Nomadic Travel with a Dog with Mitko & Sarah Karshovski

This week on the podcast we are joined by our friends Mitko & Sarah Karshovski. Mitko & Sarah are full-time digital nomads who are currently based in Mexico. In 2022, they adopted a dog named Dexter, and are here to share what life has been like traveling and being nomadic with a pet. In this episode, Mitko & Sarah share their considerations when deciding to get a dog, what is required to fly with a dog, how having a dog has made travel different than it was before, what they've learned over the last year of traveling with Dexter, and much more. Enjoy! In this episode:

• Mitko and Sarah’s life and travel highlights since they were last on the podcast in 2021
• The decision to get a pet and making sure it works with a nomadic lifestyle
• Adopting Dexter and the resources they used to find the right dog
• The filters to search with when finding an animal that is travel compliant
• The paperwork and procedures for flying Dexter from the US to Mexico
• Booking accommodations and knowing which places are pet friendly
• Cases where Mitko and Sarah haven’t travelled with their dog and how they arranged accommodations for Dexter
• Other tips and advice for traveling with a pet

Guest links: Cincy Scoop: https://www.cincyscoop.com/ Remote Insider: https://www.remoteinsider.xyz/

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Hello, and welcome to the WorldWanders podcast, a proud part of the
Wanderbarn podcast network. I'm Ryan,I'm Amanda, and we're your hosts.
We're a traveling couple and digital nomadstaking you on our adventures as we explore
locations, destinations, and careers.Enjoy the show. Hello everyone, and
welcome back for another episode of theWorld Wanders. We're very excited to be

(00:26):
back after our summer break to besharing some fun and exciting interviews with you
guys, as well as to becatching you up on everything that we've been
up to over the last couple ofmonths. So we've got lots of good
content on the way for you overthe next couple of weeks and months,
so stay tuned for that and veryexcited for this episode of the podcast.

(00:46):
We were joined by our good friendsMikko and Sarah Karshovsky. If these names
sound familiar, it's probably because Mitkohas been on the podcast twice before and
Sarah once before that, and they'rea full time digital nomads who are currently
based in Mexico, and that's howwe know them. We got to meet
them in person in Mexico and we'vebuilt a really great friendship over the last

(01:08):
couple of years of being in Mexicotogether, and in twenty twenty two,
the spring of twenty twenty two,mic Con Sarah traveled from Mexico back to
the US in order to adopt adog, and so they adopted a little
dog named Dexter, who is super, super sweet and super cute. And
this is one of the questions weget asked the most on the podcast anytime

(01:30):
we put out what topics do youwant to hear about? What questions you
have? People always ask about travelingwith pets, and so we wanted to
have somebody on the show who knowsfirsthand what it's like to travel with a
pet, and specifically to travel witha dog. And it's not just traveling
like basing yourself somewhere most of theyear and then taking vacations or taking a

(01:51):
couple of trips. Miken Sarah arefull time digital nomads. They travel constantly.
While they're currently based in Mexico,you know, even with that bay,
they've been traveling quite a bit.And so we wanted to talk to
somebody who is doing digital nomad lifewith a pet to see how it is
and if it's possible and all ofthat good stuff. So in this episode,
Mick coh and Sarah share some oftheir considerations that they thought about and

(02:15):
had and made when deciding to geta dog. They talk a little bit
about what is required to fly witha dog, how having a dog has
made travel different than it was before, and a little bit about what they've
learned over the last year of travelingwith Dexter as well as much more so,
if you're somebody who is really passionateabout traveling, who is maybe a
digital nomad or wants to be adigital nomad but has a pet, or

(02:38):
would like to have a pet,and it's just not sure if this lifestyle
is possible with a pet, mitCoin Sarah are here to debunk all of
your beliefs and just share a littlebit of the realities around what it's like
to work and travel with a pet. So let's get into it without further
ado. Here are mit co andSarah. Well, welcome to the show

(03:00):
today, Mitt Cohen, Sarah.We're excited to have you guys back on
the podcast. We're happy to behere, and we're doing this from the
same apartment that we recorded our lastepisode, right Yeah, I was actually
I was going to bring that up. So the last time you guys were
on the show was the spring oftwenty twenty one, I think, if
I'm not mistaken, and we recordedin person in the apartment that you guys
are in, but at that pointit was our apartment. Yeah, so

(03:24):
last time we were here, Yeah, you guys were staying here and we
were visiting and recorded this. Itotally forgot about that. And then we
did one on my podcast too.I think about Mexican residency, right,
look a switch ru Yeah, Iremember. Now. I don't know why
that. I whenever we talk aboutpast times that we've talked on a podcast,
I always think about the first timewe did a podcast together, which

(03:46):
was when we were living in WannaHills and Cincinnati. I can it's just
like the image that pops into myhead. So, yeah, twenty nineteen,
I wasn't there, but you threatedit. But for anyone who's who's
listen to that most recent episode twentytwenty one, I know you guys have
done lots of things and been lotsof places, but would have been kind
of like the travel highlights the pastcouple of years. Oh man, I

(04:09):
don't even know where to begin.I think the overarching theme is we've spent
a lot more time in Mexico.In our first few years of traveling,
we spent a lot of time inEurope, especially in Bulgaria. And I
think the last couple of years we'vespent longer trips. We've done longer trips
inside of Mexico. Yeah, andI think I'm trying to think about twenty

(04:31):
twenty one. I think we werewe went to Bulgaria, but Saraha deported
from Bulgaria famously, so that wasdefinitely a highlights not actually not actually,
but it's funnier this way. Andthen we've spent a lot a bit of
time in the US. Actually,we spent the last six months in the
US, which was like really nice. We've been kind of escaping the US

(04:57):
for the last seven years. Inthis past time, we spent six months
in the US and actually like enjoyedit quite a bit. So those are
kind of like the highlights. Iwould say, Yeah, I want of
you is a Mexican resident? Now, yes she is, Yes she is.
Yeah. So that was a onetwo VD. Yeah soon we'll figure
it out soon. Yeah, Iguess this is we can talk about this

(05:18):
another time, about why Sarah endedup getting a Mexican residency kind of spur
of the moment. But for awhile there it looked like she might be
the only person in the history ofthe world to be deported from both Bulgaria
and Mexico. But that did nothappen. She and said Mexican residency,
So it's like a happy ending towhat could have been a bit dramatic.

