June 17, 2025 • 62 mins
Fueled by Trumpian rhetoric, American "patriots" often invoke the name of God as they seek to prohibit others from serving in the armed forces.
NOTE: Due to a technical oversight (my error), this week's audio is a bit overmodulated. It'll be corrected for next week.
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NOTE: Due to a technical oversight (my error), this week's audio is a bit overmodulated. It'll be corrected for next week.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/thethinkingatheist--3270347/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
In this country, until the year nineteen ninety three, military
policy strictly forbade non heterosexuals from serving in the armed
forces nineteen ninety three, which is pretty much yesterday in
this country's history, and then in ninety three the don't ask,
(01:19):
don't tell policy was implemented. Now, this only restricted non
heterosexuals from serving if they were open about their sexuality
and sexual identity. So the vibe was hush, hush, keep
it under your hat. Sure, it's nobody's business, but if
(01:40):
you are in some way public, especially if you're public
about maybe I don't know a relationship or you're expressing
yourself and what we consider to be a provocative way,
then you can be investigated by military superiors. Don't Ask,
Don't Tell was repealed in twenty eleven, allowing homosexuals and
(02:03):
bisexuals to openly serve in the United States. In twenty thirteen,
in the Supreme Court decision United States versus Windsor, the
military was required to offer similar benefits to homosexual relationships
as they did to heterosexual ones, fully equal treatment legally
(02:25):
to their partners and families. From nineteen sixty to twenty sixteen,
there was a blanket ban on all transgender people from
enlisting and serving in the military that was struck on
the first of January twenty eighteen. Transgender individuals were allowed
to serve in their identified or assigned gender upon completing transition.
(02:51):
In twenty sixteen, the first openly gay head of any
service in the military was a guy named Eric Fanning.
He became the twenty second Secretary of the Army in
San Francisco. On the sixteenth of August twenty sixteen, the
USNS Harvey Milk was officially named a Navy ship, which
(03:14):
was christened at a ceremony in San Francisco. Harvey Milk,
the openly gay civil rights leader, had served as a
diving officer in the Navy from nineteen fifty one to
nineteen fifty five. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is having that
ship renamed. He says, we are not interested in naming
ships after activists, despite the fact that Harvey Milk was
(03:39):
a Navy lieutenant who served during the Korean War and
became the first to openly gay man elected to public
office in California before he was assassinated one year later.
This guy was awarded posthumously the Presidential Medal of Freedom
in two thousand and nine, and yet Pete Hegseth said, no,
(04:01):
I want you to strike Harvey Milk from that ship
and we will name it something else. Other ships targeted
in the same way, including the John Lewis class vessels,
which were named for Supreme Court Justice third Good Marshal
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Harriet Tubman. This is all
(04:21):
framed as an anti woke, anti DEI effort to restore
military greatness. This administration today has argued trans service members
have a false gender identity, which conflicts with the Armed
Forces standards of integrity. They are negatively impacting the military's lethality, readiness,
(04:45):
and cohesion. A June sixth deadline was sent for active
duty transgender service members to volunteer to leave and get
some benefits, and then trans people would be forced out
or quote involuntarily separated. Reserve members have until July the seventh.
(05:10):
Here's a short clip, and I'm going to play a
lot more from Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, IRAQ war veteran.
She was talking about Trump's removal of trans people from
the armed forces. This is from two months ago on
CBS Chicago.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Illinois Senator in a rock war veteran Tammy Duckworth reacts
this morning to President Trump's tweet that transgender people will
no longer be allowed to serve in the US military.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
When I was bleeding to death in my helicopter after
that RPG ripped through the cockpit of the aircraft and
an American came to save my life, it didn't matter
to me if they were gay, if they were straight,
if they were transgendered. It only mattered that they wore
the uniform of the United States Military.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
As much as I hate to read anything supposedly written
by Donald Trump and posted on the Trump at Administration's
White House page. We know Trump didn't write anything. I'm
about to read, and I'm just going to do a
few short sections. But we know it wasn't him because
these are complete sentences, coherent thoughts, as tragic as they are.
(06:14):
Nothing's in all caps, and at no point does he
call anybody horse face. The purpose of the military is
a clear mission to protect the American people and our
homeland as the world's most lethal and effective fighting force.
Success in this existential mission requires a singular focus on
(06:35):
developing the requisite warrior ethos, and the pursuit of military
excellence cannot be diluted to accommodate political agendas or other
ideologies harmful to unit cohesion. Recently, however, the armed forces
have been afflicted with radical gender ideology to appease activists
(06:57):
unconcerned with the requirements of military serve like physical and
mental health, self lessness, and unit cohesion. Jesus Pete Budages
served as the nineteenth US Secretary of Transportation from twenty
twenty one to twenty twenty five. He also was a mayor.
(07:17):
He was the thirty second mayor of South Bend, Indiana.
He is also a former Navy officer. Budajees is one
of my favorite people in the world. I wish you
would run for president. And I know a lot of
people are having conversations about how electable he is. But
he's just so smart and he's so good at what
he does. And then he goes on Fox News and
(07:41):
sits down in the crosshairs as everybody tries to ambush him,
and he just wipes the floor with him. It's awesome. Anyway.
He was an intelligence officer in the US Navy Reserve,
became a lieutenant. He was mobilized and deployed to Afghanistan
for seven months and twenty four team Beat the bootash
(08:02):
Ash of course, is gay and has a husband. He
was on a talk show recently and he was talking
about how labels don't really matter all that much in
the arena of combat.
Speaker 6 (08:14):
I mean, again, I think back to the military, like
if I was getting in a vehicle to go outside
the wire, like the other people getting in the vehicle
with me definitely did not care if I was a
Republican or a Democrat, or like what country my dad
immigrated from, or if I'm going to home to a
girlfriend him. I'm really excited for the next hour. We're
(08:36):
going to talk about molt about Like all they wanted
to know obviously was that they could trust me to
do my job same thing, you know, vice versa, because
we're trusting each other every time we went outside the wire.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
To be clear, I was not into like a combat
or maneuver.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You know.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
My job was just to like drive them safely to
where they needed to go. But that that could be scared.
It does have risk, and not everybody should be in
the military, but like everybody should be in environments where
you know people as people first.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Now much has been said about the warrior ethos. Pete
hag Seth, Defense secretary and former Fox News Weekend Houst
talks a lot about the warrior ethos. I went to
the US Army website just to find out what that is,
and there's a page about the values of the US
(09:29):
Army warrior ethos. I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat, I will never quit, I
will never leave a fallen comrade. There's a soldier's creed.
Let's see what it says. I'm an American soldier, I'm
a warrior and a member of a team. I serve
the people of the United States. I live the Army values.
(09:51):
I will always place the mission first. I will never
accept defeat. I will never quit. I will never leave
a fallen comrade. I am disciplined, physically and mentally, tough,
trained and proficient, and my warrior tasks and drills. I
always maintain my arms, my equipment, and myself. I'm an expert,
and I'm a professional. I stand ready to deploy, engage,
(10:15):
and destroy the enemies of the United States of America
in close combat. I'm a guardian of freedom and the
American way of life. There are other creeds. I see
an NCO creed, a ranger creed, the Army song, the
oath of enlistment. I'm going to spare you all those,
but you get it. I will be loyal, I will
train hard. I will never leave a man or a
(10:37):
woman behind. So why in the world wouldn't LGBT people
be able to serve without being discriminated against? And don't
kid yourself. All non headeroes are in the crosshairs. They're
starting with trans people, but it's not about just trans people.
This is about people who are non HEATERO and the
(10:57):
eventual charge to remove them, probably as somebody waves that
American flag and screams the name of God again on
the warrior athos. This is US Representative Sarah Jacobs of
the fifty first Congressional District of California. She was just
(11:18):
recently at a House Armed Services Committee hearing and she
was speaking to defend Secretary Pete Hegseth.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Check this out, Secuary heg Seth.
Speaker 7 (11:27):
As you probably know, today is National Women's Veterans Day,
and in your confirmation hearing and in subsequent conversations, you've said,
and I'm quoting you, now, women in our military have
and continue to make amazing contributions across all aspects of
our battlefield, and that women were some of the best
soldiers you served with. Do you still stand by those statements? Yes, great,
(11:50):
thank you. As you probably know, I represent San Diego,
the biggest military community in the country, so I meet
with countless service members all the time. And with your
focus on emphasis on merit and standards, I wanted to
tell you about three incredible women in our military. So
the first woman is a major responsible for advanced collective
(12:12):
war fighting training. Her officer evaluation report rates her as
most qualified, and some of the comments included are, and
I'm quoting now, she lives the Army values and demonstrates
the warrior ethos daily. She rates within the top five
percent of officers I've encountered in eighteen years of military service.
(12:32):
The second woman is an aviator with a record of
over fifty combat missions, including deployments to Iraq in Afghanistan.
Two quotes from her most recent fitness report in April
quoting again, people excel under her leadership and she has
my strongest possible recommendation for promotion. The third woman is
(12:53):
an instructor for an Army ROTC battalion. According to her
evaluation report, her overall performance was rated at far exceed standards,
and the comments include she is undoubtedly within the top
five percent of non commission officers I've worked with in
my twenty two years of service. Given their stellar qualifications
and accomplishments, and their record of surpassing standards, I assume
(13:17):
that you agree that the Pentagon and the Services should
do everything they can to retain women like these.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Correct.
Speaker 8 (13:24):
I would commend the major, the aviator, and the instructor
for their service.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Great.
Speaker 7 (13:29):
I'm glad you agree. Because I also believe we should
be recruiting and retaining the very best and brightest in
our country to serve in the military. And yet you
are actually kicking out these three highly qualified service members
solely because of their identity. These are trans women, and
you are using the very same arguments that have been
used against desegregating the military, or allowing women to serve,
(13:53):
or allowing.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Gay people to serve.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
And in all those cases those arguments were wrong. So
I think it's clear that this is actually not about
standards or and I'm quoting you again, an equal, unwavering,
gender neutral, merit based system, because if it were, you
would be keeping these women in. Instead, you are the
one injecting culture wars into the military, and it's at
(14:17):
the detriment of our military readiness and national security. Now,
General Kin, i'd like to turn to you.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Should be clear, these are these are men who think
they're women. These are women.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
I'm happy to educate you on, uh, these are men.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
What we've identified is that there's mental health issues. I'd
like to leave system.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I'd like to turn to General or detrimental to readiness.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
And that's the determination that we've made and that we
stand behind gender to.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
Forces, and so you don't don't You don't trust your
commanding officers to be able to evaluate the people under
them to decide if this, if that were true, wouldn't
that show up in their fit reps? And yet these
fit reps are from the last three months, and all
of their commanding officers say that they exceed standards.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Here are the words of Commander Emily Shilling, a US
naval aviator who was also an out transgender woman.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Look, I just want to keep serving.
