Rob McConnell Interviews - DR. ROBERT WILLISCROFT - From Global Warming to Nuclear Power - The 'X' Zone Radio/TV Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Exzone Broadcast.

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Network, broadcasting worldwide on broadcast affiliates and savellite program providers
including CNN Broadcast Network, Serious Satellite Network, Star Media, Good
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WIKI Broadcast Network, and WPBMTV.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
For more information on the X Zone Broadcast Network, visit
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Speaker 3 (00:40):
The Xzone Radio Show with Rob McConnell is largely an
opinion talk show. All opinions, comments, or statements of fact
expressed by Rob McConnell's guests are strictly their own and
are not to be construed as those of The X
Zone Radio Show or endorsed in any manner by Rob McConnell,
Realmar McConnell, Media Company, the KS some Broadcast Network, it's

(01:01):
affiliated networks, stations, employees or advertisers.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
All Henry, Welcome to the X Zone, a place where
fact is fiction and fiction is reality. Now here's your host,
Rob McConnell.

Speaker 5 (01:43):
Good evening, one and all, and welcome to the X Zone.
My name is Rob mcconnellan For the next four hours,
I am your host, I am your guide as together
we cross the time space continuum. This that I call
the x Zone. It's a place where people dare to
believe and dare to be heard. It's a place where
where fact is fiction and fiction is reality. And the

(02:03):
X Zone comes to Monday through Friday from ten pm
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very own xone broadcast network at www dot xedbn dot net.
If you'd like to check us out on social media
sites Xzone Radio TV. Our main radio website is xzonerdio

(02:28):
tv dot com. And like I just said, for the
network that we broadcast on seven twenty four, three sixty
five with a variety of hosts a variety of different topics.
Www dot xedbn dot net. My guest this hour is
doctor Robert Williscroft. He has a retired from Mariner diver
scientific I'm sorry, scientist, businessman, adventure author. He spent twenty

(02:52):
two months underwater, a year in the Equatorial Pacific, three
years in the Arctic, and a year at the EEG
Graphic Southpool conducting atmospheric research. He has appeared on dozens
of radio talk shows and nationally on the Michael Medvid show, CNBC,
Fox News, just to name a few. Robert is the

(03:14):
author of the Amazon bestseller Operation Ivy Bells, a semi
biographical Cold War submarine espionage techno thriller, and his books
are all available on Amazon dot com. And what I'd
like to do is get right into the meet of
this interview, and doctor Robert Williscroft, thank you for joining

(03:35):
us to the x oon and welcome to the x
own nation.

Speaker 6 (03:38):
Thank you very much. It's my delight to be here.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
Tell us a little bit about yourself, sir, well.

Speaker 6 (03:46):
I was born in a small town in Montana. My
folks had escaped German Poland just before the war commenced
the Second World War. They were American missionaries twenty things
over there. They settled down in eastern Montana, where I
was born, and as soon as it was possible, they

(04:06):
went back to Europe in nineteen fifty, where I and
my younger sister grew up first in Switzerland and then
in Germany. I went to the States after about eleven
years growing up in Europe and did a little bit
of college, joined the Navy, became a submariner, and things
sort of proceeded from there.

Speaker 5 (04:26):
Wow, where did you get your love for science from.

Speaker 6 (04:32):
Really, that's really an interesting question. I although I grew
up in a family that was very religious and very
fundamentalist in perspective, my parents had the awesome insight to
give me the freedom to read what I wanted to.
I can recall my mom would tell me when I

(04:54):
was younger that before I read a book, she wanted
to look at it, and if I was old enough
to understand it, she'd let me read it, and otherwise
she'd asked me to wait a little bit. And she
never failed in that, and she never failed to let
me read. And I just became totally fascinated with the
world of science and the world of science fiction, which
kind of links to it as long as it's hard

(05:16):
science fiction. And I just went from there. I covered
the whole field.

Speaker 5 (05:21):
How many years did you spend as a sub mariner?

