August 25, 2021 • 42 mins
Series 13 Recap
Jessica and Phillip continue their "classic Who" watch with Series 13, starring Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen as the Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith. This completes their second season with the Fourth Doctor - they talk about the differences between Pertwee and Baker, how Sarah Jane holds up as the "sole" companion of the series, and what the best stories were. They look at "Terror of the Zygons," "Planet of Evil," "Pyramids of Mars," "The Android Invasion," "The Brain of Morbius," and the globe-trotting "The Seeds of Doom." Which story is your favorite?
In their look into the TARDIS library, the couple speculates on what the new Series 13 will bring with the final journey of the Thirteenth Doctor and the departure of showrunner Chris Chibnall at the end of the run. What are you looking forward to in the remaining time of the Whittaker Era?
Jessica and Phillip continue their "classic Who" watch with Series 13, starring Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen as the Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith. This completes their second season with the Fourth Doctor - they talk about the differences between Pertwee and Baker, how Sarah Jane holds up as the "sole" companion of the series, and what the best stories were. They look at "Terror of the Zygons," "Planet of Evil," "Pyramids of Mars," "The Android Invasion," "The Brain of Morbius," and the globe-trotting "The Seeds of Doom." Which story is your favorite?
In their look into the TARDIS library, the couple speculates on what the new Series 13 will bring with the final journey of the Thirteenth Doctor and the departure of showrunner Chris Chibnall at the end of the run. What are you looking forward to in the remaining time of the Whittaker Era?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the NERD Party. Welcometo Time and Space, a Doctor Who
(00:34):
podcast. I'm Jessica nine, andI'm her husband and co host Philip Gilphis.
Well, for today's episode, we'regonna be talking about season thirteen,
and then we're gonna be talking aboutseason thirteen. Okay, well that's an
interesting choice. I like it.So we're gonna be talking about season thirteen,
(00:55):
which is the second series starring theFourth Doctor, which took place nineteen
seventy five nineteen seventy six. Andfor our Inside the Tartest Library, we're
gonna be talking about the upcoming seriesthirteen, which will take place prisonably from
twenty twenty one to twenty twenty twoor twenty twenty one to twenty twenty three
(01:15):
or four. Who knows how longit'll last. All right, But as
we said, this is our startingwith the seventies. Season thirteen. Now,
this is our second full season withthe Fourth Doctor, and I feels
like it's a little bit longer.And I mean that in a bad way.
But what do you think about sortof our sophomore effort with the Fourth
Doctor. Yeah, these, Imean we were talking about this earlier.
(01:38):
These sort of blended together a littlebit, and there was one that reminded
me a lot. It's I thinkthis is how I feel about it.
Since they've released the tartesst right fromEarth, the writers have taken every opportunity
to throw in all sorts of randomscientists in space, A lot of scientists
(02:06):
in space, which gives you thechance for creatures, of course, but
I think it does. All therehasn't been like we're not learning about different
civilizations, okay, alien civilizations somuch as we're rescuing all the dumb ass
scientists in space. Colin, Now, we did get a few, not
(02:29):
all, Yes, absolutely, wedid get a few trips home, yes,
and those I enjoyed more. Sorry, well, I was just gonna
say this. In fact, ifI am correct, I mean very may
not be correct, but I believethis may be one of our final units
stories, at least for the Brigadierand Venton and all that we're not going
(02:51):
to see them for an awfully longtime after this. Yeah, that's sad.
So it's it's sort of interesting.But what do you what are you
still thinking of the Fourth Doctor aswe've come to know him now? You
know? Um, Yeah, he'sfine. Again, because we're getting all
these scientists in space, he obviouslyhas a lot more experience with everything out
(03:16):
beyond the Earth, and so hetends to know things but not reveal them
in any way, shape or form. And that happens over and over again,
which again I'm just finding a littlebit repetitive. Like you said,
when they're back on Earth and everybodyis familiar with something, I find that
(03:42):
more interesting than nobody knows anything exceptthe doctor and he's not telling, or
if he does tell, nobody believesthem. And what do you how would
you compare so far the Third andFourth Doctor, Because I feel like when
we watched the Third Doctor, wesort of, I say, gained a
(04:03):
new appreciation. He was sort ofnew to all of us in some ways,
and so we all enjoyed them.But the Fourth Doctor, who again
we somewhat know. But watching thisin order, are you gaining any new
appreciation or do you have a favoriteor I don't think I'm gaining a new
appreciation yet. I'm aware we've gotplenty of time. Yeah we were in
(04:25):
the second of seven seasons. Yeah, we've got time for him to grow
on me. And again, forthe reasons I've stated, he just doesn't
always give information, and yeah,and I'm finding that a little frustrating.
Oh I'm not going to tell younow, but I have a bad feeling
(04:46):
about it. You know, thatseems to happen an awful lot. And
yeah, but I I went intothis thinking I was probably going to quite
enjoy him, So I'm expecting toOkay, I have what I thought you
were going to say, Oh,now I'm disappointed. Yeah, No,
(05:08):
I'm still expecting to have high hopes. I have high hopes. Well,
then, this is the third seasonwith Miss Sarah Jane Smith, whom I
love. Still going on? Whatdo you how do you think? You
know the Third Doctor and her onlyhad one season. Is the second season
with her in the fourth Dard doyou think what of the different dynamics or
(05:28):
do you think there are different dynamics. I do think they're different. But
again, I think it all goesback to exactly the same thing I was
saying. You know, Um,with the Third Doctor, they were on
Earth almost exclusively, and so shecomes in with some knowledge, right,
(05:50):
Um, Whereas with this one,particularly in this season, I don't think
I felt it quite as much lastseason. She has to do a lot
of running and screaming, right,Um, and you know, I'm not
a big fan of that, particularlyfor Sarah Jane, because she's such a
(06:12):
great character. Um, So Idon't think she's had as much opportunity to
to spread those tiny wings and flyaway kind of thing. Well at they
know, not trying to be spoilery, but she only has one season left.
Then I hope that they make gooduse of her. I mean,
(06:34):
this has just been her and theDoctor. So we sort of got rid
of Harry last season. Yes,so that's just the two of them,
and I think I'm not sure necessarilythat they made the right call on that,
again because the doctor's the know itall, and so I think that
(06:59):
having somebody that Sarah could Sarah Gyanecould play against would have been a good
thing. I sort of had therapport with Harry that was sort of you
know, old girl and all thatstuff. Yeah, and sometimes rescuing him.
So we did get a Harry appearance. We'll talk about it, yes,
but yeah, but yeah, andI think that that interplay could have
been quite useful in this season.So well, let's get into the specifics
(07:25):
here, and we won't necessarily goin depth and everything, but just sort
of touching everything here. Um.The first series or the first story,
um was Terror of the Zigons.So this was sort of the first appearance
of the Zigons. Um I believeI say that, I feel like I'm
that's right. But anyway, um, and so you know we sort of
(07:47):
know them from knew who with theDay of the Doctor and all that stuff.
But anyway, um, but whatdid you think of? All right,
we get our scott our Scottish adventureum, and uh, we get
sort of this made up town.We find out eventually that it's made up
town, and we get the Zions. Would you think about with the sort
(08:09):
of fake people, the fake townmembers and all that. Yeah, I
liked this one a lot. Ifound this one quite interesting. Um.
Again you know, going back toit's, at least on the surface,
um, a more homegrown, earthboundstory and so there are some aspects of
(08:37):
familiarity. UM. And yeah,I this is this is one that I
really enjoyed. Actually, that's that'swhat I have to say about that.
Yeah. And we get sort ofyou know, the Brigadier and doctor and
Sarah and Harry, and if Iremember, we sort of get a memory
of recalls this is sort of Harry'sfarewell, which sort of just seems to
(09:00):
be sort of like you have thisbig adventure and it's like, all right,
time to go back to the targets, and he's like, I'm good,
yeah, no thanks, okay,well yeah, you know, sort
of get any goodbye as much aslike okay, well all right, yeah,
off we go and we'll never mentionyou again. Well you'll look at
some moment yea um, but umyeah, let me get the Lotnous Monster
(09:22):
because of course not yeah, ofcourse why not? Um cool? And
then we get Planet of Evil.Um. So we did not do the
synopsis for the Olenless who Planet ofEvil. So I'll say it's very short.
