October 26, 2023 • 42 mins
This week on the podcast we are talking about air travel with a baby from 0-12 months old. We kick things off by sharing the different stages and ages that we've traveled with Lou and what we've learned through these different trip. We also share our top tips for traveling with a baby from 0-6 months old, as well as our tips and what changes traveling with a baby from 6-12 months old. This episode includes tips on traveling with car seats, strollers, baby carriers, diaper bags, how to pack for a flight, snacks, activities, the difference between traveling with a small baby vs. an almost toddler, why traveling at this age is actually awesome, and much more. Enjoy! In this episode:
- Differences in traveling with a 0-6 month old baby and a 6-12 month old baby
- Things to consider prior to boarding the plane with a baby
- Our experience flying with a baby on airlines in the past
- Car seat and stroller setups for traveling
- Going through airport security with a large baby scroller and what to be aware of
- The biggest issue with having a baby on a plane
- The two biggest changes we made with Lou getting older
- Other tips and thoughts on air traveling with a baby
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hello and welcome to the World Wanderspodcast, a proud part of the Wanderbarn
podcast network. I'm Ryan, I'mAmanda, and we're your hosts. We're
a traveling couple and digital nomad's takingyou on our adventures as we explore locations,
destinations, and careers. Enjoy theshow. Hello, and welcome back
to the World Wanders podcast. We'revery excited that you're joining us today.
(00:26):
Today we are diving into a topicthat we've been living with for the past
almost two years, which is flyingwith babies and toddlers. So Louise visited
six countries now, some big flights, some small flights, and so we
want to dive into what it waslike during her first twelve months, and
(00:46):
we're going to kind of divide itinto two sections, six months and six
months and talk about kind of themost important things we found, the tips
that were valuable, the tips thatweren't valuable, and everything around traveling with
a baby in the first year yearof life. Yeah. Absolutely, And
so this is something that I actuallyfound was quite hard to find information about
(01:07):
or tips about online, and soI turned to my other parent friends who
I knew I had traveled with babieslike the same age as Lou when we
were first traveling with her to gettips or you know, turn to social
media to ask questions and get advice. And then I was just recently talking
with a friend who has a sonwho I think is about four months old
now and they're about to take theirfirst trip upcoming around the holiday season,
(01:30):
and she was asking me all thesequestions, and I was like, I
feel like we need to just createa resource on this. And I think
the reason that there aren't a lotof resources is because you can't just say,
like, here's tips for traveling witha child, or here's tips for
traveling with a baby, because Ifeel like it changes so much depending on
what phase your baby's in. Soeven zero to six months and six to
twelve months, as we're going totalk about, is a pretty big developmental
(01:53):
age range. But I think betweenzero and six months, like in general
or experience was that traveling with Louthrough that age range was was pretty similar.
And then saying with like the sixto twelve months, and obviously it's
just going to differ depending on whenyour child rolls and sits and starts walking
and crawling and when they start eatingand if they're still breastfeeding, et cetera,
(02:16):
et cetera. So maybe we'll startby just giving kind of an overview
of where we traveled with Lou andat what age, and then we'll dive
into some more specific tips for thisyear to six month age and then the
six to twelve month age. Yeah. So Lu took her first flight at
almost five months, which was actuallya solo trip that you took with her
(02:37):
to meet me in Montana, andthen we flew back to Mexico when she
was six months old, and thennine months old, took another trip eleven
months, kind of took her herbiggest trip at that point, which was
down to Panama and then on toColumbia. And then at fourteen months,
we did our biggest trip yet,which was to Japan. Yeah. Yeah,
(03:00):
and we have some resources with Japan. We did a lot of episodes
kind of around that trip, sowe do have an episode on preparing for
jet leg and long haul flight andall that type of stuff. It'd been
a long time at that point sincewe had done a flight like that,
so I think we had a littlebit of nerves and anxieties, and then
also we'd obviously never done that with, you know, a baby slash toddler.
(03:22):
But backing up a little bit,like like you said, Ryan,
our first flight with Lou was actuallyjust her and I and it was on
we were driving our car from Mexicoup to Canada, and we decided that
that was a really really long drivewith a small child. She was,
yeah, just about five months atthat point, and so you left Austin
(03:43):
a little earlier than us to drivefrom Austin to Bozeman solo. And then
I flew with Lou from Austin toBozeman on my own. So we kind
of took solo trips. And thiswas where I really turned to my community,
because you know, I'd never flownwith a baby before. And so
oh, yeah, let's talk aboutthis like zero to six month range and
kind of what we learned from thatexperience. Because then shortly after that,
(04:06):
within a month, we turned aroundand flew back to Mexico, which is
not a long haul flight by anymeans, but it's definitely like a full
day of travel with a six monthold, which is kind of a lot.
Yeah, and so we kind ofdrew the line around six months to
for a few reasons, so beforethat, probably not really but definitely not
(04:27):
moving on their own, most likelyto just only be breastfeeding or drinking milk
and maybe not even sitting in thoseearly stages, and then doing a lot
more sleeping as well. Yeah,for sure. So I think that there's
a lot of pros that come withthis early stage because they do sleep a
lot, so you don't really needto have activities for them. You don't
(04:48):
need to have food for them unlessyou've started them on solids early. And
so basically what you need is yourcar seat stroller setup. I don't have
a stroller that works with your carseat. I think that this is really
key for travel. We have thecity Jogger setup, and so we had
(05:10):
the car seat that she actually useduntil I think just when we got back
from Japan, like around fourteen months. It was very clear that she was
too big for it at that point. But it's basically the stroller, you
know, pops open and then thecar seat is in it, and so
that's what we traveled with for thatand it's pretty awesome because you can gate
check that, so even though it'stwo pieces, you just pop it apart
(05:30):
and you can gate check it,which means you get to take your stroller
and car seat all the way throughuntil you're right about to get on the
plane. And I feel like thisis super super helpful for you know,
checking in going through security, ifyour baby's like falling asleep waking up again,
it's just super easy to have that. So I would definitely recommend having
a setup like that. If you'renervous about gate checking, you can just
(05:53):
check in with your airline. Ithink one of the things that was really
helpful for me was just calling theairline. I think I was flying American
for that trip, and so Ijust called them and said, like,
hey, I've never flown with aninfant before. Can you just walk me
through like what I can bring,you know, what I'm allowed to have
on the plane, what I needto pay for, all that type of
stuff. And they just walk methrough everything. And airlines and our experience
(06:15):
are really gracious with children. We'venever had an airline that wouldn't, you
know, gate check our stroller,gate check our car seat. You get
a diaper bag as an extra bagso that doesn't have to count, and
then we can talk about this ina little bit. But if you are
you know pumping or doing formula.There's also additional options for that. Yeah,
I'm sure there's an airline out there, but yeah, check with your
(06:39):
airline for sure. But I thinkwe've flown a couple US ones, a
couple Latin American ones, a coupleCanadian ones, and it's always been the
case. But yes, always checkwith your airline, and especially if you're
flying a budget airline, I wouldjust confirm because I feel like budget airlines
are not always as gracious with spaceallowances. Yeah, Canada surprisingly was by
(07:00):
far the best. Why is ithelpful to have the car seat stroller set
up versus just like an almost stroller. Well, between the in the zero
and six month age, they're notbig enough to actually just be in the
normal stroller because they're not sitting independently. So you're going to either have a
car seat setup or you're going tohave like a basinet setup. I feel
(07:26):
like the bacinet setup is just alittle bit trickier with travel because then you
still need the car seat. Sohaving the car seat is really nice if
you're going to be doing any cartravel wherever you're coming from or wherever you're
going, So it's so handy tohave the car seat, you know,
pop it into the car, popit off, pop it on the stroller,
(07:46):
you know, take it into theairport, that type of thing.
But I think the biggest thing islike zero to six months babies are too
small to be in kind of yournormal stroller that you would think of got
it. And so when it comesto the on the plane flying part with
kind of a younger baby, what'skind of the important stuff there? I
(08:07):
think the main fear people have islike baby screaming the whole time. What's
kind of like the important tips youfound? Yeah, so maybe we can
back up a little bit because Ifeel like there's a lot that kind of
goes into like the pre actually gettingon the flight. I mean, if
you're doing a shorter flight and youcan coordinate it around like a nap,
(08:28):
obviously that's really helpful. It's hardto do that type of thing. So
I think just doing your best,but trying to set yourself up for success
with your child, being able tolike not be super tired, not be
super cranky, you know, beingable to like kind of get as normal
of the routine as possible. SoI think that that's kind of key and
then I would say, you know, getting to the airport nice and early
(08:50):
is really helpful. We never usedto be like super early people to the
airport, but I think now thatwe've got lou we just try to get
their extra early and then we havepriority passed through our American Express. And
I feel like if we didn't,I'd definitely be looking into this because it
gives lounge access and I feel likethat's been so helpful. I feel like
(09:13):
it's really nice to have a quietspace. Airports are so overwhelming, they're
so overstimulating, they're so noisy,and I feel like, you know,
getting on a plane where it's likebusy and noisy with a really overstimulated baby
can just be, you know,a recipe for disaster. And so I
think setting yourself up for success inthat way if you can, can be
really helpful. And I mean,the great thing about zero to six months
(09:35):
is that you don't have to worryabout packing snacks and you don't really have
to worry about packing activities. SoI think the biggest thing is just making
sure that you're kind of all packedfor anything that might happen. One of
the tips to answer your question thatI got early on is that a lot
of babies will have blowouts on airplanesor kind of as you get up into
(09:56):
the air, they might take areally big poop, and so just being
prepared for that, So I'd sayhaving a ziploc bag with a diaper,
wipes, and a change of outfitreally easily accessible. So I think the
hard thing about zero to six monthsis that like often they're not sitting independently,
or you know, they're kind ofjust a bit more a blob like,
(10:18):
and so you it's a little bitmore sketchy to just like leave them
sitting on the seat, especially ifyou're by yourself. So it's really nice
to just have things easily accessible.So I would say making like a little
like you know, obviously you haveyour diaper bag, you bring all that
stuff, but make a little bagthat you can just easily put in the
pocket in front of you that's gotwhatever you need. So if it's like
(10:39):
your airpod's cell phone book for oncebaby goes to sleep and then you know,
if your baby takes so soothing,definitely have that. And then I
would say have a diaper or twowipes and at least one change of outfit.
