Peter McCue worked for many years as a clinical psychologist in the National Health Service in the UK. He lives in Scotland. His qualifications include a Ph.D., from the University of Glasgow, awarded for a thesis based on research into the nature of hypnosis. His interest in psychical research goes back decades. He believes that paranormal phenomena occur, and that many UFO experiences are genuinely anomalous. He contends that if we want to obtain a comprehensive understanding of ourselves and the nature of reality, these enigmatic phenomena can't be ignored. Peter is the author of a recently published book, entitled Zones of Strangeness: An Examination of Paranormal and UFO Hot Spots.
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All hid.
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Welcome to the X Zone, a place where fact is
fiction and fiction is reality. Now here's your host Rob
McConnell read.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
I see.
Speaker 7 (04:04):
Fee.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
That is howline no good cross the distance and space
speakiners you have consu show.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Welcome back every one. This is the X Own. My
name is Rob McConnell. We're coming to you from our
studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, worldwide toll free one eight
hundred and six ten seven zero three five email Xon
at Xon Radio TV dot com, on MSN messenger, Xon
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dot Xon Radio tv dot com. Don't forget the let
me see the Bodysoul Spirit Expo that's being held at
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in Mississaka, right across from Pearson International Airport. Their website
www dot Bodysoul Spiritexpo dot com. We're gonna be talking
(05:13):
to Mark Gumbinger this hour. We're gonna be talking to
him about the Titanic, The Titanic Disaster now. He is
a marine historian, is a media mainstay, having appeared on
countless radio shows and every major TV network. His latest DVD,
The Titanic Disaster is just one of the thirty six
(05:34):
acclaimed shipwreck and Lighthouse programs he's researched and produced over
the past twenty years, including the Andrea Dori and of
course the Edmind Fitzgerald and joining me now is Mark Gumbinger.
And Mark, welcome back to the xcell and nice having
you with us.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Rup. I have to ask you this, what is the
attraction every year to the Titanic.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It seems to be, you know, it's really the mother
of all shipwrecks. You know, here we are one hundred
years ago this month with Titanic sink, and you know,
two hundred years from now, long after we're coming gone,
people will be talking about it in three hundred years.
I think it's a story. It's a comedy of errors. Rob.
You have this, this beautiful ship on our maiden voyage,
(06:21):
which started out virtually unsinkable, and somewhere along the way
in the in the media hype and everything that virtually
was dropped and then it was on the unsinkable ship
and it was almost like they were tempting fate in
God that there's no you know, you're a beautiful vessel,
you know it is. It is mind boggling here your
maiden voyage on eight hundred and eighty two and a
(06:42):
half footship, fifty three thousand tons, you know, carrying over
two thousand people. And it was like a slice of
the world in a time capsule.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You had it.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It was a little city. You had your first class millionaires,
you had your second class, then you had your steerage,
your third class. And if just maybe one or two
of these, like numerous things would have changed, the history
would have been changed, and the ship probably wuldn't have
sank it all, and it probably would have gone on
to a twenty or thirty five year career, very similar
(07:16):
to the sister ship, the Olympic, which is yet even
another thing that caused the Titanic to be in the
wrong place at the wrong time, because the two sister ships,
the Olympic and the Titanic, were being built side by side,
and when the Olympic was just a little bit ahead
of the Titanic went out on her sea trials. She
ended up colliding with another ship of German naval vessel
(07:39):
and they had to bring her back and work on her.
She was injured and she had a hole in her
but not enough to make her sink, and they took
all the men off the Titanic rob and they put
her all back over on the Olympic to finish that up.
So it pushed the Titanic back another twenty days. From
her leaving Southampton, England, they head to New York, which
actually caused that iceber to come farther south. And you know,
(08:03):
we know the rest from there.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah. You know, having done all the research on so
many res and lighthouses, is there a common thread or
common element that you've been able to discover when it
comes to a shipwreck.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You know, more often than not, it's it's a combination
of this of human error along with the environment.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
All right, stand by, Mark, I'm sorry we have to
go to our commercial break. Will be right back. Explanation.
Mark Gumbinger is my special guest. The website is www
Dot Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. That's www Dot Titanic
Disaster DVD dot com. Mark and I will be back
after this two minute break. As the x own continues
(08:47):
from our studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Don't go away.
(09:12):
Rob McConnell here presenting an overview for Nicholas Paul Jennix,
author of a fascinating book Amen. It presents facts revealed
by Egyptologists, facts that enable us to understand why Amen
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(09:32):
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Amen informs people how mankind conceived God. It was the
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the maker of all there is. For more information, visit
www dot Future of God Amen. That's www dot Future
of God Amen dot com. Whether you're a skeptic or
(10:21):
a believer, Join me Rob McConnell on the exone TV
Show coming soon to Screens of all sizes. On the
x Zone TV Show, we'll investigate UFOs, ghosts, alien abductions,
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(10:44):
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The xone TV Show with Yours truly, Rob McConnell www.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Dot xzonetv dot com.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Is a realmar McConnell media company and airplane media production. Fartlets, fartlings, pongis,
and honkers. They have so many names. Makes you go bonkers, rear, tempest, butt, bubbles,
(11:20):
bottom burps all aside, Why does it smell like a
little rat dyed?
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Hail?
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The fart whenever, wherever, whoever? Its existence actually enriches our
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Speaker 8 (12:34):
But it's not about it down the paradise that these
do not vote when this right, you said away find thebuility.
Oh can scandal American? Just you wait and see be.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
Me. It's not.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Welcome back everyone. Mark Gumbinger is my special guest. His
website is www dot Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. That's
Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. Mark. What are some of
the chains of events that actually led to the demise
of the Titanic.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
There were so many rob It started out Bruce Ismay.
He was the head of the White Star Lines. He
was the big you know, the big, the big hancho.
Him and Lord Pierry, uh uh, Perry, I should say,
back in like nineteen oh seven came up with the
brainchild idea of let's build three massive ships, larger and
more beautiful than their competition. The Canard Line was their
(13:47):
main competition for White Star Lines, and they had large,
beautiful ships also, but they wanted to really blow you know,
really really make a statement, blow them out of the water,
so to speak. So they were going to build the Olympic,
the Titanic, and the Gaika. Well they started with the
Olympic and the Titanic, and then after they lost the Titanic,
they thought that Gigantic was too ostentatious, so they pulled
(14:08):
back in the reins and they call it the Britanic instead.
So anyway, the chain of events. Bruce Ismay, they were
originally going to have sixty four lifeboats on the Titanic,
but he thought, well, you know, it takes up a
lot of deck space in the promenade deck up in
first class, and this ship's virtually unsinkable. We're not. You know,
(14:30):
having all these lifeboats is like a bad commercial, like,
you know, what do we need these lifeboats for? So
let's instead of having sixty four, let's cut back to
thirty two. We're never going to need all those lifeboats.
And besides, we'll still be compliant because also a compliance
really for back then, but they weren't making ships eight
hundred and eighty two feet. Most ships were three four
(14:50):
hundred feet long. Back then. The compliance was sixteen lifeboats.
And then they started thinking, well, you know, we don't
really need thirty two lifeboats, let's just make it sixteen.
But what we'll do is we'll put in an additional
four collapsible lifeboats, and not only will be compliant, but
we'll have a four additional extra lifeboats that we don't
even need, just for extra safety precaution. So we'll have
(15:12):
even more deck space and promenade space for the first
class passengers. And this will just be wonderful. So you know,
the real villain, if you have to point a finger,
is Bruce's man. Then when they were designing her, they
cheapened her up. They used a lower class rivet up
in the front where the curve of the ship comes
(15:33):
down ironically right where the iceberg met the ship. They
went from like a third class rivet to a fourth
class which had less steel, a more slag in it,
and it wouldn't withhold as well. Plus the Titanic. It
was that old brittle steel anyhow, that the plates there
were only about an inch thick. And when it became
(15:56):
very cold and became very brittle, and in this case
you hear, you have an example of twenty eight degree
water temperature that night, just and you can only imagine hypothermia.
It would you would, you would be unconscious in a
matter of minutes and maybe sufferre harder attack and be
completely dead in twenty to thirty minutes. It's just that fast.
