Will the Epstein Files Break MAGA? (plus your calls)

We start with the Epstein files and take plenty of calls on various subjects.

The Adam Miller rant: https://bit.ly/44ZHGO6

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/thethinkingatheist--3270347/support.

Episode Transcript

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Adds up. Big convention this weekend in Nashville. It is Nanocon,
the Nashville Nuns Conference, and there are still tickets. Also
Baja Cohn in Sarnia, Ontario. That's the weekend of August
eighth through the tenth. And on the calendar the Freedom
From Religion Foundation's twenty twenty five national Convention that's going

(01:18):
to be October seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth. All the details
at the Thinkingatheist dot com slash events Today, I want
to hear your perspective on the Epstein files. A lot
of folks get onto me because we're not talking quite

(01:39):
as much directly about religion these days, but it's okay
to talk about social issues, isn't it. And everybody else
is talking about the Epstein files. I'm curious about them now.
Before I go any further, there was this post on
Facebook by a guy named Adam Millery talking first about

(02:01):
Julayne Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's enabler and co predator, and then
he sort of spun on from there. I don't know
if he originated the piece, but it was fascinating to
read and it may reflect what a lot of us
were thinking. And so let me just read it real fast,
he said. Anyway, So Robert Maxwell, Julaane Maxwell's dad is

(02:23):
buried at the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem with the
highest honors. Big massad guy makes sense he'd get the
hook up. Julaane, his daughter, ends up big homies with
Jeffrey Ebstein, and together they run the island we keep
hearing about in the news, a place that definitely did
not have any secret cameras. Then the whole thing gets busted.

(02:48):
Jeffrey dies alone in a prison cell under the Titust supervision.
Right at the same time the cameras shut off very
normal stuff. Julaane is in a minimum security prison in
Florida and very much alive, despite the near unanimous hatred
for child predators amongst inmate populations. Also very normal stuff.

(03:11):
Suddenly there's a list, the big reveal. They've got it
in a big binder, and stooges like Jack Pisovik are
posing with it now. By the way, Jack pisobic is
an alt right whack job conspiracy theorist dude. The post continues,
It says, We're going to find out which of the
global elite were involved in an international child sex trafficking ring,

(03:35):
not a made up one like pizzagate, but a real
one with evidence and convictions behind it. Meanwhile, the United
States is giving the State of Israel three hundred ten
billion dollars in aid for entirely unrelated reasons across decades
of administrations for its military occupation of the lands it

(03:56):
is colonizing and has essentially written net and Yahoo, who
currently holds a fifty eight percent disapproval rating amongst voting
age Israeli people, a blank moral check to genocide the
Palestinian people the dust while being perpetually filmed in four
K doing so. Nobody can seem to wrap their heads

(04:17):
around why we very nearly go to global nuclear war
about it. Elon Musk gets on Twitter and says, Donnie
is on the list, and now suddenly there's no list
and we're being told to just shut up and get
over it. Some twenty seven year old who is like

(04:38):
the fortieth speaker for this clown car administration. Personally, I
miss the mooch, is scolding us from the TV screen
to forget about it while they build full blown fucking
concentration camps right next to Disney World, cut the healthcare
for millions of people, bankroll at genocide, and fund the

(04:58):
world's largest secret pl lease using the badges of a
post nine to eleven counter terrorism agency and the juiced
up surveillance policy of the Patriot Act. When I say
that I find things insufferable, what I mean is it's
pretty fucking obvious at this point that the list does exist,

(05:19):
and there's hours and hours and hours of footage of
politicians engaged in some of the most heinous behavior ever
recorded to go with it, and you and I have
to sit in our overpriced apartments, donate to our friends
go fundmes, watch our other friends die and make shitty
jokes while the prices on shit go up at the

(05:41):
grocery store every day, so a bunch of fucked up
boomer politicians can make it peacefully to the grave before
it comes out they were on that island. We just
have to live with that, go to work and do
laundry and wash dishes with that knowledge in the air.
To watch a geriatric failed game show host president who

(06:04):
can't read four syllable words off a teleprompter and shits
himself on national television, put on lay mass military parades
and have a UFC fight on the White House front
lawn while my fucking teeth wrought out of my head.
I have to watch desperation and gambling addiction, do the
dragon ball Z Fusion dance in the hearts of my

(06:26):
friends because everyone is fucking poor now, while stormtroopers and
unmarked cars kidnapped my neighbors. So Laura Lumer can look
down at her phone with the lifeless eyes sunk into
what's left of her face and post AI memes of
alligators in ice hats because they've actually got an extra

(06:47):
four hundred and fifty million dollars a year to run
TIMU a ctfxx Lushwitz with food trucks. I don't know
how to read that, Please forgive me. It's pouring fucking
rain for a week straight, to the point where literally
one hundred people drown in their own homes in the
city I live in, and a girls' summer camp just

(07:07):
floats away with the kids still in it, and my
friends reach out to me asking if I'm okay, like
there's anything they could really do about it if I wasn't. Meanwhile,
our senator is on fucking vacation in Greece. Because it
doesn't actually matter what rotten, spineless eels these people are.
The state propaganda machine will just keep rolling out the

(07:29):
party lines and the fried mannaise suckers who voted for
them will continue to cheer like the good little service
animals they are, and election after election, education and healthcare
will just get shittier and shittier until the power grid
finally fails for good and we all die with it.

