Masterclass: Mitochondria, Light, Phospholipids, and Cellular Health With Justine Stenger

Episode Transcript
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to the Wellness Mama podcast. I'm Katie from Wellnessmama dot
com and this was one of my favorite episodes to

(03:40):
record and if you listen, I know that you will
quickly see why I am here today with Justine Steger,
who is absolutely brilliant, and you will hear this when
she starts explaining things. I love her really first principles
approach to explaining things. I love how deeply she looks
at the science and how she can so clearly expl
plane the kind of myths and misconceptions behind a lot

(04:03):
of more commonplace health advice as well as kind of
what to do about it. And she has amazing Instagram
page and a course as well. I will link to
both where she kind of offers a deeper understanding of
a lot of things related to health and sort of
dismantles a lot of the myths that we hear often
but maybe are not complete stories. And she also trains

(04:24):
doctors actually and a lot of the things she's speaking
about today, and has just recently also made her programs
and information available to people who want to be their
own primary health care provider. As I often talk about
on here. She has a lot of functional medicine training.
Her resume is quite impressive, but what I love is
she specializes in fospholipids, fatty acid science, mitochondria medicine, and

(04:46):
teaches a comprehensive roadmap to mitochondrial restoration. And she explains
in this episode how much that really is kind of
the cornerstone to so many things when it comes to health.
Our clinical focus includes neurological can nis mass sell activation syndrome,
lime disease, and autoimmune disorders, and she has spent thirteen
years working alongside doctor Bruce Hoffman supporting hundreds of his

(05:09):
complex chronic illness patients through targeted and nutritional and mitochondrial interventions.
Like I said, she is brilliant and an absolute joy
to learn from. I know you will see why instantly.
So let's join her now. Chustine, Welcome and thank you
so much for being here. Thank you so much for
having me. I'm very excited about this conversation me too.
I am thrilled to finally get to have face to

(05:30):
FaceTime with you. I've come across your work so many times,
and I absolutely love how you challenge a lot of
the conventional conversations around different topics, but you do it
in a very fact backed and evidence based way, and
also with this like kindness and gentleness, and you're teaching
that I feel like helps people really understand. And so
I'm excited to tackle some of the topics I hear
you talk about today, and of course we'll link to

(05:52):
your work because you go so much deeper than we
could cover in one podcast. I also love that you're
willing to keep questioning and to even reevaluate your own
opinion about things as new information becomes available and as
you learn more. I think that's the mark of an
educated mind. And I love that you are so open
of your own learning as you go. And like I said,
so many of your topics are ones I'm excited to

(06:14):
learn more from you about today and especially under kind
of the umbrella of mitochondrial health. I've used the term
before nature deficit disorder as a kind of an umbrella
for a lot of the things we're experiencing in the
modern world. And whereas we try to like treat things
with a supplement or a quick fix or symptom treat
I feel like it's actually indicative of a much bigger issue,
which is that we're meant to live in harmony with nature,

(06:35):
or at least in alignment with the light cues and
the rhythms of nature, and we don't anymore. So again,
this is a huge topic, and you've talked about this.
I think you said coherence is born for relationship with light,
with water and with the earth and the unseen field
of intelliligence that governs every living thing, and how that
relates to mitochondria. So maybe as a background, can you
kind of give us a primer into mitochondria and how

(06:57):
they're influenced by these nature factors. Yeah, So my background
was really in cell membrane medicine. I studied fosphilipids and
fatty acids, and so it's been absolutely so fascinating to
learn more about the mitochondria and then integrate all of
the things that I've learned about fospholipids and fatty acids

(07:17):
into mitochondria medicine. But mitochondria are are way different than
I originally thought they were. We were taught that they're
the powerhouses of the cell. There are these little energy factories,
so very robot vodic, right, just pumping out ATP. And
the more and more that I learn about the mitochondria,

(07:37):
the less I see them through that lens. Yes, they
do make ATP, but they do so many other things.
And they really are these little sentient organelles. So they're
always sensing the environment. They're these electromagnetic sensors, and so
it's really opened my eyes to see. And Einstein actually
said this, the particle determined or the environ determines how

(08:01):
the particle behaves. And so that tells me that these
chronic illnesses that we see today, well, I think that
these are the majority are coming from an environmental issue.
This is not a supplement defficiency, like you said. It's
not going to be fixed by a pill or a
potion or a powder. It's really going to be fixed

(08:22):
by changing the environment that you're in. And included in
all of that is the light in dark cycles. Of course,
we want to make sure that we are drinking clean water,
we are connecting with the earth, we are walking barefoot,
we are outside in nature, we are mitigating exposure to
artificial light. You can see I'm outside on my computer.
I really strive to make sure that when I'm on technology,

(08:44):
I take it outside so that I'm not getting blasted
with artificial blue lights. And when you start to see
how through that lens you it becomes very obvious. Just
like you said, it's a disconnection from nature. We've lost
the ability to connect with these natural vibrations, the or
electromagnetic field, the electromagnetic spectrum that really controls everything that's

(09:08):
happening on a cellular level. We really are a body
of water that's regulated by light, and we put ourselves
into an alien light environment that is creating chaos on
a cellular level. So the mitochondria are really those sensors,
and depending on what they sense is going to determine
how all of the organelles within sl also behave. And

(09:30):
this is something that I've been studying more and more
intimately lately. Just because even when you understand fats that
are made in the body in the er or the
endoclasmic in particulum, that it's really the mitochondria that are
regulating er function, it's the mitochondria that are regulating the
proxosomal function, it's the mitochondria that are regulating the function
of all the organelles. So they all tie back into

(09:53):
the mitochondria. And Katie, if you look at doctor Doug Wallace,
so he's the lead researcher in the field of mitochondria research,
and he shows that ninety five to ninety nine percent
of the conditions that we see today are of mitochondrial origin.
So between one and five percent of the diseases that
we see are of true genetic origin. And so it's

(10:15):
interesting to observe this hyper focus on studying genetic snips
and treating snips and studying nuclear DNA. Trillions of dollars
are put into studying nuclear DNA when the majority of
the diseases that we see today are really stemming from
the mitochondria. That's fascinating, and that was the higher number

(10:36):
than I would have guessed by a lot, but also
to me really encouraging. Because seemingly that means we have
a lot more within our ability to affect change than
if it were more genetic based. So I'd love to
kind of explore it. Sounds like this is a complete
paradigm shift, likely for a lot of people listening to
think from kind of this mitochondrial first perspective and understand
them as sensors versus just like little batteries in our cells.