I would say probably bring two changesof outfit on the plane, maybe
more if you're going on like alonger trip. I just feel like there's
(11:00):
nothing worse than not having clothes foryour kids, and maybe even bring something
for you because the baby is goingto be on you. If they have
a blowt on you or pee onyou, then you're stuck in those clothes
for the whole trip. But definitelysomething for them that's easily accessible. I
would say change baby before you geton the plane, because the change tables
are super small. Like I thinkI changed lou on that first flight I
(11:24):
took. She was not even fivemonths old. I mean she's like always
been a healthy size, but Iwouldn't say she's like huge huge. She
was like hanging off of the thing. I was like, this is super
sketchy. Definitely don't want to dothis again. So I avoid at all
costs having to change around the plane. Of course, there's just times where
you do have to, but Iwould change the baby before you get on
(11:46):
the plane. And then one morething I'll add is that I think having
some sort of baby carrier can bereally helpful. And this is really great,
like you know, even for goingthrough security can be really helpful.
But as you're getting ready to goon the plane, maybe just pop the
baby into the baby carrier so thatyour hands free as you like take your
(12:07):
stroller and car seat apart. Itmakes it a lot easier, and then
you can get on the plane.You can put your stuff up in the
bin, you can put your stuffin the pocket, and then you can
sit down and like unwrap the babyor pop them out, and then you're
just seated. And I feel likethat is really helpful. I did have
a friend suggest that to me,and I didn't do that that first flight,
and I was like, oh,I could totally use another set of
(12:28):
arms basically. Yeah, And whenit came to going through security when we
had the bigger stroller, what happenedwith that. Yeah, So it kind
of depends on where you're going.The US is definitely the most intense with
strollers. They if you have astroller that's too big to go through the
security, like thing that you wouldput your laptops and stuff through the security
(12:52):
I don't know what the X raymachine. Yeah, they'll take it to
the side and they'll swab it.Depending on what airport you're flying out of
in the US, they do sometimeshave like family lines or stroller lines or
wheelchair lines, and then everyone's goingthrough with devices, so it's just set
up a little bit better. Butyou just have to watch your stuff because
(13:13):
they'll often like take your stroller,pass it through like the thing you walk
through, and then they swab itfor whatever, and you just got to
wait for it. I think dependingon the age of your baby, sometimes
you can walk through probably the agenttoo. Sometimes you can walk through with
the baby and the carrier. Ifeel like my experience has been that they've
wanted the baby like held out infront of me and so yeah, no
(13:37):
sooth, there's no stuffed animals anythinglike that. So I feel like for
me, it's just worked to likeget everything out in the tray, like
put the laptop out, put yourstuff out, then get the baby sorted,
hold the baby, push the stroller. They'll take that. You walk
through, and then it's just likehard putting your stuff back together because it's
like all your stuff comes through andyou're still waiting for your stroller and there's
(14:00):
like nothing you can do with thebaby. So that might be a good
opportunity for like maybe you have yourcarrier out see if they'll let you go
through with the baby and the carrier, and if not, you've got the
carrier to like put the baby backinto your hands free. It's just different,
Like if you're traveling with help,grandparents, etc. Makes it a
lot easier. But I found,like the two trips I've done solo,
(14:22):
it's just like a lot when you'vegot a small child, Like it's been
so much easier since lou is ableto stand, she can hold hands,
she can walk on her own.You know, it just makes it like
so much easier in a lot ofways for like security and stuff versus when
you've got a baby that literally likecan't even sit. Yeah. And then
so when it comes to being onthe plane at this stage, it seems
(14:45):
like the biggest issue is the pressurein the baby's ears and kind of when
you're doing takeoff and landing right,Yeah, absolutely. So the advice that
I was given and kind of whatwe've done that I feel like has worked
really well is like, you know, if the baby's asleep, obviously you
don't need to wake them or anything. If they're awake, just let them
do their thing, let them,you know, play around or whatever.
(15:09):
And then if you're breastfeeding, thenas you're kind of getting onto their runway
and getting ready to take off,you can latch baby onto your boob so
they start sucking. If they arenot breastfeeding, you know, have a
bottle prepared for that. So ifthey are like formula fed, make sure
you've got or just drinking out ofa bottle. Make sure you've got a
(15:30):
bottle ready for that kind of time, and try to wait so that they're
like ready and keen to eat forthat time. Or if they're really not
at a period of time where theywant to eat, then I think having
a soother or something they can suckon is really helpful. Obviously it's challenging
if your child doesn't take a soother, but I feel like that has always
(15:50):
worked for us. So the firstfew flights, and I mean even probably
up until Japan, like our goto is just like we get in,
we get settled, Lou plays alittle bit, does her thing. As
soon as we're kind of on therunway, put her on the boob,
she nurses, and I mean it'samazing because in those early days she just
(16:11):
nursed right to sleep and then slepta good chunk of the flight, so
really handy. I could pop AirPodsin, listen to a podcast, or
you know, read my book,kind of do my thing. She doesn't
just go to sleep with that typeof thing now, which we'll talk about
when we get to the second section. But I think that that's really key.
The thing I found a little bitharder is descending so going down,
because the descent is a lot longer. Like takeoff is pretty quick and you
(16:34):
hit altitude pretty quick, but goingdown is often like thirty forty five minutes.
So depending on your baby. Again, if your baby takes a soother,
you could start with a soother.If they take milk, you could
start with milk. But as youstart feeling that descent, it's good to
get them sucking on something in someway and try to prevent them, yeah,
(16:55):
crying as much as possible. Ithink, thankfully, we've never had
any eat like colds or stuffy nosesor anything like that while we've been traveling.
But I think that that's where likethe most pain can kind of be
caused. So just be cautious aboutthat. If you're traveling with a child
who's a little bit sick. Yeah, and we've, especially on the bigger
flights, ended up a lot oftimes coming home like later in the evening,
(17:18):
so it seems like we've had Lewissleep on the end quite a bit.
Yeah. Absolutely, I feel liketoo. I don't know. I
feel like I remember when I wasyounger, it was always like needed to
like chew gum or eat something orsuck on something, you know, to
kind of help my ears. AndI feel like just the quality of like
the air, like airplanes, isjust a lot better now. I feel
(17:38):
like the pressure isn't as impactful.I mean in saying that it can be
a lot for a child and littleears and stuff like that. So I
think just supporting them to the bestof your ability and then just doing what
you need to do. I thinklike if your child is, you know,
fussy, once airplane or one seatbeltsign is off, just getting up
(17:59):
and walking up and down the aislewith them. Again, this is where
the carrier can be great. ButI think just knowing your child and what
they need and just trying to supportthem with kind of like their normal routine.
You can also look into when yourbaby's under what is it like twenty
two pounds? I think you canlook into the bulkhead I think it's like
ten kilos, like twenty two pounds. You can look into getting the bassinets.
(18:25):
I think you have to be inbulkhead seats. Yeah, yeah,
this is like a thing we totallydidn't know about. But in the bulkhead
seats, which are the seats thathave like a divider in front of them,
so like the ones typically at theyou know, front of economy right
after first class or on a biggerplane, there's probably a couple of them,
but they can actually hang little basinetsthere. So in the first six
(18:48):
months, probably probably even a littlebit longer, if you book one of
those seats and request a bassinet,you can typically get one, which would
be you know, make your lifea way easier on those flights. Yeah.
Absolutely. And so one other thingthat you can do, especially if
you were taking like a long haulflight, is that you can book a
seat for your child and bring theircar seat on and you can strap them
(19:11):
in. We haven't done this becausewe were taking shorter flights and just with
like the additional cost, we reallydidn't want to pay for a third seat
if we didn't have to. ButI think it's again like knowing your baby,
seeing how you feel. If you'relike super anxious and you know your
kid sleeps well in the car seat, then maybe it's worth it for you.
But that is something else to consideras an option, is that you
(19:32):
could book a seat for them andthen have them in the car seat.
Yeah. The other thing to bekind of so certain of there is that
when you're buying a ticket for someoneunder too, sometimes if the plane is
over sold, they can kick yourbaby out of a seat. So just
something to be aware of as well. Yeah, for sure. And then
(19:52):
I just wanted to mention that ifyou are you know, I mean maybe
if you're even a mom who's likeneeding to pump, or you are doing
formula and stuff like that, alot of securities and airports will allow you
to go through security with you know, formula or water that's designated for formula,
and they'll definitely let you go throughwith pumped breast milk. You just
(20:15):
need to have it in like afridge or freezer bag and then often they'll
just like test test it to justmake sure that it's just breast milk.
Again, I would say call yourairline and just confirm what this looks like.