Picking up a distress call from theedge of the known universe, the
Doctor and Sarah Jane by themselves onZetta Minor, where a geological team has
(09:43):
run a foul of some strange goingson. So this is um, I'm
I was gonna say, stereotypical doctorwho you know at this point in our
viewing, it's not necessarily stereotypical,but you sort of get alien planet jungle
planet in this case because you know, there's only like three kinds of planets,
uncle planet, desert planetary exactly.But anyway, um, but I
(10:07):
think this was sort of interesting inthat I always like it sometimes where they
just sort of start with the storylike it's not the Doctor story yet,
they start with whatever's going on,you know, and you get that sort
of feel, and then the doctorappears, you know, maybe after the
title sequence or something, yep,and so you sort of establish what's going
on before getting into it. Andthis is our first one in this season
(10:30):
of scientists mucking up things on otherplanets. Yes, yeah, which we
got several of last season as well, but it kind of reminds me of
now, I'm forgetting the name ofit, the Doctor Who's Special Mission to
the Unknown, the one without theDoctor, the one that they redid the
College students redid, whereas with theDaleks, but you know, because it
was the one without the doctor wherethey just it's kind of was the same
(10:54):
thing. These two people are,you know, scientists or colonists or researchers.
And then it was like the monsteror something, and then the dogs
end up coming up because I thought, if they're controlling the monster's been a
second. But anyway, kind ofthe same thing, or they're just sort
of killing off one by one byone and there's the last guy left at
the end and then the dogs justget them. But kind of the same
thing. Yeah, And it remindsme of the one where it was like
(11:20):
the monster was just a guy coveredin netting. Right, there's a few
of them to be sure. Yeah, yeah, but it was another jungle
planet kind of idea. But yeah, yeah, they do sort of.
It's a lot of don't get mewrong, it's a lot of set to
do to credit y. Yeah,absolutely, and so you think they just
(11:43):
got it handy, And I thinkmy issue with them is that it ends
up being a lot of scientific jargonthat we're not expected to understand, like
even scientists couldn't because it's obviously sciencefi science jargon or even fantasies because I
(12:03):
don't know, like a Star Trek, it's like theoretically it's made up and
could be real, even though Imean we're making it up enough that it
sounds real, whereas this is justlike the flippity floppity flippy Yes, yeah,
yeah, our techno babble sounds realityand there sounds a little bit like
ts Eliott, do you think um, But there's so much of it,
(12:28):
that's so much of the story thatI lose interest. Um, whereas it
you know, if there's a littlebit of science mumbo jung jumbo that advances
the plot, I can sort oflet it wash over me and and move
on. But this is all aboutYeah. This one's sort of like there's
(12:50):
the antimatter universe, um elasticity yeah, yeah, and then the electric Boogaloo
monster. Yeah. And now you'rein coffins and we're going to chuck you
out into space. So if it'slike I said, it wasn't boring or
it were bad, but regular year, it's a regular So the next one
(13:16):
up is Pyramids of Mars, Soyou're gonna read that little I do in
a Victorian Gothic mansion, Strange thingsare afoot. The master of the house
away in Egypt has been replaced bya sinister Egyptian. Cloth wrapped mummies roam
the grounds, killing people. Beneatha pyramid. The last of the Sirens
(13:37):
sue Tech the Destroyer waits to befreed to it long last bring his gift
of death to all live. SoI feel like this is one of those
Fourth Doctor stories. That sort oflike if you know, you read like
one of the top ten, thisis on the list. Yeah, I
(13:58):
can see that because it's sort oflike Doctor Who has a Murder Mystery?
Um, and I quite like that. And again I liked the humanity.
You know, you've got the Masterof the House's brother, right, who
is? Who is? Because theEgyptian, the sinister Egyptian, looks like
(14:22):
the Master of the House, andso the brother is desperate to save him,
and so there's this humanity field doctorslike he's already dead, don't even
try it. Yeah, yes,yes, that was Those were excellent,
excellent impressions, by the way,baby. Um so yeah, I quite
quite liked this one. And Ithink it helps to sort of have almost
(14:46):
different jumping off points because I likethat sort of you had the background of
like, you know, Sarah Jane, you know, because I think it's
always the joke, you know,Sarah Jane walks out of the tartist and
some wardrobe expecting to be in someplace else, you know, the sort
of a long over the franchise ofDoctor Hill. I was going to say,
that's a running joke for all companions. Yeah, and but anyway,
(15:07):
they're supposed to be Unit technically arewhere Unit is just in the wrong time,
and it's like where Unit is,but before Unit, the building was
here. So it's this castle orhouse or mansion or whatever the heck manor
darling manner, yes, um andso, but so you start in the
manner, but then you also havethe village or wherever um and then you
(15:28):
sort of then you go across timyspacey to where suit Tech is, and
so you just create all those differentscenes and you have sort of the you
know, the warping tomb or thesarcophagus sarcophagus, Yeah, and the sneaky
bookcase that turns into a door inTrent's you know that, Yeah, doctor
(15:48):
who made some murder mystery. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, I did
like this one, of course.I think, um a joke is sort
of like suit Tech seems to beable to get all like for some one
who's stuck. He's able to likethrow stuff into the other dimension, like
can you just throw himself? Butit's also interesting to sort of meet sort
of this big, big villain,I mean, like it's it's you know,
(16:11):
often in these stories the doctor isfacing honestly small villains or you know,
ones he could probably take, butthis is sort of like a super
being and so this one he sortof I really had to you know,
work for it. Yeah yeah,cool. Well, next is the brain
(16:32):
of Morbius. So mad scientists HendrySolon is building a body from spare parts
to house the disembodied brain of theevil Time Lord Morbius. He fancies the
Doctor's head is the final piece.This was Doctor who meets Frankenstein. Yes,
yes, obviously, Um, thisis one this particular because you know
(17:00):
how many Evil Time Lords are wanderingaround because there's the Ohmga right right.
I mean he's sort of king ofthe Evil Time Lords, but yet oh
he's the king of the Evil timeld. I feel like this is yeah,
more of his this regular evil TimeLords. Right, oh okay, but
we never get to know like whyhe's evil, and I'm sad about that.
That's true. Maybe they mentioned it, but yeah, they didn't really
(17:21):
get into it, and I sortof feel like, you know, otherwise
you just have a two dimensional villainand that's never quite as much fun.
Um. This is where we doget to see the Sisters of Carn.
Thank you, Sisters of Carn,which I thought was interesting, I think,
especially well for us. I won'tspeak for you, but for me,
(17:45):
because we're not that I'm not thatfamiliar with them. I mean,
honestly, the Eighth Doctor mini episodeduring the fiftieth was kind of the first
time I saw them. Um.And so it's interesting to then go back
to the origins here, yes,and see how it all comes And because
the I don't know the Sisters withthe main character of the Sisters of Carn,
(18:10):
that's sort of a new who becauseshe kind of pops up again with
the Twelfth Doctor a little bit.Um. I mean that was sort of
interesting. But yeah, I justthink it's it's nice to see where it'
and you're like, oh, yeah, there obviously they are following what they
did, you know, the EternalFlame and internal life. Yeah. Yeah.
And he's like, um, youjust need a match yo, clean
up whatever. Yeah, I getthe soot out of the flu. I
(18:33):
think it's how these things work,um. Yeah. And so this was
sort of fighting against the Sisters ofCarn a little bit. This was fighting
against the Doctor Frankenstein and then fightingagainst Morbius. Um. But I didn't
(18:55):
it wasn't too terribly confusing. NowI think the only thing that he just
got all going back and forth somuch. Yes, I feel like they
didn't need to twist well because youknow, as many antagonists as you say
that there are, you know,which is fine. You know the Carns
is his car and capture and thenuh you know, Salons capturing him and
(19:18):
then at the end more but thenI don't know for like more of this
kind of like doesn't really get hisdu as he could have. I mean,
he just turns into lizard bug,Frankenstein monsters. Yeah, I mean
literally Frankenstein's monster. But at theend of Frankstein it's not very interesting.
I was just push him over clipor something like. It wasn't Yeah,
the biggest thing, Yeah, hugething. Yeah, And I I mean
(19:44):
I get what they're doing, butI don't know what the um and I
don't even forget his name, whatthe assistant really brings to the table.
Yeah, I don't. I don'tknow. I get what they're doing,
but it's yeah, I mean,if he had turned out to be the
big hero or something, maybe,but he doesn't really um yeah, I
(20:07):
don't know, just a big galutYeah, yeah, I don't know.