(10:58):
And so if we come from that perspective and we
can like make this paradigm shift, what do we need
to understand about our environment and about our mitochondria as
far as like kind of maybe biggest defenders things that
can they can sense in a bad way that are
negative or and or what are the most like positive
things we can do to send positive signals to our mitochondria. Yeah,
so I would say that the biggest assault to human

(11:20):
health today is definitely the exposure to non native mfs,
and blue light would be included under that umbrella. And
so when you think about I could talk about the
pathways all for the full hour, Katie, but when you
look at how detrimental blue light is to our health
from you know, damage to melanopsin receptor lens also pompsy

(11:40):
and how that impacts your immune system, your gut health,
your brain health, leftin how it's really impacting how your
ability to detect energy within the whole entire body, so
osteoblast and osteoclast activity. This is hormone health, this is
liver health. This is it's just connected to everything. And
your body runs on a twenty four hour light and

(12:01):
dark twenty four hour ish light and dark cycle. So
if we are not getting SYNCD with the sunrise first
thing in the morning and getting access to or getting
that light in our eyes first thing, and we are
not getting SYNCD with the sun throughout the day because
the wavelengths of light are changing all throughout the day
and giving us information through those photons, and then watching

(12:22):
the sunset and then making sure that our environment is
completely and totally dark after the sun goes down. Our
cells are not going to know what to do because
every single thing that takes place on a cellular level,
there's over one hundred thousand biophysical reactions that take place
every single second within the cell and these are all
dependent on timing mechanisms. So when your cells lose the

(12:44):
ability to know what time it is they it turns chaotic, right,
they don't know what to do or when to do
those things. So the light and dark cycles, I would say,
are most important. That's the foundation, that's kind of setting
the foundation for everything. And then of course we want
to make sure that we are getting outside and getting
exposure to sunlight. And this is for so many reasons.

(13:08):
First of all, as human beings, we were designed to
be connected to this infrared light really twenty four to seven,
so we were designed to be bathing in infrared light.
And infrared light plays so many different roles in the
body because it is supporting cytochromesy oxidase, so it's supporting
your ability to make metabolic water and supporting ATP production.

(13:29):
It is involved in hydration on a cellular level, so
it's expanding that exclusion zone water in your cells. There's
so many benefits to infrared light. And when we subcellular melatonin,
your mitochondria actually make subcellular melatonin when we're exposed to
infrared light. And when we put ourselves indoors, Katie, and
we don't have any exposure to infred light because when

(13:51):
we're inside and we're on a computer and we're sitting
under led lights, we're looking at our cell phone. There's
no the window closed, the air conditioning is on, there's
no infrared light in that indoor environment, and so our
cells are deprived of this essential nutrient that's required for
energy production, for cellular hydration, and so that's a massive assault.

(14:17):
And then we have UVB, you know UVB. When UVB
light hits our skin and we are able to synthesize
vitamin D from the cholesterol in our skin that that
vitamin D is activating. I believe that it's over ten
thousand different genes. And UVB light has many many other
benefits as well, specifically on a mitochondria level. So when

(14:38):
you start to study all these different wavelengths of light
and how they come only come from the sun because
we don't want them in isolation, it's the it's then
there's frequencies of light and in those optimal concentrations from
the sun that are having that biological effect on us
that you really can see that, of course, I mean

(14:59):
it's obvious horse we see all this chronic disease because
we've taken this living system that was designed to be
outdoors under this light all day and really all night
because we're still getting in fred light from moonlight designed
to be connected to the earth, collecting these electrons from
the Earth all day, and we've put that living system indoors.

(15:21):
We removed them from connecting with the Earth, we put
them under artificial light. We've taken away these healing wavelengths
of light that are critical for cellular health. And then
we wonder why people are sick. And then you know,
of course I could go on and on. We have
people that are watching TV, you know, after sunset, they're
looking at their cell phone, they're working on their computer,
they keep their lights on. So we've completely ignored these

(15:45):
laws of nature. We've moved away from them. And then
you know, then we go to our functional medicine doctor
and we get put on a parasite glens. You know,
be good. It just doesn't make any sense when when
the things that we need to change are the way
that we are living and breathing and moving in the
world and reconnecting back from the source that we came from.

(16:05):
The more and more that we separate from that, the
sticker and sicker we're going to become. And we see
that today absolutely, and I think the light piece gets
underestimated often because of its simplicity, and I definitely have
experienced firsthand how when you do this consistently it can
make such a drastic difference. And when I was before,
I understood a lot of this, and I was trying
to reverse my hashimotos, I was so tired and fatigued.

(16:26):
Often this was one of the first steps I did
was just to make myself get up at sunrise and
I would just go sit and a lounge, share it
in my backyard, but in the natural light, and hydrate
and just that little baby step. Over time, I started
noticing changes and noticing more energy. That gave me more
bandwidth to start doing the other things. And I feel
like to your point, I would love to expound on

(16:47):
this more. We're often told by functional medicine doctors, you
know our vitamin d's low, take a supplement, But a
supplement can never replicate all the things you just talked about,
And at least in my anecdotal experience, my vitamin D
was always super low. I took it did absolutely nothing, like,
didn't raise my vitamin D levels at all. And it
wasn't until I got some of these things that you
talk about, so well and explain so well on Instagram

(17:09):
that I'll put some of those videos in the show notes.
But I got my healthy fats dialed in, I got
light exposure dialed in. I got the cofactors and things
that I needed to actually be able to synthesize it myself,
and I spent a lot of time outside in the sun. Now,
my vitamin d's eighty six and I don't take any supplements,
but I would love for you to expound of why
it's so much more than just a supplement or just
about vitamin D, and how a supplement can never replicate this. Well. Yeah,

(17:32):
and I love how you had that personal experience as well,
because I mean, there are a handful of people that
I've talked to you that say, oh, they feel so
much better when they are taking vitamin D supplements, And
I think that it's probably because it's silencing certain pathways
that wouldn't be silenced without that exogynous supplement. But it's
so important to remember that vitamin D is a photo
electric signal that your body makes under very specific conditions.

