February 28, 2024 • 34 mins
The provincial government has left Nova Scotia property owners to rely on their own instincts and better judgments when it comes to protecting coastal property. Environment Minister Tim Halman introduced the government’s plan for coastal resiliency, The Future of Nova Scotia’s Coastline this week. The Progressive Conservative say the plan will protect people, homes and nature from climate change along Nova Scotia’s 13,000 kilometres of coastline by introducing 15 actions for property owners, municipalities and the province to take to make coastal homes, communities and natural areas safer. The plan supplants the Coastal Protection Act that passed with full support of all Nova Scotia political parties in 2019 but was never proclaimed. In this podcast, we hear from Carolyn Bolivar-Getson from the NS Federation of Municipalities and Marla MacLeod from the Ecology Action Centre along with Minister Halman.
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(00:10):
Novuscus Is Coastal Protection Act a peaceof legislation introduced by Steph McNeill's Liberal government
in twenty nineteen. At the time, it was passed with approval of all
of the political parties in the House, and the Saltwire columnist Gale Lethbridge pointed
out recently, it was intended toprovide greater protection along the thirteen thousand kilometers
coastline in the province, protecting dunesand salt marshes and lands that are most
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vulnerable to erosion storms. Regulations willrestrict where people can build and develop land
along the coastlines well. The delayin actually proclaiming the law fell to the
Progressive Conservative government of Tim Houston,and by all accounts the Minister of Environment
and Climate Change was all for it, or at least he was still promising
to put it in place first bymid twenty twenty three, then pushing that
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out to twenty twenty five. Andas we learned this week, the Coastal
Protection Act is relegated to the recycledBin in favor of a new voluntary coastal
plan. Minister Hallman make clear thisweek it'll be up to Nova Scotia property
owners to rely on their own instinctsand better judgments when it comes to protecting
coastal property question. The reaction cameon stronger than a title surge and government
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is facing hurricane force opposition from somegroups. Coming up, we'll hear my
conversation with Minister Tim Hallman. We'llalso get reaction to the Nova Scotia Federation
of Municipalities and the Ecology Action Center. This is my podcast for Salt Wine
and i'd invite you to take timeto like and share and comment. I'm
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Sheldon McLeod and this is Thinking outLoud Now. This is from a news
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release that came out on Monday fromthe Federation of Municipalities. It said the
provincial government is opted not to proceedwith the implementation of a province wide Coastal
Protection Act. Instead, they've unveileda strategic initiative, the Future of Nova
Scotia's Coastline, the plan to protectpeople, homes, and nature from climate
change along our coast Now. Theinitiative includes a mapping tool to aid property
(02:23):
owners and municipalities in identifying areas susceptibleto coastal risks. Now, province is
asking municipalities to participate in coastal protectionefforts through land used planning. It goes
on to say, while NSFM recognizesgovernment's new approach as a replacement for the
Coastal Protection Act, which will notadvance at this time, the Federation expresses
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disappointment in the shift away from acomprehensive and uniform provincial strategy. Carolyn Bulliverer
gets some President of the Nova ScotiaFederation of Municipalities, the municipality of the
District of Lunibirg. I know thatthe municipality has talked a lot about the
Coastal Protection Act. Tell me aboutthe situation in regards to the Federation of
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Municipalities. What was your assessment ofwhat the province announced today? Well,
the provincial government has opted not toproceed with the implementation of the Coastal Protection
Act and instead have ruled out thefuture of Nova Scotia's coastline, which has
put in place tools for the municipalitiesto use to move forward with a by
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law on their own, but ithas definitely put that down two municipalities to
do that. So I guess Iwould have rather seen a provincial approach to
coastal protection so that we definitely whendevelopers are going from municipality to municipality that
the rules would all be the same. But that's not going to be the
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case now. I think that thetool is something definitely worthwhile heaven our toolbox,
and it definitely will be beneficial toreal estate agents, to residents,
to anyone out there that is lookingat building to provide them with the information
knowing what their property would look likein the year twenty one hundred. As
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you point out, this is shiftingsome of that regulatory responsibility to municipalities,
and as the person responsible for speakingon behalf of municipalities, it sounds as
though, as you say, thisisn't the best for you for municipal units,
what challenges does that present specifically towhat your perspective is where it is
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something that will be up to municipalcouncils to discuss, debate and devise.
So again, when you move forwardwith a coastal protection by law or municipal
planning to definitely address this, thereare different things that you have to consider
in the call to do this isdefinitely one, and the planning capacity within
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smaller municipalities to be able to rollout such a plan. So that provided
that there is funding available to municipalitiesto assist them with that is something that
definitely NSFM will be looking at andmaking sure that everyone will have that opportunity
if that's the wish they or thedirection they choose to go in. But
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again, one approach would have beensimple. I know that the municipality of
the District of Lunaburg did ask fora moratorium back before we proceed it and
to wait for the Coastal Protection byLaw, but it appears that that's not
going to be the case. Soagain the Coastal Protection by Law will not
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be moving forward. So this isthe tool that we have to work with
at this time far and away,not any not all municipalities have the resources
that HRM does. Tell me itwhat kind of pressures you foresee for municipal
units and trying to adopt a planthat does everything the government is promising to
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do through this piece of well,through this mechanism instead of the Coastal Protection
Act. Well, again, therewill be navigators put in place my understanding
from the province to help assist municipalitiesto roll this out and residents and again
for residents to be able to lookat this. This is definitely a valuable
tool from that perspective. But NSFMwill be continuing to seek clarification on how
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the infrastructure funding will be integrated intothis new plan, because there was talk
of that as well, and makingsure that the Federation is coordinating with the
membership our municipalities to make sure thatthey the financing is coming up along with
us. In your past political experience, you've had opportunity to sit as a
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member of cabinet and be in government. What I'm not asking you to try
to read the minds of anyone inthis current administration, but what do you
see as the perhaps reason for thismove as opposed to actually putting in place
legislation that passed the House of Assembly. Well, I will speak on behalf
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of the mayors of the municipality ofthe District of Luneburg right now, and
we went through a lot of publicconsultation in relation to we were actually supposed
to roll out first reading tomorrow forour coastal protection by law and right now
we're looking at what this actually meansand the looking at the numbers that they
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used to the year twenty one hundred. They're definitely different than the numbers that
we used. So we even atwhat point in time, at what was
at the high water mark, whatwas the measure that they used for storm
surge. So there's a lot ofthings here that need to be answered from
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that perspective. But when you're lookingat the overall picture here and there were
people opposed, there were people for, there were people developers who wanted to
develop their land, and there's definitelypeople who want to see the protection in
place. There were people who wantedto see a mixture so that there was
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alternate building techniques being allowed to usethat we see in some of our southern
parts to accommodate storm surge and soon. So I don't think it there
is a one glove fits all,but I think that the overall umbrella could
have came from the provincial government togive municipalities the direction that they needed to
move forward with coastal protection. AndI do know you're familiar with the Ecology
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Action Center there release that came outjust after the one from the Federation Pipalities
described this as a failure of leadership. Do you feel that's fair? I
do believe that there's some good Thisis a good tool that is put in
place to have that work already carriedout. I wish we would have had
it months ago from the mapping perspective, so that we would all be on
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the same page from moving forward andhaving the same data to work with.