Speaker 8 (15:07):
I'm at nineteen and a half years, I have sixty
combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm a certified test
pilot flown over twenty one airframes at seventeen hundred flight
hours in aircraft like the F eighteen that you saw
on top Gun two.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I just want to keep doing my job.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Of course, we've got Project twenty twenty five, which was
authored by people who have been declaring LGBT marriage non heterosexuality,
these unholy unions between the sodomites. These are markers for
America's moral collapse. Remember back when Trump said I don't
know anything about it, I don't really care, and then
(15:46):
you watch his administration how many people that are part
of the Trump White House are also critical parts of
Project twenty twenty five. Just a few days ago, the
Southern Baptist Convention just passed a resolution supporting a concerted
effort to repeal same sex marriage. As we approach the
(16:07):
ten year anniversary of that historic decision by the Supreme
Court which required states to issue marriage licenses to same
sex couples and to recognize same sex marriages. Oh no,
the Southern Baptist Convention says it is now going to
commit all of its powers, are much of its powers
(16:28):
to building a coalition of anti gay marriage proponents. And
here we go again. By the way, this was a
story that broke Actually I saw it on Hemmet Meta's
Friendly Atheist sub stack about a guy who works in
it for the Oklahoma state governments. Turns out he's also
(16:52):
a preacher. You know what kind of a church he
preaches for? Try the new independent fund Dementalist Baptists. Now
you've heard about, or maybe you've heard about hate preacher
Stephen Anderson. He's probably the most famous. These guys are
the ones who stand in front of a podium on
a small stage and they've got like a wheat Field
(17:13):
Mural behind them, and they've got maybe one hundred people
in their immediate local congregation. Most of their audience is
on social media. They broadcast this hate everywhere and they
go hard I mean they are hardline Old Testament. God
wants to rain sulfur and pain and death on LGBT people,
(17:35):
and we are so glad that is what they are.
Speaker 9 (17:39):
Like.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Okay, this is the preach sermons all the time about
and celebrate the potential execution of non heterosexual people. Oh lookie,
there's a guy who works it for the state of Oklahoma.
His name is Dylan oz I guess that's how you
say it, Awes. He preaches at a church called Anchor
(18:02):
Baptist Church part time. So I got a state job
over here, and now I'm going to go over to
Anchor Baptist Church and I'm going to preach my sermons
calling for executing gay people. In fact, the government should
execute gay people. Quote, they should be lined up against
the wall and shot in the back of the head.
That's what God teaches, That's what the Bible says. He
(18:24):
says homosexuals are pedophiles. He says sodomites are responsible for
school shootings. Gay people are full of disease. They are predators.
He uses the f slur for non heterosexuals. They should
get a bullet in their brain. This guy working for
(18:44):
the government in an it capacity, the state of Oklahoma
paying this man, and it took his fellow state workers
how long to find out or figure out or even
care that he was doing it. This is part of
a larger movement against anyone and everyone who is not white,
conservative Evangelical Protestant, probably male Christian nationalists. Of course, we
(19:10):
cannot ignore the racial aspect of discrimination in the armed forces,
especially knowing Donald Trump's administration working hard to restore the names,
the reputations, and the monuments to racist war generals, Confederate icons, etc.
Their statues removed from public squares. He wants them back.
(19:32):
He wants military bases renamed for these Confederate racists. Really,
and CBS this morning, they had a feature just a
few years ago on how we still see the echoes
the footprint of race based discrimination throughout the American military.
Speaker 10 (19:51):
In a twenty nineteen survey, more than half of people
of color serving in uniform said they had personally witnessed
white nationalism or racism in the military. According to the
Defense Department, around seventeen percent of US troops identify themselves
as black. We spoke with several former active duty service
members of different races and religions about their experiences.
Speaker 11 (20:13):
And as a black woman, I had to wonder, Okay,
is this happening because I have overis or is it
because I have melany.
Speaker 10 (20:19):
Ten year Army veteran Mary Tobin says racism in the
ranks often isn't camouflaged. But as a student leader at
West Point, Tobin had to inspect cadet's rooms.
Speaker 11 (20:30):
You come in with a white glove and of course
you check for dirt, and.
Speaker 10 (20:34):
She quickly found a red flag.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Two white men who were roommates.
Speaker 11 (20:38):
I walked in and there was a very large Confederate flag.
I saw the flag. I looked at them, They looked
at me, and I could tell they were trying to
get a reaction out of me. That happened two more times,
and finally I had a discussion with them and told
them about how that felt for me as a black
woman from the South, coming into the room every inspection
(20:59):
is seeing that flo It hurt me dearly.
Speaker 10 (21:02):
Now nearly two decades later, the Confederate flag is no
longer allowed at West Point, but Tobin says reminders of
that painful past remained.
Speaker 11 (21:11):
One example is the name of a barracks named after
General Lee.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I lived in that.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
In those barracks at West Point, there's Lee Barracks, There's
Lee Gate, There's Lee Rod, there's Roberty Lee Housing Area.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Enough.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Donald Trump very recently speaking at Fort Bragg, I find
it interesting that a five time draft dodger, commander bone
Spurs likes to play soldier. I just find that fascinating. Anyway,
he's speaking at Fort Bragg. He said, can you believe
they changed that name in the last administration for a
little bit? Fort Bragg is in that's the name, and
(21:48):
Fort Braggitt shall always remain. That's never going to be
happening again. Of course, Fort Bragg was named to honor
the Confederate General Brexton Bragg. It was renamed Fort La Liberty,
and now it has reverted. Trump has said the original
names will be restored to Fort Gordon in Georgia, Fort
(22:08):
ap Hill in Virginia, Fort Hood in Texas, Fort Lee
in Virginia, Fort Pickett in Virginia, Fort Polk in Louisiana
and Fort Rucker in Alabama. By the way, military dot
Com revealed that there was a pre screening for soldiers
(22:30):
as a requirement to attend Donald Trump's speech. Here's a
clip from WRL News.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Steve Bainen is a national security correspondent for Military dot Com.
Manon looked into who was chosen to sit behind the president.
Internal communication within the eighty second Airborn Division outlined specific directives.
Those include soldiers sitting in the bleachers are to be
fit and not look fat, and soldiers with political views
(22:59):
in opposite dition who don't want to be there need
to get swapped out well.
Speaker 12 (23:03):
But even when a step further, there was a Trump
merchandise shop, this whole like pop up shop, it's called
a campaign three sixty five that was selling T shirts
and shosh keys and all sorts of memorabilia.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
In a statement to WRIL, an eighteenth Airborne Corps spokesperson wrote,
the Army does not endorse political merchandise or the views
it represents. The vendor's presence is under review to determine
how it was permitted and to prevent similar occurrences in
the future.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Pretty unbrand for Donald Trump. To bring a freaking gift shop.
But the whole idea is that the military is non partisan,
non political. They represent all Americans. After the break standing by,
I've got somebody with an insider's perspective. Soon he'll be
outside the military because he's getting the boot. Doctor Ben
(23:58):
Hamilton is a doctor, science educator, and atheist activist. We're
going to talk to Ben next. I want a frontline,
firsthand perspective specific to the military. My first choice right
(24:20):
at the top of my list, Doctor Ben Hamilton, who
joins me here, Hey, Don, thanks for coming.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Hey, thanks for having me on Big Fan.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Tell everybody real fast kind of who you are and
what you do.
Speaker 9 (24:33):
Yeah. So, I am a Doctor of Osteopath of Medicine AKADO,
equivalent to an MD in the United States. I'm currently
on administrative leave with the military, have been with them
for two years in the army as a physician. But
I'm also on the Internet doing shows like Medical Myths,
The Transatlantic Collin Show, and Talk Heathen. Because I'm also
(24:55):
a transperson and an outspoken atheist.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Here on this platform, trans people have been a convenient
villain among many other villains for the culture. Certainly this
administration give me your perspective on current events. I know
it's a broad question, but what's the vibe. How are
you feeling?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
The vibe is definitely toxic.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
It's definitely an angle of us not being wanted, and
they know how to play the game to get their
objective across without actually following the steps. It's very much
let's try to get all of them out as quickly
as possible with as little legal intervention throughout the way.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Tell me about this ban. I will call it a ban.
They call it what a voluntary resignation of transgender people
from the military. Is that what they're calling it.
Speaker 9 (25:45):
Yeah, it's absolutely wild, they're calling it it. So there's
a voluntary separation and involuntary separation. Typically, if you volunteer
to separate, that's a big no no, you don't do that.
That's like you're giving up or commission, you're giving up
your contract. It's like it's a breach of contract normally
if you do that. But in this case, it's better
(26:08):
to voluntarily separate. Essentially, if you out yourself as a
transperson and you say, okay, I will leave, they will
give you two times separation pay. If you're greater than
six years of service, they will wipe your contract so
you don't owe any more time. They'll let you keep
all of your retention bonuses prior to February twenty twenty five,
(26:31):
and you will be guaranteed an honorable discharge. On the
flip side if you don't out yourself, if they go
through your medical records, which is what they're threatening to do,
is to go through people's medical records, have their doctors
out them as having a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and
in that case, you will be booted. They're saying that
(26:51):
you'll get your regular separation pay again, only if you're
six years or past that. Anyone before that does not
get anything, and presumably you're going to have to owe
back whatever money they gave you, and possibly like financial recoupment,
like in my case, they paid for medical school, which
is about three hundred thousand dollars that I would owe them,
(27:13):
so if I involuntarily separated, they would make me probably.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Pay that back. It's blackmail, absolutely, it absolutely is.
Speaker 9 (27:21):
And the weird thing about this too is they are
framing this legally as it's not a ban on trans people,
it's a ban on gender dysphoria. They're trying to say
it's a medical reason. However, they're not giving us a
medical discharge. They're not going about it the way they
would for any other medical condition. And if they want
(27:42):
to say that gender dysphoria is equivalent to depression, anxiety,
et cetera, there are ways already for people with severe
depression to either stay in or get out of the military.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
That's already set up in the system.
Speaker 9 (27:57):
But to make matters worse as well, it's not just
if you currently have gender dysphoria, it's if you have
ever had gender dysphoria or if you have ever attempted
to change your sex.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And that's how they are defining it gender dysphoria. How
would you define that for this audience.
Speaker 9 (28:16):
Yeah, gender dysphoria essentially best described as like an incoherence
between your sex and how you identify with your sense
of self and sis gender people can also have gender dysphoria.
So if you are a male and you get a
hair transplant, that is gender affirming care because the idea
(28:36):
of looking more masculine alleviates some distress related to perceived gender.
So people who get breast augmentations that's also usually to
alleviate gender dysphoria. So it's that discomfort we get when
people misidentify what our gender is.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I just at the beginning of the show was reading
from the official White House page and it it also
made some I won't even say implications. It just set
out right something about wanting to restore unit cohesion and
dedication and bravery encourage the messages that people who are trans.
(29:15):
And you and I both know that it's going to
then spill into all non heteros. But the idea is
that you can't be courageous, you can't have a cohesive unit,
a family bond, you might leave a man or woman behind.
That's the message, right.
Speaker 9 (29:32):
Yeah, which is hilarious because we have throughout my networking
within the trans military community, we have kernels who are
in theater that are getting pulled from their units. You
have people who have multiple combat deployments, you people with
multiple achievement awards. You're pulling people with high levels of skill,
(29:52):
You're pulling senior leaders, You're pulling people with decades upon
decades of experience that it takes a long time, lot
of money to produce people of that caliber. And you're
pulling them because you think that they are going to
cause disruption. However, when asked in the court cases like
how many people were causing these disruptions, they couldn't give
(30:14):
any data on it. And it would seem that if
people were causing a disruption that would be known, we
would know about it.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
You realize you and I both have the same challenge.
You can't really control who's in your comments section. I'm
not sure that you really want to unless you get
abuse of people in there. But this has become such
a hot button political football. One side over here saying
transphobe and the other side over here is screaming gender cult.
You've heard that one, right, This is an ideological thing.