(16:17):
It's just that rapid. And the poor people you can
only imagine you know, sticking, you know, immersing your even
in your hand in that water, you know, for for
a few seconds. You imagine imagine having to submerge your
whole body into that and instantly, you know, the only
good thing about it is that people didn't suffer that
long because they were so numb so fast, but you know,
(16:39):
consciousness was just so rapid. But not getting back to
the chain of events. So now you have from sixty
four to sixteen lifeboats and four collapsibles. They had the
cheaper rivet, so when they hit the iceberg, that rivet
popped off and sheered off, and if it was maybe
the better class rivet, it might have withheld the impact
(17:02):
of the iceberg. The other thing is they were the
captain was sailing with Bruce Ismay was on board, and
they think his just his presence alone caused the captain
to be schlepping along and about twenty five miles an
hour about twenty three knots wasn't quite a maximum speed
but close. I think she was about twenty six twenty
(17:23):
seven was maximum on the Titanic that night, and she
was still going along at twenty five. There were several
iceberg warnings that were coming at him that some which
made it to the captain and some wouldn't which didn't
that said, hey, there's icebergs that ahead. There were several
other ships in the area, including the California, that sent
(17:44):
them an iceberg warning about an hour and ten minutes
before she sank. But the Marconi wireless radio operator didn't
work for Titanic. They worked for their own company that
was leased inside the Titanic. Never, they think, never they
airard that last Iceberg warning, never made it up to
the bridge to warn, to warn of that. In fact,
(18:05):
they not only did it not reach the bridge. The
wireless operator of the Titanic on the Marconi radio radio
back this Californian and said, shut up, leave us alone.
We're trying to get messages out, because I think they
were having problems with the radio earlier and they were
trying to get these these messages. They had these all
these millionaires like John Aster. They were sending these very
(18:25):
expensive messages to New York saying, hey, we're going to
be arriving you know such and such time, and sending
these great messages. That's how they made their money. They
didn't really make money by hearing hearing the Iceberg warings.
So I was just again this comedy of errors, Rob.
So then this was about I think that was around
ten thirty at night and eleven thirty nine they saw
(18:48):
the Iceberg, and can you imagine this, Rob. Here you
have the gentleman, the lookout up in the crow's nests.
They didn't have the binoculars with them. They didn't either.
They were left in Southampton, England, or they were down
in a locker somewhere. Wherever they were, they were misplaced.
They weren't where they should have been up the crows nest,
(19:09):
so they were running up there basically with their naked eye.
And then on top of everything else, Rob it's a
moonless night, so you don't have any ambient light from
the moon, and it was a flat, dead calm night,
so you didn't have any frothing up on the iceberg,
where if there was a little bit of a chop
you could see the iceberg a lot center just you know,
(19:31):
just a comedy of their.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
One thing right after the next. Why did they think
that the Titanic was unsinkable, especially if they used second
quality Rivet's you know metal that was only a sheet
metal that was only an inch wide. What gave them
the idea that this ship was unsinkable?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
The well, these iron plates are about an inch thick.
They had the watertight compartments, but they didn't go all
the way up to the top of the top of
the ship. They only went up like I think twelve
fifteen feet she measured from the from the bottom up.
They didn't go all the way up to the to
the to the top where so what happened when she
(20:14):
pierced the side of the iceberg rob two hundred and
ninety nine feet was partially perfed where the rivets were
sheared off and allowed all that water to come in
and sort of peeled back those those plates. And they
figured that if anything ever happened to the ship, that
one or two of those compartments would fill up, but
(20:34):
the pumps could keep up with her long enough for
another ship to come by. And they never thought in
their wildest dreams, under normal circumstances, that those rivets had
to be as strong as those other ones. You know,
it just happened, you know that that that area of
the ship where they curved up from from the keel,
right where it curved up by the bow over there,
(20:56):
right where she happened to hit the iceberg, was really
one of her weaker points. You know, who would have
thunk if it was under normal circumstances, those Class four
rivets would have would have held up for fifty years
and it would never have been an issue. So it
was sort of an engineering staff who, you know. And
then what they later did on the Olympic after the
Titanic sink. They they came. They didn't even know about
(21:17):
the rivets back then. But what they did do is
bring the bulkheads up higher and add more lifeboats, so
they learned from that.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Anyhow, how long did it actually take the Titanic to
sink from the time she hit the iceberg until the
time she went right under.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
About two hours and forty minutes. And the coward bruces May.
He got on the last collapsible lifeboat and he got
there was there was a heck to pay because he
the Senate Inquiry in New York gave him like a
thousand questions, and under peer pressure, he later left the
(21:55):
White Star. And he never wanted to talk about it
in company, to talk about the Titanic, he would refuse
to talk about it in his presence. I mean he uh,
you know, the the designer, the captain Edwards, they went
down with the ship. Bruce says, May got on that
last lifebook.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Unreal. He was a college He was a villain in
this in today's in today's money, how much would the
first class ticket would have cost?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
You know, I forget the amoment. I want to say,
I want to say, I was it five thousand dollars. Yeah,
and some of this is going back from my memory
from your body a year ago when we were researching this.
(22:41):
But I can see if it can cross reference.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Oh no, it's okay. I thought I you know, for
some reason, I thought it might have been around five
thousand can edge five thousand dollars in today's currency, But
back then that was a lot of money. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Well, if your John Aster and your millionaire back then,
a millionaire really meant that you were that you were
a million you know, unlike today's inflationary money, a million
dollars back then you could afford, you know, five thousand
dollars to be chump change and be like you and
me would be like five cents.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Would it be fair to say that the Titanic was
doomed before she even hit the water?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Well, in a sense, because the the we had all
this media hype, oh you know, it's virtually unthinkable, and
somewhere along the way the virtual got dropped and it's unsinkable.
Then you had, you know, you had these rivets, and
then you had Bruce's May and these other choices that
we don't need, you know, what they really needed was
(23:43):
a bare minimum. I think if you did the math
with the amount of passengers on board, I think forty
nine if you call it fifty lifeboats should have been
the bear bare minimum for the amount of people on
board that night. But obviously sixty four would have been
about right.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
So how did they get away with it?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Well, you see, back back then, Rob these ships were
two three four hundred feet long and the minimum requirement
was was only sixteen lifeboats. But this is a brand
new age of shipping, where the last that last year
or two they were starting to finally build these supercized ships,
(24:21):
and the Titanic being eight hundred and eighty two and
a half feet long, they should have said, hey, this
should be a minimum. You know, they would have even
doubled the sixteen, you know, had thirty two and then
let's say maybe had another eight or ten collapsibles that
would have been put in it pretty close.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Hey, Mark, you and I have to tell your commercial
break with the news stand by. We'll be right back.
Mark Gumbinger's my special guest exponation Titanic Disaster DVD dot com.
We'll be back after this news break. Don't go away.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
How long will we be.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, Join me Rob
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(25:34):
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Speaker 9 (29:25):
It's Almontes play Folklo homersis zibs call it the name.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
Do you shall jump in that.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Explanation? Mark Gunbinger's are special guests this hour. We're talking
about the Titanic and Mark's got a DVD that is out.
It's called The Titanic disaster and Mark's website is www
dot Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. That's Titanic Disaster DVD
dot com. So looking back as as we can with history,
(30:31):
how have things changed within the sailing industry and what
was attributed to the loss of life on the Titanic
that made it safer for people from that point on.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, first thing, Rob, what they did was they said
the Titanic was obviously sailing way too fast for conditions.
They immediately passed a law that this should be an
equal amount of lifeboat size for the amount of people
on board. And they immediately made those changes to the
(31:04):
sister ship, the Titanic, sister ship, the Olympic, and other
ships that were sailing, and they finally were catching up
with the larger the larger length, and the larger sized vessels.
To be in compliance with those requests. They also passed
a law that you should back back then, they I
think it was around midnight, they've turned the radios off
(31:26):
in the ship. So they passed a law that there
should be a twenty four hour radio communication on board vessels.
And ironically, after they passed that, there was a ship
in the Chicago Harbor the Eastland and it was sort
of a top heavy ship. A couple of years later
and they we did a program on that. You can
(31:47):
go to our website adventit atsterial dot com and look
at that one as well. It links from the Titanic
Disaster DVD dot com. But on the Eastland, they took
a top heavy ship and they took the superstructure, put
reinforced it with concrete, and put additional heavy lifeboats on it.