(07:50):
Every fucking part of this Maga Nazi party is absolutely
intolerable on every possible level, and it permeates every aspect
of our life every single day. And people still have
the balls to look you square in the face and
say clown shit about how they don't want to talk
about politics or that art shouldn't be political. I don't

(08:13):
want to fucking hear those words ever. Again, it's one
hundred and fifteen degrees outside for half the year, so
my toaster can have AI powered Bluetooth connectivity, and so
kids can cheat on their essays at school. Everything is
political now, including the fucking weather. I have to watch

(08:33):
politicians get arrested on TV by dudes in ski masks
and it's not even cool. But there is no Ebstein list.
I think he's upset anyway. I'll link that in the
description box. If you've got Facebook, you can go browse

(08:56):
it for yourself. The theories are that there are recordings,
in fact that they're I'm setting you up. There are
Epstein documents, there are many discs, There are CD ROMs,
there are DVDs, there are hard drives, There's a ton

(09:16):
of material. Don't tell me that there is not one
person on those drives, on those discs. Who isn't some
famous rich fat cat who raped young girls, underage girls.
Don't tell me that the evidence is not there. I
don't think it's us freaking out and being overreactive and

(09:38):
just trying to take down the mag is. I mean,
where's the urgency when it comes to child rape and
all of these law and order types, you know, they're like, well,
they're never were any files. But it has been interesting
to see that this may be the thing that causes
MAGA to splinter and self destruct. You and I thought

(10:01):
the straw that broke the camel's back, what happened ten
years ago. We thought the Access Hollywood tape would be enough.
Oh that came out, Well, he's totally disqualified. We thought
there would be one after the other, and we told ourselves,
maybe this will be the thing that causes people to
snap out of the kilma, and it just never happened.

(10:22):
But for some reason, the Epstein tapes, this has become
the thing. And so now even Mike Johnson, Mike Johnson,
Speaker of the House, squirming in the seat, well, we
need to kind of release if they're legitimate Padda, and

(10:42):
he got Charlie Kirk and he's saying this sucks, we
need to release them. And then he says, no, I'm
done talking about it. And then he says, well, no,
that's not what I said, and it's just insane. And
the whole time, I'm thinking any and every moral creature
should say where is the information and who is on

(11:02):
the drives and the tapes. It's a public safety issue.
These are predators, they are child rapists. And the fact
that everybody is not screaming and especially Donald Trump, is
not screaming for justice that the protections of these underage girls.

(11:26):
And you and I understand it given his history of
how he feels about underage girls. And we're not just
talking about his daughter, who he's hot for, by the way,
on record in his interviews when she was a young kid,
talking about how she might develop, will she have good boobs?
Who talks about that like that about their daughter?

Speaker 4 (11:49):
Right?

Speaker 2 (11:49):
He said, the one thing they have most in common
is sex. If she wasn't his daughter, he might be
dating her. This is how his mind works. He's creeping
around the teen USA dressing rooms because he can. You know,
it's just he's on the escalator and he's on camera.
He's going up the escalator. There's a ten year old

(12:11):
girl and he's talking to her and he says something
to her, and then he says, you know, in another
ten years, I might be dating her who thinks like that.
I am convinced that someone who would like to be
a predator of underage girls. I think he's in there somewhere,
and I think he's desperate. Now. There will be some
who will never go there, who will say it's fabricated,

(12:33):
it's AI, it's doctor. My Trump would never do that,
But I think there may be a segment of the
population that voted for Trump that will accept it if
it comes to the public light. Will it are the
finals being deleted or thrown outs? Are there copies if

(12:55):
they have been thrown out? So many questions. Fortunately, we
have reliable institutions like the satirical site The Onion. Trump
urges supporters to move on from societal disdain for pedophilia. Yes,

(13:18):
its satires so hard in this day and age. Facing
mounting backlash from his magabase over his perceived ties to
the Jeffrey Epstein case, President Donald Trump reportedly encouraged his
supporters Monday to simply move on from society's widespread disdain

(13:38):
or pedophilia. Quote, It's time to just accept that some
people like having sex with kids and focus on the
fantastic things we're doing to win back the respect of
the world, said Trump, who expressed frustration that instead of
celebrating the passage of his domestic spending bill or his
historic deportation numbers, any of his supporters were getting distracted

(14:02):
by quote something that people have done since ancient Greece?
Are people really still talking about the sexual abuse of children?
Let it go. Our administration is making America great again.
That's the story, not whether I or anyone else diddled
an underage girl. The case is closed. Sometimes kids get molested.

(14:26):
Maybe they shouldn't dress like such slots. Trump went on
to state that he has had many pedophile friends and
associates over the years who have been fine, hard working Americans. Oh,
the onion pulls no punches. There was another one. Where
was that? Let me look it up here? It was

(14:47):
from the Babylon b man who vowed to release Epstein files,
erates idiots for believing there are Epstein files. After vowing
to release the Epstein files, President Trump berated supporters as
stupid and foolish for thinking there are Epstein files. By

(15:09):
the way, for those who don't know, the Babylon Bee
is santire Okay. Just a few months ago, Trump invited
several conservative influencers to the White House to receive binders
for what was supposed to be phase one of releasing
the Epstein files, which Trump said only total idiots believe exists.
It's all a hoax, and anyone who believed me about

(15:33):
it is a total chucklehead, said Trump to reporters in
the Oval Office. I said that when I invited those
morons to get the little miners, I said, look, how
stupid they are thinking there are Epstein files and these
binders labeled Epstein files. Then when we said that we
had the list on the Attorney General's desk, that people

(15:54):
believed us, how stupid could they be? They're really dunces,
my supporters. I'll tell you that. At publishing time, Trump
had announced that the DOJ, the Department of Justice, had
concluded its investigation and reported that no one named Jeffrey
Epstein has ever existed. I sware it's nuts out there.

(16:20):
It's chaos out there. I just cannot believe it. I'm
reading super chats on the show today, So if you
want to support me with the super chat, you are
most kind. Muttley said. The scary thing about that satire
is that it's so close to reality, and oh, satire

(16:43):
is really, really, really hard these days. And it's also
I think satire has always been a great way to
demonstrate absurdity, right, you expose absurdity by being absurd. All
truth lies in jest saying I am curious to find
out what your perspective on all of this is. And

(17:06):
I guess we can go into the did Jeffrey Epstein
kill himself conspiracy theories? I tend to go with the
Okham's razor explanation and they're wearing security cameras. A shit
ton of people did benefit with his death, but I

(17:26):
don't know that it will ever be known, So I
I just I feel like that's a rabbit hole that
I will never get out of. But I'll be curious,
you know, to find out what you think about that
as well, plus whatever else is on your mind, so
we're not locked into the files. We can talk about
whatever you want to talk about. Let's see, I've got

(17:49):
Karen at every code six' six's. Two, Karen are you with? Me, yes,
SIR i, Am, well what's on your? Mind what do
you want to talk?

