and review wherever you
listen to podcasts. This really helps other people to find
(28:28):
the podcast and helps to keep it going and growing,
and I'm always so grateful, And of course I'm grateful
for your time, your energy, and your attention for you
sharing on of those with me today, and I hope
that you will join me again on the next episode
of the Wellness Weama podcast. If you're enjoying these interviews,
(28:49):
would you please take two minutes to leave a rating
or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more
people to find the podcast, which means even more moms
and families can benefit from the information. I really appreciate
your time and thanks as always for listening
Welcome to My Body's podcast and this episode is brought
to you by Apollo neuro This is a tool that
has really helped me feel more relaxed and de stress
than Apollo wearable that can be worn anywhere on your
body and it tracks sleep like other wearables, but unlike
other wearables, it actually improves my sleep automatically. Apollo was
(00:23):
designed by a team of scientists and doctors to emit silent,
soothing sound, waight vibrations that actually feel really good and
work in the moment so it feels like a hug.
These weights are proven in scientific studies to help us
shift into recovery mode so we experience less stress, better mood,
more energy, and better sleep. The sleep setting is probably
my favorite. Apollo is also the first wearable proven to
(00:45):
significantly increase HIV, which is heart rate variability, which is
a leading biomarker for health and longevity. It works at
the most foundational level to improve nervous system balance through
our sense of touch, just like getting a warm hug
from a friend or snuggling a pet. Apollo connects an
app on your phone so you can choose the settings
for mood and energy and the level you need. I've
used mine for years and I definitely noticed the benefits.
(01:07):
I especially live in traveling as well. It's especially great
for moms because it has no side effects and it's
safe if you're pregnant or nursing. You can learn more
about Apollo and get your own by going to Apollo
neuro dot com slash wellness Mama. So find out more
and get your own by going to A p O
L L O n e u ro dot com slash
wellness Mama and use the code wellness Mama all caps
(01:30):
in one word for a discount. This podcast is brought
to you by by Optimizers and in particular their product
that holds my heart, which is their magnesium Breakthrough. My
goal this year is to continue to focus on my
wellness and to create more harmony and resonance. And we
all know that the foundation of health is a good
night's sleep. I talk about that so much on this podcast,
(01:52):
and magnesium is the one nutrient that helps my sleep
so much, as well as so many other aspects of
my health, because magnesium is vital for so many things
within the body, and it is nearly impossible to get
enough from food anymore. And magnesium breakthrough from bioptimizers is
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(02:14):
involved in over six hundred different biochemical reactions in the body,
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of magnesium in one bottle. Pretty much every function of
your body is upgraded when you take magnesium regularly, from
the quality of your sleep to your brain function, from
metabolism to stress levels, and so much more. This is
one of the few supplements that lives on my nightstand
(02:36):
and I'm a little odd, but I take every morning
because I actually get energy from it, though most people
notice that it's better at night now. Studies point to
a lot of benefits of magnesium, including that it may
help improve sleep quality, especially by supporting healthy sleep onset
and have more peaceful nights. Magnesium is also involved in
stress management support and it may help maintain energy levels
(02:57):
and positive mood while also supporting men's clearness and relaxation.
Magnesium is also important for healthy, imbalanced muscle tone and
providing the building blocks to strong bones, and it promotes
a balance stress response, supports relaxation, and I feel much
calmer when I'm regularly taking magnesium, so let's base it
even if you're twenty twenty five. Resolution is not all
(03:18):
about focusing on your health like minus, how are you
going to be able to shave your goals in any
area without enough quality sleep and stress management. Check out
Magnesium Breakthrough and make it part of your daily routine
this year as well for better sleep, better stress response,
and much more. They have a three hundred and sixty
five day money back guarantee and you can find it
at to buy Optimizers dot com, slash wellness Mama and
(03:42):
use the code Wellness Mama for a discount. So that's
b io P T I M I Z e r
s dot com, slash wellness Mama and the code Wellness
Mama for a discount. Hello and welcome to the Wellness
Mama podcast. I'm Katie from Wellnessmama dot com and in
this short solo episode, I'm not talking about physical health
(04:03):
but something that actually I feel like personally for me
has related to mental and emotional health quite a lot
and has been a tough learned lesson that I'm still
learning and often when I have not necessarily enjoyed looking
at however, it has been a helpful teacher, which is
the idea of if you've spot it, you've got it.