I think that this is a valuabletool from that perspective. Again, I
feel that it could have been handleddifferently, and that from a provincial point
of view, I think that theopportunity was there for that. And does
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this create any special challenges where we'rejust what seven months away from municipal elections
in Nova Scotia, there's no waythat municipalities will be able to roll this
out in the time for not inthat timeframe. We've been working on this
for over a year to get tofirst reading. Again, there's a lot
of information. This will definitely expediatesome of this for municipalities, But again
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it's the dollars associated with rolling thisout, having the staff to be able
to do it, and what typeof role in SFM will have to play
to make sure that municipalities do havethe tools to be able to do this
in a coordinated effort. And youmentioned navigators will be available through at least
your understanding of what the province anownstoday. Did they suggest there would be
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money. They did definitely indicate thatthere has been money for inland flood plane
mapping and some other things that isgoing on here. And that's another piece
to this too, the inland floodingpiece that will follow after this rollout.
So there's still work that's being doneon that piece of it. So as
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we know of the flood of Julytwenty first, that was not coastal on
our part, It definitely was inlandflooding that caused the damage throughout these areas.
Climate change is real and I don'tthink anyone is denying that fact.
But it's how we move forward andwhat information that we have. And like
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I said, I do commend theprovincial government for the resources for this interactive
tool that they have put in place. And I've had the opportunity to look
at it a little bit, butthis is also new that it hasn't given
us the real opportunity to look tosee what it actually what capabilities it actually
has, and how to move forwardfrom here. Did you know this was
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coming or was this a surprise?Well, these are always surprises when we
get these, but we were briefedon this, okay, and anything that
I didn't ask that you think isimportant for people to know about this.
The government's announcement and the decision notto put the Coastal Protection Act into action
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again, the NSFM will continue itsadvacy efforts and actively seek clearification on how
this infrastructure funding will help with theplan going forward, and we will be
coordinating a meeting with the municipalities andthe department to make sure that they're properly
briefed and have all the information thatthey need and understand what actually has rolled
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out here today. And I don'tthink any of us can speak with certainty
exactly what that is yet. TheEcology Action Center, they've been advocating for
the environment in Nova Scotia for morethan fifty years. Their news release on
Monday carried this blunt assessment. TheEAC calls to the Nova Scotia government's coastal
plan a failure of leadership. I'mMarlon McCloud, director of Programs with the
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Ecology Action Center. This was describedas a failure of leadership. Tell me
why, well it was? Iwill say it was a shock to hear
this news today, and my firstreaction was really that the Coastal Protection Act,
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which had so much potential for theprovincial government to really take leadership and
to really take collective action to helpus as Nova Scotians adapt to climate change,
they've just downloaded all of this responsibilityon individuals and municipalities and so they've
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really they are failing to act.What is it that is missing? What
will you perceive to be the failingsof doing it this way as opposed to
the way that all parties agreed toin the legislature outside of actually implementing it.
They all agreed in principle to votefor this legislation, and it was
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somewhat bogged down in the actual rules, regulations and implementations. So what do
you feel is the difference. Well, the difference is that when you have
regulations governing how we can treat ourcosts, we first off all have to
abide by them. There's no there'sno picking and choosing, and this is
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a problem that impacts everybody. Soif you say, you know what,
it's not safe for us to buildthis building, you know this distance from
the coast, and there were therewere a number of It was it was
to be implemented in a way thatif you were within a zone near the
coast, you had some kind ofassessment. And you know, if you're
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on granite, it's different than andyou're on if you're on a softer rock,
if you're way up on a hill, it's different than if you are,
you know, at sea level.And so this allowed. The plan
was that the regulations would allow someflexibility, but that everybody would be subject
to these rules. And essentially thisstops us from building too close to our
coasts, and we have to thinkof our coasts as the buffer between those
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of us who live on land andthe ocean and a healthy coastline. It
moves, it naturally moved, andso if you set your buildings back and
you ensure that your coastal ecosystems aresafe, then you have room to absorb
storm surge or you know, havethat space for erosion that is naturally going
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to occur, but it is worseningwith with a change in climate. And
now we don't have this. Whatwe have is an education campaign. We
would always have needed an education campaign, but it has no it has no
teeth. When the municipalities are eachexpected to come up or to use this
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as a way to guide them throughthis. What do you see as the
challenges as opposed to having one standardor one set of regulations province wide.
Well, if you have one standardor one set of regulations province wide,
a it's a lot easier on everybody. Every there is one set of rules
that everybody's playing by, and ittakes the pressure off of all of the
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different planning departments, the town councils. What is going to have to happen
now is that you know, especiallyin these smaller towns where you don't have
a particularly large planning department, isthat they now have all of the responsibility
to support their council in making thesechoices. And you're going to get a
piecemeal approach to something that should havebeen comprehensive and we could have been proud
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of and now we're just getting dribsand drabs everywhere. And this is an
emergency, and an emergency you don'twant drips and drabs, you want firm
action. If in fact, thereare as you acknowledge different geographical considerations.
You know, Eastern Shore is differentthan Minus Basin, different than Kingsburg.
