Volunteer Fire Services and the Nova Scotia Guard

Nova Scotians are already stepping up to help their neighbours in huge ways. There are 6,000 volunteer firefighters and 1,200 ground search and rescuers across the province. And when Premier Tim Houston recently announced the formation of the Nova Scotia Guard, there were a lot of questions about who would be joining this new team and exactly what they would be doing.  Greg Jones is the President of the Fire Services Association of Nova Scotia. Along with discussing the possible roles for the newly named Guard, Chief Jones discusses recruitment and training challenges facing volunteer groups right now in Nova Scotia. 

Editor's Note — After this piece was produced, an invitation was received by the author for an online meeting with Premier Tim Houston on Sunday, April 14 at 7:15 p.m. to hear from volunteer first responders. 

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Over the years, I've realized thatwhen it comes to government communications, and
I'm talking all levels of government,there may be former journalists who are involved
helping with the messaging, but thisisn't journalism communications. Nova Scotia says on
its website they help Nova Scotians understandwhat their government is doing and why.
But really realistically they only release theinformation they're directed to by the government,

(00:22):
not the parties, but the government. Now, back in the twenty eighth
of March, Premier Tim Houston introducedlegislation that the news release at the time
says, will quote lead, directand support a coordinated response and manage the
immediate and ongoing needs of Nova Scotianswhen a crisis or disaster occurs, and
it goes on to say, theNova Scotia Guard will be a group of

(00:43):
volunteers from across the province who willhelp communities during and after emergencies. The
Nova Scotia Guard will include volunteers withspecialty skills and members of the public to
fill a variety of roles depending onemergency needs. It will harness the many
talents of Nova Scotians and their senseof commune. It went on to say,
you know that's the blue Nooser way, and I get that, but

(01:04):
I also wasn't the only one whowanted to know how's this really going to
work? And who is it thatthey want to have sign up and what
exactly will they be asked to do? And I did ask to speak with
someone about this. In fact,I sent three different emails looking for someone
to speak to me about this,and one spokesperson from Communications Nova Scotia get

(01:25):
back to me to respectfully decline myinvitation, and they also sent me a
statement, and I respectfully am notgoing to just read those words to you.
Those words that were given to meto simply pass along doesn't answer my
question. And we don't really knowthe details of this legislation that won't even
be passed until the fall, andwe don't know exactly who's going to be

(01:49):
consultant on this. But I didwant to find out more from someone who
speaks on behalf of the other sixthousand volunteer firefighters in Nova Scotia. I'm
Sheldon McLoud. This is Thinking outLoud. I am welcome. My name
is Sheldon McLoud. This is Thinkingout Loud. This is my podcast exclusively

(02:09):
presented to you by Saltwire, andI knew right from the moment I saw
this headline and the news release thatI wanted to talk about this natural disaster.
Houston asks Nova Scotians to join anew volunteer reaction force. It was
written by Andrew Rankin with the ChronicleHerald and as he wrote back in what
was this March twenty eighth, thatthe Premier Tim Houston is looking for Nova

(02:31):
Scotis to step up during natural disastersby signing on with a new emergency volunteer
group, the Nova Scotia Guard,and announced that on Thursday, along with
a move to make Emergency Management Officefull government department to be known as the
Department of Emergency Management. And Iimmediately responded to that release and asked for
a comment or at least a conversationwith someone involved, and I did receive

(02:54):
response and it said, Hi,Sheldon, we are respectfully declining your request
for an interview and offering this asa statement in response. And I'm not
going to read this statement because that'snot what I do. I have conversations.
The statement essentially says that we other'in consultations. The legislation that was

(03:15):
introduced in the spring won't be passeduntil the fall, and they want to
meet with the people who provide emergencyservices in Nova Scotia, including fire services,
and of course that's why I wantedto speak with someone with a lot
of knowledge in this front. GregJones is the president of the Nova Scotia
Fire Association or Fire Association of NovaScotia f Sands Fire Services Association of Nova

(03:36):
Scotia. He's also a twenty fouryear veteran of fire services and Amherst.
Has it been twenty four years,Yeah, I believe it or not,
it's been twenty four years. Yeah. Well, congratulations on the career thus
far and for your advocacy work.And I want to ask had you I
reached out to you as well rightaway and you're enjoying a bit of time
of vacation, so thank you forgetting back and allowing us to have this

(03:58):
conversation. Did you know this wascoming? Yeah, I had no idea
this was coming at all. It'skind of intrigued when I heard of the
idea when members of the association reachout to me when I was abroad.
So I'm kind of interested to seewhat government's plan is. We've heard very
few details. I know consultations comingforward, but I look forward having conversation

(04:18):
with government to see exactly what itis. I've been very very much trying
to be respectful but yet somewhat critical. I'd rather be not cynical, but
a little bit skeptical because there area lot of volunteer groups and my initial
gut reaction was, if there's thisbig cohort of people who want to volunteer,
why haven't we been able to tapinto them yet? Because you and