So when people were boarding in the Chicago River that
(32:07):
morning as a result of this law that was passed
with the Titanic, it made the engineers trying to keep
the ballast level and people were running from one side
of the ship to the other and looking at people
on the shore and waving at them right, and the
ship campsized in the Chicago Harbor and eight hundred and
thirty five people died as a result of this. And
pretty much here you're passing a safety law as a
(32:29):
result of from the lifeboats in the Titanic, and here
you cause another eight hundred and thirty five people indirectly
as a result to die, and which is supposed to
be something for safety. So sometimes you just can't win
with this, but pretty much going too fast for conditions,
not having enough lifeboats, and the radio communication that really
(32:50):
hurt because there was another ship robbed, the California that
was this is the one that that warned the Titanic
about the about the iceberg But when they when the
Marconi operator on the Titanic shot it back, shut up,
leave us alone, turned off the radio and went to
bed about ten, you know, ten thirty quarter eleven that night.
(33:10):
And then an hour later, you know, she came in
contact with the icebergs and they were radioing for help
in an SOS and sparking back with the radio to
the California that that operator went to bed, and then
there was even more. They were launching rockets that night,
and they saw rockets and they even woke up the captain.
(33:32):
But the captain looked and decided, oh, that's nothing, maybe
they're celebrating or whatever, and he went back to bed.
And they didn't hear about it until the next morning.
After the Carpathia, which was like sixty miles away, they
had to seer around six icebergs that night, and they
even modified their the ship's engine, They modified the heat
(33:52):
in the engine so they could gain about another three knots.
But unfortunately they were too late to pick up all
those people because they were they were frozen to death
from hypothermia being in the water from the exposure. Where
the California if they were there was the Senate testimony
in New York. They said that they thought they believed
that if the California would have responded, they could have
(34:15):
probably saved just so many lives. I mean, over fifteen
hundred souls were lost in They run a.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Lot of people, mind you, one loss of life is
too much. However, fifteen hundred people, my lord, I understand.
The people of Halifax, Nova Scotia played a big part
in the aftermath.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yes, there was. They have the cemetery and the tributes,
and they have wonderful remembrances there every year, and they
have the just wonderful cemeteries, and you can see so
much documentation, and there's a museum over there, and it's
(34:54):
sort of really the gateway because there were so many,
so many of the bodies that they it ended up
there as well.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Could this happen again?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yes, and it did, I mean just not too long ago.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Right. The cost of just off the.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Coast of Italy Gone, The Captain the Chicken of the
Sea right now is sort of a little comedy to
a sort of horror trauma thing. But yeah, what you
have what I see now, I've done thirty six documentaries
and just a lot of ships. What I find, more
often than not, there's a human error, so often not
(35:35):
that it isn't spurred on as a result of something
that's out there physically or weather or fog, or maybe
going too fast for conditions or misreading radar. And then
what quite often happens is even if you had enough
lifeboats for the ship where the Titanic sank pretty slowly,
(35:59):
but like even in the case where the Andrea Doria
was in fog and they misread the radar distances and
they ended up having a collision, the list was so
rapid that it often renders half of the lifeboats useless.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Now, the Andrea Dori, if my memory serves me, sank
in the St. Lawrence River.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
No that's you're thinking of the I think that's the
Princess of Ireland. Andrea Doria was off a long island
and fixed and it was ran by the Stockholm that
was outbound to go to Sweden and the Andrea Doria
was a beautiful of the floating palace. The Italian liner
heading in, and that was a fog situation where they
(36:39):
think the I think it was the third mate on
the Stockholm misread the radar guide rings and instead of
like I think, he thought he was twelve or fifteen
miles away from the Andrea Dooria when I think he
was three or six. And then they misread the pip
on the radar screen and they both zigged and zagged
(37:01):
at the wrong time and they literally hit each other.
And back then they didn't have the shipping lanes like
they do today. It was like a free for all.
There was a lot more ships back there and back
in the fifties and there even today because now the
ships are even bigger, But there was no shipping lanes
back then. So you know, you think about when we're
driving down the freeway, you know you have the north
(37:22):
and south bound lanes east or west. This this was
just you just went where you went kind of thing.
Back then. They weren't that up on safety as much
as they should have been back then, and that was
another thing they learned from Andrea Doria that you know,
we should we should put install have it having shipping
lanes where everybody stays in their own zone.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
The last time you were on Mark, we talked about
the Edmund Fitzgerald. Has anything happened since then? Has has
there been a a an actual concrete finding on what
happened to the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
You know, I don't think we'll ever finding anything conclusive. Rob.
Nothing's really changed since my interview last was probably about
maybe two years ago. I think I was done what happened?
What I reading in between the lines, and I interviewed
authors and experts and captains of the coast I even
interviewed the captain of the Marine Board Investigation that conducted
(38:20):
the investigation for the Coast Guard.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
And.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
The Coast Guard thinks that she had faulty hatch covered
gaskets which would allow thousands of gallons of water a
minute to come in. There was a huge freshwater hurricane
that night. There was thirty thirty five foot waves, some
largest waves that are capable of Lake Superior that night.
And now we're talking to Great Lakes, the Great Lakes,
and Lake Superior especially has a wave that will just
(38:47):
chop your ship to death. Where the ocean has these
big swales and the separation, but the Great Lakes and
Lake Superior, the distance between the waves is so much shorter.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Is that what they call the three sisters?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, there was three sisters also. That's that was a
that was that mentioned that a larger wave than normal
came by in in succession of three. Captain Bernie Cooper
testified that he thought there was a much larger wave
that came by and thought that that caught up to her.
The most popular theory that from all the research that
(39:23):
I later believe in which I first thought maybe the
Coastguard was right with the faulty hatch cover gaskets, is
that she touched on a shoal near Caribell Island, and
most sailors will believe that she grounded and both of
her radar units were out, and if she bottomed out,
she could have opened up some water below her waterline.
(39:44):
And she was carrying this tactannied iron ore rob and
this this ore just absorbs like twenty five thirty percent
of its weight and water and the type and in
the fits case, the Fitzgerald only had a center drain,
so she didn't have a right or left or arbord
report drainage system. All that water had to go down
the middle of the ship all the way back to
(40:05):
the rose box in the back, and that that would
be pumped out, and her pumps were on, and she
did have a starboard list, and literally, in a blip
of a radar screen, rob the captain McSorley, he had
a ship to shore, a wireless radio. In a blip
of a radar screen, she disappeared, and she vanished, And literally,
about a couple of minutes before that, the third mate
(40:27):
on the Anderson was communicating with Captain Sorley and the Fitzgerald,
and he says, by the way, how are you making out?
And he says, well, we're holding her own. We're going
along like an old shoe. And literally, in a blip
of a raidar screen a couple of minutes later, she vanished.
That's how fast she sank. That twenty nine souls lost.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
And am I correct in believing that still there has
not been one body recovered from that.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
From that sinking, they say Lake Superior never gives up
her dad. I think at one point they've claimed somebody
a diver claimed that they saw some kind of body.
I don't know conclusively on that, and to answer your
question at the beginning of the question of the Fitzgerald,
they still conclusively don't know what caused her to think
because the bottle is in twenty four feet of the
(41:13):
muck of the bottom of the Lake Superior. They did
look at the stern, they couldn't find any conclusiveness if
there was any grounding. In the middle of the ship
is just a debris field. There's about two hundred feet
which is a garm up mess. It's it's just a
huge debris field. But the bow is in twenty four
(41:36):
feet of the lake's floor, so we'll never know. And
I don't see how that's going to change. I don't think,
you know, it's considered its pretty much an underwater grave
at this point, and out of respect for the families
and the people that lost their lives that night and
I think gratefully, so it just remained that. And you
remain that.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
One out of your thirty six idea productions that you've done,
which is the most.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Popular for me, the Fitzgerald, and I have to know
on the website Edmon Fitzgerald dot com, so like there
could be part of that, but that's sort of the
Titanic of the Great Lakes, if you will. Now, our
Titanic is newer, but for I'm still I have a lot.
