It's a Brutal Time to Be Even Remotely Intelligent

The United States is experiencing an epidemic of anti-intellectualism. We discuss that and a whole lot more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
an idea.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
The population of atheists this country is going through the.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I
tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not because.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I put my hand on a book and made a wish.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
And working together for a more rational world.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast, hosted by Seth Andrews.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I just ran up here. I've been down making lunch.
Natalie got this meal kit service, and almost every recipe
wants virgin olive oil. I should do a general knowledge
show again because I don't know what virgin virgin extra
virgin olive oil. I don't get it. I don't understand
what's the difference, and I'm too lazy to look it up.

(01:18):
I have been I can't believe I'm telling you this.
I've been medicating my head. Oh that's been a real joy.
So this is the kind of shit that happens when
you get older. It's like watching the fly. David cromenin
Berg's The Fly. Remember, he goes into the teleporter and
he gets gene spliced with the fly, and all of

(01:41):
a sudden things start growing on his body. He's like,
what's that? I don't know. I don't know what this is.
I don't know what this does. So I was all
of a sudden, I was out there and I'm scratching
my head and I felt something. What's that? Natalie said,
you should get it checked out. Now. I'm sure it's nothing.
You should get it checked out. Now, I'm sure it's nothing.

(02:01):
Finally I go get it checked out. It is a
how do I even say it? Attinic caratosis. Okay, well, whatever,
and then the dermatologist says it is pre cancerous. Whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa. Wait a minute, wait a minute, I didn't
hear pre All I heard was cancer, right, it's all

(02:25):
your brain picks up. It's cancer. No, no, no, it's
not cancer. This is a pre cancerous thing. But if
we don't do something with it, one day it might
develop into cancer. Wait, wait a minute. Later, all I
hear is cancer. It's funny how your brain works. I'm sorry.
All I heard was the word cancer. No, it's not cancer.

(02:46):
It's no big deal, seth. We'll just freeze it off
and a biopsied it and they sent it off just
to be sure that it wasn't something. And I wrote
this down called squamous sell carcinoma, and it is not.
It is actinic keratosis, which if left untreated, could grow.
And then I've become the fly. So anyway, I uh

(03:10):
just got back from having that frozen off. I've got
this tiny little stinging dot on the top of my head.
It's just one of those wanky old people type things.
It just happens, and it's my own fault. I've spent
decades in the sun without a hat, without a hat,
just stupid, just dumb. And so now I've become a

(03:31):
hat person. Caps on the tennis court, if I'm walking
the dog, I'm wearing a hat. I'm wearing hats all
the time.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
It's a weird. It's like a science fair experiment when
you watch your body changing over the years. Facebook memories
is killing me. Whenever a photograph pops up from just
a few years ago. There was one of Natalie and me.
We had a photo session in the park here in town.
And I'm looking at myself five years ago, twenty twenty.

(03:58):
I don't see one gray hair. I look like I
just emerged from the womb. For Pete's sake. It's just weird.
So then I'm like, well, okay, in five more years,
will I look like the guy at the end of
Indiana Jones three who drank from the wrong grail and
he decayed immediately in real time, and then it's over.

(04:20):
I don't know. These are the kinds of questions I've
been asking myself. I've been shopping this.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
You know.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
I don't love Christmas, but I do buy a few gifts,
and my buddy Corey and I do gag gifts for
each other every season. Just something dumb. I mean, we'll
see it throughout the year. Something will pop up and
I'll go and I'll buy it, and then I'll just
keep it for months in my office until December rolls around,

(04:51):
and then I'll send it down to Dallas where he lives,
and go hey, and it could be anything. I remember
one year I got him. It's a helicopter, one of
those RC remote control helicopters. It's shaped like a four
letter word. It's just the word fuck. And when you

(05:12):
put batteries in it and you grab the remote and
it goes airborne, then you now have a flying fuck.
So I've given you a flying fuck, Cory. I just
thought it was dumb. It was so based in juvenile
I laughed my ass off. And he still has this
flying fuck and it flies around his office and I
get videos from time to time. He gave me a

(05:33):
hell Raisor cube one year Lament configuration. It was awesome.
It was awesome. I still have it on my shelf
back here. Star Trek gifts. We love good Star Trek gifts.
But I have been shopping, so let me for those
who were happen to be watching on screen. I've been
looking at options here. I have a vampire tears candle.

(05:58):
Apparently when you light it, it's all black and it's
very goth looking, or gothic is a better way of
saying it. When it burns, apparently it burns blood because
the interior wax is a crimson red. Well, that's kind
of a cool gift. So I thought about, well, you know,
he's kind of dark, he's very halloweeny. Would he like that?

(06:19):
I found the Keanu Reeves John Wick Jesus candle. So
it's Christ with that typical white Jesus pose, but it's
John Wick's head. It was awesome. That's an option. I
just made a note of a couple of these. There
are the vinyl coasters. This is right up my alley

(06:43):
where instead of just the standard coasters for your drink
on a table, these look like little forty five vinyl albums.
And I guess the case for them is a record player.
Looks like a record player, complete with a needle, stylust whatever.
It's got the arm and everything. Well, I thought that's
anti skid vinyl record coasters. That sounds like it might

(07:04):
be a great gift. Light saber chopsticks. We both love
us some sushi.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
Now.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
I've tried the plastic chopsticks in the past, and I
hate them. I'm one of those guys where if I
go into a fancy sushi place and they give you
the ceramic ones of the plastic ones, they're impossible to hold.
Give me the cheap ass, snap open wooden chopsticks any day.
They're easier to manage. But I like the idea light

(07:31):
saber chopsticks. You can go in there and while you're
eating it's like, you know, you can make the noises
with your mouth. What else? Did I find? Band aids
that look like hot dogs? Sterile adhesive bandages by Bioswiss.
Why not stick a band aid that looks like food

(07:51):
on your ali? I think that's I like it. This
is a microcloth. It's actually the cleaning cloth that looks
like dirty underwear. My brain would not be able to
get by this because even though I know that when
you pull it out of the package it is it's

(08:12):
a sterile. It's a clean microcloth that you could use
to wipe off the kitchen countertops or whatever. But it's underwear.
It's these dingy, nasty, old school, tidy, whitey men's briefs.
Your brain can't connect the two dots. All you see
is dirty underwear. You know in your mind it is

(08:33):
not just one of those things. There is the dumpster
fire Christmas ornament. It says everything's fine, little green dumpster
with plastic flame coming out of the top. Anyway, that's
the kind of thing that I have been looking at.
If you have a gag gift idea, stick it in
the comment section because I would love to know what

(08:56):
that is. What else is happening in your world, but
US is on your mind, by the way I am.
And by the time this goes out, it will have
already aired, but it will be listed as a recent
show on the Line YouTube channel. And if you haven't
subscribed to the Line, you really should do so. It
is an amazing channel where they're well, you know, a

(09:19):
lot of the shows are about education. There's a lot
of science, communication advocacy. Humanism is a recurrent theme, but
especially on the Sunday shows, the two o'clock The Line
Sunday Show and then the Line after Dark, it is
talking to theists who are dialing in to prove their God.