And look, I get to thesavenues. So it can't be like in
twenty twenty one that's so tired.It was it was new then, you
know. Yeah, so but it'sjust like the not very smart person we've
sort of seen, and you know, we don't want to make fun of
the people. Um he took thebloody guy's bloody arms sake, um and
(20:33):
put it on the monster. Yeah. And uh yeah, it would like
it would just be interesting. LikeI'm thinking back to and again not this
is original, but I'm thinking backto the third Doctor story which I'm blanking.
I think it was was the laststory Planets the Spiders. But anyway,
because you had the Algernon guy,you know where not very smart guy
(20:57):
that was in the house where allthe men, uh yeah, and he's
you know, he's he's an interest. I mean they use them fairly correctly.
Um. I want to say hewas called Tom. Yeah. But
then he sort of gets the powerof whatever and you know, suddenly becomes
(21:17):
which I'm not saying you have tochange the character to make him better,
but you know, you know,just having the not you know, the
slow character, right, it isgoing to have something there to make some
sweetness and not just be like,uh, he's slow. Yeah, I
mean he does give doesn't he giveSarah Jane something that ultimately turns out to
side the day? Yeah, becauseI think it's the crystal. Yeah.
(21:41):
Yeah, but you're not wrong.That was sort of an algernon. Yeah,
so maybe they're just maybe these guysare just going to the library.
Are you saying writers are not original? That's the isn't that? The idea
is that there are only seven originalideas and everything else is just a boot.
Yeah. I mean that's what Shakespearedid, so you know, oh
(22:02):
god, yeah, went to thebookstore. I can make this? Do
I know anybody who speaks Italian?Um? So? Yeah? I mean
this one was was all right aswell. I think it could have just
been polished a little bit more,just to give it some with all these
characters, but then they don't necessarilymake it a little more oomthy. Yeah,
(22:26):
and possibly could have been used alittle bit more pacing. Exactly when
you have that many you know,when you have you know, we'll obviously
always complaining classic woh, it's soslow and there's but like when you have
this many characters, you can dosomething that you got the time learn a
little bit more about the sisters.I mean, yes, the again I
(22:48):
can't remembering the characters down, butlike the assistant sister of the carn you
know, the second in command.She just gets like, maybe we should
try new things. No, andthis just gets like stopped by more orbs
and that's the end of her.I'm like, oh god, that was
quite the end for her. Yeah, and then we get the Seeds of
(23:10):
Doom. Here we go. Whenscientists in the Antarctic uncover a mysterious seed
pod, the doctor is called into investigate. He soon realizes it is
an extraterrestrial and extremely dangerous. Atthe same time, however, ruthless millionaire
(23:30):
plant lover Harrison Chase has learned ofthe find and decides he must have the
pod for his collection of rare andbeautiful flora. Meanwhile, the pod itself
harbors intelligent life with sinister plans ofits own. Now, this one was
(23:52):
unusual for this season. It wasa six partner as opposed to the four
partner we usually go for. UM. So, I don't know, did
it seem I mean, it seemslong. It did seem I mean,
but did you seem long in abad way? Um? Again, this
was a little bit scientists messing withthings that they don't need to be messing
(24:15):
with. Um, although I sortof wanted it to go and you know,
maybe it was not a thing thatwas people were aware of in the
seventies, but you know, there'sthe idea that global warming is causing so
much in Antarctica and other ice capsand things to melt that it ultimately is
(24:40):
releasing diseases that have been frozen anderadicated through the freezing, and so we're
going to have more of a problemwith diseases that we aren't expecting to show
up showing up. Um, Andthat would have been an interesting direction for
(25:03):
this to go in that that wassort of how this felt like it started.
Um. Yeah, this was scientistsrun a muck plus a little bit
of Benny Hill. Well you hadto be well, I mean, and
again this isn't a complaint. Itjust sort of seemed like it was two
(25:26):
put into one, which is finebecause he sort of had the Antarctic part.
Whichever. Get how many parts ittook, I'll say like three parts.
I don't know if that's right,but you know that I counted it
was forty eight of the parts andthen that sort of blew up at the
end and they're like, okay,and then we're for the rest of the
parts, we're gonna be over hereat the manner of the crazy guy,
the crazy the millionaire plant lover,right, darling. And then I think
(25:48):
sort of I don't want to callhim comic relief, but he almost is
that way if you're in a certainmood. His head thug, yeah,
the bad guys, And you're right, it does feel quite disjointed. I
mean that definitely kills people, butlike, you know, he's like,
huh, this guy. Yeah,and then you've got the artist woman.
(26:11):
Oh yes, that was a sortof a random storyline, yep. But
I mean it's not in a badway necessarily. It was just at this
is where you get sort of thebinny hill. You know, it's not
enough that we have this random extraterrestrialplant that's trying to kill us and take
over everything. We also have todeal with the zany millionaire plant lover who
(26:37):
keeps trying to steal it. Andso then the zany artist has to go
in quote unquote undercover to try andthwart those play You know, we got
we got a lot of big fishto fry. You know that plant thing
keeps growing and growing and great,can we stay focused? M leave it
(27:00):
alone? Stop that um. Butyeah, I think with this one where
where I were I to cut itum or prune it if you will.
Don't stop that baby, that's ugly. Don't do that. The Sarah Jane
and the doctor running around the mannergetting caught and then escaping, and then
running around the manor and then gettingcaught on the ground, so the manner,
(27:23):
you know, and then the gettinguh so you Benny Hill, and
then getting multiple times to get fedinto the plant grinder. Yeah, multi
yeah, the multchmaker grinder grinder grinder, not dissimilar to the coffins they were
in at the beginning of this season, as also not dissimilar to the Hush,
(27:48):
Whoosh, Edgar Allen, what's theone the edgrolland post yeah hit in
the pendulum. Yeah, but likeit seems to me, I mean,
I don't know, sometimes sort oflike kill people without us statting an eye,
Like I'm pretty sure you know,a guy just gets fed into the
compost thing, and like what dowe just kill a guy? Okay,
well, okay, these things happenedby me. I was like, that's
(28:11):
that kind of got because I feltlike, this must be very clean what
it does, because I figured thatwould have been like covered in blood by
the time we next saw it,excell us. But anyway, the housekeeper
comes in and cleans it well,because you know this is it's the sister
of the big thug guy. Idon't I don't know when. Um what's
her face? Um, the womanwho's going to complain about violence? All
(28:33):
right, yes, um, likethis is what I've kind of like.
I mean I don't know, yeah, because like I either guy clearly got
killed. I don't know if Iwant kids to be watching. I mean,
you know, you know, I'mnot trying to be a fruit bit
of like, well, maybe they'lllearn not to get too close to the
composting, to the giant steel compostthing that you've got in the laundry room,
I guess. Um. But yeah, yeah, so but yeah,
(28:56):
this I thought it was again.I mean, if you could cut a
little bit, it was. Itwas good. Obviously we're still playing with
our color separation overlay. Yes,yeah, big old plants monsters, So
yeah, it was good. Itwas good. So yeah, that was
more or less series thirteen of theFourth Doctor, and so next is season
(29:22):
fourteen, and I because that's theway numbers are, it is true,
And I got the Blue ray.It's already over there. So um,
whenever we get the chance to startit, whenever that may be. We
got a lot going on here.We got the mask of Mandragora, than
the hand of Figure, than theDeadly Assassin, the face of Evil,
(29:45):
the talons of Wan Chiang. Yes, and then that's the robots of debt.
There's there's a lot of nails inthere, and you will get introduced
to the next companion. Who isit? La yep M So we we'll
find out, all right. Well, with that, let's go into the
(30:06):
Tartest Library. Who wh wh whwhosh when you close your eyes, I
go to the library, the librarynow and as we go to the series
thirteen of New Who, which Iknow it's not very new at this point
because it's been thirteen seasons. Yeah. Um. Also, all we're doing
in the Tartest Library right now isgossiping, and I'm exactly excited. So
(30:30):
no news for anyone who's been keepingup, of course, that it has
been announced that with this upcoming seasonsometime this year at the beginning, we
will say goodbye to the thirteenth Doctor, which we all kind of assumed for
three years now. Yeah, butwe did not necessarily know that we'd be
saying goodbye to the showrunner. That'strue, Chris channel Willie at the end
(30:52):
of the series. Um. Sortof the details we've gotten is that they're
going to be six episodes. Anothershorten it and it's i've heard it gonna
be one big story. Okay,that's one over art, yes, And
in addition to that, then therewill be three specials in twenty twenty two,
um, which i've they've probably saidwhen it is, I just can't
(31:15):
remember. So it's probably gonna belike, you know, New Year's some
time in the spring. And thenI don't think it's going to be a
Christmas special. I think it's somesort of BBC anniversary, which it's gonna
be September or some non holiday time. Yeah. Well, and Chipnill is
defiantly refusing to do Christmas specials,that's true. Um, so that's not
(31:37):
necessarily surprising. During that childhood,who was the show runner for Eccleston Russell.
