Key Takeaways from NFL Week 4! Chiefs/Bucs, Packers/Pats, noble losses & moral defeats

It was another topsy-turvy Sunday of NFL action, but don't stress--we went live on @TwitterSpaces first thing Monday morning to break it all down and tell you what you need to know.

From Aaron Rodgers to Bailey Zappe, we covered all the big names, big news, and big upsets (especially of our picks, whew).

Episode Transcript

(00:14):
Three and Out Your National NFL podcastfeaturing three sports media approach me Tai Shelter
five, thirty eight, Durmer SamanthauNBC Sports, Michael Shoddy with thirty thirteen.
We do this every single week.We get on Twitter spaces live at
eight o'clock Eastern and we break downevery single game, tell you what you
need to know from action, andthey also have our personal key takeaways from

(00:39):
from what we saw. What's what'simportant, what are the trends, what
are the games that we needed topay attention to, what we need to
know going into this. When werecord it, we drop it into the
main feed, the same feed wherewe do are maybe a big show where
we get a big guest that aroundbig NFL topics, and then of course
we pick all of these games straightup and against the spread. Yeah,
and Shoddy, that could be akey takeaway is that I don't think we

(01:03):
did very well as a group.It picks this week either straight up or
against the spread, a lot ofa lot of surprising results or or surprisingly
unsurprising results to go through. Shaddy, in fact, do you want to
talk about that a little bit more? If I had to, like paint

(01:27):
a picture or create a lead tojust for the NFL in general. Yesterday
hits that there were some like againstthe grain moments really up until Seider in
football, but there were some againstthe grain moments that there's always happens.

(01:49):
This always happens, like Week four, Week five, there's some trends that
are happening, and just one weekin the NFL has to jostle it all
up. And I think that wasthis past week. Just hey, we
know what's going on. You know, the the Steelers are this this tough

(02:10):
running football team, they can't gettheir act together in the passing game.
And then hey, we're gonna dothat with a plum, but then also
do that well losing the Jets.The Ravens at times looked like the best,
most well run team in the NFL, and now we've got one of
the most revered coaches, you know, flipping out and players yelling at them.

(02:34):
There were just enough counter trend momentsin not just week in Week four,
not just for this season, butalso like the quote unquote Legion of
Boom Seattle given up bonkers points anda shootout with the Lions, Like those
were the two teams I expected tocrush the over this past week. There

(02:59):
were just so many moments where Iwatched and I was like, this is
not the same league that it wasin weeks one through three. And I
think that's one of the things Ilove most about the NFL. Yeah,
I and I did. I didlike the over the Seahawks Lions gave clients
missing Tracy Walker. I needed tobe mebe even slightly worse on defense than

(03:20):
they had been, which is quitebad. And I knew that. You
know, there's a risk though withthe wide receivers out at Dander Swift out
might not be as much. Um, this is actually gonna be kind of
my uh key takeaway Cheeto Smith,just Cheeto Smith falling out put all the
eggs in the Gino Smith basket.Is this kind of like what Pete Carroll

(03:42):
did with Russell Wilson right when youknow they went all in on a vetteran
quarterback, drafted Russell Wilson and went, no, you know what, like
I'm I'm sorry. Um, thatwas the Packers back up Floyd uh Flynn,
Matt Flynn, and they went allin on Matt Flynn to fit him

(04:04):
like twenty million dollars for three yearsand then they drafted Russell Wilson and my
own no, no, this guy'sbetter. They traded for Drew Lock and
they went, oh, you knowwhat, Gino's got it and you know
was running, Gino was throwing,he was taking advantage of his weapons,
and he's he started hot almost everysingle game so far. But he started
hot, finished hot. And unfortunatelyfor the Lions, we all like to

(04:28):
see you win. They can't stopanybody. They can't stop anything, no
run defense, no past defense.Exciting to see Goff go out there chuck
it around without a mom ros SaintBrown and without a DJ Charter. But
is this going to be the Lionsput up a million points and lose by
three every single game of the restof the way. I'm not sure.

(04:50):
Yeah, I mean, first ofall, on the Lions and um,
yeah, I mean Jared Goff likethis is really encouraging, Like truly he
looks a lot better and not lethe's being propped up by the people around
them. My mom, you knowin number one inexplicable Jared goffam um called
me yesterday afternoon through Jared two tofour touchdowns, Like Jared, she knows

(05:13):
It's like yeah, yeah, youknow what, he actually looks like a
real quarterback now, which is amazingthat Lions have a lot to work on
defensively. This was kind of afrustrating game, even though I love that
they never quit. That matters,and I think that they're headed in the
right direction. But yes, Seattleand what was supposed to be a lost
here because everybody said, well Drewlock or Gino Smith and barns out,

(05:34):
we were all right, boy DrewLock, Um, maybe not so much
about you know, so he's reallynever gotten an opportunity before this to get
out there as a starter um becausein Seattle has obviously been very, very
weird that he's playing behind there,And like, I mean, do we
really blame anyone for what happens tothem while they're under the care of the

(05:57):
Jets, But he's really been youmentioned sort of the pejoritive, Well,
he's a running quarterback, and thatwas always mentioning sort of the most awful
and also like the worst way evenamongst running quarterbacks. It was not a
compliment. It's not like when peoplesay, well, Pops can run,
but job Fallon can run. Lauarjactually can run. This was the oh

(06:18):
you take off because you can't throwthe ball, and it was like,
no, he's taking off because he'sunprotected and because he has no one thrown
too. And now that the situationis a little bit different, I think
he's shown some diversity of skill set, which is really important in which we've
never seen from him before because he'snever had the opportunity to show it.
Yeah, and he one of theother things like not that he was slow,

(06:40):
persane, but you know, stillgot the hangover of the oh,
well, this guy's black and hedoesn't have can and arms, so he
must be extremely dangerous running the ball, like he must be a running quarterback
like that. That was not hisgame college. And then like you know,
if you don't have uh, youknow, Marino level arm tight or

(07:01):
the big level arm talent, you'regonna get put in that that box,
especially at the time came out.But yeah, I always love to see
guys who didn't get a fair shapestick around in the league, get their
opportunity and take it. Guys,Shatti SMITHA, either of you have any
one thing you want to hit beforewe just go into the whip around and
break down all the games. Sowe talk a little bit about Ravens bills.