(30:43):
You're just part of a cult. Maybe you are broken
in some way. How do you deal? How do you
respond or do you respond to those kinds of accusations?
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (30:51):
Yeah, most of the time I don't respond to them.
I'd stay clear of my comment section. But obviously I'm
on a call in show where people'll talk to us
about trans issues, and a lot of it is bridging
this gap of just humanizing people. I think a lot
of what this ideology war comes down to is us
(31:13):
versus them and human or not human. And for some reason,
if we can make trans people seem less human, then
they're way easier to fight against. And I think a
lot of people just don't understand that trans people are
just people.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Well, you and I could spend a whole lot of
time over here. Let's draw back. Let me draw back
to the military. How do your fellow soldiers treat you?
How have your fellow soldiers treated transgender people, non binary,
LGBT people, non heteros, How are they approached and what
is often considered to be kind of a hardline, chest
(31:50):
thumping masculinity culture.
Speaker 9 (31:52):
Yeah, in my experience, it's been overwhelmingly positive. I think
most commands want to keep unit cohesion and the best
way to do that is by respecting everybody.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
For the past several years, the.
Speaker 9 (32:05):
Army has had initiatives in place for equal opportunity, and
they have at least they previously had a mandatory training
that everybody had to go to about hey, don't discriminate
against other people. And of course you have a couple
here and there are people that will tough and puff
about it, but for the most part, commands are very respectful.
My command has always been like, they've been willing to
(32:29):
let me be a hee him and wear the clothes
that I wear, and they've been completely respectful. My unit
has not made a huge deal out of it at
all until now. But even after the band went in
place where they said, hey, you can't use the improper
pronouns for people, meaning you're supposed to call people by
their birth sex, my command never switched. They never started
(32:49):
misgendering me, and from my perspective, there was no issue
with me integrating into the unit like anybody else. I
was treated exactly the same way.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Be a bit of a cliche, but in my mind,
I'm thinking, you know, the bunks at boot camp and
the showers, may these conversations that are being had when
it comes to trans people, etc.
Speaker 9 (33:12):
Yeah, it's awkward because per the regulation, you have to
use facilities based on your gender marker in the system
which it was that you could change that and then
as soon as you change your gender marker you were
able to bunk with whoever you identified with. In my case,
my gender marker never changed because I had some reasons
(33:35):
for not fully changing that yet, largely related to like
fitness tests and like body composition, which gets really sticky.
But so I've been bunking with the women and using
the facilities of women. But a lot of time when
there was another option to use a gender neutral space,
my command would offer for me to use that space.
(33:57):
So there are certain accommodations that can be made. It's
not always guaranteed, but that is probably the hardest thing
is if your gender marker wasn't changed, that you still
had to abide by those rules.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
At the Weekend Reason conference that I recently attended in Canada,
doctor Aaron DeVore is an internationally recognized leader in transgender
studies and he's been studying and teaching about this stuff
since the early nineteen eighties. He brought up a point
from the stage I hadn't considered as much because I'm
you know, I've got an outside in perspective. But it
(34:32):
wasn't just about the discomforts of people who were in
the bunks and the showers when a transgender person comes in,
But it's also about the safety and well being of
the transgender person, right, I mean, how much do you
feel like am I going to get my ass kicked?
Are they going to Is there going to be physical harm?
Will there be other consequences when you enter something like that,
(34:53):
especially in a close quarters unit like that. Are these
conversations you've had in your own head.
Speaker 9 (34:59):
Yes, And from my side, it's a bit less risky
being in women's spaces. I've noticed that cisgender women are
way less likely to at least engage in violence.
Speaker 13 (35:11):
On that.
Speaker 9 (35:11):
I've had kind of some awkward times where people are like,
this is the women's storm, and I'm like, I have
to be here. But other than that, like once I
told them they were pretty cool. But I think a
lot of the danger comes from the men's barracks, especially
with regard to trans women. They're the highest risk for violence,
specifically because of cis gender men and their desire to
(35:33):
prove their masculinity with physical violence.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
So I would have a lot more.
Speaker 9 (35:38):
Of those fears, honestly if I was in the male
dorms than if I was in the female But I've
definitely had those thoughts, and especially like even outside the military,
going into men's bathrooms, I do have that thought quite frequently.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
You're worried that somebody who has very primitive ideas of
what manhood is is going to who then become somehow
threatened by somebody who is not quite like them or
who doesn't validate their idea. You know, Donald Trump is
that way very much. You know, He's always sort of
expressing outwardly this this notion of masculinity, the warrior culture.
(36:16):
And of course you and I are like five deferments,
you know, Commander bone Spurs. What's the military saying? This
is a broader question. What are people in the armed
forces saying about all this bullshit, whether it's the you know,
the Kim Jong un type parades and him walking around
playing soldier? Does anybody talk about this?
Speaker 9 (36:38):
The people that I've talked with are really not in
favor of all this going on. I guess the side
of the military that I've been on with, you know,
being medical and then also my current unit, if you will,
is the is a chemical unit, so kind of the
nerdy side. But I know from the more combat arm
side of things, they can be a bit more conservative,
(37:01):
and by a bit, I mean a lot more conservative.
I personally haven't heard anything specifically about their view on
the parades and everything, but there are some pretty hardcore Trumpers,
like in the force.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I've been fortunate not to run into them.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
A whole lot, So all transgender people are out period.
Speaker 9 (37:21):
Well, anyone that has come out of the closet at all.
There's technically this is something interesting. There technically is a waiver,
but it's not a real waiver. It's just in there
for legal reasons because it says that you can stay
in if you've never had a diagnosis of gender dysphoria
and if you've never had medical intervention on the grounds
(37:42):
of being trans. So basically, if you're in the closet,
you're fine. So basically, the waivers only there to protect
people who are not actually trans.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So if someone has had gender reassignment surgery and is
totally under everybody's radar, they could skate through. Do you
think they could be under that radar and finish out
whatever term in the military they wanted to finish.
Speaker 9 (38:06):
They possibly could if the administration does not go through
their medical records, which of course is a breach of HIPPA.
They should not be allowed to do this. Doctors should
not be outing anybody to anybody, like there's that confidentiality
that you're supposed to have, and really the only job
of military medicine should be hey, are you able to
(38:27):
do your job or not, but if they're going to
use the medical system against people, that could be one
way that they would be outed. It would take a
while probably for them to be dug up like that,
but I think this administration may be barbaric enough to
go through with that.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
And if they are seen to have been dishonest, bad agents, etc.
Then they get kicked out and they get no benefits.
They get you know, there's nothing, and they say you
owe all the debt of the moneies that we paid
for and then they're really hosed.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (38:58):
Absolutely, So it's it's a big risk for somebody taking
that route.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
What's your intuition. I know it's a subjective opinion, but
you've got an insider's view. Are all non headeros next?
Speaker 3 (39:13):
I think so.
Speaker 9 (39:14):
And I think it's kind of a toss up whether
it's going to be gay people next or if it's
going to be women next. But one of the two
groups is definitely going to be next on the chopping block.
We're already seeing steps to try to remove women from
combat arms specialties, so trying to keep women in an
admin role, and I could see that going to trying
(39:34):
to keep women out of the military in general.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
So one of the common things that we're hearing out
there is that the male primate is largely going to
be bigger in frame, more muscle mass, more physical strength. Therefore,
it should be males in the arena of combat. It
should be men who are the warriors out on the
front lines for defending the country and defeating our enemies,
(40:01):
and women are simply too weak.
Speaker 9 (40:03):
How would you respond to that, Yeah, I would say
that you can't base decisions about an individual on averages.
This is an ecological fallacy, and I like to use
this for the trans people in sports argument as well.
You have an average that people will cite. However, people
span that entire range of what is humanly possible, and
(40:23):
you have to make these decisions based on the individual.
So if you have super super able bodied women that
are completing ranger school, that are completing jump school, that
are doing all these things that are required to do
some high speed jobs in the military, why are you
going to say that they shouldn't be allowed to do it.
They are meeting the same standards as men. So why
are you penalizing those people who do meet the qualifications
(40:46):
and saying that, well, but the average is lower than you.
So you must be within that average.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
You pass the test, you met the requirement. That seem's
pretty basic to me. Ben, what happens to you next
they're kicking you out? You're a physician, What do you
go into private practice?
Speaker 7 (41:05):
What?
Speaker 9 (41:06):
So? I'm still in the midst of my training, so
I completed my internear, but I still have to get
board certified. I'm technically licensed to practice independently. However, most
insurances don't like to cover physicians that are not board certified.
So my plan is essentially to figure out these next
(41:28):
basically as next year, reapply to residency on the civilian side,
and then go live the rest of my life and
be happy as a civilian physician.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
You think we're going to see a reversal, Let's say,
if we're not burning cinders by the midterms and then
finally it just seems like twenty twenty eight just seems
like next century to me. But do you have any
intuition that maybe there will be a course correction down
the way? Maybe you know, in my lifetime. I don't know.
(41:57):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (41:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 10 (41:59):
I know.
Speaker 9 (42:00):
So as far as this administration, there are Dems trying
to pass a bill preventing discrimination within the military against
gender identity. I don't think that's going to pass. I'm
not hopeful that's going to pass. If we have a
great midterm election, maybe they'll bring that again and maybe
we'll see that overturned.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
I still think it's unlikely.
Speaker 9 (42:21):
I think it's unlikely that the Supreme Court is going
to intervene in any positive way. So I think more
than likely what will happen is we will get kicked out.
The next administration will come in, they may try to
reverse the executive order, and most of the trans.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
People will say, fuck off. I don't want to come back.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
It's funny. You can burn a house down in fifteen minutes,
but it takes like, you know, six months to rebuild it,
and I feel like the damage being done is just
so intense. The rebuilding is going to be such a
long game. Doctor Ben Hamilton of the Medical Myths Channel,
also co host of Talk Heath and the Transatlantic Collins Show.
(43:02):
For your insigner's perspective, you are much appreciated. I'm sorry
that what is happening is happening, but you certainly have
supporters and family here, and this is information that helps
us at least to be better informed as we move forward.
So thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
On the subject of women in the military. Now I
mentioned Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, elected back in twenty sixteen.
She's an Iraq War veteran, Purple Heart recipient and former
Assistant Secretary of the United States Department of Veteran Affairs.
She was among the first of a handful of Army
(43:41):
women to fly combat missions during Operation Iraqi Freedom. She
served in the Reserve Forces for twenty three years before
retiring as a lieutenant colonel in twenty fourteen. Again, she
is in the Senate. And for anybody who thinks she
was a dei hire even all those decades ago, she
was the co pilot of a UH sixty Blackhawk helicopter
(44:04):
when she was struck by an RPG. The aircraft went down.
She lost her right leg near the hip and her
left leg below the knee. She was the first American
female double amputee from the Iraq War that injury sustained
back in two thousand and four. Today she is a
senator and a few years ago and if you won
(44:25):
an example of the culture shift from inclusivity a country
in a military that looks like all of us to exclusivity,
that sort of has that caricature of what the warrior is.
This is Senator Duckworth from five years ago. She was
on stage speaking to an audience at the Elliott School
(44:47):
of International Affairs.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
When I was in flight school, I was only female
in my particular class, and the instructors would come up
to me all the times. Do you have any other
women that you know that would apply to military flights?
We to become helicopter pilots because women make better natural
pilots than men. On Day one has to do with
multitasking ability. You get a guy and you tell them
to take that bridge or take that outlet.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Machine gun's nest. He's like laser focus. He's going to
do that.