Speaker 6 (05:27):
Well, I spent the better part of seven years in submarines,
in and out of submarines, and twenty two months of
that time was actually spent underwater, not sequentially, but in
total time underwater. It was a period started in the

(05:47):
early nineteen sixties and went forward into the early nineteen seventies.
I suspect that most of your listeners have seen the
movie or read the book The Hunt for Red Octos.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
Oh definitely, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (06:01):
I'm sure you remember the black sonar technician, the precocious
why the wise as sonar technician Jonesy. Well, that was me,
except for skin color. I was Jonesy to a t wow,
and I got lucky and was selected for a scholarship
to the University of Washington and a commissioning program and

(06:23):
went back into submarines as a commission officer. So I
saw it from both sides and spent a really exciting
few years doing that.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
All right, doctor, please stand by you and I have
to take our first break. X O nation. Doctor Robert
willis Croft is our special guest www dot Robert williscroft
dot com. This is the X Zone. I am Rob McConnell.
This is a place where people dare to believe and
dare to be heard seven days a week, seven four

(06:53):
three sixty five on the xone Broadcast Network. Whatever you do,
don't go away.

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This is the Xzone Broadcast Network, broadcasting worldwide on broadcast
affiliates and satellite program providers, including CNN Broadcast Network, Serious
Satellite Network, Star Media, Good News Radio Network, Angel Broadcast Network.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Wiki Broadcast Network, and WPBMTV.

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For more information on the x Zone Broadcast Network, visit
us at www dot XZBM dot net.

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Speaker 5 (11:20):
And welcome back, one and all. Doctor Robert willis Croft
is our special guest. Www. Dot Robert Williscroft dot com
is his website address. And I must ask you, uh,
doctor Robert, you you you made a reference to that
that wonderful movie where Sean Conry was defecting with a
Russian nuclear sub the Hunt for Red October. You mentioned

(11:43):
that you were Jonesy, the the somewhat brash, brazen, yet
ever so faithful audio sonar person. Does am I to
understand from that that The Hunt for Ad October was

(12:05):
a real movie based on fact or are you just
putting yourself as the same kind of person as Jonesy was?

Speaker 6 (12:15):
I am putting myself in the same capacity as Jonesy.
The story was a story, it is a novel, and
those events did not happen. In fact, I have some
interesting insight into how the story was actually written. But
Tom Clancy had an old submarine chief petty officer working
with him. They had laid out on the living room

(12:39):
floor in his home one of these naval war games,
and as he was putting together the plot, they would
set up the scenario on this large grid and then
roll the dice and that would determine the direction of
the story unless it didn't fit the plot he had
in his mind, and then they'd roll the dice again.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
Oh wow, what was the I understand you also spent
three years in the Arctic. What was that like and
what were you doing there for? Three years I.

Speaker 6 (13:14):
Had transferred from the Navy into the National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration Commission CORPS, and the NOAH was in the
process of establishing a biologic and ecological baseline for the
entire Arctic region, the Bearing Sea, the coastline of Alaska

(13:34):
and up up along the Bearing Sea and into the
Arctic Ocean itself. And to do that, you've got to
put people out there. You've got to take measurements, you've
got to take samples of the wildlife in order to
determine from stomach content and parasite content exactly where they
fit into the whole food chain. And we spent three

(13:59):
years doing as well. NOAH spent probably the better part
of twelve or thirteen years doing it, but I participated
in depth for three years. And we would push our
way up into the Arctic ice back in the Bering Sea,
and fly out on helicopters, get way out in the
ice pack and take the samples and do other interesting things.

(14:23):
For example, I had my own private research project. We
went about one hundred miles up into the ice and
the helicopter landed, We blew a hole in the ice
and I took several fellas, and we dove down through
the hole underneath the ice pack and took measurements to
get some sense of how the ice grows from the bottom.

Speaker 5 (14:46):
When you take a look at what is happening to
the ecological destruction of the planet, how does that make
you feel?

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Well?

Speaker 6 (14:55):
I guess I have some reservations about whether not that's
the way to describe it.

Speaker 5 (15:01):
All right, how would you describe it?

Speaker 2 (15:03):
You've been No.