(07:26):
Um. Oh yeah, we're gonnahit that anyway. But I think
this one's worth a little bit ofextra conversation, um, particularly on the
Ravens. And I mean this isthe second time they've blown away lead,
um, which is concerning. Um, I mean, glasses have falling.
I'm certainly not encouraging anyone's planic aboutthe Ravens. You know, the optimistic

(07:46):
perspective on this would be, asthey're a really good team, if you're
gonna lose some football games and you'regoing to lose some pigs like Buffalo and
Miami and but you know, theplay calling was kind of weird, especially
inside the ten at the end there. I mean they had multiple opportunities.
I mean somebody has kind of jumpall over the bar and say, well

(08:09):
miss Renae and Anazon. But Imean there was some strange play calling.
They've had a ton of drops.It might take away from this is like,
you know, part of the problemis that the perpetual Greg Roman issue
of like screen screen, screen,like all of this, like why why
do you not have any receivers?Why do you not attempt to watch?
Like I know they have an issuewith drops there. But it's very very

(08:33):
bizarre to like be like, youknow what we should do board chet motion
and not like go down field,like why? And I wonder like is
there like a sort of latent gamesigning there. I mean, I've heard
of Dalla's game battered around. Idon't hate it, um, but they
need some help there certainly, Butmostly what they need it's like just better

(08:56):
keep better play calling. I mean, you know, we've ripped greg in
a lot omissionally, especially talking aboutthis for a long time, but it
showed up in speeds in this gameyesterday, just a game that should have
been winnable for them, where they'vejust made a lot of errors of the
strategy. So I was there.At what point do we collectively look at

(09:22):
the Ravens and say, this isa team that seems really on both sides
of the ball pretty bereft of talent, and then remember that when we get
to draft season and follow over ourselvespraising their draft classes, because offensively,

(09:43):
they are still looking for options,they're still looking for weapons, they're still
looking for guys who can you know, really be the solid part of that
offense, not just the part thatmakes plays every once in a while,
but like the thing you depend on, they don't have them. Yes,
jak Oppins coming back from injury,he'll end up probably being that guy eventually,

(10:03):
but behind a offensive line that's goodbut not great, with a wide
receiver corps that's that's mediocre but notgood. Defensively, again, we praised
them every single year for all ofthe steels they get on the defensive side
of the ball. Where where whereare they? You know? I said,

(10:24):
I think coming into this week thattheir defense has been struggling and it's
not really a Mike McDonald their defensecoordinate or problem because it predated him.
It was it was there before hewas there. Was there? Well he
was at Michigan, you know,going to a national title game. So
are there like systemic coaching issues?Yeah, yeah, I think there are.

(10:46):
I think we're starting to get intothat point with John Harball, like
almost like he's overthinking things, likehe doesn't know which of the new coaching
fads to try so that the gamedoesn't pass him by, and so it
seems like every week he's making somesort of mistake like trying to overcorrect or
course correct the wrong way, andhis coordinators do not seem ready for prime

(11:09):
time. I've never thought Greg Romanwas, and Mikeael Donalds does not seem
to have what it takes to rightthe ship with this current crop personnel,
and he necessarily in the season.But the Ravens, for you know,
doing pretty well like they're not.They have Lamar Jackson. Lamar Jackson is
so good, and I hate thatweekend week out we have the Lamar Jackson

(11:33):
talk about how well how good ishe put up these great numbers? Is
he really that elite or he didn'tput up a league numbers like that those
were pretty best or numbers seeing theproblem this team. We're gonna keep talking
about Lamar Jackson weekend week out whenreally it's everything around Lamar Jackson that we
can't trust. And that needs tobe the conversation with the Baltimore ratings and
the Buffalo Bills for all. Youknow, yeah they won, yes they

(11:56):
were made one of the best teamsin the NFL, but they looked to
mortal yesterday and that's one of thosemoments where the Ravens mats were man bleed
a little bit. And so I'mnot going to put a ton of you
know, a ton of weight onthis loss for the Ravens other than they
just can't seem to get their actright. But if I'm the Bills,

(12:18):
I'm going back to the drawing boardafter this would making sure that the things
that beat us in the first halfagainst Baltimore don't happen. Yeah, yeah,
this is where I was going togo with the Bills. They held
the Rams to ten points, theyheld the Titans to seven, They had
the Dolphins to twenty one, andthen the Ravens to twenty. Bills had

(12:41):
the number five scoring offense in theNFL after four games, and then number
two scoring defense. I think whatwe're looking at is that the Bills just
make everybody look bad because they arereally really good. Ravens all the number
three scoring offense, but you're rightshoddy and at the defense twenty they're to
thirty two. I'm less worried aboutthe Ravens offense because this isn't you know.

