October 17, 2025 • 29 mins
At the recent California Freethought Day, Seth Andrews engaged a street preacher who had come to save the world.
The audio is messy. Sorry for the background noise.
VIDEO of the second exchange with a bicycle preacher.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/thethinkingatheist--3270347/support.
The audio is messy. Sorry for the background noise.
VIDEO of the second exchange with a bicycle preacher.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/thethinkingatheist--3270347/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
an idea.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The population of atheists this country is going through.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
The rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If
I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,
not because.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I put my hand on a book and made a.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Wish and working together for a more rational world.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
Truth Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
What is it about street apologist preachers these evangelists, If
they know there's a free thought event within six miles,
they just gravitate to it. You know. They're the mosquito
who sees the bug zapper and they're like, it's so beautiful.
This happened just a few days ago. I was speaking
(01:17):
at California Freethought Day on the Capitol Step, Sacramento, California,
and I had three encounters with street preaching Christians and
they were all wildly different. Now I'm about to play
some audio from one exchange with this guy, I forget
his name off the top of my head. He introduces
himself at the beginning of the clip. He is straight
(01:39):
out of the life church factory. He's around fifty, kind
of gray, but he's trying to be cool. Got a
T shirt says Jesus on the front, and he's just
walking around engaging people, which he's free to do. We
were in a public space, etc. But he was just
going from atheist to atheists to atheist and he had
(02:01):
this one sheet of doctrinal material in his hand. I
didn't even look to see what it was. I walked
over and engaged. Now it's a little bit of a
frustrating audio clip because I hadn't anticipated going out and
interviewing people. I was wired for my speech, so I
had a lapel mic on my jacket, and when I
(02:23):
saw this dude, I just had a what the hell moment,
and I just turned it on and walked over and
tried to stand close. But there was a speech going
on behind us on a pa There's a shit on
a background noise, so you really kind of have to
work to hear, especially his side of the conversation. But
I'll play it for you, you know, if you want to,
(02:43):
If you can get through it, and if the background
stuff doesn't bother you and you can get it, that's fine,
and if not, no problem. I'm not going to take
that personally. There was another guy, he was about fifty
contry Fell.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
He was.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
He was not from California, I guarantee you, but he
apparently lived in the Sacramento area at that time, and
he was wandering around and he was doing another riff
on Christianity, which was one of those things where everyone
else has read the Bible and gotten it wrong. I
have broken the code. I understand what the Bible is
(03:24):
trying to say. In all of you and most Christians
who have read the scriptures literally or in the wrong translation, etc.
You have been deceived. You are not operating with the insight. Therefore,
I have come to provide the insight for you. I'm
just like what. So he and I talked for about
(03:48):
fifteen twenty minutes. I did not get audio of that,
but he was just odd, and I realized I was
told rather after the fact by somebody else, because he
was going person to person person he was going to
find an atheist. He was going to fix those people
going to He's going to find one and bring him
to Jesus. Okay, and one of the people he engaged
(04:09):
after me came up and they said, you realize you
were speaking to the Messiah. I'm sorry what? Yeah, yeah,
he said. When he was talking to me, he said
that he had read the Bible and he had sort
of decoded it. He had drawn the wisdom that so
many others had missed, and one of the reasons he
(04:30):
was able to do that is because he is the Messiah.
And the rest of the afternoon, I was like, hey, folks,
I just met the Messiah. You know, my day's not
getting any better. I met the Messiah in Sacramento, of
all places. I mean, he just happened to live here.
It's just remarkable. The Lord does work in mysterious ways. Well,
(04:52):
the third guy, apparently he believes Jesus appeared to him
in a vision and he said, here's what I want
you to do. I want you to take your e
bike and I want you to put a trailer hitch
on it. And then I want you to build a
(05:16):
trailer that's made up of white poster board printed with
scriptures in various languages. Okay, and then I want you
to go down to downtown Sacramento every weekend and drive
around with Billy Graham sermons from the nineteen sixties and
(05:38):
seventies blaring out of a bluetooth speaker. Talk about obnoxious.
He spoke with an accent what sounded to me like
a Russian accent. I mean, I couldn't place it, but
you get what I mean, right, And he's cycling around
pulling this trailer. On the side of the trailer, it's like,
where will you spend eternity? You know, there was no
(06:03):
other name by which men might be saved, and God
had ordained him to just potter around the capitol. Actually
didn't make that sound because it's knee bike was more
like bicycle helmet, yellow construction vest, looks like some kind
of work boots, semi vacant look on his face. I
(06:26):
saw him. I happened to be wired up for sound,
and as best I could, I went over and had
a conversation, and that one I had a volunteer for
California Free Thought, grab my phone and shoot video. And
again the audio's challenging on his end because he had
freaking Billy Graham blaring. Even when he turned it down.
(06:47):
I was like, Jesus Christ, if you'll pardon the expression.
So there are two debates that if you want to see,
I had discussions, exchanges. They were good faith exchanges. But
if you want to see the guy on wheels, you
want to see a trailer preacher for Jesus wearing the
construction vest on the e bike that's linked in the
(07:09):
description box. The audio I'm going to play for you
here is the kind of a I want to be cool,
but I will never be cool life churchy kind of pastor.
And I have been sent here by Jesus. Forgive the
background noise, but I just wanted to play it for you.
