May 13, 2025 • 48 mins
We chat with Stacey Foster, chartered accountant, about her business journey — from near collapse to rebuilding her practice.
The conversation covers overcoming shame around setbacks, the importance of financial transparency, strategies for recovery, and the role of self-trust in entrepreneurship.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-women-in-business-radio-show--1228431/support.
Created and hosted by Sian Murphy with regular co-hosts Michele Yianni Attard, Kay Best, Rachael Bryant and occasionally Adelle Martin.
Find out how to be a guest or patron of the show at https://thewomeninbusinessradioshow.com
The conversation covers overcoming shame around setbacks, the importance of financial transparency, strategies for recovery, and the role of self-trust in entrepreneurship.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-women-in-business-radio-show--1228431/support.
Created and hosted by Sian Murphy with regular co-hosts Michele Yianni Attard, Kay Best, Rachael Bryant and occasionally Adelle Martin.
Find out how to be a guest or patron of the show at https://thewomeninbusinessradioshow.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Women in Business Radio Show with Sean Murphy,
connecting women in business around the globe.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome into the Women in Business Radio Show.
So I'm going to, as usual, get everybody in the
studio to introduce themselves because I can't write anything down
or remember anything. So if you go co host to.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Michael Yard, Hello.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
And him yesterday studios accountant and so we care.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
It's from Zetti social Media.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So we are going to be talking about Oh, we're
going to be hearing Stacey's story. Actually, now, the other
thing I have to mention so wonderful if I'd have
written this down somewhere we had some notes, is that
everybody that is in here today is a sponsor of
The In Business Big Show. Thank you so much everybody
(01:06):
for everything that you do and and your support in
all sorts of ways. Because it's also the support for
me personally, because not everything always goes right. In fact,
most stuff doesn't go right. But it's also it's about
the support for the event and the people that come
(01:27):
along to it. You know, a lot of the people
that come along to the event as visitors, but also
quite a few of our exhibitors. They've not you know,
they've not exhibited before, they've not been to a big
event before, and sometimes these things can be really quite
intimidating and can make you feel really out of your
depth and as though you don't belong there. And what
I really wanted to do was to create an event
(01:49):
where everybody felt as though they belonged, no matter where
they were on their journey, no matter what had gone right,
no matter what had gone wrong, you know, whether they
were making a profit, losing money in stuff, getting out
there on social media, or not able to do that
because I don't like it. Just a space where everybody
can just feel comfortable. And I don't know the word honored,
(02:10):
is honored the right word, but actually honored is the
word that came to mind, and actually just honored, honored
in what they're they're doing with respect to where they
are and who they are and how far they've come.
However however smaller distance people may think that is, and
however much they may beat themselves up for what they
haven't haven't done. One of the things that I hear
(02:34):
a lot about and one of the things that one
of the words that actually comes for a lot of people,
especially people who are dealing with neurodiversity. Very often women,
whether they are neurodiverse or not. Is a horrible little word,
and it's that word shame. It's the word shame which
(02:58):
comes around either some times shame in what we haven't
haven't done in our businesses, shame that around what we're
now doing or not doing to support our families. It
could be anything, I think any you know, people attribute
reasons for shame from all sorts of places and spaces,
and it really is a horrible little word. And one
(03:22):
of the things that I also found is that it
is a horrible little word. But sometimes it's also a
feeling that we don't realize that we have. Yeah, that
it's sort of sitting there and niggling away in the background,
but we don't actually realize that we have shame, you know,
that we don't say I'm ashamed that I or I'm
(03:43):
ashamed that I haven't and yet there it is. There
is Sometimes I think it might mask itself as imposter
syndrome and all of the other things that come with
it potentially, but that shame is just horrible, you know,
being ashamed of something that you've done, even though you're
(04:04):
doing fantastically, but you have this little thing sitting behind
that's sort of like a little horrible worm gnawing away
at you. Is it's an awful way to be Yeah,
And I think that's something that Stacy you found out about,
didn't you? And yes now and is now I'm going
(04:27):
to say very bravely because I'm not sure. I'm not
sure that braver is brave is the right word because
you're sharing what happened to you sharing.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
And it is scary you share up you know, kind
of deep and personal. But I feel it's important for
other people to learn from and to resonate and just
so that they feel that actually, it's okay, this happens
and it's okay.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I think one of the things that makes it and
the reason that I really really like this, is that
what went wrong was around what you actually do for
your clients.
Speaker 6 (05:09):
That's probably why I felt shame as well, because it's
how can it go wrong for me?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Like, I know, this come on?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So how you know? How do you how do you
come back from that? When you know, how do you
hold your head up when you're trying to manage other
people's staff and you're getting them to do things that
not only are you're not doing yourself, but it hasn't worked,
and in fact, it's gone horribly, horribly wrong. And I
think we very often you're going to hear this story
(05:37):
in a minute. By the way, I just don't want
to give everything away, but I think we hear about
this sort of thing all the time, but we we
either don't acknowledge it or we think, actually, you can't
come back from that. Actually you can. Because when I
first heard the story, I thought, oh my goodness, but
(05:58):
then I thought, actually, hey, on a minute, hang on
a minute, was it that bad? Actually no, no, it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
It felt bad at the time, No, but it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know, when you actually sit and think about it,
it wasn't. Your clients were fine, that was all okay,
nothing had happened there. You know, you maintained that integrity,
It was all working. It was just it was an
internal thing that made you go, oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So I think what we need to do now then
is get Stacy to actually tell her story, and let's
find out what actually happened and where she is now.
So just to set the scene a little bit, you're
you're an accountant. You're a chartered accountant, A proper chartered accountant, yes,
(06:49):
not some of the ones that I've come across. A
proper proper chartered accountant, okay. And you were working with
clients businesses, So you had a business, and you would
with people of all types of businesses, all of that
sort of thing, doing their accounts, submitting them to HMRC,
doing the vat, all of that sort of thing, right, Okay.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
So I'd built up the business to about half a
million turnover, had a decent sized office, you know, lots
of stuff. But actually, where I think a little bit
of the shame come from is that so I didn't
go to university, which is very unusual routes for people
as a chartered accountant, so I had to do what's.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Ah, So you had shame building on shame.
Speaker 6 (07:33):
So yeah, I always very ashamed to admit I didn't
go to university. People assumed that I did, and I
just let them assume. I was a bit like, you know,
I didn't. I felt insignificant to those that had gone,
you know, or inferior to those into university.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
And you know, so I didn't.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
I didn't tell anybody, But then I did start to
own that.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
That actually, no, I've achieved.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Look what I've achieved, and I didn't go to university,
and I started.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Just clarify what difference would it have made? Because you
are a chartered accountants? So what is the difference if
you is it that you can go to university and
do a chartered accountantcy So so what's the.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
You can't do the I c a W unless you've
been to university. So I had to do the at first.
What's that's another qualification accounting technique qualifications?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Okay, so that got you so so you you had
to put it. You had like an entrance, so you
had to go. You had had a different entry route
exactly which didn't have a degree, which I suppose if
you look in terms of academic levels, it was a
lower qualification, but specifically for accountants. So you took that,
which took you in to then do the Chartered accountants exams.
(08:46):
Got y right, Okay, but you had shame because you
hadn't got a degree in what biology exactly, computer science,
media study or in running a golf course or something,
right Okay?
Speaker 6 (09:04):
Because so it was only much later, eight nine years
on from having the qualification and found completing a qualification
that I actually started to confess that I hadn't been
to university.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Did you say upfront? Did you walk into a room
and go Hi, I'm Stacy, I didn't go to the university.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
Out there on linked In and starting talking to people
because I thought, actually, now I really want to inspire
the fifteen year old me that thought. You know, I
grew up on a council estate in London. I did
not imagine becoming someone like me being able to become
a chartered accountant, owning a business and you know, so yeah,
that's when I thought, actually, no, it's important that I
(09:41):
get that message out there. So I started really owning
that and then saying, you know, look I've got this
successful business too, and I'm a chartered account and I
didn't go to university.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
So it was kind of building.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It became your successful business became part of your story.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
So yes, on the outside, I did have successful business,
half million turnover, almost half million turnover.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
All the staff offices, and yeah, everyone kept saying to me,
are you're you know, you're really successful.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
But I was like that swan that on the outside,
you know, on the top, I was you know, streaming along,
but underneath I was like paddling like mad and it
was all going horribly wrong.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Interesting, So what.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Sort of ways was it going When you say it
was all going horribly wrong, I think there are different
ways of looking at that. So it could be it
was all going horribly wrong because I didn't like my
staff and they were rebelling against me and we had
these horrible team meetings. Or it could be it was
really going horribly wrong because there was actually functional stuff
in the business that was going wrong.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
A bit of both.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Actually.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Yeah, So the business was heavily built on debt, so
I just was chasing turnover and believe that I just
needed more clients, more staff. I can just borrow more
make payroll to get staff and to grow that way.
So it was very hand to mouth. There wasn't I
didn't have you know, a pot in that what.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
I recommend is there.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
So this this is where going against what I kind
of tell other people to do. So I say, you know,
make sure you have like a three month buffer in
case anything goes wrong, and yeah, that obviously didn't listen
to my own advice and was living hand to mouth,
struggling to make payroll most months and and things like that.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
It's all those behind the scenes that nobody seen.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I'll tell you what. I can feel the stress it was.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
I could for all these mortgages.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah I could feel.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah it was. It was a horrible place to be.