Speaker 5 (45:13):
But if you need someone who can fly the aircraft
that takes both hands posed feet, listen to three different
radio shadows, read the map, talk to your crew in
the back, so you talk through the aircraft over there
and make sure you don't get lost.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
You want a woman.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
And they're disagreement, Yeah, so they stay found. So they're
always trying to get more women to ply, but the
women never apply. No, one was preventing the women from applying.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
They just never apply because they never thought of themselves
as being pilots.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
And I think that's what happens.
Speaker 5 (45:41):
A lot among women and minority candid It's just that
you see certain images of what this person is and
you don't see your face in that position, of someone
who looks like you in that position. So then you
don't go after it because you don't think of that
as a possibility. And we have to break those barriers,
but then we have to be able to image that.
(46:02):
And so that's what I say to folks is you know,
just try it and if you fail, so what, get
back up and try it again. Try to be that ambassador.
There's no reason that an ambassador needs to be a
white man. An ambassador can be anyone. And in fact,
some of the best ambassadors we have with the ones
who have the cultural backgrounds for the countries that they're
going to represent.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
But under the current regime, would women feel comfortable applying
to the armed forces? The Trump administration right now has
not a single woman in a four star general or
admiral leadership position, not one. We had the departure aka
(46:45):
firing of Admiral Linda Fagan. She was the first woman
to lead the Coast Guard. She was appointed by Biden
back in twenty twenty two. On Trump's first day in office,
she was fired. Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois said that
Fagan was more qualified to serve in her role than
Pete Hegseth is to be Defense Secretary. She said Trump
(47:09):
would rather appear anti woke than keep our military strong.
Admiral Fagan had had almost a forty year career. She
had served on all seven continents in high ranking roles
like Pacific Area Commander, District and Sector Commander, and Marine Inspector.
And while certainly she was a human being and her
(47:31):
tenures were far from perfect, this idea that she was
ill qualified for the position, and I think throwing DEEI
out there really exposed their hand. Well, no wonder Donald
Trump wanted her gone. Also this year, Pete Hegseth dismissing
Lieutenant General Jennifer Short, the senior military assistant to the
(47:54):
Secretary of Defense. She was a C one thirty navigator
and an eight ten pilot, served for less than a
year in her job, and she was handed her hat.
Also Talita Crossland, former head of the military's Defense Health Agency,
was forced to retire after a thirty two year career.
(48:15):
These are just a few examples. By the way, women
did not officially serve in the Armed forces until President
Harry Truman signed the Women's Armed Service Integration Act in
June of nineteen forty eight, which allowed women to have
permanent status in the Armed Forces. And here we are
(48:35):
seventy seven years later and going backwards. It seems I'm
going to play some kind of special for you to
finish out the last segment of the broadcast. I'd mentioned
civil rights activist and veteran the late Harvey Milk. Well,
he gave a historic speech and the words of that
(48:57):
speech were recreated in an epic way. I can't think
of a better way to climax the broadcast, so we
will play that for you next. Appreciate you so much.
Thank you for your support Patreon, becoming a YouTube member,
(49:20):
and buying swag on the Thinking Atheist store. I got
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(49:40):
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Just go to the Thinkingatheist dot com and you will
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So do a little retail therapy, do a little shopping,
and thanks so much for the support. Today we are
talking about discrimination in the United States military. Now on
(50:05):
a related note, in Hungary, I know we're talking about
the States, but this matters. Donald Trump loves Victor Orbon,
the Prime Minister of Hungary, which has been a human
rights night. Mayre Orbon and his government have been waging
war on LGBT people across the board. They have banned pride,
(50:30):
even though people go out and hold pride events anyway,
they've banned. They pass this draconian law that said it
is illegal to hold pride and similar events. So the
right to assembly, free assembly, that's gone for a massive
demographic Hungary has also adopted a repressive law banning the
(50:50):
quote portrayal and promotion of LGBT content to children, which
means pretty much everywhere right where do you go where
there's there aren't kids. And these gay people and trans
people are a threat to our children. Now familiar does
that sound? We got Project twenty twenty five types, the
(51:10):
Christian nationalist types, the authoritarians, all of these people they
do what they do under the guys, Well, it's just
about protecting the most vulnerable among us. We must be
the gatekeepers and keep all the achy different, sodomite, wicked
people out right. That's essentially how they justify their hatred
(51:32):
and the laws that are built on that hatred. And
I just find it interesting because Donald Trump wants to
be the Victor Orbond of the United States of America.
How terrifying is that. I mentioned Harvey Milk earlier in
the broadcast. Well, he gave a famous speech way back
(51:53):
on Gay Freedom Day, the twenty fifth of June nineteen
seventy eight, and he gave this speech on the steps
of San frand Cisco City Hall. I was looking for
the speech and his words, and I couldn't find anything
that wasn't over produced with a bunch of music and
dramatic stuff, and many of those were mixed so that
you could not even really hear his voice very well.
(52:14):
But I stumbled upon a recitation of that speech given
by none other than the great actor sir Ian McKellen
for ten minutes. He recited word for word the Hope Speech.
This was posted word four word on the Elmeida Theater
YouTube page. And I'm going to finish the show with this.
(52:37):
Today Harvey Milk had been talking about how non heterosexuals
needed representation in our halls of power at the highest
levels of visibility, not just having advocates, but running themselves,
being out there themselves, engaging with influence for the purpose
of positive change themselves. And again it is is what
(53:01):
the Trump administration and the bigots out there are trying
to erase. What they're trying to knock out, what they're
trying to defeat, the humanization and celebration of gay people
at all levels of society, including and our government and
our armed forces. Let me leave you with this, Sir
Ian McKellen performing the Hope Speech given fifty years ago
(53:27):
in San Francisco by Harvey Milk.
Speaker 13 (53:30):
About six months ago, Anisa Bryant, in her speaking to
God said that the droughts in California was because of
the gay people. On November the ninth, the day after
I got elected, it started to rain. On the day
I got sworn in. We walked to city Hall and
(53:50):
it was kind of nice, and as soon as I
said the word I do, it started to rain again.
It's been raining since then, and the people of San
Francisco figure the only way to stop it is to
do a recall petition.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
So much for that.
Speaker 13 (54:10):
Why are we here, why are gay people here? And
what's happening? Well, let's look at nineteen seventy seven. In
nineteen seventy seven, gay people had their rights taken away
from them in Miami. But you must remember that in
the week before Miami and the week after that, the
(54:34):
word of a sexual okay appeared in every single newspaper
in this nation, in articles both pro and con in
every radio station, every TV station, at every household. For
the first time in the history of the world, everybody
was talking about it, good or bad. Unless you have dialogue,
(54:59):
Unless you open the walls of dialogue, you can never
reach to change people's opinion. Once you have dialogue starting,
you know you can break down prejudice. In nineteen seventy
seven we saw a dialogue start. In nineteen seventy seven,
we saw a gay person elected in San Francisco. What
(55:20):
that is is a record of what happened last year.
What we must do is make sure that nineteen seventy
eight continues the movement. I know we're pressed for time,
so I'm going to cover just one more little point.
That is to understand why it is important that gave
people run for office and that gay people get elected.
(55:43):
I know there are many people in this room who
are running for Central Committee who again, I encourage you,
and there's a major reason why. If my non gay
friends and supporters in this room understand it, they'll probably
understand why I've run so often before I found made it.
You see, there is a major difference and it remains
(56:04):
a vital difference between a friend and a gay person,
a friend in office and a gay person in office.
Gay people have been slandered nationwide. We've been tired, and
we've been brushed with the picture of pornography. In Dade County,
we were accused of child molestation. It's not enough anymore
(56:31):
just to have friends represent us, no matter how good
that friend may be. The black community made up its
mind to that a long time ago that the myths
against blacks can only be dispelled by electing black leaders.
So the black community could be judged by the leaders
and not by the myths or black criminals. The Spanish
community must not be judged by Latin criminals or myths.
(56:55):
The Asian community must not be judged by Asian criminals
or myths. The Italian community must not be judged by
the mafia myths.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
And the time has come and.
Speaker 13 (57:06):
The gay community must not be judged by our criminals
and myths. Like every other group, we must be judged
by our leaders and by those who are themselves gay,
those who are visible. For invisible, we remain in limbo,
a myth, a person with no parents, no brothers, no sisters,
(57:30):
no friends who are straight, no important positions in employment,
a tenth of the nation supposedly composed of stereotypes and
would be seducers of children, and no offense meant to
the stereotypes. But today the black community is not judged
by its friends, but by its black legislators and leaders.
(57:51):
And we must give people the chance to judge us
by our leaders and legislators. A gay person and an
office can set a tone, can command respect not only
from the larger community, but from the young people in
our own community who need both examples and.
Speaker 4 (58:10):
Hope.
Speaker 13 (58:14):
The first gay people we elect must be strong. They
must not be content to sit in the back of
the bus. They must not be content to accept pabuable.
They must be above wheeling a dealing. They must be
for the good of all of us, independent and bought.
The anger and the frustrations that some of us feel
is because we are misunderstood, and friends can't feel the
(58:37):
anger and frustration. They can sense it in us, but
they can't feel it because a friend has never gone
through what is known as coming out. I will never
forget what it was like coming out and having nobody
to look up toward.
Speaker 2 (58:58):
I remember the lack of hope.
Speaker 13 (59:02):
And our friends can't fulfill it. I can't forget the
looks on faces of people who've lost hope, be they gay,
be the seniors, be they blacks looking for an almost
impossible job, be they latins trying to explain their problems
and aspirations in a tongue that's foreign to them. I
personally will never forget that people are more important than buildings.
(59:24):
I use the word I because I'm proud. I stand
here tonight in front of my gay sisters, brothers, and
friends because I'm proud of you. I think it's time
that we have many legislators who are gay and proud
of that fact and do not have to remain in
the closet. I think that a gay person upfront will
(59:47):
not walk away from a responsibility and be afraid of
being tossed out of office. After Date County, I walked
among the angry and the frustrated night after night, and
I looked at their faces. And in San Francisco, go
three days before Gay Pridday, a person was killed just
because he was gay.
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
And that night.
Speaker 13 (01:00:10):
I walked among the sad and the frustrated at city
Hall in San Francisco. And later that night, as they
lit candles on castro streets and stood in silence, reaching
out was some symbolic thing that would give them hope.
These were strong people his face, as I knew from
(01:00:31):
the shop, the streets, meetings and people who I never
saw before, but I knew they were strong. But even
there he died hope. And the young gay people who
are coming out, and here Anita Bryant on television and
a story, the only thing they have to look forward
(01:00:54):
to is hope. And you have to give them hope,
Hope for a better world, Hope for a better tomorrow,
Hope for a better place to come to if the
presses at home.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Are too great.
Speaker 13 (01:01:06):
Hope that all will be all right without hope, not
only gays, but the blacks, the seniors, the handicapped, the usses.
The usses will give up. And if you help elect
to the Central Committee and other offices more gay people,
that gives a green light to all who feel this enfranchise,
(01:01:29):
a green.
Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Light to move forward.
Speaker 13 (01:01:31):
It means hope to a nation that has given up,
because if a gay person makes it, the doors are.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Open to everyone.
