Earth vs Soup Ep 173 - The Creeping Flesh (1973) - ThisWeekInGeek

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I didn't electoral tear it. Themind barbles. You see, you see
your stupid mids, stupid stupid SantaClaus. Long enough, we will bring
him to Mars. I've been afraida lot of times in my life,
but I didn't know the real meaningof fear until until I kissed back me.
One thing will be clear, It'snot for man to interfere in the
ways. You've got good evening,everybody, and welcome to Earth Versus Soup,

(00:46):
Episode one, seventy three. I'mAaron Pellier and I'm Darlene. We
watched The Creeping Flesh from nineteen seventythree today. Uh, it's an interesting
movie. It's an interesting movie.I'm not We're both kind of waffling about
it in some ways, Darling,Do you have any first things to say

(01:10):
about it before I kind of startgoing into who is in this? Who
is why? This movie kind ofstuck out to me to pick well,
it's British, it's ninety four minutes. It actually feels like it was done
in the fifties and sixties instead ofthe seventies. It feels like a hammer

(01:32):
horror, but it isn't. Andthe reason why it feels like a hammer
horror is because the sets are goodand the caliber of actors are good.
In fact, it uses two ofthe actors that tended to be in hammer
horror films, being the two leadsChristopher Lee and Peter Cushing. It takes
place in Victorian age, like eighteenninety something. Yeah. Yeah, and

(01:57):
I like that they did paintings inthe credits. Uh. Yes, yes,
So we are going to gripe aboutthis film, but I'm also going
to praise it where where it isdue, as as I tend to do
in these reviews. There it's avery rare instance where a movie has no

(02:20):
complaints For me. There has beena couple where I was just like,
yeah, I can't really think ofanything wrong. This does have some things
wrong, or at least things thatbothered me about it. But and bothered
you, right, darling. Yes, most of it's dealing with the plot
though, Yeah, and how thatactually it it began and ended? Yes,

(02:45):
well it how it began to mebasically spoils the entire movie basically,
And I can I can talk aboutthat really quick because we should just go
into the plot. Like I said, this is Christopher Lee, Peter Kush.
They play brothers Emmanuel. Peter Cushingplays Emmanuel and Christopher Lee plays James.

(03:06):
And Emanuel has a daughter named Penelopeplayed by Lorna Heilbron. They're all
very good at their job at thiswell, the person that plays Penelope also
ends up playing her mother, doessan Beck? Memory? Does she?

(03:29):
I guess? So maybe I don'tknow it. I don't think I don't
think so. No, it's acompletely different person, Darlene it yeah,
yeah, yeah, Jenny Ruquerre,Wow, I thought it was the same
person. No, no, Sothe the movie starts actually with a man
painting a very sinister looking painting nextto a table of bones. Okay,

(03:53):
now, uh, the painting's verygood. It's actually very in. It's
kind of like, uh, EronymousBosh meets Van Go meets. I don't
know, it's it's weird meets.It looks like something that would be done
in the nineteen nineties. I don'tknow. It's very good. It's very

(04:16):
good. Like if they use thatas the movie poster, it would have
drawn people in for sure, ratherthan the movie poster that it has,
which is kind of grim and allthat. But anyway, he's painting this
painting next to a table of bonesas the credits roll, and it turns
out that it's Peter Cushing is aManuel Hildern and he's talking about evil being

(04:41):
a disease and he's isolated, andhe shows a man what it looks like
through a microscope, and he's inthis kind of white void room and the
man that he's talking to is ina white lab coat. Okay, where
where Emmanuel is not. He's kindof in his Victorian style men's suit,

(05:06):
and he starts telling his story.But I kind of thought immediately, oh,
okay, he's either dead and he'skind of talking to somebody in the
spirit world because of this kind ofwhite void, or he's inn the same
asylum well or in his dream.Yeah, but which did it turn out?

(05:30):
To me? It was like,either he's dead or he's in an
asylum. Well it he's in anasylum. Like so, I thought that
the beginning of the movie pretty muchruined it. How Like they could have
completely taken out that intro with himtalking to the scientist and started where the
movie actually, you know, properlystarts in the flash, like him telling

(05:51):
the story. You could have hadit start right there without having this like
over over dialogue, you know,the narration of it, of why he's
he has found this information. It'sit's not very long, but it it
ruins the movie. And it basicallywastes about two minutes a time, and

(06:13):
that seems fairly petty, but it'sthis first scene sets the stage for the
movie being a you kind of knowwhat happens if you have guessed correctly,
so it ruins some of the horrorthat is in it. I hope that

(06:35):
makes sense what I'm saying right now. Do you agree with me, Darlene,
speak up? You know, Idon't think it ruined for me.
It just and the end made mego hmm, and then it made me
question at the end of everything.Yes, And the one thing that I

(07:02):
didn't like about this movie is itfelt like there was two plots going.
Well, we haven't even really talkedabout plots yet. Yeah, but it
kind of like meshes but pulls apart. Yes, it's it's strange. So
we're in. Emmanuel basically starts narratingthat he has just recently been to Papa

(07:27):
New Guinea and his return home withthe remains of an extinct extinct hominid.
Okay, so a bipedal humanoid,right that might be related to humans clearly
is not clearly is shows a skullof a nathanderol did I know? Or

(07:47):
what was it? He shows askull skull of an extinct hominid of some
sort Neanderthal, and then he putsit beside the skeleton. So this skull
is clearly not humanoid. It's notprimate. It is something weird. Yes,

(08:09):
it has two eyes and nose anda mouth. It's alien. It's
an alien, but the rest ofits body is very human. It's basically
a human skeleton with really large handsand a very alien head. If the
body was somebody that was actually likeseven or eight foot tall, yeah,

(08:30):
yeah. But the point is ishe's extremely excited that he found this,
and his daughter Penelope greets him,and then his assistant is named water Low,
not Waterloo water Low again strange,and he's also there and they take
this. They take the skeleton intohis lab and it's a combination of chemistry

(08:56):
like your typical BS chemist in ascience fiction film, which means colored fluids
and beakers that people tend to putin any scene that is this is a
science area. People are doing science, let's just fill some beakers with colored
liquid. And it pisses me offwhen they do it when it has nothing

