June 14, 2025 • 56 mins
Welcome back to The 'X' Zone Radio Show, broadcasting from our studios in St. Catharines, Ontario, on the 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and our affiliated partners across North America and around the world. I’m your host, Rob McConnell. Joining me now for our second hour tonight is a man who has spent decades scanning the skies and listening to the stars for signs that we’re not alone—Dr. Seth Shostak, senior astronomer at the SETI Institute. Seth is not only a leading figure in the scientific search for extraterrestrial intelligence but also a prolific speaker, writer, and host of the long-running podcast Big Picture Science. With a background in radio astronomy, Seth has become one of the most recognizable and respected voices in the field of astrobiology. His mission? To find the evidence—hard data—that intelligent life exists beyond Earth. And tonight, we’ll explore that quest with him in depth. Seth’s official website is www.sethshostak.com, and tonight, he’s here to discuss SETI, alien life, technology, and whether that signal from the stars might be closer than we think. Seth, welcome to The 'X' Zone!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
All, Henriy, Welcome to the X Zone, a place where
fact is fiction and fiction is reality. Now here's your
host Rob Kannell.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Some days I walk, some days I crawl.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Some days I can't.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Feel much at all.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
My body's amaze that I try to read.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Every step forwardward aside let me.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
But I won't let this break who eyes.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
I've learned how to fight, learn how to stand.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I may fall, stillrise.
Speaker 6 (01:21):
Through the pain, through the tears and my This road
is long, but it.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Had its tread with every sun rise I live my head.
I won't be to fight, but what I can't do stilluris.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I always will.
Speaker 7 (01:51):
To Welcome back to the xhon and everyone. We're broadcasting
from our studios in Saint Catherine's, Ontario on the Xcelle
Broadcast Network and our affiliated partners across North America and
around the world. And as you know, I'm your host.
Stob McConnell joining me now for our second hour tonight
is a man who has spent decades scanning the skies
(02:13):
and listening to the stars for signs that we are
not alone? Are we alone? Well? Doctor Seth Shostak, Senior
astronomer at the SETI Institute is my guest this hour.
Seth is not only a leading figure in the scientific
search for extraterrestrial intelligence, but also a prolific speaker, writer,
(02:35):
and the host of the long running podcast Big Picture Science.
With a background in radio astronomy, Seth has become one
of the most recognizable and respected voices in the field
of astrobiology. His mission to find the evidence, hard data
that intelligent life exists beyond Earth, and tonight we'll explore
(02:56):
that quest with him in depth. Sess official website, So
it is www dot Seth showstack dot com and that's
s A T H s H O s t a
K dot com. And tonight he's here to discuss SETI
alien life technology and whether that signal from the stars
(03:16):
might be closer than we think. Seth, Welcome back to
the X one.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
It's a pleasure, Rob indeed, Seth.
Speaker 7 (03:25):
For our listeners who may not be familiar with your work,
can you tell us how you became involved in the
search for extraterrestrial intelligence?
Speaker 8 (03:34):
Well, yeah, it's a relatively short story, which is probably
a good thing. But I got interested in astronomy as
a kid. I built a telescope at age ten. This
is not so unusual. Of course, a lot of people
who later became astronomers, you know, got interested as kids too. Sure,
but you know, so the astronomy thing is a long
(03:57):
standing interest. But I was also, thanks to the movies,
I think, interested in the possibility that we could have
some company out there, and that brought me to SETI
when I moved to California. This is northern California where
I'm speaking to you from people at the SETI Institute
heard about it. They were people I knew. They called
(04:17):
me up one day and said, do you want a job?
Speaker 7 (04:21):
Wow? You've often said that we'll find intelligent daily in
life within the next few decades. Set What makes you
so confident?
Speaker 8 (04:30):
Yeah, well, well I bet everybody a cup of coffee
on that. But you know I didn't buy them, as
I didn't offer to buy the mistake dinner, but a
cup of coffee, you know, Rob, It's just a reflection
of the fact that the search that we're doing is
to look for radio waves or maybe flashing lasers, you know,
(04:51):
some sort of signal that originates on another planet. Now,
in order to do that kind of a search, you
need some fairly high tech EQUI and the facts are
that the equipment keeps getting better and keeps getting cheaper.
There's something here in the Silicon Valley, which is where
I am called Moore's law, and it just says that
(05:12):
you know, the amount of compute power you can buy
doubles essentially every two.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
Or three years my goodness, right, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
You know, at any given price point. And so looking
at that improvement in technology, I just said, well, at
what point will the technology be so good that we
could hear, you know, a reasonable, reasonably powerful signal from
some of the nearby star systems. So that's why I
made this offer to buy anybody a couple a couple
of Starbucks that will find et And if not, by
(05:42):
the way, at least you get a cup of coffee.
Speaker 7 (05:45):
That's true, and you're going to meet Seth Trosstack in person.
Speaker 8 (05:48):
Well, that's less valuable than the coffee.
Speaker 7 (05:50):
Perhaps, Seth. Can you tell us about the mission and
the scope of Seti Institute.
Speaker 8 (05:57):
Yeah, the City Institute's a nonprofit research organization and it
was founded actually in the mid nineteen eighties. But the
primary program back then. Today we have lots of astrobiology
research programs, but back then, the number one program was
to try and find et by you know, using Big
(06:18):
Antenna's big radio telescopes to try and drop on signals.
And that still remains our most visible project, maybe not
the biggest one, but the most visible. So we're still
trying to do that.
Speaker 7 (06:31):
And what is your role personally at SETI.
Speaker 8 (06:35):
Well, well, I just got back from the Institute and
I was looking at all the mess on my desk
trying to figure out, indeed, what is my role here?
Maybe it's to clean off my desk. But my title,
official title is senior astronomer. So you know, my input
is not to the engineering, and most of this is engineering,
(06:56):
to be honest, but my input is to the astronomy.
Where's you know, if you're going to look for aliens, well,
where are the best places to look? And you know
that's pretty much an astronomy question, so that's where my
input comes. I also do a lot of writing that
kind of thing, so you know that gets the word out.
I guess.
Speaker 7 (07:17):
I guess you're not talking about the aliens at the
US Mexican border.
Speaker 8 (07:22):
Huh. Well that's a different kind. But those at least
you know you can shake hands with them, that's right.
The aliens on other planets have not offered their hands
so far.
Speaker 7 (07:34):
How do SETI scientists actually listen for alien signal? SETH?
What are the tools on technology involved?
Speaker 8 (07:41):
Well, you know, the number one tool, if you will,
the number one approach is to do what was first
on actually in nineteen sixty. It was done by a
fellow by the name of Frank Drake, a fairly famous astronomy.
Actually Frank Drake unfortunately died about two years ago, but
he used and then a couple of antennas well. He
(08:04):
was using basically one antenna now I think about it,
but he was using an antenna that was at an
observatory in West Virginia, a place I'm going to be
actually a week from now by by coincidents, And how
he pointed this antenna a couple of nearby star systems
roughly ten light years away, and he had, you know,
fairly sophisticated receivers, and he was just looking for a signal,
(08:27):
a signal that was produced by a transmitter that would
tell him, well, there's somebody on a planet in that
direction who can build a transmitter. So that was the first,
if you will, modern day search for aliens.
Speaker 7 (08:40):
So how do you differentiate a potential et signal from
natural cosmic noise or human made interference.
Speaker 8 (08:48):
Yeah, well it's not always trivial. In general, what you're
looking for is what's called a nuroband signal. So that's
a signal that's at wont spot on the dial, just
like your you know, your favorite top four radio show
whatever is at one spot on the dial of your
local of the offerings from your local radio stations. And
that's just the technical thing. But if you can find
(09:10):
a signal like that that's at you know, fourteen ninety
killer Hurts on the dial or whatever, and it's not
at any other frequency, then you say, well, I don't
know what that is, Bob, but you know it looks
like a signal produced by a transmitter. So that's what
you look for. It isn't that, you know, you look
at the signal and you see if it if they're
trying to send you I don't know the value of
(09:31):
pie in klingon or something like that. It's just that
you find a signal that's localized on the dial. That's
the simplest indicator that you found somebody with a transmitter.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
What's the closest we've ever come to actually detecting a
truly unexplained signal.
Speaker 8 (09:49):
Well, I'm not sure what close means, because either you
found it or you haven't. But we have picked up
signals in the past that, at least for a while,
we thought, maybe this is it. I remember several of
these where we pick up a signal and you know, well,
I mean this, this meets all the criterion. It's a criteria,
it's a you know, a narrowband signal, and so forth
(10:11):
and so on. And we also do a very simple test.
If you pick up a signal that you think, I
don't know, maybe this is it. What you do is
you just, you know, nod the antenna. You tilt the
antenna a little bit point away from whatever star systems
you're looking at, and see if the signal goes away,
and then you know, you nod the antenna back to
(10:32):
where it was and see if the signal comes back.
That kind of thing. Just try to be sure that
it isn't a signal being produced by I don't know,
military radar down the road.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
How would a confirmed dailien signal be verified not announced?
Speaker 8 (10:49):
Well, well, yeah, the announcement is a completely different story,
because you know that depends on whether anybody involved with
it is going to call up their local newspaper or not,
and by the way, experience suggests it they will. But
that's okay. But what you would do is if you
got a signal and it seemed to be what you're
(11:09):
looking for, what you do is you'd pick up the
phone and you'd call somebody in another country, you know,
maybe in Europe or somewhere far away, but somebody who
also has a big antenna, and you'd say, look, you know,
we're picking up a signal here and it looks like
it might be ET. I'll give you the coordinates on
the sky and the frequency. Will you see if you
(11:31):
can find it. So that's how you'd verify. You just
have somebody else, you know, completely unrelated to you, as
it were, look for the signal as well, and with
their own equipment, you know, all that sort of thing,
just to make sure you're not fooling yourself.
Speaker 7 (11:45):
Seth. Are there protocols in place in case of a
definite first contact event?
Speaker 8 (11:50):
Well, there are protocols. In fact, I believe it or not,
I was a person in charge of the subcommittee of
the International Academy of Iroonautics and astronautics that made those protocols.
I helped write them in fact. But the protocols don't
have any I mean, these protocols don't have any force
of law. It isn't the case that if you violate
(12:11):
the protocols or something, you know, somebody with the uniform
is going to show up your door. They're kind of
gentleman's agreement, although a lot of the gentlemen are actually women.
And all it is is to say, look, if you
find a signal, you know, check it out, to make
sure that it isn't just a bug in your software,
(12:33):
and if you're convinced that it's for real, then just
announce it to the world so that other people would
you know, instrumentation, can also try and check it out.