But my understanding of this, andwe have always just breastfed and then
we went to solids, so thiswasn't something we needed to do. But
(20:36):
my understanding is that you do getthat as an extra bag as well for
most airlines, so they're really generouswith space when it comes for bait when
it comes to babies and little ones, which is like really amazing. Like
I know, my friend was askingme, like, oh, does his
diaper bag count as like my personalitem or my carry on and I was
like, no, it doesn't.Like call the airline of course and confirm.
But you know, my experience withCanadian airlines is been that it doesn't
(21:00):
so well Canadian, Mexican and America. Yeah, all of our yeah,
or experience with all of them hasbeen they've never questioned us on having,
you know, a carry on bagand a personal item on top of her
diaper bag. In saying that,I feel like we have opted for checking
bags as much as possible because it'sa lot to have like a stroller,
(21:25):
car seat set up and then you'vegot your like diaper bag underneath it,
and then to have like all yourluggage too because you still have to like
push and take care of the baby, and then if you're going to strap
the baby to one of you,if there's two of you, it's like
you still have like a backpack anda suitcase. So as much as possible,
we try to check our suitcases andthen we just have each have a
backpack on us and then lose stuff. Yeah. I think pre baby,
(21:49):
we were much more likely to prioritizesaving some money and maybe even you know,
just doing things to make it kindof easier to get in and out
to the airport. Now it's like, hey, we'll pay in a couple
extra bucks to get these things checkedand have the hands free. We're kind
of maximizing comfort as opposed to savingmoney at all costs. Yeah. Absolutely.
(22:11):
And then so any do you feellike there's anything else we should add
to actually flying? Yeah, Ithink just honestly, I maybe this isn't
true yet, but I think lookingback on it now, like those early
days are some of the best daysto flat with the baby because the baby's
sleeping the whole time. Baby supereaseded to carry very small not trying to
(22:33):
like use your neighbor's laptop or ripup the security cards or do all those
other things. So I feel liketaking advantage of some of those early months
to travel it might be a goodthing. And I think the thing is
there's all that fear there of ohno, I don't want my baby to
cry. What are my neighbors andaround the plane? And to think,
I think people in general are likevery accommodating. We've had by far way
(22:56):
more good experiences where like the personin the third seeds like you know,
a grandma and like wants to holdthe baby and all those types of things.
So you can have really really greatexperiences as well as you know,
obviously babies crying and having a badexperience as an option, but I'd say,
maybe don't be so afraid of flyingwith a young kid. Yeah,
for sure. I think that that'sa great reminder because I definitely felt super
(23:19):
anxious, especially flying solo with herfor the first time at like five months,
and it was like super easy,super smooth. She did great.
I think the other thing too,is like just try to prepare yourself as
much as possible, because babies reallylike feed off energy of parents, and
I think if you're really wound upin stress, then the baby's going to
(23:41):
feel that way. I think ifyou can stay as relaxed as possible,
then that's going to be super superhelpful hundred percent, all right. So
yeah, with kind of lou gettingolder, obviously, the bigger changes are
when she's studying deep food, she'sstarting to move around more, grab more
stuff, you know, eventually startingto crawl and walk. What were kind
of like the bigger changes in termsof how were you prepared to fly with
(24:03):
her? Yeah, so I thinkthe two biggest changes are needing food,
more snacks, and more activities.I think that that's the biggest thing.
Like when she was little little,like I remember she woke up on that
very first plane ride and she playedwith the button on my jean jacket for
like thirty minutes of the plane ride, Like that would not occupy a loose
(24:25):
attention for very long. These days, like, she's just in a very
different phase. So I think thoseare the biggest things that happened. I
do feel like when we when Itraveled with her at nine months, she
was not really in the like supersnacky phase. She was still mostly eating
drinking breast milk and just having likea little bit of food. So I
think I just packed her maybe likea couple pires or whatever, and made
(24:48):
sure that I had some water toand from on that flight. Versus as
they get a little bit closer tothe twelve month range, I feel like
snacks are like a lot more keyat that point, having various snacks,
spacing them out, having more activities, having more toys. You know,
they sleep sleepless, they want toplay more. They're probably going to be
(25:10):
crawling at that point. They mightbe walking, depending on your baby.
Our baby was not walking at twelvemonths, but some babies definitely could be
at that age. We still didfor like the nine month trip and even
her like eleven month and twelve monthtrip, we were still using her like
car seat stroller setup, and thatcontinued to work well for us. I
(25:33):
think the only challenge was is thatwhat was it maybe around the like when
she started sitting around six months,We started like at home playing around with
her being in the forward facing stroller, so kind of more of what you
think of as a traditional stroller.We did that a little bit, and
I think by the time we wentto Columbia, she was like pretty over
(25:56):
her like car seat strollers set uplike. She did not want to be
in the car seat when she wasgetting pushed facing backwards. So I feel
like it gets a little bit morechallenging in that regard because then you need
to figure out what you're going todo for a car seat if you're just
going to have a regular stroller.So right around twelve months, we bought
(26:17):
a travel specific stroller called we broughtthe Yo Yo by Baby's End, which
folds up super small, so itactually can go in the overhead compartment or
it can get gate checked as welland go underneath, but it folds up
super small, which is super handy. And then what we've done since then
is either rented car seats with rentalcars, or we've just made sure we
(26:41):
had car seats, like for example, when we went back to Canada,
both of our parents now have acar seat at their house, so we
have a car seat that will lasthe until she's out of a car seat.
So it gets like a little bitmore complicated at that age, but
I think between six and twelve monthsyou can still kind of roll with the
car seat stroller setup. I wouldstill say having baby carrier is super helpful.
(27:03):
Your baby might enjoy a little bitmore like being in that setup,
so you could even like check yourstroller and car seat right when you check
your luggage and just use the babycarrier through the airport, especially if you
have a baby that's busier not sleepingas much. They as soon as you
like stop, they want to becrawling or walking. That can be a
(27:25):
really great option to be hands freeand to have a little bit less stuff.
I would say everything else is thesame though in terms of like diaper
bag, I would still have extraoutfits packed. I'd still have something really
easily accessible. I think it's alittle easier once they're a bit like less
blobby and can kind of sit ontheir own and maybe move on their own
(27:45):
a bit. I feel like Ididn't feel as like uncomfortable just like leaving
her in the seat so that Icould get something from the overhead compartment,
et cetera, et cetera. Andthen I think one thing that makes things
a bit easier with having like foodand water incorporate it is that you do
have those options for takeoff and landing. So instead of just relying on breast
milk or bottles, you know,you can give them a water bottle to
(28:07):
suck on. You can give them, you know, a period to suck
on. You can give them somethingto chew on, and that can really
help their ears if they're not wantingto nurse and sleep. Yeah. Yeah,
I think the other thing side adwould be as there's gotten a bit
more mobile, We've found that beingkind of in the three person economy row
(28:27):
where it's like someone random beside us, that's like almost the most stressful part
of it, of like what ifwe need to get up a bunch of
times, And so a couple oftimes we've flown, we've had on shorter
like flights between here and Houston,here in Dallas, here in Mexico City
options on smaller planes that just havetwo seats on either side, which has
been really cool when we can getthose those fights. Also because the plane's
(28:52):
just board and dboard so much quickeras well, So it could be worth
looking at if you're like flying tocheck what plane am I flying with?
Maybe a smaller planes and option.And then I realized the other thing we
didn't mention was just kind of howthe gate check of strollers or carriers works.
Yeah, so, and especially withconnections. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely, that's a great point.So you always want to go and
(29:18):
check with the airline, but ingeneral you're going to go get your stuff
checked before they actually start the processof boarding people. So just like a
few minutes before your boarding time starts, go up to the gate agent and
just say, like, I've gota stroller and car seat that I'm going
to gate check, and then they'llscan it on to your ticket or whatever,
and then they'll actually put like theluggage tags on it, and then
(29:41):
you can push it right through untilit says like leave your stuff here,
and then it's always good to checklike when it's going to come off.
We've had some situations just depending onif you're flying like internationally or to a
different country where things go to wherethe luggage is. So this is another
huge pro for making sure you've gotsome sort of baby carrier with you,
because if you end up with likeall your bags plus a baby that's not
(30:04):
mobile on their own, which they'renot going to be likely between zero and
twelve months it can be, andeven then they're not going to be walking
so well that you want them towalk like ten minutes through an airport because
it's going to be so slow andtakes so long, so it's really good
to have that just in case yourstroller doesn't come up right away. But
in general we usually just ask likewill this come at our next destination right
(30:26):
out? Do we wait for it? We usually double check with the flight
attendants, but then you just getoff the plane and you just wait for
them to bring it up and thenyou've got your stuff. Yeah, So
like rand as you get off theplane by the ramp, it's typically where
you leave it and typically where youpick it up. It seems like in
Canada and the US they're pretty solidon this. When we've flown one time
(30:48):
into Mexico, we were waiting thereit never came, and then when we
went to Panama we weren't sure ifit was going to be left and ended
up not being put out right.Yeah, And then we also had a
time where I had a time whenI flew by myself to the US from
Mexico where it just went through withlike the luggage that's it went like all
(31:08):
the way through. So I thinkdomestically you're almost always fine, but good
to just confirm where your stuff's goingto be. International sometimes they just have
strange rules about luggage. Just dependson like the airline and the rules of
the place, so it is alwaysgood to check. Yeah, you always
want to get your stuff checked beforethey start actually doing boarding. The flight
(31:30):
attendants and boarding agents will probably bea little annoyed if you're like, oh,
yeah, I'm just bringing this on, So always good to get that
like pre checked, so you've goteverything sorted out. Yeah, and occasionally
they'll let you check other items atbike when you're first checking in as well.