(09:18):
to do with the science now hereI can, I can sort of see
it, right, but I amI'm going to call out one one use
of colored liquid and beakers in anentirely inappropriate situation. And it was Picard
Season one where they go into theDaystrom Institute in a shut down research facility

(09:39):
for AI and the desk just hasbeakers and test tubes filled with colored liquid
doing nothing. That's sitting in anabandoned lab, Like, god, damn
it, just why. But anyway, it's like this weird combination of chemistry
and biology. There's also like amonkey that's in a cage, yes,
but it does have a there's apurpose to yeah, so uh. Penelope

(10:03):
tends to seems to already understand thather father gets sucked into his research.
Emanuel ends up unpacking this skeleton withthe huge He is upset because he won't
come to dinner. Yeah, andhe finally gets torn away from his find
to go have breakfast with his daughter. While he was away, Penelope has
had to let go two servants becausethey don't have enough money that her father's

(10:28):
just kind of is kind of destitute. Is not a well regarded scientist or
gentleman, but he does have thisreally large house and his brother is actually
a well regarded doctor as well,So there's money in the family, let's
put it that way. But Penelope'slike pretty upset that she's had to let

(10:48):
go two people from the household.He ends up having a letter that's been
delivered that says his wife has justpassed away, and I thought, okay,
now this is interesting. He looksreally shocked, and uh, it's
actually that he has had his wife. And I'm gonna try to cover a

(11:09):
whole bunch of scenes here that arescattered throughout the film. He put his
wife in an insane asylum for reasonsthat I'm not really sure what it is
about. She was a singer,dancer, prostitute, prostitute and they got

(11:31):
married and had a child. Thequestion is is she really his another part,
Well, that's that's that's also agood question. But the point is
is that she she ended up havingaffairs after the marriage too. Well,
I have to assume that, eventhough it's not very clear, because these
affairs, she ends up slicing upa guy, and she ends up getting

(11:56):
taken to this insane asylum because she'sbeen a naughty girl. And I'm not
sure if how how am I gonnaput this? I'm not sure if that
she was thrown into the insane asylumbecause she was a loose woman who had

(12:16):
an affair and her husband wanted herput away, or if she truly was
crazy. See I I don't know, because she actually was trapping men to
was she? I got the thingof See, that's the whole thing is
this is this whole movie even justa lucid thing, a lucid dream of

(12:41):
some sort. Yeah, well,it's unreliable narrator. Everything about this movie
is an unreliable narrator because remember it'sbeing told by Peter Cushing's characters. You
know, his character Emmanuel from thefrom an Insane Asylum with him locked away
because he actually is crazy. Butit's also told by the person that's actually

(13:07):
his brother was supposed to be hisbrother. No, but at the end
of it is kind of because there'sa part where one of the and calls
him half brother, but is hea half brother? Like that was never
said in the rest of the movie. There's so many questions about like little

(13:28):
points in this movie. I don'tknow see watching this movie or already we're
like in the first couple scenes,we're maybe fifteen minutes into it, and
we already have a completely different viewpointon what's happening in this movie. I
thought that maybe she had been sentaway because she was just a loose woman
and wasn't happy in her marriage andwas sleeping around. I really thought it

(13:52):
was because she actually went nuts onone of her lovers. Well, I
think, yes, she went nutson one of her lovers, and that's
what really got her put away.But in the end, if she just
went nuts on some guy that waslike molesting her, you know, inappropriately
or whatever, and she defended herself, you would think that it wouldn't be

(14:13):
like, I'm going to commit her. And he's afraid that Penelope will go
that way. Yeah, he's afraid. The panel doesn't even tell he's he's
told his daughter that his mother hermother was already dead long time ago.
Yeah. That, and he doesn'tlet her into his wife's old room because

(14:37):
I guess they didn't even sleep inthe same room together. She had her
own room that is filled with oldclothes that are well has a Did it
even have a bed in it?Yeah? Sure did, because I remember
the piano, I remember the clothes, the feathered BoA's and the and the

(15:01):
lot had some stuff that he waskeeping perfumes, makeup. There's posters of
her, like from her dancing days, where we're shown like her dancing in
a cabaret in a very suggestive way, at least for the time. Let's
put it that way. Like todaythat's like, Okay, she's just dancing.

(15:22):
She Penelope wears her outfit. Laterthat's a nice dress, that's a
street walkers. Yeah, but forthe time, it would be would have
been like, oh she is asshe's a lady of the night. But
today that would be like formal wear. Yes, but I know, but

(15:46):
I'm just trying to get people inlike the idea of when we're talking about,
oh she's you know, a loosewoman or whatever that when you watch
this, if you don't realize thatthis is trying to be like the eighteen
nineties, that you would think we'recrazy talking about it as like oh my
god, she's in a scandalous dressbecause it's low cut. Well, no,

(16:07):
we're not. We're not proved laceand it looks like something that was
supposed to be. We're like anhour away from that scene. We're our
at least. But anyway, theperson who's in charge of the asylum is
Immanuel's brother James, who is saidas a brother repeatedly through the film,

(16:30):
up until the last scene where hesays, no, he's he claims to
be my half brother. But allcrazy people seem to seem to latch onto
authority figures like that, and hethinks that the lady next door is his
daughter. Yeah, And it's like, is this all unreliable narrator then,

(16:51):
or is this a guy that's tryingto because in that time, having relatives
that are in silent Yeah, it'snot something you would ever want to admit
to, right right, So,I mean, it's it's possible that Christopher
Lee's character here is covering it allup. I know we're kind of talking
out of sequence with this movie,but again, it's it's a movie that

(17:17):
you can get two very distinct viewpointson depending on how you're watching. Because
we didn't really talk about the plotpoints of this movie while we were watching
it. We were just kind oftaking notes and going okay, all right,
And I already clearly think that PeterCushing, Peter Cushing's character was a
son of a bitch and isn't thehero, that everyone's kind of the victim,

(17:40):
and that it sort of is ChristopherLee. That might be the gray
hat rather than a white hat,because he's not that good either, but
I don't think there's any white hatsin mess. I really think that he
did take yeah, because he didsteal the notes and all, yes,