(09:40):
I am working on. I can't guarantee it's going to happen,
but I am working on and getting pretty close to
solidifying an actual tour date with Forrest Valci, Gut, Sick Gibbon,
and myself in Tulsa, Oklahoma, probably the first Saturday in

(10:02):
March of twenty twenty six. And we've been wanting to
do something because we all live in relatively close proximity.
We just thought it just makes sense. Plus when we
get on stage, the clock flies and everybody has a
good time and a great portion of whatever this event
would be would be audience participation. And so I'm working

(10:23):
through a venue and I'm looking at ensuring the event
and how much is that going to cost, and then
the logistics and the ticket prices and are there, you know,
do the venues and what other requirements food minimums or
something like that. We're not doing food. We're just going
to do the event. My idea is lean and mean
and fun and fast and March maybe March of twenty

(10:47):
twenty six. If that happens, I'm going to make a
big noise about it, put it on the website and
make sure everybody knows. But tomorrow night, as i'm recording,
which is a few days ago, for the recorded audience,
I'm on the line with Forrest Valcai. Three hours of
us hearing people dial in to defend the faith or

(11:08):
talk about whatever, and that's just awesome. My point is this,
if you have not subscribed, the line has a ton
of hosts, and they've been kind enough to invite me
to play along. I don't know if it's because I've
been doing this a while or you know, the I
don't know. They just occasionally have me come in and
if you want to go back and see Forest Valci

(11:30):
and myself in archive. I'm sure it's listed right there
at the top of the feed switchboard. Wide open your
calls on any subject. I would love to talk to you.
I want to be able to roll with those for
at least a half hour without having to stop. Let
me take my short break here and I'll be right back.

(11:54):
So I'm glad you're here. Thank you for listening. We
are talking to our listeners today about whatever is on
their mind. I've got six' one nine dialing in from
not sure. Where, hi what DO i call? You what's your?
Name I'm, Rick, rick appreciate you so, much my. Friend

(12:15):
what's on your?

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Mind i've been sitting on these thoughts for quite a while,
now but it's been five years since the beginning of the.
Pandemic and during that time it was twenty twenty and
the pandemic got. Going and by the end of the,
year In december, fourteenth my daughter CONTRACTED covid and she

(12:37):
was perfectly, healthy and she ended up succumbing after a.
Week suddenly she dropped over. Dead And i've never told
this story to, anybody, REALLY i, Mean i've been dealing
with grief ever, since BUT i thought it was, relevant
SO i thought i'd call in and share a little
bit of it with.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
You, Well i'm tremendously sorry for what has happened in your.
LIFE a little bit of a tonal. SHIFT i almost
feel bad about bouncing around all of this levity at
the beginning the opening monologue and then segueing into a
very serious subject and a compelling, Call BUT i think
it is something worth talking. About you lost your, daughter

(13:19):
how long?

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Ago, well it's been five years, now Come december. Fourteenth
so it was already like most of the year into
the pandemic in the first, year and things ramped up
as far as a lot of people were, DYING a
lot of typically older people were dying and people that
had pre existing. Conditions but my, daughter she was actually

(13:41):
the healthiest one in our, household and she was twenty,
three and she CONTRACTED covid while she was Visiting, florida
and she got, back she got diagnosed with it and
was just at home six for a week and she
just after a week she just over dead suddenly and

(14:02):
go to the hospital and she was just, gone this
sudden like.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
That do you encounter people who hear your story and
still discount the danger OF. Covid we had a neighbor
who passed. Away we had somebody at one of the
clubs nearby that passed, away AND i remember telling the
story that they had, died that their families were, Grieving
and yet many of, them those who still didn't believe

(14:30):
THAT covid nineteen was anything but some sort of a
trumped up control conspiracy by the libs or whatever it,
was or just fake they still didn't buy that it
was truly. Deadly have you run into any of that
given your, Case.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Yeah as some matter of, Fact like there have been
multiple times WHERE i have shared a little bit of
my story with. People on their first reaction was did
she have to ask me if she had preexisting? Conditions
AND i, said, well, now not That i'm aware, Of
and what was. It what's interesting about that, IS i,
mean it doesn't sit well with me WHEN i hear that.

(15:08):
Question and for, one BECAUSE i remember during the, time you,
know this whole uh you, know uh disinformation about wearing
masks and everything was just like really, huge and and
all these parents with their young kids that were in
school were, all oh not the kids breath kick some masks,

(15:28):
off but like they. Don't they didn't realize that anyone
could succumb to, this any age, Person and it happened to,
Us and we were in the, minority of, course uh you,
Know AND i kept very aware of what statistics were
going on at the time people that age and that age.
Category there was only maybe a total of about maybe

(15:50):
eleven hundred people in that first year a year and
a half that. Died, anyway she was one of. Them
and so but it happened to.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Anyone how many people have a pre existing. Condition it's so.
DISMISSIVE i, mean it could be. Anything you could be immuno,
compromised you could have heart, trouble you could have respiratory,
issues it could be Any, NOW i would think most
people probably have some kind of condition of some. Kind
and for the response to first be, well what else

(16:22):
was wrong with? Him really dismisses the danger AND i
think marginalizes, it, minimizes it sort of discounts the very
real trauma that you are going. Through i'm sorry that
that happened to. YOU i can hear obviously in your
voice understandably that all of this is extremely difficult to

(16:44):
talk about and it's very courageous for you to bring
it up. Here did you want other people to understand
the dangers of? It is it a good medicine for
you to be able to tell the? STORY i, mean
tell me what motivated you to dial in.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
Today i'm, Curious, Okay i've been thinking about this for a,
while AND I i can't tell you how incredible it
is to be able to share. This but you, know
during the TIME i was, watching you, know during that first,
year and they WERE i don't, KNOW i don't know
how many people that ended up. Dying at least like

(17:19):
one point two million people ended up, dying and most
of them were immunely, compromised older. People AND i detected
a distinct dismissiveness within people in general about the whole
about the loss that this country was going, through and you,

(17:44):
know as though it was an expendable part of our.
Society older people and people are minimal. Compromised these were
people had lives just like you AND i had every
right to, full happy, lives and yet they get this
disease that was being misinformed about on so many levels

(18:06):
that it was very upsetting to see this happen where
people were just sort of just Saying, okay no big.
Deal they were already old and they were mainly, compromised
so What but the thing, is you, know for, us
it was a reality we were dealing with the reality

(18:26):
is something that could take any of us at any
moment in. Time in our, family we have the three
of us left, now my wife and my daughter AND
I and, afterwards we were still waiting for the vaccine
to come. Out so when the vaccine became, available which
is about a month after my daughter, died we were

(18:49):
very concerned that maybe there was something that we were susceptible,
to and specifically maybe it was a hereditary. Disposition who,
KNOWS i, mean we didn't know anything about the this
moving target of a virus that was going, around and
so we were desperate to get. Vaccinated AND i literally

(19:10):
like my, daughter which she would get in the car
and she would drive be where she, could with the
miles of, us to a location where people were getting,
vaccinated and she would beg and, plead, please you, know
CAN i get? Vaccinated like this happened to us and
we're afraid and, stuff and she would come home heart

(19:31):
broken and it killed me to see, this AND i
couldn't sit back and not take. Action SO i got
up AND i went, out AND i went to the nearest,
location AND i pleaded and begged and. Everything CAN i get?
It you, know and for this reason and. Everything AND

(19:51):
i remember at one point walking unhappily back to my
car through this sparking lot where they were doing the vaccination,
lines and there was there was a news trucks sitting
there with some people just standing around looking for a
story or, whatever AND i, thought for a, moment you,
KNOW i should tell them what my, story you, know

(20:11):
this is, probably but then it was so early in the,
PANDEMIC i really didn't think too much about. It and
then as time went, ON i, thought oh, MAN i
really need to tell this. STORY i, mean you, know
people don't understand that it could happen to. Anyone so, anyway, Really.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
I'm trying to decide whether or NOT i should proceed,
here BUT i. Will and you can tell me if
you want to take the. Baton tell me about your.
Daughter what was she?

Speaker 5 (20:44):
Like?