Speaker 6 (15:04):
We certainly haven't. We've had some impact on the planet,
especially on a local basis. One of the best examples
I could give you is the Los Angeles basin with
the local pollution, which was just horrific. We've managed to
correct that somewhat. The whole Arctic situation with the polar

(15:25):
bears and the Arctic ice melting and so forth, this
was an unfortunate misunderstanding that was used for political purposes.
Really shouldn't have been. The diminuition. The reduction of the
Arctic ice pack was part of something that happens on
a regular basis. It's called the Atlantic oscillation. Back in

(15:46):
about nineteen forty five, we had a similar situation where
the Arctic ice pack was reduced to the point where
ships could drive through, and it was very much like
it was three or four years ago. And then I'm
the archeized practice come back, and it's as icy as
it ever has been in human recording history. The polar

(16:09):
bear population never was at risk. In fact, several years ago,
when a careful measurement was made by researchers biological researchers
from Noah and from Canada, from your own government, it
was determined that of the thirteen specific branches of polar bears,

(16:33):
all but one had increased, not decreased, and the only
one that had decreased had decreased because human populations had
moved into their regular hunting zones and so they pulled
back and the overall population of that particular branch went
down a little bit. So it's pretty much of a myth.

(16:54):
It's been used by people who have political agendas, and
it's kind of too bad because there's real science there,
and there's real facts and real information, and it's unfortunate
that people twist them for their own uses rather than
simply helping everybody understand what's really going on.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
So it seems that if I'm understanding you, of the
entire concept of global warning is is not real. It's
not the way it really is.

Speaker 6 (17:20):
It's real in the sense that the planet goes through
periodic variations. We've learned. Let me interrupt myself to say
that when I came out of the South Pole, I
and everybody who is down there were convinced, because of
our carbon dioxide measurements and because of the models we
were using at that time, we were convinced that humans
were actively and dramatically affecting the overall global temperature. And

(17:46):
we were concerned about it, but not too long. And
this was in the early nineteen eighties. And in the
mid eighties, a couple of guys were up on the
Greenland ice sheet and they took some core is going
you know, as you go down in the ice you
go back in history, and they went back about seven
hundred and fifty thousand years, and what they found out

(18:09):
is that there really is a correlation between atmospheric carbon
dioxide and temperature, but surprisingly it's reverse for what we
thought it was. In other words, when the temperature goes up,
sometime thereafter several tens of years, two hundreds of years thereafter,
carbon dioxide goes up in the atmosphere and when the

(18:31):
temperature drops, carbon dioxide drops, and it has to do
with the sink effect of the oceans and they absorb
and give off carbon dioxide. And in the meantime, researchers
in Denmark and in Israel have come up with a
very keen understanding of what really is driving global temperature

(18:51):
and it's fascinating. Our sun is actually a variable star.
It has four major sites. And I'm going to be
a little bit imprecise here because I don't have the
numbers directly in front of me, but one of the
cycles is about eleven years, one is about ninety years,
one's about four hundred years, and one's about fifteen hundred years.

(19:16):
Those are rough numbers, but it approximates. And what happens
during those times is if the sun gets warmer and
then it gets cooler, and the whole cycle lasts whatever
those number of years are. And as you can kind
of imagine over history, over a long period of time,
these cycles tend to come together and then separate back out,
so that there are times where there's a lot of
solar activity because all of the cycles are together on

(19:38):
the high and there are other times when there is
very little solar activity because they're all on the low. Now,
what the Danish research is discovered is that cloud formation
thirty percent of it is dependent upon cosmic rays. The
more cosmic rays you have, the more cloud formation you have.

(19:59):
And if you still and think about it, the more
cloud formation you have, the less sunlight gets to the surfaces,
so the cooler the planet would be. And when there's
a lot of solar activity, the charge particles coming from
the Sun are captured by the Earth's magnetic field and
they shield the Earth from incoming cosmic rays, so you

(20:19):
don't have as much cloud formation. When you don't have
as much cloud formation, you have more insulation from the
Sun and the Earth warms up. The correlation is virtually
one hundred percent, and the scientists who've been working on
this and who've been looking at it are fully convinced
that this is the cause for the periodic warming and

(20:42):
cooling of our planet. And what's really fascinating is that
we are going into a phase right now, have been
for the last three and a half to four years
where the cycles are coming together, and we are looking
at a very real mini ice age that we should
begin to experience in the next three to four years.