(18:02):
yes, that could be the dream. So yep, we're not even close
to this, yeah, him stealingthe notes. But basically we learned that
Christopher Lee's character, James, isa son of a bitch as well running
this asylum because he's doing crazy electroshocktherapy experiments on patients, and he's also

(18:25):
doing like mk ultra stuff on lizardsor chickens later on, with like flashing
lights and last like mind altering drugsbecause there isn't Dallas d around yet.
But he did say that you couldn'tdo this, you can't do this to
a human honor, oh, becauseit's unethical. But then he makes a

(18:47):
snide remark on later on that howhe doesn't mind going around ethics when it's
somebody else that does the dirty deed, and then he'll just take advantage of
it. No. He he makesa comment that he doesn't consider the people
that are underneath him as humans.Yes, son of a bitch, like

(19:08):
you know, this movie makes mefeel a little greasy afterwards. Let's put
it that way. This none ofthese characters are good characters. Well,
I mean, you could maybe makethe argument that Emmanuel is you know,
Peter Cushing's Emmanuel is a no,is not a victim, but well,
I mean is a victim, butI don't. He's also not a good

(19:30):
person, because you don't leave yourdaughter for ten years. No. Yeah,
okay, so let's get back tothe plot. So as Peter Cushing
leaves, he walks past this electroshock therapy experiment and we learned that a
guy named Lenny has escaped and thealarm is raised and you'd think, all
right, well, now this wholeplot is going to result, you know,
revolve around money, but it doesn'treally. He does come up,

(19:52):
though, he does come out,and believe it or not, I sort
of recognize the actor. I sortof do. The actor's name is Kenneth
Warren, And the only reason Isort of recognize him is that he's in
tons of bit parts in British productionsfrom the nineteen fifties through the eighties,
and in tons of them. Soif there is a hammer horror that we

(20:17):
have watched or a general British sciencefiction, he pops up in it in
some way almost as the same character. Yeah, just kind of a background
character, a background character that's menacingeither a thug or a in this case,
it's an insane guy that sort yeah, he is kind of crazy.

(20:37):
Okay, So we have Peter Cushingcoming home to see his daughter reading a
romance novel and I thought, okay, big deal. You know, Jane
Austen's been around for you know,seventy eighty years at this point, that
this shouldn't be scandalous. And PeterCushing just lays into her, fully lays
into her because it's something her motherwould have done. That her mother read

(21:07):
romance novels and had flights of fancy. And again this leads me to believe
this is one of those things thatled me to believe that Peter Kushian's character
just didn't approve of what his wifedid in her life or what her hobbies
were, not that she was aloose woman. To remember, it was
him saying, the unreliable narrator sayingthat his wife was a loose woman who

(21:32):
did all these awful things and sheneeded to be committed. But his actions
outside of that, describing, oh, a romance novel. That's terrible.
You can't be doing that, andhe really loses his mind about it.
So here's the dichotomy that I got. Dichotomy, dilemma, dilemma that I
got. He's been gone to NewGuinea. Yeah, Papa New Guinea for

(21:56):
a while. This is before plane, So that's a year, six months
travel. Maybe you'd say yeah,yes, one way, one way.
So you're talking about years and maybehis research being another year. So he's
been gone two years. His daughtershould be by this time. Actually,

(22:19):
if you've got this kind of ifyou're in this kind of society, you
should have been pushing your daughter toget married. She's twenty five. The
actress is twenty five, and Iwas taking her as being about twenty five.
So you wasted two to three yearsof her life that she should have

(22:40):
been on mart But she was onShe was the head of the household,
effectively, Yes, but she wasstaying because she thought her dad needed her.
And what does he do to herin her lays into her and then
ignores her for so he's not he'swere a shit ass father. Oh no,

(23:03):
yeah, yes, he is ashould ask father. So he lectures
her and leaves the keys behind forthe bookcase because he locks the bookcases with
romance novels. Again, Darlene,what the f who locks bookcases with romance
novels, especially romance novels at thattime? This is these aren't smut?

(23:26):
This is well, there is smut, but because smut but that wasn't Fanny
Hill. No, but I didthere there is some there is smut,
but this wasn't. This was likean actual book who locks bookcases so his

(23:47):
daughter won't read anything in there?Dear, see this this makes me seriously
consider the fact that Peter Christian's characterpeople that are controlling. Yeah, he
and he could not control his wifeso committed her to an asylum because he
could get away with that. Asa man from a somewhat wealthy family or

(24:11):
at least well regarded family, thatscandal shall not touch them. Society doesn't
want to have their house is huge. So yeah, that's my point.
Like this is this is not atail where Emmanuel is a victim. In
this where he might be a victim, but he also might deserve to have

(24:32):
some sort of we have at leasta maid because they had the maid watching
her. Yes, and there wastwo other house houseworkers, let's put that,
and then they had to leave twoof them out. So he goes
into his lab and washes the bones, and the water seems to soak into
the bones, and then flesh startsto form on the bones after the water

(24:53):
soaks in. This one is ifthis is something that is from Earth Earth.
Excuse me, but anything is water. You got something that is a
catalyst is the water? There's aproblem. So because Earth is what,

(25:15):
yeah, lots of water. Buthe we learn that these bones are associated
with an ancient tale of evil fromPapa New Guinea. Okay, so that
means these bones aren't they have notbeen sealed in rock for a billion years,

(25:36):
right, This has been within livingmemory, living ish memory maybe a
couple thousand years, meaning that thesebones have been exposed to water. Often.
Doesn't it rain a lot in PapaNew Guinea? Yeah? It rains
a lot in Papua New Guinea.Was it in a cave, It shouldn't

(25:56):
matter. Cave's flood isn't on thetop of a mountain, Ninpapa New Guinea
snow and then snow will melt whensun hits it, depending like oh my
god. So anyway, this isThis is a problem that we again encounter
in in many movies, including Signswith mel Gibson, where if you're an

(26:17):
alien species invading a planet that ismostly covered in water, one hopes that
the aliens aren't melting from water becauselike acid, because you don't invade planets
like that, especially without spacesuits orprotective gear. Like anyway, uh,