(13:05):
They've always needed wide receivers. They'vealways been bad at drafting wide receivers.
They've always been bad at giving themour weapons outside, I will say,
outside the tackles, outside the tightends, outside the hashes. You
know. But they've been able toscore points in the games. Besides that,
it is the defense where you go, Okay, you've got all these
players, you've got all this talent, gave up forty two to the Dolphins,

(13:28):
twenty six to the Pats, whoare not great this year, especially
offensively, and then yeah, theBills, you held them to twenty three.
But at some point you do needto score more points than the other
team. Two and two your Dolphinsand Pats head to head. Those are
the teams that you were trying tobeat for the AFC East title that was
supposed to be yours rolling out ofbed. You got to go better than

(13:50):
than five hundred against those are sorry, East Ravens are going against those for
AFC you know, seating and conferencechampionship game. You go one and two
against the Dolphins, Pats and Bills, Like, I don't know, that's
it is a little bit alarming,But I don't think. I don't think
we're really pushing the panic button.To borrow our sketch from a couple of

(14:13):
our seconds from a couple of weeksago. Yeah, and sort of for
all the talk about you know,the Bills with the bank don't break defense,
which is something that concerns me alittle bit going forward as a Bills
hit. But also it's I don'tthink we're in a position now it's the

(14:33):
Bills where we really need to worryabout that. But I'm a little bit
worried about the Ravens. I meanit kind of comes back to what Shotty
said, where we're going, Okay, if we're going to continue to praise
you and talk about how you aregenius at drafting, then like, why
are you allowing things to put somany points on the board. I mean
that Patriots team in particular, andcoming back to a team that look like,
you know, they wouldn't know acopper play call if it fell out

(14:54):
of the sky and hit them onthe head. You know, you let
them put twenty some points on theboard. That's concerning going forward. The
problem is a Lamar and even theoffense is poorly run as it is,
sure, I mean it's but Iam worried about that defense. This is
not how like the chaosk Goblin AFCNorth, like grind it out and win

(15:16):
the game twelve to ten. Thingworks, But you're also not looking like
you're going to boat race anybody.So like where's the where do the critical
close wins come from? That?And if you can't do either of those
things, all right, let's goto the whole whip around every single game.
This is what we do here.I'm three and out your national fl
podcast Monday Morning he takeaways, breakdown every single game, tell you what

(15:41):
you need to know, if youmissed anything you watched to think you have,
if you have thoughts, if youhave takes, definitely go ahead and
raise your hand. You love toget people in love to answer your questions.
And in fact, right now beforewe go into the rundown, I
am going to put in a littlebit of a break here. Because we
record this, we drop it intoour main feed the same for you.
We put our mid week big showwhere we have big guests. Go to

(16:03):
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But twice a week every week havebeen. This is our third season
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look, you do a great show. I'm gonna put in a quote unful

(16:26):
break right now, just so Ican put an ad in us case of
bills in the main. Fee willbe right back here on three and out
your National NFL podcast. All right, We're back on three and out,
your National NFL podcast, featuring threesports media pros. It is our Monday
morning Key takeaway show. We giveyou key takeaways from every Sunday game,

(16:48):
the whole full slate, the onesthat we picked straight up and against the
spread, the ones that we didnot do so great picking on the whole.
Let's just get right to it.We had We had a lund in
game Vikings Saints. Technically technically footballwas played, and for most of it
it was a forgettable game, butwe came down to a double doink Vikings

(17:12):
win twenty twenty five. Samantha,was your key takeaway from this one?
I think it's lovely that we shutour European friends. Um, the power
of the double joint. Um.That's pretty much all I got out of
this. It was kind of atrash bole. Um. I think it
went pretty much the way that weexpected. UM, not exactly marquee matchup,

(17:32):
but hey, we gave you adouble doin Hey, if I'm watching
football in England, I expected professionalto be able to hit two bars or
in the cross part. That that'sjust something most football players over they were
able to do. Um. Ithink I've learned from this one. And
Andy Dalton is the quarterback of theSaints that he's been better than and injured
Jamis Winston was, and he mightbe better than healthy Jameis Winston because this

(17:57):
team does not made some of thethrow the ball fifty yards on the field.
They need someone to just sort ofmatriculate the offense. And Andy Daltons
still looks like he can do that. Yeah. I saw once forgat who
it was that treated this but treatedguys, I don't want to overreact,
but this is Andy Dalton's team,And then quote tweeted himself, you know,

(18:18):
forty minutes later it was like,guys, I don't want to overreact,
but this is the refs team now. So I was helping the field
in games. All right, let'sgo Cowboys twenty five Commanders ten, so
I wanted to think of this one. I think exactly when I thought going

(18:40):
into the game, Carson Wentz isa terrible quarterback and I probably an o'cate
him in being I don't know,but the Couples won this one because the
Commanders are just so bad. Yeah, this is probably one of those games
where we need to talk more aboutwho lost it instead of who won it,
mostly because I need the is therea quarterback controversy and Dallas thing to

(19:03):
stop right now? It's horrible.No, stop this Cooper rush. Oh
stop horrible. But yeah, Imean we can talk about what was worse
is Carson Wentz or those awful,awful new black uniforms that they have debate
they have debuted, excuse me,which are just horrendously bad. Yeah,

(19:26):
it's it's it's brutal. I don'tknow why, Commanders, I guess I'll
say this. I don't think theuniforms were that bad necessarily. I think
there were terrible Commanders uniforms. MattTurrell, a friend of mine who was
the first official NFL team blogger hiredby the Washington franchise way back and I

(19:47):
think twenty ten, it was like, these are perfectly fine uniforms that don't
even vaguely resemble or evoke anything thathas ever been connected to this team.
Like there's there's no way you turnon the TV and look at the Cowboys
playing this team and go, oh, yes, it's Cowboys versus Commanders,
which might be fine if, likethe home uniforms, weren't very clearly connected

(20:11):
to the entire history of the team'sbrand identity. It's just another example of
lie, this name and this brandand this image didn't work. And yeah,
oh, by the way, they'renot good at football either. I
want to just go back to thefirst sentence in your field, because I'm
pretty sure you ended with I don'tknow why the Commanders, and I think
that is the best. You know, just pull that out of context,