Yeah, yeah, we've had itwhere we have we have like a
hiking carrier backpack for lou that's abit bigger, and we just asked like,
(31:52):
hey, is this something we cangate check and she was like,
yeah, for sure, you cangate check it, or if you don't
need it, I can just likecheck it right now for free. And
that was at the when we weredoing check in, and we were like,
oh, yeah, that's sweet,Like we've got her strollers so we
don't need this right now, Andthat was super helpful to offboard a little
bit of luggage. We'd never traveledwith that before, so we weren't actually
(32:12):
sure if we'd have to pay forit or if they'd gate check it.
So I was just good to ask. I've found our experience has been people
are very helpful and very kind withparents traveling with small children. Yeah,
what activities have you found to beparticularly good for entertaining Lou on the plane?
Yeah? So I think that,I mean, obviously it's going to
(32:34):
be different depending on your baby,but I think kind of in that six
to twelve month range and maybe evenas she got a little bigger from that,
because I feel like kind of sixto nine months, you know,
I had stuff for her, butshe was very like just interested in the
safety cards or looking out the windows, et cetera, et cetera. But
(32:55):
I think the things that have workedreally well have been like bored books,
so kind of the thicker books,and a lot of the ones that are
kind of interactive, so they havethings that she can touch or she can
play with, or flaps that shecan open. Those have always been a
big hit with Lou. I havethese, and anyone out there who follows,
like any parent team Instagram accounts,we'll see these on reels because they're
(33:21):
super popular. But they're these likesuctiony kind of like butterfly bumblebe looking things.
They suction into windows and then youcan spin them. We've traveled with
those, and Lou definitely likes those. They're like pretty good entertainment. Anything
that can kind of like scarves thatyou can pull out of a box or
a bag that they can kind ofput on their head or they can touch
(33:43):
or play with is really great.We also have these like plastic things that
she plays with where they start reallysmall and then she pulls them open.
They make a fun noise, andshe really likes those. So the thing
I've looked for has been things thatare small, things that are easily packable,
things that are kind of dynamic thatcan keep her attention. But honestly,
I feel like with Lou, shelike I kind of let her.
(34:07):
We've always let like her kind ofguide what she needs, and I feel
like there's so much to look atand stuff that she's generally like, oh,
let me like look out the window, like they're loading the bags on
and then the plane's moving, andthen she plays with the safety card for
a little bit and then plays withbarf bags. Yeah, plays with the
barf bags, like tries to climbup on the seat and touch the person's
(34:30):
head in front of us. That'swhen it gets awkward. When they start
doing things like that or kicking theseat and you're like, oh no,
or trying to grab like yeah,the person besides youse cell phone or laptop
or drink or whatever. But she'salways been pretty entertained by that stuff,
so I feel like we haven't neededlike a ton of ton of toys on
planes. And then usually she playsfor a little bit, and then she
(34:52):
usually sleeps at some point, andso yeah, and as she's gotten older,
we have given her some eye padtime during the flights, typically,
like we go through everything else andthen it's like we need her to stop
kicking the seat in front of us, so we let her watch the iPad
for a while. Yeah. Acouple of the recommendations I got, and
this would be for like more onthe older side of like twelve kind of
(35:15):
plus months, I think, orat least ten plus months is things like
Plato. Lou was definitely not readyfor that until a couple months ago because
she was constantly putting in her mouth. But again, you know your baby
best, so if your baby doesnot eat Plato like ours did, then
Plato is amazing. And then alsosome sort of like you can organize their
snacks so you can get them likea little lunch kit or even like a
(35:37):
fish tackle box, and you canset up like a bunch of variety of
snacks. You could put like berriesand goldfish, crackers or puffs or you
know, whatever you want your kidto eat, and just set it up
so they get a little bit ofeach and then you can kind of make
like activities out of their snacks,because that can be really fun. So
I feel like you can do likeboarding them kind of being entertained by that.
(36:00):
Maybe you do a snack and thenyou do a book. Maybe they
sleep a little bit, and thenthey wake up and you can kind of
do like another snack, another book, and that can pass like a good
amount of a good amount of time. Yeah, I think one thing I
wanted to ask you, what areyour thoughts on because a lot of airlines
do early boarding for families. Whatare your thoughts. Yeah, So there's
(36:22):
kind of like two schools of thoughtwith this, which one would be bored
as quick as you can get setup. The problem is, especially on
a bigger flight, bigger plane,it can be like forty five minutes from
the time you start boarding to thetime like everyone's fully bored and you're ready
to go. The other school ofthought is try to board very last,
and so we've talked to a fewpeople who do. The concern nowadays is
(36:45):
like it's sometimes hard to get carryon big space, and so what some
people we've talked to have done.One parent boards kind of as soon as
they can, puts their bait,takes the bags, deals with that.
The other parents stays with a bag, be hangs all the way back,
and then boards kind of like basicallyat the end, so that the baby
has more time to kind of roamaround. I feel like philosophically that makes
(37:08):
a ton of sense to me,but we haven't done that at all.
We basically just board as early aswe can. Some airlines do still do,
like any families traveling with kids.It seems like some airlines don't say
that out loud anymore, but stillkind of mean it. And so we
tend to just, yeah, wetend to just board with lou kind of
(37:30):
as soon as they're done boarding,like the priority groups essentially, and just
join whatever the first group of peopleis, even if we don't have that
on our ticket. And the mainreason for that is just we're traveling with
you know, extra stuff and wantto be sure we can get it up
into the overhead compartments and all that. So that's kind of what we've done.
(37:53):
I could see us trying to dothe like one parent boards earlier with
all the bags. But I feellike the only thing that sketches me out
is that once you're on the plane, they won't let you off. So
it's like if you're the parent that'sback with the kid and you have like
some sort of an emergency, it'slike the other parent is like legally not
a lot off the plane. Idon't know, it just like sketches me
(38:15):
out to a little bit to likesplit up. But I think in like
theory, it makes a lot ofsense to me, one person go get
on, get the bag sorted.Other person just let the kid burn some
energy, let them crawl around,let them run around a little bit more.
And this is definitely more relevant witha bigger kid, right like the
the six to twelve month and twelveplus months age group. But yeah,
(38:38):
I think when you're with like asmall, small baby, I would board
immediately. And I think we've onlyhad one or two flights where I felt
like we boarded pretty quick, andthen I was like, Okay, it's
been like we've gone through some activitiesalready and we haven't even started like the
actual process of getting this like going, you know, and especially if you
(38:59):
get a layer or something like that, then you can sit there forever.
Awesome. Any other tips you wantto mention, anything else coming to mind,
any words of wisdom? Yeah,I think the biggest things to just
like, don't being afraid. Don'tbe afraid to ask questions. And often,
especially if you're doing international travel,it's worth like asking questions when you're
checking in basically everywhere you're going tomake sure how things are going to work.
(39:22):
We tend to have found people beingvery like flexible and reasonable and helpful
when it comes to baby stuff.So yeah, I think just get out
there and hit the air fly around. Also, I think it's interesting too,
just the whole experience of becoming aparent and now traveling, just seeing
(39:44):
the different ways countries handle it,different ways airlines handle it. Like when
we were back in Canada, wenoticed Air Canada had a family check in,
so there's like priority checking off yourfirst class normal check in and there's
like separate check ins for families.So it's like being in first class and
so given like I only want tofly or Canada when I'm in Canada flying
with the baby now, So doinga bit of research there of like which
(40:07):
airlines are the best to fly with. I know there's probably different countries will
have ones that are better than others, so doing that research can be helpful
and not just assuming it's always goingto be the same. Yeah, for
sure. And just to clarify that, Air Canada's is families with kids under
six, so for smaller, smallerchildren. But yeah, that was so
helpful for us, because one ofthe things that's really hard, especially like
(40:29):
getting into toddler land, is liketoddlers don't want to just like sit still
and then you like let them outof their stroller, let them and then
they just want to run around,and it's like not very helpful when you're
like standing in a line waiting tocheck your bags or standing in security.
It can just be a little bitstressful. So yeah, definitely would recommend
(40:50):
that and just looking that up becauseI'm sure that there's lots of other airlines
who do things like that and accommodatefor families, and I would just echo
what you said, where I feellike lose such a fun age now.
I you know, I'm still veryexcited to travel with her because she's just
experiencing the world in this like bigger, deeper way. But I do feel
like it seems really scary to travelwith a small baby. But there's so
(41:12):
many benefits to them not being mobile, them not needing food, them not
really needing toys, them sleeping alot. Like it's it is a really
really awesome time to travel. SoI know it gets like a bad rap
out there and people get really nervousand anxious for it, But would just
love to encourage you guys to toget out there and travel with your littles
awesome, well if you're interested ina little bit older age and then kind
(41:35):
of everything else that goes into planninga trip with one and a couple month
year old. We have an episodein our Japan series about that, so
if you look back in the feed, you'll see that, and then coming
up we'll be doing more travels withLUs, so we'll be continuing to talk
about it and have additional episodes comingup as we gain more experience of traveling
(41:57):
as a family. Yeah. Absolutely, and if anyone out there has any
any additional tips or anything they wantto add to the everything that we mentioned,
feel free to reach out to usinfo at theworldwanders dot com. Otherwise,
thanks so much for listening. Untilnext time. Thanks for listening to
this episode. If you want more, make sure to check out the World
Wanders Insider available on Patreon at patreondot com. Slash the World Wanderers.