Here we go. Hey, I'm Seth, Seth Rich.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Rich.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
What are you doing here?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
You know, it's a funny question. I was.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
The Lord told me to come down here and start
preaching because I preached to.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
The homeless people. I helped him out.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
I served the floor, and I thought I was coming
down here to preach to the homeless, and then he
led me right over here, and I was like, what
is this little.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Conference going on here?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah? Yeah, And I realized it was a bunch of atheists,
and I was like, Wow, that's why I'm here.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Lord. Maybe I can make the difference.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Why do you think the Lord didn't show up to
represent himself? Why you?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Because he works through people, that's the kingdom of God.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah. But I mean, if God Jesus wants me to
know we exists, all he has to do is to
show up and prove himself. He doesn't really need you.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
See, the Bible says the invisible things from the creation
of the war are clearly seen all around us, so
that we are without excuse. We all have afferent conscience
to know right or wrong, good and evil?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Right? Do you see it as a position of I'm
asking you a question.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
You asked me a question, I answered it.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You have to well, you made a statement that you
got in creation and in conscience, right, Jesus, God has
proven all around us.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Right right, good and evil right, which is.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Why two thirds of the planet believes in a different
God or no God at all. Right. The God who
was not the author of confusion is not doing so well.
So my question is why you and why here? Why me?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
And why here?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Why did it send me here?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I need to have a conversation to save one soul.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
But maybe a change of belief from you know, from
thinking that something can be created at a nothing and
maybe you can turn up before judgment Holmes, because see,
your soul is eternal, and you're.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Going to have You're going to have to Dude, I
came out of Christianity. I was a Christian broadcaster. I
don't you and I are speaking the same language. We
both understand the Gospel, the salvation message. So I appreciate
that you want to give that to me. And but
I already know it.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Okay, but haven't you haven't You haven't experienced the power
of the Lord, goes.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
How do you know that?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Because I can tell by your body language there's no love.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I don't have love in me.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You're you're in your confrontational I can feel your energy.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, no, there is a sound system behind us, and
so you and I are engaging in close proximity, so
you hear each other. I am I'm an atheist, but
more importantly, I'm a humanist. I believe that there is
good without God's I don't think a worthy God would
damn me for living a good life and trying to
find the truth on my terms. And a worthy God
(10:03):
that was all knowing and all powerful would already know
how to prove himself to me without needing an evangelist.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So let me ask you a question. Do you believe
in good and evil?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I believe not in evil with the capital E, but
I believe there are deeds that could be called evil, antisocial, destructive.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Let me ask you a question. We'll break it down
to the least common side. Do you believe lying for
personal gain is good or evil?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I think that's a reductive question.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
No is lying. If someone is lying good.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Here is the scenario that I give in response to that,
because it is not a binary answer. Let's say in abuse,
victims comes to my home and I hide them in
my house, and the abuser knocks on my door and says,
is my wife there to protect her? I lie, and
I say she's not here because my number one concern
is to protect the victim. But that's that's a gain
(11:00):
I have gained, and the victim is gained, And yet
on the surface I lie. Now how does that fit
in the moral puzzle?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Well, it's a personal gain. You're not personally you're protecting somebody.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
But I gain as well. I mean, I'm protecting myself
and my own family. What if he comes in, What
if he's dangerous to all of us. I think it's situational.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
But okay, stealing, what about stealing?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I don't believe that stealing is right. But I'll tell
you this, if someone was in if someone was in
a position where they were starving and they stole a
piece of my read.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
That's okay when it comes to survival, when it comes
to food and you're hungry, And the Bible said.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I believe that murder is wrong. You know, the idea
that murdering people is wrong is a statement that is
made first by and owned by the Christianity is totally bogus.
Like every culture that is predated and post dated, Christianity
has a moral code murderer. Yeah. Sure. This idea that
it's it's a revelation, don't be shitty to people, right,
(12:04):
don't hurt other people, live a good life is not
something that is. It's not rocket science. And Christianity didn't
do it first or didn't do it best.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
The point I'm trying to get to is is there's
moral there's absolute moral standards that we're going to be
judged by it because there's got to be consequences.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
How do you know evil? How do you know where's
the judge? And how do you know that?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Given a conscience to know right or wrong?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
If I have evolved a set of instincts as to
what is antisocial and pro social behaviors, how do you
know that it was put in place by a third
party somewhere? And how do you know it was a
specific agent with a proper name. How do you know that?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Because I know by this world that this world didn't
create itself.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Right, it's I know that building right, that didn't build itself.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I know someone who writes a book over there on
the table, But that book didn't build itself, didn't write it.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
No, I get that. No, I get that. But Islamis
say that it was Allah, and other religions say it
was another. How did you land on a specific deity?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
How did I land on Jesus God?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeahweh whatever is Jehovah. He revealed himself a personal revelation
to you. So if I'm a neutral observer and I'm
at a table and a Muslim says Allah personally revealed
himself to me, and I know in my heart he
is real and he's the creator of all things. If
I'm a neutral observer, then I should take both of
your claims at equal value.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
You're not saying that you have to search out the
truth for yourself. If you're searching for truth, then you'll
be led to the Lord God.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
If you have a.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Hard heart and you don't believe in that a God exists,
and then you form your own belief system, and that's
atheism for you.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Atheism is not a belief system. It's not a creed,
it's not a philosophy. It's simply, I don't believe in
God's I don't buy it. Humanism is my philosophy, and
I think my challenge and one of the reasons I
wanted to engage, is that I find it's presumptuous and
even a bit rude to show up in an event
that we have organized for ourselves.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, I didn't even know I was coming here.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Tell you well, I don't care if you planned it
or not. What I'm saying is this is a space
where these folks have come together for community. You've shown
up with the presumption that we are broken and need
to be fixed. So my response to you is, I
don't care if it's an US or a week question.