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Is there a case to be madethe regional approaches might actually be more active,
more responsive, and perhaps more effective. I don't think so, because
because you you couldn't have, forexample, different topographies even within the same
municipalities. Many of our municipalities aregeographically quite large. And again it's that
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it's the resources. You know,if we had one common set of standards,
you could you could resource that properly, and you could resource it provincially.
Instead, there's going to be aduplication of efforts across every single municipality.
There's almost you know, there's ahandful of municipalities that are on coastal,
but by and large we are acoastal province and almost every almost every
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municipality is going to have to dealwith this. And Mayor Carolyn Boliver getson,
the president of the Federation of NovaScotia Municipalities, point out points out
that we had severe flood damage inlandin Nova Scotia last summer. Does this
plan, in your opinion, inany way take that into consideration. That's
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a good question. I have todive into all of the tools, so
I don't know that I can fullyanswer that. However, I do think,
you know, what I had hopedto see was we would have dealt
with this coastal question and then wecould be looking next steps at the at
the flooding question, because there isand as we learned last summer, we
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absolutely have issues inland as well.And what I would have envisioned would be
two companion pieces of of of ofregulation. I had asked, and maybe
unfairly the head of the Federation toask what to perhaps explain or give some
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thoughts as to why why does MarlonMcLoud think the government shows this path as
opposed to, uh, you know, enacting and putting into action the Coastal
Protection Act. I would love toknow why. I don't know why I
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and I don't even know that Ican speculate. What I can say,
however, is that this government,when they were running in the election,
promised that they were a government thatwould listen. And we know they've received
over one thousand letters in support ofthe regulations for this act, and they
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haven't listened to the people. Youknow, there's a thousand people they've just
ignored. They've received letters from municipalities, so there's a dozen or more municipalities
that they are not listening to.I don't know who they're listening to,
but it doesn't seem fair to ourcitizens, or to our municipal governments,
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or to our future. Final question, Marlin, is there anything else that
you would like to add that Ididn't touch on or discuss. Hmmm.
I know that's an open ended question, but I think I think that's everything.
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I think the language is very clear, very very blunt, that this
is a failure in leadership. Didyou want to talk to that at least
before we can conclude about why TheEcology Action Center says that's a failure of
leadership. I think this is afailure of leadership because I expect better from
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our government. We have a governmentthat says that they care about climate action,
but when the rubber has hit theroad, so to speak, they've
not done the thing. They havenot done the basic thing, the starting
action, which is to stop buildingin places that are unsafe, and they
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have downloaded that to other people.So I'm seeing I'm seeing a government that,
when it came time to act,has failed to act and they have
put us all at risk. Andfinally, here's my conversation with Minister Tim
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Holman on Tuesday over this decision.Okay, let's talk about this here,
not proclaiming the Coastal Protection Act.What does this non legislative approach do that
the Act could not? So?What this does It provides a much more
comprehensive, flexible approach to coastal action. The twenty nineteen Coastal Protection Act,
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it was very narrow in its focus. It just focused on new builds.
While this action plan that Minister Lauraand I presented to Nova Scotians yesterday,
this is a much broader plan thatis anchored on three principles. The first
principle is supporting informed decision making,and we're going to do that by encouraging
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Nova Scotians to access an online mapwhich indicates the hazardous areas along our coasts,
along with access to navigators that willhelp you interpret that information and so
that those navigators will help you determinewhat's best for your property. The second
principle is supporting municipal leadership. I'vebeen saying for many years as Minister,
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it's an all hands on deck approachto climate action, and we want to
work with our municipal partners. Theyknow the community's best and we'll work with
them to design an example by lawin order to administer this. And the
third principle Sheldon of this plan isto align resources for coastal protection. So
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we announced three million dollars yesterday forongoing floodline mapping, to put up signs,
public works will put up signs inknown hazardous areas, and all of
this is designed to empower Novascotians oncoastal action. You said flexibility, but
why is making action voluntary a betterplan? Yeah, Look, we've put
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this coastal Action Plan in the frameworkof our overall climate policies. In twenty
nineteen, when the Coastal Protection Actwas passed, you didn't have legislated climate
change targets. We do now throughthe Environmental Goals and Climate Change Reduction Act.
In twenty nineteen, we didn't havea climate plan. In twenty nineteen,
we didn't have a climate risk assessment. In twenty nineteen, we didn't
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have the Sustainable Communities Challenge Fund.So this Coastal Action Plan frames up very
well within our overall comprehensive climate approach. And look, we believe as a
government Nova Scotians, you know,we trust Nova Scotians we believe they can
make informed decisions. Our role isto make sure we get them the appropriate
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information so that they can make aninformed decision about their property. What and
I'm not asking you to speak toa hypothetical though, we've recently seen flooding
in which the government was approached tobuy properties, and flood zones and flood
planes. So if it's a voluntarysituation and someone chooses to ignore the warning
signs or ignore the government data orthis information, what protections do taxpayers have?
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What protections do communities have? Yeah? Well, the first greatest protection
in anything is to inform yourself.And there is a multitude of information out
there that we will help Nova Scotiansnavigate. What we know yesterday was specifically
related to coastal to coastal flooding,the inland flooding which we witnessed and many
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Nova Scotians experienced last spring and summer. Certainly, government is working on procedures
to deal with the inland flooding.For example, at my department, we've
hired a stormwater engineer along with aflooding manager, a flood manager that will
help the municipalities deal with the inlandThe inland flooding with respect. If it's
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information, someone choosing to ignore thatinformation or decides to do it anyway,
what protection do neighbors have? What'sin place to prevent that from happening.
Yeah, So what I'd say tothat is, you know, Nova Scotians,
I think are very reasonable. They'llmake an informed choice for their property.