Speaker 6 (11:32):
And of course I had, you know, my own family
I had, I just haven't had my third child, and
I was kind of being pulled in every direction, every
which way.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
And you had your own mortgage to pay.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
Oh gosh, I have my own mortgage pairer. I was
a breadwinner as well. I was bringing in, you know,
the most. And yeah, it was a really really scary
place to be. And so ultimately it did all goat
it's up because three things happened in very short succession,
within a couple of months. So we had a really
big client that paid us fifty sixty grand a year
that we was their whole finance function. So we took
(12:06):
on the client, the client grew with us, and I
hired staff to look after that. You know, we were
their finance function, and they decided to take that in
house and to employ their own finance team. So that
happened with just a very short three month notice period,
which was not a lot to lose that amount of
(12:26):
turnover that happened. I had a seventeen grand debtter that
had built up over a few months. He decided just
to close his business and go and set up another business,
and obviously we didn't see a penny of that. And
then the other thing was a senior manager decided to
(12:47):
leave and take one.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Hundred grands worth of clients with them.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Oh my word, that all of this happened within a
few months.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Was there clause in their contract?
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Of course? Yeah, And I thought's listed advice and things.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
It was either going for cost fifteen grant's no guarantee.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
You know, there was all this, and it's it's the energy.
It was that.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It was sometimes you may have a legal route in theory, yeah,
but in practice about it absolutely.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
So yeah, all these happened within within a very short
time frame. And we we had moved, so we had
our offices in Sittingbourne, we had moved to Lenham. I
was doing like a four hour journey each day to
get the kids to nursery, roll and to the office
into Battle.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
And I just re evaluated everything. I was like, you know,
I'm just going to shut the business? Is it done?
I failed?
Speaker 6 (13:37):
So I made some made some staff some amazing stuff
that I had, I had to make them redundant.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
That was really hard, I can imagine.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
And I sold the remaining of what was left of
the business to try and play off some of the
HMRC debts and things that had wrapped up.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
And yeah, so that's what I did.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
And that's what felt like massive failure at that time.
And yeah, I was shame because why, why how did
that happen to me?
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Like I was an accountant.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
I was telling everybody preaching about cash flows and about
all of this, and underneath it didn't take a lot
to just bring it all down.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Just because we have half of our listeners are international
and they're sort of in the States, that sort of thing.
So I just want to clarify HMRC. So HMRC that
is Her Majesty's revenue and customers. Oh yeah, yes, So
basically I don't know, I'm just imagining all sorts of
things then just hanging back on track. So basically, wherever
(14:39):
you are, it's the people that monitor and collect the taxes.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Taxes.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, so you you will basically in debt to HMRC.
This doesn't sound like a whole heap of fun.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Actually, no, it's not. It's a horrible place to be.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
And but I know that if you ever get in
trouble with h M r C, you have to be
on the phone to them, don't wait for them to come.
And it's kind of one of my biggest you know
that I give to clients, especially now, is make sure
you're going to them. You're talking to them, explain what's going.
You've got agreements and stuff like that in place. But yeah,
it was just a real horrible dance.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Do you feel like everything happened at once or was
it like within three month period?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
That's all my word.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yes, So it wasn't sort of like happening that where
you could sort of like, you've got a situation, we
can learn by it to help.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Let's pull let's pull ourselves back. Yeah. So you but
basically you you weren't able to recover from one thing,
and then something else came.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
I was completely backed into a corner, and I felt
like I had no other choice really.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Because sometimes when we have a situation like that and
something happens, we're like, okay, this has happened, what else
could potentially happen, what's going on around us?
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (15:50):
But I think that's like a really short period of tixactly,
it's hard to determine what is next.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, I just want to talk to you about some
of the words that you've just used and maybe sort
of just explore what it felt like and how you
dealt with it. Because you're still on the planet. Okay,
you didn't do anything, nothing happened, You're still here, you're
still with us, and you're back. Yeah, so I'm finishing
with you, know, I'm saying that now to say that
(16:18):
actually Stacey, Stacey Foster is back. Stacey Foster Accountants is back.
You have clients, you're working, So that's there. That's out there.
So you said it was a really scary place to be. Now,
how how on a sort of a day to day
basis you're a mum, but even if you're not, you know,
(16:40):
even if it's just you and the packet of biscuits,
how how did you deal with that, you know, just
getting up every day or trying to sleep at night
or sleeping at night? How did you actually sort of
manage yourself? I suppose dealing with that stress going on?
Speaker 5 (16:58):
I don't know, do you know, all seems a bit
of a blur if I'm really honest.
Speaker 6 (17:02):
So whilst it was all happening, and I just could
not see a way out other than to sell what.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Remainer had left.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
My husband, I mean, he's very sweet, very supportive, but
he was saying, no, you've got to keep going, just
just find more clients. Just no, You've got to know
when to actually or the plug and say enough is enough.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
And you know, I just could not see a way
out of all of that.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
And at the same time, I thought, for a very
brief moment, no, I sell the business, pair of the debts,
and I'd be a stay at home mum.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
That's ridiculous, idea, have a brain fat But we do.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
But we do do things like that, don't we. I
when I was still in local government, I hated what
I was doing. I just hated it. I have this
huge amount of responsibility, way out of proportion to you know,
sort of what I was being paid, and it was
just horrible. So I bought a house in France and
(18:05):
I thought, right, well, okay, well I'm gonna I'm going
to I'm going to go and live over there, like
the good life. Remember that TV. I'm going to keep
rabbits chickens. Can you imagine with these nails? Can you
imagine me over there pottering? And I mean, so we
have this huge farmhouse which has got all of this land.
There's no chickens, by the way, there's nothing inside, There's
lots of there's lots of brambles. But it was just
(18:31):
a massive overreaction to to to an incredibly stressful situation
chucking it literally chucking everything out, and this is what
I'm going to go and do. And I just so
much wish I hadn't done that, because really what I'd
quite like is to have had a little place by
the sea, not in the middle of France, because I
(18:51):
love the sea. I love the water, and what I've
got is in them is literally slap bang in the middle.
It couldn't be further away from water if if I tried,
But it it was. It was a real big overreaction.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Yes it was massive, and.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
I I loved my business in the earlier days, but
when I had my third child, basically I had a
very short maternity, I had took on this.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So had you created a monster?
Speaker 6 (19:19):
I had created a monster, I said, being a manager
to step into my shoes so that I could then
be you know, business.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Development management director.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
But i'd actually come away from all the client faces
that you likes.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
So I just became a manager, you know.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
And some hiring incisions went on without me, and there
was people there. The culture changed dramatically, you know. Initially
it was we had a great team, great culture. I
loved going to the office, but yeah, towards the end,
it changed and I started avoiding the office, and so, yeah,
it was a monster that I had created. And yeah,
(19:57):
so it was it was a massive relief to actually
go I thought I into this, but no I don't. Yeah,
so yeah, to to kind of walk away. And then
I had a period obviously realizing very quickly I did
not want to be a stay at home mum.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
But I had what about a minute and a half, Yeah,
like the first weekend come I from done.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So that the.
Speaker 6 (20:23):
Sale went through in November, I had I had a
bit of sort of kind of loose ends and things
to tie up with them. I kept a few clients
because I knew I still wanted to work with them,
you know, they'd been with me from the very first.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
And so over over Christmas.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
In January, I kind of just had a bit of downtime,
bit of time to reflect and you know, see, well,
what what is it I want for the future, What
what did I like about the business? What didn't I
you know, kind of done all this real deep dive stuff,
and yeah, I missed my business. I loved my business
in the earlier days when I was hands.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
On, when you were, when you were the business the business.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
So I thought, well, I've just got to go again.
Speaker 6 (21:03):
I've got all those lessons and everything that I've learned
over you know that six seven years. I can shortcut
all of those lessons and learnings and I can do
it better this time.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
So yeah, I set out again.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
So this was then this time last year that I restarted,
and I just thought, yeah, I've got to get my
ass out there, get out networking and.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
Show up and good for you.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So do you do you think that you dealt with
You dealt with things as they were happening, because you
were in fight and flight, because it was so bad
that you were you were on an emergency level. You
were actually running away from the tiger. So you didn't
have too much time to be sitting and dwelling. You
were just up there with running on adrenaline.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
I couldn't.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
I didn't have the luxury of time, so you know,
I had had to make everybody redundant and appeared until
the sale went through.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
So I very quick identified who I wanted to sell to.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
It was where one of my amazing staff had gone to,
so I knew that the clients were being handed over
to the person that was working on their clients. So
it was you know, that was all very quick. That
all happened very quickly. But I knew I didn't have
time to sit around and wait for you know, wait
for stuff to opportunities or different you know options.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
I just had to had to make it happen.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So that conversation with the clients, So how was that
and how did you make that? I mean clearly did
work because you took some clients with you, Yes, so
something along and also your other clients went to somebody
else that you knew.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
And that was massive selling point, you know, I was.