(05:40):
Well, and I feel like youguys also had another big update. You
guys added somebody to your family.Yes, oh my gosh, this is
not a child for anyone listening.This is our sweet little dog, Dexter.
We've been traveling with him. I'vehad him for a little bit over
a year now, and we've takensome flights with him, and it's it's

(06:01):
added a little bit of stress,but it's been really great to have him
in our little family. Yeah,it's And we're going to dive more into
that since that's kind of our topictoday, So maybe we can start with
I mean, when you're nomadic,when you're traveling full time, I feel
like obviously adding like a child isa level of challenge which we know about

(06:23):
and stuff like that, But Ifeel like a pet is kind of an
extra added challenge because it's not likeLou, for example, has the same
passport weekend. Therefore Lou can goeverywhere that Ryan and I can, But
I feel like it's not exactly thesame when you add an animal. So
I'm curious for you guys, like, what was the conversation like when you
were deciding to get a pet,because I know you're both like big animal

(06:44):
lovers. I know, Sarah youwere like a big driving force behind wanting
a dog, Like, what wasthe conversation like in terms of can we
actually make this work with our lifestyle? Yeah, I'll take over this story
if if Michael let me, ButI remember exact moment when this conversation first
started, because this hasn't been aconversation of ours in the last six or

(07:06):
seven years. We've kind of,you know, knew, we kind of
knew that this would be a compromiseof nomadic lifestyles. We can't have a
dog, and I've just I don'teven think I've ever asked for a dog
previous to this. And then wewere in Port vir To last year and
we were at a coffee shop andI saw this guy working from his computer,

(07:27):
and he was clearly an expat andhe was working from his computer and
he had this little dog sitting underneathhis chair. And I just looked at
him, and I'm like, whycan't we do this? Why can't we
have a little dog? You know, dogs can go on airplanes. And
I think in my mind previously,like we've always been big, big dog
people, so we you know,you can't. It's really hard to travel

(07:48):
with a big dog. And that'sjust kind of what I assumed we would
always have when we got a dog. And then I, to be honest,
didn't even really think about having asmall dog because we just never had
that experience before. So I camehome from the coffee shop that day and
looked at Miko and I was like, there's no reason we shouldn't have a
little dog, you know, there'slike we both want a dog so bad.

(08:09):
We've been doing this for you know, traveling full time without a home
base for six or seven years.We're starting to slow down a little bit.
Why can't we have a little dogto join us in our travels.
And to my surprise, I thoughtthere's was just going to be an immediate
no, and he said, wellthink about it. Thought about it for
thirty days, and I knew whenhe said I'll think about it, I

(08:30):
knew that was a I had amoment. Yeah, that was a critical
mistake. Number one was just openingup if you were in a relationship where
someone suggests something like this, openingup to possibility. I was like,
you know what, I'll give hera chance to play with the idea,
and then a couple of weeks it'lljust fizzle out. And what ended up
happening was that very quickly if weget a dog, to when we get

(08:54):
a dog, and that's when Iknew, and it spiraled out of control
and we were indeed getting a dog. There was at that point there was
no Sarah out of it. Soso you guys were starting to kind of
consider an animal, like pretty seriously. I guess like a year ago,
like spring of twenty twenty two.I think I remember we'd seen you guys.

(09:16):
I can't remember we saw you guyswhen you were here in Cetro and
I think may to meet baby Loufor the first time, and it was
like, Sarah, you were shoppingfor dogs already, and I think the
shelters were telling you, like,you need to be a little closer out
to this, and you still hada month before going back to the US,
so I think you guys must havealready had your thirty days and it
was more of the like when weget a dog at that point. Yeah,

(09:39):
and we actually came home with himon May. I think it was
May twenty eighth of last year,so and I think we're in like the
second week of May. So we'rewe're full force, just playing the waiting
game at that point. And theday after we got back from Mexico,
we went to get Dexter. Soyeah, we literally drove of almost from

(10:01):
the airport to get Dexter. Welanded in Chicago, and then the next
day we had an appointment at theshelter to pick up what eventually became our
dog. And so Sarah was like, no stops, we're driving straight through.
We're basically just sleeping in Cincinnati andthen going to pick up Dexter.
So that's what happened. So andso you guys had like found different shelters

(10:24):
online and kind of looked through thedogs there prior. Sarah, you're the
expert. Yeah, so there's apretty good website called petfinder dot com and
it works all around the United Statesand just all all shelters fosters. Everyone
can kind of upload a picture andsome information about the dogs. And we

(10:48):
had some guidelines that we don't wantto call it standards, but some filters
that we were looking through in orderto be kind of travel compliant. So
we're just looking through constantly in wayfor you know, a perfect little dog
to appear. So, yeah,me to walk us through what those filters
were, because I feel like that'dbe helpful if somebody's like, hey,
I love traveling, but I alsowant an animal. I feel like you

(11:09):
kind of hit on it before whereit's like big dogs provide like a little
bit more of a challenge than littledogs do. So let us know what
you were looking for. Absolutely,So I feel like we played really well
in our favor that we didn't havea dog prior to wanting to travel with
a dog, so we were ableto kind of pick and choose our dog

(11:31):
to meet our lifestyle needs. Soit was easy to kind of choose one
that would be able to travel easilywith us. So some of those filters
were size being number one, iswe were looking for a dog that was
between I think it was eleven andfifteen pounds or something. Yeah, wait,

(11:52):
was the number one filter that wewere looking for. We were looking
for a dog that was about Ithink ten to fifteen pounds, just to
play it extra safe in terms ofairline regulations with weight for animals in Dexter
was eleven pounds when we got him, Well, I don't know, something
like that. That was honestly themain one. We were looking for a

(12:15):
dog that was not going to growmore because if we got a puppy,
you know, they can kind ofguess what breed and what weight they're going
to get to, but there's notreally a confirmation on that. So we
are looking for a dog that wasbetween one and a half and two years
old to make sure they were mostlygrown out. So those were the two
main ones. Yeah, to kindof like I remember when we were originally