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Sure oh, wow yeah that's a tough. One but, okay
well she was definitely a special. Child AND i mean
we as parents have those special, children you, know and
she was just one of, them and she was just
she was a golden. Child and she was the one
that you, know was the joy and and you, know

(21:09):
made being a parent an amazing. Thing and she knows well,
loved she loved, people and she just was just one
of those bright shining. Lights like you hear other people
and loose children who have described their children similars being
this bright. Light and it's just so odd to be

(21:29):
in this position THAT i never, thought you, know a
much unimaginable position of you, know having to live the
rest of my life without. Her and and but things
have changed completely. Different LIKE i you, know you asked
me about, Her BUT i MEAN i can go home

(21:50):
AND i can gush all night about and all day
about her and who she was and. Everything BUT i, think,
mmm what now is just like what has happened in
the last five. Years it's like life is totally. Different you,
know grief of losing a child is it's so much

(22:12):
more intense than any other kind of. Grief, now people
grieve in their own way and their own time and so.
Forth BUT i give you not grieving over the loss
of a, child especially one that is you, know a
well loved and loved child that you're connected to and
you have a, relationship especially an adult. Child she was twenty.

(22:34):
Three it.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Ruins.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
You it completely destroys you as a, person and you
have to learn to live with. That you have to
rethhold your life from the ground up and rethink everything
because people will treat you. Different you lose, friends you lose,
family you love. Connections AND i think one of the
THINGS i really wanted to mention most of all was

(23:00):
to have this kind of thing happen during a time
when politics had become so divisive and with the way
things are with misinformation due to largely probably social media
and ease of. That but for that to have happened

(23:21):
at a time of grief like, this it's made it
so much. HARDER i could not grieve. PROPERLY i had
to wait eight months to even have a. MEMORIAL i
couldn't even a grieve properly from that. Loss and people
don't get that. Either we Have trump an office again
for the second, time after sitting on his, laurels you,

(23:44):
know during the first, administration when the pandemic was starting
to really become a, problem and to see that, happen
and then for things to politically become so divided as
a result of all the misinformation and conspiracy series out,
there and now to see him in an office, again

(24:04):
it's like a continuing diamer for, me BECAUSE i honestly
never wanted to be the guy of faith again ON
tv or serious voice, again but here he's from wrecking,
company wrecking our, democracy and it's, like it's like for everybody,
else you, know you can either not pay attention to
what's going on or not have to deal with. Priests

(24:26):
But i've got to deal with, both and it's it's.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Hard to see the man who said that they had
pretty much ARRESTED covid when it, began and then to
dismiss it and then spread disinformation about it in the
wake of such, suffering including and especially. Yours it's you,
know it's like almost like you've you've been dragged back
to the scene of the. Crime i'm so. Sorry, YEAH

(24:52):
i don't know if YOU'RE ds theis, SPIRITUAL i don't
know where you. Fall are you a s?

Speaker 6 (25:00):
PERSON i don't believe In, God, OKAY i MEAN i
consider myself a spiritual person and you, know in, essence
but as far as powerful life, force things like that
power you, know in the universe and stuff like, that
but can't possibly comprehend, Really but, No i'm not A.

(25:22):
Christian I'M i don't believe In, god AND i just
look at that as just a.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Fantasy, Well i'm spending extra time BECAUSE i find this
a compelling conversation as long as you're okay with, this
continuing to speak okay as a non religious. PERSON i
know a lot of people in our. Culture the language
of love that they speak often has religious window dressing on.

(25:49):
It we're praying for, you she's in a better, place
all things work together for, good. Etc did you have
to navigate some of? That i'll admit that much of
that is said with the best of. Intentions people often
often have a good, heart and it's just how they've
been trained to try to show that they love. You
did you navigate some of? That you, know one day

(26:11):
maybe you'll see you again kind of.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Thing?

Speaker 4 (26:13):
Oh, sure you, Know AND i still do to some.
Extent BUT i definitely went through and had to rethink
everything all over again in the ground. Up AND i
can honestly tell YOU I i'm still, back you, know
at square one WHERE i started prior to. That but,
YEAH i. DON'T i. DON'T i don't. Know there's this
whole notion, of you, know of near death experiences That

(26:38):
i've kind of go into a little bit and it's
a beautiful thing to think, about and it's you, know
BUT i just don't. KNOW i don't have enough. INFORMATION i,
mean to take things on faith alone without some evidence or,
NOT i have a really hard time.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
WITH i would think that if and after life, exists
that if you'll pardon the, expression she would move heaven
and earth to find you, anyway, Right so we have
to work with the evidence that we do. Have we
may not see evidence for a heaven or a life
two point, Zero but what was it hitched?

Speaker 4 (27:16):
That you?

Speaker 2 (27:17):
KNOW i rather like, surprises you, know we understand the
attraction of saying one day all the pieces will get
put back together. Again as a secular, person do you
have any advice for anybody else who is navigating? Grief
this is a common subject in this. Culture that's a
really good.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
Question, WELL i would say that grief like this is
a very lonely place to, be and people need to
understand that all we really need as a grieving parent
of a, child all we really need is for people

(27:58):
to show. Up it doesn't matter what you say or
what you don't say as a concern because a lot
of people really don't can't really understand. It and, no
they just have to know to show, up be. There
AND i don't mean be there for a little while or.
WHATEVER i mean really be loyally there, forever because that

(28:20):
grief is, forever is forever, grief and it's unlike can
you have? Here and you know what's. Interesting she Died september,
fourteenth twenty, twenty AND i retired In june the following.
Year on the third Of june twenty twenty, one and
three four days, LATER i had a major heart attack

(28:42):
BECAUSE i had a from WHEN i was in by.
Forties i'm sixty five. Now WHEN i was in my,
FORTIES i had quadrup of blypas surgery and because my
blood pressure was so high as a result of the
stress of, GRIEF i almost died because one of the
grass wore AND i ended up in the hospital and
were able to save. Me and HERE i am. Still
but the point is is that there was so much

(29:06):
going on at that time and the stress was so.
Incredible but now five years, Later i've lost most of my.
Friends i've lost most of my. Family i've got two
siblings who are trumps and, addicts AND i can't talk
TO i just can't have a. Conversation they're Just my

(29:26):
brother feels like as long as he has his ever Nectins,
dash he's. Fine and my sister thinks, that you, Know
biden should be. Shot you, know that's just a kind
of lunacy in the, mindset in these mother and, Mindsets
and and HERE i am not just like the outlier,
here And i'm. Alone i've lost, friends not just because

(29:52):
of the way that they receive and treat, me but
BECAUSE i really don't want to subject them to. ME
i DON'T i don't think it would be. Fair, HONESTLY
i know that may sound, strange but after a while
you start to do these, things you start to realize
that people are better off in some cases without.

Speaker 7 (30:13):
You.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
Well as far as a religious, THING i, NO i,
mean saith is a beautiful. Thing it's a beautiful. Notion
some people can take things on base value easier than,
others AND i just always been one of those that.
Can't AND i need to understand more and have more,
scientific solid. EVIDENCE i think religion provides a beautiful a

(30:40):
beautiful way for people to, cope in a beautiful way
for people to feel like a sense of belonginess connectedness
with other. People but that's just not. Me ever SINCE
i was a, CHILD i was like.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
THAT i have a. SUSPICION i don't want to be
too romantic about, this BUT i don't think it's an
overreach to say that if your daughter was or is looking,
down that she would want you to find joy and
connection and purpose and some good. STUFF i know that

(31:19):
these sounds so empty calorie when you say them out,
loud BUT i THINK i would assume she would want
you to.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Live, no the first thing you should say, that because
you KNOW i have thought about this a lot about
like what would your daughter want for? You of course
she would want all those. Things she would want me
to live the best, life to be, happy to do,
this do, that and so, forth and that's all. Great
but the reality is it's just not that. Way IT'S i, mean,