It was Russell. So it's soall we've had our Russell and Stephen
Moffatt and now Chris Chipnell. Sothis is a really pretty short one doctor
show run yeah, where everyone elsegot two. Yeah. No, I
(32:01):
mean you could say Russell course justdid one year with Chris so right,
but still yeah, um yeah,bit of a bit of a short short
run. And I'm okay with it. That's fine, it'll be it'll be
(32:21):
all right. Um. Yeah,I just don't feel like ultimately Chibnal settled
in. I think that he doessome things brilliantly for other show broad Church,
loved it, loved it. Hejust Torchwood was different and there's a
(32:43):
certain part and I like that.Yeah. I liked torch from the de
facto show runner for torch Yeah,and I liked Torchwood a lot. Um,
it just hasn't Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't know why
threaded that. Sometimes that's just theway it happens. Thing you think you're
going to be best at. Soyou're saying I shouldn't sure run a Star
(33:06):
Trek series, Well, I don'tknow. I'm saying that I tried to
save an outdoor theater that I wantedto save since I was thirteen, and
I failed, and somebody else hascome along and is doing a better job
of it. And as much asit breaks my heart that I couldn't do
it, I'm happy it's happening,and so hopefully Chris Chipnell feels the same
way. Yeah, and so we'reall of course, we'll get our new
(33:28):
companion for this final season. Yes, I'm ready forgotten his name and the
actor's name. Honestly, I can'tremember. I'm not looking at it.
No Bishop, John Bishop. Thereyou go. So I forget the character's
name. I don't know that I'veever known it. So so we'll see
and then yeahs and John Bishop yep. And then they've introduced I don't know
(33:52):
if it's necessarily the bad guy,but they've I didn't know, of course.
Well I thought I would know Britishactors, but they've introduced him.
I'm as well. Yes, soat least a person of interest, whether
that's the villain or not. POII guess, so yeah, so what
I mean, I don't know.I'm sure our expectations are low, but
(34:12):
they are they are, although I'mhoping to get more clarity with the tardist
being less crowded. And again,of course, only less crowded by one.
Um, you know, which isagain not just I loved all three
of the companions and all three ofthe actors who played them, but because
(34:37):
there were so many, there wasn'ta chance to really properly explore. And
so perhaps we'll get that. Ireally hope we get it with yeas well,
or not we get it with JohnBishop. I'm sort of indifferent,
But again I felt that way aboutGraham. So I don't know. Now,
I guess, I mean, Iguess I'm gonna That's what I'm emphasizing,
So I would assume we're not gonnahave any more you know, if
(35:00):
there's gonna be different show runner,presumably they're not going to carry over anyone.
Yeah, that's usually an all change. I mean, that wasn't always
true in classic who times. Necessarilyyou're right, but um, you know,
presumably this is the last season forJazz as well and Josh. Yeah,
he made there will be great andwonderful, just like Bill was in
(35:21):
the last season of twelve. Bill. Yeah, but uh, you know,
it would be great together Bill andYazz. There you go, that
would be a fun combo and theTartis and uh so, how do we
feel about learning to say goodbye tothirteen? Yeah, I don't know.
(35:44):
I don't know. Yeah, alot, a lot can happen, It
really really can. I was notparticularly crazy about Peter Capaldi until his last
season, and then I was reallysad to see him go because I don't
think again, not nothing against himat all. I don't feel like I
(36:05):
didn't like him and Clara together,and again, I love Clara with Matt
Smith. None of it, youknow, it's just about the chemistry.
I'm not trying to disparage anybody.But then you put Peter Capaldi in with
Bill Potts and Nordal and it wasjust great, and I thoroughly enjoyed that
last season, and then I wasreally sad to see Peter Capaldi go.
(36:28):
So yeah, I don't necessarily havehigh expectations, but I'm up for anything.
And while I'm saying right now,I'm sad to see Jody go,
mostly because I don't feel like shegot her just desserts. Yeah, it's
(36:49):
it's because I felt like at theend of twelve, this is my opinion,
you know, the gruff doctor andthe one who you didn't like and
he didn't like you but at theend you did sort of learned to really
like him, and he had thisyou know, the very sort of like
you said with Bill and then withthe relationship with Missy that was sort of
(37:10):
very tender and and you sort ofshowed this other side even with him and
Nard all sort of had this sortof sweet relationship. You know, they
pretend to hate each other, butoh they were reful and so you know
when he said goodbye, you know, to be kind and all that about
thirteen, like I she's just nothingagainst Joey. Of course, she's just
(37:30):
one note. I don't know ifthat we've Yeah, I was gonna say
yeah when you say with the lastseason of twelve, you got to see
a different side of him, ButI'm not sure we've seen a side of
the thirteenth doctor Um because because she'shad stuff where she could have had sides.
I mean, I'm not to retreadold Brown, but you know when
(37:53):
even in her previous season, youknow, when you had the Master and
you had the fault Alafrey, butthen she's just quiet about it, and
I was like, yeah, okay, yeah, And again, the combination
of Jody Whittaker and Chris Chipmill shouldhave been magical. They were, you
(38:13):
know, they both were involved withsome broad Church thank you, I'm going
off, and so it should havebeen and it wasn't, And I'm sad
about it because again, I thinkso much of both of them, more
I think more of Jody than Ido with Chris Chipmill. To be honest,
(38:36):
yeah, I'm sad she didn't gether chance. I don't know,
Maybe maybe she'll just show us awhole on these nine stories that are left.
Well, you say nine if youassume that the specials are about an
hour and a half. You assumethat the specials are about an hour and
a half age, so then that'slike four and a half. So it's
like ten and a half, notnine. So it'll be fine. It'll
(39:00):
be fine. Do we want toengage in the who will be the Next
Doctor? No? Not yet.Um. I did say something on Twitter
where somebody suggested, um, Ithink she's been on there before. I'm
trying to think what else she's beenin. She was in UM with David
(39:23):
Tennant. Uh, sexy guy,sexy guy, sexy. Yes, she
she was the UM crazy girl andCass and I've okay, who ends up
like running a club or something beingincredibly wealthy because she was the um words
(39:51):
are not coming to my head CastrattiIs that right? The singer okay that
everybody thought was a bowie Okay,bothered her his child, yes, or
you know what I mean, Yes, he fathered her anyway. Yes,
And somebody suggested her and I waslike, she'd be very good. Yeah,
And I think that's the you know, did we go back to white
Man? Also suggested Nate from TedLasso. Oh wow, Nate Mohammed.
(40:19):
That's interesting. Interesting, so well. And the thing is new show runner
on the Little Cast whoever he orshe? That would be amazing a female
show runner. Yeah. I justdon't know if obviously I mean, wow,
Well, I mean I think thiswill be what do I know?
I don't know anything, but Ithink this will be a break up tradition
because usually it's been sort of theperson who writes a lot of who gets
(40:39):
taken. You know, Moffatt wasall over Russell's, and then Chris was
all over Stevens and then so there'sno person next in line because Chris group
pretty much everything. I mean,he had a lot of good people that
came in. But um, Imean Who. Maybe it's one of them,
but I don't think so necessarily.I think they're all writers and then't
(41:00):
necessarily show runners, which is Ithink, well, you know, again,
I'm talking off top my head,which means I'm probably wrong. Russell
had some experience, Stephen did notthat I know of, Okay, not
that I know of. Feel freeto tell me I'm wrong Internet. Um,
I mean, he'd been writing somuch with but he never had his
own show that I know of him. Again, I could be wrong.
(41:20):
Um, Chris obviously had done shows, and so then it was just sort
of but I don't necessarily know that. Anyone has been writing on thirteen that
has experience with their own show willsay yeah, And so can you bring
in an outsider? Do you bringin your first non doct can you can
you be Can you not be aDoctor Who fan and show run Doctor Who?