(12:39):
kind of like considering it. Wethose were the two big specifications, where
one was size was really the bigone. And I remember Sarah had done
this extensive research on all the differentairlines that are like popular and what their
weight limits were on dogs in thecabin, and I think like the most
agree rest of one was fifteen poundsseventeen pounds, and so we remember saying,

(13:03):
like, Okay, we don't wantto be limited on travel. So
if the most aggressive one meaning likethe lightest that or like the most aggressive
weight limit was seventeen pounds, meaningthat we wanted a dog that could go
on all the airlines, and sowe wanted a dog that was less than
seventeen pounds. The other thing waslike Sarah was saying, like yes,
like if you get a puppy,especially one that is mixed breed, like

(13:26):
a month, you like, they'lltell you, like what we think,
it's this dog, so it shouldgrow to be this size, but you
really have no idea, and sowe wanted We did research and we found
that dogs tend to stop growing aboutthe year and a half mark. So
we wanted to again get like adog that was at least a year and
a half, so we knew thatwe wouldn't that he wouldn't grow anymore because
like what happened with Dexter, wethought he was a Chihuaha mix. Turns

(13:48):
out there's no chihuaha in Dexter.So this can happen to other people.
And like more aggressive situations where it'slike, oh, this is a German
Shepherd, not you know, likesome other dogs. So this happened to
our friends. They're not trying totravel with the dogs. I think like
size and weight wasn't huge, butthey got a dog that they thought would
be like, I think, likea medium sized dog, but they got

(14:09):
him as a puppy and he's likea hundred pound dog. Now he's huge.
Yeah, So that was I thinkwe did it in an intelligent way
where it was like we kind ofplanned it out really well and we said
these are our non negotiables. Theother thing too, travel was I remember
there were some airlines that have restrictionson the snout, like on the snout

(14:30):
of the dog because like it's whatit's a pugs have breathing issues and so
they don't want them flying. Yeah, so they call it a short nose
breed. So that's like French bulldogs, pugs, English bulldogs. You can
look into more of what those are, but airlines, there are some airlines
that just have that restriction because theydon't obviously want to run into any legal

(14:52):
trouble or anything like that. Soand so if you have seventeen ish pound
and underdog. You just carry iton normal, no real extra stuff to
do. But bigger than that,you have to go through a big process,
put them in like a kennel toship them and stuff like that.
There's definitely still stuff to do.So there's i mean, just a lot

(15:16):
of paperwork up front, and we'vejust gone the route of being overly prepared
in terms of paperwork. And everysingle airline has different requirements with paperwork,
so so if you're traveling international,different countries will have different requirements on what
they need from the dog to travel, like vaccines or paperwork or whatever.
Maybe so it just ends up creatinga lot more research that you have to

(15:39):
do on what's needed for you totravel with your dog, even if they're
coming in the cabin with you.But yes, you're correct, Like if
they don't come in the cabin withyou, or if they're bigger, you
have the option of having it asa service dog went and then it can
be bigger, but that's obviously likea whole different topic. Or yeah,
like you have to put them underlike in cargo if they're bigger. Yeah,

(16:02):
so there's a lot for both options. There's just a ton of paperwork
to do ahead of time and justhave to be kind of over We've gone
the route of just being overly preparedwith all that. In addition to that,
making sure that you have a compliantcarrier, So like the carrier that
will go under the seat in frontof you, you have to make sure
that that is compliant with the airline. And it's a lot of like sizing

(16:22):
requirements. But the nice thing isa lot of the carriers on Amazon,
for example, will have TSA compliantyou know, in their in their SEO
and everything, so you can prettyeasily find them. But just make sure
to check that with the actual airlineyou're flying too, because just because it's
t SA, you have to makesure, you know, you also have

(16:44):
to make sure it's compliant with airline. Right. Yeah, And so flying
down to Mexico with Dexter, like, for example, what did you guys
need in terms of paperwork before youcame from us to Mexico. So we
needed to have just all of hisshots, like up to date shots.
It was a little little bit easiergetting him into Mexico compared to our actually
our domestic flight from Cadeto to Puertovirata. We ran into some trouble,

(17:11):
so it's easier to get him intothe country, but then after when we
took the domestic flight, it wasa little bit trickier. So I'll get
into that in a second. Buta lot of just vaccines, vaccine records.
Sometimes they'll require you to have anote from your vet stating that he's
healthy. What we did, yes, you should look at what both like
what the country has a requirements andwhat the actual airline has his requirements.

(17:36):
The other thing that we found wasthis didn't really work for us that great.
But when we went to the vet, we asked them, Hey,
we're traveling with our dog to Mexico. What do we need in terms of
documents that actually our vets said,oh, it seems like you don't need
anything. They have their own database, and thank god, we like didn't.
We were like, okay, great, that sounds easy, but let's

(17:56):
just do whatever like all these justto make sure that we're prepared. And
then we showed up, They're like, oh, yes, here's like all
these things that you need. SoI wouldn't. I don't want to say
don't trust your vet, but justI mean that's not there. They don't
do that much travel documentation with petsyet, it's just not that popular.

(18:17):
There is a website called paw Trip. Pawtrip I had the founder, Nicole
Kabba, on my podcast a whileactually, when we were planning on getting
a dog, And what they dois it's not consumer focused, but they
work with airlines for when you're bookinga flight and if you select that you
want to have a pet come withyou. They're essentially like a software that

(18:40):
plugs into the booking software to beable to tell you like, Okay,
great, you're traveling in this airlineto this country. Here the documentation that
you need. They're not customer facing, but I think that they have some
customer facing ability, so like,even though that's not their target, they
know there's a lot of people thathave questions about this. So last time
I checked, if you go ontheir website and you do type in like

(19:00):
I'm traveling from this country to thiscountry on this airline, that will kind
of give you general requirements of whatyou're gonna need. Got it? That
makes sense? And then do youwant to share with us, like the
domestic flight, Like, so youguys needed paperwork for your domestic flight?
As well. I'm curious if youknow if this is the thing in the
US. Also, yeah, I'mnot I'm not sure about the US quite

(19:22):
yet. But so, as Isaid, the entry into Mexico was pretty
easy. We just needed like arecord of all of his vaccines, just
make sure he's up to date,etc. We thought it would be very
similar, especially because we were flyingwith the same exact airline as our previous
flight, so we thought it wouldbe almost easier to get him from keet
Toto to Petavarda, which is adomestic one hour flight. We showed up