(26:37):
I know, yeah, this isbut that was my thought on this one,
is like he goes to put wateron it, and I'm just and
reads this whole passage about evil evilwith the drops of tears from the sky
or something like that, and I'mlike, oh, you did you say
the guinea The flesh basically grows afinger like a finger around the bone,

(27:03):
finger bone. He cuts it off. He cuts it off to stop it
from So again, this is supposedlya dead skelet, you know, skeleton
that's been dead. It's all wiredtogether, Yes it is, because they
pick it up. All the bonesstay together at all times. But he
cuts off the finger. That's theother two like thing. I said,

(27:23):
what what what was the last moviethat I criticized that that all the all
the uh the teenage one what teenagersfrom outers from outer space. That's like
one of the faults of that movieis just the bones always hold together,
so I don't know, he cutsthe bones apart, so like at least

(27:45):
that bone off so it doesn't theflesh doesn't continue to spread. We go
back to the asylum to see Jamesdoing Frankenstein chit and that's like him with
like body parts hooked up to electrodes. Is this Peter Cushing or that's that
that that's Christopher Lee. Christopher Lee, Okay, thank you. He has
body parts hooked up to electrodes andall that patients. Yeah, one of

(28:10):
the patients breaks out of his doorwhile no one notices, and he jumps
out, grabs James and takes thekeys from him and he's uh, He's
like, no, I'm just gonnaleave now, you know, I I
have best you and James shouts uh, shouts at the guy. He's like,
you know, you better turn aroundgo back into your room, and
he pulls out the freaking gun andthe guy's like, you're not gonna shoot
me, and Christopherlely just guns theguy down right there and goes, you

(28:32):
should have gone back into your room. Idiot. He doesn't say idiot,
no, but he just kind oflike shrugs, big deal, a guy
died. I don't care. It'smore more organs for my testing my Frankenstein
ship back in the lab. Sohe's doing like mk ultra shit. He's
doing uh, he's doing Frankenstein shit. He's he's he is a very poor

(28:53):
scientist, doctor bankman. So wego back to the Emmanuel's house and the
assistant is about to wash the bones, but if Manuel like knocks the water
away from this guy and starts screamingat him like, you don't wash these
bones, you don't do it,And we end up having Penelope getting a

(29:18):
hold of the keys again to exploremore locked places of the house because he
wanted some books that were out ofthat out of the romance novel shelf.
It wasn't it was medical books.You'd think if these romance novels were so
destructive. He wouldn't keep them likethat. He's obviously so afraid of them.
He would have taken in and destroyedthe stuff that was in the bedroom.

(29:45):
Yeah, but it's so dangerous.Or lock it in a because it's
not like he goes in there ever, Or lock it in the in a
attic in a trunk. Yeah,but it's not like he goes into that
room ember because he says he hasn'tbeen in there since his wife got put
in it. But it's clean,Yeah, I know. Anyway, So

(30:07):
we end up having Peter Cushing dissectingthe finger and it bleeds and he takes
like samples of the blood and itlooks like they have like dozens of long
flagella these cells, and he goes, oh my god, it's the cause
of all evil and weird blood cellsattack normal human ones and basically eat them.

(30:27):
And Okay, that's interesting, andhe says, oh my god,
I'm the most brilliant, brilliant doctorof all time. I can learn how
to inoculate people against evil. Andthis is where I paused the movie and
I went, oh, oh god, this is where I walked out of

(30:47):
the movie. You must have pausedit after I walked out. Yeah I
did, because I was like,okay, darling, you have to understand
this. I'm like, hey,you're jumping to a conclusion based on a
myth that this is an evil skin. You're the one that's associating this myth
with this skeleton, not science.Not science. You're assuming that, You're
assuming that evil is a quantitative thingrather than a moral, ethical objective,

(31:15):
a subjective thing rather than an objectivetruth. You're a very poor scientist,
mister, doctor Vankman. I mean, and then I am just you don't
even know what kinds of cells theseare. They look like bacteria, okay,
look like they look like like bigblack rounds with flagella all over them.

(31:40):
And he just decides that he's goingto make an inoculation against these out
of infecting somebody's blood like his ownblood, and then getting the serum out
of it. And he thinks he'sa genius. He at one point he
injects the monkey. See ah,yeah he does. I'm gonna stop here

(32:07):
for a second again. This iswhat's bothering me, because we didn't really
talk about this film when we werewatching it, or right after we were
watching it. Doctor Jekyll and misterHyde is a tale about letting your inhibitions
and being immoral while those inhibitions arelet loose, and then having Doctor Jekyl

(32:31):
be the restrained individual that is moral, is ethical, but is restrained.
Right, he's the good he's thegood man. Mister Hyde is quote unquote
evil because he's unrestrained. He doesn'tcare about others, he doesn't get Yeah,
that is a story about an inoculationof swords that allows well, it's

(32:59):
more like an inoculation that slowly destroysthe man, because it's basically an inoculation
against ethicalness or moralistic behavior. Okay, this here is and it comes out
of like I am experimenting with likethe human mind. Okay, this is
I'm experimenting with unknown biology, withhuman biology to produce a moralistic or ethical

(33:29):
effect. What I'm trying to sayis, I think any Doctor Jekyl and
mister Hyde story generally tries to dothis part of the story far better.
This kind of idea of science andmoralistic ideas meshing together at some point,
you know, scientific ethics et cetera, et cetera. The scientific ethics would

(33:52):
truly ever even come up in thismovie, though not really. They pay
They may pay lip service to it, but then they clearly don't give a
crap about it. Outside of it. They're just people that don't. They'll
spout it, I know, Ikeep stopping, stopping, they will spout
it, but they're not. They'relike, I don't care. They're like

(34:12):
the what are those uh uh atthose like Tammy Baker in that Oh,
I don't practice what I preach becauseI'm not the kind of person I preach
to. As Bob Dobbs would oncesay, what was his name? Tammy
Baker and Tammy fay Baker and yeah, anyway, Yeah, so let's get
back to the plot. Penelope endsup getting into her mother's room and sees