(31:50):
SURE i think about, that AND i try my best
to implement that, mindset but the fact, Is i'm Just i'm.
Devastated i'm a shell Ofwy ding that died that.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Day it's easy for other people to, say buck, Up.
Camper you KNOW i understand. You it's not like you
can control the shattering of your, life and you're doing
the best you. Can i'd like you if you, Would,
rick when we're, done to browse through the comments THAT
i have just sort of barely been able to keep

(32:23):
up with out of the corner of my, eye because
there is an outpouring of love for. You there's an
outpouring of sympathy and empathy and. Goodness AND i think
there's just a group hog that is happening here in this.
Audience is they hear the sound of your, voice a
desire to make, you at least for the, moment realize
that you are not, alone or that other people get,

(32:43):
you and they grieve with, you even though they didn't
know your daughter. Personally they understand what loss is and
they understand when they hear heartbreak in your, voice and
they want only the best for you and some kind
of path. Forward take a few, minutes when you get a,
few and go back and maybe you'll find some encouragement,
there and just know that you know you've always got

(33:05):
a place, Here, rick for what it is. Worth and
it's extremely courageous to tell your daughter's. STORY i hope
that others carry it with them as, well and remember
to seize the, moments you, know because this is a, finite,
fragile temporary life and you just never, know.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Right, yeah, yeah, WELL i certainly appreciate your opportunity to
get on here and talk about. IT i actually had
not prepared myself for. THIS i just turned on YouTube
and there you, were AND i called.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
In you did go, great you Are you're really, honestly
you're an extremely compelling person to speak, with and it's
my honor to have had you on the, show AND
i thank. You thank you for sharing part of yourself
with all of. Us and we're just hugging you from out. Here,
okay thank, you, Sir thank you.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
AGAIN i appreciate you very.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Much All, right thank, You. Rick take. Care navigate the
loss of a loved one, anyway but the loss of
a child and then to tell that story, here that's pretty.
Remarkable we've done shows in the past on loss and.
Grief maybe we'll have to talk about this again as

(34:18):
we approach the new year or get into twenty twenty.
Six it's you, know it's one of those subjects that
everybody seems to deal. With it's almost, like you, know
when you talk about addiction recovery or someone who has
been you, know is trying to escape or has escaped
a high control, culture whether it's a high control family

(34:38):
or a cult or. WHATEVER i, mean everybody's if it
hasn't touched them, directly they know someone and maybe that's an.
Opportunity maybe we should think about going back and talking
about grief and loss and pointing people to resources that
might support them and devastating time in their. Life i've
Got ben dialing in from eight zero. One thanks for your. Patients,

(35:02):
ben are you, There.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
YES i am. Here it's nice to talk to you
with You seth you. TOO i actually called in before
fifteen years? Ago was?

Speaker 2 (35:11):
THAT i THINK i started the show in twenty, ten
that was the first year and you were a. Caller,
yeah my mind is. BLOWN i suppose you remember what
we talked about after a decade and a, half BUT i.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Do, actually you had a guest on and the subject
was talking about using science to free you from, religion you,
know your mind becoming free because of, science AND i
just wanted to call in and say. That it's like
between your videos and your guest videos that that actually

(35:50):
helped me escape the CULT i was.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
In can you talk about the, cult what it, wants
what it, Did mormonism high control, Is mormonism is shunning.
CULTURE i know JW's are they.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Are, not BUT i still consider them a cult because
they have a lot of other things about them that
are very cult like, specifically you're not allowed to question.
Authority if you criticize any of the, leadership you'll get.
Excommunicated you are required to pay ten percent of your

(36:25):
income to fund Their oh, GOSH i think there's something
like five hundred billion dollar. Religion now it's.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Insane my other wired into businesses all around the. Country
it's an, industry The Mormon, church oh very.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Much.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
So, yes that had to have been a rough. Journey
how you doing, Now, Oh i'm doing.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
AMAZING i found my ground and now you, know still,
Atheist no, need no, feel no reason to go back
to any type of religious. Thinking SOMETIMES i think maybe
they like the idea of heaven or you, know being
able to see your loved ones. Again that appeals to.
Me but THEN i have to remember things THAT i

(37:08):
want and things that are are not always the, same
AND i just have to deal with.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
It did they promise you your own? Planet seems Like
Jimmy snow said you get your own planet In, mormonism
BUT i can't. Recall is It colob or something along those.
LINES i can't.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Remember, oh, okay, Okay i'll get into a little of
the Weird mormonism war. Here So colob IS i guess
the first star in the cosmos that was created By
iloheen Or god The, Father AND i guess his home

(37:46):
is a little planet that goes Around colob that. Star
that's how that. WORKS i. See getting your own, planet,
yes was part of the doctrine WHEN i was growing,
up and THEN i was really shocked to find this.
Out only a few years ago they changed that. Doctrine
so now you don't get your own. Planet what a?

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Ripoff you, know you signed up for your own world
and then they just rip it out from underneath. You
a bait and. Switch i'm offended by THE Lds. Church
how dare? They how dare? They how long have you
been out of The Mormon? Church how many? Years?

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Oh, oh it's fifteen sixteen. YEARS i was having my
doubts about the time you started your, show and it
was your videos and, oh. GOSH i WISH i could
remember the name of your. Guest i'd have to go
hunting through my YouTube history to find him because he
hasn't made videos in. Years but between you and your,

(38:49):
Guest i'd watched your videos and that just LIKE i
was already having, doubts and that just pushed me over the.
Edge was, Like, Okay i've had enough.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
This, wow it blows my. Mind we in the host
chair are desperate to feel like we're not just talking
to ourselves or that it actually, matters and you, know
does it make a difference or AM i just full of?
It and to hear somebody say that that the show
benefited them on their journey is a, massive massive encouragement to.

(39:18):
Me and to know that you've been around for the
last fifteen, YEARS i am just honored beyond. Words so
you called to thank, Me, ben But i'm thinking you right.
Back i'm glad you bust it. Out i'm glad you
found your own. Voice it took tremendous courage to do
what you. Did so hi five from me and my
family to you and.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Yours, OKAY i appreciate, it, Sir all, right keep doing
what you're.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Doing i'll do my, best take, Care we'll see you.
Later you, know it's. Funny after you do this long,
enough a couple of things, Happen And i'm not. Complaining,
Honestly i'm tremendously honored to be able to do WHAT
i do full. Time i've been a full time activist
for over ten years. Now to be able to do
that a, privilege to be able to do what you

(40:03):
love and love what you do right despite the. Challenges
and you, know there's a roller. Coaster anybody who does
any sort of creative work or activist work struggles with life.
Balance you, know you struggle with trying to keep up
with it. All but a couple of things. Happen the
first thing is is you become aware of those people
who sort of dropped off the. Radar he had mentioned

(40:25):
a guest who is no longer making, videos which is.
Fine sometimes you find people will have moved on to
the next chapter of their. Lives so they were an
activist back in two thousand and, nine, ten twenty, twelve
and all of a sudden they stopped making videos and
maybe the life changed caused them to just go. Elsewhere

(40:46):
and you're, like, WELL i wonder whatever happened to. Them
so that's one. Phenomenon the other one is that the
LONGER i have done, THIS i see the next generation
of activists who are kicking. IN i find a little
bit of this systory WHEN i co host on the
line and these young. Guns they're young and hungry and
vibrant and vivacious and so full of, ideas and you,

(41:09):
know these people can stay up twenty hours a day
producing and, creating and you know they're just. Tireless and
they go in AND i find LIKE i could have
fathered all the people on this panel if it's kind
of a kid something that pops, in Like i'm old
enough to have fathered the. PEOPLE i did a conference

(41:31):
a few years ago Called Faithless, forum which had a
bunch of young gun YouTubers, featured and they asked me
to come out and do a presentation AND i was tremendously.
Honored it was a lot of, fun BUT i said
from the, STAGE i almost feel like the elder who
has been asked to come and bless the. Tribe you,
KNOW i bless the you, KNOW i passed my baton