(21:02):
How long it's going to last is a little bit iffy,
because measuring these cycles is not quite as precise as saying,
you know, strike free, you're out. It's a little fuzzier
than that. But it's going to last for twenty thirty fifty,
maybe even one hundred and fifty years, and then the
Earth planet will start warming up again. So by the

(21:23):
year twenty twenty, you're going to find rivers freezing in
the winter up and down the East Coast, and other
interesting phenomenon that clearly indicate that the planet is cooling down.

Speaker 5 (21:35):
So am I to understand that global warming is a farce?

Speaker 6 (21:40):
Not that it's a farce, but human caused global warming
is not true. Humans do not have the capacity for
affecting global warming.

Speaker 5 (21:50):
Not even with all these not even with all the
emissions that we put in the atmosphere.

Speaker 6 (21:56):
Well, I understand the basis of your question, and it
presumes the underlying presumption is that carbon dioxide drives global warming.
But what we found out in Greenland is it doesn't.
What drives global warming is the amount of charged particles
coming from the Sun that are captured by the Earth
magnetics magnetosphere, as I described a few moments ago.

Speaker 5 (22:20):
No disrespect, doctor, No disrespect. But why is it that
other members of the scientific community are saying the exact
opposite to what you're saying.

Speaker 6 (22:31):
It depends on what members you're talking about. There are
there's a whole group of atmospheric scientists, atmospheric physicists, and
atmospheric chemists who have been studying this problem for a
long time, and they all in fact, it's their research
that I rely upon for what I'm telling you about.

(22:54):
And in my book The Check a little agenda in
the second edition, I go into some detail on it,
and I supply the research and the papers and the
references and so forth. But the scientists you're talking about
who don't agree are not scientists who've been researching the problem.
They're scientists who are working in other areas, and they

(23:14):
are simply accepting the word of people who are politically driven.
And I can't explain to you why somebody lays his
scientific integrity on the line and proceeds to modify data
to in fact, some of them know databases have been
so dramatically altered corrupted by people who are trying to

(23:39):
prove a point that they have lost. The scientific community
has lost the ability to use several years of data
at this point because it's been so badly corrupted. And
I'm talking about the raw data, not the refined data,
and so you can't go back and change it. And
of course, the the other big factor is the almighty dollar.

(24:03):
There's a huge, huge amount of money involved in isolating
carbon dioxide in carbon banks and in so many areas
where the dollar is driving it that the science has
practically gone out the window. It's kind of sad. But
if you follow the data, and there are people right

(24:26):
down the line across the spectrum in nations across the
world who are following the data, and they all agree
at this point that humans are not driving climate change.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
The sun is all right.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Stand by doctor you and I have to take doctor
stand by you and I have to take another break.
X O nation. Doctor Robert willis Croft is our special
guest www dot Robert williscroft dot com. We'll be back
on the other side of the spreak with the news.
Don't go away.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
This is the Exzone Broadcast.

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(25:36):
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Speaker 5 (29:26):
World Explanation Doctor Robert willis Croft is our guest to

(29:49):
this hour www dot Robert Williscroft dot com. Doctor, can
you explain to me how seven hundred and fifty thousand
years ago carbon emissions were measuring the same as they
are today.

Speaker 6 (30:06):
I'm not trying to contradict you, but that's not what
I said.

Speaker 5 (30:09):
All right, place, that is okay.

Speaker 6 (30:11):
When they made the measurements, when they went down the
seven hundred fifty thousand years ago and they looked at
the bubbles that were trapped in the ice, they were
able to measure the ratios of carbon dioxide and the
other gases in the atmosphere, and by moving forward and
backward from any given point, they were able to determine
with other indicators, what the global temperature was approximately and

(30:34):
what the carbon dioxide level was proxiden.

Speaker 5 (30:36):
All right, let me, let me let me if I
understand this correct. The Earth is surrounded by our atmosphere, right, Okay.
Anything that goes into the atmosphere cannot go out into space,
It cannot fade away. So why is it so hard
to imagine that over the years, the many years that

(31:02):
the planet has been in existence, that plants that are
expelling co two factories that are expelling co, two cars
that are expelling carbon, and all the smut and all
the pollution put out by industry, jetliners, methane gas from cows,

(31:27):
that this is a contributing factor and that we are
looking at climate change.