(34:37):
her prostitutes clothes everywhere and says,boy, this is exactly what I want
out of life. I want tobe a hooker. So that's effectively what
this what happens. Uh. Shefinds a newspaper clipping that says her mother
was committed to an asylum and Manuelleave the letter in the letter of her

(34:57):
death. Yeah, and the letterof her death, but that that was
like from earlier, like it wasthe same that was given to Yeah,
So Emmanuel ends up leaving his laband here's his daughter playing his wife's piano,
and Penelope confronts him about his liesand how he only and and he
says he only loved he only lovedher and and not his daughter, that

(35:21):
all this history has been kept fromPenelope, and he has never really cared
about her. You know what,She's right, She's right. Peter Cushy's
character is a bad father, likelya very bad husband, likely a very
bad brother. Mind you, hisbrother is nothing to to write home about

(35:44):
either. But we end up havinga flashback to when Emmanuel and his future
wife meet and she is a cocabaretanswer. This is where we get all
the weird flashbacks that are actually kindof confusing. She clearly sleeps around with
many men for money, for drinks, for drugs, for attention, and

(36:10):
seemingly really likes it. Stab somepeople, stab some people because basically she
one guy gets rough with her andshe stabs them fair enough. You know,
if you're if you're with a sexworker, you treat them with respect,

(36:30):
right They're they're providing you a service. You don't get to slap them
around without consent. And she obviouslydid not concede it sent. I'm not
saying that this is something that theywould have thought about in the Victorian age,
but the point is that she hadevery right to defend herself, okay,
and they just end up carting heroff to the asylum. She screams

(36:52):
for help In em Manuel, Emmanuelbasically starts having a mental breakdown remembering her
screams for help. So it's againI think he feels guilty about committing her,
that this wasn't about really her violentinehaply he might have had the uh

(37:17):
the you either commit her or shegoes to jail. She goes to prison.
Oh and if I can put herin my brother's asylum, maybe that's
less. But then why would yoube like, No, she's actually completely
sane. I have to make surethat my brother understands that. And I'm
going to take my daughter to seeher all the time so she doesn't feel

(37:38):
like she's been left alone, whereashere in this plot she is she was
left completely alone, disavowed. Effectively, her Emmanuel's brother James basically got to
toy with her with MK ultra shitand her daughter thought she was dead.

(38:00):
Wow. I don't know why Ikeep like, I keep kind of dwelling
on that, darling, and Iapologize because it bothers me. It bothers
me that our hero that we're supposedto feel sympathy for through this has so
many unsympathetic actions, or at leastactions that can be taken in such a
way as to be The only personI felt sympathy for was Penelope until no,

(38:25):
I still felt because she's a victim. She is a victim in this.
She's not a white hat because shedoes awful things, but she's a
victim, and we will get tothat. Basically, the guy that escaped
earlier, Lenny, we go toa scene with him in the town and
he basically looks through a window intoa bar with sailors feeling up ladies of

(38:47):
the night, and he goes inand touches one, and she's okay with
it. She's okay with Hill upuntil the point where he starts choking her.
Okay, fair enough. She hasevery right to be pretty pissed off,
and so does a lot of thesesailors that were their client, because
there was a lot of their clienttele with sailors and yes, dock workers,

(39:13):
that kind of thing. So thisis kind of a rough up bar.
But these ladies are are pretty nicelooking, right, Like they're not
they're not low end hookers at leastthat's what it seems like to me.
There are some very low cut dressesin that scene. Let's the innkeeper will
put quotations around that he's is heYeah, he is an innkeeper. He

(39:36):
is an innkeeper. It's just thathe looks the other way. He keeps
the rooms for his girls, yes, and he actually seems to care about
them. Yes, So good onhim, right at least if if he's
providing a safe working environment, Ihave, I have a little bit of
uh, I'll give him a littlebit of credit. And it does seem
like he is again like if youcan't tell that, Darlena I here actually

(40:00):
support legal prostitution because it protects thesex workers. It doesn't you know,
if they're just out on the streetwhen it's illegal, they are not given
the proper protection of security or asthey can be exploited. There's always that
middleman. Yeah that's bad. Yeah, you want you want, you want

(40:23):
legal, legalized protections for sex workers. So back to the Victorian. Yeah,
Victorian, you didn't you didn't havethat like you. They were.
They were legalized to doing it,but they weren't protected every time. It
was not legal to be a prostitute. You could not be a prostitute.

(40:44):
The the difference, remember what thelaws were in London, specifically at the
time at the Ripper that the thethe women could sell themselves, but they
could not approach a man. Therule was they couldn't approach a man.
The man had to approach them andask, and that they could not stand

(41:05):
still. That they were not justlounging and doing nothing. They weren't just
being yeah, that they were actuallymoving. So that's the point of the
church that's right near Miter Square,that's right on the edge of the old
City of London, had that processionof sex workers that constantly walked around it

(41:29):
as like, you know, aconstant stream of sex workers. Because as
long as they kept moving, thecops Saint Mary's is it Saint Mary's,
Mary's it still is Mary's. Thatthey could not the cops basically would turn
a blind eye because they're like,okay, you know what, it's not
it's not harming anybody. And ifa guy starts killing prostitutes, well you

(41:52):
know that's where the problems start comingin with the repper, right, but
anyway back to this uh Lenny.Basically he starts choking choking this woman.
She screams, there's a bar fight. But it turns out Lenny is superman.
Well he's supposed to be insane.Well, it doesn't matter if he's
insane or not. He's been stuckin a cell. But he he rips

(42:14):
apart like eight sailors, yes,and breaks a lot of stuff. He
rips apart this bar like, hedoesn't kill anybody. But the man is
stupid strong, Like everyone's terrified ofhim after a bit, because he knocks
down these had hard drinking sailors likethere's no tomorrow. So the next morning

(42:37):
what we end up having is backat the lab. It turns out that
Emmanuel has tested his inoculation idea onthe monkey, and the monkey went insane
okay, and his daughter was outsome Well it's because he also thought,
boy, he doesn't want his daughtergoing down the same immoral route that his

(43:00):
wife did, so he also injectedher with the the inoculation. As he
is a poor scientist and a poorfather, so down the line, it
made me think that it was shemight he might not. He might think
that she's not his daughter. Itshouldn't matter if he's if she's his daughter