(17:54):
So it requires sunlight, it requires hydration, it requires redocs,
and it requires nitric oxide production, and it requires sulfation.
So it's not just about getting D into your bloodstream.
It's about your body knowing exactly how and when to
make that vitamin D. And when you take a pill,
you're bypassing all of that, so you're not fixing a deficiency,

(18:17):
you're actually ignoring the entire operating system. And then a
lot of people will say that taking you know, K
two with D three is what's important, and so as
long as you have combined D three with K two,
then you're covered. But that is that doesn't make it neutral, right,
It just it actually makes I think the marketing just

(18:37):
look a lot smarter and convinces a lot more people
that the D three K two supplement is superior. So
it's really important for people to understand that our body
doesn't run on those isolated inputs. This is like a beautiful,
magical web of intelligence. And when we are making vitamin
D through sunlight exposure, you know, we're making cholesterol sulfate,

(18:59):
we're supporting nitric oxide production, we're expanding that exclusion zone water,
we're activating all of these genes, so it's you know,
it's improving our genetics epigenetically, which is why you see
so many improvements in health long term when people move
to like the Equator or to Florida where you live,
and they're getting so much more of that of that sunlight. So, yeah,
you can't replace all of those things that are that

(19:21):
are taking place through you know, a synthetic vitamin D supplement. Unfortunately,
I wish that it was that easy. Yeah. Well, and
I love that because it gives us that broader perspective.
And I love how well you explain all of those
things and how it's kind of this beautiful symphony that
works brilliantly that our bodies know how exactly how to
do when we simply support them in the way that

(19:41):
they are asking to be supported. And it brings up
a couple of smaller questions I would love to tackle.
One being you here often like, oh, it's not good
to get in the sun too much because then you
can get cataracts from the UV. And also like every
time I post about getting sunlight, I get the people saying,
I hope you're wearing sunscreen and sunglasses and all these
things I would love for you to touch on briefly. Yeah,
So I'm actually vehemently opposed to both sunscreen and sunglasses

(20:05):
except for a couple of isolated situations. If you're skiing,
of course, the glare from you know, the snow into
your eyes can be damaging, so I would recommend wearing
goggles when skiing. And then also when you're on the water,
the glare from the water can be a lot brighter
than just the sun, but we want that light to
come into our eyes. So it's been interesting to study,
you know, this whole narrative that UV light is harmful

(20:27):
when we actually have like these neuropsin receptors that are
that are absorbing this UV light and they're that's intimately
connected to our circadian regulation. And then you see all
these other benefits to UV too. You know, we have
been told that it damages DNA, but that little damage
to those DNA strands are actually upregulating all these repair processes.
So I do believe that UV light in isolation is

(20:50):
definitely hazardous and we want to avoid that. So tanning
beds and you know these, I guess tanning beds would
probably be the most common exposure to that isolated form
of UV light, as in the sun, we're never getting
isolated UV right, We have between forty three and fifty
percent of the light that comes from the sun is
red and infrared, and then we have all these other

(21:11):
wavelengths of light, and the UV is you know, maybe
eight to ten percent, kind of depending on the time
of year. So it's a very very small percentage of
the full spectrum of sunlight. And it's absolutely necessary that
UV light. So that is why I don't recommend wearing sunglasses. Also,
when we're wearing sunglasses, we're blocking out those wavelights, So

(21:32):
I mean we're regulated by light. So it's basically you know,
doctor jat Cruise uses this analogy and it's excellent. It's
basically like putting a tarp over an orange tree and
expecting orange to be produced, oranges to be produced, and
so it's the same thing with us, Like if we're
putting a tarp over our eyes, we can't expect to
have optimal thyroid function, optimal hormones across the board, you know,
optimal energy, nitric oxide production, optimal gut health, because that

(21:54):
light that's absorbed through our skin and through our eyes
is you know, responsible for activating really I mean, I
would say everything that's happening within the body, it's really
light is regulating all of it. And then with sunscreen,
you know what concerns me a lot with sunscreen is
that so I prefer just so that everybody knows. Obviously,
we don't want to go out and get burnt like

(22:15):
a lobster. But you have probably had this experience when
you go out for sunrise and you provide that information
through the light that you're exposed to. Your brain knows, oh,
it's getting hot, and we need to make sure that
we start making melanin so that we can you know,
protect from the UV light or use that UV light
more efficiently. I should say I shouldn't use the word protect.

(22:38):
And when we put sunscreen on, we're really blocking, like
we're creating an alien sun that's hitting our skin right
because we're blocking specific wavelengths of light and we're not
blocking other wavelengths of light. So I think that that
is incredibly problematic. And you know, we through a you know,
conventional lens, they kind of reduce that down to, well,
if we block the UV, which we've claimed is harmful,

(22:58):
and you're letting in the other waves of light, then
then sun exposure is not going to be dangerous. But
I believe that it's the opposite of that, because we
weren't designed to block out specific wavelengths of light and
not block out others. We were designed to full to
absorb the full spectrum of sunlight. So I say, go
in the shade, if you've had too much sun, put
a shirt on, if you've had too much sun, put
a visor on, if you need to block the sun

(23:21):
from your face. But we want to absorb as many
of those photons as humanly possible. That was such a
good explanation of that, and my understanding I haven't gone
super deep on this, but a lot of those studies
that showed that UV was damaging were done with UV
and isolation in a lab setting with isolated cells and
a Petrie dish, Whereas, like you said, in the sun
that's only a small percentage. Even in the bright part

(23:42):
of the day, you're still getting that full kind of
symphony of light that our bodies know how to play
music with. And so if we block part of it,
like we're making a disharmonic music with the natural light
that's there and available. And you also mentioned and I
feel like this is a perfect springboard into another topic
that you cover so well that some people have a
light problem or like a more base mitochondrial problem, and

(24:04):
then they get put on a parasite cleanse or detox
and those are certainly all the rage also on social
media right now. But I would love for you to
talk about detox in the context of the body actually
already knowing how to do that perfectly, and how do
we support that versus thinking of it as an external
thing that we like do to our body. So I
just want to say quickly, just going back to the light,

(24:26):
that every single study that I've read Katie on UV
light being harmful is done on isolated EUV light and
they're either blasting like hairless rats with this light in
a lapse setting or yeah, it's in a petri dish,
but often you know they're blasting this light into you know,
mice or rat's eyes or onto their bodies, and then

(24:48):
they're saying EV light causes cancer. So just so everybody
understands that we never receive light in that way from
the sun, so it's really we can't even translate that
to you know, sunlight exposure. Now, I will say that
because of we have really weaponized our environment against us,
right because of the current environment that we live in.
It's so riddled with non native vmfs, and we you know,

(25:12):
we are up against a lot. So when it comes
to you know, burning and the oxidative stress that comes
along with that, you know, that is something that I
do believe that we want to make sure that we're
avoiding and we are building that solar callus. It's another
word that doctor dot Cruise uses to really make sure
that we have that resilience to that strong sunlight exposure.