Isn't it presumptuous? To show up at somebody else's party
(14:33):
because I didn't know I was doing. I don't care
if you knew in advance. You are walking up to
other people at their event, at their advance, to tell
them that they are broken. I'm not, I'm you just
said we needed to be saved.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
All need to be saved, all of us.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Why do we need to be saved?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Because we are broke in we are sinful, fallen b
again people. So that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Does sin have consequences in your mind?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I don't believe in sin as a as.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
So you don't believe there's any consequences for your actions?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
No, no, no, I don't frame it as sin. I
believe there are moral and immoral behaviors, but I think
sin is a religious construct. Okay, that carries a ton
of theological and superstisha backage.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
So let's go back to absolute marine.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I'm not going to let you take us away from
my first question, which is why would you crash a
party that you were not invited to? Not crashing a
party to tell people that they are broken and need
to be fixed.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I literally was over there having a conversation and you
came and somebody here.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Somebody came over here and introduced me to this group.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
The story you began with was you came their minister
to the homeless, and then you saw us, not that
you got sucked in.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
I walked right through over there, and I was like,
what is this all about?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And I didn't even know, and you didn't turn and
walk away. Why would you come in here to tell
us that we are sinners and we need Jesus when
it's not your game, it's not.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Even preaching to anybody. I got introduced to you.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And him by her.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I was having a conversation over there on the point
you start off preaching to me. I didn't ask you anything.
You brought up Jesus to Okay, I asked you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
You know who the time demographics.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Are what you're saying, why is it you did Kim?
We're having prothetized.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
If I was an atheist who walked into a church
or a fellowship gathering and went point by point to
the people who had come to eat and enjoy music
and spend time together, and I said, what you believe
is wrong, what you believe is wrong, what you believe
is wrong? How would you feel about that.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
If you love somebody, right, if you truly loved somebody
another person more than you love yourself, you would tell
them that Jesus loves you.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You have a very noble accounting of yourself. I mean,
if you love somebody, it's a very noble accounting of it.
So no, I have come because I love you, and
out of selflessness, I am entering your event.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Well now I am because I didn't know what I
was getting like.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, you would be doing all of us a favor
if you would entrust your God to do the job
instead of you deciding to do it for you.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
But he gives you free will. That's why he loves you.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
God who gave me free will, would also make himself undeniable.
I have free will. You have free will. Look at
the trees.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
You have a conscience to know right and wrong, good
and evil.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I have.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Do you know who?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Do you know who has a greater knowledge of the
Bible statistically in this world? It's jew as an atheist.
And you want to know why so many atheists have
walked away from the Christian origin story and the Christian
morality claims is because we know what the Bible says
about it, And because we understand it, we have rejected it.
It makes no sense. We don't need it. And all
(17:55):
of the people that are around you today, we're good.
We're good, we're happy, we're centered, we're filled with purpose.
We love each other. We want to make a better world.
You are fixing what is not broken.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
It is broken it Look around you.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You don't tell you hearing me?
Speaker 3 (18:11):
You don't. You can't see that we're about to enter
into the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
There is you know how many people have made an
end of the world prediction every generation for thousands of years.
The day is nine, the end of the world, is it?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Have you ever heard of the mark of the Beast?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Oh? Yes, I have?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
You know?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Do you know what it is?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Well, everyone says it's something different. What's your take.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
It's a microchip?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh, I know what it is. But is it like
an actual number? Is it a tattoo? It's a micro barcode.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
It's a microchip.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
And what they've been putting in the pharmachia medicines, medicine, medication, vaccines,
is messenger, RNA, nanotechnology and graphine. And so when that
microchip goes online and it's connected to the fire.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
We just took another turn.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
You know, I'm going to tell you we.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Do a whole broadcast on mRNA, vaccine and science.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
This was this is We're the temple of God in
the spirit.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
There were no there were no metals. There are no
conductors in the chemicals of vaccines that could do the
things you're saying they do.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
When you see this going and mandated on everybody. You
know the Bible. You said you know the Bible better
than anyone right now.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I didn't say that. I just said atheists tend to
know it better than your study.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
You said you've done. You've done your study, so you
know the word and it dwells within you. So the
Bible says in Revelation thirteen sixteen that no man will
be able to buy or sell right unless they have
the mark and they're right here for him.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
So what does that mean they won't be able to
buy or sell. Look at where we are today. Through technology.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
We've gone from cash to credit cards, to credit cards
with a chip, to Apple watches.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Now they're coming out with the digital ID.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
No people, no one will be able to work in
European Union unless they have that digital ID. Trump is
now passing an executive order for a digital ID governed
by artificial intelligence governance for everything to surveillance.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Say, which is going to be attached to this?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
So you cannot participate in the global economy. However, the
Bible says that if you take that mark, your soul
will be eternally tortured, because you will have defiled your
temple by putting your faith and trust in the world which.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Has created torture. Who puts me in the torture chain?
No unbelief. If a divine father was to take me
and throw me into a pin, you are rejecting him.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
You would not if a wife you.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Asked somebody out on a date, right, no, no, no, no, no
no no, I'm not gonna let your hook. If you
had a child, and let's say no, no, no, no, no.