(43:22):
or not. She's a human being. And he just experimented on her.
And that is even brought up later, You, sir, should be brought
up up in front of a freakingboard. Remember his brother even says that
you experimented on your daughter. Us ob like. Okay. Anyway,

(43:43):
the monkey went crazy, basically brokeout of his cage and then like started
vomiting blood everywhere. And you sawit in the last throes of life.
It was twitching. It was twitching. Basically, it turned into a rage
zombie effectively, okay from twenty eightdays later, effectively. So it goes

(44:04):
crazy and I don't know what happens. Is is that his lab assistant says,
boy, I'm glad that we didn'ttry this on any humans, right
doctor. And it's not like heactually knows that he injected Penelope. The
point is is that it's there forPeter Cushing to like look sort of at

(44:25):
the camera with like wide eyes like, oh crap, I actually did.
So it turns out that Penelope wakesup and goes crazy like her mother and
dresses in the manner of a streetwalker of the time, a high end
streetwalker goes to this bar and startsgetting felt up by men dancing and all

(44:52):
that dancing wantonly and this gentleman,gentleman, well you okay, he was
being polite at first, right,and he said, why don't we go
upstairs, And she's like okay,goes upstairs, and he gets fresh because
he thinks she's a sex worker andthat he has basically paid for her time,

(45:19):
and she starts slapping his hands awayas he tries to gin. Well,
I'm not saying that. Well,he might have actually thought that she
was one of those girls in thisbar that typically worked for a couple drinks
of gin. That wouldn't be unheardof, that would not be unheard of.

(45:40):
Again, knowing what we both knowabout the rippers victims, how much
they sold themselves for, and howmuch gin was, that's not unreasonable to
think that those girls would work fora couple glasses of gin. So anyway,
he starts undoing her blouse. Heslaps him away, and then she

(46:00):
ends up They end up getting intoa fight because he's like the down Yeah,
He's like, okay, I guessyou want it roth Okay, Like
I'm not I'm not defending this guy. This guy's an asshole too, But
the point is that she claws outhis eyes almost he's got claws on his
you know, cuts on his face. And he walks down and doesn't raise
a fuss. Actually, he likeleaves the room, walks down and and

(46:24):
the bartenders like Surrey, you okay, and he's like, I don't need
help unless I ask for it,and then he leaves. It's not like
he actually like horse whips anybody oranything. He's just like, fine,
I've had it, I'm done fortonight. Like this, this girl's crazy.
So Penelope walks back down, startsdancing, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. And what does shedo to get Oh well, a

(46:51):
sailor gets grabby and grabs her breast, and because as again everyone takes the
she breaks a bottle and cuts themin the neck. Yeah, and kills
them. Kills the sailor who grabsher breast because again everyone thinks that she
is a prostitute and that's why she'sdancing wantonly, that's why she's in this

(47:14):
low cut, revealing dress. Ina bar, along with her hair down,
with her hair down, along withother women dressed. I won't say
exactly the same, but similarly,and again, I'm not saying that one
should assume that a woman is forsale. It's just that at in eighteen
ninety four, the play It's eighteenninety four, it's a different world in

(47:36):
that thing. Gentlemen out there,do not assume a woman is for sale
or is asking for something that isevil and wrong. In the context of
the time that this movie is supposedlyset in, in the place with very
drunk people, you can understand whya sailor might grab a woman's breast drunkenly

(47:58):
who is dancing in front of him, along with other women that have been
selling themselves. One you can understandfrom upstairs, and she came from upstairs
after being taken upstairs by a man. You can understand why he might think
that she's for sale. So insteadof saying, sir, I do not

(48:19):
appreciate your your advances, she breaksa bottle and cuts his throat. Okay,
well, but that's bad. No, she does. She doesn't speak
at all. She really's silence.She just doesn't give a ship. She
just cuts this guy's neck. Hedrops to the floor influence of the drugs.

(48:42):
So she runs in a where sheruns and hides in a warehouse,
and it's the same warehouse that Lennyis hiding in. And it turns out
that Lenny, Lenny isn't evil likewell, he isn't. He's sexual.
No, okay, you say thathe is not. He wants companionship because
there are multiple times in the warehousewhere he could take advantage of her and

(49:06):
he doesn't. He holds her handand shows her the ways. I think
it's he wanted a companion or somebodyto be with him, and he saw
the sailors doing this to the womenand he tried to like mimic it.
I think he's a very simple man. I think he is. He is.

(49:27):
He has a developmental problem. We'renot choking them though, no,
but they were running their hands aroundtheir necks and kissing them. So again,
Lenny has developmental issues. He seesother people he has like a man's
urges, but doesn't have the capabilityof understanding them, so he's trying to

(49:49):
figure it out. Lenny is achild, so Lenny's on the spectrum.
Lenny has a developmental issue. That'sall I'm gonna say. That's because I
don't want to put a label onhim, but because he clearly seems to
actually care. He's scared. Hesees that this woman is also scared,
right because she runs into the warehousehiding from these people chasing her, and

(50:09):
he tries to help her. Hedoesn't try to take advantage of her.
He doesn't, he doesn't feel herup. He muffles her mouth because she
screams when she sees him, buthe's like, he motions at her to
like, calm down. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna look. We're
gonna go and hide. Come thisway, Come this way. They get

(50:30):
up to the top so Lenny canlook to see how to leave, how
to leave, and she basically picksup a plank and beats the hell out
of him. No, she comesup behind him, and he ends up
being hit and behind from behind asyou're looking, and he falls. He
falls out like this loading thing upup like four stories up and he's hanging

(50:54):
on for dear life, and shejust grinds his fingers underneath her shoes.
So he falls to his death whilesmiling while she's smiling, and he's begging
for his life. You see hismouth moving like it looks like he's pleading.
You don't hear the words because shedoesn't. She doesn't care. That's

(51:17):
the point, Like she has becomeevil, right, So anyway, the
cops come in and capture her.She sent to the asylum and James start.
We see James experimenting on rats atthis point, and a nurse who
took a blood sample when Penelope wasbrought in shows James this blood sample and

(51:39):
goes, oh my god, it'sit's filled with these black cells with flagella.
Now here's where again this gets crazy. It turns out that these black
cells with flagella, we learn,are in every single blood sample from other

(51:59):
patients that are crazy. So beingcrazy is now a caused by a specific
pathogen. It doesn't matter what itis. We learned that everyone that has
gone crazy or is quote unquote evilhas different blood. That's very problematic.