Speaker 5 (17:59):
ABOUT i was calling because of just like a brief
history of, ME i grew up In, Mississippi i'm surrounded
by our religion and conspiracy, theories and it wasn't UNTIL
i found people like you on the internet got me
out of, that Thank, god BEFORE i voted For. Trump

(18:21):
BUT i think we need to be doing LIKE i
think some of us are kind of be in butt,
heads And i'm not saying that they can sit with,
us but we need to be kind of doing a
little bit of. Work i'm seeing a lot of people
around me start to LEAVE maga and they don't know
where to, go and they don't know what to do
with their. Brains because when you're leaving that way of,

(18:42):
thinking it kind of feels like your brain's, breaking you,
know and you've been. There BUT i don't. KNOW i
don't know what we can do and what information we
can put out there to, say, hey you've been duped
anymore than we are already. Have but surely To, god

(19:03):
there's a little bit of leg work we can do.
It does that make?

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Sense let me make sure i'm. Tracking are you saying
that we need to approach these people with a little
more grace because we've all been duped by bad? Ideas? Sure, yeah,
YEAH i did a whole speech on this called the
Brick Wall. Brain BUT i also find myself screaming at,

(19:29):
them at least in my, brain for being. Idiots And
i'm two people on this. SUBJECT i, mean that's. UNDERSTANDABLE
i think we all feel. That for, you you feel that, frustration, right, yes, yes,
Yes so what would your approach be.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
With A trump? SUPPORTER i don't know. That i've Actually
i've been trying to talk to a couple of people
about this BECAUSE i keep saying there's a group Called
Leaving maga that's trying to help people right, now AND
i keep seeing their videos, online and LIKE i take
care of my, grandparents my grandfather is a Hardcore trump.

(20:09):
Supporter he AND i end up in screaming matches almost.
DAILY i know that's not the way to do, it
BUT i am seeing people like my cousin and the
neighbor of, mine who both they voted For trump three,
times and they're slowly kind of they don't agree with
us on. Everything i'm not saying they, do but that

(20:31):
kind of that spell is breaking whatever hold. INSANE i don't,
know the insanity is kind of starting to break for,
them AND i honestly don't know WHAT i can do
other than be calm and rational and try my hardest
to show them that you know that they were. TRICKED

(20:56):
i don't know what to. Do that's kind of. WHAT
i don't.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Know what's the name of that side? Again, Escaping Maga,
Leaving Maga? Leaving is it A facebook? PAGE i? Think, no, no,
no it's an entire. WEBSITE i am. Curious let, Me
i'm going to take a look at. That you AND
i are in the same. Boat we want to grab

(21:19):
them by the shoulders and shake them and say how?
Stupid can you?

Speaker 6 (21:23):
Be?

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right it's at what? POINT i? MEAN i had a
conversation a couple of days ago with someone AND i
DIDN'T i didn't use that in that. LANGUAGE i was
how DO i say? This BUT i didn't use the
language of. ESCALATION i was asking a lot of. QUESTIONS
i was making. COMPARISONS i was trying, to you, know

(21:46):
get a little bit of, headway find common. Ground BUT
i will admit that under my, SKIN i was, thinking
what the hell's wrong with? You and THAT'S i think
that's something a lot of people are thinking and. Feeling
how many awful things have to be said and? Done
AND i don't.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
KNOW i you.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
KNOW I i don't.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
Know i'm in the, yeah like you, said we're in
the same. Boat AND i KEEP i don't, KNOW i
keep quoting on tyranny at. People but This, SCHNEIDER i don't.
Know my grandfather studied, history AND i looked at him
the other day AND i was, like you mean to tell,

(22:27):
me with your, background your, education you don't see authoritarianism
in our country right? Now and he looked me dead
the eyeballs and said. No AND i don't know what
you're supposed to do with, That, like, uh there are people,
Though LIKE i, Said i'm in a small town In,
mississippi and there are people here that are slowly getting

(22:50):
away from. It and Because i've let myself be known
as the town, liberal they keep talking to me about.
It for some.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
REASON i think.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
They're trying to convince, you and sometimes they're trying to convince,
themselves you. Know They if they can get you to,
switch then that means they were right all, along you,
Know SO i don't know you're. Right you can be
a perpetrator of awful ideas and be a victim of awful.
Ideas and let me make SURE i understand this. Point

(23:25):
those who are LEAVING. Maga we need to do a
better job of not, Saying, god you were an, idiot fuck.
Off you did all of these horrible, things And i'm
not going to forgive, you but whenever, possible to give
these people a little grace for changing their minds and
maybe helping lead them into a place of safety where

(23:47):
they can embrace better. Ideas is that close to what
your point?

Speaker 5 (23:51):
Is, yes, Yes like you can't sit at the table with.
Us you got to go sit in the corner for
a little. While think about what you've.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Done go think about what you've.