(19:47):
to the airport. This is ourfirst big mistake, and this is you
know why we really talk about doingresearch ahead of time, because this was
entirely on us and we were notprepared enough. But we showed up to
the airport with Dexter. We wereactually moving all of our stuff from Caretro
to Pratavarda and we're ready to geton this flight. And we got up

(20:07):
to the counter, showed all therecords of vccines. He was up to
date on everything, and we actuallyneeded a note from our vet in Mexico
within the last five days saying thathe is okay and healthy to travel and
we were just unaware, like wewere just unaware of this. Again entirely

(20:30):
our fault for not being prepared enoughfor this, but we were unaware and
we could not get on the flight. Like there was no there was no
getting around it. We could notget on the flight, and we actually
had to take another flight out acouple of days later. So they have
here, they have a little petpassports that we also didn't have, and
it's just a health record from Mexico, so everything's you know, translated,

(20:55):
and we did not have that.So yeah, we had to take another
flight a couple of days later.Also, the European Union also has these
health passports for animals that I thinkare probably similar in terms of traveling,
but the US doesn't. I don'tknow if Canada does. But that does
make it a little bit more difficultif you're traveling from a country which doesn't
have these health passports to then travelingto a country that does require them,

(21:18):
because it means you need to geta health passport there. So when we
went to our vet in Mexico andthey ended up having to renew some of
Dexter's vaccines here, they made apassport for him, so they can see
on the little passport, like thesame way that you get stamps when you
enter the country. It's like littlestickers of the vaccine, like he got
this vaccine at this day, andit needs to be renewed whenever. So
it kind of is like this likehealth tracker of all the things, so

(21:41):
that when you are traveling country tocountry, you know they can see what
the dog has had. In termsof vaccination. I'm wondering if maybe there's
something that you can do, eventhough vets in the US don't do those,
I'm wondering if there is something whereyou can like maybe buy ones or
I'm not sure, maybe there's I'dbe shocked if there isn't some service in
the US produces those for pets.Yeah, it seems like the big takeaway

(22:03):
is just like even if you've doneit one time, it's like not assuming
that requirements are going to be thesame, even if it's the same airline,
like making sure you check domestic international, making sure you know what's required
in the country you're going to.Obviously, just having a one hour flight
is like not a huge I mean, it sucks, obviously, but I
feel like it's like a good opportunityfor learning with that versus if you guys

(22:25):
were going like ten hours across theocean with like a thousand dollars flight or
something like that. So yeah,that's definitely good for people who want to
travel with pets. I'm curious kindof the other aspects of travel, like
what's it been like with booking accommodation, like our most places pet friendly or
they're places you guys can't stay now, Like what do you guys kind of
what have you found with that?So one of the great tips that we

(22:48):
received early on was from my friendChase Warrington, who's been traveling with his
dog, which is a big dog, it's a husky, for like six
years. And what he said was, do not look only for places on
Airbnb that are pet friendly. Justask them. So he was saying is
like you'll find way more people,especially with a dog that's de exercise,
like you know, ten to fifteenpounds. I think he's like actually right,

(23:11):
like thirteen pounds or some of that. That essentially just say like,
hey, look, I see thatyou haven't specified that you're pet friendly.
Here's a picture of our dog.And we always send like a really cute
picture in which he's like, lookslike really like you know, snugly and
whatever, and we say, isit. Are you okay with him?
He's like thirteen pounds, he's verylike whatever. And that has been a

(23:32):
really, really great tip because ifyou just search by pet friendliness on Airbnb,
the options just get cut very aggressively. Yeah, and we had we
had looked into this before. Thisis something that we weighed into getting a
dog. And this is like,you know, a year ago, we
didn't know how much we'd be travelingmore in the future, but we know
we knew we'd still be you know, taking trips and everything, and we

(23:56):
factored that into our decision making.Is you know, and I think we
saw about I want to say athirty to four this is not scientific,
but a thirty to forty percent decreasein place in Airbnb's when we applied that
pet filter. So it's a considerableamount less and there's definitely places that we
would like to stay at that maybewe couldn't. And sometimes, you know,

(24:18):
as as Michael mentioned, sometimes wemessage people and they do say no,
and you know, obviously we respectthat and respect their decision. But
yeah, we've we've we've come acrossa couple of places that we've just asked
and they've been pretty accommodating, especiallywhen they see his size. So in
terms of accommodation, I feel likeit hasn't given us a huge roadblock.
Yeah, our most hotels pretty prettydog friendly. Like it's somebody who doesn't

(24:41):
travel with an animal. I feellike, I just don't know these things.
They're more they're more strict, sothey don't you know, you can't
really message them and ask, youknow, can you make a second exception
for this small dog. Yeah.Yeah, so they're a little bit more.
They're a little bit more strict onthat and that that one, I
definitely we have noticed a decrease,but we are typically an airbnb, so

(25:04):
we haven't run into that quite yet. One thing, as like a side
note in terms of accommodation that wedid that I think it was a really
smart decision early on was such acrate training dexter and deciding that he will
always stay in a crate when we'renot there, and that he's going to
sleep in a crate and kind ofmaking it a friendly place for him,
not as like a punishment because whenyou're switching things, especially if you're nomadic

(25:26):
and you're switching locations and that locationis changing for the dog, they will
act out right, and they maybedon't feel familiar in that new apartment,
and so they might get destructive.And so creating a place that's always theirs
and traveling with a crate or buyinga similar crate or putting the same blankets
in there when you do get anew crate essusially kind of like makes a

(25:48):
familiar home for them every time.And I think that was like a really
smart thing, especially as we've changeda couple of apartments and we've even gotten
them two different crates. I think, no, no, we traveled,
Yeah, we have had two differentcrates, and then just using the same
blankets in there so that he recognizedit as home and as a safe place.
That was I think that has likereally paid dividends since we've done that.