I was very honest with a lot of them. I
picked up I picked up the phone.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I've just screwed job with videoing. Sorry, I've just locked
my water on the floor, which just distracted different body.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
So was very honest with them, picked up the phone,
I explained what had happened, you know, and that ultimately
it was what was best for them and that was
what was more important.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I'm just imagining that first phone call.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
I was in tears. I was in bed.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I'm just sitting there with the phone.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
So I had come into the offic on Monday morning,
actually the week before. We'd been on holiday, and it
wasn't a holiday because I was kind of knew all
this was. This was waiting for He's just waiting for
you when I got back, and yeah, I got back
on that Monday, and I had to have a conversation
team that I'd made them all redundant and stuff, and yeah,
(23:36):
then I just cried a lot. My landlord had walked
in just for something completely unrelated, just saw me and
was like, oh my god, what has happened. So he
was really sweet, and you know, sort of we were
because obviously I was in a contract, I was least,
and so he was He was very kind and said, no, like,
you know, I've got somebody else that can move in immediately,
(23:58):
like it's not a problem. So that that was a
huge relief. That it wasn't racking up more. Yeah, he
was really lovely and yeah, and then the clients started
calling because it was a Monday.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
It was a busy.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
You know, I'd had this big team and now it
was just me. And I'm like, at all this work done?
Like they still need payrolls doing, that's doing, you know,
all of this still needs doing. And I was having
to pick up. Bearing in mind I'd not been on
the tools for a good year or two years. There
was software changes that I didn't know. I had to
suddenly learn all these We had new payrolls system, we had,
(24:30):
you know, all of this going on that I had
to kind of learn and whilst trying to wrap up
and deal with the business sale.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
And it was yeah, h.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yes, it was.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Yeah. But got those conversations with you know, some clients
that had become friends over the period, and yeah, I
just was really honest about what had happened, what had
gone wrong, and it was all very kind and they
they could obviously see it was a good who I
chosen to take.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You were looking for you were looking for proper solutions.
You weren't just chucking them out.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
No business clothes, you know. See you later, I was
making sure.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
That they was all being really looked after, because that
was really important to me.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
That's what's going to go a long way when you
pick it back up.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
And that's that's why I have no sort of shame
in as such in picking it back up.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
And it's not like I know, I didn't do dirty
on anybody.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
Everybody was looked after, and you know, so I can
just build it.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
But you're building a business, Yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, I think I think that's a really sort of
important thing when we're looking at the shame angle and
why we take on this mantle of shame is actually
it wasn't the right one, was it. It wasn't the
right mantle. So the shame was around, Hey, I'm an accountant.
This is what I this is my business. This is
what I do is making sure people do this, and
(25:54):
not what I'm actually doing, which is that which is
really just going horribly wrong. But it didn't need shame.
All it was was was enthusiasm, getting stuff done, growing things,
growing things to the shame actually would have been in going, well, staff, there,
(26:15):
you go for clients. Sorry, I've shut a bit like
that person did with you. I know, are seventeen just
shutting business kind of it now? Can you? And I'm
starting another one? So which is which is effectively what
they did? So you could actually of having a limited company.
Couldn't you have just shut the door, taken a few clients,
taken the clients that you wanted to sustain yourself, shut
(26:38):
the business, turned your back and left them all without
this stuff?
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Couldn't Yeah yeah, how could have done?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (26:46):
But you didn't.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah okay.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So I think when we look at when we look
at this and stuff going wrong, there are ways of
behaving that make that keep your integrity, which are your
which are sort of the core values that you probably
have as a person and had in your business. Anyway,
even if you didn't sit down and go, hey, here's
our values. So so you you you, you remained loyal
(27:11):
to your values and you did what you needed to
do to make sure that people were okay. And I
I think I think people appreciate that, but we don't
just just does that make sense? We don't. We're still
looking at that. Oh god, wen, I should have done that.
Your clients were fine, they were it was all nothing.
(27:34):
Does that make sense? It was nobody nobody was actually
really affected. Nobody disruption, nobody, nobody was out of pocket.
Nothing happened, and if it had have done, it wouldn't
have been your fault. It wouldn't have been because you
turned your back. It would have because it would have
been because actually there was another layer in there or
(27:54):
something else happening. And I think that that's sometimes the
do you do you think it's the shame thing. It's
all about what other people are thinking of us.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
Yes, because it.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Think.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
I mean, I've always been like ridiculously ambitious. I've always
kind of wanted being wanted and kind of trying to
prove people wrong as well when people say I couldn't
do it, you know, I've always wanted to prove them wrong.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Just watch me sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And the shame, the shame was about other people's judgments.
It actually wasn't about actions that you did, or people
who are materially, psychologically or psychologically out of pocket or
suffering in any way. It was just people are going
(28:46):
to think I'm daft, people are going to think I'm
not a very good business or what you achieved.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, definitely you shouldn't the man that you achieved, Absolutely right,
things happen, that you learn all that.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Stuff for you to come back again exactly the way.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
That you dealt with situations, that's a massive achieve Yeah, yeah, definitely,
you know, all of those different situations are massive things
to you know, some people couldn't even imagine dealing with
something like that, but on a smaller scale, I know.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I think the other thing is, especially when you're an accountant,
is that is that sometimes I think businesses, especially very
small businesses, but almost feel as though they're totally stupid
and their accountant sort of knows everything and they're infallible,
and they're looking down at them down their noses from
you know, from their ivory towers and just fiddle around
(29:39):
with some figures, whereas to actually sort of know what
that feels like to get it wrong.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Yeah, I've been there, and I know how you feel.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
When but also the clues as well, because you've been there,
and you know, because I'm sort of thinking that somewhere
along the line, there must have been little moments of disquiet,
little little red flags maybe where you were growing, stuff
was happening, you were bringing on new people, and lots
(30:11):
of yeah, yes, and that you and that you were
doing perhaps what we are told, and I'm using inverted commas.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Are we on video?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's probably running, it's run now, that's okay, but we
are it's the ability to use inverted commerces. But we're told,
you know, this is how you grow, this is what
you do. You take your first member of staff on,
then you do this, and then you do that. So
we're sort of doing that if you like the formula
the business, this is what you do. Whereas an actual fact,
there were little things that perhaps you had as little
(30:43):
red flags that may be Actually, I'm not sure that
I'm ready for that. I'm not sure my business is
ready for that.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
Ye listening to other people instead of I mean even
so much as taken on staff and I'd written in
my journal that I'd found later that I shouldn't have
hired that person.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
I don't trust them. There's something about them, and I
did not listen to that. You listen to.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
The biggest takeaway and all of that is that if
I have just all several points, you know, taken on
big clients, and there's lots and lots of red flags
that I didn't listen to, and yes, so that would
be the biggest.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I think you know that that going back to that,
you had, you know, one really big client where you
were finding all of these services and then they decided
to take it in house. This is not the first
time I've come across this happening where it's a very
big client. It takes a long time to service them,
so you have to have a lot of resources in
(31:45):
house to be servicing this client. And if you're you know,
perhaps tight on resources that actually everything goes towards servicing
and you know that you're vulnerable with this one client
I've heard hoping that we could build I've heard I've
heard of this happening so many times and people going
(32:06):
out for that one big client which which no longer
needs you, and somebody in an admin support. Now you
need sort of three or four members of staff, different
people specifically to look after this client. And they suddenly
go and guess what you're left with these members of staff.
And it's a really difficult one, isn't it, Because do
you turn you know, do you turn that client away?
(32:29):
Do you turn them away in the first place?
Speaker 6 (32:30):
From now, From now I'm looking at who I want
to work with, then yes, absolutely they wouldn't be part
of my business model now. So yes, a massive lesson.
I mean some people they build their businesses around that
sort of absolutely, but yeah, it's just sticking, you know,
really true to who I want to work with. And yeah,
(32:51):
and definitely diversifying and not having all your eggs in work.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
So it's exactly I was going to say about the eggs.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And one I think it's when you have that sort
of that big client that you need to feed the monster, yes,
don't you, and it makes you vulnerable. And you know,
it's a lesson that we learned sort of not as
early on as we should have done, but with managing
websites because we specialize in WordPress and then having other
(33:19):
people going oh, well I've got this one or can
you do that one? And then instead of saying, actually no,
we specialize in WordPress, we'd end up learning and entire
new management system for one person and just for one
person it's not worth it, and it's not And now
you know, I suppose we've learned to stick to you know,
(33:41):
we do WordPress.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Yes, I think what big clients are really good at
as well, and we've had a couple over the years,
but one of our biggest brands that we took on
would have been our biggest client, but we saw it
as a short term strategy. So though we weren't putting
all of our eggs in one basket, was thinking, Okay,
this is going to give us a really good could
step up in terms of the business and how we
(34:03):
could advance it a little bit more, bringing the right
team members, but not then obviously then just having that
whole focus on that one yeah, particular client, which was.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
But also it's a sight sorry. It was a slightly
different strategy though, wasn't it, Because I mean, I'm not
sure who these people were, and I'm not going to
ask you, but that brand was known and so it's
sort of thing not that you go out and tell people,
you know, willy nilly who your clients are, but that
brand was a known brand. So it's somebody that you
(34:32):
know if you said, oh and we you know, if
you said to a prospective client and we managed to,
they would have known it. They would have known who
who they were. Was that the case with this one
big client that you could have had a springboard effect
off with?
Speaker 6 (34:47):
Yes, we were at one point thinking that's what we're
going to do. We put ourselves out there as we
can be your whole finance function.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
But was the client well known? Because I think there
is slightly different if you can say, actually one of
our clients is the BBC or the whatever. It builds
credibility into your business, doesn't it a news are You've
worked with brands that household names and so that's you.
You know, that is not just about having that size
(35:15):
of business in your business. It's about having recognition. Yeah,
but so these were a big business but they were
in there, but nobody else would have recognized them. No, okay, No, I.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Had a similar situation to your story, so.