(25:33):
And now when it comes to detoxification, this is such
an interesting one to observe in this whole you know,
field of wellness, functional medicine, and integrated medicine, because I believe,
I mean, this is just how I see it, whether
or not it's true for everybody or not, we have
kind of gotten to this place where we think that
we need to force healing, that we need to you know,

(25:56):
give these echoes external things, whether it's some sort of
protocol or you know, all these different pills and potions
to force things out of the body. And not that
I don't think that there's a time and a place
for some detoxification support the idea that the body doesn't
know how to detoxify on its own is just absolute lunacy. Right.
This really comes down to a redox issue. You're not

(26:19):
able to detoxify. That is because you've lost your voltage.
You have poor redos and that is why you're not detoxifying.
This has nothing to do with being you know, charcoal
efficient or you know, all these herbs and tinctures that
are taken for these parasite cleanses. These these toxins that
have accumulated in your system are just going to accumulate

(26:39):
again once you finished whatever protocol you're on if you
don't work on the very foundation and ultimately that is
building mitochondrial function, building up that redox potential, improving that voltage.
And you know, this is one of the many reasons
why I'm such a huge supporter of not only you know,
all of this circadian biology principles, making sure that we

(26:59):
are mitigating non native vmfs and we're protecting our environment
from these really harmful those are mitochondrial toxins. And we
are nourishing ourselves with food that is locally grown and
is seasonal, and you know, we're really providing everything that
we do, we want to make sure that our mitochondria
are sensing safety, right, and when they scent safety this

(27:21):
cell and the cell is healthy, we have no issue
removing these toxins from the cell and making sure that
they don't even get into the cell. So when you
have a healthy membrane, So it's going to say that
this is where I've been really interested in understanding the
synergistic relationship between the phospholipids and fatty acids that are
found within the membrane and that exclusion zone water that

(27:43):
builds inside the cell, and the voltage and how when
we have strong voltage and we have this good structure
and good fluidity within the membrane, and your membranes are
vibrating at this really really high frequency that you know,
toxins are not able to penetrate that area. And then
we have this really incredible ability to get nutrients into
the cell and to escort waste out of the cell

(28:06):
as well. So it's about flow. Detoxification is about flow,
and healing is about flow and regaining coherence. It's not
about force. I love that, and I feel like this
ties into the late conversation too, because I've seen you
say that a melanin plays a central role as well,
not just like a pigment, which is what we sometimes
reduce it to, is like, oh, it's a pigment that

(28:27):
makes your skin look darker. But as I think, you
called it a biological semiconductor, which I loved because you
often hear that myth. At least I think it's a
myth that, like any tanning, any sign of your skin
darkening is a sign of skin damage from the sign,
which I don't agree with personally at all. But I
would love to talk a little bit more about melanin
because I feel like it's so misunderstood and it's a
bad rap. Yeah, so melanin is really interesting, and the

(28:49):
more and more that I learn about melanin, the more
fascinated I am about that as well, because I really
think that getting a good ten is probably one of
the most protective things that we can do in the
current environment that we live because of all the properties.
And yes, it is a heavy metal key later, so
if you want to support detoxification and preventing those heavy
metals from accumulating, build that strong tan because that's your

(29:13):
number one protection. But there's so many properties to melanin.
I mean, when you know light hits melanin, it generates electrons,
and so this is like a direct readoc support. You're
directly supporting your ability to make energy. You're supporting the
ability for your mitochondria to make that metabolic water. That
is ultimately where we're getting hydrated, right, Katie. The you know,

(29:34):
this whole hydration conversation to that started around drinking water. Drink.
You know, eight glasses of water a day or half
your body weight in ounces per day is pretty arbitrary.
It's that hydration is ultimately coming from how well your
mitochondria are able to make metabolic water, and then how
how you're living and breathing and moving through the world.

(29:57):
The environment that you're in is going to do determine
how well that water can structure and stay structured. And
so you know that's that's the role that melanin plays
in helping to support mitochondrial function ultimately and then protecting
you from even when it comes to exposure to non
native ms. Right, Melanin is protective. So the more tanned

(30:19):
you are, the more resilient you're going to be against
the environment. Again, like I said that we've weaponized against us.
So like I said before, with you be light, Yes,
there is that you know, slight DNA damage that occurs,
and that upregulates all kinds of repair processes, so it's
it's hermetic, it's not pathological. It seems like such an

(30:39):
important piece to understand, and it's often misunderstood and that
we miss kind of the forest of the trees when
we avoid tanning because of that like mild DNA damage
that happens, and ignore the fact that is the cascade
that then leads to all these positive things that our
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the full body nourishment they need. And you've mentioned a
couple of times posphilipids and sell membranes, and I know
this is something that you are deeply researched in and
probably one of the top experts in the world on
So I would love to learn from you on this

(34:36):
because I feel like this is not even hardly talked about,
much less understood and kind of ignored a lot of
the conversation related to health when people are just taking
supplements and throwing things at like kind of an a
symptom based approach. So I know this is a massive topic,
but can you kind of walk us through a background
of phospholipids and fats within the body and cellular membranes. Yes, yes,

(34:57):
and you will say Katie too. If anyone's interested in
learning more about this, I do have a two and
a half hour webinar that's free on my Instagram page
and my link in bio, so it is for anybody
that really wants to do a deep dive in this.
But phospholipids are basically what we are thirty seven trillion
cells in the body. We have about two hundred different
cell types, and you know five hundred trillion mitochondria and

(35:19):
trillions of organelles, and the every single membrane on every
single one of those cells is made of phospholipids and
a phospholipid molecule. If I go through PHOSPHATITYL coline, it
has a polar head group, it has a phosphate group,
it sits on a glycerol backbone, which is a three
carbon backbone, and then it has two fatty acid tails.
And those two fatty acid tails are coming from the

(35:40):
dietary fats that we consume. So we have essential fatty
acids that are required that we cannot synthesize anddogenously. So
that would be linolaic acid, Omega six, an alpha linolenic acid,
or the plant based form of omega three. So those
are called our two essential parent oils. Those are signaling molecule.
Linolaic acid is one of the main fatty acids found

(36:03):
within the membrane, so it's a structural component. We are
making allibiicosinoids through those parent oils and they're also signaling molecules.
So phospholipids when you look at the different cell types,
depending on the cell type, is going to determine the
concentrations of phospholipids found in that membrane. But on the
outer membrane, say of a liver cell, we're looking at
about seventy percent phosphatytyl coline. When we look at a neuron,