(26:11):
Yeah, I was gonna ask,how has Dexter done with like moved
to a new country, moved tonew apartments. How has he been with
like those big changes? So he'sincredible with it. What we did read
was that his breed when we dida DNA test for Dexter. That was
his Christmas present, and we foundout that he's sixty percent miniature pincher or

(26:33):
something like that, and that miniaturepinchers are actually like very good with They
specifically said like great for travelers becausethey're very adaptive on that. So top
tip if anyone's nomadic and looking fora dog, look for miniature pinchers.
Yeah, awesome, Yeah, no, that's that's a great tip. And
then I'm curious about like just kindof general lifestyle things, like in terms

(26:56):
of you know, like you mentionedif you guys go out like you leave
meant but obviously it's not the typeof thing where, like you say,
you're in a new destination, I'massuming you can't be gone from like eight
am to eight pm and just leaveDexter behind. So what's it been like
in terms of, yeah, likeexploring with him, bringing him into adventures,
leaving him at home for adventures likegoing to restaurants cafes, Like are

(27:18):
most places pretty friendly with animals?Yeah? I feel like most places in
Mexico in general are pretty dog friendly, especially in Corretro felt very dog friendly
to me, and so does Portaviarda. I you know, I don't know
why I'm thinking about this right now, but it makes me think of,
you know, when we stepped outinto Mexico for the first time, Like,

(27:38):
does he know he's in a differentcountry? Does he know we just
traveled in a plane? Like,you know, it really makes you think,
Like, I know, animal ordogs especially are so smart and so
receptive to smell and just have somuch can know so much from smells.
But like, I don't even knowif he knows he's in a different country
or not, because we step outside, you know, in a new location

(28:00):
for the first time, and I'm, you know, all excited for him
being in a different country, andI'm like, does he just think he's
down the street or does he knowwe're like in a different country. I
mean, it definitely affects your lifestyle. Like, like you said, you
can't just leave and like leave himin the crate for you know, ten
hours. I think, like therule online is you shouldn't leave him in
a crate for more than three hoursor something like that. That's just what

(28:23):
the Internet says. But yeah,I mean, you there's another living thing
for you to think about, right, Like, you can't be one hundred
percent selfish and like I want togo from this cafe to this bar,
to this restaurants this you know youcan't do that. I think having a
small dog makes it easier for youto retain some level of that selfishness,

(28:45):
because the restaurants or cafes are gonnabe way more likely to let in a
small dog than a big dog frommy experience, And he can kind of
get go sit under your chair orkind of like people won't even notice him
sometimes. And I think also doingthat as early as possible with them so
they get used to what you expectfrom them behavior wise, like how to

(29:06):
behave in the cafe, so thathe'll sit down and relax. If you
just like bring him to a coffeeshop once every month, you know they
won't get used to it, theywon't know how to deal with that scenario.
But kind of like taking him often, I think he has helped that.
Where we personally struggle with his dexteris this like he gets so excited
when he sees other dogs that hejust starts barking and he wants to go

(29:29):
play with them. And I thinkthat we feel this like we get embarrassed.
We're like, oh, I'm sosorry that he's like bothering people about
them, like barking or whatever.So that's like our struggle is, like
now we have this like game toplay of like we want to take him,
like we want to go take awalk or explore, but like do
we bring him and he's going toadd this like additional part of like barking

(29:52):
in that I'm gonna have to dealwith him, and like maybe I won't
enjoy looking around this place as much. So this may not be for everyone,
but just for us personally. Ifeel like we play this like we
need to make this a calculation inour heads. Yeah, I know,
that definitely makes sense. I feellike there's so many relatable things to having
a small infant, although we can'tleave her in a crate at all.

(30:17):
I mean, Amanda, you andI talk about that all the time.
It's really funny we compare, youknow, traveling with a baby and traveling
with a dog. And I knowwe touched on this for a minute earlier,
but there's so many similarities that youand I have talked about over the
last year. A lot of youknow, pros and cons to each but
there's just so many different similarities likethat you and I have talked about with

(30:41):
that, So it's just funny comparingthose with you. Yeah, I know
for sure, it's been funny becausewe've been on this journey for like almost
the same amount of time. Likeyou guys got dextered just like a couple
months after Lee was born, andI think you were like not to like
compare having a baby, I know, having a baby so different, and
I was like, no, no, no, everything you're saying is very
relatable. Right now, I willsay like one of the things that we've

(31:04):
struggled being nomadic for such a longtime has been that there is a level
of loneliness that comes along with beingnomadic, right And like, after a
few years of being nomadic, youdo develop a community and friends that you
can see all over the world,but there's still this like level of like,
you know, there aren't those peoplethat you want to hang out with
every day in and out because peoplechange in terms of where they are having

(31:26):
a dog in some way, it'slike there's always this this other creature with
you that you can like cuddle andsnuggle with and like, oh, work
is being crazy today and I justneed to like you know, cuddle this
dog, and so there is itkind of does relieve this like loneliness to
some extent, And I imagine thatwould it would do that even more so

(31:47):
to someone who is single, becauseyou know, at least we have each
other. But if you're just constantlytraveling all on your own, you know,
you this, you have this animalwith you, now, it takes
it's definitely a two person job forus to take care of Dexter. So
I don't know if I would ifI if I was single, I don't
know if i'd get a dog becauseI would be like, that's too much

(32:07):
work just for me while also traveling. But yeah, I do like for
us, it's just been like reallygreat to have this other animal that kind
of makes whatever apartment we're in,whatever location we're in, feel more like
home. Yeah, definitely, yeah, I love that. One thing I
was going to ask you guys,was I know you've taken a couple of
trips where you didn't bring Dexter toSoutheast Asia to Europe? Was that the

(32:32):
main factor they're being like getting intolike some of these Asian countries is like
way more intense paperwork wise, ormore so just like long flights, the
logistics of it, a little bitof both, and also I mean it's
it's nice to have a break fromthe responsibility of having a dog. And
I feel like, you know,that's probably one thing that's a little bit

(32:55):
easier than having a child. Obviously, like maybe a lot of it easier,
Probably a lot of it easier.But so though, yeah, so
those are going to be really longflights, especially to Asia, and I
don't know if we'll ever do that. I don't want to say we'll never
do that, but it's not reallysomething that I'm very interested in, is

(33:15):
doing a twelve hour flight with adog. It sounds a little bit daunting
if we can. If we cando it with a toddler, I think
you guys can do it with adog. So He's One thing that we
did with Dexters is a very quickaside that has I think has really really
helped make flying with him easier iswhenever we traveled with him in a car

(33:37):
we put him in the same carrierthat he'd be flying in with, and
that somehow like reduced a shock forhim because I would imagine if he's never
been in one of those carriers andyou put him in there and you take
him on a plane and you doall these things that they're gonna lose their
minds. While Dexter got like reallyused to it. We actually just to
jump in really quick with that.We would actually put him in the carriage.
So I mean we took so manytrips in the car with him in

(33:59):
that carrier, just again to gethim used to that. And we'd actually
put it put the carrier on topof a rolling suitcase inside and like roll
him around a little bit because that'swhere he would be, you know,
in the airports and stuff like transferringplace to place. So we got we
kind of reduced the new variables inthe shock as much as we could,
and I think that had a hugehuge impact on his adjustment to flying.