It would be like, I don't know, somebody thinks that
they found the cure for cancer. You wouldn't keep that secret,
you know, you would just publish it or you would
call people up and you know, have other people verify it.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
Seth' stne by, you and I have to take our
first break in dexhonation. I guess this hour is Seth
Trustack and his website is set the show stack dot com.
This is the excellent I'm rob oc'connell, Seth, and I
will return shortly after this break said uncle away.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Some days I walk, some days I crawl.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Some days I can't feel.
Speaker 9 (13:29):
Much at all.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
My body's amaze that I try to read.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Every step forwardward asil.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
But I won't let this break who im. I've learned
how to fight, learn how to stand.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Amy for.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, listen up.
Speaker 9 (14:06):
It's a cry in the night, Saint Catherines, man, we
gotta fight, Kayla crestings and right on in ground Zero's
lost echoes of despair? What a heavy cost? Homeless in
(14:30):
the shadows, begging for away while the city's turning blind,
letting good folks sway. Garbage on the street, smell of
rotten pain. Drug dealers want their pride. It's a damn shame.
Prostitutes in nally staring, hollow and cold, while the council's
counting dollars are city sold.
Speaker 10 (14:47):
Here where is the car?
Speaker 11 (14:50):
This goes aft out the streets, lay ignoring the cries
on the lost, Down on me, Saint Catharads, is this.
Speaker 8 (14:57):
All you sick?
Speaker 7 (15:03):
Welcome back everyone, Seth Trostak is my special guest www
dot sethsrustak dot com seth. Do you believe that micro
micro particles of alien life have already been found and
they exist within our solar system, perhaps on Mars or Europa.
Speaker 8 (15:21):
Well, it may be that there's evidence or extraterrestrial life
in our solar system. I don't know about microparticles, but
you know, maybe if could just dig around in the
dirt on Mars, you may find you know, fossils, remnants
of life that existed there a long time ago, or
maybe even life that still exists there, that kind of thing.
But I don't think you're going to find, you know,
(15:41):
evidence for aliens in our solar system unless unless, I
mean it's a possibility the aliens have decided to come
to our solar system to mine the asteroid belt. A
lot of you know, metals in the asteroid belt, and
anybody paying attention to the news these days knows that,
you know, certain metals, rare earth elements can be somewhat valuable.
Speaker 7 (16:04):
Just as the president of the Ukraine. Yeah, what kind
of intelligent daily in life are we most likely to discover?
First biological beings or a machine based intelligence?
Speaker 8 (16:17):
Well, of course, you know, I mean I sort of
hesitate to even venture a guess because it's only going
to be a guess. But I would say this. In
the movies, all the aliens are you know, they're all organic,
they're all living things, right, yea, and they're usually ugly,
but all right, that's okay. I mean most of the
things that the local zoo, I guess some people would
(16:38):
consider ugly now.
Speaker 7 (16:40):
And then there's the animals that are there too.
Speaker 8 (16:43):
Yeah, that's right, that's right. But maybe it's only that
they're different. I don't know. But if you think about, well,
what sort of critters are going to be running around
planet Earth another, you know, thousand years from now or
even a million years from now, I think that if
you manage doesn't wipe itself out, humanity will invent thinking machines.
(17:04):
I mean, we have computers. They don't really think, but
you know, maybe in a thousand years they do, or
maybe even one hundred years. And those machines can improve themselves, right,
that's the big difference. They can design their successors. And
so if that's the case here, it's probably been the
case elsewhere. And it could be that the majority of
(17:25):
the real smarts in the cosmos resides in these machines.
So maybe the Klingons have built some really smart machines
and that may be what the aliens look like, which,
of course wouldn't be terribly interesting. They would just be,
you know, a bunch of circuitry.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
Right seth. In your view, what are the chances that
alien civilizations are already aware of us?
Speaker 8 (17:48):
Well? I think the chances are not overwhelmingly good. And
the reason for that is how would you know? You
have to ask yourself, how would any aliens know that
were here? And they are only a couple of ways
they could know that. One is that if they had
really super duper telescopes, or maybe they you know, send
(18:09):
rockets around with cameras on them or something, and they
photographed the Earth. And if they photographed the Earth during
the last you know, I don't know century or something
like that, they would see highways and stuff like that,
big cities, they would see evidence of some sort of activity,
which is technologically fairly advanced. Right, So in that case
(18:30):
they would know we're here. Now, the other possibilities that
they pick up our early radio or television broadcast AM.
Radio doesn't go into space terribly easily from Earth because
of the ionistler. But you know, radar does, and television
signals do, so it's possible that if they're close enough
that if they were within sixty or seventy light years,
(18:53):
they may pick up some of our early TV broadcasts.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
Why haven't we seen concrete evidence of ets? I mean,
if the universe is so vast, or is there a
sign somewhere on the back of the Moon that says
Earth ahead turned back?
Speaker 8 (19:09):
Now, yeah, there may be, but we've made we've made
photos of the backside of the Moon and they don't
see any of those signs. But I think that the
only reason that we have not seen any evidence of
aliens so far is not because there are no aliens.
I mean, there are people who think that, but I'm
not one of them. I think that the reason is
quite simple. Our search for them has not been, you know,
(19:32):
terribly great so far. I mean, we've only looked at
a few thousand star systems very carefully. And given that
they're you know, maybe one hundred billion star systems in
our galaxy, maybe a thousand billion, the fact that we've
looked at a few hundred of them carefully, you know,
you shouldn't be surprised that you haven't foun them yet.
I mean it's like going to a south Sea island
(19:54):
something like that with a shovel and digging up a
you know, a square yard of the there on the
beach and say, well, I don't know, rob. You know,
we didn't hit any chests filled with pieces of eight,
so you know, maybe there's no gold to be found anywhere.
Well maybe not where you dug, but somewhere there might be.
Speaker 7 (20:13):
Is it possible that we're looking for the wrong type
of evidence set? Is it possible that instead of the
carbon based units like we are, that ET is a
totally different composition. Maybe they're a silicon based unit. Is
(20:35):
it possible?
Speaker 8 (20:36):
Well, in science fiction a lot of them are silicon based.
But when you say, okay, maybe ET isn't carbon based,
maybe it's silicon based. Well that's possible. Although to be honest,
carbon is much better at making complicated molecules than silicon is.
But okay, forget that. Maybe maybe our silicon based. But
(20:57):
how would that affect your efforts to find them? Right?
I mean, how are we trying to find them? We're
trying to eave drop on signals, right, And so it
really doesn't matter what their body chemistry is. If they're
building transmitters, you know, that's that's all we ask. We're
not very demanding.
Speaker 7 (21:14):
But maybe their transmitter uses a different form of broadcasting
that that is undetectable to our systems because they're not
much more events than we are.
Speaker 8 (21:28):
Well it could be, but you know, they're stuck with
the same physics that we're stuck with, true, right, and
and so you know, the details of how they build
a radio transmitter, of course will be different, just like
you know, the people that build automobiles are different. Different
companies that build automobiles some difference between them, but they
all have the same basic idea. And I think that
(21:52):
in case of transmitters, yeah, you know, they might have
a different kind of transistor or tubes or whatever the
technology is, but the physics of radio transmission doesn't change
if you go halfway across the galaxy. That's just physics.
And one of the great accomplishments of astronomy for the
(22:14):
past one hundred years two hundred years has been to
prove that the entire universe, as far as we can see,
the entire universe, is all made of the same stuff
and runs on the same physics. So you know, you
can talk about exotic physics, and they often do on TV. Yeah,
but it doesn't seem to be there.
Speaker 7 (22:34):
How does the Fermi paradox factor into your work?
Speaker 8 (22:37):
Well, for those who don't know the family paradox, and
if there are any members of the Fermi family listening,
I apologize for you know, boring you with this. But
the Fermi paradox was just based on a comment that
the Italian American physicists and Rico Fermi made decades ago
(22:57):
when he just said, sort of casually at lunch down
in New Mexico, he said, so, where is everybody now?
Faimi was a very very bright guy, and of course
the people he was having lunch with were also very
bright people, and they realized right away what he was saying.
What he was saying is this, no matter what your
technology is, if you can build a rocket, you could
(23:20):
in principle go from one place in the galaxy to another.
I mean, you could go from one star system to another.
Right now, It's it's not something we can yet do,
but you know, I mean maybe in one hundred years
or a.
Speaker 7 (23:31):
Thousand years time as time.
Speaker 8 (23:35):
Yeah, yeah, that and so He was saying, if this
is the case, you know, why haven't they showed up here?
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Excellent question? Is there an answer?
Speaker 8 (23:48):
Well, well, there are plenty of people who, you know,
cook up answers. They're even books that claim that here
are the ways to reconcile the Fermi paradox with your
own with your own life, if you will. And they said, well,
you know, maybe I'll just suggest one here. Maybe nobody
sends any messages. They don't you know, have big transmitters
(24:10):
because you know, they don't know what's out there in
the galaxy, and they've just all decided it's it's too
risky to broadcast big signals, right, I mean, you don't
worry about that, you know, you don't hesitate to broadcast.
But maybe at some point in the future we'll decide that,
you know, we're going to shut down all the powerful
transmitters on Earth because it might be dangerous. Well, I
(24:34):
mean some of them might be doing that. I can
hardly believe that all of them do that.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
Could alien civilizations be using technologies far beyond what we
can detect or even imagine?
Speaker 8 (24:51):
Can can they be using those? Is that your question?
Speaker 7 (24:53):
Yes? Couldn't? Yeah? Could the question is that could alien
civilizations be using technologies far beyond what we can even
detect or even think of, that our science hasn't evolved
to a certain point that we can actually, you know,
understand what they're using. And is it possible that their
(25:16):
findings in the scientific community are totally different than ours,
even though some basics may be in place because of
the law physics.
Speaker 8 (25:27):
Yeah, I think you should keep that last point in
mind all the time. Yeah, because you know, one question
that the astronomers, even that cling on astronomers, are going
to ask inevitably, is well, how do stars work? What
makes stars shine? And that kind of thing. And the
answer to that, no matter what language they're speaking or
how they write down their ideas in books or whatever,
(25:51):
you know, it's basically the same physics no matter where
they are. So I think that, yeah, I mean, our
technology is going to look kind of kind of primitive,
I'm sure, yeah, one hundred years from now on thousand
years from now, But the physics doesn't change, as I say,
that's that's the big lesson from astronomy, that the physics
(26:12):
is the same everywhere. And as Scotty in the Star
Trek used to say, you can't change the laws of physics.