(41:44):
No? I don't think so,because I think that to be a
good show runner you have to knowthe history. That's That's all I've got
to say. You know, ithas so much history. You can't just
come in as a blank slate.I think that would be a mistake.
(42:07):
You could do it, but Ithink it would be a mistake. I
think I could do it, butit would be a mistake. Yes,
okay, yeah, yeah yeah,we're still watching, so we're catching it
so indeed. Well that's been ourspeculation hour yep, our gossip time.
But anyway, well until next time, continue all watching all the Doctors many
(42:29):
adventures throughout time and space. Thisis BBC Television.
Welcome to the NERD Party. Welcometo Time and Space, a Doctor Who
(00:34):
podcast. I'm Jessica nine, andI'm her husband and co host Philip Gilphis.
Well, for today's episode, we'regonna be talking about season thirteen,
and then we're gonna be talking aboutseason thirteen. Okay, well that's an
interesting choice. I like it.So we're gonna be talking about season thirteen,
(00:55):
which is the second series starring theFourth Doctor, which took place nineteen
seventy five nineteen seventy six. Andfor our Inside the Tartest Library, we're
gonna be talking about the upcoming seriesthirteen, which will take place prisonably from
twenty twenty one to twenty twenty twoor twenty twenty one to twenty twenty three
(01:15):
or four. Who knows how longit'll last. All right, But as
we said, this is our startingwith the seventies. Season thirteen. Now,
this is our second full season withthe Fourth Doctor, and I feels
like it's a little bit longer.And I mean that in a bad way.
But what do you think about sortof our sophomore effort with the Fourth
Doctor. Yeah, these, Imean we were talking about this earlier.
(01:38):
These sort of blended together a littlebit, and there was one that reminded
me a lot. It's I thinkthis is how I feel about it.
Since they've released the tartesst right fromEarth, the writers have taken every opportunity
to throw in all sorts of randomscientists in space, A lot of scientists
(02:06):
in space, which gives you thechance for creatures, of course, but
I think it does. All therehasn't been like we're not learning about different
civilizations, okay, alien civilizations somuch as we're rescuing all the dumb ass
scientists in space. Colin, Now, we did get a few, not
(02:29):
all, Yes, absolutely, wedid get a few trips home, yes,
and those I enjoyed more. Sorry, well, I was just gonna
say this. In fact, ifI am correct, I mean very may
not be correct, but I believethis may be one of our final units
stories, at least for the Brigadierand Venton and all that we're not going
(02:51):
to see them for an awfully longtime after this. Yeah, that's sad.
So it's it's sort of interesting.But what do you what are you
still thinking of the Fourth Doctor aswe've come to know him now? You
know? Um, Yeah, he'sfine. Again, because we're getting all
these scientists in space, he obviouslyhas a lot more experience with everything out
(03:16):
beyond the Earth, and so hetends to know things but not reveal them
in any way, shape or form. And that happens over and over again,
which again I'm just finding a littlebit repetitive. Like you said,
when they're back on Earth and everybodyis familiar with something, I find that
(03:42):
more interesting than nobody knows anything exceptthe doctor and he's not telling, or
if he does tell, nobody believesthem. And what do you how would
you compare so far the Third andFourth Doctor, Because I feel like when
we watched the Third Doctor, wesort of, I say, gained a
(04:03):
new appreciation. He was sort ofnew to all of us in some ways,
and so we all enjoyed them.But the Fourth Doctor, who again
we somewhat know. But watching thisin order, are you gaining any new
appreciation or do you have a favoriteor I don't think I'm gaining a new
appreciation yet. I'm aware we've gotplenty of time. Yeah we were in
(04:25):
the second of seven seasons. Yeah, we've got time for him to grow
on me. And again, forthe reasons I've stated, he just doesn't
always give information, and yeah,and I'm finding that a little frustrating.
Oh I'm not going to tell younow, but I have a bad feeling
(04:46):
about it. You know, thatseems to happen an awful lot. And
yeah, but I I went intothis thinking I was probably going to quite
enjoy him, So I'm expecting toOkay, I have what I thought you
were going to say, Oh,now I'm disappointed. Yeah, No,
(05:08):
I'm still expecting to have high hopes. I have high hopes. Well,
then, this is the third seasonwith Miss Sarah Jane Smith, whom I
love. Still going on? Whatdo you how do you think? You
know the Third Doctor and her onlyhad one season. Is the second season
with her in the fourth Dard doyou think what of the different dynamics or
(05:28):
do you think there are different dynamics. I do think they're different. But
again, I think it all goesback to exactly the same thing I was
saying. You know, Um,with the Third Doctor, they were on
Earth almost exclusively, and so shecomes in with some knowledge, right,
(05:50):
Um, Whereas with this one,particularly in this season, I don't think
I felt it quite as much lastseason. She has to do a lot
of running and screaming, right,Um, and you know, I'm not
a big fan of that, particularlyfor Sarah Jane, because she's such a
(06:12):
great character. Um, So Idon't think she's had as much opportunity to
to spread those tiny wings and flyaway kind of thing. Well at they
know, not trying to be spoilery, but she only has one season left.
Then I hope that they make gooduse of her. I mean,
(06:34):
this has just been her and theDoctor. So we sort of got rid
of Harry last season. Yes,so that's just the two of them,
and I think I'm not sure necessarilythat they made the right call on that,
again because the doctor's the know itall, and so I think that
(06:59):
having somebody that Sarah could Sarah Gyanecould play against would have been a good
thing. I sort of had therapport with Harry that was sort of you
know, old girl and all thatstuff. Yeah, and sometimes rescuing him.
So we did get a Harry appearance. We'll talk about it, yes,
but yeah, but yeah, andI think that that interplay could have
been quite useful in this season.So well, let's get into the specifics
(07:25):
here, and we won't necessarily goin depth and everything, but just sort
of touching everything here. Um.The first series or the first story,
um was Terror of the Zigons.So this was sort of the first appearance
of the Zigons. Um I believeI say that, I feel like I'm
that's right. But anyway, um, and so you know we sort of
(07:47):
know them from knew who with theDay of the Doctor and all that stuff.
But anyway, um, but whatdid you think of? All right,
we get our scott our Scottish adventureum, and uh, we get
sort of this made up town.We find out eventually that it's made up
town, and we get the Zions. Would you think about with the sort
(08:09):
of fake people, the fake townmembers and all that. Yeah, I
liked this one a lot. Ifound this one quite interesting. Um.
Again you know, going back toit's, at least on the surface,
um, a more homegrown, earthboundstory and so there are some aspects of
(08:37):
familiarity. UM. And yeah,I this is this is one that I
really enjoyed. Actually, that's that'swhat I have to say about that.
Yeah. And we get sort ofyou know, the Brigadier and doctor and
Sarah and Harry, and if Iremember, we sort of get a memory
of recalls this is sort of Harry'sfarewell, which sort of just seems to
(09:00):
be sort of like you have thisbig adventure and it's like, all right,
time to go back to the targets, and he's like, I'm good,
yeah, no thanks, okay,well yeah, you know, sort
of get any goodbye as much aslike okay, well all right, yeah,
off we go and we'll never mentionyou again. Well you'll look at
some moment yea um, but umyeah, let me get the Lotnous Monster
(09:22):
because of course not yeah, ofcourse why not? Um cool? And
then we get Planet of Evil.Um. So we did not do the
synopsis for the Olenless who Planet ofEvil. So I'll say it's very short.
Picking up a distress call from theedge of the known universe, the
Doctor and Sarah Jane by themselves onZetta Minor, where a geological team has
(09:43):
run a foul of some strange goingson. So this is um, I'm
I was gonna say, stereotypical doctorwho you know at this point in our
viewing, it's not necessarily stereotypical,but you sort of get alien planet jungle
planet in this case because you know, there's only like three kinds of planets,
uncle planet, desert planetary exactly.But anyway, um, but I
(10:07):
think this was sort of interesting inthat I always like it sometimes where they
just sort of start with the storylike it's not the Doctor story yet,
they start with whatever's going on,you know, and you get that sort
of feel, and then the doctorappears, you know, maybe after the
title sequence or something, yep,and so you sort of establish what's going
on before getting into it. Andthis is our first one in this season
(10:30):
of scientists mucking up things on otherplanets. Yes, yeah, which we
got several of last season as well, but it kind of reminds me of
now, I'm forgetting the name ofit, the Doctor Who's Special Mission to
the Unknown, the one without theDoctor, the one that they redid the
College students redid, whereas with theDaleks, but you know, because it
was the one without the doctor wherethey just it's kind of was the same
(10:54):
thing. These two people are,you know, scientists or colonists or researchers.