Speaker 6 (31:36):
That's a fair question. Let me address that very briefly
by mentioning the name of two German scientists, Gerhart Garlik
and Ralph Choisner. Back in two thousand and nine, they
published a landmark paper in the International Journal of Modern Physics,

(31:57):
and the paper addressed the concept of a greenhouse. Now,
the paper is technical, it's about one hundred pages long,
with lots and lots of math. But the bottom line
is that, as often happens in life, human beings will
look at something and say, yeah, we understand that. Now

(32:19):
let's go on to something that's more complicated and more important.
And we had done this with the concept of the greenhouse.
The presumption we all had, I'm sure you have, I
had it, most people have had it is if the
way a greenhouse works, sunlight comes to the the glass,
it changes its wavelength, and the changed wavelength the infrared

(32:45):
can't get back through the glass, and so it's trapped
inside the greenhouse, and that's how a greenhouse works. This
is what everybody thought. Well, it turns out their analysis
shows that isn't how a greenhouse works. The way a
greenhouse works is that the sun comes through the glass.
You got a closed environment, It hits the ground, the

(33:09):
ground warms up. The warmed ground warms up the air
inside the greenhouse, and that's why a greenhouse gets warmer.
If you open the doors of the greenhouse, the warm
air escapes and it doesn't get warmer. And their research
basically said that our models that are operating on the

(33:34):
assumption our atmosphere, models that are operating on the assumption
that our atmosphere is a large, planetary sized greenhouse, is
simply incorrect. That isn't how the atmosphere works, and that
isn't how it warms up or cools down. It isn't
a greenhouse. They take one hundred pages of math to

(33:56):
prove this, and their paper is hard to under stand
unless you've got a degree in that. But the concept
is easy to understand, especially when you take into account.
But I explained to you about the uh the effect
of the increased charge particles from the sun and how
that affects cosmic rays and how that in turn affects

(34:17):
the amount of clouds that are that are that are formed,
and how that all comes together.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
So would you say, sir, that everything that science says
is correct?

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (34:27):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 5 (34:28):
So how do we know these two Germans actually have
the correct information in that their explanation is real and correct.

Speaker 6 (34:36):
That's a fair question. And the way the way you
check it is to check it. You you check their uh,
their experimental data. You try to duplicate what they've done,
and you see if your duplication produces the same results
that their experiments produced. It's called falsification. What you try

(34:56):
to do is to falsify their experiments. And the the
problem we have had with the with the climate models
that have been used to give us the results that
we have is that there has been so much political
pressure that the scientists who have indeed falsified them and
showed them to be incorrect are simply pushed out of

(35:19):
the arena. I can show you, if we had the
time and we had something visual instead of just words,
I could show you chart after charge of what the
current climate models predict things ought to be and what
they actually are, and you will see that there's no correlation.
They're entirely and completely different. So what we continue to

(35:42):
rely on the models because it's the correct thing to do.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
When we see pictures coming from China of this all
the pollution, they're wearing masks on their faces to help breathe.
And we know that there are serious medical problems that
the medical community are pointing directly to the the pollution.
How do we, as non scientists, how do we say, well,

(36:07):
you know, what they're telling science is saying that, you know,
greenhouse effect isn't real, that climate control or climate change
isn't really happening. And we look at the pictures of
China today compared to twenty years ago, totally different pictures.

Speaker 6 (36:23):
Let me first off say climate change is very real,
it's just humans aren't causing it. And what you're talking
about in China and back in the nineteen fifties in
Los Angeles, that's also very real. That that's a local phenomenon.
Now it may be local over several hundred square miles,
but that's a local phenomenon. I live in Denver and

(36:44):
there are times when the slog in Denver is choking.
And this comes about because of something called an inversion
layer in the atmosphere that basically keeps the junk where
it is, rather than allowing the winds to disperse it
and make it go away.

Speaker 5 (37:00):
Where does all that junk go? This is a question
I asked you a few minutes ago. Where does all
this No, sir, you didn't, Where does all this junk
go that has been expelled into the atmosphere? Since nothing
can escape the atmosphere.