Speaker 7 (26:20):
You and I have to take our break, Seth, so
please stand by and explanation. I guess this hour is
Seth shrost Deck. If you have watched any of the
TV shows that you know talk about the realistic side
of the search for et you've most certainly seen doctor
(26:40):
Seth shast Deck. And if you'd like to find out
more about Seth, visit his website Seth shaust deck dot com.
This is the X one. I'm Rob McConnell and Seth
and I return on the other side of this break
as the exone continues from our broadcast center and studios
in Saint Catharine's, Ontario, Canada, and extremely on your hometown
(27:01):
radio classic twelve twenty.
Speaker 9 (27:04):
Man, We Gotta Fight, Kayla Crescings and right on in
ground Zeros lost, Echoes of despair. What a heavy cost.
Homeless in the shadows, begging for away, while the city's
(27:27):
turning blind, letting good folks sway, garbage on the street,
smell of rotten pain, drug dealers want their pride. It's
a damn shame. Prostitutes and nally staring, hollow and cold,
while the council's counting dollars are city sold?
Speaker 10 (27:42):
Hey man, where is the chair?
Speaker 11 (27:44):
This goes alto the streets, lay ignoring the cries on
the lost, down on meek Saint Catalads?
Speaker 9 (27:52):
Is this all you?
Speaker 8 (27:53):
Sick?
Speaker 12 (28:17):
In the twilight hush where shadows whisper below, a silver
gleamer streaks across the sky, a glow.
Speaker 13 (28:34):
With a haunting mellowd.
Speaker 12 (28:38):
The air begins to throw an echo the wonders that.
Speaker 13 (28:46):
From beyond Ta come celestial encounter as the stars a line,
a tapestry of wonders woven through space and time.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
From avoid of darkness, of course.
Speaker 9 (29:03):
Sober bright.
Speaker 13 (29:06):
The stories unfolding in the velvet nine.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
Welcome back to your one. Doctor. Seth Shostak is my
very special guest, that's our His website is Seth Shostak
dot com. Seth, how do movies like Contact, Arrival or
Independent Stage shape public expectations about SETI.
Speaker 8 (29:27):
Well, I mean I don't know, but I think their
biggest effect is probably on young people. I mean, if
young people are the way I was when I was young,
back before the First World War. I mean, you know,
every weekend I would go to the movies. It would
see at least one or two movies every week, right,
(29:50):
and my whole, my whole mindset when it came to
the existence of aliens, or the possible existence of aliens
and what they might be like, all that was defined
by what I saw in the movies. Now, of course,
the people that are writing the scripts or movies are
not scientists, so I'm sure a lot of it is
completely wrong.
Speaker 7 (30:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (30:10):
But on the other hand, you know, it gets kids
interested in science. Certainly got me interested in science. People say,
you know, how do you ever get interested in astronomy,
And the answer is, well, movies I saw as a kid.
Speaker 7 (30:27):
Not to mention the night sky.
Speaker 8 (30:29):
Yeah, there's a nice guy, but you get to that later. Okay,
you get to the movies earlier.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
Yeah. So if you're talking about before World War One,
then I guess I'm oh my god, let's just go
to the next part of this question. Are you ever
concerned that the public interest in aliens is dominated by
conspiracy theories and science fiction.
Speaker 8 (30:54):
Well, to know, to be honest, it doesn't worry me
very much. It seems to be an obsession with some
of my colleagues. There are plenty of scientists who love
to lament the fact that the you know, science literacy
so cruddy that people, you know, believe all sorts of
crazy stuff. But on the other hand, Americans and I
(31:15):
don't mean North Americans. I want to leave the Canadians
out of this, but the Americans, the United States, I've
always believed in crazy stuff, and that's not always bad.
I mean, sometimes that's good. So it doesn't bother me
because I don't think it's anything new, And if you're
at least enticed to learn more about science I'm reading
(31:38):
a book or whatever, then then it's a good thing.
I mean. The fact that you have aliens coming down
and flattening Toronto just for the heck of it, that
may not be terribly realistic, But on the other hand,
it gets some kids interested in science.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
Why aliens would want to go to Toronto is beyond me.
But okay, I'm trying very hard to stay out of
the political situation, so please bear with me. How do
you personally deal with UFO enthusiasts, Seth who believe VAILI
in contact has already happened, you know?
Speaker 8 (32:18):
Yeah, well, I certainly meet quite a number of them.
I mean, if I go to a conference, yeah, right,
and you know, the people will come up to me
and they will, you know, say, look, I don't know
why you're being so disingenuous about this whole thing. You
know very well that the aliens have landed or crash
landed in New Mexico or something like that, and that
(32:40):
the government is covering it up. The government. When they
say government, of course they mean the United States government.
The government knows very well that aliens have been visiting
Earth and they're covering it up. I try not to
get upset because, of course I've heard this so many
times and I've never seen any good evidence for it.
In fact, when I was younger, I grew up just
(33:01):
across the Potomac River from Washington, d C. Where I
grew up, it was two miles from the Pentagon, and
everybody in my neighborhood, all the men there worked for
the US military. I mean, that was the local industry, right,
And so you know, I've had jobs with the federal government.
I think I even have a top secret clearance. Not sure,
(33:23):
but I think. And I've never been terribly impressed with
the US government's ability to keep anything secret. So if
people want to believe that, you know, the government is
keeping it all from us. The first thing I will
ask them, why do you think that, what's the motive
for that, right? Why would they want to keep it secret?
You want everybody to work on that problem if it
(33:43):
really was true, if there was some good evidence. So,
but the second thing I say is, you know, having
worked for the federal government, I've never been impressed by
their ability to keep any secrets.
Speaker 7 (33:54):
Yeah, that's always that's always confused. Being unlike, if the
President of the United States can have a sexual encounter
in the Oval Office, in the most secure building in
the world, how the name and God would they keep
the secret that the aliens are here? You know, it
makes no sense.
Speaker 8 (34:13):
Right, and particularly since you know, the evidence that the
aliens are here would not be something that would only
be visible to the occupant of the White House. I
mean there would be you know, reports all over the country,
presumably now all over the world. I mean, you know,
here in the US, we generally considered the United States
(34:35):
to be the world. But you know, I've lived in
Europe and they have their own ideas. Yes, that's right,
the aliens. If the aliens landed there, they their government
would tell them.
Speaker 7 (34:46):
Oh my God, I just had a thought. Here. Can
you imagine President Trump standing in front of the world
saying that, you know, the aliens are here thanks to him.
Speaker 8 (35:00):
Well, he's always taken credit for things, Yes, and maybe,
I mean, if he judged their presence here to be
a good thing, maybe he would do that. I mean, look,
if the aliens did land to begin with, that would
probably be on the front pages of the papers, exactly.
I think that. But you know, months or maybe even
years later, when we finally figure out how to communicate
(35:23):
with these aliens, assuming they haven't just wiped us out
for the heck of it, if we could communicate with them,
you know, you would ask him some very obvious questions, like,
you know, tell us all about the physics we don't know,
tell us how to cure cancer, tell us all this stuff,
tell us, you know, what does dark matter and that
kind of thing? All these things they could answer for
us in the same way that we might be able
(35:45):
to answer a lot of questions from Queen Victorious time,
from the people that were living back then. So you know,
I think it would be a great educational opportunity.
Speaker 7 (35:53):
I can tell you, having been to one of her
birthday parties that she is a great lady. Okay, goes
to my age. How do you how do you personally
deal with UFOs? You know, has has your view changed
over the years after speaking with experiences or abductees? How?
(36:15):
How is how is contact with chess with Seth Shastak
changed over the years? Because of all the people that
you've talked to about UFOs abductees, are you more of
a believer now or are you still in the middle
of the road.
Speaker 8 (36:33):
I'm just going to disappoint you know, half the listenership here.
But but I haven't changed my mind very much because
I've never heard anything that you know, I thought, well,
that's really hard to explain. There are so many possible
explanations for the kind of evidence that's presented that UFOs
have come to Earth. I mean, you know, people say
(36:54):
they've seen them, but that's witness testimony and witness testimony
my you know, I'm not saying that people would deliberately lie,
but they might not realize that what they're saying isn't true.
That that's often the case, and so if they you know,
if the aliens really came here, I think there would
be a lot of good photographic evidence for that. Sure,
(37:14):
it'd be really good pictures instead of crummy pictures. And
so you know, in the absence of that kind of
really compelling evidence, I don't think they're here. And if
they are here, you got to say they're really good
house guests because they don't seem to do anything bad.
Speaker 7 (37:33):
That's that's very true. That is so true. What do
you think about the US government's recent disclosures on UAP seth, Well, I've.
Speaker 8 (37:43):
You know, I don't it's not something I specialize in
looking at the uapiece, but I've certainly looked at the videos.
And you know, if if you search online with some
keyword that you know will bring you back information about
those videos, you'll find that there are a couple of
people who actually have looked at those videos and figured out,
(38:06):
to their status satisfaction what those videos show. And you know,
there are obviously some sort of craft or balloons actually,
because we send a lot of balloons up into the
higher atmosphere for you know, meteorology stuff like that, and
you know, some of those things are in fact balloons
(38:27):
for sure. And so if these people who are basically
amateurs just looking at this stuff, if they can kind
of convince themselves or anybody who reads their stuff that
what you're looking at there is not, you know, an
alien spacecraft, but in fact a high altitude balloon. Well,
who am I to say that isn't a possibility. And
(38:48):
if it's a possibility, you should certainly consider it, because
it's not quite as extreme as say, nope, those are
aliens seth.
Speaker 7 (38:56):
What role do amateur astronomers play in the search for ets?
Speaker 8 (39:02):
Well, they you know, they don't have a very large
role because how are they going to find ets? But
there have been some projects that appeal to amateurs, not
necessarily amateur astronomers, but things like SETI at Home. Some
people may remember that that was a project that was
(39:24):
run by the University of California, Berkeley, which is, you know,
like twenty miles from where I'm sitting here in the
University of California, Berkeley, and they just you know, had
this software you could download for free and you put
it on your computer. You may remember a lot of
people did it, like seven or eight million people did it,
and then they could reduce some data taken by radio
(39:45):
telescopes and they might be able to find a signal
from et now that's been stopped, but only because they
couldn't pay pay the one guy who was charged with
doing it anymore. I mean it's you know, even one
person is somewhat expensive in academia.