And I'll explain what that means more in depth in
(04:25):
this episode, but essentially why our triggers can be incredible teachers,
and how I've noticed, at least for me, a pattern
that what often annoys me most and other people points
instead to parts of myself that I am not integrated
or an acceptance of, or that are unhealed parts. And
so there's a mirror and a trigger there. And this
(04:48):
relates somewhat to Carl Jung's shadow work, and it will
tie in ideas of projection and self recognition. Obviously, this
is a deep psychological topic, and I am by no
means a psychologist, psychiatrist, or anyone to give advice in
that realm. So I'm strictly sharing in this episode things
I have noticed in myself and patterns and what's been
helpful to me. None of this as an advice. As always,
(05:10):
anything I say in these podcasts is meant to strictly
to be informational or inspirational, never prescriptive or advice. I'm
strictly sharing my opinion and I would love to hear
yours and if this resonates and what has worked for you.
I'm also going to touch on a few practical tools
that have helped me personally in case they might be
helpful to you as well, and some real life examples
(05:33):
of spotting it and how this led to some breakthrough
for me. So this was a thing which took me
a lot a long time to finally start noticing. But
we all have people who drive us crazy forever whatever reason.
Maybe it is the interrupter, someone who's chronically late, the
loud talker, the know it alls, But whoever it is,
(05:54):
we've all had people at different times that just drive
us crazy. And the uncomfort truth that I have noticed,
almost without exception in my life is that what annoys
us is often a reflection of something within us, and
that has not been a fun pattern't realize and even
realizing that I still have blind spots related to this,
(06:16):
and even recently had a day where several people annoyed
me and I realized, oh wow, what is in this
lesson that is within myself that I'm not wanting to
look at that to these people are simply being a
mirror for so A small example would be I once
got so irritated with a friend of mine who it
felt like she always had to be right all the time,
(06:38):
and it made it about her and the problem outside
of her, and I was in my head about the situation.
I found myself not wanting to spend as much time
with her, And eventually I realized this mirror in my
own inner desire to be right or to be perceived
as smart. And how of course there was like a
little bit of a competitive is in this there because
I also wanted to be right, but also how there's
a part of me that I did want to look
(07:00):
at or acknowledge that I also had that same desire.
And there's actually some data around this as well. There's
something called the projection study, which was in two thousand
and one showed that people who denied aggression perceived others
as more aggressive, so they noticed it outside of themselves,
not within themselves. We also know that humans often have
a negativity bias, where our brains are wired to focus
(07:23):
on the negative or focus on what irritates us, probably
because at some point there was a survival aspect of this.
But we are five times more likely to notice negative
bias than positive And there's also a positive side to this,
which is data showing the benefits of self reflection. People
who practice self inquiry and are willing to go into
(07:44):
this have lower stress levels and higher emotional regulation. And
of course easier said than done. But the concept that
I've heard from many other people, I certainly don't claim
this as an original concept, but the idea that if
you spot it, you got it, and this is in
Carl Jung's idea of this shadow and in work related
to that. His specific quote I believe was everything that
(08:06):
irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding
of ourselves, or, as my friend Aaron Alexander says, never
waste a trigger. And there's also the mirror principle, which
is that other people act like mirrors which show us
unintegrated parts of ourselves. So in that sense, everyone can
be a teacher. I feel like this can be especially
(08:26):
true as parents. Our kids can be tremendous mirrors. We
love them so much, and they have an ability to
sometimes mirror really uncomfortable parts of ourselves that we may
not want to look at, but that we might be
willing to because we hear about our relationship with them. Also,
I want to point out as an important caveat the
idea if you spotted you've got it, or seeing something
(08:47):
in someone else, that doesn't mean more exactly like this person.
It means that some aspect resonates which may be suppressed,
may be unhealed, maybe something we're subconsciously not looking at.
There's some aspect. It does not I mean we are
just like them, or does it mean necessarily that anything
within this is wrong. It's simply an opportunity for curiosity.