I do a lot with the Great Lakes. We've done
haunted tales of the Great Lakes and haunted lighthouses of
(42:17):
the Great Lakes. They did ghostly lighthouses in North America.
We did Great Lakes shipwreck disasters, you know. So we
got a lot of Great Lake things going on. A
rob So for us, the the the the Edna Fitzgerald.
We have the em Fitzgerald Anthology, which has the four
to one hour DVDs, and we have the Wreck of
the Edna Fitzgerald and the Edvin Fitzgerald Past and Present.
(42:39):
Our latest one is the Edmina Fitzgerald Controversy, and we
have a two pack right now. If you go to
either one of our websites or that'll link, we can
get the New Titanic and the Edmin Fitzgerald Controversy. That's
a pretty popular one. But for us, the for us,
the Titanic isn't as popular as the fitz Gerald. The
(43:00):
Fitzgerald is a the Titanic of the Great Lakes, if.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
You will, rob.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
But we specialize a little bit more in the Great Lakes,
so there could be some of that. And there's been
an awful lot of saturation on the Titanic, obviously with
one hundred year anniversary and since the movie thirteen years
ago also.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
And of course it's coming back out now in theater
in three D three D.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
It was this release earlier this month. Yeah, so I
haven't had a chance to see that. I've been a
little busy, busy boy here doing some interviews.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
That's great. I got about two minutes before my next break.
Why did you get involved in shipwrecks land lighthouses?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
My late father used to always tell me about the
Titanic and the Andrea Doria. I grew up on the
Great Lakes. I grew up between Chicago, Milwaukee and Lake Michigan,
and there was a shipwreck called the Essays Wisconsin at
sank Off Kenosha, Wisconsin, and he used to always film
me with these stories about that. And I started making
films many years ago, and I did this documentary as
(43:58):
a labor of love on the Wisconsin and the thing.
There was a lot of interest in it, and I
proceeded to make more and more of them, and my
fifth one was on the first one was the Mystery
of the Edma Fitzgerald, the first fifth yer Old one,
it was my fifth documentary, and shipwrecks, and then we
started doing more and more of them, and then we thought, well,
let's try some lighthouses, because there's some fascinating stories about lighthouses.
(44:21):
So we did that, and then we sort of went
back to the ships and then here the crown Jewel
for us is obviously the next one was you know,
we did the Andrea Doria there, but the Titanic that
was you know, that's that's the one, you know. And
here we are, over twenty years later, still trucking along.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Stand by you and I have to take our final
break for this our ex own nation. We're talking to
Mark Gumbinger. Here's the website www dot Titanic Disaster DVD
dot com. That's Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. When we
come back. Got about four and a half minutes when
we come back, so well, we're going to ask Mark
(44:58):
about haunted life houses. Why not? This is the accellal
place where people dare to believe and dare to be heard.
Mark Gumbinger and I will be back on the other
side of this commercial break as we continue from our
studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Don't go away?
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four three one. Rob McConnell here presenting an overview for
Nicholas Paul Jenny's, author of a fascinating book Amen. It
(48:43):
presents facts revealed by Egyptologists, facts that enable us to
understand why Amen is the beginning of creation of God.
It provides recommendations for religisleaders of the major religions to
unify their beliefs and teach the Word of God, love
one another. Amen informs people how mankind conceived God. It
(49:04):
was the Egyptians that developed the concepts of a soul,
a hereafter and son of God. And finally, after the
worship of many gods, they conceived the belief in one
universal God, the maker of all there is. For more information,
visit www Dot Future of God Amen dot com. That's
(49:26):
www Dot Future of God Amen dot com.
Speaker 10 (49:49):
The legend lives on from the chibundown of the big
mag they called get Higumi. It is never gives up.
He did when the skies of November turned gloomy with
the Lord of iron Old when he's six thousand times
(50:12):
more than the Edmunds, it's teri way empty.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
That good ship and Mark. You and I have been
talking about the Andre Dory, talked about the Edmund Fitzgerald
has sung there by Gordon Lightfoot, and we also talked about,
of course the Titanic. But you've also done DVDs and
productions on haunted lighthouses, and in your opinion, where is
the most haunted lighthouse in the Great Lakes.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Oh, there's so many of them. You know, people seem
to gravitate toward lighthousing in general. I think it's there.
You know, they're really for us. They're almost are North
America and Canada and the United States. They're really the
castles that we have here where Europe has their castles. Yeah,
to us, I think Canada and the Great Lakes and
(51:00):
you know, in our areas, and they are our castles.
And every lighthouse has a story, and virtually every lighthouse
has a haunted story. Now are they true or not?
They might be or they might not be. A lot
of them are fun, you know, fun to talk about.
There's a one of the big ones that come to
(51:22):
mind for me is the old Prescottle lighthouse up and
Lake her On. It continues to turn its lights on
for passing ships, even though the wiring to the lamp
has been removed. There was an incident where somebody was
out in the fog one night and they were summons
back to shore from the light of the old lighthouse.
(51:44):
But the coastguard came in and cut out all the
electric to the lights. But somehow, some way, and there's
been hundreds of documentations that the light was on. How
do you explain something like that. There's the one in
in Gibraltar, but Gibeltar a lighthouse in Canada where there
(52:04):
was a story of a murdered beer maker and the
uh he's allegedly still looking for his murderers. He was
a he was a lighthouse tender keeper and uh he
liked making his own beer and he had some like
a little bar one night and some people came back
and I think he cut him off from drinking, and
he came back and killed him. So he's supposedly seen
(52:26):
still looking for his murders that night. There's just so many.
But if you if you go to like our Adne
Fitzgerial dot com. You can click on a real neat
one is Haunted Lighthouses of the Great Lakes, and we
also have one called ghost Ghostly Lighthouses of North America.
There are a lot of fun and uh, but we're
really proud of the new Titanic and the and the
admin Fitzgerald. Of course there's another another classic that that
(52:50):
lives on.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
As all was Mark Gregg talking to you. Continued success
and I'll look forward to the next time you and
I chat here in the xcell. Once again, give her
listeners your websites please sure you can.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Go to a Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. It's www
dot Titanic dvddisaster dot com. And that'll also link you
to our Edmond Fitzgerald dot com. It's www dot Edmund
Fitzgerald dot com.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Mark, take care of yourself, look forward to the next
time we meet. Thanks, rob bye bye. Now, well that's
it x O nation. Another great four hours, and of course,
if you'd like further information on Mark Gumbinger, you can
go to Edmund Fitzgerald dot com or Titanic Disaster DVD
dot com. That's Titanic Disaster DVD dot com Well, there
(53:43):
we go, another show another four hours. Some of our
affiliates are going to carry us another four hours. However,
if your affiliate doesn't and you'd still like to listen
to the show, you can listen to us online seven
days wait, three hundred and sixty five days of the year,
twenty four hours a day at www dot xzonetv dot com.
So until the next time we meet, take care of
(54:04):
each other. We are our brother's keeper, and smile. It
doesn't hurt, and you're going to make somebody's day better
than it was before. So until tomorrow, ex Zone Nation,
always keep your eyes to the sky and your heart
to the light. Good night, Now, I know what's and
(54:25):
take me home.
Speaker 6 (54:27):
I know wars.
Speaker 10 (54:30):
Take me home.
Speaker 9 (54:32):
I knows.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Save me
This is the Exzone Broadcast Network, broadcasting worldwide on broadcast
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Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, join me Rob
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We'll investigate UFOs, ghosts, alien abductions, demonic possession, psychic phenomenon, angels,
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Speaker 5 (02:48):
The Xzone Radio and TV Show is largely an opinion
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Speaker 6 (03:17):
All hid.
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Welcome to the X Zone, a place where fact is
fiction and fiction is reality. Now here's your host Rob
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I see.
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Fee.