If you had a child and your child was strongly disobedient,
and let's say your child denied you, under what circumstance
would you ever create a scenario where that child was
lit a flame.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
If that child said, Dad, you know what, I reject you.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I don't care what your instructions.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You've set it on fire.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
No, he's going to.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Say you know what, son, Go out into the world,
do what you want and learn.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I love you, depart from me.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I love you who are cursed.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I'm into a lake of everlasting fire. You prepared for
the devil and his angels.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
You can dance myself because you have rejected his instructions.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I'm asking, is there any scenario where a father would
allow or want or or create a scenario where the
child He would.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Never want that, So he never want that.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
He hates to do it, but he will earn you.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
See, this is a different spect for God.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
This is a difference, the difference if you don't ask
for forgiveness for your inequity. Right, Jesus loved you so
much that he paid the debt on that cross.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I could give the sermon you're giving, my brother. But
since I could give the sermon you're giving me.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
He paid the debt for your sins. Tell me that's
not love.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Let me ask you this because you know you couldn't.
You believe we are natural. The mark of the beast
is in the Bible, so you believe it's true. You
know what else is in the Bible? Nine hundred year
old people, donkeys that speak Hebrew, a guy that lived
for three days in a submerged prison, fish flying chariots
of fire, slavery, human sacrifice, an unwed teenager impregnated by
(22:22):
a holy spirit via ghost sex, and seven headed prostitute
writing dragons in the Book of Revelation. All those things
are true.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
So you're limiting your knowledge to what you believe in
what you've learned.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So you're saying the same thing to me.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm saying that if I doubt seven a headed prostitute
writing dragons fairy tale, isn't that reasonable? I don't believe
people liveology.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Look at the mythology. Where is dragons come from?
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Why does this the Chinese? Chinese people worship the dragon,
the dragon. Every piece of mythology has an element of
truth to it.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
It's just been I understand that I'm not talking about
an element. I'm not talking about echoes of cultures and
what they believe. I'm not talking about It's almost like
saying Spider Man is real because New York exists. Right.
The mythologies aren't then true, they're just based in they
incorporate various truths. But it's not unreasonable for me to
(23:18):
say I don't believe a donkey spoke Hebrew. I think
that's a reasonable position. Well, Aleem's donkey didn't speak to
him in Hebrew.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Well were you there?
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Are they phoned thoers? Are they found that where they
find it Turkey? Yes they have, they phoned it in Turkey.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Yes they have, they have.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
You know what, we could probably be.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Here all day mostly though, every time the culture has
the account of a deluge of flood, they didn't call
it nos they called it a deluge. Every culture has
the account in their history. How does their The Bible
says it's six thousand, but that's just the one cycle,
one cycle. See, this is going to repeat itself because
(23:59):
it has repeated. It's out because angels have in Heaven
have for you will angel, and you are an angel
trapped in that.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Plus, the Epic of Gilgamesh is a Noah's Art story
that predates Noah's Ark by about a thousand years. Sumarios
loaded with Sameria with flood myths, right.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, and even talks about planet X.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And so there were genre myths. So the fact that
other cultures spoke.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
About So you want a reference born of a virgin
because we're all Zacharai Christian said, there's there's a twin
system that we have out there.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
A planet X is going to come every thirty six
hundred years to destroy the art.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, do you believe that you're you're quoting the Samerian texts.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I'm saying that's what they believed, or that's what they claimed.
Christianity is just simply nothing new. It's borrowed and it's
I think. To doubt it or to say I don't
buy it and I'm good for its own sake is reasonable.
I don't see. This is where I don't need you
to fix me.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Let me agree, Let me agree with you for one second,
kind of I don't believe the Lord God in heaven
this world, So he used.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I don't used. Our journey is about us. We're we're
happy for you. Go live your life. Man. I'm telling him,
this is our party and we're celebrating community and secular
values together. It is hugely presumptuous for you to be
here and try to engage in this way.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Okay, I had no plans to, but you did it.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Whether you plan to or no, I appreciate your verve.
Thank you for being here, but guys, please listen, go
elsewhere guys, listen to the go ye elsewhere there's no love.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
There's no there's no love, you have no love.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I think it's more about boundaries than it is about love,
attacking that you have come in and decided that we
are your mission field and we're just not. Have you
heard the term proselytization is objectification. You have in that
way objectified the people here because they are now objects
that are part of your mission. What we're not. We're
(26:02):
just people, were people good for our own sake. We're happy,
We're good, okay, and I love you guys. All right,
thanks for talking to me.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
All right?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Are you going to preach to me again?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
When that happens? You know that the Bible, particularly.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
When I'm at the judgment seat, I'll drop your name
and I'll said, you know, he did everything he possibly could,
but I just didn't listen.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
I don't want I don't want that to happen.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
No, no one doubts your sincerity. This makes me want
to do what the Street Epistemology crew does. I really
am thinking about setting up a kind of I don't know,
in counter area where everybody can be properly miked and
(26:55):
and have maybe two or three cameras with different advantages
for some color in con text and engage people in goodwill.
I'm I'm not a total jerk. I think I've got
relevant questions. I don't think I was rude. I was direct,
but you know, I'm thinking, would you want that? I
(27:16):
know a lot of people are out there doing it,
but I've done a lot of this casually and I'm
really thinking about doing more of its officially is not
the word, but for the channel, and then you can
watch how engagements go. I'm sure some people are going
to be totally approaching me in goodwill and literal good faith.
Other people are going to be telling me I'm going
(27:37):
to burn and screw you in the name of the Lord.
And there are gonna be some wacky folks out there
who maybe think they're the Messiah. I don't know. I
it would be a fresh thing for me after sixteen
years of activism. I'm just saying I'm thinking about it.