Speaker 6 (37:15):
Well, it doesn't escape the atmosphere, but it's part of
a cyclical action, and it gets absorbed by plants, It
gets absorbed by the oceans, it gets converted by bacteria
in the ground, and over time it comes back into
the atmosphere as oxygen, or as carbon dioxide, or even

(37:37):
as nitrogen. The whole process of nature is a chemical
clearing house that, if we don't overload it on a
local basis, will keep our atmosphere clean and healthy and
good for us. But even at our worst, even at

(37:59):
our at the very worst that humans can put out,
what we're putting into the atmosphere can't affect the total planet.
Our planet is huge. The amount of air and the
amount of water is so large that it's kind of
like spitting in the ocean. When you talk about the
effect that humans are having on it, there are local effects,

(38:23):
but the global effects simply are exaggerated beyond all measures.

Speaker 5 (38:28):
I will agree. I will agree with you that Mother Nature,
in her infinite wisdom, developed this cleansing mechanism. However, was
Mother Nature expecting all the man made pollutants that are

(38:52):
now being spewed into the atmosphere. How did she prepare
a question?

Speaker 6 (38:56):
Yeah, I'm when we had leaded gas and it turned
out that we found lead showing up in places no
one ever expected it to. We were having an effect there,
and we had to change our behavior in order to
get that lead level back down to a level that
nature could handle without further input from us. On the

(39:19):
other hand, you may recall a book written back in
the nineteen sixties called Silent Spring, where we were talking
about DDT and the awful effect I'm saying in quotes,
the awful effect that DDT was having planet wide, and
we stopped using DDT, and as a result, malaria, which

(39:43):
we had almost completely conquered, is now a scourge across
the planet. And it turned out in retrospect that DDT
was not the big problem that the author of Silent
Spring thought it was there. We jump to conclusions and
made a mistake with lead in our environment. We didn't

(40:06):
make a mistake. We got it right, and there are
other areas where we got it right. We have taken
actions to make our environment, especially on a local and
a regional basis, more compatible.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
All right, Let's look at malaria for a second. What
causes malaria? What is the cause of malaria? If we
know DDT eradicates the possibility of malaria, what is the cause?

Speaker 6 (40:38):
Well, malaria is caused by a parasite that mosquitoes carry,
And when a mosquito carrying the parasite bites you, when
it stings you and it takes your blood, it leaves
behind the malarial microbe and it fasters in your system,

(41:02):
and at some point over a cycle it will bloom
and you'll come up with a full full fledged malaria
and then your body's immune system hopefully we'll press it down,
and then it keeps coming back and coming back, so
as modern medicine can gain access to the person and

(41:22):
completely eradicated from them.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
All right, So we're basically saying that the pea stopped.

Speaker 6 (41:27):
It was by killing mosquitoes.

Speaker 5 (41:29):
Now as here's where Here's where I'm going with us,
as industrial aization progressed and we started polluting, isn't that
when malaria started it's vast incline because the mosquitoes had
more place to thrive, they had more place to breed.

Speaker 6 (41:54):
Ugh, you know, that's it's a fair question. I think
it would take a great deal more data than either
you or high I have in front of us to
be able to argue that one way or another. But
I think it's an interesting question. It would be worthwhile investigating.
But I can't really give you. I can't give you
any response to that that would be anything more than a.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
Pure As you know, we also know that depth theory,
the Black Plague was caused by human pollution. So how
can we not say, then, doctor what we wait a
sec Wait a second, Wait a second, wait a sec here,
Hold on here. How can we say then that, if

(42:36):
if pollution has been responsible, whether on a local basis
or not, has been responsible for disease in the past,
that what we are polluting the air with today is
not leading us to a global problem. Something doesn't make sense.

(43:00):
We just can't have both sides of the coin.

Speaker 6 (43:04):
I don't disagree with your underlying premise that if you
keep putting something bad in the air or somewhere else,
water or anywhere where it has the ability to grow
on some exponential based doctor.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
I hate to do this.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Hold.

Speaker 5 (43:20):
I thought we've got to take a break. Excepation, Doctor
Robert Willis crofton. I will return on the other side
of this break. Don't go away.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
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(43:58):
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Speaker 5 (48:10):
All right, So let's just try to sum up the
part that you and I have been talking about the
greenhouse effect, climate change and what I perceive and many
other people around this world perceive as to be caused
by humans, caused by industrialization, caused by coal emissions, caused

(48:33):
by carbon emissions. Is there a way that we can
actually reverse what we have created?