Speaker 7 (35:32):
I changed my model, like you're changing your model, which
is really a commence you completely listening to you. Have
you thought about maybe collaborating with bookkeepers, freelance bookkeepers so
that you can grow your market? I mean, I'm not
happy to talk to you afterwards as well about how
to grow your market with freelance bookkeepers that've already got
their licenses, they're working with other clients, but they also
(35:54):
want to work in practice.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
That's exactly my new model.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 6 (36:00):
Yeah, well, we'll definitely have a Yeah, definitely, I'd love
to help.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
But yeah, and so when I restarted the business last year,
I initially thought, I just want it to be me.
I just want to keep small.
Speaker 6 (36:12):
I just get you know, X amount of clients and
that kind of cover my carts, and that I don't
want I don't want to get big blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
But that doesn't always happen.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
That doesn't.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
And then the kind of the ambitious side of me
starts coming in a little bit.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
More and like, oh, I could help so many more
and I could do this and I can.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
And also I realized now that that was fear back then,
you know, yeah, how can I trust people again?
Speaker 5 (36:33):
How can I you know?
Speaker 6 (36:34):
And scared to get back into the same position, of course,
But now I realize trusting my instinct, doing it slowly
and then all gains exactly collaborating building those exactly.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
So yes, I can do it, but I can do
it differently.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yes you can.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, I just want to tap I just want to
sort of tap into that. Because is it the case
that when you take on, say as accountants, that you
start working with bookkeepers who have their own license? Okay,
Because what I'm thinking is I'm not sure that it's
any easier to get a hold of your branding and
reputation and that sort of thing. When you take on,
(37:10):
say a freelancer than an employed person, I suppose in
a way you can impose more rules on an employed
person than you can on a freelancer, potentially in.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
Terms of like working hours and things that's not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
But also in terms of sort of reputation your reputation
as a business owner is that if they are a bookkeeper,
they are going to have their own professional standards, aren't
they that they are going to have to maintain. So
your risk, if you like, of all of the other
stuff that I've waffled on about, your risk potentially with
taking on somebody to do that as part of your
(37:47):
team but not employed, the collaborating with them is potentially
less than say, taking on somebody who I don't know,
Say I took on somebody to work on my client's
WordPress websites and that sort of thing. There isn't a
professional qualification in WordPress websites that there isn't another organization
(38:09):
outside that they have to satisfy as as well as me.
So my risk potentially as far as that goes, is
a little bit greater because there isn't that sort of
external enforcements I suppose and money laundering which has taking
you for you taking on accountants and bookkeepers, and I
(38:30):
suppose also for HR people taking on HR the collaborators
health and safety. You know, there's a separate there's an
external organization. So it's a little bit more secure, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
It is?
Speaker 7 (38:46):
It is one hundred percent. I agree with you because
you don't need to be fairly qualified if you're an employee.
But if you are a freelancer, you're going to have
to be a qualified bookkeeper definitely, if you're going to
work and.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
There's a set of extern and absolutely they're.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Going to be aml compliant so.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Forth and be with a body and if they're not.
If they're not, it's not just you getting cross with them.
Actually they potentially can lose their whole business.
Speaker 6 (39:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (39:13):
I mean you can take on apprentices and apprentices grow
with the company, which I do.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
But I had some apprentices and they were great.
Speaker 7 (39:22):
But yeah, great if you've got the time, exactly, absolutely
agree with you on them.
Speaker 6 (39:27):
If you're not, so yeah, that's not where I want
to focus my time anymore.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
I want to be with clients doing the higher level.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
It's so different, isn't it. I mean I've had apprentices.
I think you have as well, so haven't you and I?
And in fact, it was having apprentices that really showed
me what I am just no good at I'm just
not I am useless at teaching people's training them.
Speaker 7 (39:56):
It's so funny because I'm the opposite. My train accounts,
so I can train apprentices and I am.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Isn't it, I'm absolutely, absolutely useless. That's why I don't
run training courses.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Training courses.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
It's all coming out, all nicely, it's all explaining so
out it all comes in my head.
Speaker 7 (40:17):
It's like, what is wrong with you?
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Why can't you get this?
Speaker 7 (40:23):
Then apprenticeships are not right, You're not right for your model,
there's no point.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
But it's also I think one of the things to
consider when you're taking when you're looking at your growth,
and that your growth is taking on employees who mainly
training in the way that you do things, or mainly
training actually in the profession themselves. Whereas I would think
with bookkeepers they already have that, they may need to
(40:51):
accept that there may be a different software system, or
that you collect stuff in on a Friday. But basically
there's a qualification. They're qualified, and you do it. Was
when you take somebody on and you're starting them almost
from scratch, although have a little bit of knowledge, you
are going to have to spend possibly your time, i know,
teaching them, answering their question. And if you're sat in
(41:15):
a corner, if you're sat in a corner with your
headphones in, with your iPad going, the next person who
disturbs me is going to.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
Die breakout sessions or pod sessions with the team and
say you can't talk to me until that time. You know,
we're all in the same office, so they can see
me because I look at them and they can see
if my head's down, don't.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Talk to me.
Speaker 7 (41:40):
If I'm looking up when I'm speaking, then talk to me.
They'll ask me a load of questions. But I love
that aspect of my job. I think I'm more of
a leader than the manager. And it's interesting you're saying
that you manage people and I'm the opposite. We've talked
about this before that I'm a leader and I lead
people to get there, if that makes sense, and I
love that aspect my job.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I'm just not a manager. I just I'm not a manager.
I'm not a manager. I'm not a manager at all.
I think I'm possibly a leader. I think my job
is coming up with weird ideas.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
You're a visionary.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, in some respects, I am. But I'm certainly not
a manager, and I'm definitely not a trainer.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Actually, to know what's next for.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You, well, we are. There's a few questions that I
want that I want to go through first, and we're
going to do that very very quickly because we don't
have a whole lot of time left. So what's your superpower?
You're not going to be thinking about this. What's your superpowers?
Speaker 5 (42:47):
My superpower I can sleep no matter how stressed I am.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Wow, that is a superpower. Okay, yeah, it's I Either
that's your superpower, it's why so I watched your kryptonite.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
Oh it's something that like really like repels me.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Or it is something that your kryptonite is your achilles heel.
Somebody only has to go and you go, oh my god,
and you collapse.
Speaker 5 (43:28):
Family okay, yeah, and children.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
The guilt. Okay, funnily enough, we have Katie Pelsy. It's
not funny enough. This is why she does it. Katie
Pelsy is an expert on guilt and family running your
business and she's speaking. She's back again speaking at the
Women in Business Big Show.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Really good.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
So hello, Katie, So what is your top tip for
being in business?
Speaker 6 (43:57):
Look at your numbers, do not avoid them, do not
bury your head in the sand, own.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Them, learn them, learn the language, run.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
The language, and don't avoid them.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
That's something I learned recently is I don't have a
money issue. Okay, And there are so many money you
get over your money problems. How about your the psychology
of I don't have a money issue. I have a
knowledge and understanding issue. Fortunately I also have an accountant
and a team who now are helping me know what
(44:30):
those numbers are, so thank you, Michael. But when you
have to know those numbers and be granular, yes, and
if you know that, do that first before you start
reading ten thousand books about whether you have a money
issue and whether something in your ancestry or I don't
know at the bottom of the pond that means you
(44:52):
you're not worth it anything that you can think, any
cliche that you can think of a book forget all
of that until you know exactly what is coming in
and out and what your profit margin is. That's my
that's true, that is my thing. Okay, So what do
you know now that you wish you'd have known when
(45:13):
you started out?
Speaker 5 (45:16):
Oh, trust my instinct, toush the gut, listen to that. Yeah,
that is everything.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Yeah, and how do you change people's lives?
Speaker 6 (45:26):
Now? How do I change people's lives giving them back
control by knowing their numbers, by understanding that stop them
feeling like they're just winging it. They actually have that
control over their business.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Stacey, How can people get hold of you they would
like to work with you?
Speaker 6 (45:43):
Email Stacey at Foster's hyphen Accountants dot co dot uk.
I've got website Foster's Hyphen.
Speaker 5 (45:50):
Accountants dot co dot uk, LinkedIn. I'm largely on LinkedIn.
They see Foster Kent this.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Is this is why I get people to write it
down and they all.
Speaker 5 (46:08):
Yeah, yeah, contacts me through the website and I give
I give all my clients my WhatsApp so they can
contact me through there.
Speaker 6 (46:16):
They can leave me voice notes and things. I just
find that easier to deal with.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
It's a brilliant way. Actually, So Michael and Future Insight
work like that as well. And it just means that
even if it's midnight and I suddenly think of something,
I can send it off.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I don't expect she's not I don't expect them
to be sat there going well sometimes morning, so but
just actually being that accessible makes such a difference, doesn't it. Right, Okay,
thank you so much for sharing your story, Stacey. I'm
(46:52):
really grateful that you have shared your story, just generally
and especially that you so I'm saying thank you on
behalf of all business me out there, which is just
really arrogant of your pretentious that you're sharing, that you're
sharing that story because we so much, so many of
us have shame, and you know what a waste of energy.