(34:23):
Yeah, that that was definitely reallyeasy. And he does not like being
rolled around on top of the suitcase, I can tell you that much.
But I think for me personally,when I'm thinking about will we bring Dexter
or won't, it comes down tohow long are we there? Right,
So when we went to Asia's forlike three weeks, and so for me,
even though he's coming on the onthe plane with us, we're not

(34:45):
putting him in cargo. It's likeI don't want to I don't want to
put him through a fifteen hour flightif we're just going to be somewhere for
three weeks. Right when we wentto the reason why we didn't bring him
to Europe was because it was goingto be we flew from Mexico to Europe,
where we were for two weeks,and then from there we flew to
the US where we're going to befor a month, and then back down
to Mexico. And so I'm justkind of thinking about how much stress am

(35:07):
I putting on the dog with thattravel for the you know, like for
how long we're going to that place. If I'm going somewhere for three months,
even if it is Asia, Iyou know, that's okay, Like
he'll have three months where it's likenormal. But that I think doing the
like make like giving them the stressof travel over and over again without giving

(35:29):
them like like a long enough ofa break. Like That's kind of like
what I think about in terms ofdo we bring him somewhere or do we
not? Is like how long arewe going to be in this place?
Yeah? Does it seem like there'scertain regions that would be a lot harder
to travel around with the dog.Like I'm curious in like Southeast Asia,
that's felt like, oh it wouldbe possible here if it's seemed more complicated.

(35:51):
Yeah, you kind of like haveyou get these goggles of like now
you look through everything with like petparent eyes. I assume you have the
same thing like where you walk intoan apartment and go, this is not
baby proof. But yeah, forlike Southeast Asia, I think would be
extremely difficult. I think even Mexicois pretty tough. Like, for example,
in Mexico, you cannot have yourdog on the bus, So that

(36:15):
means if you want to have themon the bus, you have to put
them in the cargo of the bus, which there's no chance to put my
dog in the cargo a bus,So you have to either drive or you
have to fly, which I meanit eliminates, it eliminates like one of
the most affordable transportation options here inMexico. I'm going to counter that really
quickly. I don't want to sayI disagree with you, because I agree

(36:37):
with you to an extent on thebus, but I will tell you that
airlines are like Valarious. We've beenflying with Valarius with him, and it's
been amazing. Everyone's like, like, we've flown with them a few times
and everyone's just been really amazing.It's very easy, even with that slip
up that was entirely our fault again, but they were still so sweet.
They rebooked us, you know,rebooked us on a new flight for no

(36:58):
extra charge. The airlines are reallyeasy, and you cannot fly with dogs
on Ryanair in Europe at all.There's literally no option to do maybe in
cargo, I'm not sure, butnot up in the cabin. So flying
around Mexico is really easy. Valariusand Viva Aerobus they also allow up to
twenty seven pounds for dogs, whichis really high. It's like one of

(37:22):
the highest I've seen. So there'spros and cons of each. You know.
Ryanair's a big like that. Wefly Ryan Air all the time when
we're in Europe because it's just easy. There's a million flights, it's cheap,
it's easy, whatever, and sothat is a big downfall of traveling
with a pet in Europe. Yeah, the Mexico thing with flights actually makes

(37:43):
sense because think about especially if you'regoing somewhere where there's a lot of like
retirees, Like think about how manysnowbirds from the US and Canada want to
come to Mexico with their pets,right, So, like it makes sense
that the airlines would have a favorablefavorable rules for flying with pets. Europe
also, I don't know, butmy gut reaction is that Europe wouldn't be

(38:06):
great for traveling with a pet becauseEurope doesn't really have a huge pet culture,
like not like the US and Canadado. And I think because of
that, in Europe, especially certainparts of Europe that I'm from in the
East, they would kind of lookat you and go like, what do
you mean you want to travel withyour pet? Like why you know?
I mean, they wouldn't even likeI couldn't imagine telling a stewardess in Bulgaria

(38:30):
that I would like to bring onmy pet, and that I think that
it's unreasonable that they don't have apet policy. They would literally look at
me and say, you're an idiot. So I think that that would be
that would kind of tough. ButI don't know about maybe Sarah, maybe
you know, Western Europe does havea lot of great public transport, So

(38:50):
I'm wondering if if if flights,if Ryanair isn't great. I haven't seen
anything about trains because train travel isvery popular in Europe, and I could
see them being way more like responsiveto that. Yeah, it's really interesting
to think about just like how petculture is different in every country, and
you know, obviously there's like countriesthat might just be more attractive for you

(39:12):
guys to go with with Dexter basedon you know, the culture and how
people kind of like appreciate or don'tappreciate pets because they think it probably translates
over to like how many cafes andrestaurants you've can also bring him to.
And it's a real pain in thebutt if you're like in a city and
it's like every place you want togo do some work or go eat is
like, oh no, sorry,he can't be here, he can't be
here, et cetera, et cetera. I think I can only think of

(39:36):
like one instance that you guys raninto here where it was like, I
think you guys went to bring Dexterto a place that we all thought was
pet friendly and it was like,oh, they actually don't allow pets,
And it was something we didn't knowI was gonna say Mexico is specifically Mexico
City is like the pet friendliest placein the world. Like, and you
know, if anyone's been to MexicoCity, they understand why. You kind

(39:58):
of feel like, I'm like,oh, my god, is our dog
pretty enough to be here? I'mnot sure, but yeah, Mexico is
really uh is really pet friendly inthat way. But the other thing that
you start to think about is likeis the city that I'm going to green
enough? Like are there enough parksfor my dog? Are there dog parks?
Are there? Like places where ifI want to if I want to