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They know it's best for their property. We need to make sure we
get them the information to make aninformed choice. I think what I'd say
to that, Sheldon is, look, I mean, we have very very
strong climate change policies in Nova Scotia, and we encourage residents to make the
best informed choice about building on theirproperty. We have a really diverse coastline,
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thirteen thousand kilometers of diverse coastline,so you know, what may work
for coastal action or coastal protection inInverness could be very different, say in
Claire in our gyles. So thebottom line is, you know, we
trust Nova Scotians to make an informedchoice, and we're giving them the tools
to make sure they make an informedchoice. And maybe it's an inappropriate analogy,
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but there are all kinds of differentroads, from one hundred series highways
to back lanes, but there's oneMotor Vehicle Act, and some may say
why not have a set of rulesthat apply right across the board. Yeah,
I mean it's an excellent question,and certainly it was one that we
discussed eternally. There was a lotof analysis that went into this. But
at the end, I think forthis to be the most flexible and effective
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action plan, we need to respectthe diversity, the geological diversity of Nova
Scotia, so that a municipal unit, when they do their bylaws, it
may be different in Cape Breton,say, versus the south shore or southwest
Nova Scotia. And I mean currentlyright now, we have thirteen point one
percent of Nova Scotia's coastline protected throughour provincial parks, our nature reserves,
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our wilderness areas. So there's alot of protection that already exists. And
then also as we advance our twentypercent land and water conservation target, there'll
be much more land and water conservedalong the coast. The Federation of Municipalities
Carolyn Bolivergetz yesterday said they were disappointedin the shift away from what was a
comprehensive and uniform provincial strategy. Sohow is this planned better. How does
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it help municipalities. Yeah, socertainly. Look, I have the utmost
respect for the Nova Scotia Federation ofMunicipalities, the utmost respect for our councilors,
wardens and mayors. Minister lore A, Minister John Lure will be working
with our municipal units to design exampleby laws. That's why we didn't come
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out yesterday and say, you knowhere it is. We are saying to
our municipal units, let's meet,let's talk. You know, As a
minister, I believe climate action involved. It's shared responsibility and we need,
we need our municipal units to leadthe way on this and the province will
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partner with you on this. Soin many respects, this is the strength
of the action plan is that youhave a shared responsibility for coastal action with
property owners, with the province andour municipal units. Annapolis Value is not
a Halifax or Annapolis Royal, isnot Cape Breton Regional Municipality. What supports
are there, what financial help willbe there to make sure that the rules
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are appropriate and do what government saysthis will accomplish. Yeah, so definitely.
The third pillar of this plan isto align resources with coastal protection.
So we'll be working with our municipalunits to do extensive floodline mapping. To
the credit of the federal government,they've partnered with us to accomplish that.
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That information is absolutely key. Wehave the goal of having the entire province
mapped out by twenty twenty seven interms of knowing where all the hazards are
for flooding. That is going tobe indispensable information. Yes, today we
announced three million dollars you know,to align resources immediately for coastal action.
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And I can tell you as Ministerand share Treasury and Policy Board that it's
a it's a priority of mind andthe premiere to to ensure Nova Scotians have
the most up to date information sothat they can secure their properties and live
safely in their communities in the timeof climate change. And with all due
respect again this you know, we'rein a housing corust we're talking about building
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properties and ocean up front property isnot necessarily you know, affordable and accessible
to many. But how is thisnot just do what you want and take
your chances and sell the property laterand whoever buys in the future be damned.
Yeah, and I'd say, whatthis is is the Government of Nova
Scotia further empowering individuals and municipalities tomake the right choice. What we're trying
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to do here is set people upfor success while respecting their property rights,
along with utilizing a climate lens,a climate change lens. As the province
grows and as you know, Sheldon, I mean, this is unprecedented population
growth that we've had in Nova Scotia. I think you have to go to
pre confederation census data to see asmuch population growth as we've seen in the
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last ten years. So look,when the Act was passed in twenty nineteen,
it was in a silo and weneeded to frame coastal action in our
overall climate climate initiatives, and thisaction plan fits very very well within our
overall climate action plans. How doeshow long has the Department been working on
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this plan instead of the regulations forthe Act. Yeah, so I can
tell you I was appointed minister atthe end of August twenty twenty one,
and I can tell you since thatpoint in time, we've been analyzing and
looking at the best path forward.A lot of discussion, a lot of
analysis, a lot of consultation hasgone into this. So we as a
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government, as a team did notarrive at this willy nilly like we A
lot of thought and work went intoit. And let's want to take this
opportunity to thank my incredible team hereat Environment Climate Change for the great work
that they did in the development ofthese plans. And maybe I misheard you,
but if it was never an intentionto proclaim that is law, is
this? Can this not be interpretedas a broken promise? No? I
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mean, certainly we looked at alloptions and that was one of the options.
But at the end of the day, I determined the Act was too
narrow in its focus, and asa result of that, I wanted to
I want to frame this up inour overall action plans, Environmental Goals and
Climate Change Reduction Act, the ClimateRisk Assessment, the Climate Plan, Sustainable
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Communities Challenge Fund, and as oftoday, as of yesterday, I mean,
we have a strong climate action plan. NOVA Scotians as of now can
interact with the online tools and getthe information they need about the hazards along
the coast, and if they needhelp interpreting that information about their property,
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we've put in place navigators to helpthem get a coastal hazard risk assessment of
their property. And I guess thefinal question is my understanding through other media's
say, is that the consultation isnot going to be released publicly although it
was collected to get a public opinionon this. Who lobbied for this,
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so that round of consultation the contractis still open. We distributed in that
consultation to rap cards information cards consultationcards to forty thousand property owners I received
our department received a response of onethousand and seventy. So we utilized the
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feedback from that consultation in the developmentof this action plan. And once the
contract is closed on this, we'llhave more to say on that consultation.
So you're saying it was landowners,but developers as well who were saying that
this should be not the Coastal ProtectionAct, but this plan instead. What
I'm saying is there's a diversity,a diversity of opinion on that Act and
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a diversity of opinion on coastal actionin general. And I think as a
result of all that diverse opinions thatare out there, you know, some
saying absolutely, you know, proclaimthe Act, others saying this is not
the Avenue to go down because it'stoo narrow in its focus. I believe
the action plan strikes a good balancein taking coastal action but also respecting the
(33:38):
rights of property owners in Nova Scotia. Minister Herman, I appreciate your time,
Thank you, Thank you, Sheldonall the best, take care.