Speaker 6 (48:45):
Well, the underlying presumption you're making is that we humans
and our activities are causing climate change, and that is
fundamentally untrue. However, we still have many things we can
do to to change our local and regional environments. Emissions
from coal plants, for example, can be ameliorated by using

(49:12):
mechanisms for cleaning the affluence from the coal plants. Or
we can avoid that entirely by using nuclear power plants,
which don't have any bad emissions at all. They don't
have any emissions, no.

Speaker 5 (49:26):
But they have bad effects. Look at Fukushima, for goodness sake.
Three Mile Island.

Speaker 6 (49:32):
Well, three Mile Island did not have a bad effect.
I covered that in some detail in my book The
Chicken Little Agenda. Three Mile Island worked just like it
was supposed to there was no radiation release and to
contain the building work just buying the three mile island
was caused by human error, which will probably not happen
again because they changed their protocols. Fukushima was caused, of course,

(49:56):
by nature, unexpected, a huge natural disaster which did all
kinds of nasty things, including taking care of the nuclear
power plant. And I'm not minimizing it. I'm just saying
that nothing humans could have done to have made that
any better. It was as it was, and it was
an act an active nature.

Speaker 5 (50:16):
But if you're putting a nuclear power plant beside open waters,
should this not have been taken into consideration? The hypothesis
put forward by the scientists and the engineers that what
happens if there's a tidal wave, like, wouldn't this make comments?

Speaker 6 (50:35):
Again, like I've said several times in our conversation, I
don't have a quarrel with what you just said. I
think it should have been taken into account and it
clearly wasn't, and that turned out to be a problem.
On the other hand, though, who those who look at
it from a different perspective say that that kind of

(50:56):
a tsunami is so rare that to to remove the
benefits of producing power through nuclear energy just because there
might be a tsunami sometime is not realistic. In this case,
they would have been wrong, but generally speaking across the globe,

(51:17):
they probably are right.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
What about the nuclear plant in Russia.

Speaker 6 (51:25):
Well, Chernobyl. I also discussed that in some detail in
the Checking Little Agenda, but Chernobyl was caused through direct
human error and intervention in the safety systems that were
built up there. I had the privilege of speaking directly
with three Hanford engineers who had just come back from Chernobyl.

(51:47):
Were part of the investigative team, and they sat down
in my office and briefed me on what took place.
I can take a minute and give you a sort
of the short version of what happened.

Speaker 5 (51:57):
Yeah, I'd love to hear it.

Speaker 6 (51:58):
There was a I do not know the fellow's name,
but there was an engineer in the overall system. He
was not nuclear train, but he'd come up with an
idea that it would be possible to and I have
to interrupt the second. The Chernobyl plant was a kind
of plant which is a little bit a little bit

(52:20):
like an upside down bowl with a ball on the
top of it. If something goes wrong, the ball will
roll off the bowl unless you have some type of
containment to stop it for rolling off around the world. Otherwise,
nuclear power plants are more like a bowl. It's right
side up with the ball in the bottom, and if
it rolls off the bottom, it goes back to the

(52:41):
center of the bottom. In any case, they had to
shut down the Chernobyl plant once a year to do housekeeping,
clean the rods and so forth, and during this time
they weren't producing electricity and this was a big money
loss to the committee that was running it. And this
engineer came up with as what seemed like a viable

(53:05):
way to keep part of the plant online, well part
of it was being shut down. I'm not going to
go into the details here, but if he had been
nuclear trained, that he had gone through the whole educational
process to become a nuclear engineer, he would have understood
that that couldn't work. But the people, the people back

(53:27):
in Moscow who were running it, listened to him and
they gave him a chance to make it happen. Well,
the first time he tried it, the plant just shut
down on him and it didn't work, and so he
was facing the possibility of either going to Siberia for
the rest of his life or making it work the
second time, and the committee gave him the opportunity to

(53:49):
do it a second time, and he went back and
he ordered all every single one of the four safety
systems to be taken offline so that he could keep
tryout his experiment without the plant shutting down. So there
were no safety measures at all in the system. And

(54:11):
when he started his experiment to show how this would work,
the plant did exactly what it was supposed to do
if somebody does that, which it went into a runaway meltdown,
and the ensuing disaster was a direct result of that.
He died in the process. But you might find it
interesting that despite all of the reports about the hundreds