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That is howline no good cross the distance and space
speakiners you have consu show.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Welcome back every one. This is the X Own. My
name is Rob McConnell. We're coming to you from our
studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, worldwide toll free one eight
hundred and six ten seven zero three five email Xon
at Xon Radio TV dot com, on MSN messenger, Xon
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(04:50):
dot Xon Radio tv dot com. Don't forget the let
me see the Bodysoul Spirit Expo that's being held at
the International Center in Toronto, sixty nine hundred Airport Road
in Mississaka, right across from Pearson International Airport. Their website
www dot Bodysoul Spiritexpo dot com. We're gonna be talking
(05:13):
to Mark Gumbinger this hour. We're gonna be talking to
him about the Titanic, The Titanic Disaster now. He is
a marine historian, is a media mainstay, having appeared on
countless radio shows and every major TV network. His latest DVD,
The Titanic Disaster is just one of the thirty six
(05:34):
acclaimed shipwreck and Lighthouse programs he's researched and produced over
the past twenty years, including the Andrea Dori and of
course the Edmind Fitzgerald and joining me now is Mark Gumbinger.
And Mark, welcome back to the xcell and nice having
you with us.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Rup. I have to ask you this, what is the
attraction every year to the Titanic.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It seems to be, you know, it's really the mother
of all shipwrecks. You know, here we are one hundred
years ago this month with Titanic sink, and you know,
two hundred years from now, long after we're coming gone,
people will be talking about it in three hundred years.
I think it's a story. It's a comedy of errors. Rob.
You have this, this beautiful ship on our maiden voyage,
(06:21):
which started out virtually unsinkable, and somewhere along the way
in the in the media hype and everything that virtually
was dropped and then it was on the unsinkable ship
and it was almost like they were tempting fate in
God that there's no you know, you're a beautiful vessel,
you know it is. It is mind boggling here your
maiden voyage on eight hundred and eighty two and a
(06:42):
half footship, fifty three thousand tons, you know, carrying over
two thousand people. And it was like a slice of
the world in a time capsule.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You had it.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It was a little city. You had your first class millionaires,
you had your second class, then you had your steerage,
your third class. And if just maybe one or two
of these, like numerous things would have changed, the history
would have been changed, and the ship probably wuldn't have
sank it all, and it probably would have gone on
to a twenty or thirty five year career, very similar
(07:16):
to the sister ship, the Olympic, which is yet even
another thing that caused the Titanic to be in the
wrong place at the wrong time, because the two sister ships,
the Olympic and the Titanic, were being built side by side,
and when the Olympic was just a little bit ahead
of the Titanic went out on her sea trials. She
ended up colliding with another ship of German naval vessel
(07:39):
and they had to bring her back and work on her.
She was injured and she had a hole in her
but not enough to make her sink, and they took
all the men off the Titanic rob and they put
her all back over on the Olympic to finish that up.
So it pushed the Titanic back another twenty days. From
her leaving Southampton, England, they head to New York, which
actually caused that iceber to come farther south. And you know,
(08:03):
we know the rest from there.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah. You know, having done all the research on so
many res and lighthouses, is there a common thread or
common element that you've been able to discover when it
comes to a shipwreck.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You know, more often than not, it's it's a combination
of this of human error along with the environment.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
All right, stand by, Mark, I'm sorry we have to
go to our commercial break. Will be right back. Explanation.
Mark Gumbinger is my special guest. The website is www
Dot Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. That's www Dot Titanic
Disaster DVD dot com. Mark and I will be back
after this two minute break. As the x own continues
(08:47):
from our studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Don't go away.
(09:12):
Rob McConnell here presenting an overview for Nicholas Paul Jennix,
author of a fascinating book Amen. It presents facts revealed
by Egyptologists, facts that enable us to understand why Amen
is the beginning of creation of God. It provides recommendations
for religis leaders of the major religions to unify their
(09:32):
beliefs and teach the Word of God, love one another.
Amen informs people how mankind conceived God. It was the
Egyptians that developed the concepts of a soul, a hereafter,
and son of God, and finally, after the worship of
many gods, they conceived the belief in one universal God,
(09:52):
the maker of all there is. For more information, visit
www dot Future of God Amen. That's www dot Future
of God Amen dot com. Whether you're a skeptic or
(10:21):
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Show coming soon to Screens of all sizes. On the
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The xone TV Show with Yours truly, Rob McConnell www.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Dot xzonetv dot com.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Is a realmar McConnell media company and airplane media production. Fartlets, fartlings, pongis,
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Speaker 8 (12:34):
But it's not about it down the paradise that these
do not vote when this right, you said away find thebuility.
Oh can scandal American? Just you wait and see be.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
Me. It's not.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Welcome back everyone. Mark Gumbinger is my special guest. His
website is www dot Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. That's
Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. Mark. What are some of
the chains of events that actually led to the demise
of the Titanic.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
There were so many rob It started out Bruce Ismay.
He was the head of the White Star Lines. He
was the big you know, the big, the big hancho.
Him and Lord Pierry, uh uh, Perry, I should say,
back in like nineteen oh seven came up with the
brainchild idea of let's build three massive ships, larger and
more beautiful than their competition. The Canard Line was their
(13:47):
main competition for White Star Lines, and they had large,
beautiful ships also, but they wanted to really blow you know,
really really make a statement, blow them out of the water,
so to speak. So they were going to build the Olympic,
the Titanic, and the Gaika. Well they started with the
Olympic and the Titanic, and then after they lost the Titanic,
they thought that Gigantic was too ostentatious, so they pulled
(14:08):
back in the reins and they call it the Britanic instead.
So anyway, the chain of events. Bruce Ismay, they were
originally going to have sixty four lifeboats on the Titanic,
but he thought, well, you know, it takes up a
lot of deck space in the promenade deck up in
first class, and this ship's virtually unsinkable. We're not. You know,
(14:30):
having all these lifeboats is like a bad commercial, like,
you know, what do we need these lifeboats for? So
let's instead of having sixty four, let's cut back to
thirty two. We're never going to need all those lifeboats.
And besides, we'll still be compliant because also a compliance
really for back then, but they weren't making ships eight
hundred and eighty two feet. Most ships were three four
(14:50):
hundred feet long. Back then. The compliance was sixteen lifeboats.
And then they started thinking, well, you know, we don't
really need thirty two lifeboats, let's just make it sixteen.
But what we'll do is we'll put in an additional
four collapsible lifeboats, and not only will be compliant, but
we'll have a four additional extra lifeboats that we don't
even need, just for extra safety precaution. So we'll have
(15:12):
even more deck space and promenade space for the first
class passengers. And this will just be wonderful. So you know,
the real villain, if you have to point a finger,
is Bruce's man. Then when they were designing her, they
cheapened her up. They used a lower class rivet up
in the front where the curve of the ship comes
(15:33):
down ironically right where the iceberg met the ship. They
went from like a third class rivet to a fourth
class which had less steel, a more slag in it,
and it wouldn't withhold as well. Plus the Titanic. It
was that old brittle steel anyhow, that the plates there
were only about an inch thick. And when it became
(15:56):
very cold and became very brittle, and in this case
you hear, you have an example of twenty eight degree
water temperature that night, just and you can only imagine hypothermia.
It would you would, you would be unconscious in a
matter of minutes and maybe sufferre harder attack and be
completely dead in twenty to thirty minutes. It's just that fast.
(16:17):
It's just that rapid. And the poor people you can
only imagine you know, sticking, you know, immersing your even
in your hand in that water, you know, for for
a few seconds. You imagine imagine having to submerge your
whole body into that and instantly, you know, the only
good thing about it is that people didn't suffer that
long because they were so numb so fast, but you know,
(16:39):
consciousness was just so rapid. But not getting back to
the chain of events. So now you have from sixty
four to sixteen lifeboats and four collapsibles. They had the
cheaper rivet, so when they hit the iceberg, that rivet
popped off and sheered off, and if it was maybe
the better class rivet, it might have withheld the impact
(17:02):
of the iceberg. The other thing is they were the
captain was sailing with Bruce Ismay was on board, and
they think his just his presence alone caused the captain
to be schlepping along and about twenty five miles an
hour about twenty three knots wasn't quite a maximum speed
but close. I think she was about twenty six twenty
(17:23):
seven was maximum on the Titanic that night, and she
was still going along at twenty five. There were several
iceberg warnings that were coming at him that some which
made it to the captain and some wouldn't which didn't
that said, hey, there's icebergs that ahead. There were several
other ships in the area, including the California, that sent
(17:44):
them an iceberg warning about an hour and ten minutes
before she sank. But the Marconi wireless radio operator didn't
work for Titanic. They worked for their own company that
was leased inside the Titanic. Never, they think, never they
airard that last Iceberg warning, never made it up to
the bridge to warn, to warn of that. In fact,
(18:05):
they not only did it not reach the bridge. The
wireless operator of the Titanic on the Marconi radio radio
back this Californian and said, shut up, leave us alone.