(20:34):
you know, just control see thatso we can control me that at any
other moment. That is just anevergreen quote. Titans plus three and a
half at the Cults. Oh shoot, I didn't put down the actual score.
I just read the line of thegame that was before it. Hold
on, let me get the actualscore because I'm great at this. Yeah,

(20:59):
Titans twenty four Coult seventeen Titans whenCults are now one two and one
after four games. Samantha, whatdo you think is the time to panic?
If you're me and you said thecults where you're sinking super Bowl awesome.
Yes, it feels rather alarming.I mean, I know my thing

(21:22):
is always to say that your teamsin your division play you closer, and
you will have a harder time beingweaker teams within your division than you will
teams outside of your division. Butif you lose to everyone in your division,
you're not going to get very great. Yeah, for Derrick Hunting,
that was nice to seem obviously happyabout that. Not the outcome I was

(21:48):
expecting here, but yeah, Imean sound the alarm on the cults too.
It's I mean, it's easy toblame Matt Ryan, or easy to
point at one this element or theother, or the receivers are not that
talented, or the offensive line isnot playing up to its talent level or
what hadn't but it kind of lookslike the whole thing is kind of rotten,
which is really concerning going forward.I think just about everyone looked at

(22:14):
this game and said, well,if Jonathan Taylor and Derrick Henry cancel each
other out, then we all kindof expect Matt Ryan to be better than
Ryan Pannell. And I think alot of people were picking the coals for
that purpose, but they didn't canceleach other out. Those running backs might
be equal in terms of you know, ability, talent level, you know,

(22:36):
their ability to sort of control games, but the offensive lines in front
of them and the defensive line stoppingthem were not equal. And the trend
that continued in this one was theColts have just been really really bad in
the trenches and the Titans consistently overachieve. If I rattled off like just four

(22:57):
random names and told you that thatwas the time defensive line, who probably
shake your head and be like,yeah, that's ups right, because it
doesn't take the first star talent.And this is the one thing that I
think Rabel brought over. He hasn'tbeen like the direct descendant from the Belichick
line that many people become that youknow, all those former assistants really go

(23:21):
and put everything from New England intothe organization. The Titans have not done
that. But I think the onething that Rabel has brought to Tennessee from
New England is that I just needsome guys. I just need some dudes.
I need some dogs, Like giveme, give me a bunch of
ye from the defensive line and wewill stop the run. And I think
That's what it came down to inthis one. They had a very yeoman

(23:42):
like day on the deep the lineand continue to show that the Colts have
some problems in the trenches, andthat made it very easy for Tennessee to
went this one. Yeah, let'sgo to the Browns losing to the Falcons.
Browns were one and a half point, they lose by three. Samantha,

(24:03):
would you think of this one?A lot of a lot of rage
at Kevin Stefanski floating around the Clevelandfan base, and I'm not sure that's
like a hundred percent where it shouldbe. But you know, he did
have his Pete Carroll momentum yesterday.I know, why are you passing from
the one when you have both NickChubb and Korean Hunt? Oh my goodness.

(24:27):
This tendency to try to get cuteand we're going to trick somebody like
you don't need to trick people ifyou have somebody who can just bash their
way through. And we've seen alot of this kind of stuff, which
I think is a little bit concerning. Um some and what would I call
it, sort of about a lackof identity from the coaching staff and the

(24:48):
way the players are getting called isdefinitely a concern going forward. Also,
Jacoby percent didn't have a great game, which is fine, that's going to
happen any at. A fantastic gamea week ago, not so good this
week. That kind of how thatone's going to go. But the Browns
still should have been able to winthis game. And their defense did not
look great. Saw a lot ofguys in the secondary looked like they were
quitting on plays. That is veryconcerning to be going forward. What we

(25:11):
didn't see was the Falcons sort ofinnovative offense explode the way that it's done
so in recent weeks. So theBrowns at least had like the scouting tape
figured out, if nothing else,they didn't allow the Falcons to trick them
as much as the Falcons have beentrickstry in the past couple of weeks.

(25:34):
All that being said, smoke andmirrors aside, this was a pretty rough
game for Marcus Mariota, and Ithink a lot of people are still sort
of casting eyes like he needs tohave basically a perfect game every week to
not have people calling for desmon Ritter'shead or for desm Ritter come out there.
So they're calling for Mariota's head atthis point, and I think it's
probably a little short sighted. Butat the end of the day, you

(25:56):
didn't draft Desmon Ritter to be along term and back up, and you
gotta be able to drop back andthrow the ball, and right now,
Marcus mary Or does not seem capableof doing that. Yeah. I know
Falcons fans are desperate to get Ridderout there. I'm curious though, I
think they're kind of slow playing thisbecause the idea of right now for the

(26:17):
Falcons is not to win as manygames as possible. It's to make sure
if you do have something in DesmondRidder, that you bring him along as
he is ready. But hey,they're winning games anyway. Speaking winning games,
the New York Giants are doing it, you guys. They're winning football
games. The Giants beat the Bearstwenty one to twenty. I like the

(26:40):
Bears to win this and you know, cover plus three with getting three points
against the Times. They did cover, but they did lose. Shaddy,
what did you think of this one? The giants magical mystery tour of having
the easiest schedule in the NFL continues. I had the Bears in this one
as well, but it ended upbeing, you know, a pretty typical

(27:06):
bad Bears game, and that gaveit to the Giants. I mean,
you had what it was like fortyseconds of just the Bears not looking like
a professional football team at the endof that one. And as much as
as much as begin like this onthe Giants all day long, and I
will absolutely join that party. Um, they've never looked that bad like the
Bears are are finding new depths atwhich to plunge. And yeah, when

(27:32):
the scheduling gods got together in theoff season and went like, what do
we want to accomplish this season,and that somewhere along the way somebody decided
we want buying Dable to look prettygood first time head coach, and and
here we are with the Giants atthree and one. But look, I
mean, I love this, Iwant the nights, and I love sake
one bark. We obviously fell apin state alone or in weirdly attached to