(09:09):
I also want to go a little bit into my
perception of the idea of why this happens in the
first place, the idea of psychological projection, which is a
defense mechanism where we project our disowned traits onto someone else.
And there's a lot of better explanation than I can
give on this in things like ifs, internal family systems,
and in lots of different types of therapy work. But
(09:31):
it's a psychological thing that we often take the problem
and put it outside of ourselves to make it feel
easier to deal with. Research shows that projection is common.
One said he found people who denied having aggressive tendencies
were likely to perceive aggression in others at a higher rate.
And that was in the Journal of Personality and Social
Psychology in two thousand and one. We also know that
(09:51):
humans have something called mirror neurons. Our brains are wired
to reflect what we see in others, and sometimes this
discomfort is recognition of something within ourselves, which can be
an uncomfortable truth, especially if it's something that really bugs
us in someone else and it's so much easier to
let that problem remain outside of us. There's also the
(10:12):
concept of suppression in that we often the traits that
we dislike in ourselves resurface when we see them outside
of ourselves. So this is a trigger and it's challenging
our suppression, our successful suppression of these traits. Therefore it's uncomfortable.
So some practical examples of this, if we are annoyed
(10:33):
by arrogance, for example, maybe we've suppressed our own confidence
or our fear of being too much, and so seeing
this in someone else becomes a mirror. Or it might
be that we actually like have those parts of ourselves.
Then we've been actively suppressing our own confidence and that
is simply mirroring and triggering that suppression within us. Or
(10:55):
if we are triggered by laziness or judging laziness. Maybe
we are worked and resentful for not allowing ourselves to rest.
Maybe the mirror is pointing toward that, Or if we
are irritated by someone who always needs attention, maybe we
actually crave recognition and deny it to ourselves or don't
(11:15):
allow it from others as well. Maybe we have core
questions about our worthiness and deeply desire to actually have
that tension that we perhaps did not have as a child.
There's also often I feel like more than one thing
wrapped up into a single cause here. So as a
personal example, I've been in the online world for almost
(11:35):
twenty years now, which is crazy to say, and have
been through a lot of the evolutions of the Internet,
the forum era, the initial social media commenting era. It's
been the wild West out there at different times and
at different points in that with where I was on
health journey, pregnancies, et cetera. I have been like vastly
(11:56):
varied shapes and sizes and physical appearance during that time
and throughout the years, I have gotten quite a lot
of comments that were extremely physically or emotionally hurtful to me,
including finding whole forums on the internet entirely dedicated to
picking apart my appearance, and that one actually for weeks
I was in my head about and it was really
(12:16):
really difficult at the time, and there were times in
that I even considered fully removing myself from the work
on the internet and from all islama because of that.
And what I realized when I was willing to get
really radically honest with myself is that these things were
hurtful because a there was an element of truth in them.
I still was working on healing and finding my metabolic
(12:39):
healthy point and resolving thyroid things and postpartum it all
kinds of stuff. So it was mirroring one of my
greatest insecurities, and there was an element of truth in
that that I was deeply insecure about, and it revealed
my own inner critic and insecurities. Those comments hurt because
I also said those things to myself internally, and I
(12:59):
didn't like admitting this. I also, my inner critic often
said hurtful things about other people, not usually on the
Internet or even to their face, but internally, and so
it was a very uncomfortable thing to get to face
and a beautiful chance to start paying attention to that
and to shift that, and I realized that at least
the parts I could control were learning to slowly shift
(13:21):
my inner critic and the voice toward myself and toward
other people, because I couldn't, of course, control what strangers
on the internet think of me, but I can control
even my energy aalog around other people. And I found
that as I found more grace and joy and positivity
and kindness even in my inner thoughts that no one
else ever heard, but even as those shifted about other
(13:44):
people and about myself, interestingly, the outer reality started to
shift as well. So those comments were hurtful because there
was an element of them that was true, and it
was also a beautiful opportunity and place to grow when
I was willing to face it. I'll say, by no
means done this perfectly. I'm still in the journey of that,
(14:04):
and sometimes comments are still hurtful. And I've gotten better
over the years at realizing that what other people think
of me is actually none of my business and not
dwelling on that or certainly not seeking out those places
on the Internet where people are just having conversations to
pick apart my appearance. And I'm really grateful that that
was such a trigger to that inner lesson. I also