(52:25):
I just want to say that that'sthat's very problematic. If it was that
easy. Oh god, let's justthere are so many I have so many
pages of notes for this. Okay, so let's let let's let's sum it
up James finds out about the experiments. He basically breaks into Emmanuel's house to

(52:45):
steal the skeleton because he wants toget credit for this amazing discovery. Was
the thing he too. He comeswith a carriage, cheap ass carriage if
you're clearly his carriage. He isoutside with the carriage and he sends his

(53:07):
coachman, which in the conversation withthe guy in his lab was well,
you just get someone that will doit, will do it. But I
mean anyway, he breaks into thelab, steals the bones. He drags
like the hand through some water ashe's getting out to the carriage. The

(53:29):
dumb criminal, Yeah, the dumbcriminal. They wrap this body of this
skeleton up in a cloak. Bythe way, at this time, Penelope
gets out of her room and isjust dancing kind of crazy outside because James
at some point has brought her backto the house. So she's murdered the
maid and has now escaped the houseand is just dancing out in the rain.

(53:50):
That means that guess what the whenthe inevitable happens that this carriage crashes,
the skeleton gets water all over itand it starts. So the he
going through the water pointless, andwe end up having Emmanuel seeing this cloaked
figure in the distance and the driveris now dead and he finds like the

(54:17):
finger that he cut off from theskeleton earlier, and he throws in the
fire. Okay, fair enough.So uh, at this point you have
this cloaked evil figure come up tothe house. Penelope lets him in,
and it does nothing to Penelope becausePenelope is evil anyway, and evil knows

(54:37):
evil, I guess it. Sohe then like stalks through the house to
find Emmanuel, and Emmanuel opens upthe door, and I guess this creature
steals his finger to replace the fingerthat Emmanuel destroyed. Kill somebody kills his
system. It was the guy thatwas trying It was, yeah, the

(54:59):
guy was the that was trying tosteal the skeleton. So Emmanuel basically goes
crazy in his wife's bedroom, andthen we go back to the beginning of
the film of him trying to describeto this doctor why he's there, you
know, what he has done,what his discovery means. And it turns

(55:21):
out that he's inside the asylum alongwith his daughter and his brother is profiting
from his brother goes back and getsthe papers. Yeah, because he's profiting
from the discovery the end, theend. So obviously we we have problems
with this movie. We have lotsof problems with this movie. There's lots

(55:42):
of problematic things in it. There'slots of uncomfortable things in it. There's
lots of really bad story or confusingstory, not confusing, just you know,
it's you're like watching two movies thatare kind of coinciding. They only

(56:07):
weave in and out at some someparticular time, like the guy escaping and
then Penelope being with him, thebar being the bar. You know,
I don't. I don't know ifI would say it's it's two movies.
Let's let's start. Let's start withwhat worked in this movie, because there

(56:29):
are things that worked. You start, darling, please Well the acting was
not their tap game, no,but the top It was good acting.
I wouldn't say excellent, no,but it worked. Like Peter Cushing,
Christopher Lee both very good. Ithink Lorna Helbron was good in this as

(56:53):
well. Not excellent but good.They weren't at the top of their game.
No, No, Peter, I'veseen Peter Cushing and far better,
far better. I think I evenlike Peter Cushing better in the Doctor Who
movies, honestly, but this isstill He's still fine. He's still good
in this. Like I like whenhe is on screen, he has charisma.

(57:15):
Christopher Lee, I think he doesfine. He has charisma. I
think this is again not at histop. You're right, so what works?
What? I think? The thingthat works for me most though,
in this is the sets. Thesets are all very interesting, well dressed,
well put together. Obviously, thestupid science stuff with you know,

(57:36):
colored fluids and beakers, I hatethat. I hate it, even though
it sort of makes sense in thecontext of this movie. I just am
so sick and tired of seeing itthat it bothers me even when it makes
sense to be there. Well,you have the same problem that I have
with the Jacob Slatter. Oh,well, to me, that's fun.

(57:59):
But I mean the colored liquid justseems it just sits there and does nothing.
If it's bubbling, okay, fine, at least that's fun. It's
it's a little more visual. TheJacob's ladder is like that too. It
just why is it there? Idon't know, it's a Jacob's ladder.
It looks cool doing that, butlike just colored liquid sitting there doing nothing.
But it's been in movies that don'thave anything to do with Sure,

(58:22):
it doesn't make sense in Frankenstein,yes, all right, But does it
make sense in a space move amovie that I don't know? Maybe?
Maybe maybe I don't know, ButI like the sets in this. The
sets are actually really well dressed.You can tell that. You why people
get this confused with like a hammermovie. Again, it's because of the

(58:44):
actors and the sets look very good. But it falls far short. That's
all I'm gonna say about Like whatworks in this, I think the acting
in the sets, because everything elseis the the story is is poor.
I can't sell the thought. Ithink it's. Yeah, it's poorly thought

(59:05):
out, it's badly stitch together.I can't say the movie is badly paced.
No, but the story is justlike there's still many flashbacks in it.
Again, folks like I take notesfor these. But whether the question
is is whether you've been in thewhole time in a flashback? Now the

(59:25):
whole time it is a flashback.That's the point. It's all unreliable narrator,
So does that make sense? No, it still is a poor movie
for being a poor plot, poorpoorly told. You don't tell a badly
told flashback. It's still a moviethat you're trying to watch. You're trying
to tell the st I'm talking aboutthe flashbacks and the flashback, all the

(59:46):
flashbacks in the flashback. Yes,like when he sees his wife and blah
blah blah. See. I don'tknow. I do think that Emmanuel put
his wife into an asylum because shewas inconvenient, that that she had passions
that he was not willing to putup with. Okay, but why would

(01:00:06):
you marry somebody like that in thefirst place? Because he had an accidental
pregnancy with her and she threatened himto come forward with it. I don't
know, Like I buy that farmore than her just being like, oh,
I'm gonna be put into asylum becauseI cut a man who was trying

(01:00:29):
to She could have said this guywas trying to rape me. How much
would that fall back in that timeas a performer, I can see that
being believed, But she didn't,Like she's just like nah ah, I
mean, there's no reason for herto not to try to defend herself on

(01:00:51):
that right, Like, I'm notI'm not I'm just saying I was really
weirded out because I never Yes,you are correct. We are in a
flashback the whole time, but there'sflashbacks inside the flashback flashback, and how
reliable are those flashbacks? And none, nothing of the story is reliable.