So anyway, I hope you've enjoyed this little bonus, and
(27:59):
I don't know, take it or leave it's I'll catch
you on the next one. Take care.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Follow the Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a
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Speaker 2 (00:10):
The population of atheists this country is going through.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
The rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If
I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,
not because.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I put my hand on a book and made a.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Wish and working together for a more rational world.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
Truth Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
What is it about street apologist preachers these evangelists, If
they know there's a free thought event within six miles,
they just gravitate to it. You know. They're the mosquito
who sees the bug zapper and they're like, it's so beautiful.
This happened just a few days ago. I was speaking
(01:17):
at California Freethought Day on the Capitol Step, Sacramento, California,
and I had three encounters with street preaching Christians and
they were all wildly different. Now I'm about to play
some audio from one exchange with this guy, I forget
his name off the top of my head. He introduces
himself at the beginning of the clip. He is straight
(01:39):
out of the life church factory. He's around fifty, kind
of gray, but he's trying to be cool. Got a
T shirt says Jesus on the front, and he's just
walking around engaging people, which he's free to do. We
were in a public space, etc. But he was just
going from atheist to atheists to atheist and he had
(02:01):
this one sheet of doctrinal material in his hand. I
didn't even look to see what it was. I walked
over and engaged. Now it's a little bit of a
frustrating audio clip because I hadn't anticipated going out and
interviewing people. I was wired for my speech, so I
had a lapel mic on my jacket, and when I
(02:23):
saw this dude, I just had a what the hell moment,
and I just turned it on and walked over and
tried to stand close. But there was a speech going
on behind us on a pa There's a shit on
a background noise, so you really kind of have to
work to hear, especially his side of the conversation. But
I'll play it for you, you know, if you want to,
(02:43):
If you can get through it, and if the background
stuff doesn't bother you and you can get it, that's fine,
and if not, no problem. I'm not going to take
that personally. There was another guy, he was about fifty
contry Fell.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
He was.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
He was not from California, I guarantee you, but he
apparently lived in the Sacramento area at that time, and
he was wandering around and he was doing another riff
on Christianity, which was one of those things where everyone
else has read the Bible and gotten it wrong. I
have broken the code. I understand what the Bible is
(03:24):
trying to say. In all of you and most Christians
who have read the scriptures literally or in the wrong translation, etc.
You have been deceived. You are not operating with the insight. Therefore,
I have come to provide the insight for you. I'm
just like what. So he and I talked for about
(03:48):
fifteen twenty minutes. I did not get audio of that,
but he was just odd, and I realized I was
told rather after the fact by somebody else, because he
was going person to person person he was going to
find an atheist. He was going to fix those people
going to He's going to find one and bring him
to Jesus. Okay, and one of the people he engaged
(04:09):
after me came up and they said, you realize you
were speaking to the Messiah. I'm sorry what? Yeah, yeah,
he said. When he was talking to me, he said
that he had read the Bible and he had sort
of decoded it. He had drawn the wisdom that so
many others had missed, and one of the reasons he
(04:30):
was able to do that is because he is the Messiah.
And the rest of the afternoon, I was like, hey, folks,
I just met the Messiah. You know, my day's not
getting any better. I met the Messiah in Sacramento, of
all places. I mean, he just happened to live here.
It's just remarkable. The Lord does work in mysterious ways. Well,
(04:52):
the third guy, apparently he believes Jesus appeared to him
in a vision and he said, here's what I want
you to do. I want you to take your e
bike and I want you to put a trailer hitch
on it. And then I want you to build a
(05:16):
trailer that's made up of white poster board printed with
scriptures in various languages. Okay, and then I want you
to go down to downtown Sacramento every weekend and drive
around with Billy Graham sermons from the nineteen sixties and
(05:38):
seventies blaring out of a bluetooth speaker. Talk about obnoxious.
He spoke with an accent what sounded to me like
a Russian accent. I mean, I couldn't place it, but
you get what I mean, right, And he's cycling around
pulling this trailer. On the side of the trailer, it's like,
where will you spend eternity? You know, there was no
(06:03):
other name by which men might be saved, and God
had ordained him to just potter around the capitol. Actually
didn't make that sound because it's knee bike was more
like bicycle helmet, yellow construction vest, looks like some kind
of work boots, semi vacant look on his face. I
(06:26):
saw him. I happened to be wired up for sound,
and as best I could, I went over and had
a conversation, and that one I had a volunteer for
California Free Thought, grab my phone and shoot video. And
again the audio's challenging on his end because he had
freaking Billy Graham blaring. Even when he turned it down.
(06:47):
I was like, Jesus Christ, if you'll pardon the expression.
So there are two debates that if you want to see,
I had discussions, exchanges. They were good faith exchanges. But
if you want to see the guy on wheels, you
want to see a trailer preacher for Jesus wearing the
construction vest on the e bike that's linked in the
(07:09):
description box. The audio I'm going to play for you
here is the kind of a I want to be cool,
but I will never be cool life churchy kind of pastor.
And I have been sent here by Jesus. Forgive the
background noise, but I just wanted to play it for you.