Speaker 13 (01:01:42):
So if there is a message I have to give,
it is that I've found one overriding thing about my
personal election. It's the fact that if a gay person
can be elected, it's a green light.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
And you, and you and you, you have to give
people hope. That's the speech, and that's the show. Go
out there and empower somebody today, and also empower yourselves.
Let's spread some hope and do some good. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
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Speaker 2 (00:10):
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
The rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If
I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,
not because.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I put my hand on a book and made a.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Wish and working together for a more rational world.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
In this country, until the year nineteen ninety three, military
policy strictly forbade non heterosexuals from serving in the armed
forces nineteen ninety three, which is pretty much yesterday in
this country's history, and then in ninety three the don't ask,
(01:19):
don't tell policy was implemented. Now, this only restricted non
heterosexuals from serving if they were open about their sexuality
and sexual identity. So the vibe was hush, hush, keep
it under your hat. Sure, it's nobody's business, but if
(01:40):
you are in some way public, especially if you're public
about maybe I don't know a relationship or you're expressing
yourself and what we consider to be a provocative way,
then you can be investigated by military superiors. Don't Ask,
Don't Tell was repealed in twenty eleven, allowing homosexuals and
(02:03):
bisexuals to openly serve in the United States. In twenty thirteen,
in the Supreme Court decision United States versus Windsor, the
military was required to offer similar benefits to homosexual relationships
as they did to heterosexual ones, fully equal treatment legally
(02:25):
to their partners and families. From nineteen sixty to twenty sixteen,
there was a blanket ban on all transgender people from
enlisting and serving in the military that was struck on
the first of January twenty eighteen. Transgender individuals were allowed
to serve in their identified or assigned gender upon completing transition.
(02:51):
In twenty sixteen, the first openly gay head of any
service in the military was a guy named Eric Fanning.
He became the twenty second Secretary of the Army in
San Francisco. On the sixteenth of August twenty sixteen, the
USNS Harvey Milk was officially named a Navy ship, which
(03:14):
was christened at a ceremony in San Francisco. Harvey Milk,
the openly gay civil rights leader, had served as a
diving officer in the Navy from nineteen fifty one to
nineteen fifty five. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is having that
ship renamed. He says, we are not interested in naming
ships after activists, despite the fact that Harvey Milk was
(03:39):
a Navy lieutenant who served during the Korean War and
became the first to openly gay man elected to public
office in California before he was assassinated one year later.
This guy was awarded posthumously the Presidential Medal of Freedom
in two thousand and nine, and yet Pete Hegseth said, no,
(04:01):
I want you to strike Harvey Milk from that ship
and we will name it something else. Other ships targeted
in the same way, including the John Lewis class vessels,
which were named for Supreme Court Justice third Good Marshal
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Harriet Tubman. This is all
(04:21):
framed as an anti woke, anti DEI effort to restore
military greatness. This administration today has argued trans service members
have a false gender identity, which conflicts with the Armed
Forces standards of integrity. They are negatively impacting the military's lethality, readiness,
(04:45):
and cohesion. A June sixth deadline was sent for active
duty transgender service members to volunteer to leave and get
some benefits, and then trans people would be forced out
or quote involuntarily separated. Reserve members have until July the seventh.
(05:10):
Here's a short clip, and I'm going to play a
lot more from Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, IRAQ war veteran.
She was talking about Trump's removal of trans people from
the armed forces. This is from two months ago on
CBS Chicago.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Illinois Senator in a rock war veteran Tammy Duckworth reacts
this morning to President Trump's tweet that transgender people will
no longer be allowed to serve in the US military.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
When I was bleeding to death in my helicopter after
that RPG ripped through the cockpit of the aircraft and
an American came to save my life, it didn't matter
to me if they were gay, if they were straight,
if they were transgendered. It only mattered that they wore
the uniform of the United States Military.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
As much as I hate to read anything supposedly written
by Donald Trump and posted on the Trump at Administration's
White House page. We know Trump didn't write anything. I'm
about to read, and I'm just going to do a
few short sections. But we know it wasn't him because
these are complete sentences, coherent thoughts, as tragic as they are.
(06:14):
Nothing's in all caps, and at no point does he
call anybody horse face. The purpose of the military is
a clear mission to protect the American people and our
homeland as the world's most lethal and effective fighting force.
Success in this existential mission requires a singular focus on
(06:35):
developing the requisite warrior ethos, and the pursuit of military
excellence cannot be diluted to accommodate political agendas or other
ideologies harmful to unit cohesion. Recently, however, the armed forces
have been afflicted with radical gender ideology to appease activists
(06:57):
unconcerned with the requirements of military serve like physical and
mental health, self lessness, and unit cohesion. Jesus Pete Budages
served as the nineteenth US Secretary of Transportation from twenty
twenty one to twenty twenty five. He also was a mayor.
(07:17):
He was the thirty second mayor of South Bend, Indiana.
He is also a former Navy officer. Budajees is one
of my favorite people in the world. I wish you
would run for president. And I know a lot of
people are having conversations about how electable he is. But
he's just so smart and he's so good at what
he does. And then he goes on Fox News and
(07:41):
sits down in the crosshairs as everybody tries to ambush him,
and he just wipes the floor with him. It's awesome. Anyway.
He was an intelligence officer in the US Navy Reserve,
became a lieutenant. He was mobilized and deployed to Afghanistan
for seven months and twenty four team Beat the bootash
(08:02):
Ash of course, is gay and has a husband. He
was on a talk show recently and he was talking
about how labels don't really matter all that much in
the arena of combat.
Speaker 6 (08:14):
I mean, again, I think back to the military, like
if I was getting in a vehicle to go outside
the wire, like the other people getting in the vehicle
with me definitely did not care if I was a
Republican or a Democrat, or like what country my dad
immigrated from, or if I'm going to home to a
girlfriend him. I'm really excited for the next hour. We're
(08:36):
going to talk about molt about Like all they wanted
to know obviously was that they could trust me to
do my job same thing, you know, vice versa, because
we're trusting each other every time we went outside the wire.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
To be clear, I was not into like a combat
or maneuver.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You know.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
My job was just to like drive them safely to
where they needed to go. But that that could be scared.
It does have risk, and not everybody should be in
the military, but like everybody should be in environments where
you know people as people first.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Now much has been said about the warrior ethos. Pete
hag Seth, Defense secretary and former Fox News Weekend Houst
talks a lot about the warrior ethos. I went to
the US Army website just to find out what that is,
and there's a page about the values of the US
(09:29):
Army warrior ethos. I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat, I will never quit, I
will never leave a fallen comrade. There's a soldier's creed.
Let's see what it says. I'm an American soldier, I'm
a warrior and a member of a team. I serve
the people of the United States. I live the Army values.
(09:51):
I will always place the mission first. I will never
accept defeat. I will never quit. I will never leave
a fallen comrade. I am disciplined, physically and mentally, tough,
trained and proficient, and my warrior tasks and drills. I
always maintain my arms, my equipment, and myself. I'm an expert,
and I'm a professional. I stand ready to deploy, engage,
(10:15):
and destroy the enemies of the United States of America
in close combat. I'm a guardian of freedom and the
American way of life. There are other creeds. I see
an NCO creed, a ranger creed, the Army song, the
oath of enlistment. I'm going to spare you all those,
but you get it. I will be loyal, I will
train hard. I will never leave a man or a
(10:37):
woman behind. So why in the world wouldn't LGBT people
be able to serve without being discriminated against? And don't
kid yourself. All non headeroes are in the crosshairs. They're
starting with trans people, but it's not about just trans people.
This is about people who are non HEATERO and the
(10:57):
eventual charge to remove them, probably as somebody waves that
American flag and screams the name of God again on
the warrior athos. This is US Representative Sarah Jacobs of
the fifty first Congressional District of California. She was just
(11:18):
recently at a House Armed Services Committee hearing and she
was speaking to defend Secretary Pete Hegseth.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Check this out, Secuary heg Seth.
Speaker 7 (11:27):
As you probably know, today is National Women's Veterans Day,
and in your confirmation hearing and in subsequent conversations, you've said,
and I'm quoting you, now, women in our military have
and continue to make amazing contributions across all aspects of
our battlefield, and that women were some of the best
soldiers you served with. Do you still stand by those statements? Yes, great,
(11:50):
thank you. As you probably know, I represent San Diego,
the biggest military community in the country, so I meet
with countless service members all the time. And with your
focus on emphasis on merit and standards, I wanted to
tell you about three incredible women in our military. So
the first woman is a major responsible for advanced collective
(12:12):
war fighting training. Her officer evaluation report rates her as
most qualified, and some of the comments included are, and
I'm quoting now, she lives the Army values and demonstrates
the warrior ethos daily. She rates within the top five
percent of officers I've encountered in eighteen years of military service.
(12:32):
The second woman is an aviator with a record of
over fifty combat missions, including deployments to Iraq in Afghanistan.
Two quotes from her most recent fitness report in April
quoting again, people excel under her leadership and she has
my strongest possible recommendation for promotion. The third woman is
(12:53):
an instructor for an Army ROTC battalion. According to her
evaluation report, her overall performance was rated at far exceed standards,
and the comments include she is undoubtedly within the top
five percent of non commission officers I've worked with in
my twenty two years of service. Given their stellar qualifications
and accomplishments, and their record of surpassing standards, I assume
(13:17):
that you agree that the Pentagon and the Services should
do everything they can to retain women like these.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Correct.
Speaker 8 (13:24):
I would commend the major, the aviator, and the instructor
for their service.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Great.
Speaker 7 (13:29):
I'm glad you agree. Because I also believe we should
be recruiting and retaining the very best and brightest in
our country to serve in the military. And yet you
are actually kicking out these three highly qualified service members
solely because of their identity. These are trans women, and
you are using the very same arguments that have been
used against desegregating the military, or allowing women to serve,
(13:53):
or allowing.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Gay people to serve.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
And in all those cases those arguments were wrong. So
I think it's clear that this is actually not about
standards or and I'm quoting you again, an equal, unwavering,
gender neutral, merit based system, because if it were, you
would be keeping these women in. Instead, you are the
one injecting culture wars into the military, and it's at
(14:17):
the detriment of our military readiness and national security. Now,
General Kin, i'd like to turn to you.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Should be clear, these are these are men who think
they're women. These are women.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
I'm happy to educate you on, uh, these are men.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
What we've identified is that there's mental health issues. I'd
like to leave system.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I'd like to turn to General or detrimental to readiness.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
And that's the determination that we've made and that we
stand behind gender to.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
Forces, and so you don't don't You don't trust your
commanding officers to be able to evaluate the people under
them to decide if this, if that were true, wouldn't
that show up in their fit reps? And yet these
fit reps are from the last three months, and all
of their commanding officers say that they exceed standards.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Here are the words of Commander Emily Shilling, a US
naval aviator who was also an out transgender woman.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Look, I just want to keep serving.