And then it was like the monsteror something, and then the dogs
end up coming up because I thought, if they're controlling the monster's been a
second. But anyway, kind ofthe same thing, or they're just sort
of killing off one by one byone and there's the last guy left at
the end and then the dogs justget them. But kind of the same
thing. Yeah, And it remindsme of the one where it was like
(11:20):
the monster was just a guy coveredin netting. Right, there's a few
of them to be sure. Yeah, yeah, but it was another jungle
planet kind of idea. But yeah, yeah, they do sort of.
It's a lot of don't get mewrong, it's a lot of set to
do to credit y. Yeah,absolutely, and so you think they just
(11:43):
got it handy, And I thinkmy issue with them is that it ends
up being a lot of scientific jargonthat we're not expected to understand, like
even scientists couldn't because it's obviously sciencefi science jargon or even fantasies because I
(12:03):
don't know, like a Star Trek, it's like theoretically it's made up and
could be real, even though Imean we're making it up enough that it
sounds real, whereas this is justlike the flippity floppity flippy Yes, yeah,
yeah, our techno babble sounds realityand there sounds a little bit like
ts Eliott, do you think um, But there's so much of it,
(12:28):
that's so much of the story thatI lose interest. Um, whereas it
you know, if there's a littlebit of science mumbo jung jumbo that advances
the plot, I can sort oflet it wash over me and and move
on. But this is all aboutYeah. This one's sort of like there's
(12:50):
the antimatter universe, um elasticity yeah, yeah, and then the electric Boogaloo
monster. Yeah. And now you'rein coffins and we're going to chuck you
out into space. So if it'slike I said, it wasn't boring or
it were bad, but regular year, it's a regular So the next one
(13:16):
up is Pyramids of Mars, Soyou're gonna read that little I do in
a Victorian Gothic mansion, Strange thingsare afoot. The master of the house
away in Egypt has been replaced bya sinister Egyptian. Cloth wrapped mummies roam
the grounds, killing people. Beneatha pyramid. The last of the Sirens
(13:37):
sue Tech the Destroyer waits to befreed to it long last bring his gift
of death to all live. SoI feel like this is one of those
Fourth Doctor stories. That sort oflike if you know, you read like
one of the top ten, thisis on the list. Yeah, I
(13:58):
can see that because it's sort oflike Doctor Who has a Murder Mystery?
Um, and I quite like that. And again I liked the humanity.
You know, you've got the Masterof the House's brother, right, who
is? Who is? Because theEgyptian, the sinister Egyptian, looks like
(14:22):
the Master of the House, andso the brother is desperate to save him,
and so there's this humanity field doctorslike he's already dead, don't even
try it. Yeah, yes,yes, that was Those were excellent,
excellent impressions, by the way,baby. Um so yeah, I quite
quite liked this one. And Ithink it helps to sort of have almost
(14:46):
different jumping off points because I likethat sort of you had the background of
like, you know, Sarah Jane, you know, because I think it's
always the joke, you know,Sarah Jane walks out of the tartist and
some wardrobe expecting to be in someplace else, you know, the sort
of a long over the franchise ofDoctor Hill. I was going to say,
that's a running joke for all companions. Yeah, and but anyway,
(15:07):
they're supposed to be Unit technically arewhere Unit is just in the wrong time,
and it's like where Unit is,but before Unit, the building was
here. So it's this castle orhouse or mansion or whatever the heck manor
darling manner, yes, um andso, but so you start in the
manner, but then you also havethe village or wherever um and then you
(15:28):
sort of then you go across timyspacey to where suit Tech is, and
so you just create all those differentscenes and you have sort of the you
know, the warping tomb or thesarcophagus sarcophagus, Yeah, and the sneaky
bookcase that turns into a door inTrent's you know that, Yeah, doctor
(15:48):
who made some murder mystery. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, I did
like this one, of course.I think, um a joke is sort
of like suit Tech seems to beable to get all like for some one
who's stuck. He's able to likethrow stuff into the other dimension, like
can you just throw himself? Butit's also interesting to sort of meet sort
of this big, big villain,I mean, like it's it's you know,
(16:11):
often in these stories the doctor isfacing honestly small villains or you know,
ones he could probably take, butthis is sort of like a super
being and so this one he sortof I really had to you know,
work for it. Yeah yeah,cool. Well, next is the brain
(16:32):
of Morbius. So mad scientists HendrySolon is building a body from spare parts
to house the disembodied brain of theevil Time Lord Morbius. He fancies the
Doctor's head is the final piece.This was Doctor who meets Frankenstein. Yes,
yes, obviously, Um, thisis one this particular because you know
(17:00):
how many Evil Time Lords are wanderingaround because there's the Ohmga right right.
I mean he's sort of king ofthe Evil Time Lords, but yet oh
he's the king of the Evil timeld. I feel like this is yeah,
more of his this regular evil TimeLords. Right, oh okay, but
we never get to know like whyhe's evil, and I'm sad about that.
That's true. Maybe they mentioned it, but yeah, they didn't really
(17:21):
get into it, and I sortof feel like, you know, otherwise
you just have a two dimensional villainand that's never quite as much fun.
Um. This is where we doget to see the Sisters of Carn.
Thank you, Sisters of Carn,which I thought was interesting, I think,
especially well for us. I won'tspeak for you, but for me,
(17:45):
because we're not that I'm not thatfamiliar with them. I mean,
honestly, the Eighth Doctor mini episodeduring the fiftieth was kind of the first
time I saw them. Um.And so it's interesting to then go back
to the origins here, yes,and see how it all comes And because
the I don't know the Sisters withthe main character of the Sisters of Carn,
(18:10):
that's sort of a new who becauseshe kind of pops up again with
the Twelfth Doctor a little bit.Um. I mean that was sort of
interesting. But yeah, I justthink it's it's nice to see where it'
and you're like, oh, yeah, there obviously they are following what they
did, you know, the EternalFlame and internal life. Yeah. Yeah.
And he's like, um, youjust need a match yo, clean
up whatever. Yeah, I getthe soot out of the flu. I
(18:33):
think it's how these things work,um. Yeah. And so this was
sort of fighting against the Sisters ofCarn a little bit. This was fighting
against the Doctor Frankenstein and then fightingagainst Morbius. Um. But I didn't
(18:55):
it wasn't too terribly confusing. NowI think the only thing that he just
got all going back and forth somuch. Yes, I feel like they
didn't need to twist well because youknow, as many antagonists as you say
that there are, you know,which is fine. You know the Carns
is his car and capture and thenuh you know, Salons capturing him and
(19:18):
then at the end more but thenI don't know for like more of this
kind of like doesn't really get hisdu as he could have. I mean,
he just turns into lizard bug,Frankenstein monsters. Yeah, I mean
literally Frankenstein's monster. But at theend of Frankstein it's not very interesting.
I was just push him over clipor something like. It wasn't Yeah,
the biggest thing, Yeah, hugething. Yeah, And I I mean
(19:44):
I get what they're doing, butI don't know what the um and I
don't even forget his name, whatthe assistant really brings to the table.
Yeah, I don't. I don'tknow. I get what they're doing,
but it's yeah, I mean,if he had turned out to be the
big hero or something, maybe,but he doesn't really um yeah, I
(20:07):
don't know, just a big galutYeah, yeah, I don't know.
And look, I get to thesavenues. So it can't be like in
twenty twenty one that's so tired.It was it was new then, you
know. Yeah, so but it'sjust like the not very smart person we've
sort of seen, and you know, we don't want to make fun of
the people. Um he took thebloody guy's bloody arms sake, um and
(20:33):
put it on the monster. Yeah. And uh yeah, it would like
it would just be interesting. LikeI'm thinking back to and again not this
is original, but I'm thinking backto the third Doctor story which I'm blanking.
I think it was was the laststory Planets the Spiders. But anyway,
because you had the Algernon guy,you know where not very smart guy
(20:57):
that was in the house where allthe men, uh yeah, and he's
you know, he's he's an interest. I mean they use them fairly correctly.