Speaker 7 (24:04):
Done, yeah you need to think about this for a, second.
BUDDY i was, LIKE i think about it LIKE i
would with my kid if she did, something you, know
throw a rock out a neighbor's, kid, Like and this
is way bigger than. THAT i acknowledge.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
That but if we don't give them a little, grace
they're going to just keep doubling. DOWN i, mean put.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Them in time, out but let them come back.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
To, yeah, yep.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yep, yep that's a that's. All that's the first Time
i've ever heard it phrase that, Way BUT i kind
of like. IT i appreciate, You, karen and thanks for,
listening for the kind. Words, okay.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
Thank, you have a good.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
ONE i see you. Later we're going to talk to
you about whatever is on your. Minds we continue in
just a. Moment it's a crazy, world and sometimes it's good,
events which is what we are doing today talking to

(25:09):
plenty of our listeners about whatever's on their. Mind SO
i Am i'm not sure when the next public protest.
IS i worry a little bit now after the two
big ones we had first weekend Of, april and then
there was one In july or, no it's In. June
these massive, protests The Uno kings protests that were happening

(25:31):
all around the. Country AND i was out there with
my sign and had a quote From Thomas jefferson about
how he rejected, monarchies AND i, thought, WELL i don't
know when the next event, is but it's time for
a new. Sign SO i had this mate The Republican
congress prepares to, convene and it has a pair of

(25:52):
lips With cheeto Orange cheeto dust all over, it and
they are using an Actual cheeto to make their lips.
Orange AND i, THOUGHT i JUST i thought it was.
Clever and then there's another. One hang ON i had one.
More you flip it so the other side of the
image is a riff. ON i think this was attributed To,

(26:16):
seneca BUT i don't think we actually know who said this.
Quote but the quote is first they fascinate the, fools
then they muzzle the. Intelligent So i'll be able to flip.
Those BUT i like. Coming CAN i having a high
end photoshopped kind of a, Sign but you, know, honestly

(26:37):
the handwritten ones are some of the, best and the most,
funny and the most, pointed the most, barbed and the
most clever. Signs But i've got those. Coming and then
somebody find out when the next event, is whether it's
the fifty to fifty one or whether it's No kings
or or whatever organization is putting the next one, on
and THEN i would like to be there and we

(26:58):
can spread the. Word let's take a look here For
bernard at four seven. Zero, Hi, bernard, Welcome.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Hey, Seith it's me The Billy jot from under the bridge.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Again what's on your, Mind? Bernard let's? Talk?

Speaker 4 (27:17):
Okay, well one thing that quote that goes back to
one of my, heroes That's Bertrand. Russell they muzzle you
know the intelligence and they That's bert And. Russell the
other thing is you have TO i THINK i can
be more forgiving when someone is willing to admit the
mistake and work with you to get out of. It

(27:37):
it goes back to the psychiatrist joke about how many
psychiatrists does it take to change the light, bulb and
the answer is. One but the light bulb must want to.
Change So i've never forgotten. That but the thing that
really bothers, me not only with the, evangelicals but just
with The christian viewpoint of their place in the universe

(27:59):
is really because they absolutely believe That heaven is their. Home,
okay that means that you're visiting. Here it's as if
you And natalie invite me to your. Home but aren't
these are the. Rules you have to take the shoes
off before you come in the, house be sweet and
kind to liness and to the. Pets treat them like,

(28:19):
family you. Know make sure that you're not not making
noise after twelve o'clock or. One i've got to follow
all the. Rules it's your. Home i'm a guest. There
what do you think about the viewpoints that we should
direct them to the understanding that even their view that
the earth is not their. HOME i, mean your view

(28:40):
is you're going to be raptured to go, home that
heaven is your.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
HOME i don't. Know for the, moment earth is their.
HOME i think they consider this their first, home and
then they're going to a permanent home at the end
of their decades on this temporary. Plane BUT i think
they see this as not just their, home but a
home that they have been given dominion. Over rooting that

(29:06):
in The book Of genesis As adam was given dominion
over the. Earth all of the resources here belong to
us for our use or to even. Exploit we are
living on our, home and when we, die we're going to.
Move So i'm not Sure i'm tracking with the analogy.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
There, okay that's a very very good. Point but then
you have to go back to As christ. Said you,
know no good tree produces bad, fruit and no bad
tree produces good. Food so we're looking at the results
of their biology and it's not. Good we can point
to it as to not being. Good the, transphobia the,

(29:46):
homophobia the, racism the, xenophobia the, misogyny it's the disrespect
for the. Environment how is anything good coming out of,
this and so even according to the teachings Of, christ
this is a very bad treat.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
In their, opinion they see it as righteousness BECAUSE lgbt
people are a perversion Of god's one, man one woman.
Model christians are supposed to go ye into all the
world and make. Disciples this is supposed to be not
just A christian, nation but A christian. World and if
you see the devil under every rock and its spiritual

(30:25):
warfare in their, minds they are doing what is. Right
they don't see it as.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Destructive but we have abundant empirical evidence that it is.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Well evidence and faith have often been at war with each,
other have they. Not you AND i showed them the
evidence for all kinds of, things the evidence for, evolution
the evidence that climate changes actually happening and it's human,
cause evidence that vaccines save. Lives we've shown them all
kinds of. Evidence but when you are in a belief,

(31:00):
culture and especially when you've been indoctrinated from an early,
age that's a tough wall to break. Through you, know
facts rarely change. MINDS i think something else has to happen.
First there has to be an opening of. Attitude so
that then the facts can break. THROUGH i think that
starts with the. HEART i think there's an emotional thing

(31:22):
that's going. ON i think relationships are. Important they say
one of the biggest factors for people changing their minds
is to expand their social. CIRCLE a lot of people
who scream about atheists and trans people And muslims and everybody,
else they don't have those people in their, lives so
they're easy to. Other but if they encounter those people

(31:46):
one on one as human, beings then the walls may
begin to come. Down that's my two. Cents, okay, okay
that doesn't make.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Sense BUT i was thinking of your as you were
speaking of your comments of what you when you Quoted Bertrand.
Russell you, know first you muscle the. Intelligence but there
was something that he complained about these when you do
with that, mindset he, said you forced him against the.
Wall you know what reason and whatever it, is then

(32:13):
they gladly leap over the. Wall and then granted tell
you that they now standing the room in which reason cannot.
Follow and he, said in there we must leave.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Them, bertrand thanks so much for being a part of the.
Show thanks for, Calling.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
Thank, you thank you for accepting the call all, right.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Be, Good we'll see you. Later he is right THAT
i THINK i got that quote mixed up with somebody.
ELSE i THINK i Said. Seneca it's not an exact
quote From Bertrand. Russell it is a consolidation of What
russell had. Said he had actually, said the first step
in a fascist movement is the, combination under an energetic,

(32:54):
leader of a number of men who possess more than
the average share of, leisure, brutality and. Stupidity the next
step is to fascinate fools and muzzle the intelligent by
emotional excitement on the one hand and terrorism on the.
Other so thank you for guiding me to the source on.