(47:13):
So thank you so much to you, Stacey, thank you
to Michael Future, and of course always thank you. Thank
you to Lovely zoy Cairn's always so supportive, always so
lovely for coming down helping me video trying to get
my acting order after after only ten years. So said,
(47:36):
see social media. So do you want to just give
a shout out to zaid.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
T Live zaid Sea Live one day social media event
on the twenty third of October at Struid Academy. We
have TikTok and cam for coming back to speak.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
And normal people.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
Normal people have about over four hundred pcome a network
and collaborate.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
It's a super event. So thank you so much everybody
for making this a really fun, lively discussion and we
will see you all again shortly on the Women in
Business Radio Show. Thank you bye.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Tune in next week to the Women in Business Radio
Show for more stories, ideas and inspiration to help you
grow your business.
Welcome to the Women in Business Radio Show with Sean Murphy,
connecting women in business around the globe.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome into the Women in Business Radio Show.
So I'm going to, as usual, get everybody in the
studio to introduce themselves because I can't write anything down
or remember anything. So if you go co host to.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Michael Yard, Hello.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
And him yesterday studios accountant and so we care.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
It's from Zetti social Media.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So we are going to be talking about Oh, we're
going to be hearing Stacey's story. Actually, now, the other
thing I have to mention so wonderful if I'd have
written this down somewhere we had some notes, is that
everybody that is in here today is a sponsor of
The In Business Big Show. Thank you so much everybody
(01:06):
for everything that you do and and your support in
all sorts of ways. Because it's also the support for
me personally, because not everything always goes right. In fact,
most stuff doesn't go right. But it's also it's about
the support for the event and the people that come
(01:27):
along to it. You know, a lot of the people
that come along to the event as visitors, but also
quite a few of our exhibitors. They've not you know,
they've not exhibited before, they've not been to a big
event before, and sometimes these things can be really quite
intimidating and can make you feel really out of your
depth and as though you don't belong there. And what
I really wanted to do was to create an event
(01:49):
where everybody felt as though they belonged, no matter where
they were on their journey, no matter what had gone right,
no matter what had gone wrong, you know, whether they
were making a profit, losing money in stuff, getting out
there on social media, or not able to do that
because I don't like it. Just a space where everybody
can just feel comfortable. And I don't know the word honored,
(02:10):
is honored the right word, but actually honored is the
word that came to mind, and actually just honored, honored
in what they're they're doing with respect to where they
are and who they are and how far they've come.
However however smaller distance people may think that is, and
however much they may beat themselves up for what they
haven't haven't done. One of the things that I hear
(02:34):
a lot about and one of the things that one
of the words that actually comes for a lot of people,
especially people who are dealing with neurodiversity. Very often women,
whether they are neurodiverse or not. Is a horrible little word,
and it's that word shame. It's the word shame which
(02:58):
comes around either some times shame in what we haven't
haven't done in our businesses, shame that around what we're
now doing or not doing to support our families. It
could be anything, I think any you know, people attribute
reasons for shame from all sorts of places and spaces,
and it really is a horrible little word. And one
(03:22):
of the things that I also found is that it
is a horrible little word. But sometimes it's also a
feeling that we don't realize that we have. Yeah, that
it's sort of sitting there and niggling away in the background,
but we don't actually realize that we have shame, you know,
that we don't say I'm ashamed that I or I'm
(03:43):
ashamed that I haven't and yet there it is. There
is Sometimes I think it might mask itself as imposter
syndrome and all of the other things that come with
it potentially, but that shame is just horrible, you know,
being ashamed of something that you've done, even though you're
(04:04):
doing fantastically, but you have this little thing sitting behind
that's sort of like a little horrible worm gnawing away
at you. Is it's an awful way to be Yeah,
And I think that's something that Stacy you found out about,
didn't you? And yes now and is now I'm going
(04:27):
to say very bravely because I'm not sure. I'm not
sure that braver is brave is the right word because
you're sharing what happened to you sharing.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
And it is scary you share up you know, kind
of deep and personal. But I feel it's important for
other people to learn from and to resonate and just
so that they feel that actually, it's okay, this happens
and it's okay.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I think one of the things that makes it and
the reason that I really really like this, is that
what went wrong was around what you actually do for
your clients.
Speaker 6 (05:09):
That's probably why I felt shame as well, because it's
how can it go wrong for me?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Like, I know, this come on?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So how you know? How do you how do you
come back from that? When you know, how do you
hold your head up when you're trying to manage other
people's staff and you're getting them to do things that
not only are you're not doing yourself, but it hasn't worked,
and in fact, it's gone horribly, horribly wrong. And I
think we very often you're going to hear this story
(05:37):
in a minute. By the way, I just don't want
to give everything away, but I think we hear about
this sort of thing all the time, but we we
either don't acknowledge it or we think, actually, you can't
come back from that. Actually you can. Because when I
first heard the story, I thought, oh my goodness, but
(05:58):
then I thought, actually, hey, on a minute, hang on
a minute, was it that bad? Actually no, no, it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
It felt bad at the time, No, but it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know, when you actually sit and think about it,
it wasn't. Your clients were fine, that was all okay,
nothing had happened there. You know, you maintained that integrity,
It was all working. It was just it was an
internal thing that made you go, oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So I think what we need to do now then
is get Stacy to actually tell her story, and let's
find out what actually happened and where she is now.
So just to set the scene a little bit, you're
you're an accountant. You're a chartered accountant, A proper chartered accountant, yes,
(06:49):
not some of the ones that I've come across. A
proper proper chartered accountant, okay. And you were working with
clients businesses, So you had a business, and you would
with people of all types of businesses, all of that
sort of thing, doing their accounts, submitting them to HMRC,
doing the vat, all of that sort of thing, right, Okay.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
So I'd built up the business to about half a
million turnover, had a decent sized office, you know, lots
of stuff. But actually, where I think a little bit
of the shame come from is that so I didn't
go to university, which is very unusual routes for people
as a chartered accountant, so I had to do what's.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Ah, So you had shame building on shame.
Speaker 6 (07:33):
So yeah, I always very ashamed to admit I didn't
go to university. People assumed that I did, and I
just let them assume. I was a bit like, you know,
I didn't. I felt insignificant to those that had gone,
you know, or inferior to those into university.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
And you know, so I didn't.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
I didn't tell anybody, But then I did start to
own that.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
That actually, no, I've achieved.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Look what I've achieved, and I didn't go to university,
and I started.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Just clarify what difference would it have made? Because you
are a chartered accountants? So what is the difference if
you is it that you can go to university and
do a chartered accountantcy So so what's the.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
You can't do the I c a W unless you've
been to university. So I had to do the at first.
What's that's another qualification accounting technique qualifications?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Okay, so that got you so so you you had
to put it. You had like an entrance, so you
had to go. You had had a different entry route
exactly which didn't have a degree, which I suppose if
you look in terms of academic levels, it was a
lower qualification, but specifically for accountants. So you took that,
which took you in to then do the Chartered accountants exams.
(08:46):
Got y right, Okay, but you had shame because you
hadn't got a degree in what biology exactly, computer science,
media study or in running a golf course or something,
right Okay?
Speaker 6 (09:04):
Because so it was only much later, eight nine years
on from having the qualification and found completing a qualification
that I actually started to confess that I hadn't been
to university.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Did you say upfront? Did you walk into a room
and go Hi, I'm Stacy, I didn't go to the university.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
Out there on linked In and starting talking to people
because I thought, actually, now I really want to inspire
the fifteen year old me that thought. You know, I
grew up on a council estate in London. I did
not imagine becoming someone like me being able to become
a chartered accountant, owning a business and you know, so yeah,
that's when I thought, actually, no, it's important that I
(09:41):
get that message out there. So I started really owning
that and then saying, you know, look I've got this
successful business too, and I'm a chartered account and I
didn't go to university.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
So it was kind of building.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It became your successful business became part of your story.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
So yes, on the outside, I did have successful business,
half million turnover, almost half million turnover.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
All the staff offices, and yeah, everyone kept saying to me,
are you're you know, you're really successful.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
But I was like that swan that on the outside,
you know, on the top, I was you know, streaming along,
but underneath I was like paddling like mad and it
was all going horribly wrong.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Interesting, So what.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Sort of ways was it going When you say it
was all going horribly wrong, I think there are different
ways of looking at that. So it could be it
was all going horribly wrong because I didn't like my
staff and they were rebelling against me and we had
these horrible team meetings. Or it could be it was
really going horribly wrong because there was actually functional stuff
in the business that was going wrong.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
A bit of both.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Actually.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Yeah, So the business was heavily built on debt, so
I just was chasing turnover and believe that I just
needed more clients, more staff. I can just borrow more
make payroll to get staff and to grow that way.
So it was very hand to mouth. There wasn't I
didn't have you know, a pot in that what.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
I recommend is there.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
So this this is where going against what I kind
of tell other people to do. So I say, you know,
make sure you have like a three month buffer in
case anything goes wrong, and yeah, that obviously didn't listen
to my own advice and was living hand to mouth,
struggling to make payroll most months and and things like that.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
It's all those behind the scenes that nobody seen.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I'll tell you what. I can feel the stress it was.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
I could for all these mortgages.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah I could feel.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah it was. It was a horrible place to be.