(14:24):
want to point out the positive flip side here, because
this is not always a negative principle, the idea of
if you've spot it, you've got it. Sometimes spotting positive
traits also reflects positive things within us, like if you
admire it, you have it often, and like with anything,
where our energy goes, our attention flows, or what we
(14:45):
resist persists of what we flow our positive energy toward
often can blossom. And I've noticed the more I have
both naturally or intentionally started noticing the beautiful positive qualities
in other people, the more I'm willing to acknowledge them
in myself, and the more of them I see, And
it's a much more pleasant way to go through life
over time, having trained this muscle of noticing the beautiful
(15:08):
things in people to go through life seeing that beauty
everywhere rather than seeing the negativity. And it was an
intentional practice for me. I didn't just wake up one
day and have the ability to see the beautiful things
in people. And I'm still working on growing that ability,
but it is a much more pleasant way to go
through life is to just and I find myself now
like constantly having moments of Wow, humans are so incredible,
(15:29):
or that person that's amazing what they did. It's just
a lot more fun. So I feel like this is
a little bit of the ambiguous part. I'm an attempt
to provide some of the tools that have helped me
in learning this journey. I do feel like it's a
very individual journey, probably not in any ways a linear path.
Different things, of course, like in anything, will work differently
(15:50):
for different people. But so maybe things that might be
helpful if you are curious about doing an exploration into
where this might be applicable in your life. Some practical suggestions.
The first one incredibly simple, but that is simply to
pause and reflect. I think this is actually extremely beneficial
life advice in many many areas, but especially when we
(16:12):
are triggered, rather than immediately responding, taking a deep breath
and then asking what is this showing me about me,
and sitting with the answer for a minute, because likely
it's not entirely about the other person. It might not
be about the other person at all, and this can
be a topic for a different podcasts, but I actually
(16:34):
find this is potentially one of the most helpful parenting
tools as well, and the idea of getting curious and
visiting with our kids' realities instead of assuming that our
reality is correct. And doctor Kelly Brogan tells a beautiful
story of this on her podcast which I love and
highly recommend. It's called Reclamation Radio, but where she tells
the story of how she asked her daughters at one
(16:56):
point what they needed from her and what if anything
sort of like that she had like was unhealed in them,
or that they needed from her and were not getting
and she got a response from one of her daughters
a text response talking about and like well to preface,
she expected to get kind of a glowing review of
what a great mom she was, and instead one of
(17:16):
her daughters wrote back very heartfelt but hard for her
to hear message talking about all the ways that she
felt like she had not shown up for her at
different times or things that have been really painful for
her for different reasons throughout her childhood. And Kelly's lesson
in that she had the instinct to self defend as
we all do, and to tell her side of the
(17:37):
story and like if only they understood, then they wouldn't
feel that way. And instead she paused and reflected and
felt the parts of that that were true, but more importantly,
she decided to be present with her child's reality rather
than to be right. So rather than defend herself, she
went to her daughter and said, can you tell me more?
And they had a great conversation, And that was one
(17:59):
of I would of many things that really positively impacted
her relationship with her daughter. And I think obviously our
children are very important relationships in our lives. I think
this has wide applicability into practically any relationship and many
many things. I've learned this lesson the hard way myself
many times could have been navigated much more gracefully if
(18:20):
I simply paused and reflected before responding, rather than acting
on the immediate emotional impulse, but instead getting curious about
it and finding out what that trigger might perhaps be
willing to teach me. They're also the idea of the
three to one shadow process, which I believe comes from
Ken Wilbur, And this one helped me to kind of
(18:42):
like mentally sort this out or figure out what the
trigger might be when it felt a little ambiguous. So
that the idea of three two one is third person,
second person, and then first person. So starting with the
third person, what bothers you in them, they are arrogant,
they're allowed there late whatever it is that you think
the problem was outside of you, name what bothers you
in them. The second person would be speak to them
(19:07):
in a dialogue. Doesn't have to be out loud or
directly to them, but in your mind, speak to them
in dialogue and tell them. And then the first person
touches directly on this concept we're talking about, and you
own the concept in the first person. So I am
this thing, or I am showing signs of if you
don't want to use the words I am in in
(19:27):
a negatively powerful way, or my feel or my experience is.