(33:15):
That i'm a Huge Bertrand russell. Fan the, philosopher you.
Know you spoke with that extremely aer udite and Proper british,
accent you, know and he would talk ABOUT i like
His it's, simple but it's, necessary like his perception on. Truth,
right if something is, true we should believe. It if
it is not, true we should, not and if we don't,

(33:36):
know we should withhold. Judgment why are you not A?

Speaker 8 (33:39):
Christian because as you, knew if it is whatever new
of The Christian Dougwars i've examined all the stock arguments
in favor of the existence Of, god and none of
them seemed to me to be Logically rarely do you think.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
There's a practical reason for having a religious belief for
many people.

Speaker 6 (34:00):
From, well it can't be a practical reason for believing
what isn't. True that's quite AT i rule it.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Out it is.

Speaker 6 (34:08):
Impossible either the thing is true or it. Isn't if
it is, true you should believe. It if it, isn't you.
Shouldn't and if you can't find out whether it's true
or whether it, isn't you should suspend in. Judgment but you.
Can't it seems to be a fundamental dishonesty and fundamental
treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you

(34:32):
think it's useful and not because you think it's.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
True let me tell you about this phone CALL i
had a couple of days. Ago SO i got somebody
who's maga and they want a, debate, discuss they want to,
discuss and AGAIN i can't help but think are they
trying to convince? THEMSELVES i don't, know but it was
part of the conversation was, well you don't believe in.

(34:55):
Creation i'm, like, WELL i mean like biblical, Creation, NO
i do. Not, well don't you look around and see
that everything is really miraculous and this is such it's
childlike Wonder but it's IF i may an infantile way
of looking at the world around. Us they see complexity

(35:18):
and they interpret that as a miraculous. Thing and as
you AND i both know there is wonderful stuff around,
us and there are absolute horrors in, nature we would
not call that a competent. Creation SO i begin to
kind of go down that. Road, well tell me why

(35:38):
our eyesight, degenerates and why do our joints wear out at?
Midlife and who put the windpipe next to the esophagus
so we choke to? Death and who put the appendix
in there so it explodes horrible infection into our bodies
and kills. Us all of these other things that are
really poorly. Designed and so then it would be, Came,

(36:00):
well where do you think life came? From if not
from a? GOD i don't. KNOW i know that the
elements of the cosmos are in our. BODIES i know
we are all star dust that went over like a lead.
Balloon you. Know but when you say it that, way
were the stuff of, STARS i mean the hydrogen and
the helium and the altogether. Whatever all that stuff is

(36:22):
in our. Bodies, Right and we can trace the singularity
back to a single point thirteen point eight billion years.
Ago but when did non life become? LIFE i don't,
Know And i'll tell you a. Secret you don't know. Either,
right if we don't, know we should withhold. Judgment and

(36:46):
THEN i WAS i tried not to be too, caustic
BUT i, SAID i can pretty much guarantee you that
the origins of humankind do not involve a cosmic father
who conjured a dirt man and a rib, woman two
garden nudists who chat it up, reptiles, right talking snakes

(37:08):
are not part of our origin. STORY i think we
can be very confident of. That why do you believe
in The book Of? Genesis, WELL i take it on.
Faith oh that door opens, up AND i am so happy.
Faith you take it on. Faith you just know it
in your, heart, right uh. Huh so then the street

(37:28):
epistemology kicks. IN A muslim comes in and says That
allah created humankind and harvested a man from SOMEWHERE i
forgot exactly what the islam origin story is on the
top of my, head and they take it on. Faith
and if you were to sit at the table next

(37:49):
to each, other AND i was a neutral, observer how
WOULD i know which of your faiths was the correct?
One if? Either and then if A hindu sent down
and they took it on faith at one of their
DearS created all, things and all three of you were,
there how would you be able to know whose faith was.
Correct there are so many of these questions that believers

(38:09):
have never before. Heard it's like for the first time
they are being presented with these. Situationals and then you
can smell the cognitive, dissonance you can smell the, conflict
you can see them, going, well you, KNOW i JUST
i just, KNOW i just. Know it's. Remarkable it's. Remarkable,

(38:30):
anyway thank you for the Bertrand russell. Reference, there of,
course correction from our. Audience this is WHY i love.
You i've gotten an off topic call apparently From. Colin
there is no. TOPIC i guess we were Talking epstein and,
believers but we'll talk about. Whatever, colin you're out Of,

(38:53):
Ohio you're on the. Air welcome to the show what's going?

Speaker 9 (38:56):
On, heys can you hear?

Speaker 2 (38:59):
ME i, can? Indeed what's?

Speaker 9 (39:01):
Up, Okay, Well i'll make it, quick BUT i just
wanted to share a funny story from my own personal deconstruction.
Journey so my. Parents both my parents Are, christian my father,
specifically and up until about a year, ago they ASSUMED
i was as. Well, Now i'm in no way here

(39:25):
to you, know bash my dad or anything like. THAT
i love him to, death but sometimes some of the
things he says is just batshit, crazy for a lack
of better. Words so he was over at my house one,
day noticed a few magnets on my, refrigerator noticed a
few BOOKS i had laying around the, house and the

(39:45):
magnets were specifically The satanic temple. Magnets i'm not A satanist,
myself but you, KNOW i do appreciate a lot of
the work they do with you, know separation at church
and state and women's right and all. That but what
was funny was he noticed notices all them and that's when,

(40:07):
he you, know made the connection you know THAT i
wasn't A. Christian and he made this, comment he, said he,
SAID i THOUGHT i raised you better than. This that
we you, know we've had discussions about that, since but
ever since he's always said that it's always kind of
rubbed me the wrong. Way but, Anyway i'm getting off.