(36:27):
it's a roughly sixty percent phosphatyl coline. The epithelial cells
that make up that got mucosa ninety percent phosphatatal coline.
So depending on the cell type is going to determine
the concentration concentrations of these phospholipids. And then in the
inner membrane, so every one of our cells has two
lipid bilayers. So the outer membrane is mainly phosphatytyl coline,

(36:49):
the inner membrane is mainly phosphatyl ethanolamine, phosphatyl inocetol, and
phosphattal cerine, and those are making up the structure of
the membrane. So if we have a break down of
those phospholipids because we have poor redox we have high
levels of oxidative stress, we have you know, lipid peroxidation,
and we've lost reserve capacity, so our body is not

(37:10):
able to keep up with the demand in synthesizing those
lipids fast enough to repair that damage. We're going to
end up with really poor cellular health. And then when
we think about this on a mitochondria level, where we
make energy, that is happening on the phosphatidyl ethanolamine membrane,
and so the mitochondria also has two lipid bilayers. The

(37:31):
outer membrane is rich in phosphatyl coline. That inner membrane
where oxide of phosphorylation occurs, is rich in phosphatitylthanolamine. There's
another phospholipid that sits on top, which is called the cardiolypin,
which is housing our protein complexes Complex one, Complex three,
Complex four, and ATPAS. So if anybody is not familiar,

(37:51):
those protein complexes are the complexes that move those electrons
through the electron transport chain so that you can make
metabolic water, and you can make ergy, and like I
mentioned before, the mitochondria do so many other things. They're
involved in your nate immune system, your adaptive immune system.
They're apigenetically, you know, regulating your nuclear DNA. The list
goes on and on, fission and fusion and mitophogy. So

(38:15):
we want to make sure that we have the lipids
intact in those membranes in order for us to efficiently
move those electrons through the electron transport chain. Because when
the membrane becomes damaged and those protein complex no longer
have that nice home to sit in, they become more
susceptible to damage as well, and then we have a
deficiency in bio energetics, and a deficiency in bio energetics,

(38:36):
based on doctor Doug Wallace's work, is what determines your
susceptibility to disease. Right as soon as we start making
less energy, we're more likely to develop disease. And that's
going to depend on you know, the tissue or the
organ or the system in which we have that energy deficit.
So the lipids are everything. They're incredibly important. And I

(38:59):
love that. I feel like that was like Masters or
PhD level, but you explain it so well that it's understandable,
and it seems like understanding that is the foundational totally
reframes also how we think of things like supplements like fats,
like dietary, like what we're consuming in our diet and
how much of each one. And I know there's a
lot of nuance that you talk about online, and I'll
link to your Instagram and to that webinar so people

(39:21):
can find it. I'm definitely going to go through that
webinar myself. But I would guess there's a lot to
understand in that realm that people maybe get wrong, especially
when it comes to things like fish oil and supplemental
colin and what breakdown of dietary fats actually is supportive
of our body. So I'd love to kind of start
delving into that world of like when we start to
understand these pospholipids and the phosphatal colin and all that, like,

(39:43):
how do we actually support these in the body? Knowing
that the body knows what it's doing, how do we
offer it the best support? Yeah, so, I mean all
the foundational things are key, right. This is Katie, where
I have struggled a little bit in merging these two
fields of expertise because I don't want people to think,
you know, we have this whole field of people kind
of in the quantum biology that are preaching that all

(40:03):
we need to do is go This may be a
little bit simplistic, but basically saying all we need to
go and do is sit out and sit side in
the sun, right and we're going to be peeled. And
that's one piece of it for sure. We definitely, like
we've talked about, it is absolutely imperative for us to
be you know, outdoors and getting exposure to that sunlight
for you know, as much of the day as possible,

(40:24):
whether that's in the direct sun or that's in the shade,
whatever feels best for you. And we want to make
sure that we have got those light in dark cycles
on point. So we are getting up for sunrise, we're
outside every morning, we're watching UVA rise. We're activating all
of those aromatic amino acids so that we're making all
of our nurow transmitters, all of our hormones, we're supporting
our circadian regulation, optimizing all of those biophysical reactions that

(40:48):
are taking place in a cellular level. So that's you know, foundational.
And then when it comes to supporting ourselves with the
right fat is, I would say, you know next because
because that is truly if we especially when we look
at the essential fatty acids, Katie, because the essential fatty
acids and you know, poor line laic acid has got

(41:09):
such a bad rap because of what we've done to
linelaic acid in the food system. But there's so many
people that are you know, following a low fat diet
because their doctors told them that they have high cholesterol
and or high LP little I and so it's important
for them to eat low fat. And so now they're
actually depriving their cells. Are the very structural components that
they need to build healthy cells and to have healthy

(41:32):
energy production. And so really focusing on the essential fatty
acids first. So we want to make sure that we
are getting in those essential nutrients because those are a
non negotiable right our body can't make those. So if
we are lacking those, we have a deficiency, or we
don't have them in the optimal quantities, then our body
is going to be really compromised. And I won't go

(41:54):
too much into the weeds around this, but there's you know,
things happen like we get this production of I know,
megan nine fatty acid called MEAD, which is really categorized
or renegade fatty acid. It's not you know, really biologically active.
We'd basically just make that as a compensation of a
fatty acid deficiency, and then that gets slotted into membranes

(42:14):
where essential fatty acids should go. That's going to change
the quantum behavior of the membrane. That changes the semi
conductive properties in the membrane, That changes the voltage of
the membrane, that changes the ability for that water to
structure properly along the surface of the membrane. And so
you know, when we start to look at fatty acids
through this lens, we see, Okay, we want to make

(42:35):
sure that we're giving our body the essential nutrients that
it requires to do the work that it was designed
to do. And this is a lot of what I
teach Katie. It's like, let's not try to target every
biochemical pathway with an exogenous nutraceutical or a peptide or
whatever it may be. Let's just actually look at, Okay,
what does the living system need to thrive, and let's

(42:55):
make sure that that living system has all of those
things that it needs to thrive. Because because the body
is so much more intelligent than we will ever understand
or give it credit for, and it knows exactly what
to do when you give it what it needs. And
so we want to start with those fats. Of course,
we always want to be consuming raw, pure forms of
these essential fatty acids. So whether that's from raw seeds,

(43:18):
sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, hemp seeds are all
excellent sources of those essential fatty acids, specifically, linolaic acid.
Egg yolks are an excellent source. Organ meats are also
an excellent source for people that are not eating an
abundance of seeds. And then on the omega three side,
alpha linylenic acid will find that in flax and chia,

(43:41):
in walnuts, those are the most abundant. We also find
that in cruciferous vegetables and some other leafy greens. So
if you're eating locally and seasonally in the summertime, we're
going to be getting lots of alpha linolenic acid. And
we actually don't need a lot of that fatty acid.
It's not abundant in the membrane. Its main roles are
signaling and you know, very very low conversion but to

(44:02):
convert to EPA and ultimately DHA. So we want to
start there, and then we want to make sure that
we are eating locally and seasonally and focusing our diet
around bioavailable animals so that we're getting in all those
structural fats palmitic, steric, mouristic, palmetolaic, those fats that come
from animal foods that are providing our membranes with structure.