(04:40):
I and others have talked about thechallenges of finding volunteers in this environment.
So just to set the table here, what's it like for what are you
hearing about volunteer services, specifically fireservice and recruitment across Nova Scotia right now?
You know, for recruitment for thefire service right across there not only

(05:00):
our problems, but across the countryand globally there's been a downturn. The
last little bit I can tell youthere's been a lot of work done by
departments here in our province to boostset up and bring new members in,
which is really greatly appreciated. Onevalue we have is that volunteerism all Nova
Scotia's try their best to do that. One thing I believe possibly would be

(05:21):
happening with this guard is that bringfolks in that would not be related to
the fire services volunteers, but simplypeople that would come and use a chainsaw
or pick things up. But reallyI really don't know yet, Sheldon.
I'm really waiting to see what willcome out. But it's really it's on
us as a fire services to continueto boost to get our volunteers. And

(05:42):
I see that right across the countryatop the colleagues in Alberta a few weeks
ago, and they're struggling as wellfor volunteers. We're all trying to find
ways to boost our staffing. Whenthere is a fire and there is a
some kind of incident or of motorvehicle collision, there's a saying there are
the people who are there who aretrained to do a job, and then
there's everybody else. And sometimes it'sa problem having people around who aren't trained.

(06:08):
And I'm not saying that that's thecase here, but there has to
be a certain level of understanding ofwhat a dangerous situation looks like. And
the unanswered questions are okay, who'sensured. What workers compensation coverage might they
have if their employer is going toallow It was said just recently that the
Nova Scotia government sent out a noteto all of its employees and said if

(06:30):
you want to sign up, ifyou go to two on one and sign
up, the Nova Scotia government willcontinue to pay you while you're volunteering and
support you in that way. Ican't say one hundred percent that that happens
in every single business in the provinceright now. If that is the case,
maybe this is a signal for thegovernment to let other businesses know that
somehow there's some availability or ability forthem to support volunteers when they're helping out

(06:55):
in that way. Does that makeany sense to you, No, it
mixed complete sense. When you thinkof the wildfires we had last year in
the spring of early summer, thatwas a prime example. A lot of
workplace in our problems let their employeesgo to be involved in the wildfire and
support that. A lot of employersdid a lot of work. Unfortunately,
they weren't all recognized. Your employeesrecognized them for letting them go. But

(07:16):
that's one thing that should be lookedat as well as part of us know
what Scosta guard and I'm kind ofintrigued to find her exactly what the meaning
is and what's going to be Thatmay be part of it, but who
knows. And that's again all thettlemoving pieces. And fundamentally, you're asked
at times to come sit before legislativecommittees to give your input, your expertise.

(07:38):
And when it comes to issues likeprotecting volunteers, is that something that
do you suspect at some point you'regoing to be asked to the table.
You know, it's something that wewere already and prepared to talk about any
given time. We have been askedto have those conversations from time to time,
and I do make a point tobring up the aspect of volunteers and
what it means in our province.We have a really rich volunteer component here

(08:01):
around volunteer fire funding in our province. Not all problemss have that, So
it's one of those unique things thatwe need to make sure continues on and
we find way to maintain that.And that's one of my goals as well
as president, to continue that.When it comes to the training issues,
someone else quite plugged in said whatabout the Vehicle Insurance Levy Fund and Fire

(08:26):
Services Association of VA Scotia has beenworking with that fund to help through the
Nova Scotia Fire School to provide training. But something that has never happened before
happened this year. That meant thatwell, the funds ran out. That
there was is that you know aproblem that you're so successful in getting people
to take training that you ran outof money. Yeah, so the program

(08:48):
only has a define amount of moneyin it and we only have so much
money to put towards that program.The program itself of the round training individuals
to support motor vehicle in since onour highways and street roads across their province.
The important part with that fund islast year we had a tremendous amount
of training from all of our serviceproviders that used up all that fund.

(09:11):
And you know there's a great useof that fund by all our volunteers across
the province. The unfortunate part isis we ran out of fund. So
association has done some work lost alittle bit reviewing that. Also reviewing we'd
set submitted a requests for additional fundsfrom that as well. But one thing,
and we'll say is the funds thatgo into that come from each individual

(09:33):
motor vehicle insurance policy in our provincethat supports that, and it is a
finite number that we had to workwith, and unfortunately that's the number we
have the work and support the particulartraining around that. Yeah, no one
wants to pay more, but let'sput this in perspective. It's fifty cents
per insurance claim or insurance policy,So that's fifty cents per person. Anyone

(09:56):
who's insured by a company in NovaScotia pays fifty towards It's fun. That's
that's not a lot of money,considering everybody pays about that a month just
for the nine one one service that'sattached to your cell phone. Now that's
a valid point. Since twenty twelve, we've been managing this fund and this
is the first time we've actually seena major impact like this towards a fund