But put it back in the first person, because that
when it's in the first person, do you know have
some ability to affect change in that area. And this
episode is brought to you by Apollo neuro This is
a tool that has really helped me feel more relaxed
(19:50):
and de stressed. It's than Apollo wearable that can be
worn anywhere in your body and it tracks sleep like
other wearables, but unlike other wearables, it actually improves my
sleep automatically. Apollo was designed by a team of scientists
and doctors to emit silent soothing, sound weight vibrations that
actually feel really good and work in the moment so
it feels like a hug. These waves are proven in
(20:12):
scientific studies to help us shift into recovery mode so
we experience less stress, better mood, more energy, and better sleep.
The sleep setting is probably my favorite. Apollo is also
the first wearable proven to significantly increase HRV, which is
heart rate variability, which is a leading biomarker for health
and longevity. It works at the most foundational level to
improve nervous system balance through our sense of touch, just
(20:35):
like getting a warm hug from a friend or snuggling
a pet. Apollow connects to an app on your phone,
so you can choose the settings for mood and energy
in the level you need. I've used mine for years
and I definitely noticed the benefits. I especially live when
traveling as well. It's especially great for moms because it
has no side effects and it's safe if you're pregnant
or nursing. You can learn more about Apollo and get
your own by going to Apollo neuro dot com, Splash
(20:57):
Wellness Momo. So find out more and get your own
by goas going to APO L l O N euro
dot com, slash wellness Mama and use the code wellness
Mama all caps in one word for a discount. This
podcast is brought to you by Optimizers and in particular
their product that holds my heart, which is their Magnesium Breakthrough.
(21:19):
My goal this year is to continue to focus on
my wellness and to create more harmony and resonance. And
we all know that the foundation of health is a
good night's sleep. I talk about that so much on
this podcast, and magnesium is the one nutrient that helps
my sleep so much, as well as so many other
aspects of my health, because magnesium is vital for so
many things within the body, and it is nearly impossible
(21:41):
to get enough from food anymore. And magnesium Breakthrough from
Bioptimizers is in a category of its own. They have
seven different forms of magnesium in one supplement, and since
magnesium is involved in over six hundred different biochemical reactions
in the body, no other supplement on the market offers
all seven types of magnesium in one bottle. Pretty Much
(22:02):
every function of your body is upgraded when you take
magnesium regularly, from the quality of your sleep to your
brain function from metabolism, to stress levels and so much more.
This is one of the few supplements that lives on
my nightstand and I'm a little odd, but I take
every morning because I actually get energy from it, though
most people notice that it's better at night now. Studies
(22:22):
point to a lot of benefits of magnesium, including that
it may help improve sleep quality, especially by supporting healthy
sleep onset and have more peaceful nights. My Nuesium is
also involved in stress management support, and it may help
maintain energy levels and positive mood while also supporting mental
clearness and relaxation. My nuseum is also important for healthy,
imbalanced muscle tone and providing the building blocks to strong bones,
(22:46):
and it promotes a balance stress response, supports relaxation, and
I feel much calmer when I'm regularly taking magnesium. So
let's face it, even if you're twenty twenty five, resolution
is not all about focusing on your health like minus,
how are you going to be able to shave your
goals in any area without enough quality sleep and stress management.
Check out my Museum breakthrough and make it part of
(23:06):
your daily routine this year as well for better sleep,
better stress response, and much more. They have a three
hundred and sixty five day money back guarantee and you
can find it at to buy Optimizers dot com, slash
Wellness Mama and use the code Wellness Mama for a discount.
So that's b io P T I M I Z
E r S dot com, slash Wellness Mama and the
(23:29):
code Wellness Mama for a discount. I also, you've heard
me say this in relationship with a lot of things
in life. But if we can shift into more curiosity
and away from judgment, that also opens up a whole
realm of possibilities for us in growth, in healing, and
simply learning about ourselves and others. If you haven't seen
(23:51):
the show Ted last so there's a beautiful scene where
he mentions the Walt Woman quote about curiosity not judgment.