(27:55):
Daniel Jones. So I want theGiants to do well. But it's if
you're gonna be a like below averagebut at the top of the below average
pile team, you have to goout and beat teams like the Bears,
who are looking like they are muchcloser to the bottom of the below average
pile, so good for them.A little bit worried about Daniel Jones is
an ankle, you know. Whenit happened, it looked a lot like

(28:18):
high ankle spring, which was deeplyconcerning. But right now they're saying Danny
Day, so it looks like probablynot so got a little bit lucky.
Dodged a bullet on that one.But hey, three one Giants Eagles twenty
nine. I was muted. Iwas muted. Eagles twenty nine, Jaguars
twenty one. I feel like thisis one of those moral victories. Like

(28:38):
I read the game right. Ipicked Eagles straight up Jags against the spread.
But at pickwatch dot Com when wepicked these the Jaguars were getting six
and a half, which you addthat to twenty one, that's twenty seven
and a half and that is notmore than twenty nine points, which is
what the Eagles scored. Shaddy,what was your key takeaway from this one?
Both of these good you to bevery very tough teams for very different

(29:03):
reasons. I think the Eagles justhave an absolute ton of talent, and
if the Jaguars had really half asmuch talent as the Eagles, they would
have won this one. But theEagles have put together again, like over
the course of like four or fiveyears, they've put together a better team
than when they like dropped all ofthose fantastic players in one season. Why

(29:26):
when they built that like really tremendousand tremendously awful super team like a decade
ago. They have a much betterroster right now. But it's because they've
drafted really well. They've got guyslike Jordan my Alatta from really weird places
quote unquote from typical traditional NFL youknow, talent pipelines, and they've built
this juggernaut that a team like theJaguars can come in and absolutely overachieved like

(29:51):
we all thought they would, andthen still fall short and still lose against
the spread. Yeah, this soundsa little bit like some of those Lions
games a year ago, where wego, this is exciting the gut lose,
but it's like a good loss,and I normally, you know,
moral victories, yikes. I mean, you turn the ball over five times,
you're going to lose. That's justhow football works. So they have

(30:14):
a long way to go. Butlet credit to Doug Peterson and into the
people who are there. They arereally short on talent, particularly on the
defensive side of the ball, butthey're getting better and I think they're playing
above their heads right now, whichis a good thing in this case.
And Army Lawrence, I mean,yeah, you know, rough day yesterday.
But in his defense, I meanhe's had this is his fourth game

(30:36):
one like under a real NFL coachon a real NFL team, So I
mean, you know, he hadkind of a lost year a year ago,
so the stuff is gonna happen.I think the jaguardser headed in the
right direction. This was a niceshowing against a very very good opponent,
but still got a long way fromall right, Let's go to Shitch getting

(30:57):
three and a half points at thePittsburgh Steelers. The much vally who'd return
of Zach Wilson. Would he bean improvement or a deprovement? Is deprovement
to work? I don't it iswhen you're talking about Zach Wilson. There
you go, so was in facta deprovement. The Jets go to Pittsburgh

(31:19):
and win twenty four twenty shouting withyou think we spent the whole week talking
about whether or not who would improvetheir quarterback position. We didn't talk about
whether or not he'd improve their receivingcore and sucks down for Zach Wilson.
And this one maybe made the differencebecause are the Steelers bad enough now that

(31:41):
bad teams just do whatever they wantto do offensively and bust off these trick
plays not out of like desperation tobeat the Mighty Steelers, but just because
we might as well try against thisteam because they kind of suck. I
feel like it's kind of the laddernow, and that's really distance earning.
This is not the Mighty Mighty Steelersof old, like this is. There's

(32:04):
no like strike up the band,old timey NFL fight song, like black
and white film, real clips oflike hard nosed guys wearing hard hats and
you know, getting concussions and notcaring about it. Like this is not
that group of guys. And Ithink the Steelers, as much as they're
excited about guys like alex Hi Smith, as much as they're excited about Kenny

(32:25):
Pickett throwing a pick on his firstever throw pick on his first ever NFL
pass As excited as they are becausethey've they've overachieved a little bit this season.
The Jets picked on them a littlebit and that's got to be frightening.
So yesterday, for the first time, I wore my shirt that says
Zack Wilson is good. It wassaving it for when he made his season

(32:46):
debut and Paul Zack Wilson was notgood. Um, I think the shirt
might be lucky because you know,the one is a win. So Zack,
I mean, yeah, eighteen ofthirty six, one touchdown, two
sceptions. I think his rating waslike fifty nine or something, so not
wonderful, but good enough to wina football game against. The fairly half

(33:07):
was looking at Theford Steelers. PoorMitchell got benched in favor of Kenny Picking,
who then came in and through threeinterceptions, so that was a great
Mitchell had a reading of seven andseven point five. By the way,
I'm not a huge QBR person,but you know, seven point five is
pretty bad. Whether you truly believein the rating system. We're help.