Here we go. Hey, I'm Seth, Seth Rich.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Rich.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
What are you doing here?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
You know, it's a funny question. I was.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
The Lord told me to come down here and start
preaching because I preached to.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
The homeless people. I helped him out.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
I served the floor, and I thought I was coming
down here to preach to the homeless, and then he
led me right over here, and I was like, what
is this little.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Conference going on here?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah? Yeah, And I realized it was a bunch of atheists,
and I was like, Wow, that's why I'm here.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Lord. Maybe I can make the difference.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Why do you think the Lord didn't show up to
represent himself? Why you?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Because he works through people, that's the kingdom of God.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah. But I mean, if God Jesus wants me to
know we exists, all he has to do is to
show up and prove himself. He doesn't really need you.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
See, the Bible says the invisible things from the creation
of the war are clearly seen all around us, so
that we are without excuse. We all have afferent conscience
to know right or wrong, good and evil?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Right? Do you see it as a position of I'm
asking you a question.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
You asked me a question, I answered it.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You have to well, you made a statement that you
got in creation and in conscience, right, Jesus, God has
proven all around us.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Right right, good and evil right, which is.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Why two thirds of the planet believes in a different
God or no God at all. Right. The God who
was not the author of confusion is not doing so well.
So my question is why you and why here? Why me?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
And why here?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Why did it send me here?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I need to have a conversation to save one soul.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
But maybe a change of belief from you know, from
thinking that something can be created at a nothing and
maybe you can turn up before judgment Holmes, because see,
your soul is eternal, and you're.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Going to have You're going to have to Dude, I
came out of Christianity. I was a Christian broadcaster. I
don't you and I are speaking the same language. We
both understand the Gospel, the salvation message. So I appreciate
that you want to give that to me. And but
I already know it.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Okay, but haven't you haven't You haven't experienced the power
of the Lord, goes.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
How do you know that?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Because I can tell by your body language there's no love.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I don't have love in me.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You're you're in your confrontational I can feel your energy.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, no, there is a sound system behind us, and
so you and I are engaging in close proximity, so
you hear each other. I am I'm an atheist, but
more importantly, I'm a humanist. I believe that there is
good without God's I don't think a worthy God would
damn me for living a good life and trying to
find the truth on my terms. And a worthy God
(10:03):
that was all knowing and all powerful would already know
how to prove himself to me without needing an evangelist.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So let me ask you a question. Do you believe
in good and evil?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I believe not in evil with the capital E, but
I believe there are deeds that could be called evil, antisocial, destructive.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Let me ask you a question. We'll break it down
to the least common side. Do you believe lying for
personal gain is good or evil?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I think that's a reductive question.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
No is lying. If someone is lying good.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Here is the scenario that I give in response to that,
because it is not a binary answer. Let's say in abuse,
victims comes to my home and I hide them in
my house, and the abuser knocks on my door and says,
is my wife there to protect her? I lie, and
I say she's not here because my number one concern
is to protect the victim. But that's that's a gain
(11:00):
I have gained, and the victim is gained, And yet
on the surface I lie. Now how does that fit
in the moral puzzle?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Well, it's a personal gain. You're not personally you're protecting somebody.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
But I gain as well. I mean, I'm protecting myself
and my own family. What if he comes in, What
if he's dangerous to all of us. I think it's situational.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
But okay, stealing, what about stealing?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I don't believe that stealing is right. But I'll tell
you this, if someone was in if someone was in
a position where they were starving and they stole a
piece of my read.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
That's okay when it comes to survival, when it comes
to food and you're hungry, And the Bible said.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I believe that murder is wrong. You know, the idea
that murdering people is wrong is a statement that is
made first by and owned by the Christianity is totally bogus.
Like every culture that is predated and post dated, Christianity
has a moral code murderer. Yeah. Sure. This idea that
it's it's a revelation, don't be shitty to people, right,
(12:04):
don't hurt other people, live a good life is not
something that is. It's not rocket science. And Christianity didn't
do it first or didn't do it best.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
The point I'm trying to get to is is there's
moral there's absolute moral standards that we're going to be
judged by it because there's got to be consequences.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
How do you know evil? How do you know where's
the judge? And how do you know that?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Given a conscience to know right or wrong?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
If I have evolved a set of instincts as to
what is antisocial and pro social behaviors, how do you
know that it was put in place by a third
party somewhere? And how do you know it was a
specific agent with a proper name. How do you know that?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Because I know by this world that this world didn't
create itself.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Right, it's I know that building right, that didn't build itself.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I know someone who writes a book over there on
the table, But that book didn't build itself, didn't write it.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
No, I get that. No, I get that. But Islamis
say that it was Allah, and other religions say it
was another. How did you land on a specific deity?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
How did I land on Jesus God?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeahweh whatever is Jehovah. He revealed himself a personal revelation
to you. So if I'm a neutral observer and I'm
at a table and a Muslim says Allah personally revealed
himself to me, and I know in my heart he
is real and he's the creator of all things. If
I'm a neutral observer, then I should take both of
your claims at equal value.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
You're not saying that you have to search out the
truth for yourself. If you're searching for truth, then you'll
be led to the Lord God.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
If you have a.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Hard heart and you don't believe in that a God exists,
and then you form your own belief system, and that's
atheism for you.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Atheism is not a belief system. It's not a creed,
it's not a philosophy. It's simply, I don't believe in
God's I don't buy it. Humanism is my philosophy, and
I think my challenge and one of the reasons I
wanted to engage, is that I find it's presumptuous and
even a bit rude to show up in an event
that we have organized for ourselves.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, I didn't even know I was coming here.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Tell you well, I don't care if you planned it
or not. What I'm saying is this is a space
where these folks have come together for community. You've shown
up with the presumption that we are broken and need
to be fixed. So my response to you is, I
don't care if it's an US or a week question.