(41:55):
unto thee and THEN i GUESS i go off into
the wilderness and you, know canoes and we baskets AND
i don't know What i'm supposed to, do but you
do find that the culture. Changes so then you, wonder,
well you, know what is what is my life as
an activist look like in the next ten, Years and you,

(42:18):
know WILL i still have something to say or? Contribute
WILL i age out of? It or you, know WILL
i become obsolete or WILL i become like the Elder
statesman and they're, like, oh, Yeah, seth you know he's
been around for twenty five years instead of fifteen. Years
or will they be, like holy, shit that Guy's methuselah

(42:40):
next and they click. Through you just you have these
conversations as an activist in your. MIND i don't divide
world changing out by. DEMOGRAPHIC i think you can be
twelve or one hundred and. TWO i really think it's about, ability, availability, passion.
Desire you, know anybody anywhere can be an. ADVOCATE i

(43:02):
think we all have something to. Contribute and so there
are some people, like, well it's a young person's game
or it's not a young person's. GAME i don't really
divide people like. That do what you? Do, YEAH i Told,
Natalie i'm never going to. Retire, RETIREMENT i think is
the number one killer of a lot of, people the

(43:25):
lack of. Purpose how many people have we seen in their?
Lives AND i promise You i'll get to the next
call in just a. Second but how do we get
to the point where the goal is to? Work, work, work, work, work,
work work until you get to this specific age when
social security kicks in and you quit your, job and
then you sit and you put her around and you watch,

(43:51):
television and maybe you take yourself out to. Eat you
might take a trip from time to. Time BUT i,
mean where's the? Goal where's the? Purpose not all of.
RETIREES a lot of people who retire are always into.
Something they just start a new. Chapter AND i think
those people Are they're WHAT i want to. Be like

(44:13):
you are pursuing. Something you set, goals you achieve, goals
you set new. GOALS i don't think age is a
limiter of. That and so you, know even IF i
won the, lottery as IF i ever play the, lottery
but let's SAY i won the lottery, TOMORROW i would
still be an. ACTIVIST i would not be sitting dormant.

(44:35):
SOMEWHERE i, mean WOULD i want to live closer to
water that is not brown and where there are Not
trump flags on every other. House, Okay i'll do. THAT
i might, move But i'm always going to be engaged
in some. Way AND i think everybody has something to.
Contribute people will sometimes, ask, WELL i want to be

(44:55):
a part of. It what DO i? DO i should
start a, PODCAST i should have a YouTube, channel should
write a. Book, WELL i don't know if you should or.
NOT i think the question starts with what are your?
Gifts what are you good? At BECAUSE i guarantee you
if verbal communication is not your, thing a podcast is
a terrible. Idea if written language is a foreign language to,

(45:19):
you it's not something that you do easily or, well
or you don't. Enjoy you don't have to write a
book or a, blog a sub stack. Whatever musicians, make, music, painters,
paints orators. Speak everybody's got something that they can do
that positively impacts the. Culture AND i always, say start

(45:43):
there and start where you. Are that's WHAT i did
for what it was. Worth and Somehow i'm still. Kicking
the tribal elder has not yet been banished off into
the forest to. Die oh thank, goodness but the day

(46:06):
is young.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
The day is.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Young my wife did catch me playing bingo on my cell.
Phone there's a bingo. App i'll own that. One, YEAH
b seven, thing oh sixty, Six, YEAH i was doing.
It i'll own. It i'll own. It, okay hang, ON

(46:30):
i have a lot more people on the switchboard and
we're going to have a lot more. Conversations. Next i'm
going To denver speaking For Secular Hub december the. Sixth
that is A saturday doors, OPEN i think around four

(46:50):
and we started five and all our welcome details The
thinkingatheist dot com slash, Events i've got seven one? Seven
is It? Garrison who is dialing? In my name Is? Garrison?

Speaker 5 (47:07):
Sir then listen to your stuff for a little while.
Now AND i just wanted to start off by saying
that thank you for being as kind as you. ARE
i think that is something that intimidates a lot of
people into saying that they're an atheist because of there's
not a Mister rogers like you around.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Immediately, WELL i have my, moments but, OVERALL i feel
Like i'm pretty level. Headed you. Know HOW i get
through a lot of it is THAT i try to
think how much power AM i going to give a total,
Stranger like when somebody calls the line and they are
saying some of the dumbest Stuff i've ever, heard or
maybe they're just being. OFFENSIVE i don't, know BUT i

(47:48):
always think to, myself how much power AM i going
to give that person over in my, attitude my. Temperament
DO i consider the? Source DO i just sort of
shrug and smile and wink and try to have a
little fun with? It or DO i let them push
my buttons the buttons THAT i gave them access? To
AND i think that's been a tactic that has worked for.

(48:09):
Me not, perfect but thanks for, Noticing. Garrison what else
is on your? MIND i hear some beeping in the.
Background are you? Driving are you getting that out of
a car or? Something or what's?

Speaker 5 (48:19):
Up i'm just on my way back to my house
after dropping off my. GRANDMOTHER i patch on my headset,
here SO i apologize for Any.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
You're fun for a road noise, Here you're.

Speaker 5 (48:29):
Fine BUT i had on my, mind like my prompts
at a sort of family members in the age Of.
TRUMP i come from a family that is largely conservative And.
REPUBLICAN i have a cousin he is A pentecostal, castor
and they all feel pretty strongly about the current administration

(48:52):
and how sort of righteous it. Is, however myself and
my wife are both, atheists and we're both fairly left,
leaning but we both are more, MODERATE.

Speaker 8 (49:05):
I, think than.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
Anything but the sort of side Of republican things just
is so, very so very little to identify. With my
wife Is Korean american and our son is of course Half,
korean and it's very very strange of how people can you, know, say, oh,
yeah Mister trump is doing all this good stuff for

(49:27):
us and everything like, that when all you have to
turn around and do is is see how he has
made the country more dangerous for your family. Members BECAUSE
i met my wife after his first, administration but, she you,
know had all kinds of stories of people who felt

(49:48):
emboldened to you, know just be generally ruder to her
and up to just being, rude to being outright. Racist
and it really really worries me for my, son who
just turned one year.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Old a couple of weeks.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
Ago you know that he's gonna grow up in this
era where people feel with you, know just being nasty
is someone that doesn't.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
Look like, them and the fact that a.

Speaker 5 (50:15):
Good portion of his family members may sort of fall
into that sort of. Spectrum is is very.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Troubling it has been a black light at the crime,
scene hasn't. IT i have noticed that the racist feel
like they can be more publicly. Racist and many of
the people we thought we knew, well we realized we
didn't really know them as well as we thought we.
Did and the more we, know the more grieved we.
BECOME i, KNOW i think about some people in my own.

(50:45):
Family i've got one in my brain right. Now she
likes to talk about the blacks and the blacks do,
this and the blacks do, that as if the blacks
are a, monolith like they're all. One you, Know African
americans are the blacks first of, all that's the way
it rolls. Out just sounds tremendously dismissive and. Dehumanizing but beyond,

(51:07):
that she has taken first and what everybody who Has
African american, descent by the, way we are All. Africans
everybody who Has African american, descent they all they all do,
this they all do. That and it tells you how
reductive and simplistic and dismissive and really horrible this type
of thinking is it's. Interesting let me just detour for a.

(51:30):
Second my nephew married a lovely woman From South korea
and moved To South, korea AND i had a chance
to speak to him last. Year he lives there, now
but he came back to The. States she won't come
here now because she's terrified, that you, know something will.
Happen we've got an anti immigration, campaign we've got The

(51:51):
American gestapo out, there so it's. Understandable but it's funny
because he's like almost six feet tall and so. White
he could be seen from space, right and as he's
walking Through South, korea apparently he really sticks out Like
americans in these you. Know he, says, Hell, YEAH i

(52:14):
don't know What i'm hearing in the. Background are you mowing?
Now are you an air?