(44:24):
So the saturated fats provide structure, the polyunsaturated fatty acids
provide fluidity and flexibility to the membrane, so that we
are able to proceed with all of those incredible cellular
functions that take place, and a lot of people, Katie
forget that the membrane. If you look at doctor Bruce
Lipton's work, he explains as beautifully, the membrane is the
brain of the cell. Everything is happening on the membrane.

(44:46):
So we have all of our proteins, all of our peptides,
all of our ion channels, all of our receptors, everything
is on the membrane. So if we have a breakdown
on a membrane level, we need to think of that
as we are going to have a breakdown on every
level within the body when the membrane breaks down. So
the fats are so so, so key. And then of
course when it comes to all you know, when I

(45:08):
go back to the beginning of our conversation when we
were talking about just the mitochondria and the characteristics of
the mitochondria, and I mentioned that the mitochondria are really
signaling to all of these organelles how safe it is
to proceed with our organelle function. When the mitochondria have
those fats in the membrane, we have optimal levels of

(45:30):
those phospholipids and the inner membrane, we have optimal amounts
of linelaic acid in the cardiolipin because lineleic acid is
the main signaling to all of these ornells. How safe
it is to proceed with our organelle function When the
mitochondria have those fats in the membrane, we have optimal
levels of those phospholipids, and the inner membrane. We have

(45:51):
optimal amounts of linolaic acid in the cardiolipin. Because lineleic
acid is the main fatty acid found in the cardiolipin,
that phospholipid that sits on top of that ethanol imane membrane.
Then we're able to optimize bio energetics, and that's going
to ultimately help to optimize the function of every single
one of these organelles. I'm emphasizing this right now, Katie,

(46:11):
because I was reading some papers yesterday. I'm building out
a lipid course for some practitioners right now, and I
was reading about the endoplasmic reticulum and specifically tudca. So
tutska is a bio salt and it has signaling properties.
It also has properties of chaperone properties, and so some
of the properties of tutca are you know, the signaling

(46:33):
properties helped to reduce the stress on the endoplasmic reticulum,
and so papers show that it improves protein folding and
improves lipid folding. And of course we can use you know,
things like tutca kind of as a band aid for sure,
or as a temporary, you know, crutch, But ultimately the
ability for the endoplasmic particulum, like the er and the
mitochondria are linked like with a membrane, and so when

(46:56):
the mitochondria are not optimized, the endoplasmic reticulum is not
going to be to properly fold those proteins and ful
those lipids. So again it ties back into okay, how
can we improve mitochondrial function so that we can ultimately
improve everything that's taking place within the cell. And that
once we improve everything that's taking place within the cell,
then we're improving the health of that tissue, the health

(47:16):
of that organ, and ultimately, you know, the overall state
of health and hopefully the prevention of any disease. Process.
It was an amazing explanation and it brings up two
topics that are a little bit controversial that I would
love to delve into the first one. I know you've
covered this on Instagram. I've seen your videos, but the
first one being fish oil because certainly a lot of
people are told by health practitioners to take fish oil

(47:38):
and that omega threes are very important, and I know
there's more to the story than that. But when it
comes to fish oil, how does that come into play
with fossilipids and everything you just explained. Okay, I'm gonna
have to You're gonna have to rain me in talking
about fish oil because I get so heated, and also
I didn't even finish I got so excited talking about
all the organelles. I want to just say too, when
it comes to the fats, mono one saturated if fatty

(47:59):
acids are a big component. Olayic acid specifically is also
a big component of the membrane. But I do want
everyone to know that olaic acid that'll make a nine
that's rich in olive oil or Macadamian nuts or pine nuts,
many seeds and nuts contained as well olives. It is
made in the body, So that's made through steeric acid,
so steric acid that we would get through you know,

(48:20):
animal products, that also is going to get desaturated into
olaic acid. So for people that have been told that
they need to be taking shots of olive oil, you
don't need to take shots at olive oil. Your body
knows how to make that. Nothing wrong with consuming it,
but we don't need to overdo it. Now. Fish oil
is where do I start with fish oil? Because there's

(48:42):
so many problems with it. You know. I heard a
really well known PhD talk about this on an interview recently,
and I was ready to turn power my phone right
off because she was saying that, you know, because of
the toxicity, and fish is actually superior to be consuming
EP and DHA from fish oil, which, in my opinion

(49:03):
and understanding from years and years of studying these fatty acids,
is absolute lunacy. So in nature, ep and DHA are
always found within a whole food matrix within fish, so
they're always attached to a sulfur containing amino acid. They
are always in a matrix of antioxidant inside of an
e acidsampin all of these, you know, protective molecules because

(49:26):
they are so so susceptible to oxidation. So DHA is
your most biologically oxide of molecule in biology it's the
most oxyde of molecule in biology. Excuse me. It has
six double carbon bonds. So this idea that we can
extract these fatty acids from fish using chemicals and solvents,

(49:46):
I think a lot of people just assume, oh, fish
oil must be just like you know, we squeeze an
orange and we get some orange juice out, or we
squeeze a lemon and we get some lemon juice out,
and so it must be similar with fish. Well, it's
not the case with fish at all. It requires chemical
extraction and heat and solvents to get those fatty acids
out of the fish into the capsule or into the bottle.