(40:22):
go on a quick weekend trip,is there a place where I can drop
my dog off for a weekend that'sreally nice? It's like this like pet
infrastructure that you start to look for. Like one of the things in Kartro
that like made us love Quarretro tolike an even greater amount was what was
what were they called the dog Arcosthe dog Tainer. There was this place

(40:44):
it was like we were it waslike literally when we were trying to decide
if we should stay longer in Quarretroor not, it was like on the
pros and cons list was like theyhave Doctainer, which is this place that
was like just really really nice.It was done really well and you could
take the people were incredible. Theactual facilities were really nice. Like they
had dog hotels that had TVs andlittle beds and pillows and toys and all

(41:07):
this stuff. And you see thatand you're like great, like that's this
sort of like pet owner infrastructure thatis really nice to have, and then
you start to look for Yeah,that's really interesting. So when you guys
are kind of thinking about cities orgoing somewhere, you guys, do you
guys look for like vets. Doyou look for places where you could board
your dog if you want to goon like a little weekend get away or

(41:28):
be out all day or something forsomething like that. Yeah, we try
to. We have. We didboard him at dog Tainer for a weekend
when we were in Mexico City getingmy residency. We did that at dog
Tainer. So we do look upvets as well. And a lot of
it's just showing up and you know, finding a few places online first and

(41:50):
seeing what options are and then goingin person and meeting the people and you
know, seeing seeing how they are, seeing how they are with Dexter,
and just kind of getting a feelwhile we're there. But we definitely take
that into into account. And thisis like a con from Mexico. I've
found It is like if we takeMexico City out of the kind of running,
because Mexico City is its own kindof thing, I feel like Mexico

(42:12):
doesn't have that big park culture thatyou'll find in like Europe for example.
So in Caretro, we kind ofstruggled to find a park that was really
great for Dexter, where you know, maybe that was close to us and
where we could like run him andlike let him off the leash. Here
in port of Arta, it's thesame, like there's really no big green
park where we can take him wherehe can get some of that. So

(42:37):
I kind of personally I look forvets and I look for that. Now
is like, is there a park, Like when I'm on Google Maps,
so I see a big green parkthat I think Dexter would would enjoy,
And you kind of just like addthat to your when you're looking at the
next place to go, you justkind of add that to your you know,
checklist of things that that place shouldhave ye. Yeah, that makes

(42:57):
sense, And you guys mentioned thisbefore, and I just think it might
be valuable for listeners. They knowwe know the answer to this question,
but can you share what you guysdid with Dexter when he went on your
two big trips that he didn't comeon. Absolutely, So we are very
fortunate to have great people in ourlives that love spending time with Dexter.
And so when we were in SoutheastAsia in December of last year, he

(43:22):
actually stayed with Mikko's parents in Ohio. So they have a big dog that
is loves Dexter. Dexter loves her. Miko's parents love Dexter. It was
just a really good situation to leavehim there. There's a backyard, so
he was there for about three weekswithout us. And then most recently when
we were in Europe and the States, we're living directly next doors and we

(43:45):
share a wall with two of ourreally good friends that are living with us
here in PV Puerta Verda and Hannahand Kim, and they also have a
dog that Dexter loves, So itwas really cool because our apartment was empty
during that time. And again weliterally share a wall with them, so
if he needed some time to himself, they could take Dexter back to his

(44:07):
home apartment where he's really familiar andjust kind of, you know, take
some time by yourself instead of byhimself, instead of being with their dog.
So we've just been really fortunate tohave people that have been incredibly helpful
and love spending time with him.So yeah, and on that note,
like that's another really big pro abouthaving a small dog is like when you

(44:30):
ask people for a favor like that, it doesn't seem as big of a
lift because he's not a German shepherd. He's not eighty to one hundred pounds.
He's this like very manageable small dog, and they don't feel like it's
like I feel like I'm not askingI mean, I'm definitely asking me a
lot from people when I asked himto watch Dexter, but like it doesn't
feel as daunting I think when youdo that. The other thing as well,

(44:55):
is like, in terms of youknow, talking about Hannah and Kim,
is their dog is actually like big, it's like a German Shepherd mix,
and seeing the difficulties that they strugglewith in terms of mobility, like
how you know, it's it's tentimes as difficult for them to travel as
it is for us, because there'sno chance that they can bring see on

(45:17):
the plane in the cabin. Theyhave to essentially put her in a crate
in the cargo. And I thinkthat that's really taxing on the dog,
but it's also really taxing on youas the dog owner, because like you're
worried, like what's going on inthe cargo? How stressed is my dog
during that period, Like I'm notthere to be with them, Like you
can't explain to the dog what you'redoing, and so it's just like another

(45:39):
really big I would, having spokento people who have traveled quite a bit
with a dog in the cargo likethat, it just I would really really
really advise people not to do that. Like get a small dog. And
the thing for us was like gettinga small dog that has long legs,
because they can do a lot ofthe stuff that dogs can do, like

(46:00):
dextra loves going hiking. If youget a small dog with short legs,
it becomes really restrictive on their actuallike mobility in terms of like being well
to go on long walks or hikesor whatever it may be. And so
getting a small dog with long legs, I feel like you end up getting
a little bit of like the bestof both worlds. Amazing. Well,
I'm curious, do you guys haveany like final tips or words of wisdom

(46:22):
for anyone who might want to travelwith a pet. I feel like what
I'm hearing you guys say is thatit's like, you know, there's a
little bit of extra planning. Itcan be a little harder in some regards,
but it's definitely been worth it.Yeah, it has been worth it.
I will just touch on really quicklybecause I don't think we mentioned this
there is you do have to payfor your dog to come in to carry
on with you. That typically rangesbetween eighty two I'll say, at absolutely

(46:45):
craziest would probably be like two hundreddollars usually around I think we've paid around
one hundred issh each time for flightsto and from Mexico. So I just
wanted to touch on that really quickly. That and I think just again,
I know we've talked about this earlier, but getting them as prepared as absolute