Speaker 7 (40:04):
I remember that very well. In fact, I had one
computer that was dedicated just for SETI at home, and
you know, I thought it was very exciting that you
were being part of something with millions of other people
trying to get that piece of the jigsaw puzzle that
would kind of finish the puzzle. It was a great
(40:26):
idea and I love being part of it. Seth, you
and I have to take our final break for this
hour and ex O Nation, Doctor Seth Shawstak and I
will return on the other side of this free short break.
This is the final segment for tonight show. Don't forget that.
Each end every Monday through Friday from ten pm EA
from until midnight, we're right here on the x O
(40:46):
Broadcast Network, Talkstar Radio Network, and the Mutual Broadcast Network.
And starting in a few weeks, we're going to be
going three hours from ten pm until one am Monday
through Friday, with the best of every Saturday and Sunday
from ten until one The X Zone is growing thanks
(41:09):
to you, the members of the Exone Nation, and thanks
to guests like doctor Seth Shawstek who has been on
the show for many years. And you know, I commend
you for your great work that you've done over the year, Seth.
And so from everyone who cannot say thank you because
they don't have the opportunity of speaking to you, I'm
going to say it for them. Thank you, Seth for
(41:30):
all you do. We'll be back on the other side
of this break as we wrap up this hour here
in the X Zone with here Australia, Rob mcconnull my
special guest, doctor Seth Shawstock Doc away.
Speaker 12 (41:52):
In the twilight, hush with shadows wispers, in.
Speaker 6 (42:20):
The stillness of the high desert sky, where the.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Stars tell stories as the eagles fly.
Speaker 10 (42:30):
There walks so warm and strong and wise, with ancient
echoes in her eyes, a healer's voice, a sacred flame,
calling all seekers by then, oh wild.
Speaker 6 (42:54):
Child of the dawn, keeper of truth, that we never gone.
Speaker 9 (43:01):
You walk.
Speaker 6 (43:03):
Where few have, trine with the earth, the voice of God,
on the wws of change that never.
Speaker 7 (43:23):
From tribals, Welcome back, every one. Doctor Seth Shostak is
our special guest, and his website is www dot Seth
Shostak dot com. As we were saying off air, Seth,
I want to thank you so much for coming on
the show. And man, you know, people need to understand
that there's three sides to every story, his side, her side,
(43:45):
and the truth. And that's what we try to do
here on the X Zone each and every night is
bring some balance.
Speaker 6 (43:52):
You know.
Speaker 7 (43:53):
Yes, we have people who are hardened believers in the
fact that et is here. They're buried in underground bunkers
at Area fifty one. We have the people who say, Nah,
it's impossible, it's a bunch of bunk And then you
have people like doctor Seth Shastak, who looks at both
sides and using science and physics, is able to try
(44:18):
and help us make sense of some of the most
intriguing and important questions that we've ever asked on this
planet concerning those who may be here or even watch.
I guess, Seth, what has been the most exciting moment
in your career so far?
Speaker 8 (44:37):
Well, I mean, I'm not sure. Well, actually, something does
come to mind. There was a situation back in nineteen
ninety I think it was nineteen ninety six when we
picked up a signal that you look like the real
(44:57):
do look like This was the thing we were looking for,
or had all the characteristics of a signal being made
by a transmitter. And for a while, I mean, we
were getting more and more excited because we were doing
all the usual tests you made to make sure that
it isn't you know, just bugging the software or a
(45:17):
glitch in the hardware or even you know, University of
Toronto undergraduate prank or something like that. Right, So we
were doing all these tests and it looked pretty good,
but it turned out that it wasn't et In the end,
it took up about a day or almost two days
to figure it out, and in the end it turned
(45:40):
out that it was you know, it was just just
a glitch in the system. So, you know, kind of
a technical problem, sure, but but but it was exciting.
For a while, I thought maybe this is it, you know,
and I couldn't sleep actually it was, so you know,
wound up about it.
Speaker 7 (45:59):
One day you will find it, my friend. I have
the way that you work with, the diligence, professionalism you
and the team that you work with. I have high
expectations that one day we'll hear on CNN, we'll see
your face and I'll say to my wife, I told
(46:20):
you he'd find it.
Speaker 8 (46:23):
Well, in that case, you have to buy me the
cup of coffee.
Speaker 7 (46:26):
It'll be my pleasure, Seth. If we do find intelligent life,
how do you think humanity will respond spiritually, socially, and politically.
Speaker 8 (46:38):
That's really a good question, wrong because there are people
who think, well, the public couldn't handle the news, and consequently,
you know, we may already have found a signal and
we're keeping it quiet, or the aliens may already be
here on Earth and we're keeping it quiet. Whenever I
ask people who believe it, I say, well, why are
we keeping it quiet? And they say, well, it's because
the public couldn't handle the news that they would go
(47:00):
completely nuts. Well, I don't think so. I mean, think
about your neighbors, your relatives, whatever. And suppose they picked
up the papers tomorrow, if they know what a paper is,
and they read, well, scientists have found a signal coming
from some star system, you know, thirty light years away
or whatever. Do you think that they would start writing
in the streets. Would they go completely Tell them, No, no,
(47:23):
they wouldn't. They would just say, well that's really interesting, yeah,
you know, and maybe they tune in the news, and
so I think that that's the way it would be handled.
I don't think that there's any worry that if we
find et that suddenly society is going to fall apart.
Keep in mind, the aliens are going to be far away,
I mean exactly, you know, just statistically, so they're not
(47:43):
going to interfere with you, you know, your tennis date
on the weekend.
Speaker 7 (47:48):
I've often wondered what ethical considerations are involved in sending
messages out into space. Is it possible that the messages
were sending out could be misinterpular as an act of
war or a warning to stay away from Earth or
something that would provoke the wrong message.
Speaker 8 (48:10):
Well, I suppose that's possible. Keep in mind, the aliens
are probably not very well schooled in English or whatever,
you know. I mean, on TV they always are, but
in reality they might not know that. I don't actually
worry about that. I mean, they may look at Earth,
you know, with their equipment, and what they would find
or signals coming off the Earth. Certainly you know, high
(48:33):
powered radar and television and stuff like that, but those
signals don't tell them much about us. Actually, well, television does.
I suppose they could watch TV. They could figure out
how to decode a television's signal and turn it into
you know, a moving picture if you will. I'm sure
they could do that, and you know, then they would see, well,
(48:54):
what you see on your television at night, maybe without
the sound. But I don't think that they would say, well,
all right, you know, these guys are obviously kind of worthless.
It's time to launch the interstellar rockets and let's go
wipe them out. I mean, that doesn't make a whole
lot of sense to me. So maybe some of them
know about us, but you know, they've not sent any
(49:17):
follow up messages about send more of this, or send
more of that, or can you restrict a number of
commercials or whatever?
Speaker 7 (49:24):
Well, that would be nice. Can you just imagine this,
in the middle of nowhere, there are two people in
a field. All of a sudden they see this light
in the sky and like it's bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger,
and lord, what do you know, there's a real flying saucer.
(49:46):
The flying saucer a lands now here is a craft
that traversed the universe. Maybe the time space continuum. Who
knows the door opens, comes the ladder, and down come
these little three and a half foot eties, kind of
cute looking things like the Smurfs. Okay, and they walk
(50:10):
up to the two people who watch the landing and
they say, take me to your leader. The way President
Trump treated President Zelensky, to me would be a major
concern that, you know, we'd have the first intergalactic event going.
(50:33):
Nobody has ever asked President Trump about what he believes
about the UFO community or if UFOs are here have
you know, I would have expected something after the last
government what was it called committee, that he would have
(50:54):
said something by now or somebody one of the reporters
would have asked him that it's but I have heard
nothing from the President's office that has anything to do
with UFOs, UAPs, what NASA is doing when it comes
to the exploration possibility of ets. What's your take on that.
Speaker 8 (51:20):
Seth, Well, I'm not surprised that the President hasn't said much.
I mean, even aside from what you may think of Trump,
and no other president has really said very much either.
I mean, it's just not something that's, if you will,
on their radar, because you know, they've got other things
to worry about, so that doesn't bother me too much.
(51:41):
I don't think that it really matters either, because if
we find evidence for aliens, either by finding it in
space right or picking up a signal, or even if
they decide to land on Earth and stroll around looking
for some good fast food. I mean, no matter how
we do it, it won't be just one person that notices, right,
(52:04):
It's going to be lots of people. That will be
people that are whipping out their phones and making photos
or videos and so for and so on. So it's
going to be a discovery that many people will be
involved in. So I don't worry too much about, you know,
the behavior one person, even if that one person is
the president. It's science. If it's science, you know, there's
(52:26):
no keeping it secret. A lot of people are going
to know.
Speaker 7 (52:28):
There's an idea for an entrepreneur out there who has money,
who wants to get into the restaurant business, fast food
mcaliens there you have all these little Oh, come on, seth,
that's not that bad. Yeah, you know, there's so much
that we don't know, and I think the time is
coming when we we should be more serious about the
(52:50):
exploration and the possibility of extraterrestrial life. And what advice
would you give, Seth to a young scientist or or
enthusiast who wants to work in astrobiology or work with
you in SETI.
Speaker 8 (53:05):
Yeah, well, I occasionally get asked that people will send me,
you know, mostly you know, young people, but they'll send
me an email and they say, look, you know, i'd
like to get involved with this. How do I do it? Well,
there's no secret, sauce. You just go to school. The
longer you go to school, the probably the better. All
the people that I know that work in this field
all have advanced degrees, right, they're all PhDs or whatever.
(53:29):
So it helps to stay in school and you know,
keep studying. But that's that's the only trick. There's no
other trick, right, You just stay in school. If you
have a degree, then you'll know what to do because
the people that are at the school you're at will
be telling you. Look, you know, here's the kind of
work that's been done out there. If any of it
(53:50):
interests you, why don't you write somebody who's working in
that field, Seth.
Speaker 7 (53:54):
The time has come, my friend, when you and I
must say so long now. I appreciate your time. I
appreciate the fact that you came on here and you
gave our listeners some real answers, and all I can
say is thank you so much. In the exlonation, please
visits Seth's website at www dot sethshustdeck dot com. Seth,
(54:18):
until the next time we meet, take care of yourself,
my friend, and as always, the very best to you
and yours.
Speaker 8 (54:24):
The same to you, Rob. I really really enjoyed it
and really appreciated the fact that you had me on
the show.
Speaker 7 (54:29):
Take care, my good friend and x oonation. I'll be
back tomorrow night at ten o'clock. Is once again we
crossed the time space continuum to this place that I
call the X Zone. So until tomorrow night, I always
remember to keep your eyes to the sky and your
heart till the light. Good night, everyone, and you're listening
(54:49):
to us on the X one Broadcast Network, Talkstar Radio Network,
Mutual Broadcast Network and streaming on Classic twelve twenty dot CA.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
Someday ease, I walk, some days, I crawl. Some days
I can't feel much at all. My body's amaze that
I try to read.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
Every step forwardward, a silent.