(42:17):
For show notes, head over tothe worldwanders dot com. Find us on
social media at the World Wanders Podcast. Enjoin the private Facebook community at World
Wanders, a community for travelers.You can always get in touch with us
at info at theworldwanders dot com.And if you enjoy the show, don't
forget to subscribe and leave a review. It really helps us find new listeners.
(42:38):
See you next time.
Hello and welcome to the World Wanderspodcast, a proud part of the Wanderbarn
podcast network. I'm Ryan, I'mAmanda, and we're your hosts. We're
a traveling couple and digital nomad's takingyou on our adventures as we explore locations,
destinations, and careers. Enjoy theshow. Hello, and welcome back
to the World Wanders podcast. We'revery excited that you're joining us today.
(00:26):
Today we are diving into a topicthat we've been living with for the past
almost two years, which is flyingwith babies and toddlers. So Louise visited
six countries now, some big flights, some small flights, and so we
want to dive into what it waslike during her first twelve months, and
(00:46):
we're going to kind of divide itinto two sections, six months and six
months and talk about kind of themost important things we found, the tips
that were valuable, the tips thatweren't valuable, and everything around traveling with
a baby in the first year yearof life. Yeah. Absolutely, And
so this is something that I actuallyfound was quite hard to find information about
(01:07):
or tips about online, and soI turned to my other parent friends who
I knew I had traveled with babieslike the same age as Lou when we
were first traveling with her to gettips or you know, turn to social
media to ask questions and get advice. And then I was just recently talking
with a friend who has a sonwho I think is about four months old
now and they're about to take theirfirst trip upcoming around the holiday season,
(01:30):
and she was asking me all thesequestions, and I was like, I
feel like we need to just createa resource on this. And I think
the reason that there aren't a lotof resources is because you can't just say,
like, here's tips for traveling witha child, or here's tips for
traveling with a baby, because Ifeel like it changes so much depending on
what phase your baby's in. Soeven zero to six months and six to
twelve months, as we're going totalk about, is a pretty big developmental
(01:53):
age range. But I think betweenzero and six months, like in general
or experience was that traveling with Louthrough that age range was was pretty similar.
And then saying with like the sixto twelve months, and obviously it's
just going to differ depending on whenyour child rolls and sits and starts walking
and crawling and when they start eatingand if they're still breastfeeding, et cetera,
(02:16):
et cetera. So maybe we'll startby just giving kind of an overview
of where we traveled with Lou andat what age, and then we'll dive
into some more specific tips for thisyear to six month age and then the
six to twelve month age. Yeah. So Lu took her first flight at
almost five months, which was actuallya solo trip that you took with her
(02:37):
to meet me in Montana, andthen we flew back to Mexico when she
was six months old, and thennine months old, took another trip eleven
months, kind of took her herbiggest trip at that point, which was
down to Panama and then on toColumbia. And then at fourteen months,
we did our biggest trip yet,which was to Japan. Yeah. Yeah,
(03:00):
and we have some resources with Japan. We did a lot of episodes
kind of around that trip, sowe do have an episode on preparing for
jet leg and long haul flight andall that type of stuff. It'd been
a long time at that point sincewe had done a flight like that,
so I think we had a littlebit of nerves and anxieties, and then
also we'd obviously never done that with, you know, a baby slash toddler.
(03:22):
But backing up a little bit,like like you said, Ryan,
our first flight with Lou was actuallyjust her and I and it was on
we were driving our car from Mexicoup to Canada, and we decided that
that was a really really long drivewith a small child. She was,
yeah, just about five months atthat point, and so you left Austin
(03:43):
a little earlier than us to drivefrom Austin to Bozeman solo. And then
I flew with Lou from Austin toBozeman on my own. So we kind
of took solo trips. And thiswas where I really turned to my community,
because you know, I'd never flownwith a baby before. And so
oh, yeah, let's talk aboutthis like zero to six month range and
kind of what we learned from thatexperience. Because then shortly after that,
(04:06):
within a month, we turned aroundand flew back to Mexico, which is
not a long haul flight by anymeans, but it's definitely like a full
day of travel with a six monthold, which is kind of a lot.
Yeah, and so we kind ofdrew the line around six months to
for a few reasons, so beforethat, probably not really but definitely not
(04:27):
moving on their own, most likelyto just only be breastfeeding or drinking milk
and maybe not even sitting in thoseearly stages, and then doing a lot
more sleeping as well. Yeah,for sure. So I think that there's
a lot of pros that come withthis early stage because they do sleep a
lot, so you don't really needto have activities for them. You don't
(04:48):
need to have food for them unlessyou've started them on solids early. And
so basically what you need is yourcar seat stroller setup. I don't have
a stroller that works with your carseat. I think that this is really
key for travel. We have thecity Jogger setup, and so we had
(05:10):
the car seat that she actually useduntil I think just when we got back
from Japan, like around fourteen months. It was very clear that she was
too big for it at that point. But it's basically the stroller, you
know, pops open and then thecar seat is in it, and so
that's what we traveled with for thatand it's pretty awesome because you can gate
check that, so even though it'stwo pieces, you just pop it apart
(05:30):
and you can gate check it,which means you get to take your stroller
and car seat all the way throughuntil you're right about to get on the
plane. And I feel like thisis super super helpful for you know,
checking in going through security, ifyour baby's like falling asleep waking up again,
it's just super easy to have that. So I would definitely recommend having
a setup like that. If you'renervous about gate checking, you can just
(05:53):
check in with your airline. Ithink one of the things that was really
helpful for me was just calling theairline. I think I was flying American
for that trip, and so Ijust called them and said, like,
hey, I've never flown with aninfant before. Can you just walk me
through like what I can bring,you know, what I'm allowed to have
on the plane, what I needto pay for, all that type of
stuff. And they just walk methrough everything. And airlines and our experience
(06:15):
are really gracious with children. We'venever had an airline that wouldn't, you
know, gate check our stroller,gate check our car seat. You get
a diaper bag as an extra bagso that doesn't have to count, and
then we can talk about this ina little bit. But if you are
you know pumping or doing formula.There's also additional options for that. Yeah,
I'm sure there's an airline out there, but yeah, check with your
(06:39):
airline for sure. But I thinkwe've flown a couple US ones, a
couple Latin American ones, a coupleCanadian ones, and it's always been the
case. But yes, always checkwith your airline, and especially if you're
flying a budget airline, I wouldjust confirm because I feel like budget airlines
are not always as gracious with spaceallowances. Yeah, Canada surprisingly was by
(07:00):
far the best. Why is ithelpful to have the car seat stroller set
up versus just like an almost stroller. Well, between the in the zero
and six month age, they're notbig enough to actually just be in the
normal stroller because they're not sitting independently. So you're going to either have a
car seat setup or you're going tohave like a basinet setup. I feel
(07:26):
like the bacinet setup is just alittle bit trickier with travel because then you
still need the car seat. Sohaving the car seat is really nice if
you're going to be doing any cartravel wherever you're coming from or wherever you're
going, So it's so handy tohave the car seat, you know,
pop it into the car, popit off, pop it on the stroller,
(07:46):
you know, take it into theairport, that type of thing.
But I think the biggest thing islike zero to six months babies are too
small to be in kind of yournormal stroller that you would think of got
it. And so when it comesto the on the plane flying part with
kind of a younger baby, what'skind of the important stuff there? I
(08:07):
think the main fear people have islike baby screaming the whole time. What's
kind of like the important tips youfound? Yeah, so maybe we can
back up a little bit because Ifeel like there's a lot that kind of
goes into like the pre actually gettingon the flight. I mean, if
you're doing a shorter flight and youcan coordinate it around like a nap,
(08:28):
obviously that's really helpful. It's hardto do that type of thing. So
I think just doing your best,but trying to set yourself up for success
with your child, being able tolike not be super tired, not be
super cranky, you know, beingable to like kind of get as normal
of the routine as possible. SoI think that that's kind of key and
then I would say, you know, getting to the airport nice and early
(08:50):
is really helpful. We never usedto be like super early people to the
airport, but I think now thatwe've got lou we just try to get
their extra early and then we havepriority passed through our American Express. And
I feel like if we didn't,I'd definitely be looking into this because it
gives lounge access and I feel likethat's been so helpful. I feel like
(09:13):
it's really nice to have a quietspace. Airports are so overwhelming, they're
so overstimulating, they're so noisy,and I feel like, you know,
getting on a plane where it's likebusy and noisy with a really overstimulated baby
can just be, you know,a recipe for disaster. And so I
think setting yourself up for success inthat way if you can, can be
really helpful. And I mean,the great thing about zero to six months
(09:35):
is that you don't have to worryabout packing snacks and you don't really have
to worry about packing activities. SoI think the biggest thing is just making
sure that you're kind of all packedfor anything that might happen. One of
the tips to answer your question thatI got early on is that a lot
of babies will have blowouts on airplanesor kind of as you get up into
(09:56):
the air, they might take areally big poop, and so just being
prepared for that, So I'd sayhaving a ziploc bag with a diaper,
wipes, and a change of outfitreally easily accessible. So I think the
hard thing about zero to six monthsis that like often they're not sitting independently,
or you know, they're kind ofjust a bit more a blob like,
(10:18):
and so you it's a little bitmore sketchy to just like leave them
sitting on the seat, especially ifyou're by yourself. So it's really nice
to just have things easily accessible.So I would say making like a little
like you know, obviously you haveyour diaper bag, you bring all that
stuff, but make a little bagthat you can just easily put in the
pocket in front of you that's gotwhatever you need. So if it's like
(10:39):
your airpod's cell phone book for oncebaby goes to sleep and then you know,
if your baby takes so soothing,definitely have that. And then I
would say have a diaper or twowipes and at least one change of outfit.