There's a dartboard scene which is perhaps my favorite scene
in any TV show of all time. But it's such
a good reminder to as much as possible, stay in
a state of curiosity and not judgment. So replace thoughts
(24:13):
like uh, I hate it when blah blah blah to
I'm curious what this is mirroring in me, or I
wonder what in me is reacting to this simply moving
it back into our own agency, to our own ability
to affect change, and into our own self inquiry gives
us so much more authentic power and often peace and
(24:34):
grace related to whatever is going on. Also, I feel
like it's important to have conscious self compassion within this
work or within anything that's touching on these deep inner
realms that can be so uncomfortable at different times, because
noticing isn't about blame. I feel like in almost every
case blame is largely not helpful, but it's about integrating.
(24:54):
So staying in that curiosity versus shifting into the cause
of effect of blame and trying to fix it. Instead,
get curious and try to integrate it. So some journaling
prompts that you could play with in this arena would
be what bothers me the most? In others? Where does
this live in me, even in very small ways? How
(25:16):
might this trait be useful if it was integrated? And
what would it feel like to be unbotherable by outside forces?
And this is something that a lot of the stoics
even talk about, is that we of course can't affect
the outside world. We can't affect we can't change other people.
We can't force other people to be how we want
them to be, but we have complete ability to shift
(25:37):
our own perceptions, emotions, responses, especially and what peace comes
when we can find a place of being unaffected by
that which is without us. Some benefits that I have
found as i'd done this work. Like I said, it
has been very painful at times, and in beg any
of the deep work is always easy along the path,
(26:00):
I have found that by shifting into this curiosity, accepting
that when something bothers me, it is because it is
resonating with something within me that I may not want
to look at, over time this has reduced irritation and
conflicts quite a lot and led to some really fascinating
insight within myself. I also feel like it's very helpful
(26:21):
for empathy, because we can see others more easily as
humans just like us when we acknowledge the mirror that
is within us, that is seeing those things in others.
And when triggers become teachers, it turns simply painful circumstances
into guides and lessons that can have a really positive
impact on us and on others. And I think it
(26:44):
also frees up a tremendous amount of our creative energy,
which is an intangible There's no lab test for this.
But when we shift away from annoyance or judgment or
anger and into creativity or presence or love, we unlock
more of our own creative and are forced and have
more bandwidth for the things that actually light us up.
(27:06):
So this one, I know, is a little bit more
conceptual than tactical, but as key takeaways or just as summary,
I just love to bring up this concept as a curiosity,
as an idea, as a place of inquiry, not as advice,
but the idea that triggers might be teachers. Perhaps something
in this podcast even triggered you. Perhaps there's a chance
(27:26):
for curiosity there. Reminding that the idea of if you
spot it, you got it is not about blame. It's
about opportunity, and it's about actually returning our power to ourselves,
inability to effect change in a positive way in our lives,
and that even where these things mirror painful things, or
these triggers point to uncomfortable parts of ourselves, those are
(27:47):
also opportunities. As Rumy said, the wound is the place
where the light enters you, and I would love to
hear your experience with this, if you've noticed anything similar,
if you have had any similar realizations in your life,
what those examples look like for you, or to hear
what topics questions guests you would like me to jump
(28:08):
into in future episodes of this podcast. I do read
every comment and rating and review as well as most
of my messages on Instagram, so it'd love for you
to reach out in any of those places, and I
would be deeply, deeply grateful if you would take two
minutes to leave an honest rating and review wherever you
listen to podcasts. This really helps other people to find
(28:28):
the podcast and helps to keep it going and growing,
and I'm always so grateful, And of course I'm grateful
for your time, your energy, and your attention for you
sharing on of those with me today, and I hope
that you will join me again on the next episode
of the Wellness Weama podcast. If you're enjoying these interviews,
(28:49):
would you please take two minutes to leave a rating
or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more
people to find the podcast, which means even more moms
and families can benefit from the information. I really appreciate
your time and thanks as always for listening
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