Speaker 5 (52:19):
Hanger oh, No i'm just agreeing with.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
You oh, NO i heard something in THE i wanted
my listeners to know what that. Was so, ANYWAY i
understand you are concerned about the very real racism that
is happening in this, country or that at least is
happening more. Publicly.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
Yeah, Absolutely and it's what you're describing of your nephew
is almost exactly what it.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
IS i.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
AM i am as white as white can, get you,
know All german And english, ancestry and frank wife is
both of her parents are expat so she is Full korean.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
But born In.

Speaker 5 (52:55):
America and you know when sort of people see us,
together you, know she fits UNDER i Are i'm six
foot two and you know she's four foot, ten so
we we really stick. Out but it's people can treat her.
Differently but then IF i sort of enter the picture
or come around the, corner as it, were you can

(53:17):
see the attitude, change and it's just really. Troubling and
then sort of layered on top of that of you,
know the religious rhetoric that often goes along with this
thing of like you've touched upon, IT i think a
lot in the last six months to a year of you,
know oh, well this is our manifest, destiny this is

(53:40):
sort of our god given, right and it's sort of
it's so aggravating to me THAT i can't talk to
my family members about this stuff because they are very
a very faithful type of. Family and my cousin AND
i mentioned it as a. Pastor he AND i have
sort of coming to an unspoken arrangement that we don't

(54:02):
really talk about, religion and unfortunately it's now comes to
that we don't really talk about politics, either BECAUSE i
don't agree, with you, know what his politics, are because
he falls much more on A republican side of. Things
and it's And i've back in twenty, sixteen twenty, SEVENTEEN

(54:23):
i tried to sort of relate to him of just
sort of what a toxic individual That trump was turning
out to be because he's a. Veteran AND i, said,
well look at this stuff that he said he would
do for, veterans and he's not doing. It he's promised
this but delivered. That and it's, like, oh, well you,
Know i've still got friends in. Military that's not actually what's.

(54:46):
Happening and it's, like but all the reporting is telling
us other than the people on thoughts is now is
there may be a little bit of difference between what's
being reported on the news and what's going on inside
the military. Structure absolute and that's absolutely possible to be the.
Case but you, know when you're talking about actively pulling

(55:07):
funding from THE va to send it to the border wall,
project how is that benefiting? Veterans? Yeah you can make
the argument, that, oh, well it's going towards home. DEFENSE i,
mean study after study shows that a border fence does
not do, much if. Anything it's there to make it feel.
Good most of these border crossings that are quote unquote

(55:30):
illegal are done at legal courts of, entry or there
are boats that you have ower state of, visa or
they are here on in the salmer bust and they're
working their way through. Resistance it's so called right, way
and just sort of time after, time but it really
became intensely personal to me WHEN i met my now

(55:52):
wife and you, know just seeing how sort of because
we live in a Pretty republican area in Central, pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
And so there's.

Speaker 5 (56:04):
Ooks that act a certain. Way, now we've been very
fortunate that my family has nothing but accommodating and time
to my. Wife that they have accepted her into the
family very, readily and that is a great credit to
her because she's a very personful. Person she gets along with.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
Stuff but there.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
Are times when we leave family events and we're just
sort of, like, whoah that was that was a?

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Thing, well let me ask you a. Question does your
wife ever feel is there?

Speaker 8 (56:35):
Unsafe she she doesn't as much anymore in sort of
the battle days of twenty seventeen to twenty twenty and
twenty twenty, one because of COURSE covid snapped.

Speaker 5 (56:54):
In and there was all that Anti asian rhetoric and,
stuff you, know it's so called un flu and everything like.
That and of, course because a lot of folks are,
uh let's call it not as, discerning you, know would, say, oh,
well Your, chinese go back where you came. From it's
like A i've lived here all my life and The

(57:14):
i'm Not. Chinese.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Yeah for. Context by the, way this was rooted into
The luhan lab leak conspiracy theory THAT covid was engineered
in a lab In, china and So trump called it
The china. Virus it was called by some The kung.
Flu and of, course being in a country that is culturally,

(57:37):
illiterate Everybody asian or Everybody. Chinese, wait everybody who Was
asian or Of asian derivation was Somehow. Chinese they lumped
them all together in a very pejorative, way very derogatory.
Way would that be a fair assessment or a fair? Representation? Garrison, Absolutely,
okay you hit the nail on the, head all, Right,
WELL i, worry you, KNOW i worry about anybody who

(58:00):
isn't you, know a, white usually, Male protestant evangelical trump
or thumper in The United states right, now because you
never know when a van's going to pull up and
some mask agent's going to run, out and who knows
what's going to. Happen AND i think that's WHY i
asked the. Question but as long as you guys feel relatively,
safe that warms my heart for.

Speaker 5 (58:20):
Sure, well unfortunately we have not been sort of hit
with the ice raids in the area that some of
the other areas of the country. Have but you, KNOW i,
say that's, right It's i'm headed WHEN i answered you
to say that if she doesn't feel as unsafe as
she used. To but even, so BECAUSE i am a

(58:42):
responsible gun owner growing up in a family has a
lot of. GUNS i, MEAN i keep in a gun
safe AND i observe proper permits and training and. Stuff, yeah,
sure me. Too but she asked me to show her
how to how to shoot a gun and help forget
her Concealed Carrie, turmit so that if she was feeling

(59:06):
unsafe that she could carry a firearm in her First
and fortunately we have not come to that sort of
point that it's it is a concern sort of on
the horizon of as these, things you, know here we.
Are it seems incredible to say that we are only
nine months into this presidency And i'm, sorry excuse, me

(59:31):
it feels like it's been.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Forever oh, yeah the national trauma has just. Begun i'm
doing the math in my. Mind going another twelve months
till the mid, terms it just seems like the. Moon,
actually it seems like the edge of the solar. System
BUT i feel like, that you, know we learn who loves,
us and we learn who loves us. CONDITIONALLY i think

(59:54):
we learn who accepts us and who accepts us. Conditionally
And i'm you, Know i'm very aware of families that
have an asterisk by all of the love, talk AND
i can too it in another way relate to some
of the challenges that you are going. Through But i'm
glad that you two have each other and you inspire.

(01:00:15):
ME i think it's it's a remarkable thing that you
are building a family in this crazy culture and your
creatures of reason and humanism and. Humanity so you, know
don't give up out, there AND i.

Speaker 5 (01:00:27):
Will, Either, okay absolutely. Right i'd be up the Coverbial
creek without. Her she she saves me at a time
in my life WHEN i didn't even KNOW i was,
drowning and she was that white rat for.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Me that sounds like we both married, up you. Know
way people look At natalie absolutely and they look at
me and they look back At natalie and they're, like
did you lose a? Bet like how did this? Happen i'm,
LIKE i just, Absolutely, garrison thanks so much for. Calling
we'll talk.

Speaker 5 (01:00:57):
Again, okay absolutely so thank, you and thank you for
doing what you do and making this dark time just
that little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Brighter we got each. Other we'll all stick to each.
Other thanks a. Bunch we'll see. You some people are,
like so Did Seth LIKE i don't not say, this
but did he use his voice on? You natalie has
hurt all my bullshit. Before she is not, Impressed, like

(01:01:25):
she's my number one. Fan she's a big. Supporter she's my.
Cheerleader WHEN i get back and my tank is empty
And i'm, discouraged and especially in light of you, know
bio family and the FRUSTRATIONS i feel, There natalie is
my pit. Crew my race car goes in and she
fuels me up and changes the tires and tells ME

(01:01:46):
i can, win and then she sends me off. Again
but but you understand WHAT i, Mean, like she's she's not.
Impressed she has seen beyond the, veneer beyond the air,
brushing beyond the they're ready for broadcast version that we
often will project in. PUBLIC i, mean you know what
you see as, me but you're not seeing me When

(01:02:06):
i'm walking around with bed head and bad breath at
five in the, morning you, know grumbling about the fact
That i've got to clean up cat vomit on the ground,
again or whatever's going on WHEN i wake up cranky or.
Whatever but some people are, like so when you Met,
natalie did you use your voice to try not to?
Seduce but you know WHAT i, Mean, like did you woo?