I would say probably bring two changesof outfit on the plane, maybe
more if you're going on like alonger trip. I just feel like there's
(11:00):
nothing worse than not having clothes foryour kids, and maybe even bring something
for you because the baby is goingto be on you. If they have
a blowt on you or pee onyou, then you're stuck in those clothes
for the whole trip. But definitelysomething for them that's easily accessible. I
would say change baby before you geton the plane, because the change tables
are super small. Like I thinkI changed lou on that first flight I
(11:24):
took. She was not even fivemonths old. I mean she's like always
been a healthy size, but Iwouldn't say she's like huge huge. She
was like hanging off of the thing. I was like, this is super
sketchy. Definitely don't want to dothis again. So I avoid at all
costs having to change around the plane. Of course, there's just times where
you do have to, but Iwould change the baby before you get on
(11:46):
the plane. And then one morething I'll add is that I think having
some sort of baby carrier can bereally helpful. And this is really great,
like you know, even for goingthrough security can be really helpful.
But as you're getting ready to goon the plane, maybe just pop the
baby into the baby carrier so thatyour hands free as you like take your
(12:07):
stroller and car seat apart. Itmakes it a lot easier, and then
you can get on the plane.You can put your stuff up in the
bin, you can put your stuffin the pocket, and then you can
sit down and like unwrap the babyor pop them out, and then you're
just seated. And I feel likethat is really helpful. I did have
a friend suggest that to me,and I didn't do that that first flight,
and I was like, oh,I could totally use another set of
(12:28):
arms basically. Yeah, And whenit came to going through security when we
had the bigger stroller, what happenedwith that. Yeah, So it kind
of depends on where you're going.The US is definitely the most intense with
strollers. They if you have astroller that's too big to go through the
security, like thing that you wouldput your laptops and stuff through the security
(12:52):
I don't know what the X raymachine. Yeah, they'll take it to
the side and they'll swab it.Depending on what airport you're flying out of
in the US, they do sometimeshave like family lines or stroller lines or
wheelchair lines, and then everyone's goingthrough with devices, so it's just set
up a little bit better. Butyou just have to watch your stuff because
(13:13):
they'll often like take your stroller,pass it through like the thing you walk
through, and then they swab itfor whatever, and you just got to
wait for it. I think dependingon the age of your baby, sometimes
you can walk through probably the agenttoo. Sometimes you can walk through with
the baby and the carrier. Ifeel like my experience has been that they've
wanted the baby like held out infront of me and so yeah, no
(13:37):
sooth, there's no stuffed animals anythinglike that. So I feel like for
me, it's just worked to likeget everything out in the tray, like
put the laptop out, put yourstuff out, then get the baby sorted,
hold the baby, push the stroller. They'll take that. You walk
through, and then it's just likehard putting your stuff back together because it's
like all your stuff comes through andyou're still waiting for your stroller and there's
(14:00):
like nothing you can do with thebaby. So that might be a good
opportunity for like maybe you have yourcarrier out see if they'll let you go
through with the baby and the carrier, and if not, you've got the
carrier to like put the baby backinto your hands free. It's just different,
Like if you're traveling with help,grandparents, etc. Makes it a
lot easier. But I found,like the two trips I've done solo,
(14:22):
it's just like a lot when you'vegot a small child, Like it's been
so much easier since lou is ableto stand, she can hold hands,
she can walk on her own.You know, it just makes it like
so much easier in a lot ofways for like security and stuff versus when
you've got a baby that literally likecan't even sit. Yeah. And then
so when it comes to being onthe plane at this stage, it seems
(14:45):
like the biggest issue is the pressurein the baby's ears and kind of when
you're doing takeoff and landing right,Yeah, absolutely. So the advice that
I was given and kind of whatwe've done that I feel like has worked
really well is like, you know, if the baby's asleep, obviously you
don't need to wake them or anything. If they're awake, just let them
do their thing, let them,you know, play around or whatever.
(15:09):
And then if you're breastfeeding, thenas you're kind of getting onto their runway
and getting ready to take off,you can latch baby onto your boob so
they start sucking. If they arenot breastfeeding, you know, have a
bottle prepared for that. So ifthey are like formula fed, make sure
you've got or just drinking out ofa bottle. Make sure you've got a
(15:30):
bottle ready for that kind of time, and try to wait so that they're
like ready and keen to eat forthat time. Or if they're really not
at a period of time where theywant to eat, then I think having
a soother or something they can suckon is really helpful. Obviously it's challenging
if your child doesn't take a soother, but I feel like that has always
(15:50):
worked for us. So the firstfew flights, and I mean even probably
up until Japan, like our goto is just like we get in,
we get settled, Lou plays alittle bit, does her thing. As
soon as we're kind of on therunway, put her on the boob,
she nurses, and I mean it'samazing because in those early days she just
(16:11):
nursed right to sleep and then slepta good chunk of the flight, so
really handy. I could pop AirPodsin, listen to a podcast, or
you know, read my book,kind of do my thing. She doesn't
just go to sleep with that typeof thing now, which we'll talk about
when we get to the second section. But I think that that's really key.
The thing I found a little bitharder is descending so going down,
because the descent is a lot longer. Like takeoff is pretty quick and you
(16:34):
hit altitude pretty quick, but goingdown is often like thirty forty five minutes.
So depending on your baby. Again, if your baby takes a soother,
you could start with a soother.If they take milk, you could
start with milk. But as youstart feeling that descent, it's good to
get them sucking on something in someway and try to prevent them, yeah,
(16:55):
crying as much as possible. Ithink, thankfully, we've never had
any eat like colds or stuffy nosesor anything like that while we've been traveling.
But I think that that's where likethe most pain can kind of be
caused. So just be cautious aboutthat. If you're traveling with a child
who's a little bit sick. Yeah, and we've, especially on the bigger
flights, ended up a lot oftimes coming home like later in the evening,
(17:18):
so it seems like we've had Lewissleep on the end quite a bit.
Yeah. Absolutely, I feel liketoo. I don't know. I
feel like I remember when I wasyounger, it was always like needed to
like chew gum or eat something orsuck on something, you know, to
kind of help my ears. AndI feel like just the quality of like
the air, like airplanes, isjust a lot better now. I feel
(17:38):
like the pressure isn't as impactful.I mean in saying that it can be
a lot for a child and littleears and stuff like that. So I
think just supporting them to the bestof your ability and then just doing what
you need to do. I thinklike if your child is, you know,
fussy, once airplane or one seatbeltsign is off, just getting up
(17:59):
and walking up and down the aislewith them. Again, this is where
the carrier can be great. ButI think just knowing your child and what
they need and just trying to supportthem with kind of like their normal routine.
You can also look into when yourbaby's under what is it like twenty
two pounds? I think you canlook into the bulkhead I think it's like
ten kilos, like twenty two pounds. You can look into getting the bassinets.
(18:25):
I think you have to be inbulkhead seats. Yeah, yeah,
this is like a thing we totallydidn't know about. But in the bulkhead
seats, which are the seats thathave like a divider in front of them,
so like the ones typically at theyou know, front of economy right
after first class or on a biggerplane, there's probably a couple of them,
but they can actually hang little basinetsthere. So in the first six
(18:48):
months, probably probably even a littlebit longer, if you book one of
those seats and request a bassinet,you can typically get one, which would
be you know, make your lifea way easier on those flights. Yeah.
Absolutely. And so one other thingthat you can do, especially if
you were taking like a long haulflight, is that you can book a
seat for your child and bring theircar seat on and you can strap them
(19:11):
in. We haven't done this becausewe were taking shorter flights and just with
like the additional cost, we reallydidn't want to pay for a third seat
if we didn't have to. ButI think it's again like knowing your baby,
seeing how you feel. If you'relike super anxious and you know your
kid sleeps well in the car seat, then maybe it's worth it for you.
But that is something else to consideras an option, is that you
(19:32):
could book a seat for them andthen have them in the car seat.
Yeah. The other thing to bekind of so certain of there is that
when you're buying a ticket for someoneunder too, sometimes if the plane is
over sold, they can kick yourbaby out of a seat. So just
something to be aware of as well. Yeah, for sure. And then
(19:52):
I just wanted to mention that ifyou are you know, I mean maybe
if you're even a mom who's likeneeding to pump, or you are doing
formula and stuff like that, alot of securities and airports will allow you
to go through security with you know, formula or water that's designated for formula,
and they'll definitely let you go throughwith pumped breast milk. You just
(20:15):
need to have it in like afridge or freezer bag and then often they'll
just like test test it to justmake sure that it's just breast milk.
Again, I would say call yourairline and just confirm what this looks like.
But my understanding of this, andwe have always just breastfed and then
we went to solids, so thiswasn't something we needed to do. But
(20:36):
my understanding is that you do getthat as an extra bag as well for
most airlines, so they're really generouswith space when it comes for bait when
it comes to babies and little ones, which is like really amazing. Like
I know, my friend was askingme, like, oh, does his
diaper bag count as like my personalitem or my carry on and I was
like, no, it doesn't.Like call the airline of course and confirm.