(50:09):
And when you expose those fatty acids to any one
of those things or all the above, I really do
think that it's virtually impossible to not have an end
product with lipid peroxidation with those fatty acids being completely oxidized.
And then if anyone can kind of understand, just from
my brief explanation around fatty acids, like those fatty acids

(50:31):
are getting pulled into the phospholipid pool within your membrane,
and if you're pulling in oxidative fatty acids and DHA
is specifically found in the brain and in THEI. You
can only imagine the catastrophic consequences of that long term.
So that's you know, the oxidation the aspect of fish
oil is a big concern for me. And again you

(50:52):
have all these companies that you know are adding lemon
juice and orange flavoring to the fish oil so that
it doesn't smell that. Those to me are just more
science as to hinting that that oil is likely oxidized.
Now when it comes to you the consumption of these
and how it impacts the fatty acids in our body, this,

(51:14):
you know, has even more catastrophic consequences because when we
look at the two essential fatty acid pathways linelaic and
alphalinolnic and those downstream metabolites. So if anyone's not familiar
with the pathways on the linelaic acid side lineolaic goes
into gamolinolnic or g LA, that goes into dihomogammolinolenic or

(51:34):
d g LA that goes into a racodonic acid that
goes into adrenic acid, and adrenic acid is found in
much lower concentrations. It's found in neural tissue in mylin,
but not a major component of membranes. On the omega
three side, we have alphalinelenic acid, so that's a plant
based form of omega three, and then that gets converted
down into EPA and DHA. The conversion is very poor

(51:57):
you're looking at you know, between one and two percent
it would get converted to DHA. So it's really necessary
for us to support not only the parent oils but
also those downstream metabolites. Now, when we consume a whole
bunch of one side of the essential fatty acids, so
say we are taking a gram of fish oil every day,

(52:17):
what happens is we end up monopolizing the delta six
and the delta five desaturase enzyme. So basically we create
kind of a bottleneck effect where we're not able to
now convert the omega six side to those downstream metabolites.
So what happens is the higher we dose those omega threes,
the more we're going to suppress those omega sixes. Now,
we have four main fatty acids that are found within

(52:39):
the cell membrane. Linolaic acid is number one of racodonic
acid on the omega six side olaic acid and then DHA.
So what we have done now by overdoing the fish
oil is now we've suppressed two of the four main
fatty acids that are found within our membranes. And remember
DHA is primarily found in the brain and in the eye.

(53:00):
It's not abundant in other cell types. It's the highest
concentrations are in the brain and eye, which the eye
is part of the brain. So that becomes a big
problem because then we end up with excessive omega three
a depletion of those omega sixes. We end up with
too much fluidity within the membrane. When we have too
much fluidity within the membrane, that creates kind of a leakiness.
So if you think about, you know, this whole era

(53:22):
that everyone's been treating, leaky gut, we kind of facilitate
that on a cellular level because we really facilitate like
leaky cells by just overdoing the omega threes and adding
too much fluidity to the membrane. Also DH when we
consume excessive amounts of DHA, that can displace linolaic acids.
A remember it said that linelaic acid is one of
the main faty acids found in the cardioid is the

(53:45):
main faty acid found in the cardiolitthin in the mitochondria,
and dh can when we overdo it, can displace linelaic
acid from that pospholipid, and then that creates big problems
on a mitochondria level because that DHA is so highly
susceptible to oxide. And if anyone even know it's a
little bit about the mitochondria, we are generating you know,

(54:05):
reactive auxygen species just through through normal metabolism in the mitochondria.
So those fatty acids are going to be much more
susceptible to lip it proxidation than linelaic acid, which has
two double carbon bonds. So we really have taken this
myopic focus on you know, omega three's because we think
that they're inflammatory and what they do too, like speaking

(54:27):
of just silencing pathways or silencing genes. So what happens
is when we are consuming high amounts of ep and dha,
epa directly competes with the racodonic acid, So that's going
to directly suppress a rackadonic acid. If a rackadonic acid
is high, and a rackadonic acid is going to activate
those locks. And cox pathways, those inflammatory pathways. So we're

(54:48):
not fixing anything, right, Katie, We're just improving lab markers.
And this is you've probably heard me talk about this again.
It's like we're silencing lab markers and then we are
kind of patting our self on the back for this
lab that is improved, but we haven't done anything to
fix the engine, which is ultimately where we want to
be focusing on. There's so many other problems with omega threes,

(55:12):
even just from you know, the resolve and protecting Marison standpoint,
do we really I mean, again, this is my perspective
of helping people to understand health and what health is
and how to how to maintain it long term. Your
body knows exactly when to resolve inflammation, and so when
we are taking all these exogenous, you know, inflammation resolving agents,

(55:35):
that again is trying to force healing before the body
is actually ready to proceed with that. And this all
ties in Katie. I don't know if you're familiar with
doctor Robert Naudio's work, but he really depicts as beautifully
in his papers because when he talks about the cell
danger response, how we have this healing cycle that we
go through, you know, on a regular basis, the CDR one,

(55:56):
CDR two, CDR three, and then when we get sick,
when there's them an assault, the mitochondria gets stuck in
say CDR one, and it's a state of you know, threat.
And when it's stuck in CDR one, we see all
of these metabolic shifts occur. So we see you know,
a down regulation of methylation, detoxification, et cetera, hormone production,

(56:17):
and so that's strategic, right. And then we as practitioners
in this whole you know, wellness field, go and we
target the individual that has poor methylation and we pump
them with B vitamins to help to support methylation, or
we push detoxification because we see, you know, their detoxification
pathways are shut down. And that's all like a natural
and completely necessary shift because the cell is threatening danger.

(56:40):
So those are not the priorities, right. The priority is
to protect the horse host from harm. And then I
believe our priority as a clinicition is to now make
sure that that patient is receiving all of the safety
signals that are required for the mitochondria to now perceive okay,
it's safe, the environment is safe. We can proceed through
these stages CDR one, CDR two, CDR three and get

(57:03):
back to the healing cycle. We don't need to stay
stuck in this phase. So again it's just going back
to really emphasizing, you know, the importance of flow when
it comes to healing, not you know, forcing things, because
it could be you know, creating more of a problem
than not when we look at the human body through
that like solely biochemical lens. I think people can understand

(57:25):
why I'm such a fan of you when you like
explain things so well like that, And I think what
you just said just now is so important to reiterate
is like healing is not a thing we do to
our body. Healing is a thing the body naturally knows
how to do. And the more we can understand that,
the more we can befriend our body in that process
and support it versus trying to like from the outside
and force this process that then now it has to

(57:45):
like mitigate on other levels that I know. Another area again,
this could be its own whole podcast probably is the
topic of cholesterol. And it seems like we've gotten so
many things backwards when it comes to we think visu
oil equals good, cholesterol equals bad. And I love this
quote you said that total cluster over two hundred isn't pathological.
It's often a signal of metabolic competence. It's a marker
of a nervous system with reserve mitochondria is still making

(58:07):
enough pregnant alone as steroid hormones and brain lipids. And
I would love for you to just briefly kind of
give us a primer on cholesterol, because my parents are
now hitting that age where they're being told like cholesterol
is bad if they clearly they're not open to taking
any kind of medication that would alter that. But I
feel like people aren't given the whole story here either. No,
I mean this is another example. I mean, this is
probably one of like the primary examples that we could