Speaker 8 (15:07):
I'm at nineteen and a half years, I have sixty
combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm a certified test
pilot flown over twenty one airframes at seventeen hundred flight
hours in aircraft like the F eighteen that you saw
on top Gun two.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I just want to keep doing my job.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Of course, we've got Project twenty twenty five, which was
authored by people who have been declaring LGBT marriage non heterosexuality,
these unholy unions between the sodomites. These are markers for
America's moral collapse. Remember back when Trump said I don't
know anything about it, I don't really care, and then
(15:46):
you watch his administration how many people that are part
of the Trump White House are also critical parts of
Project twenty twenty five. Just a few days ago, the
Southern Baptist Convention just passed a resolution supporting a concerted
effort to repeal same sex marriage. As we approach the
(16:07):
ten year anniversary of that historic decision by the Supreme
Court which required states to issue marriage licenses to same
sex couples and to recognize same sex marriages. Oh no,
the Southern Baptist Convention says it is now going to
commit all of its powers, are much of its powers
(16:28):
to building a coalition of anti gay marriage proponents. And
here we go again. By the way, this was a
story that broke Actually I saw it on Hemmet Meta's
Friendly Atheist sub stack about a guy who works in
it for the Oklahoma state governments. Turns out he's also
(16:52):
a preacher. You know what kind of a church he
preaches for? Try the new independent fund Dementalist Baptists. Now
you've heard about, or maybe you've heard about hate preacher
Stephen Anderson. He's probably the most famous. These guys are
the ones who stand in front of a podium on
a small stage and they've got like a wheat Field
(17:13):
Mural behind them, and they've got maybe one hundred people
in their immediate local congregation. Most of their audience is
on social media. They broadcast this hate everywhere and they
go hard I mean they are hardline Old Testament. God
wants to rain sulfur and pain and death on LGBT people,
(17:35):
and we are so glad that is what they are.
Speaker 9 (17:39):
Like.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Okay, this is the preach sermons all the time about
and celebrate the potential execution of non heterosexual people. Oh lookie,
there's a guy who works it for the state of Oklahoma.
His name is Dylan oz I guess that's how you
say it, Awes. He preaches at a church called Anchor
(18:02):
Baptist Church part time. So I got a state job
over here, and now I'm going to go over to
Anchor Baptist Church and I'm going to preach my sermons
calling for executing gay people. In fact, the government should
execute gay people. Quote, they should be lined up against
the wall and shot in the back of the head.
That's what God teaches, That's what the Bible says. He
(18:24):
says homosexuals are pedophiles. He says sodomites are responsible for
school shootings. Gay people are full of disease. They are predators.
He uses the f slur for non heterosexuals. They should
get a bullet in their brain. This guy working for
(18:44):
the government in an it capacity, the state of Oklahoma
paying this man, and it took his fellow state workers
how long to find out or figure out or even
care that he was doing it. This is part of
a larger movement against anyone and everyone who is not white,
conservative Evangelical Protestant, probably male Christian nationalists. Of course, we
(19:10):
cannot ignore the racial aspect of discrimination in the armed forces,
especially knowing Donald Trump's administration working hard to restore the names,
the reputations, and the monuments to racist war generals, Confederate icons, etc.
Their statues removed from public squares. He wants them back.
(19:32):
He wants military bases renamed for these Confederate racists. Really,
and CBS this morning, they had a feature just a
few years ago on how we still see the echoes
the footprint of race based discrimination throughout the American military.
Speaker 10 (19:51):
In a twenty nineteen survey, more than half of people
of color serving in uniform said they had personally witnessed
white nationalism or racism in the military. According to the
Defense Department, around seventeen percent of US troops identify themselves
as black. We spoke with several former active duty service
members of different races and religions about their experiences.
Speaker 11 (20:13):
And as a black woman, I had to wonder, Okay,
is this happening because I have overis or is it
because I have melany.
Speaker 10 (20:19):
Ten year Army veteran Mary Tobin says racism in the
ranks often isn't camouflaged. But as a student leader at
West Point, Tobin had to inspect cadet's rooms.
Speaker 11 (20:30):
You come in with a white glove and of course
you check for dirt, and.
Speaker 10 (20:34):
She quickly found a red flag.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Two white men who were roommates.
Speaker 11 (20:38):
I walked in and there was a very large Confederate flag.
I saw the flag. I looked at them, They looked
at me, and I could tell they were trying to
get a reaction out of me. That happened two more times,
and finally I had a discussion with them and told
them about how that felt for me as a black
woman from the South, coming into the room every inspection
(20:59):
is seeing that flo It hurt me dearly.
Speaker 10 (21:02):
Now nearly two decades later, the Confederate flag is no
longer allowed at West Point, but Tobin says reminders of
that painful past remained.
Speaker 11 (21:11):
One example is the name of a barracks named after
General Lee.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I lived in that.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
In those barracks at West Point, there's Lee Barracks, There's
Lee Gate, There's Lee Rod, there's Roberty Lee Housing Area.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Enough.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Donald Trump very recently speaking at Fort Bragg, I find
it interesting that a five time draft dodger, commander bone
Spurs likes to play soldier. I just find that fascinating. Anyway,
he's speaking at Fort Bragg. He said, can you believe
they changed that name in the last administration for a
little bit? Fort Bragg is in that's the name, and
(21:48):
Fort Braggitt shall always remain. That's never going to be
happening again. Of course, Fort Bragg was named to honor
the Confederate General Brexton Bragg. It was renamed Fort La Liberty,
and now it has reverted. Trump has said the original
names will be restored to Fort Gordon in Georgia, Fort
(22:08):
ap Hill in Virginia, Fort Hood in Texas, Fort Lee
in Virginia, Fort Pickett in Virginia, Fort Polk in Louisiana
and Fort Rucker in Alabama. By the way, military dot
Com revealed that there was a pre screening for soldiers
(22:30):
as a requirement to attend Donald Trump's speech. Here's a
clip from WRL News.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Steve Bainen is a national security correspondent for Military dot Com.
Manon looked into who was chosen to sit behind the president.
Internal communication within the eighty second Airborn Division outlined specific directives.
Those include soldiers sitting in the bleachers are to be
fit and not look fat, and soldiers with political views
(22:59):
in opposite dition who don't want to be there need
to get swapped out well.
Speaker 12 (23:03):
But even when a step further, there was a Trump
merchandise shop, this whole like pop up shop, it's called
a campaign three sixty five that was selling T shirts
and shosh keys and all sorts of memorabilia.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
In a statement to WRIL, an eighteenth Airborne Corps spokesperson wrote,
the Army does not endorse political merchandise or the views
it represents. The vendor's presence is under review to determine
how it was permitted and to prevent similar occurrences in
the future.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Pretty unbrand for Donald Trump. To bring a freaking gift shop.
But the whole idea is that the military is non partisan,
non political. They represent all Americans. After the break standing by,
I've got somebody with an insider's perspective. Soon he'll be
outside the military because he's getting the boot. Doctor Ben
(23:58):
Hamilton is a doctor, science educator, and atheist activist. We're
going to talk to Ben next. I want a frontline,
firsthand perspective specific to the military. My first choice right
(24:20):
at the top of my list, Doctor Ben Hamilton, who
joins me here, Hey, Don, thanks for coming.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Hey, thanks for having me on Big Fan.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Tell everybody real fast kind of who you are and
what you do.
Speaker 9 (24:33):
Yeah. So, I am a Doctor of Osteopath of Medicine AKADO,
equivalent to an MD in the United States. I'm currently
on administrative leave with the military, have been with them
for two years in the army as a physician. But
I'm also on the Internet doing shows like Medical Myths,
The Transatlantic Collin Show, and Talk Heathen. Because I'm also
(24:55):
a transperson and an outspoken atheist.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Here on this platform, trans people have been a convenient
villain among many other villains for the culture. Certainly this
administration give me your perspective on current events. I know
it's a broad question, but what's the vibe. How are
you feeling?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
The vibe is definitely toxic.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
It's definitely an angle of us not being wanted, and
they know how to play the game to get their
objective across without actually following the steps. It's very much
let's try to get all of them out as quickly
as possible with as little legal intervention throughout the way.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Tell me about this ban. I will call it a ban.
They call it what a voluntary resignation of transgender people
from the military. Is that what they're calling it.
Speaker 9 (25:45):
Yeah, it's absolutely wild, they're calling it it. So there's
a voluntary separation and involuntary separation. Typically, if you volunteer
to separate, that's a big no no, you don't do that.
That's like you're giving up or commission, you're giving up
your contract. It's like it's a breach of contract normally
if you do that. But in this case, it's better
(26:08):
to voluntarily separate. Essentially, if you out yourself as a
transperson and you say, okay, I will leave, they will
give you two times separation pay. If you're greater than
six years of service, they will wipe your contract so
you don't owe any more time. They'll let you keep
all of your retention bonuses prior to February twenty twenty five,
(26:31):
and you will be guaranteed an honorable discharge. On the
flip side if you don't out yourself, if they go
through your medical records, which is what they're threatening to do,
is to go through people's medical records, have their doctors
out them as having a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and
in that case, you will be booted. They're saying that
(26:51):
you'll get your regular separation pay again, only if you're
six years or past that. Anyone before that does not
get anything, and presumably you're going to have to owe
back whatever money they gave you, and possibly like financial recoupment,
like in my case, they paid for medical school, which
is about three hundred thousand dollars that I would owe them,
(27:13):
so if I involuntarily separated, they would make me probably.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Pay that back. It's blackmail, absolutely, it absolutely is.
Speaker 9 (27:21):
And the weird thing about this too is they are
framing this legally as it's not a ban on trans people,
it's a ban on gender dysphoria. They're trying to say
it's a medical reason. However, they're not giving us a
medical discharge. They're not going about it the way they
would for any other medical condition. And if they want
(27:42):
to say that gender dysphoria is equivalent to depression, anxiety,
et cetera, there are ways already for people with severe
depression to either stay in or get out of the military.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
That's already set up in the system.
Speaker 9 (27:57):
But to make matters worse as well, it's not just
if you currently have gender dysphoria, it's if you have
ever had gender dysphoria or if you have ever attempted
to change your sex.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And that's how they are defining it gender dysphoria. How
would you define that for this audience.
Speaker 9 (28:16):
Yeah, gender dysphoria essentially best described as like an incoherence
between your sex and how you identify with your sense
of self and sis gender people can also have gender dysphoria.
So if you are a male and you get a
hair transplant, that is gender affirming care because the idea
(28:36):
of looking more masculine alleviates some distress related to perceived gender.
So people who get breast augmentations that's also usually to
alleviate gender dysphoria. So it's that discomfort we get when
people misidentify what our gender is.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I just at the beginning of the show was reading
from the official White House page and it it also
made some I won't even say implications. It just set
out right something about wanting to restore unit cohesion and
dedication and bravery encourage the messages that people who are trans.
(29:15):
And you and I both know that it's going to
then spill into all non heteros. But the idea is
that you can't be courageous, you can't have a cohesive unit,
a family bond, you might leave a man or woman behind.
That's the message, right.
Speaker 9 (29:32):
Yeah, which is hilarious because we have throughout my networking
within the trans military community, we have kernels who are
in theater that are getting pulled from their units. You
have people who have multiple combat deployments, you people with
multiple achievement awards. You're pulling people with high levels of skill,
(29:52):
You're pulling senior leaders, You're pulling people with decades upon
decades of experience that it takes a long time, lot
of money to produce people of that caliber. And you're
pulling them because you think that they are going to
cause disruption. However, when asked in the court cases like
how many people were causing these disruptions, they couldn't give
(30:14):
any data on it. And it would seem that if
people were causing a disruption that would be known, we
would know about it.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
You realize you and I both have the same challenge.
You can't really control who's in your comments section. I'm
not sure that you really want to unless you get
abuse of people in there. But this has become such
a hot button political football. One side over here saying
transphobe and the other side over here is screaming gender cult.
You've heard that one, right, This is an ideological thing.
(30:43):
You're just part of a cult. Maybe you are broken
in some way. How do you deal? How do you
respond or do you respond to those kinds of accusations?