(54:34):
of thousands of people who were hurt and all of this,
in fact only five or six people died. There were
only thirty or so people who suffered serious radiation burns,
and there were no measurable long term effects at all,
insofar as the United Nations and Nuclear Energy Agency was

(54:57):
able to measure it. I had the details of all
that again at the end of the chapter on Chernobyl
in my book to check a little agenda, but it
was blown way out of proportion. It should never ever
have happened. They should never have allowed this engineer any
wherein here a nuclear power plant.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
All right, we've got a humanist left, and I'd like
to ask ask you this question. Why isn't science just
just going gun ho with alternative energy. I don't understand
why we don't have vehicles that do not need fossil fuel.
Why there aren't more wind turbines providing us to electricity,

(55:36):
Why we're not using more tidal generators. Why science isn't
actually looking for better ways to use alternative energy than
the old, tried and true.

Speaker 6 (55:50):
Back in nineteen eighty one, I presented a paper in
Tokyo at the third World Hydrogen Energy Conference, where I
was proposing solar power satellites that would beam energy to
oceanic locations, turning seawater into oxygen and hydrogen, and then

(56:10):
shipping the hydrogen to landside terminals where it would be
piped to wherever it needed to be, replacing our electrical
grid with hydrogen pipelines. And when hydrogen burns, it turns
into water vapor. It would have been a totally pollution

(56:32):
free method for producing power as much as we needed
throughout the world, with the systems out in space, no
pollution whatsoever. So we had thought about these things. But
again the almighty dollar, or the end or the wand

(56:52):
or the pesel or whatever it is, sticks its head
into the equation and makes it very different. Called we've
all seen wind farms, and wind farms are pretty cool,
but the wind doesn't blow all the time, and you
have to have something, some way of providing the energy
when the wind isn't blowing, when the sun isn't shining,

(57:14):
And there are ways, and I think with time we'll
get there, and of course nuclear power is one of
those ways. But it has it has its problems. As
we were just discussing.

Speaker 5 (57:24):
We've got big pr problems. I'm sorry I missed that
it has a lot of you know, nuclearle your energy
has mega mega person you know, public relations problems the public.

Speaker 6 (57:41):
Nuclear Yeah, it does. You know. Down in Antarctica where
I spend a year, the Navy put in a small
submarine nuclear power plant to supply power for the mcmurtial station.
Absolutely pollution free, was run by three guys, completely safe,
no pollution and uh, the Uh. The the green organized

(58:03):
groups around the world put up such a fuss that
the Navy threw its hands in the air and said,
we don't keep this stuff. You know, we don't, We
don't need all of this. They pulled the nuclear power
plant out and they put a oil fired power plant
in its place, and now over one hundred thousand miles
square miles of pristine Antarctic wasteland are polluted from this

(58:30):
oil fire power plant. It's producing power. So it's there
are more than one side of this coin.

Speaker 5 (58:37):
Yeah, I understand this, But what was the what was
the the core reason for going and investigating in the Arctic.
What was accomplished by the study?

Speaker 6 (58:49):
Yeah, it is it is a pristine environment. It is
a place where we can ask questions and and run
experiments that we can do nowhere else on Earth. That's
the primary reason.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
It is.

Speaker 6 (59:04):
For one thing, when you get near the magnetic pole,
you don't have to worry. You're not dealing with the
magnetic flex the magnetic deal that you normally have, so
you can run experiments relating to that. You can run experiments.
I had my lab down there, was called the clean
Air Lab, and we had air that was absolutely clean.

Speaker 5 (59:25):
Hey Doc, I hate to do this, but you and
I have to say so long for now. We'll have
to have you back on in the future so that
we can finish this discussion. So thank you very much
for joining us and x oon Nation. If you'd like
more information on doctor Williscroft www dot Robert Williscroft dot com.
I'll be back on the other side of this commercial
break as we continue here in the X Zone from

(59:47):
our broadcast center in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. O'koway

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Rob McConnell Interviews - DR. ROBERT WILLISCROFT - From Global Warming to Nuclear Power

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rob McConnell Interviews - DR. ROBERT WILLISCROFT - From Global Warming to Nuclear Power