(01:01:17):
Yeah, nothing that we see isreliable at all. The only thing that
we can tell for sure that istrue about the story based on the opening
scene. In the final scene isthat Peter Cushing's character is missing a finger,
the same finger that supposedly the evilbeing cut off. Okay, that

(01:01:40):
the skeleton is in there, right, the skeleton is not as there's a
picture. Well, there's the paintingthat kind of looks like what the skeleton
would have been like if it hadflash on it correct, And we see
the flagella cells that are the samein the flashback. Yes, that's what

(01:02:06):
we see. Everything else is unreliable, absolutely, everything else is unreliable.
So this entire story could have beenuntrue effectively, like it's all effectively meaningless,
and it could have been like agood tale even then, even if

(01:02:27):
it was unreliable, if it wasinternally consistent slash engaging. But it wasn't,
like it was just sort of confusingand I don't know, like you
like to say, like it okay, but yeah, it started fine and
then it just went very quickly offthe rails, with like the constant flashovers

(01:02:50):
to Christopher Lee in the Asylum andhis crazy mk ultra stuff. Why is
he experimenting on severed arms with electrodes? Like this is eighteen ninety four,
you know about nerve cells twitching withelectrical impulses like, because they are figuring

(01:03:12):
that. Yeah, that's the wholepoint of Frankenstein eighteen ten, seventeen hundred.
They had already been Yeah they weredoing it with a frog because they
could really see that you can doit with lighten jars, with leiden jars,
like yeah, with a frog,like making him twitch, making the
legs twitch. The point is isthat this is stuff that has been known
about for over a century. Let'sput it a even in the eighteen nineties.

(01:03:38):
It's like over a century. Whatare you trying to do? You're
just being gruesome experimenting on severed limbslike and you're not doing anything for the
mentally ill. No, you're notdoing any Yeah, what are you trying
to do? Making an arm twitch? Are you gonna like, bring in

(01:03:59):
some psychic that is going to seea twitching arm and go no, I'm
saying now, sorry, thanks,thanks for your treatment, doctor. So
the doctor himself is crazy, Well, I don't know that whole family is
not. I hate I hate sayingthis, but I'm not going to recommend
it. I'm not recommending it.I hate saying it because I like Heilbron,

(01:04:20):
I liked Peter Cushing, I likedChristopher Lee. They are all good
actors. I could I walked outof this movie what twice? Yeah,
and I paused it so you gotto see the whole film. But like,
yeah, there were points where Iwas just like, man, why
what's going on? Why am Iwatching this? Everyone's kind of shitty.
Well, we need to wrap thisup because you're just rambling. I am

(01:04:43):
rambling. But I'm so disappointed init because a lot of these hammer esque
films are very good, especially withthese actors. It's just really disappointed.
Like out of ten, out often, what would you say, three
three? I think that's that's oohthree or three and a half, I
would say. And the only reasonit's there is because of the actors.

(01:05:05):
Actors in the scenery really like Ithink there's a solid film in there.
The idea is fine, it's justhow they presented it. It's just how
they presented it. And I'm sorryif this again, Like I always think
that I'm rambling, and you evensay I'm rambling at times, But I'm
trying to like get across points ofwhere I'm really uncomfortable watching a film or

(01:05:30):
what like joys I feel when watchinga film. And I had a lot
of just uncomfortable moments, from theuncomfortable moments of the gentleman's rape of her
real sexual assault. I had theproblem with the father daughter stuff of him

(01:05:54):
being just really awful, being areally poor father, and yet seemingly coming
across Emmanuel like Peter Cushing plays itas though he's just like a truly loving
father who has nothing but his daughter'sbest interests at heart. He really does.
He's not playing it sinister at all, Like he's not trying to like
wink at the camera at all.He's playing it as though he is a

(01:06:16):
white hat. He thinks he is, but what he's doing is not ethical.
No, nothing about this is loving, ethical or right. Nothing.
Now, Christopher Lee's character comes offas the sinister evil, sinister evil solb
that he pretty much is is unlesswhat is said at the very end is

(01:06:40):
true, which is all that stuffis a made up Tell yeah, if
Christopher Li says it's all made up, it's possible that it is all made
up and that he really that thatChristopher Lee's character really isn't a bad guy
and isn't related to Yeah, whoknows? Who knows? At this point

(01:07:04):
like that, that's kind of theI don't know. We should just leave
it there. Yeah, we bothdon't recommend it. I feel bad about
saying that, but we don't.We don't. If you want to watch
it, go ahead. It's nota complete waste of time. It isn't.
No, but I didn't care forit. So I'm Aaron, I'm
darling. Good evening, We keepwatching the Skies. At no point in

(01:07:28):
your rambling, incoherent response were youeven close to anything that could be considered
a rational thought. Thanks for listeningto this episode of This Week in Geek
Hungry For more, check out ourwebsite. If this Week in Geek dot
Net, you can subscribe to thepodcast, browse our Twitter and Instagram,
and leave your thoughts on today's topics. If you'd like to give us some

(01:07:50):
feedback, send us an email atfeedback at this week in geek dot net.
Tune in next time, and remember, lower your shields and surrender your
listenership. We would be honored ifyou would join us. Thank you for
your cooperation. Good night,

All Episodes

Earth vs Soup Ep 173 - The Creeping Flesh (1973)

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Earth vs Soup Ep 173 - The Creeping Flesh (1973)