Speaker 6 (11:32):
And of course I had, you know, my own family
I had, I just haven't had my third child, and
I was kind of being pulled in every direction, every
which way.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
And you had your own mortgage to pay.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
Oh gosh, I have my own mortgage pairer. I was
a breadwinner as well. I was bringing in, you know,
the most. And yeah, it was a really really scary
place to be. And so ultimately it did all goat
it's up because three things happened in very short succession,
within a couple of months. So we had a really
big client that paid us fifty sixty grand a year
that we was their whole finance function. So we took
(12:06):
on the client, the client grew with us, and I
hired staff to look after that. You know, we were
their finance function, and they decided to take that in
house and to employ their own finance team. So that
happened with just a very short three month notice period,
which was not a lot to lose that amount of
(12:26):
turnover that happened. I had a seventeen grand debtter that
had built up over a few months. He decided just
to close his business and go and set up another business,
and obviously we didn't see a penny of that. And
then the other thing was a senior manager decided to
(12:47):
leave and take one.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Hundred grands worth of clients with them.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Oh my word, that all of this happened within a
few months.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Was there clause in their contract?
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Of course? Yeah, And I thought's listed advice and things.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
It was either going for cost fifteen grant's no guarantee.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
You know, there was all this, and it's it's the energy.
It was that.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It was sometimes you may have a legal route in theory, yeah,
but in practice about it absolutely.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
So yeah, all these happened within within a very short
time frame. And we we had moved, so we had
our offices in Sittingbourne, we had moved to Lenham. I
was doing like a four hour journey each day to
get the kids to nursery, roll and to the office
into Battle.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
And I just re evaluated everything. I was like, you know,
I'm just going to shut the business? Is it done?
I failed?
Speaker 6 (13:37):
So I made some made some staff some amazing stuff
that I had, I had to make them redundant.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
That was really hard, I can imagine.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
And I sold the remaining of what was left of
the business to try and play off some of the
HMRC debts and things that had wrapped up.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
And yeah, so that's what I did.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
And that's what felt like massive failure at that time.
And yeah, I was shame because why, why how did
that happen to me?
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Like I was an accountant.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
I was telling everybody preaching about cash flows and about
all of this, and underneath it didn't take a lot
to just bring it all down.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Just because we have half of our listeners are international
and they're sort of in the States, that sort of thing.
So I just want to clarify HMRC. So HMRC that
is Her Majesty's revenue and customers. Oh yeah, yes, So
basically I don't know, I'm just imagining all sorts of
things then just hanging back on track. So basically, wherever
(14:39):
you are, it's the people that monitor and collect the taxes.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Taxes.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, so you you will basically in debt to HMRC.
This doesn't sound like a whole heap of fun.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Actually, no, it's not. It's a horrible place to be.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
And but I know that if you ever get in
trouble with h M r C, you have to be
on the phone to them, don't wait for them to come.
And it's kind of one of my biggest you know
that I give to clients, especially now, is make sure
you're going to them. You're talking to them, explain what's going.
You've got agreements and stuff like that in place. But yeah,
it was just a real horrible dance.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Do you feel like everything happened at once or was
it like within three month period?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
That's all my word.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yes, So it wasn't sort of like happening that where
you could sort of like, you've got a situation, we
can learn by it to help.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Let's pull let's pull ourselves back. Yeah. So you but
basically you you weren't able to recover from one thing,
and then something else came.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
I was completely backed into a corner, and I felt
like I had no other choice really.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Because sometimes when we have a situation like that and
something happens, we're like, okay, this has happened, what else
could potentially happen, what's going on around us?
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (15:50):
But I think that's like a really short period of tixactly,
it's hard to determine what is next.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, I just want to talk to you about some
of the words that you've just used and maybe sort
of just explore what it felt like and how you
dealt with it. Because you're still on the planet. Okay,
you didn't do anything, nothing happened, You're still here, you're
still with us, and you're back. Yeah, so I'm finishing
with you, know, I'm saying that now to say that
(16:18):
actually Stacey, Stacey Foster is back. Stacey Foster Accountants is back.
You have clients, you're working, So that's there. That's out there.
So you said it was a really scary place to be. Now,
how how on a sort of a day to day
basis you're a mum, but even if you're not, you know,
(16:40):
even if it's just you and the packet of biscuits,
how how did you deal with that, you know, just
getting up every day or trying to sleep at night
or sleeping at night? How did you actually sort of
manage yourself? I suppose dealing with that stress going on?
Speaker 5 (16:58):
I don't know, do you know, all seems a bit
of a blur if I'm really honest.
Speaker 6 (17:02):
So whilst it was all happening, and I just could
not see a way out other than to sell what.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Remainer had left.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
My husband, I mean, he's very sweet, very supportive, but
he was saying, no, you've got to keep going, just
just find more clients. Just no, You've got to know
when to actually or the plug and say enough is enough.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
And you know, I just could not see a way
out of all of that.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
And at the same time, I thought, for a very
brief moment, no, I sell the business, pair of the debts,
and I'd be a stay at home mum.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
That's ridiculous, idea, have a brain fat But we do.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
But we do do things like that, don't we. I
when I was still in local government, I hated what
I was doing. I just hated it. I have this
huge amount of responsibility, way out of proportion to you know,
sort of what I was being paid, and it was
just horrible. So I bought a house in France and
(18:05):
I thought, right, well, okay, well I'm gonna I'm going
to I'm going to go and live over there, like
the good life. Remember that TV. I'm going to keep
rabbits chickens. Can you imagine with these nails? Can you
imagine me over there pottering? And I mean, so we
have this huge farmhouse which has got all of this land.
There's no chickens, by the way, there's nothing inside, There's
lots of there's lots of brambles. But it was just
(18:31):
a massive overreaction to to to an incredibly stressful situation
chucking it literally chucking everything out, and this is what
I'm going to go and do. And I just so
much wish I hadn't done that, because really what I'd
quite like is to have had a little place by
the sea, not in the middle of France, because I
(18:51):
love the sea. I love the water, and what I've
got is in them is literally slap bang in the middle.
It couldn't be further away from water if if I tried,
But it it was. It was a real big overreaction.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Yes it was massive, and.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
I I loved my business in the earlier days, but
when I had my third child, basically I had a
very short maternity, I had took on this.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So had you created a monster?
Speaker 6 (19:19):
I had created a monster, I said, being a manager
to step into my shoes so that I could then
be you know, business.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Development management director.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
But i'd actually come away from all the client faces
that you likes.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
So I just became a manager, you know.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
And some hiring incisions went on without me, and there
was people there. The culture changed dramatically, you know. Initially
it was we had a great team, great culture. I
loved going to the office, but yeah, towards the end,
it changed and I started avoiding the office, and so, yeah,
it was a monster that I had created. And yeah,
(19:57):
so it was it was a massive relief to actually
go I thought I into this, but no I don't. Yeah,
so yeah, to to kind of walk away. And then
I had a period obviously realizing very quickly I did
not want to be a stay at home mum.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
But I had what about a minute and a half, Yeah,
like the first weekend come I from done.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So that the.
Speaker 6 (20:23):
Sale went through in November, I had I had a
bit of sort of kind of loose ends and things
to tie up with them. I kept a few clients
because I knew I still wanted to work with them,
you know, they'd been with me from the very first.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
And so over over Christmas.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
In January, I kind of just had a bit of downtime,
bit of time to reflect and you know, see, well,
what what is it I want for the future, What
what did I like about the business? What didn't I
you know, kind of done all this real deep dive stuff,
and yeah, I missed my business. I loved my business
in the earlier days when I was hands.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
On, when you were, when you were the business the business.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
So I thought, well, I've just got to go again.
Speaker 6 (21:03):
I've got all those lessons and everything that I've learned
over you know that six seven years. I can shortcut
all of those lessons and learnings and I can do
it better this time.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
So yeah, I set out again.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
So this was then this time last year that I restarted,
and I just thought, yeah, I've got to get my
ass out there, get out networking and.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
Show up and good for you.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So do you do you think that you dealt with
You dealt with things as they were happening, because you
were in fight and flight, because it was so bad
that you were you were on an emergency level. You
were actually running away from the tiger. So you didn't
have too much time to be sitting and dwelling. You
were just up there with running on adrenaline.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
I couldn't.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
I didn't have the luxury of time, so you know,
I had had to make everybody redundant and appeared until
the sale went through.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
So I very quick identified who I wanted to sell to.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
It was where one of my amazing staff had gone to,
so I knew that the clients were being handed over
to the person that was working on their clients. So
it was you know, that was all very quick. That
all happened very quickly. But I knew I didn't have
time to sit around and wait for you know, wait
for stuff to opportunities or different you know options.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
I just had to had to make it happen.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So that conversation with the clients, So how was that
and how did you make that? I mean clearly did
work because you took some clients with you, Yes, so
something along and also your other clients went to somebody
else that you knew.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
And that was massive selling point, you know, I was.
I was very honest with a lot of them. I
picked up I picked up the phone.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I've just screwed job with videoing. Sorry, I've just locked
my water on the floor, which just distracted different body.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
So was very honest with them, picked up the phone,
I explained what had happened, you know, and that ultimately
it was what was best for them and that was
what was more important.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I'm just imagining that first phone call.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
I was in tears. I was in bed.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I'm just sitting there with the phone.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
So I had come into the offic on Monday morning,
actually the week before. We'd been on holiday, and it
wasn't a holiday because I was kind of knew all
this was. This was waiting for He's just waiting for
you when I got back, and yeah, I got back
on that Monday, and I had to have a conversation
team that I'd made them all redundant and stuff, and yeah,
(23:36):
then I just cried a lot. My landlord had walked
in just for something completely unrelated, just saw me and
was like, oh my god, what has happened. So he
was really sweet, and you know, sort of we were
because obviously I was in a contract, I was least,
and so he was He was very kind and said, no, like,
you know, I've got somebody else that can move in immediately,
(23:58):
like it's not a problem. So that that was a
huge relief. That it wasn't racking up more. Yeah, he
was really lovely and yeah, and then the clients started
calling because it was a Monday.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
It was a busy.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
You know, I'd had this big team and now it
was just me. And I'm like, at all this work done?