I'm Sheldon McLeod and I hope youfound this informative. Thanks for listening and
this reminder. Salt Wire is yourconnection to news and community. Become a
(34:00):
member to day. This is thinkingout Loud, presented to you by Saltwire
Novuscus Is Coastal Protection Act a peaceof legislation introduced by Steph McNeill's Liberal government
in twenty nineteen. At the time, it was passed with approval of all
of the political parties in the House, and the Saltwire columnist Gale Lethbridge pointed
out recently, it was intended toprovide greater protection along the thirteen thousand kilometers
coastline in the province, protecting dunesand salt marshes and lands that are most
(00:33):
vulnerable to erosion storms. Regulations willrestrict where people can build and develop land
along the coastlines well. The delayin actually proclaiming the law fell to the
Progressive Conservative government of Tim Houston,and by all accounts the Minister of Environment
and Climate Change was all for it, or at least he was still promising
to put it in place first bymid twenty twenty three, then pushing that
(00:56):
out to twenty twenty five. Andas we learned this week, the Coastal
Protection Act is relegated to the recycledBin in favor of a new voluntary coastal
plan. Minister Hallman make clear thisweek it'll be up to Nova Scotia property
owners to rely on their own instinctsand better judgments when it comes to protecting
coastal property question. The reaction cameon stronger than a title surge and government
(01:19):
is facing hurricane force opposition from somegroups. Coming up, we'll hear my
conversation with Minister Tim Hallman. We'llalso get reaction to the Nova Scotia Federation
of Municipalities and the Ecology Action Center. This is my podcast for Salt Wine
and i'd invite you to take timeto like and share and comment. I'm
(01:41):
Sheldon McLeod and this is Thinking outLoud Now. This is from a news
(02:02):
release that came out on Monday fromthe Federation of Municipalities. It said the
provincial government is opted not to proceedwith the implementation of a province wide Coastal
Protection Act. Instead, they've unveileda strategic initiative, the Future of Nova
Scotia's Coastline, the plan to protectpeople, homes, and nature from climate
change along our coast Now. Theinitiative includes a mapping tool to aid property
(02:23):
owners and municipalities in identifying areas susceptibleto coastal risks. Now, province is
asking municipalities to participate in coastal protectionefforts through land used planning. It goes
on to say, while NSFM recognizesgovernment's new approach as a replacement for the
Coastal Protection Act, which will notadvance at this time, the Federation expresses
(02:44):
disappointment in the shift away from acomprehensive and uniform provincial strategy. Carolyn Bulliverer
gets some President of the Nova ScotiaFederation of Municipalities, the municipality of the
District of Lunibirg. I know thatthe municipality has talked a lot about the
Coastal Protection Act. Tell me aboutthe situation in regards to the Federation of
(03:07):
Municipalities. What was your assessment ofwhat the province announced today? Well,
the provincial government has opted not toproceed with the implementation of the Coastal Protection
Act and instead have ruled out thefuture of Nova Scotia's coastline, which has
put in place tools for the municipalitiesto use to move forward with a by
(03:31):
law on their own, but ithas definitely put that down two municipalities to
do that. So I guess Iwould have rather seen a provincial approach to
coastal protection so that we definitely whendevelopers are going from municipality to municipality that
the rules would all be the same. But that's not going to be the
(03:53):
case now. I think that thetool is something definitely worthwhile heaven our toolbox,
and it definitely will be beneficial toreal estate agents, to residents,
to anyone out there that is lookingat building to provide them with the information
knowing what their property would look likein the year twenty one hundred. As
(04:17):
you point out, this is shiftingsome of that regulatory responsibility to municipalities,
and as the person responsible for speakingon behalf of municipalities, it sounds as
though, as you say, thisisn't the best for you for municipal units,
what challenges does that present specifically towhat your perspective is where it is
(04:42):
something that will be up to municipalcouncils to discuss, debate and devise.
So again, when you move forwardwith a coastal protection by law or municipal
planning to definitely address this, thereare different things that you have to consider
in the call to do this isdefinitely one, and the planning capacity within
(05:03):
smaller municipalities to be able to rollout such a plan. So that provided
that there is funding available to municipalitiesto assist them with that is something that
definitely NSFM will be looking at andmaking sure that everyone will have that opportunity
if that's the wish they or thedirection they choose to go in. But
(05:27):
again, one approach would have beensimple. I know that the municipality of
the District of Lunaburg did ask fora moratorium back before we proceed it and
to wait for the Coastal Protection byLaw, but it appears that that's not
going to be the case. Soagain the Coastal Protection by Law will not
(05:51):
be moving forward. So this isthe tool that we have to work with
at this time far and away,not any not all municipalities have the resources
that HRM does. Tell me itwhat kind of pressures you foresee for municipal
units and trying to adopt a planthat does everything the government is promising to
(06:15):
do through this piece of well,through this mechanism instead of the Coastal Protection
Act. Well, again, therewill be navigators put in place my understanding
from the province to help assist municipalitiesto roll this out and residents and again
for residents to be able to lookat this. This is definitely a valuable
tool from that perspective. But NSFMwill be continuing to seek clarification on how
(06:42):
the infrastructure funding will be integrated intothis new plan, because there was talk
of that as well, and makingsure that the Federation is coordinating with the
membership our municipalities to make sure thatthey the financing is coming up along with
us. In your past political experience, you've had opportunity to sit as a
(07:04):
member of cabinet and be in government. What I'm not asking you to try
to read the minds of anyone inthis current administration, but what do you
see as the perhaps reason for thismove as opposed to actually putting in place
legislation that passed the House of Assembly. Well, I will speak on behalf
(07:26):
of the mayors of the municipality ofthe District of Luneburg right now, and
we went through a lot of publicconsultation in relation to we were actually supposed
to roll out first reading tomorrow forour coastal protection by law and right now
we're looking at what this actually meansand the looking at the numbers that they
(07:47):
used to the year twenty one hundred. They're definitely different than the numbers that
we used. So we even atwhat point in time, at what was
at the high water mark, whatwas the measure that they used for storm
surge. So there's a lot ofthings here that need to be answered from
(08:07):
that perspective. But when you're lookingat the overall picture here and there were
people opposed, there were people for, there were people developers who wanted to
develop their land, and there's definitelypeople who want to see the protection in
place. There were people who wantedto see a mixture so that there was
(08:31):
alternate building techniques being allowed to usethat we see in some of our southern
parts to accommodate storm surge and soon. So I don't think it there
is a one glove fits all,but I think that the overall umbrella could
have came from the provincial government togive municipalities the direction that they needed to
move forward with coastal protection. AndI do know you're familiar with the Ecology
(08:56):
Action Center there release that came outjust after the one from the Federation Pipalities
described this as a failure of leadership. Do you feel that's fair? I
do believe that there's some good Thisis a good tool that is put in
place to have that work already carriedout. I wish we would have had
it months ago from the mapping perspective, so that we would all be on
(09:18):
the same page from moving forward andhaving the same data to work with.