We're trying to get messages out, because I think they
were having problems with the radio earlier and they were
trying to get these these messages. They had these all
these millionaires like John Aster. They were sending these very
(18:25):
expensive messages to New York saying, hey, we're going to
be arriving you know such and such time, and sending
these great messages. That's how they made their money. They
didn't really make money by hearing hearing the Iceberg warings.
So I was just again this comedy of errors, Rob.
So then this was about I think that was around
ten thirty at night and eleven thirty nine they saw
(18:48):
the Iceberg, and can you imagine this, Rob. Here you
have the gentleman, the lookout up in the crow's nests.
They didn't have the binoculars with them. They didn't either.
They were left in Southampton, England, or they were down
in a locker somewhere. Wherever they were, they were misplaced.
They weren't where they should have been up the crows nest,
(19:09):
so they were running up there basically with their naked eye.
And then on top of everything else, Rob it's a
moonless night, so you don't have any ambient light from
the moon, and it was a flat, dead calm night,
so you didn't have any frothing up on the iceberg,
where if there was a little bit of a chop
you could see the iceberg a lot center just you know,
(19:31):
just a comedy of their.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
One thing right after the next. Why did they think
that the Titanic was unsinkable, especially if they used second
quality Rivet's you know metal that was only a sheet
metal that was only an inch wide. What gave them
the idea that this ship was unsinkable?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
The well, these iron plates are about an inch thick.
They had the watertight compartments, but they didn't go all
the way up to the top of the top of
the ship. They only went up like I think twelve
fifteen feet she measured from the from the bottom up.
They didn't go all the way up to the to
the to the top where so what happened when she
(20:14):
pierced the side of the iceberg rob two hundred and
ninety nine feet was partially perfed where the rivets were
sheared off and allowed all that water to come in
and sort of peeled back those those plates. And they
figured that if anything ever happened to the ship, that
one or two of those compartments would fill up, but
(20:34):
the pumps could keep up with her long enough for
another ship to come by. And they never thought in
their wildest dreams, under normal circumstances, that those rivets had
to be as strong as those other ones. You know,
it just happened, you know that that that area of
the ship where they curved up from from the keel,
right where it curved up by the bow over there,
(20:56):
right where she happened to hit the iceberg, was really
one of her weaker points. You know, who would have
thunk if it was under normal circumstances, those Class four
rivets would have would have held up for fifty years
and it would never have been an issue. So it
was sort of an engineering staff who, you know. And
then what they later did on the Olympic after the
Titanic sink. They they came. They didn't even know about
(21:17):
the rivets back then. But what they did do is
bring the bulkheads up higher and add more lifeboats, so
they learned from that.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Anyhow, how long did it actually take the Titanic to
sink from the time she hit the iceberg until the
time she went right under.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
About two hours and forty minutes. And the coward bruces May.
He got on the last collapsible lifeboat and he got
there was there was a heck to pay because he
the Senate Inquiry in New York gave him like a
thousand questions, and under peer pressure, he later left the
(21:55):
White Star. And he never wanted to talk about it
in company, to talk about the Titanic, he would refuse
to talk about it in his presence. I mean he uh,
you know, the the designer, the captain Edwards, they went
down with the ship. Bruce says, May got on that
last lifebook.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Unreal. He was a college He was a villain in
this in today's in today's money, how much would the
first class ticket would have cost?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
You know, I forget the amoment. I want to say,
I want to say, I was it five thousand dollars. Yeah,
and some of this is going back from my memory
from your body a year ago when we were researching this.
(22:41):
But I can see if it can cross reference.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Oh no, it's okay. I thought I you know, for
some reason, I thought it might have been around five
thousand can edge five thousand dollars in today's currency, But
back then that was a lot of money. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Well, if your John Aster and your millionaire back then,
a millionaire really meant that you were that you were
a million you know, unlike today's inflationary money, a million
dollars back then you could afford, you know, five thousand
dollars to be chump change and be like you and
me would be like five cents.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Would it be fair to say that the Titanic was
doomed before she even hit the water?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Well, in a sense, because the the we had all
this media hype, oh you know, it's virtually unthinkable, and
somewhere along the way the virtual got dropped and it's unsinkable.
Then you had, you know, you had these rivets, and
then you had Bruce's May and these other choices that
we don't need, you know, what they really needed was
(23:43):
a bare minimum. I think if you did the math
with the amount of passengers on board, I think forty
nine if you call it fifty lifeboats should have been
the bear bare minimum for the amount of people on
board that night. But obviously sixty four would have been
about right.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
So how did they get away with it?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Well, you see, back back then, Rob these ships were
two three four hundred feet long and the minimum requirement
was was only sixteen lifeboats. But this is a brand
new age of shipping, where the last that last year
or two they were starting to finally build these supercized ships,
(24:21):
and the Titanic being eight hundred and eighty two and
a half feet long, they should have said, hey, this
should be a minimum. You know, they would have even
doubled the sixteen, you know, had thirty two and then
let's say maybe had another eight or ten collapsibles that
would have been put in it pretty close.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Hey, Mark, you and I have to tell your commercial
break with the news stand by. We'll be right back.
Mark Gumbinger's my special guest exponation Titanic Disaster DVD dot com.
We'll be back after this news break. Don't go away.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
How long will we be.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, Join me Rob
McConnell on the Exone TV Show coming soon to screens
of all sizes. On the x Zone TV Show, We'll
investigate UFOs, ghosts, alien abductions, demonic possession, psychic phenomenon, angels, lake, monsters, Bigfoot,
unsolved mysteries, and all subject matter from within the world
(25:34):
of the paranormal and the science of parapsychology, and much
much more. The x Zone TV Show with yours truly,
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Is a Realmer McConnell media company and Airplaymedia production.
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Speaker 3 (30:06):
Explanation? Mark Gunbinger's are special guests this hour. We're talking
about the Titanic and Mark's got a DVD that is out.
It's called The Titanic disaster and Mark's website is www
dot Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. That's Titanic Disaster DVD
dot com. So looking back as as we can with history,
(30:31):
how have things changed within the sailing industry and what
was attributed to the loss of life on the Titanic
that made it safer for people from that point on.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, first thing, Rob, what they did was they said
the Titanic was obviously sailing way too fast for conditions.
They immediately passed a law that this should be an
equal amount of lifeboat size for the amount of people
on board. And they immediately made those changes to the
(31:04):
sister ship, the Titanic, sister ship, the Olympic, and other
ships that were sailing, and they finally were catching up
with the larger the larger length, and the larger sized vessels.
To be in compliance with those requests. They also passed
a law that you should back back then, they I
think it was around midnight, they've turned the radios off
(31:26):
in the ship. So they passed a law that there
should be a twenty four hour radio communication on board vessels.
And ironically, after they passed that, there was a ship
in the Chicago Harbor the Eastland and it was sort
of a top heavy ship. A couple of years later
and they we did a program on that. You can
(31:47):
go to our website adventit atsterial dot com and look
at that one as well. It links from the Titanic
Disaster DVD dot com. But on the Eastland, they took
a top heavy ship and they took the superstructure, put
reinforced it with concrete, and put additional heavy lifeboats on it.
So when people were boarding in the Chicago River that
(32:07):
morning as a result of this law that was passed
with the Titanic, it made the engineers trying to keep
the ballast level and people were running from one side
of the ship to the other and looking at people
on the shore and waving at them right, and the
ship campsized in the Chicago Harbor and eight hundred and
thirty five people died as a result of this. And
pretty much here you're passing a safety law as a
(32:29):
result of from the lifeboats in the Titanic, and here
you cause another eight hundred and thirty five people indirectly
as a result to die, and which is supposed to
be something for safety. So sometimes you just can't win
with this, but pretty much going too fast for conditions,
not having enough lifeboats, and the radio communication that really
(32:50):
hurt because there was another ship robbed, the California that
was this is the one that that warned the Titanic
about the about the iceberg But when they when the
Marconi operator on the Titanic shot it back, shut up,
leave us alone, turned off the radio and went to
bed about ten, you know, ten thirty quarter eleven that night.