Like they still need payrolls doing, that's doing, you know,
all of this still needs doing. And I was having
to pick up. Bearing in mind I'd not been on
the tools for a good year or two years. There
was software changes that I didn't know. I had to
suddenly learn all these We had new payrolls system, we had,
(24:30):
you know, all of this going on that I had
to kind of learn and whilst trying to wrap up
and deal with the business sale.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
And it was yeah, h.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yes, it was.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Yeah. But got those conversations with you know, some clients
that had become friends over the period, and yeah, I
just was really honest about what had happened, what had
gone wrong, and it was all very kind and they
they could obviously see it was a good who I
chosen to take.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You were looking for you were looking for proper solutions.
You weren't just chucking them out.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
No business clothes, you know. See you later, I was
making sure.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
That they was all being really looked after, because that
was really important to me.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
That's what's going to go a long way when you
pick it back up.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
And that's that's why I have no sort of shame
in as such in picking it back up.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
And it's not like I know, I didn't do dirty
on anybody.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
Everybody was looked after, and you know, so I can
just build it.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
But you're building a business, Yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, I think I think that's a really sort of
important thing when we're looking at the shame angle and
why we take on this mantle of shame is actually
it wasn't the right one, was it. It wasn't the
right mantle. So the shame was around, Hey, I'm an accountant.
This is what I this is my business. This is
what I do is making sure people do this, and
(25:54):
not what I'm actually doing, which is that which is
really just going horribly wrong. But it didn't need shame.
All it was was was enthusiasm, getting stuff done, growing things,
growing things to the shame actually would have been in going, well, staff, there,
(26:15):
you go for clients. Sorry, I've shut a bit like
that person did with you. I know, are seventeen just
shutting business kind of it now? Can you? And I'm
starting another one? So which is which is effectively what
they did? So you could actually of having a limited company.
Couldn't you have just shut the door, taken a few clients,
taken the clients that you wanted to sustain yourself, shut
(26:38):
the business, turned your back and left them all without
this stuff?
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Couldn't Yeah yeah, how could have done?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (26:46):
But you didn't.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah okay.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So I think when we look at when we look
at this and stuff going wrong, there are ways of
behaving that make that keep your integrity, which are your
which are sort of the core values that you probably
have as a person and had in your business. Anyway,
even if you didn't sit down and go, hey, here's
our values. So so you you you, you remained loyal
(27:11):
to your values and you did what you needed to
do to make sure that people were okay. And I
I think I think people appreciate that, but we don't
just just does that make sense? We don't. We're still
looking at that. Oh god, wen, I should have done that.
Your clients were fine, they were it was all nothing.
(27:34):
Does that make sense? It was nobody nobody was actually
really affected. Nobody disruption, nobody, nobody was out of pocket.
Nothing happened, and if it had have done, it wouldn't
have been your fault. It wouldn't have been because you
turned your back. It would have because it would have
been because actually there was another layer in there or
(27:54):
something else happening. And I think that that's sometimes the
do you do you think it's the shame thing. It's
all about what other people are thinking of us.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
Yes, because it.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Think.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
I mean, I've always been like ridiculously ambitious. I've always
kind of wanted being wanted and kind of trying to
prove people wrong as well when people say I couldn't
do it, you know, I've always wanted to prove them wrong.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Just watch me sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And the shame, the shame was about other people's judgments.
It actually wasn't about actions that you did, or people
who are materially, psychologically or psychologically out of pocket or
suffering in any way. It was just people are going
(28:46):
to think I'm daft, people are going to think I'm
not a very good business or what you achieved.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, definitely you shouldn't the man that you achieved, Absolutely right,
things happen, that you learn all that.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Stuff for you to come back again exactly the way.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
That you dealt with situations, that's a massive achieve Yeah, yeah, definitely,
you know, all of those different situations are massive things
to you know, some people couldn't even imagine dealing with
something like that, but on a smaller scale, I know.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I think the other thing is, especially when you're an accountant,
is that is that sometimes I think businesses, especially very
small businesses, but almost feel as though they're totally stupid
and their accountant sort of knows everything and they're infallible,
and they're looking down at them down their noses from
you know, from their ivory towers and just fiddle around
(29:39):
with some figures, whereas to actually sort of know what
that feels like to get it wrong.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Yeah, I've been there, and I know how you feel.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
When but also the clues as well, because you've been there,
and you know, because I'm sort of thinking that somewhere
along the line, there must have been little moments of disquiet,
little little red flags maybe where you were growing, stuff
was happening, you were bringing on new people, and lots
(30:11):
of yeah, yes, and that you and that you were
doing perhaps what we are told, and I'm using inverted commas.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Are we on video?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's probably running, it's run now, that's okay, but we
are it's the ability to use inverted commerces. But we're told,
you know, this is how you grow, this is what
you do. You take your first member of staff on,
then you do this, and then you do that. So
we're sort of doing that if you like the formula
the business, this is what you do. Whereas an actual fact,
there were little things that perhaps you had as little
(30:43):
red flags that may be Actually, I'm not sure that
I'm ready for that. I'm not sure my business is
ready for that.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
Ye listening to other people instead of I mean even
so much as taken on staff and I'd written in
my journal that I'd found later that I shouldn't have
hired that person.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
I don't trust them. There's something about them, and I
did not listen to that. You listen to.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
The biggest takeaway and all of that is that if
I have just all several points, you know, taken on
big clients, and there's lots and lots of red flags
that I didn't listen to, and yes, so that would
be the biggest.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I think you know that that going back to that,
you had, you know, one really big client where you
were finding all of these services and then they decided
to take it in house. This is not the first
time I've come across this happening where it's a very
big client. It takes a long time to service them,
so you have to have a lot of resources in
(31:45):
house to be servicing this client. And if you're you know,
perhaps tight on resources that actually everything goes towards servicing
and you know that you're vulnerable with this one client
I've heard hoping that we could build I've heard I've
heard of this happening so many times and people going
(32:06):
out for that one big client which which no longer
needs you, and somebody in an admin support. Now you
need sort of three or four members of staff, different
people specifically to look after this client. And they suddenly
go and guess what you're left with these members of staff.
And it's a really difficult one, isn't it, Because do
you turn you know, do you turn that client away?
(32:29):
Do you turn them away in the first place?
Speaker 6 (32:30):
From now, From now I'm looking at who I want
to work with, then yes, absolutely they wouldn't be part
of my business model now. So yes, a massive lesson.
I mean some people they build their businesses around that
sort of absolutely, but yeah, it's just sticking, you know,
really true to who I want to work with. And yeah,
(32:51):
and definitely diversifying and not having all your eggs in work.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
So it's exactly I was going to say about the eggs.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And one I think it's when you have that sort
of that big client that you need to feed the monster, yes,
don't you, and it makes you vulnerable. And you know,
it's a lesson that we learned sort of not as
early on as we should have done, but with managing
websites because we specialize in WordPress and then having other
(33:19):
people going oh, well I've got this one or can
you do that one? And then instead of saying, actually no,
we specialize in WordPress, we'd end up learning and entire
new management system for one person and just for one
person it's not worth it, and it's not And now
you know, I suppose we've learned to stick to you know,
(33:41):
we do WordPress.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Yes, I think what big clients are really good at
as well, and we've had a couple over the years,
but one of our biggest brands that we took on
would have been our biggest client, but we saw it
as a short term strategy. So though we weren't putting
all of our eggs in one basket, was thinking, Okay,
this is going to give us a really good could
step up in terms of the business and how we
(34:03):
could advance it a little bit more, bringing the right
team members, but not then obviously then just having that
whole focus on that one yeah, particular client, which was.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
But also it's a sight sorry. It was a slightly
different strategy though, wasn't it, Because I mean, I'm not
sure who these people were, and I'm not going to
ask you, but that brand was known and so it's
sort of thing not that you go out and tell people,
you know, willy nilly who your clients are, but that
brand was a known brand. So it's somebody that you
(34:32):
know if you said, oh and we you know, if
you said to a prospective client and we managed to,
they would have known it. They would have known who
who they were. Was that the case with this one
big client that you could have had a springboard effect
off with?
Speaker 6 (34:47):
Yes, we were at one point thinking that's what we're
going to do. We put ourselves out there as we
can be your whole finance function.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
But was the client well known? Because I think there
is slightly different if you can say, actually one of
our clients is the BBC or the whatever. It builds
credibility into your business, doesn't it a news are You've
worked with brands that household names and so that's you.
You know, that is not just about having that size
(35:15):
of business in your business. It's about having recognition. Yeah,
but so these were a big business but they were
in there, but nobody else would have recognized them. No, okay, No, I.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Had a similar situation to your story, so.
Speaker 7 (35:32):
I changed my model, like you're changing your model, which
is really a commence you completely listening to you. Have
you thought about maybe collaborating with bookkeepers, freelance bookkeepers so
that you can grow your market? I mean, I'm not
happy to talk to you afterwards as well about how
to grow your market with freelance bookkeepers that've already got
their licenses, they're working with other clients, but they also
(35:54):
want to work in practice.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
That's exactly my new model.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 6 (36:00):
Yeah, well, we'll definitely have a Yeah, definitely, I'd love
to help.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
But yeah, and so when I restarted the business last year,
I initially thought, I just want it to be me.