(10:16):
that put us in a position wherewe wouldn't have funds to meet all the
current need for this year. Soit is something that we're looking at.
It's something that I've had wrote lettersand conversations on, so I will continue
to see where that goes. Andagain, fifty cents. Isn't a lot
of dollar. Well, yeah,that's one hundred percent jump, But really
that's a dollar. That's a dollarper years. You're not talking every month,

(10:39):
are you, No, that's peryear. That's what when you renew
your insurance. One dollar goes tohelp support or train firefighters. There was
something else that came up not longago, and in response to last year's
wildfire season. There was a meetingthat happened between the Department of Natural Resources
and Renewables and it was an emergencyfirefund reserve to bring in people to train

(11:01):
them to a standard or to alevel for them to be able to help
out in the event of another seriouswildfire season. Can you talk a little
bit about how DNRR approached f Sandsabout this, So the funding component,
I don't know a whole lot ofdetail on that. It's actually funding that
came from the federal government a fewyears ago. Mandy letter from the Prime

(11:22):
Minister. Actually, what our conversationwe've had with dnr R has been around
has been around the firefighter reserve tosupport them for wildfires. Last year during
the major wildfire event. That wassomething that was very quickly put in place.
The purpose at that time was tonot only augment dnr R under seeing

(11:43):
and get personnel there, but alsonot to take numerous personnel from one department
and leave that area vacant. Sothis gave the ability to reach out across
the province, the different municipalities,the different organizations and pool folks without causing
a major impact. That's the conversationwe've had with the NRR and we had
a last year and again this yearas well. Does it sound like there's

(12:05):
a bit of overlap between an emergencyfirefighter reserve and this Nova Scotia Guard To
be very on Sheldon, I haveno idea. So until we had the
conversation with the Premier and government andunderstand that the conversation aspect of exactly what
the plan is, it really can'tcomment on that. I guess I'm just
trying to, you know, findmy way through this conversation, which includes,

(12:28):
you know, asking for other peopleto step up. And there are
teams, there are people, thereare organizations Red Cross provide support and help.
You know, a lot of volunteergroups search and rescue, as we've
heard through the media rately recently,who are not happy because they've had pretty
much funding that's been frozen for morethan a decade, so there's a lot

(12:48):
of concern there. Can you seewhy people are a little bit perhaps puzzled
by this surprise announcement about a brandnew volunteer effort. I can understand why
some folk are puzzled. One thingI will say, though, I will
give the benefit currently the government tofind exactly what it is, and then
from there from our organization will wearour conversation with government on that. But

(13:13):
until I know that, it's reallyhard to know exactly without concrete details,
exactly what it is. I sensepeople are worried that another layer of administration
means people are being paid to overseevolunteers and somehow for people who give up
hours, weeks, months to dedicateto helping out in their community, to
see that it may be complicated orin some ways funded. You know that

(13:37):
money will be taken to give toanother layer of administration when there's a real
desperate need for not just equipment butfor personnel and for training, that it
might not just sit well with people. Yeah, and as you know yourself,
Sheldon, members of the fire serverswant to do whatever they can and
the moments knows the help, andI look forward to the conversation on exactly

(14:01):
what this Nova Scosta guard is andexactly how to move forward, not only
for the fire servers but all theNova Scotia is when we truly need it.
Yeah, and just so we're clear, you have not yet had the
invitation extended to you or the organizationthat you represent. Just this afternoon,
actually get an invitation stand it tome from the province and I'm going to
respond to that later today and seeexactly what's going to happen. Was that

(14:24):
standing committee specific to Nova Scotia Guardor is this about something else? No,
something else around the consultation aspect ofit. Okay, well, I
certainly hope that you know that youand others around the table are able to
communicate what it is that I'm hearingfrom some of the people who do volunteer,
which is that you know, weneed some more help. And I
think that's the underlying theme here.And to give the Premier credit, yes,

(14:48):
it is the bluenoser way for peopleto pitch in and do what they
can to help their neighbors. Butat what scale and how is this going
to work? I think we're allinterested in finding that out ourselves. Yeah,
me as well, truly, justwant to know exactly how it's going
to work and what the vision ofit is, and then we'll see what
the impact will be potentially on thefire service. And you're just a couple
of weeks away from the annual conference, isn't it coming up to see you

(15:09):
in Rural. Yeah, Our annualconference will be coming up April twenty sixth,
twenty seventh, and twenty eighth inTroral. It's kind of a great
lineup and a great group of individualsthat will be there presenting and folks that
will be coming from the fire serviceto have great conversations and network. So
look forward to seeing everybody there aswell. All right, Chief, thank
you so much for this. Ireally appreciate your time. Thank you very

(15:31):
much. Greg Jones. He isthe president of the Fire Services Association of
Nova Scotia.