Um. I want to say hewas called Tom. Yeah. But
then he sort of gets the powerof whatever and you know, suddenly becomes
(21:17):
which I'm not saying you have tochange the character to make him better,
but you know, you know,just having the not you know, the
slow character, right, it isgoing to have something there to make some
sweetness and not just be like,uh, he's slow. Yeah, I
mean he does give doesn't he giveSarah Jane something that ultimately turns out to
side the day? Yeah, becauseI think it's the crystal. Yeah.
(21:41):
Yeah, but you're not wrong.That was sort of an algernon. Yeah,
so maybe they're just maybe these guysare just going to the library.
Are you saying writers are not original? That's the isn't that? The idea
is that there are only seven originalideas and everything else is just a boot.
Yeah. I mean that's what Shakespearedid, so you know, oh
(22:02):
god, yeah, went to thebookstore. I can make this? Do
I know anybody who speaks Italian?Um? So? Yeah? I mean
this one was was all right aswell. I think it could have just
been polished a little bit more,just to give it some with all these
characters, but then they don't necessarilymake it a little more oomthy. Yeah,
(22:26):
and possibly could have been used alittle bit more pacing. Exactly when
you have that many you know,when you have you know, we'll obviously
always complaining classic woh, it's soslow and there's but like when you have
this many characters, you can dosomething that you got the time learn a
little bit more about the sisters.I mean, yes, the again I
(22:48):
can't remembering the characters down, butlike the assistant sister of the carn you
know, the second in command.She just gets like, maybe we should
try new things. No, andthis just gets like stopped by more orbs
and that's the end of her.I'm like, oh god, that was
quite the end for her. Yeah, and then we get the Seeds of
(23:10):
Doom. Here we go. Whenscientists in the Antarctic uncover a mysterious seed
pod, the doctor is called into investigate. He soon realizes it is
an extraterrestrial and extremely dangerous. Atthe same time, however, ruthless millionaire
(23:30):
plant lover Harrison Chase has learned ofthe find and decides he must have the
pod for his collection of rare andbeautiful flora. Meanwhile, the pod itself
harbors intelligent life with sinister plans ofits own. Now, this one was
(23:52):
unusual for this season. It wasa six partner as opposed to the four
partner we usually go for. UM. So, I don't know, did
it seem I mean, it seemslong. It did seem I mean,
but did you seem long in abad way? Um? Again, this
was a little bit scientists messing withthings that they don't need to be messing
(24:15):
with. Um, although I sortof wanted it to go and you know,
maybe it was not a thing thatwas people were aware of in the
seventies, but you know, there'sthe idea that global warming is causing so
much in Antarctica and other ice capsand things to melt that it ultimately is
(24:40):
releasing diseases that have been frozen anderadicated through the freezing, and so we're
going to have more of a problemwith diseases that we aren't expecting to show
up showing up. Um, Andthat would have been an interesting direction for
(25:03):
this to go in that that wassort of how this felt like it started.
Um. Yeah, this was scientistsrun a muck plus a little bit
of Benny Hill. Well you hadto be well, I mean, and
again this isn't a complaint. Itjust sort of seemed like it was two
(25:26):
put into one, which is finebecause he sort of had the Antarctic part.
Whichever. Get how many parts ittook, I'll say like three parts.
I don't know if that's right,but you know that I counted it
was forty eight of the parts andthen that sort of blew up at the
end and they're like, okay,and then we're for the rest of the
parts, we're gonna be over hereat the manner of the crazy guy,
the crazy the millionaire plant lover,right, darling. And then I think
(25:48):
sort of I don't want to callhim comic relief, but he almost is
that way if you're in a certainmood. His head thug, yeah,
the bad guys, And you're right, it does feel quite disjointed. I
mean that definitely kills people, butlike, you know, he's like,
huh, this guy. Yeah,and then you've got the artist woman.
(26:11):
Oh yes, that was a sortof a random storyline, yep. But
I mean it's not in a badway necessarily. It was just at this
is where you get sort of thebinny hill. You know, it's not
enough that we have this random extraterrestrialplant that's trying to kill us and take
over everything. We also have todeal with the zany millionaire plant lover who
(26:37):
keeps trying to steal it. Andso then the zany artist has to go
in quote unquote undercover to try andthwart those play You know, we got
we got a lot of big fishto fry. You know that plant thing
keeps growing and growing and great,can we stay focused? M leave it
(27:00):
alone? Stop that um. Butyeah, I think with this one where
where I were I to cut itum or prune it if you will.
Don't stop that baby, that's ugly. Don't do that. The Sarah Jane
and the doctor running around the mannergetting caught and then escaping, and then
running around the manor and then gettingcaught on the ground, so the manner,
(27:23):
you know, and then the gettinguh so you Benny Hill, and
then getting multiple times to get fedinto the plant grinder. Yeah, multi
yeah, the multchmaker grinder grinder grinder, not dissimilar to the coffins they were
in at the beginning of this season, as also not dissimilar to the Hush,
(27:48):
Whoosh, Edgar Allen, what's theone the edgrolland post yeah hit in
the pendulum. Yeah, but likeit seems to me, I mean,
I don't know, sometimes sort oflike kill people without us statting an eye,
Like I'm pretty sure you know,a guy just gets fed into the
compost thing, and like what dowe just kill a guy? Okay,
well, okay, these things happenedby me. I was like, that's
(28:11):
that kind of got because I feltlike, this must be very clean what
it does, because I figured thatwould have been like covered in blood by
the time we next saw it,excell us. But anyway, the housekeeper
comes in and cleans it well,because you know this is it's the sister
of the big thug guy. Idon't I don't know when. Um what's
her face? Um, the womanwho's going to complain about violence? All
(28:33):
right, yes, um, likethis is what I've kind of like.
I mean I don't know, yeah, because like I either guy clearly got
killed. I don't know if Iwant kids to be watching. I mean,
you know, you know, I'mnot trying to be a fruit bit
of like, well, maybe they'lllearn not to get too close to the
composting, to the giant steel compostthing that you've got in the laundry room,
I guess. Um. But yeah, yeah, so but yeah,
(28:56):
this I thought it was again.I mean, if you could cut a
little bit, it was. Itwas good. Obviously we're still playing with
our color separation overlay. Yes,yeah, big old plants monsters, So
yeah, it was good. Itwas good. So yeah, that was
more or less series thirteen of theFourth Doctor, and so next is season
(29:22):
fourteen, and I because that's theway numbers are, it is true,
And I got the Blue ray.It's already over there. So um,
whenever we get the chance to startit, whenever that may be. We
got a lot going on here.We got the mask of Mandragora, than
the hand of Figure, than theDeadly Assassin, the face of Evil,
(29:45):
the talons of Wan Chiang. Yes, and then that's the robots of debt.
There's there's a lot of nails inthere, and you will get introduced
to the next companion. Who isit? La yep M So we we'll
find out, all right. Well, with that, let's go into the
(30:06):
Tartest Library. Who wh wh whwhosh when you close your eyes, I
go to the library, the librarynow and as we go to the series
thirteen of New Who, which Iknow it's not very new at this point
because it's been thirteen seasons. Yeah. Um. Also, all we're doing
in the Tartest Library right now isgossiping, and I'm exactly excited. So
(30:30):
no news for anyone who's been keepingup, of course, that it has
been announced that with this upcoming seasonsometime this year at the beginning, we
will say goodbye to the thirteenth Doctor, which we all kind of assumed for
three years now. Yeah, butwe did not necessarily know that we'd be
saying goodbye to the showrunner. That'strue, Chris channel Willie at the end
(30:52):
of the series. Um. Sortof the details we've gotten is that they're
going to be six episodes. Anothershorten it and it's i've heard it gonna
be one big story. Okay,that's one over art, yes, And
in addition to that, then therewill be three specials in twenty twenty two,
um, which i've they've probably saidwhen it is, I just can't
(31:15):
remember. So it's probably gonna belike, you know, New Year's some
time in the spring. And thenI don't think it's going to be a
Christmas special. I think it's somesort of BBC anniversary, which it's gonna
be September or some non holiday time. Yeah. Well, and Chipnill is
defiantly refusing to do Christmas specials,that's true. Um, so that's not
(31:37):
necessarily surprising. During that childhood,who was the show runner for Eccleston Russell.