I think that this is a valuabletool from that perspective. Again, I
feel that it could have been handleddifferently, and that from a provincial point
of view, I think that theopportunity was there for that. And does
(09:39):
this create any special challenges where we'rejust what seven months away from municipal elections
in Nova Scotia, there's no waythat municipalities will be able to roll this
out in the time for not inthat timeframe. We've been working on this
for over a year to get tofirst reading. Again, there's a lot
of information. This will definitely expediatesome of this for municipalities, But again
(10:05):
it's the dollars associated with rolling thisout, having the staff to be able
to do it, and what typeof role in SFM will have to play
to make sure that municipalities do havethe tools to be able to do this
in a coordinated effort. And youmentioned navigators will be available through at least
your understanding of what the province anownstoday. Did they suggest there would be
(10:26):
money. They did definitely indicate thatthere has been money for inland flood plane
mapping and some other things that isgoing on here. And that's another piece
to this too, the inland floodingpiece that will follow after this rollout.
So there's still work that's being doneon that piece of it. So as
(10:48):
we know of the flood of Julytwenty first, that was not coastal on
our part, It definitely was inlandflooding that caused the damage throughout these areas.
Climate change is real and I don'tthink anyone is denying that fact.
But it's how we move forward andwhat information that we have. And like
(11:09):
I said, I do commend theprovincial government for the resources for this interactive
tool that they have put in place. And I've had the opportunity to look
at it a little bit, butthis is also new that it hasn't given
us the real opportunity to look tosee what it actually what capabilities it actually
has, and how to move forwardfrom here. Did you know this was
(11:31):
coming or was this a surprise?Well, these are always surprises when we
get these, but we were briefedon this, okay, and anything that
I didn't ask that you think isimportant for people to know about this.
The government's announcement and the decision notto put the Coastal Protection Act into action
(11:54):
again, the NSFM will continue itsadvacy efforts and actively seek clearification on how
this infrastructure funding will help with theplan going forward, and we will be
coordinating a meeting with the municipalities andthe department to make sure that they're properly
briefed and have all the information thatthey need and understand what actually has rolled
(12:20):
out here today. And I don'tthink any of us can speak with certainty
exactly what that is yet. TheEcology Action Center, they've been advocating for
the environment in Nova Scotia for morethan fifty years. Their news release on
Monday carried this blunt assessment. TheEAC calls to the Nova Scotia government's coastal
plan a failure of leadership. I'mMarlon McCloud, director of Programs with the
(12:43):
Ecology Action Center. This was describedas a failure of leadership. Tell me
why, well it was? Iwill say it was a shock to hear
this news today, and my firstreaction was really that the Coastal Protection Act,
(13:03):
which had so much potential for theprovincial government to really take leadership and
to really take collective action to helpus as Nova Scotians adapt to climate change,
they've just downloaded all of this responsibilityon individuals and municipalities and so they've
(13:24):
really they are failing to act.What is it that is missing? What
will you perceive to be the failingsof doing it this way as opposed to
the way that all parties agreed toin the legislature outside of actually implementing it.
They all agreed in principle to votefor this legislation, and it was
(13:45):
somewhat bogged down in the actual rules, regulations and implementations. So what do
you feel is the difference. Well, the difference is that when you have
regulations governing how we can treat ourcosts, we first off all have to
abide by them. There's no there'sno picking and choosing, and this is
(14:07):
a problem that impacts everybody. Soif you say, you know what,
it's not safe for us to buildthis building, you know this distance from
the coast, and there were therewere a number of It was it was
to be implemented in a way thatif you were within a zone near the
coast, you had some kind ofassessment. And you know, if you're
(14:28):
on granite, it's different than andyou're on if you're on a softer rock,
if you're way up on a hill, it's different than if you are,
you know, at sea level.And so this allowed. The plan
was that the regulations would allow someflexibility, but that everybody would be subject
to these rules. And essentially thisstops us from building too close to our
coasts, and we have to thinkof our coasts as the buffer between those
(14:52):
of us who live on land andthe ocean and a healthy coastline. It
moves, it naturally moved, andso if you set your buildings back and
you ensure that your coastal ecosystems aresafe, then you have room to absorb
storm surge or you know, havethat space for erosion that is naturally going
(15:15):
to occur, but it is worseningwith with a change in climate. And
now we don't have this. Whatwe have is an education campaign. We
would always have needed an education campaign, but it has no it has no
teeth. When the municipalities are eachexpected to come up or to use this
(15:37):
as a way to guide them throughthis. What do you see as the
challenges as opposed to having one standardor one set of regulations province wide.
Well, if you have one standardor one set of regulations province wide,
a it's a lot easier on everybody. Every there is one set of rules
that everybody's playing by, and ittakes the pressure off of all of the
(16:02):
different planning departments, the town councils. What is going to have to happen
now is that you know, especiallyin these smaller towns where you don't have
a particularly large planning department, isthat they now have all of the responsibility
to support their council in making thesechoices. And you're going to get a
piecemeal approach to something that should havebeen comprehensive and we could have been proud
(16:26):
of and now we're just getting dribsand drabs everywhere. And this is an
emergency, and an emergency you don'twant drips and drabs, you want firm
action. If in fact, thereare as you acknowledge different geographical considerations.
You know, Eastern Shore is differentthan Minus Basin, different than Kingsburg.
(16:48):
Is there a case to be madethe regional approaches might actually be more active,
more responsive, and perhaps more effective. I don't think so, because
because you you couldn't have, forexample, different topographies even within the same
municipalities. Many of our municipalities aregeographically quite large. And again it's that
(17:08):
it's the resources. You know,if we had one common set of standards,
you could you could resource that properly, and you could resource it provincially.
Instead, there's going to be aduplication of efforts across every single municipality.