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (30:51):
Yeah, most of the time I don't respond to them.
I'd stay clear of my comment section. But obviously I'm
on a call in show where people'll talk to us
about trans issues, and a lot of it is bridging
this gap of just humanizing people. I think a lot
of what this ideology war comes down to is us
(31:13):
versus them and human or not human. And for some reason,
if we can make trans people seem less human, then
they're way easier to fight against. And I think a
lot of people just don't understand that trans people are
just people.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Well, you and I could spend a whole lot of
time over here. Let's draw back. Let me draw back
to the military. How do your fellow soldiers treat you?
How have your fellow soldiers treated transgender people, non binary,
LGBT people, non heteros, How are they approached and what
is often considered to be kind of a hardline, chest
(31:50):
thumping masculinity culture.
Speaker 9 (31:52):
Yeah, in my experience, it's been overwhelmingly positive. I think
most commands want to keep unit cohesion and the best
way to do that is by respecting everybody.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
For the past several years, the.
Speaker 9 (32:05):
Army has had initiatives in place for equal opportunity, and
they have at least they previously had a mandatory training
that everybody had to go to about hey, don't discriminate
against other people. And of course you have a couple
here and there are people that will tough and puff
about it, but for the most part, commands are very respectful.
My command has always been like, they've been willing to
(32:29):
let me be a hee him and wear the clothes
that I wear, and they've been completely respectful. My unit
has not made a huge deal out of it at
all until now. But even after the band went in
place where they said, hey, you can't use the improper
pronouns for people, meaning you're supposed to call people by
their birth sex, my command never switched. They never started
(32:49):
misgendering me, and from my perspective, there was no issue
with me integrating into the unit like anybody else. I
was treated exactly the same way.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Be a bit of a cliche, but in my mind,
I'm thinking, you know, the bunks at boot camp and
the showers, may these conversations that are being had when
it comes to trans people, etc.
Speaker 9 (33:12):
Yeah, it's awkward because per the regulation, you have to
use facilities based on your gender marker in the system
which it was that you could change that and then
as soon as you change your gender marker you were
able to bunk with whoever you identified with. In my case,
my gender marker never changed because I had some reasons
(33:35):
for not fully changing that yet, largely related to like
fitness tests and like body composition, which gets really sticky.
But so I've been bunking with the women and using
the facilities of women. But a lot of time when
there was another option to use a gender neutral space,
my command would offer for me to use that space.
(33:57):
So there are certain accommodations that can be made. It's
not always guaranteed, but that is probably the hardest thing
is if your gender marker wasn't changed, that you still
had to abide by those rules.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
At the Weekend Reason conference that I recently attended in Canada,
doctor Aaron DeVore is an internationally recognized leader in transgender
studies and he's been studying and teaching about this stuff
since the early nineteen eighties. He brought up a point
from the stage I hadn't considered as much because I'm
you know, I've got an outside in perspective. But it
(34:32):
wasn't just about the discomforts of people who were in
the bunks and the showers when a transgender person comes in,
But it's also about the safety and well being of
the transgender person, right, I mean, how much do you
feel like am I going to get my ass kicked?
Are they going to Is there going to be physical harm?
Will there be other consequences when you enter something like that,
(34:53):
especially in a close quarters unit like that. Are these
conversations you've had in your own head.
Speaker 9 (34:59):
Yes, And from my side, it's a bit less risky
being in women's spaces. I've noticed that cisgender women are
way less likely to at least engage in violence.
Speaker 13 (35:11):
On that.
Speaker 9 (35:11):
I've had kind of some awkward times where people are like,
this is the women's storm, and I'm like, I have
to be here. But other than that, like once I
told them they were pretty cool. But I think a
lot of the danger comes from the men's barracks, especially
with regard to trans women. They're the highest risk for violence,
specifically because of cis gender men and their desire to
(35:33):
prove their masculinity with physical violence.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
So I would have a lot more.
Speaker 9 (35:38):
Of those fears, honestly if I was in the male
dorms than if I was in the female But I've
definitely had those thoughts, and especially like even outside the military,
going into men's bathrooms, I do have that thought quite frequently.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
You're worried that somebody who has very primitive ideas of
what manhood is is going to who then become somehow
threatened by somebody who is not quite like them or
who doesn't validate their idea. You know, Donald Trump is
that way very much. You know, He's always sort of
expressing outwardly this this notion of masculinity, the warrior culture.
(36:16):
And of course you and I are like five deferments,
you know, Commander bone Spurs. What's the military saying? This
is a broader question. What are people in the armed
forces saying about all this bullshit, whether it's the you know,
the Kim Jong un type parades and him walking around
playing soldier? Does anybody talk about this?
Speaker 9 (36:38):
The people that I've talked with are really not in
favor of all this going on. I guess the side
of the military that I've been on with, you know,
being medical and then also my current unit, if you will,
is the is a chemical unit, so kind of the
nerdy side. But I know from the more combat arm
side of things, they can be a bit more conservative,
(37:01):
and by a bit, I mean a lot more conservative.
I personally haven't heard anything specifically about their view on
the parades and everything, but there are some pretty hardcore Trumpers,
like in the force.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I've been fortunate not to run into them.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
A whole lot, So all transgender people are out period.
Speaker 9 (37:21):
Well, anyone that has come out of the closet at all.
There's technically this is something interesting. There technically is a waiver,
but it's not a real waiver. It's just in there
for legal reasons because it says that you can stay
in if you've never had a diagnosis of gender dysphoria
and if you've never had medical intervention on the grounds
(37:42):
of being trans. So basically, if you're in the closet,
you're fine. So basically, the waivers only there to protect
people who are not actually trans.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So if someone has had gender reassignment surgery and is
totally under everybody's radar, they could skate through. Do you
think they could be under that radar and finish out
whatever term in the military they wanted to finish.
Speaker 9 (38:06):
They possibly could if the administration does not go through
their medical records, which of course is a breach of HIPPA.
They should not be allowed to do this. Doctors should
not be outing anybody to anybody, like there's that confidentiality
that you're supposed to have, and really the only job
of military medicine should be hey, are you able to
(38:27):
do your job or not, but if they're going to
use the medical system against people, that could be one
way that they would be outed. It would take a
while probably for them to be dug up like that,
but I think this administration may be barbaric enough to
go through with that.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
And if they are seen to have been dishonest, bad agents, etc.
Then they get kicked out and they get no benefits.
They get you know, there's nothing, and they say you
owe all the debt of the moneies that we paid
for and then they're really hosed.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (38:58):
Absolutely, So it's it's a big risk for somebody taking
that route.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
What's your intuition. I know it's a subjective opinion, but
you've got an insider's view. Are all non headeros next?
Speaker 3 (39:13):
I think so.
Speaker 9 (39:14):
And I think it's kind of a toss up whether
it's going to be gay people next or if it's
going to be women next. But one of the two
groups is definitely going to be next on the chopping block.
We're already seeing steps to try to remove women from
combat arms specialties, so trying to keep women in an
admin role, and I could see that going to trying
(39:34):
to keep women out of the military in general.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
So one of the common things that we're hearing out
there is that the male primate is largely going to
be bigger in frame, more muscle mass, more physical strength. Therefore,
it should be males in the arena of combat. It
should be men who are the warriors out on the
front lines for defending the country and defeating our enemies,
(40:01):
and women are simply too weak.
Speaker 9 (40:03):
How would you respond to that, Yeah, I would say
that you can't base decisions about an individual on averages.
This is an ecological fallacy, and I like to use
this for the trans people in sports argument as well.
You have an average that people will cite. However, people
span that entire range of what is humanly possible, and
(40:23):
you have to make these decisions based on the individual.
So if you have super super able bodied women that
are completing ranger school, that are completing jump school, that
are doing all these things that are required to do
some high speed jobs in the military, why are you
going to say that they shouldn't be allowed to do it.
They are meeting the same standards as men. So why
are you penalizing those people who do meet the qualifications
(40:46):
and saying that, well, but the average is lower than you.
So you must be within that average.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
You pass the test, you met the requirement. That seem's
pretty basic to me. Ben, what happens to you next
they're kicking you out? You're a physician, What do you
go into private practice?
Speaker 7 (41:05):
What?
Speaker 9 (41:06):
So? I'm still in the midst of my training, so
I completed my internear, but I still have to get
board certified. I'm technically licensed to practice independently. However, most
insurances don't like to cover physicians that are not board certified.
So my plan is essentially to figure out these next
(41:28):
basically as next year, reapply to residency on the civilian side,
and then go live the rest of my life and
be happy as a civilian physician.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
You think we're going to see a reversal, Let's say,
if we're not burning cinders by the midterms and then
finally it just seems like twenty twenty eight just seems
like next century to me. But do you have any
intuition that maybe there will be a course correction down
the way? Maybe you know, in my lifetime. I don't know.
(41:57):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (41:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 10 (41:59):
I know.
Speaker 9 (42:00):
So as far as this administration, there are Dems trying
to pass a bill preventing discrimination within the military against
gender identity. I don't think that's going to pass. I'm
not hopeful that's going to pass. If we have a
great midterm election, maybe they'll bring that again and maybe
we'll see that overturned.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
I still think it's unlikely.
Speaker 9 (42:21):
I think it's unlikely that the Supreme Court is going
to intervene in any positive way. So I think more
than likely what will happen is we will get kicked out.
The next administration will come in, they may try to
reverse the executive order, and most of the trans.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
People will say, fuck off. I don't want to come back.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
It's funny. You can burn a house down in fifteen minutes,
but it takes like, you know, six months to rebuild it,
and I feel like the damage being done is just
so intense. The rebuilding is going to be such a
long game. Doctor Ben Hamilton of the Medical Myths Channel,
also co host of Talk Heath and the Transatlantic Collins Show.
(43:02):
For your insigner's perspective, you are much appreciated. I'm sorry
that what is happening is happening, but you certainly have
supporters and family here, and this is information that helps
us at least to be better informed as we move forward.
So thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
On the subject of women in the military. Now I
mentioned Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, elected back in twenty sixteen.
She's an Iraq War veteran, Purple Heart recipient and former
Assistant Secretary of the United States Department of Veteran Affairs.
She was among the first of a handful of Army
(43:41):
women to fly combat missions during Operation Iraqi Freedom. She
served in the Reserve Forces for twenty three years before
retiring as a lieutenant colonel in twenty fourteen. Again, she
is in the Senate. And for anybody who thinks she
was a dei hire even all those decades ago, she
was the co pilot of a UH sixty Blackhawk helicopter
(44:04):
when she was struck by an RPG. The aircraft went down.
She lost her right leg near the hip and her
left leg below the knee. She was the first American
female double amputee from the Iraq War that injury sustained
back in two thousand and four. Today she is a
senator and a few years ago and if you won
(44:25):
an example of the culture shift from inclusivity a country
in a military that looks like all of us to exclusivity,
that sort of has that caricature of what the warrior is.
This is Senator Duckworth from five years ago. She was
on stage speaking to an audience at the Elliott School
(44:47):
of International Affairs.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
When I was in flight school, I was only female
in my particular class, and the instructors would come up
to me all the times. Do you have any other
women that you know that would apply to military flights?
We to become helicopter pilots because women make better natural
pilots than men. On Day one has to do with
multitasking ability. You get a guy and you tell them
to take that bridge or take that outlet.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Machine gun's nest. He's like laser focus. He's going to
do that.