But you know, my experience withCanadian airlines is been that it doesn't
(21:00):
so well Canadian, Mexican and America. Yeah, all of our yeah,
or experience with all of them hasbeen they've never questioned us on having,
you know, a carry on bagand a personal item on top of her
diaper bag. In saying that,I feel like we have opted for checking
bags as much as possible because it'sa lot to have like a stroller,
(21:25):
car seat set up and then you'vegot your like diaper bag underneath it,
and then to have like all yourluggage too because you still have to like
push and take care of the baby, and then if you're going to strap
the baby to one of you,if there's two of you, it's like
you still have like a backpack anda suitcase. So as much as possible,
we try to check our suitcases andthen we just have each have a
backpack on us and then lose stuff. Yeah. I think pre baby,
(21:49):
we were much more likely to prioritizesaving some money and maybe even you know,
just doing things to make it kindof easier to get in and out
to the airport. Now it's like, hey, we'll pay in a couple
extra bucks to get these things checkedand have the hands free. We're kind
of maximizing comfort as opposed to savingmoney at all costs. Yeah. Absolutely.
(22:11):
And then so any do you feellike there's anything else we should add
to actually flying? Yeah, Ithink just honestly, I maybe this isn't
true yet, but I think lookingback on it now, like those early
days are some of the best daysto flat with the baby because the baby's
sleeping the whole time. Baby supereaseded to carry very small not trying to
(22:33):
like use your neighbor's laptop or ripup the security cards or do all those
other things. So I feel liketaking advantage of some of those early months
to travel it might be a goodthing. And I think the thing is
there's all that fear there of ohno, I don't want my baby to
cry. What are my neighbors andaround the plane? And to think,
I think people in general are likevery accommodating. We've had by far way
(22:56):
more good experiences where like the personin the third seeds like you know,
a grandma and like wants to holdthe baby and all those types of things.
So you can have really really greatexperiences as well as you know,
obviously babies crying and having a badexperience as an option, but I'd say,
maybe don't be so afraid of flyingwith a young kid. Yeah,
for sure. I think that that'sa great reminder because I definitely felt super
(23:19):
anxious, especially flying solo with herfor the first time at like five months,
and it was like super easy,super smooth. She did great.
I think the other thing too,is like just try to prepare yourself as
much as possible, because babies reallylike feed off energy of parents, and
I think if you're really wound upin stress, then the baby's going to
(23:41):
feel that way. I think ifyou can stay as relaxed as possible,
then that's going to be super superhelpful hundred percent, all right. So
yeah, with kind of lou gettingolder, obviously, the bigger changes are
when she's studying deep food, she'sstarting to move around more, grab more
stuff, you know, eventually startingto crawl and walk. What were kind
of like the bigger changes in termsof how were you prepared to fly with
(24:03):
her? Yeah, so I thinkthe two biggest changes are needing food,
more snacks, and more activities.I think that that's the biggest thing.
Like when she was little little,like I remember she woke up on that
very first plane ride and she playedwith the button on my jean jacket for
like thirty minutes of the plane ride, Like that would not occupy a loose
(24:25):
attention for very long. These days, like, she's just in a very
different phase. So I think thoseare the biggest things that happened. I
do feel like when we when Itraveled with her at nine months, she
was not really in the like supersnacky phase. She was still mostly eating
drinking breast milk and just having likea little bit of food. So I
think I just packed her maybe likea couple pires or whatever, and made
(24:48):
sure that I had some water toand from on that flight. Versus as
they get a little bit closer tothe twelve month range, I feel like
snacks are like a lot more keyat that point, having various snacks,
spacing them out, having more activities, having more toys. You know,
they sleep sleepless, they want toplay more. They're probably going to be
(25:10):
crawling at that point. They mightbe walking, depending on your baby.
Our baby was not walking at twelvemonths, but some babies definitely could be
at that age. We still didfor like the nine month trip and even
her like eleven month and twelve monthtrip, we were still using her like
car seat stroller setup, and thatcontinued to work well for us. I
(25:33):
think the only challenge was is thatwhat was it maybe around the like when
she started sitting around six months,We started like at home playing around with
her being in the forward facing stroller, so kind of more of what you
think of as a traditional stroller.We did that a little bit, and
I think by the time we wentto Columbia, she was like pretty over
(25:56):
her like car seat strollers set uplike. She did not want to be
in the car seat when she wasgetting pushed facing backwards. So I feel
like it gets a little bit morechallenging in that regard because then you need
to figure out what you're going todo for a car seat if you're just
going to have a regular stroller.So right around twelve months, we bought
(26:17):
a travel specific stroller called we broughtthe Yo Yo by Baby's End, which
folds up super small, so itactually can go in the overhead compartment or
it can get gate checked as welland go underneath, but it folds up
super small, which is super handy. And then what we've done since then
is either rented car seats with rentalcars, or we've just made sure we
(26:41):
had car seats, like for example, when we went back to Canada,
both of our parents now have acar seat at their house, so we
have a car seat that will lasthe until she's out of a car seat.
So it gets like a little bitmore complicated at that age, but
I think between six and twelve monthsyou can still kind of roll with the
car seat stroller setup. I wouldstill say having baby carrier is super helpful.
(27:03):
Your baby might enjoy a little bitmore like being in that setup,
so you could even like check yourstroller and car seat right when you check
your luggage and just use the babycarrier through the airport, especially if you
have a baby that's busier not sleepingas much. They as soon as you
like stop, they want to becrawling or walking. That can be a
(27:25):
really great option to be hands freeand to have a little bit less stuff.
I would say everything else is thesame though in terms of like diaper
bag, I would still have extraoutfits packed. I'd still have something really
easily accessible. I think it's alittle easier once they're a bit like less
blobby and can kind of sit ontheir own and maybe move on their own
(27:45):
a bit. I feel like Ididn't feel as like uncomfortable just like leaving
her in the seat so that Icould get something from the overhead compartment,
et cetera, et cetera. Andthen I think one thing that makes things
a bit easier with having like foodand water incorporate it is that you do
have those options for takeoff and landing. So instead of just relying on breast
milk or bottles, you know,you can give them a water bottle to
(28:07):
suck on. You can give them, you know, a period to suck
on. You can give them somethingto chew on, and that can really
help their ears if they're not wantingto nurse and sleep. Yeah. Yeah,
I think the other thing side adwould be as there's gotten a bit
more mobile, We've found that beingkind of in the three person economy row
(28:27):
where it's like someone random beside us, that's like almost the most stressful part
of it, of like what ifwe need to get up a bunch of
times, And so a couple oftimes we've flown, we've had on shorter
like flights between here and Houston,here in Dallas, here in Mexico City
options on smaller planes that just havetwo seats on either side, which has
been really cool when we can getthose those fights. Also because the plane's
(28:52):
just board and dboard so much quickeras well, So it could be worth
looking at if you're like flying tocheck what plane am I flying with?
Maybe a smaller planes and option.And then I realized the other thing we
didn't mention was just kind of howthe gate check of strollers or carriers works.
Yeah, so, and especially withconnections. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely, that's a great point.So you always want to go and
(29:18):
check with the airline, but ingeneral you're going to go get your stuff
checked before they actually start the processof boarding people. So just like a
few minutes before your boarding time starts, go up to the gate agent and
just say, like, I've gota stroller and car seat that I'm going
to gate check, and then they'llscan it on to your ticket or whatever,
and then they'll actually put like theluggage tags on it, and then
(29:41):
you can push it right through untilit says like leave your stuff here,
and then it's always good to checklike when it's going to come off.
We've had some situations just depending onif you're flying like internationally or to a
different country where things go to wherethe luggage is. So this is another
huge pro for making sure you've gotsome sort of baby carrier with you,
because if you end up with likeall your bags plus a baby that's not
(30:04):
mobile on their own, which they'renot going to be likely between zero and
twelve months it can be, andeven then they're not going to be walking
so well that you want them towalk like ten minutes through an airport because
it's going to be so slow andtakes so long, so it's really good
to have that just in case yourstroller doesn't come up right away. But
in general we usually just ask likewill this come at our next destination right
(30:26):
out? Do we wait for it? We usually double check with the flight
attendants, but then you just getoff the plane and you just wait for
them to bring it up and thenyou've got your stuff. Yeah, So
like rand as you get off theplane by the ramp, it's typically where
you leave it and typically where youpick it up. It seems like in
Canada and the US they're pretty solidon this. When we've flown one time
(30:48):
into Mexico, we were waiting thereit never came, and then when we
went to Panama we weren't sure ifit was going to be left and ended
up not being put out right.Yeah, And then we also had a
time where I had a time whenI flew by myself to the US from
Mexico where it just went through withlike the luggage that's it went like all
(31:08):
the way through. So I thinkdomestically you're almost always fine, but good
to just confirm where your stuff's goingto be. International sometimes they just have
strange rules about luggage. Just dependson like the airline and the rules of
the place, so it is alwaysgood to check. Yeah, you always
want to get your stuff checked beforethey start actually doing boarding. The flight
(31:30):
attendants and boarding agents will probably bea little annoyed if you're like, oh,
yeah, I'm just bringing this on, So always good to get that
like pre checked, so you've goteverything sorted out. Yeah, and occasionally
they'll let you check other items atbike when you're first checking in as well.