(33:29):
We know that's a bad outing.So poor Biscuit, very bad day.
Pick it not much better, ZachWilson like King of the Terrible Quarterback Bowl.
So hey, that was fun.That's gotta be worth something, right,
Chargers thirty four, Texans twenty four, and the same story as a
couple of picks ago. I tookthe Texans getting four and a half at

(33:52):
that point. They end up losingby ten, but still a good showing
against the Chargers team that's theoretically muchbetter than them on paper. Samantha,
do we still think the Chargers aremuch better than the Texans or maybe the
Texans at least a little bit decent? Yeah? I think, well,
well we'll go negative first, PAUSI. Theatis is that I have been really

(34:15):
down on the Chargers all season,and this is why they let a team
that's really really talent devoid of talentcome back on them from being down like
points. I mean, this isjust horrendous, Like the Chargers. Every
week they get out there and youthink the team has so much talent,
and then they just do stuff whereyou're like, why is this not adding

(34:37):
up to something better? I mean, injuries, absolutely sure, but it
looks even worse than the injuries wouldindicate. There's been some really bad coaching
decisions going on here. I'm reallyworried about the Chargers. This is why
I did not have them at thetop of this division. This is why
I keep saying I don't trust thecoaching staff there. I love Brandon Staley,

(34:57):
but I don't trust him. Buton the positive side, I mean,
this is kind of cool for theTexas, a team that has been
sort of summarily mocked for years nowand haven't been able to get anything going.
And they were way yeah in thefirst half of this game, and
they just kind of quietly crept theirway back. It was almost like the
Chargers didn't even notice and acquitted themselvespretty much they thought they were going to

(35:20):
get them. At one point,I thought, oh, could have gone
back and win this. But youknow, again, no moral victories,
sure, but this is about asclose as you can get if you're the
Houston Texas. Yeah. This goesback to what we said about the Jaguars,
that the Texas just don't have enoughtalent. And I think all of
this sort of saw what was happeningwith the Chargers from in your perspective,

(35:43):
and you know, really thought thatthis could be a bit of a trap
game where the Texans, who wereabsolutely overachieving, playing out of their mind.
For Lovey Smith could could sneak thisone in and get their first win,
But the Chargers are still just thatmuch better in in justin Herbert.
You know, he's got things fallenapart around him and he's still that dude,

(36:05):
Like he's still that guy. Andthe Texans just don't have enough to
stick with a team that's got enoughviable NFL talent to win football games.
And this isn't a good feeling forthe Chargers, like beating the Texans,
and this one should not make youfeel good because healthy, actual strength,

(36:27):
playing the way you should be playing. This is like a twenty twenty five
point blowout and that this was notthat. Yeah, no it wasn't.
And we'll we'll see, we'll puta pin in this for the Chargers Cardinals
twenty six Panthers sixteen Cardinals here,we know they should be more talented.

(36:49):
We know they should be more thantwo point favorites against the Panther's team that
is now one in three. Samantha, what did you take away from this
one? I think Arizona needed towin this game because the fact that we
were even questioning whether they wouldn't lookat the talent level of both of these
teams indicates some trouble. And thenyou see Kyrolina up early in this one

(37:10):
and you're like, oh boy,here we go again. So to me,
this is just kind of Arizona takingcare of business to the way that
they really really needed to, becausethis is a team that I'm still really
really worried about it. But Iwould have been a lot more worried if
they dropped again to the Panthers,who just looked horrendously bad and yet still
maintained the lead for a decent portionof this game. So good for the

(37:30):
Cardinals were getting out of their ownway for one, But I don't think
we're out of woods yet. ThePanthers defense did what we thought they were
going to do. They slowed downKyler Murray, they slowed down the Arizona
rushing attack, they created some turnovers. But then the Carolina offense did what
we expect them to do. Theylaid an absolute egg. Christian McCaffrey was

(37:54):
a pretty lock solid one or topick in most people's fantasy drafts, and
he delivered with nine catches for eightyone yards, but he only had twenty
seven yards rushing and when you couldonly like rack up forty yards on the
ground as an offense, that thatmeans you're probably gonna struggle against the team

(38:17):
like Arizona. Who's going to tryto hear stuff out, Who's gonna try
to to you know, I'm gonnasay the word blitz and of a different
connotation in football, but they're gonnatrying to blitz you offensively. They're gonna
try to bum rush you offensively.And if you can't sort of control the
clock or take care of the football, things like this are going to happen.

(38:37):
And that Carolina offense in year four, quarterback four whatever, you know,
whatever the numbers are still cannot seeme get its X straight? All
right? Raiders thirty two Broncos twentythree Broncos are getting two and a half.
Raiders win by more than that.I think we all thought this might

(38:58):
be the necessarily get right game.But the way the game that things break
well for the Raiders, shaddy,what did you think? Yeah, this
is still the Broncos can't shoot straight. This is still the Broncos don't have
a real identity, don't really understandwhere they're coming from. What they do

(39:19):
well. Who they are is anoffensive coaching staff as a team in general,
and someone has to take charge.This is one of those moments,
whether it's the very stereotypical like playersonly meeting or players only practice, or
you do the you know the quoteunquote come to Jesus moments. Something's got
to give here. You have waytoo much challenge to be this battle of

(39:40):
football team. Yeah, I thinkthis is an opportunity for the Raiders to
kind of get off the schneide andalso Denver. I mean if you're the
Raiders, like I don't care whatthe records saying, and I know this
has been a little bit of astruggle for people if you're kind of very
casually following football, and why didyou think that the O and team was

(40:00):
going to beat that too? Andwell, yeah, I mean like my
kids, for example, it's veryupset it's took Dender based on the records,
and that technically made sense except forthat they've been extraordinarily lucky, like
just unbelievably lucky for how badly thatthey've played, and the Raiders have been
incredibly unlucky. Um. I thinkI mentioned this last week before and it

(40:22):
looks like if the scale balanced outa little bit here. So I'm still
pretty worried about the Raiders. TheBroncos are headed in a bad direction,
but at least Vegas kind of gotthere, like he said, not really
get right game, but sort ofat least get back on like the right
side of the road. Yeah,this is this is where I'm thinking too,
is that the Raiders just you know, needed to get needed to get

(40:45):
one on the board. And theBroncos. We've talked plenty about the Broncos.
Nothing nothing new there. I don'tthink they have it. Chiefs.
Oh wait, did we talk Chiefsbooks? We said, Samantha and I
talked Chiefs books in the run uphere Sunday Night football. We get a
wiered wire, fun one to watchwith big teams. Everyone was excited about