Speaker 4 (55:24):
But I won't let this break who I am. I've
learned how to fight, learn how to stand. I may fall,
still rise through the pain, through.
Speaker 6 (55:46):
The tears in min This road is long.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
But it's mind a tread with every sun rise. Alizna
All, Henriy, Welcome to the X Zone, a place where
fact is fiction and fiction is reality. Now here's your
host Rob Kannell.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Some days I walk, some days I crawl.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Some days I can't.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Feel much at all.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
My body's amaze that I try to read.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Every step forwardward aside let me.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
But I won't let this break who eyes.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
I've learned how to fight, learn how to stand.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I may fall, stillrise.
Speaker 6 (01:21):
Through the pain, through the tears and my This road
is long, but it.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Had its tread with every sun rise I live my head.
I won't be to fight, but what I can't do stilluris.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I always will.
Speaker 7 (01:51):
To Welcome back to the xhon and everyone. We're broadcasting
from our studios in Saint Catherine's, Ontario on the Xcelle
Broadcast Network and our affiliated partners across North America and
around the world. And as you know, I'm your host.
Stob McConnell joining me now for our second hour tonight
is a man who has spent decades scanning the skies
(02:13):
and listening to the stars for signs that we are
not alone? Are we alone? Well? Doctor Seth Shostak, Senior
astronomer at the SETI Institute is my guest this hour.
Seth is not only a leading figure in the scientific
search for extraterrestrial intelligence, but also a prolific speaker, writer,
(02:35):
and the host of the long running podcast Big Picture Science.
With a background in radio astronomy, Seth has become one
of the most recognizable and respected voices in the field
of astrobiology. His mission to find the evidence, hard data
that intelligent life exists beyond Earth, and tonight we'll explore
(02:56):
that quest with him in depth. Sess official website, So
it is www dot Seth showstack dot com and that's
s A T H s H O s t a
K dot com. And tonight he's here to discuss SETI
alien life technology and whether that signal from the stars
(03:16):
might be closer than we think. Seth, Welcome back to
the X one.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
It's a pleasure, Rob indeed, Seth.
Speaker 7 (03:25):
For our listeners who may not be familiar with your work,
can you tell us how you became involved in the
search for extraterrestrial intelligence?
Speaker 8 (03:34):
Well, yeah, it's a relatively short story, which is probably
a good thing. But I got interested in astronomy as
a kid. I built a telescope at age ten. This
is not so unusual. Of course, a lot of people
who later became astronomers, you know, got interested as kids too. Sure,
but you know, so the astronomy thing is a long
(03:57):
standing interest. But I was also, thanks to the movies,
I think, interested in the possibility that we could have
some company out there, and that brought me to SETI
when I moved to California. This is northern California where
I'm speaking to you from people at the SETI Institute
heard about it. They were people I knew. They called
(04:17):
me up one day and said, do you want a job?
Speaker 7 (04:21):
Wow? You've often said that we'll find intelligent daily in
life within the next few decades. Set What makes you
so confident?
Speaker 8 (04:30):
Yeah, well, well I bet everybody a cup of coffee
on that. But you know I didn't buy them, as
I didn't offer to buy the mistake dinner, but a
cup of coffee, you know, Rob, It's just a reflection
of the fact that the search that we're doing is
to look for radio waves or maybe flashing lasers, you know,
(04:51):
some sort of signal that originates on another planet. Now,
in order to do that kind of a search, you
need some fairly high tech EQUI and the facts are
that the equipment keeps getting better and keeps getting cheaper.
There's something here in the Silicon Valley, which is where
I am called Moore's law, and it just says that
(05:12):
you know, the amount of compute power you can buy
doubles essentially every two.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
Or three years my goodness, right, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
You know, at any given price point. And so looking
at that improvement in technology, I just said, well, at
what point will the technology be so good that we
could hear, you know, a reasonable, reasonably powerful signal from
some of the nearby star systems. So that's why I
made this offer to buy anybody a couple a couple
of Starbucks that will find et And if not, by
(05:42):
the way, at least you get a cup of coffee.
Speaker 7 (05:45):
That's true, and you're going to meet Seth Trosstack in person.
Speaker 8 (05:48):
Well, that's less valuable than the coffee.
Speaker 7 (05:50):
Perhaps, Seth. Can you tell us about the mission and
the scope of Seti Institute.
Speaker 8 (05:57):
Yeah, the City Institute's a nonprofit research organization and it
was founded actually in the mid nineteen eighties. But the
primary program back then. Today we have lots of astrobiology
research programs, but back then, the number one program was
to try and find et by you know, using Big
(06:18):
Antenna's big radio telescopes to try and drop on signals.
And that still remains our most visible project, maybe not
the biggest one, but the most visible. So we're still
trying to do that.
Speaker 7 (06:31):
And what is your role personally at SETI.
Speaker 8 (06:35):
Well, well, I just got back from the Institute and
I was looking at all the mess on my desk
trying to figure out, indeed, what is my role here?
Maybe it's to clean off my desk. But my title,
official title is senior astronomer. So you know, my input
is not to the engineering, and most of this is engineering,
(06:56):
to be honest, but my input is to the astronomy.
Where's you know, if you're going to look for aliens, well,
where are the best places to look? And you know
that's pretty much an astronomy question, so that's where my
input comes. I also do a lot of writing that
kind of thing, so you know that gets the word out.
I guess.
Speaker 7 (07:17):
I guess you're not talking about the aliens at the
US Mexican border.
Speaker 8 (07:22):
Huh. Well that's a different kind. But those at least
you know you can shake hands with them, that's right.
The aliens on other planets have not offered their hands
so far.
Speaker 7 (07:34):
How do SETI scientists actually listen for alien signal? SETH?
What are the tools on technology involved?
Speaker 8 (07:41):
Well, you know, the number one tool, if you will,
the number one approach is to do what was first
on actually in nineteen sixty. It was done by a
fellow by the name of Frank Drake, a fairly famous astronomy.
Actually Frank Drake unfortunately died about two years ago, but
he used and then a couple of antennas well. He
(08:04):
was using basically one antenna now I think about it,
but he was using an antenna that was at an
observatory in West Virginia, a place I'm going to be
actually a week from now by by coincidents, And how
he pointed this antenna a couple of nearby star systems
roughly ten light years away, and he had, you know,
fairly sophisticated receivers, and he was just looking for a signal,
(08:27):
a signal that was produced by a transmitter that would
tell him, well, there's somebody on a planet in that
direction who can build a transmitter. So that was the first,
if you will, modern day search for aliens.
Speaker 7 (08:40):
So how do you differentiate a potential et signal from
natural cosmic noise or human made interference.
Speaker 8 (08:48):
Yeah, well it's not always trivial. In general, what you're
looking for is what's called a nuroband signal. So that's
a signal that's at wont spot on the dial, just
like your you know, your favorite top four radio show
whatever is at one spot on the dial of your
local of the offerings from your local radio stations. And
that's just the technical thing. But if you can find
(09:10):
a signal like that that's at you know, fourteen ninety
killer Hurts on the dial or whatever, and it's not
at any other frequency, then you say, well, I don't
know what that is, Bob, but you know it looks
like a signal produced by a transmitter. So that's what
you look for. It isn't that, you know, you look
at the signal and you see if it if they're
trying to send you I don't know the value of
(09:31):
pie in klingon or something like that. It's just that
you find a signal that's localized on the dial. That's
the simplest indicator that you found somebody with a transmitter.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
What's the closest we've ever come to actually detecting a
truly unexplained signal.
Speaker 8 (09:49):
Well, I'm not sure what close means, because either you
found it or you haven't. But we have picked up
signals in the past that, at least for a while,
we thought, maybe this is it. I remember several of
these where we pick up a signal and you know, well,
I mean this, this meets all the criterion. It's a criteria,
it's a you know, a narrowband signal, and so forth
(10:11):
and so on. And we also do a very simple test.
If you pick up a signal that you think, I
don't know, maybe this is it. What you do is
you just, you know, nod the antenna. You tilt the
antenna a little bit point away from whatever star systems
you're looking at, and see if the signal goes away,
and then you know, you nod the antenna back to
(10:32):
where it was and see if the signal comes back.
That kind of thing. Just try to be sure that
it isn't a signal being produced by I don't know,
military radar down the road.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
How would a confirmed dailien signal be verified not announced?
Speaker 8 (10:49):
Well, well, yeah, the announcement is a completely different story,
because you know that depends on whether anybody involved with
it is going to call up their local newspaper or not,
and by the way, experience suggests it they will. But
that's okay. But what you would do is if you
got a signal and it seemed to be what you're
(11:09):
looking for, what you do is you'd pick up the
phone and you'd call somebody in another country, you know,
maybe in Europe or somewhere far away, but somebody who
also has a big antenna, and you'd say, look, you know,
we're picking up a signal here and it looks like
it might be ET. I'll give you the coordinates on
the sky and the frequency. Will you see if you
(11:31):
can find it. So that's how you'd verify. You just
have somebody else, you know, completely unrelated to you, as
it were, look for the signal as well, and with
their own equipment, you know, all that sort of thing,
just to make sure you're not fooling yourself.
Speaker 7 (11:45):
Seth. Are there protocols in place in case of a
definite first contact event?
Speaker 8 (11:50):
Well, there are protocols. In fact, I believe it or not,
I was a person in charge of the subcommittee of
the International Academy of Iroonautics and astronautics that made those protocols.
I helped write them in fact. But the protocols don't
have any I mean, these protocols don't have any force
of law. It isn't the case that if you violate
(12:11):
the protocols or something, you know, somebody with the uniform
is going to show up your door. They're kind of
gentleman's agreement, although a lot of the gentlemen are actually women.
And all it is is to say, look, if you
find a signal, you know, check it out, to make
sure that it isn't just a bug in your software,
(12:33):
and if you're convinced that it's for real, then just
announce it to the world so that other people would
you know, instrumentation, can also try and check it out.
It would be like, I don't know, somebody thinks that
they found the cure for cancer. You wouldn't keep that secret,
you know, you would just publish it or you would
call people up and you know, have other people verify it.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
Seth' stne by, you and I have to take our
first break in dexhonation. I guess this hour is Seth
Trustack and his website is set the show stack dot com.
This is the excellent I'm rob oc'connell, Seth, and I
will return shortly after this break said uncle away.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Some days I walk, some days I crawl.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Some days I can't feel.