Speaker 5 (45:13):
But if you need someone who can fly the aircraft
that takes both hands posed feet, listen to three different
radio shadows, read the map, talk to your crew in
the back, so you talk through the aircraft over there
and make sure you don't get lost.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
You want a woman.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
And they're disagreement, Yeah, so they stay found. So they're
always trying to get more women to ply, but the
women never apply. No, one was preventing the women from applying.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
They just never apply because they never thought of themselves
as being pilots.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
And I think that's what happens.
Speaker 5 (45:41):
A lot among women and minority candid It's just that
you see certain images of what this person is and
you don't see your face in that position, of someone
who looks like you in that position. So then you
don't go after it because you don't think of that
as a possibility. And we have to break those barriers,
but then we have to be able to image that.
(46:02):
And so that's what I say to folks is you know,
just try it and if you fail, so what, get
back up and try it again. Try to be that ambassador.
There's no reason that an ambassador needs to be a
white man. An ambassador can be anyone. And in fact,
some of the best ambassadors we have with the ones
who have the cultural backgrounds for the countries that they're
going to represent.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
But under the current regime, would women feel comfortable applying
to the armed forces? The Trump administration right now has
not a single woman in a four star general or
admiral leadership position, not one. We had the departure aka
(46:45):
firing of Admiral Linda Fagan. She was the first woman
to lead the Coast Guard. She was appointed by Biden
back in twenty twenty two. On Trump's first day in office,
she was fired. Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois said that
Fagan was more qualified to serve in her role than
Pete Hegseth is to be Defense Secretary. She said Trump
(47:09):
would rather appear anti woke than keep our military strong.
Admiral Fagan had had almost a forty year career. She
had served on all seven continents in high ranking roles
like Pacific Area Commander, District and Sector Commander, and Marine Inspector.
And while certainly she was a human being and her
(47:31):
tenures were far from perfect, this idea that she was
ill qualified for the position, and I think throwing DEEI
out there really exposed their hand. Well, no wonder Donald
Trump wanted her gone. Also this year, Pete Hegseth dismissing
Lieutenant General Jennifer Short, the senior military assistant to the
(47:54):
Secretary of Defense. She was a C one thirty navigator
and an eight ten pilot, served for less than a
year in her job, and she was handed her hat.
Also Talita Crossland, former head of the military's Defense Health Agency,
was forced to retire after a thirty two year career.
(48:15):
These are just a few examples. By the way, women
did not officially serve in the Armed forces until President
Harry Truman signed the Women's Armed Service Integration Act in
June of nineteen forty eight, which allowed women to have
permanent status in the Armed Forces. And here we are
(48:35):
seventy seven years later and going backwards. It seems I'm
going to play some kind of special for you to
finish out the last segment of the broadcast. I'd mentioned
civil rights activist and veteran the late Harvey Milk. Well,
he gave a historic speech and the words of that
(48:57):
speech were recreated in an epic way. I can't think
of a better way to climax the broadcast, so we
will play that for you next. Appreciate you so much.
Thank you for your support Patreon, becoming a YouTube member,
(49:20):
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(49:40):
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So do a little retail therapy, do a little shopping,
and thanks so much for the support. Today we are
talking about discrimination in the United States military. Now on
(50:05):
a related note, in Hungary, I know we're talking about
the States, but this matters. Donald Trump loves Victor Orbon,
the Prime Minister of Hungary, which has been a human
rights night. Mayre Orbon and his government have been waging
war on LGBT people across the board. They have banned pride,
(50:30):
even though people go out and hold pride events anyway,
they've banned. They pass this draconian law that said it
is illegal to hold pride and similar events. So the
right to assembly, free assembly, that's gone for a massive
demographic Hungary has also adopted a repressive law banning the
(50:50):
quote portrayal and promotion of LGBT content to children, which
means pretty much everywhere right where do you go where
there's there aren't kids. And these gay people and trans
people are a threat to our children. Now familiar does
that sound? We got Project twenty twenty five types, the
(51:10):
Christian nationalist types, the authoritarians, all of these people they
do what they do under the guys, Well, it's just
about protecting the most vulnerable among us. We must be
the gatekeepers and keep all the achy different, sodomite, wicked
people out right. That's essentially how they justify their hatred
(51:32):
and the laws that are built on that hatred. And
I just find it interesting because Donald Trump wants to
be the Victor Orbond of the United States of America.
How terrifying is that. I mentioned Harvey Milk earlier in
the broadcast. Well, he gave a famous speech way back
(51:53):
on Gay Freedom Day, the twenty fifth of June nineteen
seventy eight, and he gave this speech on the steps
of San frand Cisco City Hall. I was looking for
the speech and his words, and I couldn't find anything
that wasn't over produced with a bunch of music and
dramatic stuff, and many of those were mixed so that
you could not even really hear his voice very well.
(52:14):
But I stumbled upon a recitation of that speech given
by none other than the great actor sir Ian McKellen
for ten minutes. He recited word for word the Hope Speech.
This was posted word four word on the Elmeida Theater
YouTube page. And I'm going to finish the show with this.
(52:37):
Today Harvey Milk had been talking about how non heterosexuals
needed representation in our halls of power at the highest
levels of visibility, not just having advocates, but running themselves,
being out there themselves, engaging with influence for the purpose
of positive change themselves. And again it is is what
(53:01):
the Trump administration and the bigots out there are trying
to erase. What they're trying to knock out, what they're
trying to defeat, the humanization and celebration of gay people
at all levels of society, including and our government and
our armed forces. Let me leave you with this, Sir
Ian McKellen performing the Hope Speech given fifty years ago
(53:27):
in San Francisco by Harvey Milk.
Speaker 13 (53:30):
About six months ago, Anisa Bryant, in her speaking to
God said that the droughts in California was because of
the gay people. On November the ninth, the day after
I got elected, it started to rain. On the day
I got sworn in. We walked to city Hall and
(53:50):
it was kind of nice, and as soon as I
said the word I do, it started to rain again.
It's been raining since then, and the people of San
Francisco figure the only way to stop it is to
do a recall petition.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
So much for that.
Speaker 13 (54:10):
Why are we here, why are gay people here? And
what's happening? Well, let's look at nineteen seventy seven. In
nineteen seventy seven, gay people had their rights taken away
from them in Miami. But you must remember that in
the week before Miami and the week after that, the
(54:34):
word of a sexual okay appeared in every single newspaper
in this nation, in articles both pro and con in
every radio station, every TV station, at every household. For
the first time in the history of the world, everybody
was talking about it, good or bad. Unless you have dialogue,
(54:59):
Unless you open the walls of dialogue, you can never
reach to change people's opinion. Once you have dialogue starting,
you know you can break down prejudice. In nineteen seventy
seven we saw a dialogue start. In nineteen seventy seven,
we saw a gay person elected in San Francisco. What
(55:20):
that is is a record of what happened last year.
What we must do is make sure that nineteen seventy
eight continues the movement. I know we're pressed for time,
so I'm going to cover just one more little point.
That is to understand why it is important that gave
people run for office and that gay people get elected.
(55:43):
I know there are many people in this room who
are running for Central Committee who again, I encourage you,
and there's a major reason why. If my non gay
friends and supporters in this room understand it, they'll probably
understand why I've run so often before I found made it.
You see, there is a major difference and it remains
(56:04):
a vital difference between a friend and a gay person,
a friend in office and a gay person in office.
Gay people have been slandered nationwide. We've been tired, and
we've been brushed with the picture of pornography. In Dade County,
we were accused of child molestation. It's not enough anymore
(56:31):
just to have friends represent us, no matter how good
that friend may be. The black community made up its
mind to that a long time ago that the myths
against blacks can only be dispelled by electing black leaders.
So the black community could be judged by the leaders
and not by the myths or black criminals. The Spanish
community must not be judged by Latin criminals or myths.
(56:55):
The Asian community must not be judged by Asian criminals
or myths. The Italian community must not be judged by
the mafia myths.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
And the time has come and.
Speaker 13 (57:06):
The gay community must not be judged by our criminals
and myths. Like every other group, we must be judged
by our leaders and by those who are themselves gay,
those who are visible. For invisible, we remain in limbo,
a myth, a person with no parents, no brothers, no sisters,
(57:30):
no friends who are straight, no important positions in employment,
a tenth of the nation supposedly composed of stereotypes and
would be seducers of children, and no offense meant to
the stereotypes. But today the black community is not judged
by its friends, but by its black legislators and leaders.
(57:51):
And we must give people the chance to judge us
by our leaders and legislators. A gay person and an
office can set a tone, can command respect not only
from the larger community, but from the young people in
our own community who need both examples and.
Speaker 4 (58:10):
Hope.
Speaker 13 (58:14):
The first gay people we elect must be strong. They
must not be content to sit in the back of
the bus. They must not be content to accept pabuable.
They must be above wheeling a dealing. They must be
for the good of all of us, independent and bought.
The anger and the frustrations that some of us feel
is because we are misunderstood, and friends can't feel the
(58:37):
anger and frustration. They can sense it in us, but
they can't feel it because a friend has never gone
through what is known as coming out. I will never
forget what it was like coming out and having nobody
to look up toward.
Speaker 2 (58:58):
I remember the lack of hope.
Speaker 13 (59:02):
And our friends can't fulfill it. I can't forget the
looks on faces of people who've lost hope, be they gay,
be the seniors, be they blacks looking for an almost
impossible job, be they latins trying to explain their problems
and aspirations in a tongue that's foreign to them. I
personally will never forget that people are more important than buildings.
(59:24):
I use the word I because I'm proud. I stand
here tonight in front of my gay sisters, brothers, and
friends because I'm proud of you. I think it's time
that we have many legislators who are gay and proud
of that fact and do not have to remain in
the closet. I think that a gay person upfront will
(59:47):
not walk away from a responsibility and be afraid of
being tossed out of office. After Date County, I walked
among the angry and the frustrated night after night, and
I looked at their faces. And in San Francisco, go
three days before Gay Pridday, a person was killed just
because he was gay.
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
And that night.
Speaker 13 (01:00:10):
I walked among the sad and the frustrated at city
Hall in San Francisco. And later that night, as they
lit candles on castro streets and stood in silence, reaching
out was some symbolic thing that would give them hope.
These were strong people his face, as I knew from
(01:00:31):
the shop, the streets, meetings and people who I never
saw before, but I knew they were strong. But even
there he died hope. And the young gay people who
are coming out, and here Anita Bryant on television and
a story, the only thing they have to look forward
(01:00:54):
to is hope. And you have to give them hope,
Hope for a better world, Hope for a better tomorrow,
Hope for a better place to come to if the
presses at home.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Are too great.
Speaker 13 (01:01:06):
Hope that all will be all right without hope, not
only gays, but the blacks, the seniors, the handicapped, the usses.
The usses will give up. And if you help elect
to the Central Committee and other offices more gay people,
that gives a green light to all who feel this enfranchise,
(01:01:29):
a green.
Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Light to move forward.
Speaker 13 (01:01:31):
It means hope to a nation that has given up,
because if a gay person makes it, the doors are.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Open to everyone.
Speaker 13 (01:01:42):
So if there is a message I have to give,
it is that I've found one overriding thing about my
personal election. It's the fact that if a gay person
can be elected, it's a green light.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
And you, and you and you, you have to give
people hope. That's the speech, and that's the show. Go
out there and empower somebody today, and also empower yourselves.
Let's spread some hope and do some good. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
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