(41:06):
it, and it paid off.Chiefs forty one bucks thirty one Samantha,
you're gonna make you talk about ita little bit more. Hey, that's
okay. We're just happy we gota good game for once in time.
I was talking before the show startedabout how it's really quite a relief to
see that they've all remembered how toplay football after seven PM again because it
has been a rough go in primetimeso far this season, so this is

(41:30):
kind of the headliner we needed.Chiefs I think, pretty impressive performance.
I think this was intended to bea statement game with fort and they made
it also for anybody who was alittle bit worried about the Chiefs and the
post Terry Kill era. This wassort of a good I guess clinic on
how Andy Reid just kind of adaptsto whatever he's got in front of him

(41:52):
and son us Pat Holmes, andnow we're looking at a game where all
five touchdowns are scored by either runningback or a tight end. The Chiefs
just kind of adapt and tweak.And you can do that when you have
Pat Mahomes and Travis Kelsey and dida tremendously talented team all around. But
you know, some credit I thinktoo and read for being able to do

(42:15):
that. However, keep your eyeI think on that defense. You know,
the Bucks are down with twenty onethirty the second quarter, in thirty
eight seventeen and the third quarter,and they just kind of kept coming back.
And also fourteen of those points scoredby the Chiefs lyon were awful fumbles
which is an indication of luck.So this game could have turned out really

(42:37):
differently if that funny shape thing thatthey play had bounced a little bit differently.
So I don't think anything to hangyour hand over if you are the
Bucks, and also some things towork on going forward if you are the
Chiefs. Yeah, Mahomes is justan absolute alien of a person. He
was tremendous throughout much of this one. But Andy Read I think gets the

(43:00):
game ball because of h Yeah.I mean they had a backup tight end
score on a QB keeper. Theyhad a backup tight end who only caught
like twelve balls in college make oneof the most tremendous catches of this season.
They were doing some pretty crazy stuff. As an offensive coach, we

(43:20):
talk about get into your bag alittle bit, like into your bag of
tricks, and you always know whenAndy Reid is in his He does it
in big games, and when hedoes it, he does it like two
excess where it's like, dude,save some of this for next week when
you guys look stagnant. Save someof this for next week when you guys
like keep running the same slants overand over and over and can't really figure
stuff out because they have those momentstoo where Andy Reid sort of gets in

(43:44):
a rut, but he loves printtime. This man. You give him
an extra week to repair, oryou give him a night game, and
he just spends all day twittle inhis thumbs, wondering how he's going to
embarrass the other guy National TV,and often he doesn't. He is that
guy. So on the flip side, I think Samantha was spot on,

(44:04):
and not only am I worried alittle bit about the Kansas City defense,
which always like I didn't finite.I'm like, since you know, since
they built the stadium, I've beenworried about Chiefs defense. But the moments
late in that game where I waslike, wait a second, and I'm
doing like multiples of seven and eightin my head, like like the Buccaneers
aren't as far back as we think, And there were some vintage Tom Brady

(44:30):
moments like it wasn't the whole game, and there's clearly some speed bumps and
some sawdust to shake off. ButI'm not as worried about the Buccaneers after
this loss as I have been atdifferent points this season. Yeah, and
I it's funny to say Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, and Julio Jones came

(44:51):
back on the field for the Bucks. Like that's a wild about tail to
get back on the field that Ithink it shows in the act foul functionality
of the Bucks offense. I'm stillnot convinced on them in general. I'm
not convinced the ship is righted there, and certainly I still don't put them
in the class of the NFL.But the chiefs, the care of business,

(45:15):
they handled the business. At leastthe Bucks aren't like weirdly terrible out
of nowhere like we kind of fearedthat they might be. Um, I
think that's gonna be it for KeyTakeaways today, dude. Oh, I
thought we talked about that at thebeginning. I think we talked about it
before the show started. Oh,you're right, okay, all right,

(45:36):
So let's go ahead of get toPatriots Packers and my fault. Let's close
on that. Obviously, that onewas one I loved. You give me
Bill Belichick and ten points. Itwas ten and a half per pickwatch dot
com. It was still nine anda half when the game kicked off.
Bill Belichick and ten points. Iwill take that every single time. And
I think that's what we got,even though we went not only downgraded from

(45:59):
Matt Jones to Brian Hoyer, butfrom Brian Poyer to Bailey Zappy. Early
in this game, Zappy becomes thefirst group quarterback to throw a touchdown pass.
Interesting, interesting stuff that, Dan, I seek your request there.
I'll get to you in just asecond. Um, Samantha, why don't
you go ahead and then then we'llsee Dan. Is this the rookie quarterback

(46:21):
that you thought I would score inthe first touchdown? Bailey Zappy, third
stringer for the Patriots. Probably not, Um, you know, fourth rounder
out of Western Kentucky. Not exactlyhow we drew it up, right,
But this was kind of great.Um. It was hilarious because it made
Aaron Rodgers really mad, and weall love it when Aaron Rodgers gets really
mad. Um. The Patriots,I mean, I almost got this one.