(40:28):
TOPIC a few months, go a few months goes, by
my wife AND i are sitting on the couch uh at,
night WATCHING, tv just got the kids down for, bed
and we see a shadow coming from the kitchen and we're,
like you, know what is? That and you, know all
of a, sudden you start you start hearing the flapping
sounds and tiny little, squeaks and it dawned on us

(40:51):
that there was a bat flying around in our, kitchen you.
Know we so we we both bolted towards the, door
trying to cope sit. Outside i'd be lying IF i
didn't SAY i was probably the first one out the,
door but you, know after a few minutes we were
able to get it. Outside and we live in a

(41:13):
one hundred year old, house so it bats you, know
aren't uncommon for older homes at the first for us.
Though so, anyways we tell my parents this. Story you,
know my mom just thought it, was you, know just
a funny little. Story my, dad, however this is what
really takes it to the top without sugarcoating. It he

(41:34):
believed that a somehow a demon had manifested itself into our,
house and that the bat is not necessarily the demon,
itself but the bad omen triggering the demon into our.
House so for a really long time after, that he

(41:56):
really struggled to come around the house because he was
afraid that he would get you, know bad mojo coming
from our. House you, Know we've had many many talks after,
that and you, KNOW i THINK i Think i've got
him to a place where he at least feels comfortable
coming around. Occasionally but, YEAH i just thought that was

(42:16):
a funny story i'd share with.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
You so let me make SURE i understand, You. Colin
he thinks that perhaps Because god's headge of, protection which
is how it is often framed in the, church is not,
there that the bat was there sort of representing the
fact that you may be open to demonic. Influence.

Speaker 9 (42:39):
Correct i'm not sure if, he you, know did some
reading or where he necessarily got this information. From you,
know maybe it is biblical. Text i'm not familiar with.
That but he he thinks that bats often manifests themselves
to attract dark, forces and that it was inviting demons

(43:02):
into our.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
House that's.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Wacky THAT'S i thought so. Too how sad it is
to live a life though where everywhere you look you
can assign evil to. It in some. Way it's either
a harbinger of, evil or it represents the opening of
a door to, evil or it might be evil. Itself

(43:27):
i'm a product of The Satanic. PANIC i just saw the.
CONCERT i guess it's the last ever concert With Ozzy,
osbourne who Has parkinson's and he's way up there in
years and. So but he actually did a concert in
front like forty thousand, people and they brought him up
and he sat. Down they put him on this big
black throne and everybody was there was an outpouring of

(43:49):
love for decades of music and kind of who he.
Was and of course WHEN i was a kid during
The Satanic, panic people said he was an agent of
the devil, himself and he. Was his concerts Were satanic.
Rituals they said the same thing About Iron maiden And
kiss And Black. Sabbath you, dispriest How Stevie nicks was

(44:10):
supposed to be of the. Devil AND i think if
you live a life where your radar is always scanning
and you can find anything that's got pointy, teeth you,
know or as an, angler or you, know it looks
a little bit dissonant or. Whatever YOU i don't. KNOW
i think it's kind of a sad way to, Live.
Colin anything else BEFORE i move on is, no that's.

Speaker 9 (44:34):
IT i just, thought you, know with all the craziness
going on in the world right, NOW i share a
funny little. Story that's.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
All that's. Awesome, well all my best to, you and you,
know go and keep your eye out for more. Bats
i'm one of those guys who thinks they're super. CUTE
i just think bats are. AWESOME i want to put
a bad house in the back. Yard you. Know they
eat mosquitoes and they're kind of. Cool AND i know
down In austin once a year they the Bat, cruise

(45:01):
where they take this boat on a river and there's
a cave entrance and five squillion bats will fly out
at dusk and it's an. Event And i've always wanted
to see. That so you know what your dad, fears
we celebrate in, Nature. Coling, yeah that's.

Speaker 9 (45:18):
AWESOME i appreciate everything you, said and you keep up
the good.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Work appreciate you as. Well take. Care bats are awesome
AND i always am struck by how tiny they. Are
it was in an office once years ago and somebody
looked up on a hallway and there was a vat
and it was just sitting in the corner and obviously
it had gotten in by mistake or had come in
through a roof or a you, know creek crevice is

(45:45):
the Word i'm looking for in the. Roof and it
was just the cutest, Thing and of course you didn't
want it in there because it might get freaked out
and then hurt, somebody or someone would hurt. It so
we ended up trying to scoop it up into a
towel and then we took it out and.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Least.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
IT i don't even remember what happened after, that but
it was amazing AND i was, like bats are. AWESOME
i would love to have a bathouse in the. Yard
i'm still thinking about one last. Break hang, on we're
going to continue our conversation with you about whatever is
on your mind in just. Second thank you so much

(46:28):
for your support On. Patreon really big deal for. Me
it's a, huge huge way to support WHAT i do
to keep me doing WHAT i, do And i'm so
thankful for. You patreon dot com Slash Seth. Andrews let's. See,

(46:49):
Sorry i'm glancing at the chat BECAUSE i am one
guy with a. Switchboard james is dialing in from eight
one to seven, High james going, on.

Speaker 10 (47:02):
It's great to talk to. YOU i so appreciate your
show and your perspective on so many, things AND i
just wanted to call in and talk about how it's
so hard to just have any faith in the. Future
are like hope in the, future things have just gotten
so far off. Track i'm fifty six years. OLD i

(47:24):
live In. Texas me and my wife just celebrated our
thirty year. Anniversary we have two, children twenty two and.
SEVENTEEN i grew up in a small religious conservative town
In North texas and was very faithful in my attendance

(47:45):
of church WHEN i was growing. UP i, MEAN i
was taught all the things that we were all taught,
about how you, know treat others like you want to be,
treated love one, another nobody's better than anybody, else we're
all centers and all those. Things AND i, mean AND
i went about living my life in a very faithful.
Manner seeking out service Of. God and SO i started getting,

(48:07):
older AND i started realizing that that all those things
that those people told me were just they only meant
them for people like. US i, mean it wasn't meant for.
Everybody it was only for the people that were like.
Us and, SO i mean it made me really mad
for a, time AND i fell away from the, faith
AND i still haven't been a believer for quite some.