(01:02:29):
Her that's the Word i'm looking for with your. Voice
And natalie always calls me the silver tongue devil and
kind of winks, outline do you stillver tongue? Dead i'm, like,
NO i don't think it was. THAT i don't think
it WAS i think it would take more than. That
it's more than a tonal quality to impress the. Woman
so apparently she saw something AND i am. Delighted we

(01:02:51):
hit eleven years of. Marriage we've been together for. Sixteen
you know what's funny is before we got, married we
lived together for. Years and my religious parents were. Scandalized
WHEN i was growing. Up it was called shacking. Up they, say,
oh they're shacking up. Together when people were living together

(01:03:13):
without being. Married it was a big deal in a fundy.
Household they're living in sin and you know, what they're
having carnal relations Without god because you have to have
a signature on the marriage. Certificate you, know it was
scandalous enough THAT i was a, divorcee but then to live.

(01:03:34):
Together and of Course natalie AND i were a family
as much a family then as we are. Now AND
i always like to talk about, how you, know you
don't have to, say have a signature on a piece
of paper to be a. Family actually you don't even
have to have biology to be a. Family and there
are a lot of, people myself, included who continue to
go through this thing where you look at and, well

(01:03:55):
there's your mother and your, father and your siblings and
your cousin and your aunts and your. Uncles blah blah
blah blah, blah and some of us are related to
people we don't relate. To natalie is the Family i've.
CHOSEN i would not go. BACK i won the lottery
AND i know. It she's the person who's going to

(01:04:18):
counsel me and tell me That i'm you, know she's
good as an. Advisor she's a good centering, force doesn't
put up with any. Bullshit and she's also. Cheerleaders not the,
word but you know WHAT i. Mean if we If
i'm out on the tennis, court we go watch each
other play a. Match but if she's she's playing A

(01:04:40):
usta tennis match, Tonight i'm gonna bundle up And i'm
gonna go out and watch the match because it's. Fun
i'm gonna go and cheer her. On great, Shot let's,
go let's. Go you got, this let's do. It here we.
Go and when she hits a good shot and she
turns around and sees my, face IT'S i don't, know it's,
good AND i feel the. Same i'm like a little

(01:05:01):
kid at little league When i'm out there and something
happens AND i turn around AND i see her and
she's high fiving or smiling OR i screw up and
she's got oh my, god you know or. Whatever it's
something that we. Share she is my, person she's got my,
back and you, KNOW i don't, KNOW i don't know
Why i'm going, off but we won the, Lottery, garrison

(01:05:24):
we won the. Lottery more, show more, calls straight, ahead stand.
By appreciate you so much being a. Patron your support

(01:05:47):
On patreon helps me do WHAT i. Do the website
is patreon dot com Slash Seth andrews and thank you
very much for your. Support talk To, karina, yep thank
you so much for calling. In what's on your?

Speaker 7 (01:06:06):
Mind So i've just been thinking about like the rise
of anti. Intellectualism even though it's been like relatively prelevant
In american culture for a, while, ever it's really been
significantly at this. Point and it's very concerning to me
as a college.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Student what are you studying in?

Speaker 7 (01:06:25):
College i'm a double major in psychology And english.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Studies and you look around at the celebrated ignorance of
The United. States are so many in The United. States
my feelings are more valid than their facts and part
of you dies, Inside is that, Right?

Speaker 7 (01:06:42):
Karina, yes it's partially very like annoying sometimes to talk
to people and they would, reference, WELL i don't feel
like something, something And i'm, like but the, facts the.
Facts They, otherwise why don't you like?

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
RESEARCH i think most people believe not for reasons of.
EVIDENCE i think they believe for reasons of, confirmation bias or,
identity sometimes, BIGOTRY i, think sometimes. Laziness it's like when
you AND i speak to somebody about the tenets of their.
Faith often we know more about Somebody's christianity than The

(01:07:18):
christian actually, knows and yet the more we, highlight the
more they seem to not care or they just reject
our challenges? Outright was It shaw Bertrand? Russell someone was
talking about how we don't invoke faith in matters of.
Fact we don't SAY i believe it on faith when
it comes to two plus two equals. Four but people

(01:07:40):
do it with their gods because they want to substitute
emotion for. Evidence as a psychology, student do you think
that would be a way of saying it emotion over
evidence to an?

Speaker 7 (01:07:51):
Extent, Yes but also because religion mostly is childhood, inductrination
so you kind of have no choice to just trust
your parents are like caregivers or like who are tells
you that religion is, real so you don't really question,
It AND i guess there is some evolutionary basis to
it to an extent that you just trust implicitly to

(01:08:12):
people around you who take care of, you and you
don't question what kind of beliefs they're passing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
On do you ever watch The Daily show clips where
their correspondence go out To trump rallies with a microphone
and a camera and ask them basic. Questions it is
anti intellectualism writ, large and you fear for the. Species
you think maybe we deserve the killer. Asteroid you ever
see any of that?

Speaker 7 (01:08:38):
Stuff, Yes i've seen that a lot on both YouTube
and other.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Platforms, so as someone who studies the human, mind do
you feel like there's a path? Forward is there a
way to produce the crack that lets in the. Light
how do we break through or can we break? Through
what do you?

Speaker 7 (01:08:55):
THINK i think that does depend a lot person person,
basis because we are so unique in a. Way so
there's not a cookie cutter way to get someone out
of religion or like convince them otherwise of, Something and
it is harder to deconstruct something that you've got into
emotionally or know logically or something that you've just kind

(01:09:19):
of like known because that's what you were. Told but
at the same, time if someone is willing to do
the work and deconstruct and look back at what they
were taught and, WHY i think it is really. Possible
AND i think a lot of if you learned a
lot of, psychology that would also be. Beneficial so you
can also understand that humans are naturally just, Biased so

(01:09:40):
that can help you see past your emotional reactions to
certain things and, realize, oh AM i being just? Biased
or is this like a valid feeling for the?

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Response someone in the chant fairly said liberals are not
immune from, this and you would. Agree we're all human.
BEINGS i have seen, people And i've been guilty myself
of leaning into an emotional, response belief in the, brain confirmation,
bias lazy. Thinking i've shared things that weren't properly vetted

(01:10:12):
and got. Burned i've had ideas that were unfortunate and got.
Burned AND i will make mistakes moving forward BECAUSE i
am far from a perfect. Thinker nobody's, immune, Right, yes well.

Speaker 7 (01:10:25):
Exactly that's kind of like the purpose of human psychology
in a. Way it kind of preserves our way of.
Thought and another thing is cognitive, dissonance is that like
you learn two facts that kind of contradict each other
and you have to make sense of. That and for
a lot of religious, people they try to get rid
of cognitive dissonance by rationalizing things or doing circular reasoning

(01:10:51):
to convince themselves that their initial point of view or
opinion is the most, valid so they discard the other
facts or.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Opinion, karina did you break out of a? Religion did
you deconstruct out of? Something or?