(33:10):
And then an hour later, you know, she came in
contact with the icebergs and they were radioing for help
in an SOS and sparking back with the radio to
the California that that operator went to bed, and then
there was even more. They were launching rockets that night,
and they saw rockets and they even woke up the captain.
(33:32):
But the captain looked and decided, oh, that's nothing, maybe
they're celebrating or whatever, and he went back to bed.
And they didn't hear about it until the next morning.
After the Carpathia, which was like sixty miles away, they
had to seer around six icebergs that night, and they
even modified their the ship's engine, They modified the heat
(33:52):
in the engine so they could gain about another three knots.
But unfortunately they were too late to pick up all
those people because they were they were frozen to death
from hypothermia being in the water from the exposure. Where
the California if they were there was the Senate testimony
in New York. They said that they thought they believed
that if the California would have responded, they could have
(34:15):
probably saved just so many lives. I mean, over fifteen
hundred souls were lost in They run a.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Lot of people, mind you, one loss of life is
too much. However, fifteen hundred people, my lord, I understand.
The people of Halifax, Nova Scotia played a big part
in the aftermath.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yes, there was. They have the cemetery and the tributes,
and they have wonderful remembrances there every year, and they
have the just wonderful cemeteries, and you can see so
much documentation, and there's a museum over there, and it's
(34:54):
sort of really the gateway because there were so many,
so many of the bodies that they it ended up
there as well.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Could this happen again?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yes, and it did, I mean just not too long ago.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Right. The cost of just off the.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Coast of Italy Gone, The Captain the Chicken of the
Sea right now is sort of a little comedy to
a sort of horror trauma thing. But yeah, what you
have what I see now, I've done thirty six documentaries
and just a lot of ships. What I find, more
often than not, there's a human error, so often not
(35:35):
that it isn't spurred on as a result of something
that's out there physically or weather or fog, or maybe
going too fast for conditions or misreading radar. And then
what quite often happens is even if you had enough
lifeboats for the ship where the Titanic sank pretty slowly,
(35:59):
but like even in the case where the Andrea Doria
was in fog and they misread the radar distances and
they ended up having a collision, the list was so
rapid that it often renders half of the lifeboats useless.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Now, the Andrea Dori, if my memory serves me, sank
in the St. Lawrence River.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
No that's you're thinking of the I think that's the
Princess of Ireland. Andrea Doria was off a long island
and fixed and it was ran by the Stockholm that
was outbound to go to Sweden and the Andrea Doria
was a beautiful of the floating palace. The Italian liner
heading in, and that was a fog situation where they
(36:39):
think the I think it was the third mate on
the Stockholm misread the radar guide rings and instead of
like I think, he thought he was twelve or fifteen
miles away from the Andrea Dooria when I think he
was three or six. And then they misread the pip
on the radar screen and they both zigged and zagged
(37:01):
at the wrong time and they literally hit each other.
And back then they didn't have the shipping lanes like
they do today. It was like a free for all.
There was a lot more ships back there and back
in the fifties and there even today because now the
ships are even bigger, But there was no shipping lanes
back then. So you know, you think about when we're
driving down the freeway, you know you have the north
(37:22):
and south bound lanes east or west. This this was
just you just went where you went kind of thing.
Back then. They weren't that up on safety as much
as they should have been back then, and that was
another thing they learned from Andrea Doria that you know,
we should we should put install have it having shipping
lanes where everybody stays in their own zone.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
The last time you were on Mark, we talked about
the Edmund Fitzgerald. Has anything happened since then? Has has
there been a a an actual concrete finding on what
happened to the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
You know, I don't think we'll ever finding anything conclusive. Rob.
Nothing's really changed since my interview last was probably about
maybe two years ago. I think I was done what happened?
What I reading in between the lines, and I interviewed
authors and experts and captains of the coast I even
interviewed the captain of the Marine Board Investigation that conducted
(38:20):
the investigation for the Coast Guard.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
And.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
The Coast Guard thinks that she had faulty hatch covered
gaskets which would allow thousands of gallons of water a
minute to come in. There was a huge freshwater hurricane
that night. There was thirty thirty five foot waves, some
largest waves that are capable of Lake Superior that night.
And now we're talking to Great Lakes, the Great Lakes,
and Lake Superior especially has a wave that will just
(38:47):
chop your ship to death. Where the ocean has these
big swales and the separation, but the Great Lakes and
Lake Superior, the distance between the waves is so much shorter.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Is that what they call the three sisters?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, there was three sisters also. That's that was a
that was that mentioned that a larger wave than normal
came by in in succession of three. Captain Bernie Cooper
testified that he thought there was a much larger wave
that came by and thought that that caught up to her.
The most popular theory that from all the research that
(39:23):
I later believe in which I first thought maybe the
Coastguard was right with the faulty hatch cover gaskets, is
that she touched on a shoal near Caribell Island, and
most sailors will believe that she grounded and both of
her radar units were out, and if she bottomed out,
she could have opened up some water below her waterline.
(39:44):
And she was carrying this tactannied iron ore rob and
this this ore just absorbs like twenty five thirty percent
of its weight and water and the type and in
the fits case, the Fitzgerald only had a center drain,
so she didn't have a right or left or arbord
report drainage system. All that water had to go down
the middle of the ship all the way back to
(40:05):
the rose box in the back, and that that would
be pumped out, and her pumps were on, and she
did have a starboard list, and literally, in a blip
of a radar screen, rob the captain McSorley, he had
a ship to shore, a wireless radio. In a blip
of a radar screen, she disappeared, and she vanished, And literally,
about a couple of minutes before that, the third mate
(40:27):
on the Anderson was communicating with Captain Sorley and the Fitzgerald,
and he says, by the way, how are you making out?
And he says, well, we're holding her own. We're going
along like an old shoe. And literally, in a blip
of a raidar screen a couple of minutes later, she vanished.
That's how fast she sank. That twenty nine souls lost.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
And am I correct in believing that still there has
not been one body recovered from that.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
From that sinking, they say Lake Superior never gives up
her dad. I think at one point they've claimed somebody
a diver claimed that they saw some kind of body.
I don't know conclusively on that, and to answer your
question at the beginning of the question of the Fitzgerald,
they still conclusively don't know what caused her to think
because the bottle is in twenty four feet of the
(41:13):
muck of the bottom of the Lake Superior. They did
look at the stern, they couldn't find any conclusiveness if
there was any grounding. In the middle of the ship
is just a debris field. There's about two hundred feet
which is a garm up mess. It's it's just a
huge debris field. But the bow is in twenty four
(41:36):
feet of the lake's floor, so we'll never know. And
I don't see how that's going to change. I don't think,
you know, it's considered its pretty much an underwater grave
at this point, and out of respect for the families
and the people that lost their lives that night and
I think gratefully, so it just remained that. And you
remain that.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
One out of your thirty six idea productions that you've done,
which is the most.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Popular for me, the Fitzgerald, and I have to know
on the website Edmon Fitzgerald dot com, so like there
could be part of that, but that's sort of the
Titanic of the Great Lakes, if you will. Now, our
Titanic is newer, but for I'm still I have a lot.
I do a lot with the Great Lakes. We've done
haunted tales of the Great Lakes and haunted lighthouses of
(42:17):
the Great Lakes. They did ghostly lighthouses in North America.
We did Great Lakes shipwreck disasters, you know. So we
got a lot of Great Lake things going on. A
rob So for us, the the the the Edna Fitzgerald.
We have the em Fitzgerald Anthology, which has the four
to one hour DVDs, and we have the Wreck of
the Edna Fitzgerald and the Edvin Fitzgerald Past and Present.
(42:39):
Our latest one is the Edmina Fitzgerald Controversy, and we
have a two pack right now. If you go to
either one of our websites or that'll link, we can
get the New Titanic and the Edmin Fitzgerald Controversy. That's
a pretty popular one. But for us, the for us,
the Titanic isn't as popular as the fitz Gerald. The
(43:00):
Fitzgerald is a the Titanic of the Great Lakes, if.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
You will, rob.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
But we specialize a little bit more in the Great Lakes,
so there could be some of that. And there's been
an awful lot of saturation on the Titanic, obviously with
one hundred year anniversary and since the movie thirteen years
ago also.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
And of course it's coming back out now in theater
in three D three D.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
It was this release earlier this month. Yeah, so I
haven't had a chance to see that. I've been a
little busy, busy boy here doing some interviews.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
That's great. I got about two minutes before my next break.