Speaker 9 (13:29):
Much at all.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
My body's amaze that I try to read.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Every step forwardward asil.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
But I won't let this break who im. I've learned
how to fight, learn how to stand.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Amy for.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, listen up.
Speaker 9 (14:06):
It's a cry in the night, Saint Catherines, man, we
gotta fight, Kayla crestings and right on in ground Zero's
lost echoes of despair? What a heavy cost? Homeless in
(14:30):
the shadows, begging for away while the city's turning blind,
letting good folks sway. Garbage on the street, smell of
rotten pain. Drug dealers want their pride. It's a damn shame.
Prostitutes in nally staring, hollow and cold, while the council's
counting dollars are city sold.
Speaker 10 (14:47):
Here where is the car?
Speaker 11 (14:50):
This goes aft out the streets, lay ignoring the cries
on the lost, Down on me, Saint Catharads, is this.
Speaker 8 (14:57):
All you sick?
Speaker 7 (15:03):
Welcome back everyone, Seth Trostak is my special guest www
dot sethsrustak dot com seth. Do you believe that micro
micro particles of alien life have already been found and
they exist within our solar system, perhaps on Mars or Europa.
Speaker 8 (15:21):
Well, it may be that there's evidence or extraterrestrial life
in our solar system. I don't know about microparticles, but
you know, maybe if could just dig around in the
dirt on Mars, you may find you know, fossils, remnants
of life that existed there a long time ago, or
maybe even life that still exists there, that kind of thing.
But I don't think you're going to find, you know,
(15:41):
evidence for aliens in our solar system unless unless, I
mean it's a possibility the aliens have decided to come
to our solar system to mine the asteroid belt. A
lot of you know, metals in the asteroid belt, and
anybody paying attention to the news these days knows that,
you know, certain metals, rare earth elements can be somewhat valuable.
Speaker 7 (16:04):
Just as the president of the Ukraine. Yeah, what kind
of intelligent daily in life are we most likely to discover?
First biological beings or a machine based intelligence?
Speaker 8 (16:17):
Well, of course, you know, I mean I sort of
hesitate to even venture a guess because it's only going
to be a guess. But I would say this. In
the movies, all the aliens are you know, they're all organic,
they're all living things, right, yea, and they're usually ugly,
but all right, that's okay. I mean most of the
things that the local zoo, I guess some people would
(16:38):
consider ugly now.
Speaker 7 (16:40):
And then there's the animals that are there too.
Speaker 8 (16:43):
Yeah, that's right, that's right. But maybe it's only that
they're different. I don't know. But if you think about, well,
what sort of critters are going to be running around
planet Earth another, you know, thousand years from now or
even a million years from now, I think that if
you manage doesn't wipe itself out, humanity will invent thinking machines.
(17:04):
I mean, we have computers. They don't really think, but
you know, maybe in a thousand years they do, or
maybe even one hundred years. And those machines can improve themselves, right,
that's the big difference. They can design their successors. And
so if that's the case here, it's probably been the
case elsewhere. And it could be that the majority of
(17:25):
the real smarts in the cosmos resides in these machines.
So maybe the Klingons have built some really smart machines
and that may be what the aliens look like, which,
of course wouldn't be terribly interesting. They would just be,
you know, a bunch of circuitry.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
Right seth. In your view, what are the chances that
alien civilizations are already aware of us?
Speaker 8 (17:48):
Well? I think the chances are not overwhelmingly good. And
the reason for that is how would you know? You
have to ask yourself, how would any aliens know that
were here? And they are only a couple of ways
they could know that. One is that if they had
really super duper telescopes, or maybe they you know, send
(18:09):
rockets around with cameras on them or something, and they
photographed the Earth. And if they photographed the Earth during
the last you know, I don't know century or something
like that, they would see highways and stuff like that,
big cities, they would see evidence of some sort of activity,
which is technologically fairly advanced. Right, So in that case
(18:30):
they would know we're here. Now, the other possibilities that
they pick up our early radio or television broadcast AM.
Radio doesn't go into space terribly easily from Earth because
of the ionistler. But you know, radar does, and television
signals do, so it's possible that if they're close enough
that if they were within sixty or seventy light years,
(18:53):
they may pick up some of our early TV broadcasts.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
Why haven't we seen concrete evidence of ets? I mean,
if the universe is so vast, or is there a
sign somewhere on the back of the Moon that says
Earth ahead turned back?
Speaker 8 (19:09):
Now, yeah, there may be, but we've made we've made
photos of the backside of the Moon and they don't
see any of those signs. But I think that the
only reason that we have not seen any evidence of
aliens so far is not because there are no aliens.
I mean, there are people who think that, but I'm
not one of them. I think that the reason is
quite simple. Our search for them has not been, you know,
(19:32):
terribly great so far. I mean, we've only looked at
a few thousand star systems very carefully. And given that
they're you know, maybe one hundred billion star systems in
our galaxy, maybe a thousand billion, the fact that we've
looked at a few hundred of them carefully, you know,
you shouldn't be surprised that you haven't foun them yet.
I mean it's like going to a south Sea island
(19:54):
something like that with a shovel and digging up a
you know, a square yard of the there on the
beach and say, well, I don't know, rob. You know,
we didn't hit any chests filled with pieces of eight,
so you know, maybe there's no gold to be found anywhere.
Well maybe not where you dug, but somewhere there might be.
Speaker 7 (20:13):
Is it possible that we're looking for the wrong type
of evidence set? Is it possible that instead of the
carbon based units like we are, that ET is a
totally different composition. Maybe they're a silicon based unit. Is
(20:35):
it possible?
Speaker 8 (20:36):
Well, in science fiction a lot of them are silicon based.
But when you say, okay, maybe ET isn't carbon based,
maybe it's silicon based. Well that's possible. Although to be honest,
carbon is much better at making complicated molecules than silicon is.
But okay, forget that. Maybe maybe our silicon based. But
(20:57):
how would that affect your efforts to find them? Right?
I mean, how are we trying to find them? We're
trying to eave drop on signals, right, And so it
really doesn't matter what their body chemistry is. If they're
building transmitters, you know, that's that's all we ask. We're
not very demanding.
Speaker 7 (21:14):
But maybe their transmitter uses a different form of broadcasting
that that is undetectable to our systems because they're not
much more events than we are.
Speaker 8 (21:28):
Well it could be, but you know, they're stuck with
the same physics that we're stuck with, true, right, and
and so you know, the details of how they build
a radio transmitter, of course will be different, just like
you know, the people that build automobiles are different. Different
companies that build automobiles some difference between them, but they
all have the same basic idea. And I think that
(21:52):
in case of transmitters, yeah, you know, they might have
a different kind of transistor or tubes or whatever the
technology is, but the physics of radio transmission doesn't change
if you go halfway across the galaxy. That's just physics.
And one of the great accomplishments of astronomy for the
(22:14):
past one hundred years two hundred years has been to
prove that the entire universe, as far as we can see,
the entire universe, is all made of the same stuff
and runs on the same physics. So you know, you
can talk about exotic physics, and they often do on TV. Yeah,
but it doesn't seem to be there.
Speaker 7 (22:34):
How does the Fermi paradox factor into your work?
Speaker 8 (22:37):
Well, for those who don't know the family paradox, and
if there are any members of the Fermi family listening,
I apologize for you know, boring you with this. But
the Fermi paradox was just based on a comment that
the Italian American physicists and Rico Fermi made decades ago
(22:57):
when he just said, sort of casually at lunch down
in New Mexico, he said, so, where is everybody now?
Faimi was a very very bright guy, and of course
the people he was having lunch with were also very
bright people, and they realized right away what he was saying.
What he was saying is this, no matter what your
technology is, if you can build a rocket, you could
(23:20):
in principle go from one place in the galaxy to another.
I mean, you could go from one star system to another.
Right now, It's it's not something we can yet do,
but you know, I mean maybe in one hundred years
or a.
Speaker 7 (23:31):
Thousand years time as time.
Speaker 8 (23:35):
Yeah, yeah, that and so He was saying, if this
is the case, you know, why haven't they showed up here?
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Excellent question? Is there an answer?
Speaker 8 (23:48):
Well, well, there are plenty of people who, you know,
cook up answers. They're even books that claim that here
are the ways to reconcile the Fermi paradox with your
own with your own life, if you will. And they said, well,
you know, maybe I'll just suggest one here. Maybe nobody
sends any messages. They don't you know, have big transmitters
(24:10):
because you know, they don't know what's out there in
the galaxy, and they've just all decided it's it's too
risky to broadcast big signals, right, I mean, you don't
worry about that, you know, you don't hesitate to broadcast.
But maybe at some point in the future we'll decide that,
you know, we're going to shut down all the powerful
transmitters on Earth because it might be dangerous. Well, I
(24:34):
mean some of them might be doing that. I can
hardly believe that all of them do that.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
Could alien civilizations be using technologies far beyond what we
can detect or even imagine?
Speaker 8 (24:51):
Can can they be using those? Is that your question?
Speaker 7 (24:53):
Yes? Couldn't? Yeah? Could the question is that could alien
civilizations be using technologies far beyond what we can even
detect or even think of, that our science hasn't evolved
to a certain point that we can actually, you know,
understand what they're using. And is it possible that their
(25:16):
findings in the scientific community are totally different than ours,
even though some basics may be in place because of
the law physics.
Speaker 8 (25:27):
Yeah, I think you should keep that last point in
mind all the time. Yeah, because you know, one question
that the astronomers, even that cling on astronomers, are going
to ask inevitably, is well, how do stars work? What
makes stars shine? And that kind of thing. And the
answer to that, no matter what language they're speaking or
how they write down their ideas in books or whatever,
(25:51):
you know, it's basically the same physics no matter where
they are. So I think that, yeah, I mean, our
technology is going to look kind of kind of primitive,
I'm sure, yeah, one hundred years from now on thousand
years from now, But the physics doesn't change, as I say,
that's that's the big lesson from astronomy, that the physics
(26:12):
is the same everywhere. And as Scotty in the Star
Trek used to say, you can't change the laws of physics.
Speaker 7 (26:20):
You and I have to take our break, Seth, so
please stand by and explanation. I guess this hour is
Seth shrost Deck. If you have watched any of the
TV shows that you know talk about the realistic side
of the search for et you've most certainly seen doctor
(26:40):
Seth shast Deck. And if you'd like to find out
more about Seth, visit his website Seth shaust deck dot com.
This is the X one. I'm Rob McConnell and Seth
and I return on the other side of this break
as the exone continues from our broadcast center and studios
in Saint Catharine's, Ontario, Canada, and extremely on your hometown
(27:01):
radio classic twelve twenty.