It was Russell. So it's soall we've had our Russell and Stephen
Moffatt and now Chris Chipnell. Sothis is a really pretty short one doctor
show run yeah, where everyone elsegot two. Yeah. No, I
(32:01):
mean you could say Russell course justdid one year with Chris so right,
but still yeah, um yeah,bit of a bit of a short short
run. And I'm okay with it. That's fine, it'll be it'll be
(32:21):
all right. Um. Yeah,I just don't feel like ultimately Chibnal settled
in. I think that he doessome things brilliantly for other show broad Church,
loved it, loved it. Hejust Torchwood was different and there's a
(32:43):
certain part and I like that.Yeah. I liked torch from the de
facto show runner for torch Yeah,and I liked Torchwood a lot. Um,
it just hasn't Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't know why
threaded that. Sometimes that's just theway it happens. Thing you think you're
going to be best at. Soyou're saying I shouldn't sure run a Star
(33:06):
Trek series, Well, I don'tknow. I'm saying that I tried to
save an outdoor theater that I wantedto save since I was thirteen, and
I failed, and somebody else hascome along and is doing a better job
of it. And as much asit breaks my heart that I couldn't do
it, I'm happy it's happening,and so hopefully Chris Chipnell feels the same
way. Yeah, and so we'reall of course, we'll get our new
(33:28):
companion for this final season. Yes, I'm ready forgotten his name and the
actor's name. Honestly, I can'tremember. I'm not looking at it.
No Bishop, John Bishop. Thereyou go. So I forget the character's
name. I don't know that I'veever known it. So so we'll see
and then yeahs and John Bishop yep. And then they've introduced I don't know
(33:52):
if it's necessarily the bad guy,but they've I didn't know, of course.
Well I thought I would know Britishactors, but they've introduced him.
I'm as well. Yes, soat least a person of interest, whether
that's the villain or not. POII guess, so yeah, so what
I mean, I don't know.I'm sure our expectations are low, but
(34:12):
they are they are, although I'mhoping to get more clarity with the tardist
being less crowded. And again,of course, only less crowded by one.
Um, you know, which isagain not just I loved all three
of the companions and all three ofthe actors who played them, but because
(34:37):
there were so many, there wasn'ta chance to really properly explore. And
so perhaps we'll get that. Ireally hope we get it with yeas well,
or not we get it with JohnBishop. I'm sort of indifferent,
But again I felt that way aboutGraham. So I don't know. Now,
I guess, I mean, Iguess I'm gonna That's what I'm emphasizing,
So I would assume we're not gonnahave any more you know, if
(35:00):
there's gonna be different show runner,presumably they're not going to carry over anyone.
Yeah, that's usually an all change. I mean, that wasn't always
true in classic who times. Necessarilyyou're right, but um, you know,
presumably this is the last season forJazz as well and Josh. Yeah,
he made there will be great andwonderful, just like Bill was in
(35:21):
the last season of twelve. Bill. Yeah, but uh, you know,
it would be great together Bill andYazz. There you go, that
would be a fun combo and theTartis and uh so, how do we
feel about learning to say goodbye tothirteen? Yeah, I don't know.
(35:44):
I don't know. Yeah, alot, a lot can happen, It
really really can. I was notparticularly crazy about Peter Capaldi until his last
season, and then I was reallysad to see him go because I don't
think again, not nothing against himat all. I don't feel like I
(36:05):
didn't like him and Clara together,and again, I love Clara with Matt
Smith. None of it, youknow, it's just about the chemistry.
I'm not trying to disparage anybody.But then you put Peter Capaldi in with
Bill Potts and Nordal and it wasjust great, and I thoroughly enjoyed that
last season, and then I wasreally sad to see Peter Capaldi go.
(36:28):
So yeah, I don't necessarily havehigh expectations, but I'm up for anything.
And while I'm saying right now,I'm sad to see Jody go,
mostly because I don't feel like shegot her just desserts. Yeah, it's
(36:49):
it's because I felt like at theend of twelve, this is my opinion,
you know, the gruff doctor andthe one who you didn't like and
he didn't like you but at theend you did sort of learned to really
like him, and he had thisyou know, the very sort of like
you said with Bill and then withthe relationship with Missy that was sort of
(37:10):
very tender and and you sort ofshowed this other side even with him and
Nard all sort of had this sortof sweet relationship. You know, they
pretend to hate each other, butoh they were reful and so you know
when he said goodbye, you know, to be kind and all that about
thirteen, like I she's just nothingagainst Joey. Of course, she's just
(37:30):
one note. I don't know ifthat we've Yeah, I was gonna say
yeah when you say with the lastseason of twelve, you got to see
a different side of him, ButI'm not sure we've seen a side of
the thirteenth doctor Um because because she'shad stuff where she could have had sides.
I mean, I'm not to retreadold Brown, but you know when
(37:53):
even in her previous season, youknow, when you had the Master and
you had the fault Alafrey, butthen she's just quiet about it, and
I was like, yeah, okay, yeah, And again, the combination
of Jody Whittaker and Chris Chipmill shouldhave been magical. They were, you
(38:13):
know, they both were involved withsome broad Church thank you, I'm going
off, and so it should havebeen and it wasn't, And I'm sad
about it because again, I thinkso much of both of them, more
I think more of Jody than Ido with Chris Chipmill. To be honest,
(38:36):
yeah, I'm sad she didn't gether chance. I don't know,
Maybe maybe she'll just show us awhole on these nine stories that are left.
Well, you say nine if youassume that the specials are about an
hour and a half. You assumethat the specials are about an hour and
a half age, so then that'slike four and a half. So it's
like ten and a half, notnine. So it'll be fine. It'll
(39:00):
be fine. Do we want toengage in the who will be the Next
Doctor? No? Not yet.Um. I did say something on Twitter
where somebody suggested, um, Ithink she's been on there before. I'm
trying to think what else she's beenin. She was in UM with David
(39:23):
Tennant. Uh, sexy guy,sexy guy, sexy. Yes, she
she was the UM crazy girl andCass and I've okay, who ends up
like running a club or something beingincredibly wealthy because she was the um words
(39:51):
are not coming to my head CastrattiIs that right? The singer okay that
everybody thought was a bowie Okay,bothered her his child, yes, or
you know what I mean, Yes, he fathered her anyway. Yes,
And somebody suggested her and I waslike, she'd be very good. Yeah,
And I think that's the you know, did we go back to white
Man? Also suggested Nate from TedLasso. Oh wow, Nate Mohammed.
(40:19):
That's interesting. Interesting, so well. And the thing is new show runner
on the Little Cast whoever he orshe? That would be amazing a female
show runner. Yeah. I justdon't know if obviously I mean, wow,
Well, I mean I think thiswill be what do I know?
I don't know anything, but Ithink this will be a break up tradition
because usually it's been sort of theperson who writes a lot of who gets
(40:39):
taken. You know, Moffatt wasall over Russell's, and then Chris was
all over Stevens and then so there'sno person next in line because Chris group
pretty much everything. I mean,he had a lot of good people that
came in. But um, Imean Who. Maybe it's one of them,
but I don't think so necessarily.I think they're all writers and then't
(41:00):
necessarily show runners, which is Ithink, well, you know, again,
I'm talking off top my head,which means I'm probably wrong. Russell
had some experience, Stephen did notthat I know of, Okay, not
that I know of. Feel freeto tell me I'm wrong Internet. Um,
I mean, he'd been writing somuch with but he never had his
own show that I know of him. Again, I could be wrong.
(41:20):
Um, Chris obviously had done shows, and so then it was just sort
of but I don't necessarily know that. Anyone has been writing on thirteen that
has experience with their own show willsay yeah, And so can you bring
in an outsider? Do you bringin your first non doct can you can
you be Can you not be aDoctor Who fan and show run Doctor Who?
(41:44):
No? I don't think so,because I think that to be a
good show runner you have to knowthe history. That's That's all I've got
to say. You know, ithas so much history. You can't just
come in as a blank slate.I think that would be a mistake.
(42:07):
You could do it, but Ithink it would be a mistake. I
think I could do it, butit would be a mistake. Yes,
okay, yeah, yeah yeah,we're still watching, so we're catching it
so indeed. Well that's been ourspeculation hour yep, our gossip time.
But anyway, well until next time, continue all watching all the Doctors many
(42:29):
adventures throughout time and space. Thisis BBC Television.
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