Isn't it presumptuous? To show up at somebody else's party
(14:33):
because I didn't know I was doing. I don't care
if you knew in advance. You are walking up to
other people at their event, at their advance, to tell
them that they are broken. I'm not, I'm you just
said we needed to be saved.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
All need to be saved, all of us.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Why do we need to be saved?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Because we are broke in we are sinful, fallen b
again people. So that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Does sin have consequences in your mind?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I don't believe in sin as a as.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
So you don't believe there's any consequences for your actions?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
No, no, no, I don't frame it as sin. I
believe there are moral and immoral behaviors, but I think
sin is a religious construct. Okay, that carries a ton
of theological and superstisha backage.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
So let's go back to absolute marine.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I'm not going to let you take us away from
my first question, which is why would you crash a
party that you were not invited to? Not crashing a
party to tell people that they are broken and need
to be fixed.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I literally was over there having a conversation and you
came and somebody here.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Somebody came over here and introduced me to this group.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
The story you began with was you came their minister
to the homeless, and then you saw us, not that
you got sucked in.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
I walked right through over there, and I was like,
what is this all about?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And I didn't even know, and you didn't turn and
walk away. Why would you come in here to tell
us that we are sinners and we need Jesus when
it's not your game, it's not.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Even preaching to anybody. I got introduced to you.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And him by her.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I was having a conversation over there on the point
you start off preaching to me. I didn't ask you anything.
You brought up Jesus to Okay, I asked you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
You know who the time demographics.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Are what you're saying, why is it you did Kim?
We're having prothetized.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
If I was an atheist who walked into a church
or a fellowship gathering and went point by point to
the people who had come to eat and enjoy music
and spend time together, and I said, what you believe
is wrong, what you believe is wrong, what you believe
is wrong? How would you feel about that.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
If you love somebody, right, if you truly loved somebody
another person more than you love yourself, you would tell
them that Jesus loves you.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You have a very noble accounting of yourself. I mean,
if you love somebody, it's a very noble accounting of it.
So no, I have come because I love you, and
out of selflessness, I am entering your event.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Well now I am because I didn't know what I
was getting like.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, you would be doing all of us a favor
if you would entrust your God to do the job
instead of you deciding to do it for you.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
But he gives you free will. That's why he loves you.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
God who gave me free will, would also make himself undeniable.
I have free will. You have free will. Look at
the trees.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
You have a conscience to know right and wrong, good
and evil.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I have.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Do you know who?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Do you know who has a greater knowledge of the
Bible statistically in this world? It's jew as an atheist.
And you want to know why so many atheists have
walked away from the Christian origin story and the Christian
morality claims is because we know what the Bible says
about it, And because we understand it, we have rejected it.
It makes no sense. We don't need it. And all
(17:55):
of the people that are around you today, we're good.
We're good, we're happy, we're centered, we're filled with purpose.
We love each other. We want to make a better world.
You are fixing what is not broken.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
It is broken it Look around you.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You don't tell you hearing me?
Speaker 3 (18:11):
You don't. You can't see that we're about to enter
into the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
There is you know how many people have made an
end of the world prediction every generation for thousands of years.
The day is nine, the end of the world, is it?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Have you ever heard of the mark of the Beast?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Oh? Yes, I have?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
You know?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Do you know what it is?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Well, everyone says it's something different. What's your take.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
It's a microchip?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh, I know what it is. But is it like
an actual number? Is it a tattoo? It's a micro barcode.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
It's a microchip.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
And what they've been putting in the pharmachia medicines, medicine, medication, vaccines,
is messenger, RNA, nanotechnology and graphine. And so when that
microchip goes online and it's connected to the fire.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
We just took another turn.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
You know, I'm going to tell you we.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Do a whole broadcast on mRNA, vaccine and science.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
This was this is We're the temple of God in
the spirit.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
There were no there were no metals. There are no
conductors in the chemicals of vaccines that could do the
things you're saying they do.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
When you see this going and mandated on everybody. You
know the Bible. You said you know the Bible better
than anyone right now.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I didn't say that. I just said atheists tend to
know it better than your study.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
You said you've done. You've done your study, so you
know the word and it dwells within you. So the
Bible says in Revelation thirteen sixteen that no man will
be able to buy or sell right unless they have
the mark and they're right here for him.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
So what does that mean they won't be able to
buy or sell. Look at where we are today. Through technology.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
We've gone from cash to credit cards, to credit cards
with a chip, to Apple watches.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Now they're coming out with the digital ID.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
No people, no one will be able to work in
European Union unless they have that digital ID. Trump is
now passing an executive order for a digital ID governed
by artificial intelligence governance for everything to surveillance.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Say, which is going to be attached to this?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
So you cannot participate in the global economy. However, the
Bible says that if you take that mark, your soul
will be eternally tortured, because you will have defiled your
temple by putting your faith and trust in the world which.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Has created torture. Who puts me in the torture chain?
No unbelief. If a divine father was to take me
and throw me into a pin, you are rejecting him.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
You would not if a wife you.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Asked somebody out on a date, right, no, no, no, no, no
no no, I'm not gonna let your hook. If you
had a child, and let's say no, no, no, no, no.