Why did you get involved in shipwrecks land lighthouses?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
My late father used to always tell me about the
Titanic and the Andrea Doria. I grew up on the
Great Lakes. I grew up between Chicago, Milwaukee and Lake Michigan,
and there was a shipwreck called the Essays Wisconsin at
sank Off Kenosha, Wisconsin, and he used to always film
me with these stories about that. And I started making
films many years ago, and I did this documentary as
(43:58):
a labor of love on the Wisconsin and the thing.
There was a lot of interest in it, and I
proceeded to make more and more of them, and my
fifth one was on the first one was the Mystery
of the Edma Fitzgerald, the first fifth yer Old one,
it was my fifth documentary, and shipwrecks, and then we
started doing more and more of them, and then we thought, well,
let's try some lighthouses, because there's some fascinating stories about lighthouses.
(44:21):
So we did that, and then we sort of went
back to the ships and then here the crown Jewel
for us is obviously the next one was you know,
we did the Andrea Doria there, but the Titanic that
was you know, that's that's the one, you know. And
here we are, over twenty years later, still trucking along.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Stand by you and I have to take our final
break for this our ex own nation. We're talking to
Mark Gumbinger. Here's the website www dot Titanic Disaster DVD
dot com. That's Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. When we
come back. Got about four and a half minutes when
we come back, so well, we're going to ask Mark
(44:58):
about haunted life houses. Why not? This is the accellal
place where people dare to believe and dare to be heard.
Mark Gumbinger and I will be back on the other
side of this commercial break as we continue from our
studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Don't go away?
Speaker 9 (45:37):
Why annoy a big street, l annoyed and day?
Speaker 3 (45:56):
What if someone told you you could live to be
one and twenty would you believe him? What if he
told you the Bibile guaranteed it. All you needed to
do was follow his rules and buy his products? Would
you do it? What if you invested twenty years of
your life in him? What if he tested his substances
on your child? What if your child became brain damaged
(46:16):
as a result. Meet doctor Tyler Bellknapp, a fast talking
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psychoactive substances from genetically modified plants developed in his very
(46:39):
own secret lab. No wonder his customers can stop using them.
Tyler bell Knapp will stop at nothing to keep his
edge in the market, even if it means experimenting on children.
Chasing one twenty a story of food, faith, fraud and
the pursuit of Longevity, a novel from the pen of
political cartoonist Monty Wolverton, is an easy and entertaining read,
(47:00):
full of rich characters and intrigue. It hits home in
a world filled with all kinds of hucksterism and offers
a glimpse of what can happen when GMO technology falls
into the wrong hands. Chasing one twenty by Monty Wolverton.
Get your copy today at www dot PTM dot org,
forward slash one two zero, or on Amazon dot com.
(47:35):
When Demystified. Shamanism is an ancient science delving into the
quantum level of life. Understanding and implementing basic shamanic principles
can empower the individual to heal, manifest, and evolve in
these rapidly changing times. Path Home Shamanic Art School is
a one of a kind Colorado State certified occupational school
(47:55):
training and certifying shamanic practitioners and teachers. We also train
individuals simply interested in empowering and enriching their lives through shamanism.
PATHOLMES certification classes are in a week long block format,
enabling national and international students to participate. We also provide
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(48:19):
Discover all you can be enter the limitless world of
shamanism today. For more information, visit find your pathhome dot
com or call three zero three seven seven five three
four three one. Rob McConnell here presenting an overview for
Nicholas Paul Jenny's, author of a fascinating book Amen. It
(48:43):
presents facts revealed by Egyptologists, facts that enable us to
understand why Amen is the beginning of creation of God.
It provides recommendations for religisleaders of the major religions to
unify their beliefs and teach the Word of God, love
one another. Amen informs people how mankind conceived God. It
(49:04):
was the Egyptians that developed the concepts of a soul,
a hereafter and son of God. And finally, after the
worship of many gods, they conceived the belief in one
universal God, the maker of all there is. For more information,
visit www Dot Future of God Amen dot com. That's
(49:26):
www Dot Future of God Amen dot com.
Speaker 10 (49:49):
The legend lives on from the chibundown of the big
mag they called get Higumi. It is never gives up.
He did when the skies of November turned gloomy with
the Lord of iron Old when he's six thousand times
(50:12):
more than the Edmunds, it's teri way empty.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
That good ship and Mark. You and I have been
talking about the Andre Dory, talked about the Edmund Fitzgerald
has sung there by Gordon Lightfoot, and we also talked about,
of course the Titanic. But you've also done DVDs and
productions on haunted lighthouses, and in your opinion, where is
the most haunted lighthouse in the Great Lakes.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Oh, there's so many of them. You know, people seem
to gravitate toward lighthousing in general. I think it's there.
You know, they're really for us. They're almost are North
America and Canada and the United States. They're really the
castles that we have here where Europe has their castles. Yeah,
to us, I think Canada and the Great Lakes and
(51:00):
you know, in our areas, and they are our castles.
And every lighthouse has a story, and virtually every lighthouse
has a haunted story. Now are they true or not?
They might be or they might not be. A lot
of them are fun, you know, fun to talk about.
There's a one of the big ones that come to
(51:22):
mind for me is the old Prescottle lighthouse up and
Lake her On. It continues to turn its lights on
for passing ships, even though the wiring to the lamp
has been removed. There was an incident where somebody was
out in the fog one night and they were summons
back to shore from the light of the old lighthouse.
(51:44):
But the coastguard came in and cut out all the
electric to the lights. But somehow, some way, and there's
been hundreds of documentations that the light was on. How
do you explain something like that. There's the one in
in Gibraltar, but Gibeltar a lighthouse in Canada where there
(52:04):
was a story of a murdered beer maker and the
uh he's allegedly still looking for his murderers. He was
a he was a lighthouse tender keeper and uh he
liked making his own beer and he had some like
a little bar one night and some people came back
and I think he cut him off from drinking, and
he came back and killed him. So he's supposedly seen
(52:26):
still looking for his murders that night. There's just so many.
But if you if you go to like our Adne
Fitzgerial dot com. You can click on a real neat
one is Haunted Lighthouses of the Great Lakes, and we
also have one called ghost Ghostly Lighthouses of North America.
There are a lot of fun and uh, but we're
really proud of the new Titanic and the and the
admin Fitzgerald. Of course there's another another classic that that
(52:50):
lives on.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
As all was Mark Gregg talking to you. Continued success
and I'll look forward to the next time you and
I chat here in the xcell. Once again, give her
listeners your websites please sure you can.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Go to a Titanic Disaster DVD dot com. It's www
dot Titanic dvddisaster dot com. And that'll also link you
to our Edmond Fitzgerald dot com. It's www dot Edmund
Fitzgerald dot com.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Mark, take care of yourself, look forward to the next
time we meet. Thanks, rob bye bye. Now, well that's
it x O nation. Another great four hours, and of course,
if you'd like further information on Mark Gumbinger, you can
go to Edmund Fitzgerald dot com or Titanic Disaster DVD
dot com. That's Titanic Disaster DVD dot com Well, there
(53:43):
we go, another show another four hours. Some of our
affiliates are going to carry us another four hours. However,
if your affiliate doesn't and you'd still like to listen
to the show, you can listen to us online seven
days wait, three hundred and sixty five days of the year,
twenty four hours a day at www dot xzonetv dot com.
So until the next time we meet, take care of
(54:04):
each other. We are our brother's keeper, and smile. It
doesn't hurt, and you're going to make somebody's day better
than it was before. So until tomorrow, ex Zone Nation,
always keep your eyes to the sky and your heart
to the light. Good night, Now, I know what's and
(54:25):
take me home.
Speaker 6 (54:27):
I know wars.
Speaker 10 (54:30):
Take me home.
Speaker 9 (54:32):
I knows.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Save me
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