There's almost you know, there's ahandful of municipalities that are on coastal,
but by and large we are acoastal province and almost every almost every
(17:32):
municipality is going to have to dealwith this. And Mayor Carolyn Boliver getson,
the president of the Federation of NovaScotia Municipalities, point out points out
that we had severe flood damage inlandin Nova Scotia last summer. Does this
plan, in your opinion, inany way take that into consideration. That's
(17:55):
a good question. I have todive into all of the tools, so
I don't know that I can fullyanswer that. However, I do think,
you know, what I had hopedto see was we would have dealt
with this coastal question and then wecould be looking next steps at the at
the flooding question, because there isand as we learned last summer, we
(18:17):
absolutely have issues inland as well.And what I would have envisioned would be
two companion pieces of of of ofregulation. I had asked, and maybe
unfairly the head of the Federation toask what to perhaps explain or give some
(18:37):
thoughts as to why why does MarlonMcLoud think the government shows this path as
opposed to, uh, you know, enacting and putting into action the Coastal
Protection Act. I would love toknow why. I don't know why I
(18:57):
and I don't even know that Ican speculate. What I can say,
however, is that this government,when they were running in the election,
promised that they were a government thatwould listen. And we know they've received
over one thousand letters in support ofthe regulations for this act, and they
(19:23):
haven't listened to the people. Youknow, there's a thousand people they've just
ignored. They've received letters from municipalities, so there's a dozen or more municipalities
that they are not listening to.I don't know who they're listening to,
but it doesn't seem fair to ourcitizens, or to our municipal governments,
(19:48):
or to our future. Final question, Marlin, is there anything else that
you would like to add that Ididn't touch on or discuss. Hmmm.
I know that's an open ended question, but I think I think that's everything.
(20:08):
I think the language is very clear, very very blunt, that this
is a failure in leadership. Didyou want to talk to that at least
before we can conclude about why TheEcology Action Center says that's a failure of
leadership. I think this is afailure of leadership because I expect better from
(20:30):
our government. We have a governmentthat says that they care about climate action,
but when the rubber has hit theroad, so to speak, they've
not done the thing. They havenot done the basic thing, the starting
action, which is to stop buildingin places that are unsafe, and they
(20:52):
have downloaded that to other people.So I'm seeing I'm seeing a government that,
when it came time to act,has failed to act and they have
put us all at risk. Andfinally, here's my conversation with Minister Tim
(21:12):
Holman on Tuesday over this decision.Okay, let's talk about this here,
not proclaiming the Coastal Protection Act.What does this non legislative approach do that
the Act could not? So?What this does It provides a much more
comprehensive, flexible approach to coastal action. The twenty nineteen Coastal Protection Act,
(21:36):
it was very narrow in its focus. It just focused on new builds.
While this action plan that Minister Lauraand I presented to Nova Scotians yesterday,
this is a much broader plan thatis anchored on three principles. The first
principle is supporting informed decision making,and we're going to do that by encouraging
(21:56):
Nova Scotians to access an online mapwhich indicates the hazardous areas along our coasts,
along with access to navigators that willhelp you interpret that information and so
that those navigators will help you determinewhat's best for your property. The second
principle is supporting municipal leadership. I'vebeen saying for many years as Minister,
(22:22):
it's an all hands on deck approachto climate action, and we want to
work with our municipal partners. Theyknow the community's best and we'll work with
them to design an example by lawin order to administer this. And the
third principle Sheldon of this plan isto align resources for coastal protection. So
(22:44):
we announced three million dollars yesterday forongoing floodline mapping, to put up signs,
public works will put up signs inknown hazardous areas, and all of
this is designed to empower Novascotians oncoastal action. You said flexibility, but
why is making action voluntary a betterplan? Yeah, Look, we've put
(23:06):
this coastal Action Plan in the frameworkof our overall climate policies. In twenty
nineteen, when the Coastal Protection Actwas passed, you didn't have legislated climate
change targets. We do now throughthe Environmental Goals and Climate Change Reduction Act.
In twenty nineteen, we didn't havea climate plan. In twenty nineteen,
we didn't have a climate risk assessment. In twenty nineteen, we didn't
(23:30):
have the Sustainable Communities Challenge Fund.So this Coastal Action Plan frames up very
well within our overall comprehensive climate approach. And look, we believe as a
government Nova Scotians, you know,we trust Nova Scotians we believe they can
make informed decisions. Our role isto make sure we get them the appropriate
(23:52):
information so that they can make aninformed decision about their property. What and
I'm not asking you to speak toa hypothetical though, we've recently seen flooding
in which the government was approached tobuy properties, and flood zones and flood
planes. So if it's a voluntarysituation and someone chooses to ignore the warning
signs or ignore the government data orthis information, what protections do taxpayers have?
(24:15):
What protections do communities have? Yeah? Well, the first greatest protection
in anything is to inform yourself.And there is a multitude of information out
there that we will help Nova Scotiansnavigate. What we know yesterday was specifically
related to coastal to coastal flooding,the inland flooding which we witnessed and many
(24:36):
Nova Scotians experienced last spring and summer. Certainly, government is working on procedures
to deal with the inland flooding.For example, at my department, we've
hired a stormwater engineer along with aflooding manager, a flood manager that will
help the municipalities deal with the inlandThe inland flooding with respect. If it's
(25:00):
information, someone choosing to ignore thatinformation or decides to do it anyway,
what protection do neighbors have? What'sin place to prevent that from happening.
Yeah, So what I'd say tothat is, you know, Nova Scotians,
I think are very reasonable. They'llmake an informed choice for their property.