(48:30):
Time BUT i JUST i hate the way things are.
GOING i can't believe like those are the same people
now that have put our country into the position that were.
In it's Just i've watched people like my in. Laws
my father in law has been listening to the crazy
conservative talk radio for the past thirty years and he's

(48:53):
just completely. BRAINWASHED i, mean they watched they Consume Fox
news twenty four to seven at their, house and it's
just the continuous spew of outrage and getting people worked
up over. Things AND i just don't know how we
have any. Help my wife was over there last. Weekend
then my mother in law actually said to her that

(49:15):
she didn't believe any of the things that were going
on about people being rounded up out of their jobs
and their, workplaces that people were the only people are
being rounded up work or criminals and violent, offenders and
she was happy that that these people were being rounded
up and disappeared out of the. COUNTRY i see so

(49:38):
many bad things going on. Haven being the father of two,
Kids i've watched the school system In texas completely fall
apart because they'd like to privatize the school system and
make as much money off of it as they possibly.
Can so they're absolutely destroying our school. System AND i

(49:58):
JUST i feel like my, grandparents the people that raised
our parents, generation they understood that that the country you
had to give back to the. Country you owe so
much to the country because it gave so much to.
You we stand on the shoulders of, giants and so
we owe an obligation to the future. Generations and it
just feels like our parents, generation the, boomers they just

(50:24):
they took all the things that they were given to
them and they, said, oh, yeah this is all, mine
this is. Ours we did it by. Ourselves everything is,
ours and you, know too bad for the rest of.
You they pulled up the ladders behind them and that
they're absolutely destroying our, country and it's just so. Disheartening
it's so hard to find any hope and the way

(50:45):
things are, going especially when they don't even they say
they don't believe the, media but they do believe the,
media just the media that Like Fox, news that tells
them what they want to. HEAR i don't know how
you get passed when people there's no true more to people, Leave.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
But you're articulating what a lot of people are. Thinking
WHAT i think is ironic is when The fox newsers
are decrying the main quote mainstream, media And i'm, like
you're listening to the most popular quote unquote news channel
on in The United states and you're decrying the mainstream.

(51:23):
Media if we're going by sheer, numbers you are watching
the most mainstream news network in the. COUNTRY i find that,
ironic BUT i share your. Despair you, know it's easy
to burn a house. Down you can do that in fifteen,
minutes and it will take you a year to rebuild,
it depending on the. House AND i feel, like you,
know will it take, decades WILL i see in my

(51:45):
lifetime the restoration of what has been burned, down or
will it be restored at? ALL i think you are
essentially echoing what everybody else is saying as. Well we
all share, that but it's important not to give. Up
i'd rather go down. Fighting i'd rather go down standing
on the side of. RIGHT i think it's good medicine

(52:07):
to continue to activist and to spread lights in this
world of, darkness if you'll forgive that the, Cliche, James
but that's kind of WHERE i.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
Fall it's.

Speaker 10 (52:19):
HARD i, mean my wife is just working in a
consulting job because the last business that she worked at
completely fell. APART i, mean and she's been looking for
a job for quite some time, now and she's not
having any. Luck AND i think a lot of people
aren't having any. Luck it feels like if they were
going about trying to destroy the. COUNTRY i don't know
how you could tell the difference in what they're. Doing

(52:41):
they're completely destroying. Everything and when people are left without,
jobs without, money then we're at a point where it's
just so late that that it's going to be even
that much harder to try to dig out of the
hole that we're. In and people don't have. MONEY i
see people suffering every single, day and you don't see
these kind of things that on regular. MEDIA i think

(53:04):
it's an undercurrent that everybody talks about between, themselves but
it's not. Represented we're always caught up with the latest.
Scandal it's so. Ridiculous it's just, NonStop, crazy crazy thing
after crazy, thing and nobody. Tells everybody forgets about the
important things that we've already, lost like even. ABORTIONS i,

(53:25):
mean nobody's even up talking about that. Anymore but there's
women dying every day because they don't have access to
safe abortions because you can't keep up with the mess
that they've.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Created you are absolutely spot on. Correct ALL i know
to do is to keep fighting and to keep trying
despite my monumental. Frustrations so don't give, Up.

Speaker 10 (53:47):
JAMES i thank you FOR i think you've forgiven everybody
a place to come and be together and know that
we're not alone and people share our same. Thoughts you're
blessing TO i, MEAN i don't mean that in a really.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
GOTCHA i much. WELL i think you can bless be
a blessing to, people and it's not a supernatural. BLESSING
i buy.

Speaker 5 (54:09):
That.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
James it's very kind of you to say thanks for,
calling thank, You i'll see you. LATER i don't get
hung up on that. Stuff it's like when somebody. Sneezes
i've seen some atheism whenever someone else's bless you and they're, like,
WELL i don't believe in. Blessings that's just a dickish
thing to. Do i'm it's just. Stupid or if somebody

(54:30):
says Thank, god it's you, know it slips out of. Me,
OCCASIONALLY i don't mean it like an Actual, god but you,
Know i'm expressing. Gratitude, yeah is that really what we're
going to get tripped up? On there's some people are
so pedanic they're almost impossible to talk. To john had
a good point about The satanic temple magnet or sticker

(54:52):
that we were talking about. Earlier to set the record,
Straight satanism is not devil. WORSHIP i would Say satanism
is not necessari devil. Worship that is What, Jews christians
And muslims intentionally get, wrong or they're just ignorant and
don't know the. Difference but there ARE i, mean The
Satanic temple is an atheistic. Organization satan is an icon

(55:15):
that represents the liberation from. Tyranny but there Are satanists
who actually believe in A satan and worship A. Satan you,
Know satanism is like a whole bunch of other. Religions
you'll find flavors of all, kinds but The Satanic temple
they don't believe In god or the. Devil eric it

(55:39):
four zero. Three thanks for, waiting you're? On are you?