Speaker 9 (27:04):
Man, We Gotta Fight, Kayla Crescings and right on in
ground Zeros lost, Echoes of despair. What a heavy cost.
Homeless in the shadows, begging for away, while the city's
(27:27):
turning blind, letting good folks sway, garbage on the street,
smell of rotten pain, drug dealers want their pride. It's
a damn shame. Prostitutes and nally staring, hollow and cold,
while the council's counting dollars are city sold?
Speaker 10 (27:42):
Hey man, where is the chair?
Speaker 11 (27:44):
This goes alto the streets, lay ignoring the cries on
the lost, down on meek Saint Catalads?
Speaker 9 (27:52):
Is this all you?
Speaker 8 (27:53):
Sick?
Speaker 12 (28:17):
In the twilight hush where shadows whisper below, a silver
gleamer streaks across the sky, a glow.
Speaker 13 (28:34):
With a haunting mellowd.
Speaker 12 (28:38):
The air begins to throw an echo the wonders that.
Speaker 13 (28:46):
From beyond Ta come celestial encounter as the stars a line,
a tapestry of wonders woven through space and time.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
From avoid of darkness, of course.
Speaker 9 (29:03):
Sober bright.
Speaker 13 (29:06):
The stories unfolding in the velvet nine.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
Welcome back to your one. Doctor. Seth Shostak is my
very special guest, that's our His website is Seth Shostak
dot com. Seth, how do movies like Contact, Arrival or
Independent Stage shape public expectations about SETI.
Speaker 8 (29:27):
Well, I mean I don't know, but I think their
biggest effect is probably on young people. I mean, if
young people are the way I was when I was young,
back before the First World War. I mean, you know,
every weekend I would go to the movies. It would
see at least one or two movies every week, right,
(29:50):
and my whole, my whole mindset when it came to
the existence of aliens, or the possible existence of aliens
and what they might be like, all that was defined
by what I saw in the movies. Now, of course,
the people that are writing the scripts or movies are
not scientists, so I'm sure a lot of it is
completely wrong.
Speaker 7 (30:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (30:10):
But on the other hand, you know, it gets kids
interested in science. Certainly got me interested in science. People say,
you know, how do you ever get interested in astronomy,
And the answer is, well, movies I saw as a kid.
Speaker 7 (30:27):
Not to mention the night sky.
Speaker 8 (30:29):
Yeah, there's a nice guy, but you get to that later. Okay,
you get to the movies earlier.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
Yeah. So if you're talking about before World War One,
then I guess I'm oh my god, let's just go
to the next part of this question. Are you ever
concerned that the public interest in aliens is dominated by
conspiracy theories and science fiction.
Speaker 8 (30:54):
Well, to know, to be honest, it doesn't worry me
very much. It seems to be an obsession with some
of my colleagues. There are plenty of scientists who love
to lament the fact that the you know, science literacy
so cruddy that people, you know, believe all sorts of
crazy stuff. But on the other hand, Americans and I
(31:15):
don't mean North Americans. I want to leave the Canadians
out of this, but the Americans, the United States, I've
always believed in crazy stuff, and that's not always bad.
I mean, sometimes that's good. So it doesn't bother me
because I don't think it's anything new, And if you're
at least enticed to learn more about science I'm reading
(31:38):
a book or whatever, then then it's a good thing.
I mean. The fact that you have aliens coming down
and flattening Toronto just for the heck of it, that
may not be terribly realistic, But on the other hand,
it gets some kids interested in science.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
Why aliens would want to go to Toronto is beyond me.
But okay, I'm trying very hard to stay out of
the political situation, so please bear with me. How do
you personally deal with UFO enthusiasts, Seth who believe VAILI
in contact has already happened, you know?
Speaker 8 (32:18):
Yeah, well, I certainly meet quite a number of them.
I mean, if I go to a conference, yeah, right,
and you know, the people will come up to me
and they will, you know, say, look, I don't know
why you're being so disingenuous about this whole thing. You
know very well that the aliens have landed or crash
landed in New Mexico or something like that, and that
(32:40):
the government is covering it up. The government. When they
say government, of course they mean the United States government.
The government knows very well that aliens have been visiting
Earth and they're covering it up. I try not to
get upset because, of course I've heard this so many
times and I've never seen any good evidence for it.
In fact, when I was younger, I grew up just
(33:01):
across the Potomac River from Washington, d C. Where I
grew up, it was two miles from the Pentagon, and
everybody in my neighborhood, all the men there worked for
the US military. I mean, that was the local industry, right,
And so you know, I've had jobs with the federal government.
I think I even have a top secret clearance. Not sure,
(33:23):
but I think. And I've never been terribly impressed with
the US government's ability to keep anything secret. So if
people want to believe that, you know, the government is
keeping it all from us. The first thing I will
ask them, why do you think that, what's the motive
for that, right? Why would they want to keep it secret?
You want everybody to work on that problem if it
(33:43):
really was true, if there was some good evidence. So,
but the second thing I say is, you know, having
worked for the federal government, I've never been impressed by
their ability to keep any secrets.
Speaker 7 (33:54):
Yeah, that's always that's always confused. Being unlike, if the
President of the United States can have a sexual encounter
in the Oval Office, in the most secure building in
the world, how the name and God would they keep
the secret that the aliens are here? You know, it
makes no sense.
Speaker 8 (34:13):
Right, and particularly since you know, the evidence that the
aliens are here would not be something that would only
be visible to the occupant of the White House. I
mean there would be you know, reports all over the country,
presumably now all over the world. I mean, you know,
here in the US, we generally considered the United States
(34:35):
to be the world. But you know, I've lived in
Europe and they have their own ideas. Yes, that's right,
the aliens. If the aliens landed there, they their government
would tell them.
Speaker 7 (34:46):
Oh my God, I just had a thought. Here. Can
you imagine President Trump standing in front of the world
saying that, you know, the aliens are here thanks to him.
Speaker 8 (35:00):
Well, he's always taken credit for things, Yes, and maybe,
I mean, if he judged their presence here to be
a good thing, maybe he would do that. I mean, look,
if the aliens did land to begin with, that would
probably be on the front pages of the papers, exactly.
I think that. But you know, months or maybe even
years later, when we finally figure out how to communicate
(35:23):
with these aliens, assuming they haven't just wiped us out
for the heck of it, if we could communicate with them,
you know, you would ask him some very obvious questions, like,
you know, tell us all about the physics we don't know,
tell us how to cure cancer, tell us all this stuff,
tell us, you know, what does dark matter and that
kind of thing? All these things they could answer for
us in the same way that we might be able
(35:45):
to answer a lot of questions from Queen Victorious time,
from the people that were living back then. So you know,
I think it would be a great educational opportunity.
Speaker 7 (35:53):
I can tell you, having been to one of her
birthday parties that she is a great lady. Okay, goes
to my age. How do you how do you personally
deal with UFOs? You know, has has your view changed
over the years after speaking with experiences or abductees? How?
(36:15):
How is how is contact with chess with Seth Shastak
changed over the years? Because of all the people that
you've talked to about UFOs abductees, are you more of
a believer now or are you still in the middle
of the road.
Speaker 8 (36:33):
I'm just going to disappoint you know, half the listenership here.
But but I haven't changed my mind very much because
I've never heard anything that you know, I thought, well,
that's really hard to explain. There are so many possible
explanations for the kind of evidence that's presented that UFOs
have come to Earth. I mean, you know, people say
(36:54):
they've seen them, but that's witness testimony and witness testimony
my you know, I'm not saying that people would deliberately lie,
but they might not realize that what they're saying isn't true.
That that's often the case, and so if they you know,
if the aliens really came here, I think there would
be a lot of good photographic evidence for that. Sure,
(37:14):
it'd be really good pictures instead of crummy pictures. And
so you know, in the absence of that kind of
really compelling evidence, I don't think they're here. And if
they are here, you got to say they're really good
house guests because they don't seem to do anything bad.
Speaker 7 (37:33):
That's that's very true. That is so true. What do
you think about the US government's recent disclosures on UAP seth, Well, I've.
Speaker 8 (37:43):
You know, I don't it's not something I specialize in
looking at the uapiece, but I've certainly looked at the videos.
And you know, if if you search online with some
keyword that you know will bring you back information about
those videos, you'll find that there are a couple of
people who actually have looked at those videos and figured out,
(38:06):
to their status satisfaction what those videos show. And you know,
there are obviously some sort of craft or balloons actually,
because we send a lot of balloons up into the
higher atmosphere for you know, meteorology stuff like that, and
you know, some of those things are in fact balloons
(38:27):
for sure. And so if these people who are basically
amateurs just looking at this stuff, if they can kind
of convince themselves or anybody who reads their stuff that
what you're looking at there is not, you know, an
alien spacecraft, but in fact a high altitude balloon. Well,
who am I to say that isn't a possibility. And
(38:48):
if it's a possibility, you should certainly consider it, because
it's not quite as extreme as say, nope, those are
aliens seth.
Speaker 7 (38:56):
What role do amateur astronomers play in the search for ets?
Speaker 8 (39:02):
Well, they you know, they don't have a very large
role because how are they going to find ets? But
there have been some projects that appeal to amateurs, not
necessarily amateur astronomers, but things like SETI at Home. Some
people may remember that that was a project that was
(39:24):
run by the University of California, Berkeley, which is, you know,
like twenty miles from where I'm sitting here in the
University of California, Berkeley, and they just you know, had
this software you could download for free and you put
it on your computer. You may remember a lot of
people did it, like seven or eight million people did it,
and then they could reduce some data taken by radio
(39:45):
telescopes and they might be able to find a signal
from et now that's been stopped, but only because they
couldn't pay pay the one guy who was charged with
doing it anymore. I mean it's you know, even one
person is somewhat expensive in academia.
Speaker 7 (40:04):
I remember that very well. In fact, I had one
computer that was dedicated just for SETI at home, and
you know, I thought it was very exciting that you
were being part of something with millions of other people
trying to get that piece of the jigsaw puzzle that
would kind of finish the puzzle. It was a great
(40:26):
idea and I love being part of it. Seth, you
and I have to take our final break for this
hour and ex O Nation, Doctor Seth Shawstak and I
will return on the other side of this free short break.
This is the final segment for tonight show. Don't forget that.
Each end every Monday through Friday from ten pm EA
from until midnight, we're right here on the x O
(40:46):
Broadcast Network, Talkstar Radio Network, and the Mutual Broadcast Network.