(46:42):
They had the ball at big dealin overtime and then they went three
and out, so that was kindof a Bummerum. It would have been
absolutely hilarious to see Bill Belichick ata rookie quarterback take down the Green Bay
Packers. Didn't work out that way, Um, Packers, I think need
to ask themselves a lot of toughquestions, but that's not unusual at this

(47:05):
time of year for them. Butbut hey, this is fun, right
and tie, I will just stackabout what you said, like yeah,
bow attack under the circumstances with thatthat many points like oh my gosh,
even even with Bailey Zabby who atthe home, absolutely no doubt. All
right, Danny should have ability tospeak good and jump in all right,
man, that's wanted the less manfinish. Thank you so much. And

(47:28):
I really enjoyed the show. Iwas listening to the beginning of a bit
you guys were talking about with thepassionility, and I was just curious because
I was obviously it was a itwas a roller coaster day yesterday for the
Lions, and take with unity.I know it's not the best look for
AG at the moment, Aaron Glenn, but you know, I just you
know, we have to I don'tknow, We've got to get through a
tough time. But the reason Idecided to push the button with the request

(47:52):
was obviously we're meeting the Patriots nextweek, the Lions meeting the Patriots next
week, and then they're going togo into our buy and I for myself
personally, I would be absolutely finewith a two three going into the buy
um and sort of, you know, meeting Matt Patricia and and having it
having we've been scoring we're the worst, were the worst defense and the best

(48:13):
offense. You know, we've beenscoring crazy numbers of points. And sometimes
when I had my worries about JaredGoff last year and everything else, when
when he was going through his mentalacl I kept thinking about that Case game
with the Rams and how it's likefifty one fifty four something like that.
And I sometimes think about those barnBurners you have in the Premier League,
and I'm just also like the inthat Casey Rams game with the with the

(48:36):
defense is crap? Is that howthey got to one hundred and four hundred
and five points? You know,like it's sort of Seattle couldn't score in
the second half until until our game. And so obviously we we sort of
we take stats and we throw themout saying, oh, that was great
up until this game. But Iguess I'm just going to stop talking.
So I'm not sure, but I'mjust curious about your thoughts about any of
that stuff. Well, I'm notwondering, and I don't know. This
is one of like another question backto both of you than an answer might

(49:00):
be an answer. I don't know, But did anybody Has anybody looked closely
at the time of possession yard becauseto me, it's like I almost feel
like sometimes the Lions are scoring tooquickly, they're not giving their defense enough
time to get vested um. Andobviously you know there's a talent back in
there and need to play better thanthis, especially late in games. It's

(49:20):
not an excuse per se, butyou know, they did spend an awful
lot of time on the field,um, which is like, you know,
I mean, what are we doingif now we're going to complain about
Jared Goff he's scoring too quickly,like, oh, he's so bad.
I don't know, he's too good. Like it's it's not I mean,
as problems have in terms of whatis affecting your defense, is a good
problem to have. But because thisis the Lions are struggling with this latent

(49:45):
games, that's something that I reallywonder about. It doesn't look like you're
coaching issue. It's probably that andjust you know, there's still some strides
to be made. In terms oftalent. Frustrating way to lose, certainly
though, shot, you gotta takeout that. Oh Hetty is showing as
a listener. Oh yeah, hehad he had to take a call,
text has to take take ok noproblem, all right. Well then I'll

(50:08):
jump in and say, yeah,that's interesting that you bring that up for
the Becker And I was looking thisup. The Lions are twenty sixth in
the NFL in average time possession,actually tied with the Vikings at an average
of two minutes and twenty seven secondsper drive. Um, and I think
that's although they're getting many more pointstwo point five one points to drive versus

(50:30):
the Vikings one point seven six.I think that's that that shows you a
little bit. And to that point, you know you started right off.
Um, the Lions allowed a quicktouchdown, go three and out on offense
punt. Uh. You know theyget the strips, you know, the
strip on a fumble recover, scorea quick touchdown, Seahawks score touchdown.

(50:52):
And he's like it was back andforth, back and forth, and the
Lions could not get to stop,could not slow down. Gino Smith,
Um, what a shot, Pennythink averaged nine point six yards per carry,
Like you you're not going to getoff the field when you are allowing
a dude to get it first downevery time he hands off the ball,
You're gonna get beat up physically andyou are going to get drained physically going

(51:16):
through something like that. And obviously, again, you know, the Patriots
aren't as effective running the ball.Talking about next week, but we can
see that they slow down and chokeoff teams and you're gonna the only way
you can win. Is it thenattract me that that's not great news for
Detroit, But I think it justbecomes an issue of talent. You know,

(51:36):
you have to have the players stakestops, you have to have the
players to disrupt, and right nowin the secondary without Tracy Walker, I
think anybody who can throw the balleffectively is going to be very very difficult
for Detroit to slow down. Maybemaybe Bailey Zappi is not gonna throw the
ball effectively enough to make that aproblem. You know, maybe the bill

(51:59):
because real in it a little bit. I wanted to say one thing.
We do know Bailey Zappie from theSenior Week and you guys, I forget
this before the show, During theshow, but we were the ones who
gave met fully met second contract becauseit was it was our week seventeen game
when he came. Yeah and heand he got like twenty billion for it.

(52:20):
Sorry, Yeah, for sure,that was that was quite the nice
present for mister Flynn. Uh.Putting up those those points, I just
overall, you know, yeah,I think obviously the Lions have an issue
and it's gonna have to be asas addressed as much as back coaching as
they can. But maybe Bailey Zappiein the past and can give them that,
um well, if they could slowdown. You know, the packers

(52:44):
of that been scoring nearly as manypoints the line, so there's there's a
window of opportunity there. I seeShatty's still listed as a listener. We've
been going for an hour. Ithink, Samantha, you have any objections
if I call it right here?Yeah, I think this is a good
place to stop. All right,let's do it then. Thank you so
much everyone for joining, Thanks Danfor asking a question, jumping up on
stage. We love to chop itup with you guys. Monday Morning Reaction.

(53:06):
Never a dull week in the NFL. This one was no exception.
We have recorded this. It's goingto get dropped into our feed. We
are going to go next week.I'm sorry were this week. Later this
week we'll have a big guest.We'll go along on big NFL topics,
and we'll pick all these games straightup and against the spread, just like
we always do. If you wantto hear it, make sure you subscribe
at three outpod dot com. Allof the podcast providers are up there.

(53:30):
Follow us on Twitter at three outpod, Follow us on Instagram at three outpod,
Like, rate, review, share, follow your friends chopping up with
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(54:00):
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