Speaker 4 (55:43):
There, Yeah i'm.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Here. Welcome let's. Talk what's on your? Mind?

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Hey, thanks thanks for having me. On i'm just curious
what your opinion was on Historical jesus versus a mythical.
ONE i know before you thought when you had your
you with Bart, erman you thought it was he was,
mythical and you argued for. It i'm just wondering if
it changed over the.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
Year.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
NO i think WHAT i did WAS i ask him
how he knew there was a Historical. JESUS i haven't
really taken a. Position what bothered me WHEN i spoke
to Doctor ermine AND i appreciate his Work jesus interrupted
as a great. Book there's a lot of his work
that is just absolutely stellar THAT i will lead with
often in. Conversations what bothered me WHEN i talked To

(56:27):
ermine was WHEN i, mentioned, well do we really know
that there was a Historical? Jesus he laughed at, me
and he laughs at mythicists like they're stupid and, deluded
and then he sort of plays this broad, card where
will all the experts agree anybody credible already agrees there

(56:50):
was a Historical. Jesus, well you, know MAYBE i can go.
There we talk about evolutionary experts are reading that we
are all evolved in all life is, related blah blah.
Blah but the way it came off almost sounded like
an argument from, authority like if we don't, know we

(57:11):
are pretty sure that there was A paul who wrote
thirteen books in The New. Testament BUT i don't even
think that that's not proven with a CAPITAL. P and
CERTAINLY i don't think we can prove the existence of The.
Apostles and while there may have been a charismatic guy

(57:31):
Named jesus that the mythology is based, ON i don't
think anybody has proven definitively that That jesus. Existed SO
i just don't know what's your, Position, uh.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Mine that there was a Historical jesus BECAUSE i was
kind of in the same boat as. You but since that,
interview Even i've read and listened to more subject about,
it material about, it And i'm JUST i don't. Know
i'm Pretty i'm on the side of burner about. It
i'm pretty convinced that there was, one just because of
the all the references And josephus and stuff like, that

(58:06):
and this other BOOK i was reading Called dominion By Tom,
holland and it's fairly detailed as, well And i'd recommend it,
honestly but not trying to plug it or. Anything it
was just a good one THAT i came across last.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Year the problem With josephus is The antiquities was seventy
years after the alleged crucifixion Of christ and one hundred
years after his, birth and, there AS i understand it
is some contention about whether or not a reference To,
jesus which was JUST i think one line may have

(58:38):
been added as a kind of pocket gospel by somebody
who was Not josiphus for political. Reasons SO i don't.
KNOW i mean, is do we Take josephus and The
antiquities long decades after the events supposedly. Happened do we
take that AS i witness? REPORTING i find that a

(59:00):
little bit. Problematic what do you?

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Think, uh, yeah for, SURE i get that. TOO i
just don't like AS i haven't READ i haven't read
any Of josephus's real. STUFF i just know through their
works that they. REFERENCE i think it is the one
LINE i can't remember what it, is so antiqularly.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Is of The.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Jews but, uh just how hm, hmm just how solid of? Evidence,
well the evidence and an argument that they. GIVE i
just find it very hard to push back and go
back to thinking that it was he didn't exist at
all kind of.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Thing, WELL i THINK i don't know is the right.
Answer but when you say, Evidence i'm super. Curious so
we've Got Joe cifas AROUND i think ninety c or
one HUNDRED. Ce beyond, that the evidence would be WHAT.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
I, Guess, well then the letters Of, PAUL i, suppose
right that would mention, him even Though paul never met
Him jesus. Personally, Either it's still that was only thirty
years or So paul was righting after his, death so
it wouldn't have been too far. FET i don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
So he was referring to a character that he had
never met, personally but apparently the cultural echo of the
life of A christ was so strong that he assumed
it in his own writings.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
And LIKE i, Said i'm not because that stuff. Goes
i'll read it and THEN i could forget, it you,
know we kind of. Thing So i'm just trying to
remember back to. It BUT i remember being pretty well
wholly convinced about.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
IT i don't, know but, yeah AND i think it's
an academic. Question it's. Interesting but as long AS i
know that The, superman the God, man you, know the
Levitating jesus that you, know the Zombie jesus that you,
KNOW i know That jesus didn't, exist and then ONCE
i start, there the rest is kind of. ACADEMIC i

(01:00:55):
find it something we can talk about over, coffee BUT
i don't get too hung up on. It, okay, okay all, Right.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Eric, yeah, NO i just LIKE i had to change
opinion on that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
LINE i. Hadn't my opinion was ALWAYS i don't, know
and so, no my opinion is not.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Check, yeah that's the same. One thanks for taking my.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Call all, Right thanks for. Calling appreciate. You, YEAH i don't.
KNOW i, mean do you care if there was an
ACTUAL i, mean if there was a dude that would
add a layer to the. Onion but you, KNOW i Think,

(01:01:39):
Carrier Dave fitzgerald and others say That christ is a
combination of other kind of cosmic. DEITIES i may be
saying this, incorrectly SO i beg your. Forgiveness but it
was a genre god that had been injured into its own,

(01:02:01):
mythology and it was not based on any one human.
Being While Bart ermin and others say, that, well there
almost certainly was a. Guy And ermine himself is an
atheist or an. Agnostic he doesn't believe That christianity is literally,
true but he does believe that there was a Literal.

(01:02:22):
Jesus oh that's ALL i. Got that's ALL i got
an honor to be able to spend time with.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
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