Yeah, yeah, we've had itwhere we have we have like a
hiking carrier backpack for lou that's abit bigger, and we just asked like,
(31:52):
hey, is this something we cangate check and she was like,
yeah, for sure, you cangate check it, or if you don't
need it, I can just likecheck it right now for free. And
that was at the when we weredoing check in, and we were like,
oh, yeah, that's sweet,Like we've got her strollers so we
don't need this right now, Andthat was super helpful to offboard a little
bit of luggage. We'd never traveledwith that before, so we weren't actually
(32:12):
sure if we'd have to pay forit or if they'd gate check it.
So I was just good to ask. I've found our experience has been people
are very helpful and very kind withparents traveling with small children. Yeah,
what activities have you found to beparticularly good for entertaining Lou on the plane?
Yeah? So I think that,I mean, obviously it's going to
(32:34):
be different depending on your baby,but I think kind of in that six
to twelve month range and maybe evenas she got a little bigger from that,
because I feel like kind of sixto nine months, you know,
I had stuff for her, butshe was very like just interested in the
safety cards or looking out the windows, et cetera, et cetera. But
(32:55):
I think the things that have workedreally well have been like bored books,
so kind of the thicker books,and a lot of the ones that are
kind of interactive, so they havethings that she can touch or she can
play with, or flaps that shecan open. Those have always been a
big hit with Lou. I havethese, and anyone out there who follows,
like any parent team Instagram accounts,we'll see these on reels because they're
(33:21):
super popular. But they're these likesuctiony kind of like butterfly bumblebe looking things.
They suction into windows and then youcan spin them. We've traveled with
those, and Lou definitely likes those. They're like pretty good entertainment. Anything
that can kind of like scarves thatyou can pull out of a box or
a bag that they can kind ofput on their head or they can touch
(33:43):
or play with is really great.We also have these like plastic things that
she plays with where they start reallysmall and then she pulls them open.
They make a fun noise, andshe really likes those. So the thing
I've looked for has been things thatare small, things that are easily packable,
things that are kind of dynamic thatcan keep her attention. But honestly,
I feel like with Lou, shelike I kind of let her.
(34:07):
We've always let like her kind ofguide what she needs, and I feel
like there's so much to look atand stuff that she's generally like, oh,
let me like look out the window, like they're loading the bags on
and then the plane's moving, andthen she plays with the safety card for
a little bit and then plays withbarf bags. Yeah, plays with the
barf bags, like tries to climbup on the seat and touch the person's
(34:30):
head in front of us. That'swhen it gets awkward. When they start
doing things like that or kicking theseat and you're like, oh no,
or trying to grab like yeah,the person besides youse cell phone or laptop
or drink or whatever. But she'salways been pretty entertained by that stuff,
so I feel like we haven't neededlike a ton of ton of toys on
planes. And then usually she playsfor a little bit, and then she
(34:52):
usually sleeps at some point, andso yeah, and as she's gotten older,
we have given her some eye padtime during the flights, typically,
like we go through everything else andthen it's like we need her to stop
kicking the seat in front of us, so we let her watch the iPad
for a while. Yeah. Acouple of the recommendations I got, and
this would be for like more onthe older side of like twelve kind of
(35:15):
plus months, I think, orat least ten plus months is things like
Plato. Lou was definitely not readyfor that until a couple months ago because
she was constantly putting in her mouth. But again, you know your baby
best, so if your baby doesnot eat Plato like ours did, then
Plato is amazing. And then alsosome sort of like you can organize their
snacks so you can get them likea little lunch kit or even like a
(35:37):
fish tackle box, and you canset up like a bunch of variety of
snacks. You could put like berriesand goldfish, crackers or puffs or you
know, whatever you want your kidto eat, and just set it up
so they get a little bit ofeach and then you can kind of make
like activities out of their snacks,because that can be really fun. So
I feel like you can do likeboarding them kind of being entertained by that.
(36:00):
Maybe you do a snack and thenyou do a book. Maybe they
sleep a little bit, and thenthey wake up and you can kind of
do like another snack, another book, and that can pass like a good
amount of a good amount of time. Yeah, I think one thing I
wanted to ask you, what areyour thoughts on because a lot of airlines
do early boarding for families. Whatare your thoughts. Yeah, So there's
(36:22):
kind of like two schools of thoughtwith this, which one would be bored
as quick as you can get setup. The problem is, especially on
a bigger flight, bigger plane,it can be like forty five minutes from
the time you start boarding to thetime like everyone's fully bored and you're ready
to go. The other school ofthought is try to board very last,
and so we've talked to a fewpeople who do. The concern nowadays is
(36:45):
like it's sometimes hard to get carryon big space, and so what some
people we've talked to have done.One parent boards kind of as soon as
they can, puts their bait,takes the bags, deals with that.
The other parents stays with a bag, be hangs all the way back,
and then boards kind of like basicallyat the end, so that the baby
has more time to kind of roamaround. I feel like philosophically that makes
(37:08):
a ton of sense to me,but we haven't done that at all.
We basically just board as early aswe can. Some airlines do still do,
like any families traveling with kids.It seems like some airlines don't say
that out loud anymore, but stillkind of mean it. And so we
tend to just, yeah, wetend to just board with lou kind of
(37:30):
as soon as they're done boarding,like the priority groups essentially, and just
join whatever the first group of peopleis, even if we don't have that
on our ticket. And the mainreason for that is just we're traveling with
you know, extra stuff and wantto be sure we can get it up
into the overhead compartments and all that. So that's kind of what we've done.
(37:53):
I could see us trying to dothe like one parent boards earlier with
all the bags. But I feellike the only thing that sketches me out
is that once you're on the plane, they won't let you off. So
it's like if you're the parent that'sback with the kid and you have like
some sort of an emergency, it'slike the other parent is like legally not
a lot off the plane. Idon't know, it just like sketches me
(38:15):
out to a little bit to likesplit up. But I think in like
theory, it makes a lot ofsense to me, one person go get
on, get the bag sorted.Other person just let the kid burn some
energy, let them crawl around,let them run around a little bit more.
And this is definitely more relevant witha bigger kid, right like the
the six to twelve month and twelveplus months age group. But yeah,
(38:38):
I think when you're with like asmall, small baby, I would board
immediately. And I think we've onlyhad one or two flights where I felt
like we boarded pretty quick, andthen I was like, Okay, it's
been like we've gone through some activitiesalready and we haven't even started like the
actual process of getting this like going, you know, and especially if you
(38:59):
get a layer or something like that, then you can sit there forever.
Awesome. Any other tips you wantto mention, anything else coming to mind,
any words of wisdom? Yeah,I think the biggest things to just
like, don't being afraid. Don'tbe afraid to ask questions. And often,
especially if you're doing international travel,it's worth like asking questions when you're
checking in basically everywhere you're going tomake sure how things are going to work.
(39:22):
We tend to have found people beingvery like flexible and reasonable and helpful
when it comes to baby stuff.So yeah, I think just get out
there and hit the air fly around. Also, I think it's interesting too,
just the whole experience of becoming aparent and now traveling, just seeing
(39:44):
the different ways countries handle it,different ways airlines handle it. Like when
we were back in Canada, wenoticed Air Canada had a family check in,
so there's like priority checking off yourfirst class normal check in and there's
like separate check ins for families.So it's like being in first class and
so given like I only want tofly or Canada when I'm in Canada flying
with the baby now, So doinga bit of research there of like which
(40:07):
airlines are the best to fly with. I know there's probably different countries will
have ones that are better than others, so doing that research can be helpful
and not just assuming it's always goingto be the same. Yeah, for
sure. And just to clarify that, Air Canada's is families with kids under
six, so for smaller, smallerchildren. But yeah, that was so
helpful for us, because one ofthe things that's really hard, especially like
(40:29):
getting into toddler land, is liketoddlers don't want to just like sit still
and then you like let them outof their stroller, let them and then
they just want to run around,and it's like not very helpful when you're
like standing in a line waiting tocheck your bags or standing in security.
It can just be a little bitstressful. So yeah, definitely would recommend
(40:50):
that and just looking that up becauseI'm sure that there's lots of other airlines
who do things like that and accommodatefor families, and I would just echo
what you said, where I feellike lose such a fun age now.
I you know, I'm still veryexcited to travel with her because she's just
experiencing the world in this like bigger, deeper way. But I do feel
like it seems really scary to travelwith a small baby. But there's so
(41:12):
many benefits to them not being mobile, them not needing food, them not
really needing toys, them sleeping alot. Like it's it is a really
really awesome time to travel. SoI know it gets like a bad rap
out there and people get really nervousand anxious for it, But would just
love to encourage you guys to toget out there and travel with your littles
awesome, well if you're interested ina little bit older age and then kind
(41:35):
of everything else that goes into planninga trip with one and a couple month
year old. We have an episodein our Japan series about that, so
if you look back in the feed, you'll see that, and then coming
up we'll be doing more travels withLUs, so we'll be continuing to talk
about it and have additional episodes comingup as we gain more experience of traveling
(41:57):
as a family. Yeah. Absolutely, and if anyone out there has any
any additional tips or anything they wantto add to the everything that we mentioned,
feel free to reach out to usinfo at theworldwanders dot com. Otherwise,
thanks so much for listening. Untilnext time. Thanks for listening to
this episode. If you want more, make sure to check out the World
Wanders Insider available on Patreon at patreondot com. Slash the World Wanderers.
(42:17):
For show notes, head over tothe worldwanders dot com. Find us on
social media at the World Wanders Podcast. Enjoin the private Facebook community at World
Wanders, a community for travelers.You can always get in touch with us
at info at theworldwanders dot com.And if you enjoy the show, don't
forget to subscribe and leave a review. It really helps us find new listeners.
(42:38):
See you next time.
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