(47:07):
possible to go on a plane beforethey actually go on a plane, getting
them to love their little plane carrierand just getting them really familiar with that
has been a game changer for us. And just do as like as much
research before getting a dog and beforeyou go on a plane as possible,
and just overly overly research everything becausewe were we were so prepared with everything,

(47:30):
and I felt it's daunting bringing youknow, it's daunting bringing a dog
into your travel lives. But it'sactually been a lot easier because I feel
like we are so overly prepared.Yeah, And I would also say,
like use your location to your benefit. And dog training is very, very
expensive in the United States. Doyou go to Mexico, specifically in Mexico

(47:52):
City, it's such a big dogcity, Like you're saying, part of
this Spania, Like you'll see trainerswith dogs, They're working with dogs all
the time. Like use your location. You're nomadic, like use your location
to your benefit. Go to acountry where there is affordable on high quality
dog training and you can actually getsome of that benefits. So you're not
just traveling because you want to travel, but you can travel to a location

(48:15):
that you enjoy and also you canhave a benefit to your dog. Where
we paid for training in Mexico andthat was beneficial. We should have probably
done more of it, to behonest, but you can do that.
It's way more affordable than what youwould pay in like the United States or
Canada. Awesome. Yeah, that'sa great that's a great tip. Give

(48:36):
any other questions. Great, No, I think you guys hit on everything.
The only thing I was going toask to kind of as we wrap
things up would be like, what'son the radar for you guys over the
next couple of months. So weare probably going back to the United States.
We were just there for a monthbecause friends of ours were getting married,
and we just like really enjoyed itand it felt like home, and

(49:00):
we kind of both didn't really wantto leave, and we wish that we
could have stayed. And we've beentraveling full time for seven years, and
there's a point where you kind ofget tired and you want to settle down,
and I think we were feeling alittle bit of that when we were
in caretro But we're also very andI'll let Sarah talk here and stop hogging
the microphone. But we also lovethe city that we're from in the US,

(49:22):
which is Cincinnati. And I keeptelling people that they should go visit
Cincinnati because I love it so much, and people go and they like it,
and it's we just want to Wejust want to spend like a year
or two there. And I havethis, I have this like fantasy of
being a character and how I metyour mother and being able to walk down

(49:44):
to a bar in my apartment andknow that my people were going to be
there. So I think we're lookingfor a little bit of whatever that is.
Yeah, I feel like it's beenI don't want to say it's been
a turbulent ear, but we've hadsome some shakeups and I feel we have
we even before and nothing serious,but just you know, things that are

(50:06):
just making us crave being home andnot necessarily homesick, but just wanting to
stay put for a little while.And we'll always have We'll always be traveling,
you know, the coast from Bulgaria, and we'll always go back there
pretty frequently. And I I,you know, it's it's kind of trying
to balance not viewing this as anend to our nomadic lifestyle or end to

(50:30):
traveling or anything like that. Butmaybe and I know, Amanda, you
know, I've talked about this alot, but just having kind of a
home base for a little bit andseeing where the wind takes you after that.
So we're excited to kind of findthat a little bit more. We've
been a little we've been constant forconstantly moving for a really long time,
and we're just excited to have allof our stuff in one place for a
little bit. Yeah. I know, it's nice. I mean we've been

(50:53):
we were kind of forced to settlethrough having the baby and stuff like that,
and I feel like it's been It'sreally nice. And I think that's
like a commentary on nomadism in generalwhere I don't think that I think people
who make digital nomadism their identity areactually like it can be you put your

(51:15):
you put yourself in danger of kindof like being coming to this point where
you're like, hey, i'd reallylike to stop traveling, but it's part
of my identity and who am Iif I stop traveling? And I think
that actually, I think digital nomadismwill become more like the gap year that
people used to do, like aftercollege or before college, where it's like,

(51:36):
hey, I work remotely now,I have a place that I call
home where I'm going to be forhowever long maybe, but maybe I'm gonna
do six months where I'm nomadic,or maybe I'm gonna, you know,
get rid of the apartment and goand be nomadic for a year, but
I'm gonna come back to my homebase, whatever may be. I think
that this idea of like I'm adigital nomad now and I'll be a digital

(51:57):
nomad forever is can kind of bedangerous. So I think we're in the
point where we want to just chillout for a little bit and then maybe
in a year or two will benomadic again for a little bit and then
come back home and yeah, we'llsee. Yeah. I love that.
I wanted to ask because I knowyou guys have some like cool work projects
on the go. Can you sharewith us a little bit about what you

(52:19):
guys are working on and where peoplecan go to find that stuff. So,
as we are thinking about moving backto Cincinnati in the next year or
so, we're definitely going to bedoing that. In the next few months
to a year. We have beenworking on a project called since Scoop and
that is a local newsletter for Cincinnati. I like to think of it as

(52:40):
the skim for the city of Cincinnati. It just has a really young voice
to it and just keeping everyone intouch with what's happening around the city.
And so that's a fun project thatwe are excited about. We are.
It's just since scoop dot com andyeah, and then personally, I also

(53:02):
started a newsletter at the start ofthis year called a Remote Insider, which
is at Remote Insider dot x yz. And it started out as kind
of like the Skim or the Hustle, but for remote work. So we
chair everything's going on in the remotework world, from news to different developments.
We do tech reviews, like justinterviews with people who are remote workers

(53:24):
and are doing things in an interestingway. So, yeah, that's interesting.
It's Remote Insider dot x y z. We're just on a really big
newsletter kick right now. No,I love it, and I will say
that I have unsubscribed to almost everynewsletter I've ever subscribed to, and I
really enjoy Yoursnica. Oh, thankyou, I will, I will,

(53:45):
I will Venmo you for the forthe shout out. This episode is sponsored
by the don't they don't have Venmo. They're Canadian. Amazing guys. Thank
you so much for your time today. It's been awesome. To catch up
with you, to chat all thingstraveling with a pet. And yeah,
we just appreciate your time and sharingall your knowledge. Thanks, thank you
so much for having us, Thanksfor having us, Thanks for listening to

(54:07):
this episode. If you want more, make sure to check out the World
Wanders Insider available on Patreon at patreondot com. Slash the World Wanders for
show notes, head over to theworld wanders dot com. Find us on
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World Wanders at Community for Travelers.You can always get in touch with us

(54:27):
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