I just want to keep small.
Speaker 6 (36:12):
I just get you know, X amount of clients and
that kind of cover my carts, and that I don't
want I don't want to get big blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
But that doesn't always happen.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
That doesn't.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
And then the kind of the ambitious side of me
starts coming in a little bit.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
More and like, oh, I could help so many more
and I could do this and I can.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
And also I realized now that that was fear back then,
you know, yeah, how can I trust people again?
Speaker 5 (36:33):
How can I you know?
Speaker 6 (36:34):
And scared to get back into the same position, of course,
But now I realize trusting my instinct, doing it slowly
and then all gains exactly collaborating building those exactly.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
So yes, I can do it, but I can do
it differently.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yes you can.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, I just want to tap I just want to
sort of tap into that. Because is it the case
that when you take on, say as accountants, that you
start working with bookkeepers who have their own license? Okay,
Because what I'm thinking is I'm not sure that it's
any easier to get a hold of your branding and
reputation and that sort of thing. When you take on,
(37:10):
say a freelancer than an employed person, I suppose in
a way you can impose more rules on an employed
person than you can on a freelancer, potentially in.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
Terms of like working hours and things that's not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
But also in terms of sort of reputation your reputation
as a business owner is that if they are a bookkeeper,
they are going to have their own professional standards, aren't
they that they are going to have to maintain. So
your risk, if you like, of all of the other
stuff that I've waffled on about, your risk potentially with
taking on somebody to do that as part of your
(37:47):
team but not employed, the collaborating with them is potentially
less than say, taking on somebody who I don't know,
Say I took on somebody to work on my client's
WordPress websites and that sort of thing. There isn't a
professional qualification in WordPress websites that there isn't another organization
(38:09):
outside that they have to satisfy as as well as me.
So my risk potentially as far as that goes, is
a little bit greater because there isn't that sort of
external enforcements I suppose and money laundering which has taking
you for you taking on accountants and bookkeepers, and I
(38:30):
suppose also for HR people taking on HR the collaborators
health and safety. You know, there's a separate there's an
external organization. So it's a little bit more secure, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
It is?
Speaker 7 (38:46):
It is one hundred percent. I agree with you because
you don't need to be fairly qualified if you're an employee.
But if you are a freelancer, you're going to have
to be a qualified bookkeeper definitely, if you're going to
work and.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
There's a set of extern and absolutely they're.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Going to be aml compliant so.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Forth and be with a body and if they're not.
If they're not, it's not just you getting cross with them.
Actually they potentially can lose their whole business.
Speaker 6 (39:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (39:13):
I mean you can take on apprentices and apprentices grow
with the company, which I do.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
But I had some apprentices and they were great.
Speaker 7 (39:22):
But yeah, great if you've got the time, exactly, absolutely
agree with you on them.
Speaker 6 (39:27):
If you're not, so yeah, that's not where I want
to focus my time anymore.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
I want to be with clients doing the higher level.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
It's so different, isn't it. I mean I've had apprentices.
I think you have as well, so haven't you and I?
And in fact, it was having apprentices that really showed
me what I am just no good at I'm just
not I am useless at teaching people's training them.
Speaker 7 (39:56):
It's so funny because I'm the opposite. My train accounts,
so I can train apprentices and I am.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Isn't it, I'm absolutely, absolutely useless. That's why I don't
run training courses.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Training courses.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
It's all coming out, all nicely, it's all explaining so
out it all comes in my head.
Speaker 7 (40:17):
It's like, what is wrong with you?
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Why can't you get this?
Speaker 7 (40:23):
Then apprenticeships are not right, You're not right for your model,
there's no point.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
But it's also I think one of the things to
consider when you're taking when you're looking at your growth,
and that your growth is taking on employees who mainly
training in the way that you do things, or mainly
training actually in the profession themselves. Whereas I would think
with bookkeepers they already have that, they may need to
(40:51):
accept that there may be a different software system, or
that you collect stuff in on a Friday. But basically
there's a qualification. They're qualified, and you do it. Was
when you take somebody on and you're starting them almost
from scratch, although have a little bit of knowledge, you
are going to have to spend possibly your time, i know,
teaching them, answering their question. And if you're sat in
(41:15):
a corner, if you're sat in a corner with your
headphones in, with your iPad going, the next person who
disturbs me is going to.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
Die breakout sessions or pod sessions with the team and
say you can't talk to me until that time. You know,
we're all in the same office, so they can see
me because I look at them and they can see
if my head's down, don't.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Talk to me.
Speaker 7 (41:40):
If I'm looking up when I'm speaking, then talk to me.
They'll ask me a load of questions. But I love
that aspect of my job. I think I'm more of
a leader than the manager. And it's interesting you're saying
that you manage people and I'm the opposite. We've talked
about this before that I'm a leader and I lead
people to get there, if that makes sense, and I
love that aspect my job.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I'm just not a manager. I just I'm not a manager.
I'm not a manager. I'm not a manager at all.
I think I'm possibly a leader. I think my job
is coming up with weird ideas.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
You're a visionary.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, in some respects, I am. But I'm certainly not
a manager, and I'm definitely not a trainer.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Actually, to know what's next for.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You, well, we are. There's a few questions that I
want that I want to go through first, and we're
going to do that very very quickly because we don't
have a whole lot of time left. So what's your superpower?
You're not going to be thinking about this. What's your superpowers?
Speaker 5 (42:47):
My superpower I can sleep no matter how stressed I am.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Wow, that is a superpower. Okay, yeah, it's I Either
that's your superpower, it's why so I watched your kryptonite.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
Oh it's something that like really like repels me.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Or it is something that your kryptonite is your achilles heel.
Somebody only has to go and you go, oh my god,
and you collapse.
Speaker 5 (43:28):
Family okay, yeah, and children.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
The guilt. Okay, funnily enough, we have Katie Pelsy. It's
not funny enough. This is why she does it. Katie
Pelsy is an expert on guilt and family running your
business and she's speaking. She's back again speaking at the
Women in Business Big Show.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Really good.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
So hello, Katie, So what is your top tip for
being in business?
Speaker 6 (43:57):
Look at your numbers, do not avoid them, do not
bury your head in the sand, own.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Them, learn them, learn the language, run.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
The language, and don't avoid them.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
That's something I learned recently is I don't have a
money issue. Okay, And there are so many money you
get over your money problems. How about your the psychology
of I don't have a money issue. I have a
knowledge and understanding issue. Fortunately I also have an accountant
and a team who now are helping me know what
(44:30):
those numbers are, so thank you, Michael. But when you
have to know those numbers and be granular, yes, and
if you know that, do that first before you start
reading ten thousand books about whether you have a money
issue and whether something in your ancestry or I don't
know at the bottom of the pond that means you
(44:52):
you're not worth it anything that you can think, any
cliche that you can think of a book forget all
of that until you know exactly what is coming in
and out and what your profit margin is. That's my
that's true, that is my thing. Okay, So what do
you know now that you wish you'd have known when
(45:13):
you started out?
Speaker 5 (45:16):
Oh, trust my instinct, toush the gut, listen to that. Yeah,
that is everything.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Yeah, and how do you change people's lives?
Speaker 6 (45:26):
Now? How do I change people's lives giving them back
control by knowing their numbers, by understanding that stop them
feeling like they're just winging it. They actually have that
control over their business.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Stacey, How can people get hold of you they would
like to work with you?
Speaker 6 (45:43):
Email Stacey at Foster's hyphen Accountants dot co dot uk.
I've got website Foster's Hyphen.
Speaker 5 (45:50):
Accountants dot co dot uk, LinkedIn. I'm largely on LinkedIn.
They see Foster Kent this.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Is this is why I get people to write it
down and they all.
Speaker 5 (46:08):
Yeah, yeah, contacts me through the website and I give
I give all my clients my WhatsApp so they can
contact me through there.
Speaker 6 (46:16):
They can leave me voice notes and things. I just
find that easier to deal with.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
It's a brilliant way. Actually, So Michael and Future Insight
work like that as well. And it just means that
even if it's midnight and I suddenly think of something,
I can send it off.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I don't expect she's not I don't expect them
to be sat there going well sometimes morning, so but
just actually being that accessible makes such a difference, doesn't it. Right, Okay,
thank you so much for sharing your story, Stacey. I'm
(46:52):
really grateful that you have shared your story, just generally
and especially that you so I'm saying thank you on
behalf of all business me out there, which is just
really arrogant of your pretentious that you're sharing, that you're
sharing that story because we so much, so many of
us have shame, and you know what a waste of energy.
(47:13):
So thank you so much to you, Stacey, thank you
to Michael Future, and of course always thank you. Thank
you to Lovely zoy Cairn's always so supportive, always so
lovely for coming down helping me video trying to get
my acting order after after only ten years. So said,
(47:36):
see social media. So do you want to just give
a shout out to zaid.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
T Live zaid Sea Live one day social media event
on the twenty third of October at Struid Academy. We
have TikTok and cam for coming back to speak.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
And normal people.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
Normal people have about over four hundred pcome a network
and collaborate.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
It's a super event. So thank you so much everybody
for making this a really fun, lively discussion and we
will see you all again shortly on the Women in
Business Radio Show. Thank you bye.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Tune in next week to the Women in Business Radio
Show for more stories, ideas and inspiration to help you
grow your business.
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