Speaker 7 (01:11:05):
WELL i MEAN i was raised In Russian Orthodox, church
SO i guess that is kind of like my, background you, Know.
Christianity but at the same, TIME i don't THINK i
ever was like that deep in it to ever be
convinced that it's. Real and ALSO i have like my Children's,
bible And i've read it several times and it's just

(01:11:26):
been more confusing than anything because it was starting Like
genesis and it would be, like, Oh adam And eve
and then they got kicked out Of, paradise and then
they go on and have, kids and then you have to, wonder,
well aren't be like against, Incess like how did they
make so many people with just two. People you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Know, NO i WISH i had had a tenth of
your critical thinking skills WHEN i was a. Kid back
WHEN i was, young it was, Like oh, great a
couple of cosmically conjured garden nudists who talked to. Snakes
meg's perfect sense to, Me and THEN i carry that
with me into adulthood and beat myself up WHEN i
finally bust it. Out i'm glad to meet a proponent

(01:12:08):
of science out, There. KARINA i think that's something that the,
world certainly this country needs more. Of so you keep
sciencing and promoting, intellectualism and we'll do our best to
try to encourage, everyone including, ourselves to be creatures of
the evidence as best we. Can anything.

Speaker 7 (01:12:28):
Else BEFORE i move, on, NO i just want to
say thank you for the work you. DO i think
is very. Valuable And i'm not an, activist BUT i
say THAT i really want to try to get into that,
sphere the kind of fear that you're, in to maybe promote.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
CHANGE i think, you, honestly as someone who IS i
don't know, you are going to be a proponent of.
SCIENCE i think that's a great place to. START i
MIGHT i be excited to see where your journey takes.
You thanks for the kind words and the, encouragement and
keep sciencing my. Friend, okay, yep thank, you all, right
we'll see. You who was it who said we're talking

(01:13:07):
about how, gosh forgive? Me this is what happens late
in the day When i'm trying to put a thought.
Together but it was, about, well doesn't religion make a
lot of people? Happy and there was that famous line
about well is that even an? Argument but a religious
person is happier than a non religious person is like

(01:13:29):
saying a drunk person is happier than a sober. One
so does that validate being? Drunk you, know be. Inebriated
there was also another, line the famous quote THAT i
cannot source off the cuff, here but it was about how,
intellectuals people who are more, educated who are better thinkers

(01:13:52):
about the, world often may be less happy because of
their understanding of what is actually going. DOWN i think
happiness is a, goal but happiness is not a determiner
as to what is true and what is not. RIGHT
i would rather live a more difficult reality than pinball

(01:14:13):
around inside a happy. Fantasy and that's just WHERE i.
FALL i think some other people might, admit, HEY i
don't care if you plug me into the matrix and
it's all, bogus But i'm. Happy then happy for me
is the end, zone AND i don't care about the
rest of. It they're honest enough to at least say
it out. LOUD i myself don't THINK i could go.
BACK i, think, well you, know it's messier out here

(01:14:36):
in the real. World it's more of a. Burden it
keeps me up at night. MORE i don't have a
content heart the WAY i did WHEN i was but
it was only content back then BECAUSE i was. IGNORANT
i didn't truly understand what was going. On my world
was a, thimble you, know instead of you could fit

(01:14:58):
it in a thimble and stead it being the, vast,
wild wide and sometimes crazy. Ocean that is the reality out.
THERE i don't, Know i'm. SOMETHING i was just thinking.
Of are you happier in some? Ways are you more
burdened in other? Ways you? Know but let me look
this up here real. Fast there was this article In Psychology.

(01:15:20):
Today we got a couple of extra minutes from four years.
Ago Psychology, Today thirteen reasons why a HIGH iq could
make you less happy having superior native intelligence can be
more alienating than. Endearing, NOW i just want to get
in front of this and say that If i've been,

(01:15:42):
Miserable i'm not saying it's BECAUSE i have a super HIGH.
IQ i think mostly it's Because i'm mildly. Observant BUT
i find the article. Fascinating many authors have discussed the
advantages of being intellectually, gifted and that's hardly, surprising the article.
Says what is, surprising, though is how many authors have

(01:16:05):
also written about the drawbacks of being not so much
blessed as cursed by possessing a HIGH, iq and a
particularly super HIGH. Iq it's something like having too much
of a good, thing in this, case missing the sweet,
spot not on the, downside but paradoxically on the way.
Up in, principle at least we admire. Geniuses after, all

(01:16:28):
we live in a meritorious. Society i'm not sure we,
do but, okay. Fine we live in a meritorious society
and in many ways evaluate people on the basis of.
Intelligence yet in actuality i. E when we're personally involved with,
them our reactions tend to be much more ambiguous and
much less. Positive how else to explain why intellectually superior

(01:16:52):
students so frequently develop apprehension about exhibiting their intelligence in the.
Classroom they may avoid volunteering the right, answer hoping that
someone else will raise their. Hands for if they routinely
offer an answer no one can come up, with they're
likely to have the uncomfortable experience of being glared, at

(01:17:13):
or even being made fun of or bullied on the. Playground,
plus being identified as a teacher's pets isn't, adulatory it's.
Censoring this post will identify thirteen reasons why gifted individuals
learn how to manage their intellect. Wisely it can negatively
affect their performance and interpersonally alienate those around. Them, now

(01:17:38):
this is a long ass. Article i'm not going to
go through all of, these BUT i will name. Them Number,
one the very intelligent know they're, intelligence so they're prone
to setting lofty expectations that too often they can't. Meet
two HIGH iq individuals are more likely to have anxiety.
Issues they tend to think more about the negative thing

(01:18:00):
that happen to, them ruminating and replaying scenarios to learn
what went. Wrong three very smart people don't necessarily make
better decisions they're likely to inject personal biases into their,
transaction and this IS i think a riff. On sometimes
smart people can outsmart. Themselves number. Four because HIGH iq

(01:18:23):
people learn things so easily when they're, young they're liable
to get so accustomed do succeeding without putting forth much
effort that they never develop the habit of, perseverance which
is so fundamental to long term. Success number. Five because
they're prone to live in their, heads they may largely
be cut off from their, emotions and because of their

(01:18:46):
constantly activated, intellect the feelings they can eloquently express may
yet be difficult to let go. Of number, Six HIGH
iq people tend to overthink or over analyze. Things number.
Seven very smart people have difficulty avoiding the temptation to
correct others', mistakes since they can be sticklers for getting things.

(01:19:12):
Right not, surprisingly this habit doesn't win much favor with other,
people who can be, embarrassed, annoyed or. Offended number, Eight
making and keeping friends is often. Problematic it's hard for
others to feel comfortable getting close to someone whose intellectual
prowess far outshines their. Own. Nine HIGH iq people can

(01:19:36):
easily become frustrated and lose patience when what they share
is repeatedly, misunderstood despite several attempts to clarify, it even
dumb it. Down number. Ten their sense of humor may
be totally out of sync with. Others not only do
they get a joke's punchline more, quickly but what others

(01:19:58):
find amusing to them may seem, insipid, strained or. Tried
some'm going to throw in also based juvenile and. Stupid number.
Eleven the intellectually elite more commonly experienced social. Isolation when
they can't locate others with mentality similar to, theirs they

(01:20:18):
sometimes choose. Solitude number. Twelve the intellectually gifted don't simply
know more than, others but are acutely aware of all
they don't. Know and, finally number. Thirteen Thomas gray, said
where ignorance is, bliss tis folly to be. Wise this

(01:20:40):
expression suggests how those with EXCEPTIONAL i cues recognize things
that others do, not and much of what they are
cerebrally privileged to know and actually, hurt, worry or antagonize.
Them any of those ring for, YOU i know this
is a highly intelligent. AUDIENCE i know many people listening

(01:21:02):
smarter than, me much SMARTER i. Know any of that
ring true for. You that is the THOUGHT i will
leave you, with AND i will see you back here
on the broadcast next. Time be, safe take, care And
i'll see. You.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
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