(58:28):
use of like a very reductionist stance on the human body,
and this belief that high cholesterol is a cause of
cardiovascular events and cardiovascular disease. So cholesterol first and foremost,
I think just to understand the importance of it in
the body is that it's you know, main, it's supportive
to ourselves. We needed in our cell membranes. It's stabilizing
our cell membranes. So with low cholesterol, we're going to

(58:50):
be compromised on a cellular level. This includes you know,
an mitochondrial level. It is one of the main lipids
is found within my land. So if anybody is familiar
with like demielinating diseases, you often see very low bubbles
of cholesterol in these individuals. So we want to think,
of course, there's a lot more to it. This is
simplifying it greatly, but when we think about supporting the brain,

(59:12):
we want to make sure that the brain has all
the lipids that it needs to support, you know, neural tissue,
both gray matter and white matter, and cholesterol is a
main component of both gray matter and white matter, but
very very high levels in white matter. We need cholesterol
to make all our hormones, We need cholesterol to make bile,
you know, which is delivering all these essential fats to

(59:33):
ourselves so that we can support them. I mean, there's
so it's so crazy, Katie to see that, you know
where we've got with this whole conversation around cholesterol, because
ultimately cardiovascular disease is an issue, it's mitochadrial disease, and
that when you look in the literature is it's very
relevant or it's very obvious that it's an energy deficit.

(59:54):
We see, you know, a loss of that exclusion zone water,
we see the cellular dehydration, and we are blaming cholesterol
for you know, the basically I use this analogy that
it would be like blaming virenmen for showing up at
the fire. So cholesterol is not the problem. Now, there
are definitely situations in which the body is going to

(01:00:14):
upregulate cholesterol production. I talk about this a lot in
my lipid trainings, where you know, low levels of phosphatatl
coline specifically because phosphatital coline does regulate that whole cholesterol
kind of feedback loop. So when there's low levels of
phosphatitl coline, you do see the liver up regulate cholesterol
production so that it can go in and patch those
areas of the membrane with cholesterol where you know phosphatatl

(01:00:37):
coline should be. So phosphotatl coline is a really supportive
tool for helping to regulate cholesterol levels and so you know,
really really high cholesterol like HYPERCHOLESTEROLINEA. Are there situations in
which we may need to use medical interventions to lower
in some situations possibly, but ultimately it's not a cholesterol problem,

(01:00:58):
it's or redox problem. So we want to work building
que chondrial function. We want to make sure that we
have all of those lipids to support healthy membranes, healthy
energy production. We're living in a way that we're building
that exclusion zone water so that we're preventing any of
those you know, if LDL breaks on the vessel wall,
it's not going to be able to penetrate that exclusion
zone if we have good exclusion zone water there. So

(01:01:20):
this is you know, we're looking way way way downstream
when we should be focusing on, you know, things upstream
to help to support the prevention of cardiovascular disease. And
when you look at the studies, Katie, you see an
improve longevity and health bands in individuals who have cholesterol
over two hundred. So it's interesting how the reference range
on these lads is two hundred is your maths, and

(01:01:43):
anything above that gets flagged as high. When the research
shows the opposite of that, It actually shows that to
having a cholesterol of two hundred or you know, kind
of between two hundred and two twenty is that sweet
spot where you see improved health outcomes across the board,
especially in women. Actually, that's such an important point and
I literally I could talk to you all day. I

(01:02:05):
hope we actually get to do some future episodes because
there's so much more we didn't even get to get into,
Like I would love to go into insulin and leptin
at some point, and to even go deeper, especially on phospholipids,
because that's such such a core part of your body
of work. But for today's episode, I'm going to link
to these in the show notes. I know you have
a course and you also have a membership available if
you can give us a brief overview of those I'm

(01:02:27):
definitely going to take your course because I love all
of your videos that you release, and I am very
excited to go deeper on these topics. But where can
people find you if they feel like they just kind
of had their mind blown and want to understand on
a deeper level, like, Okay, what does this mean? What
then do I actually eat? How do I actually support
my body? Oh? Well, thank you so much, Katie. Yeah,
so I teach a mitochondril restoration program. So it's for

(01:02:47):
it was designed actually for practitioners, but it's also available
for any individuals who are really wanting to take their
health in their own hands. So my whole goal of
this education is to make sure that people understand. I
want them to know what health is, what it takes
to be healthy, and how we can keep health long term.
So I don't teach any protocols. I have in lots

(01:03:08):
of restoration maps, support of kind of documents for you
to support yourself if you have non alcoholic fatty liver
disease or IBS or crones or colitis. But I don't
do any protocols. We just do teachings around mitochondria restoration.
There's six modules that are about two and a half
hours each. We start with just basic understanding of the mitochondria,

(01:03:30):
what they do, how we can support them all of
their different functions. We move into the cell danger response.
I do a really deep dive teaching on CDR based
on doctor Robert Nobul's work, and then we move into
fueling your cells. So I have a whole module on
proper nutrition for cellular health. So it's not a dogmatic
course on nutrition, it's really an understanding, Okay, what do

(01:03:50):
your cells need to be well? And let's make sure
that we're giving them those things. Then I move into
circadian biology and how light regulates everything that's taking place body,
and then I move into water and hydration, and then
the last module is phospholipids and fatty acids. It's really
a masterclass and it's a year a year to access
all the course materials. It's an invaluable education. I've poured

(01:04:13):
my heart and soul into that education and content. And
then I have a monthly membership program as well for
people that want to jump on to call the month
to learn more about mitochondrial health, to be part of
an amazing community of people, and we start that actually
on Thursday is my first call, so we meet every
second Thursday of the month. Amazing well. I will put

(01:04:36):
both of those links in the show notes right know
they're available on your website and link on your Instagram
as well. All of that I will link to you
at wellnesswama dot com that I'm sure everybody listening can
now understand why I am such a fan of you
and why I was so excited to have you on
I guessid. I hope we get to have more conversations
in the future, but for today, you are just an
absolute well of knowledge. I loved this conversation. Thank you
so much for your time and for sharing Katie, thank

(01:04:58):
you so much for having me. This is a real treat,
so thank you from the bottom of my heart. And
thanks to all of you for listening and sharing your
time with us. We're both so grateful that you did,
and I hope you will join me again on the
next episode of the Wellnesswama podcast. If you're enjoying these interviews,
would you please take two minutes to leave a rating
or review on iTunes for me. Doing this helps more

(01:05:21):
people to find the podcast, which means even more moms
and families can benefit from the information. I really appreciate
your time and thanks as always for listening.

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