(25:22):
They know it's best for their property. We need to make sure we
get them the information to make aninformed choice. I think what I'd say
to that, Sheldon is, look, I mean, we have very very
strong climate change policies in Nova Scotia, and we encourage residents to make the
best informed choice about building on theirproperty. We have a really diverse coastline,
(25:45):
thirteen thousand kilometers of diverse coastline,so you know, what may work
for coastal action or coastal protection inInverness could be very different, say in
Claire in our gyles. So thebottom line is, you know, we
trust Nova Scotians to make an informedchoice, and we're giving them the tools
to make sure they make an informedchoice. And maybe it's an inappropriate analogy,
(26:08):
but there are all kinds of differentroads, from one hundred series highways
to back lanes, but there's oneMotor Vehicle Act, and some may say
why not have a set of rulesthat apply right across the board. Yeah,
I mean it's an excellent question,and certainly it was one that we
discussed eternally. There was a lotof analysis that went into this. But
at the end, I think forthis to be the most flexible and effective
(26:30):
action plan, we need to respectthe diversity, the geological diversity of Nova
Scotia, so that a municipal unit, when they do their bylaws, it
may be different in Cape Breton,say, versus the south shore or southwest
Nova Scotia. And I mean currentlyright now, we have thirteen point one
percent of Nova Scotia's coastline protected throughour provincial parks, our nature reserves,
(26:55):
our wilderness areas. So there's alot of protection that already exists. And
then also as we advance our twentypercent land and water conservation target, there'll
be much more land and water conservedalong the coast. The Federation of Municipalities
Carolyn Bolivergetz yesterday said they were disappointedin the shift away from what was a
comprehensive and uniform provincial strategy. Sohow is this planned better. How does
(27:18):
it help municipalities. Yeah, socertainly. Look, I have the utmost
respect for the Nova Scotia Federation ofMunicipalities, the utmost respect for our councilors,
wardens and mayors. Minister lore A, Minister John Lure will be working
with our municipal units to design exampleby laws. That's why we didn't come
(27:38):
out yesterday and say, you knowhere it is. We are saying to
our municipal units, let's meet,let's talk. You know, As a
minister, I believe climate action involved. It's shared responsibility and we need,
we need our municipal units to leadthe way on this and the province will
(27:59):
partner with you on this. Soin many respects, this is the strength
of the action plan is that youhave a shared responsibility for coastal action with
property owners, with the province andour municipal units. Annapolis Value is not
a Halifax or Annapolis Royal, isnot Cape Breton Regional Municipality. What supports
are there, what financial help willbe there to make sure that the rules
(28:23):
are appropriate and do what government saysthis will accomplish. Yeah, so definitely.
The third pillar of this plan isto align resources with coastal protection.
So we'll be working with our municipalunits to do extensive floodline mapping. To
the credit of the federal government,they've partnered with us to accomplish that.
(28:44):
That information is absolutely key. Wehave the goal of having the entire province
mapped out by twenty twenty seven interms of knowing where all the hazards are
for flooding. That is going tobe indispensable information. Yes, today we
announced three million dollars you know,to align resources immediately for coastal action.
(29:07):
And I can tell you as Ministerand share Treasury and Policy Board that it's
a it's a priority of mind andthe premiere to to ensure Nova Scotians have
the most up to date information sothat they can secure their properties and live
safely in their communities in the timeof climate change. And with all due
respect again this you know, we'rein a housing corust we're talking about building
(29:29):
properties and ocean up front property isnot necessarily you know, affordable and accessible
to many. But how is thisnot just do what you want and take
your chances and sell the property laterand whoever buys in the future be damned.
Yeah, and I'd say, whatthis is is the Government of Nova
Scotia further empowering individuals and municipalities tomake the right choice. What we're trying
(29:53):
to do here is set people upfor success while respecting their property rights,
along with utilizing a climate lens,a climate change lens. As the province
grows and as you know, Sheldon, I mean, this is unprecedented population
growth that we've had in Nova Scotia. I think you have to go to
pre confederation census data to see asmuch population growth as we've seen in the
(30:18):
last ten years. So look,when the Act was passed in twenty nineteen,
it was in a silo and weneeded to frame coastal action in our
overall climate climate initiatives, and thisaction plan fits very very well within our
overall climate action plans. How doeshow long has the Department been working on
(30:42):
this plan instead of the regulations forthe Act. Yeah, so I can
tell you I was appointed minister atthe end of August twenty twenty one,
and I can tell you since thatpoint in time, we've been analyzing and
looking at the best path forward.A lot of discussion, a lot of
analysis, a lot of consultation hasgone into this. So we as a
(31:03):
government, as a team did notarrive at this willy nilly like we A
lot of thought and work went intoit. And let's want to take this
opportunity to thank my incredible team hereat Environment Climate Change for the great work
that they did in the development ofthese plans. And maybe I misheard you,
but if it was never an intentionto proclaim that is law, is
this? Can this not be interpretedas a broken promise? No? I
(31:26):
mean, certainly we looked at alloptions and that was one of the options.
But at the end of the day, I determined the Act was too
narrow in its focus, and asa result of that, I wanted to
I want to frame this up inour overall action plans, Environmental Goals and
Climate Change Reduction Act, the ClimateRisk Assessment, the Climate Plan, Sustainable
(31:47):
Communities Challenge Fund, and as oftoday, as of yesterday, I mean,
we have a strong climate action plan. NOVA Scotians as of now can
interact with the online tools and getthe information they need about the hazards along
the coast, and if they needhelp interpreting that information about their property,
(32:07):
we've put in place navigators to helpthem get a coastal hazard risk assessment of
their property. And I guess thefinal question is my understanding through other media's
say, is that the consultation isnot going to be released publicly although it
was collected to get a public opinionon this. Who lobbied for this,
(32:28):
so that round of consultation the contractis still open. We distributed in that
consultation to rap cards information cards consultationcards to forty thousand property owners I received
our department received a response of onethousand and seventy. So we utilized the
(32:50):
feedback from that consultation in the developmentof this action plan. And once the
contract is closed on this, we'llhave more to say on that consultation.
So you're saying it was landowners,but developers as well who were saying that
this should be not the Coastal ProtectionAct, but this plan instead. What
I'm saying is there's a diversity,a diversity of opinion on that Act and
(33:15):
a diversity of opinion on coastal actionin general. And I think as a
result of all that diverse opinions thatare out there, you know, some
saying absolutely, you know, proclaimthe Act, others saying this is not
the Avenue to go down because it'stoo narrow in its focus. I believe
the action plan strikes a good balancein taking coastal action but also respecting the
(33:38):
rights of property owners in Nova Scotia. Minister Herman, I appreciate your time,
Thank you, Thank you, Sheldonall the best, take care.
I'm Sheldon McLeod and I hope youfound this informative. Thanks for listening and
this reminder. Salt Wire is yourconnection to news and community. Become a
(34:00):
member to day. This is thinkingout Loud, presented to you by Saltwire
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