If you had a child and your child was strongly disobedient,
and let's say your child denied you, under what circumstance
would you ever create a scenario where that child was
lit a flame.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
If that child said, Dad, you know what, I reject you.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I don't care what your instructions.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You've set it on fire.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
No, he's going to.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Say you know what, son, Go out into the world,
do what you want and learn.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I love you, depart from me.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I love you who are cursed.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I'm into a lake of everlasting fire. You prepared for
the devil and his angels.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
You can dance myself because you have rejected his instructions.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I'm asking, is there any scenario where a father would
allow or want or or create a scenario where the
child He would.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Never want that, So he never want that.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
He hates to do it, but he will earn you.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
See, this is a different spect for God.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
This is a difference, the difference if you don't ask
for forgiveness for your inequity. Right, Jesus loved you so
much that he paid the debt on that cross.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I could give the sermon you're giving, my brother. But
since I could give the sermon you're giving me.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
He paid the debt for your sins. Tell me that's
not love.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Let me ask you this because you know you couldn't.
You believe we are natural. The mark of the beast
is in the Bible, so you believe it's true. You
know what else is in the Bible? Nine hundred year
old people, donkeys that speak Hebrew, a guy that lived
for three days in a submerged prison, fish flying chariots
of fire, slavery, human sacrifice, an unwed teenager impregnated by
(22:22):
a holy spirit via ghost sex, and seven headed prostitute
writing dragons in the Book of Revelation. All those things
are true.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
So you're limiting your knowledge to what you believe in
what you've learned.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So you're saying the same thing to me.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm saying that if I doubt seven a headed prostitute
writing dragons fairy tale, isn't that reasonable? I don't believe
people liveology.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Look at the mythology. Where is dragons come from?
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Why does this the Chinese? Chinese people worship the dragon,
the dragon. Every piece of mythology has an element of
truth to it.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
It's just been I understand that I'm not talking about
an element. I'm not talking about echoes of cultures and
what they believe. I'm not talking about It's almost like
saying Spider Man is real because New York exists. Right.
The mythologies aren't then true, they're just based in they
incorporate various truths. But it's not unreasonable for me to
(23:18):
say I don't believe a donkey spoke Hebrew. I think
that's a reasonable position. Well, Aleem's donkey didn't speak to
him in Hebrew.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Well were you there?
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Are they phoned thoers? Are they found that where they
find it Turkey? Yes they have, they phoned it in Turkey.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Yes they have, they have.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
You know what, we could probably be.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Here all day mostly though, every time the culture has
the account of a deluge of flood, they didn't call
it nos they called it a deluge. Every culture has
the account in their history. How does their The Bible
says it's six thousand, but that's just the one cycle,
one cycle. See, this is going to repeat itself because
(23:59):
it has repeated. It's out because angels have in Heaven
have for you will angel, and you are an angel
trapped in that.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Plus, the Epic of Gilgamesh is a Noah's Art story
that predates Noah's Ark by about a thousand years. Sumarios
loaded with Sameria with flood myths, right.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, and even talks about planet X.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And so there were genre myths. So the fact that
other cultures spoke.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
About So you want a reference born of a virgin
because we're all Zacharai Christian said, there's there's a twin
system that we have out there.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
A planet X is going to come every thirty six
hundred years to destroy the art.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, do you believe that you're you're quoting the Samerian texts.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I'm saying that's what they believed, or that's what they claimed.
Christianity is just simply nothing new. It's borrowed and it's
I think. To doubt it or to say I don't
buy it and I'm good for its own sake is reasonable.
I don't see. This is where I don't need you
to fix me.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Let me agree, Let me agree with you for one second,
kind of I don't believe the Lord God in heaven
this world, So he used.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I don't used. Our journey is about us. We're we're
happy for you. Go live your life. Man. I'm telling him,
this is our party and we're celebrating community and secular
values together. It is hugely presumptuous for you to be
here and try to engage in this way.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Okay, I had no plans to, but you did it.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Whether you plan to or no, I appreciate your verve.
Thank you for being here, but guys, please listen, go
elsewhere guys, listen to the go ye elsewhere there's no love.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
There's no there's no love, you have no love.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I think it's more about boundaries than it is about love,
attacking that you have come in and decided that we
are your mission field and we're just not. Have you
heard the term proselytization is objectification. You have in that
way objectified the people here because they are now objects
that are part of your mission. What we're not. We're
(26:02):
just people, were people good for our own sake. We're happy,
We're good, okay, and I love you guys. All right,
thanks for talking to me.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
All right?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Are you going to preach to me again?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
When that happens? You know that the Bible, particularly.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
When I'm at the judgment seat, I'll drop your name
and I'll said, you know, he did everything he possibly could,
but I just didn't listen.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
I don't want I don't want that to happen.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
No, no one doubts your sincerity. This makes me want
to do what the Street Epistemology crew does. I really
am thinking about setting up a kind of I don't know,
in counter area where everybody can be properly miked and
(26:55):
and have maybe two or three cameras with different advantages
for some color in con text and engage people in goodwill.
I'm I'm not a total jerk. I think I've got
relevant questions. I don't think I was rude. I was direct,
but you know, I'm thinking, would you want that? I
(27:16):
know a lot of people are out there doing it,
but I've done a lot of this casually and I'm
really thinking about doing more of its officially is not
the word, but for the channel, and then you can
watch how engagements go. I'm sure some people are going
to be totally approaching me in goodwill and literal good faith.
Other people are going to be telling me I'm going
(27:37):
to burn and screw you in the name of the Lord.
And there are gonna be some wacky folks out there
who maybe think they're the Messiah. I don't know. I
it would be a fresh thing for me after sixteen
years of activism. I'm just saying I'm thinking about it.
So anyway, I hope you've enjoyed this little bonus, and
(27:59):
I don't know, take it or leave it's I'll catch
you on the next one. Take care.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
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