And starting in a few weeks, we're going to be
going three hours from ten pm until one am Monday
through Friday, with the best of every Saturday and Sunday
from ten until one The X Zone is growing thanks
(41:09):
to you, the members of the Exone Nation, and thanks
to guests like doctor Seth Shawstek who has been on
the show for many years. And you know, I commend
you for your great work that you've done over the year, Seth.
And so from everyone who cannot say thank you because
they don't have the opportunity of speaking to you, I'm
going to say it for them. Thank you, Seth for
(41:30):
all you do. We'll be back on the other side
of this break as we wrap up this hour here
in the X Zone with here Australia, Rob mcconnull my
special guest, doctor Seth Shawstock Doc away.
Speaker 12 (41:52):
In the twilight, hush with shadows wispers, in.
Speaker 6 (42:20):
The stillness of the high desert sky, where the.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Stars tell stories as the eagles fly.
Speaker 10 (42:30):
There walks so warm and strong and wise, with ancient
echoes in her eyes, a healer's voice, a sacred flame,
calling all seekers by then, oh wild.
Speaker 6 (42:54):
Child of the dawn, keeper of truth, that we never gone.
Speaker 9 (43:01):
You walk.
Speaker 6 (43:03):
Where few have, trine with the earth, the voice of God,
on the wws of change that never.
Speaker 7 (43:23):
From tribals, Welcome back, every one. Doctor Seth Shostak is
our special guest, and his website is www dot Seth
Shostak dot com. As we were saying off air, Seth,
I want to thank you so much for coming on
the show. And man, you know, people need to understand
that there's three sides to every story, his side, her side,
(43:45):
and the truth. And that's what we try to do
here on the X Zone each and every night is
bring some balance.
Speaker 6 (43:52):
You know.
Speaker 7 (43:53):
Yes, we have people who are hardened believers in the
fact that et is here. They're buried in underground bunkers
at Area fifty one. We have the people who say, Nah,
it's impossible, it's a bunch of bunk And then you
have people like doctor Seth Shastak, who looks at both
sides and using science and physics, is able to try
(44:18):
and help us make sense of some of the most
intriguing and important questions that we've ever asked on this
planet concerning those who may be here or even watch.
I guess, Seth, what has been the most exciting moment
in your career so far?
Speaker 8 (44:37):
Well, I mean, I'm not sure. Well, actually, something does
come to mind. There was a situation back in nineteen
ninety I think it was nineteen ninety six when we
picked up a signal that you look like the real
(44:57):
do look like This was the thing we were looking for,
or had all the characteristics of a signal being made
by a transmitter. And for a while, I mean, we
were getting more and more excited because we were doing
all the usual tests you made to make sure that
it isn't you know, just bugging the software or a
(45:17):
glitch in the hardware or even you know, University of
Toronto undergraduate prank or something like that. Right, So we
were doing all these tests and it looked pretty good,
but it turned out that it wasn't et In the end,
it took up about a day or almost two days
to figure it out, and in the end it turned
(45:40):
out that it was you know, it was just just
a glitch in the system. So, you know, kind of
a technical problem, sure, but but but it was exciting.
For a while, I thought maybe this is it, you know,
and I couldn't sleep actually it was, so you know,
wound up about it.
Speaker 7 (45:59):
One day you will find it, my friend. I have
the way that you work with, the diligence, professionalism you
and the team that you work with. I have high
expectations that one day we'll hear on CNN, we'll see
your face and I'll say to my wife, I told
(46:20):
you he'd find it.
Speaker 8 (46:23):
Well, in that case, you have to buy me the
cup of coffee.
Speaker 7 (46:26):
It'll be my pleasure, Seth. If we do find intelligent life,
how do you think humanity will respond spiritually, socially, and politically.
Speaker 8 (46:38):
That's really a good question, wrong because there are people
who think, well, the public couldn't handle the news, and consequently,
you know, we may already have found a signal and
we're keeping it quiet, or the aliens may already be
here on Earth and we're keeping it quiet. Whenever I
ask people who believe it, I say, well, why are
we keeping it quiet? And they say, well, it's because
the public couldn't handle the news that they would go
(47:00):
completely nuts. Well, I don't think so. I mean, think
about your neighbors, your relatives, whatever. And suppose they picked
up the papers tomorrow, if they know what a paper is,
and they read, well, scientists have found a signal coming
from some star system, you know, thirty light years away
or whatever. Do you think that they would start writing
in the streets. Would they go completely Tell them, No, no,
(47:23):
they wouldn't. They would just say, well that's really interesting, yeah,
you know, and maybe they tune in the news, and
so I think that that's the way it would be handled.
I don't think that there's any worry that if we
find et that suddenly society is going to fall apart.
Keep in mind, the aliens are going to be far away,
I mean exactly, you know, just statistically, so they're not
(47:43):
going to interfere with you, you know, your tennis date
on the weekend.
Speaker 7 (47:48):
I've often wondered what ethical considerations are involved in sending
messages out into space. Is it possible that the messages
were sending out could be misinterpular as an act of
war or a warning to stay away from Earth or
something that would provoke the wrong message.
Speaker 8 (48:10):
Well, I suppose that's possible. Keep in mind, the aliens
are probably not very well schooled in English or whatever,
you know. I mean, on TV they always are, but
in reality they might not know that. I don't actually
worry about that. I mean, they may look at Earth,
you know, with their equipment, and what they would find
or signals coming off the Earth. Certainly you know, high
(48:33):
powered radar and television and stuff like that, but those
signals don't tell them much about us. Actually, well, television does.
I suppose they could watch TV. They could figure out
how to decode a television's signal and turn it into
you know, a moving picture if you will. I'm sure
they could do that, and you know, then they would see, well,
(48:54):
what you see on your television at night, maybe without
the sound. But I don't think that they would say, well,
all right, you know, these guys are obviously kind of worthless.
It's time to launch the interstellar rockets and let's go
wipe them out. I mean, that doesn't make a whole
lot of sense to me. So maybe some of them
know about us, but you know, they've not sent any
(49:17):
follow up messages about send more of this, or send
more of that, or can you restrict a number of
commercials or whatever?
Speaker 7 (49:24):
Well, that would be nice. Can you just imagine this,
in the middle of nowhere, there are two people in
a field. All of a sudden they see this light
in the sky and like it's bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger,
and lord, what do you know, there's a real flying saucer.
(49:46):
The flying saucer a lands now here is a craft
that traversed the universe. Maybe the time space continuum. Who
knows the door opens, comes the ladder, and down come
these little three and a half foot eties, kind of
cute looking things like the Smurfs. Okay, and they walk
(50:10):
up to the two people who watch the landing and
they say, take me to your leader. The way President
Trump treated President Zelensky, to me would be a major
concern that, you know, we'd have the first intergalactic event going.
(50:33):
Nobody has ever asked President Trump about what he believes
about the UFO community or if UFOs are here have
you know, I would have expected something after the last
government what was it called committee, that he would have
(50:54):
said something by now or somebody one of the reporters
would have asked him that it's but I have heard
nothing from the President's office that has anything to do
with UFOs, UAPs, what NASA is doing when it comes
to the exploration possibility of ets. What's your take on that.
Speaker 8 (51:20):
Seth, Well, I'm not surprised that the President hasn't said much.
I mean, even aside from what you may think of Trump,
and no other president has really said very much either.
I mean, it's just not something that's, if you will,
on their radar, because you know, they've got other things
to worry about, so that doesn't bother me too much.
(51:41):
I don't think that it really matters either, because if
we find evidence for aliens, either by finding it in
space right or picking up a signal, or even if
they decide to land on Earth and stroll around looking
for some good fast food. I mean, no matter how
we do it, it won't be just one person that notices, right,
(52:04):
It's going to be lots of people. That will be
people that are whipping out their phones and making photos
or videos and so for and so on. So it's
going to be a discovery that many people will be
involved in. So I don't worry too much about, you know,
the behavior one person, even if that one person is
the president. It's science. If it's science, you know, there's
(52:26):
no keeping it secret. A lot of people are going
to know.
Speaker 7 (52:28):
There's an idea for an entrepreneur out there who has money,
who wants to get into the restaurant business, fast food
mcaliens there you have all these little Oh, come on, seth,
that's not that bad. Yeah, you know, there's so much
that we don't know, and I think the time is
coming when we we should be more serious about the
(52:50):
exploration and the possibility of extraterrestrial life. And what advice
would you give, Seth to a young scientist or or
enthusiast who wants to work in astrobiology or work with
you in SETI.
Speaker 8 (53:05):
Yeah, well, I occasionally get asked that people will send me,
you know, mostly you know, young people, but they'll send
me an email and they say, look, you know, i'd
like to get involved with this. How do I do it? Well,
there's no secret, sauce. You just go to school. The
longer you go to school, the probably the better. All
the people that I know that work in this field
all have advanced degrees, right, they're all PhDs or whatever.
(53:29):
So it helps to stay in school and you know,
keep studying. But that's that's the only trick. There's no
other trick, right, You just stay in school. If you
have a degree, then you'll know what to do because
the people that are at the school you're at will
be telling you. Look, you know, here's the kind of
work that's been done out there. If any of it
(53:50):
interests you, why don't you write somebody who's working in
that field, Seth.
Speaker 7 (53:54):
The time has come, my friend, when you and I
must say so long now. I appreciate your time. I
appreciate the fact that you came on here and you
gave our listeners some real answers, and all I can
say is thank you so much. In the exlonation, please
visits Seth's website at www dot sethshustdeck dot com. Seth,
(54:18):
until the next time we meet, take care of yourself,
my friend, and as always, the very best to you
and yours.
Speaker 8 (54:24):
The same to you, Rob. I really really enjoyed it
and really appreciated the fact that you had me on
the show.
Speaker 7 (54:29):
Take care, my good friend and x oonation. I'll be
back tomorrow night at ten o'clock. Is once again we
crossed the time space continuum to this place that I
call the X Zone. So until tomorrow night, I always
remember to keep your eyes to the sky and your
heart till the light. Good night, everyone, and you're listening
(54:49):
to us on the X one Broadcast Network, Talkstar Radio Network,
Mutual Broadcast Network and streaming on Classic twelve twenty dot CA.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
Someday ease, I walk, some days, I crawl. Some days
I can't feel much at all. My body's amaze that
I try to read.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
Every step forwardward, a silent.
Speaker 4 (55:24):
But I won't let this break who I am. I've
learned how to fight, learn how to stand. I may fall,
still rise through the pain, through.
Speaker 6 (55:46):
The tears in min This road is long.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
But it's mind a tread with every sun rise. Alizna
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